Sony Ericsson's P990 Smartphone Released

Dynamoo writes "After months of rumors, Sony Ericsson has finally announced their P990 Symbian smartphone. Packing both UMTS (3G) and WiFi in addition to a 2 megapixel digital camera and a host of other goodies, the P990 looks like it will be a shot in the arm for the Symbian camp. There's no indication of a US release for this handset, but the rest of the world can expect to see it early next year."

Comments

Immediate Recall

[Anonymous Coward]

Ericsson later recalled the product, observing "We were so keen to cram in so much shit you'll never, ever use, that we forgot to make it work as an actual phone."

Re:Immediate Recall

[Anonymous Coward]

There's no indication of a US release for this handset

Yes, why should they? US-Americans will buy all kinds of complete, utter crap, but would not recognize a good product if you smash in their fat, hideous "face" with it.

Why did VHS succeed? Why did CDs last when MDs whare out? Why do they buy NVIDIA graphic-cards instead of passively-cooled ATI-cards vastly outperforming them? Why do they pay 75 Dollars for XP Home Edition with their WalMart-PC?

Re:Immediate Recall

[Anonymous Coward]

Lynn-ucks like teh butt seks.

Re:Immediate Recall

[JohnnyBigodes]

Why do they buy NVIDIA graphic-cards instead of passively-cooled ATI-cards vastly outperforming them?

That was two years ago, right? And I think you're quite wrong about the "passively-cooled" part. Above the absolute lowest video cards, there are almost none that are passively cooled, whether from nVidia or ATI.

Re:Immediate Recall

[eqkivaro]

Why did VHS succeed?

One word: PORN

Re:Immediate Recall

[D'Sphitz]

I don't know why but i'm sensing an anti-american vibe from you.

Re:Immediate Recall

[VagaStorm]

I'd like to anser the nvidia thing even tho I'm not an american. I just switched my pasivly cooled ati card for an nvidia crad caus they're giving me desent drivers for linux :p ATI is better than they where, but fact is that nothing played and my screen flikered in 3d like nothing I have ever seen before :/ I'm happy now.

And that phone nice, over priced, but stil nice :)

2megapixel is pretty impressive quality

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm not one for convergence devices but 2 megapixel is pretty dang good quality for photos, easily enough for snapshots to be printed on 6x4. I wouldn't be surprised if this generation of phones eats into the existing digital camera market pretty heavily, where people might sacrifice 4MP (who really needs that much for snapshots) when they can get about the same in their cell.

Re:2megapixel is pretty impressive quality

[bedroll]

2 megapixel is impressive quantity. For quality you have to see the content of the pictures to judge their image's correctness.

Re:2megapixel is pretty impressive quality

[SillyNickName4me]

For what I have seen you do not want to make prints from pictures made with a phone camera.

Not untill the optics and sensor in the typical phone camera get a lot better. Substantial distorition at the edges of the picture, noise and bad colors and such are the primary reasons why pictures with the cameras in the last geenration of phones still look crappy compared to any somewhat decent compact digital camera with the same resolution. They will however cut away the market for real low-end digicams.

Re:2megapixel is pretty impressive quality

[Anonymous Coward]

People should be careful not to assume that more megapixels means too much.

The reason even a sub-1 MP camera phone takes such crappy pictures is mostly because of the lens. 640 x 480 = 307,200. That's 0.3 megapixels, and is quite sufficient for most pictures that one might want to snap in a hurry as in most cases where one might resort to using a phone as their camera. But no camera phone that I've ever seen has ever had a lens and circuitry subsystem that produced even mediocre pictures at even that resolution.

Until we see larger, telescoping lenses on camera phones (oh, may Heaven ever forbid this), megapixel ratings on camera phones are a red herring, like incredible signal response ratings on $5 headphones.

Re:2megapixel is pretty impressive quality

[mustafap]

I think you should look carefully at the lens technology first before making that judgement. No amount of pixels will help a poor quality plastic lens.

Re:2megapixel is pretty impressive quality

[otis wildflower]

Close enough for horseshoes, hand grenades, government work, or grassroots journalism....

Re:2megapixel is pretty impressive quality

[pommiekiwifruit]

Already done for my last few holidays (Sony Ericsson K750i also has 2 megapixels). Printing them out at 6x4 inches works fine.

Carrying your phone around is more convenient than a bulky camera, but the long time to setup the autofocus (seconds) can be annoying, as is the fact that it takes the picture some time *after* it makes the "click" noise and people have faced away again.

However, it is nice to be able to capture (somewhat grainy) pictures at night and get detail beyond the reach of a flash.

It would be nice if standard phones were more ruggedised though (i.e. waterproof).

Re:2megapixel is pretty impressive quality

[NotWorkSafe]

grassroots journalism....

Is that what people are calling MySpace now? Sheesh...

Re:2megapixel is pretty impressive quality

[Nichotin]

Thei look like this: Image taken by k750i

Re:2megapixel is pretty impressive quality

[dimension6]

I'm now using a Sharp 903SH, with 3.2 megapixels and 2X optical zoom, and I'm getting rid of my separate digital camera. I hate carrying lots of objects around with me, so I'm very happy that there is finally a phone with camera that takes passable photos. By the way, it works on US T-Mobile, and in Japan.

With all those gadgets...

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm sure the battery life is great!

Sony, still sticking it to the consumers

[yagu]

from the article: Internal memory is 80Mb, and this is expandable through Sony Memory Stick Pro Duo cards (64Mb is included, 2Gb maximum).

'Nuff said.

Enough with the proprietary memory stick technology already!

I hate company's that use a stick to sell their product.

A memory carrot would be more to my liking. (Can you say SD, or MMC?)

Re:Sony, still sticking it to the consumers

[kylegordon]

99.9% of '5 in 1' memory card readers can read memory sticks. I don't see what your problem is.

Re:Sony, still sticking it to the consumers

[Anonymous Coward]

Not to mention memory sticks are a ripoff. I went to Froogle and just picked the top results:

1 GB MMC - $64.99
1 GB SD - $67.99
1 GB Memory Stick - $79.88

Why is the memory stick significantly more than the other two?

Re:Sony, still sticking it to the consumers

[DarkYoshi]

Memory sticks cost nearly twice as much as CompactFlash or SD cards.

Re:Sony, still sticking it to the consumers

[emj]

Well SD would be fine and dandy if there was no license issues. You have to pay alot of money to the SD consortium for using the SD standard, among the members is Microsoft. Did you know that the spec is closed as well so you can't release drivers under opensource.

Proprietary formats sucks.

Re:Sony, still sticking it to the consumers

[tehwebguy]

i could be wrong, but i believe that memory sticks were first introduced when the best (maybe only) available card formats were the compact flash card (which is anything but compact) and smartmedia, which is obsolete according to wikipedia.

while sony has surely made some serious profits off having a proprietary memory card, it seems to have helped them make all of their devices able to share cards, which helps people like me that have owned multiple sony products at a time.

cameras that feature their newest format, the memory stick duo, (or maybe it was new duo sticks) initially came with "adapter sticks". they are shaped and sized like regular memory sticks, and accept the much smaller duo.

while there's still proprietary hardware, it's good hardware and they have take some steps to make it hurt the consumer as little as possible. in the end, i'd say that's a lot better than companies like nikon using standardized memory cards, but drm'ing the software..

Re:Sony, still sticking it to the consumers

[skiflyer]

One of the fun things about smartphones is you can pop out your SD or CF card from your camera and show everyone your just taken pics on a much larger screen.... yes you can now do this if you stick solely with sony... but you're limited.

(I'm stuck too, I have a CF camera and a SD phone)

Re:Sony, still sticking it to the consumers

[SillyNickName4me]

Welcome to this new age where you have memory cards that can be used by devices from more then one brand...

Re:Sony, still sticking it to the consumers

[Alex P Keaton in da]

Uh- Bad naming. Seriously, how many people are going to do a search and leave out the M due to a typo. Search for Sybian. Seriously. It is a sex machine... Don't they test these names?

Re:Sony, still sticking it to the consumers

[UtterRubbish]

Now if only people could remember when to use apostrophes.

Re:Sony, still sticking it to the consumers

[otis wildflower]

Er, that's how much I paid for my 128mb MSDuo... a year ago :p

Re:Sony, still sticking it to the consumers

[Taladar]

My theory is that this is the marketing equivalent to easter eggs in software.

Re:Sony, still sticking it to the consumers

[speculatrix]

while sony has surely made some serious profits off having a proprietary memory card, it seems to have helped them make all of their devices able to share cards, which helps people like me that have owned multiple sony products at a time.

you imply there's just one type of Sony Memory Stick... let's count them, shall we?

• original memory stick
• magicgate memory stick
• memory stick select (same as original only 2 banks, with a switch)
• memory stick duo (thinner, shorter)
• memory stick pro (same as original only more capacity)
• magicgate memory stick pro (same as original only more capacity)
• newly released minute memory stick

some of the smaller units can be used with adaptors to fit into older larger sockets, but older kit which doesn't know about the Pro sticks can't touch them.

the only Sony products I have are a camcorder (because it was the only true 16:9 sensor camcorder at the time, and I don't care about the stills function and the memory stick), and a Wega flat screen TV (which isn't actually as good as Sony zealots say, but it's half decent)... I'd never buy a Sony product which depended solely on their proprietary technology to work such as a still ms-only digicam.

Re:Sony, still sticking it to the consumers

[cgenman]

A: When Sony released the Memory Stick, MMC cards were widely available (SD cards, basically, without the copyprotection).

B: Try going 100% Compact Flash sometime. Not only can you use devices from multiple manufacturers, but you have no upper limit on size. We have an old digital camera here that came out when 16MB CF cards were considered large. Now we have a 1GB card in it, and it chugs along happily. If I need a little extra space, I can jam one of the many old cards into my PDA. Up or down, you have complete compatibility.

I can't say the same for my Sony devices, where some take the original Memory Stick, some take Memory Stick Pro, some only take Memory Stick Duo... and none of which get large enough for serious use. I'm still shocked that a lot of Memory Stick devices can only take 128, 256, or 512BM MAXIMUM card sizes. The old devices are now far less useful, as data expands... a CF-based MP3 player from 1998 is as useful today as when it was bought, as the capacity can expand up to the size of an iPod Nano, but a Memory Stick based MP3 player would be stuck at 128 MB. Why create a standard that is incompatible with future upgrades?

C: SD cards are still smaller than Memory Stick Duo cards, have more capacity, are cheaper... Oh, and are a standard that multiple manufacturers support, not just one. You can buy a Palm Pilot, or a Kodak Camera, or an HP Pocket PC device that all support the same Memory Card. Want to buy a PDA that's compatible with your memory sticks? Sorry, Sony got out of that market.

And while SD cards aren't as upwardly compatible as CF cards (there is a maximum size each generation supports), they're a heck of a lot smaller than both CF or Memory Sticks.

