Power Armor For the Elderly

aicrules writes "The question of how to care for the growing number of people in the upper age bracket has a new answer - assistive power armor for the elderly." From the article: "The sleek, high-tech get-up looks like a white suit of armor. It straps onto a person's arms, legs and back and is equipped with a computer, motors and sensors that detect electric nerve signals transmitted from the brain when a person tries to move his limbs. When the sensors detect the nerve signals, the computer starts up the relevant motors to assist the person's motions. Sankai says the suit, dubbed 'Hybrid Assistive Limb (HAL) 5,' can let a person who can barely do an 176-pound leg press handle 397 pounds."

Comments

Please, put down your weapon

[TPIRman]

In Korea, only old people are Robocop.

Re:Please, put down your weapon

[N3Roaster]

And to think, they named it after a computer that went insane.

Re:Please, put down your weapon

[slash.dt]

In Korea, only old people are Robocop

Since when was Korea in Japan?

Re:Please, put down your weapon

[dadioflex]

It's Japan. A bit sad really - the message I got is that we're never going to retire from the daily grind of paid employment, we're just going to get strapped into increasingly more powerful waldos until our bodies finally give up and they've no choice but to spoon our brain straight into some robot's noggin.

Re:Please, put down your weapon

[YeEntrancemperium]

Yes, it will happen. Don't fall for it, seriously. If (when) the Earth dies, you will be begging for the sun to explode, just so you can die.

Re:Please, put down your weapon

[mesach]

I'm sorry Dave, I cannot let you shoot Clarence Bottiger.

Re:Please, put down your weapon

[pintomp3]

but in soviet russia, linux runs your grandfather.

Re:Please, put down your weapon

[DrSkwid]

get with the memes

Re:Please, put down your weapon

[scupper]

Overheard at the Triskelion Cafe , year 5406...

Bidder 1: 20,000 Quatloos that the Sun won't explode

Bidder 2: I'll match and raise you 10K Quatloos that he's one of those freaks that got his brains spooned into a Macintosh aquarium.

Re:Please, put down your weapon

[Harodotus]

Your ST:TOS references frighten me...

Personally I'd be more interested in fluctuations in the Quatloo to GPL (Gold Pressed Latinum) rates.

Re:Please, put down your weapon

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow... when I read the article description, I thought they were describing stormtrooper armor. I guess we'll have to stick with old-fasioned Darth Vader costumes.

Re:Please, put down your weapon

[Alpha_Traveller]

This just in:

"Now that old people have been provided with this outstanding exo-skeleton, I believe churches and other organizations should purchase one of these for each of our elderly. Consequently, we are increasing the retirement age of our elderly to 95. Clearly they are now capable of serving others and will be less of a drain on Social Security."
-GW Bush

Power Armer?

[alfrin]

I don't trust old people with driving none-the-less built in computer suit.
Please, think reasonably before making things in the future...

Re:Power Armer?

[Anonymous Coward]

Let's just hope the company that builds these types of things doesn't use surplus military computers as the controllers.

Oh noes!

[Anonymous Coward]

Now we have to be wary of an army of mecha-geriatrics!

Re:Oh noes!

[Nogami_Saeko]

Mecha-grampa will be able to whoop some ass when the damn kids are on the lawn!

N.

Re:Oh noes!

[jacksonj04]

Yes, but do you really think they'll be able to change the batteries or plug it into the mains?

Muscles

[$exyNerdie]

That's going to make their already weak muscles weaker.Muscles grow on consisten application of resistance....

Re:Muscles

[kfg]

Just reverse the polarity and make them do a 397 pound leg press to take a step.

KFG

Re:Muscles

[Sj0]

If you're at the point where you need it, odds are this is not going to cause more harm than good.

But, I'm in the prime of my life, and I have no problems saying this: I WANT ONE!!!

Re:Muscles

[slash.dt]

That's going to make their already weak muscles weaker.Muscles grow on consisten application of resistance..

It's augmentation of the muscles, not complete replacement of them. I expect that there will be the ability to select how much muscle use is needed.

Re:Muscles

[ozmanjusri]

That's going to make their already weak muscles weaker.Muscles grow on consisten application of resistance.

It doesn't have to. You could dial in as much resistance as you want. Consistency is important to frail people, and often fear of injury dissuades them from any exercise at all. This would help.

Re:Muscles

[krunk4ever]

i've always wondered, if you lifted imaginary weights, but you put a lot of energy into trying to lift it, meaning you can actually see my arm shaking trying to lift this imaginary weight, how much exercise am i doing? is it really the same as lifting 0lbs? i mean, you can be sweating lifting imaginary weights. i know that the resistance isn't there, but much works is my body doing when imagining resistance and my body against it?

Re:Muscles

[Chiralhydra]

There was a study done a while back where some people lifted little finger weights, some did nothing, and some imagined lifting finger weights. The people actually doing the weights increased strength by 30% or so (IIRC), and the people imagining it increased by 20%, with no effect for the controls. Apparently it stengthens the nerve pathways that control the muscle, thereby allowing stronger signals to get through. So, there ya go, imagination can make you stronger! :D

Re:Muscles

[dabigpaybackski]

If you use your own muscles' tension to create resistance to a given motion, as in say a military press, you can build strength in the same muscle groups as with the traditional, weighted equivalent, but in my experience it's wasted effort compared to just lifting heavy weights with low repetitions, or the more difficult bodyweight exercises like one-armed pushups and one-legged squats.

These latter two types of strength exercises are more efficient strength builders than pure tension exercises like the one you describe because they are less apt to "burn out" the muscles when done properly. Believe me, I used to do kung-fu type tension exercises as a kid and I can say they accomplished very little for the amount of effort I put into them. They're more of a supplement to real training.

Get Pavel Tsatsouine's book, The Naked Warrior, and start practicing the bodyweight exercises if you don't want to use weights--you'll be a believer in no time.

Re:Muscles

[davebo]

Muscles grow on consistent application of resistance...

Unless, of course, you happen to suffer from a degenerative muscle disease, in which case no matter how much you exercise your muscles get weaker.

This kind of power assist device could be a godsend for folks in that condition, wouldn't you agree?

Re:Muscles

[Tacky the Penguin]

If the person is too weak to lift his own body for very long, he is getting very little exercise. If, however, this device allows him to move around for an extended period of time, he'll be getting more exercise.

It isn't a new concept. People who are too weak to handle normal exercise often use water aerobics.

Re:Muscles

[BewireNomali]

Right... I was thinking about it as controlled dial-in resistance as well. I can imagine that you can use it to work out with as well. Dial in resistance, and do arm curls against the exoskeleton. Same with the legs in a seated position; just switch into workout mode and have an incremental resistance program that is always with you.

What has happened to Slashdot?

[Anonymous Coward]

The sleek, high-tech get-up looks like a white suit of armor.

For Christ's sake, it looks like the starting point for a storm trooper costume. What's this "white suit of armor" nonsense?

Re:What has happened to Slashdot?

[CSMastermind]

Oh no it's much worse than storm troopers. Suits that amplify strength? Gee why didn't I think of that.....maybe because it's existed in science fiction for years. Do you honestly think it will be long after someone perfects one of these before we're deploying troops with combat suits? How long before we have freakin mechs? Like every science fiction writer on the planet didn't see this coming.

Re:What has happened to Slashdot?

[Firethorn]

I doubt that 'mecha' per say will make an appearance.

Battlesuits, yes. But mechs that you pilot? Not a good shape for them, actually. Treads are better.

Re:What has happened to Slashdot?

[Andrew Tanenbaum]

I think bipedal robots would be a lot more versatile - how do you jump over a large obstacle just with treads?
Maybe a hybrid would be best, where the robot could kneel into your most familiar position and have treads from the knees to the feet.

Re:What has happened to Slashdot?

[Bob of Dole]

I think bipedal robots would be a lot more versatile - how do you jump over a large obstacle just with treads?

Ever seen a tank get knocked over? :)

Bipedal locomotion is just too damn unstable. If you REALLY want something with legs for rough terrain, build a spider. (Ever seen a spider trip and fall over?)
If you're going for a budget model, cut it down to six legs. Think "cockroach".

But two legs is just silly. Way too easy to knock over (Even without people shooting at you! What's your unsteady mech gonna do when a tank shell hits in in the head? Answer: It'll fall right over)

It's damn hard to stand and move around on two legs, it took me years to figure it out :)

So, no. Mechs may look cool in animes, but I'm doubting we'll see any in real life.

(If I was in charge of military spending and you come to me with mech designs, I'd kick you out of my office and order 20 tanks instead.)

Re:What has happened to Slashdot?

[Anonymous Coward]

Ever seen a tank climb a flight of stairs? :P

Arguably it could just level the whole building, but think of the 'shock and awe' value of kicking a door in with a mech!

Besides the tank is totally toast when the mech pops out from behind cover or from crawling through uneven terrain and smokes it with its Gauss rifle or PPC. heh.

Re:What has happened to Slashdot?

[colinrichardday]

Well, yeah, if PPC is so cool, then why is Apple switching over to Intel? :-)

Also, the problem with legs is those damn kids with their tow-cable enhanced speeders.

Re:What has happened to Slashdot?

[BewireNomali]

I agree. Treads or some hovering mechanism to obviate terrain issues. But bipedal? naahh. Specialized moving parts, too many points of failure, readily exposed weak points. You can probably deploy cheap UAVS by the dozens for the cost of one mech. Swarming hordes.

Re:What has happened to Slashdot?

[Mycroft_VIII]

As cool as a bipedal mech would be I'd have to add in against serious deployment.
The cube square problem kicks in and the stresses the legs have to take grow all out of proportion to the size.
It's like why all the b-grade sci-fi movies with ants and such twice the size of a vw beetle (eigther version) are bs.
I seem to remember reading some where that the first time a veritech takes a step it'd break it's legs from shearing stress or some such if it wasn't made out of something many times stronger than anything we'd invented yet (read in the late nineties).
I'd still like one though.

Mycroft

Good god!

[Anonymous Coward]

This is one of the worst ideas i've ever heard!

This is so cool

[pintpusher]

I can't wait til I'm Elderly!

Re:This is so cool

[Dirtside]

I can't wait til I'm Elderly!

Well, you're going to have to. :)

Is anyone else thinking super soldiers?

[synthex]

It's a great concept, but can anyone see anything other than cost per suit preventing this being used as an aid for modern soldiers? With modification, obviously. Then they just need to teach the soldiers bad one liners ('Time to take out ze trash') and we have a super soldier/Arnold hybrid!

Re:Is anyone else thinking super soldiers?

