Slashdot Mirror
A Review of the iPod nano
Carl Bialik from the WSJ writes "Walt Mossberg has been testing the iPod nano for a few days, and he says he is 'smitten.' Mossberg writes in the Wall Street Journal, 'The nano has the best combination of beauty and functionality of any music player I've tested -- including the iconic original white iPod. And it sounds great. I plan to buy one for myself this weekend, when it is due to reach stores in the U.S., Europe and Asia.' Among other things, it has surprisingly good sound: 'Despite its small size, the nano sounded as good as any other iPod, and is packed with plenty of audio power. Plugged into my car speakers, it was able to belt out the new Fountains of Wayne rocker, "Maureen," loudly enough to be heard perfectly, even though I was going 70 mph in a convertible with the top down.'"
...is packed with plenty of audio power. Plugged into my car speakers, it was able to belt out the new Fountains of Wayne rocker, "Maureen," loudly enough to be heard perfectly, even though I was going 70 mph in a convertible with the top down.
:)
...Its your car's amplifier doing the job, not the Nano. The nano has a line-level or headphone-level power output... Nothing impressive there, other than that Apple didn't goof up, right?
Wow, the Nano has a built-in power amplifier with enough power to play that loud in your car? Cool
I'm your huckleberry
I was able to hear Dvorak's Enter the New World crystal clear on nano's lowest volume setting while jackhammers busted up the street outside my window and parrots squawked within a meter of my ear.
Jesus saved me from my past. He can save you as well.
The iPod audio out is very good. Much better then may other portable players. Of course you can't tell this with the earbuds they come with, but that's another issue.
So with a good set of headphones or speakers, and the right music, you can easily tell the difference.
[bitter]If I see one more Nano story I will smash my keyboard over my crappy CRT. Nano can go fuck itself.[/bitter]
My days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle...
that evaluating an audio products signal to noise ratios, total harmonic distortion, audio algorithms and audible compression artifacts, frequency response and sound pressure levels at 70mph with the roof down gives us a more than accurate reprensenation of the audio reproduction of a mass produced Taiwanese digital audio player
glad we have such experts making these evaluations for us so we can base our now informed purchasing decisions based on the results of these tests
I have relatives who are teachers at various levels. They are reporting that many young kids have gotten these small music devices as gifts, and often listen to them in school during lectures. Because they're so small they are often quite easy to hide if the teacher does come along.
That said, several of them have recommended the use of these portable audio devices. They can often allow those students who are easily distracted to get some work done in school. They also have been used in second-language courses to allow the students to directly hear the spoken language, rather than them trying to listen to some audio tape player at the front of the room.
I would love to see companies like Apple do more research into the educational benefits of these portable audio devices. Considering Apple's past experience providing computer systems to educational institutions, they no doubt have the talent and the ability to create a very powerful education medium. The possibilities of using such devices when teaching languages are nearly endless.
Cyric Zndovzny at your service.
Slow down, man! With the wind in your face and the music thump-thumpin' from the new iPod, not to mention the looks of the iPod itself, you might get in an accident :-)
Regards,
John
Falling You - beautiful
I like Apple products unfailingly myself. But then, I'm not a newspaper columnist.
Seriously, has anyone ever read anything by Mossberg about Apple products that wasn't either glowing, stellar, or outright raving?
I've tried my share of portable players and there IS a considerable difference among them in output sound quality. The reviewer never claimed that the nano could drive the car speakers, he said that the sound qaulity was great when amplified through the speakers. And that IS a distinguishing characteristic.
I've actually found it hard to get a good idea of how big iPod nano is from the photos, because my brain wants that color screen to be larger than it really is. I finally stumbled onto Apple's iTunes sync webpage which overlaps iPod nano with a regular iPod to put its size into perspective a bit.
Speaking of eating, Apple needs to sell a candy-like spray so one can "suck" on the iPod nano like a lollipop. Cherry, orange, and grape would be excellent starters.
And if you're wondering about putting an iPod in your mouth, just imagine the other places an iPod could go on (or in!) the body.
