MacBook Announcement Expected on Tuesday

wwhsgrad2002 writes "Both ThinkSecret and Apple Insider are reporting that Apple could hold a press conference as early as Tuesday, May 9th, to announce their new line of MacBooks. The laptop will be the Intel-based successor to the company's popular iBook line. The 13.3-inch widescreen MacBook is expected to sport Core Duo processors from Intel Corp and pack novelties such as a completely magnetic latching system, built in iSight video camera, and MagSafe power adapter. Additionally, each MacBook is expected to come bundled with Apple's Front Row and PhotoBooth software applications. A coding glitch with Apple's Web site has all but confirmed the MacBook moniker for the new consumer laptop."

Comments

MacBook

[certel]

Damn, and I just got the 15" version. Would be nice to have one that's a little more portable. Definitely happy with the performance though.

Re:MacBook

[M-2]

Well, I think they're talking here about the iBook replacement, not the Powerbook replacement that the MacBook Pro is.

Re:MacBook

[Anonymous Coward]

Indeed, note the difference between "MacBook" and "MacBook Pro". Compare how Powerbook was not Powerbook Pro even though it was the professional line.

Re:MacBook

[chrismear]

This is a great example of the kind of consumer confusion that I think we're likely to see once there are both 'MacBook Pro's and 'MacBook's on the market. Great naming scheme, Apple!

Re:MacBook

[Anonymous Coward]

Great naming scheme, Apple!

Behold! Preemptive criticism of things Apple is only rumored! No mention of the easy clarification of different screen sizes!

Re:MacBook

[Anonymous Coward]

I often notice this interesting disconnect in general slashdot opinion- everyone flames marketing types for treating consumers as if they are idiots, but then marketers are criticized for making it too difficult to tell between "macbook" and "macbook pro"? Just how stupid do you think everyone is? Apparantly you have an even lower opinion of the populace than marketers.

Re:MacBook

[masklinn]

It is in fact a great example of name: as one stated elsewhere, one of the issues Apple had in the past was that upon reaching the Apple Store website people would see Powerbooks and their extremely high prices, and not necessarily notice the ibooks. Here, when the potential customer sees Macbook Pro for $2k, either he goes "great, i'll take 5" or he sees the Pro, considers that he is not one and deduces by himself that there may be a non-pro line more fit to his wallet.

Customer Confusion? Not a snowball's chance in hell, and "Pro" suffixes are extremely common and well understood by the public: it's better, more powerful, more featured, but it's also much more expensive.

And nowadays you only need 3 letters to say all that.

Re:MacBook

[wootest]

At least it's better than MacBook Con. ;)

Re:MacBook

[Ohreally_factor]

Well, even MacBook Con would be better than the MacBook Wii.

Re:MacBook

[Anonymous Coward]

At least the Macbook Wii would probably run cooler.

Re:MacBook

[wootest]

And be rather pungent.

Re:MacBook

[Sloppy]

"Pro" suffixes are extremely common and well understood by the public: it's better, more powerful, more featured, but it's also much more expensive.

Except when you're talking about Apple's portable computers, where it also means physically larger, i.e. inferior. ;-)

Pricing could be interesting

[mccalli]

It's the price I'm interested in. Last time there was a move from G4-based devices to Core Something devices (Solo or Duo) was the Mac Mini. And the price went up quite a lot for that.

Cheers,
Ian

Re:Pricing could be interesting

[Anonymous Coward]

Last time there was a move from G4-based devices to Core Something devices (Solo or Duo) was the Mac Mini. And the price went up quite a lot for that.

It went up $100. That's not that much, in the grand scheme of things.

Compare the 17" Powerbook, which was initially $3299, then $2999. The 17" MacBookPro is only $2799.

So I guess sometimes the price can go down by double quite a lot, huh?

Re:Pricing could be interesting

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually the $599 Mac Mini Core Solo has Bluetooth and Aiport built-in, a $100 add-on for the $499 G4 based Mac Mini. I agree that the $799 Mac Mini is a total rip-off for what they are giving you.

Re:Pricing could be interesting

[Anonymous Coward]

No, when it was retired, the $499 Mac Mini had 802.11g and Bluetooth included.

Re:Pricing could be interesting

[Anonymous Coward]

Of course, if you want to look at the new prices relative to the original prices, the mac mini increased by something like 20% while the powerbook decreased by less than 10%

Re:Pricing could be interesting

[aztektum]

But for us poor bastards the eBay prices of the G4 Mini's now makes them much more palatable for those that just want one to play around with

Re:Pricing could be interesting

[NutscrapeSucks]

$100 more expensive is a lot in the low-end segment where prices are falling, not rising.

The strong point of the Mini is supposedly it's small form-factor. But since you can get an entire P-M/CoreSolo laptop for $600, the mini can't even compete on size anymore.

This is Classic Apple, where their low-end products end up as neither good nor cheap. If they can't make a Mini for under $500, there's really no point. Instead, they should just make a decent $800 Pizzabox Core-Due computer with a PCI-E slot.

(I should point out that analysts believe that the G4 Mini sold very poorly, and IMO the Intel Mini isn't any more attractive.)

Re:Pricing could be interesting

[Ulrich Hobelmann]

Unless you want an Intel. I don't have a PC, but I'd really like to be able to run something like VMWare or Parallels Workstation *efficiently*. Virtual PC is SOOOO slow on even the "fast" Mac mini G4 (Qemu is even slower, but Virtual PC simply chokes on some software, like OpenBSD, or Arch Linux).

I'd have sold my mini and bought a new one, if there *hadn't* been this significant price increase. This way I don't think it's worth it. I'm even considering to switch back to PC + Linux or OpenBSD.

Macs really are great consumer devices, but when you're not using 90% of what's bundled anyway (I'm a Unix guy, that's why), then X11 isn't that much worse after all. Gnome has become quite nice over time, too.

Re:Pricing could be interesting

[laffer1]

Minis are nice in offices, but the real problem is the lack of cheap display. My boss believes that you must buy "mac displays". I managed to talk him into iMacs using his ignorance. Seriously though, if a lamer goes into an apple store wanting a computer for under 1000 dollars, apple can't do it for them. They need a 200 dollar monitor and a mac mini at 500 or less. Its cheaper to buy an iBook right now (until tuesday) than to spend the 700 dollars on that damn apple display. (its great, but not practically priced) How can dell sell monitors at 200 dollars but apple can't?

Re:Pricing could be interesting

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree. I wonder what brand Apple displays are. Most of the Dell's (and all the Ultrasharp/digital ones) are just rebranded Samsung LCD's. I'm pretty sure Apple just has a contract with one of the main LCD companies to slap on a different, and more attractive, casing.

Is the nice casing really worth all the extra $$$ when its the same hardware inside?

Re:Pricing could be interesting

[Queer Boy]

It went up $100. Is that quite a bit? They added built-in 802.11g+BT 2 (over having to add it), serial ATA (over parallel), 10/100/1000 ethernet (over 10/100), 2 more USB ports, 1 more memory slot, and optical audio (over just analog audio out). Not to mention I think the Intel GMA 950 is probably better than the Radeon 9200 (which sucks). I have a PowerPC mini (with the secret speed bump) and this is WAY better for the money.

Re:Pricing could be interesting

[iwsnet]

It would be great if they could sell the new Macbook for $999, but at 13.3 inches, I think Apple will charge maybe $1099 or higher.

Re:Pricing could be interesting

[NutscrapeSucks]

Right -- supposedly Mini is the loss-leader that brings in store traffic who then get upsold to the iMac. But given that, it makes no sense whatsoever to raise the price on the things. Stick a Celeron in there and sell 'em for $400 or don't bother.

Re:Pricing could be interesting

[tfoss]

A lot? Didn't the original mini start at $499? And the intel core at $599? And, the intel mini has standard bluetooth and airport extreme, which together were a $99 extra for the original mini?

-Ted

Re:Pricing could be interesting

[QuietLagoon]

It's the price I'm interested in.

I'm interested in seeing if the CPU whine and red-hot temps of the MacBookPro have been carried over to the consumer line.

Re:Pricing could be interesting

[Anonymous Coward]

The Intel-based Mac mini also comes with the Apple Remote control and the built-in Infrared Receiver. Plus, the Front Row software to go with it.

Re:Pricing could be interesting

[BeerCat]

In other words, they are setting a price point, and including extra features to suit. For reasons known only to Apple, they decided to raise the price point by $100 when they went from G4 to Intel, and hence needed a whole raft of additional features.

Re:Pricing could be interesting

[hotsauce]

Yes, $100 is quite a bit on a $500 device. 20% actually. In terms of inflation, that's quite a lot.

That's great that it's a nice machine now, but the mini was supposed to be the entry-level machine to compete with all those sub-$500 PCs. It is neither competitive now, nor even in the sub-$500 arena.

If the MacBooks cross $1000, they will have left an important market segment. There are many people who don't think it is reasonable anymore to spend more than that on a laptop, especially considering the alternatives.

Re:Pricing could be interesting

[Reaperducer]

How can dell sell monitors at 200 dollars but apple can't?

You mean like the 200 Dell monitors my company bought two years ago that are so dim now that you have to squint to see them for the first two hours until they warm up?

Apple has never tried to compete on price. It's always been about quality with Apple. Hopefully that won't change. Windows users are so used to being abused by cheap prices and shoddy products that they forget what a quality is like.