D: Did I mention that even amongst Sony's line there are incompatibilities? It was nice of them to ship "adaptor sticks" with their new cameras, but I've never needed an adaptor for CF. If they keep changing it, it's not a "standard."

There is a reason why professional photographers will only shoot on CF. If you want high capacity and flexibility, you need CF. If you want small space and low power consumption, you want SD. There is really no reason for memory sticks to exist at all, as they don't do anything better than either of the two dominant standards.

Re:Sony, still sticking it to the consumers

[Transmogrify_UK]

How are you limited? If you have a memory stick using product (mobile phone, sony digital camera etc. etc.) then you're more than likely to be able to read memory sticks on your PC. So how exactly are you limited? I have a sony camera and sony ericsson phone. I can read data from both these devices on my PC with no problems or limitations whatsoever.

Re:Sony, still sticking it to the consumers

[skiflyer]

You're limited in the number of vendors you can choose from when you buy a phone or a camera if you already have one of the two.

It's a simple matter of standards... right now we have 3 or 4... so you have to mix and match appropriately... memory stick sucks because it's attached to a single vendor.

Works out for you because you bought all sony in the camera and phone department.

Re:Sony, still sticking it to the consumers

[Transmogrify_UK]

I also have a Sony PSP (MS Duo), and a Fuji camera which uses CF and XD memory cards. I'm not really that concerned because while there are so many standards (CF, MS, XD, SD/MMC and now the tiny versions of most of the above), so say we have "standards" is pretty much irrelevant. Different vendors of phones/cameras/pdas etc. will all use whatever memory card type they choose to so you're more than likely going to need memory cards of varying types anyway. That and the price of flash memory cards being so low, amounts to it not making much difference. I certainly wouldn't choose a camera, phone, mp3 player, or PDA based on it's memory card type. It's almost a completely irrelevant factor.

Re:Sony, still sticking it to the consumers

[Hast]

Memory stick DUO is significantly smaller than those other formats you mention. If you get eg mini-SD which is about the same size as MS Duo then the price increases.

I've had to buy 3 different formats of memory cards (for phone, PSP, and cameras). Most of my devices actually use MS, but that doesn't really matter since even if all my devices used the same memory type I'd probably to have to get one for each of them anyways.

Re:Sony, still sticking it to the consumers

[Hast]

Just to correct you a bit since duo cards are actually smaller than SD. (And about half the thickness I believe.) Mini-SD is smaller though. (And I know becuase I have a bunch of them laying around my workspace.)

CF is only really suitable for dSLR cameras since those are going to be really big anyways. There's not much use in having smaller cards in one of those.

And now MS cards are available from multiple vendors so there's not much more proprietary than SD.

Re:Sony, still sticking it to the consumers

[Doppler00]

Because if it wasn't for Sony we would have '4 in 1' memory card readers. In fact, if you forget about Smartmedia which is obsolete, you really should only need SD/MM and Compact Flash. Seeing an expansion bay in my computer with 6 different slots in it as a result of companies arguing to eachother over standards is just sad.

Don't you remember what life was like with parallel ports, serial ports, PS/2 ports, etc.... they have all been replaced by USB and life is good now. Why can't we do the same thing for memory?

Re:Sony, still sticking it to the consumers

[skiflyer]

Right now for you that's fine... not the same for everyone as this thread points out... I really wish my camera used SD right now, it would've saved me about 100 dollars, and would've given me added functionallity... I'm glad it's not an issue for you though.

Re:Sony, still sticking it to the consumers

[Man in Spandex]

Enough with the proprietary memory stick technology already!

Yesyes, because we all know that 90%, heck even 60% of the consumers spend their time messing around with hardware and developing for an open format.

I hate company's that use a stick to sell their product.

Oh wow. I didn't know it was abnormal for a company to support its products. If you had a company and your company created some kind of USB-like device claiming that it's as good if not, better than USB Memory Keys and your company ends up using USB keys, I'll bet my last dollar that you wouldn't be too happy about it. They spend time and millions researching and developing into whatever project and you expect the company to just ditch it and support things made by other companies?

A memory carrot would be more to my liking. (Can you say SD, or MMC?)

If you want SD go with an SD-compatible Device. End of story. I'm surprised that it surprised you that Sony would use memory stick. There is a long history behind Sony renown to work hard in pushing its closed/proprietary formats (betamax, minidisc, memory stick, etc.) so really, no need for bitching about the obvious. It took how long for Sony to start supporting mp3's on their minidiscs and other mp3 players? They tried hard with the ATRAC format but they recognized a problem, that it sucked and that mp3 was to widespread so they fixed that after years of sticking up to their ambition.

Re:Sony, still sticking it to the consumers

[Cederic]

>> Want to buy a PDA that's compatible with your memory sticks? Sorry, Sony got out of that market.

That's a comical statement to make replying to a Slashdot article about a new.... Sony PDA. Which takes memory sticks.

Re:Sony, still sticking it to the consumers

[jrumney]

And now MS cards are available from multiple vendors so there's not much more proprietary than SD.

You mean SanDisk and rebadged OEM SanDisk?

Are there actually any other manufacturers of either Memory Sticks or SD cards?

2 MP?

[DigitalOSH]

2 MP? is it just me or are they getting better and better? sounds like a handy device!

Re:2 MP?

[baryon351]

> 2 MP? is it just me or are they getting better and better?

Maybe.

2MP is just how well the camera captures the image through the lens. if the lens is shit (and it's a very small nonfocusing lens, so for many people it's shit) all you're getting is a higher resolution version of the same washed out, blurred, chromatically-distorted fisheye photos that every other camera gives.

You can get very small lenses that aren't shit, but they cost more than this entire phone would.

Re:2 MP?

[slipnslidemaster]

2MP is good but does it have a flash? I didn't see it in the article. These cameraphones can have all the megawhatits they want but without a flash, the pictures are still crappy 9 times out of 10.

Re:2 MP?

[slipnslidemaster]

I totally agree. I hate the fact that the camera part of the cameraphone is crap. Drives me nuts.

I wonder if that liquid lense system combined with a small flash will improve dramatically the quality of current cameraphones without dramatically increasing the form factor or killing the battery. I know the flash will drain the battery a lot but will the focusing system of the liquid lense drain the life as well?

Re:2 MP?

[Anonymous Coward]

2 MP? is it just me or are they getting better and better?

Yeah, who would have ever thought that technology would improve over time?

Re:2 MP?

[zeth]

It is using the same camera as their K750 phone. I have taken some shots with it and they look really amazing, being taken with a mobile camera that is.

Re:2 MP?

[DigitalOSH]

"Yeah, who would have ever thought that technology would improve over time?" thanks dickwad.

Re:2 MP?

[matthew.thompson]

The specs claim that the lens is autofocus-able. SE have ben carping on about autofocus phones for quite a few months now.

Re:2 MP?

[dim5]

Meh. Who cares about quality?

You forget the most important thing about increased resolution. It's now easier than ever to send ridiculously huge email attachments of your ugly grandchildren to everybody in your freaking contact list.

Re:2 MP?

[Tetsugaku-San]

It is a focusing lense, the one on my SE K750 has two lanses and teeny tiny motors to focus very sharply, even has a macro mode to take pics about 5 cm away, not too shabby for a phone.

Re:2 MP?

[tengwar]

I have a SE V800, which I think runs at 1.3Mp. The still pictures are actually not bad - video is pretty awful, but that's the processor speed and excessive compression.

Why all the Cameras?

[LexNaturalis]

Nearly all the news phones released lately have digital cameras in them. This poses a problem for me, because I'm unable to bring anything into my place of employment that has a camera on it. Some of these new phones are fantastic, but I won't be purchasing them because I'd be unable to bring them to work with me. I'm sure folks in my situation are in a minority, but it's frustrating sometimes to know that something neat like this it out of your grasp.

Re:Why all the Cameras?

[spazimodo]

Get a blackberry - they specifically don't include cameras because their data security conscious customers (govt military, etc.) are concerned about them.

Re:Why all the Cameras?

[pixas]

SonyEricsson is working on a phone aimed at people just like you. A 3G smartphone without camera, with high security encryption and built in VPN features. No one outside SEMC* knows anyting about the announcement date yet though... but hang in there!

* SonyEricsson Mobile Communications

Re:Why all the Cameras?

[Hrodvitnir]

Get a blackberry

I'd hold off on that for the moment.

Re:Why all the Cameras?

[garcia]

I'm sure folks in my situation are in a minority, but it's frustrating sometimes to know that something neat like this it out of your grasp.

There are plenty of folks in your situation and they are all quite vocal about it. I tend to agree with you but there are always some slimmed down versions of phones which are available for people in your situation. I have two friends that cannot bring cameras into work. One bought a lower end model phone for $49 and uses that. The other just doesn't bring his phone into work.

As for the rest of the people buying phones out there... 90% of those people have no use for a camera phone and rarely use it at all. If they do use it, it's for crappy photos of their friends while drinking. Yeah, we've all heard a couple of stories where teenaged girls took photos of attacker's license plates, etc.

Some people, like me, enjoy having a phone on their Internet connected phone and use it more than the rest of the public. I have a mobile gallery where I dump all my photos from my phone. Some of those end up on my website in stories about restaurants or some dumb bullshit my friends and my wife did.

So, while they aren't great for everyone and aren't used by most, they are still a useful addition IMHO.

Re:Why all the Cameras?

[Fishstick]

uh, yeah -- you can probably pick up one up real cheap now

Re:Why all the Cameras?

[un1xl0ser]

A minority, true, but not a small minority.

Any company that does research and development should have policies about cameras. Some military jobs probably have similar restrictions.

I had jury duty recently, and was not able to bring in a camera phone.

Re:Why all the Cameras?

[otis wildflower]

Cameras can also be handy after an auto accident, like the one I was in last friday. The resolution is good enough for snapping license/insurance/registration as a backup for handwriting, and taking pix of the damage can be helpful as well.

Also, 'citizen journalism'. Camphones are a big win here, and videophones look to be even better.

Also, on my last Grand Tour of Continental Europe, I used my P800's cam to take _all_ my pix, as my PowerShot had given up the ghost a short time before. Even without flash or focus, I could get decent results, especially when watching them as a TV slideshow.

I kind of tune out the 'device purity wars', since in the end it keeps sounding like old coots whingeing about the 'good old days'..

Re:Why all the Cameras?

[Nightspirit]

Samsung i730.
Great phone, no camera.

Re:Why all the Cameras?

[haggar]

Well, there are excellent phones with a miriad of features (PDA combo) that have been made exactly for the kind of market that you represent. Nokia has been extremely responsive, I think, by releasing the 9300. I have seen it, looks great, really sleek. And, no camera - on purpose!

Re:Why all the Cameras?

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you work in a strip club?

Re:Why all the Cameras?

[Achromatic1978]

The 9300 is great. But you're a bit behind the times: the 9500, with WiFi, has been out for over 6 months.

