Sony, Amazon Detail Rootkit CD Buybacks

An anonymous reader writes "Washingtonpost.com is reporting that Sony BMG today detailed a program that should allow customers who bought one of the 52 titles known to be tainted with the company's deeply flawed anti-piracy software to exchange them for CDs of the same title, sans rootkit of course. Oddly enough, Sony is offering those who want to return the CDs the chance to download MP3 versions of the discs, but only after Sony has received the returned discs. Amazon.com also is sending out e-mails to customers who bought the discs, offering to replace or refund them at no cost."

Comments

Download mp3s of the albums - Watermarking Test?

[sehlat]

And how will we know Sony isn't trying something *ELSE* with their dissatisfied customers as guinea pigs?

Sans

[wombatmobile]

sans rootkit of course.

Are you sure or are you just giving them the benefit of the doubt?

Re:Sans

[Sycraft-fu]

It'd be easy to tell probably. If the disc lacks a data sector, you can be sure there isn't one. CDs have different kinds of sectors for audio and data. So if it's all audio, there's no possibility of malicious software since there's no software.

Re:Sans

[LiquidCoooled]

On the Sony site, they are talking about a secure updater which removes the rootkit:

If you obtain regular security updates from a major anti-virus service, you should receive an update through that process. You may also download the update yourself from http://cp.sonybmg.com/xcp/english/updates.html.

The update its talking about simply removes the rootkit, but does not remove the copy protection portion.

Therefore, I believe these disks will still be executable in format (besides, any with images/videos on will need the media player software as well...)

Just read the home page on the sony site, they still don't get it:

Going forward, we will continue to identify new ways to meet demands for flexibility in how you and other consumers listen to music.

We just want true cds without any bullshit, plain and simple.

Re:Sans

[Stormwatch]

Easy, just check that it has the logo "Compact Disc Digital Audio" . If they put that on anything that is not compliant to the Red Book standard - that is, not a pure audio CD - Philips can sue them for trademark infringement.

Re:Sans

[BrokenHalo]

We just want true cds without any bullshit, plain and simple.

Just a thought:

Perhaps if Sony and all the others had really wanted to prevent copying, they should not have been so quick to abandon black vinyl for recordings. Sure, lots of us had reasonable tape recorders, but NOBODY believed their quality approached that of the original record, so if you could afford it, you would always go out and buy the real thing.

Re:Sans

[Halfbaked Plan]

Ah, but if there's an audio track, there could be data encoded in it.

There was an old Information Society CD like that. It had audio modem 'noise' in it that was supposedly readable. The name of the CD was 'Hack.'

Good old Insoc in the early 90's...

Re:Sans

[ZachPruckowski]

People are going to go over this with a fine-toothed comb now. I wouldn't be suprised if some of the people involved in the lawsuits bought a brand new computer, ran the CDs, and had experts look into it. If Sony does anything, they lose the major argument of "we're not evil, we were just ignorant that this could be an issue, we're truly sorry..."

In fact, I'm sure there are some people who are going to go over the DRM on every CD everywhere with a fine-toothed comb now.

Re:Sans

[JoeCommodore]

So if it's all audio, there's no possibility of malicious software since there's no software.

Ddn't people say that about JPEGs and other media files? If it involves a Windows player, there's a way...

Re:Sans

[Sycraft-fu]

Ok but that gets you nowhere. I have said CD and all my computer does is play the modem noise. In fact, you can take an exe file, rename it .wav, and add header information, and burn it to a CD. However since the computer thinks it's audio, it just plays it. The trick is you have to get a computer to execute the binary data. To do that, it has to be a data CD. That's just how they work. This is because when they are played, your computer doesn't even deal with decoding, the CD-ROM does it directly and just outputs the audio, hence the additonal connector.

Re:Sans

[Sycraft-fu]

No, sorry, not so much, read up on CD standards. A pure audio CD is never interpreted as data by anything, in fact it's not interpreted at all, it's just a dump of raw data to be sent to the DACs. Also, in nearly every computer setup, it never has the chance to hit software. The CD-ROM directly plays the audio, the CPU isn't involved. When there's audio tracks in a valid format on a CD, a CD-ROM will accept play commands and will play and decode the tracks. They then have seperate outputs, these days a 2-wire S/PDIF out and a 4-wire analogue out. Those connect directly to the soundcard, which mixes the audio and outputs it to the speakers.

There's no room to do any kind of overflow since the signal chain bypasses the processor entirely. Also the data is in a simple, well defined format. It's 16-bits per sample, 44,100 samples per second, 2 channels. That's all it can be, you can't write any other kind of data. You could put something else on the track, technicly, however it'll be interpreted and 44.1khz 16-bit PCM and sent to the DACs as such.

Re:Sans

[icydog]

A pure audio CD is never interpreted as data by anything, in fact it's not interpreted at all, it's just a dump of raw data to be sent to the DACs.

Sooo... is it data or not?

You could say a lot of the same stuff about JPEG, GIF, etc. They're all well-defined formats and shouldn't ever be interpreted as anything but images. But still, there are problems...

Go browse an audio CD in Explorer, and you get a bunch of .cda files. Windows did have to do something for that to be displayed, and I'm sure some computation occurred there. And CDDB lookups certainly do some processing.

I think that audio CDs have the *potential* to carry bad things (viruses, spyware, rootkit... whatever) but just to be clear, it's not like I think Sony or anybody else is going to produce one of these CDs anytime soon.

Re:Sans

[Anonymous Coward]

>
Easy, just check that it has the logo "Compact Disc Digital Audio" . If they put that on anything that is not compliant to the Red Book standard - that is, not a pure audio CD - Philips can sue them for trademark infringement.

Are you sure of that ?

I thought that the CDDA logo cannot use on something that is NOT a CD audio, like a dual layer CD/DVD, or something that cheats with error correction codes.

But a CD with normal audio tracks followed by a single standard (drm-filled) data track, would still be CDDA.

Re:Sans

[Sycraft-fu]

Go read the Red Book standard some time. It's well defined how audio CDs work. The .cda thing you see is just Windows showing you it's an audio CD and letting you pick tracks, there is no actual data like that on the disc.

You seem to misunderstand the difference between a processed and unprocessed format. GIF and JPEG must be processed. The data is stored in a mathematicaly compressed format. You need something to convert that to raw data for display, and that something is the CPU. Thus since there's code being exectued b the processor, there's the possibility of something going wrong and arbitrary code execution.

That doesn't happen with a CD, the data is on there in a raw format. It is just read off and fead directly in to a DAC in the CD-ROM itself, or out via S/PDIF to a DAC on the soundcard. There's nothing to overflow because it never hits the CPU, and it's all done in hardware. DACs are very simple, they just get fed amplitude levels at a given clock rate, and they make the analogue output voltage match that. They do no processing.

But by all means, if you think you are smart enough to build an exploit in to a purely audio CD, then do it and show how. However you should probably learn about the format and the signal flow first. You'd have an easier time exploiting a text editor than a pure audio CD.

No Cash?

[mysqlrocks]

No option to get cash back? I'd want my money back if I were one of the unfortunate people who had bought one of these CDs.

Re:No Cash?

[the_unknown_soldier]

Not RTFA is fine. But not even reading the summary? You can get a refund.

Re:No Cash?

[SoCalChris]

If you bought it from Amazon...

How many people bought them at WalMart, Best Buy, Circuit City, Warehouse, etc...? Are they able to get a refund?

Re:No Cash?

[whathappenedtomonday]

Not RTFA is fine. But not even reading the summary? You can get a refund.

He's probably one of the unfortunate people who had bought one of these CDs. *shudders*

Re:No Cash?

[zxnos]

looking at the list of artists, unfortunate would be correct... ...;>

Re:No Cash?

[Anonymous Coward]

I think you should ask for more than your purchase price back. These disks, if not returned for destruction, have the ability to hurt Sony for many years to come, and Sony must know this. The disks have a long lifespan and each one of them could cause damage to multiple computers if it were passed around.

I would offer to sell the disk(s) to Sony for twice the original price, plus (if one of them infected my computer) the cost of a complete professionally-done system and software re-install, plus $5-100/hour for my time.

Re:No Cash?

[Anonymous Coward]

I forgot to include the most important point: If Sony's escapade becomes widespread knowledge (if it hasn't already) then ALL of Sony's music disks will be suspect, and will be avoided by the masses. It is or will be EXTREMELY important to Sony that it get them all out of the public's hands.

Re:No Cash?

[dadioflex]

Even if you didn't buy it at Walmart you could get your money back there.

Re:No Cash?

[mysqlrocks]

Actually, I read Sony's page on the matter which made no mention of a refund even though the slashdot title misleadingly says "CD Buybacks." Oh, and the slashdot summary (not title) makes no mention of a refund, only exchange. Did you read the RTFA? Slashdot summaries are typically useless and misleading - it's very typical for them to be misleading or just downright wrong. I was commenting on TFA not on the TFS.

Re:No Cash?

[DDLKermit007]

Oh how true that is.

Re:No Cash?

[jimicus]

That's all very nice if you've got the expertise to remove the rootkit. What if you don't? What if you do, but by the time you got around to dowloading Sony's rootkit removal tool you've been infected with a virus which took advantage of it?

I assume Sony will reimburse you for the time and effort involved in fixing this, yes?

MP3 files

[arth1]

I bet that the MP3's will be watermarked with the individual downloader's unique ID, so Sony/RIAA can later sue their customers...

That said, what bitrate, frequency and codec is used for the MP3s?

Regards,
--
*Art

Re:MP3 files

[Anonymous Coward]

Not watermarking to sue... watermarking to "prove their point" that they need the rootkit stuff because if they distribute mp3s, they will be spread throughout the internet and ruin their revenues.

Re:MP3 files

[Anonymous Coward]

I better hope that the codec would be "MPEG 2, layer 3"!

It would be really funny if it's a DRM'd WMA file that they just renamed .mp3 !

Re:MP3 files

[masklinn]

That said, what bitrate, frequency and codec is used for the MP3s?

It doesn't matter, the sole fact that they're trying to swap CDs with mp3 is a joke already, no matter what the quality is.

Re:MP3 files

[Anonymous Coward]

Funny because such a file would only work on a system where the filetype isn't tied to the extension (i.e. *nix).

In reality they'd probably give out 32kbps mono MP3s after they take the CDs off the paying customers, just to remind them who controls their life.

