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Hotmail On Your Desktop
thomas2you writes "Microsoft has just started its beta testing on a new program, made to have Microsoft's hotmail on your own desktop according to an article on CNET. It's going to be free software, you're going to be able to manage multiple accounts and they are attempting to include the ability to also just control all pop3 and smtp accounts you have, including Google's gmail as well as Windows Live Mail, the successor to Hotmail. From the article, 'The move is a shift for the Hotmail business, which in the past, has charged users who wanted to read their mail using desktop software, rather than a Web browser. Microsoft charged $20 and up for its paid service.'"
You might not have known this but there's already a tool out there that lets you connect and check mail from AOL, Libero, Gmail, MailDotCom, Lycos, Yahoo and (the seemingly "impossible") Hotmail. It's called Thunderbird with the Webmail extension. In fact, I'm pretty sure that there's even a Webmail plugin for Firefox that would allow you to check it automatically through your browser.
So when I saw the headline of "Hotmail On Your Desktop" I thought to myself, "So what?" I pulled up Thunderbird and there it was, Hotmail on my desktop. Am I some sort of sorcerer? No, but if this is news then I must have madd haXX0rz skillz to be able to do this when it's not possible. Or perhaps it's just another lame Slashdot article brought to us by a Microsoft employee that encouraged samzenpus to post it with a nominal paypal transaction? I'm not implying anything, of course...
But I suppose now, you have a choice:
- Check your Hotmail (and Gmail and Windows Life Mail) through a new proprietary (malware issues?) client that will most likely bombard you with advertisements or
- Check your Hotmail (and many other mail systems) through good old Thunderbird with no advertisements and source code that you can alter yourself if you ever feel the need to.
Pretty tough choice...Remember, Microsoft owns Hotmail and, according to the article: That's right, "other Web-based services as well" like the following possibilities:
- The "Genuine Advantage" checker Web-based service. There to report you for anything you've done to Windows that in any way violates the EULA you blindly clicked during the install.
- Microsofty Ads! The Web-based service that brings advertisements to your desktop so that you can get all the cool new Microsoft products cheaper!
- Member Updates. The client application that annoyingly pops up in the bottom right of your screen as a paper clip to alert you of cool new Microsoft products!
- The Blue Screen of Death inducer--a service that allows Microsoft to trigger your machine remotely to BSOD on you. Why try to recover from an error when you can just reboot?
- The Friendly Survey Service, a program that just tallies up what you got on your machine and phones home to Microsoft so Mr. Gates can have charts presented to him that realistically show the threat of OOo against Office.
- Et cetera...
Yeah, I pretty much can't wait to install something on my machine that's going to be a catalyst for other Microsoft programs.My work here is dung.
Define "free".
Realistically, I would imagine that it's a teaser that will be Vista only, or will only be fully featured on Vista.
Sadly, I stopped using Hotmail when they discontinued support for the Outlook plugin. I think it was a bad decision on their part.
-Arthur
Cave ne ante ullas catapultas ambules
Finally!
Swedish plasma phys. PhD student; MSc EE; knows maths, programming, electronics; finance interest; seeks opportunities
Lacking <sarcasm> tags,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gotmail
You can use it with any mail client. Without any favor from Microsoft
it's = it is
its = possessive
you're = you are
your = possessive
According to the table (from clicking the image in the article), Windows Live Services will include "Windows Live Favorites" which is listed as having no competitors. Isn't del.icio.us a competitor?
Did they start charging for Outlook Express 6?
I've been using hotmail since the late nineties and guess what my space is at now: Same as what it was then (2 mb). That's right, I have 2 mb of storage space. Gmail has 2-3 GB (I've lost track) and my POP mail client (Opera) has as much as my PC. Does hotmail have ANYTHING going for it any more?
Send email from the afterlife! Write your e-will at Dead Man's Switch.
I stopped using hotmail years back mostly because their spam situation was insane I could create I new hotmail account and without signing up for anything of giving the address out anywhere within a week the address would have started to recieve spam. Their filters were terrible.
/.er's which free mail service provides the best spam filtering? I am really only interested in the mainline providers, gmail, yahoo, hotmail.
Has this situation changed? Have they improved their filtering methods?
When I originally left hotmail I went to yahoo since their spam filters seemed a lot more powerful (you could teach it what you thought was spam) however then yahoo started to charge for their better filtering service and the spam situation there become unmanagable.
