Apple Enters Media Center Domain

An anonymous reader writes "CNN has a story up describing Apple's new media center concept. The software takes on a classic Apple approach: simplicity. 'The program, called Front Row, lets you listen to music, watch videos, play DVDs and display photos from a distance with a few clicks of a lighter-sized, six-button remote control.'" More details available from ThinkSecret.

Comments

Or....

[daeley]

This isn't precisely a secret, however, and hasn't been for the months since it was introduced. :)

http://www.apple.com/imac/frontrow.html

Re:Or....

[Fahrvergnuugen]

The news is in the second link... the article on thinksecrets.com

Basically the news is that Apple will be letting users stream purchased content from .mac iDisk drives - including full length movies.

I still can't decide if this is a good idea or not... this model has its advantages, but it most certainly has its disadvantages as well.

Re:Or....

[John Harrison]

I've been proclaiming for weeks that the big announcement the day the iPod with video came out was not the iPod but was that Apple is going to start doing media center stuff. Nobody listened to me. It surprises me how long it has taken people figure this out. Watch a new mac mini come out with Front Row on it that can keep up on the frame rates for HDTV output. People would love something like that in their media centers.

Re:Or....

[Golias]

The hype is in the second link... the rumor on thinksecrets.com

Basically the speculation is that Apple might be letting users stream purchased content from .mac iDisk drives - including full length movies.

Fixed. :)

Re:Or....

[timeOday]

Frontrow might be a nice program, but a software package alone is clearly not enough. If these applications (music, pictures, movies) make it into the livingroom, it won't be on an iMac, but integrated with the TV and stereo. The question is, what content distribution network, and what end-user hardware, will make an application like frontrow successful?

Re:Or....

[Anonymous Coward]

This isn't precisely a secret, however, and hasn't been for the months since it was introduced.

Woz launched a start up with a similar idea decades ago.

Re:Or....

[TinyManCan]

You speak the truth here. As long as the Mini can drive an HD set @ 1080i through a DVI _AND_ component out, I will be happy. Unfortunately I got bit by the HD bug a bit early and bought a mitsubishi HD set before DVI was commonplace. I only have component inputs for HD. Well, and FireWire, but I am not too sure how well that would work for this use.

If Apple gets a mini out with those specs, I'll be first in line. I've bought several of today's minis, and would not bother buying one to use as a HTPC if it has the right horsepower and connectivity.

Re:Or....

[he-sk]

Let's see, my iBook is my stereo (hooked to the receiver and i don't have a cd deck or anything else) and i don't own a tv.

So front row is all i need for my living room media center thing. And a bigger screen. Those apple cinema screens look nice. :)

Re:Or....

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, the reason nobody listened to you was that we'd all figured it out already within five seconds of the announcement. Your enthusiasm is noted, however.

Re:Or....

[Jozer99]

Thats because everybody else got sick of saying it 6 months before that. Sorry to be rude, but look at the archvives of thinksecret. Every 5th story is something about how Apple is going to kill MCE, or merge with some other media company (TiVo, XM, Sirus, ect...)

Re:Or....

[Gulthek]

I'd worry more about the upcoming requirement of a digitally "secure" connection (HMDI or secure DVI) to access full HDTV quality content. HDTV content sent over an "unsecure" connection (e.g. component video cables) will be downscaled.

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/article/ds22406.html

Re:Or....

[Tony Hoyle]

My standard DVD player already does Music, Pictures & Movies.

OTOH A mac Mini with a decent sized fast hard drive, HDMI, and the right shape for a living room ('lunchbox' doesn't really fit in) sounds cool... provided it has Tivo functionality of course.

Re:Or....

[Anonymous Coward]

You really mean it. Poor soul. Apple-hating has hit you pretty hard. Had some traumatic experiences with your uncle's erect genital, too, I presume.

Re:Or....

[carguy84]

If it can't play IFO or at the very least VOB files, it's all but useless.

Looks *pretty* tho =/

Re:Or....

[thatguywhoiam]

I've been proclaiming for weeks that the big announcement the day the iPod with video came out was not the iPod but was that Apple is going to start doing media center stuff. Nobody listened to me.

Ditto. I made a comment here about what (I thought must surely be) raised eyebrows at Microsoft, vis a vis the Front Row as possible competiton for the Xbox360 media center effort... and got modded thru the floor. It's gonna be big though, Apple knows what they are doing in this area.

Re:Or....

[JazzCrazed]

Hopefully Intel will give the Mini a real good boost, then - or some magic has to be done with the tuner, because the current solution for an Apple-based PVR timeshifting 1080i HDTV requires no less than a dual G5 (click requirements on right side).

I wouldn't even dream of using one of today's Minis as an HDTV PVR. I got so frustrated with mine that I sold it.

Not to mention that unless the Mini does real-time compression it'd probably run out of disk space real fast with its 2.5" drives that currently max out at 100GB - at least, for anybody who records a lot (at 8GB/hr. for uncompressed - that is MPEG-2 - 1080i, that's at most 12 hours of recording time before something needs to be compressed, and MPEG-4 compression on today's Mac Minis is, IMHO, HORRENDOUS - it took mine 16 hours to compress MPEG-2 to H.264 MPEG-4 for a 2 hour movie - and that was at DVD res, not 1080i).

But who knows... Maybe Intel will make this bottom-rung Mac more powerful than some of the top PowerMacs out now. And I'm speculating like the rest anyway, so I hope you had your salt shakers with you while you read this comment. ;)

Re:Or....

[Captain Splendid]

I still can't decide if this is a good idea or not

It's not. Having to switch from Front Row to iTunes to do any purchasing is going to be a deal breaker for a lot of people IMO. If the whole thing could be done while sitting back and holding a sleek remote, they'd have a winner, but making the user actually have to physically move around and switch back and forth between interfaces, just to perform what could be a seamless process, is stupid.

Re:Or....

[AddressException]

The hype is in the second link... the rumor on thinksecret.com

Fixed^2

Re:Or....

[hunterx11]

While this specific speculation is rumor, it is pretty obvious from the direction that Apple has been going for years that they are going to do something like this eventually--the question is merely when.

Re:Or....

[Anonymous Coward]

I've been proclaiming for weeks that the big announcement the day the iPod with video came out was not the iPod but was that Apple is going to start doing media center stuff.

Actually, I thought it was when they sold me a computer with a bigger screen than my TV. Or it was when they launched AirPort Express. Or when they were hyping HD in QuickTime 7. Or when they started the iTunes Music Store. Or when they started selling iPods. Or when they became the most popular movie trailer site on the web. Or...

It's been "obvious" in one way or another for a long time. The question is always "when" or "how", never "if".

Re:Or....

[Golias]

Hopefully Intel will give the Mini a real good boost, then - or some magic has to be done with the tuner, because the current solution for an Apple-based PVR timeshifting 1080i HDTV requires no less than a dual G5 (click requirements on right side).

I wouldn't even dream of using one of today's Minis as an HDTV PVR. I got so frustrated with mine that I sold it.

You must not have used enough RAM.

In spite of what the EyeTV box specs say, I used a Mac mini 1.42 as an HDTV PVR from the month that they came out, and it worked like a champ.

The only reasons I finally upgraded to a G5 tower (just a couple weeks ago) were 1: Decompressing large H264 files on the fly without frame drops, and 2: Better performance when playing games like World of Warcraft.

Re:Or....

[JazzCrazed]

Maybe not, but the 512MB I was using in it is equal to that of what I'm now using in my MythTV box. And I also was using a 1.42GHz Mini that I ordered the day they came out.

The hard drive limitation is worth noting, as well. We're you doing real-time compression? The biggest 2.5" hard drive is actually 120GB - bigger than I had thought, but still restrictive for any big TV watchers for whom live TV is a thing of the past and all shows are only worth watching on demand. And of course no Mac Mini has that big of a hard drive installed. You can (as I did) hook into a file server - and if you want you can even set your file server to automatically compress the video for archiving. Probably a bit more technical than most consumers care to get.

Or you can simply hook in external drives, or even replace the internal drive yourself. But now we're getting rather expensive for a cheap-end Mac. And face it... I'm a do-it-myselfer, and a cheap one at that, so I went the MythTV route.

Today's Minis are nice machines for sure considering the tiny case that they're in. They just aren't very practical or affordable for someone like me. I am excited about the move from G4 to Intel, though.

The fact that my girlfriend got a dual 2GHz G5 (it's in our bedroom) as a bonus from her work made it easier for me to say goodbye, too. So we may be joining you in the G5-based PVR bandwagon soon. =D

Re:Or....

[Golias]

I actually swapped a smaller drive into it (60GB) because i wanted a 7200 RPM drive. I put the old 80 GB into a little USB2 case, which worked out nicely.

I wasn't compressing anything at all until recently. Compression was too slow and yielded a very poor image quality on HDTV systems. My PVR recordings were the full HD stream, and my DVD rips on the file server were straight full-size rips.

H264 has changed that a little bit, but also finally provoked me to move up to a faster system this month. I got a hell of a deal on a refurb dual-G5. Handbrake compresses disks to 60% H264 in only slightly more time that it takes to play them.

Re:Or....

[JazzCrazed]

1920x1080 res at 60% quality at only slightly more than real time on the dual G5? I dig that. Gonna' have to check that out...I'm on the g/f's G5 now. =D

Although a friend of mine who works for broadcaster-codec developer Main Concept told me that they've recently developed a 1920x1080 codec for Pentium 4 machines that encodes two passes at real time. Two-pass encodes are usually VBR, as opposed to a CBR encode that is usually used for percentage-based quality, and would generally take twice as long to perform. To do two passes with h.264 at real time for 1920x1080 is impressive indeed, since I did 2-pass encodes using x264 for DVD resolution (~720x480) at a bit under half real time (1-pass encodes, of course, were more or less at real-time - depending mostly on which deblocking options I picked) on my Athlon 64 machine. Although that was months ago when most AVCs were fairly early on in their lifetimes.

By the way, I'm impressed that you manage to deal with 60gb with OS X also installed for your PVR. I'm doing standard res TV, and the 80gb in my MythTV box is awful slim! I made heavy use of it for today's (American) football games. Although, there are 7200 RPM drives all the way up to 100gb (I'm using a 60gb Hitachi in my laptop, myself). I guess you switched it out a while ago before they got to that size?

