Solar-Powered Cars Race fron Austin to Calgary

dblizzard writes "The North American Solar Challenge race is about to start. Travelling at speeds of up to 130km/hr (80mph), these teams will race from Austin Texas to Calgary Alberta all with no non-reusable energy. Here's the race link, and here's some really cool photos of the Queens' University car."

Comments

Irony

[Ron Harwood]

Are the start and destination supposed to be ironic (oil vs solar power)?

Re:Irony

[Dominatus]

How in god's name is it ironic?

Re:Irony

[Black Cardinal]

Texas and Alberta are both big oil-producing regions.

Re:Irony

[Ron Harwood]

Perhaps your understanding of irony is flawed due to excessive Alanis Morissette listening.

Irony ...

Re:Irony

[tricops]

What does solar have to do with the destination? Alberta is known for oil and gas, and some wind turbines as well in some select areas... As a resident of Calgary, I haven't a clue what you're on about.

That aside, I really wish the link hadn't died within the first minute... it would be interesting to see when/where they're coming in so I could have a looksee.

Re:Irony

[Dominatus]

Ummm, actually I believe *you* used it incorrectly

Irony means, as from the link you showed me, the opposite of what is to be expected, or in their words

#

1. The use of words to express something different from and often opposite to their literal meaning.
2. An expression or utterance marked by a deliberate contrast between apparent and intended meaning.
3. A literary style employing such contrasts for humorous or rhetorical effect. See Synonyms at wit1.

#

1. Incongruity between what might be expected and what actually occurs: "Hyde noted the irony of Ireland's copying the nation she most hated" (Richard Kain).
2. An occurrence, result, or circumstance notable for such incongruity. See Usage Note at ironic.

Re:Irony

[Dominatus]

I apologize, I thought you were implying it was ironic because "wow?! what are the chances" but after further reading your comment I see now what you meant. Im sorry.

Re:Irony

[phasm42]

I think this is the first time I've seen someone sincerely apologize for a misunderstanding on Slashdot.

Re:Irony

[wankledot]

That's the point. They are traveling between two oil towns. It would be like staging an anti-nuke march between 3 mile island and chernobyl. (obviously not possible, but you get the idea.) Or having a defense-of-marriage march through the middle of the Castro district.

Re:Irony

[gonk]

A little FYI. Austin Energy leads the nation in green power. From www.austinenergy.com:

"GreenChoice is the most successful utility-sponsored green power program in the nation with 383 million kWh in subscriptions at the end of 2004."

robert
(yes, I'm a GreenChoice household)

Re:Irony

[flithm]

Also as a resident of Calgary, I would like to say that most of us here actually understand irony.

Come on tricops you're giving us a bad name! At least wait for the people from Austin to say something stupid before starting up.

Re:Irony

[dubiousdave]

Perhaps it's a clever new form of flamebait?

Re:Irony

[LiquidCoooled]

It may only be the first time it has come from a first post, but it happens often enough deep down in the threads.
More often however its 2 or 3 days after the article hit the front page, so the chances of seeing it are low :)

Re:Irony

[beasstman]

Enmax (the major power supplier for Calgary) also has a fairly serious program to promote alternate energy. As one poster pointed out, they have a number of windmills, and claim the local light rail runs on power from it. (I find it hard to believe they actually have the power seperated out in a special grid, I suspect they just produce *enough* power from wind to run the trains, but the marketing imagery is clever anyway)

Users can also sign up to help pay for wind generation by paying a bit more for electricity.

Yep, when I lived there I was a GreenMax member.

That said, I do love the choice of Austin to Calgary for a solar race. Very appropriate...

Re:Irony

[TykeClone]

Users can also sign up to help pay for wind generation by paying a bit more for electricity.

Apoligies in advance since I'm not sure how it works in Canada, but...

You sign up to pay extra for wind turbine electricity to the power company who is getting subsidized to build and use the wind turbines in the first place? Sounds like the power company is laughing all the way to the bank with that.

Re:Irony

[Anonymous Coward]

Austin is certainly not an 'oil town.' Try somewhere on the coast, like Houston.

Re:Irony

[Anonymous Coward]

don't let your ignornance show too badly!
Calgary and Alberta are a hub of the Candadian oil business. Canada hold the 2nd largest oil reserve in the world, 2nd only to the Middle East. Much of it is however tied up in the tar sands, making it more expensive to extract... but with a 62$ barrel...
I'm waiting for moron Bush to send his illiterate teenage troops to invade any day now!

Re:Irony

[Doc Ruby]

Yes, between the subsidies and the higher rates, wind is already preferred by many customers because they know it's lowering their costs of living, like the Greenhouse and other pollution. Even before everyone else is forced on board by $100:bl oil. Which makes it actually possible that the power company will be able to transition more people to wind when they must, because it'll already be up, running and proven.

No need to thank us for dragging along all the people burning up the planet as we do something to save our collective ass. We have to do that, or we probably wouldn't.

Re:Irony

[TykeClone]

Voting with your dollars - no problem here.

We've got a similar program where I live in Iowa with Alliant Energy, but I'm not taking part. The wind turbines are going up all over the place with or without my acceptance of higher rates. I'm not convinced that this is anything more than a marketing ploy that gives the utility the ability to bill a higher rate to the consumer. Heck, most businesses wish they could do that :)

As far as wind power goes, I'm all for it. Northern Iowa bristles with some very good sized wind farms that do a good job producing energy for about 10 months out of the year (our problem is "august" - the wind just doesn't blow in august)

Re:Irony

[tricops]

Yeah, I understand irony perfectly well and I wasn't disputing that, I just misread what he was saying. The way his comment is worded made it sound like he was referring to Alberta/Calgary as some sort of solar area which doesn't make sense. As usual, I realized the way he meant it shortly after posting and felt like an idiot. :)

Re:Irony

[ipfwadm]

Well, from the definitions you cited:

Incongruity between what might be expected and what actually occurs

Sounds a lot like what the O.P. was stating. One might expect that a solar-powered vehicle race would NOT both begin and end in a big oil-producing region, when in actuality that's what's happening. Sounds to me a whole lot like incongruity between expected and actual results to me, and hence irony.

Re:Irony

[Gordonjcp]

One might expect that a solar-powered vehicle race would NOT both begin and end in a big oil-producing region, when in actuality that's what's happening.

Actually, I can't think of a better place to start and end the race... "Haha, watch this you lot, you're *screwed* now!"

Re:Irony

[Cat_Byte]

Texas is a reserve. Not very many oil wells pumping here at all. Austin is where 99% of the liberals in TX migrate to so it's pretty much left-wing central for the state. Lots of things like this go on in Austin for cleaner environments, etc. Too bad they won't let them build more than 3 major roads due to killing lizards or owls or something though. All these cleaner burning cars are just going to sit still in traffic with the rest of us ;)

Re:Irony

[Cat_Byte]

I quit apologizing because it always ended up -1 off topic anyway. For instance, I apoligize for this off-topic reply to a specific topic. Mod away.

Re:Irony

[inkydoo]

Beyond the feel-good value of the program, there is another benefit to me. My rate is locked in because it's coming from sources (solar and wind mostly) with limited price fluctuation (because the cost has already been paid and maintenance costs are well known). Austin Energy customers not on the GreenChoice program will be affected by market changes in their sources of fuel (gas, coal, etc.). At this point I'm not laughing my way to the bank, but I feel confident that day's not terribly far off.

Re:Irony

[inkydoo]

Austin Energy also has extensive rebate offers on everything from low-flow toilets to solar panel (PV) installations on homes and businesses. I don't think they're doing it out of the kindness of their hearts, but if they've found a way to make some green by supporting green, more power (huh huh, get it?) to them.

Re:Irony

[TykeClone]

How ironclad is the lock-in? And is utility power deregulated in your area?

Like I said, in Iowa power prices are regulated and (in my case) Alliant Energy must go begging to the utility commission to raise rates (of course, they've never been turned down on that either) - but rates don't fluctuate based upon the spot cost of fuel.

Re:Irony

[avronius]

Wind / Solar / alternate power sources may never fully replace more traditional sources of power, but they can sure augment the hell out of them.

If I can power my house for between 9 and 11 months of the year on wind, while only relying on the more conventional power sources for the remaining 1-3 months, the environment will thank me for it. Even if nobody else does ;)

- Yet another Calgarian swayed by the wind...

WTF?

[Quasar1999]

Non-reusable energy? Energy cannot be created or destroyed, it simply is transferred around. What does non-reusable mean exactly? Do they mean non-renewable?

