Google Enters Web-Office Market

jaiva writes "Google's official blog tells us that Google has acquired Writely, a collaborative word processor." From the article: "To be clear, Writely is still in beta, and it's far from perfect. Upholding our great user experience means everything to us, so we're not accepting new registrations until we've moved Writely to Google's software architecture. If you're interested in giving us a try, we hope you'll get on the waitlist so we can let you know when you'll be able to try out Writely."

Comments

Corporate Ladder

[LiquidCoooled]

Intercom: "Mr Writely, would you please proceed to the 34th floor."

Writely: "I'm going up to the 34th floor!"

Lift Guy: "Hiya Writely, going down again today?"

Writely: "Hey there Preston. Nope, I'm going upstairs today!"

Lift Guy: "Ahhhhh you've been called to the 14th floor again?"

Writely: "No, I'm going higher than that. This is a call all the way to the top - the very top!"

Lift Guy: "Woooooooow, I hear they have Aeron Chairs up there!"

This looks really cool :)

Re:Corporate Ladder

[__aaclcg7560]

Aeon Flux is on the 34th floor! Must be black leather day...

Re:Corporate Ladder

[Anonymous Coward]

The Hudsucker Proxy?

It's in beta? Great.

[Anonymous Coward]

In other news, Google releases a new slogan:

"What starts in beta, stays in beta"

Login Info

[ZiakII]

Typical slashdoter... not checking www.bugmenot.com .... Try this

Login: boston@dodgeit.com
Password: Boston

Enjoy! (Yes I tested it unless some troll changed the password. )

Re:Login Info

[BewireNomali]

I use writely. it rocks. the developers were really cool too. kudos to them for getting rich.

Re:Login Info

[ZiakII]

whoops password is boston

Re:Login Info

[Anonymous Coward]

Typical slashdoter posting an incorrect informative comment in an attempt respond to themselves and get more karma.

Re:Login Info

[Sima]

Nope, don't work, I got this:

Sign In to Writely
The e-mail address and password you
entered do not match any users we know of.

Re:Login Info

[JourneyExpertApe]

What's the word for when an account posted on bugmenot is canceled? Well, that's happened already.

Re:Login Info

[muszek]

let's try "re-bugged" (or "rebugged") as in "the account got re-bugged"

Re:Login Info

[paulkoan]

No! Using bugmenot doesn't send the right message. We want rid of pointless password protected public websites, and each time someone uses bugmenot (let alone actually registering), it sends a positive web count to the site producer.

If they demand registration, read the article elsewhere.

This is the internet after all.

This is obvious...

[__aaclcg7560]

To be clear, Writely is still in beta, and it's far from perfect.

A perfect into the Google product line.

Re:This is obvious...

[LeonGeeste]

Yeah, I was kinda surprised by that, releasing a product in beta is an unusual move for Google.

Re:This is obvious...

[bloggins02]

I see that your post is still in beta as well.

(sorry)

Re:This is obvious...

[Oxen]

To be clear, Writely is still in beta, and it's far from perfect.

From the online tour, "Let me tell you, Writley is AMAZING. It's easy to use, efficient (it auto-saves once in awhile, but you can't tell it's so smooth), and perfect.

Re:This is obvious...

[MindStalker]

To respond to the slicedbread idea I believe this has been tried in france, atleast half the experiment.

Re:This is obvious...

[birder]

Google will be hiring him shortly.

Re:This is obvious...

[LeonGeeste]

Er... the whole point of it is to try both, very close to each other. But I appreciate your input and the time you took to read it.

Re:This is obvious...

[MindStalker]

Having them close together would defeat the purpose as neither system would work right if people could travel freely between them. Living and receiving the services of the social state while doing work in the free economy state. The socialist state would go broke in no time unless you forceably kept them there, but that would be imprisement and you'd be no better than soviet Russia. In other words, yes socialist system MAY work, but only if it only trades and connected in any way with other socialist system. You might try a new planet...

Re:This is obvious...

[LeonGeeste]

Ah! So that's what that stuff is!

Re:This is obvious...

[LeonGeeste]

That socialist governments negligently give out social services, and free market economies are far more sustainable and desirable to work in is exactly what I would hope it would prove. If a socialist economy only "works" when all vesitiges of capitalism are eradicated, or it cuts off trade and workers are imprisoned there, what the fuck does that say about socialism?

Re:This is obvious...

[BeanThere]

I have been wondering if how well socialism vs capitalism would work may depend on some aspects of the mainstream culture ... e.g. I think that European-style leftyness probably 'wouldn't work on Americans' (or vice versa). Maybe different motivations work better with different mindsets. But I haven't thought about it too much.

Re:This is obvious...

[MindStalker]

If a socialist economy only "works" when all vesitiges of capitalism are eradicated, or it cuts off trade and workers are imprisoned there, what the fuck does that say about socialism? Id say it proves socialism doesn't work.. Because you simply can't cut off all vesitiges of capitalism. Socialisms primary failure is its ignorance of greed. People are lazy and greedy they will do the least work that gets them the most reward. Period. Even in a socialism island people will continue to do blackmarket work so as to not be taxed. These people will succeded while driving the honest poorer and poorer. The only way a socialism system could possibly work is it a futuristic tech utopia where nobody has to work, and you'd still have most of the population sitting around doing nothing.

Re:This is obvious...

[MindStalker]

Hold on. I just reread your comment and realized your are saying that socialism WON'T work. Which is interesting as your breadslice posting sounds like your promoting socialism... Or is it someone elses posting and I've gotten the entire thing confused..??

wiki killer?

[keilinw]

I'd really be interested in something along these lines... but with wiki integration! How cool would that be? WYSIWIG wiki, end user focused, and with security features.... so that even dumb people could use it... err.. I think thats what this is huh?

--Matt Wong
http://www.themindofmatthew.com

Re:wiki killer?

[Mean Variance]

Or they'll just buy Jotspot.

Re:wiki killer?

[bro1]

There is already such a thing: www.seedwiki.org

Re:wiki killer?

[Anonymous Coward]

err... aren't enough dumb people using wiki yet?

Re:wiki killer?

[Pleb'a.nz]

Sounds like what my Content Management System does already :) There's a fine line between a CMS and a Wiki, I think you've just explained the steps between the two.

I can't wait

[Anonymous Coward]

till i can upload my company files to an American advertising based company so they can rifle through our documents looking for whatever them or their goverment takes their fancy

yeah i can predict this will be a great success

Re:I can't wait

[RandomPrecision]

Remember the last time the government wanted information from Google?

Re:I can't wait

[quanticle]

I understand the point you're trying to make, but I really wouldn't mind having something like this. As a college student, I often have multiple unsynchronized copies of term papers in different places. A service like Writely helps keep everything up-to-date, and in one place.

As for privacy, if you want to search through my History of Science term paper, be my guest.

Re:I can't wait

[nEoN nOoDlE]

You don't think this will be successful because many companies won't upload their important documents to an online site? That's pretty ridiculous. All of google's tools are geared for the most part toward desktop computers at home. As such, I'm going to use it because it's a great alternative to paying 600 bucks or however much Office costs for a word processor, and I'm sure that many other people will feel the same way.

Re:I can't wait

[pimpimpim]

companies can buy google hardware for intranet searches. Maybe they will do the same for all other applications they are working with. Since these are however still closed source "black boxes", AND connected to your network, I don't know how trustworthy you can be that these will not upload everything to the big google database.

Re:I can't wait

[Wellerite]

I'd say this is targeted at home users (who don't mind having all their emails stored at gmail). But google could quite easily setup and run intranet-based versions of this for companies who value their privacy.

Of course, Google may implement some form of encryption so that documents are only readable by certain users or groups of users. This of course would bunk their targeted advertising, but I'd imagine that Google would charge companies for that sort of service. I could see some multinationals might want some sort of internationally-accessible document storage and search system if they don't want to set up their own VPN.

Re:I can't wait

[AmericanInKiev]

Whose to say Google doesn't sue to prevent it while giving it to them in the first place - I certainly would. Best of both worlds, you keep your reputation ''and'' your freedom. AIK

Re:I can't wait

[wvitXpert]

What kind of moron would use this service on company files, or on documents with information you need kept secure? We've been over this same thing with gmail. If your dumb enough to publish secrets to another company's system you deserve what you get.

And besides, the goverment will just be able to crack into your computer and take anything they want soon anyway. Why bother with Google?

Re:I can't wait

[shutdown -p now]

Why not, considering that GDS was?

Re:I can't wait

[trifster]

I agree with your point. I too am more pleased with the capability than the issue of my doc's online. seriously? my shit is boring to 99.999% of the world.

Re:I can't wait

[Haertchen]

Well, I rather think that if you want to keep something absolutely private, don't use the service.

As others have pointed out before, the same applies to email, or just about any other activity online. And I think that that was the real jist of the grandparent post. Only put things on that the whole world could read; there are plenty of those and the service is useful.

Re:I can't wait

[jmb-d]

As a college student, I often have multiple unsynchronized copies of term papers in different places.

OK, I'll bite.

