Slashdot Mirror
A Tool to Tally Podcast Listeners
Carl Bialik writes "The company Audible is making an effort to measure podcast audience, which could make the audio shows more attractive to advertisers. From the article: 'Currently in podcasts, "there's no measurability," says Matt Feinberg, a senior vice president for radio at Publicis Groupe SA's ZenithOptimedia. Advertisers have no idea if people are actually listening to podcasts, or if they're just downloading them and never playing them back, so there's no guidance for pricing the accompanying ads. "Prices -- people have been making them up," he says.' The service will cost podcasters: 'The company will charge three cents per downloaded podcast to report whether a downloader listened, and for how long. Audible will also offer tools that will stop the podcast from being emailed to others. It will charge five cents per download to track listening and attach the access restrictions. For half a cent per download, Audible will insert an ad relevant to the podcast.'"
I will simply not download that podcast. I have better things to do with my time than listen to DRM'd podcasts, and I'll let the podcaster know that.
Reminds me of Bill Hicks. "Oh, God! Please stop turning everything into dollar signs."
Why cant they simply use a system that registers every different IP that connects to the podcast/download page?
Advertisers have no idea if people are actually listening to podcasts, or if they're just downloading them and never playing them back, so there's no guidance for pricing the accompanying ads. "Prices -- people have been making them up," he says.' Let's keep it that way. Now the advertizers know how to feel how it is to be cheated. Please.. Why not just podcasting for the joy of it.. Keep yous shows real and ban out all the advertisement and privacy problem shit. Lets keep up raising the prices for advertisers-> the more we will actually hear and see what we really want to hear and see. This message was sponsered by The Dump-Mental-Waste Company.. Please see our website at http://www.microsoft.com/
I paid, and then I never listened!
That will stick it to the man!
im sorry, thats a dumb idea. i really dont feel like being "watched" as to which podcasts i listen to and which ones i dont. and who wants to pay?
i just dont see the draw to this...if there is one, someone point it out to me please.
I'm a podcaster, and this model is not only DRm'ed, it's also behind closed doors, and not open.
Feedburner seems to have a better tack on it, as it can reliably provide stats for free. Audible's model is a little scummy on the skim job. Feedburner coudl be the source for reliable stats for advertisers in the future.
As for revenue, I think that people are turned off by ads, but that seems to be where everyone is turning. It seems that listeners support is better, as if people like what you are doing, they might be willing to give you a couple of bucks a month via a Paypal subscribe.
The whole podcast expo seemed to be about how to sell Preparation H and iDogs in your podcast. If you feel people want to listen to that, go ahead, but podcasting's success is based largely around non-commercial radio and niche.
If there could be a non-annoying way to advertise, fine. But it seems that a ton of people are going to be begging for corporate dough, and wondering why no one is listening to their show anymore, as it has been changed to the Fibercon iDog Gizmondo Hour, fueled by Dew.
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http://www.75minutes.com/
man it is getting bad so far about the only things they dont make you pay for is breathing and death, man its getting bad
seems like me raido shows i like are now more adverts that chat
Nobody pays me for my casting when I sit on the pot, why should I pay for this you know what.
I wish Audible the best of luck in this utterly doomed venture.
You are in error. No-one is screaming. Thank you for your cooperation.
Because podcast clients automatically download content and the user may not actually listen to it.
Does that include spam and telemarketers, too?
I'm not entirely sure why they're not using 1 Download = 1 Listener, since Audible requires registration. The *best* thing about free podcasts to me is that they're in a format I can use on anything (MP3s). Any measuring method will require DRM and that's simply not something I'm willing to accept for free files, nor for Audible's overpriced content. The only reason I'd pay them for content is to *avoid* advertising, not so they can sell my ears.
Let me shout to the media: I'M PAYING FOR THE CONTENT I DON'T WANT ADS.
Unfortunately talk radio is missing out on this new technology entirely thanks to bumper music agreements with the RIAA and some unions. One of the few to get around it is the well known Rush Limbaugh, but he can do it largely because of his popularity.
Carl, turn in your geek badge.
Podcasting is for people who do not want commercials.
If commercials are put on podcasts, guess what's going to happen to podcasting.
"Piter, too, is dead."
So, does anybody have any idea how this, like, you know, works? Last I checked the iPod doesn't have any wireless capability, so how is the reporting done?