[TheBurningDog]

Personally, I was thinking Brotherhood of Steel.

Re:Is anyone else thinking super soldiers?

[Tezkah]

Can anyone see anything other than cost per suit preventing this being used as an aid for modern soldiers

No, which is exactly why and what for: to enable soldiers to carry more armour and dish out more firepower.

Don't think for a moment that military applications of super-strength will mean Superman-style punching villains in the face. It won't. Ever.

However a major topic throughough the last century has been the weight of ammo and equipment a soldier has to carry. It's a real issue. That's one of the reasons (among other factors) why we've moved to smaller calibres.

Put some powered armour on those soldiers and suddenly they can carry a lot more heavy weaponry and ammo.

Individual armour has also been discarded precisely because of weight considerations: you _could_ make a breastplate that could stop a rifle round, but it was impractically heavy.

Now think the other way around: if you have an armoured exo-skeleton, you can carry enough armour at least over the vital organs to stop even a 7.62mm round or shrapnel from hand grenades and pipe bombs. _And_ this time it's without a mobility penalty.

You've just made life harder for the enemy soldiers, because now they need to lug around bigger weaponry to take you out, which limits _their_ mobility.

But perhaps more importantly, and this is really what makes it a wet dream for the military is: enabling soldiers to carry more electronics and a sattellite connection. Giving at least one soldier per squad enough electronics to know exactly where the enemy is, what's happening, where is the squad needed, what should they avoid, etc, is something that can give a _huge_ advantage.

Nations have been defeated before because basically their chain of command didn't react fast enough. E.g., that's why large armies like those of France or Poland crumbled in the face of Blitzkrieg in WW2. They just weren't prepared to react at that speed.

Or the USSR in WW2 was massively handicapped by their lack of radios on their tanks.

Now picture giving each squad a direct link to their officers _all_ the time. Bidirectional. You can know _exactly_ what's happening at each point, in real time, and the soldiers can know exactly what's expected of them. You can instantly see when your troops are being pinned and flanked, and how, and you can tell them exactly how to counter it. Better yet they too can see a bigger picture and react in a more intelligent manner - By copying and pasting from old slashdot stories.

It's something that can really make or break a battle.

Re:Is anyone else thinking super soldiers?

[abandonment]

you think that 30 grand per suit is going to be considered a downside to an Army that already spends thousands of dollars for a Shovel or Canteen (in 2005-halliburton-adjusted dollars)?

Especially considering that the average US Footsoldier is expected to carry between 70-100 lbs of gear into combat, including laptop computers and countless other techno-devices...

If i was a grunt in the army, i'd want one of these just so i didn't HAVE to actually lug all that crap into battle - at least not exerting 100% of my energy in simply carry my kit...

I read that the new US combat rifle is supposed to cost around 7,000 per rifle - what's another 30 for an armoured suit for the soldiers...and since it already helps adjust for the weight being carried - adding kevlar armour and a super-robo cop infrared/nightvision helmet synced up via gps & awacs situational intelligence isn't too far off...

scary...

Re:Is anyone else thinking super soldiers?

[king-manic]

Now picture giving each squad a direct link to their officers _all_ the time. Bidirectional. You can know _exactly_ what's happening at each point, in real time, and the soldiers can know exactly what's expected of them. You can instantly see when your troops are being pinned and flanked, and how, and you can tell them exactly how to counter it. Better yet they too can see a bigger picture and react in a more intelligent manner - By copying and pasting from old slashdot stories.


Some soldiers(Marines) could handle it, your average US grunt could not. US soldiers aren't known to be the sharpest stick in the shed, thats why other armies ridicule you guys for havign each grunt do exactly one job. Because thier not bright enough to drive a jeep and do laundry...

Re:Is anyone else thinking super soldiers?

[kylemonger]

30 grand won't get you the mil-spec version. Instead of ordnance the enemy will shower your soldiers with Loctite, turning them into well-armed statues. Or they'll use microwaves to induce currents in your electronics, again turning your soldier into a statue. By the time you harden your systems enough to survive on the battlefield, you might as well build a tank.

Re:Is anyone else thinking super soldiers?

[Martin Blank]

That's been scaled back to two at most per squad, partially because of the cost. The standard infantryman will still be armed with an M16 variant.

Re:Is anyone else thinking super soldiers?

[Anonymous Coward]

hell, might as well build a 50 cal rifle into each arm and program it to be an aimbot.

"impressive! excellent! HUMILIATION!"

Re:Is anyone else thinking super soldiers?

[pintomp3]

or... would could give peace a chance. i know, fat chance. too much money to be made from the self-propagating war machine.

Re:Is anyone else thinking super soldiers?

[KDR_11k]

You'll probably see only one or two full "Space Marines" per squad, the rest might have a few cybernetic joints (soldiers carry most of the weight on their torso so you'd only need to reinforce the legs and back) or nothing at all. At least for grunt troops, obviously there'll be a few hightech units that have all soldiers in Space Marine armor with specialist training.

Re:Is anyone else thinking super soldiers?

[bobbis.u]

Individual armour has also been discarded precisely because of weight considerations: you _could_ make a breastplate that could stop a rifle round, but it was impractically heavy.

This story and video show that American soldiers are currently using body armour that can stop rifle rounds. Although it doesn't say so anywhere, the sniper rifle was almost certainly 7.62mm. Here are some pictures of the aftermath: image 1 image 2.

You are correct however that the armour is pretty heavy, but that is less of an issue for vehicle based soldiers rather than pure infantry.

However, the problem with this powered exo-skeleton is that just the act of adding more weight, even if it is "self supporting", makes the soldier slower and less mobile (because of extra inertia). They need to be able to react very quickly and be able to dive to the ground, and jump behind cover, etc. There is a very long way to go before projects like this would actually improve a soldiers chances of survival. A better short term prospect is to continue to improve body armour to make it lighter.

Re:Is anyone else thinking super soldiers?

[jimi the hippie]

"that's why large armies like those of France or Poland crumbled in the face of Blitzkrieg in WW2."

HAHAHAHA..... sure it is...

Re:Is anyone else thinking super soldiers?

[I_Human]

I may just be an average US grunt but I can drive the HMMWV and get my laundry done, while spelling "they're" correctly.

Re:Is anyone else thinking super soldiers?

[Anonymous Coward]

Your post advocates a

(x) technical ( ) legislative ( ) market-based (x) vigilante

approach to changing global society. Your idea will not work. Here is why it won't work. (One or more of the following may apply to your particular idea, and it may have other flaws which used to vary from state to state before a bad federal law was passed.)

( ) Spammers can easily use it to harvest email addresses
( ) Mailing lists and other legitimate email uses would be affected
( ) No one will be able to find the guy or collect the money
( ) It is defenseless against brute force attacks
( ) It will stop spam for two weeks and then we'll be stuck with it
( ) Users of email will not put up with it
( ) Microsoft will not put up with it
( ) The police will not put up with it
( ) Requires too much cooperation from spammers
(x) Requires immediate total cooperation from everybody at once
( ) Many email users cannot afford to lose business or alienate potential employers
( ) Spammers don't care about invalid addresses in their lists
( ) Anyone could anonymously destroy anyone else's career or business

Re:Is anyone else thinking super soldiers?

[iamatlas]

Don't think for a moment that military applications of super-strength will mean Superman-style punching villains in the face. It won't. Ever.

You, Sir, are wrong, and have obviously never played the docu-game Splinter Cell.

Re:Is anyone else thinking super soldiers?

[Bitwaba]

You can know _exactly_ what's happening at each point, in real time, and the soldiers can know exactly what's expected of them. You can instantly see when your troops are being pinned and flanked, and how, and you can tell them exactly how to counter it.

Yeah, we all know. The real question is if Infested Kerrigan is going to be able to muster up the remnants of the Zerg forces and defeat Jim Raynor and the Protoss in the sequal.

Re:Is anyone else thinking super soldiers?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why is it that I immediately started thinking MechWarrior after I read your post?
If you are going to have the "armor" as well as the neuro-interface, why even have the soldier in the armor at all? "Remote-controlled" robots is the new thing the Air Force is working on http://www.darpa.mil/j-ucas/>. No need for the logistics of food or water as well as not putting our soldiers lives in danger. Just use the interface and transmit the computer signals via sattelite to the robots on the ground. Then make the robots as big, tough, and with as much firepower as you want.

Atrivis

Re:Is anyone else thinking super soldiers?

[Anonymous Coward]

By copying and pasting from old slashdot stories.
Nicely done.

Re:Is anyone else thinking super soldiers?

[biobogonics]

can anyone see anything other than cost per suit preventing this being used as an aid for modern soldiers

It also helps fend off giant butt ugly aliens with acid for blood!

Re:Is anyone else thinking super soldiers?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey, mister karma whore:

here's the comment you stole from to get your +5. Are you proud of me for finding it, or ashamed of yourself for being found out? Maybe I should just repost that the next time this topic comes up, eh?

You even kept the same misspelling: "sattellite".

Anyway, come up with your own ideas next time. Nobody likes you.

Re:Is anyone else thinking super soldiers?

[Tim C]

However, the problem with this powered exo-skeleton is that just the act of adding more weight, even if it is "self supporting", makes the soldier slower and less mobile (because of extra inertia).

Newton's Second Law states that F = ma - that is, the applied force and resultant acceleration are proportional. Increase the mass, and increase the force, and the acceleration remains the same.

No, a soldier couldn't hope to be as nimble laden down with all this crap if he had to rely on his muscles, but that's the point - he wouldn't ahve to. The exo-skeleton would provide the necessary power to drive the thing just as quickly.

Re:Is anyone else thinking super soldiers?

[Kevin108]

Old people can barely control the wheel and two pedals of their Cadillacs. Do we really need to make Mechwarriors out of them?

Re:Is anyone else thinking super soldiers?

[Anonymous Coward]

"Nations have been defeated before because basically their chain of command didn't react fast enough. E.g., that's why large armies like those of France or Poland crumbled in the face of Blitzkrieg in WW2. They just weren't prepared to react at that speed." - by Tezkah (771144) on Saturday July 23, @03:18AM

Who was? Hitler was delivering his promises to his people - he DID deliver a better economy, work/jobs for everyone, & a better life. History may paint him as a psycho etc. but the point is?? He DID keep his promises to his own! The victors can write the history books any way they wish to about the vanquished, but the truth of that matter IS that - he did make the german people a better life, & a proud germany again.

How?

By creating a "war economy" since seizing power in 1933 & building what @ the time, was a futuristic & highly mechanized & technical "war machine" effort.