WHY do you often have multiple unsynchronized copies of important documents laying around?

Are you really that disorganized that you can't keep track of a single copy?

Puzzled...

Re:I can't wait

[nastyphil]

> WHY do you often have multiple unsynchronized copies
> of important documents laying around?

They're called backups.

Re:I can't wait

[tommertron]

I don't know if I had different unsyncrhonize term papers all over the place, but I can totally see his point that it's great to have an online document when working on term papers in university. When I was in school, I had no laptop, so I had one computer at home. If I wanted to work on it somewhere else, I'd have to email it to myself. Then I'd work on that and email it back to myself. Sure, I just always check the most recent email for the most recent copy, but this just makes so much more sense. And imagine groupwork, like a lab write-up or something. Everyone can just jump in and edit at the same time, or add stuff whenever they want to, and it's all centralized. Really, it's just huge.

Re:I can't wait

[jmb-d]

I'm not disputing the value of web-based word-processing software -- being able to work from any (net-connected) computer is indeed A Good Thing.

My point is that having multiple, possibly un-synchronized copies of ANY document is a logistical nightmare. Having lived through too many cases of "it works on MY system" where the problem turns out to be different versions of the "same" source code makes me cringe at the thought of anything other than One True Copy of a document being "live" at any given time.

For groupwork, a collaborative workspace is ideal.

[fogey-alert]
Back in MY day, I wrote papers on a typewriter -- a backup copy was something I made on a Xerox machine on my way to turn the paper in.
[/fogey-alert]

Re:I can't wait

[cmacb]

"What kind of moron would use this service on company files, or on documents with information you need kept secure? "

Believe me, the typical user of Microsoft Office is even DUMBER! They carry around important documents on floppy disks and laptops, frequently misplacing both and sometime losing them. They e-mail their freaking Word and Excel files to each other anyway, up to the point where the files are so big they bounce. Finally they are often at the mercy of network administrators who don't give a rat's ass about their company secrets.

Much better in fact to do business with an online company that promises to keep your documents safe and secure. If Google, or anyone else provides such a service, and takes it beyond a beta for personal use I'm quite sure there will be grounds to sue said company if their products fail.

Last time I checked nobody had successfully sued Microsoft for putting out crap. But while they say "no one ever gets fired for using Microsoft" such people DO get fired, they just put other reasons on the form.

Re:I can't wait

[missing_boy]

You sound like my mom. She says that "Why should I be afraid of , as long as I'm not doing anything wrong...?" in reply to my concerns about our decaying civil liberties. You cannot accept the possibility of your private affairs being surveilled, read or gathered by anybody, unless you're perfectly happy with living in what can very easily turn into a dictatorial police state.

Re:I can't wait

[SillySnake]

I took history of science.. If you're not careful someone will search your paper and then patent it as an insomnia treatment. Before you flame me.. I thought the class was interesting.. the reading was much more dull :-p

Re:I can't wait

[advocate_one]

till i can upload my company files to an American advertising based company so they can rifle through our documents looking for whatever them or their goverment takes their fancy

you do this right now with Microsoft everytime you press the "send report" button in the post crash dialog...

Re:I can't wait

[Anonymous Coward]

I used SVN with LaTeX in school.

Re:I can't wait

[rtb61]

A collaborative workspace for M$ office was pretty well bagged as being generally pointless, so why would a web based one be any different. As for commercial use, threats to business secrets would pretty much put it out of the question. As for indivdual use, current portabel USB media solve that. A product with very limited application from a company struggling for new markets.

Re:I can't wait

[dalutong]

Some people are saying they don't know why he'd have different copies of the same paper around. Easy:

I write in OO, but I have to turn things in as either pdf or doc. I usually do both. So those doc/pdf versions lay around. If I get the paper back with comments while I'm on campus I will edit at the computer lab. Later I might edit it at a different lab, or with my girlfriend's laptop. If I don't email it to myself after edit then even the copy I have in email isn't the most up to date. Not to mention, I might an edited copy back that I want to keep unmodified. Or I might not want to merge that into the "master" because I've continued to write while I was waiting for it to be returned.

Re:I can't wait

[Anonymous Coward]

What the hell is wrong with you. They most likely have a PRIVACY POLICY. They will not SELL, DISTRIBUTE, MAKE AVAILABLE, OR IN ANY OTHER WAY SHOW your information to anybody. I care about my civil liberties as much as the next guy, but you... YOU ARE A PARANOID FREAK. You sound like you have 12 locks on your doors, and no windows (to prevent the "possibility" of anyone peering through and seeing your valuable documents laying around.) Moron... Anyway, sounds like a great app to me.

Re:I can't wait

[krowten21]

Remember the last time China asked Google for something? Google does not stand by their principals. They will do what it takes to keep that stock climbing.

Re:I can't wait

[tommertron]

A collaborative workspace for M$ office was pretty well bagged as being generally pointless, so why would a web based one be any different. As for commercial use, threats to business secrets would pretty much put it out of the question. As for indivdual use, current portabel USB media solve that. A product with very limited application from a company struggling for new markets

I've been using Writely for the past little while to work on my play, and I've found it fantastic. I can jump onto any computer with a net connection and work on the most recent version. There's no way I'd trust having the one 'true' copy of the play on a USB key. First, it costs money, if not a lot. Second, the data is possibly corruptible due to wear and tear damage. Third, I'm so absentminded, I might lose it, or even more likely, forget to bring it out with me.

As for the collaborative nature... absolutely essential as well. I have my play notes which are up there as well, which the director can add to whenever he wants, and I'll see updates. Same goes for budget. We have a basic budget up on Writely, which we can tweak at any time, as expenses become more or less expensive as we though. And my director also knows that the most current version of the script will always be at one location - no e-mailing necessary.

Re:I can't wait

[odyaws]

I understand the point you're trying to make, but I really wouldn't mind having something like this. As a college student, I often have multiple unsynchronized copies of term papers in different places. A service like Writely helps keep everything up-to-date, and in one place.

I agree! As an academic researcher, I frequently work on papers with multiple authors, sometimes spread across the globe. If my co-authors are pretty unix-savvy and we're working in LaTeX, as is usually the case when we're working on an engineering paper, I set up a CVS server to accomplish this. If I'm working in science rather than engineering, though, LaTeX is usually not an option and I really don't want to try to teach anybody CVS, so we end up emailing multiple copies of the paper around and I'm stuck trying to reconcile the various versions.

Re:I can't wait

[Anonymous Coward]

I see no reason why Google won't be able to sell a stand-alone box that runs this stuff that you could add to your company servers. Kind of similar to their search appliances: http://www.google.com/enterprise/gsa/index.html

Re:I can't wait

[rednever]

[older-fogey-alert]
Back in MY day, I wrote papers on a typewriter -- a backup copy was something I made using carbon paper and another sheet of typing paper.
[/older-fogey-alert]

Re:I can't wait

[jmb-d]

[white-goodman-mode="on"]
Touche!
[/white-goodman-mode]

Re:I can't wait

[rtb61]

Well the catch is a product can hardly be called successful if it suits a market of one. The majority will take the easiest, safest, most simple solution. With the increasing size and falling price of flash storage media and with an even more significant change on the horizon in size and price with polymer chips, portable storage wins.

The majority market are not computer geeks/nurds and only make minimal use of computers and the web and as for the technophiles they are becoming increasingly security and privacy concious. Of course googlites will make maximum use of it and praise it endlessly. This still seems more like a product to convince financial analysts that google has a future beyond being a search utility, with the fiscal returns and growth of a utility company.

Re:I can't wait

[quanticle]

Its not mandatory that you use the service. If you're concerned about your documents being surveilled, you're still free to leave them on your personal computer and encrypt them as heavily as you want.

Writely rites good!

[LiftOp]

Spelchecker needs werk.

Love, Gogle Developmint Teem

Re:Writely rites good!

[David Horn]

Ah, but does it do the Microsoft Word favourite trick of trying to correct "internet" to "internat"? ;)

Re:Writely rites good!

[Petrushka]

Heh. Reminds me of an early-ish online automatic translation tool that translated English "internet" into German "beerdigen Netz". Those of you who know both German and English will get the joke :-)

pieces of a puzzle...

[pvt_medic]

While there is great debate about googles master plan or if it has one. The whole concept that they make things and then try to make them profitable. The more i see their actions the more a threat to almost every element of the PC industry they present.
1-Online Storage
2-Office Suite Program
3-Data Search
4-E-Mail, Chat
5-Entertainment (Video, Photos)
6-Online Sales ?7?-Games?? (is this a possibility down the line) A large sector with big potential

I'll be honest I am one who thinks that eventually we are going to be returning to dummy terminals, a lot of these items would support that. I think they have a bigger plan, and I think we are beginning to see pieces that fit together. But also they have one or two more cards they havent played yet.

Re:pieces of a puzzle...

[Anonymous Crowhead]

we are going to be returning to dummy terminals

So, you are switching back to Windows?

Kidding aside, I doubt we will switch to dummy terminals but it would certainly lessen the requirement of any particular OS.

Re:pieces of a puzzle...