What is the opinion of my fellow
My current email solution is to host my own mail server from my home, however, I would like to start using a freemail service since I can't access my home mail server from work due to an overly restrictive firewall/proxy policy.
GeekServ Unix Consulting Services (http://www.geekserv.com)
With all the email clients out there, one must ponder why MS would create a new product instead of just using Outlook Express. One must also wonder how MS will replace the revenue of allowing users to not user to skip the ads when reading mail.
It is possible that they are just desperate to win back a portion of the market that they still have not understood. MS has missed the Intenet again by not updating IE, and IE has lost some trust. Windows live is going to require a client, and it may be that IE is not going to be that client. it might be that they are thinking of seperating the application interface from the browser. This would be a good thing.
OTOH, it could be that this innovative email client simply shifts the ads from the browser to the client, just like Eudora does. The client could also be some form of spyware.
Why we do know is that MS does not give away product except to gain a share in a long negleted marketspace. We also not that MS says it wil unbundle IE. What all these things mean will only become clear as Vista is released.
"She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
It's Microsoft. What do you think it will be? I'm betting it's free as in "here's some buggy software... oh, and subscribe to our virus scanner for only $50/year!"
Hotmail on my desktop... IN BED (that one doesn't work).
I'm still trying to figure out why I care. I use hotmail for some "alias" accounts for webforums I belong to - every once in a while I check them and delete the spam. I don't like the interface, a hotmail address is automatically suspect (to me), and its run by the great satan (MS).
Why would I want hotmail when I can use gmail, a product from a company that does no evil and only has my interests at heart? Right? Right?
The whole point of hotmail, gmail, whatever is the web component. If I want to tie it to a desktop, I'll POP3 it (which gmail has always let you do). Hotmail moving towards something like this is hardly news, its marketing.
That said, I WOULD like a way to manage multiple gmail accounts on one computer (me, my wife, and three kids) instead of having to sign in and out every time. Anyone? Anyone?
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
Here's an e-mail service I haven't heard about for a while. Who uses it anymore? With better options like GMail, whats the point of it? Guess it's just Microsoft's attempt at trying to sway people away from GMail. I still think GMail has a definite advantage over hotmail. Now with almost 3GB of storage space, POP access so any POP-able e-mail program can be used to view messages (Outlook, Thunderbird, etc), and the chat feature, GMail as far as I am concerned is the better e-mail service.
What's the matter, James? No glib remark? No pithy comeback?
Fine. Your hotmail on your desktop. Will there be *any* users? Do you know anyone who uses hotmail as a serious personal email-account? I don't. The last one converted to Gmail 6 months ago, here at the office, when Groupwise got replaced bij Outlook. Everyone uses Gmail. If M$ wants this to be a succes, they'd better advertise it with 'Gmail on your desktop'. I don't think hotblondelooking4b1gd1ck1156431165@hotmail.com will want to read her hotmail from the desktop.
Trust me, I work for the government.
what is hotmail?
Exactly. In my last days of Hotmail, I would check my spam folder, and ignore my inbox, since any message I actually wanted to read was marked as spam (even with the minimum allowed spam settings), and anything I didn't want to read went straight to my inbox. I would have even used Hotmail like that, but there was eventually some more crossover between the two, so I left it, and haven't looked back.
Gmail is definitely better in just about all ways, except for its whacked default way it sorts the mail (I suppose there is a setting somewhere that makes it sort emails better, but I haven't found it yet).
As I read the summary, I could not help but be amazed by the submitter's poor command of English. It is clear from the nature of his errors that he is a native speaker of English, but it is news to me that capital letters are now optional on proper nouns and at the start of sentences, that "your" is a valid replacement for "you're", that you can just string any number of clauses together with an "and"...I could go on. The its/it's thing. C'mon people! I suppose it's just that I'm not keeping up with the younger generation these days...
:D
I am left wondering how old the submitter is, and worrying about just how bad the education system is in $country_of_origin.
Perhaps we should set up a charity and a PayPal account - "Help A Geek: Educating Slashdotters in Basic English". What say?
iqu
I put that in quotes because it makes me shudder just to say it. But I already digress.
Hotmail, should I choose to use it, is already on my desktop, since my web browser brings it to me along with all sorts of applications these days.
Microsoft's sending Hotmail to a pure OS-installed interface only points to the fact that they [can't | don't want to] keep up with other online mail services. Gmail and Yahoo are updating their web interfaces all the time.