They're really expensive in 2.5", though, and I'd rather just spend the dough on 3.5"ers for my file server.

Re:Or....

[bill_mcgonigle]

They'd be better off with a side-channel for commerce. Setup a queue in iTunes like NetFlix. The rest is automatic and controlled from FrontRow.

There, prior art.

Re:Or....

[Golias]

By the way, I'm impressed that you manage to deal with 60gb with OS X also installed for your PVR. I'm doing standard res TV, and the 80gb in my MythTV box is awful slim!

You obviously watch a lot more TV that I do. Apart from "House", "Lost" and maaaaybe the occasional Timberwolves game, I hardly ever bother to record anything. The vast majority of the time I use my media center, it's to watch movies or anime. (Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex is absolutely glorious with a 119" screen and DTS sound by the way.)

Old News?

[EduardoFonseca]

Huh? Isn't this old news?

FP!

Re:Old News?

[sgant]

In other news, Apple is rumored to be working on an operating system that is based on BSD Unix and will have a user-friendly UI attached to it.

They are also thinking of getting into the music arena, possibly with portable MP3 players, but analysts say this is just crazy.

Re:Old News?

[numbware]

They are also thinking of getting into the music arena, possibly with portable MP3 players, but analysts say this is just crazy.

See people, THAT is what happens when your only source is Dvorak. *duck*

Re:Old News?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, but they forgot to mention that it will cost twice (perhaps thrice) as much as any alternative

Uh huh, and you have the option to not buy it, so stop whining like a little girl and get on with life, you whiner.

sacrifice functionality for a pretty GUI and SVG scaling effects

I don't think they'll be needing SVG given that OS X has supported scalable graphics since it was NextStep.

and claim to have innovated things that were created a decade ago.

by NeXT?

I wouldn't worry about them making SVG icons, they already have PDF for that.

Stupid Publicity

[HaMMeReD3]

Didn't RTFA but what the hell does it matter, front row is not new? For something to be news it should be new, this is just olds.

Re:Stupid Publicity

[Anonymous Coward]

If you did RTFA, it's not talking about Frontrow as much as the content delivery system they're creating for it.

Re:Stupid Publicity

[remove office]

actually... what TFA is talking about is a new version of frontrow (2.0) which will be introduced in january along with a new media center edition mac mini (complete with ipod dock built in, possible tivo functionality etc).

it also looks like they're prepping lots of new content from several new cable networks and other sources. i wouldn't be surprised if pixar started making exclusive shorts for the itms (itunes music, er, media store)...

About time

[XiticiX]

This thing will be SLICK! Can't wait to make a few scripts for customization on this one. One thing that bugs me is the fact that you're stuck with their display. Apple is way too "monopoly"-like when it comes to their hardware. Maybe that will change once they go the x86 route, but I doubt it.

Re:About time

[mustafap]

>One thing that bugs me is the fact that you're stuck with their display

I think the Mac Mini demonstrates a willingness to abandon single source on displays. Good thing too, IMHO

Re:About time

[99BottlesOfBeerInMyF]

One thing that bugs me is the fact that you're stuck with their display.

So hacksaw it off already. It supports a second display (mirrored). Or you could just wait till they release the new towers and minis and buy one of them and a display of your choice.

Re:About time

[ThaFooz]

Absolutley, I refuse to purchase any machine with the display married to the computer. I kind of think the iMac is fugly, but that's beside the point.

I love their PowerBooks, and if Apple made a decent mid-level desktop without a display (say, a G5 with a Geforce6600 for about $1,000), I would have already purchased it. The Mini is nice and all, but a G4 & 32 meg vid card doesn't cut it for even occasional gaming, and starting at $2,500, the dual G5 PowerMac is total overkill for my needs.

Re:About time

[iluvcapra]

Front Row only works on the latest-generation iMacs, the ones with cameras, and not on PowerMacs or Mac Minis. Somewhat depressing, but they can still change their mind on that. And, of course, the iMacs have video out.

Re:About time

[Anonymous Coward]

That's funny, I thought the Mac II (1987) through the PowerMac G5 tower represented a willingness to abandon single-source displays. But that's just me...

Re:About time

[SmittyTheBold]

I refuse to purchase any machine with the display married to the computer...I love their PowerBooks

I know it's not really what you meant, but technically...

Re:About time

[Smurf]

...and starting at $2,500, the dual G5 PowerMac is total overkill for my needs.

Hmmm... OK. Just wanted to note that the dual G5 PowerMac starts at $2000, not at $2500. Just in case someone would be mislead by your comment.

CNN wastes our time yet again

[Anonymous Coward]

How can you even compare the two? They aren't similar at ALL, but CNN gives Apple a long slow asskiss anyway. "Sometimes, less is more" for this DVR-killer which isn't a DVR.

Re:CNN wastes our time yet again

[Deviate_X]

"Give them Less Is certainly More profit" For Apple Computer, and its a stragegy that has worked well for them before.

CNN is right about this being "tiptoes into Media Center" domain.

Re:CNN wastes our time yet again

[aristotle-dude]

Were they talking about DVRs? Windows Media Centre may include a DVR functionality as one of its features but that is not its main focus. The main focus seems to be displaying digital media from your computer on your TV. If all you wanted was a DVR, a TiVO would be a better way to go.

Why do you people insist on over complicating things by trying to making something that does everything? Haven't you ever heard of the phrase "jack of all trades and a master of none"? This is exactly what Windows Media Centre has turned out to be. It fails as a consumer device for the masses because it is overly complicated and does not do anything particularly well. Now before you all jump down my throat on me on this. I measure the success of a consumer device on not just quality of output but also ease of use.

Um...

[filefly]

Wasn't Front Row announced months ago?

Installing Frontrow on any system

[Digital Pizza]

There's a utility called "Frontrow Enabler" that will allow you to install FrontRow on any Mac, not just the iMac G5. The utility and instructions are here. You need Pacifist and the latest FrontRow Update from Apple.

Re:Installing Frontrow on any system

[Anonymous Coward]

FrontRow Enabler modifies your BezelServices.framework and BezelService.loginPlugin files to trick FrontRow into thinking your machine is a iMac G5? What are the side-effects?

Re:Installing Frontrow on any system

[poulbailey]

This basically amounts to warez, right?

Re:Installing Frontrow on any system

[mblase]

Been there, seen it. Interesting, but functionally useless, since the only real advantage to using Front Row is when you're relaxed on a futon several feet away using the remote control.

If you don't have a remote, you have to be at your keyboard and mouse anyway, and in that case why not use the standard interface which is faster and more controllable?

Re:Installing Frontrow on any system

[Digital Pizza]

Doubt it; it's just allowing the install of a free download from Apple. If that still bugs you, then don't install it.

Re:Installing Frontrow on any system

[Digital Pizza]

I understand that FrontRow has been made to work with some third-party remotes, and more than a few Macs (especially Minis and upgraded Cubes) are in living rooms connected to TVs.

Not a Media Center

[bookemdano63]

"Front Row doesn't display live TV"
That is pretty limited functionality. So, why would you hook this up to your TV?

Re:Not a Media Center

[99BottlesOfBeerInMyF]

"Front Row doesn't display live TV" That is pretty limited functionality. So, why would you hook this up to your TV?

TVs already display live TV. The idea is that this can be a replacement for your DVD player and CD player. It lets you easily play music, movies, and TV shows and other video you buy online. I think they are hoping to basically do an end run around the cable and satellite companies. Instead of subscribing to cable, you just buy the shows you want rather than a subscription to a bunch of shows you don't want and a few you do. The main drawback is the cost per show (which seems high). The main advantage is it lets you have a permanent copy and see it whenever you want, instead of on a fixed schedule.

Re:Not a Media Center

[lakin]

Most TV's can already handle live TV ;)

Re:Not a Media Center

[pilgrim23]

I found a far more more elegant solution. My "media" Mac is a G4 dual 867 MDD (wind tunnel) with 3 200gb drives and 2 more external 200gb firewire drives. It lives in the library (with my main work Mac: a Dual 1.8 G5. In the living room near the television, sharing space with the VCR, DVD, Laserdisc, and (since I am old old school) Betamax machines is a little silver box called an EyeHome

This magic thing is connected to a router (though it also works on a Airport Extreme or other wireless solution) and via Ethernet pumps avi mp4 and other formatted files to my television. It also handles digital optical sound and mp3s. My stereo system can rock to Weird Al or my collection of Dr Demento shows... Pictures can also be displayed and if you are all thumbs, Web surfing is available. It works with 10.3.9 and above (10.2.8 if you are creative) and oh yes, it works from a remote.

Re:Not a Media Center

[amliebsch]

Eyehome, bah. Nothing so special. I can do every single thing you said with a $100 used Xbox, and the Xbox even plays games!

Re:Not a Media Center

[bookemdano63]

And CD players play CDs and DVD players play DVDs. I thought the point of a media center was to have one interface for all media.

Re:Not a Media Center

[vought]

That is pretty limited functionality. So, why would you hook this up to your TV?


Um, to watch DVDs? The iMac does S-Video and composite out via a nifty adapter.

iTunes visualizations at parties...

iPhoto slideshow...

There are a few reasons to hook this up to a TV.

Re:Not a Media Center

[thatguywhoiam]

TVs already display live TV. The idea is that this can be a replacement for your DVD player and CD player. It lets you easily play music, movies, and TV shows and other video you buy online. I think they are hoping to basically do an end run around the cable and satellite companies. Instead of subscribing to cable, you just buy the shows you want rather than a subscription to a bunch of shows you don't want and a few you do. The main drawback is the cost per show (which seems high). The main advantage is it lets you have a permanent copy and see it whenever you want, instead of on a fixed schedule.

I think you've hit it on the head. Front Row is going to be a really big deal.

And a big reason I think this is because of Steve Jobs - let's recap what we know about him, aside from his famous temper:

- does NOT agree that television and computers will have 'convergence' in the way it is usually described; he thinks more of a co-habitation if you will, with the computer as the ultimate master to all other media slave devices
- HATES the entrenched media companies (Yes. See: Disney negotiations, major music label negotiations)
- wants control over the entire user experience
- is infamous for finding 'end-run' solutions as you put it to sticky delivery problems (or more recently, bailing/sabotaging if it doesn't work, see: ugly dysfunctional iTunes-capable Motorola phone)

And its been so obvious for old Apple watchers like myself, the pieces have been marshaling for a long time. Right back to the ratification of the QuickTime container for the MPEG-4 spec at NAB, moving through the entire evolution of iTunes and the iTMS. They've got the hardware that everyone thinks is cool; they've got the premiere online model for selling digital content (not even a web page! in their own 'browser', iTunes!); they've got an ancient, highly respected and super-capable media container format; they've got a Disney-level brand. Only thing I think they are missing right now are the video-capable Airport Express and some (admittedly tricky) content deals.