[Anonymous Coward]

To me it's fairly straightfoward. They are prototyping all of these web-office apps over the internet, to get all scaleability and usability issues worked out.

Then, they'll start selling servers running the whole productivity suite to replace Microsoft exchange/office to businesses.

What IT department wouldn't seriously consider moving to a system where desktop application upgrades happen once at the server and the only thing needed to support it on the workforce's machines is a web browser? Every employees documents stored on the "G:" drive that is easily tracked and backed up, rather than having to worry about remote backups on each desktop?

Re:pieces of a puzzle...

[14erCleaner]

I'll be honest I am one who thinks that eventually we are going to be returning to dummy terminals

Would that be like the Etch-a-Sketch that Dilbert's PHB has? (only desktop, not portable)

Re:pieces of a puzzle...

[AKAImBatman]

I doubt we will switch to dummy terminals but it would certainly lessen the requirement of any particular OS.

Personally, I see us switching to dummy terminals to interface with computers, but home computers will still exist. The idea would be that the "Desktop Computer" as we know it today would disappear and be replaced by a device that is capable of video/audio I/O through devices like your televsion and stereo system (thus allowing you to "watch TV/listen to the Radio" off the Internet, or record your favorite programs from the airwaves) as well as broadcasting desktops to dumb terminal type devices.

So my spouse and I might sit on the couch, each using an inexpensive wireless "laptop" device (that would be extremely thin and power efficient, as the processor is not required to do as much "stuff" as today's desktops) while listening to music in the background. The kids would be in the other room watching television directly streamed from the internet, but rebroadcast to the TV in their room. (Either through ethernet or wireless.)

So goes my vision, anyway. :-)

Re:pieces of a puzzle...

[cashman73]

6-Online Sales ?7?-Games?? (is this a possibility down the line) A large sector with big potential

The next big news story to come out about Google will be when they announce that they're purchasing Duke Nukem Forever. Then, the game really will be in Beta forever!

Re:pieces of a puzzle...

[larry bagina]

remember when google burst on the scene? Yahoo! was formerly the king of search engines, but they got sidetracked with other things -- message boards, chat, email, auctions, stores, credit cards, hell they even had a magazine. Google showed up, doing searches and nothing but searches.

So now google has expanded into other territory. Half of their services are in perpetual beta. Thanks to keyword spamming and gaming the google, their search results are often useless. Click fraud is very real.

Google is a threat, but they're a threat to themselves.

Re:pieces of a puzzle...

[robgamble]

[Zoom forward 50 years]

One day we may rely on centralized quantum computers that the average Joe won't be able to afford, or maybe won't need to afford. A standardized viewing mechanism could be relied upon, along with keystroke, voice and gesture entry, and a common mechanism for transmitting sound and other media could be defined.

Now if the security were managed correctly, you and I could visit our data from any workstation in the world, because the apps and data are all hosted. You could just identify yourself and take control of whatever data and applications are connected to you from wherever you are. Some folks may opt for better interface equipment (speakers!) but the network and processing power would be the same for everyone (and it would be enough).

[Flash back to modern day]

Today's in-the-browser desktops and applications are cute but right now they can't do much. It's interesting see developers working hard to provide these tools but it will be years before Microsoft and Google can provide a compelling "stay on this web page for everything you need" solution. It's obvious what THEY would get out of it (increased ad revenue), but so far we get nothing but a flashy AJAX demonstration.

Re:pieces of a puzzle...

[rm69990]

Ummm, Altavista was the king of search. Yahoo! was born a portal. Yahoo! viewed search as a commodity, or loss leader.

Re:pieces of a puzzle...

[AnyoneEB]

I think beta would be a major improvement for DNF.

Re:pieces of a puzzle...

[Tinidril]

I left Yahoo when they started throwing up so much garbage on their front page related to every single service they were trying to offer. It started getting real hard to find the content among all the self advertising.

Google has very much _not_ made that mistake. Their front page is about as simple as it can get.

Re:pieces of a puzzle...

[ClosedSource]

Perhaps they can just layoff their IT staff altogether if there's nothing for them to do.

The purpose of an IT department is to support the company's users so they can do their jobs better and consequently make the company more profitable. In those companies that have lightweight office suite needs, a browser-based application may be fine. For those that require a more sophisticated application, it won't do.

In either case, the needs of the money-generating employees should be the deciding factor, not the workload of the IT staff.

Re:pieces of a puzzle...

[Anonymous Coward]

If it's an actual dumb terminal, you wouldn't need a processor at all, just a screen, keyboard, and mouse.

You're thinking of a network computer.

Re:pieces of a puzzle...

[KarmaMB84]

Why do I randomly get thrown to a crappy bloated version of Google's homepage when I type www.google.com?

Re:pieces of a puzzle...

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't think that's correct. Google is an advertising company at the core. They write software as a vehicle to carry their advertising. Its clear that the reason for all of these applications is to see into all aspects of everyone's data. Think of the targeted advertising that they can do. For example, you send an email asking about their digital camera. Google sees that, and starts to throw ads for digital cameras. A simple example, but it illustrates the point. Unfortunately, corporates are always looking for ways to grow the business, and all of this data can surely be used in ways that the user did not intent, which is my worry.

Re:pieces of a puzzle...

[Nefarious Wheel]

Personally, I see us switching to dummy terminals to interface with computers, but home computers will still exist. The idea would be that the "Desktop Computer" as we know it today would disappear and be replaced by a device ...

This is often called "convergence", but I think "divergence" would be more appropos. It makes sense to create specialist devices from general-purpose stored program computers. An MP3 player is a computer. A GameBoy is a computer. A Non-contact Digital Thermometer with Laser Sighting (e.g. Soanar QM-7222, what a cool toy, don't take it in a carry-on bag) is a computer. But none of them require you to carry AVG support or RAID arrays around with you. Yet. Unless you want to.

Re:pieces of a puzzle...

[richlv]

does it say "chixxxx with big boooobs" and similar ? maybe you are using internet explorer ?

(no offence, it just had to be said - never have seen the 'bloated' version you are talking about :) )

Re:pieces of a puzzle...

[mgblst]

Was yahoo ever a big search engine - wasn't it more of a portal. I know that I never used yahoo at all, even for search. I never really thought that yahoo was that big, just had a lot of advertising.

Google is a threat, but they're a threat to themselves.

So they are steadly releasing a bunch of useful services. Somehow this is threatening their search engine dominance? Your statement doesn't really make much sense. Sure their products are marked beta, but they still work fine - if not perfectly.

Re:pieces of a puzzle...

[DJK]

Actually, Yahoo started as a directory...

Re:pieces of a puzzle...

[birder]

I was just going to say that. They manually entered relevant sites into a directory listing. It was some time before they started indexing the web as a whole like Altavista or Google.

Re:pieces of a puzzle...

[odyaws]

One day we may rely on centralized quantum computers that the average Joe won't be able to afford, or maybe won't need to afford. A standardized viewing mechanism could be relied upon, along with keystroke, voice and gesture entry, and a common mechanism for transmitting sound and other media could be defined. Now if the security were managed correctly, you and I could visit our data from any workstation in the world, because the apps and data are all hosted. You could just identify yourself and take control of whatever data and applications are connected to you from wherever you are. Some folks may opt for better interface equipment (speakers!) but the network and processing power would be the same for everyone (and it would be enough).

Um, hasn't this been basically implemented for years in the form of X? I recently finished working on a flight project at NASA JPL, and all of our operations software (custom stuff) was hosted on a Sun network, and we could log in from anywhere (for example, using X11 on my Mac) and access our data and applications. The only issue was speed if there were a lot of graphics, but even that wasn't so bad and will only get better. It was all wonderfully convenient, and allowed me to work from home (or, I hate to say, on vacation) when emergencies arose (frequently) rather than have to go into work at 2AM.

Re:pieces of a puzzle...

[robgamble]

It's been done with Telnet, X-Windows, PC-Anywhere, Citrix and VNC. But not to the extent that I was suggesting.

Your employer hosts *HIS* data and *HIS* applications on a server to which you connect via X. That's a start. You still balance your checkbook at home on your Mac and I still do music production on my PC. But why should we have to duplicate the efforts already required by your employer for backups, power redundancy, routine maintenance, etc.?

I was trying to imagine a scenario where everything that everyone does could be hosted on the same back-end unit. Only with proper security would this work, because your personal data would be sitting on the same physical "server" as my work data, IBM's customer list and Uganda's purchasing system. The benefits of consolidation worldwide would be huge.

It's all very "Matrix", and we have plenty of reasons not to be willing to sign up for such an arrangement today, but one day it could make a lot of sense. Fifty years ago not many people would have guessed that every person in the world can video-conference each other from a global common network. "Um, hasn't this been basically implemented for years in the form of telephone?"... sounds a little short-sighted to me.

Re:pieces of a puzzle...

[hkmwbz]

So let me see if I get this straight... Yahoo, a multi-billion dollar monster of a company, is doing badly? Google surely doesn't want to be a multi-billion dollar company like Yahoo?