Re:Pricing could be interesting

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm pretty sure Apple just has a contract with one of the main LCD companies to slap on a different, and more attractive, casing.

Then you would be mistaken. Apple's underlying display is better. Quote from the review:

...if you want the best 30-inch display that money can buy, Apple's Cinema HD Display is it.

Re:Pricing could be interesting

[OrangeTide]

Well the original Mac Mini was $499 and $599. Now they are $599 and $799. So that's a 20% and 33% change from the original pricepoints. That's a pretty big jump.

If the MacBook is willing to make the same sort of deviation from the original price point we can expect them for about $1350 for the 13.3" model. Which is about 85% more than the cheapest PC Core Duo 13.3WS laptop.

I'd certainly be interested in MacBook if they can be had for under $1200. Preferably at the original $999 price point for the lowest end. (Maybe a Core Solo T1300)

Re:Pricing could be interesting

[Lars T.]

First of all, $100 is 20% more - that is quite a bit. And while the Radeon 9200 may suck, the Intel GMA 950 really does suck

Re:Pricing could be interesting

[b17bmbr]

I own a G3 and a G4 ibook. the G3 was WAY BETTER in terms of quality. you could just feel it and even see it. my G4 has had trackpad problems a couple of times. apple will most likely keep it at $999 trying to hit the student market. the G3 was (once I added more memory and wifi) $1499 if I remember correctly. the G4 was $999 (well, $949 because I'm a teacher) w/o wifi which I had to add. Apple will keep the price low by skimping on other things, like a slower bus, hard drive, etc. not that that's a bad thing, it's just that there's far more to a computer than just processor speed, etc. also, the G3 case was far more solid, so expect more quality issues. apple will sell a bunch of them (maybe even to me!!), but will have to handle more problems. but then again, the people who buy cheaper computers will expect less, per se, than will a power user. and even at that, look at the MBP problems. if they go over $1000, they automatically price themselves out of their target audience.

Re:Pricing could be interesting

[mkiwi]

How can dell sell monitors at 200 dollars but apple can't?

Apple could sell monitors like dell, but they choose not to. Here are some reasons:

1. Most Dell LCD's lack the brightness, contrast, and color demanded by the creative market.
2. Apple will not sell a product with a $360 mail-in rebate attached to it.
3. Apple is concerned about its brand image. If they produced cheap computers/monitors like Dell, Apple's image in the eyes of the consumer would go down.
4. Steve Jobs likes insanely great things like 30" Cinema HD Displays and avocados.

Re:Pricing could be interesting

[bedouin]

I can't speak about the 30" displays, but I can tell you that I'm the owner of a Dell 2005FPW 20" widescreen display, attached to my PowerMac sitting beside my 17" Apple Studio Display. I've toyed with the 20" Cinema Displays at the Apple Store and they look great (ascetically even more so) but the Dell looks just as good, and AmandTech seems to agree; they both use the same panel, though different electronics beyond that.

The Dell has multiple inputs (DVI, VGA, Composite, and S-Video) switchable from the front panel, a three-year warranty, along with picture in picture capabilities and was only $369 after some coupons were applied compared to Apple's $799 price ($699 with educational pricing) and one year warranty. Yeah, it looks kind of ugly -- but I saved $300 and can attach my Mac Mini to VGA input while my PowerMac uses DVI.

Not usually a fan of Dell at all but they win this one in my opinion. As far as brightness is concerned this display is too bright for me . . .

Re:Pricing could be interesting

[gad_zuki!]

>Yes, $100 is quite a bit on a $500 device. 20% actually. In terms of inflation, that's quite a lot.

Maybe. But look at the value. The mini flopped because of its lack of features out of the box. Apple has addressed the following issues:

1. CPU power. (anemic at best in old version)
2. Lack of optical out and analog line in. (wow, i can do something with this thing now)
3. Built in b/g. (No more cables!)
4. GMA950 intel video. Not exactly the newest ATI, but will do hdtv and run typical mac (and many windows games) games with ease.
5. 4 USB ports. (no brainer here)

Now lets look at the "value" earlier model. To do anything other than browse an d read email you'd need to purchase the following:

1. A wireless card. Around 80 dollars or so at the apple store.
2. A usb hub. Now that your keyboard and mouse have taken up the slots theres no room for your scanner or printer. Say 20 dollars.
3. A USB audio line in device. 50 or so.
4. Upgrading 256 meg to 512. (512 is not standard I believe) another 100 bucks or so to apple, cheaper for the DIY crowd.

So you're getting about 350 dollars of more computer for 100 dollars. That's a deal not a liability. If people want a web/mail machine then please saunter to your local walmart of bestbuy and buy the bottom of the barrel clearance item.

>>If the MacBooks cross $1000, they will have left an important market segment.

The macbook is the name of the new powerbook for the most part. They have always been over 1000 dollars. WAY over 1000 dollars for a nice one. If price is an issue Apple has the ibook waiting for you.

Re:Pricing could be interesting

[gad_zuki!]

Stupid mistake on my part above. Yes the non-pro Macbook is the new ibook. I dont see why apple would price it near its pro level, but we'll see.

Re:Pricing could be interesting

[Pius II.]

You may want to try using one of the new Mac minis in an Apple store. I have a PPC Mini, without the secret speedbump, and with the sucky Radeon 9200. Still, I was shocked to see just how badly the GMA 950 performs. Yes, it has some semblance of pixel shaders. No, that doesn't make up for its abysmal fill rate (at least I think that's where the problem lies): just try dragging a large window over the screen. It seems like although the machines use QE (hardware compositing), they are actually too slow to do it properly.
Really, test it out. The GMA 950 chips are horrible, and if the Macbooks come with them, I won't buy a new Mac laptop till the next revision of the Pro.

Re:Pricing could be interesting

[Anonymous Coward]

1) Inflation.

2) They still needed to sell their remaining stock of the G4 models. (Remember, from all indications it appears Apple is making its migration to Intel processors faster than their original plan called for.)

3) The price will come down as Intel releases faster core duo processors. Look for good deals in time for the winter solstice.

4) It is important for there to be a perception that the Intel processors are worth more. At least during the transition phase. Counter-intuitively, it may entice more buyers than the lesser price point would have. Even if it does not, the perception is worth the cost.

Re:Pricing could be interesting

[absoluteflatness]

As far as I remember, there aren't very many companies that make LCD panels (Samsung, AU Optronics, and NEC maybe?), so most companies are using one of theirs, but the panel itself is not the defining characteristic of the quality of an LCD. Many manufacturers use the same exact panels, but produce displays of very different quality from each other. I guess the point is that there are lots of other "electronics" to take into account for a display that could justify the difference in price.

Of course, you're probably right that Apple displays come with a somewhat heftier price tag than a hypothetical display with the exact same components from a less chic manufacturer.

Re:Pricing could be interesting

[R3d M3rcury]

I agree, that's what I'm curious about.

The current price-points on the iBook are $999 for the 12" w/ 1.33GHz G4, 512MB of RAM, ATI Radeon 9550 w/32MB, CDRW/DVD, and a 40GB hard drive. $1299 gets you a 14" screen, 1.42GHz G4, SuperDrive, and 60GB hard drive.

So will Apple drop the $999 price-point? Can Apple make it a 13.3-inch display and built-in video camera and, say, a 1.66 GHz Core Duo as well as 512MB of RAM, the CDRW/DVD, and 40GB hard drive, price it at $999, and still keep their healthy margins?

I say no. But I wouldn't bet the farm on it.

Re:Pricing could be interesting

[iCEBaLM]

The mini flopped because of its lack of features out of the box.

The mini flopped?

Re:Pricing could be interesting

[jht]

It's not quite that, I think - I remember the Mini being available in three models at one point - a $499 (slower processor, 40GB drive, no wireless), a $599, and a $699 version. I don't remember the exact difference in configurations, but at the highest price point you got the faster processor, 80GB hard drive, a Superdrive, and wireless. It's just that now they've gone from 3 models to 2, and dropped the middle price point.

Re:Pricing could be interesting

[John Harrison]

Actually all the tests I have seen have shown the Intel graphics chipset spanking the Radeon 9200. I have a G4 mini. It is great for what I use it for, but it is a serious dog at 3d.

Re:Pricing could be interesting

[Lars T.]

Then we must have seen completely different tests.

Re:Pricing could be interesting

[Anonymous Coward]

My 2Ghz+2GB 14" laptop (1400x1050) cost me $1300 NEW from Dell. Sorry Apple, OSX is kinda nice (from a unix admin point of view it has 'issues') but your hardware SUCKS donkey balls (problems out the yingyang) and it of course grossly overpriced. I may own Apple stock but it's not because I like their product price point.

Re:Pricing could be interesting

[Sketch]

Now lets look at the "value" earlier model. To do anything other than browse an d read email you'd need to purchase the following:

1. A wireless card. Around 80 dollars or so at the apple store.

Funny, my old mini works just fine plugged into my home network via it's built in ethernet port and manages to do more than just brows and read email just fine. I have no need to pay more for an airport card that I'm not going to use.

2. A usb hub. Now that your keyboard and mouse have taken up the slots theres no room for your scanner or printer. Say 20 dollars. /

Unless you bought your keyboard from Apple, in which case you plug your mouse into your keyboard and still have a port free on the back of the mini. You also have another low-speed port free on the keyboard. Sure, 4 USB ports are better than 2 but not worth an extra $50. It's probably an extra $5 cost on Apple's part, if that.