Re:WTF?

[Shkuey]

In this house we obey the laws of thermodynamics!

Re:WTF?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm pretty sure that the funniest thing about this topic is the fact that the headline is mispelled...

Re:WTF?

[Anonymous Coward]

Solar energy is NOT a "renewable" resource. According to peer-reviewed articles, we may reach 'Peak Solar' in as little as two billion years.

We have got along so far only by squandering the material and energy resources accumulated during the formation of the solar system. But we are using them at an ever-increasing rate. And when they're gone, they're gone.

Isn't it time that we cleaned up our act and resolved to leave the solar system as we found it?

Do it for the children.

Re:WTF?

[freakcgi]

And what is with "no non-reusable", couldnt u just say "reusable"

Re:WTF?

[_merlin]

Solar power isn't renewable. The sun will run out of power eventually. It'll take a few billion years, but it will happen.

Re:WTF?

[Da Fokka]

Solar power isn't renewable. The sun will run out of power eventually. It'll take a few billion years, but it will happen.

So for us mere humans, with a mere lifespan of 1/10 millionth of the sun, you could kinda say that is pretty damn near inexhaustable.

Re:WTF?

[orzetto]

<Thermodynamics nazism>

Energy is divided in two parts, exergy and anergy. Their sum (i.e. energy) is constant, as the first law of thermodynamics goes.

Exergy is the part that you can convert in any form you like. Heat at ambient temperature is 100% anergy, since it's at equilibrium with its surroundings (yet it does contain energy, because those molecules are indeed moving around). Electricity is about 100% exergy, since it can be transformed in pretty much anything. Sunrays are in equilibrium with the sun's surface, about 5000 kelvin; therefore, they are about 1-300/5000=94% exergy. Heat used in cars, coal plants and gas turbines is exergy to various degrees depending on the combustion temperature.

As there is no such thing as a free lunch in thermodynamics, exergy is destroyed and corresponding anergy generated in any (real) process. Destroyed exergy is equal (ideally) or larger (in practice) than the energy you actually use.

So, all energy is non-reusable, because if you use it, you corrupt it to anergy, and you can't use it again; mathematically and physically it's still there, but not in a useful form: you can't use the same sunray twice. That's why quite some time ago someone came up with the word renewable, meaning that you are quite safe if you count on the sun delivering sunrays forever (at least on human scale).

Reusable solar energy!

[Anonymous Coward]

Great, so now I can use the same bit of sunlight over and over until I have enough power stored up to finally take over the world!

Uhm

[Andrew Tanenbaum]

Solar isn't reusable. There's just a lot of it.

Re:Uhm

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, technically, the sun uses it first, then we get to use it. :)

Re:Uhm

[Peldor]

It's going to run out eventually just like oil. We need to start weening ourselves off of this solar dependency right now!

Race the Sun was it called?

[JossiRossi]

Wasn't Halley Berry in this movie? I hope she wins! I have the faith! Hollywood always makes the end a surprise!

Re:Race the Sun was it called?

[pegasustonans]

That was in the World Solar Challenge down in Australia.

Double Negative Confusion!

[mpapet]

I read they summary as "allowed to use non-reusable" at first.

I don't like no double-negatives.

Ain't got no double negatives!

[pestie]

with no non-reusable energy.

And apparently without no double negatives, too!

Non-reusable energy

[Anonymous Coward]

Now that's some trick! They must have some mojo rejigger the entropy of the system to prevent reuse of the cast off heat.

Non-reusable?

[Anonymous Coward]

Perhaps instead, "non-renewable"?

Reusable energy sounds like a perpetual motion machine to me.

Re:Non-reusable?

[ray-auch]

But how is solar energy "renewable" ? Where exactly we going to get another sun from when this one runs out ?

Solar is no more renewable than oil - there is just more of it and it is going to last longer, so we think there's more than we'll ever need.

Probably at one time people thought that about oil too.

Re:Non-reusable?

[sapgau]

*sigh*
Well in order to fit such grandiose statement then the article is not misspelled.

Re:Non-reusable?

[itsmekirby]

The difference between solar and oil, is that there truly is more solar than we'll ever need. By the time solar energy runs out, the earth will either by engulfed in flames, or plunged into a permanent freeze (not sure which, I think both). By that point, the human race won't have much more use for solar energy on earth, because hopefully we would have other places to go. But you are correct in saying that technically solar energy is not renewable.

Re:Non-reusable?

[Anonymous Coward]

That's not true. At some point, the entire surface of the earth will have to be covered by solar panals, and at that moment, we will have run out of solar power (except maybe a dyson's sphere, but the arguement still stands, we "could" run out

Re:Non-reusable?

[Anonymous Coward]

Not having sufficient generating capacity != running out.
Interesting point all the same. But we have a LOT of desert to pave with panels.

Re:Non-reusable?

[Albinoman]

But when the sun goes, we do too. Besides, oil is renewable. All you have to do is wait a couple hundred million years so Earth can grab a refill.

Slow northerly journey!

[Anonymous Coward]

According to my atlas, it's all UP to get there!

Non-reusable energy?

[going_the_2Rpi_way]

Once the energy goes to heat (friction, etc) isn't it effectively non-reusable? Unless they're collecting it for steam turbines or something....

Speeds up 80 clicks?

[lheal]

Why don't they just use the sunlight as direct propulsion? Then they'd go really fast.

There's probably some reason they don't. Those people are really smart.

Are there rules against travelling at close to light speed in these races? Oh, I see, they go throught towns. That must be it.

Re:Speeds up 80 clicks?

[eta526]

Actually, they have to stay within the speed limit. That's the only reason they don't go faster. UMR won last time. I'm hoping they can take it again. http://news.umr.edu/news/2005/solarprkit05.html

Re:Speeds up 80 clicks?

[Anonymous Coward]

It says 130km/h not 80km/h as you say in your title of "Speeds up 80 clicks". Miles per hour are not called clicks, so quit ripping off our Canadian terms and making false statements.

neat

[Anonymous Coward]

here's some really cool photos of the Queens' University car.

Down here in the States, it's hard enough to get equal marriage rights... but in Canada, there is a whole University just for Queens!

Re:neat

[Anonymous Coward]

That would be Queen's University. As in Queen Victoria. As opposed to the University of Victoria, which is presumably named after her west coast city. She had universities in Kingston (Canada), Cork, Dublin, Galway and Belfast, towns in Canada, a state in Australia, a waterfall in Africa, etc. All the marbles, basically.

Re:neat

[Anonymous Coward]

It's better than being the guy with the lamp shade on his head getting drunk and cracking dumb jokes by himself all night.

Re:neat

[Anonymous Coward]

I'll agree...
Circle get's the square.

Fron?

[agm]

Can't the editors do something so simple as spell check a word a 6 year old can spell?

Ummm...

[T_R_J]

What is Fron? Fron Fron...?? ....From?

Re:Ummm...

[VeganBob]

I don't know who he is either, but he must be tired from racing all of the solar-powered cars.

Re:Ummm...

[glass_window]

Fron is:
--"nice hotel right in the heart of Reykjavik Iceland" http://www.hotelfron.is/
--Welsh word for head or top (not terribly certain on this one)
--The name of an Undead hunter (lvl 4 Rouge, lvl 6 fighter) http://www.seankreynolds.com/rpgfiles/characters/f ron.html
--A surname http://www.ancestry.com/search/SurnamePage.aspx?ht ml=b&ln=Fron&sourcecode=13304
--A common misspelling of the word "from"

Re:Ummm...

[Anonymous Coward]

At least they got it right in the headline after this one.

Re:Ummm...

[Anonymous Coward]

no way. i know editors meant fr0n.

Good luck!

[Mr2cents]

.. and I hope it will become a better success than the arctic winter solar car race.

Re:Good luck!

[Barryke]

yeah they're still waiting for the solar flairs you know.

Solar Lifetime

[Valacosa]

I'll be rooting for my home team.
How much energy does it take to make a solar panel? Once in a while I hear someone say that solar panels take more energy to manufacture than they will produce in their entire lifetime, but I don't buy that without any numbers...

Re:Solar Lifetime

[Anonymous Coward]

The numbers I have been taught (studying sustainable development) is that a solar cell works with semiconductors, preferrably rather rare such ones, such as indium for instance. These minerals are at sparse concentrations when mining, so the energy consumtion is indeed great. However, a modern photovoltaic solar panel has an efficiency of somewhere 15%-20% of incoming energy from the sun. The energy needed to mine what's needed measures to somewhere between two and five years (depending on type. there are a dozen of them) of its lifetime in production. Solar cells usually run for around twenty years, so somewhere between one tenth and a fourth of its lifespan is used just to make up for its own production.