Also, when was Yahoo ever big on searches? They were a catalog, not a search engine. Remember how they used Google for their searches?

Sheesh...

[MyLongNickName]

Can't these guys invent something new? They do a lot of good things, but it seems like all they do is embrace a new technology, buy a company, then extend it if they feel the need.

What next? Online e-mail? ;)

Re:Sheesh...

[Anonymous Coward]

Would the mod care to explain how the parent post was "flamebait". How many new products has Google brought to market themselves?

Re:Sheesh...

[Anonymous Coward]

The aqueduct?

Re:Sheesh...

[Anonymous Coward]

And the sanitation.

Re:Sheesh...

[famebait]

Can't these guys invent something new?

Why should they? Their business model so far has been identifying web services that there is a demonstrated demand for, and then doing them better than anyone else. Sometimes internally, sometimes by buying a core and polishing it up to goole standard. There is no reason for them to move into "first mover" territory.

That is best done by startups, and when you look at the alternatives, it is a lot better that they buy the best of the startups rather than just take their idea, do it themselves, and put the small innovators out of business Microsoft-style.

A collaborative reply.

[slashbob22]

Slashpoo^H^H^Hdot:
A collaborati^H^H^Hative environment is the^H^H^H only good if you hate^H^H^H^H trust the people you are working with.

---
I have used my share of realtime collaborative environments. For some reason, someone is always immature enough to start drawing rude pictures or writing pointless statements.

While I realize it isn't always the case, I find that half of the people I collaborate with online are in the same building. Come visit, lets go for a coffee and work on the same document there.

Re:A collaborative reply.

[Anonymous Coward]

8=====D

LOL!

Re:A collaborative reply.

[Anonymous Coward]

For some reason, someone is always immature enough to start drawing rude pictures or writing pointless statements.

I had a mango today for lunch.

Re:A collaborative reply.

[Anonymous Coward]

"I had man goo today for lunch."

Fixed it for you. Now THAT'S collaborating.

Re:A collaborative reply.

[99BottlesOfBeerInMyF]

I have used my share of realtime collaborative environments. For some reason, someone is always immature enough to start drawing rude pictures or writing pointless statements.

I've also used collaborative environments. The most useful has been SubEthaEdit (formerly Hydra). It is just a full featured text editor that auto-discovers documents on the same LAN and allows each user their own insertion point. These two features are really the key to its usefulness. It is a lot easier to collaborate when multiple people can be typing at once in the same document. Auto-discovery of shared files makes connecting user friendly. Google can replicate both of these features in a thin-client word processor and I hope they do. This sort of an easy setup is ideal for programmers, designers, collaborative fiction, and many other tasks and it has been too hard for the average user to achieve for too long. Google can bring this to the masses.

Right Direction

[whois_drek]

This is certainly a step in the right direction. I'm interested in automatic document generation, and it's a coincidence that Peter Norvig gave a talk at a colloquium here at BYU this morning. I asked him if he thought Google would ever get into the business of automatically generating documents using their 500 TB of data as a source (i.e. automatically created Wikipedia articles on any subject). He said no, because of copyright issues and the like, but it'll be interesting to see how "Writely" turns out. It seems like it's a stepping stone to completely automated document generation, and might yield some good ideas.

Re:Compatibility

[NamShubCMX]

You were expecting a "web-office" to work without javascript?

Google's suite...

[sdirrim]

On one hand, this may be an intro into a market in which Google will begin to destroy Microsoft's market share. On the other hand, this could be just the opportunity Microsoft needs to bring Google down. Google and Microsoft will now have products in the same category: Word Processors.

Writely Technology?

[Anonymous Coward]

Writely is based upon ASP.NET.

Will this save them appreciable time? They will have to do a rewrite or be based on Microsoft technology (yeah, right).

Re:Writely Technology?

[pebs]

Writely is based upon ASP.NET.
Will this save them appreciable time? They will have to do a rewrite or be based on Microsoft technology (yeah, right).

I doubt they will do a rewrite. Probably get it running in Mono/Linux if anything. Orkut is written in ASP.Net, but I believe they run it in Mono/Linux.

Re:Writely Technology?

[troytop]

There's a cool demo of a simple web-based word processor done in PHP, Javascript and XUL. It works in Mozilla, Firefox and other Gecko based browsers.

Most of his demo apps are a long way from being usable, but they're good proofs of concept. You can see the source for all the apps here.

I think this kind of thing is really cool. I wouldn't be that crazy about hosting all my office applications and documents with google, but I would love to be able to host all the important apps and documents centrally in housr. No need for Citrix or any remote desktop trickery, you just need a web server and Mozilla based browsers for clients (...and a suite of useful apps obviously)

Re:Writely Technology?

[Anonymous Coward]

Some of those apps are really quite stunning. If he doesn't work for Google, they ought to hire him.

Re:Writely Technology?

[AKAImBatman]

There's a cool demo of a simple web-based word processor done in PHP, Javascript and XUL.

Which is to say, he figured out how to call "document.designMode = 'On';" and use execCommand to make his toolbar buttons work. (The font sizes listed in 1-7 are always a dead giveaway.)

I'm not impressed.

Re:Writely Technology?

[Khalid]

Really cool, thanks for the tip.

I think sooner or later, someone will release a Firefox extension to access Writely, maybe even Google will do it. It sure will more responsive than Ajax.

Re:Writely Technology?

[TheRaven64]

Are they buying the product or the talent? A few years back, Apple bought a small company that made an audio jukebox application. They scrapped the applications and had the developer write a new one learning from his previous experiences. They called this new application iTunes. Google may be doing something similar; buying the company because it gets them people with experience building this kind of application.

Re:Writely Technology?

[troytop]

He's not using "document.designMode = 'On'" or "execCommand" because these don't run on Internet Explorer.

Perhaps you meant that he's figured out how to do essentially the same thing on Mozilla, in which case you may be right (IANAP). The point, for me, is that he's created some usable demos that run from a web page but look and behave like real applications.

Re:Writely Technology?

[AKAImBatman]

He's not using "document.designMode = 'On'" or "execCommand" because these don't run on Internet Explorer.

I find that hard to believe, given that it was invented for Internet Explorer. (That's why the link I posted was to Microsoft.com)

Perhaps you meant that he's figured out how to do essentially the same thing on Mozilla, in which case you may be right (IANAP).

From the source code:

function seteditmode(mode){
    document.getElementById("content").contentDocument .designMode=mode;
}
 
function apply(action,flag,value){
    if(!flag){ flag=false; }
    if(!value){ value=null; }
    document.getElementById("content").contentWindow.d ocument.execCommand(action, flag, value);
}

Here's the Mozilla doc on the same technology. This page explains the origins of the feature.

The point, for me, is that he's created some usable demos that run from a web page but look and behave like real applications.

The notepad is nothing special, but a lot of his other applications would be cool if they were cross platform. Unfortunately, they're not. They're XUL applications designed to work in Mozilla-based environments. i.e. They're not webapps. They're Mozilla platform applications. Which means that he isn't doing all those cool widgets you see. That's Mozilla doing the grunt work, while he runs a bit of demo code on top.

The apps look really nice, though.

P.S. The clock is Flash.

Re:Writely Technology?

[troytop]

Nothing to see here folks.

My bad #1: Meant to say "these *apps* don't run on Internet Explorer."
My bad #2: Looked for a literal "designMode = 'On'" Don't know why I didn't see the execCommand.

I know Mozilla does the heavy lifting here, and it's not strictly speaking a cross-platform webapp, but I still think it's potentially very useful.

P.S. So *that's* what was behind the Flashblock icon.

Re:Writely Technology?

[richlv]

but they should definitley change that screenshot from microsoft internet explorer to firefox. makes me wonder, why it takes them so long ? will it take that long to fix security vulnerabilities, too ? i'm shocked, really.

Re:Writely Technology?

[AKAImBatman]

I know Mozilla does the heavy lifting here, and it's not strictly speaking a cross-platform webapp, but I still think it's potentially very useful.

Mozilla is extremely useful as a cross-OS development platform. The relatively small size of the engine means that it can easily be bundled with a large application. It's also really good for thin client development, as the browser code is designed for interacting with the network. So it does have a lot of uses, just not in the webapp arena. :-)

Best features

[Beuno]

One of the most impressive features of Writely is that it integrates perfectlly with Word and OpenOffice.
From their FAQ:

        * Upload Word documents, OpenOffice, RTF, HTML or text (or create documents from scratch).
        * Use our simple WYSIWYG editor to format your documents, spell-check them, etc.
        * Invite others to share your documents (by e-mail address).
        * Edit documents online with whomever you choose.
        * View your documents' revision history and roll back to any version.
        * Publish documents online to the world, or to just who you choose.
        * Download documents to your desktop as Word, OpenOffice, RTF, PDF*, HTML or zip.
        * Post your documents to your blog.

Re:Best features

[coastin]

Yes, they are also very responsive to their users. I began using Writely when they first rolled out could I could collaborate with my project leader on a technical paper we were writing for publication in a scientific journal. At the time they did not support OpenOffice, but they responded to an e-mail I sent that it was in the works. A few days later it was added to the supported format list. You can also e-mail your text to create a document.