4. Upgrading 256 meg to 512. (512 is not standard I believe) another 100 bucks or so to apple, cheaper for the DIY crowd.

512MB has been standard since the first revision, well over 6 months ago. The price did not increase at that time.

The macbook is the name of the new powerbook for the most part. They have always been over 1000 dollars. WAY over 1000 dollars for a nice one. If price is an issue Apple has the ibook waiting for you.

The MacBook Pro is the name of the new powerbook. Apple has stated that the reason for changing the name of the PowerBook (which is their longest running product name, predating the Power Mac by a few years) is because they want to have "Mac" in all of the product names. Logically, this means the ibook will no longer be called the iBook, so it's expected that it will be named MacBook.

Video computer game on tv

[soupforare]

Please, don't put some toilet video card in the macbook. I'm looking at you Intel Integrated.
If you're going after the college kids market AT ALL, the macbook has to be able to game at least most of the time.

Re:Video computer game on tv

[Anonymous Coward]

If you're gaming most of the time at college -- hey!

      Are you my brother?!

      Mom says she isn't paying for you to play... or read Slashdot.

      Get back to your studies!

Re:Video computer game on tv

[Anonymous Coward]

If you want to game, buy a Dell.

-- mac owning college student that doesn't play games

Re:Video computer game on tv

[Anonymous Coward]

I wouldn't. Most Dell laptops now have shitty integrated Intel graphics, so an Asus, Toshiba, or Sony would be a better gaming platform.

Re:Video computer game on tv

[LnxAddct]

The Intel i9XX vid cards are actually pretty impressive. If you can look past the shared ram, they can definitely go up against a pretty modern ATI or Nvidia card.
Regards,
Steve

Re:Video computer game on tv

[Ulrich Hobelmann]

The point about iBooks was never the graphics card; it was that they included toilet flat screens (I used a G4 for more than a year).

If Apple gives the new MacBook a decent (i.e. competitive) screen, and a competitive price (and the most-of-the-time fanlessness I'm used to from the old iBook), I might even buy it.

Re:Video computer game on tv

[laffer1]

iBooks aren't good for gaming. THe processor is always too damn slow. you get at most 6 months before new games go above the specs. Maybe the intel chips will help, but i doubt it.

I think its a safe bet that it will have shitty intel graphics. The only ones key value was the fact they had radeon cards and similarly equipped dells cost a few hundred more. (at least when i bought mine 2 years ago)

Gaming on laptops is stupid anyway. Bad keyboards and usually lowend graphics. Plus the hard drives tend to be slower. A real gaming system needs 7200 rpm or better hard drives. Most people don't spring for 7200rpm drives for laptops yet. If the speed of the drive doesn't get you, the size will. Several newer games i've installed are at least 5gb. A 40gb drive in an apple ain't going to last long, especially if you need to dual boot windows for some games or school related stuff. (.NET development for cs majors etc)

Re:Video computer game on tv

[Anonymous Coward]

Last year, my school purchased R52's with Intel 900 integrated graphics for the student laptop program. A 4 year old ThinkPad A31p with 16MB graphics handily bested the Intel 900.

Re:Video computer game on tv

[Slithe]

What CS department would use .NET? CS Departments typically shy away from single platform programming languages, at least the ones that I know of do. Even at my extremely Windows-centric university, beginning courses use Java, systems courses use C (and some assembly), networking courses use C & Perl, and programming language design courses use Scheme. Even if your university used .NET, Mono should be acceptable.

Re:Video computer game on tv

[Anonymous Coward]

gaming? you can do that with an integrated graphics card. oh, you mean those hardcore FPS/MMORPG type of games? my little brother plays CS:Source and guild wars on a laptop with such a card. but who really wants to play them on a 12"/13.3" inch screen? it's a smaller niche of a small niche. i'm sure you can come up with anecdotes about people who love gaming on small screens and need the "kick-ass" graphics card, but this laptop isn't targeted for that. it's meant for the lower-end users, educational institutions, etc.

Re:Video computer game on tv

[be-fan]

There are three things working against dedicated graphics:

1) Cost
2) Size
3) Power

Especially in the 12" iBook, the space and cost saved by integrated graphics is going to be non-trivial. The power dissipation will also be a factor. The 1.67 GHz Core Duo uses extremely little power. At that level, even an X1300 is going to cause the battery life to go down significantly. For the iBook, where portability, cost, and battery life are important driving factors, integrated graphics make perfect sense.

Re:Video computer game on tv

[DrXym]

According to many Mac Mini users, that is way off the mark. You'd be lucky to get 10fps out of a Mac Mini playing World of Warcraft which is more or less unplayable. If the MacBook uses integrated graphics, it will be a waste of time to buy / play any games on it. It would probably be fine for 2D stuff, but anything more and it will crawl.

Re:Video computer game on tv

[soupforare]

I'll believe cost, I'm not sure I believe size or power anymore.
I'm not saying that it needs to be a powerhouse, but the R7500 in my iBook is poor. It had troubles running UT99 and Q3, that's pretty sad.
Actually, outside of having a portable OSX machine, I'm a little disapointed. The screen sucks, the trackpad sucks, the keyboard sucks; it even has trouble running Garageband, a product apple ships with the laptop! ;_;

In her defense, she makes a good portable multitrack, otoh, so did my $100 thinkpad.
She's a good girl, I'm just not sure it was worth it.

Re:Video computer game on tv

[mrchaotica]

Georgia Tech's CS department is planning to use .NET for exactly one class (up from none) this fall: Software Practicum. They're switching from Java because the curriculum is changing such that it's no longer a required class, and it'll basically be taken exclusively by those people who want to learn .NET 'cause they're trying to get a job that requires it. Every other class at Tech (to the best of my knowledge) uses a cross-platform language (and usually a Free one too, except for Java).

Re:Video computer game on tv

[OrangeTide]

Well the GMA950 that it will have can already play all the games available for Macs. You have to realize that there aren't very many Mac games. Call of Duty 2 which will be released for Macs soon is probably the most demanding game you can find for the platform.

You will be able to play World of Warcraft, Neverwinter Nights, at full resolution with excellent framerates on the GMA950.

The really nice thing about the GMA950 is that it is more power friendly than even the Radeon mobiles. Because of it's funny architecture (it draws rays in parallel a tile at a time then stitches the tiles together).

In the end, if you are interested in a cutting edge game system, then Apple is (currently) the wrong place to look.

Re:Video computer game on tv

[OrangeTide]

Maybe if they put ATI Mobility Radeon X1600 in them like MacBook Pro? That would be really cool. But I don't think it will happen.

Re:Video computer game on tv

[OrangeTide]

I have the old PowerPC G4 Mac Mini with ATI Radeon 9200 4X AGP and World of Warcraft is quite pleasant to play on it. If a GMA950 can't beat a Radeon 9200 then that's really sad. This old Mac Mini is actually my main OpenGL devel system too. I figured it's level of graphics was a good low-end to aim for on my project. Maybe I should use my ATI Rage128 instead if I want something more on the GMA950's level. HA!

Re:Video computer game on tv

[AstroDrabb]

Huh? They don't even come close. The shared memory is *much* slower than dedicated memory on a modern ATI or NVidia. I just got a new laptop with the i9xx and while it can do excellerated OpenGL under Linux/Win, the frame rates are nohting great. I have a dog-old 64MB Nvidia Geforce-3 Ti 500 on my desktopo that blows my new 128MB i9xx away. The GF-3 gets at least 3x - 4x more frames/sec. The next laptop I buy will have a real video card that doesn't suck up my main memory.

I will say that the i9xx is *much* better then the i8xx. So if you want a budget laptop like I did, it is an acceptable tradeoff. I put 2GB of DDR2 PC4200 in my laptop and I can play Call Of Duty 1 under Linux OK which is enough for me since I am not a big gamer. However thinking the i9xx can go up against a somewhat modern ATI/NVidia is silly. It can't even keep pace with my GF-3.

Re:Video computer game on tv

[nintendo_is_a_cereal]

Agreed our CS department makes almost all programming exercises language and OS independent. By and large we're recommended to do all our work on the schools command line unix machines. Even in my graphics course the work didn't have to be built specifically for windows.

Re:Video computer game on tv

[laffer1]

Western Michigan University. They are switching almost all CS classes for undergrads to .NET. (C# specifically) When i started i was able to use my iBook for course work but no longer. I know its stupid but they went up microsoft's ass. Until recently they pushed linux and solaris.

Mono is not a solution to .NET. Its not compatible completely with .NET 1.0 yet, let alone 2.0.

Re:Video computer game on tv

[Hes Nikke]

I'm not saying that it needs to be a powerhouse, but the R7500 in my iBook is poor.

todays iBooks (read those that are shipping TODAY, not Tuesday) have Radeon 9550's [source - good until MacBooks ship. source 2 - good much longer]. sure your iBook may have a crappy graphics card, but they don't ship with that bad graphics any more.

It had troubles running UT99 and Q3, that's pretty sad.
i call bullshit. i ran both games on a rage 128 which handled UT99 and Q3 just fine with quality at medium low levels. The Radeon (later renamed Radeon 7500) was built around running those games!

Re:Video computer game on tv

[Daniel Dvorkin]

If your school requires you to use .NET for CS classes, it's time to find a different school.