They could totally kick ass with this thing if they execute well, but its a very weird situation, since the main competition for Living Room Celestial Jukebox are game consoles from Microsoft and Sony. Those are game machines, and Front Row is not, but all these projects have the LRCJ as a major design goal.

Re:Not a Media Center

[Anonymous Coward]

On the nose, man. On the nose.

The pause-live-TV thing is very cool, no question about it. But what I have never understood is why I need to buy or lease an expensive and ugly outboard box to let me do that. Why is that feature not built right in to my television? The signal that comes into my house over the airwaves is only 19 megabits per second. You could buffer a lot of it with the flash RAM in my iPod nano.

On the other end of the spectrum you've got guys who subscribe to cable or satellite TV. They have pause-TV, and often record-TV, functionality built in to their receivers. You can't get rid of the receiver, so why not include that feature there?

For Apple to go way out of their way (and they'd have to) to include TV recording and pausing functionality would be a waste of effort, I think.

See, love Apple or hate them, you have to give them credit for really thinking hard before they do something. They might make the right decision or they may make the wrong one, but they don't just reflexively spasm to do whatever the other players are doing. They think about it first. That's cool.

Re:Not a Media Center

[Anonymous Coward]

"Front Row doesn't display live TV"
That is pretty limited functionality. So, why would you hook this up to your TV?

Agreed. You lose a very valuable feature if it doesn't have a tuner (no PVR)

Also, why did Apple give it it's own screen? If it's meant to be a computer, why is there a dumbed down interface screen and a remote? (And am I supposed to scoot my computer chair back?) If it's supposed to be hooked up to my entertainment system, why is there a screen? Wouldn't most people already have a TV they would want the video to feed in to?

Unless I'm overlooking something, I think Apple missed the boat on this one.

I just hope they didn't design the remote like they in the same stype of their latest klunky mouse. Imagine having to press a remote button and having to push down on the entire remote.

Re:Not a Media Center

[Reaperducer]

I found a far more more elegant solution.

Cool. You have my attention. My "media" Mac is a G4 dual 867 MDD (wind tunnel) with 3 200gb drives and 2 more external 200gb firewire drives. It lives in the library (with my main work Mac: a Dual 1.8 G5. In the living room near the television, sharing space with the VCR, DVD, Laserdisc, and (since I am old old school) Betamax machines is a little silver box called an EyeHome

This magic thing is connected to a router (though it also works on a Airport Extreme or other wireless solution) and via Ethernet pumps avi mp4 and other formatted files to my television. It also handles digital optical sound and mp3s. My stereo system can rock to Weird Al or my collection of Dr Demento shows... Pictures can also be displayed and if you are all thumbs, Web surfing is available. It works with 10.3.9 and above (10.2.8 if you are creative) and oh yes, it works from a remote.

Still waiting for the "elegant" part.

Re:Not a Media Center

[jafac]

. . . the other drawback being, just as DSL baby bells aren't particularly in love with voip, the Cable broadband providers won't be particularly in love with delivering TV over IP, and Apple eating their lunch.

Gee - what would *I* do, if I were roadrunner? I suppose I could mess with QoS, or fuck around with ports. . .

Re:Not a Media Center

[pilgrim23]

Whatza matta u? You no like Weird Al?

the elegant is: it was cheap, took limited wiring, I already have the Mac IN ANOTHER ROOM where i can spin scream fan whine and crank out all the drive heat it wants and I can sit comfortably in the parlor watching any of about FIVE HUNDRED (500) full length movies or uncounted TV shows per 200gb drive (my Mac sports 5 of these so thats over 2500 shows/movies), or off of a largish collection of CDs. -These are AVIs on CDs that is; a average movie in good DiVX format uses apx 650-700mbs which is 1 CD. TV show 300, typical Japanese fansub Anime 120-350. I can view any format from AVI to MP4 not DRMed stuff or WMV and OGG gets fussy. BUT this means that most home produced mpgs play fine which makes the grandparents happy to see the kid when they visit. Also, EyeHome shh! uses a standard software used by many other players. You can use the drivers for a few of the others and it will allow it to connect to a PC though El Gato does NOT support this feature. The EyeHome is one of the best small investments I have ever made. I am very pleased with it.

Re:Not a Media Center

[geoffspear]

Which would be a great way to lose customers and/or get hit with a massive antitrust lawsuit.

Six-button remote control

[Anonymous Coward]

Five of buttons change the color of media center unit and one is for the mouse click.

Re:Six-button remote control

[Yahweh Doesn't Exist]

actually, it's MS who decided one of the most important buttons to have on their Media Player was a "change skin colour" button. unfortunately the only colours it supports are vomit-inducing, apart from the silver option.

I'm happy that Apple sticks to the principle of "design it properly in the first place and there's no need for stupid fucking skins".

Re:Six-button remote control

[rschwa]

Which button is that, now? I can't find it.

It's easy to have a minimalistic remote when the software has minimalistic functionality.

Re:Six-button remote control

[Anonymous Coward]

look in the bottom right hand corner.

it's not where you'd expect a button to be, but then it's easy for MS design to suck.

Re:Six-button remote control

[rschwa]

look in the bottom right hand corner. it's not where you'd expect a button to be, but then it's easy for MS design to suck.

I still have no idea what you're talking about. Look at this picture and tell me what it says on, below, or next to this magic skin-changing key you're talking about.
I regularly use at least 22 of the buttons on that remote. I could probably do without the number pad and the 'live tv' button if I had to, but the button combinations required to get any functionality out of a 6 button remote are probably similar to trying to get the super ultra mega death combo out of your character in Mortal Kombat.

Re:Six-button remote control

[c_forq]

Try reading again

Media Player

Not talking about remotes, talking about Windows Media Player, in the bottom left corner there is a "change skin mode" button that I have hit too many times to complete amazement of WMP doing something I wouldn't want it to do at the hit of a badly placed button.

Re:Six-button remote control

[Anonymous Coward]

But the 6 button remote from Apple accomplishes the duties of 15 of the buttons on that remote.

Re:Six-button remote control

[mildgift]

Up, Down, Select, Back/Cancel. Volume up, volume down.

Have your system organized into hierarchies, kind of like gopher, or the file system, or the java package hierarchy.

Re:Six-button remote control

[holt]

Isn't that pretty much the iPod interface?

Re:Six-button remote control

[mildgift]

Yeah, pretty much.

I think it's also the old interface from AppleWorks on the Apple IIe.

read the link!

[Chowser]

Read the link to the article at Thinksecret. It's more than about Frontrow. The short paragraph linking to the article doesn't really describe it well. Really quite interesting about storage on iDisk and such.

Re:read the link!

[Golias]

In other words, they linked to a story about Front Row to make it seem like news, then linked to a RUMOR about Apple's streaming video plans to make it seem like the media streaming is the news.

Hence, "Apple Enters Media Center Doman" is a story about a product which has been out for months, with a link to wild speculation about What It All Means.

Without the redundant link to a useless Front Row review to make the headline kinda-sorta factual, you would be left with the far-less interesting story, "Another Rumor Going Around About Mac Media Centers."

Lame.

Re:read the link!

[afidel]

I have a question, they say that you are charged each time you download from iTunes, is this true? If your HDD dies you have to repurchase all the songs?!?!?

Re:read the link!

[scd]

Only if you were silly enough to not back them up to separate media.

Re:read the link!

[pomo monster]

Even then, word on the street is, if you call Apple and speak to a representative, they'll let you redownload all your past purchases, with an admonishment never to do it again.

Re:read the link!

[afidel]

Yes, because it would be so silly for the average user to not backup large media files, not! I know I don't have backups of all my mp3's, it would take stacks of cd's/dvd's to do that, and lots of time. I personally have the origional cd's, but I wouldn't assume that I have to backup my iTunes files, Apple has all the originals, and my account info. It sure as hell doesn't cost them 99c in bandwidth so they should be able to resend me the files, or charge me a much smaller fee to regrab them, most of the cost is in licensing the content from the copyright holder.

Re:read the link!

[NDPTAL85]

Buy an external HD for backup.

Re:read the link!

[big tex]

Conviently, most iTunes users have a HDD backup, namely an iPod.
Plug it back in, and wha-la, protected music restored.

Besides, if you wanted to just back up your protected files, you could make a playlist with just those files and burn them. Hell, I think that such a playlist is one of the standard ones iTunes sets up.

Re:read the link!

[vought]

Not gonna happen for most users, and that's the way Apple like it I'm sure - every time they replace their machine they need to buy all their music again. Hurray for DRM.

Every time I think that the completely uninformed Apple-bashing posts have gone away, someone like this pops up like an annoying ad.

Macs come with neat software that lets you hook old and new machines together via FireWire and migrate all your old stuff over with a couple of clicks.

Macs have done this for a long time, actually. It's called FireWire disk mode. The migration software is pretty new - I think it was introduced quietly a couple of years ago - but Apple knows that most of their customers are upgrading from one Mac to another and designed this feature to make that task easier.

What's more, every time you purchase music from iTunes, you get a reminder to Back Your Shit Up(TM). Unfortunately, Apple can't do this for you yet - people do still need to take the initiative and be responsible for preserving the stuff they paid money for.

Re:read the link!

[plumby]

Backup shouldn't be a problem. Joe User who buys the odd album every now and then can use a nice cheap blank CD to copy the music (either as an audio CD or put several albums on as data) whenever he buys new tracks. For the nerd who's ripped his entire music collection onto his computer (like me), an external hard drive is the perfect way to back it up.

My problem with DRM is that the tracks that I bought from iTunes last week (and they will be the only ones I ever buy from there while they insist on DRM) will not play on my Squeezebox wi-fi music player. I had to put them onto CD and then re-rip them as MP3 before I could use them.

Re:read the link!