Re:Best features

[eturro]

* Download documents to your desktop as Word, OpenOffice, RTF, PDF*, HTML or zip.

Inside the zip, you can find a document in either Word, OpenOffice, RTF, PDF*, HTML or zip.

And inside that zip, you can find a document in either Word, OpenOffice, RTF, PDF*, HTML or zip.
.
.
.
ad infinitum

Re:Best features

[snwobird122]

As a Writely user, I can assure you that it doesn't integrate perfectly with Word. I have uploaded documents to edit in Writely that have been reformatted quite a bit. The important thing is that it integrates "good enough" so that you can manually fix the reformatting issues and be on your way to sharing your word doc.

No new users for now

[PineHall]

They have stopped taking new users for now. They say that "while we're moving Writely to Google's software architecture, we're closing off new registrations." The integration will take time and effort, and the last thing they need is to be dealing with tons of new users wanting to be a part of the latest Google thing. That was a wise move.

Re:No new users for now

[freehunter]

I use this all the time, I just went and checked to see if all my stuff was still there and I could still log in. I was glad to see I could. And happy to see no one else could ;p

Re:Compatibility

[tehshen]

it requires junk like cookies and javascript

If you care so much as to turn cookies and javascript off (like myself) then you probably would not use an online office suite anyway.

Re:Compatibility

[msbsod]

Why not? I see enough applications of this idea. Just because the technical implementation is bad doesn't mean the whole idea is worthless.

Re:Compatibility

[dedazo]

What would you suggest be used to enable the functionality? ActiveX controls so that it only works with IE? I'm actually curious as to how you think a developer can give you a certain set of functionality with plain HTML.

And what kind of idiot mods my posting about a software compatibility issue as flamebait?

Well, I'll wait for your response but I'm leaning towards "-1, Ignorant".

Re:Compatibility

[Anonymous Coward]

Please, do explain how exactly you'd implement anything like a word processor in a browser without cookies and javascript. Perhaps we should only us IE and Active X.

My guess is that you got "flamebait" because there wasn't an "ignorant" option.

Re:Compatibility

[sglane81]

In other words, it requires junk like cookies and javascript, and it does not function with every web browser not with every operating system.

Hate to break it to ya, but HTTP is a stateless protocol. That means that it wasn't designed for user sessions. Therefore, cookies were created as a workaround. Granted some browsers and websites have abused them in the past. If you enjoy not having to put in a username and password in every single time you hit a new page, then you will have to deal with this.

HTML is a limited markup language. It was not initially designed for user interaction (forms came in a later revision). Therefore, we have JavaScript for client side user interaction and events. This means you don't have to wait every time you click a button. Instant gratification if you will.

If you want to blame the creater of the content for not supporting every client known to man, go right ahead, but keep in mind each of these clients had the choice to be built on the standards. "Web Standards" is probably the most disregarded type of standard. <personal rant>Cisco/Foundry don't exactly write to the standards when it comes to implementing telnet servers, but what can you do?</personal rant>

Love 'em or hate 'em, Javascript and cookies make your life easier.

Re:Compatibility

[tehshen]

I was not saying that the idea was worthless. People who turn off Javascript and cookies do so because it is annoying - ads, long page loads, and privacy issues, to name a few. An office suite like this will incorporate all of these, and would not be liked by said people.

If you don't turn off Javascript and cookies, then you are more likely to use an online office suite and would not be affected by browser issues. k?

ActiveX instead?

[truthsearch]

So instead of Javascript would you prefer ActiveX? Basically you have to pick one.

Re:ActiveX instead?

[msbsod]

This is technical nonsense. Just because you have been told that these are your only options does not mean it is true. I am sure you believe the whole web would not function anymore without AJAX, javascript, java, Macromedia flush, Active X, you name it.

Re:ActiveX instead?

[AKAImBatman]

This is technical nonsense. Just because you have been told that these are your only options does not mean it is true.

So answer the question people are putting in front of you. How do you plan to offer a rich text editor on the order of Microsoft Word without using JavaScript to manipulate the DOM? Keep in mind that the browser Rich Text Editing control is dependent on JavaScript for operation.

Go ahead, tell us. We're listening very closely at the moment. Your answer will mark you as either as an amazing genius or technologically ignorant. If you attempt to evade the issue (like you've been doing), the mods will simply assume you're troll. (As will everyone else.)

Re:ActiveX instead?

[truthsearch]

LOL!!! You know less about web standards than Microsoft!

Please enlighten us. What HTML 4 form tag inherently gives us WYSIWYG without javascript?

Re:ActiveX instead?

[msbsod]

http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2006/03/writely-so. html
"Writely, a collaborative word processor that runs in a web browser."
WYSIWYG is nice, but is it the most important thing for a collaborative word processor that runs in a web browser? Maybe for you. Compatibility and simplicity is more important for me.

Re:ActiveX instead?

[Anonymous Coward]

How does Writely's WYSIWYG experience help you if you use Opera or Safari? As the original message indicates, and the Writely.com web page, too, neither of these browsers are supported and most likely they won't.
Please enlighten us.

Re:ActiveX instead?

[AKAImBatman]

And again, you've avoided the question. You sir, are a troll. (Mods, please mod accordingly.)

Unless you can do better than "use forms", I think this topic is pretty much closed.

Re:ActiveX instead?

[Musc]

I don't think you know what a 'word processor' is.
A word processor is a text editor that lets you apply formatting without forcing the user to type
markup.

Are you suggesting that we simply type HTML into web forms, and call that a 'word processor'?

Under your definition, is vi+latex a 'word processor'?

Is this Comment box I'm typing in to make this post a 'word processor'?
I think it is this issue that is bothering people about your comments.

beta

[imess]

From the article: "To be clear, Writely is still in beta...

I guess we all know that without someone making it clear...

What's old is new...

[ferd_farkle]

"a collaborative word processor that runs in a web browser"

This sort of app is awfully reminiscent of The World Wide Web, written by Tim Berners-Lee at Cern a while back. Anything ever come of that...?

Re:What's old is new...

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't you mean Al Gore?

Re:Compatibility

[Anonymous Coward]

well, you could use the good old object tag and ole to open an instance of microsoft word in the browser. then use microsoft's wonderful networking options to save your document to an ftp site. then viola, you have a wysiwyg editor in a web browser. of course, you'd still need a license for word but that's out of the scope of the parent's post.

best quote

[matt4077]

It's true -- everyone told us it was crazy to try and give people a way to access their documents from anywhere -- not to mention share documents instantly, or collaborate online within their browsers

She sounds like Napoleon after starting the war against russia, or maybe Einstein telling someone time is relative and space is bent.

Oh my GOD, sharing DOCUMENTS??? REVOLUTION! Someone call Nobel. He has TO GIVE HER A PRICE.

Re:best quote

[PitaBred]

$0.02?

Re:best quote

[Anonymous Coward]

I tend to come across at least one idiot a day.
Today you are that idiot.

Re:best quote

[joranbelar]

Oh my GOD, sharing DOCUMENTS??? REVOLUTION! Someone call Nobel. He has TO GIVE HER A PRICE.

OK. $699 and she's yours.

Re:Compatibility

[msbsod]

I see absolutely no connection between someone's desire to use javascript or cookies and someone's desire to use an online office suite.

gOffice.com

[Palal]

Another alternative to M$ is gOffice.com

Re:Compatibility

[Anonymous Coward]

You just shattered his dream of selling textarea to Google for millions of dollars.

Enjoy kicking puppies too?

Re:Compatibility

[Library Spoff]

Instant Gratification takes too long....

Re:Compatibility

[Neil Blender]

At the very, very least, you need javascript for simple form error checking. Sure you could send all the data back to your server, error check it there and rerender the page with a warning stuck in the right place. Why wouldn't you use javascript to do something like alert("You did not enter an email address"). And other than checking server-side, how would you suggest doing it without javascript?

Do you login to Slashdot everytime you post or visit? I kind of like not having to. How would you do that with cookies?

I agree about flash though. Its use should be minimized and not used as the primary environment.

Writely pros + cons

[Damana Mathos]

I've used Writely for about 5 months now. Obviously I like it, but what I see as the pros + cons are:

Pros
* Good, clean user interface
* Access documents from anywhere (main reason I use it)
* Don't lose your documents if your PC dies
* Sharing documents is good when planning things in groups

Cons
* Privacy issues
* Not as feature rich as Word

Privacy wasn't really a concern of mine, mainly because the documents I work on aren't highly confidential -- I'm not writing down my PIN numbers and not plotting evil plans. ;) If you're not doing those, then it just becomes a trade-off between privacy and convenience.

Features I'd like them to add include: user-defined styles, ability to copy/paste graphics, and improved table layouts. So far though, it's pretty good.

In other words, check it out once it's open again. ;)

Re:Writely pros + cons

[Anonymous Coward]

While Writely is down you can have a look at www.e-nnovate.com -- they offer some similar functionality.

Re:Compatibility

[tehshen]

Okay, simple example.