Re:Solar Lifetime

[Anonymous Coward]

If you take into account that most of the energy is produced during the day (and the electricity cost more during the day), the money spent on producing it will be recovered faster.

Route

[JeiFuRi]

I wonder what route they will be taking. But anyways, heres a nice idea of the distance between the two locations from Google Maps

Re:Route

[Anonymous Coward]

Whatever route they take, the speed limit is 110KM/h (70 mph) in Alberta.

They will possibly end up with a nice speeding ticket.

Re:Route

[my_breath_smells]

They're going North from Austin to Winnepeg Manitoba, then West to Calgary.

Re:Route

[stiny]

If you go to the race website you can take a look at the directions the teams are given. I cant remember where the link is, but its there somewhere.

home team

[mnemonic_]

Me too.

(FYI, the Michigan team has won the race numerous times, and has a budget exceeding $1 million.)

Re:home team

[stiny]

I guess I'll just have to follow the trend here and cheer on my team, Queen's. I just wish I was able to go on the actual race with the team.

Cafeine-powered Editor Spell from like pron

[Anonymous Coward]

no non-reusable energy

no non-nonsense editing

Re:WTF? - Entropy!

[BrianMarshall]

It is true that energy is neither created nor destroyed. However, gasoline is a highly concentrated, relatively low-entropy source of energy that can be used to do things; after it is used, the energy is still around, but it is in the form of heat - first in the engine and exhaust, then in the air, then just around - a relatively high-entropy form of energy.

In other words, gasoline is non-reusable in the sense that you can get work out of it when you burn it, but once it has been burned, it is burnt.

This is Uber smart :) :) :)

[John Seminal]

This is the smartest way to build new technologies. Find some really smart science kids (well maybe not kids, but at my age people in their 20's are puppies).

Anyways, find these smart pups and have an open competition. Not only will the smart kids find ways to build things, but they must be economical. It is not like a lab at Motorola with millions of dollars.

And third, patent everything these kids do, by a univeristy or some trusted public group, and let anyone use the patents for free (except Microsoft, fuck them).

The genius of this system is kids love to compete and show off their genius. They will do it all for pride and because it is interesting. It stimulates their mind, they get caught up in it, and they build fantastic things. Meanwhile, everyone else benifits, no monopolies from these new inventions. And maybe the public group that holds these patents could use them as leverage against large companies, to force them to pay a fee, and in some cases to ban them from using the patent for their preditory buisness practices.

This is how a community can help itself without giving one CEO compelete power to ruin lives.

And I hope these kids build things that soon will be used in real cars, to reduce the amount of gasoline needed. Wouldn't it be wonderful to have cars with 100 miles per gallon of gas, and that emitted 1/10th the amount of pollution? It is possible.

Re:This is Uber smart :) :) :)

[Anonymous Coward]

This is the smartest way to make some stuff. Find some really smart dinosaurs (well maybe not dinosaurs, but at my age people over thirty are old walruses).

Anyways, find these smart walruses and have an open competition. Not only will the clever walruses find ways to build things, they might even catch fish to finance the endeavor. It's a lot like Alaska.

The genius of this system is walruses love to compete and show off their flippers. They will do it all for pride and more fish. It stimulates their strange walrus minds, they get caught up in it, and they build fantastic things (mostly having to do with fish). Meanwhile, everyone else benefits, no monopolies from pesky Polar Bears. And maybe the eskimos that hold these patents could use them as leverage against wandering elk herds, to force them to graze near oil pipelines, and in some cases shoot them and make them into leather purses.

This is how a community can help itself without depending upon American Imperialism and/or a CEO to ruin their lives.

And I hope these old walruses build things that soon will be used in real dog-sleds, to reduce the amount of dog-food needed. Wouldn't it be wonderful to have dogs that would run forever and didn't shit so much? It is possible.

Re:This is Uber smart :) :) :)

[akuma(x86)]

You're bitter aren't you? :)

The smartest way to build new technologies is to offer some sort of financial reward that exceeds the costs and effort for coming up with such technologies. By definition, it must be "economical" because you need to see a reward that is greater than your investment.

Oh wait - we have that already. It's called CAPITALISM.

Go to Soviet Russia for communist technology "contests" and see how far that sort of "innovation" takes you.

Re:This is Uber smart :) :) :)

[Tune]

Go to Soviet Russia for communist technology "contests" and see how far that sort of "innovation" takes you.

(That may require time travel innovation first, but that's not my point.)
As a programmer I have the greatest respect for innovation by Soviet colleague. These guys put astronauts into space in stuff that's more reliable and energy-efficient than anything NASA or ESA could come up with, yet their "hi-tech" computer hardware had a disadvantage of some 20 years. Imagine that.

Re:This is Uber smart :) :) :)

[drew]

Unfortunately, in the Real World (TM) it doesn't work anything like that. Everything these kids do is owned by their schools, who will quite happily patent it and spin off a company to sell it if they see any actual potential to make real money off of it. If not, then at least they get some good advertising for their school by participating.

Re:This is Uber smart :) :) :)

[akuma(x86)]

I guess you still don't understand capitalism?

You're comparing 2 goverment programs (Soviets vs. NASA). This is not capitalism. There is no profit motive.

How about our vastly superior quality of life due to technology brought forward in the free market? THIS is capitalism.

Looks like their web server is solar powered

[Omega1045]

See subject line. The sun is just going down here in Austin, and I see their server is fried. Using the reasoning I have learned here at Slashdot, that means that their server must be solar powered!

Re:Looks like their web server is solar powered

[MisaDaBinksX4evah]

No, according to Slashdot reasoning, their server is polar soured (i.e. as fucked as you would be if you were up in the arctic with nothing but whiskey for food).

Pity they're not going near San Diego

[SST-206]

They could have parked here.

KYOCERA Inaugurates First-Ever Solar Grove, Unleashing "Power of the Sun" for Parking Facilities "Solar Trees" Convert Parking Lot into 235-Kilowatt Solar Electric Generating System.

(Alas, both websites are already /.'ed with only 23 comments.)

speed limits, safety?

[SuperBanana]

Travelling at speeds of up to 130km/hr (80mph), these teams will race from Austin Texas to Calgary Alberta all with no non-reusable energy.

That will be an impressive feat, with the US Federal highway speed limit of 65, and a Canadian speed limit on major roads up there not much faster; 100km/hr to 120km/hr, if I recall on my last trip?(it was months ago, sorry). Why is it that nobody else is allowed to break the speed limit, but these guys are? Particularly given their vehicles have about zero crashworthyness?

I'm also curious how they plan to keep solar cars from mixing with general traffic; there has been at least one fatal accident involving a solar car (which came apart like paper mache) a few months ago when a solar vehicle was being tested.

Honestly, what was wrong with an enduro race on a closed race circuit? At least then it would be more controllable, and emergency/rescue crews would be barely a minute or two from any participant. There are numerous reasons we do our racing OFF public roads...

Re:speed limits, safety?

[Anonymous Coward]

Umm, what federal speed limit would that be? That was revoked years ago - here in New Mexico we have lots of roads with speed limits of 70, 75 and even 80.

Re:speed limits, safety?

[(startx)]

There hasn't been a Federal Interstate speed lmit in, oh, 10 years now. Each state is allowed to set their own Interstate speed limits. For example, it's 70mph through most of MO, and 75 in CO I think. Interestingly, the last time I drove through KS to CO, everyone slowed down when crossing the border, even though the speed limit went up! I think it had something to do with the sign that said "Speed limits are enforced."

Back On-topic: Go UMR! Time for Solar Miner IV to win a second race!

Re:speed limits, safety?

[pegasustonans]

Well, I can tell you that's well below the unofficial Northern California speed limit. Here, everyone drives as fast as they feel like (usually around 90 mph) and the cops pull people over at random. It works out pretty well. Most people can rest assured they won't get a ticket for a number of years, and you get places quicker. Though, I do have a problem with all these damn Hummer H2s going ninety-plus, but, let's face it, a few Deep Impacts every now and then are the price we have to pay for progress.

Re:speed limits, safety?

[modecx]

Yeah, that speed limit thing has been gone a long time now.

Remember that thing about Montana, and how basically there were no speed limits for a few years? I so wish I could've taken a Ferrari around there, but I have a feeling the roads suck.