[pomo monster]

"Your itunes purchase is authorized to the machine you bought it on. You cannot copy it to another machine."

Tip: Quit babbling about things of which you're ignorant.

Re:read the link!

[switcha]

Lame.

and less storage than a Nomad.

Re:read the link!

[daeley]

Lame.

and less storage than a Nomad.

The Finder seems snappier, though.

Re:read the link!

[vought]

Your itunes purchase is authorized to the machine you bought it on. You cannot copy it to another machine.. that's the whole *purpose* of DRM.

God damn. Are you being intentionally obtuse?

Your itunes songs work on up to five CPUs...any of which can be deauthorized from any machine running iTunes.

Please, PLEASE try and do a little research before spouting ignorance. Yes, the files are DRMed. No, it's not the fucking end of the world odious DRM. In fact, it's pretty damned fair as far as I'm concerned. I have four machines, and they can all play the songs I bought from iTunes. If I buy a new computer, I can deauthorize one of the four authorized ones and authorize the new CPU all by myself.

You really believed that Apple would make you rebuy all your music when you get a new machine? Geez.

Re:read the link!

[Reaperducer]

I had to put them onto CD and then re-rip them as MP3 before I could use them.

Why didn't you just right-click on the songs and select Save as MP3? Is that not an option on the Windows version of iTunes? Sure, transcoding isn't the best solution, but it's much faster than burning and re-ripping.

Re:read the link!

[mrraven]

1. Buy Apple Stock
2. Generate Media Hype
3. Profit!

Not that I'm complaining seeing as my family has Apple stock. :)

Re:read the link!

[aduzik]

Or if you own a Mac and your HD fails, they're even polite about it. The person I talked to (emailed, actually) did give the usual finger-wagging lecture about backing up your stuff, but said, something to the effect of "given the circumstances, it seems appropriate that we let you download all your music again." I think they really didn't care that much since at that time I'd bought exactly one album.

Re:read the link!

[mildgift]

Being able to re-download when you restore a system is a huge selling point. iTunes should do this automatically when you set up a new computer. It is really no different than what Apple does with their automatic updates, or how the popular Linux distributions update you from a repository.

Librarians are paid to keep information organized and available. People pay a lot of money for CD organizers and other organizing products. There is value in keeping things organized and available. If it's known that iTunes helps you migrate your digital music library, then, people will factor that value into the purchase price of iTunes-centric music (and videos).

Re:read the link!

[plumby]

You can do it for .AAC tracks, but not for the protected .M4P tracks that you get from iTunes Music store. I'll go and have a look on my Mac to see if it lets me convert them on there.

If you will forgive a little whining...

[Golias]

"Apple Releases Front Row Media Software" is a news story. (Or, at the very least, a slashvertizement worth reading.)

"Somebody From CNN Write About Apple's Front Row Media Software, Which Was Released About A Month Ago" is the sort of submission that MacSlash and other "what Steve Jobs had for breakfast today is thrilling news to us" sites would probably reject.

I'd rather read a badly-written review of Front Row by some random slashbot (or a link to some techie-site review, like Ars) than another "OMG! Apple Matters So Much That CNN Is Writing About Their Software" submission. Come on, editors. You can do better.

Re:If you will forgive a little whining...

[kerry-buckley]

Come on, editors. You can do better.

Recent experience would appear to indicate otherwise.

Re:If you will forgive a little whining...

[Golias]

I stand corrected.

Re:If you will forgive a little whining...

[Anonymous Coward]

Come on, editors. You can do better.

Where the hell did you get that idea?

Re:If you will forgive a little whining...

[Erik K. Veland]

Oh dear oh dear. It's the _second_ link that's the story here. Read TFA! And that goes for moderators too!

Trade Mark

[Bloater]

> The program, called Front Row, lets you listen to

I think NTL might have something to say about this name in the UK. Their pseudo-VoD system over cable is called Front Row.

Re:Trade Mark

[Anonymous Coward]

think NTL might have something to say about this name in the UK

Like Apple really cares about other peoples trademarks or established contracts

business rules in N.America post 20th century go something like this:
THERE ARE NO RULES JUST GET AS MUCH CASH AS YOU CAN

A Good Idea

[et764]

So apparently this is a dupe, but it's the first I've seen of it, so I found it interesting. I looked at the picture of the remote here and I think I like it. Just the other day I was looking at one of those remotes that come with digital cable boxes these days, and there were way too many buttons there. To make matters worse, almost every remote these days has just about as many buttons, but they are generally organized differently, making it harder to switch TV's. How often do people visiting a friend's house have to ask their friend to do something like change the volume, because the remote is overly complicated? I like the idea of a remote with just a couple of buttons.

Re:A Good Idea

[__aaclcg7560]

Forget the remote... sometimes it's the buttons on the front of the set that I have problems with. Especially the sets that are useless without the remote.

Re:A Good Idea

[Anonymous Coward]

Thats because most cable remotes have channel number buttons. Apple does not need channel buttons on its remote, but if it did then this remote would be retarded.

Re:A Good Idea

[FaasNat]

For me the remote's a little too small. Granted I don't want some huge clunking thing. Maybe something like how the TiVo remote is designed or the Logitec Harmony ones.

Not a fan of the Philips Pronto one either with the LCD display. Can't feel for the buttons on the LCD....

Re:A Good Idea

[Reaperducer]

You think that your buying habits will affect Steve Jobs announcement? The world revolves around you!

Oh, no!

[__aaclcg7560]

I hope this isn't supposed to be the surprise announcement for the MacWorld Expo in January. A friend of mine said the leading rumor is that Steve Jobs will introduce the Intel-based laptops six months before they were supposed to come out. I'm delaying my Mac laptop purchase to see if that rumor is true.

Re:Oh, no!

[__aaclcg7560]

Let see... I used a Mac in college before I ever touched a PC, my first QA job had me testing the client software on various Macs and my second QA job had me testing computer games in the Apple Hardware Lab in Cupertino at one point. While it's true I been a hard core PC guy since '95 and have certifications to prove that, I always wanted a Mac. Since I can now actually afford one, I'm getting to get one next year. :P

Re:Oh, no!

[proxima]

I'm delaying my Mac laptop purchase to see if that rumor is true.

Certainly all products need early-adopters, but buying the first generation of any major device, from just about any manufacturer, often comes with issues. I learned that the hard way with products like mp3 CD players. On the other hand, I got a first-generation Mac Mini and have been overall pleased with it. I would describe the mac mini more like an ibook/powerbook in a new case rather than such a major product shift like the first x86 macs... Still, I have a common problem with the hard drive that parks itself when it's not supposed to (you can read about a "marble" clunking noise on forums). Problems like these can even be fixed without Apple releasing a new version (after all, Apple seems averse to marketing products by any sort of code, so you end up talking about 2nd generation ipods and ibooks with 2 USB ports or some such thing). I got my Mac Mini about 6 months after they were announced, though, so ymmv with this approach.

I guess my opinion is just that you should expect issues, perhaps some requiring warranty service, more than typical for Apple. I'm personally eager to see how well this transition goes, both with new hardware designs and software compatibility/transitioning.

Re:Oh, no!

[Anonymous Coward]

I should never have doubted you, brother; you will be an asset to the Mac community. Carry on.

Re:Oh, no!

[porcupine8]

Maybe the OP isn't waiting to buy an Intel laptop, but waiting (like I am) to see if the prices of older laptops will take a dip when the new ones come out.

(Of course, all the rumors - not to mention common sense - are pointing towards an intel powerbook, and I'm looking at ibooks, so I'm starting to think it's not worth waiting.)

six buttons?

[Anonymous Coward]

"a few clicks of a lighter-sized, six-button remote control."

shouldn't it just have 1 button?

Re:six buttons?

[Tiberius_Fel]

Well, yes, normally, but this is the "Mighty Remote", which can function as one or multi... :P

Re:six buttons?

[GweeDo]

How about one big A?

Re:six buttons?

[e2ka]

shouldn't it just have 1 button?

Actually, if it was designed similar to this that might be possible.

Re:six buttons?

[javaxman]

Six buttons is too many for an Apple object!

I'm sure the designers prefer to think of it as "two buttons and a circle"... I recently had a chance to play with one, and although you're right about the number of buttons it has, after reading your post I first thought "it didn't really have that many buttons, did it ?", I just remembered a menu button and a play/pause control group.

See, the problem is this thing has too many features. Volume up, volume down, change selection left, change selection right, play/pause, menu... that's just too many functions!!

My mother-in-law still won't be able to figure it out.

Re:six buttons?

[drinkypoo]

If it doesn't have a "skip N seconds" function, I'm not interested. By far the buttons I press the most often while watching something on my Xbox are up, down, left, and right. for those who care but don't know, up and down skip forward and backward [respectively] a bunch, and left and right are back and forth a little.

Re:six buttons?

[geoffspear]

Now that's not fair. My Apple Pro Keyboard's got dozens of buttons on it.

Interesting idea, but...

[Gadren]

I played around with this at CompUSA once, and while it's an interesting idea, there's one big flaw: that tiny remote is not only easy to lose (I dropped it behind the display area!), but it magnetically sticks to only ONE part of the monitor, and not in the most intuitive section (it was on the right side, which is bad for a sinistral fellow like myself, and it was too far down on the monitor when one expects to stick it higher up).

Two different things

[Anonymous Coward]

The CNN article is a review of Front Row 1.0 on the new iMac. The Think Secret article is about the NEXT version of Front Row and Apple's new content distribution system.

Personally I would not buy it....

[WTBF]

For a media centre it does not seem to have very many features, even if it is meant to be simple.

Here is what I use on my MythTV box that are not available for this:
- Watching live TV
- Scheduling recording of live TV
- Web interface to access information
- Weather
- Games
- News feeds
- Advert detection

These are all things I use on a daily basis and I think that they should be included in any media centre, and Apple's offering barely meets any of those.

Re:Personally I would not buy it....

[NotoriousQ]

Add to that:
- Ripping CDs from the menu interface, and adding it to your collection
- Doing the same with DVDs

I am willing to bet that Apple will never accomplish the second one.

My summary of Front Row vs. Mythtv:
Front Row looks good, but has ass functionality. Mythtv has good functionality, but looks like ass.

Re:Personally I would not buy it....