But they are lovely. *pets his*

Re:Why all the Cameras?

[haggar]

I am not behind the times, it is you who doesn't bother to read the context of the discussion: the parent poster was wondering about phones without cameras, which the 9300 is, and the 9500 isn't.

And the 9500 has been out for more than a year and a half, not 6 months. clicky
Definitely, you are the one behind the times, and you even proved it yourself.

I think the 9500 is excellent. Still the best phone-kind-of-thing on the market, and quite classy, too (only beaten by the Nokia 8800).

Re:Why all the Cameras?

[bumby]

The camera-module is removable. No solding required. Just open the phone and unplug the module. At least that is the case on their T610 and nearby models.
Good luck.

Re:Why all the Cameras?

[da_matta]

Any company that does research and development should have policies about cameras. Some military jobs probably have similar restrictions.

When it comes to R&D, military or industrial espionage in general, camera phones are actually quite irrelevant. There are plenty of much smaller and better quality "spy cameras" available. So, banning camera phones in work places is mainly an inconvenience of the employees, who suddenly need a separate phone for work (as most consumer phones come with cameras). But device manufacturers are happy to sell the corporations the same phones again, just without a camera.

When it comes to invation of privacy, question of camera phones becomes more relevant. If everyone has a camera with them at all times, chances of someoney taking pictures they shouldn't be taking increases.

Re:Why all the Cameras?

[un1xl0ser]

I wasn't saying that it is logical in any way shape or form. :-)

The courthouse that I went to had a bunch of problems. They stated that there can be no A/V recording devices or cameras. Any cell phone could be used to transmit audio. My mp3 player (which was allowed in) can record to mp3 with it's built-in microphone or 1/8" jack line-in.

The security guard did not have the technical skills to evaluate whether the device was an obvious threat. That does not mean that he should be prepared for any possible custom spy device, or that a courthouse should be that paranoid.

I think that spy cameras and other equipment could be near eliminated with trained eyes looking at the baggage. I'm not sure how much of it could be automated with a computer, but it shouldn't be that difficult to detect camera lenses, microphones, hard drives et cetera. Where it may get real tricky is detecting removable media. Chips look like chips to me. :-)

Blackberry

[Hey Pope Felcher . .]

Sony Ericsson say that the P990 can support all major push email protocols, including Blackberry.

. . . so this can replace my soon to be defunct Blackberry?

Now will someone tell me why all interesting new gadgetery is so slow to be released in the US.

Re:Blackberry

[Achromatic1978]

In terms of mobile telecommunications? Because, seriously, you guys are YEARS behind the rest of the world. The rest of the world was implementing stuff like 3G nearly half a decade ago. CDMA EV-DO, burstable data speeds to 2.4mbps/3mbps has been around for at least 12-18 months.

I listen to friends in the US complain that their provider doesn't even offer text messaging.

I want a DUMB phone

[Jherek Carnelian]

Can anyone recommend a high-quality DUMB phone?

These are features I'm looking for:

o) No camera
o) No games
o) No Java
o) No blue-tooth/wi-fi
o) Just a really big phonebook + clock
o) Really, really, small
o) Really, really tough (titanium alloy? liquid metal?)
o) Lots of stand-by time, lots of talk-time
o) Fast (and quiet) power on/off times
o) GSM (my current carrier is T-Mobile)

Re:I want a DUMB phone

[Wesley Felter]

How about the RAZR? You can just ignore the features you don't use. (You'll never find a phone that meets that whole list, because that market is too small.)

Re:I want a DUMB phone

[korbin_dallas]

Amen brother.

I went to the site to look at that ugly monstrosity.

I agree with you.

How about a phone the size of a Ipod tiny, or whatever its called?

Better , a credit card sized phone that has great signal, 48hr standby, 3 hrs talk and a ubiquitous usb recharge so I can recharge from any pc?

And another clue, it doesn't even need a display you know.

I have a REX6000, a pcmcia size device, and I love it. A cell phone in that form factor would be awesome.

Re:I want a DUMB phone

[AnonymousYellowBelly]

I would say:
- Small, but not stupidly that I cannot use the keys
- Wouldn't care if it had java or games, but would ask for a LOGICAL and USEFUL way of navigating options (I hate my Motorola C350)
- Though? It better not use iPod nano materials ;-)

Re:I want a DUMB phone

[Hrodvitnir]

This looks right up your alley.

Re:I want a DUMB phone

[Jherek Carnelian]

How about the RAZR? You can just ignore the features you don't use.

I think the camera is mandatory on the razr. For my needs (if I told you, I would have to kill you) there must be no camera, and simply breaking the camera is not enough to pass muster.

Re:I want a DUMB phone

[DarkYoshi]

I have an old Sanyo dual mode phone, with a monochrome screen for extra battery life. I'll sell it to you for as much as a RAZR costs, and you can pretend that you're just ignoring the features.

Re:I want a DUMB phone

[Dysproxia]

How about a Nokia 1100?

It does have one extra feature, a flashlight, but I'm sure you can put tape over it and pretend it's not there.
It also isn't really, really small, because like most phones it has buttons, a screen and a microphone + speaker combination.
It isn't made of liquid metal, but seems to have non-slippery sides.

Re:I want a DUMB phone

[Anonymous Coward]

And another clue, it doesn't even need a display you know.

Why would you want a phone without a display? Without a display you can't see who's calling, meaning you can't decide if you should answer or hang up when your phone rings.

Re:I want a DUMB phone

[Anonymous Coward]

I have a ten year old GE phone at home. It has no display, it's not even cordless. Works perfectly fine for me. I don't need anything more in a cellphone either. Yes, there was life before caller id and voicemail.

Re:I want a DUMB phone

[shawb]

You could always go with this tiny monstrosity. The 7280 is VERY tiny. It does have a very small display, but it doesn't even have number keys. Granted, it's not meant to be your primary cell-phone, just one for a night out on the town (and that means it does have camera functionality.) From what I'd guess, you basically transfer numbers from another phone or your computer or something like that, then select which one to call.

I personally think it's really not $500, but looking at the pictures of the people using them I really don't get the feeling that I'm the target demographic here (even though I do have the tiny iPod shuffle, which is pretty much the same size. But then again I did carry an MP3 diskman around before a cellphone... maybe Apple will come out with an iPhone shuffle that just calls random people in your phone book?)

Re:I want a DUMB phone

[tehwebguy]

you are just like me!

the nokia 8890 -- out of production for years, available for around $100 on ebay (i got one for $75 and i love it so much)

let me go through your checklist though:

o) No camera - check
o) No games - hardly any games
o) No Java - check
o) No blue-tooth/wi-fi - check
o) Just a really big phonebook + clock - check
o) Really, really, small - check
o) Really, really tough (titanium alloy? liquid metal?) - check (kind of)
o) Lots of stand-by time, lots of talk-time - check (kind of)
o) Fast (and quiet) power on/off times - check!!!
o) GSM (my current carrier is T-Mobile) - check

as far as games go, it has the standard nokia games (snake, memory, something else), as far as toughness, it is aluminum. it can get banged up if you don't treat it right, but it looks awesome. as far as talk time, mine has an old battery so i don't really know. i charge it every other night probably.

it turns off upon holding the power button for 1.5 - 2 seconds and doesn't make a sound. turning it on is the same, and it is at the menu in under 4 or 5 seconds. the phonebook loads faster than my newer color samsung crap.

it is a world phone and will work on t-mobile. all i did was buy one and pop the sim card in.

if you buy one on ebay, obviously make sure it is unlocked or is locked for t-mobile or voicestream

Re:I want a DUMB phone

[skiflyer]

You can have a dumb phone, I want a phone with easy buttons.

My god, I picked up my sister's 3 year old motorolla to make a call the other day, and it was wonderful, I pushed 10 numbers, and it took them all.

My current motorolla I have to watch the display as I key in numbers as the 5 works about 30% of the time, the 6 about 80% and the rest are all right, but are so small compared to the dead space that I miss them on occassion.

And my Treo... that's a great phone, but good god man, there's no good way to dial it without looking directly at it and really focussing, the buttons are tiny, and the touch screen has no context... I like the approach they took with this phone, I hope those keys are actually good and easy to use.

Re:I want a DUMB phone

[MoonBuggy]

I don't see why these comments always come up. There are plenty of "dumb" phones. Nokia 1100, as mentioned above, would be my preference to meet your criteria, although the 8910 (NOT the 8910i, that i makes alot of difference) does have your requested titanium alloy casing it's got bluetooth too, but you can always (gasp) switch it off. Alternatively buy any of the older models (3310, 3410, Ericsson T28, Siemens A50 etc.) from eBay with a new battery.

Basic phones don't get ./ stories because there's already plenty to choose from any (suprisingly enough) they don't compete on features like smartphones do. If you want one, buy one.

Re:I want a DUMB phone

[itomato]

I thought that - I was wrong.

The RAZR is crap. It's svelte crap, but crap to be sure.

The UI is needlessly complex, compared to a NOKIA at least.
The ringer volume is too low
There are too many buttons & too many features
The vibrate is too gentle

Bluetooth? Not on a simple phone..
MP3 ringtones? Not on a simple phone..
Camera? Not on a simple phone..

The problem is, to get a phone with few features, you're getting a phone that's ugly, big, and uses less-than-high-end components. It's free, there are plenty of cases & replacement batteries for it, but a crap phone is a crap phone.

Where's that high-end Finnish phone from a few years ago? Ultimately simplistic, and incredibly well-designed. Tone that down to meet the $299 price point, and I'm in!

Re:I want a DUMB phone

[jonathan3003]

I think this one comes very close to what you are asking for:

http://www.nokia.ca/english/products/3120/3120_fea tures.asp

I had it for a while (until it was stolen), and was very happy with it. It is small (but not too small for my taste), no blue-tooth, normal address book, tough (I dropped it many many times - not on purpose, of course), fast, GSM, and with a cool speaker phone which I liked.
It has java-based games, but I never used them.

Too bad it's gone :(

Re:I want a DUMB phone

[gnalre]

As a matter of interest, why no bluetooth?

It the only thing on a mobiler phone I really wanted, since it allows me to phone handsfree(illegal to phone on the move in the UK). Unfortunately this seems to be considered a high end feature so I had to buy a phone with a lot of other rubbish(camera, etc) just to get the one feature I did want.

My perfect phone would be the above+bluetooth, since it allows you to connect with your other high end devices if you wish later

Re:I want a DUMB phone

[alonso]

Buy nokia
6020(150-100) no camera, no bluetooth
6021(200-100) no camera, bluetooth

my own:
nokia 3100(99, voda one 69) is fantastic is a 6xxx in a semitransparent cover, of course you can change it(ebay 6)

Re:I want a DUMB phone

[bazorg]

Just get a basic one!