Strangely, those web interfaces are still available to me on my desktop.
Web 2.0 == Giant Blogspam Circle Jerk
Hell No.
Sorry - that's two words. I'll release the patch in a month or two.
What?
Wouldn't it be better if they instead produced a e-mail client that did not assume email could contain things to be executed, and instead simply let people read their mail? Now that would be original for them.
Of course, there are plenty of free (and also free as in freedom) e-mail clients already, including thunderbird, which includes plugins to do all those e-mail services today, without compromising the security of the machine in the process.
Hotmail is the ugliest interface of any mail client. It has too much on the screen and too much crap that I would never use.
They need a cleaner interface in my opinion.
He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
Microsoft's paying Hotmail customers get completely screwed... boy, I'd really feel like an asshole if I ever paid for Hotmail and now they're gonna give it away in any fashion. My money paid for what exactly? Another jet for some executive?
stuff |
First a new version of Paint, and now this! I can't wait for Vista to hit the shelves!
Honestly, there are too many email options out there. Once someone gets set up with a hotmail, gmail, yahoo, etc service, what motivation is there to switch?
Like changing home addresses, phone numbers, bank accounts and credit cards, changing emails service providers is like pulling teeth. It is a painful affair in which you have to be on the ball to contact ANYBODY that knows of your existing information and then let them know the new information. For a while, people will be out of contact with you because they keep sending you email to your old account (because they didn't update their contact information). Even worse is when you try and keep both accounts active, then people forget which one is your newer one and start sending email to both. Honestly, if you have had an email address for more then a few years, you probably have tonnes of contacts to notify if you change that address.
Gmail, Hotmail, Yahoo, etc, these companies are not selling you on email services. They are selling you on using their site as a portal to your email service. Google liberally peppers their GMail with GAds, same with Yahoo and Hotmail. They want people to show up, not because of the @whatever.com extension, but because they can indoctrinate you with advertising earning their site revenue.
Hotmail saying "we don't expect you to switch your email provider, just use our software as a portal" is a big step in the right direction. I may not like hotmail, and I will reserve judgement on hotmail's new service until I have tried it out, but Microsoft is realizing that people are not going to switch their gmail or yahoo accounts simply to get a new email address with @hotmail.com at the end of it. But if Hotmail offers a desktop software that allows me to see my Gmail account more easily, or even offers additional features that GMail doesn't offer, then I am all for it.
Consequently, this will inspire Google and Yahoo to offer support for 3rd party email as well which undoubtedly will offer better, more competitive services.
Just like with universal IM integration, email integration into one central app will be beneficial on the whole. It allows a person to set up ONE email account and then they can decide which app/web service they want to access that email through. It means people don't have to go through the hassle of changing email accounts simply because Yahoo or Hotmail or Gmail offers a fancier interface or bigger storage capacity.
Its the beginning of the end of switching email providers like underwear. People can select an email address and then keep it indefinitely, regardless of which companies software they are using to access that email. Don't dump on Microsoft just because they are Microsoft, Microsoft is still innovating the future. Celebrate the fact that by Microsoft doing it first, more will follow, and that is overall beneficial.
I haven't thought of anything clever to put here, but then again most of you haven't either.
...you've been able to use Outlook to get Hotmail for years now. Why is this news? Is MS so starved for attention that they have to press release something that has already been available?
Tighten up, Bill!
never bring a twinkie to a food fight.
I've had my hotmail account since 2001. I'm on numerous mailing lists. My address is posted on my web site and on numerous other web sites and forums. I get maybe 3-5 unsolicited spam mailings a day. I get maybe 15-20 spams a day, but the vast majority come from newsletters, email lists, and update notices from different groups I've opted in with.
I did have an account from 97-98 (from before the MS buyout) that I had until 2001 but the spam on that account was out of control. 200+ unsolicited spam emails a day. My newer account has varied in the amount of spam it gets, but in the last year it has been well below the what I would consider a problem.
-Rick
"Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
So now it's a MS program, so you can't block the ads using browser plug-ins? Damn, sign me up now! Now I can't even stop myself from being able to punch the monkey to win an X-box, no matter how hard I try!
I thought the reason for the IE web browser, activeX and all the other micro$oft hype was to eliminate the need for a client on my desktop for anything. This goes against all the grain there is. They have again proven they are just struggling to compete anymore.