This is slightly off-topic but if you have a your own podcast reply to this thread with the link. It will be interesting to see what the Slashdot crowd has cooked up.
Hacker Media
"'The company will charge three cents per downloaded podcast to report whether a downloader listened, and for how long.'"
:P) which processes the data and reports which podcasts had the most listeners/viewers (video podcasts) and which site has the most popular podcasts. The media access control address (MAC address) of the computer would be attached to every filed report so that the site can discard it if the MAC address already downloaded a certain podcast onto their ipod, thus not allowing for duplicates.
:-/
I have a better idea
How about this: podcast makers tag their podcasts with a special "podcast" mp3 tag (what were they called again? ID3 tags?) which have the podcast site and date. The software which transfers these things to mp3 players then report this data to a central site (heck, apple.com or microsoft.com is fine
of course, everything would need to adopt this format, even explorer.exe if the mp3 player does drag and drop
hmm, maybe a firmware update can allow mp3 players to report the stats while theyre plugged in...
Viable Slashdot alternatives: https://pipedot.org/ and http://soylentnews.org/
It's called access_log :)
it's really easy to read, and gives me tons of info that marketers would need, like where, when, what browser/version you use, what os/version... if I actually cared about where I could run the ips through a location script. Best part is it's free..
A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing. Emo Philips
While it's true that some podcast client software just keeps downloading stuff you've pre-selected, I'd say that tracking the downloads of the files themselves is a pretty good way of estimating how many times something is listened to.
Not to mention, podcasters have a whole lot more statistics than, say, radio broadcasters do. This can even include a profile of the user based on all of the different podcasts he/she is subscribed to.
I interpreted this announcement as "Hey, instead of free and open podcasts, how about PAYING money for DRMed podcasts so that we can add ADVERTISEMENTS to them!"
Thanks, but no thanks.
DRM for the common man. I was sick of the "big labels" being the only ones that had say in restricting or hindering the usage of my entertainment. I'll take my restrictions indie-style and support the regular Joe's methods of hindrance. Man, I'm so emo.
Advertisers don't know if people look at their ads in magazines or newspapers, how many people actually look in the direction of their billboard, listen to their radio ad, or don't walk away when their TV commercial is on. Being able to see how many people download a podcast is probably more indicative of people that hear the ad compared to many other media.
They're just looking for MORE accurate data, but that's totally unnecessary. Ad agencies are very good at tracking usefulness of ad campaigns without specific numbers.
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. --Winston Churchill
There are many other sites that you can use to download a podcast. Why risk an ad being inserted by Audible by using Audible.com?
Just head elsewhere like www.podcastalley.com, or www.podshow.com, etc. Yeah I know they have ads on their sites, but at least they're not trying to insert targeted ads into podcasts.
For musical experimentation try www.garageband.com.
You can lose something that is loose, so tighten the loose item so you don't lose it.
Advertisers have managed to get radio and TV ratings when there was no back channel. It's not hard to figure out how to use equivalent techniques for podcasts.
Trying to measure podcasts by placing restrictions on them and creating back channels is a recipe for annoying customers, and it mainly shows how unimaginative the companies involved are. Don Katz (CEO of Audible) may rail against "old media", but he sure thinks like them, with his emphasis on DRM and control.
I imagine that iPods already have a software-readable serial number of some sort.
The server doesn't know your MAC address inherently, anyway. You'd have to send it to them specifically.
Just as you say: every program that plays MP3s has to track the MP3 statistics, so you're never going to get complete statistics. On the other hand, TV ratings aren't done by a complete statistic, either.
insert continuation of musical ditty here
I wonder whether fewer people read blogs or listen to podcasts? Both are hyper self-indulgent mediums for whiny, self-absorbed adolescents who actually seem to think that people besides themselves care what they are saying. And both are almost entirely wasted bandwidth.
GeekNights is a late night show for geeks. It's pretty new, but it's done by a couple of slashdotters, and I like it.
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Wouldn't it be cool if podcast hosting were provided for free, with automatic ad placement at the end, like in Revver? Plus, making money would really be nice.
There are ways to cut down the costs—archive.org (the Internet Archive) will host any file, allow unlimited downloads, and mirror it internationally over reasonably fast connections for free. 6GB of transfer and 400MB of storage space can be had online for $12/month (and I'm guessing plenty of /. readers know better deals than that). This is certainly a lot of storage for some fixed (X)HTML+CSS and an RSS file. If one can reliably get free Internet access whenever one needs to upload files, one could make a nice site that is regularly updated and features an RSS feed for less than $80/month.