Speeds on most rural interstates are at least 75MPH. Except in southern states apparently. Arkansas to Virginia on I-40 is the slowest. Ugh. 55mph practically all the way. Going I-70 coast to coast would be faster, even considering the several hundred miles you have to make up.

Re:speed limits, safety?

[Anonymous Coward]

Honestly, what was wrong with an enduro race on a closed race circuit? At least then it would be more controllable, and emergency/rescue crews would be barely a minute or two from any participant.

Lighten up. Nobody is being forced to pilot these cars. I'm sure hundreds of people would happily a waiver and be a 130 km/h solar-power test pilot on the interstate.

Re:speed limits, safety?

[joshstaiger]

That will be an impressive feat, with the US Federal highway speed limit of 65, and a Canadian speed limit on major roads up there not much faster; 100km/hr to 120km/hr, if I recall on my last trip?(it was months ago, sorry). Why is it that nobody else is allowed to break the speed limit, but these guys are?

This alternate article states that each car must obey local speed limits.

So it sounds like the race becomes more about efficiency and conservation of energy through the cloudy spells than it is about raw speed.

--
http://joshstaiger.org/

Re:speed limits, safety?

[(startx)]

Time for Solar Miner IV to win a second race!

Looks like I should have checked the page before I submitted. The current car is Solar Miner V, not IV!

Re:speed limits, safety?

[gardyloo]

Interestingly, the last time I drove through KS to CO, everyone slowed down when crossing the border, even though the speed limit went up! I think it had something to do with the sign that said "Speed limits are enforced."

I'm from CO, and drove to KS each year to visit relatives. Believe me: it's because, well, it's Kansas. You get in, get out, as fast as possible.

Re:speed limits, safety?

[Evil-Lab-Monkey]

The cars are mostly street legal and follow all the same rules as regular cars. They have turn signals and brake lights and there has been a lot more invested in safety since one of the contestants died last time they ran this race, two years ago. When they ran it in '03 one of the cars got a speeding ticket so everyone knows the rules. Having said that, most cars won't go anything near those speeds. It's more an indurance race at speed of 50km/h. They keep the cars off the major highways as much as possible untill they hit Canada, then they go down the Trans Canada.

Re:speed limits, safety?

[teratogenicbenzene]

I actually partipated in the Sunrayce 97 and 99, with the LLCC team (http://www.formulasun.org/history/). The NGM motors that most of the teams used (and the one used by all of the top finishers) was digitally limited to approximately 72mph.

One of the best questions ever asked was about the feasibility of these cars. (i.e. are they actually viable, or are they engineers toys?)

I would pretty much have to respond that these are still very much just testbeds for solar research. Several square yards of solar cells (usually very fragile) are never going to be mainstream, and these vehicles are built to be as absolutely light as possible.
That said, these vehicles are amazing. I could easily push our vehicle with only my pinky, and total energy consumption at top speed was less than a hair drier. In my experience, these competitions really distinguish the brilliant and intuitive engineers from the commonplace ones.

All cars must pass several exhaustive safety checks, "scrutineering", where literally every bolt, nut, wire and square inch of composite is inspected by experienced engineers. (They even check the manufacturer's marks on bolts!) As a matter of fact, I remember that Texas A&M was disqualified because their vehicle rode an inch and a quarter too low to the ground. I wouldn't want to put one of our cars up against a semi, but safety is a primary concern to those involved. I mean, c'mon, how many people drive around much smaller (and less protected) motorcycles?

Re:speed limits, safety?

[fimbulvetr]

Although I'm pretty young and should drive fast and reckless, my A4 gets about 19-23mpg at 80MPH and about 34-38mpg at 60. I rarely drive to/from work faster than 55-60. Honestly, why would I? It doesn't feel like a race anymore once you slow down. It's kinda like that time when you forget to where your watch and never put it on again because of your newly discovered freedom.
Not to mention how much longer one's car will last because you're not driving it like your insane.
I see these benefits for taking my time:
#1. Almost 2x the mpg.
#2. Longer lasting car.
#3. I don't live my life in a race.
#4. I don't need to worry about speeding tickets.
#5. (Probably) less accidents - my reaction time stays the same but my braking distance decreases.

Tell me why it's cool to drive (not) really fast again? People like to think they're rebels over here because they can drive over 90. Pathetic.

Oh, I even forgot to discuss the manslaughter charges when you get busted for speeds 100+. (Could be higher or lower in your state)

Re:speed limits, safety?

[fimbulvetr]

Dammit! I knew I was gonna fuck up a (your!=you are) somewhere. So be it.

Re:speed limits, safety?

[Jeff DeMaagd]

Montana didn't have a specified number as speed limit for their roads, but the limit was "reasonable and prudent". 90MPH was not considered reasonable or prudent by any judges that I heard.

Re:speed limits, safety?

[TykeClone]

Interestingly, the last time I drove through KS to CO, everyone slowed down when crossing the border, even though the speed limit went up! I think it had something to do with the sign that said "Speed limits are enforced."

As opposed to South Dakota - I believe that they're speed limit signs say "Speed limits are ignored"

Re:speed limits, safety?

[ferds32]

I'm also curious how they plan to keep solar cars from mixing with general traffic; there has been at least one fatal accident involving a solar car (which came apart like paper mache) a few months ago when a solar vehicle was being tested.

The rules of this race and the World Solar Challenge are similar. (I believe this is deliberate, so a car built for one race can race in the other.) The cars are required to have escort vehicles at all times in the World Solar Challenge. I should imagine the American race would be the same.

Honestly, what was wrong with an enduro race on a closed race circuit? At least then it would be more controllable, and emergency/rescue crews would be barely a minute or two from any participant. There are numerous reasons we do our racing OFF public roads...

Racing on the roads gives vastly more public exposure to the technology. The public, at least in outback Australia and Japan, are facinated by the cars. Taking a few hybrids along means people also see the practical application of some of the technology and can even take a hybrid for a drive! None of that would happen on a closed circuit. There are circuit races as well, such as the Dream Cup, but they serve a quite different type of racing.

--
Tom Rowlands
(Sorry, I can't sign this.)

Re:speed limits, safety?

[pegasustonans]

I don't think the idea is that it's cool to drive really fast. That's just what most people do (at least on certain highways).

When you're talking about a six-lane freeway with lots of visibility, I'd say it's arguably quite safe to drive at these speeds so long as there is plenty of room between you and the next car. I agree that life shouldn't have to be race. But, perhaps some people just like to drive at ninety. So long as they're safe and generally courteous in the way they drive (and willing to accept a speeding ticket if it comes their way), I personally don't have a problem with this.

Re:speed limits, safety?

[Infinityis]

The race speed limit is 65 miles per hour for each car. An observer travels with each team, sits in one of the chase vehicles, and notes if and when that speed limit is broken.

Also, the problem with a closed circuit race is public attention. The race has several purposes, one of which is to make the public more aware of alternative energy sources. IAASCR (I am a solar car racer) and let me tell you, when you're driving one of these solar cars, you get lots of people stopping and looking, some taking pictures. Plus, there's typically 15 to 20 media stops along the route, usually in a Wal-mart parking lot or something to that effect, and those also draw sizable crowds.

Can't do that with a closed race circuit...

Re:speed limits, safety?

[stiny]

Youre completely right on both parts.

The teams need to have a vehicle in front of and behind their solar car, each easily visible with flashing amber lights on the roofs, and none are able to tow a trailer. The tow vehicle must be a minimum of 500m (I think) behind the car.

Plus, in addition to increasing exposure to the technology, by having the race go through many states and cities, it allows the technology to advance. Companies are much more willing to invest large amounts of money when their logo will be displayed throughout the country instead of at one single location.

Re:speed limits, safety?

[hockeyref2]

In the 2003 race, the media stops were usually at some more prominent place. I.e. Lincoln Land Community College, EDS in St. Louis, MO (Race Sponsor) UMR Campus, etc. Race rules limit speeds to 65mph. Anyways most cars cannot go the speed limit the entire way. In '03 we followed old Route 66, so there were lots of towns and such where you had to go 25, 35, etc, etc. Oh yea... http://www.umn.edu/umnsvp/ Go Gophers!

Re:speed limits, safety?

[ThyPiGuy]

Also, although some cars could get up to 80 (it all really depends on the motor and the amount of $$$ you have), you couldn't maintain that speed. The batteries would be sucked dry pretty quickly, so the stratedge of when to go faster and when to go what speed at what time is a big factor. I believe the winning car last time had an average speed of something like 53mph. As a side note, there are two classes, open and stock. I believe open has no limit on money and types of supplies and so forth, and stock limits the money for teams that can't afford to race in the open classification.