Someone turns off cookies for privacy reasons - so sites, especially advertisers, do not get any information from you.
Using an online office suite where your documents are stored on a server far away from you goes directly against that.

Re:Compatibility

[Anonymous Coward]

What kind of idiot would ask such stupid question? Of course, it works, just not in your little hemisphere!
Besides, the parent post points out obvious issues with Writely.

Writely Vs Word

[highwaytohell]

Is this an attempt for Google to compete with Microsoft in word processing? Because as cool as this may be, it's going to be mighty difficult to topple Microsoft in that department. The Office Suite is so embedded in the corporate world and homes that garnering support for this product will be difficult at best. People know how to use Word. The majority won't want to go to something else that is new and shiny. CIO's won't take the risk of switching over to a new system when they already have a tried and tested system in place.

Microsoft already whipped most opposition to it. Also, after development is this going to be free or is the consumer going to end up paying for the privelege?

It appears more and more apparent that Google is basing their business model on Microsoft (acquire and re-badge).

I'd love to see Google actually take the fight to Microsoft on something that Microsoft has not traditionally been strong at and show them how it should be done. Show them that they are innovaters and not just tagging along on already established software. Trying and compete with them on this front is almost a lost cause.

Re:Writely Vs Word

[Damana Mathos]

Google's key strength is server-centric services, and I think it will continue to lead in this area.

The key question is -- do you think we are moving to a server-centric world? For 20 years the home PC has been the key focus, but as broadband (always on) connections become ubiquitous and speeds increase, the disadvantages of doing things server-side declines.

My view is that we are moving towards a world where more things reside server-side, and Google will lead in this area.

For businesses, I think they'd embrace a server-driven application that was hosted in-house. Given Google provides enterprise search in this form, I don't think it's a stretch to imagine them offering a application suite that's hosted within the business down the track, while also providing online versions for individuals (or businesses that want to use them.)

Re:Writely Vs Word

[WhiteWolf666]

I'd love to see Google actually take the fight to Microsoft on something that Microsoft has not traditionally been strong at and show them how it should be done. Show them that they are innovaters and not just tagging along on already established software. Trying and compete with them on this front is almost a lost cause.

How about:

Search (Google>MSN or Windows Live)
E-mail (Gmail>Hotmail)
Desktop Search (G. Desktop>Windows Indexing Service. We'll see about Vista)
Corporate Intranet Search (Google Enterprise>WDS Enterprise)
What about Google Scholar, or Google Answers?
What about Google Wifi?

Google's good at search. Really good. They've made a LOT of money with search, and "search" technologies are the kind of thing you can integrate into most any application, and cross-applications as well.

Thus, when Google wants to compete with Microsoft, why bother building a new solution, when they can purchase a company that builds a great solution, but is financially incapable of competing with Microsoft?

Buy Keyhole. Add Search.
Buy Hello+Picassa. Add Search.
Buy Blogger. Add Search.
Build on Jabber. Add Search.

See the trend?

Add a program to the Google palette, make it interoperate with the other Google apps, and move on.

Writely is a nice product. It produces Word and OpenOffice.org compatible output. It's a good enough wordprocessor for 99% of people. And as a web app, Google can integrate it into Gmail, Blogger, hell, Google Talk. Add in search. Add in online storage.

See the Google strategy?

Of course, you've got to be able to run your web apps on browsers, and if MS dominates the browser market, that could get risky. Then again, one might wonder why Google funds Mozilla and Opera. Note that there isn't ANYTHING fishy going on here; Firefox (and Opera) give Google search referrals, and Google pays them. It's entirely straightforward, non-binding, and easy to change by the user.

As soon as I get the opporunity, I'm switching my company to an online Office solution. Sure; you can use your own Office desktop if you like. But most people, who don't need the fancy Office (OpenOffice.org) features will be okay using Writely.

A clutch feature for me will be if writely has excellent ODTDOC conversion. Then I can switch our file format, too.

But I don't think its fair to critize Google for staying with its core abilities. Google is a search company (or started as one, anyways). Google's developers are brilliant, but there is no reason for Google to launch a completely new app if there are other talented developers out there doing the same thing. Either buy 'em out, or co-develop with them. You don't always have to be evil and use the embrace->extend model in order to win. I think Google is winning the battle v. Microsoft in an entirely "good" way.

Re:Writely Vs Word

[tumbaumba]

Google can integrate it into Gmail, Blogger, hell,...

Google has offices in Hell?

Re:Writely Vs Word

[imess]

Windows's Indexing Service is actually available to 2000 and XP users. I haven't seen any comparison to GDS though

Re:Writely Vs Word

[jrockway]

The Googleplex is in Mountain View, California. :)

Re:Writely Vs Word

[DerekLyons]

Google's good at search. Really good. They've made a LOT of money with search, and "search" technologies are the kind of thing you can integrate into most any application, and cross-applications as well.

Google has made almost *no* money from search. They do however make scads and scads of money from the ads they place on their search pages - and elsewhere.

Google's current business model is based on serving up advertisements. Search, Gmail, Maps, etc... etc.. only serve as means to attract eyeballs to ads.

Re:Writely Vs Word

[tumbaumba]

The Googleplex is in Mountain View, California. :)

I know that. I was wandering however if they opened branch in Hell or something. :)

Re:Writely Vs Word

[Anonymous Coward]

hold on there buddy, in no way is Google Desktop anywhere near as good as Windows Dekstop Search.

intergration

[Art_Charlatan]

I wonder if this means that I can now post to my blogger site directly from Writely. I've had Writely for a month now and still have never gotten it work like it says it will. Since they are both google properties I hope they get that fixed sooner now.

Re:intergration

[Khalid]

I am pretty sure this is their intention. They say they want to integrate it into the Google infrastructure, that probably means that you will also be able to compose you Gmail mails in Writely and post to your Blog in Blogger too.

Re:Compatibility

[Anonymous Coward]

Ahhh. Well, all you have to do is create an office package that uses nothing but HTML and will work on all browsers, and the world will pay you more than BG.

Mentions "secure" several times, but no SSL!

[rklrkl]

What I really don't like about Writely (apart from the fact that you really don't want to upload/type in anything confidential into it!) is that it makes a big deal about security:

* Home page says "Store your documents securely online."

* Sign-in page says "Simple & secure document collaboration and publishing"

So if it's so secure, why isn't SSL used *anywhere* on the site? The even more strange thing is that there is a secure cert on the site at https://www.writely.com/ but nothing actually links to it...ho hum. Yes, you can indeed login via SSL if you want - apparently they're worried about server load if they made SSL the default... Maybe with the Google infrastructure behind them, they can turn on SSL by default?

Re:Mentions "secure" several times, but no SSL!

[WhiteWolf666]

Most likely.

People bitch about Google not doing anything innovative, but I think Google does what it does best, and buys the rest of the expertise it needs.

Google runs big servers. Really big.
Google does search. Really well.
Google stores data. Lots of data.

Applications like Writely stand to do really, really well as part of the Google Arsenal. Google can give them the technological back end support (not to mention programmer dollars) to get the project moving.

Re:Mentions "secure" several times, but no SSL!

[AnyoneEB]

Sure, right after Google turns on SSL by default for GMail.

Re:Mentions "secure" several times, but no SSL!

[Anonymous Coward]

>People bitch about Google not doing anything innovative, but I think Google does what it does best, and buys the rest of the expertise it needs.

Your examples do not give any innovative.

Google build a huge data cluster to store everything in thw world. That
is the only expertise they have. Okay they have done it well, but it is
not rocket science.

Large websites all store huge amounts of data and give a realiable user experience
e.g yahoo, amazon, myspace etc..

Let see something truely innovative from the Google engineers.

Re:Mentions "secure" several times, but no SSL!

[Anonymous Coward]

Just bookmark https://gmail.google.com/

It never leaves SSL after that (in my experience).

Re:Mentions "secure" several times, but no SSL!

[Wolfier]

Mostly likely their use of "Secure" means "You won't lose it"

Re:Mentions "secure" several times, but no SSL!

[AnyoneEB]

Yeah, I know. I also have the Customize Google FireFox extension set to change it to HTTPS if I somehow accidently go to HTTP (which is a bit hard with the yellow address bar for HTTPS).

But my point was that it is not default. I am only using HTTPS because I know about it and choose to use it. If there was no CPU usage problem with serving HTTPS pages to many users, then Google would default to HTTPS and only provide HTTP to browsers without HTTPS support (which are quite rare).

Re:Compatibility

[dedazo]

Microsoft ActiveX was never a necessity for the web.

Correct.

Neither were cookies or javascript.

Wrong.

Same about Macromedia flash etc

I don't know about "etc", but you're right about Flash.

It is all about the ignorance

Thank you, yes.

And you seem to be one of those poor minds.

Right. So it's unfortunate that you're getting hit by mods at the moment (I'd rather they wait until you really dig yourself into the hole), but as I said, I'd really like to be enlightened. Tell us how you would develop an online office system without cookies or JavaScript. Just plain HTML.