So, I'm not entirely convinced that one needs to have ads here.
Digital Citizen
the Audible version of "The Da Vinci Code" costs $28.97, for example."
I found (through Amazon) Audible's price
on the audio version of the (abridged) DVC
Amazon sells the unabridged audio CD for $30,
the abridged version for $20
So.... I conclude that Audible is doing something right because they're linked through Amazon, and Amazon is pretty much it online.
Audible has a pop up guide to the format qualities they offer.
They offer 4 formats (1,2,3,4)
File size for 1 hour of audio
Telephone like 2 MB
AM Radio.......3.7 MB
FM Radio.......7.2 MB
MP3-like.........14.4 MB
I know speech compresses a lot better than music,
but @ 14.4MB/hour that comes out to 32 Kbps.
Isn't that a bit low?
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
...to create an Audible-DRM'd podcast railing against Audible's DRM and foolish business model?
"The newly born animals are then whisked off for a quick run through a giant baking oven." --heard on Food Network
If you want to know if people are actually paying attention to a new podcast, just reference the show notes and allow people to hit the show notes. You can then use the stats for that web page as a metric for advertisers. It is also a good place to put the logos/links for advertisers.
Another common approach would be to allow for a discount by providing a code for the discount. The code could be given during the podcast. The number of orders created with the discount code would be a good indicator of the success of the ad.
Brennan Stehling - http://brennan.offwhite.net/blog/
Kinda like Broadcast networks really know how many people are watching over-the-air shows/ads at any time? They seem to have no ethical problems guesstimating an audience size that an ad is likely to reach and adjusting advertising rates... even a 'downloaded by ip' statistic is better than 'sample sizing' from a neilson ratings machine, no?
Cheers.
This is my sig. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
What crap. Podcasts are nothing more than feeds (RSS, Atom, what have you) with enclosures, and it's trivial to track the readership of feeds. Hell, FeedBurner gives that service away for free!
These guys either don't understand what a podcast is, or don't care.
And I might leave my tv or radio on, but might not actually be watching or listening. Why should this be any different?
Pain lasts, kid. Its how you know you're alive. Sometimes I think this growing up thing is just pain management-TheMaxx
One of the best features of reading rss feeds using your feed reader is the absence of ads. The few podcasts that I listen to are mostly about programming and virtually free of any 'product placements'. I think the popularity of the podcasts come from the fact that it allows people to share their thoughts with someone else, and maybe make a difference in the life of the listener (it may be a small difference, for example talking about a new technique for input filtering when using PHP). Very few people do podcasts to make money. If the podcasters that I listen to start putting in ads and start putting restrictions on whether I can forward it ahead or not, I will not think twice before dropping it.
"Audible will also offer tools that will stop the podcast from being emailed to others."
You mean a free root kit?
What about a tool to tally porncast viewers??
== Jez ==
Do you miss Firefox? Try Pale Moon.
Aside from the obnoxious idea of trying to destroy the Podcast explosion with the lure of lucre, it's also interesting to note that Audible do not support Linux. The Audible automated support email service delivers a response that states quite strongly they have no intention of supporting Linux.
I can imagine that Audible and Microsoft are really good buddies.
True, but iTunes 4.9 at least, will stop downloading podcast after 5-6 episodes, if you don't listen to anything. Theese audiobooks are released one episode at a time. Fastest is one a day. Eventhough there might be 50 episodes, you can't download them all in one go, you have to wait. I figured I could start subscribing to 6 books and listen to them when they were finished... no go, I have to specifically tell iTunes to continue downloading after 5-6 episodes. This is both good and bad. I can see how logfiles can be analyzed to tell if people are actually listening or not. BUT .. why download if you don't intend to listen?
We also interview people from the fringes of the industry - indie game developers (save for Funcom in the very beginning), game cover bands, Atari aficionados, etc...
ITunes fails to update the "listened to" flag if a podcast is transferred to an iPod manually. I never do an auto sync on any iPod (save the shuffle) and I'm always resetting that subscription flag on iTunes.
they downloaded rather than 'catch an ad' as it whizzed by on a broadcast.
Audiences (readerships/listnerships/viewerships) can time-shift.
EVERY download is far more likely to be listened to than some nebulous broadcast listenership figure. Podcasts are end-user controllable.