Re:Video computer game on tv

[toddestan]

If you want to game, buy a Dell.

You're joking, right?

Re:Video computer game on tv

[soupforare]

i call bullshit. i ran both games on a rage 128 which handled UT99 and Q3 just fine with quality at medium low levels. The Radeon (later renamed Radeon 7500) was built around running those games!

Maybe we have differing opinions of "just fine".
Either that or you played them in OS9 and the OSX ports for both games weren't that great.
Or maybe a little of both.

It did, however, play QW and Q2 fine.

Re:Video computer game on tv

[lowe0]

"If you want to game, buy a Dell."

Not a marketing major, I'm guessing. Gamers are clearly a small, but well-funded segment of the market. I have no illusions about the very limited amount of time I'll actually be spending playing games on my laptop, but I'm still not paying for a laptop that doesn't at least have the capability. If Apple doesn't announce something on Tuesday that meets my needs, I'm starting my laptop search over - and this time, non-Apple machines aren't getting ruled out.

Re:Video computer game on tv

[Anonymous Coward]

You are forgetting that boot camp will let you run windows on your mac (presumably you will be able to use boot camp on your macbook), so you have full access to all of the windows games.

And the GMA950 may be power friendly, but it doesn't accelerate T&L or vertex shader 3.0. It also only supports pixel shader 2.0. Non accelerated T&L is probably its biggest hit though.

Re:Video computer game on tv

[squiggleslash]

All the speculation is centered around the idea that as Apple has a large presence at E3, and looks set to announce something there, and as the MacBook is a high profile product most believe they have to release soon, that Apple is going to launch the MacBook at E3.

I generally agree with you, so I'm going to be interested to see if the MacBook is:

1. An iMac in a 13" laptop.

2. A Mac mini Core Duo in a 13" laptop.

Signs until now have pointed at 2. If Apple does release (2) at E3 rather than (1), then your point still stands. However, E3 is a gaming show. So if they launch (2), especially at $1,000 (you can get 17" laptops from my local branch of Staples with proper ATI graphics for $1,000), then they're going to be laughed at. Seriously. It's not that the machine is necessarily bad value, it's that they'd be releasing a machine totally unsuited to playing games in front of hundreds of journalists, analysts, and others whose primary focus is, erm, games.

This is the company that organized a medium-sized press conference, with hundreds of attendees, to launch some stereo speakers (with leather cases and the Intelized Mac mini playing second fiddle), so I wouldn't put it past them to do this, but at the same time, am I the only person who thinks this is wierd, to say the least? I know there are some Mac fanbois who, ignoring all the benchmarks to the contrary, are insisting the GMA950 must be better than the Radeon 9200 because, well, the 9200 is old and crappy (it kind-of is) and Apple must know what it's doing (erm, yeah, but do you know why they're doing that? Just because they know what they're doing doesn't mean your agenda is the same as their's), but for the rest of us, I can't see this working as a product announcement. The people at E3 are not Mac fanbois. They know if something's impressive or not.

Re:Video computer game on tv

[jyoull]

"Computer Science is no more about computers than astronomy is about telescopes."
-- attributed to Edsger Dijkstra

I'd say that can be extended to replace "computers" with "individual programming languages" and suggest that you need to find a better computer science program elsewhere... Computer Science is not about creating maintenance programmers.

Re:Video computer game on tv

[Hes Nikke]

the OS X port of Q3 played better than the OS 9 port. UT otoh, worked better under classic than the crash prone OS X port.... to bad 3d acceleration doesn't work under classic.

Re:Video computer game on tv

[laffer1]

I'm in the process of transfering out actually. My wife completed her masters degree at Western and found a job in the detroit area. (there are jobs!)

Three classes are remaining on other platforms. Operating systems and system programming will be taught with Linux. In Operating Systems we wrote one kernel module and had to make a custom kernel with no module support. Seemed too light to me. The assembly course (CS223) is still taught in sparc assembly on solaris for now. There is talk of switching to embeded devices with ARM.

Re:Video computer game on tv

[GaryPatterson]

Yeah, we're all running Doom 3 on our current iBooks. The Radeon9200 is more than enough for all the graphical effects. And I'm sure Quake 4 will run just fine on the Intel GMA950.

Yes, there are fewer Mac games than PC games, but that's got nothing to do with how demanding the available games actually are.

Why during E3?

[dividedsky319]

Why would they time it to be the same day as Nintendo's press conference on Tuesday?

I understand that they're different markets, but all eyes are going to be on Nintendo that day. They could easily put it off a week and get 100% of the attention.

Re:Why during E3?

[Y-Crate]

"I understand that they're different markets, but all eyes are going to be on Nintendo that day. They could easily put it off a week and get 100% of the attention."

Right now we are in the beginning of the 2007 educational purchasing season. This is when school districts/universities/etc all over the U.S. are putting together their orders for the next school year. Getting the MacBook to market as soon as possible is extremely important to Apple's bottom line.

Nintendo's game console is going to get a lot of attention, but in the whole scheme of things, getting the MacBooks out this week rather than next week could mean millions of dollars in additional revenue.

Re:Why during E3?

[Duncan3]

Welcome to the world of completely unrealistic Apple rumors.

E3 creates a complete media blackout for anything else.

At least it's better than the constant BS Cringely keeps spewing, and Slashdot keeps posting.

Re:Why during E3?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why E3? Maybee they got someone to actually write a game for it.

Re:Why during E3?

[Anonymous Coward]

Right now we are in the beginning of the 2007 educational purchasing season. This is when school districts/universities/etc all over the U.S. are putting together their orders for the next school year. Getting the MacBook to market as soon as possible is extremely important to Apple's bottom line.

Since when do universities buy Apple laptops? Every single business and computer science student at my college sports a Dell or HP Windows laptop. Maybe if they're targetting liberal artsy fartsy faggots they have a chance, but for serious computer students an Apple is a fucking expensive joke. Fuck man, the damn thing won't even run Visual Studio!

Re:Why during E3?

[Anonymous Coward]

Funny, I see an awful lot of Macs in the CS department at UIUC.

Guess it all depends on the quality of the CS program and students, huh, trollboi?

Re:Why during E3?

[CODiNE]

Completely different target markets. E3 is only big for gamers and geeks, Apple doesn't market to them, they want "Everybody else".

Re:Why during E3?

[PygmySurfer]

Actually, I believe there are several schools that offer Mac's to their students. Especially for graphic design type courses - not everyone who needs a laptop is a CS major. Not to mention the price of Apple laptops have been pretty close to the price of Wintel laptops.

Fuck man, the damn thing won't even run Visual Studio!

It won't?

Re:Why during E3?

[AnyoneEB]

Wait... Visual Studio won't run on an Intel Core Duo?

Re:Why during E3?

[Dis*abstraction]

I didn't know Bob Jones had a computer science department.

Re:Why during E3?

[Anonymous Coward]

I would actually say that it has more to do with how much money the students have to play with, a lot of times courtesy of their parents. When I went to NIU (one of the "second tier" Illinois schools), I would have not minded a Mac (ok, they were on the Mac classic at that time), but I was able to get a clearanced 286 for $500, which was a fraction of the price of any Mac available at the time. Most of the kids from the more affluent families did not even go to NIU, they went to Northwestern, University of Illinois at Urbana/Champaign, or out of state schools. I had to work my way through school after going to a community college. For reference, I am typing this on an IBook blueberry (OS 9.2.2), even though all of the other computers in the house are Windows XP, as the software for the kids is Windows only.

Re:Why during E3?

[pyite]

E3 creates a complete media blackout for anything else.

You're forgetting this is Apple. Anything at E3 including Nintendo is far far smaller than an announcement from Apple. There's plenty of people interested in Apple's announcement that don't know what E3 is, let alone WHEN it is. I, for instance, had no clue it's coming up soon and frankly I couldn't care less.

Re:Why during E3?

[David Nabbit]

Why would they time it to be the same day as Nintendo's press conference on Tuesday?

So they can announce the Apple/Nintendo merger, of course!

Re:Why during E3?

[Anonymous Coward]

"Guess it all depends on the quality of the CS program and students, huh, trollboi?"

Yes, but I don't think this sentence means what you think it means...

Re:Why during E3?

[Anonymous Coward]

You can't even troll right. That has to be a new low.

Re:Why during E3?

[happyemoticon]

Also, right now is right about when prospective freshmen decide which college they're going to. Most of the decisions have been mailed out and the SIR (Statement of Intent to Register) deadlines, at least for the UCs*, have just passed last week. They need to get on the market for those parental purchases now. If they are viewed as having an outdated consumer-level product after this month, they will lose sales, because the parents are starting to shop for their kids now.

Additionally, a lot of parents use the promise of a new computer as a bargaining chip in where the student ends up going to school ("Well, I want to get you a new computer, but if you go to that private university I'll only be able to afford a Dell...").

* Forgive my bias, I'm a cal alum and this is the only date I know off the top of my head.

Re:Why during E3?

[KDR_11k]

Why would you buy a Mac if you're running Windows on it anyway? Doesn't that defeat the whole point?

Re:Why during E3?

[Jeremi]

Why would you buy a Mac if you're running Windows on it anyway? Doesn't that defeat the whole point?

Depends on what you thought "the point" was. If I was buying a Mac, I think "the point" would be to have a machine that runs all that nice MacOS/X software and OS for daily use, but also runs the Windows apps that I sometimes want/need to use. It's a much nicer solution than buying two computers and a KVM... especially once the Parallels VM stuff has been polished up.