Nokia 1100 or 2600

Sony Ericsson T100 or T290

Motorola C115 or V171

Siemens A52, A62 or A70

there's plenty with other brands. just don't expect a mix of low end features with noble materials like titanium.. unless you get a phone with removable covers and manufacture your own...

Re:I want a DUMB phone

[MacGod]

Re: I want a super-simple phone.

You know, I used to think the same thing. All I wanted was a small, light, no-ringtones, no-camera, black-and-white-screen phone. But I just moved to the UK and bought a Samsung E350 slider phone. It has an MP3/AAC player, a camera, a colour screen, Java games and all that.

But you know what? It's small, the battery life is as good as any other phone I've ever owned (including black-and-white bare basics phones). It weighs next to nothing, the call quality is good, and I just don't use the games or any other extraneous features.

And wouldn't you know it? Within a day of getting the USb cable for the phone, I set my ringtone to an MP3 of the Star Wars theme song (from the Rebellion's medal ceremony at the end of A New Hope). And I took a goofy self-portrait for my wallpaper. Why not? It's fun, a little silly, but entertaining.

I think the "I just want a simple phone!" is at times overstated. What I really want is a phone that doesn't make too many compromises for extra features. I don't need video recording capabilities, but if it can add them without sacrificing size or battery life, I'm not too worried. And besides, I do like gadgets (and I can't imagine I'm alone in that regard, especially not on Slashdot), so why wouldn't I want my phone to be gadgety?

I think we geeks are just more sensitive to tradeoffs. There are a lot of phones that are heavy on features, but sacrifice basic useability to get there. The Microsoft Word of phones, if you will. But there also exist phones that are good compromises. Just don't use the features you don't need.

Re:I want a DUMB phone

[CrazyClimber]

You're forgetting "strong antenna."

And I *do* want bluetooth--that way I can get rid of the keypad and display and have a sealed case. When I need to input data, I pair it to my PC at home, and when I make a call I use a headset with voice recognition.

Re:I want a DUMB phone

[pwsegal]

Vodafone has just released a series of phones that meet the majority of your requirements.
Not sure about the really, really tough and there not really, really small.
Vodafone has a partnership with Verizon, so they may become available in the US in the future. Read about it here http://www.vodafone.com/article/0,3029,CATEGORY_ID %253D504%2526LANGUAGE_ID%253D0%2526CONTENT_ID%253D 258796,00.html?
and Vodafone New Zealand has more details http://www.vodafone.co.nz/mobiles/simply/index.htm l

Re:I want a DUMB phone

[ghunza]

How about a Nokia 6100? You can get them fairly cheaply these days. They are really small but the screen is quite big. Battery lasts for ages. You might be able to overlook the java given all the other benefits.

Re:I want a DUMB phone

[Dr. Sp0ng]

My perfect phone would be the above+bluetooth, since it allows you to connect with your other high end devices if you wish later

Not to mention sync your phone numbers with your computer.

Re:I want a DUMB phone

[xTantrum]

get a nokia 8890 or 88xx. I have the former for five years now, and each time a new phone comes out I check out all the crap they have on it and shake my head. Everyone is jumping on the bandwagon of half ass features that are only meant for content providers to make more money. These new phones suck!

Re:I want a DUMB phone

[dracken]

ummm - two pringles can and a string ?

Re:I want a DUMB phone

[Anonymous Coward]

Enjoy: http://www.vertu.com/

Re:I want a DUMB phone

[Anonymous Coward]

These are features I'm looking for:

o) No camera
o) No games
o) No Java
o) No blue-tooth/wi-fi
o) Just a really big phonebook + clock
o) Really, really, small
o) Really, really tough (titanium alloy? liquid metal?)
o) Lots of stand-by time, lots of talk-time
o) Fast (and quiet) power on/off times
o) GSM (my current carrier is T-Mobile)

Except for GSM, try the Motorola Microtac Elite. That was the last phone that Motorola made which still took the standard batteries, which were designed to seperate from the phone instead of breaking it upon impact, that all the Motorola phones accepted. It was also made out of that super-tough plastic they used to make all their phones out of. It was the worlds smallest and lightest phone when it came out. Too bad nobody will give you service for it since it worked way better as a phone than the crap they sell these days.

Re:I want a DUMB phone

[Anonymous Coward]

Try out a SE T290 or similar. Small, good battery, durable as hell, and simple.

Re:I want a DUMB phone

[Anonymous Coward]

Why does this question always come up? All manufacturers have plenty of low-end phones that are cheap, reliable and contains no bells and whistles, just go to http://www.sonyericsson.com/ or http://www.nokia.com/ or whatever your preferred brand is. Just because they don't make headlines on the slashdot front-page doesn't mean they don't exist...

Re:I want a DUMB phone

[Anonymous Coward]

Wait, a really big phonebook and clock? Why would you trade battery life for features you can get elsewhere? I'd rather carry a good watch a good phone and a big phone book than have them all built into one crappy device! You consolidation nuts drive me mad.

Seriously, what is it with the feature allergies people have (just as long as they aren't features that were found in the first phone they ever owned)?

Sure, it looks nice, but...

[Sheetrock]

It's getting harder and harder to justify a cellphone upgrade with every 'iteration' of technology. Indeed, as with other electronics, it's to the point where the only truly practical reason to pick up a new device is because the old device is broken.

With the increasing price of oil, I can't help wondering what the face of computing is going to look like five or ten years down the line. The average computer uses as much as 37 Conestoga wagons worth of coal to run on any given day. Much of this is spent on wasteful peripherals we could do without, such as fancy 3D graphics cards or optical mice, but even more is being spent on processing power well beyond the needs of the average user.

Inefficiencies in microcomponent fabrication mean that a great deal of the electricity that goes into your computer is given off as heat. Techniques such as reversible or quantum computing hold much promise in the future for putting more energy into computation but today it is up to the consumer to safeguard the environment.

In a way, the argument is the same as with vehicles -- most people don't need a SUV or a top-of-the-line system but many choose to get them to compensate for inadequacies or because of marketing -- but with computers at least it is impossible to argue you are "safer" for having a faster system. Indeed, you are more likely to run viruses or worms without realizing it because you don't notice the hit in operating performance. If anything this argument is stronger with a cellphone that can be reprogrammed by malware to call phone numbers that cost you a lot of money or hassle.

I've noticed that I've been holding on to computer equipment longer and longer these days. Oh sure, I have to fix a power supply here and a fan there, but besides slack engineering standards from software companies there is little reason to keep up with the hardware treadmill... and at least one compelling reason not to.

Re:Sure, it looks nice, but...

[giorgiofr]

Pentium Mobile.
AMD Cool'n'quiet technology.
VIA x86 clones.

The fact that YOU don't what's available doesn't mean that such things do not exist.
I have to agree on the "most people don't need so much power" line, though. Thin clients in the enterprise, low-consumption PCs at home are the way to go. (Said by someone with 6 or 7 fans in his case... meh)

Re:Sure, it looks nice, but...

[DarkYoshi]

such as fancy 3D graphics cards or optical mice Ball mice use 100mw. Optical mice use 120mw. CPUs use 20 watts. Why don't we all just use 486s?

Re:Sure, it looks nice, but...

[Roguelazer]

Hmm. I may have to call you out on several elements of that argument. Firstly:

A Conestoga Wagon transported about 8 (short) tons of cargo (according to the wikipedia article). According to howstuffworks.com, coal produces approximately 2,460 kWh/ton. Now, your average computer/monitor combination draws between 150W and 200W, according to some basic research. That could also be written as .2kWh. So in 24 hours, this device draws, um, 4.8 kWh. Considering that a Conestoga Wagon's worth of coal would be about 19,680 kWh of power, I think we can safely assume that a computer uses about 1/12 of a Conestoga Wagon full of coal PER YEAR.

What else? Um. The thought that lots of power is spent on optical mice is kind of funny. I haven't been able to find any concrete information, but since an optical mouse can run solely off the power provided by a PS/2 port, I'm going to assume that there's virtually no power usage involved.

Strangely enough, though, I do agree with you. For basic tasks (word processing, web browsing, etc), I've never seen anybody who needed more than about a 1GHz machine. That's fast enough to handle the flashy graphics and jazz. I've always found it funny to see Intel advertising their latest 3.9GHz dual-core hyper-threading machine as good for web browsing. But, having played Doom 3 and Half-Life 2, I can tell you quite authoritatively that you can never have too much power in your graphics card. ;)

Re:Sure, it looks nice, but...

[AnonymousYellowBelly]

Well, it's not just electronics. If you want to go the 'high efficiency' world route you would have to forgo many things, including reading /.
So, instead of burning all that coal even with a 250MHz Centrino loaded with Knopixx, you could try talking to someone that is, oh gasp!, physically close to you. Maybe have a club of friends that 'car pools' to a bar where each one presents a topic, and all mod each other's comments.

Then we should hunt down trolls, they are just too expensive (energy and time wise) =D

A 'high efficiency' world would be a bitch. I don't think *I* could justify my existence and my work ;-) OTOH, I believe oil is too precious to just burn it with V12 engines.

Re:Sure, it looks nice, but...

[Betcour]

Use a laptop : efficient ones use a *lot* less electricity than a desktop.

Re:Sure, it looks nice, but...

[chris macura]

0) I understand what you meant, but there is a constant amount of energy in the world: we can't produce it or destroy it.

1) The only truly practical reason to upgrade electronics -- ever -- is if the old electronics were broken or incompatible. I have two 6 year old cell-phones: they work, and I don't use them.

2) Oil isn't really getting more expensive, fuel is: we in the U.S. are finally getting prices that are somewhat closer to European, but still considerably cheaper. Your bullshit about coal has been referenced else where, so I'll ignore it.

3) Yeah? You don't like your computer giving off heat? Why don't you cut the heater you have on, and dress up properly? You'll save a shitload more power that way. (and you'll stay awake). While you're at it: try to keep your shit in, it comes out at body temperature and wastes power.

3.5) Throw some words around, "reversible computing", "quantum computing", hell, toss in "nanotech bio-molecular multiphase self-manufacturing processors" just for kicks. We will always need more power: lets figure out how to get more, not how to conserve it; it will be more useful in the long run anyway.

4) I have a bike, so I won't argue this: I'd feel safer if everyone drove around in smart cars. Or better yet: Centaur Concepts.

5) Most people actually need the power: image editting and movie making are becoming popular with cheap, small, good-quality cameras. Games need it too. Hell, Vista will need it. I'm using a 5 year old 1.7ghz P4 running Ubuntu.

Re:Sure, it looks nice, but...

[thrillseeker]

there is a constant amount of energy in the world: we can't produce it or destroy it

Uh oh - when did the sun go out?

Re:Sure, it looks nice, but...

[Dogtanian]

Oh man. Thanks for mentioning the Pentium Mobile. Personally, I'm seriously considering basing my next PC on one; low-power, no fan noise, pretty good performance.