[Stevyn]

So what? You're not the target audience. You probably built this yourself and you knew what you were doing. Apple is trying to make a consumer product that's easy for people to figure out and use. This is like a machinist saying a cordless drill from home depot is useless because his drill press is so much more accurate and robust.

Re:Personally I would not buy it....

[LWATCDR]

The Ripping DVDs might be allowed If Apple DRMs the DVD rips. The only real issue would be people renting a DVD and ripping them. For that Apple could just have an age limit. The DVD rip can only stay playable for say a week.
Not Ripping DVDs isn't a show stopper. Apple will be very happy to sell you the movie from iTunes.

Re:Personally I would not buy it....

[good-n-nappy]

You didn't seriously pull out the "Weather" card. Puhhhlease.

I agree though that the TV functionality is a serious omission. The rest of that is meaningless crap. If I want the weather, games, or news, I'll turn to one of the many other outlets available for those.

Re:Personally I would not buy it....

[Anonymous Coward]

If that ThinkSecret article about streaming is right, I wouldn't be surprised if Apple offered instantaneous DVD "rips" for FrontRow. Insert the DVD to verify that you own it, and it's immediately available for streaming/download to iPod etc. Though, that would make it ridiculously easy to amass a huge illegal NetFlixed collection... hmm. Maybe that could be one of the tacit selling points, like how the only way to actually fill an iPod is with P2P.

Re:Personally I would not buy it....

[thatguywhoiam]

These are all things I use on a daily basis and I think that they should be included in any media centre, and Apple's offering barely meets any of those.

Well, there is no offering. Its just a rumour.

And if Apple could compete with your custom-built MythTV setup that you personally configured, well, they'd really have something there. :)

Re:Personally I would not buy it....

[Anonymous Coward]

Here is what I use on my MythTV box that are not available for this

I stared and stared, but the words totally failed to organize themselves into a sentence that resembled English.

Is this like one of those random-dot stereogram headache things?

Re:Personally I would not buy it....

[Stuart Gibson]

If I want the weather..., I'll turn to one of the many other outlets available for those.

Look out the window?

Stuart

Re:Personally I would not buy it....

[good-n-nappy]

Look out the window?

Yes, exactly. Or skip that step and just assume the same weather as yesterday...

That's Cool, But

[Azarael]

I don't know if I would buy a mac mini just to use it for as a pvr etc. Sure it would probably be cheaper than a comercial pvr, but why buy a whole bunch of new hardware when you can use old hardware that's lying around?

Re:That's Cool, But

[Yahweh Doesn't Exist]

why does everyone assume that the a mac mini as PVR would only be a PVR and not also a fully-featured Mac with OS X? surely this is implied by developing Front Row ON Macs with OS X rather than INSTEAD of Macs with OS X? then the question becomes, do you want a Mac Mini that's also a PVR or not? it's like the new iPod with video - it's not a new iPod, it's an updated iPod with video thrown in for free. is there some reason I've missed why the new Mini won't be a Mini with PVR thrown in for free?

Re:That's Cool, But

[Moofie]

Uh, maybe because you don't have old hardware lying around? Or because you want a Mac?

You might be shocked to note that not everybody has the same predilections as you do. Get used to this idea...you will see it again.

Re:That's Cool, But

[radish]

My commercial PVR was free, so no, the Mac wouldn't be cheaper. Unless I stole it.

Re:That's Cool, But

[Azarael]

To the other posters as well I'm not saying that you couldn't use it as a regular computer as well. It's just that my idea of a media center computer is one that hums away quietly next to my home theatre system etc. I don't think that would be very convenient for use as a desktop as well. I'm sure it would make a good server, but as I stated in my original post, there are more economical ways of doing this. Also to the below poster, it's fine if you don't have old hardware around, but it's still less expensive to get your hands on.

Now if Front Row ends up having superior features to other media center software, then that would be a different story

Huh?

[Jugalator]

The only new thing I see here is a stylish remote control.

Media center simplicity?

There are more than one media center out there today that's configurable to be very bare bones and accessible. Just check MythTV and Meedio?

Innovation!

[MiKM]

Windows did it first! Interesting that this post will be modded down while a similar post where Mac/*nix did it first would be modded up.

Re:Innovation!

[IntergalacticWalrus]

Yes. Your point is...?

Re:Innovation!

[Moofie]

Astonishingly, your post hasn't been moderated at all. It's almost like...nobody cares.

Re:Innovation!

[MS-06FZ]

I would mod you down, except I decided I'd rather respond instead. I can't stand posts tagged with something like "but you're all zealots who don't agree with me so you'll mod me down"... Like, what, I'm supposed to read that and think that I'd better not mod you down, lest you be proven right about why you were modded down? No, I'd mod you down because you're trolling, offtopic (by trying to turn the discussion toward the popular politics among Slashdotters and the rating system), and trying to manipulate moderators to ensure that you don't get modded down.

But, sure, OK, you say Windows did it first and it could very well be true as far as I know... In this particular case it's not exactly anything revolutionary, it's just a remote control plus some media player software... But I do believe in credit where it's due.

Re:Innovation!

[damsa]

Apple had a combination TV computer back in the mid 90s, it was called the Macintosh TV. Also in the mid 90s, Apple released the Quadra 630 with a built in AV tuner card slot with ability to watch TV and do video capture. Also Apple had a Video game system first as well, called the Pipin. So there you go.

CNN. Old news for Nerds. Nothing that matters.

[Eternal Vigilance]

The bigger problem here is that /. is accepting CNN (CNN?!?) reviews of existing and well-reported technology products as news.

Guess it's time to start rearranging the deck chairs.... (Or link to a BYTE review of DECchairs!)

not what I'd hoped

[GKevK]

I RTFA... and I'm disappointed. If this is going to depend on programs being cached on iDisk, then why do I need a new Mac Mini at all? Lots of the speculation was that the new mini might get a tv tuner card and lots more storage, to give it DVR functionality etc. How is this different from a website that just streams you video? Media center... yeah right. I'll keep my TiVos.

Re:not what I'd hoped

[javaxman]

How is this different from a website that just streams you video? Media center... yeah right. I'll keep my TiVos.

Um... you watch it in the living room, select it with a remote that also lets you get all all of your music and photos?

I am certainly not getting rid of *my* TiVo any time soon ( they'll have to pry it from my cold, dead hands *after* giving me something better and cheaper ), but I do see some value in *easily* being able to view photos and listen to music from my computer using a remote in my living room.

Really, not a lot about what's covered here is new, it's just packaged in a more-convenient-than-ever form... typical Apple style.

Of course, it's all the typical speculation. January is soon enough, anyone with anything to do should wait and worry about it then.

Re:not what I'd hoped

[GKevK]

Um... you watch it in the living room, select it with a remote that also lets you get all all of your music and photos?

Yes, but all of that can happen if they just make Front Row available as a Mac application... maybe part of the next iLife package. All those photos and music are also going to need space as well.

Realistically, this seems like a solution that is being shaped by the constraints of the existing Mini platform more than adapting the platform to excel in the new application. I have no doubt that the broadcasters will be thoroughly enamored with the prospect of users never actually getting to physically control their purchased programming. It may be a solution for some that are willing to relinquish that control, and I'm not sure that I might not be convinced someday, but it just doesn't seem to be a plan that will convince me to add hardware to my theater. If I really need to do some computer thing on the (front projected) big screen, I can just plug in my PowerBook.

Re:not what I'd hoped

[javaxman]

Yes, but all of that can happen if they just make Front Row available as a Mac application... maybe part of the next iLife package. All those photos and music are also going to need space as well.

FYI, there are what appear to be well-known hacks which allow you to install Front Row on any ol' Macintosh. You should be able to find them doing a web search ( I'm too old to just say 'google' )...

for all you dumbasses who didn't read TFA...

[remove office]

actually... what TFA is talking about is a new version of frontrow (2.0) which will be introduced in january along with a new media center edition mac mini (complete with ipod dock built in, possible tivo functionality etc). it also looks like they're prepping lots of new content from several new cable networks and other sources. i wouldn't be surprised if pixar started making exclusive shorts for the itms (itunes music, er, media store)...

Lighter sized remote?

[Mashdar]

Hell, I can't find a standard sized remote 1/5 of the time I want it. Does the idea of a tiny remote scare anyone else? A couch has 10^5 times the number of places for one of these bad boys to hide.

Perhaps Apple will plan ahead and assume the user will lose the remote and put a god damned set of directional arrows on the unit itself. It seems like once a month I encounter a remoteless DVD player with no means of navigation on the main unit. When the first option on the DVD menu is not play it turns into a hell of a time.

Clarity

[99BottlesOfBeerInMyF]

Just to clarify this submission for people... it contains two, unrelated links. The first is a CNN article about FrontRow and is old news. The second is speculation on a rumor site about the new version of the mac mini and how Apple will tie in a new video service that is largely inferior to what they are offering now, via iTunes, and that will not work with the new iPods video capabilities. The whole thing sounds rather suspect to me.

no DVR...

[GmAz]

So sad. It might auctually sell if...you know....it did more than the iPod video. True, its a computer too, but why spend so much when you can buy a MiniMac and an iPod video for less.

Xbox

[Nightspirit]

For a "media center", my modded xbox with xbox media center (the open source software, not the MS one) does all this and more, and cost significantly less than a mac mini.

Re:Xbox

[fireplacetv]

$300 + time and effort is significantly less than $500 + plug and play?

if $200 is that much to you then perhaps you shouldn't be blowing your money on video games.

Re:Xbox

[Nightspirit]

Perhaps you missed the part of my comment where I mentioned that it can do MORE than frontrow.

$300 + a small amount of time and effort > $500 for a 1/2 assed media center

Re:Xbox

[DrSbaitso]

I paid some kid 50 bucks to install an extra 80 gig HD i had laying around in my Xbox and install a new front end (including media center, a dongle-free DVD player, etc) for me. The Xbox itself was 200 bucks. Plus, I don't have a mac, so setting up a mac mini to play the same role my xbox plays would have been nontrivial in terms of time and effort.

Plus, the Xbox has this other neat feature: it plays Xbox games.

Re:Xbox

[jeffy210]

There is a *big* problem with having an Xbox for a media center... it's puny processor can't handle WMV-HD (or Divx-HD for that matter). yes it has component out and can output a 720p or 1080i stream but it chokes hard on a 700Mhz processor. That's the biggest reason I never considered it. Now the 360 on the other hand... (Also, I want a DVI out instead of just component)

Re:Xbox

[Nightspirit]

A good point I never considered, as I do not yet have HD tv.