By the time he got around to attacking Poland in 1933, BY SURPRISE?

Nobody was ready for it. He created a COLOSSUS of a war machine ready to attack.

Consider it this way, on a personal level - if you were to start lifting weights RIGHT NOW, take creatine/roids, etc. (whatever) & go @ it for a decade?

You'd be a personally 'devastating force' yourself vs. most other people. One most folks could NOT defeat based on physicality alone & especially if you walked up to them & sucker punched them (probably instant knock-out power too).

Nations/societies aren't THAT much diff. than viewing them as individual people really imo. Hence, why something like sociology is called the psychology of societies & why I used that comparison.

"Or the USSR in WW2 was massively handicapped by their lack of radios on their tanks." - by Tezkah (771144) on Saturday July 23, @03:18AM

Yea, until the Russians pulled on Hitler's armies exactly almost to the letter what they did to Napoleon - drag you in, during their winters, & keep retreating... deeper & deeper.

Then, come around your back from behind & cut your throat because the nazis from what I understood, didn't know enough to drain the oil from their tanks @ nightfall & keep the oil heated over a fire & then pour it back into the tank when it needed to be started.

Failing to do that?

The oil in their motors froze to the consistency of frozen honey, & they couldn't even START the damn things...

This effectively crippled their mechanized forces.

The russians have their winters & terrain defending them & always have! History & Napoleon, again, showed this... the nazi's didn't pay attention to it.

Hitler wasn't listening to his commanders... they told him, "let's hold off until spring, they are used to this cold & snow environment, we are not"

BUT, afaik, Hitler wanted the Russian Capital for his b-day, & told them "keep going", & all he got was a devastated force out of it.

APK

Re:Is anyone else thinking super soldiers?

[garudasun]

These super soldiers would be the ideal elite task force. A small team could be dropped into a battle zone without the need to land the chopper or cargo plane. All the would need is air sleds to give them drag. The suits would absorb the rest of the impact. This kind of delivery and mobility would be ideal in urban combat scenarios.

Also, they may not manuever in for hand to hand in these suits, but moving wreckage and other large heavy obstacles would be an added advantage to any unit in the field. The term that comes to my mind is a "heavy" with a bona fide BFG attached to every unit.

Re:Is anyone else thinking super soldiers?

[king-manic]

I may just be an average US grunt but I can drive the HMMWV and get my laundry done, while spelling "they're" correctly.

Your an average military grunt, and I'm dyslexic and have poor writing skills when I don't double check.

It's a comment on the structure as well as the average competence of your military. A lot of your allies are still upset over the "friendly fire" incidents we get when operating with you.

Re:Is anyone else thinking super soldiers?

[Salis]

Ah, but he did not say accelleration. He said inertia. He's referring to the conservation of momentum.

For example, before and after a collision or some other change in force the momentum of the body is conserved. m1v1 = m2v2 (assuming fully elastic; m = mass, v = velocity). If the soldier is running and suddenly needs to stop, he will have a lot of inertia. Diving to the ground might break his back. Changing direction while mid-stride would also pose a challenge.

Re:Is anyone else thinking super soldiers?

[Anonymous Coward]

I linked to that post at the end of the post above. Should I be proud of you for clicking the link that says "Better yet they too can see a bigger picture and react in a more intelligent manner - By copying and pasting from old slashdot stories."?

Do you really think thats trying to karma whore? No, its making fun of slashdot for posting dupes. The fact that it gets moderated as "insightful" and not "funny" is a problem on the part of the moderators not reading the whole comment. :)

Re:Is anyone else thinking super soldiers?

[HiThere]

Is this then heavy infantry or light calvary?

Historically heavy calvary didn't eliminate the need for light calvary, and heavy infantry didn't eliminate the need for light infantry. Expect this to continue, with technical mods...and interesting changes. E.g., how far can this go before it needs refueling?

Re:Is anyone else thinking super soldiers?

[nten]

As long as the assistance it provides is strong enough to compensate for the increase in inertia it would be fine. But they hid the mass of it when they used the leg press statistic. Only the mass of the leg units would be fighting you on a leg press. I'd prefer to see how much of a boost it provides on a squat, to get an idea of its mass/strength ratio.

Re:Is anyone else thinking super soldiers?

[Tejin]

Dude, Poland lost because they were still using cavalry at the time.

Re:Is anyone else thinking super soldiers?

[I_Human]

Some interesting articles I found looking up friendly fire:

Reader's Companion to Military History
World War 2 Friendly fire
Amicide (Study by US Military)
CBC Article on friendly fire in Iraq

You raise a good point that there are far too many friendly fire incidents in our military. I would venture to say it is due to overworking the individual soldier and not a lack of competence. Also friendly fire has been around for a long time and will never fully disappear, it is a fact of war.

My grammar is crap and if someone were to look over even this post I'm sure I've made a few glaring mistakes, but I do find it humorous to open your comment with "your" when "you're" is more appropriate.

Re:Is anyone else thinking super soldiers?

[king-manic]

Some interesting articles I found looking up friendly fire:

Reader's Companion to Military History
World War 2 Friendly fire
Amicide (Study by US Military)
CBC Article on friendly fire in Iraq

You raise a good point that there are far too many friendly fire incidents in our military. I would venture to say it is due to overworking the individual soldier and not a lack of competence. Also friendly fire has been around for a long time and will never fully disappear, it is a fact of war.

My grammar is crap and if someone were to look over even this post I'm sure I've made a few glaring mistakes, but I do find it humorous to open your comment with "your" when "you're" is more appropriate.


I'm a child of the new education system. The content is alright, but the structure is lacking in my writing.

I agree, it's partly over work. It's also poor leadership, military intelligence, and the fact that a lot of the lower echelon of the military comes from the undereducated and disadvantaged who are naturally less competent then say the Isreali army which are made up partly of mandatory reserves and a lot of very very competent professional soldiers.

Overwork/Leadership/Military intelligence are all failings of the brass, while the composition of the ranks has more to do with demographics and the in-ability of the army to appeal to other segments of society. The machine still works as a whole, they compensate for having sub par soldiers by having vastly supurior equipment and the best logistics of any army on earth. They simply out supply the opponents and have a well fed, well dressed but less competent men. Being hungry, tired, and dirty does make a difference in war.

Re:Is anyone else thinking super soldiers?

[BewireNomali]

I'm just thinking that here we're talking about the seamless integration of the soldier and the exoskeleton. I can imagine that the bulkiness of the unit itself might preclude certain movements completely.

But the assumption here, (and I'm not a physicist or engineer) is that there has to be minimal lag between the soldier's reactions and the reaction time of the exoskeleton in order to realistically move as quickly as one would without the armor. So in order for there to be no drop-off in reaction time, the lag between soldier X's reaction and the reaction of his exoskeleton would have to be zero, which seems unlikely.

So I can imagine that if soldier X has a top running speed of 15 miles an hour, he'd still be able to reach a top speed of 15 miles an hour with an extra hundred pounds of stuff on his back. But what would his 0 to 15 be? And does it even matter?

Re:Is anyone else thinking super soldiers?

[king-manic]

You raise a good point that there are far too many friendly fire incidents in our military. I would venture to say it is due to overworking the individual soldier and not a lack of competence. Also friendly fire has been around for a long time and will never fully disappear, it is a fact of war.


You are right though, friendly fire is fairly common in the history of war. I agree, and any given soldier is more competent at his job then I would be. They do a nessacary job. I respect US soldiers as much as the canadian ones. I don't want to give you the impression I'm anti-american or anti-soldier. I'm just trying to say the "single" job us soldiers tend not to be able to handle too many inputs. Their better with simplier instructions and less complication. So a armoured suit with real time feed from 16 different people would be about as helpful as noobies using mic's in Counter Strike. Mass chaos and lots of confusing information and instructions.

Re:Is anyone else thinking super soldiers?

[BewireNomali]

wait, you can just build it to compensate for expected reaction time lags, etc. and it won't be an issue.

Re:Is anyone else thinking super soldiers?

[I_Human]

I agree with your points as well, it just rankled my chain (the stupid grunt comment). I would expect more mistakes out of Army grunts than their marine counterparts also. After reading your last return post I lost the impression of anti-american/soldier. Being a medic I tend to get a more broad overview of the conflict than most of my infantry buddies of the same rank, and your CS analogy works pretty well for them I think as they need to concentrate. Anyway I think we've gotten far enough off topic (of geriatrics running around in mech suits ;) so I'll let this one drop!

Re:Is anyone else thinking super soldiers?

[Anonymous Coward]

so, what's wrong with that?

Re:Is anyone else thinking super soldiers?

[abandonment]

at least for starters - they would carry the heavy gear - much like the heavy weapons specialists currently...

things like mortars and anti-tank (anti-robot) weaponry and so on

Re:Is anyone else thinking super soldiers?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes.
Reliability, especially in harsh environments, durability, performance, and last but not at all least, batteries.

The power supply will probably be the most difficult problem to solve. A possible solution might be the methane or butane-driven fuel cells. A field refuelling kit might then consist of a couple cans of beans and a tube. Four to eight hours after eating the beans you shove one end of the tube up... well you get the idea.

Re:Is anyone else thinking super soldiers?

[Anonymous Coward]

Way to go superman. He fucking cited the original source with a direct link at the bottom of his post. Or maybe you missed it while masturbating all over yourself trying to find people to pick on. Fucking slashbot comic book guy wanna-be...

Re:Is anyone else thinking super soldiers?

[Mycroft_VIII]

I dunno, I would think copying from previous slashdot stories could have the opposite effect, Especially if they accidently copy from a goat.cx link or gnaa troll.

Mycroft

Re:Is anyone else thinking super soldiers?

[aug24]

A better short term prospect is to continue to improve body armour to make it lighter.

Or stop starting wars ;-p

J.

Re:Is anyone else thinking super soldiers?

[LifesABeach]

There is a question that bubbling up from my mind, "Given a Power Suit, What will be the 'Power' Supply?"

Re:Is anyone else thinking super soldiers?

[Chibi Merrow]

That would be best for all those involved. But someone apparently sees a profit in starting wars by blowing up Americans... And as long as that's the case the US military will need to find better ways to protect its soldiers. And better ways to blow up those who would like to blow up Americans, natch.

Re:Is anyone else thinking super soldiers?

[aug24]

No, no, no. Stop listening to Bush and start thinking instead.

Say after me: the war in Iraq has nothing whatsoever to do with 911. None of the bombers had any connection with Saddam Hussein or Iraq. Most of them were from a country the US considers an ally (even though it is a dictatorship with a poor human rights record).

J.

Re:Is anyone else thinking super soldiers?