I've been hearing more and more about the Pentium Mobile vs. the Pentium 4 in the past few months; lots of people were saying that the Pentium Mobile was a good choice for a desktop machine, that the design (ironically based on the Pentium III) was the way forward rather than the dead-end (following the 'Prescott' iteration) that the Pentium 4 is currently stuck in.

In fact, there's a rumour that the Pentium Mobile, not the Pentium 4/Prescott is now Intel's "reference" design; which wouldn't be surprising, since everyone else has been saying they should do that for months now.

Anyhow, back to the fans. I'm one of those people who'll sacrifice a small amount of cutting-edge performance and pay a bit more to get a relatively silent machine; the fact I'm happily using my 3-year old 1.8 P4 suggests I'm not really pushing it anyway- and I'll bet in the general public there are a *far* higher proportion of people like me than there are in the Slashdot crowd.

Re:Sure, it looks nice, but...

[Dr. Sp0ng]

I understand what you meant, but there is a constant amount of energy in the world: we can't produce it or destroy it.

Erm, no. There's a constant amount of energy in the universe. Energy is constantly entering and leaving this planet via sunlight, radiated heat, and so on.

Re:Sure, it looks nice, but...

[Mark Hood]

Uh oh - when did the sun go out?

Well, technically he said 'in' the world, so as long as the sun was up when he wrote it, he's right.

After all, we all know the sun burrows through the earth at night, right? Lands somewhere in Arizona, that's why the rocks there are so red...

Mark

PS Thanks to Bill Watterson for the Arizona information - everything I need to know about science I learnt from "Calvin & Hobbes".

Slashvertising?

[hvatum]

Is it just me or are a number of "stories" on Slashdot nothing more than glorified advertisements? Phones with mult-megaplixel cameras and built-in Wifi are nothing new.

Re:Slashvertising?

[Achromatic1978]

Totally. "Oooh, Sony, new phone out next year, will give Symbian a kick in the pants with stuff like WiFi, making it one of only a few phones to have it!".

Like, say, the Nokia 9500, which is a Symbian phone with WiFi. And will have been out FOR A YEAR when this thing hits market.

Mistake

[Anonymous Coward]

As a user of phones for email, I can tell you they made a mistake not having a minimum of 640 pixels horizontally. If the phone is priced over $150, this is an essential feature. This is the minimum for comfortable email reading and sending. For web browsing it's 800 or even 1024 for many websites. I dont know why they even bother marketing such phones as having web browsing capability given the inconvenience.

Re:FIRST HORSE!

[Anonymous Coward]

You are an ass to say that.

Thats what i get for not reading carefully.

[Anonymous Coward]

Jeez, for a second I thought that the headline read SYBIAN smartphone, and that threw me off. Made me gaze in awe at how far technology has cum.

Re:Thats what i get for not reading carefully.

[Anonymous Coward]

You hold it between your legs and wait for someone to call, set volume for vibrate...

Re:Thats what i get for not reading carefully.

[Anonymous Coward]

Get two of them and call yourself! Or give one of them to your ladyfriend.

American 3G

[Anonymous Coward]

Do the americans have any 3G network yet? In case, which technology does it use? It's not umts, right?

Re:American 3G

[Wesley Felter]

This phone is not really aimed at the American market. (AFAIK no US carriers sold the P800, P900, or P910, so why should they change now?)

UMTS is coming to the US eventually, but it's not here yet. Today all we have is EV-DO.

Re:American 3G

[Anonymous Coward]

Verizon, for one, runs a CDMA2000 network.

Re:American 3G

[outZider]

AT&T had limited availability UMTS, I'm assuming Cingular is also offering in the same zones.

Re:American 3G

[Anonymous Coward]

... or iDen

I never have a problem

[grahamsz]

I send and receive email on my Nokia 6600 Smartphone and it's not too bad with the 240x320 display. Even web surfing is tolerable.

Re:I never have a problem

[Anonymous Coward]

The 6600 doesn't have a QVGA screen.

There are some

[elfguygmail.com]

Check the high end nokia devices, like the N90/N91 communicator, they have no camera.

Re:There are some

[otherniceman]

N90: 2 MP, 1600x1200 pixels, Carl Zeiss optics, autofocus, video, flash
N91: 2 MP, 1600x1200 pixels, video

Nokia 9300 does have a camera. I am in the same boat at the moment. I have to downgrade from P910i to Nokia 6021.

If you want to search for phones with specific features GSM Arena they have a good search facility http://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3.

Re:There are some

[Achromatic1978]

Much as I /love/ my Nokia 9300 - though I wish I'd checked the release date of the 9500 - I can assure you, if it has a camera, it is EXTREMELY well hidden. As in, it doesn't.

Re:There are some

[otherniceman]

oops, misprunt, 9300 does not have a camera, the 9500 does.

Lol, shot in the arm

[jayhawk88]

...the P990 looks like it will be a shot in the arm for the Symbian camp.

Unless they're shooting that thing out of a 50 calibur, I'm not exactly holding my breath for the triumphant Symbian comeback.

Re:Lol, shot in the arm

[ickleberry]

The P990 runs a variant of symbian. so whats that all about?

Re:Lol, shot in the arm

[the_true_cirrus]

I'm not exactly holding my breath for the triumphant Symbian comeback

What do you mean comeback? Last I heard, Symbian was by far the most successful smartphone OS so far (in terms of market share).

Re:Lol, shot in the arm

[rising_hope]

As the owner of a SymbianOS Nokia 6620, who strongly considered the Ericsson P910a, and whom owned Windows Mobile PDA phones, as well as Palm OS phones, I can tell you it's the only one of the three that's actually usable. Windows has a better interface, with some quirks. It's by far the most capable, if you use only Microsoft products. But, if you're a Linux user, or use other enterprise software, you'll have to try every third party software from IntelliSync's crappy bugginess to the KitchenSync. And even then, you're prone to periodic lockups, mysterious mishaps, and strange buginess that just shouldn't happen. The Palm Phones hardly fair better, and the Treo 650 is so flimsy you can sneeze at it and it breaks. To make matters worse, they use a slick plastic coating that looks cool, but makes the device so slipery, many users report the device being easy to drop. (Check phonescoop.com or howardforums for details.) Then, there's my 6620. Sure, it's not quite as capable, but what it does, it does flawlessly. Bluetooth is easier to configure than Windows. I have Opera 8 for web browsing, which does about as well (or poory, depending on how you look at it) as IE for Windows Mobile. I have included apps that provide as much office functionality as palm, and even use native formats, as opposed to having to convert them, ala Windows Mobile. I can sync with Lotus Notes easily, out of the box. Exchange, no sweat. Linux? No problem. OS X, why not!? When interacting with Windows or Palm PDAs, I can exchange files via bluetooth or built in infrared. I can tether my cell phone and use it as a modem over USB or bluetooth within mere minutes of configuration. I can install hundreds of available apps from Handango. There's all kinds of free Java games out there. I always avoided Symbian, cause I figured it just didn't have all the capability I wanted. Then, after getting so frustrated with the competition, I figured I'd "downgrade." Well, 90% of what I wanted was matched by my significantly smaller 6620. And, THANK GOD - no random lockups. Before you knock Symbian OS, try using the competition first. Then get frustrated. Then swear off PDA/Smartphones forever. Then, try Symbian and be pleasantly surprised. Really - you'll praise that Symbian OS exists.

For the record - Symbian appears to have one competent competitor I haven't used - Blackberry. Unfortunately, RIM's recent legal troubles have eliminated them from the market, at least for the time being. With Palm using Windows Mobile on it's upcoming Treo, it could spell the end of Palm OS as we know it. Market share has been slipping for a while - a real shame, since it, in some ways, is superior to Windows Mobile. In the end, it doesn't leave too many options, but near as I can tell, Symbian is the only viable and USABLE option.

Re:Lol, shot in the arm

[Anonymous Coward]

I used to own a Nokia Communicator Brick, after I sold that my cel phones have been the P800, P900 and now the P910.

Ive done plenty of research on smartphones and my best friend uses a treo and we compare and brag about how much better our phone is, each with valid opinions.

In my opinion, the P910 is the best phone EVER, simple as that, because it is a cool phone first, PDA second, which is what most people get wrong in the smartphone world.

I'll give you an example, most of today's smartphones dont even have a telephone keypad, they use the pda screen with a virtual keypad. This sounds all good and cool except for one small thing. You cannot dial or send SMS messages without looking at the damn thing, I am very used to sending messages without looking at the phone because as every phone EVER the number 5 on the phone has a little bump (this is true to household phones as well) thanks to that bump your thumb can recognize where it is and you can guide yourself thru the keypad easily without having to look, perfect when driving and it just makes the whole ordeal faster.

When I had the p800 I accidentaly broke a small fragment of the flip and because the P800, as great as it was, was a cheap peace of plastic (it didnt have a hardware flip/keypad, all the keypad did was press on the touchscreen on to the virtual keypad, this was cheating!!) the phone stoped working because it was uneven with the virtual keypad so whenever i typed 5, the phone input a 4, whenever I typed 3, the phone input another character, this pissed me off so I took the flip off altogether and started using the virtual keyboard... this made my life HELL as I had to look where to press the numbers each time and make sure my thumb was in the right place so that i didnt dial another number by mistake.

Thankfully this was around the time the P900 was coming out so I sold that great but cheap p800 and absolutely LOVED my p900, the one good thing this phone was missing was a keyboard and the p910 gave me that.

Now I produly own the best smartphone in the market, I can do anything anybody with a pda, phone or ipod can do, I use it to call people, be on msn messenger, send/recieve emails, surf the web thru opera, check my movie listings, send MMS msgs, SMS msgs, hook up to my pc via bluetooth and share the gprs connection, listen to mp3's on the gym etc... No to mention ripping dvd movies and storing them on the memory stick duo and watching them sideways (widescreen mode) on the phone.

Now being honest, there are 4 real things the p910 phone is missing for it to become the grates achievement in mobile phone history (yes I am biased as shit, so what)

1. Better cammera
2. WIFI
3. A keyboard that lets you type in the dark
4. FM tuner

And as I can see on the new anouncement from ericsson, the P990 will have a better cammera, WIFI and a backlit keyboard, the only thing missing is the FM tunner which is the least important of the lot PLUS I already have the sony ericsson Radio for sony ericsson phones and I have to say its pretty cool, of course the best thing would be for the phone to have a fm tunner but it is already too much to ask.

Oh, also the new design looks completly badas specialy from the back.

All in all, the P990 seems like it will be the greatest moment since the big bang.

yea fuck you all

BAH

Re:Lol, shot in the arm

[Anonymous Coward]

OMFGShwsfhyasf this DOES HAVE fm radio

im cuming all over the place'lfjkqeg

Whah, whah

[Anonymous Coward]

Why is the memory stick significantly more than the other two?

... whah, whah

I have to pay $12 extra for a memory stick for my $800 phone. Is there no justice in the world.