Re:Why during E3?

[be-fan]

Visual Studio? Sissy. Real men run emacs and code in Lisp. And they run it on milky-white iBooks :)

Re:Why during E3?

[Aqua OS X]

all eyes are going to be on Nintendo? You're kidding right?

It's E3, everyone is going to be announcing something that week. It's going to be big week for next gen titles, there's a lot left to be said about the PS3, etc. Soooo many different things will be announced or clarified next week.

Re:Why during E3?

[Anonymous Coward]

Two things: 1) paying attention to two electronics isn't really that tough. 2) If Apple releases the MacBook, it will be available THAT DAY. The same can't be said for Nintendo.

Re:Why during E3?

[toddestan]

Right now we are in the beginning of the 2007 educational purchasing season. This is when school districts/universities/etc all over the U.S. are putting together their orders for the next school year. Getting the MacBook to market as soon as possible is extremely important to Apple's bottom line.

Why? How many schools buy Mac laptops? How many of them buy them in any kind of sizable quanitity? I can see trying to push a new iMac/Mini/eMac out of the door, but this arguement really doesn't make sense to me in terms of laptops.

Re:Why during E3?

[dividedsky319]

all eyes are going to be on Nintendo? You're kidding right?

Tuesday, they will. Nintendo's press conference is scheduled for 9:30AM PST.

And beyond that, the Wii and the PS3 will be the talk of E3. There's the most hype about finding out about them, so when the info is released, that's what people will be looking at. Sure, there will be other surprises, but most people are waiting for the info on Wii or PS3.

Re:Why during E3?

[Gentlewhisper]

If Apple releases the MacBook, it will be available THAT DAY. The same can't be said for Nintendo.

As with the Macbook Pro released in Jan, which took 2 months to ship right?

Re:Why during E3?

[squiggleslash]

Perhaps the MacBook will just be over priced and under spec'd.

If this is the case, then Apple may be counting on E3 for cover.

Re:Why during E3?

[Aqua OS X]

E3 starts on that day, there will be plenty of hype everywhere... not just from Nintendo's circle.

Heck, MS is showing Halo 3 on the same day.

Yuk

[nurb432]

Long live the PowerPC

Core-Duo - really ?

[for_usenet]

The consumer line of laptops have had several differentiating features from the pro line. And I think in addition to the lack of gigabit ethernet, lack of expansion slot and included wireless, the CPU was the other big differentiator. I find it hard to believe they will put in a dual core CPU into the new "iBooks" - I would guess a new single-core pentium-M CPU ...

I just hope they keep the dedicated video, and stay away from the integrated Intel video.

Re:Core-Duo - really ?

[iowannaski]

I would definitely expect there to be a Core Solo option at the low end of the line, and some of the features from the MacBook Pro are certain to be missing. Integrated video would certainly seem likely - after all, there have to be quite a lot of potential MacBook buyers out there who don't care/aren't willing to pay for dedicated video in their notebook.

Re:Core-Duo - really ?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd expect a Solo and a Duo 1.66, 1.83, integrated graphics, 10/100 networking, wireless, optional Bluetooth and smaller HD sizes than the MBP. The screen will probably be 1280 x 800 otherwise it makes the 1440 x 900 MBP look bad.

Essentially, it'll be the mobile equivalent of a Mac Mini for consumers, not professionals.

Re:Core-Duo - really ?

[Anonymous Coward]

lack of expansion slot and included wireless

FYI, the current iBook has wireless (802.11g and Bluetooth 2.0 EDR). Mostly the iBook wasn't widescreen while the PowerBook was, and the iBook only mirrored displays while the PowerBook could drive diffrent data onto them (and some PowerBooks could drive the 30" display). The PowerBook looked nicer, and the iBook (IMHO) was more resistant to bangs and bumps. The PowerBook could take more RAM, and had a faster CPU and GPU. All that doesn't mean something supprising can't happen, but if there is a big price diffrence it would be supprising for there not to be stuff on the PowerBook that isn't on the iBook, eh?

Re:Core-Duo - really ?

[ArbitraryConstant]

"I would guess a new single-core pentium-M CPU"

I would have agreed until they put a dual-core chip in minis.

Re:Core-Duo - really ?

[Anonymous Coward]

If you put a crappy Core Solo in the ibook successor, know that the competition isn't as stupid as Apple.
http://www.ldlc.com/fiche/PB00036660.html

15" screen with a Core Duo. Not a crappy 13".

Oh, and lack of included wireless a differentiator ? you are talking about 2004, right ? even the cheapest laptop now have wireless built-in. (Wifi, but not bluetooth btw)

God knows how much i hate Apple fanatics.

Re:Core-Duo - really ?

[Anonymous Coward]

Way to toss out the option that basically costs nothing. When turning a 2.5k laptop into a 1.5k laptop, the $30 camera is surely the first step. They'll stuff the Mac Mini into a laptop case (which is what its guts were meant for anyway) that isn't made out of metal.

Re:Core-Duo - really ?

[_|()|\|]

The consumer line of laptops have had several differentiating features from the pro line.

I am optimistic that the MacBook will have decent features, even if some are limited to BTO or a more expensive configuration, for the following reasons:

• the Mac mini is excellent (dual-core, 2 GB, 120 GB), except for the integrated graphics buzz kill
• the video port on the iMac is no longer limited to mirroring
• it is rumored that there will be no 12"/13" MacBook Pro

I would not be impressed by a single-core laptop with integrated graphics.

Re:Core-Duo - really ?

[masklinn]

Are you aware that 15" are fuck fail for portable laptop? (and 17" are even worse of course). That's why some people are waiting for a Macbook (Pro or not) at or under 13" as their personal saviour.

10-14" is where you get laptops, over that it's undersized desktop with batteries.

Re:Core-Duo - really ?

[October_30th]

Uh... I was disappointed after the MacBook Pro release since they didn't make a small screen (12") version available.

For some people like me the screen size is not a priority. I'd rather have a lightweight (2 kg or less) laptop with a crystal clear 12" 1024x768 screen than a monster "laptop" with a heavy, energy sucking 15"-17" screen. Why? Because I like to actually carry my laptop around instead of using it as a fancy and expensive desktop replacement.

Re:Core-Duo - really ?

[be-fan]

Apple can't use single-core as a differentiator for the consumer and pro lines. Look at Intel's pricing scheme --- a Duo costs only a tiny bit more than a Solo. Intel wants dual-core CPUs at all levels of the market --- Apple can't get away with offering a Solo in a $1000 machine.

Re:Core-Duo - really ?

[be-fan]

I have to agree with you. I originally bought a "desktop replacement" Inspiron 8200. It was fast, but it was the worst of both worlds. It wasn't expandable as a desktop, and it was too big, heavy, and hot to use comfortably as a laptop (eg: no opening it on an airline tray table, for example). I finally decided to screw convergence, and got myself a big PowerMac and am looking to get on of the 13" Macbooks.

Re:Core-Duo - really ?

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you aware that that's bullshit? I've carried around a 15" laptop for six years now, and you have no fucking idea what you're talking about.

Re:Core-Duo - really ?

[OrangeTide]

Samsung and Dell are both offering a 19" model. Good grief! Have fun opening that up in an airline seat, even if you're in first class it's going to be tricky.

Re:Core-Duo - really ?

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you aware that 15" are fuck fail for portable laptop?

Are.. what? That sentence doesn't even make any sense. Try again.

Oh, and plenty of people thin 15" is just fine for a laptop. It's not their problem that you lack the upper body strength to carry one for any period of time.

Re:Core-Duo - really ?

[Silas Palmer-Cannon]

I would be willing to bet that the MacBook would include Airport and Bluetooth right out of the box. Why? Because the MacBook Pro's airport card is very different to the retail airport extreme card. They were able to include more expansion in the MacBook Pro because the airport extreme card is tiny compared to the regular airport extreme card, and I also suspect that the old airport extreme wasn't compatible with the logic board designed for the core duo processor.

I think that we will be seeing specs similar to the intel mac mini. One core solo model, one core duo... I can't wait to see the prices.

magnetic latching system threat to your floppies

[Ohreally_factor]

And by floppies, of course, I am referring to your testicles. Be very careful when snapping your mac book shut if you aren't wearing pants.

Apple hardware has suddenly become...

[Aphrika]

boring.

By virtue of its name the MacBook is a low-end version of the Pro. Fair enough, but the specs are pretty much going to be identical to the Pro version I guess, except with a lower end GFX card, less storage, smaller screen, slower CPU. I've suddenly stopped finding Apple hardware releases interesting.

Three or four years ago, it was kind of nice because there was a certain sense of innovation there and you really didn't know what to expect, but now I get a certain sense that Apple's product releases are going to be mainly governed by speedbump releases of Intel's CPUs from now on...

new Intel CPU == new Apple laptop, so expect to see a new range of Pros when Merom is released towards the and of Q3 this year, a new Xserve when Kentsville is out, and a new bunch of pro desktops when Conroe is released... unfortunate, but probably true.

this is news?

[mapkinase]

... and on this Tuesday Apple made announcement that they will announce on Saturday the date of the next announcement about their laptop.

Re:magnetic latching system threat to your floppie

[jb.hl.com]

If you had your testicles in between the keyboard and the lid when you shut the machine, then I'd be very worried.