Re:Xbox

[JackAxe]

And as arlready pointed out, your $300 mod can't play back HD content. It also doesn't integrate seamlessly with an iPod. The XBox has always been just ok for DVD playback, if anythign its 1/2 ass for everything except being a "cheap" Mame solution.

And yes, a Mini can do much more than just Frontrow, since it is a full fledged computer. The last thing I would want in my entertainment room, is a black 80 pound blah looking failed attempt at a media center.

Re:Xbox

[kollivier]

Apple's target audience isn't a group of people who like modding their computer/console hardware. They're selling to people who don't particularly want to mod their stuff, or pay to have it modded.

Besides, the real value of Apple's solution isn't Front Row itself; the value in Apple's solution lies in their downloadable content. If they can offer affordable movies and TV programs, a new Mac mini would pay for itself in 1-2 years when I can buy the shows I want to watch ala carte rather than paying for cable. I'd be using the computer too, of course, so it would more than pay for itself. The sucky part about TiVo, the XBox MC, MythTV, etc. is that they require setup time and/or subscription fees to work, so unless you watch a LOT of TV (or enjoy the challenge) the boxes just aren't worth the money and/or effort involved. If Apple can bring a buy-as-you-go solution that anyone can use and bundle it with an affordable computer to boot, they'll bring the media center concept to a whole new market of casual buyers/watchers.

Re:Xbox

[chez69]

can the mini play HD? I didn't think it had enough power either.

Re:Xbox

[Anonymous Coward]

No the current can't actually, it has too limited a processor and a slow hard drive making it pretty much useless for HD. I know, I tried! LOL

I assume he is comparing the modded Myth XBox (with all those extra features) to the speculated update of the Mini. This is a meaningless comparison IMO as the specifications for the updated Mini are undetermined, so their is no evidence it will have the grunt to run HD or not. Just because lots of foaming-at-the-mouth fanboys on a few sites claim it it true does not make it a fact.

We might as well start comparing a vapor modded 360 running Myth to the vapor HD Mini.

six buttons?

[cancerward]

Six buttons is too many for an Apple object! I suggest just one button, and the remote can
have a motion detector in it; the user can hold the remote parallel to the appropriate
face of a cube, and click the button. Simplicity itself!

HUGE announcement from Think Secret

[yardbird]

WIth the roll-out of the new Mac mini, which sources continue to maintain will be bigger than anyone can imagine...

So what are we talking about? The Mac Maxi?

Re:HUGE announcement from Think Secret

[ta ma de]

I will buy a mac maxi ASAP, so that my house can evolve into the Mac Maxi Pad it was always intended to be.

Re:HUGE announcement from Think Secret

[JohnsonWax]

Actually, the Mac Fat Bastard.

Parent isn't insightful!

[Anonymous Coward]

mod down parent - the didn't read the article. This is NEW information ... especially the Think Secret link.

At Microsoft Headquarters ...

[ta ma de]

The employees create beowolf clusters with mac mini media centers. The Soviets do it too, but no one cares.

Re:At Microsoft Headquarters ...

[chillmost]

The employees create beowolf clusters with mac mini media centers. The Soviets do it too, but no one cares.

Wrong! I hear the old people in Korea care.

So...

[Anonymous Coward]

It's Windows Media Center then. Right.

The Real Deal Apple's iVision.

[LWATCDR]

Apple is going to buy Sega.
The new iVision from Apple will include a TV tuner to provide TiVo like functions and an iPod Dock.
Why is Apple going to by Sega?
Games baby. The new iVision is going to support all of the old Sega games through emulations for the casual gamer plus get a bunch of new games from the Sega team.

Re:The Real Deal Apple's iVision.

[DaveCBio]

This is not going to happen. Apple knows a lot, but they no squat about games. Every time they have boasted about new support for game devs they have fallen far, far short of their promised mark. Apple is to game as Microsoft is to security.

Re:The Real Deal Apple's iVision.

[LWATCDR]

That is why they are going to buy Sega.

Of course I making it all up out of thin air but what the heck.

Re:The Real Deal Apple's iVision.

[Anonymous Coward]

Sega have already been bought up by Sammy. Sega now have a very solid parent company, and without the failed hardware to support, their games are very profitable. Apple probably couldn't buy them if they wanted to.

Re:The Real Deal Apple's iVision.

[DaveCBio]

I must have pissed of a fanboy. Flamebait? Yeah right. It's the truth man. We tried and tried to get support from Apple for making games and one week they were 100% behind it and the next it wasn't their primary focus. Like it or not it's the truth.

MicroSoft?

[putko]

I bet MS is kinda scared about this. At this stage in the game, I think there are a lot of satisfied Apple customers who'd love to bring an 'iPod' quality media device into their living room.

I don't think MicroSoft has built up this sort of goodwill.

In fact, I saw on TV -- "The Apprentice", where they has MicroSoft on the show. Trump said to them, "I use a lot of MicroSoft, and it works." As if that was news.

Not "it works fanTASTIcally!" -- but just a limp-sounding "it works."

Given how much Trump exaggerates, it automatically downgraded his statement to, "on good days it kinda works," -- basically, if something is half-assed, Trump says it is the best thing ever. So I think MicroSoft has a customer-perception problem.

Re:MicroSoft?

[westlake]

I bet MS is kinda scared about this.

Win MCE is fast becoming the default consumer install even on the laptop. I suggest you take a look at the holiday specials from Dell.

I hear the X-Box 360 is making waves too.

Ahhh Bono, again!!

[ackthpt]

Shoulda warned me, man!

he's probably Steve's illegitimate son

What a yawn-fest

[scuba_steve_1]

Man, the media has a love affair with Apple. First, Apple doesn't even represent this product as a convergence device. They make the UI large and legible from a distance and give you a toy 6 button remote, but don't even come close to saying that it is a media PC alternative...which it is not. It cannot display, record, or timeshift a TV signal. Wow...pics on my TV. My consumer DVD player plays DVDs, WMAs, MP3s, and displays a range of images for slideshows. My TiVo is a timeshifting PVR that networks wirelessly to my PC for MP3 audio, image slideshows, and other TiVo-enabled applications, which I can develop myself in Java.

An Apple low-end pseudo-media PC! Woot! Forgive me for feigning enthusiasm. Bash MS, but they have stepped to the plate with a media PC solution...or I can just build my own...or use the range of other consumer devices that I have mentioned above. Please, let's tone down the love fest until Apple actually starts to innovate in an area other than cute packaging. Until then...yawn.

Re:What a yawn-fest

[NoMaster]

Rightly or wrongly, the computer world has been drooling for the convergence of the PC and the loungeroom. So far, that's been a pipe dream - really, it seems the majority of people just don't feel the need for a PC that links into their entertainment systems like that. Which is why stand-alone devices, up to and including TiVo, have worked - while other things, like WinXP MCE, have pretty much been duds.

Given Apple's track record, their understanding of markets, and their ability to package a whole product which does what it claims to in a simple, useful, and aesthetically pleasing way, this would have a better chance than most previous attempts at being _the_ breakthough device they've been looking for.

What you denigrate as "cute packaging" - nice box, nice interface, etc - is essentially the only thing the people pushing for this kind of convergence have to offer.

Which is not to say I agree - despite having a PC permanently in the lounge room, hooked up up to my TV & digital PVR, I really can't see the point. The "converged PC" is a solution to a problem that exists only in the minds of marketers and the wet dreams of futurists - not in the minds of the market itself.

Re:What a yawn-fest

[Tamsco]

Given Apple's track record, their understanding of markets, and their ability to package a whole product which does what it claims to in a simple, useful, and aesthetically pleasing way, this would have a better chance than most previous attempts at being _the_ breakthough device they've been looking for. Or it means that Apple would enter the market with good but severly overpriced offerings allowing them to take a small marketshare.

Re:What a yawn-fest

[mildgift]

Which is not to say I agree - despite having a PC permanently in the lounge room, hooked up up to my TV & digital PVR, I really can't see the point. The "converged PC" is a solution to a problem that exists only in the minds of marketers and the wet dreams of futurists - not in the minds of the market itself.

I agree. I don't care to spend for an entire PC for the living room when a local area digital cable tv network is all I need :-) A $50 MPEG decoder with decent video out, and a network connection to the server would be adequate.

Also, I'm not interested in owning a big media library (except home movies of course). Being able to rent a movie online would be cool, though. Unlike many people, I don't have cable tv, or even any real clear idea of what's on tv or at the movies. So, whem a movie description sounds interesting, it would be nice to be able to pay a few dollars and just see it, rather than figure out how to get to the dvd rental shop.

Their MP3 player won't be any good.

[ThreeDayMonk]

They are also thinking of getting into the music arena, possibly with portable MP3 players, but analysts say this is just crazy.

I hear that it will have lower capacity than its competitors, and lack wireless. As that's lame, no one will buy it.

Where's my series 3?

[orim]

Yeah, they need to work on Series 3 TiVo. Here's what they need to do:
1) HDTV support? A must these days.
2) Give us high speed networking - Gb ethernet... better yet, some sort of an exchangable network card (even proprietary is OK) for when we get something faster.
3) Faster CPU in it (menus are way too slow to react).
4) Bigger HDs
5) Better media options - make TiVo into a home media center. Right now, I cannot stream music from my desktop for more than a song or two, the connection just kinda dies... And no, I'm pretty sure it's not the network. Release good tools to install on PC's and Linii to drive these media centers if one wants.
      Currently no option for steaming movies from the computers either.
6) Free file copying, unencrypted video each way, network TiVo.

TIVO, we're hoping for a lot this time around!
Hey, I'm allowed to dream, am I not?

Re:Where's my series 3?

[Tony Hoyle]

Series 3? Lucky b.....d!

I'd settle for a series 2. We're still on Series 1 running version 2.5.5 here, and no prospect of updates.

iDisk?

[nicholasjay]

The thinksecret article states that the content will never actually reside on the user's hard drive, instead it will be on their iDisk. Is it just me, or does that suck? You have to have a .Mac account, and there is not going to be an easy way to burn to a disk. I was looking forward to this announcement, but now I'm not so sure.

Re:iDisk?