No

[temojen]

It's all in the relationship between lens quality & sensor size. A lens small enough to fit in a cell phone is going to be pretty crappy, and a sensor small enough to fit in a cell phone is going to be small enough that chromatic aberation will be a concern. Upping the resolution will make the chromatic aberation even easier to notice. If you want a camera, buy a camera, not a cell phone.

There are lots of things that could be merged with a cell phone (mp3 player, voice recorder/dictaphone, PDA, thumb drive, etc). A camera is one thing that should not.

Re:No

[jrumney]

There are lots of things that could be merged with a cell phone (mp3 player, voice recorder/dictaphone, PDA, thumb drive, etc). A camera is one thing that should not.

The 1.3Mpx camera in my phone gives about the same quality as a throwaway camera. With an auto-focus lens and 2 Mpx, you are probably getting close to the quality of compact film cameras that most of the population are happy with as their main camera. Still nowhere near a good digital compact or an SLR, but good enough for casual snapshots.

Looks Like

[Nom du Keyboard]

Packing both UMTS (3G) and WiFi in addition to a 2 megapixel digital camera and a host of other goodies, the P990 looks like it will be a shot in the arm for the Symbian camp.

Looks like:

1: New avenues to hack into my phone.
2: More software that probably hasn't been adequately tested in the competative enviroment before release.

Finally a lit keyboard

[zeth]

Nice to see that they finally have a backlit qwerty keyboard!

I have a P910i and it's almost impossible to write using the keyboard when it's dark. I just wonder what Sony-Ericsson thought of when they released the P910 without some kind of light for the keyboard.

Nice to see that it has integrated wlan too! That has been the biggest thing that I miss from the P910.

Re:Finally a lit keyboard

[Library Spoff]

My last phone was a SE Z600, my current phone is a SE K750i.
Both phones crash if you try to navigate thru the GUI too quickly.

Does this happen on their symbian phones?
I like the phones and the specs, The phone hanging is annoying tho.

Re:Finally a lit keyboard

[zeth]

Have you tried updating your phone through their website (if you have a DSS-25 sync station) or letting your store do that for you? Although I have not used the k750 much, I have abused the GUI to a large degree, and I have never experienced a crash.

I have a P910i Symbian phone, and it has never crashed due to GUI navigation. Actually, I have had it about a year now and it has rarely crashed at all. Maybe about two or three times at the most. Even though some applications have crashed, the OS has still continued working.

It's ugly, Jim!

[noewun]

Yikes.

Re:Sure, it looks nice, but...SIG Feedback

[Nom du Keyboard]

We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.

Considering how neither of my kids (boys in their 20's) feel no compunction at all about paying back any of their debts no matter how extravagant their promises at the time of borrowing, I worry less about this debt every day.

Skype?

[FuryG3]

The real question is, can you run skype or other VOIP clients on it? Using VOIP when within range of a 802.11 network could save you a lot of minutes.

Not to mention making long distance calls via 3G internet access. You're still using your minutes, but now you can call anywhere in the world without having to get a second mortgage on your house.

Re:Skype?

[Alias777]

The real question is, can you put veiled advertisements for Skype and such on Slashdot?

um... er...

[Sebastopol]

I sure hope it doesn't operate like any of the "Symbians" I've seen on usenet...

Ring Ring

Yeeeeouch!

Ring Ring

Yeeeeouch!

Re:um... er...

[Anonymous Coward]

AHhaha I specifically went through to see if anyone else thought of "symbians" like I did.. :)

Horrible keyboard design

[vrv1]

I have a p910a (and had a p800 before that) and one of the things that really stand out is the keyboard on the back of the keyflip. The keyflip can increase the size of the screen and become a PDA or when not used can become a cell phone (which is the most important use of the device). By doing away with that, there really is no reason to buy the p990 instead of the Palm 700 (other than that you are a rabid anti-u$ fanatic). You can argue that the P910a's design might result in higher strain on the hinges. But I found the hinges to be pretty sturdy and I always use my index fingers to support the body of the phone while I use the thumb to do the typing.

This is a step back for the P series and i hope SonyEricsson will change it.

Re:Horrible keyboard design

[cybpunks3]

But this is using a higher densite LCD by the looks of it. The old one was 320x200 and this new one is 320x240.

The problem is

[Anonymous Coward]

They exist. They just dont get advertised on sashdot. Visit your cell phone dealer and inquire. A lot of times ou can get fones "free" for signing up. Be warned though, dont expect to gain much in talk time or ruggedness.

Motorola is coming out with a $30 phone that is ruggedized although they intend to market to the developing world only (since the profit margin is so low, they dont want it eating their profits here .. if they can sell one camera phone for $100 and make $10, they rather do that than sell eight $30 phones for a $1 profit margin each).

Also, the problem is that none of the features you don't want actually cost them any money to include.

I found out that it literally costs under $3 for the camera (sorry no reference, google. or take with grain of salt). Having a camera, bluetooth, and wifi dont consume extra power. Most of the power is spent driving the display and transmitting the phone call. So if you choose the option of reducing your cellphone brightness and not play any games ..it's basically the same as having a phone without the gaming/java features. Presumably having a barebones LCD display will give you five extra talk time minutes. The phone cannot be made super tiny because it gets un ergonomic .. hard to fit convenient to press buttons on a tiny form factor.

And then, the problem is also the lack of demand for such phones given that any phones are bundled "free". So then u may end paying more for less, ironically enough.

Re:The problem is

[Achromatic1978]

Having a camera, bluetooth, and wifi dont consume extra power.

I call bullshit. Having WiFi on, say, a Nokia 9500 - or any device, even my laptop - is a surefire way to chew through battery power.

Too true

[Sanity]

I have a P910, I upgraded from a P900 - largely due to not having any better options - and I regret it. The software crashes, performing basic phone tasks takes longer than with simpler phones, its just over-complicated.

My next phone will have the simplest UI I can find unless they have made significant advances in the usability of the P9XX series.

Re:Too true

[hattig]

I have a Motorola A1000 - a UIQ v2 based phone.

Fucking useless OS isn't it? Quite sad considering I know a couple of people that work at Symbian, but I think the fault is with UIQ.

If it didn't crash it'd be okay. But it does crash. I tried to make a phone call today, wondered why I wasn't getting a ring, looked at the screen to see the "Motorola 3G" logo pop up as it rebooted. Just for making a phone call!

Windows Mobile (which I've also used) is around 3 years ahead of the Symbian + UIQ combination. At least the handwriting recognition works, and isn't per-letter based. Maybe UIQ3 has sorted this out. I WANT TO WRITE ON THE SCREEN NATURALLY, NOT IN A FUCKING POXY SQUARE.

Re:Too true

[Kent Recal]

Fully agreed. This, by the way, also applies to the "consumer" sony ericcsson phones.
I have the k700i and it's easily the worst cellphone I have ever owned.

Just a few of the annoyances:

- The SMS tone can not be changed (and is hardly bearable...)
- Their "innovative" plug for the charger cable becomes very unreliable very quickly.
    I regularly curse in the morning because the cable became lose overnight and the phone didn't charge.
- With normal (default) font size the last few digits of the numbers are cut off in all listings (e.g. "missed calls").
    Displaying the whole number takes two clicks.
- The light can only be toggled in camera mode. Switching to camera mode takes 2-5 seconds.
- The camera lens collects dirt. I have no idea why they added a plastic cap for the charger-plug but not
    for the lens.
- It crashes and (worse) freezes occassionally. I usually don't notice a freeze until I realize it doesn't react
    to button presses anymore. Needless to say it doesn't ring when frozen...
- The "online"-button is rip-off by design. Push it by accident and well, you're online (which tends to cost money)
- Sending photos via MMS or E-Mail hardly ever works. Sometimes it gets through after a few attempts, sometimes it doesn't.
- The E-Mail functionality is a joke of it's own ('nuff said!).
- The whole UI is sluggish. There's a noticable lag between any keystrokes and the phone reacting.

I could go on and on. Needless to say my next phone will not be a sony-e and I'll spend much more time on
evaluating my choices...

better late

[Anonymous Coward]

How many years late is 3G in Europe now? Now if someone can just put up a UMTS nework!

If it's at all like my P910a...

[snowballs]

* The screen is so big, that if you don't use Bluetooth or hands free, then the screen gets nasty pretty fast. It's a bitch to clean too.

* Battery life is acceptable if you don't use push services

* It's gotta be tough - the very first day I had my P910i, I dropped it from about 4ft. right onto the concrete and cringed knowing that I was about to be so very fired. I picked it up and the plastic on the side where the photo button had popped loose, but that's it. I used the stylus to pry it back in, and no problem except a bit of cosmetic damage. By and large, most of my Sony/Ericsson phones have been pretty tough. It's ironic that when Ericsson's phones stopped looking like little Volvos did they become less breakable for a klutz like myself.

* the browser hangs sometimes, giving the white screen of no return. Battery removed, power back on and viola.

* it's size is a bit clunky, but one option is to remove the flip entirely and TFM for this comes in the box. Even then, you almost have to use the holster that comes with it - it's just too damn big to put into your pocket.

Vertical Market Phones Often Have No Camera

[Tetravus]

Many manufacturers produce two versions of their phones. Those intended for home users, that come with cameras and those for the vertical markets/Saudi Arabia that may have some features removed (cameras) or disabled (wireless connectivity that may compromise security). Or so I've heard.

If anyone could confirm this story with actual product numbers I'd appreciate it.

Re:Vertical Market Phones Often Have No Camera

[jrumney]

Mobile phones with wireless connectivity removed? Do they come in fashion colors to match my new clothes made from a special fabric that the unworthy cannot see?

Easy solution

[Sanity]

This poses a problem for me, because I'm unable to bring anything into my place of employment that has a camera on it.

Find an employer that trusts you.

Seriously, if an employee is determined to compromise the security of their employer, they will do it, with or without a camera phone.

Re:Easy solution

[romeo_in_blk_jeans]

"Find an employer that trusts you. Seriously, if an employee is determined to compromise the security of their employer, they will do it, with or without a camera phone."

Right, kind of. Sort of. If you ban camera phones, you've banned a device that can take decent resolution images and transmit them wirelessly and immediately. That measure makes it harder to "compromise security" with ease. The whole point of security is to make it not easy to get the goods.

Re:Easy solution

[Anonymous Coward]

You're an asshat.

"Sure, I'll give up my top-secret clearance government/well paying private sector R&D job just cause I can't have my sweet cameraphone!"

Some employers *require* more stringent security than verbal trust. Your buddy Rico's IT firm ain't that place. Real jobs where people do real work - yeah, those places that *make* the cool shit you buy?

Re:Easy solution

[Anonymous Coward]

What the parent post fails to point out is that the no-cameras prohibitions that such employers provide are an indication that they do not trust their employeees.