Re:magnetic latching system threat to your floppie

[Anonymous Coward]

how else do you cum on a chick's face?

lol at magnets and computers

[Anonymous Coward]

move that 300gb firewire/usb drive a little too close and poof all your data gone to the land of the unrecoverable

Re:lol at magnets and computers

[Anonymous Coward]

Hmm.. No.

Will Apple ever release a sub-notebook?

[ad454]

It would be nice if Apple was less focused on the US car driving market and considered releasing a sub-notebook (<0.9kg) for those of us that walk, fly, and/or use public transit, and need to always carry around a computer. I have desktop computers with large displays at home and work, so I don't need to lug around a monstrosity, when I need a computer during commute and when traveling, just something small that easily fits in my purse.

As a frequent business traveler, I have been buying and using small Intel based Japanese sub-notebooks for 8 years, and would love to buy a Apple notebook that can run MacOSX, especially now that I can use bootcamp to multiboot other OS's as well. But I don't see that happening anytime soon.

Maybe Apple should licence an OQO or similar sized device and port their OS to it, if they aren't interested in building a sub-notebook from scratch.

Re:Will Apple ever release a sub-notebook?

[paskal]

They'd have to design a new notebook keyboard for anything smaller than the current 12" laptops.

I've used a few 12" laptops, and haven't found a more comfortable keyboard to use than Apple's, it's just so well laid out compared to others that try and cram too many keys into too small a space.

What it comes down to is that Apple feels that it has the right balance in its product offering, and that being a niche in a niche isn't worth it quite yet.

Re:Will Apple ever release a sub-notebook?

[Lally Singh]

Closest we've got is the iBook and 12" Powerbook. The 12" is a good machine, but it's also the smallest I think we'll get out of Apple anytime soon. They only make a few models and have to choose the markets they go after carefully. Only so many really talented engineers @ Apple, and we all know that you can't honestly hire really good engineers off the street.

Re:Will Apple ever release a sub-notebook?

[Anonymous Coward]

I have no doubt that Apple could make a 1/2 kg device. The question is where is the market. Right now the 12" powerbook is 70% of the cost of the OQO, an only 2.1 Kg. If we accept that Apple is 20% above even standard prices, the we have a 5" mac for 2400, and how many people are going to be a 5" mac for the same price as a 17". If the number were 0.01% of PC owners, then that would be good, but if it is 0.01% of mac owners, that is probably not good enough.

In a broader since, this question is when is Apple going to bring back the Newton. I wish they would. It was a bit about .5 kg, but updated with a Mac OS X it would be a dream.

Re:Will Apple ever release a sub-notebook?

[simpsone]

The most recent round of rumor sites that I have been looking at have started talking about a MacBook Thin. I haven't seen any actual details about this speculated product, but perhaps your wish will becoming true in the near future.

Re:Will Apple ever release a sub-notebook?

[feepness]

It would be nice if Apple was less focused on the US car driving market and considered releasing a sub-notebook (

Yeah! And they could call it the Newton!

Re:Will Apple ever release a sub-notebook?

[mean pun]

... and considered releasing a sub-notebook (

I'm sorry, but I really don't see your problem. I use my 12" iBook daily during my commute by Dutch train, and I don't have a problem. When I fly (tourist class) I can use it too. Yes, if you take it on a long hike it would be nice if it was even lighter, but the current one is something like 1.4kg, which is not exactly heavyweight either. And there are rumours that the new one will be lighter.

Look at it like this: all you have to do is diet a bit so that you are 0.5kg lighter yourself, and you can already travel with the total weight you would like to. :-)

Re:Will Apple ever release a sub-notebook?

[amper]

It's a nice thought, but it's not going to happen. There simply isn't enough of a market there for Apple to chase. Now what would be really useful is if Apple would make the "New iBook" with a 12" wide screen, rather than the 13" unit that's being touted. Size is specifically the reason why I bought a 12" iBook instead of a larger laptop. A laptop computer is never going to be my primary machine, so size is more important to me than a huge screen, but it still has to be useful, meaning it needs all the essentials built in.

Look at the 12" wide screen laptops from Sony and Dell that have the CD built in. *That's* what Apple needs to do with the new iBook line. Just an evolutionary update, nothing crazy.

Anything smaller needs to be a completely different paradigm. Think Newton MessagePad 2100 or Nokia 700 form factor--something that's more than a PDA, but less than a laptop. This is the class of devices that the market doesn't even know how badly it needs it. The Nokia 700 is a good effort, but Apple could do it so much better. Of course the problem with the "larger than pocket" size means the device and operating environment has to be so compelling that you're willing to carry it around in a bag rather than a pocket. Eight years on from the MP2100, I think technology has advanced enough to make it possible. Nokia had the right idea with a open source-based OS. Apple could do it, too, only better.

Think iPod Pro, not sub-mini laptop. Sony really blew it with the PSP, when they could have taken the world by storm.

Incidentally, if the new iBook doesn't sport a wide screen, I won't be replacing my 800MHz G3 12" iBook anytime soon, unless it finally breaks altogether.

Re:Will Apple ever release a sub-notebook?

[falconwolf]

It would be nice if Apple was less focused on the US car driving market and considered releasing a sub-notebook (

Though I wouldn't get, er buy that is as I've got a pda my sister gave me I've never used, or use a sub-notebook I don't really care if Apple comes out with one. Even for a laptop I want something relatively fast, a juicy hd, and lots of real estate, ie large screen. Weight, what's a little weight, a few pounds? Most of my traveling, getting around, is by foot or riding my bike and if I can't carry the weight of even a backpack loaded with a "heavy" laptop then I might as well hang it up, I carry much more than that in my backpack when I go grocery shopping. So as long as they don't stop working on larger laptops I don't mind if they also work on small ones.

Falcon

Re:Will Apple ever release a sub-notebook?

[kgp]

Given:

1. Origami and UMPC (remember Apple uses modified Intel platforms). The current versions aren't good enough (too heavy; too short battery life and crap (Windows) software).
   
2. The arrival of Merom and it's low voltage (LV) variant later this year or in 2007. This will help the battery life.
   
3. The speculation on a Mac Tablet (Apple Pantents and Ink in the system)
   
4. Increasing size of flash drives and Samsungs hybrid flash drives. This is going to be the biggest change in the next few years. The power consumption doesn't drop as much as you'd like but the heat drops a bit and the speed improvements are significant. MSFT is pushing the hybrids for Vista for fast booting. Apple will use them.
   

I think we might think that MWSF 2007 or perhaps WWDC 2007 might bring some interesting new hardware. Either lighter all-in-one notebooks as Jobs seems averse to dongles or tablets. Or perhaps (on the other side of the Mac/iPod divide) the fabled iPhone. For now Apple just has to ship the first Intel Mac in each of their product areas. Big innovation comes later.

One interesting point about the Macbook is how much it will weigh? How well will it compete against the Sony SZ at 4lbs? They "only" have to shed 0.7lb to get there with all the peripherials.

This speaks to a pricing issue Apple is going to have with this product. The 12" Albook has always been in a precarious position with fewer and fewer differentiating factors to justify the price. With the bottom end of the market moving down Apple has to do something if they want to price this over $1000. Light weight is one feature to sell, especially if Apple can deliver a Core Duo at "nearly 4lbs" for much less than $2000. There are Windows users who'd buy these machines but they're not bottom feeders. So like the mini don't expet bargain basement pricing (yet, Apple will reduce the price later).

I just don't think there's much room here for anything more than one each of Solo or Duo models (a la the Intel mini) with similar features to the Intel mac mini. And outside possibility is extra model. The third would be a 12" Albook replacement with ATI graphics (or both ATI and integrated graphics like the Sony SZ) but with the same apperancee and basic design as the

Hopefully the movable keyboard (like the iBook) will be replaced with the much nice fixed Albook like keyboard.

The misdirected mail mentioned on macintouch seems to imply black or white as a choice. Just like the iPod.

Re:Will Apple ever release a sub-notebook?

[Anonymous Coward]

Typing this a a 12" powerbook, yes the keyboard is nice, with a comfitable key stroke. My problem with the ergonomics of this laptop is the sharp corner around palm rest area. I much prefer the more contoured IBM X series palm rest area. Apple traded comfort for design IMO.

Re:Will Apple ever release a sub-notebook?

[JeremyALogan]

I am a pretty skinny guy (6'1" tall by 140lbs). My transportation currently consits of walking, bus/train, and motorcycling. I carry everything I take with me in a backpack (no saddlebags on the motorcycle, or anything like that). I have an old 12" 500MHz G3 iBook that I carry EVERYWHERE. I, honestly don't know what the problem is. Sure, I'd like something lighter, but this is more than light enough to be comfortable. If they could do better, weight wise, then more power to them. However, I can't imagine there being enough market for anything between what I have and a palm device. Even if they did come out with something smaller I would never buy it. One of the greatest things about all of the Apple laptops over the years is that they've kept a full-sized keyboard. Are you really willing to give up the ability to type well to save a few fractions of a pound (and get a lesser machine)?

Re:Will Apple ever release a sub-notebook?

[be-fan]

Ever try and open a 15" laptop in coach? Ever feel conspicuous opening up a big silver laptop in a meeting or on a class? There are absolutely tons of reasons for having small (~12") laptops, which is why everyone makes them.

Re:Will Apple ever release a sub-notebook?