[Lobo42]

Yeah. This "special caching technology" better be damn good. I sure don't want to wait around to *stream* HD content to my TV!

Tuner

[patonw]

Does it support tv tuners?

You know, the mini seems like a better option than the imac for this type of application.

Re:Tuner

[Anonymous Coward]

Everyone asking about TV and tuning capability in any Apple product listen very closely. And repeat after me, because I'm only going to say this ONCE:

The traditional TV model of 'tune in to such and such channel at such and such time (even if this is accomplished automatically by your TiVo instead of you personally)' is dying. Faster than you might think. In the future, ALL video content (sitcoms, dramas, reality shows, etc.) Will all be delivered on demand. The thing you will be 'tuning' into will be the internet.

Apple knows this, and that is why they are not bothering with TV / Cable / Sat tuners or any such nonsense.

s/stylish/usable/

[Anonymous Coward]

See subject.

Re:s/stylish/usable/

[Jugalator]

What about a normal remote control isn't usable?

i want a standalone device

[binarybum]

I've been searching for a good network device to integrate my computer with my stereo system and television. There's a bunch out there, but no one has executed it gracefully - hence (in my opinion) the relative failure of these devices. The squeezebox products seem nice, but are overpriced and not very multimedia oriented. The situation as it stands seems relatively akin to the pre-ipod mp3 era; I believe apple could probably succeed in pulling off a standalone network media center with the proper interface and a decent pricetag (I'd argue for the $2-300 range) and perhaps a higher end model that offered what I believe would be a unique feature for this line of devices - an integrated capture card with a memory buffer allowing bi-directional media transfer (maybe a later model could include a HD for a full out DVR integrated system). I broke down and recently ordered Hauppagues system, but I know I'm in for a dissapointment.

    apple's mcd appears little more than a remote control perhaps with a slick interface - ho hum -- perhaps its a test bed for a network media hardware device though? I hope so.

All apple needs now is...

[Chapium]

All Apple need now is a Video equivalent to AirTunes. If they can pull that off, it would be quite impressive.

Now I sit and ponder... is such a beast technically possible for decent quality viewing?

Re:All apple needs now is...

[mh101]

I've been predicting the same thing... Imagine a Mac Mini with a new version of Front Row with PVR functionality, plus a Video Airport Express device would be awesome. That would fly off the shelves I bet.

I just did some math though... The video would have to be compressed for this to work - 320x240x16 at 30 FPS would require 295 mbps (unless there are errors in my calculations which is possible...) so there's no way even that low resulution would work over a 56mbps wireless connection.

Some sort of compression definitely is a must. Apple's proven with the new iPod that it would be simple to add a similar (but higher resolution) decoder to a new Airport Express device, but the important thing would be ensuring that the Mac or PC the video stream is coming from has enough power to compress it in realtime.

Re:All apple needs now is...

[aduzik]

I got 35 Mbps from your calculation. 320x240x16*30 = 36864000bps, so to translate, take that number and divide by 2^20 to get Mbps and you end up with 35.15625Mbps. Still, that's probably more bandwidth than you could expect from a 802.11g device -- remember that 54 MBps is the theoretical limit. In reality, the speed is usually much lower than that.

Also, QVGA is just not going to be good enough. People are going to want real 720p or 1080i HD images on their fancy-pants TVs. And, if you're going to have a device that displays to your TV, you're also going to want a decent interface to choose content and what-not. I doubt people are going to use their laptops to control a video Airport Express like you would control AirTunes.

By the time you add up all the features you'd need to make this work, it tunrs out you'd need a device that's about as powerful as a Mac Mini -- plus some key features like real HD output and 5.1 surround sound. So there you have it; it Apple builds anything like this, it's most likely going to be something more like a Mac Mini than an Airport Express.

This doesn't preclude Apple from building something that looks like a Media Center Extender. But again, for what they'd charge for it, it would probably cost about as much as a Mac Mini. So there you have it.

Re:All apple needs now is...

[mh101]

My understanding was that bandwidth was measured in megabits per second so I multiplied by 8 as well to go from bytes to bits. I always get the upper case and lower case 'B' thing mixed up.

Yeah, for encoding you'd need a powerful Mac Mini, but I think the decoding side of things wouldn't need to be too much. If Apple can decode 320x240 H.264 video with the chip in the iPod, it should be possible to build (or find a supplier that can) a more powerful decoder to handle HD resolutions, or at the very least 480i for SD. I don't think they'd need much of an audio decoder, since they could just pass through the audio stream to a standalone Dolby Digital/etc. decoder.

But I'm sure something like this would still be a long ways off, as there's obviously lots of issues to work out first.

Re:All apple needs now is...

[Anonymous Coward]

It's in the works. Give it six months to hit an Apple product. It will not use WIFI, and it will handle multiple video and multiple audio simultaneously. (No, the obvious company won't be ready by then.)

(Posting anonymously because these are forward-looking projections.)

Front Row doesn't _record_ live TV

[Anonymous Coward]

... that's what the parent wanted to say. People love their Tivos, and if the mac mini isn't actually replacing it, then some people will be disappointed. That's all.

Re:Front Row doesn't _record_ live TV

[aristotle-dude]

Why? If people like their Tivos, why replace it? If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Re:Front Row doesn't _record_ live TV

[99BottlesOfBeerInMyF]

Why? If people like their Tivos, why replace it? If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Who says it is not broken? Perhaps not too broken, just not as good as it could be.

Tivo: Watch any show you scheduled to record that has played on the channels you get, unless the cable provided turns on the feature that auto-deletes it from your drive. Watch it anytime after it airs. Pay for a monthly subscription including 95% content you have no interest in.

IP-TV: Watch any show you purchase, including a much wider selection of choices. Watch it after the download is complete. No monthly subscription is needed and you buy only what you want. This is the ultimate "a la cart." This also allows for competitive pricing/supply and is not limited to how much programming can be crammed over the cable system at one time.

Aside from that, a lot of us are not happy with Tivo. I passed on buying one after considering a number of options because they were no offering what I wanted as much as what their cable company partners wanted. The DRM, the obfuscated features, no editing of content, and specifically making it hard to move shows onto other devices were all considerations, but the kicker was price. I don't want to shell out a huge chunk of money for a Tivo that can burn DVDs, and still have to pay a monthly subscription on top of that. There is plenty of room for someone to out-feature Tivo.

I'd buy it..

[tomcres]

I don't care one lick about HD, but...

If Apple put out a mini that came with Front Row and included the remote, I'd buy it in a heartbeat. It would replace my DVD player and I'd get an EyeTV and replace my TiVo as well. I was actually thinking of buying a mini for precisely this purpose, but I'm hesitant to do it without a decent remote control and portal (i.e., Front Row). The beauty of the mini is it's a sub-$600 computer with no frills and takes up next to no space. If they married it to Front Row, they'd easily steal the entry-level (which is, honestly, where average Joe Consumer is) from Windows Media Center, which last I checked, required a behemoth $1000+ PC and is not as simple as FrontRow.

Re:I'd buy it..

[sld126]

Well, you can install it on your Mac Mini now.
http://gigaom.com/2005/12/01/apple-front-row-for-e veryone/

Add a bluetooth adapter, Salling Clicker and your bluetooth phone and you're good to go. Better than the original because it doens't require line of sight!

Re:I'd buy it..

[John Harrison]

If only my mini (the faster one with a gig of ram) could do HD output. Or even a decent framerate on standard def divx files...

Re:I'd buy it..

[Golias]

If only my mini (the faster one with a gig of ram) could do HD output. Or even a decent framerate on standard def divx files...

Stop trying to use VLC and/or MPlayer and it can. I had one hooked up to my 720p projector for a solid year and it did a great job, including on DivX rips of Doctor Who.

The secret is to go with a player that takes proper advantage of QuickTime. I used to use the EyeTV software as both my TV and my video player. Once iTunes bolted a video player on to that, I've found that it works just as well.

Re:I'd buy it..

[John Harrison]

So I need to buy EyeTV?

display options

[mbaudis]

1. imacs can mirror to another display (vga; dvi only with vga=>dvi box)
2. screen spanning doctor http://www.rutemoeller.com/mp/ibook/ibook_e.html enables , well, screen spanning on imacs and ibooks
3. dvd player can be set to disable the other display while playing movies
4. front row patches have been available for a while, so you can run it on most newer macs. a guy even has put a mac mini in his (off all cars) f150, complete with front row etc: http://www.leftlanenews.com/?p=818

i personally use a mac mini without display, controlled via VNC (built into OS X 10.4) and a sanyo plv-z2.

A little late to the game, both CNN and Apple

[TheSkepticalOptimist]

CNN is too busy with doom and gloom to have realized that Front Row was released with thet last iMac update, a little over a month ago.

Second, Front Row is so far away from a media center computer, it isn't even funny. Pretty much its just a front end to iTunes, iDVD and iPhoto. Where is the PVR functionality? Where is the HomeTheater support (i.e. a computer that can output 5.1 Dolby Digital or DTS).

The 6 button remote is a joke too. What does Steve have against buttons? I mean, he dissed Microsoft's Media Center remote for having 43 buttons, but at least it actually WORKS like a home theater remote, allowing me to control DVD menus, access chapters quickly, as well as PVR buttons like record and such, and shortcut keys to get to different apps quickly.

This is classic Apple. They are slow to realize a market trend, quick to criticize others in the industry that beat them too the punch, and then finally introduce a product where their customers are screaming for so much more, and Apple ignores them yet touts it as the most innovative product on earth! Eventually Apple will succumb to customer demand and offer a more feature rich product and claim they thought about it first.

Apple should have realized a few years ago they are in a novel position to create the ultimate set top box. They have the ability to innovate new enclosures shrinking traditional computers to small form factors as well as combine state-of-the-art hardware and software with an eye for simplicity. After the success of the iPod, Apple really should have started focusing on consumer electronics rather then trying to remain a computer company. They will never capture more then 5 - 10% of the computer market. But they could easily become the next Sony (the Sony that USED to offer state-of-the-art well designed consumer electronic components that don't suck) and TIVO combined, as well as a hub for their iPod products. They should have had a network capable HTPC set-top box that is the hub of anyeverything media centric in the home that would blow Media Center out of the water.