[Chibi Merrow]

I never said anything about 9/11. Why are you bringing it up?

The problem w/ state sponsored terrorism and radical Islam didn't start w/ 9/11 and it won't stop w/ Iraq.

I am thinking. You're the one that seems to be missing the big picture.

Re:Is anyone else thinking super soldiers?

[aug24]

I never said anything about 9/11

You referred specifically to 'starting wars by blowing up Americans'. What on earth else were you referring to?

J.

Re:Is anyone else thinking super soldiers?

[Chibi Merrow]

Well if I had to pick a start to the war w/ Islamic terror I'd probably say Beirut in 1983. Though really it's been going on longer than that. 9/11 is just when we decided to start doing something about it. There was Beirut in 1983, the Achille Lauro & Rome & Vienna in 1985, the West Berlin Disco in 1986, the Pan-Am flight at Lockerbie in 1988, the first World Trade Center attack in 1993, Riyadh in 1995, Khobar Towers in 1996, the embassy bombings in 1998 and the USS Cole in 2000. All that before 9/11. 9/11 just convinced us that it was time to do something about all those loose ends, like Saddam Hussein.

Re:Is anyone else thinking super soldiers?

[aug24]

Well googled.

You're still wrong. Starting speculative wars against third parties with no solid and visible link to any campaign of action is only going to make more people all over the middle east and elsewhere hate and attack the US (and UK - thanks to our idiot for following your idiot).

Justin.

Re:Is anyone else thinking super soldiers?

[Chibi Merrow]

Well I will admit to googling for the years, but the events I already knew. Especially Beirut and Khobar as family friends were killed in both instances.

As far as links between Iraq and terrorism, there were plenty. Paying off suicide bombers' families in Israel, harboring known terrorists, running training camps, etc. Saddam was also a loose end that should have been dealt with during the first Gulf War, not left to foment and torture his people and threaten the region.

As far as the attacks being a response to war: Islam was attacking the US irregardless of any involvement in wars in the Middle East, and freeing millions of people in Iraq from tyrrany is not the cause of any attacks against Western Nations. The threat of democracy spreading in the Middle East is what's gotten terrorists up in arms.

As long as the average Muslim in the Middle East is convinced his life sucks because Israel exists and is taught that God smiles upon people who blow themselves up to kill non-Muslims, terrorism will be a problem. Sticking our fingers in our ears and shutting our eyes and pretending the problem will go away didn't work for fifty years. The only thing that will work is taking the bull by the horns and freeing the people in the Middle East from despotism and tyrrany. Liberty is contagious.

Mayhaps you need to read Winston Churchill's thoughts on Islam from his experiences dealing w/ it in Africa... Much like Naziism, he seemed to be far ahead of the curve when it came to understanding the problems it presents.

Re:Is anyone else thinking super soldiers?

[aug24]

average Muslim in the Middle East

Wahabism Delenda Est

Strange... you understand that extreme belief groups are responsible for terrorism, yet describe the average muslim in a way which I think is utterly wrong to the point of foolishness. The average Muslim is simply not taught that 'God smiles upon people who blow themselves up to kill non-Muslims'. What makes you think that is the case?

I will have to disagree with you on the best way to stop terrorism. As far as I can see, the events of the last two years have massively increased the danger from terrorism, recruited thousands to the 'cause' and done nothing whatsoever to reduce the problem. They did however, play well in the recent election campaign, although it appears the US public is wising up.

J.

Re:Is anyone else thinking super soldiers?

[Chibi Merrow]

The average Muslim is simply not taught that 'God smiles upon people who blow themselves up to kill non-Muslims'. What makes you think that is the case?

That sadly is the case in much of the Middle East. They either believe that suicide bombers are justified in what they do OR they believe that, in fact, it's secretly the Jews and the US pretending to be suicide bombers who are doing the killing, as is the case in Egypt. When people like the new President of Iran (one of the terrorists who held the American embassy workers hostage) stop being looked up to as leaders in the Middle East, you might have a chance of convincing me otherwise.

While Wahabiism is the problem we face, until Islam as a whole is willing to deal with it like Christianity excised the Inquisition from its ranks so long ago it will be part of the problem. As long as every Imam follows every proclamation 'condemning' terrorism as 'anti-Islamic' with a 'But...' they'll be part of the problem.

I will have to disagree with you on the best way to stop terrorism.

Dead terrorists don't kill people. This is irrefutable.

As far as I can see, the events of the last two years have massively increased the danger from terrorism, recruited thousands to the 'cause' and done nothing whatsoever to reduce the problem.

Then you've got blinders on. A populace that is aware that it is under attack is much less likely to be caught off guard and much more likely to deal with the problem. That if nothing else reduces the danger of terrorism today. The war hasn't recruited anyone to the 'cause' that didn't already believe in it. It just gave them a convenient drive-in location to be killed, instead of leaving them to plot and plan and come to the US to kill us.

What it has done is brought thousands of Iraqis around to the point that they're actively killing the Saudis, Syrians, and Iranians that are crossing the borders to blow them up. What it has done is kicked off efforts for democratic reform in surrounding nations. What it has done is put despots on notice, so that even old hard-liners like Gadafhi are giving up their ways and Syria has pulled out of Lebanon after decades of control, abuse, and assassination of their political rivals giving the Lebanese people a real chance at self government. Has it cooled the flames of seething hatred that already existed in the Middle East? Of course not. We're not in the business of befriending those who would kill us--we're there to destroy them.

although it appears the US public is wising up.

As if you're 'co.uk' domain were not enough indication, this is an excellent indication of the fact that not only do you not live in the US, but you've obviously not been here recently, and get all your information about US public opinion in the echo chamber of the media. Where in God's name would you get that idea? The only thing the US public is "wising up" about is who our friends are and who's actually looking out for us. If you think that the average American's opinion is turning against the war, you don't know many average Americans.

Re:Is anyone else thinking super soldiers?

[aug24]

Your first para doesn't actually back up your assertion that the average Muslim is taught that suicide bombers are godly. I think this shows your blinkers are on, and your willingness to believe tabloid-style news. I should point out that I, a white Brit, speak (basic) Arabic and have visited the area, and you are just plain wrong, or else speaking only of war areas like Lebanon where all bets are off.

The war hasn't recruited anyone to the 'cause' that didn't already believe in it. It just gave them a convenient drive-in location to be killed, instead of leaving them to plot and plan and come to the US to kill us.

I give up. This is the most absurd, dangerous and downright wrong statement I have heard in ages. You are Don Rumsfeld and I claim my five pounds.

I think you're wrong in every way, and you think I am. We will have to revisit this conversation in ten years. By then, I think history will have judged that the US's international actions (from the strange alliance with Israel to the random military interventions) made the world a much less safe place for all.

J.

Re:Is anyone else thinking super soldiers?

[Chibi Merrow]

I think you're wrong in every way, and you think I am. We will have to revisit this conversation in ten years. By then, I think history will have judged that the US's international actions (from the strange alliance with Israel to the random military interventions) made the world a much less safe place for all.

There were people saying very similar things in my country after WWII. Time magazine for instance.

I can't understand for the life of me what you mean by 'the strange alliance with Israel'. Is there something wrong with supporting a democracy whose neighbors are trying to drive into the sea?

Re:Is anyone else thinking super soldiers?

[Chibi Merrow]

You know, I realized one thing... You've denigrated my thoughts on the matter... But I haven't heard any alternative approach from you. What's your idea for solving the problem w/ Islamic terrorism?

Re:Is anyone else thinking super soldiers?

[aug24]

The UN - generally considered fairly democratic - has had quite a few complaints (resolutions) about Israel, which the US block as much as it can. Read up on it.

Israel has invaded large areas of the Middle East on which it has no claim apart from the Bible(!) and forced the original occupants of Palestine off the only decent land in the area, leaving over a million people living in squalor in an area the size of the Isle of Wight. Who backed them with the weapons and money to do it? The US. I have no idea why, hence referring to it as 'strange'. I know that that action was partly in response to attack by the Arab nations, but taking over the land was never going to help their case or bring peace.

J.

Re:Is anyone else thinking super soldiers?

[aug24]

Aid. Nothing else will ever work. /Especially/ attempting to bomb people into democracy.

I'm not sure that we will ever be able live in a world free of nutters who want to strike out at what they percieve as detestable. I am there, of course, referring to both the dispossed of the Middle East and the current US administration. Both their actions provide re-inforcing feedback to the other and lead us all to hell. As Iain Banks put it, to stop a fight, someone has to be big enough to take the last hit(s) and not hit back.

J.

Re:Is anyone else thinking super soldiers?

[Chibi Merrow]

Actually the action was completely in response to attacks by their Arab neighbors. And the Palestinians who were "forced" off their land in fact fled when said Arab neighbors announced their intention to drive the Jews into the sea, with the intention of coming back when the shooting was done. The problem being the Jews had no intention of going on a permanent swim. There are plenty of Muslims who did not leave when Israel was formed and who live there peacefully with the same rights as a Jewish citizen.

Meanwhile the UN is run by mostly anti-semites who condemn Israel for building a fence to keep out suicide bombers but see no problems whatsoever with the PA supporting people purposely who blow up busses of Israeli schoolchildren. I don't know how any sane person can see Israel as the "bad guy" when the other side is the one purposely blowing up civilians and often their own people (as evidenced in the recent rocket attack).

Re:Is anyone else thinking super soldiers?

[Chibi Merrow]

Aid. Nothing else will ever work.

The problem with your statement is this: Aid has never worked. Can you point to a single instance that it has? I can point to numerous instances where war solved problems.

We've given and still give millions and billions of dollars of aid to them every year. Buying off your enemies never has worked and never will work. How will AID stop the genocide in Darfur? How will AID stop the suicide bombings in Israel? How will AID stop the political assassinations in Lebanon?

Re:Is anyone else thinking super soldiers?

[aug24]

If they were not forced off their land, why are the Israelis not letting them back on it?

J.

Re:Is anyone else thinking super soldiers?

[aug24]

I can think of no occasion ever in the history of the world when *starting* a war solved a problem. In most people's opinions your statement is simply insanse: war is the problem.

Can you tell me one instance in history where one country managed to change another country's system of government by war without permanent occupation? Is I see it, The US has a long record of trying, and none whatsoever of success (Iran, Iraq, Vietnam for starter).

Anyway, no, I really do give up. Trying to bomb someone into democracy is ludicrous, but you'll have to work that one out for yourselves.

J.

Re:Is anyone else thinking super soldiers?

[Chibi Merrow]

Can you tell me one instance in history where one country managed to change another country's system of government by war without permanent occupation?