I agree with the person who said this was just a "vista only" teaser app.
And this is not a new thing.
" From the article, "The move is a shift for the Hotmail business, which in the past, has charged users who wanted to read their mail using desktop software, rather than a Web browser. Microsoft charged $20 and up for its paid service."""
No, this needs clarification. The service where you access hotmail from outlook and outlook express is free if you were using it in the past before MS made it a paid service.
The war with islam is a war on the beast
The war on terror is a war for peace
Probably a typo in an internal memo from Balmer: Get to work on a web 0.2 application right away, guys!
It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
I'm using a standard mail client to read my Gmail through its POP3 support.
It's free and I'm not even tied to a specific mail client, unlike this solution.
And my mail client happen to support multiple accounts too.
Heck, even Microsoft's own Outlook and Outlook Express supports reading Hotmail.
I think I'm missing something here, or Microsoft is reinventing the wheel... again?
Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
This most likely won't have support on Mac OS X. I actually have a hotmail account and use Mac Mail w/ the help of a plugin called httpmail to retrieve my hotmail w/o having to pay for "premium" services
Dude, you completely left out the comma fault, the split infinitive, and the sentence capitalization errors. If you're gonna be a grammar nazi, show some attention to detail! Sheesh.
Didn't they already make Outlook Express?
As far as pop access to the hotmail is concerned, use the following configuration (any client):
select POP3
host: pop3hot.com
port: 110
Encryption: none
Authentication mode: clear text
this damn works....i m using it with Kmail.
For hotmail's SMTP, i did get any solution yet. I am using Gmail's SMTP server for it.
Well, allow me to answer as an Internet historian. I have been chronicling the history of the World Wide Web for over thirty years, and thus, I can say definitively that it seems to have been some sort of a website used in the earliest days of what was then called "electronic-snail-mail." While we can't be sure exactly what the site was like, we can speculate based on the name that it was some sort of messaging service where gay men, and possibly straight women, could receive notifications about the latest "hot males" available for their sexual gratification. While the records seem to indicate that this site was once popular, by 2004 no more records of contemporary references to its existence could be found. As with the ancient people of Easter Island or the colony at Roanoke, we can only speculate as to the reason for its disappearance, but some leading historians seem to believe it was overtaken in popularity by something called gayer-mail, or "gmail" for short. Others, however, subscribe to more far fetched theories indicating its destruction at the hands of venegful Amazons. Still other believe the site was merely a legend, like Suck.com, and never truly existed but like the rumored cities of gold in the new world.
Come on, people. Stop wondering, it's obvious why M$ is doing this. It's the same old game again. They already ship IE with the OS, but that's just not enough to beat gmail. So they need to find a way to ship hotmail with the OS. Obviously, a dedicated, pre-installed client, sold as the latest and greatest (that's why they don't just use Outlook) and set up as the default e-mail handler, is the answer.
Patterns. M$ doesn't innovate, not even business strategies. This is just the same old game once more.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
Hotmail is synonymous with Web Mail for a lot of people. Some people won't use GMail because it's new and different, and they are scared to try it in case they find it difficult.
It's the same reasons why people don't get broadband: "2 Gig? I'll never use it. I only send one or two pictures once in a while. It's good enough for me."
I'll probably be modded down for this...
Realistically, I would imagine that it's a teaser that will be Vista only, or will only be fully featured on Vista.
Even assuming you are right, what is wrong with that? Or are you just saying this because this is Microsoft we are talking about here? Just for example, Apple does this regularly and so do many application manufacturers to encourage users to buy new software versions. Would you expect software makers to make every feature of the newest iteration/major-version of their software products available to all users of older iterations as patches? Take for example 'Exposé' which is a very useful OS.X feature that you quickly get addicted to. It is not available for OS.X versions earlier than 10.3 and it hasn't been provided to users of earlier versions than 10.3 with a patch from Apple. You only have it as in OS.X 10.3 and 10.4 and the same goes for 'Spotlight' which is also very a very useful feature which is only available in OS.X 10.4. Of those two features Exposé at least should be relatively easy to integrate into say, OS.X 10.2. The patch probably would not be of such elephantine size it couldn't be distributed through Apples update utility. The reason this isn't done is simply to sell new OS.X versions. If you want new features upgrade, if you don't feel like spending the money then learn to do without but don't complain.
Only to idiots, are orders laws.