Google, the perfect data source for intelligence

[spacefight]

Am I the only one, who thinks, that Google as a whole is becoming the best data source for intelligence agencies? Poeple search, read books, find products, read news, read and send email, post classifieds, read and post to newsgroups, look for friends on orkut, blog on blogger, I can hardly finish... Is it so difficult, to draw such a very bad picture of Google being one of the best targets for an intelligence agency? I mean, those organisations know how to bring their people into a trusted circle...

Re:Compatibility

[Anonymous Coward]

This is /. 99% of the replies here come from little creatures who believe hype. They buy the Javascript and ActiveX books. They buy every BS.

i foresee

[know1]

this as a first attempt at killing microsofts software market. first go for the big cash cow - office, then the operating system after. google hasn't messed up yet so microsoft have good reason to be scared.
somewhere in redmond a chair is flying.

They already have lots of "products" in common

[cbreaker]

Wait, which one of them doesn't do Searching, Web News, Web Mail, Online Mapping, and Image Searching?

Because if Word Processors are the only thing they compete on, something else must have changed.

Check out Spore

[willy_me]

6-Online Sales ?7?-Games?? (is this a possibility down the line) A large sector with big potential

Check out spore. Ok, so it's not from Google, but it is hosted on their page. I'm posting this link because it just looks like such a cool idea.

Willy

Lacks tab stops even

[bradleyland]

I'd list a lot more cons than that. I've been using Writely for a while also. I experimented with it as a means to document customer networks on the go, but decided that security is too much of a concern for sensitive data. As a word processor, it lacks some very basic elements, such as tab stops. The problem is that this type of functionality can be very difficult to emulate using native browser widgets. The interface is also very buggy. I regularly run into unexpected behavior when editing documents.

I think the idea is really cool, but when Google says that this product is in Beta, they really mean it this time.

Re:Compatibility

[Cecil]

Here is an HTML chat client without Javascript. Here is an HTML chat client with Javascript. Javascript not required? Maybe if you really enjoy the stone age it's not required. Otherwise, yes, it is required and you'd be retarded not to use it.

Re:It's in beta? Great.

[ForteMaster]

"Unless these guys are on the case."

"At Google, we know."

[zenwarrior]

Google:

          We know what you have. (You've indexed your hard drives.)
          We know where you [and family] live. (All mark their homes on Google Maps.)
          We know who you like; we know who you hate. (Chat & e-mail.)
          We know what you buy. (Let's be frugal.)
          We know where you go. (What's happening G-locally?)
          We know when you sleep; when you awaken. (Usage analysis.)
          And now, we know virtually all your thoughts & plans. (Using Writely?)

Motto: At Google, your world is our world.

Re:"At Google, we know."

[user32.ExitWindowsEx]

that sounds familiar...like the santa claus song

so is google santa claus?

Santa Claus is coming to town
He sees you when you're sleeping
He knows when you're awake
He knows if you've been bad or good
So be good for goodness sake!
O! You better watch out!
You better not cry
Better not pout
I'm telling you why
Santa Claus is coming to town
Santa Claus is coming to town

Re:"At Google, we know."

[gad_zuki!]

> We know when you sleep; when you awaken. (Usage analysis.)

How to configure Firefox to discard google's tracking cookie here.

Re:"At Google, we know."

[sane?]

Google, your world is our world.

You just might be right. You did see this whiteboard of Google's plans for world domination via mind control?

I want me a Google Dyson Sphere.

Re:"At Google, we know."

[zenwarrior]

Thanks for pointing it out. But remember, I did not need to see it given I am /.'s Psychic In Residence. :)

Onenote

[mazzarin]

Is this just web based MS OneNote? I fail to see the value.

Re:Google's suite... Suits Google Fine...

[davidsyes]

Imagine this:

Papers: Wallstreet disappointed in ms share erosion due to Google products being releases one after another...

ms: (Chortling) We'll reverse our losses! We'll BUY GOOGLE!

Papers: In a stunning REversal, ms share price rises..

(2 days later)

Papers: For the first time, a company refusing to be bought out publicly stated before journalists: FUCK YOU microsoft!

(1 hour later)

Papers: In a stunning TRAversal, Wallstreet HAMMERS the shit out of ms shares... ...

In other news... Dove was found to contain not one-quarter moisturizing cream, but one QUART compressed moisturizing cream...

Re:Compatibility

[Serpent Mage]

Right. So it's unfortunate that you're getting hit by mods at the moment (I'd rather they wait until you really dig yourself into the hole), but as I said, I'd really like to be enlightened. Tell us how you would develop an online office system without cookies or JavaScript. Just plain HTML.
I'm sure he could. It just wouldn't have any kind of nice spell checking is all.

Oh and it wouldn't have any kind of document save capability in case of sudden power or network outage.

Oh and it wouldn't be able to allow collaboration of users on the same document.

Oh and it would create so much load to the servers when you have gmail style userbase that even google would croak.

But other then that, yeah it is entirely possible to create an online office system that works without cookies or javascript. It is all about how much functionality you are willing to live without.

I mean gmail has a totally non-javascript solution as well but it just is missing most of the cool functionality that we have grown to love it for and looks like a total piece of crap as well. Also according to google (can't find the report link) they predict that if ajax solution wasn't in place they could not handle the load that they have now for people who use gmail the way they do.

Re:Compatibility

[TomRitchford]

I'm very curious as to how you would accomplish such a thing without using Javascript? (Hint -- doing it with a Java Applet would be Very Hard(tm).)

What I don't get is..

[Anonymous Coward]

Why didn't Google write it's own online word processor, instead of buying an ASP.NET written website ?

Re:It's in beta? Great.

[Anonymous Coward]

At least they managed to take http://web.archive.org/web/19981202230410/http://w ww.google.com/> out of beta

linux...

[stuuf]

We've heard from some folks who run Writely running on Linux, but don't support it because there have been too many problems with it.

Writely FAQ (Emphasis added). Looks like they'll fit in just right at Google.

Alarmist Troll

[Anonymous Coward]

I may be just be over paranoid. Ok I am I admit it.

If google had remained a private company then maybe I would trust them with my data. However, a slogan of 'do no evil' is simply not enough to disguise an emotionless corporation from what it is: a way for shareholders to make money over time.

Thus, I will be damned before I trust them with my data, install their browser bar on my machines, or make use of their upcoming 'free' storage. This is exactly the direction that George Orwell had the forsight to predict in 1984: the way the world's data (and history), and world communications, and networking would go.

I hope I am wrong, but the simple truth is that a court order puts all of this 'do no evil' corporation's nickers at a government's fingertips. Ben Franklin, George Washington, and Thomas Jefferson taught us that governments can never be trusted. Even the existence of this kind of private data in such a convenient package should be prevented. As I said, I'm paranoid. Are you?

-AC

Re:Alarmist Troll

[vardhman]

I don't get it, Is google forcing you to upload ur docs to writely or automatically doing it from their Google Desktop like tool without informing you ? If you are cautituos about your data why would you even try this kind of service? There are many on the otherhand who would be looking forward for such a service. If only they made this service paid with subscription fee most people wouldn't see any privacy concerns, this is the philosophy if they are providing it for free there must be some catch. When Gmail came ppl had all kinds of issues, finally all of them are gone, how would someone be sure that other email services don't READ your mails content as google does ? Just because Google tells you they do you have problem with them. My 2 cents of advice is Don't put your sensitive content on net for public access, if you do, Neither Google nor Microsoft or any one else can save you. If you can do without the service why not keep quite?

Re:Alarmist Troll

[Anonymous Coward]

You're NOT paranoid. There is reason to be concerned. Unfortunately, however, here on /. most of the geeks have drank the Google/Linux/Apple Kool-Aid, and any negative metion of these companies and their products immediately makes you a troll, a loser, a tin foil hat wearer, etc.
I, too, don't trust Google or MS or Yahoo for that matter. I store nothing online. I use webmail, but have no info stored therein in terms of my address, etc. If they want it, they can subpoena my ISP for it, and at least then I'll know they want/have it.
People have no clue of the security ramifications of services like Google. I work in IT security for a major security company. I can tell you from experience there are issues that crop up everyday because of Google. Surf wisely, use GPL'd software, and enjoy your freedom. Google seeks nothing more than to catalog and control the world's searchable information. I have a fundamental problem with Google and so should anyone who values their freedom. There will come a day when the geeks that really value their freedom will leave Google in droves when someone gets a fat subpoena to acquire their emails. Google doesn't want you to delete you email for a reason. MS as well. Having a large inbox quota is rather a dangerous thing, not a positive thing.

Re:It's in beta? Great.

[borganha]

Google is much beta now. Very happy.

Coming in Moodle 1.6

[MichaelPenne]

From Mark Aliers team. Gives you a wiki with access control, wysiwyg, and all that cool wiki stuff.

Actually there is a wysiwyg wiki in Moodle now, but the new one is better:-).

Get the beta here, (get 1.6 for the wiki) :

And tell Google to hire us all, I mean shouldn't google have an LMS too?

Beta

[paullyjunge]

"To be clear, Writely is still in beta..

So it will go great with the rest of Google's Betas?