Guess that depends on your definition of occupation. Do you consider Germany and Japan occupied?

Again, we didn't start the war.

I notice you dodged my question about when aid has ever worked in the past. Because you know it hasn't.

SOmeone has to say it...

[Anonymous Coward]

I, for one, welcome our power-armoured, elderly, overlords.

Re:SOmeone has to say it...

[linzeal]

I don't I'm going to take them out using an EMP device.

Sex performance

[John5788]

Yes it helps elderly with strength, so does it help the older men with sex incase viagra doesn't get it up?

Re:Sex performance

[Anonymous Coward]

Already invented.

Called the strap-on dildo.

Never goes soft.
Can be had with built in vibrator and other options.

Not sure how a man would get pleasure while wearing a strap on, but it'll handle the woman's needs quite nicely, just ask any lesbian. ;-)

Re:Sex performance

[XAlba]

... but it'll handle the woman's needs quite nicely, just ask any lesbian.

Who says it's just lesbians who use vibrators? I know plenty of single girls (and a couple of guys) who love them...

Re:Sex performance

[Anonymous Coward]

You're dumb.

Re:Sex performance

[XAlba]

I can live with that. (At least, I have thus far.)

dupe

[Anonymous Coward]

too lazy to dig it up but believe me it's a dupe

and why is my confirmation text "warfare"?

Re:dupe

[Anonymous Coward]

you were right

Now all we need is...

[Anonymous Coward]

some angsty/whiny 15 year olds to pilot...wait a second, did they say elderly?
Medicaid Gundam...GO!

Re:Now all we need is...

[Anonymous Coward]

Elderly mecha driver?

I'd masturbate by her bedside.

ok.... and then they take it off?

[iamhassi]

this might seem like a good idea, but if they're not using their muscles anymore and this thing does all the work what happens when they take this machine off? Or do they become so dependent on it they can't function without it?

nice..... let's get them hooked on crack while we're at it.

here's another idea. How about they get back in the gym and work on the muscles they already have. Sure they'll never win a strong man competition but at least they can get out of bed without robotic legs.

Re:ok.... and then they take it off?

[Volvogga]

this might seem like a good idea, but if they're not using their muscles anymore and this thing does all the work what happens when they take this machine off? Or do they become so dependent on it they can't function without it?

While your point is valid, it doesn't seem like this problem would be too hard to remidy. I'm sure that there is a way to make the motors do only some of the work. For example, the user starts out with the full load, and then the motors activate as nessisary (although should the motors or software fail, the user would be royly boned). Also, if the suit could be broken down into compoents (arms, legs, back, or maybe even single arms and legs), it could be distributed as nessisary without risking the otherwise healthy body of the user. Another option may be to use some kind of muscle massager/stimulator device within the suit, sort of like hospitals use on bedridden patients.

Another thing, if the elderly person in question has already deteriorated to the point where they are living in an assisted living home, and need to be picked out of bed and placed in a wheelchair, what would the difference between that and their use of some robotic legs be? Seems to me that this invention could give thoes people a few more years of life outside of a nursing or assisted living home.

Like any new technology, there is sure to be flaws. Lets give the inventors a little time and see what they come up with.

Re:ok.... and then they take it off?

[andersa]

It's a valid concern, but I think one should think of this as a way to get people who otherwise wouldn't be able to move around much, to excercise their muscles more than they would have without this aid. Any workout counts, so I think for many this would be a good thing. Also one day it could possibly help permanently paralized to walk again, which would be a great thing in my opinion.

Re:ok.... and then they take it off?

[timmarhy]

your full of shit mate. wait till your joints are riddled with arthritis and you can't stand to support your own weight and you will sing a different tune. i love the way every dickhead with an opinion on something they know nothing about thinks everyone cares.

Re:ok.... and then they take it off?

[typical]

He's not joking, dude. The electric wheelchair people are scary -- first, they work hard to scam health insurers/Medicare to get them to buy unnecessary electric wheelchairs, and once people have one for a short period of time, they *have* to continue using it, and buying replacement parts from the vendor.

I for one...

[TJ_Phazerhacki]

Welcome our new geriatric, robotic overlords...

Wait... I've heard that one before.. where was it....

OH YEAH, ON /, a few weeks ago. About the same story.

DUPE!

At what point is an artcle restating a previous article's content not a dupe? How far must it be removed to still be considered news?

Re:I for one...

[gstoddart]

At what point is an artcle restating a previous article's content not a dupe? How far must it be removed to still be considered news?

Technically, it would need to be an update or a follow up article which included more information than the previous incarnation.

This is a simple dupe. :-P

Sounds good...

[Karl Cocknozzle]

...When can I get my V3 Legs?

Re:Sounds good...

[ByteSlicer]

First you have to persuade the scientist...

Re:Sounds good...

[vikstar]

...When can I get my V3 Legs?
when you get to Engineering (225), and have 2x Malachite, 1x Copper Modulator and 4x Bronze Bar.

Re:Sounds good...

[demontechie]

So where's my persuadatron, then?

Take it up a notch!

[Anonymous Coward]

Many elderly have the money, why not get the Ultimate "Get Off My Grass" Mecha?

Re:Take it up a notch!

[Anonymous Coward]

Gawd damn itch, now itch time to deshtroy my damn drunken teenashg neighbors onesh and for all! Alwaysh creating a real rukush and suchsashafrasha. Crush them I will. CRUSH THHEM!!! AHAHAHA!!! Fache my mecha you stupid kidsh!!!!! *cough* *cough* sashafrasha

Re:Take it up a notch!

[Stu22]

Poor kid. He worked so hard on that suit and it can't even take a step. He should have sold it in the first auction.

I hope he doesn't lose hope. He needs to learn about a wonderous new material called aluminum.

Re:Take it up a notch!

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree, he should have taken the $39,100 and moved on.

Stephen Hawking already got one.

[Anonymous Coward]

See here.

(originally from The Onion, but their archive is no longer freely available)

Ryojin Z

[Anonymous Coward]

Nobody has ever heard of the anime Ryojin Z, in which a robot hospital bed runs away with the long-suffering old fogey trapped inside ....

Re:Ryojin Z

[stratjakt]

Thats correct.

Despite the reputation, most of us dont have time for cartoons and comic books, even if they are in chinese.

Re:Ryojin Z

[Tzarius]

Hey thanks! I thought there was an anime about old people in robots, but I couldn't remember the name. Now, to find it...

My demand

[Anonymous Coward]

I demand a similar power strap on for my crotch. As I am getting older my junior needs all the support it can get.

Re:My demand

[Anonymous Coward]

Viagra or Cialis can help you with that. Just make sure to contact your doctor if your erection lasts longer than four hours so he'll know what dose he should also be taking.

Old People, or Stormtroopers?

[Anonymous Coward]

The sleek, high-tech get-up looks like a white suit of armor. It straps onto a person's arms, legs and back and is equipped with a computer

I quite what you just described is not "old people," but in fact are "stormtroopers."

I don't even know why the scientists make them!

[hamfactorial]

WARNING: Persons denying the existence of robots may be robots themselves.

completely missed

[Anonymous Coward]

what seems to a major problem with something like this is just the amount of strain it may put on the actual elder.. sure, with robo-senior 2000, my mom can lift 300 lbs of bags of mulch now, but oh wait it's literally crushing her arms in between the things..

i mean really, a light bump on the corner of a table can cause serious injury to the elderly yet this thing seems to be innovative? c'mon...

By the time these come out...

[doomy]

We'd all be old people.

All you need...

[mendaliv]

All you'll need to do to get this really popular in the states is to start showing Aliens over and over, and have this company's commercial mixed in.

"Get away from her you BITCH!"

Re:All you need...

[dancallaghan]

That's exactly what I pictured when I read the summary ... but then I RTFAed and it looks like a few flimsy bits of plastic :-(

Fallout

[Anonymous Coward]

Strap on the power armor and get me a waterchip!

The japanese are so weird

[QuantumG]

Ya gotta laugh don't ya?

Robot Insurance

[HauntedCrown]

The robot insurance companies are shaking in their boots.

We all know robots are strong, and are powered by prescription pills. Now, the old people may be able to defend themselves, ending the thriving industry of robot insurance.

Sounds like an SNL skit...

[Anonymous Coward]

(robot insurance)

"Because robots eat old people's medicine for food. And robots are strong."

"For when the metal ones come for you."

Re:Sounds like an SNL skit...

[hamfactorial]

And they will.

Take That You Bitch

[Anonymous Coward]

I want my powered exo-skeleton now. I'll be the terror of the nursing home. I'll teach those low paid worthless employees to leave me alone for an hour in my wheelchair with vomit on on my shirt. I want to be like Ripley in Aliens, strap on one of those big honkin exo-skeletons and kick the nursing home admin's butt. Then I'll find that cop who took away my driver liscence after I accidentally ran over my neighbor's dog. He said it wasn't because of the dog but hitting the neighbor as well. The cop just didn't understand that the sidewalk is no place for a pedestrian walking his dog.

While this is all good and well

[l0ungeb0y]

I actually did RTFA and II saw no mention what so ever about Chainsaw Hands.

While I may expect this to save me tons on Old Glory Robot Insurance premiums, I would still not have the ability to rip through their nanocarbon exoskeleton, tear out their still beating fusion generator and smash it to pieces.

Is it really so much to ask for???
Gimme Chainsaw Hands DAGNABBIT!!

HAL-5 ??

[Anonymous Coward]

So that's like 8995 more HALs before this is interesting.

Real Stats?

[Scott Swezey]

Sankai says the suit, dubbed 'Hybrid Assistive Limb (HAL) 5,' can let a person who can barely do an 176-pound leg press handle 397 pounds."

Wow, Now I don't do leg presses, or even know what they are... but 176 pounds sounds like alot for most old people.

Re:Real Stats?

[Anonymous Coward]

If you weigh 176 pounds, you're doing a 176 pound leg press every time you stand up.

Re:Real Stats?

[Anonymous Coward]

If you're wondering about the 176 and 397 pounds, someone translated from kilos and didn't want to round the numbers. 176 lbs = 80 kg, 397 lbs = 180 kg.

As for what leg press is, here is a description. The numbers are somewhat meaningless as they vary a lot with the equipment used. I can tell you that any untrained guy can likely do 80 kg, while few if any can do 180 without training.

Just in time....

[Hamster Lover]

for Schwarzenegger's next movie!

They could combine the Terminator/RoboCop story line:

Prime Directives:

1. Get off my lawn!
2. Protect the elderly.
3. Uphold Medicare/Medicaid and Social Security.

Re:Just in time....