I wonder how much the color screen on the new iPods affect the battery life? I currently own a mini and the battery life is very impressive; Showing the album title isn't that big of a deal for me, but I guess others might like that option.
One downside I've noticed on my mini is that the screen is VERY bright while driving around at night. I'll sometimes DD for my friends and it's entertaining when the backlight kicks on while the drunks are trying to get some sleep during the ride home. "Dude, turn that shit off!" which usually sounds something more like "Douf, urn tha shy awf!" *wretch*
I like big butts and I cannot lie.
I wonder if Apple will get Robin Williams to hawk the new iPod Nano Nano?
Now with limited edition Mork & Mindy cover!
Plugged into my car speakers, it was able to belt out the new Fountains of Wayne rocker, "Maureen," loudly enough to be heard perfectly, even though I was going 70 mph in a convertible with the top down.'"p? ....what a wanker! Where's the truck driver from 'Duel' when you need him?
Modest doubt is called the beacon of the wise. - William Shakespeare
Why is he wasting paragraphs on trying things out that are there in black and white in the specs?
... or subjecting it to repeated drops to verify that it wouldn't skip. It's flash memory. Shocks and vibration are not going to be an issue.
"It has two GB of disk space. I tried putting 1.5GB of songs on, and there was room for another 0.5GB of data to spare!"
It does look like quite a nice gadget -- but I wouldn't personally buy anything with less than 20GB for songs.
Newspaper content today is embarassing. Huge sections like "Food and Wine", "Drive", and "Technology" (i.e. ads for buyable gadgets).
A good exercise for students: Take a daily paper, discard all the ad sections, then cross out all remaining ads, then cross out all stories that promote products, then cross out all stories based on political figures saying something, and see what's left.
News is what someone doesn't want published. All else is publicity.
Creative Zen Nano Plus Is Apple losing creativity or did I miss some division getting bought by someone else?
The shuffle has been known to have better sound quality than the regular iPod because the hard drive causes some interference which can lower the sound quality, apparently. The new nano should benefit in the same way.
it's smaller.
battery lasts longer.
its more dependable.
has more space than shuffle, but smaller size.
color screen.
Is there any reason to believe that Apple will dropping the prices on any of the older iPod models in the near future?
Of course, in this case older is a relative term...
... at ~18 hours of battery life, 5Gb of storage, and -$50 in price. The only downside is Rio's dropping support. Given Apple's "just buy a new one" attitude on warrantees, that's barely a negative.
- Despite popular opinion, I am not perfect.
And thus we see why slashdot people are not in marketing.
It's all about form, not function. iPods are functionally inferior to most other MP3 players- no radio, no voice record, no optical outputs, no OGG/WMA support, too expensive for the size, only work with iTunes- but they have a form factor that has yet to be equaled let alone beaten. They look good and feel good. That is what sells. Scoff all you want.
And yes, form matters, even beyond just selling more. I have an iRiver device with a clicky joystick control. It sits at home, unused, because the joystick is a pain to use. My shuffle get carried everywhere and used all the time because it has a simple interface that works.
I'm waiting for the iPod Vi, personally.
"The adjective smitten has 2 meanings:
Meaning #1: (used in combination) affected by something overwhelming
Synonyms: stricken, struck
Meaning #2: marked by foolish or unreasoning fondness
Synonyms: crazy, dotty, gaga, enamored, infatuated, in love, soft on, taken with"
So I suppose we shouldn't really take this review seriously.
Sigs are for the weak.
This is the best iPod yet, though of course I do need more capacity. I think it's silly for people to complain about $199 for 4GB, though. You know, it's like looking at a Mercedes and saying, "$50,000 for four seats?!" Of course, there's more to a car than how many people it can hold. And the iPod is certainly the finest music experience out there - by far.
The next comment I write will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and see it early!
I understand that a significant problem for Apple is that they've achieved so much market penetration that most of the people that want an iPod have an iPod. The solution to this is to produce new models that will encourage those people to chug their old purchase and get a new one.
I find the sound quality on my Mini to be perfectly fine for my middle-aged ears. I don't miss the ability to "view album covers in full color" and if I want to share photos with someone, that's why God made the internet.