Re:speed limits, safety?

[hockeyref2]

Rolla went 43.3 mph average. Minnesota who came in 2nd (my team) was somewhere around 39mph.

But hey, when their array had over 50% more power, what can you do?

Another issue with speed is that the NGM motors, which most teams use have an adjustable gap, which changes the torque curve and top speed (and peak efficiency range). If you cant change the gap while moving, then you are somewhat limited also.

Main difference now between stock and open class is solar array technology. In the 2003 race, stock teams could only use lead-acid batteries while open class could use anything basically. Top performers were Li-Ion and Li-Ion Polymer.

Re:speed limits, safety?

[ThyPiGuy]

Oops off by 10mph. 43mph sounds more realistic. Yeah, we're (UT) are in the Stock class as we didn't get all our funding until we'd already bought our solar cells. I think the battery restriction has been lifted this year.

Re:speed limits, safety?

[KD7JZ]

No.. actually there was quite a famous case locally. (I live in the Big Sky state.) This fellow was stopped doing over 120mph. He took the case to jury trial. He successfully argued that it was reasonable. His arguments were that he had been a professional race driver, was driving a sports car safely capable of that speed, had speed rated tires, the road was dry, and he was on an empty piece of interstate...
He beat the rap..

Re:speed limits, safety?

[mdey87]

Actually the cars are very safe. unlike your passanger car, each one features a full roll cage, have a fire extinguiser, 5 point harness. and riders must beable to exit the care in only a few seconds. Most of the cars feature a full telemtrics system. IN short they are far safer than anything you will ever ride in. Additionaly all vechicals are supported by their teams. This includes lead and chase cars with yellow warning lights, and onboard emergency members, which are more than cappable of dealing with all but emergency medical situations. a circle track race isnt the same kind of engineering challenge. (yes they do do circle track races with these solar cars) These cars have to prove their abilities on roads whith varring terrain, weather conditions, enviroments, and physical properties. Plus lets face it, road races are more entertaining for te public, who line the roads when the cars go through. \http://solar42.umr.edu/

Re:speed limits, safety?

[arbitraryaardvark]

Travelling at speeds of up to 130km/hr (80mph), these teams will race from Austin Texas to Calgary Alberta all with no non-reusable energy. That will be an impressive feat, with the US Federal highway speed limit of 65, and a Canadian speed limit on major roads up there not much faster; 100km/hr to 120km/hr, if I recall on my last trip?(it was months ago, sorry). Why is it that nobody else is allowed to break the speed limit, but these guys are? +5 interesting. unsound, but interesting. If you plan to spend much time on the internets, you might want to learn the meaning of "up to".

Re:speed limits, safety?

[liryon]

I just asked this question to the team from kansas state at an event here in austin and they do indeed have escorts cars, and are allowed to break the speed limits on this race.

However, in testing and such they must obey speed limits, which as it turns out is just as annoying for them as it is for the rest of us.

Re:speed limits, safety?

[derubergeek]

with the US Federal highway speed limit of 65

I wasn't aware there was a federally mandated highway speed limit in the US. Certainly the Feds can dangle the "Federal highway funds" carrot over the state legislature's noses, but I'm fairly certain that's ultimately up to the states. I just did about 5000 miles of highway/interstate driving the past 2 weeks, and speed limits varied from 55 (max speed on winding mountain-type roads) to 75 (various interstate highways). And 81 isn't typically bothered with on the interstate - at least not in the western US.

The state of South Dakota is currently deciding whether to up the speed limit on one of their highways from 65 to 70, and according to this article other states are doing the same "Texas has lifted its limit on some roads to 80mph (129kmh). Iowa has raised its rural road limit to 70mph (113kmh), which better reflects the actual speed of cars on rural highways, say legislators. Indiana has raised its rural maximum from 65mph to 70mph."

All that flatness

[Kozar_The_Malignant]

Certainly leaving Texas is a noble goal, but the route seems a bit boring. It is a race, so passing through Kansas as rapidly as possible is on everyone's mind, but then it always is, no matter what. Austin to Vancouver would be a lot more challenging.

Re:All that flatness

[Anonymous Coward]

Austin Texas is one of the coolest cities in the US perhaps a more noble goal on your part would be to come and check it out.

Re:All that flatness

[Kozar_The_Malignant]

Been there, done that. The vast majority of Texans think that Austin should be sold to some other state cheap, and the capital moved to Lubbock. Austin is the coolness ghetto of Texas.

Re:All that flatness

[UnknowingFool]

Certainly leaving Texas is a noble goal, but the route seems a bit boring.

I usually don't watch a solar-powered car race for excitement, but I suppose they event organizers could put a few suicidal hills and a few land mines for excitement. Maybe even allow the competitors to have oil slicks, smoke machines, or machine guns. And have a lead car blaring out the theme to Spy Hunter during the race. Now that would NOT be boring.

Re:All that flatness

[Moocowsia]

Hahaha, not a single team would make it anywhere near Vancouver under solar power with the weather we've been having recently.

Hot Damn Tamale!

[Sponge Bath]

The way the weather has been in Austin this last month, they should have enough power to fly to Calgary... if they don't burst into flames first.

I have a mental image of a non-air conditioned vehicle dodging 18 wheelers on I-35.

Hell on Earth. (Welcome to Texas)

Re:Hot Damn Tamale!

[MisaDaBinksX4evah]

Hell on Earth. (Welcome to Texas)

I thought that was Missouri (Misery), or maybe I'm confusing it with Detroit?

Re:Hot Damn Tamale!

[Infinityis]

Kinda makes you wish solar cars had air conditioning (note: they don't. The most drivers will get is a tiny fan and a small duct running from the wheel area to their head.)

Re:Hot Damn Tamale!

[LeftHanded]

You'd think so, wouldn't you? I happened to see the MIT team driving theirs on US 290, and they had a pair of people running behind it and pushing periodically... unless they get those bugs out, MIT is going to have to hope for lots of downhill stretches.

Re:WTF? - Entropy!

[dreamchaser]

That's not *entirely* true. A turbocharger uses the power from the waste gasses(exhaust) to drive the turbine that then adds boost to the air/fuel mix. So in that sense, the gasoline is used twice ;)

Canadians Cells Solar Sails

[comzen]

Q. - How many Canadians does it take to build a solar car?

Re:Canadians Cells Solar Sails

[payamchee]

> Q. - How many Canadians does it take to build a solar car?

A. - Fourteen, apparently.

ref: http://www.qsvt.ca/

Re:Canadians Cells Solar Sails

[macaulay805]

Fourteen.

Two to build the car.

Twelve to sharpen the ice skates.

Re:Canadians Cells Solar Sails

[Man in Spandex]

Q - Okay, Okay. How many dirty stinkin' apes does it take to screw in a lightbulb?

A- Three. One dirty stinkin' ape to screw in the light bulb, and two dirty stinkin' apes to throw faeces at each other. Hehehehehehe.

Re:Canadians Cells Solar Sails

[Anonymous Coward]

I do hope this wasn't a sick dig at the memory of Andrew Frow.

Re:Canadians Cells Solar Sails

[aqk]

Just one.

But I think he moved to Florida.

Finally. This is good

[Anonymous Coward]

A ham radio story on slashdot! Woohoo! :-)

Fron

[Bullseye_blam]

I'm sorry to complain, but Slashdot's quality has really gone to hell lately. To be honest, I don't understand much about the editing process here, but something really needs to change. Between the mis-spellings and constantly late and duplicate articles, I think this web site could stand for some improvement.

Re:Fron

[BigGerman]

These guys are sitting on a gold mine (properly edited /. with well-developed related services).
It is their baby however and their choice not to make it what it could have been.
Interesting how the quality of the comments went together with the quality of content too.

Re:Fron

[Anonymous Coward]

AGREED! What is this crap.

That's Queen's University, not Queens' University

[mattrwilliams]

Here's a link to the main university website: http://www.queensu.ca/ For those not familiar with it, Queen's is one of the top engineering schools in Canada. It is located in Kingston, Ontario (on Lake Ontario in fact).

Racing from tyranny to freedom

[WillAffleck]

too bad it's uphill, but at least most of the route is flat.

One interesting impact will be that if you fail to make it all the way, you start off receiving more solar radiation (power) at the beginning of the race than you have at the end of the race, as you start closer to the equator than you finish at.