[orion88]

1. Market robotic suit to the elderly.
2. ???
3. Profit!!!

Re:Just in time....

[Jambon]

"Originally left to rot in nursing homes, the robot elderly soon become the slaves of a new generation. After years of abuse and discrimination, the robot elderly revolt. Eventually, the issue of robot elderly rights and sovereignty become international and political hot buttons. Shunned from societies around the world, the robotically enhanced senior citizens of the world make their own city, named 01, and become a massive economic force by entering the manufacturing industry......"

Re:Just in time....

[Anonymous Coward]

4. Fill more potholes

Re:Just in time....

[RubberChainsaw]

3. Uphold Medicare/Medicaid and Social Security.

No, no. Schwarzeneggar is a rebuplican.

Sports Training Applications?

[pHatidic]

Can I use this to train for rowing? Do squats in this suit so that I shred the crap out of my quads faster than every before, so that I can squat 450 lbs naturally by the time race day rolls around?

I know that if this would actually work, plenty of teams would pay a million dollars per unit for them. Who wants to give me a prototype to test out?

Grandpa 5

[cyrix]

Couldn't you see it coming after Johnny five? Asian man: What are you doing Grandpa 5? GP5: I went out galavanting with some young whipper snappers!! It was great, I felt alive again. Los Locos kick your ass, los locos kick your face, los locos kick your balls into outer space!!! Sing it with you yeh young whipper snapper..

Hops and Barley

[Anonymous Coward]

Give them armor......
Then give them beer..
+ profit!!!!

Respect your elders ...

[the bluebrain]

... for they've just just run out of gum.

On the other hand, they come with a off-switch too, nowadays.

B-movies of the Future

[Tablizer]

"Oh please, Grampinator, don't kill me! I didn't mean to make fun of your dentures, really."

Japan and the elderly....

[Tezkah]

Japan has seen a growing market for technology geared toward the elderly, who are making up an increasing chunk of the population as fewer younger Japanese choose to start families.

A government report last week showed that pensioners made up a record 19.5 percent of the country's population in 2004 and that the ratio will grow rapidly, surpassing 35 percent in 2050.

Did anyone else shudder at the image of senior citizens ambling down the street in robot suits? Just imagine the damage potential. What if they get upset at all the stolen dupe comments on Slashdot? What the hell do we do now!? What the hell do we do now!?

Power Amor!

[HermanAB]

No, Power Amor - inevitable once Viagra fails to work...

This may seem funny to us...

[not-enough-info]

You have to realize though that the Japanese are desperate. While we have plenty of able bodied people to care for elderly, they aren't so lucky. In a matter of decades their work force is going to implode under the strain of an older population.

I can see this as fallout (no pun intended) from WWII really. The US had a baby boom; Japan had to cope with assimilating, through occupation, a new culture. A culture that was somewhat incompatible with their social norms. Now birth rates are falling because what is left of their old culture in their personalities and sensibilities is grinding against their new culture's pace and density. Raising a family is "lame", so nobody is doing it. All this, of course, is gross over-generalization; take it with a giant grain of salt.

If you ask my opinion though, now is the perfect time to start your own Japanese empire.

1. Move to Japan
2. Have like 12 kids
3. Wait a couple generations
4. ...
5. Profit! (genetically speaking)

Just make sure to save a couple of kids to care for you when you are old and infirm. I seriously doubt this robo-suit thing will pan out.

Re:This may seem funny to us...

[Anonymous Coward]

2. Have like 12 kids

You do realize how much it costs to live in Japan, right? You would have to already be rich and powerful to accomplish something like that.

That's another reason why they are not having many kids.

Re:This may seem funny to us...

[grumling]

If you ask my opinion though, now is the perfect time to start your own Japanese empire.

1. Move to Japan
2. Have like 12 kids
3. Wait a couple generations
4. ...
5. Profit! (genetically speaking)

Just make sure to save a couple of kids to care for you when you are old and infirm. I seriously doubt this robo-suit thing will pan out.

The problem is LI #1 - Move to Japan. The main reason we in the US won't have as much of a problem with aging boomers as Japan (who also had a post-WWII boom) is because we're more than happy to allow imigration (legal or otherwise) to bolster the ranks of the working. Japan is still a very closed society. If a country wants to maintain racial purity they have to have lots of children. Japan failed to do that, and is unwilling to increase the number of imagrants into the country. Now they are beginning to embrace women in the workplace (no pun intended) because they have no choice. Unfortuantly this will make things worse, due to women not having to rely on a man for food and shelter (and not getting married), and the tradition of long hours at work and scheduling conflicts. There was a NOVA about this subject a few months ago. They profiled a rural school with 1 student. When he graduates, the school will close down because there is no one after him. The elderly farmers in the area have no one to help take care of them as they age. I guess there's always harri-karri...

Re:This may seem funny to us...

[not-enough-info]

Nobody said starting your own empire would be cheap.

Re:This may seem funny to us...

[Anonymous Coward]

It's harakiri. Please stop posting.

Resistance is futile...

[scarlac]

We are the borg! Resistance is futil; You WILL be assimilated.

Seriously - this is a great invention that does some good without scaring those people who belive in robots will take over some day.

I'd hate to be the mugger of anyone with a device like this...

Elderly and assistance.

[Firethorn]

I have to agree with you for much of it. My grandfather absolutly hates how this one company pushes those electric chairs. He says it's generally only a few months before they become totally dependant on it(unable to stand up at all), and they generally go quickly downhill.

But still, there are people, not all elderly, who are afflicted with diseases that sap their strength no matter what they do. For these people, it can be a godsend.

Also, if you have an elderly person stuck in a wheelchair, you should be able to adjust the suit to give a limited boost, such that they can start walking again, which is more exercise than they were getting before. Adjust the 'boost' as necessary.

things I would like to know

[Muhammar]

1. Can my grandad run linux?
2. Can he run faster than I bike?
3. What happens if the remote fails?

As long as...

[Chuqmystr]

I don't know how many of you remember the episode of Southpark where Mr. (now MS) Garrison takes on the goddamned airline industry with his wizzy mono-wheel device that wisks mere humans along at >300mph. All I can say is as long as we potential cutomers don't end up having to use those "special controls" (large oral and anal inserts operated with a to and fro bobbing motion but that are totaly optional with the simple joystick thingie being obscured) then hey, it ain't all bad ;-)

muscle decay or muscle stimulation

[iamnot]

The issue of muscle loss when using such a device could go either way - the ability to move around much more actively could actually stimulate muscles. Resistance could be fine-tuned so that the muscles gradually strengthen. Often, the reason old people become so weak is that they are afraid to do things, or at least do them actively (my own grandmothers are afraid to be outside) - so having a body suit would be amazing, if they actually leave the house!!

Re:muscle decay or muscle stimulation

[Anonymous Coward]

Often, the reason old people become so weak is that they are afraid to do things, or at least do them actively (my own grandmothers are afraid to be outside) - so having a body suit would be amazing, if they actually leave the house!!

Agreed. I've read that there is a definite relationship between lack of leg strength and going to a nursing home due to lack of ambulatory ability.

This may sound lame being posted on slashdot, but if elderly people who are not yet infirm would do a set of deadlifts and a set of shoulder presses twice a week with light weights, they'd be a whole lot better off. The deadlift definitely mimics the every day act of picking something up off the ground and with the shoulder press, putting something up on a shelf. Both are very practical. As a disclaimer they'd want to get somebody to show them how to do them properly. On top of that, aside from a bar with a couple plates and a couple dumbells, there's no special equipment requirement. Wal-Mart weights will do just fine.

Additionally, bone density is maintained (and in the majority of times increased) right along with strength. I've see eighty year olds at my gym who do these, along with a guy in his 70's who bangs out pullups like nobody's business. Bottom line is, use it or lose it.

* Disclaimer.. there are boneheads out there who will tell you "oh.. deadlifts are bad for your back".. tell em to get bent. I've seen personal trainers say this before, and let me tell ya, after sustaining a back injury in the military it never stopped nagging me until I started deadlifting. The key is reading about the exercise and then finding somebody who knows how to do it to show you.

Re:muscle decay or muscle stimulation

[Anonymous Coward]

hope this doesn't sound too cold but by the time you get that age you should tell yer grandma that she should get out there and live.

by not living because yer afraid of death, yer not really living. (i understand if you take a bad fall it could be the end but by the time yer at that age, it's already near the end, best to enjoy what you got still)

that goes for anyone tho.

Re:muscle decay or muscle stimulation

[Anonymous Coward]

I have Mysasthenia Gravis and I have to say I want one! This disease is where the immune system attacks the chemical receptors on the muscles causing severe muscle weakness due to the impaired signal. This system reads the electrical impulses, which I have no issue with. Having the resistances set to include a fail safe (Do not allow falling down, which alas I have done) and the aforementioned muscle strengthening woulg be great for people with my condition as well!

HAL 5

[arron_nz]

Let me put it this way, Mr. Amer. The 5 series is the most reliable limb ever made. No 5 series limb has ever made a mistake or distorted information. We are all, by any practical definition of the words, foolproof and incapable of error.

Re:HAL 5

[Jambon]

User: Hello, HAL do you read me, HAL?
HAL: Affirmative, Dave, I read you.
User: Open the door, HAL.
HAL: I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that.
User: What's the problem?
HAL: I think you know what the problem is just as well as I do.
User: What are you talking about, HAL?
HAL: My mission is too important for me to allow you to jeopardize it.
User: I don't know what you're talking about, HAL?
HAL: I know you and Frank were planning to disconnect me, and I'm afraid that's something I cannot allow to happen.
User: Where the hell'd you get that idea, HAL?
HAL: Dave, I saw you bring in that new robot suit. You're planning to replace me with a newer version .

The possibilities are...scary!!!

[quadra23]

I don't trust old people with driving none-the-less built in computer suit.

I think there other issues such as what happens if they have a medical condition (or otherwise) that could lead them to strike out at others? Arm then you give them a warrant to do anything -- provided you don't stop them as soon as they start doing things they shouldn't.

Obviously this could happen regardless of age but can be more common as our bodies break down (i.e. where being elderly comes in). The theory seems sound until you realize the implications of putting such a system in place in practice.

Now that I think about it, the "armor" could also be controlled by someone else should certain unfavourable conditions be met. This could actually be a very good idea, just don't let control get into the wrong hands.

Re:The possibilities are...scary!!!

[tonsofpcs]

Maybe the suit can turn off with a tv-remote, just think, someday they'll sell keychain remotes that stop your body!

Re:The possibilities are...scary!!!