Re:MP3 files

[jacksonj04]

Doubt it will work. The chances are any decent quality first-to-p2p version will be ripped by someone who has a clue.

Re:MP3 files

[minuszero]

Judging by their alleged previous use, probably LAME encoded...

although you can bet they'll be DRMed too.

Re:MP3 files

[slavemowgli]

Bitrate, OK... frequency, OK... but codec? They're *MP3s*, for goodness' sake. MP3 is not a container format like Ogg, it *is* the codec. I'm sorry, but I'll have to confiscate your geek license now. :)

Re:MP3 files

[Sunrun]

Actually, if you read the exchange site, you'll find that they're offering the MP3s in addition to the "rootkitless" CDs, not in place of them.

Re:MP3 files

[Halfbaked Plan]

I'm not that up on the latest 'digital audio' fads and trends, but I will state that I compiled the MPEG reference source code back in the mid nineties and made what were then called MP2 files using my old '486 system (they were SLOW to encode using that old non-optimized code on a 486). It's my understanding that there are various implementations of the MP3 encoding algorhythm and that some are considered better than others.

You can't have my 'geek license' and if you try to take it I'll jab you with my soldering iron and/or strangle you with #30 wire-wrap wire. What were OS were you running in 1994, BTW? (*suspicious look*)

Re:MP3 files

[arth1]

Bitrate, OK... frequency, OK... but codec? They're *MP3s*, for goodness' sake. MP3 is not a container format like Ogg, it *is* the codec. I'm sorry, but I'll have to confiscate your geek license now. :)

Would that it was that easy. You have two Layer III container formats (MPEG1 and MPEG2), and multiple MP3 variations, including variable bitrate (VBR) encoding and codec variations like MP3pro. Yes, there are incompatibilities.

My Pinnacle Showcenter can't play mono MP3 files or MP3pro.
My Sony Clie PDA can't play VBR files or MP3pro.
My car stereo can't play MPEG2 or bitrates above 256kbps.
My Sony Ericsson Walkman W800i phone handles all of the above (but for some strange reason won't handle Sony's own ATRAC3 format!)

So, MP3 != MP3 != MP3

Regards,
--
*Art

Lawsuits?

[r_glen]

A refund isn't enough - I hope to see some lawsuits go forward against Sony, as the very least to scare other companies from trying something like this.

Re:Lawsuits?

[FatMacDaddy]

I read yesterday that a class-action (naturally) lawsuit has been filed in California. I don't have a link handy, but you could probably find it easily yourself. The problem is that these sorts of lawsuits rarely give the companies enough financial discomfort to make any real difference. The lawyers can get rich, of course, but nothing really changes from my experience. (I still have a copy of Bill Lockyer's letter congratulating me on getting my claim share on the record labels' price fixing settlement. And what a difference that has made. NOT!)

Re:Lawsuits?

[Anonymous Coward]

A refund isn't enough

Precisely - much as I like some Sony products, they've been gunning for an ass-kicking for quite some time.

Nice to see them bend over & present frankly.

Re:Lawsuits?

[dorkygeek]

Here we go: Sony hit by lawsuits over root kit.

Re:Lawsuits?

[dragonfly_blue]

I agree - we need to send a message to Sony/BMG Music that treating their customers like criminals is unacceptable, and make it expensive enough of a lesson that other companies considering similar tactics are encouraged to evaluate their options more carefully.

Re:Lawsuits?

[Anonymous Coward]

What about 2nd hand CD's.

I buy all my cd's used/secondhand or borrow from the local library nowadays.
I have an infected computer, and no legal recourse other than join a class action.

Refusal to undo harm, and ignore classes of injured plantiff's deserves maximum damages.

Sue,Grabbit,and Runn, Attorney.

Re:Lawsuits?

[Anonymous Coward]

It may be kind of evil, but I kind of hope that a virus WILL take advantage of it. Hopefully not doing any serious damange, but enough to make the public really hate this kind of control.

I am INCREDIBLY offended by Sony's actions

[Work Account]

I have owned Sony Walkmen, Playstation, Playstation 2, etc.

I have owned dozens of Sony CDs.

I have 6 Sony audio components.

I will NEVER buy another Sony product ever again, and I urge ALL of you to do the same.

Re:I am INCREDIBLY offended by Sony's actions

[Chr0nik]

I'm with you. No more sony for me. I thought they were over priced, and lacking the quality that used to justify their prices anyway. I even cancelled my SOE subscription.

Re:I am INCREDIBLY offended by Sony's actions

[arth1]

I have owned Sony Walkmen, Playstation, Playstation 2, etc.

I have owned dozens of Sony CDs.

I have 6 Sony audio components.

I will NEVER buy another Sony product ever again, and I urge ALL of you to do the same.

Keep in mind that this is Sony/BMG, where Sony only owns 50%, and where BMG were the ones who brought DRM into the picture. Sony on the other hand is selling MP3 players and Vaio PCs with bundled ripping-hadware/software.

Anyhow, heads *should* roll over this in Sony. Instead I fear they will just sue First4Internet and pretend that ignorance is acceptable.

Regards,
--
*Art

Re:I am INCREDIBLY offended by Sony's actions

[BushCheney08]

Could you please point to your source regarding BMG being the ones who brought DRM into the picture? You make it sound like Sony is new to the music game. They've been at it for a very long time, via the Sony Group, Columbia Records, Epic Records, and many imprints that fall under those labels.

Re:I am INCREDIBLY offended by Sony's actions

[HardCase]

I will NEVER buy another Sony product ever again, and I urge ALL of you to do the same.

Sony earns royalties from every CD and DVD sold, as well as most of the hardware. Uh oh.

Re:I am INCREDIBLY offended by Sony's actions

[krbvroc1]

Keep in mind that this is Sony/BMG, where Sony only owns 50%, and where BMG were the ones who brought DRM into the picture.

Isn't this the same Sony who tried to foist their ATRAC proprietary codec on us which locks us into their hardware and requires their Sonicstage crap? I don't think that is the BMG side.

Re:I am INCREDIBLY offended by Sony's actions

[masklinn]

Keep in mind that this is Sony/BMG, where Sony only owns 50%, and where BMG were the ones who brought DRM into the picture. Sony on the other hand is selling MP3 players and Vaio PCs with bundled ripping-hadware/software.

Wanna bet? Sony doesn't give heck about their customers, not only their products are often no more than average, but they want full control over their customers (backers of blu-ray, DRM schemes, ... )

Had you ever played a SoE MMORPG (be it either EverQuest or EverQuest 2), you'd know how Sony does not give a rat's ass about customer satisfaction and has only one desire: fuck said customer until it's ass bleeds.

Re:I am INCREDIBLY offended by Sony's actions

[arth1]

Could you please point to your source regarding BMG being the ones who brought DRM into the picture?

Easy enough to google for. One recent entry.

Regards,
--
*Art

Re:I am INCREDIBLY offended by Sony's actions

[arth1]

I never said that Sony excels at customer support. My point was that Sony BMG is not the same as Sony, and that (perhaps especially) with Sony, one hand doesn't know what the other is doing. Thus you had ATRAC3 being pushed at the same time as they sold CD burners, and now you have Vaio ripping stations and MP3 playing Walkman cell phones being sold at the same time as CDs that won't work with either.

Perhaps Sony has become so big that it's time for a split. Sony BMG is obviously not part of Sony itself (they own half of it), and appears to work too independent of the parent company.

As for Sony's history, remember that they started out as Sonitape, making tapes enabling people to copy music. That's been part of their core business for a LONG time, even though it doesn't fit with the business model of some of their new veeps.

Regards,
--
*Art

Re:I am INCREDIBLY offended by Sony's actions

[BushCheney08]

Thanks for the link. However, this was one of a whole 3 articles that comes up for a google news search for "sony bmg rootkit merger". Also, the article doesn't particularly offer a whole lot of proof that it was BMG that brought this along, other than saying that BMG has used DRM in the past. It should be noted that ALL of the (now 4) major labels have used forms of DRM in the past...

Re:I am INCREDIBLY offended by Sony's actions

[rm69990]

Yeah, I have one of those discmans. I used ATRAC until the day came where I wanted to rip some files onto a friends computer from the disc. I promptly erased the disc and put mp3's on it when I got home. Luckily, the discman can also play mp3's.

Re:I am INCREDIBLY offended by Sony's actions

[tyllwin]

I'm not going to boycott Sony over this. Not Sony hardware at least. BUT, Sony's not the cheapest on the market. I bought my Sony receiver, and my daughter's Sony camcoder, for example, because I had some degree of TRUST in their products. If they shatter that, and they have, why exactly would I pay a premium for Sony products? I'm far less likely to buy Sony than I was, and it's not because I'm boycotting -- they've simply destroyed part of the value I found in them. Now they're no different from "unnamed manufacturer which I mistrust."

Maybe they could regain some trust from me. If I saw (1) a disavowal of their subsidiary's actions, (2) an unequivocal admission and apology, (3) a couple of executives fired without parachutes, and (4) a lawsuit against First4Internet sufficient to bankrupt them, I might start. But right now, I'm left feeling that Sony thinks they have a PR problem, not that they think they did something deeply wrong.

Re:I am INCREDIBLY offended by Sony's actions

[Anonymous Coward]

Keep in mind that this is Sony/BMG, where Sony only owns 50%, and where BMG were the ones who brought DRM into the picture.

No doubt Sony will try this, but it doesn't wash. So if my right hand does something wrong my left hand isn't guilty? Sort of a convenience play.

Anyhow, heads *should* roll over this in Sony. Instead I fear they will just sue First4Internet and pretend that ignorance is acceptable.

Somehow I don't think this will work for Sony. If First4Internet included it without telling Sony, I would agree. But Sony/BMG went out and paid them for it, then loaded it on their product and then distributed it to their paying customers.

If BMG did it, and Sony executives claim they didn't know about it it does sure should raise the red flag on what does Sony pay them for. So sooner or later, I would expect Sony to wax a dozen top level people.

In reality, it is just another classic example of executive corporate stupidity.

Re:I am INCREDIBLY offended by Sony's actions

[Plaid Phantom]

Oh, well it's not like any of us actually buy CDs and DVDs anyway. ;)

Re:I am INCREDIBLY offended by Sony's actions

[trudyscousin]

...and where BMG were the ones who brought DRM into the picture."

Is that so?