-- Henning von Tresckow
Get a forwarding address from a reputable company like pobox.com, and point it at whichever of the other 4 options you want to use at any given time.
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
Since my desktop is gnome, I'm with him. (Hotmail would just be really weird there...)
"Microsoft's hotmail on your own desktop according to an article on CNET. it's going to be free software and your going to be able to manage multiple accounts and they are attempting to include the ability to also just control all pop3 and smtp accounts you have..."
Is this going to be a re-branded Outlook Express?
And at least 4 protocols: IMAP (poorly), POP3, Exchange, and now their proprierty Hotmail protocol.
I used to get my Hotmail through Outlook. Did it for a couple of years before M$ decided to charge for that service. Believe me, I tried to continue to get my mail, but the Oulook interface stopped working.
I am now slowly but surely migrating all the hotmail-associated accounts to gmail.
Live Mail is horrendous. I have it, it sucks. I keep it because it's marginally better than the old hotmail interface (that worked on Firefox - Live Mail is crippled on Firefox).
Like it's been said before, M$ just doesn't "get" the internet.
n/t
I'm spotting a very disturbing trend here.
The appearance of these live desktop apps are shifting the protocols for mail access from established standads. Now, in order to access some mail provider's server you need a proprietary application, when really it should not be necesary (IMAP would do just fine). Google still provides POP access (although it is not good enough), but I'd bet that MS will only be accessible via web or its application.
Looks like the part about services being "decommoditized" mentioned in the halloween documents is becoming true.
Very bad news indeed.
GPG 0x1B479C78
Still works for me in Outlook Express. Have you tried that?
And as an added bonus, it will automatically delete all of your archived messages, attachments, and contacts if you forget to check your mail in 30 days.
I stopped using hotmail like a year ago, but when i used to use it Outlook would let you check Hotmail accounts from your desktop just fine, for free, without ads. Did they remove that? cause.. as far as i know this article is about something that has been available for like half a decade.
btw gmail rules and it also lets you check your email from any desktop email client, without ads, for free. although i really like the webbased one and just use that now
Hotmail has MSN Messenger on its side.
And yes, I know you don't need a Hotmail account to use -- I connect 3 hotmails and 3 non-hotmails every day.
Messenger is the most popular instant messaging service in Canada. Why Microsoft is giving up the MSN brand up here is astounding to me.
But I generally agree: there is little other use to hotmail right now -- it doesn't even save your sent mail by default for more than 30 days in its web interface. Time for a revamp on that service.
Skot Nelson music is my saviour / i was maimed by rock and roll
With all the ajax hype about web applications eventually subplanting desktop applications, it seems rather ironic to see web based email moving into a desktop application. Of all the possible applications, Email is traditionally most suited to the web. This isn't to say that I think web email will disappear because obviously it will not. My point is that there is a certain value in "real" desktop applications that web apps just can't match... with or without ajax.
-matthew
"THERE IS NO JUSTICE, THERE IS ONLY ME." -Death
Oh. Maybe I wasn't clear.
It's normal now. If you want to keep your sent items, you need to move them out of the sent folder. From the top of the sent folder page:
"Messages more than 30 days old will be automatically deleted from this folder."
My point was that this new policy came without any obvious warning. One day, I just looked in there and a few hundred messages were gone.
It just seems stupid. Why do they assume your own sent mail is as worthless to you as the stuff in your trash folder?
great. i signed up for windows live mail beta in september. fine. i realize i might not get a lotter ticket to try it out. but then i signed up again. then i started getting emails from hotmail itself saying how great it is and that I should sign up. I signed up 22 times in response to 22 emails from them telling me how great it is.
Do I have an account yet ? no. do i suspect I will get one before they roll out? no. do I want to try the service? yes.
back to gmail....
if I can't get an invite in 8 months, I cant imagine them being able to ship this schlock in the intervening time...
When using Yahoo mail or GMail, you get free Pop access and therefore can use Thunderbird. Why would I want to get spammed by HotMail?
But then again, the most profitable marketing strategy is as a sheep herder; and damn, there are alot of sheep!
JsD
People instead moved to better services like GMail. GMail gave lots of space so M$ followed suit as it lost users. Now they are what? our pals and are going to let us connect again to their hotmail servers and use the new client software.
M$ is a 2 dollar whore. The chance I run one more M$ program than I have to is slim to none.
"Never say Never."