[mrchaotica]

So? That shouldn't stop them from making a sub-kilogram (sub-two-pound) laptop; they'd just have to make it thinner and keep the same length and width. Heck, that would be the best solution anyway, since it could still have a nice big 12" screen. And, if they made it a tablet, it would be nice to write on too because your wrist wouldn't be hanging off it at an odd angle.

Re:Will Apple ever release a sub-notebook?

[mrchaotica]

One of the greatest things about all of the Apple laptops over the years is that they've kept a full-sized keyboard. Are you really willing to give up the ability to type well to save a few fractions of a pound (and get a lesser machine)?

But they don't have to ditch the keyboard (or the 12" screen) to make it lighter, because they can make it thinner instead of narrower.

However, I can't imagine there being enough market for anything between what I have and a palm device.

I can. A 2 pound, 12" tablet is exactly what I want, because I want to be able to walk around holding the thing in one hand while writing on it with the other (like with a clipboard). Apple has the technology (hardware and software) and design expertise to do this, and do it well. Why they choose not to is beyond me, because I've been hearing all kinds of people clamoring for exactly this for years now.

Re:Will Apple ever release a sub-notebook?

[JeremyALogan]

I suppose I should have qualified "smaller" with a short explanation. I agree that if they came out with something thinner/lighter it'd do well and I'd want one. I meant that I couldn't see there being a market for a machine with a screen smaller than 12 inches.

What I'd really like to see them do is cram a 17" screen into a 12" enclosure... I'm a whore for large screens, but don't want to carry around a larger machine. If they could make it one of those tablet/laptop convertables (eg. this gateway model) I'd give my right arm for it.

Re:Will Apple ever release a sub-notebook?

[falconwolf]

Ever try and open a 15" laptop in coach? Ever feel conspicuous opening up a big silver laptop in a meeting or on a class? There are absolutely tons of reasons for having small (~12") laptops, which is why everyone makes them.

There are plenty of reasons for small laptops and I'm not against them, I just want a bigger one myself and don't want Apple or any other manufacturer to stop making laptops bigger than 15".

Falcon

Re:Will Apple ever release a sub-notebook?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, you're a huge market demand!

Just like people saying how Apple will fail to capture the college market if they use integrated graphics- just because YOU and a few of your friends play games does not mean 95% of education will want extra graphics, or need it!

Why not just wait until Tuesday...

[hey]

... then we don't have to guess.

Re:Why not just wait until Tuesday...

[gEvil (beta)]

Do you have any idea how far away Tuesday is?!?

Re:Why not just wait until Tuesday...

[carpe_noctem]

But how would it be journalism if some amount of wild speculation wasn't involved?

Re:Why not just wait until Tuesday...

[Rakshasa Taisab]

No matter what happens on Tuesday, I'll still be getting my 17" MacBook Pro on wednesday.

Re:Why not just wait until Tuesday...

[Anonymous Coward]

Its called: Keeping up with the Digg's.

Re:Why not just wait until Tuesday...

[ThousandStars]

Yeah! We don't even know which Tuesday the grandparent means -- it could be infinitely far away.

Re:Why not just wait until Tuesday...

[zlogic]

Well, the stupid management in my university have declared that today is Monday, tomorrow will be Saturday and the day after tomorrow is Sunday.
This is not a joke! This May 9 celebration (Russian victory in WWII) causes crazy holiday and workday shifts. So I don't even know which day will actually be Tuesday.

Is AMD faster ?

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple has a reputation for making fast computers, but is one better off using AMD64 and linux for now?

Re:Is AMD faster ?

[Anonymous Coward]

No.

MacBook Pros and Core Duos

[segedunum]

Do those two names strike anyone else as a bit silly? I wish Apple had kept the PowerBook name.

Re:MacBook Pros and Core Duos

[HairyCanary]

Without a PowerPC chip inside... keeping the PowerBook name would have been a bit silly.

Re:MacBook Pros and Core Duos

[Anonymous Coward]

That's completely unsupportable reasoning. PowerBooks existed for many years before they had PowerPC chips in them!

Re:MacBook Pros and Core Duos

[segedunum]

Powerbooks have existed for years, without PowerPC chips in them. The name just sounded much better.

Re:MacBook Pros and Core Duos

[PygmySurfer]

Why? The PowerBook name predates Apple's use of PowerPC processors. I think PowerBook Duo would've been just fine.

Re:MacBook Pros and Core Duos

[raodin]

The name Powerbook Duo has already been used. If they brought back the name without the features, it would be pretty dissapointing.

Re:MacBook Pros and Core Duos

[g-doo]

"MacBook Pro" doesn't quite roll off the tongue as nicely as "Powerbook". The syllables in "MacBook Pro" seem much choppier. The new labels are also confusing with regards to the "i" product line (iBook, iMac) and the "Power" product line (Powerbook, PowerMac).

My guess is that people are going to find a shortened name for "MacBook Pro" in the same manner that people came up with "Al-book" and "Ti-book", and that's where the "MacBook Pro" and "MacBook" naming similarity is going to be troublesome.

Re:MacBook Pros and Core Duos

[PygmySurfer]

You're right, I forgot all about the old Duos. Maybe that's why the name sounded so nice.. :)

Re:MacBook Pros and Core Duos

[mrchaotica]

If they brought back the name without the features, it would be pretty dissapointing.

Why? Docking is a misfeature, because they can just put everything onboard and still have the same weight anyway.

Well, it is unless you're talking about something like this, where the dock is used for synchronizing with a desktop as if the laptop were a PDA (in fact, something like this Actius would be wonderful for Apple to copy, especially if they could make it a tablet).

Re:MacBook Pros and Core Duos

[R3d M3rcury]

Well, when PowerBooks came out, they had Motorola 68K processors.

The "Power" in PowerBooks referred to the old marketing line, The Power to be your best.

Re:MacBook Pros and Core Duos

[raodin]

The point really isn't whether you like docking or not, rather that its a brand name that has already been used, and would be misleading to people who do remember the old Powerbook Duos.

There were also features in the old Duo Dock that you certainly couldn't put onboard a laptop at all, and certainly not a sub-notebook. Full-size expansion slots and a second hard drive aren't features on any laptop I've ever seen. :)

Two reasons, IMO

[DavidinAla]

First, Apple needs to get schools looking at these models for next year. If the company waits much later, schools are already going to make plans based on existing models.

Second, I doubt Apple thinks it will be upstaged in ANY way by Nintendo -- and I think that judgment will be correct. Many gamers and geeks will be paying attention to Nintendo's announcement, but an Apple announcement will greatly upstage it in terms of media attention, IMO.

David

Re:Two reasons, IMO

[Anonymous Coward]

OH MAN! nintendo definitely freaking upstaged apple, hah.

Red Hot Chili Peppers Event Expected on Tuesday

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple Stores are hosting a pre-release event for the Red Hot Chili Peppers on Tuesday, May 9th. MacBooks will not be released on the same day.

Re:Red Hot Chili Peppers Event Expected on Tuesday

[Anonymous Coward]

You mean their new cd was not out yet?

I'm pretty sure I have it on my HD somewhere...

Re:Red Hot Chili Peppers Event Expected on Tuesday

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple Stores are hosting a pre-release event for the Red Hot Chili Peppers on Tuesday, May 9th. MacBooks will be released on the same day.

Re:Red Hot Chili Peppers Event Expected on Tuesday

[bob122989]

Won't they have RHCP's do a live show at the event just after announcing that you can buy it from itunes on your new macbook?

Re:Red Hot Chili Peppers Event Expected on Tuesday

[Anonymous Coward]

so what? that wouldn't matter.

also, that RHCP event was on Tuesday, May 2nd; it already happened.

Re:Red Hot Chili Peppers Event Expected on Tuesday

[Anonymous Coward]

Dullard. They have the RHCP special event, then they announce the MacBook. People flock to hear the Chilis, then they notice the new MacBook. Everybody wins.

Innovation

[mobby_6kl]

OMG Apple is teh innovator again! Magnetic latching system and built in iSight video camera! Wow, Steve, my Lord, I love you! This has never been done before!

Not everybody...

[Savage-Rabbit]

By virtue of its name the MacBook is a low-end version of the Pro. Fair enough, but the specs are pretty much going to be identical to the Pro version I guess, except with a lower end GFX card, less storage, smaller screen, slower CPU. I've suddenly stopped finding Apple hardware releases interesting.

... is a Hardware fetishist. The specs of the MacBook Pro vs the lower end MacBook will not be all that much different than those of the G4 PowerBook were when compared to the old iBook line. The MacBook [Pro] still holds it's own when compared to the vast majority of PC laptops available on the market today in terms of innovative design. With a handful of exceptions the competitors still look like bricks by comparison which was already true when they were compared to the G4 PowerBooks three years ago. Not that the Hardware is the most attractive part of Apple computers anyway it's the OS, it's ease of use and the various specialist applications that the Macintosh platform excels at... and lets not forget the complete absence (so far) of malware.

Not a rumor

[localman]

The 17" macbook pro's are shipping. I have a tracking number, in any case! We'll see how long it takes fedex to get them here from Shanghai.

Cheers.

Shameless Plug

[cbelle13013]

If you want one of the 15" ones, feel free to sign up and get Free MacBook Pro. That's the $2,499 one.

This is my first time trying one of these things, I hope it actually arrives.