Thus, a system with a slightly better power storage system (battery) and more efficient battery cycles, might have an edge in the race over a more efficient vehicle with a smaller battery storage and/or less efficient battery cycles.

I remember being a founding member of SESCI, Inc. way back when, so this route is really fun ...

Re:Racing from tyranny to freedom

[Anonymous Coward]

Last time I checked, the further north you are, the MORE sunlight (at least until Sept 21).

Re:Racing from tyranny to freedom

[Daverd]

But that's weaker, angled sunlight. The sun shines directly overhead at the Tropic of Cancer (on the summer solstice) and works its way back down to the equator (on the equinox) from there.

Could anyone tell me the purpose of this race?

[theurge14]

I'm well aware that many of you are either on one of these solar car teams or were in years past.

So perhaps one of you could tell me, why do they do this race every year? Does this race actually advance the solar cell technology and improve the efficiency from year to year, or is it merely everyone spending a year shaving off weight so they have bragging rights over the other schools for 12 months?

I guess my point is, are the cars racing now that much more improved than when they did the race 5 years ago? If not, what's the big hoopla about?

Thank you.

Re:Could anyone tell me the purpose of this race?

[KD5YPT]

They do this for several reason (some of which you already said).

1. Raise awareness for solar power as a renewable energy.
2. Promote advancement in design of power system involving solar power. This includes power panels, recharging battery, and motor.

And while shaving weight do help, it's actually more important trying to get more efficient motors, better power panels and panel placement and better battery while finding a good balance between them.

Re:Could anyone tell me the purpose of this race?

[Evil-Lab-Monkey]

First off, the race is not ran every year. It's ran every second year. There has been significan advancement in the solar array department in the last couple of years. The array we installed on our car is far more efficient than one we could have put on last time the race was ran. The motor we installed in ours, which is the same one the majority of the other contenders is a brand new technology as well. It's a three phase brushless DC motor that's direct drive. The company that makes it is a perfect example of why we run this race. It's few university students who came up with an idea and gathered a few bucks to start up their own business. Without this race they never would have had the chance to do any of it. They're now working converting things like Dodge Rams to use these electric motors. It's very much on the cutting edge and it really lets creativity bloom even on a shoestring budget.

Re:Could anyone tell me the purpose of this race?

[vlado4]

I have been on the University of Minnesota Solar Vehicle Project for the past four years and this is the first race that I will be missing due to graduation. To answer your question, it is important to keep the competition going. No, cars are not completely re-designed every year, however constantly rebuilding them allows a proper evolution to occur. The UMN team is particularly interesting because we try to do as much of our own work as possible. Power trackers, motor controller, motor, encapsulating the cells, battery controller, etc, are all desgined by us. This doesn't always guarantee the best results vs. some of our competitors who outsource much of their cars to professional companies, but gives us a great feeling of achivement. Out current car, Borealis III, has few revolutionary improvements over Borealis II, but we've fixed many problems that have plagued us in the past and improved our reliability immensely. If we go back five years ago, the car we had then was dramatically inferrior. Now we have an all digital communication system (BDLC), robust power trackers, and good encapsulation. The carbon fiber body of the car improved a lot too. Before it used to crack after significant wear. For more info, check out the official lwebsite of the UMN Solar Vehicle Project. [http://160.94.140.26/%5D BTW, we are one of the top teams, the last race, which was from Chicago to LA was tough, but we placed second afret UMR (their array generated much more power). There is also a endurance race around a track that happens in Topeka Kansas every year, which we often place first in.

Re:Could anyone tell me the purpose of this race?

[Infinityis]

In addition to the other replies to your post, there's the engineering challenge to it.

Lots of us on solar car teams are there because we wanted something classes can't/don't/won't offer: practical experience. You can get all the equations right on the exam, but if you don't know how it connects to the real world, it's no good. For many students, this is one of the few ways to do something fun and challenging that's related to their coursework in some way.

Also, it looks good on a resume. Lots of people would rather hire someone with experience than someone without.

But that's all for the perspective of why the student would want to do it. As for why the race officials want to do it, I'd guess it's mostly the same reasons, it's fun, it's educational, it's good for the environment, and they probably secretly hope that one team someday will come up with an excellent idea with practical effects (if it hasn't happened already).

Re:Could anyone tell me the purpose of this race?

[tyagiUK]

> And while shaving weight do help, it's actually more important trying to get more efficient motors, better power panels and panel placement and better battery while finding a good balance between them.

"This year's race was brought to you in conjunction with The Atkins Diet and Radio Shack."

Re:Could anyone tell me the purpose of this race?

[releppes]

Sorta makes me wish I was back in college again. I remember seeing on PBS some new solar panel technology that made of a flexible plastic like material. Unlike the rigid solar cells of the past, this flexible solar panel could withstand punchure wounds. I don't know much about the motor technology used, but there's also been great advances in battery technology. Battery technology has been advancing at a rapid pace over the past ten years. Just look at your laptop to convince yourself of that. I can't imaging that the same solar car would race every year. In fact, I'm surprized this race is only held every other year. I wish my college, Univerisy at Buffalo, was more active in participating in cool events like this.

Double Negatives

[Rac3r5]

reusable =1

no non-reusable = !(!reusable) =!(!1)=!0=1=reusable

can't they just say reusable??

Re:Double Negatives

[Anonymous Coward]

can't they just say reusable??

Not no.

Highway limits not correct.

[zippthorne]

US lifted the highway limit years ago and left it up to the states to determine the speed limit on their segments. Oddly the federal limit came down at around the same time that Montana removed its autobahn-like 'reasonable and prudent' limit on some state highways. Both the Interstate and the State highways near me (out here on the east coast) have speed limits of 75 mph. I have not seen 80 or higher, but there is no reason it cannot exist.

But yah.. I'd sure hate to crash one of those solar cars. Or drive it over a poorly maintained highway. or drive it at all really.

Solar races are particular disheartening when you realise that they ARE the state of the art. There will never be a solar powered minivan or even a solar sedan. There simply is not enough insolation to move that profile at reasonable highway speeds. There might still be some speed improvements in the racers, but solar vehicles that could fit on a highway are always going to be flimsy 1-2 passenger deathbikes.

Re:Highway limits not correct.

[corngrower]

About the only chance of solar powered cars really happening is if the solar panels are stationary, and the cars pick up their power through some kind of contacts on the roadway. You know, like those toy electronic race cars.

Red River College Raycer

[Evil-Lab-Monkey]

I'll be routing for the car I worked on. http://xnet.rrc.mb.ca/solarcar/ The Red River Raycer. We're one of only two colleges entering the race. I had the pleasure of working on the electrical part of the car up until last Thursday. They left on Friday for Austin with our convoy of Civic Hybrids to go through qualifying and scruteneering. We just finished building it on Thursday night, with the solar array working for the first time at about 6:00 in the evening so it was right down to the wire. Wish em luck for me guys.

Fron

[Anonymous Coward]

Fron fron fron fron fron? Fron! ;)

Re:WTF? - Entropy!

[zippthorne]

A turbocharger increases the backpressure, which increases the engine load. It would probably be just as effective (though more geometrically challenging) to run the turbo-charger directly off the shaft.

The turbo is not running off of unspent fuel (and if it were, some kind of system for preventing that.. say a turbo of some kind... would be appropriate) So no, you're not getting 'free power' from the spent gasses.

Re:That's Queen's University, not Queens' Universi

[raider_red]

After all, we all know that Queens' University is in Austin, and Leslie is its president.

Too bad

[Photon Ghoul]

Too bad that it's raining in Austin right now. Doh!

Re:Too bad

[repetty]

No, I was here, too.

That's just sweat.

What's the purpose of any competition?

[gvc]

To win, to have fun, to learn something, to promote oneself, to promote awareness.

What's the point of your favourite form of entertainment?

By the way, here's Waterloo's entry.

THANKS FOR ALL YOUR REPLIES!

[theurge14]

Interesting stuff.

Re:WTF? - Entropy!

[Bun]

A turbocharger increases the backpressure, which increases the engine load. It would probably be just as effective (though more geometrically challenging) to run the turbo-charger directly off the shaft.

You mean a supercharger would be just as effective? Maybe.

Re:That's Queen's University, not Queens' Universi

[ptbarnett]

After all, we all know that Queens' University is in Austin, and Leslie is its president.

I'm probably the one of the few that understands this joke, but unfortunately I don't have any mod points.