Sony pulled the same crap with Celine Dion's album A New Day Has Come in 2002 using their key2audio DRM--the scheme that could be defeated with a felt-tip marker.

As far as I'm concerned, there should have been the same degree of outrage then as there is now.

Re:I am INCREDIBLY offended by Sony's actions

[Anonymous Coward]

Except those Vaio PCs laptops don't last... 6 m and my LCD panel died and got replaced with one with dead pixels. A second laptop overheats to the point the case has partially burnt out.

Thanks Sony for those cute paperweights...

Re:I am INCREDIBLY offended by Sony's actions

[penix1]

"My point was that Sony BMG is not the same as Sony, and that (perhaps especially) with Sony, one hand doesn't know what the other is doing. Thus you had ATRAC3 being pushed at the same time as they sold CD burners, and now you have Vaio ripping stations and MP3 playing Walkman cell phones being sold at the same time as CDs that won't work with either."

In that case they shouldn't have acquired (or been allowed to acquire) BMG. The parent company *IS* the responsible entity. That is why you have language in law like "they knew or should have known". If it's good enough for lawyers it's good enough for me...

B.

Re:I am INCREDIBLY offended by Sony's actions

[penix1]

"But right now, I'm left feeling that Sony thinks they have a PR problem, not that they think they did something deeply wrong."

And that's it in a nutshell. Since all they can think about is money, I'm going to oblidge them. I AM boycotting Sony and everything dealing with them. A boycott of BMG alone does nothing to address the Sony corporate issue of accountability.

B.

Re:I am INCREDIBLY offended by Sony's actions

[game kid]

I'm shocked that no one has mentioned SOCOM 3's credit card farming^Wverification system yet, which has gotten thousands of CC numbers from SOCrack addicts* who consider their clan/friends list system the only real way to play.

Sure, it's Zipper Interactive doing it, but (like the XCP discs) Sony publishes and "presents" the damn product. I think the fact Zipper enticed people to give them a CC and address made Sony's heads swell and set them towards the XCP route. They thought they could do anything, and they still hope to (see Top Questions, #10).

*me included

Re:I am INCREDIBLY offended by Sony's actions

[saskboy]

Check out http://www.boycottsony.com/ for some organizational goodness.

Re:I am INCREDIBLY offended by Sony's actions

[hurfy]

And made good tapes...many of which are still good 20+ years later :)

SONY turntable to radioshack EQ to SONY tape deck to SONY tape. They may have had a small hand in copying in the past, hehe.

Can you believe as a teen i actually used quality tape to copy my albums !

Thanks Sony you saved my record collection from extinction i wouldn't want to buy all those again...now pull your heads out please ;p

Ok, i actually have most of my original albums.

Do they still make blank tapes...might be willing to still buy those from Sony ;)

Re:I am INCREDIBLY offended by Sony's actions

[Anonymous Coward]

This sure doesn't give anyone an excuse to pirate music instead of purchasing it legally! Let's see, pirate the music and you MIGHT get caught. Purchase legally, and their rootkit WILL cause you problems. Which choice do you make? Thanks Sony, you just cut your own throat with this stupid BS. Say hello to large groups of people creating their own offline groups to lend/borrow CDs. There's plenty of good music already out there; I'll never need to buy any more.

Re:I am INCREDIBLY offended by Sony's actions

[daikokatana]

Keep in mind that this is Sony/BMG, where Sony only owns 50%, and where BMG were the ones who brought DRM into the picture.

Whether it was Sony, BMG or both who introduced this DRM fiasco, it is time for the public to let them know how we feel on this subject.

The grandparent already mentioned never buying a Sony product (I'd limit it to CD's) again - I'd even take it a step further. From now on, each time I encounter a CD I want with a Sony/BMG label on the back, I'm sending them an email in which I explain that I was interested in purchasing said CD, but I won't because they keep treating their customers as criminals.

Maybe this DRM fiasco, combined with enough public voices, could bring them to reason?

Re:I am INCREDIBLY offended by Sony's actions

[unitron]

"Maybe they could regain some trust from me. If I saw..."

Hey, c'mon, this is a Japanese company. We shouldn't settle for anything less than self-spilled intestines all around.

Re:I am INCREDIBLY offended by Sony's actions

[Secrity]

It could be because Van Zant listeners care more about privacy and what's right than Celine Dion listeners.

T3h 3v1L!!!!!!!111

[Anonymous Coward]

http://img169.imageshack.us/full.php?image=helloki tty6na.jpg

Turn of the tide?

[Anonymous Coward]

Nice of Amazon to do this, since it wasn't really their rootkit (or maybe they're thinking about potential liability, doesn't really matter).

It'd be great if Amazon and other big vendors refused to carry discs with this sort of horrible DRM. That'd probably get the music company's attention a little better than a few geeks organizing a boycott.

Re:Turn of the tide?

[GroeFaZ]

It's no wonder Amazon plays along nicely. In the end, what company would want a piece of this PR disaster that's currrently all Sony's and first4internet's?

Re:Turn of the tide?

[E8086]

"It's no wonder Amazon plays along nicely."

I wonder if they're playing nice or are as pissed off at Sony as the people with infected computers. It's possible Sony 'forgot' to tell the CD retailers about the full effects of the rootkit in their new type of DRMed disks and/or just passed them off as their older type of "copy protected" disks that don't work with all CD players.

Re:Turn of the tide?

[ghoti]

I would assume that Sony is paying Amazon for that. Either that, or they have a contract that requires them to do that. There's really no other reason for Amazon to "play nice", since this simply isn't their fault.

Re:Turn of the tide?

[lysander]

I could totally believe amazon is playing nice. Amazon is all about having the best customer experience possible. Have you ever tried to get something returned/exchanged from amazon? It was the smoothest experience I could imagine. They immediately mailed a replacement with expedited shipping and provided a USPS printout to cover the return shipping.

Re:Turn of the tide?

[flupps]

There's a store in Sweden that mark all their CDs in their online listing with a *.

I think that's a good way, they stand out in listings when you search and you can
chose very easily not to buy the CDs with DRM or copy protection.

http://www.ginza.se/index.aspx?artnr=12001

That's an example of a CD with Copy Protection on it.
It's nonintrusive enough for people that don't care, and
easy enough for me that do care to see if it has something
on it, if I see the * I just won't get it.

Updates

[dorkygeek]

Why does Sony not simply provide an update for their rootkit? Improved security, expanded DRM, and distinguished keylogging, get it all now with Sony's rootkit 2.0. New and improved.

Always at your service

sincerely yours, Sony.

Re:Updates

[Anonymous Coward]

It's a joke you morons.

Re:Updates

[ChilyWily]

Yep - the silly thing is that despite all the negative publicity, no one wants to ask how this 'helps' the artist and how it *never* helped anyone but Sony. This is another clusterf*ck brought to you by Sony. I suspect we still have a ways to go with this one.

Re:Updates

[gangofvirtue]

Why does Sony not simply provide an update for their rootkit? Improved security, expanded DRM, and distinguished keylogging, get it all now with Sony's rootkit 2.0

And most of their music's rubbish, so let's not bother including any of that at all ...

... unless, in an easily-overlooked part of the EULA for your shiny new rootkit, they sneak a Neil Diamond track onto your hard drive as one last act of revenge.

New Icon?

[Anonymous Coward]

Time for Slashdot to update its icon list methinks.

Everyone with a link for a slashdot "Sony rootkit" icon please post in reply.

After all - we're at a SCO level of /. stories now :-)

Refund them at no cost, eh?

[R.Mo_Robert]

offering to replace or refund them at no cost

Re:Refund them at no cost, eh?

[Anonymous Coward]

Ekk, I accidentally hit Submit instead of Preview, and it was too late. Anyway, hope you still get the point of my post. :-)

what about uninstall?

[Anonymous Coward]

Sony seems to be in PR-damage control mode but they could care less about the customers. Sony *still* has failed to release any sort of uninstaller that truly cleans up the affected systems. Great move, there.

Re:what about uninstall?

[MikoLone]

That's what I'm screaming. So they refund the cd and do nothing about the rootkit? They should get everyones computer cleaned up instead of giving out cds!

Re:Download mp3s of the albums - Watermarking Test

[Anonymous Coward]

Because they are already in trouble. This is the worst time to test the waters.

what about..

[ltwally]

"Sony BMG today detailed a program that should allow customers who bought one of the 52 titles known to be tained with the company's deeply flawed anti-piracy software to exchange them for CDs of the same title, sans rootkit of course."

What about damages incurred to those who unknowingly installed the rootkit? What about the cost of removal? IMHO, it would be in Sony's best interest to offer something beyond just replacing the defective rootkit'd product... As an added incentive to Sony, such an action might look good in their up-coming trials from the lawsuits resulting from their rootkit.

Re:what about..

[interiot]

Aren't product recalls a more or less accepted ultimate form of saying "sorry, we screwed up", other than losing a lawsuit? I understand and agree that this case is different from a seatbelt that could come lose, or a tire that could cause a rollover, but even in those cases, since the damage can be variable (eg. anywhere from no additional loss, to a bruised nose, to death), I thought it was up to individual people to address any additional costs on an individual basis, possibly in court?

At least in this case, the rootkit clearly poses an ongoing risk to users, the "no additional loss" scenario is already gone, so it may be appropriate for users to file a class-action lawsuit.

Re:what about..

[interiot]

(my point was basically that, in terms of legal or technical issues, Sony perhaps should go one or two steps further... but in the court of public opinion, people who aren't familiar with rootkits may well think that Sony has done everything they could do, especially since nothing spectacular like SUV rollovers occured)

Worst 52 albums ever

[IMightB]

Holy cow! That line up sucks! It reads like a Worst 52 Albums of all time list.

Re:Worst 52 albums ever

[nathanh]

Holy cow! That line up sucks! It reads like a Worst 52 Albums of all time list.

G3: Live in Tokyo was performed by Joe Satriani, Steve Vai and John Petrucci. Arguably the greatest rock guitarists of all time. It's a great album. You might not know the names but you'd definitely know their songs; e.g. Surfing With The Alien by Joe Satriani. The G3 series has been awesome with appearances by Eric Johnson and Yngwie Malmsteen.

And Neil Diamond rocks.

Re:Worst 52 albums ever

[Anonymous Coward]

Keep smoking you washout.