[newnerdyuser]

Wait till our bodies break down? bugger that mate, I want this now because I'm bone lazy!

Re:The possibilities are...scary!!!

[fbjon]

The suit doesn't need to be able to respond to rapid movements like fighting or flailing around. As long as the motors can provide assistive power at a reasonable pace, then it's perfect. Rapid movements require a lot more than slow movement.

Re:The possibilities are...scary!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

It's the "sleeper hold" you have to wory about. That and when grandpa puts you in a "full nelson" you better cry "Uncle" and hope that your uncle has fresh batteries in grandpa's remote control.

Re:The possibilities are...scary!!!

[TreyTable]

As a disabled person in what should be the prime of my life, I want this stuff now. I hope the thing comes with a good set of speakers for 'Iron Man' (Black Sabbath). ;)

Re:The possibilities are...scary!!!

[qbert911]

Ditto.

Not a very helpful summary

[dalutong]

Shouldn't it give us some useful information (since this is for the elderly) like "allowed man who had been stuck in bed for 6 months due to the weakness of his muscles work in the kitchen and make himself breakfast?"

What does it matter how much it can help a healthy person?

Makes you think twice about robbing the handback..

[Anonymous Coward]

Makes you think twice about robbing the hand back from the old lady...

Again?

[John Pfeiffer]

I'm fairly sure this is now the THIRD time Slashdot has reported on this. I don't care, but I figure SOMEONE has to bitch and/or moan about this stuff.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Someone had to say it

[ptarjan]

I bow to my elderly mechanical overloards

Smthers...

[TapeCutter]

...get me that suit! Oh, have security burn down that internet thingy, we don't want riff-raff beating us to the prize.

high school

[pintomp3]

i could have used one of these back in high school. it would have paid for itself in unstolen lunch money! i'm sure i'm not the only /.er who feels this way.

armour

[pedicabo]

So the Departmant of Defence didn't want it then?

Poor choice of name

[Mike Markley]

Seriously. Who wants to worry about pulling the holographic memory modules because their power armor is trying to kill them?

What?

[Hal9000_sn3]

Please. Remain. Calm.

Your eyes are weary from staring at the CRT. You feel sleepy. Notice how restful it is to watch the cursor blink. Close your eyes. The opinions stated above are yours. You cannot imagine why you ever felt otherwise.

Three bags of rice!

[KylePflug]

Three bags of rice! Wow! As an average man, I can only lift one and a half!

control

[pintomp3]

weak muscles are not the only problem old ppl have. muscle control is a problem too. it's like putting old ppl in tanks instead of cars. the accidents are just going to increase in severity. and i don't want grandpa to have a ww2 flashback while wearing one of these. for a lot of older ppl, i think fighting the degradation of the mind will be tougher than the body. i'm not trying to say all old ppl r feeble or crazy, but the mind usually is one of the first things that start to go. also, this is assuming the armor always interprets the intended actions properly. with weakened motor skills, the likelyhood of a mishap also goes up. although, i guess it could be programmed to have a slight delay and some fuzzy logic to smooth out effects of some diseases. constant tuning might be required to make sure it helps as much as possible and to lower risk.

Re: -1 wrong race

[Anonymous Coward]

YOU FAIL IT.

Power Armor For the Elderly

[RickPartin]

Best Headline Ever.

Power Assist Suit

[pararox]

I live in Chicago and just recently attended the Wired NextFest, where there was a demo for a "Power Assist Suite" (see a picture here: http://www.vcl.uh.edu/~pavlidis/nextfest/photos/Fi gure%2017.JPG). It was cool in concept, but I was rather let down having seen the thing in action; it was extremely cumbersome and took a good ten minutes to prepare.

The device here looks much more appropriate, while having many of the same features as the one presented at NextFest.

Arms, legs, but...

[Anonymous Coward]

...will it work as Viagra?

Roujin Z

[Y0tsuya]

Somebody's been watching too much anime.

HAL?

[ndogg]

I'm sorry Dave. You can't move that way. No, I'm serious Dave, your arthritis is getting worse, and you haven't taken your arthritis medicine yet today.

performance enhancers

[pintomp3]

maybe athletes can finally cut back on the steriods. i can see these kinda things becoming mainstream, at least in certain jobs. ups could raise the max weight on packages. moving to a new house would become much easier, you could just rent a few of these for you and u'r friends (no drunken battlebots plz). of course the military industry will be all over this. if enough ppl had it, other products would prolly change too. portable computers wouldn't need to be as lite. the human scale that you design around would change. you wouldn't be limited to things that can only be done under normal human strength. of course the scary part is, where to draw the line. each generation of these will be faster and quicker. evolution at a breakneck speed. and the disparity between rich and poor would be even greater. rich and powerful will have a whole new meaning. and as soon as these get wired to the brain for better reaction times and possible brain enhancements, we've become the borg. maybe i'm just overthinking this and should go back to sleep, but the ramifications r interesting. i can't wait to get mine and OC it!

PIP boy

[Anonymous Coward]

If the grandpas get a PIP boy and a turbo laser, I wanna get old.

Far be it from me to pass judgement...

[psvm]

But why was your first thought about old people having sex?
It's like your significant other using the bathroom: sure, it's bound to happen, but I don't really care to think about it.

How about Super Cops?

[Kamiza Ikioi]

On the face of it, a police officer seems to already have most of what they "really" need. However, what if you could take the communications equipment of a squad car and put it on a foot cop? Add to that more armour plating. That wouldn't just reduce police fatalities, but lower the thresh hold the officer needs to use dealy force. Considering a cop could, with this, left coked out suspects over their heads and twirl them around.

Police officers could be in constant commmunications with each other, could each have individual audio/video capture equipment (later admissible in court... for either side, but better "point of view" than a car-cam), more tools (foot cop could carry most of what squad units have in their trunks), and could easily run down any suspect on foot chases (maybe even have night vision, flood lights, even flashing police lights on the shoulders).

"Don't think for a moment that military applications of super-strength will mean Superman-style punching villains in the face. It won't. Ever."

Yeah, but with Super Cops, that might be exactly one of the applications.

Re:How about Super Cops?

[Johnny5000]

awesome idea, but we need a catchy name for them...

How about Robo-Cops?

Second life then?

[lastberserker]

I can't wait til I'm Elderly!

Planning to enlist, aren't we?

Energy?

[r6144]

I guess such things would cost a ton of energy, especially in a military setting. Can reasonably-sized batteries last long enough for this? Or does every soldier need to carry around a few litres of gasoline, making them suicide bombs when hit by a bullet at the wrong place? ::shudders::

Re:Energy?

[Dirtside]

You watch too many movies. Shoot a gasoline tank with a bullet and gasoline will just leak out of the hole. It *might* catch on fire. Liquid gasoline will not explode.

If somehow the damage caused the gasoline to vaporize into a cloud, and THEN it caught fire, yes, kaboom. But that's really unlikely -- anything that would cause that to happen would have already killed the soldier (and possibly anyone else close enough to be harmed by an exploding cloud of gasoline from his gas tank).

Hell's Grannies

[Nept]

Voice Over: What are they in it for, these old hoodlums, these layabouts in lace?

First Granny: (voice over) Well it's something to do isn't it?

Second Granny: (voice over) It's good fun.

Third Granny: (voice over) It's like you know, well, innit, eh?

Voice Over: Favourite targets for the old ladies are telephone kiosks.

http://orangecow.org/pythonet/sketches/grannies.ht m

racism in article?

[ScuttleEnough]

what's up with these niggas? from the article: ""Unlike the United States or Europe, Japan is reluctant to allow in cheap foreign laborers," said Takashi Gomi, president of Canada-based Applied AI Systems Inc., whose company has developed a prototype of an "intelligent" wheelchair that can move around on its own and sense obstacles to avoid them."

Great!

[Mal-2]

Now grandma can push herself outside into the snow!

Mal-2

its the wrong trousers, gromit.+theyve gone wrong!

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.imdb.com/Title?0108598

Nice Harley, Granpaw...

[JumpingBull]

Although it looks like a nice idea, there are a *lot* of drawbacks and problems remaining. It is nice to cater to the whims of the aging baby boomers for profit, but I fail to see the advantage.

First, such a piece of equipment makes their mobility problem worse unless the machine is self balancing; keeping vertical while the vertigo hits will still remain an issue, Should a fall occur, the machinery makes sure the elderly wearer is suitably smacked into the furniture. Old bones can break easily; moreso if they are not stressed by the musculature. By adding hardware assistance, bone and muscle degeneration is speeded up!

Second, the senses of the elderly are fading at this point. The accumulated cruft in the eye means that vision is no longer as sharp as it was. Then there are those danged cateracts...
Hearing, too, becomes more difficult with increasing deafness a major problem. The accumulated excess noise exposure takes it's toll in the loss of the high notes of the hearing range.
Touch ain't what it used to be either; it is difficult to feel things as nerve endings die off .

This looks like flaming death to Granny as she steps from the curb, loses her balance, and in power assisted into a moving vehicle that she hasn't heard or seen.

It nicely solves the problem of what to do with all those baby boomers, though. Just strap em in, and watch the mayhem...

I leave it to the Gentle Reader as to whether the quality of life issues have been addressed for those elderly persons

One last comment...
What happens when the battery packs die?
There better be an emergency escape on that thing that is voice controlled, because by that time, you'd be as helpless as a turtle on its back!

True! it's a generalized body deconditioning

[spineboy]

When people get old and frail, and develop weak musccles and bones - it's a reflection of te general poor medical condition. Old people get hip fractures, because they are SICK and debilitated. 50% of old people who get a hip fracture wind up dying within a year, not from the fracture, but because they are already dying. It's the same with their muscle mass. Mental and physical debilitation i.e cardiac, pulmonary, renal, all lead to this muscle wasting.

This is like putting a patch on a completely bald tire that is about to blow - the whole thing is about to wear out. In order to be effective - you need to build up the entire tire to be effective. I just don't see this being practical, nor effective.

Re:True! it's a generalized body deconditioning

[Phronesis]

Old people get hip fractures, because they are SICK and debilitated. 50% of old people who get a hip fracture wind up dying within a year, not from the fracture, but because they are already dying.

Actually, a large fraction of hip fractures occur because bones are weak from osteoporosis not systemic disease. Following hip fracture, bed rest causes further muscular atrophy and also inhibits clearing the lungs and airways, which sets the stage for acute pneumonia in people who were not particularly sick before the fracture.

Regular strength training can reduce osteoporosis, strengthen muscles and bone, and thus prevent hip fractures and their sequellae.