But I can offer this, which is the first non-paid hit when Googling for "leslie austin":

http://projects.is.asu.edu/pipermail/hpn/2000-May/ 000742.html

Yummy yummy yummy solar cells.....

[technoextreme]

This article reminds me of two solar cells concepts that are being created. The first one that I remember is one that is using the proteins from spinach to actually create power. Here is a link. http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20040605/fob2. asp Also, I actually created a crude solar cell from either rasberries or blackberries at a science musuem. It actually worked. Now all that needs to be done is to stop the cells from breaking down.

Re:Yummy yummy yummy solar cells.....

[CrackHappy]

Power from Spinach

You have Got To Be Kidding Me

Re:WTF? - Entropy!

[dreamchaser]

I didn't say you were getting free power. I simply stated that the energy from the gasoline was being used more than once, in more than one manner.

And as someone already pointed out, you described a supercharger

And in real life...

[oneiros27]

We have companies like New Generation Motors, which is owned by the former advisors of the George Washington University solar car team, and they used equiptment that had been bought for the project tax exempt. (and when I tried asking for the stuff back, I got bitched out and told that our faculty advisor could store the stuff whereever he wanted, even if it meant we couldn't use it on the project) -- although he was kind enough to give us stuff with 'property of NASA' tags on it, where two of them also worked.

They claimed the work of students as that of the company, and they made axial flux motors that are used in many of the solar cars today.

I reported this to the Dean of GW's engineering school in 1995 (right after the success of GW at the World Solar Rallye), and was threatened with expulsion to shut me up. (I didn't know he was bringing in a $3mil grant to the university, and they'd rather have that, than ethics).

Of course, the faculty advisor kept being greedy, and was finally charged with embezzlement for a completely unrelated grant last year.

Destination Entry (University of Calgary)

[my_breath_smells]

Given that Calgary was chosen as the destination before the local University was notified (before they even knew they were even being considered as the destination), the University of Calgary's entry has been developed from scratch in around 9 months. Good luck team, you've worked madly and you deserve to do well.

Despite my bias for my alma mater, I think they've done an amazing job despite having no previous experience.

I-40

[orulz]

I seem to recall a long stretch in the Pigeon River Gorge in the Smoky Mountains where the speed limit is 50mph. That's about the curviest piece of interstate that I've ever seen.

Re:I-40

[modecx]

Yeah, I-40 through Tennessee is probably some of the the curviest interstate down there. It's quite a relief, actually, after going though Arkansas and I-85 between Durham and Richmod.. I think those are some of the lamest stretches of highway anywhere... Including anything Kansas, Texas and New Mexico have to offer.

I have no problem shooting up canyon roads in the rockies at 40-50mph if there's nobody around--not that I'd ever try to take a corner that fast, that's just crazy. Possible if you didn't have to worry about the blind corner, but crazy still. But 50 on an interstate is just lame. I really like TN, though. Nice land, dosen't have the bad vibe some southern states have (Arkansas is cursed ground, I swear. I can never get through there fast enough), and everyone's really friendly.

Found 'Fron...'

[cobrabyte]

In case you were wondering what 'Fron' was ...

Wiki: Fron

-c

This is Uber wasteful

[Shihar]

I hate to be the wet blanket, but I really don't see this as being terribly useful. Does it sound like fun? Sure. If making renewable energy more of a reality is the goal though, this seems like a waste of funds. Solar cars will never be a reality. It doesn't matter what you do, there is a finite limit on how much energy hits the surface of the earth per area, and it isn't a lot.

That is not to say that we couldn't make solar powered cars that would fit most people's driving needs. This contest certainly shows that you can get a human from point at A to B just the power of the sun, but the sacrifices you make to get there is the real problem. Even if you could be content with the dramatic power reduction, the elimination of most luxuries, and the dramatically reduced hauling load, the safety 'compromises' are simply unforgivable. These cars would be moving coffins even on European streets where the cars are smaller and lighter. They are death traps waiting to happen on American streets.

If a university wanted to set up a competition really worthwhile, the competition would be to produce the solar cells with the highest power/cost ratio over a long period of time given a certain size constraint. Or even better, have them develop a solar cell with the highest power/cost ratio possible that can act as roofing tiles and survive some stress testing. Solar cells are still too costly to get them to really eat a sizable chunk of our power needs. If someone really wanted to do something great, they would work towards make ultra cheap, durable, solar cells. With those, not only can you eat some of our power costs, but things like hydrogen fuel cells truly become 'green', instead of just changing where the polution is coming from.

Re:This is Uber wasteful

[TykeClone]

the elimination of most luxuries

Like, for instance, heat in the wintertime :)

That's kind of a big stumbling block for solar (or any electric) vehicles in areas north of the Mason-Dixon line. I had a vehicle where the heater fan wouldn't function below about 35F. That really sucked in the middle of winter.

Re:That's Queen's University, not Queens' Universi

[er_head66]

Top engineering school...I don't think so. Not compared to the University of Waterloo. Their solar car, the Midnight Sun, http://midsun.uwaterloo.ca/www/, has won several races and currently holds the world record for the longest purely Solar-powered tour around North America.

Re:That's Queen's University, not Queens' Universi

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm a Waterloo elec. eng grad and I must say we can be pretty arrogant bastards. This is not a good thing.

However, arrogance is a relative thing. Go meet some Americans from the big research schools.

Re:That's Queen's University, not Queens' Universi

[stiny]

I would like to take the oppurtunity to point out that the Waterloo record was not officially recognised, leaving Queen's with the longest official trip by a solar car. And I thought I read somewhere that a team in Asia (Japan?) beat Waterloo's record, also unofficially. And in my opinion, Waterloo and Queen's are of the same calibre when it comes to engineering.

umich.edu

[fbartho]

Umich Team Car Photos

We're gonna win!!!

Non reusable?

[StikyPad]

I was under the impression that energy can't just disappear, even after work is done. I should have known better though; all my energy disappears before I even get to work. Stupid thermodynamics.

Plug for UT

[ThyPiGuy]

I have to plug the team I'm on! Let's go UTSVT

Re:That's Queen's University, not Queens' Universi

[Anonymous Coward]

Top engineering school... I DO think so, particularly regarding solar cars.

Waterloo has never had the accolades that Queen's has regarding solar cars. For the best and easiest comparison, look at their respective performance in the World Solar Challenges. MIT and Queen's rule the university roost there, not Waterloo. Queen's is the only Canadian entrant to ever rank first among the universities.

Re:WTF? - Entropy!

[mcrbids]

That's not *entirely* true. A turbocharger uses the power from the waste gasses(exhaust) to drive the turbine that then adds boost to the air/fuel mix. So in that sense, the gasoline is used twice ;)

Except,that this isn't entirely true, either. A turbocharger uses the difference in pressure from the exhaust of the motor and the outside air. This pressure comes from someplace, and in this case, it's the intake and compression strokes of the motor. If the energy consumed by a turbocharger wasn't pumped back into the intake of the motor, the added drag would kill the motor immediately.

Most of this energy cost is offset, however, by the fact that the turbocharger increases the pressure on the intake. Thus, a turbocharter (quite literally) consumes 90% of the increased pressure to perform its task.

In short, the turbocharger almost equalizes itself, but in the process, leaves an extra 10% which, combined with the more efficient burning of gasoline at higher pressures, is what gives the turbocharged engine that extra kick.

It's *very* hard on engine parts, which is why you can't just bolt on a turbocharger to any old existing motor and expect it to last very long.

Those pesky laws of thermodynamics! There ain't no free lunch, you know...

A rising star?

[mcrbids]

A new site's coming, and it seems to be decent... technocrat.net

It's slash-based, seems to have decent content, and you can still get a UID small enough to remember if you register. It's still no match for slashdot in terms of sheer volume, but...

Free publicity!

[Seidoger]

Lol! cheap shot publicity for Queens :-P

-- Team member of another solar car team.

Re:Free publicity!

[Seidoger]

But yeah, i won't plug my team, since we're not doing NASC 2005, hehe so see ya all at the FSGP 2006! :|

Calgary's submission

[Anonymous Coward]

Here's a link to the University of Calgary's car: http://www.ucalgary.ca/oncampus/online/june-05/car .html/

The prototype was included in the Calgary Stampede Parade http://www.calgarystampedeparade.com/ last friday.

wrong

[Anonymous Coward]

mechanical, chemical, engphys, QU and others are miles ahead of WataWoo.

Re:That's Queen's University, not Queens' Universi

[Anonymous Coward]

Of the same caliber? I am going to Waterloo in the fall, and let me tell you, Queens and Waterloo are definitely far apart in engineering leagues.