Re:Worst 52 albums ever

[dreamt]

Thank you! I was looking over the comments people have posted about the other CDs on that list, and of course, realized that most people probably have never even heard of G3, the tour. The G3 show w/ Petrucci was an incredible show -- Everyone who saw the G3 show w/ Petrucci should get his solo disc Suspended Animation right away (indy label).

law-suits do work

[vivek7006]

Even if lawyers end up making lots of money from them, law-suits do work. Boycotting is not enough, voting with your wallets is not enough. The best way to stick it to the man is to file law-suits!

Re:law-suits do work

[symbolic]

This is truly the equal of two evils. If a law were passed that forbid an law firm or attorney from collecting any more than a certain percentage of the overall award, it would help immensely. However, I remember about three years go, when American Express was being sued by a class claiming that Amex had been less than forthcoming about the terms of their travel insurance plan (I think that was it, but I might be wrong). In any event, the proposed settlement was that the class get $15K, and the attorneys walk away with about $4 million. I have no idea what the final ruling was, but I was appalled that some back-assed law firm would have the gall to propose something like this.

Re:law-suits do work

[terrymr]

There's a surprising amount of work that goes into processing class action claims, that is what the fee is for. It's not just collecting a fee and mailing a bunch of checks to class members.

Re:law-suits do work

[symbolic]

This make no difference whatsoever.

Since the class was harmed, and not the attorneys, it only stands to reason that the class should receive the bulk of WHATEVER payout is involved. In this particular case, it was clearly evident that the attorneys had picked two token class members to receive the massive $15K in compensation, while they (may have) walked away with a mountain of cash. The purpose of a class action suit is not to enrich greedy lawyers, but to seek compensation for damage to class members. If 20% of $4 million isn't enough, then I'd encourage them find some other profession and quit polluting the legal system with their tainted brand of 'justice'.

Re:law-suits do work

[terrymr]

I'm not sure what case we're talking about anyway ... the only Amex travel insutance case I've found so far is still ongoing. It would be extremely weird to see a case where the class members only got a total of $15,000 with a 4 million fee to the lawyers.

Re:law-suits do work

[symbolic]

It's possible that this case is still ongoing. But I assure you, I was aware of a proposed settlement right along the lines of what I described (assuming it's the same case). You can probably look the case up in the California Circuit Court (I've forgotten which one).

Re:law-suits do work

[terrymr]

Well I'm pretty sure such a settlement would not be approved ... the fee has to represent the work done. The courts scrutinize the billing to make sure that the fee claimed relates to the work done.

I work in a law office that handles some class action claims ... and I can tell you that in the biggest case, work is still ongoing to make sure claims are paid and people receive what they're due some 5+ years after it was settled.

Hmm

[Trip Ericson]

Step 1: Buy DRMed CD off a friend cheap.
Step 2: Return to Sony.
Step 3: Download free MP3s.
Step 4: ???
Step 5: PROFIT!

Re:Hmm

[GroeFaZ]

uh...

Step 1: Download free MP3s. Step 2: ??? Step 3: PROFIT!

Re:Hmm

[Anonymous Coward]

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh....Don't spoil my fun.

Re:Hmm

[JWtW]

"Step 3: Download free MP3s."

Why do I have to download them? Can't the rootkit just go fetch 'em?

MP3 poisoning howto

[dtfinch]

Let customers download the MP3s via a server side script which quietly puts their customer number for tracking and a hash for non-repudiation into the ID3 tags, which'll survive most transcoding. Then if it appears on a P2P network (not likely, unless it's not already there), they'll know who did it.

Re:MP3 poisoning howto

[Anonymous Coward]

I guess 5 seconds after the two first guys have downloaded their mp3's (they are obviously die-hard hackers) they have run diff on those files, and if the files are not equal after 10 minutes we'll learn what kind of tracker Sony has put there...

Re:MP3 poisoning howto

[LiquidCoooled]

Anyone who publicly shares Celine Dion tracks deserves to be publically ridiculed anyway, so bring it on I say :)

Re:MP3 poisoning howto

[jeti]

That's called watermarking and not poisoning.

If it's inaudible, I don't have anything about
watermarking, and I think it's better for the
customer than DRM.

But what would it prove if watermarked files
appear in P2P applications? Only that someone
or something legally or illegally gained access
to the files and put them there.

Re:Download mp3s of the albums - Watermarking Test

[sedyn]

Furthermore, they want to stay out of trouble.

Even if it is a few years down the road, if damage is done to a computer then sony might still be in trouble.

How well does a public recall mitigate resposibility for second-hand owners who bought the product after a recall work? Assuming that a case has been attempted in the past.

Merely a slap on the wrist, but the future is bad

[Coopjust]

Recalling the CD's is merely a slap on the wrist. It doesn't cost Sony as nearly as much money as a lawsuit, costs Amazon money, and it does not repair the damage to numerous artists names by this rootkit.

If Sony actually would own up to their stupid mistake, the artists wouldn't be impacted so much. Look at Van Dant's CD on Amazon. 1.5 stars, 300 reviews, most mentioning the rootkit. Do you think that he'll fare so well in the future.

I have lost faith in Sony. Propietary formats and other things were a little odd, but I accepted them. But rootkits, a patent for games that only play on the console they were originally put in...seems like a ridiculous infringement on user rights.

Rather than losing money to pirates, people will turn to better solutions and Sony will be the loser.

They can buy the rootkits back

[ardchoille]

..but they'll never live this fiasco down.

It is a start...

[chord.wav]

This is good news I guess.
Yet, I think they still need to change their policy/behaivor regarding these-but-not-limited-to items for me to like them:

-Support for non-Sony flash media in digital cameras and other products.

-Standard power jacks: How hard could that be???? OK this one applies to almost every company.

-And CSI Miami sucks...

Re:It is a start...

[Aldric]

"-Standard power jacks: How hard could that be???? OK this one applies to almost every company."

Amen! I'm so sick of having to keep half a dozen chargers around when nearly all of it needs the same 12 volt DC.

Whew...

[GmAz]

Dodged a bullet there. I thought they would be popular titles people would auctually buy. I sure feel sorry for those couple hundred people that have the rootkit on their system from buying the CD.

Re:Whew...

[bforsse]

Seriously, just imagine if it shipped on any top 40 cds, just before xmas! Lanterns and pitchforks @ sony HQ on Dec 26th...

Re:Whew...

[CastrTroy]

I've noticed this a lot with copy protected CDs. Most the the time they seem to be artists that a very small percentage of the population listen to. The only artist I see on the list that is even somewhat popular is Our Lady Peace.

Re:Whew...

[Alioth]

That's because Sony are doing a public beta test. They don't want to use copy protection on anything popular until it's proven to be trouble free - so use some customers who you don't particularly care losing to do your testing for you.

Re:Whew...

[dastardly_villain]

Maybe but quite a few of those titles are very popular....at least enough to have gold or platinum selling CDs. For instance, Amerie's "Touch" did well in R&B and pop markets and Mary Mary are big on contemporary christian charts. Plus there are CDs by Celine Dion, Ray Charles and Louis Armstrong that won't sell insane ammounts but those artists have large fanbases that will buy just because a new item was released. The Coral are fairly popular as well. It'd be interesting to know if Sony promoted these items differently (if at all) knowing they were defective. If that hurt sales then the true crime is against the artists who still have production costs to recoup.

WHAT???

[chord.wav]

They, for once, were doing the right thing preventing that music from infesting your favourite p2p network!!!

Who would buy these?

[affliction]

6. Bette Midler - Sings the Peggy Lee Songbook

Who in their right mind would subject themselves to such torture. And, what's more, someone paid for the privlege.

Re:Who would buy these?

[Harker]

Dude, you should have seen the CD Collection my mother had when sh passed away (2 copies of the Titanic soundtrack???). All three of us kids decided to give them away to the thrift store along with a lot of her clothing and other things that were good, but not usable by ourselves. ...and yes, I have done penance for it.

H.

Re:Who would buy these?

[l0b0]

The answer which comes to mind: This was done to make sure the rootkit was introduced with a low profile, to alpha-test it...

Whose IP are they protecting here?

[jimson]

Billy Holiday, Rosanne Cash, Louis Armstring, Frank Sinatra. Why are these CD's getting the rootkiit treatment? I'm drawing a blank here....

Re:Whose IP are they protecting here?

[old7]

Because they were just testing the water.

Re:Whose IP are they protecting here?

[Amouth]

and it is f*cking hot..... realllll hot

you know like bathing in H2SO4

Re:Whose IP are they protecting here?

[theodicey]

Ignore the noise, it all relates back to this one: The Bad Plus Suspicious Activity?

number 7: "Billy Holiday"?

[holden caufield]

This is on her own damn label and they can't get Lady Day's name right?

Unbelieveable. They could have at least looked at the CD cover.

Re:number 7: "Billy Holiday"?

[The Cydonian]

This incompetency extends itself to real-life packaging as well, apparently. Consider the curious disclosure at the bottom of the page that two CD's had copy-protection marked on their package, but didn't actually have it on disk.

Re:number 7: "Billy Holiday"?

[sanx]

The copy protection system obviously extended to the artist's name as well...

Sony. Where do you want to go today?

[rice_burners_suck]

Sony BMG today detailed a program that should allow customers who bought one of the 52 titles known to be tained with the company's deeply flawed anti-piracy software to exchange them for CDs of the same title, sans rootkit of course.

No no no! They got it all wrong. They should do what my friend's landlord did when he kept complaining that the dishwasher didn't work: They came, turned it on, and when it made noise, they said, "It works fine." And of course, it didn't: First, it smelled disgusting in there, like there was rotten food inside the machine. Second, just because it sprayed (dirty smelling) water doesn't mean it "works fine." Third, if you put a dish in there that was clean to begin with, it came out dirty. And I believe that such a dishwasher makes a perfect analogy for compact discs that contain defective software.

So what Sony should do is this: They should publicly offer customers who bought one of the flawed CDs to exchange them for identical ones! As if we're talking about workmanship in the production of the compact disc proper and not the contents. Hey, just act like you don't know a darn thing about technology when it comes to this type of thing! And when the customer complains that the replacement still contains the rootkit, just say, "It works fine."

Sony. Where do you want to go today? (Hell, they almost make Microsoft look good in comparison. Almost.)

Re:Sony. Where do you want to go today?

[gwoodrow]

Where have I heard that before?