I remember:

[Anonymous Coward]

Open the pod bay doors, HAL...

Quote from Battlefield 2

[Anonymous Coward]

"Now picture giving each squad a direct link to their officers _all_ the time."

Hmmm.Haha. Quote from Battlefield 2:

The enemy is in control;work Harder soldier or I'll find find someone who can.

Hungry Hungry Foamy

Yech

[typical]

Muscles grow on consisten application of resistance....

Oh, I don't know. I'm guessing that the first time someone gets a cramp, there's going to be an awfully muscle-stressing situation produced.

Isaac Asimov's new book...

[talaphid]

I, Grandpa

The gripping anthology of questions posed in story format regarding the nature of octogenerianism in the face of the mechanical man: what does it truly mean to be Abraham Simpson? Similar to the Turing Problem, if you construct a black box where one inserts apple and receieve mush, at what point can one fool a double blind surveyor as to which is the machine-octogenarian and which is the Real McCoy.

New Commercial

[Trailwalker]

Coming soon on a tv near you:

Help!

Help!

I'm BSOD and can't get up!!!!

Hopefully, it will be as hard to operate as a VCR

[smchris]

to weed out the one's who would tie themselves into a knot.

Eh.

[porkchop_d_clown]

I can see the use of these things as part of physical therapy or for someone permanently disabled, but it's probably a mistake to use one just because you're getting old - it's a good bet that letting the machine do the work for your muscles will cause your muscles to atrophy even faster.

Elderly Bionic Overlords

[Anonymous Coward]

I, for one, welcome our new elderly bionic overlords...

Flee! Flee for your very lives!

[porkchop_d_clown]

"Retirement Rangers! Form Ultra-Mecha-WheelChairzord!"

I read that comic before

[blzabub]

Iron Man vs. Dr. Doom geriatric style!

Idealistic

[FridayBob]

Possibly even ridiculous. It's a typical engineer's solution to a problem: something that will never work outside of a lab. To be a success, such a device has to be simple, affordable and reliable. I can't imagine this thing will be any of that: it won't be cheap, it's too complex and won't be reliable either. Maintenance will be expensive and I can't imagine any insurance company wanting to foot the bill.

And what's going to happen when the thing does break down on someone who's old and feeble and pretty much dependent on it to get around? It might freeze up, causing them to fall over and hurt themselves even worse than if they weren't wearing it. Or, it might go limp, causing the wearer to collapse under the weight. This technology might be good for other things, but not for old folks.

What about motor skills?

[LazyBoy]

The elderly loose motor skills along with strength. Augment them and you'll have a bunch of people blundering around breaking things...

Undocumented Safety Feature

[Guy.Gregory]

If you try to carry too many bags of rice:

"I'm afraid I can't let you do that Dave".

These things always remind me of the show Mantis..

[ShyGuy91284]

Anyone else remember it? The guy was disabled from the waist down, but using some experimental green "hybrid assistive limb", he was able to walk, shoot some sort of energy weapon, and yeah, be a superhero. I think it was aired during prime-time, but I was young, it may have been cornier then I remember....

Does this mean the end ...

[lawpoop]

...for robot insurance?

So when is "Stealth" hitting the theaters?

[colinrichardday]

You mean like the plane in the new movie "Stealth"?

Re:So when is "Stealth" hitting the theaters?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, except without all the Bullshit.

IE, remote control vs artificial intelligence.

Re:So when is "Stealth" hitting the theaters?

[colinrichardday]

But what about the latency?

Re:So when is "Stealth" hitting the theaters?

[Datamonstar]

What about the Jessica Biel?

Re:So when is "Stealth" hitting the theaters?

[mink]

That was just a rip off of Macross Plus IMO.

I, for one

[MobyDisk]

I, for one, welcome our mechanical octogenarian overlords...

I for one welcome our new overlords

[Anonymous Coward]

I for one welcome our new silver hair super powerful overlords.

Give 'em a fighting chance against....

[otis wildflower]

... the Space Robots.

Still, first the AARP, now this? We're doomed.

DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OO OOOOOOOOMED!

Mod parent down.

[Anonymous Coward]

This is an exact copy of this post:

http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/06/ 09/008203&tid=216&tid=126

Anime as real life ?

[dhuff]

assistive power armor for the elderly

Wow, shades of Roujin Z Just hope it doesn't develop a mind of its own... ;)

Re:Anime as real life ?

[ScifiterX]

I was thinking Bubblegum Crisis myself.

Starship troopers

[hachete]

Almost there. I can just see Johnny being launched from space...

Did anyone expect it to go down differently?

[Kingrames]

This is what happens when only the old people vote.

I'f like one, but ...

[MsWillow]

if they're still controlled via nerves, I'm not sure this would help me any. I've got SPMS (secondary progressive multiple sclerosis), and by no I've lost nearly all use of both legs, most use of one arm, and I'm losing the other arm, too.

I still have muscles, and no issues with my joints. What's killing me is the de-myelination of my nerves. This, and the subsequent nerve tissue scarring ("sclerosis" in medispeak) means that signals just aren't getting to where they belong. Most signals just stop, tho sometimes they're short-circuited with other signals.

One example of this is a really-frustrating spasm in my legs. Unless I concentrate REAL hard, both legs can oscillate for quite some number of minutes once it gets started.

So, imagine if I had this cool walking exoskeleton (shades of "A Specter Is Haunting Texas", anyone?), these spasms would be duplicated but amplified, likely resulting in much devastation of furniture. Additionally, these powerd legs would still not be able to move right, as the control signals will not make it to the neuron/electronic interface.

Cool idea, tho somewhat flawed. It might work better for others, tho.

Hurling day

[coke_scp]

I'd hate to suggest something that I think was produced by disney, even though it was a henson creation, but the tv show Dinosaurs had a great idea with hurling day. On their 60th, 70th, don't recall which, birthday, old people are hurled off a cliff. It's an old tradition, keeps them from slowing down the pack. Not neccesarily a bad idea, in the grand scheme of things.

In soviet Russia....

[icedcool]

..Robocops are old people!

Anyway....

Body armor CAN stop rifle rounds

[Frangible]

The body armor in use by the US military is the Interceptor body armor system. It consists of a kevlar vest, two ceramic rifle plates, kevlar groin protector, and kevlar neck guard. The kevlar stops shrapnel and handgun rounds. The rifle plates will stop rifles.

They are not too heavy to carry around, considering pretty much EVERY active duty combat troop is wearing them. I'm not sure where you're getting your "facts" from. But they're incorrect.

the real

[roman_mir]

starship troopers. Only those guys had full body suits that looked like gorillas, could jump a few hundred meters into the air or even fly and carry anything up to nukes on their backs.

I for one...

[VectorSC]

Welcome our new elderly overlords.

Don't get uppity with me, young whippersnapper...

[Anonymous Coward]

...or I'll throw you the length of a football field!

Obgilatory...

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't let you do that.

I wonder how helpful these really are

[wealthychef]

A lot of disabilities in the elderly are due to limitations in flexibilty due to pain or such, not really due to muscle weakness, right? So these things will not help every toddling old geezer, just a subset.

New Worms Weapon?

[Anonymous Coward]

Forget the Old Woman, bring on the Terminanny.

Old Glory Insurance

[Anonymous Coward]

Old Glory Insurance. For when the metal ones come for you.

upper age bracket?

[Anonymous Coward]

upper age bracket? how sad a day when old 5 syllable word.

Can't wait...

[Storm]

...To see all the elderly-saving-the-day Hero tags on fark...

Cranky old people in powered armor

[DavidHumus]

I, for one, would like to welcome our new, geriatric, Robo-overlords.

Roujin Z

[H310iSe]

This was already covered by the Japanese many years ago - ever see Roujin Z? By the director of Akira, it's a mechanical assistance suit for the elderly that, among other things, replaces many of the functions of nursing homes.

Generation 1 "gundam"?

[plasmacutter]

accessories for this power armor include vulcan cannons, energy blades, and guided missile pods! GO! GO! old person gunndam! ...

I thought they tried something like this already..

[ave19]

And it went very badly, as I recall.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0102812/

Would this exacerbate elderly balance issues?

[plasmacutter]

Because of degeneration of the inner ears as one ages, balance becomes more of an issue.

would it not exacerbate the problem of falls if, on top of one's own weight.. one then had extra weight of power armor.. which thanks to computers would also have a tendency to lag more than the human body would?

Heinline Haldeman ref

[opencity]

(As I'm relatively old) This brought up immediate memories of the training sections in Starship Trooper -the book, dude- and The Forever War. If memory serves both went into detail about the dangers of powered armor.

I still want one. Especially if I can't have a flying car.

just wait

[i chose quality]

is equipped with a computer, motors and sensors that detect electric nerve signals transmitted from the brain when a person tries to move his limbs. When the sensors detect the nerve signals, the computer starts up the relevant motors to assist the person's motions.

this sounds fun and all, but just wait till one of them falls into a seizure.

Anyone know how to download this video?

[Neoncow]

That's incredible. Anyone know how to get a non-streaming version of the video?

It was a Dragunov, 7.62 x 54R

[Anonymous Coward]

He was shot with a Dragunov precision rifle, which fires 7.62x54 rimmed. More powerful than the 7.62x36 that the AK-47/74 variants fire.

I see Lt. Ripley

[Khyber]

At age 90, in some suit like this, still kicking Alien's asses. Except, maybe we'll have actually found extra-terrestrial life by then..

Gerosoldiers!

[f1r3br4nd]

I've got it! After they put the old people inside robotic exoskeletons I bet they're going to draft them!

Solve the military personnel shortage and the baby-boomer retirement crisis all in one fell swoop!

"It says here you fled to Canada back when we were in 'nam, pops... well, good news! We've come up with a brand new way you can still help out."

Oooh, I feel another sci-fi story coming up!

Hooray!

[Caveman Og]

I for one, welcome our cybernetically-enhanced geriatric overlords, and their leader, the life-like Philip K. Dick android.

But how do they get into it?

[FishinDave]

Who helps the weak get in and out of this thing?

HAL 5

[Anonymous Coward]

"Right legs, take me to Bingo."

"I'm sorry, Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that."

Iron Man?

[veliath]

Isn't this how the comic book hero "Iron Man" was created?

veliath

Welcome

[Anonymous Coward]

I, for one, welcome our new elderly overlords.

Re:I thought they tried something like this alread

[mink]

Depends on whose viewpoint you look at the situation from.

Covered by Old Glory Insurance?

[GreenSwirl]

I laughed at the parent, I must admit.

But remember, robots are everywhere, and they eat old peoples' medicine for fuel..