The smaller size is great, but the Mini is already really small--much smaller than my wallet. The only part that seems attractive is that there isn't a mini-drive in there to pug out.
I think that Apple has a tough row to hoe when it comes to getting people like to me switch up. I can't think of any features that could reasonably be incorporated in a new iPod that would make me dump my present one, except maybe if it could convert those miserable DRM files that iTunes sells to MP3s.
Mossberg was an Apple coup.
Disclaimer: I've been an Apple fanboy and using Macs consistently since December '84. And also reading about them for all of that time. (I've put my favorite Apple quote below.)
There was a time, not too long ago, perhaps ending in the mid- to late-90's around the time the iMac came out, when Mossberg was relentlessly ANTI-apple. In fact, as I recall, his name was pretty much synonymous with "Apple-basher" in the "beleaguered" Mac community (God, we hated that word...). Perhaps not many people, period, around the time of the Gil Amelio era were pro-Apple (I was a holdout... and proud of it), but Mossberg was quite visible as he was sort of the tech mouthpiece of corporate America.
And then... I'm fairly certain someone at Apple courted this guy. Hard.
Ever since then (and perhaps because of Apple's string of hits, starting with the iMac), Mossberg has been a fanboy. Of course, it's been easy, lately...
(my favorite quote about Apple follows...)
"One of the deep mysteries to me is our logo, the symbol of lust and knowledge, bitten into, all crossed with the colors of the rainbow in the wrong order. You couldn't dream of a more appropriate logo: lust, knowledge, hope, and anarchy."
-Jean-Louis Gassée, Former Apple Computer, Inc. Executive
Every iPod so far has had the capability to transport data, so I don't see why this one would be any different.
From the summary: "Plugged into my car speakers, it was able to belt out the new Fountains of Wayne rocker, "Maureen," loudly enough to be heard perfectly, even though I was going 70 mph in a convertible with the top down.'"
Ooooh! He's trendy (new MTV music), he's rich and stylish (convertible), and he's a wanker (blasting noise pollution).
Please, please, can I be like him? I'll definitely buy a Nano now!
This is a prime example of why trendiness drives iPod sales.
Not to upset the fans or anything, but why is this necessary in an article about a new product?
"Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
And the damn thing still doesn't come with a built in radio. I don't know what in the hell Apple is thinking, as almost all of the other MP3 player manufacturers added an AM/FM tuner to their products years ago.
Sure, having 1000 songs in your pocket is cool, but what if I want to listen to a live news or weather report? What am I supposed to do, carry around a separate radio for that?
Flash is expensive.
Microdrives are expensive.
If you want 4gb of flash or 6gb if microdrive, the iPod is one of the CHEAPEST ways to do so. Always have, as far as I can tell.
GPL Deconstructed
The nano actually allows a car stereo sytem to amplify the sound! What will Apple think of next?
;)
Seriously, what kind of reviewer is impressed by this?
A reviewer who knows anything about analogue audio tech. There are things like impedances, voltages and signal to noise ratios involed in a task like this. Few devices can actually output a signal which is truly suitable for amplification.
You kids these days don't realize that 24 bits at 96 KHz isn't worth jack shit if you don't have a clean signal chain all the way through... digital audio is only pristine as long as it stays digital
.: Max Romantschuk
This has always been a limiting factor of the iPod line. Competitive players such as Creative's Zen series sound noticeably better than any iPod I've heard because of better DACs. So for Mossberg to say that it, "sounded as good as any other iPod" is not a good thing in my opinion.
Here's a secret for great sound on an iPod. Take a green marker and color the outer edge of the case. This will reduce stray "bits" and create a cleaner, more accurate sound. It crushes the "better" DACs in the Creative players.
I'm not a Troll, it's reverse psychology.
AAC is not a closed format and DRM is not required. You can use iTunes to rip your CDs to MP3 or AAC and they will work wherever you want. DRM is only an issue when you are buying an AAC online from the iTunes music store.
Also the Wall Street Journal, where Mossberg writes - a fact you could have checked by reading the article or looking at the URL.
sulli
RTFJ.