(tommyboy)

Tommy: The point is, how do you know the Guarantee Fairy isn't a crazy glue sniffer? "Building model airplanes" says the little fairy, but we're not buying it. Next thing you know, there's money missing off the dresser and your daughter's knocked up, I seen it a hundred times.

Ted: But why do they put a guarantee on the box then?

Tommy: Because they know all they solda ya was a guaranteed piece of shit. That's all it is. Hey, if you want me to take a dump in a box and mark it guaranteed, I will. I got spare time. But for right now, for your sake, for your daughter's sake, ya might wanna think about buying a quality item from me.

(/tommyboy)

Re:Sony. Where do you want to go today?

[Anonymous Coward]

The CDs still remain defective.
The defect is not about a second session containing a data track with a ISO9660 filesystem containing a rootkit and autorun.inf - the defect is about the audio part being defective, which they also declare as "copy protection" but is nothing more than a defective TOC, intentional short defects on CRC data, bad 8/14 encoding and some other nonsense which all violate the Redbook specification.

Re:Sony. Where do you want to go today?

[Halfbaked Plan]

Gently take your friend aside and remind him that while it's a dishwasher, you still need to add SOAP to it, or it will just thrash around all the food matter on the dishes and eventually have so much grease and debris in it that, well, you described it pretty well for us already....

ISO's too?

[Anonymous Coward]

I had to have all the Bette Midler and Celine Dion albums so I downloaded them and now got their stupid R007k17. Are they going to post clean copies since my rights have been violated?!?!?!

Re:ISO's too?

[MightyMartian]

Son, if you're into Celine Dion and Bette Midler, your rights aren't the only things being violated.

I spent 5 hours trying to get rid of this Rootkit

[digitaldc]

... 2 weeks waiting for my replacement disc, and when I opened my "Suspicious Activity" CD again, I just didn't really feel like listening to it any more.

Ahoy!

[jim_v2000]

Sony is offering those who want to return the CDs the chance to download MP3 versions of the discs

Too late ya bastards, I already ripped me music off ye DRM'd cd. Yarrr!

Re:Ahoy!

[jim_v2000]

And on a serious note, does anyone find it comical that now they are offering MP3 downloads? Seems like Sony realized that it's a CHEAPER and more EFFICIENT way of distributing music. Too bad the music companies aren't realizing this sooner.

Re:Ahoy!

[game kid]

Why would they want to distribute music more cheaply, when the expensive archaic methods can give an excuse to crank up profit margins? They're not realizing crap, just saving the PR. Or as Barret would probably tell Sony, "You don't give a damn 'bout no one but yourself!"

Hmm...

[Now.Imperfect]

I don't really like that they are giving you mp3s. 90% of the reason I buy the actual disc is because i like to have it as a hard copy.

Yay Amazon
Nay Sony

Where's the root?

[TallMatthew]

Shouldn't it be called AdminKit?

Re:Where's the root?

[Ignominious]

Probably SYSTEMKit. But that wouldn't sound so menacing and upsetting, and the AV companies wouldn't do so well. Although it might deter Windows script kiddies and make them consider moving to a real OS, but then give up when they find nobody runs as root 24/7.

Seems to me they are afraid...

[gweihir]

And well they should be! In many countries what they did is criminal and should land the decision makers in prison. Both the computer sabotage and the code theft are an issue. Even if Sony can claim they trusted the vendor of the rootkit, then people there should go to prison and Sony would not look that much better.

Covers XCP, but what about MediaMax?

[SpammersAreScum]

The article seems to indicate the offers cover CDs with First4Internet's XCP crap, but that's it. There's apparently similar ugliness with CDs using Sunncomm's MediaMaz copy protection (see http://www.freedom-to-tinker.com/?p=925) which is not covered. I guess that one hasn't gotten enough mainstream media coverage yet...

Pacifying me with mp3's not good enough...

[gg3po]

...I need replacement that is CD quality or better, not to mention $$$ for any damages suffered by my computer and jailtime for the offending execs. Nothing less will suffice.

Re:Pacifying me with mp3's not good enough...

[Anonymous Coward]

Need? You must mean want. Execs? You must mean coders. Fanatic econo-fascist.

Pete Seeger???!

[rueger]

40. Pete Seeger The Essential Pete Seeger CK92835 827969283523
They applied DRM to a disc by Pete Seeger?
Man, I don't know where to begin with THAT one!

Re:Pete Seeger???!

[Anonymous Coward]

Even a blind man could see this is a total scam

Re:Pete Seeger???!

[ScrewMaster]

Yeah ... almost as bad as applying it to a disc of Woody Guthrie's music. Which they may have, for all I know.

Re:Merely a slap on the wrist, but the future is b

[masklinn]

seems like a ridiculous infringement on user rights.

You're a bit confused here. A Sony user does not have rights. A Sony user should feel that the heavens themselves allowed him to use Sony software and hardware, and be in eternal debt to Sony for it.

Re:Merely a slap on the wrist, but the future is b

[kc32]

I'm surprised none of the artists have sued Sony yet for killing their record sales.

Sony and Satan

[MightyMartian]

Well the Devil had a brand new plan,
"I don't want any ordinary DRM!"
So he called his boys at Sony Corp,
"I'll make this fast and I'll make it short."

"There's a Limey company, as evil as hell,
They've got a rootkit they're waiting to sell.
So grab some cash, make it quick,
There's a half million networks we just gotta fix."

Now Sony knew the Devil well,
Why these guys were already half way to Hell.
So off they went to England fair,
And bought themselves a rootkit there.

To protect themselves and their evil scheme,
They wrote a EULA that would make you scream.
"No problem," they said, "we can do as we please,
We're all scummy bastards, so what's some more sleaze?"

But not all were asleep when they played Van Zant,
And the racket grew so loud Sony just had to recant.
"We'll take back all those discs, we really were wrong,
Oh, and you Mac users, your turn's coming before long."

Re:Sony and Satan

[AlphaLop]

Now thats bloody clever... Well done! I had the devil went down to georgia music going through my head while reading it. Does this mean I owe some record company money?

Re:Sony and Satan

[sanx]

But the DRM's written by a Welsh company. Wales, land of leeks and close harmony singing. And don't forget the rarebits.

Re:Sony and Satan

[unitron]

But aren't the Welsh the real, original English? The people who were there before the Angles or the Saxons or the Romans or the Normans or the Franks or anybody else?

Speaking of the Franks, that's where the last name of everyone's favorite cartoon scientist comes from. I figure somebody doing one of those illuminated manuscripts accidentally dotted an "a".

Re:Sony and Satan

[Anonymous Coward]

-1 bullshit

The company's English, it's right near me.

RadioElectric

Who keeps changing your mind?

[bosewicht]

lmao Before

Most people, I think, don't even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?

After

We share the concerns of consumers regarding these discs, and we are instituting a program that will allow consumers to exchange any CD with XCP software for the same CD without copy protection. We also have asked our retail partners to remove all unsold CDs with XCP software from their store shelves and inventory. Please click here for exchange program details. We deeply regret any inconvenience this may cause our customers and we are committed to making this situation right. It is important to note that the issues regarding these discs exist only when they are played on computers, not on conventional, non-computer-based CD and/or DVD players.

BBC News Link

[AvatarofVirgo]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/-/1/hi/technology/444 8788.stm

Re:Merely a slap on the wrist, but the future is b

[terrymr]

The best part is that that sony will charge the recall costs against the artists royalties so sony won't be out a penny and the artists get ripped off.

People don't fall for this

[eadint]

/crazy rant
Never forgive never forget, boycot SONY until their bankrupt, don't gove Sony any money until thaey do the fillowing
1) Replace all of the CD's
2) Publicly apologize for abusing Americans rights on NBC, ABC, and CBS and admit that all DRM is wrong.
3) admit that Sony is a group of lying lechoris sleazbags that deserve to be spat on and scorned.
4) a SONY exec need to show up at my house, CLEAN it, and let me kick them a couple of times.
5) all Sony executives need to be imprisioned with manatory ass rapping by 400 pound black men. /Crazy rant.

It dosent matter what Sony does, in their eyes they did nothing wrong and they will just be craftier next time.

Ah, the irony

[stuffman64]

I just love the fact that when my friend put the Natasha Bedingfield CD to listen to it, I told him I wouldn't be suprised if his computer broke (or at least got mad at him) by putting that crappy excuse for music in there. Seems I was right- his attempt to remove the rootkit totally borked his XP to the point it no longer boots. Guess he should have read the article at the Register first.

I really wanted to buy the NW-A3000 MP3 player when it's released here (everyone and their mom has an iPod... literally). iPods are nice and all, but I'd like something a bit different. Now that I don't know if I can trust Sony, where am I to turn? That thing was so cool looking too.

Re:Ah, the irony

[Anonymous Coward]

Get a Cowon iAudio. They play ogg,flac,wma,mp3, etc. The fancier ones do video.

Re:Merely a slap on the wrist, but the future is b

[MightyMartian]

What's the point? Even if they moved to some other record company, you don't they're not going to try to pull the same stunt.

Lawmakers around the world have sent a message to Sony and its ilk. Your computer isn't yours any more. They're free to invade your machine, make it vulnerable or run in a faulty fashion, but that's just fine in the name of piracy.

spot on, George Orwell style.

[samjam]

Going forward, we will continue to identify new ways to meet demands for flexibility in how you and other consumers listen to music.

"meet" means "deny", the problem as Sony see it is that CD's are already too flexible!

Just as the minister for public safety gets to define where public safety ends, so will Sony meeting demands for flexibility define where that flexibility ends.

Sam

What about compensation for damages?

[size1one]

Sony is just trying to get people to agree to a settlement before they can be found guilty.

Getting your money back is not enough.
The bad press sony is feeling is not enough

I don't doubt that sony will try this again only they will dump money in so it isn't a half assed rootkit. They will make sure the EULA covers all actions and potential damages. A court ruling sets precedent and will deter future attempts. Accept the payoff and you're only taking a step closer to the confined world of DRM.

Re:What about compensation for damages?

[westyvw]

I agree. If I used windows, I would expect Sony to allow me to have a "qualified" computer specialist back up my important data, reinstall windows, and configure my computer to be in the same state it was in before their software damaged it. Also, they should be required to pay damages to the developers of LAME for violating the GPL. Anything less just isnt fair.