So, what the grandparent poster said, find an employer who trusts you. Not so you can use your cameraphone, but because life is too short, and you're too skilled, to work for an employer who assumes you'll do bad things with a cell phone.

Re:Sure, it looks nice, but...SIG Feedback

[Dogers]

Don't know who modded you funny.. It's a genuinely serious problem! :(

There was a campaign to get loan ads off of kids tv at http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/

Charging issues?

[topical_surfactant]

I had an Ericsson T-somethingorother for about a year which I purchased because of its small size. The thing charged using these two flat copper strips exposed on the bottom. In fact, all electrical contacts were made using these exposed strips.

The damn metal corroded, and it became impossible to consistently charge it for any length of time, and the headset became useless for the same reason. I junked it. Now I have a phone with a male charging plug, so hopefully the unexposed contacts won't wear out as fast. I want to thrash whatever engineer thought those charging plugs were a good idea.

Re:Charging issues?

[LWATCDR]

"The damn metal corroded, and it became impossible to consistently charge it for any length of time, and the headset became useless for the same reason. I junked it. Now I have a phone with a male charging plug, so hopefully the unexposed contacts won't wear out as fast."

You do know that those contacts are still exposed. Air is + moisture causes most corrosion. The real solution is to use gold plated contacts.
The quality of the metal means a lot more than if it is a female jack or exposed contacts. Unless you touched the contacts a lot then the oil and salt from your skin could be part of the problem again gold plating them would have prevented it and might have cost five cents.

Re:Charging issues?

[topical_surfactant]

You're right. Maybe with the male charging plug, the contacts are wedged together, and the act of plugging it in scrapes off corroded material more readily? Eh, all I know is the plugs don't last as long in that configuration.

Re:Charging issues?

[baka_vic]

I think a male charging plug has a greater surface contact with the female end, as compared the Sony Ericsson's charging adaptor. So I think that's why it's less subseptible to contact problems.

I've got a K508i, and the charging plug uses these tinny, almost pinhead-like contact pins. If I don't position the phone properly while charging, the contacts might not touch, and I'll have a dead battery the next morning.

This idea of using these sort of contacts goes back a long way in Ericsson's history. Back in '95 or so, my father had an Ericsson phone, whose handsfree set - you guessed it - uses this stupid pin contact method. He also experienced the same problems you had with your handfree set.

Nokia 1221 from tracfone

[chocolatetrumpet]

Check out the Nokia 1221 from tracfone (site generally only loads well in ie, imho - don't let your pride get in the way of cheap cellular telephone service)

Combine an old school phone that does ONLY phone stuff (I suppose it techincally has games - I've never played them. the interface is clean and phone centric) with modern batteries and you have one very useful piece of tech.

The display is nice easy to read text.

It's great! Tracfone uses the cingular network so you should have good coverage.

This costs me far less than any other cell phone "plan."

--Just a User - I am not reembursed for this blatant promo - just trying to help out a /. poster

Released?

[eqkivaro]

Sony Ericsson's P990 Smartphone Released

The phone wasn't released. It was announced.

Re:Released?

[youngerpants]

No, it was released, back into the wild where it could roam the serengeti, grazing on memory sticks and breed with other smartphones. However, 3 weeks into its new found freedom, it was eaten by an HTC XDAII who regurgitated its circutry to feed its offspring.

OK, enough National Geographic...

Title misleading

[hkb]

Uhm, it's been announced, not released. Do the editors even read the stories they're posting anymore, or is it just a copy-paste-submit job?

Re:Title misleading

[recursiv]

Hilarious. The first line of the article is

Expected Q1 2006

Good ol' Slashdot.

Shot in the head

[psavo]

the P990 looks like it will be a shot in the arm for the Symbian camp

I do hope they've come up with programming API to it that doesn't suck compiler designer's hairy balls. I had a course on mobile programming last spring and boy did symbian suck (even compared to mobile java).

I'm still of the optinion that whoever designed programming interface with 16 or more character string types was out of their mind and should be shot, multiple times.

Re:Shot in the head

[cakesy]

Symbian does offer a lot more control than using J2ME tho... so i like it better.

how about Lesbian smartphones?

[GodGell]

would be an interesting feature with Bluetooth...

Nice platform

[wertarbyte]

This could be a nice platform to experiment with, considering the many ways to get connectivity. I got myself a K750i a few weeks ago, and I was quite impressed by the grade of documentation SE offers; They also seem to like open data formats, since both the theme files as well as remote control definitions (you can use the phone as a bluetooth HID, very handy with media player software) use tar archives with packaged PNG/JPG/GIF and XML files, which is a very nice aspect if you use linux and can't use the windows software. You can also do some nifty stuff with the serial AT command interface, which seems to be designed for extension hardware - I'd like to try some things with a microcontroller if I find the time for it. I documented some aspects here.

Wi-Fi

[MacGod]

The article says that this phone features Wi-Fi connectivity. Does that mean it is (or might soon be) possible to connect via something like Skype and make free calls to other Skype users (or cheap calls to actual phones) without consuming airtime? Because that would indeed be an extremely cool feature.

Re:Wi-Fi

[Dr. Sp0ng]

The article says that this phone features Wi-Fi connectivity. Does that mean it is (or might soon be) possible to connect via something like Skype and make free calls to other Skype users (or cheap calls to actual phones) without consuming airtime?

That's the idea. That's also why the wireless carriers have been dragging their feet on supporting phones with built-in WiFi.

No problem at all!

[fireboy1919]

Removing external features is easy! Here's a simple, two step guide to removing camera functionality from your PDA:

1) Get a ball point pen.
2) Shove the pen deep into the CCD - cracking it so that it can no longer hold a charge.

VOILA! Camera-free PDA! This same "break the main part" technique can be used on a remarkably large range of electronic functions, including:
-Speakers
-Microphone
-LCD
-Phone (more complicated - you have to remove the antenna)

Virtually any external feature you don't like can be removed. On the other hand, it is quite difficult to add these features back.

Enjoy breaking stuff!

Great Reception

[Macrat]

Keep in mind that the P800, P900 & P910 phones get GREAT reception. I usually get 3 bars in areas where people using the "free" phones get no signal at all.

Quality?

[Ranger]

Has the quality of Ericsson phones improved? Last I checked they were a piece of crap (2003). Sometimes phones get better like Nokia and sometimes they get worse like Motorola. I just looked at the pics the P990 is just as ugly as their other phones. I might consider it if it's better than the Treo, but then again it doesn't take a whole lot to be better than a Treo phone. I don't think any smartphone is ready for primetime. It'll be a few more years before a practical PDA/multimedia/phone is worth buying in the US. But this is from one technician's perspective. I've worked as a celllular and two way radio technician in the early 90's and as a data phone tech for a cellular carrier a year and a half ago.

Re:Quality?

[Cederic]

While I don't have a SonyEricsson myself (I'm using a Treo at the moment) I know a few people who do have the earlier versions of this phone.

They love it. It's great. It does what it's meant to do, looks just fine, doesn't go wrong, doesn't break.

I'm going to look seriously at this thing, because although the Treo is great as a PDA, it's somewhat lacking as a phone, and this meets my key criteria of phone/pda/wifi/qwerty keyboard all on one device. I have limited pocket space, and this meets the need.

Cameraphones : useful for their intended purpose

[Anonymous Coward]

"There are lots of things that could be merged with a cell phone (mp3 player, voice recorder/dictaphone, PDA, thumb drive, etc). A camera is one thing that should not."

Why not? as a mobile _communications device_ I find the addition of a camera far more useful than mp3 playback. Sometimes moments can only be properly recorded, and shared, with images and I don't carry a digicam around with me all the time unlike a pocket-sized phone.

Also, the K750 / D750 / W800 phones produce average-to-good 6x4" prints in outdoor light or with the external flash addon (around USD 20$) and they use CMOS sensors with plastic autofocusing lenses!

Not if you don't use it!

[Anonymous Coward]

If you don't use it. How can the power be consumed? Can't you just turn the wifi off, read the manual instead of being a wifi station 24/7?

Re:Not if you don't use it!

[Achromatic1978]

Well, of course you can, and do. Just as my Nokia has 'flight/offline mode', where the phone component isn't active.

But the impression you get from what the GP wrote was that the power consumption was non-existant above and beyond the normal use of the phone. Especially when he's comparing it to the display consumption, otherwise, what's he saying? "The display when on uses more power than the features which are turned off!" No! Really?

p900's

[Anonymous Coward]

I got the P900. Why? it's basicly a PDA that acts as a phone. I do agree about one thing though that I wish they (cell phones) were much much much much more focussed on the phone. The last nokia "smart" phone I had was a POS. The UI for the buttons sucked. The whole schebang was a joke. The last treo I had I had to get a ton of apps (none of them 'free') to do anything worth a sh***. Will someone out their please esplain to me: I sick of cell phones not competing on service. I want a Java phone that is rock solid, signal is good. and fairly small. I also want it to connect to any OS without some horse shit about this specialised app or that specialised app. Puh lease! Just a fucking cable, or real bluetooth let me backup stored phone numbers, and then lets roll.

Step forward

[Durzel]

Relocating the keypad to the main body of the phone is "a good thing" in my opinion. As it is anyway the sheer size of the screen sucks the life out of the battery pretty sharpish if you start doing intensive things (watching videos, using Opera, etc). Also, it is already a decent aspect ratio - you wouldn't want the screen taking up the space the QWERTY keyboard occupies because it would look completely out of proportion.

Anyone who has used a P900 (ok, most people) will know that typing with the onscreen keyboard is significantly faster than the handwriting intepreter. Having the keyboard on the frame body itself means you can now use it completely one-handed.

I for one am definitely looking forward to this phone, and will upgrade my current P900 as soon as the opportunity presents itself.

Step away from that VoIP, sir.

[beeblebrox]

Putting (leaving?) my cynical hat on, it seems that Symbian was forced by the economics of the mobile phone business to screw the handset owners in order to keep the network operators happy:

Platform security is extended in Symbian OS v9, providing control over the capabilities of applications installed on the devices. This is done to ensure the integrity of the phones and the network, while still enabling an open environment for third party applications.

and:

installation of C++ executables, including authentication of software components using digital signatures to provide a measure of confidence that applications being installed onto a Symbian OS phone are from a known reputable vendor

Their spin seems to be that if these controls are not put into place, the sky will fall on the smartphone world as angry users who installed crapware/malware on their phones will annoy the crap out of the network operators' support lines, and other assorted Bad Things will happen. You know, like it happened with PCs.

Me, I just follow the money and I know what to expect: You wanna play? You pays your dues to enter Mr Telco's walled garden.

If you're a P990 (or other Symbian 9 device) owner, you don't get to decide what to install/run. Mr Telco does. For Your Own Good, of course.

Anyone want to take a bet which way it'll go?

I HAVE THE PERFECT PHONE FOR YOU

[TheLittleJetson]

LG 4010 -- it's about 2cm thick when closed, flip-phone, black and white display. Not a lot of expandability, but you can get one unlocked on eBay for about $30.