And since you clearly didn't read the article, the quote was: Plugged into my car speakers, it was able to belt out the new Fountains of Wayne rocker, "Maureen," loudly enough to be heard perfectly, even though I was going 70 mph in a convertible with the top down.Notice that he said "loudly" enough, being impressed by the volume that his car stereo was producing, not the volume of the iPod. Face it, the guy made a nonsensical statement in his effort to gush all over the nano.
It's $249 for the 4 GB.
I'll have to try that. Hey, I'm not wrong, I'm too precise!
give me a reason to buy this thing because it's soooo coool!!
It attracts chicks.
--R.J.
Electric-Escape.net
A reviewer who knows anything about analogue audio tech. There are things like impedances, voltages and signal to noise ratios involed in a task like this. Few devices can actually output a signal which is truly suitable for amplification.
Even "us kids" understand that you need a clean signal to amplify, but if that's truely what he was talking about then TFA should have been clearer, I mean, he's a tech reviewer for pete's sake! "packed with plenty of audio power" is not the same as "has excellent sound quality".
The same cannot be said for my Cruzer Companion. I was really disappointed by the output. I turn the volume all the way up and it's still pretty weak- or at least not loud (with the earbuds). I won't even drive low frequencies on my HD280.
Additionally there is audible distortion using a Y to the RCA in on my car's amp. My friend's iPod (Gen 2) works great.
Fortunately I only paid $10 for it. I love my Cruzer Micro USB drive, it's tiny and holds a gig, but don't expect quality from the MP3 Companion (I wouldn't pay more than $15 for it).
For those of you who think it doesn't make a difference where your music is played from, let me assure you , it does!
What the review offered the press releases did not:
Varification of battery life. Did you honestly trust the manufacturer claims for battery life outright?
Real-world storage. While he didn't give an exact figure, you can extrapolate a more real-world idea of how many of your songs the nano might hold based on Mossbergs rough explanation of Apples standrd being larger than older music.
Audio output strength - roughly the same as other iPods. They could have reduced it to save battery life. Please note I did not say Quality as you cannot determine that from the convertible test.
Improved description of size. The business card analogy was particularily good, though I am sure he reversed that - he said cut 20% from a buisness card when really I think he meant 20% longer.
So basically there was a lot of information there, if you chose to read the review carefully. Plus it's always more interesting hearing a real user speak about how it is to use. You can only trust them so far, but it's just like movie reviewers in the regard.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
It also holds all your addresses and calendars from your iBook
The new version of iTunes can also get that data from Outlook and Outlook Express in Windows now.
No gapless MP3 playback! Come on, the Rio Karma could do it years ago. I've got a 1st gen Mini now, but I won't buy another iPod before they can do gapless. Mix albums just don't work now.
.sc
Of course, they'd have to start with iTunes. A jukebox that can't do gapless is severely b0rked IMO.
You can use the "Shuffle by album" setting, which means it selects an album by random and plays it from beginning to end. I also prefer listening to complete albums on my iPod.
Lalala
Greetings, Earth creatures! I smork with glee that our plan to enslave your puny race is proceeding so well. As soon as enough of you have inserted the mind control devices into your ugly listening orifices, we will transmit the Signal and strike. Agent Steve has done a masterful job of introducing the Pod units and he shall be made Overlord of Earth when you are defeated! Plus, all the filthy lucre gained will be used to get the Supreme Commander a new ride that will attract nubile female units. All hail Agent Steve!
I am my own gestalt.
It's much snappier! I thought everyone knew that.
I'm sorry. But the only power source capable of generating 1.21 gigawatts of electricity is a bolt of lightning.
Unfortunately, you never know when or where it's ever gonna strike.
Required reading for internet skeptics
The voltage levels for line inputs have been standardized for years and is quite non-critical anyway -- while standard line level is 2 V P-P for 0 dB, if this particula box only produced 1 V P-P for 0 dB, that would only be 3 dB down, which is a couple clicks of the volume control on a typical deck.