Sony Sucks

[sabre307]

Even without the root kit, Sony is being obnoxious with the DRM shit. I got a copy of Chevelle's new album and couldn't even rip it into MP3 without installing some damn proprietary Sony software, and then it would only rip into locked down WMA format. The CD was so screwed up that an older car CD player of mine wouldn't play it, Linux wouldn't recognize it, Windows kept trying to autorun it, but wouldn't recognize the audio side of it. Mac was the only one that would, for some reason, play it just fine. I finally got pissed off and downloaded the whole album via P2P. It was more file sharing than I've done in the last year. Congratulations Sony, now you're going to insent the legitimate people into sharing the files! To me, a CD I can't get into MP3 is useless and defective. I only listen to music on my car stereo in MP3 format, or on my computer in MP3 format, or on my Zen in MP3 format. The original CDs get stored away for safe keeping. I only have two words for Sony... BITE ME!!!

Re:Sony Sucks

[wintermute740]

"I only have two words for Sony... BITE ME!!!"

My two words were stronger... "FUCK OFF!!!" I didn't want to leave any doubt as to where I stood or anything.

Re:Sony Sucks

[BigDork1001]

I finally got pissed off and downloaded the whole album via P2P.

See, this should be legal. You own the CD so you should be able to go out and download the mp3's. Just like if I own a cassette I should be able to go out and download the mp3's. I already paid for the songs dammit!

Re:Sony Sucks

[woolio]

Hmm.. Are you admitting that you played their CD on a MAC without being under the control of their DRM software???

And your not posting as an AC?

Well, if they can convince a judge that your use of a Mac and/or P2P was a method to evade their copy-protection mechanism, then they most certainly WILL BITE YOU and you will find yourself spending many years answering to someone named "Bruno"

Re:Sony Sucks

[internewt]

Even without the root kit, Sony is being obnoxious with the DRM shit. I got a copy of Chevelle's new album and couldn't even rip it into MP3 without installing some damn proprietary Sony software, and then it would only rip into locked down WMA format. The CD was so screwed up that an older car CD player of mine wouldn't play it, Linux wouldn't recognize it, Windows kept trying to autorun it, but wouldn't recognize the audio side of it.

The way this DRM works is that they have invalid track layout info. PCs respect this info, and so don't see the audio session, but CD players ignore this info, they just play the first session. Your car's stereo obviously works like a CDROM.

This DRM can be avoided with Plextor CD drives. If you use their plextools software you can put the drive into single session mode, and it will only see the first session: the music. It can them be ripped or copied no probs (so you end up with the product you originally wanted and paid for).

Re:Sony Sucks

[sabre307]

Thanks for the tip, I'll look into that.

Re:Merely a slap on the wrist, but the future is b

[thogard]

Is it a slap on the writs? I've banned Sony/BMG CDs from work. Its a security threat and that can get you removed from the job so don't even dare to bring in a Sony or BMG cd until the rules get changed.
If an artist is stupid enough to sign with these idiots or stay signed, they get what they deserve.

MP3 is probably for the artists

[Anonymous Coward]

Does anyone else think that releasing the MP3's is sort of an odd move? Does this qualify as a positive move towards making amends with their customers?

The fans that were dedicated enough to go out and buy their albums were the ones that were screwed over. So I think the mp3 move is for the artists that are pissed off because their names were attached to this software which directly effected their most dedicated base.

With 20/20 hindsight...

[BluBrick]

Dude! You bought "Suspicious Activity?" by "The Bad Plus", and got pwn3d.
You can't say they didn't warn you.

It's a little bit like Wacko Jacko's early albums, "Thriller", "Bad", and "Dangerous". Perhaps he was trying to tell us something?

number 18: "Dextor Gordon"

[Anonymous Coward]

who the hell runs this shop, anyway?

"billy" and "dextor." sheesh.

MP3 replacements?

[imidan]

I'm curious about one aspect of having .mp3 replacements of the defective CDs that you've purchased. TFA says you have to physically return the CD to Sony in order to get access to a set of .mp3 files for that disc. So what becomes of your license? I mean, we've been making a big deal for days now about how your .mp3 files are only legal if you've got the original disc, as well. So, what, are they going to send you some kind of certificate that says you have a right to own these .mp3s? Or how could you possibly prove that your files were legal?

There's muttering here about digital watermarks or somesuch to uniquely identify each set of .mp3s with a particular customer. But then who has the proof that your files are yours? Sony? I'd feel a lot more comfortable with a new, DRM-less CD that I could rip to my computer, so I'd have proof that I own the CD.

On another note, the digital watermark doesn't seem like it would be effective. It wouldn't take a rocket scientist to send in a real copy of the CD and download the .mp3s using bogus contact information. You UPS a disc to Sony with completely unverifiable and incorrect return information, they email your brand-new Hotmail account with the .mp3 download URL, you get the files on a public terminal, walk away, and never look back. You can share these .mp3s with anyone you want to, and Sony will never be able to identify you as the originator. Though all of that seems like more trouble than it's worth, since you could accomplish the same thing by getting a DRM-less copy of the CD, ripping it, and distributing it.

Re:MP3 replacements?

[Ignominious]

I don't think they went so far as to say that the replacement disc would be DRM-less or rippable, just that it didn't have a rootkit.

Amazon and Sony

[HangingChad]

It sure would've been interesting to sit in on those discussions. I wonder if they were cordial or Amazon dropped hints about chunking their product line?

As bad as this incident has been the response and comments of the Sony-BMG execs just added fuel to the fire. Their response was arrogant and clueless, rivaled only by the Bush administration for sheer gall and contempt of the average person.

If Sony is reflective of the attitude of big business toward their customers, then this rootkit business is only the warm up act. The captain has turned on the fasten seat belt sign, please return to your seats and hang on.

Demographics

[Durzel]

Oddly enough, Sony is offering those who want to return the CDs the chance to download MP3 versions of the discs, but only after Sony has received the returned discs.

They probably want to determine what percentage of the people who were sufficiently outraged by XCP to go to the trouble of sending back the CD are interested in a MP3 version instead (and therefore the sort of people who would've probably tried circumventing said copy-protection in the first place) vs those who actually had genuine technical issues with it.

Good market research for them really.

Re:Demographics

[elpapacito]

Yeah, also notice that by giving the mp3 instead of a replacement disc they

* Save on cd manufacturing, shipping cost
* Save on retailer costs reinbursment (you think retailer would help for free ? In your dreams maybe)
* Claim the evil pirates are making more mp3s, maybe.

It's worth noticing that when a technology can save any company money it becomes the hot thing, even if it radiates you into horrendous death. BUT when the technology empowers and lessens the dependecy of the consumer then it's the spawn of satan , a kid corruptor and a terrorist tool.

Don't gimme a fucking break just get away from my bawls.

F4i takes protection into new areas with XCP

[Anonymous Coward]

Here's some favorable press that First4Internet received a couple of years ago.

http://www.xcp-aurora.com/press_article.aspx?art=x cp_art8

Re:F4i takes protection into new areas with XCP

[plover]

Heh. Did you read this portentious quote in it?

UK-based company First 4 Internet (F4i) is a new entrant into the field - or rather, minefield of CD 'copy protection'

*boom*

Re:Download mp3s of the albums - Watermarking Test

[BrokenHalo]

And how will we know Sony isn't trying something *ELSE* with their dissatisfied customers as guinea pigs?

Indeed. I doubt if Sony has accepted the world's judgement as a lesson; it's just a matter of time before they try something else.

What I would do if I had (very hypothetically) bought one of these CDs would be to rip the tracks to a fresh CD via cdparanoia/cdrecord, leaving the rootkit behind, then just throw away the original. Who cares if it's illegal? If you only have the one copy, and you have a receipt for payment for it, you might justifiably feel that you are operating within the spirit of the law, even if not the letter.

Re:Merely a slap on the wrist, but the future is b

[neillewis]

If I was one of the artists caught up in this, I'd be suing for alleged non-performance and wilful negligence. Their contracts might prevent them from suing for having their names associated with appalling, badly written, copyright infringing or duplicitous 'protection' software, but they'd have a good case if their sales fall.

And heads should roll

[fyoder]

IMHO, it would be in Sony's best interest to offer something beyond just replacing the defective rootkit'd product...

Yes, and some heads should roll very publicly as well. Right now it looks like they are reacting to getting caught and doing the bare minimum in response. Those at the top should at least pretend to be appalled, axe those responsible, and promise that we will never again see anything so heinous from Sony BMG.

The Next Step - Justice

[ONOIML8]

If there were any justice in the world, the next step would be an artists revolt.

If I were one of the artists involved my lawyer would argue something along these lines: Obviously all this negative press will result in fewer of my art being sold. Some number of my fans (regular customers) will no longer trust my work because of this and refrain from future purchases. This is, of course, the fault of Sony. Therefore Sony should pay me the difference. In addition, Sony will immediately consider any contract with me to be null and void because I can no longer count on them to represent me and my work in a respectful manner.

But I'm betting that the artists themselves don't give a wet slap about this either way.

Re:The Next Step - Justice

[Baricom]

But I'm betting that the artists themselves don't give a wet slap about this either way.

The leader of the band Switchfoot, a fairly well-known Christian rock band, posted instructions on bypassing copy protection on their Nothing is Sound CD. The post was on Sony's own forums, exactly two months ago today and before anybody realized XCP contained a rootkit. Naturally, the thread was deleted a couple of days later. However, the band is continuing to apologize for the problems on the forums.

I partly agree, though - it would be incredibly cool to see Switchfoot find a way out of their Sony BMG contract.

Re:The Next Step - Justice

[Ignominious]

I'm sure the artists do care - I've been the guitar tech for a band recently signed to Sony in the UK and one of them never buys CDs, just downloads via P2P and another of them asked me if I knew how to circumvent iTunes/iPod limitations; they'd be against DRM and copy protection if they actually had any influence.

The sad fact is that for most new artists to have a decent chance of earning a living, they have to sell their soul and waive all their normal rights to one of the 5 major label conglomerates. Then you're stuck with at least a 6 album deal until you get the chance to leave the label.

(e.g. It says in the sleeve of Radiohead's OK Computer: "lyrics reprinted by kind permission, even though we wrote them". If they don't have the right to print their own lyrics, I'm sure the band have nothing to do with copy protection decisions).