You can't say that ads at one in the morning are worth less than ads at seven in the evening. Its ALL prime-time. That's one way the broadcast model gets defeated by the podcast model.
Audiences can pause at any time, even repeat segments. They can also skip over segments that aren't of interest. They can mark ads for deletion, but apart from ads that entertain or inform them, at the very moment they're catching it, audiences are ignoring them now.
Audiences can control the environment in which they receive the message. The problem that is possibly solved is one of indexing. Program notes can be far more explicit, second by second, segment by segment, searchable, indexes to the podcast content.
Podcasting is not a revolution in the destination. Its merely a refinement. All podcasts are prime-time. All podcast advertising is prime-time.
The popularity of the internet explains the popularity of what had previously not been possible. Previously limited market distribution venues, say the Alaska Podshow, are now accessible anywhere over the internet.
For example, while a transmitter for a broadcast from Anchorage to New York is clearly not economically feasable, a podcast from Scott Slone, the originator of the Alaska Podshow, to my iPod IS economically feasable and occurs whenever Scott Slone decides to put up a podcast and I decide to download it and listen to it.
Where podcasting IS revolutionary is at the source.
Before the advent of the internet, I, living as I do in New York, would never have heard of Scott Slone living as he does in Anchorage, and I would never have heard Scott Slone nor would I have heard nor heard of the Alaska Podshow.
The internet has achieved the supplementing of the broadcast model. And the personal computer has achieved the lowering of the barrier to entry to content creation.
It is now possible for Scott Slone to create the Alaska Podshow and it is nown possible for me to get it.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
Am I the only one who said "how about we NOT give the 'advertisers' ideas about this one" the first time i saw it? :P
So, let me get this straight.
These guys want to measure how often people listen to podcasts.
Podcasts. As in, things you listen to on an iPod, or other mobile music player.
Can these things even connect to the Internet at the moment?
Daylight come and me want to go home! :-)
The Rapture is NOT an exit strategy.
Why would I waste my time and my bandwidth downloading a podcast if I'm not going to listen to it?
-Rich
True, but the large majority of iTunes/iPod/podcast users use the software without changing any settings. Thus, when a user suddely "stops" updating a subscribed podcast (especially on podiobooks who have tight control and individual RSS feeds for each user) the logfiles will tell that the user has downloaded the first 5-6 episodes without listening to anything. Furthermore, if and when the user continues to download episodes, either he has started listening or has manually made iTunes continue to download. I assume, that the RSS feed log will contain some identification of the fact that iTunes is used.
.. but, with 25 million iPods and 200 million iTunes application downloads, quite a bit of the userbase will use that combination ..
I know, that not everybody uses iTunes
iTunes is not supposed to update playcount when syncing an iPod manually. Apple philosofy; either you are helped all the way (auto) or not at all (manual)
Just because sound is coming out of the earphones doesn't mean they are on my ears.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
Well, there are utillities out there that will update song play counts - but I never saw any reason to do so, save updating the files for Steve Gibson's podcasts.
Audible has excellent products and I'm a subscriber. I have a 2nd Gen iPod with nothing but audiobooks on it. To my knowledge there is no hack for audible's drm.
However, audiohijack from Rogue Amoeba will record just about any source and one could simply play DRM'ed into audiohijack to create a clean file.
How about I rig all my incoming media streams so that all commercials are stripped automatically? I can do this with my PC, I can do this to an extent with my TV, it shouldn't be a major problem to extend this to radio broadcasts, podcasts, or any kind of digital transmission (especially anything time-delayed).
In the future, I even expect to be able to digitally replace irrelevant in-show product placement with fictional brands in near to real time.
I don't read newspapers or magazines in paper format, so there goes that advertising channel. I don't buy many products with the brand name permanently visible (most of it goes into storage or behind doors or panels of some kind).
As soon as we can get sunglasses which blank out advertisements on buildings and billboards, the entire industry of advertising can be driven out of business and its ashes danced on with righteous glee!
Free clue to advertisers: Your industry is not 'necessary'. It is not 'helping'. It is built on the core function of pissing people off and getting in their face. Your entire existence is geared around wasting our time for the sole purpose of sucking on our wallets. Everyone with a shred of human decency hates you and all you stand for with a fiery passion. Entire counter-industries have been constructed purely to block your messages. In short, if you're in advertising, kill yourself.