Impedances are even more trivial -- a typical line input as an impedance around 15 K ohms, which is easier to drive than the 600 ohms (or so) of a typical headphone. In any case, it would take considerable extra trouble to design a solid state amplifier that had problems driving a 15K input impedance. At the risk of oversimplifying, the basic idea is that the output impedance of the source should be substantially lower than the input impedance of the sink. A typical solid-state design has an output impedance down in the single digits (or less -- for a big power amp, you might see an output impedance in the milliohm range).
As far as signal to noise ratio goes, the SNR of the iPod should greatly exceed what's usable in a car. Even quiet luxury cars typically have noise levels around 65 dB SPL or so. If you limit the maximum volume to (say) 110 dB SPL, that means your environment only has about a 45 dB SNR. 24 bit sampling theoretically gives an SNR around 120 dB. Apple's analog section probably reduces that a little, but they'd really have to screw things up for it to become a problem under the circumstances.
The bottom line is that driving a line input in a car means next to nothing.
--
The universe is a figment of its own imagination.
The universe is a figment of its own imagination.
This was done years ago.
i ews/934/index5.htmlrel=url2html-10671http://www.st ereophile.com/digitalsourcereviews/934/index5.html >
ahref=http://www.stereophile.com/digitalsourcerev
It did very, very well on all those regular THD, SNR, etc. tests. "better many CD players". Given the limitations of the size and availability of power (battery can't come close to a wall socket in ability to deliver oomph), it is a near miracle.
Of course, much of that miracle came from Wolfson (the DAC used in the iPod), and so all the iPod competitors can do the same if they just get the analog parts on the output amps right.
But anyone who says the iPod is objectively bad on audio quality is off their rocker. It may be bested in some areas, but the differences between the iPod and its competitors (especially in the negative direction) are miniscule compared to the overall excellence of any of these devices.
I mean, seriously, bitching about 96dB S/N instead of 100dB? The average background sound level in a room is 40dB or more, so you can't get even 96dB S/N to your ears unless the peaks of the music are hitting 136dB. Is your system doing that? And besides that, these S/N tests show the iPod clears 100dB by a little bit anyway.
As to your bass compaints (which are spot on), perhaps under all this pressure, Apple has seen the light with the Nano, we'll have to see some measurements. Note that into a high impedance (line level) input, even the mini has no bass problems, even from the headphone out. Because the output caps create a rolloff filter with the impedance of the load. On 16 or 32 ohm headphones, the rolloff might be distressingly high (40Hz?), but when you kick the load impedance up to 1K ohms, as a line level input is, the rolloff retreats down to below 10Hz.
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
Saw this the other day and it made me laugh... suddenly it's relevant to a /. article! Check it out... it's pretty funny.
10100111001
What impresses me the most about the new played is that it's flash based, instead of hard drive based. In the past, my mp3 players that were HD based had a lot of problems with durability.
I currently use a Rio Karma (which I'd love and recommend, if it held up well), but I travel with my player too much, including biking. HD based players are much more easily ruined by jaring motions, drops, etc. Your HD begins to degrade, sometimes songs skip or the player freezes up. Perhaps you cant use the full capacity of the player for very long.
Since an music player is mostly in 'read' mode, the fact that flash memory will eventually wear out is very acceptable. The nano should last until a much nicer player comes out that has a much higher capacity for the form factor.
I've never been interested in apple products before (my rio does a lot more than the apple products do - ogg support, better playlist support, DJ modes, etc), but it's on it's way out, due to the HD. When it dies, I know where i'll be looking next...
The reason the iPod has been doing so poorly in Korea, Taiwan and elsewhere in Southeast Asia is size. People there like their mp3 players TINY -- they don't give a guff for capacity as long as it's super-small and shockproof. The Shuffle was a step in the right direction, but without a display its capabilities were limited. The Nano is perfectly poised to make serious inroads into the Asian mp3 player arena, if they market it well enough.
Now if they added recording capabilities (which Asian students often use to record lectures, for some reason), the Japanese manufacturers would really start to sweat.
Someone else already said it, but this guy clearly doesn't know very much about technology. He thinks the Nano is powering the output of his car's stereo? Come on!