Re:The Next Step - Justice

[ONOIML8]

Maybe they sould their souls but they don't have to sell out. I remember some joke from the grunge era in which a band refused to play the accoustic version of the electric version of a song they refused to even write in the first place. All joking aside, it can be like that. If they don't want their work associated with something as crappy as this then all they have to do is put their collective feet down and refuse. They might lose their jobs but they won't go to prison and they would send a strong message that would be heard as loud as their music would have.

Pardons, it's dot US not dot COM

[saskboy]

http://www.boycottsony.us/ is the correct site. Once again I wish I could modify previous posts, but then trolls would have a field day.

buy each of mine back, at $20 bux each

[digitallysick]

Maybe if the recording industry had to buy overpriced 1 hit wonder cds back from consumers for 20 bux a each, maybe they would think twice about ripping off the public

sony sent this

[Anonymous Coward]

Sony this in response to my letter to them:
----------
Thank you for contacting Sony Online Support.

We sincerely regret that you are not completely satisfied. We manufacture our Sony BMG Entertainment products using content protection designed to prevent unlimited copying and unauthorized redistribution of the music on the disc. Customer input and response, such as yours, is invaluable in the continued development of our products. We want you to know that we appreciate your heartfelt feedback and comments.

Thank You,

Your Sony Email Response Team
CC2S
Mike

This message and any attachments are solely for the use of intended recipients. They may contain privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you received this email in error, and that any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this email and any attachment is strictly prohibited. If you receive this email in error please contact the sender and delete the message and any attachments associated therewith from your computer. Your cooperation in this matter is appreciated.
------------

Re:Merely a slap on the wrist, but the future is b

[HighBit]

if you're allowing people to autorun CDs as root at work, you're the security risk

Not quite so nice, unless...

[gangofvirtue]

Nice of Amazon to do this

Not quite so nice: Amazon are in a much stronger position vis-a-vis content providers when they're selling physical product than when they're distributing downloads, so until they become a major digital distributor it's in their interests to protect the reputation of physical products, especially products that they themselves have sold....

but in a short-sighted attempt to keep their sales up and/or deny the overall problem, Amazon won't tell you if you're ordering a 'regular' crippled CD, and in my experience they won't accept that a crippled CD is refundable. That's why I don't buy CDs from Amazon anymore ... whereas I can get a refund from certain other vendors if it turns out that I've been sent a crippled CD.

(And yes, they are also thinking about liability. Which does matter.)

It'd be great if Amazon and other big vendors refused to carry discs with

... any kind of DRM. And they're strong enough to do it, and for all the above reasons it should make sense to them to do it. And that really would be nice for everybody.

Re:Not quite so nice, unless...

[Anonymous Coward]

All the DRM protected CDs on Amazon have "Copy Protected CD" or some other note on it. Put "Copy Protected" into their Popular Music search and you'll get a list of all the DRM'ed CDs. They're not all Sony XCP.

That's what you get...

[Arimatheus]

...for buying Bette Midler CDs.

Re:That's what you get...

[GnarlyNome]

Wouldn't a rot kit on a Bette Midler CD be redundent?

Break up the cartel

[Anonymous Coward]

Anyone else think that we should start treating Sony and the rest of the RIAA companies more like an organised crime syndicate?

Re:Merely a slap on the wrist, but the future is b

[thogard]

Autorun is off but you can't count it it staying that way so banning Sony/BMG audio CD's is just an extra precaution.

A little OT, but...

[interactive_civilian]

stuffman64 said:

I really wanted to buy the NW-A3000 MP3 player when it's released here (everyone and their mom has an iPod... literally). iPods are nice and all, but I'd like something a bit different. Now that I don't know if I can trust Sony, where am I to turn? That thing was so cool looking too.

So, you mean that you don't know what to do because you were mainly basing your MP3(etc.) player purchase on what everyone else is using?

No offense, but here is an idea: how about you go out and try some of the MP3 players and just choose the one you like or you think works best for you, rather than choosing one because everyone is (or is not, in your case) using it? I understand the desire to feel like a non-conformist, but don't let conformity or non-conformity get in the way of function. If an iPod works best for you, then don't worry about who else has one. If an iPod doesn't work best for you, then get whatever else you want, as long as you are willing to support the company that produces it.

I will grant you that the Sony player does indeed look pretty cool, but being Sony, one has to wonder how well the software is designed and how easy it is to use over all. Of course, being Sony, I (like you) will never buy one after all of this crap they are pulling.

Disclaimer: I am a proud iPod owner, and I recommend it to a LOT of people, but not because it is "cool". I recommend it because it is REALLY easy and comfortable to use. However, if you do get one, the first thing to do is get rid of the Apple Ear Buds and plug in some real headphones. I personally use a set of Technics RP-DJ1200s. :D

Re:A little OT, but...

[stuffman64]

I guess what I said came off as sounding like all I cared about was being different. The iPod is a fantastic device, and I even used one as my sole source of music for a few months when my friend was out of the country. In terms of user experience, iPods are without a doubt in a league of their own. My biggest concern is how iPods are slowly moving away from being simple music devices and becoming a sort of all-in-one unit. This may seem like like a good thing in our got-to-have-it society, but really, are you going to watch a whole movie on an iPod video or wow your friends with a photo on your iPod nano? The iPod shuffle is the only "simple" device left in their line, but it's so simple that it's severely compromised (come on, you can't even really pick a particular track to listen to!). Getting an older iPod is an option, but I really worry about how well they hold up, what with scratches and crappy batteries and all.

I would never base a purchasing decision solely on whether just wanting to be different, and I never, ever make a purchase without being sure it's the best solution for my needs (well, for electronics, that is). The reason the Sony player was so appealing, is besides its awesome looks, it offers up a clean, simple user interface without resorting to any fancy gimmicks like color or the ability to show off a picture of your pet armadillo on a 1" screen. This is what appeals to me most, and the fact that it's so different only adds icing to the cake. One concern is whether or not I'd be required to use the Sony software to load music- not only do I now have no trust in them, I'm pretty sure it won't run under Linux and I don't yet know if it works under OS X.

And about those earbuds- when I had the loaner iPod, I tried using them for a day on campus and was just about ready to rip my ears off (I guess I could have just stopped listening to music). My ears have been spoiled for the last few years with either my Shure E2c earbuds (*highly* recommended, but mine are pretty beat up after 2.5 years of hard daily use, and I may retire them for some E3cs this Christmas) or my Grado SR-250s (they're open-air and need a lot of juice, but in a quiet room with a headphone amp, you'd swear the music was right there in front of you. The only downside is that even decently encoded MP3s sound awful as they tend to discard or distort the higher frequencies). Once your ears become accustomed to high-quality headphones, you can never go back.

Ain't gonna happen.

[gangofvirtue]

it would be in Sony's best interest to offer something beyond just replacing the defective rootkit'd product...

And thereby admit liability in class-action lawsuits which have yet to even start?

Let's run that up the corporate flagpole.

Oh.

Never mind.

Arguably the greatest rock guitarists of all time

[Darius Jedburgh]

Oh puh-lease! If I had a penny for every guitarist that people say is the best in the world I'd be richer than Bill Gates.

I think I'll go and buy myself a chocolate with the first dollar I'd earn from this list.

And is your favourite at the top?
No.
Top 10?
No.
Top 20?
No.
Must be in the top 50 right?
No.
OK, somewhere in the top 100?
No, again.

Oh well, who cares what Rolling Stone says, eh?

Re:Arguably the greatest rock guitarists of all ti

[nathanh]

Oh well, who cares what Rolling Stone says, eh?

I don't. I tend to listen to the music rather than waste my time reading glossy magazines that tell me what I should be listening to.

Or maybe a Time Warner CD?

[Futurepower(R)]

Can I buy that song on a Sony CD?

Criminal evidence...

[Nick Driver]

Since what happened is considered a computer crime in many jurisdictions, then couldn't their attempt to recover (and most likely destroy) the discs also constitute an act of tampering with evidence?

Re:Arguably the greatest rock guitarists of all ti

[Darius Jedburgh]

I tend to listen to the music rather than waste my time reading glossy magazines that tell me what I should be listening to.

Actually I won't disagree with you there. I made the mistake only last week of buying, for the first time in my life (I think), an album because the reviews said it was good (LCD Soundsystem if you must know, maybe I can spare you some suffering). I sold it the next day and used it to finance the buying of a bunch of CDs by mediocre musicians because despite the fact that they ain't no virtuosos on their instruments I love what they play anyway.

I knew a french word once..

[Jondo]

sans rootkit of course

Why do slashdot editors not realize how cliche it sounds to use the French "sans" instead of "without". At the very least they could switch to german for a while and say "ohne".

Ouch...

[SilverJets]

38. Our Lady Peace Healthy In Paranoid Times

Ok, that hurt. Didn't buy the CD, now I never will...no matter what SONY or BMG says.

Sorry SONY, you may claim ignorance of not knowing what SONY/BMG was doing but too bad for you. I will NEVER buy another product from SONY or a SONY subsidiary ever again.

Not Again ?

[Anonymous Coward]

If you did'nt ask for that email, and it still got to you, then it's (shudder!) (s) (p) (a) (mmmmmmmmm)

I wonder if SpamAssassin will block it ?

Hm. Any chance of Sony being blacklisted on... spam blacklists, of course ?

Interesting.

Re:Seems to me they are afraid.. -No thei're not !

[Anonymous Coward]

It's so funny : when a "customer (read : victim/noob/you name it) makes a mistake (s)he's getting the full brunt of it, amd there's no way to evade it : a customer is just a single entity, and he's beaten (financially) into a pulp

However, when "sony" makes a "mistake" you can shoot all you like, and all you will hit is an employed entity(read : scape-goat/poor sod/dumb*ss), while the very persons that made the decisions will keep out of harms way either by hiding behind of all those coorporate identities, or behind a golden handshake (instead of a stiff jail-time/personal financial bleeding, like anyone opposing 'their' interlectual properties (read : properties of the artists, which have been (effectivily) stolen from them))

Yes, I like the 'equality' the justice-system gives me, especially the protection it gives to non-beings like coorporations (as if they where persons), only being able to give them (in comparision) *very* minor slap-on-the-wrists (more commonly regarded as 'the price of doing buisiness'), while effectivily KILLING me/us (as a *real* persons) by expecting us to pay 'minor' damages to those non-beings.

There are currently *THOUSANDS* of victims of that non-being sony that now have to pay hard cash to get rid of this sony-provided trojan-horse. But time will bear me out, the "sony" beast will survive.