But why don't they? Because of Steve Jobs. He believes that TV/PC integration is a fad that will never last. The idea of integrating home theater into a computer based component is just a pipe dream vision OTHER people are deluding themselves with. Yeah, just like PDA's and digital video players. I credit Steve for turning Apple around and making them the buzz word of the 21st centruy with the iPod, but he can (and I believe will) just as easily ruin this company.

Apple's few forays into media based products, outside the iPod, have failed. AirTunes is so feature lacking and unusable it isn't even funny. The fact you need an entire computer to change between songs smacks of a poorly conceived and a rushed product. People only buy these to extend their wireless coverage in their homes. The iPod, while wildly successful, lack WiFi or bluetooth connectivity, even though EVERY Apple computer integrates these features. More simplistic iPod connectivity would be welcomed, but obviously Apple is unaware of the need for it. Now Front Row is a knee jerk reaction to a realization that Media Center PC's are starting to become hot items. Steve is realizing that computers with HTPC functionallity can be sold at a premium without offering much more then the conventional computer, so rather then trying to undercut the market with cheaper computers, people are selling more feature rich computers at a premium price, and consumers are latching on to that concept. I could have developed Front Row in a month, by myself. Why Front Row wasn't offer with the original Mac Mini is beyond me. Again, Front Row seems to be a poorly conceived and rushed product that doesn't offer much.

Anyways, I would be the first in line if I could be if Apple came up with a REAL Media Center HTPC concept. I think they could really make a winner by integrating High Definition PVR support AND simple, clean GUI in a small wunder-PC box. Put an iPod do

Re:A little late to the game, both CNN and Apple

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow, a blowhard with all the answers... how quaint.

Shadduppp!!! Jackass!!!

"The new Mac mini project, code-named Kaleidoscope, will feature an Intel processor and include both Front Row 2.0 and TiVo-like DVR functionality.": From here.

Opinions are like assholes, everybody has 'em and nobody wants to hear 'em.

Re:A little late to the game, both CNN and Apple

[Morky]

To you and 75% of slashdot posters: then vs. than: than is used in the comparitive - "higher performer than what the PowerPC". "Then" is an adverb related to time only. I'm not being pedantic. Too many people on this forum use the wrong form of the word and it makes them look illiterate.

Already have that

[Anonymous Coward]

shouldn't it just have 1 button?

I use an Apple bluetooth mouse, an RF modulator, and EyeTV. I go to the right cable channel and my mac-based media center is waiting for me.

Telewest, too

[gary chund]

Telewest have a pay-per-view movie service called "Front Row" on cable.

Re:Telewest, too

[timmyf2371]

Indeed, the "Front Row" company is a joint venture, fully owned by NTL and Telewest, to provide NVOD & VOD services to customers of both companies.

Re:not what I'd hoped - but worse

[Anonymous Coward]

Lessie iTunes lets me own and download my music and move it between computers and portable music devices.

Neat.

Napster wants me to get streaming material that will go poof when I stop paying.

Nobody's buying.

Apple wants to do Napster for the TV.

Um...wait.

Yeah right

[commodoresloat]

Sure... And there's a rumor they're switching to Intel too. And putting out a multi-button mouse.

You have iTunes for that

[AnEmbodiedMind]

Ripping CDs from the menu interface, and adding it to your collection

If you walk up to the machine to put a CD in you can just pop open iTunes, rip it the once, and be done with it.

Are you seriously suggesting that you should walk over to your machine, put in a CD, and pick up a little remote and navigate through a deep menu hierarchy to find the rip option? Your standing right there - use the mouse

iTunes has a way better interface for doing this stuff than any FrontRow style menu is likely to provide.

Keep FrontRow simple, and targeted at the tasks you need to do across the room on the couch - i.e. finding media, playing it, pausing it, tracking through it.

Then if you need to do something more complicated you've got the whole power of the iLife apps to work with.

Re:You have iTunes for that

[Stuart Gibson]

In principle I see your point, but if you have just installed this in your living room you are not in an ideal position to be doing complex computer tasks. iTunes already has all the functionality to do this with a couple of button presses, so doing it via a remote should be pretty easy. Pop in CD, up pops the option to play or rip. select rip, software checks CDDB and asks "Is this the right album", select yes and off it goes.

Personally, I would be using this as a front end to data stored elsewhere so would be doing media management sitting in front of the computer anyway, but ripping CDs should be an easy task with a remote.

Stuart

Re:You have iTunes for that

[Anonymous Coward]

Can't you configure iTunes to automatically rip CDs when you insert them?

Well, let's see now...

[Anonymous Coward]

I get a remote from my cable box which lets me do stuff... Like choose channels! Sometimes I like to press 514 to get my HD Hockey broadcast, and then 44 to watch the Simpsons during intermissions. How bizarre, but I may, just MAY need a numeric keypad. Of course, if I was scrolling through my movies on my mac, I wouldn't need a numeric keypad, since I would just USE THE MOUSE! Cause, I would MUCH rather watch my DVD;s on my 17" iMac instead of my 42" HD TV. AND, I would LOVE to listen to my music through my iMac system rather than my polk audio receiver. And since my iMac is so great and huge, having it sit next to my TV, between the speakers the audio system is such a great place for it. Really shows off the 17" LCD nicely! People always come over and say... DAMN! That's a nice 17" LCD you got against the wall. What say you turn off the 42" TV so it doesn't distract me from the PC?

Wankers! Front Row is great for doodling around your computer room, or your dorm waiting for friends to show up, but it ain't no media centre!

$599 for a mac mini vs $50 for a tivo

[voidstin]

so... what is interesting about the media center idea again? Why is it worth the extra $549 over a tivo? ($599 over a DirecTivo R10)? (yeah, yeah, monthly fee...) or for this crowd, why not an XBMC, or a 360?

dorm rooms/small spaces? how bout a dell widescreen with tv input? i can pay to download lost? that's better than my season pass how?. I can watch stuff i got off bittorrent? i guess, but burning dvds (or putting it on the new ipod) isn't that hard. I can see pictures? bleh. ipod dock? i really want to manage my ipod on my tv? Stereo integration. I guess, but barely use my airport express (except as a wireless extender).

convergence has been the future since '92. it still bites. until the content providers (really) open up their libraries, it's not that interesting. or, if someone comes up with a really good living room app. haven't seen that yet either (besides tivo, that's amazing).

The video airport express that runs front row on my existing g5 in the other room - that seems worth 100 bucks. maybe. but that's still rumor.

we now return to your regularly scheduled reality distortion field.

Re:$599 for a mac mini vs $50 for a tivo

[Anonymous Coward]

It may shock you but there are allot of countries outside the USA who doen't gave 50$ Tivo's... .

Ho Hum...

[ElitistWhiner]

WTF... it just shows one indicator Jobs is not watching the shop anymore. What a brain dead unimpressive move on the market. Whoever's joianes is on the chopping block it will be interesting to watch the axe fall when Steve nixes this one.

OK now, If this is the best Apple has to come up with for moving the brand forward into the future, I'll submit my resume. Geesh...

Simplicity will be complete...

[Caspian]

...when every Mac has only one key on the keyboard, a "DWIM" key.

Wait, scratch that. End users are afraid of keyboards. Make it a mouse with a "DWIM" button.

Hang on, scratch that. It'd be simpler if they didn't even have to press the button...

MOD PARENT UP (out of spite)

[DwarfGoanna]

What an iconoclast! I bet everyone who claimed Apple released the first media center PC feels sooo stupid now. =/

and /. is supposed to be cutting edge news?

[diwaker]

seriously, the moderators need some help. This story is neither new, nor has any interesting analysis/discussion.

Precedent

[ThreeDayMonk]

In Japan, Apple's wireless networking products are branded as 'AirMac' instead of 'AirPort', as another company (IO-DATA, I think) has the trademark on 'AirPort' for its own WLAN range.

Perhaps Apple will have to use a different name for Front Row in the UK. 'Comfy Chair'?

Re:Precedent

[Bloater]

I just found that the BBC has a regular radio program called "Front Row" which is delivered on demand via the internet, so this probably isn't trademarked for that use after all.

bluetooth?! huh!!???

[Anonymous Coward]

I got Nextel.. we don't got no stinkin' bluetooth.. hah!

;-)

Lovely

[Anonymous Coward]

Thank You for this intriguing article

Don't need a TV Tuner if Apple has one

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple could record your stuff for you (from partnered broadcasters, of course) and save it on your iDisk. you don't NEED a tv tuner. It would take relatively little hardware and storage space to record and store, say, 100 channels for all users.

Apple would only need to store the material once even if many users wanted to record the same show. The price you pay for iDisk could be much less than what you would need if you bought and backed up your own storage.

The video could be delivered to you in a resolution that you could display. A mini might not be able to play full resolution HD and your network connection may not be wide enough to stream full HD.

I'm sure they could strike some deal where Apple perhaps leaves the commercials in place and prevents further distribution in exchange for the right to time-shift the material. Most of the content owners would prefer this solution to everyone running their own PVR (and sharing their recordings)

I can't help but think this is exactly something Steve would do.

Yep

[Stu Charlton]

I just got a new iMac G5 and it transferred over all Powerbook G4's my files, applications, settings, etc. using the automated software (which pops up the first time you turn your comnputer on). No problems.

It did not automatically authorize the music, however, i had to do that the first time I played a purchased iTunes song. And you will also probably want to go back to your old computer and de-authorize it to free up one of your 5 slots.

Pix PLZ THNKZ!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, we need more mac users to feature at atspace.com!

Media Center with back row

[Geniecommands]

News Update Dec. 5, 2005 Sounds like allot of people hitting our website are waiting for something to happen from Apple. Well we were waiting as well and as one user posted on Mac360.com "the user has the ability to take it and set the standards now". Genie is not a one stop solution like Front Row, it is more user definable and can also command Real and Windows Media Players as well. It's Digital TV vs Internet TV and good cheap content is what we want. We know Apple will take Front Row further and we love what they have done with the first version, so we have incorporate it into our software on top of the first menu so nobody misses out. Future upgrades to Geniecommands in the coming weeks will include a Themes importer. There has also been suggestion of an small screen version in the near future. Talking with distributors of Keyspan Remote they have said that it may come down as much as $20 in the near future. As for the rest of the hardware more choice and lower costs are only just round the corner. So dip your toes in the water is warming for the Mac Media Center. www.Geniecommands.com