I'm an iPod fan myself - I own a 3rd generation 10gb - but Apple really needs to start doing something with the iPod other than making it smaller and changing the screen. I mean, come on, the "photo" thing is useless. There's absolutely no reason for an iPod to have a color screen. They should be adding new functionality that's actually useful... recording, anyone? Radio, perhaps? But of course, that would probably make the iPod less profitable. Bah.
Gapless playback would be great, too. I'm sure they could do that with a firmware update, so what are they waiting for?
Oh, and they really need to do away with the white and silver design. I know it's popular, but the Mini didn't look like that, and it still sold well. The white and silver design sucks. It looks really pretty - until you take it out of the box. Every time you touch it, you're going to leave a finger print on there, even if you wash your hands first. And don't even think about putting it in your pocket if you don't want to scratch it. Cases don't help. While they're at it, they could make the battery removable...
Of course, it doesn't really matter. People will keep buying them, and I'll certainly keep using mine. But the iPod is hardly as perfect as some people seem to think it is.
I'm a mac fan. I love the computers.
I really was only ever interested in the iPod for the storage capacity though, and then a little bit of brand prefference.
I was in a store that got a supply of the nano, and the eather hit the air strong!
Looking at the internet doesn't do this thing justice. I can only equate the size to about that of a remote to a car stereo(if you're even familiar with those).
This unit is beyond description after that.
Nothing will truely give you the idea of how genuinely awesome this unit is until you hold it.
The black ones will be in short supply soon, I garuntee it. In my opinion, this is one of the best designs Apple has done to date. I really encourage everyone to find a store and check them out!
The reason the ipod sounds horrible when you use the equalizer is not really the ipod's fault. It is your mp3s that are at fault. The reason they sound so bad is they are recorded at a level that leaves no room to boost any frequencies without distortion... let me explain. The EQ in the ipod is a digital one, and a digital signal can only be so loud before it runs out of bits and is clipped. Most songs are recorded right up to this digital limit of volume level to get the highest signal to noise ratio possible, but this also leaves no room for boosting using a digital EQ. Therefore any EQ setting on the ipod that is trying to boost frequencies can lead to severe clipping causeing the sound to be horrible even at low headphone volume level. The solution is to lower the volume of your MP3s that you load onto your ipod leaving room for the EQ to do its job without clipping. You can do this using various software, but the one I like most is called MP3Gain (google search for it). You just set what target dB level you want, it it changes the headers of your mp3s to reach that level, without changing the actual data of the MP3 itself (it only changes the header to use a multiplier of sorts to adjust volume). When you load these adjusted MP3s into your IPOD you will find you can use all the EQ settings with absolutely NO distortion at any headphone volume. And because the final amp of the IPOD is so good you will still get ear shattering volume despite the MP3s being slightly lower in volume. The difference in sound quality is stunning! Try it! No more shying away from using the EQ (which is a very high quality one in the ipod). There is lots of info around about this topic, just do a google search for ipod EQ distortion, and you will find more detailed info on why this works. Hope this helps!
http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2005/0908/nano
Emerald Astrology
I almost replied to this before, but decided not to. But now it's been modded up? Bizarre. It barely even makes sense.
Maybe I'll explain it simply for you:
1) Most people listen to their iPod in their pocket (or clipped to something). Presumably you would rather not be linked to a bag by a headphone cable if possible.
2) Pockets are quite small containers, often pressed up against skin by the outer layer of material of clothing. They are most commonly available on humans around the thigh region, or in warmer weather requiring a coat, around the waist area.
3) Pockets are available in a range of sizes. In many cases, large pocket size is sacrificed for the fashion or style of the containing garment. In warm weather, wearing a jacket to provide a large pocket may be uncomfortable, leaving only smaller thigh-region pockets for storage (buttock-region pockets may also be available, but are not favoured due to the difficulty in sitting down when they are full.)
4) Large items in too-small trouser pockets either make the human wearing the trousers look like a sex offender (if the pocket-owning human is male) or press against their leg, causing discomfort.
4) We can conclude from the previous four statements that, for many people, smaller iPods are desirable.