I used this phone because I wanted a small/thin flip phone. Last week I upgraded to the Panasonic X800

VOIP

[Trejkaz]

Since this thing has 802.11b, do you think we can have a VOIP client on it? I'm sick of paying mobile phone rates when I work within range of at least two free hotspots.

Re:American 3G- "All we have is EVDO"...

[Anonymous Coward]

Pffft! EVDO is way faster than UMTS!

Where do these mysterious stories come from?

[hkmwbz]

"Is it just me or are a number of "stories" on Slashdot nothing more than glorified advertisements?"

Have you read any other tech publications lately? Have you noticed that they publish news about new products all the time? You know where these stories come from?

From the companies selling those products.

A company with a product to sell wants people to hear about it, and lots of us read tech publications. The funny thing is, lots of people find these stories to be interesting because they want the latest news on these things.

So companies issue press releases that are basically a page of product bragging, and the press re-publishes it all over the place. Make no mistake about it - it is pure advertising.

"Phones with mult-megaplixel cameras and built-in Wifi are nothing new."

I fail to see your point. Because mobile phones have existed in the past, it is wrong to report on new mobile phones being released to the market?

Obviously Slashdot doesn't report on every single phone out there, but they chose to include the P990. And you can complain that it's just an ad, and you would be right.

But then you would have to stop reading the news all together, because guess what... All those product "news" in other publications are ads too!

What's funny is that you were obviously trying to be cynical and "expose" the Slashertisement, but in my opinion you actually ended up looking rather naive, seeing as you sounded like you didn't understand the purpose of product launches and press releases and their relation to the media in the first place ;)

Panasonic EB-A100

[3.5 stripes]

It's tiny, and GSM..

http://www.panasonic.it/Products_Info.asp?M=2529|7 38|737|736|4|1

Sorry the page is in italian, and those fuckers at panasonic don't seem to like firefox either.

Firmware

[gilesjuk]

Trouble with most Smartphones is you can't upgrade the firmware yourself. This is the one area where Windows Mobile devices shine, user upgradability. Sony Ericsson devices had a problem with large text messages (SMS), fixing it requires sending your phone back to a service centre? which means finding another phone to use in the mean time.

this actually happens

[RMH101]

we're a large company, and some of what we do is sensitive: so we don't allow cameras on some sites. however, we have a global deal with vodafone, and a lot of their phones come with cameras.
there was a period when virtually all of their business class phones came with cameras, and it was actually more expensive to buy large quantities of camera-less ones - so some creative thinking was required. the lenses were coated with a nigh-on impossible to remove paint that bonded with the plastic - doesn't hit the warranty as we've not drilled a hole or anything, and we save money. plus, some users can have cameras if there's a need.

MPixels != Quality

[threeturn]

Megapixels are not a measure of quality, they are a measure of resolution. This is the photographic equivalent of the "MHz Myth". Though resolution is a partial attribute of quality it is only part of the whole story.

2M Pixel photos will print fine on 6x4, but if the lens and the sensor are crap they will still look crap.

It's grim

[threeturn]

I assume you posted this to show how bad the images from camera phones are.

• Terrible noise
• Terrible "jaggies" on the diagonal lines
• Poor focus
• Terrible dynamic range

Though the conditions you used are quite difficult even the cheapest proper 2MPixel camera will produce much much better results.

Camera phones are fine for the odd fun snapshot, but don't try and use them for photography!

Big screen on small phone...

[KlausBreuer]

...is pretty useless to me.
If I call somebody, I press the phone to my ear. And you get a big smeary blob on the screen, which needs to be wiped off. Which irritates me, quite apart from the uncomfortable shape.

(Very funny. No, it's perfectly normal stuff from your skin, and not mud, blood, or whatever ;)

So, guess what: I have a PDA with everything on it. And a simple phone. To call people with, nothing else.

Not really

[hummassa]

If I'm adamant in my intent of copying/smuggling out some information from the place I live, I will put a Nokia 7280 up my ass (less than 3cm wide), take the photos/send them out, put it back there and voila. Ban or no ban. Trusting and treating your employees well works better.

Re:Not really

[romeo_in_blk_jeans]

"If I'm adamant in my intent of copying/smuggling out some information from the place I live, I will put a Nokia 7280 up my ass (less than 3cm wide), take the photos/send them out, put it back there and voila."

Thank you for proving my point. If I ban cell phones in your workplace, I have now eliminated from the number of potential security risks the people who aren't willing to smuggle phones in to work in their colons. It eliminates casual espionage thus security is tightened. Remember, like I said before, the goal of security is to make it as hard as realistically possible to "get the goods".

"Trusting and treating your employees well works better."

I agree that mistreatment of employees can lead to increased desire to screw over your employer. However, let's say that your employer is the DOD and your workplace is a plutonium refinery. Do you really want cameras floating around that place? All I'm saying is that sometimes security measures, like banning camera phones, are necessary. I'm sure you can find instances where the ban is a result of oppressive management. I'm not arguing that point. My entire point is that camera phone bans aren't always the result of PHB's. That's all I'm trying to get you to acknowledge. No more, no less.

ACK

[hummassa]

But I still disagree on the (probability of the) existence of the "Accidental/Incidental Spy"... and that was my point.

Re:ACK

[romeo_in_blk_jeans]

Accidental/Incidental Spying?

I must apologize as I seem unable to locate any refrence to that in this thread. In such a state, I cannot address, agree, or disagree with your point.

Perhaps you could restate it?

Your words

[hummassa]

Thank you for proving my point. If I ban cell phones in your workplace, I have now eliminated from the number of potential security risks the people who aren't willing to smuggle phones in to work in their colonsAny person who wants to get information out of your company normally IMHO will be willing to put the phone in their rectum. Any person who takes information out otherwise is doing so accidentally of incidentally (Hey, how about we take this photo of the crew in front of the plutonium purifier?)
My point, again, is that you are not making it difficult for those who want to smuggle info, you are making it difficult to those who don't want to smuggle info, but would do it nevertheless.
Got it?

Your words 2.0 (fscking non-working preview)

[hummassa]

Thank you for proving my point. If I ban cell phones in your workplace, I have now eliminated from the number of potential security risks the people who aren't willing to smuggle phones in to work in their colons

Any person who wants to get information out of your company normally IMHO will be willing to put the phone in their rectum. Any person who takes information out otherwise is doing so accidentally OR incidentally ("Hey, how about we take this photo of the crew in front of the plutonium purifier?")
My point, again, is that you are not making it difficult for those who want to smuggle info, you are making it difficult to those who don't want to smuggle info, but would do it nevertheless.
Got it?
Sorry for the misformating.

Re:Your words 2.0 (fscking non-working preview)

[romeo_in_blk_jeans]

"Any person who wants to get information out of your company normally IMHO will be willing to put the phone in their rectum."

Forcing employees to resort to butt-smuggling is sort of like that guy at the walmart that checks receipts as people exit. If you really want to steal something, you're going to find a way. Casual theft by amateurs, however, will be stopped cold. Same principle here.

"Any person who takes information out otherwise is doing so accidentally OR incidentally ("Hey, how about we take this photo of the crew in front of the plutonium purifier?"). My point, again, is that you are not making it difficult for those who want to smuggle info, you are making it difficult to those who don't want to smuggle info, but would do it nevertheless."

If a person doesn't have to stash a camera phone in their anus, they most definitely will pull a stunt like this and then claim ignorance if confronted later. I'm not saying that they won't do it, but I am saying that forcing an object into your poop chute raises the difficulty of theft just a little.

At this point, I'm not sure I care so much about the debate as finding new and innovative ways of describing the insertion of an object past your O-ring.

walled garden?

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, you should still be able to do a 'hurt me plenty' and install whatever you like, ignoring all the warnings you get during spftware install. The main difference is the introduction of capabilities of any process running on the OS, and so when you install the random app, you get informed of the type of things the app wants to do to your phone. This can happen at runtime also for dialing numbers, etc...

Not all network operators conform to the 'walled gardens' stereotype. They're all interested in making revenue, but don't all agree on the best way of doing it.

Re:Title is misleading....

[Anonymous Coward]

I used to own a Nokia Communicator Brick, after I sold that my cel phones have been the P800, P900 and now the P910.

Ive done plenty of research on smartphones and my best friend uses a treo and we compare and brag about how much better our phone is, each with valid opinions.

In my opinion, the P910 is the best phone EVER, simple as that, because it is a cool phone first, PDA second, which is what most people get wrong in the smartphone world.

I'll give you an example, most of today's smartphones dont even have a telephone keypad, they use the pda screen with a virtual keypad. This sounds all good and cool except for one small thing. You cannot dial or send SMS messages without looking at the damn thing, I am very used to sending messages without looking at the phone because as every phone EVER the number 5 on the phone has a little bump (this is true to household phones as well) thanks to that bump your thumb can recognize where it is and you can guide yourself thru the keypad easily without having to look, perfect when driving and it just makes the whole ordeal faster.

When I had the p800 I accidentaly broke a small fragment of the flip and because the P800, as great as it was, was a cheap peace of plastic (it didnt have a hardware flip/keypad, all the keypad did was press on the touchscreen on to the virtual keypad, this was cheating!!) the phone stoped working because it was uneven with the virtual keypad so whenever i typed 5, the phone input a 4, whenever I typed 3, the phone input another character, this pissed me off so I took the flip off altogether and started using the virtual keyboard... this made my life HELL as I had to look where to press the numbers each time and make sure my thumb was in the right place so that i didnt dial another number by mistake.

Thankfully this was around the time the P900 was coming out so I sold that great but cheap p800 and absolutely LOVED my p900, the one good thing this phone was missing was a keyboard and the p910 gave me that.

Now I produly own the best smartphone in the market, I can do anything anybody with a pda, phone or ipod can do, I use it to call people, be on msn messenger, send/recieve emails, surf the web thru opera, check my movie listings, send MMS msgs, SMS msgs, hook up to my pc via bluetooth and share the gprs connection, listen to mp3's on the gym etc... No to mention ripping dvd movies and storing them on the memory stick duo and watching them sideways (widescreen mode) on the phone.

Now being honest, there are 4 real things the p910 phone is missing for it to become the grates achievement in mobile phone history (yes I am biased as shit, so what)

1. Better cammera
2. WIFI
3. A keyboard that lets you type in the dark
4. FM tuner

And as I can see on the new anouncement from ericsson, the P990 will have a better cammera, WIFI and a backlit keyboard, the only thing missing is the FM tunner which is the least important of the lot PLUS I already have the sony ericsson Radio for sony ericsson phones and I have to say its pretty cool, of course the best thing would be for the phone to have a fm tunner but it is already too much to ask.

Oh, also the new design looks completly badas specialy from the back.

All in all, the P990 seems like it will be the greatest moment since the big bang.

yea fuck you all