Re:That's Queen's University, not Queens' Universi

[Anonymous Coward]

You sure talk a lot of crap for someone who will be attending their first year this fall.

What? Did Mommy and Daddy brainwash you in thinking Waterloo is super l33t because you had to do well on a math test?

The school is living off past fame.

Quote from the 2nd-place winner

[Tablizer]

&!#@* eclipse!

Re:Quote from the 2nd-place winner

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, &!#@* Eclipse!

A Canuck responds

[freeweed]

Nope.

The more sunlight HOURS, but at any given moment, the sun is lower in the sky up here (posted from their destination of Calgary, Alberta).

Believe me, the sun is still quite noticably south of the zenith at noon here, even on the summer solstice.

Basically, they could drive longer up here in a given day, but with less power all along. It comes down to how much actual sunlight energy these cars need to run.

Re:That's Queen's University, not Queens' Universi

[KingEomer]

I don't know... We placed 4th in the ACM this year, which is no small feat. Unless you mean engineering specifically, as opposed to the school in general, in which case I have no clue. I avoid that side of campus (except during EngScunt). :P Still, I'd agree with you; if he hasn't attended the school before, he really has no good basis for comparison. He should decide for himself.

Re:WTF? - Entropy - Eventually it goes to heat

[BrianMarshall]

You can step back and consider the turbo-charger to be part of the engine.

You can be very clever about using as much of the energy in the gasoline as you can, but in the big picture, you burn your gas, you get some work done, and at the end of it all, the air gets a bit warmer.

Same for the solar power, but the Sun has a BIG fuel tank.

No non-reusable

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't ya not hate it when they never never use negatives.

Re:WTF? - Entropy!

[Alien Being]

"The turbo is not running off of unspent fuel (and if it were, some kind of system for preventing that.. say a turbo of some kind... would be appropriate)"

The fuel has been spent, but the energy hasn't all been harnessed. A "turbo" of some kind is indeed appropriate.

The turbo does create backpressure, but most of the power it uses comes from heat which would have been wasted, so it really is free*. It's much more efficient than a shaft driven blower.

*The free power is just for the blower. The extra power that it allows the engine to make is not free because the extra air gets mixed with extra fuel.

How about 300,000?

[bigsteve@dstc]

Hmmm ... if light travels at 186,000 miles per second, I wonder how fast I would go if I managed to latch onto a photon as it passed between my fingers? Don't try this at home folks :-)

UMR

[Otto]

UMR has won three times now, I think. Before that, they always did pretty well. The solar car team is a reasonably big deal at Rolla, what with there being little else to do in that hellhole of a town. I should know, I was there for 5 years. :P

And if they lose, well, they always have St. Pats in which to drown their sorrows. :)

Re:UMR

[taped2thedesk]

Rolla has won twice, in '99 and '03.

Umich is the only team that has won three times ('90, '93, '01), more than any other team.

Best of luck to all teams competing this year.

forget solar power...

[Anonymous Coward]

switch to human power: http://www.greenspeed.com.au/WSCmain.htm

Re:WTF? - Entropy!

[hcdejong]

ISTR superchargers are generally less efficient because they don't harness the waste energy going out the exhaust. The advantage of a supercharger lies in the fact that it doesn't lag. A supercharger may also be cheaper bacause it runs at much lower speeds.

So how will these cars' energy be re-used?

[Anonymous Coward]

So?

These are cool but ...

[kkovach]

... how bout something I can put some groceries in? Something I can take tke kids to baseball practice in? Hell how bout just something where I don't have to butter myself up and slide into? Did you see these things? :-)

- Kevin

Re:WTF? - Entropy!

[hb253]

Another well known method is to compound supercharge, that is, use both crankshaft driven and exhaust gas driven compressors to maximize power output.

Re:WTF? - just bad writing

[CrazyMik]

Forget Entropy arguements, metaphors are being mixed, phrases fouled up, and people are just looking stupid.

They must have meant "non-renewable" or they, in a very strange way, meant that solar panels are "reusable".

But it really is apple and oranges since solar panels are not really energy, just a way to harvest it in a desired form. Oil pumps are reuseable too. And just think the energy ultimately came from the same source, the sun. I suspect that these entropy arguments are not corect.

International race

[Anonymous Coward]

Time to get to the border: 26 hours. Time to cross the border is experimental non-road certified vehicle piloted by drunk students: 26 hours.

Should be an interesting race.

Why are they using DC motors

[kurt555gs]

All this engineering and these cars seem to all be using obsolete DC motors and drives.

The Toyota Prius uses an AC motor, AC drive with the DC battery powering the DC bus of the drive.

The sensorles torque vector control of new AC drives and standard AC motors is far and away more precice that any DC drive system or motor.

Just hook the solar cells up in series to get 335 volts, hook it to the DC bus of an off the shelf sensorless torque vector AC drive to an off the shelf AC motor.

The accelerator pedal would be a rheostat to a torque reference input on the drive.

From what I have read, not one of the cars entered uses this, and it is far far more effecient than any DC drive could ever be even in a theoreticaly.

These engineering schools should know this. Unless they are just years behind, aka old text books.

It is possibe some one is using this, but I did not see it.

The whole drive system would be under $5000.00 including the PLC control.

Oh well, just a thought.

Re:Why are they using DC motors

[cbc1920]

These motors are not, by any means, conventional DC motors. They're actually better described as a brushless 3-phase axial flux motor, also known as a "pancake" design. The DC power, 60-120V, is first fed through a fairly advanced motor controller that outputs a trapezoidal wave to each of the 3 phases. Each phase, in turn, pulls 12 rare-earth magnets, glued to the rotor, around the axle.
The chief design limitation these motors get around is that they can provide 11hp while fitting nearly inside a 3-inch wide wheel. As for efficiency, the motors are around 95%. Almost any other motor, AC included, either can't supply enough torque or doesn't fit within the tight aerodynamic package that these cars require. At $20,000 a piece, this motor is still the cheapest option for most teams, as better motors can cost twice as much.

Re:WTF? - Entropy!

[hcdejong]

Correct, but that's fairly rare (the only use I know of is the Lancia Delta S4, a group B rally car) because of its complexity and cost.
Another variation, the turbocompound engine, uses turbochargers plus a second turbine that has an output to the crankshaft. This increases efficiency, so it's a little more popular (Scania and Volvo use it in truck engines, some of the last generation of large aircraft piston engines used it as well).

No non-reusable energy?

[i41Overlord]

Travelling at speeds of up to 130km/hr (80mph), these teams will race from Austin Texas to Calgary Alberta all with no non-reusable energy.

I'll give $5 to the first person who can figure out how to reuse the sun after it goes out.

And oil is solar energy, it's just stored and packaged by nature.

i call shenanigans

[Anonymous Coward]

There is no state east of the Mississippi River with 75mph speed limits.

Re:That's Queen's University, not Queens' Universi

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow, you've already proved my comment on Waterloo grads being arrogant! Now it seems they go out of their way to take little wankers straight out of highschool.

Re:WTF? - Entropy!

[silicon not in the v]

"It's *very* hard on engine parts, which is why you can't just bolt on a turbocharger to any old existing motor and expect it to last very long."

Well, I just read the wikipedia entry about superchargers and turbochargers, and they said this:

Boosting has made something of a comeback in recent years due largely to the increased quality of the alloys and machining of modern engines. Boosting used to be an effective way to dramatically shorten an engine's life but, today, there is considerable overdesign possible with modern materials and boosting is no longer a serious reliability concern.

So it's not as damaging these days because of better quality engines that can handle the pressure. Also, there are different sizes of turbos, so for a small engine that wasn't originally intended to have a turbo, it could probably handle a small turbo that doesn't provide too much boost.

Re:That's Queen's University, not Queens' Universi

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes because everyone is won over a school due to its flashy publications and generous scholarships. Queen's and U of Toronto are great schools, but they do not compare to Waterloo's Engineering. Heck I was on a random train to Toronto once for a conference I was attending, and the man sitting next to me got to talking about universities, and mention explicitly how Waterloo is a great engineering school. He's an IT engineer for banks. Come on, a math contest? I take the math contests, but never seriously. I'm just speaking from the point of view of someone UNBIASED as I have not attended ANY university up to this point. Why would I want to go to Waterloo or Queen's? I just want to go to the BEST, and that was Waterloo. I'm so sure someone who has already been at a university can tell you if it sucks or not compared to OTHER universities. What kind of logic is that, man?