But the good news is that

[gangofvirtue]

the same idiots aim to block your porn.

From their stash of press fodder, July 2005:

Mathew Gilliat-Smith, F4i managing director, says [about his rootkit]:

"We have developed an effective solution that has earned us credibility with the major labels."

F4i also offers image composition analysis technology, which aims to filter illicit images such as pornography and offensive content on email, web sites, internet chat rooms and mobile phones

So that's what they've been working on. No wonder they've ... lost focus.

Re:But the good news is that

[Anonymous Coward]

Offensive content blocking, block all images titled hello.jpg, that shoul'd do it.

Why bother with MP3s?

[Yort]

From the page on how to return the CDs:

Consumers who choose to receive MP3 files in addition to replacement CD(s)

Why the heck would I bother to download their "MP3s" -- especially after the fiasco with the CDs -- when I'm supposedly going to get an unencumbered CD in the mail in a few weeks and I can rip it into whatever the heck format I want?

Customers

[simpl3x]

You installed a rootkit on a customer who bought Neil F'ing Diamond! Get a grip on your demographics! WTF!

Yes, I know that ND has sold lots-o-albums...

DRM on DVD as well?

[Anonymous Coward]

I just rented the DVD "Stealth" from Blockbuster (Quebec, Canada), when I putit on my PC, I see 2 files : dvd-rom.exe and go.exe + autorun.inf starting dvd-rom.exe. I took a look at the dvd, there's a Sony logo on it... is it some DRM stuff or even a rootkit?

i know why sony did this...

[mikeormike]

sony did this so that their cd sales would fall, and they'll be able to claim that p2p file sharing is the cause of their weakened cd sales, and that's why they need drm.

Re:Arguably the greatest rock guitarists of all ti

[AussieVamp2]

Greatest is hard, but Satriani and Vai are still good.

Luckily, no Clapton, all the old stuff doesn't have this problem, so you can play your Edge of Darkness soundtrack in amidst your golf outings to Scotland whenever you want.

Show me the money!

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm willing to bet the exchange entails signing off on your rights to sue for damages. Imagine a half million user class action lawsuit after the whole IMMR fiasco?

SONY stock is just recovering from it's last beating, I know because bought in at $39 a share. This latest headache for SONY is deserved though, unlike the IMMR suit, whose patent didn't seem all that non-obvious to me.

I'm still stocking up on shares though, because SONY will be rewarded for its CELL effort, even though I feel on some level that they shouldn't be rewarded while trying to justify such self-interested malice towards the customers that support them.

Remember the formula, kids!

[Chris Brewer]

If a new car built by my company leaves Chicago traveling west at 60 miles per hour, and the rear differential locks up, and the car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside, does my company initiate a recall?

You take the population of vehicles in the field (A) and multiply it by the probable rate of failure (B), then multiply the result by the average cost of an out-of-court settlement (C).

A times B times C equals X. This is what it will cost if we don't initiate a recall.

If X is greater than the cost of a recall, we recall the cars and no one gets hurt.

If X is less than the cost of a recall, then we don't recall.

Fire Howard Stringer

[sj88]

It was a bad idea to hire a life-long media executive to be in charge of the whole company.

iPods suck

[Shihar]

I am an irritated iPod Nano owner. I highly suggest NOT getting an iPod as you are getting a needlessly cripple MP3 player. That goes double and triple if you want to actually obtain music legally. There are two very large problems with my iPod Nano.

First, the screen is a piece of shit. After a week it is scratched to hell. No, I didn't get the defective kind of Nano. The screen just sucks on all Nanos. Your nano will be scratched to hell well within a week if you keep it in your pocket. Whatever engineer decided to make the screens out the material that they did should be dragged out into a field and shot. If you build something as small as a nano, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that people are going to want to put it in their pocket. Do this with your nano and you will get your screen scratched to hell within a week. Now, you CAN go buy a cover, but that seems pretty fucking stupid if you ask me. If the Nano needed a screen, it should have come with one.

Second, buying an iPod locks you out of all of the all you can eat music services. I don't know about you, but I personally don't have a favorite artist whose crap I must buy and keep for all of eternity. $15 a month to load of my MP3 player with all the music I want is a frigging steal in my book. Unfortunately, Apple doesn't want to support WMA and it doesn't want to let others use AAC. The net result? If you want a pay MP3 provider, you are stuck with iTunes and the few music services that deal in MP3s.

I got my iPod Nano as a gift. If I could have chosen, I would have gotten an MP3 player compatible with either Napster or Rhapsody's all you can eat services. Being trendy and cool really doesn't make up for the fact that I can't download a 100 songs to just randomly brows through them unless I feel like handing over $100 to iTunes... and well, fuck that.

Yeah yeah, I know I am getting a flamebait mod. My Karma is sky high though, you really can't hurt it.

Re:iPods suck

[Bastian]

I hope nobody mods you flamebait, because to a large degree, what you say is true. But I would mod you "naive consumer" if I had the option. You could have avoided a lot of frustration and anger if you had just followed two very simple rules of buying $200 pieces of hardware:

1. Wait for others to buy it and see whether or not it sucks rather than gambling your own money. (This is doubly true for first-gen Apple products. No, make that triply true; their hardware design folks have bought way too heavily into the idea that function follows form since Steve came back.)
2. Figure out what the hell you're buying before you buy it. It isn't too hard to figure out whether or not an iPod Nano supports WMA before you lay down the cash for it.

(disclaimer: I'm a Mac user and a happy 3G iPod owner.)

Re:iPods suck

[Anonymous Coward]

You should have read his post more carefully. He is not a stupid consumer. He got it as a gift.

I'll chime in totally off topic and mention that I agree. I was a stupid consumer and did not get it as a gift. I (foolishly) bought my iPod nano. That worthless screen should have gotten people fired, starting from the engineer that decided to make it out of that material, all the way to the QA people that approved it. It blows my mind that such an obviously poor design was allowed to go through all the way to production

As for the WMA, well, I just pirate my music so it doesn't really matter. I won't pay iTunes out the ass to simply try out music. I might have considered Napster to Go or an iTunes equivalent if there was one (which there isn't, iTunes sucks), but pirating is almost as easy. If the MP3 players and distributors can't get their shit together, I am not going to wait around for them. Pirating gives more and better quality music. The fact that it costs free is only a bonus.

What can I say, I am a bad person, but I guess that is why I am an AC.

Re:iPods suck

[Bastian]

You should have read his post more carefully. He is not a stupid consumer. He got it as a gift.

oop. sorry.

Too Little Too Late

[Khyber]

Sorry, Sony, but your campaign of stupidity has convinced me that no matter what your intentions are, you're too god-damned stupid to think of the repercussions of your practices. So, instead of capitulating and returning your "software," I'm going to microwave it first, then send it back, as since it's in my possession, it's mine to do with as I please. So I'm nuking these CDs, then I'm sending them back, and not only asking for a full refund, but a FREE copy of the music, and if you refuse, there are laws in these United States that auto-negate your EULA bullshit laws. Note the "Where void by law" clause that many states have included, yet you forget to mention in your EULA. Ooops, big mistake on your part, idiots.

In other words, all your assets are belong to us. Let those few states with those laws sue your ass in court. we've got "States Rights" and we'll use them to bnankrupt your ass in every country you sell your products in. Boo-ya, BITCH.

Re:What about a felony conviction?

[Sithech]

Compensation is not enough.

They violated the Spyware act in California and should be prosecuted for that by the Attorney General once the AG office has done the research on the complaints that have been filed with them. Italy has already filed criminal charges there. None of it seems to have hurt Sony's stock price though.

You have it so right...

[Khyber]

yet one thing should be done. Those carrying sony's DRMed discs should KEEP SELLING THEM TO MAKE SONY'S BULLSHIT MORE EXPOSED, PLUS THE F4I'S ROOTKIT CRAP AS WELL! This way, Sony's little fuckup can't go so unchallenged by the public. The more people that get infected/compromised, while it may be ad for them, will possibly be a good step in the DMCA side of things. Maybe it'll lead to more lax copyright law, as well.

DOn't Do it!

[gmby]

How much do you want'a bet that if you take part in this "buy back" that you'll not be invited to the "Class Action" Party...

Just wait... someones gonna par-te' and Sony's gonn foot the bill.

Wait, stop the presses!!

[ZachPruckowski]

They said they'd take off the rootkit. Does that mean the DRM thing is still there? Because if it is, you so don't want the CDs. I mean, to me that's almost worse, since it phones home, and uses up your processor time, and also hurts your hard drive, right? Is that confirmed gone too?

Close call

[GunFodder]

Yow! I actually have one of the tainted albums! Good thing I basically stole it with P2P software, or else I might have a serious problem with my computer.

Sony at fault.

[Penguinoflight]

When the rooted computer posts the mp3 to a p2p network they can sue themselves. If Sony is not willing to protect their customers, they are neither allowed nor capable of protecting themselves. Why would you suggest such a dumb solution? Sony will obviously follow it, and even more dumb users will be hurt by it.

Re:Sony at fault.

[dtfinch]

How many people hack into users' systems to steal MP3's?

The Sony corporate culture has become corrupt.

[Futurepower(R)]

I agree. I would never buy anything from Sony, because I think the Sony corporate culture has become corrupt. Note that there have been no apologies from Sony for infecting more than 500,000 computers.

We have had major problems with reliability of Sony laptops. Our experience with Toshiba laptops has been much better.

Bzzt! Wrong...

[benjamindees]

So if it's all audio, there's no possibility of malicious software since there's no software.

You're assuming computers nowadays all include analog output from their CD drives.

Most don't. Dells, for instance, don't include the cable in order to save costs.

Unless you have that analog connection, and unless your CD player software is setup to use it, the audio data is being decoded. Exploiting a flaw in this decoding is as simple as exploiting any other software bug.

Re:Bzzt! Wrong...

[Ciaran_H]

Exploiting a flaw in this decoding is as simple as exploiting any other software bug.

Perhaps - except that according to the Wikipedia entry on the Red Book standard, it's stored in PCM format, which to my knowledge can be passed straight to the soundcard with no further processing. The only decoding in the procedure is done by the CD drive and the soundcard, and while exploiting a flaw in either of those might not be difficult, it would also be highly dependent on the chipset used, and in the end would probably both not be able to do much in the grand scheme of things, *and* would probably cause other CD drives/soundcards to barf.