Re:Compatibility

[Anonymous Coward]

There is also a new Bullshit Generator around.

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Re:It's in beta? Great.

[iced_773]

Fixed your link:

http://web.archive.org/web/19981202230410/www.goog le.com

That's pretty interesting, though. A time before Google was mainstream, back when we searched the web with AltaVista or Excite or Infoseek.

Everything starts in beta. We just tend to forget that when we use things so much.

is there an online html editor like this?

[walterbyrd]

Something like FCKeditor that I can run from anywhere?

Re:is there an online html editor like this?

[MarkWatson]

Try my little 3 evening hack: http://kbdocs.com/

One caveate: I only do periodic backups, so you might want to occasionally use the export feature to generate local backups on your computer.

Re:is there an online html editor like this?

[Spliffster]

i'd recommend tinyMCE: http://tinymce.moxiecode.com/. a true XHTML editor, works with mozilla 1.3+ (FF1+) and IE5.5+ and probably opera soon. it slim, cleanly programmed, modular and standards compliant. i have done a lot of research about html wysiwyg editors running in browsers and most of them are just a mess (code wise).

Re:Google, the perfect data source for intelligenc

[dfj225]

Sure Google is a good source of intelligence...if you want to find out what the average person does in the average day. It seems really doubtful that any terrorist would use Google or other unencrypted web services to send such sensitive data. It has been shown that terrorists have adapted to not using cell phones or other easily tapped forms of communication.

Sure Google's data may be interesting to the government for different reasons, but I doubt it would be a good source of intelligence related to terrorism or military actions.

To inter == to bury

[tepples]

tool that translated English "internet" into German "beerdigen Netz"

For those playing at home: clue #1 | clue #2

Re:To inter == to bury

[Petrushka]

Thanks. I guess I should have explained, but somehow a private joke seems funnier ... apologies :-)

"be my guest..."

[cyfer2000]

And offer me some help also please.

Re:Compatibility

[jrockway]

> Do you login to Slashdot everytime you post or visit? I kind of like not having to. How would you do that with [sic] cookies?

Maybe how slashdot does it, with the "You can automatically log in by clicking This Link and bookmarking the resulting page. This is totally insecure, but very convenient."

"This Link" is available on your user preferences page.

Retraining from Word to markup?

[tepples]

WYSIWYG is nice, but is it the most important thing for a collaborative word processor that runs in a web browser? Maybe for you.

People used to local rich-text editors, such as Microsoft Word or other WYSIWYG word processors, are not going to want to have to retrain themselves to use wiki-markup or some sort of SGML or XML application to edit a document.

Compatibility and simplicity is more important for me.

Rich text editing is more compatible with skills acquired through years of use of local rich-text editors. It's also simpler for people who have used local rich-text editors to adapt to Web rich-text editing than to adapt to markup editing. Notice that Dreamweaver still sells even though Notepad is included on every Windows machine.

I wrote something similar, but simpler

[MarkWatson]

I wrote http://kbdocs.com/ for my own use last year, then decided to make it public. KBdocs is simple (about a 3 evening hack) : styled text editing, tags, and export for local word-processing. As an experiment, I wrote KBdocs twice: once in Java+JSPs+POJOs and once using Ruby on Rails - I bounced from one implementation to the other as an experiment comparing Rails vs. Java development. A simplified copy of my Rails rKBdocs is a little example program in a new Ruby book that I am writing.

Re:Compatibility

[Anonymous Coward]

our most popular "web-office" is called slashdot and requires no javascript

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[account_deleted]

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And This Is New?

[T_O_M]

Any old editor / word processor / application: $$
VNC: Free
Cooperative whatever: Priceless

Re:Compatibility

[Neil Blender]

Maybe how slashdot does it, with the "You can automatically log in by clicking This Link and bookmarking the resulting page. This is totally insecure, but very convenient."

No, it doesn't. For one, click that link and bookmark the resulting page, log out and use the bookmark. It won't log you back in because the link redirects you to index.pl. You can right click the link and bookmark the actual link and that will work. However, if you turn of cookies it will not work. In fact, you cannot log in to slashdot with cookies turned off. Slashdot deposits about 15 cookies on your machine when you log in (probably mostly your preferences since it doesn't want to hit the database everytime you click a link). You can still post under a username if you are not logged in, but you have to enter your username and password. If you do a preview, you will appear to be logged in, but once you post you will not be logged in.

One of the only real alternatives to not using cookies but being able to log in and stay logged in under a user name is to use Apache's user authentication. The downside is, that ugly box pops up and you can be either a user and be logged in, or you can't view the site at all. Plus, Apache's authentication does not provide a "log out" method other than completely quiting the browser.

Cookies and javascript make the web go round. Flash, well the only thing I really like flash for is embedded movies. It's absolutely the most crossplatform method to view video online. Other than that, it should be banned.

By the way, I shut cookies off to post this. Try it, it's a pain in the ass if you do a few previews.

Re:Compatibility

[GregJames]

Has anyone ever used Gmail with a Norton firewall? It actually asks you to allow Google's ads! I can just see the MS paperclip throwing spam at you and underlining keywords with XHTML or javascript...

where?

[tabby]

I'm sorry but our business's secret internal planning & development documents are where exactly?

I don't see too many businesses jumping on the online office suite bandwagon.

Revision management...

[mikelang]

...seems better than that of OpenOffice?

When do we see an Excel-like application?

[Bushido Hacks]

This is definitely one step towards the right direction. (Take notes Microsoft! Here's where you get schooled!) I just hope it doesn't turn Blogger into Google Page Creator (which oddly enough for a Google application sucks).

While Writely gets settle in, whats the status on the Google Calendar?

Good for Google and good for us

[RealBeanDip]

I knew this was going to happen... I'm glad it did too.

I've been using writely for about a month and trying to get as many friends and colleagues to as well. Writely is very cool and useful. I was concerned though that I would use it to create things that I didn't save locally and at some point writely would go out of business or start charging actual money for their service.

Now I don't have to worry (as much). Adding a google search into my documents will be extremely useful also!

I hope they start accepting new users again soon. I see you can still add collaborators even if they don't have an account, so it's sort of invite only at this point.

It's like a corporate Star Wars

[randyjg2]

God, am I enjoying this Microsoft Google war. Nasty, underhanded politics, brilliant countermoves, played across a backdrop of the whole world.

And a surprise ending...

My guess/prediction for how this all ends:

We are about a year away from a free, OSS version of Office/WebOffice that needs nothing but Tomcat and it will blow both sides away.

And the new, reconstituted and invigorated AT&T offers it as a commercial service, complete with portal/collaborative groupware (including hi def video conferencing) that runs across their secure, internal network, not the wide open internet (in reality, it's mostly the same network), and network storage at their central exchanges.

And then they announce that AT&T has bought Novell, enhanced SuSE with secret Unix projects they have been developing for 20 years, and is offering a production grade commercial Linux backed by thousands of AT&T business services experts in every neighborhood in America.

And a grid based, peer to peer, search engine with advanced NORA text mining capabilities, just so Google won't feel left out.

And, of course, their new LightSpeed (tm) video on demand network. now available in every home in America, complete with micro targeted ad's and FlexTime (tm) media sales policy, and with Web and teleworker based multimedia contact center integration.

And, riding atop a rising tide of nationalism, announce that AT&T is an American company, that has never been accused of collaborating with China, unlike Microsoft and Google, and is dedicated to making America competitive again.

I almost forgot, in the end, AT&T buys both Microsoft and Google for 10 cents a share.

Its gonna make an incredible movie someday. AT&T's deathstar like logo emerging like a sunrise behind the entire planet would be the perfect final scene.

Bet everyone forgot all about good old AT&T, right? You really thought all the RBOC's would merge and then just sit quietly by the sidelines?

Google Life

[DemonWeeping]

I wrote a bit of an essay about this and how eventually Google can revolutionize mobile computing.
The essay is here.

Here's the intro:
I am in New York on vacation. I've never been there before and don't know where to go or what to do. I'm in the mood for a cup of coffee now, fine Italian meal tonight, and a concert tomorrow. I fire up my Nokia 770 tablet. It peers with my cell phone and pocket GPS receiver over Bluetooth, finds my location, and loads the Google Life site. I quickly tap in "coffee shop" and it suggests several coffee shops within walking distance. One is tagged with free WiFi access and has good reviews from other visitors, so I walk over.

Once settled in, I disconnect the cell phone connection and attach to the free WiFi. While sipping my triple-shot Mocha, I look over concerts playing this weekend. It seems that there are tickets still available for one of my favorite musicians. I book the tickets and add the information to my calendar, then confirm my hotel reservations, decide on a restaurant for tonight, and see if there's anything else interesting nearby. It's my lucky day: there's going to be a free Shakespeare play in the park a half mile away in about an hour.

This mocha is REALLY good. I have some time to kill: I think I'll write a positive review of this cafe.

I got writely and I can invite people

[Anonymous Coward]

who wants it? email me for it! ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh [at @] G Mail [dot .] com and I'll send you an invite, but only if you will invite your friends/colleagues too!