Re:Shameless Plug

[wjcofkc]

You were shooting for score:5, Funny - right?

Re:Shameless Plug

[DrXym]

If you want one of the 15" ones, feel free to sign up and get Free MacBook Pro. That's the $2,499 one. This is my first time trying one of these things, I hope it actually arrives.

And hopefully it's your last time trying one of these things. It looks like a matrix marketing scam. I notice you included your link so you must be aware of that. The chances of actually getting a MacBookPro probably hover just around the 0 mark.

Re:Shameless Plug

[cbelle13013]

Wow, modded flamebait.

What these programs bank on is that people will fail to get 20 other people to sign up. Lets say that just a tenth of a percent actually get all 20 who actually complete the offers. So 1000 or so complete an offer. The company gets its commission of $10 or so, they will make $10k, and have to purchase a $2500 product to do so. It's actually hugely profitable for them to do so. On the other hand, my single link on slashdot has gotten roughly 50 more people to sign up (with about 10 being fake, thanks liar@dev.null). I'll be more than happy to come back in a month and admit defeat or victory.

Re:Shameless Plug

[feepness]

And hopefully it's your last time trying one of these things. It looks like a matrix marketing scam. I notice you included your link so you must be aware of that. The chances of actually getting a MacBookPro probably hover just around the 0 mark.

And yet his chances are still infinitely greater than yours (under that offer).

Funny how that works... and no... I never sign up for them either.

Re:Shameless Plug

[DrXym]

And yet his chances are still infinitely greater than yours (under that offer).

Perhaps, but then I don't have to sign up to some shitty offer and persuade 5 of my friends (and each of them persuade 5 more friends etc.) to sign up too. All for the remote chance that the affiliate fees will cover a MacBookPro for the guy at the top of the chain.

Considering a bottom of the range MacBookPro costs $2000, this site probably expects to rake in $4000 before sending one out. Assuming $5 in affiliate fees are earned from every rube, that means 1 MacBookPro for every 800 people. Therefore your odds of getting one are at least 1 in 800.

It's no wonder the site is so light on details. It's a scam.

Re:Shameless Plug

[TheRaven64]

If they solicit in the UK, then they can be prosecuted for holding an illegal lottery. One of the Free iPod scams was last year.

Re:Shameless Plug

[cbelle13013]

Does this article in Wired change your mind at all? http://www.wired.com/news/mac/0,2125,64614,00.html .

Re:Shameless Plug

[DrXym]

No it doesn't. Simple economics and common sense should be enough to realise you are not going to get a $2000 laptop merely for referring a handful of friends to some low paying sites with an affiliate link. Let's be generous and assume NetFlix the maximum $30 affiliate referral for new customers. How does $300 become $2000? How does $300 become $4000 to cover expenses and profits? It doesn't. The scheme is a scam. There is nothing more to it than that.

If you think different, supply a link which states with exactness how many people you need to recruit to be guaranteed a MacBookPro. Betcha can't.

You're not supporting your argument

[DavidinAla]

If you want to argue that THIS particular notebook won't be earthshatteringly innovative, that would be a reasonable argument (assuming that the reports about what it will have are true). The new MacBook will be a logical lower-end extension of the MacBook Pro. But to make the sweepting statement that Apple hardware is now boring is totally unsupported by any facts that I know or anything you covered in your post. Apple's lineup of hardware is very strong, IMO. The fact that we don't currently expect anything fascinating in this one product doesn't make the entire company's hardware boring (or anything close to it).

David

Re:You're not supporting your argument

[byolinux]

So far all we've seen from the Intel chip move is a bunch of existing products, essentially rebadged.

I believe what the parent refers to are things like.. Where's the *new* iMac - that's a different design to the iMac G5, Where's the new PowerMac (MacPro?), Where the new designed hardware? iPod Stereo? Hah.

For a hardware fan, Jobs isn't really anything particularly revolutionary here!

Re:You're not supporting your argument

[nuggetman]

I believe what the parent refers to are things like.. Where's the *new* iMac - that's a different design to the iMac G5, Where's the new PowerMac (MacPro?), Where the new designed hardware? I think the point Apple is trying to make with the iMac G5 and Intel iMac/PowerBook and MacBook Pro looking similar is that it's still the same Macintosh and still runs the same software. They're trying to keep some familiarity for those worried about this Intel transition.

Re:magnetic latching system threat to your floppie

[Anonymous Coward]

Print outs.

No special event?

[Chief Typist]

If the MacBook is going to be as innovative/different as everyone seems to think (widescreen, etc.) then why isn't there going to be a special event where they can tout it?

Even if it's a small one like they had for the mini and iPod HiFi introduction...

And if they are going to have one of these events, they need to give the press time to schedule it. Send out invites, etc.

-ch

Re:No special event?

[penguin-collective]

A 13" MacBook is a nice product, but what's "innovative" about it?

Re:No special event?

[ajw_h]

Come on! It's a whole inch bigger, how much more innovative can you get?

First hand experience of macs

[thelandp]

Speaking of one who has a mac (work-provided) I have to say that apple has nice packaging but they are bum (to use a technical term). They don't support the software I want. They're good for design but that's about it. Not wanting to start a religious war, just stating an opinion.

Re:First hand experience of macs

[truespin]

"They don't support the software I want." it is the software company that doesn't support OS X rather than Apple not supporting the software and with bootcamp you can just boot into windows XP and run any non OS X apps from there... "They're good for design but that's about it" bzzzt wrong.

Re:First hand experience of macs

[MustardMan]

Religious war? More like a troll. Try giving some examples to support your opinion. Good for design and that's about it? What rock have you been hiding under? I know a TON of scientists who are using macs, because OS X has the ability to run all the UNIX tools we are accustomed to, but they have an easy to use interface and all the business type software that's missing from a linux machine. Plus, being able to drop into an apple store in any major city to get help when your video out isn't working and you have to give that powerpoint presentation tomorrow is a nice bonus.

The whole "they don't have the software" argument has been dead for a long time - the only markets where OS X software isn't up to par with windows are niche ones - specialized proprietary software with a small user base, or things like games. As much as it might shock some people, most people don't buy their computers to play games.

Come on, if you're going to bash macs, update your talking points. 1998 called, it wants its troll back.

Re:First hand experience of macs

[Anonymous Coward]

Dual boot Windoze then dumbazz... That's what boot camp is for...

Re:First hand experience of macs

[penguin-collective]

because OS X has the ability to run all the UNIX tools we are accustomed to,

Well, it's a little more complicated than that. Some UNIX tools port easily to OS X, others are a pain to port. The situation with OS X is better than Windows, but it's not a drop-in replacement for UNIX.

and all the business type software that's missing from a linux machine

You'd be surprised... there actually isn't much of a difference.

Plus, being able to drop into an apple store in any major city to get help when your video out isn't working and you have to give that powerpoint presentation tomorrow is a nice bonus.

That and the nice looks of the machine are their main advantages. Fortunately, Linux runs on them, so you can have the best of both worlds: Apple hardware and Linux software.

Re:First hand experience of macs

[SeaFox]

I have to say that apple has nice packaging but they are bum (to use a technical term). They don't support the software I want.

Can you elaborate on that? If you mean they don't support Windows software, well that's like saying the Apple orchard doesn't support orange juice production. If they don't support some specific piece MacOSX written software package then I would have to ask since when is it the OS maker's job to support the software? That's the software company's job. I don't complain to Microsoft when Firefox crashes on my XP machine.

Re:First hand experience of macs

[masklinn]

Why dual boot when you can virtualize?

Re:First hand experience of macs

[MrTheBunny]

I've been considering buying my first Apple laptop since they switched to Intel, and looked at both the Boot Camp and Parallels options to have Windows on the side for when I need it (work, games).

Bottom line : Based on the many reviews I read of Parallels beta, virtualization is A LOT more practical than dual booting, since you don't need to reboot. The speed loss is there, but not that much.

HOWEVER, forget about it if you want to play games or any application that uses the 3D features of the graphics card heavily (BTW has anyone tried Solidworks on the MacBook?). In those cases, dual booting is the only viable option since the performance loss is VERY present.

DISCLAMER: Again, I haven't tried those myself, only read the reviews. And I would love to have feedback from people who did test both.

Re:First hand experience of macs

[JulesLt]

The myth that they are 'design' machines really needs to die. Maybe back in the late 80s, when the only WYSIWYG DTP software available was on the Mac, but the Adobe, Macromedia and Quark software used by most 'design' types has long been designed / developed in a cross-platform way. By numbers, there is more design software on the PC.

I don't really think there is a lot that makes the Mac an inherently better platform for 'design' - or rather, I don't think there is anything that makes the Mac a better platform for design that doesn't ALSO apply to other fields.

As for software support in general - as a software developer who uses both PCs and Macs, I've not found myself stuck for anything. I use different programs on both machines, but you can achieve the same functionality on both platforms. Sometimes I find myself cursing not having Expose, Xylescope, native PDF support or the Omni apps on the PC. Sometimes, as with Oracle XE, the problem is in the other direction.

If you're not a troll, I'd suggest developing a bit of curiosity towards the systems you use, and a bit of flexibility with your tools - it could pay dividends for your career.

Re:First hand experience of macs

[MonkeyT]

the only markets where OS X software isn't up to par with windows are niche ones - specialized proprietary software with a small user base, or things like games.

uh, niche markets like accounting? The latest version of Quickbooks Pro for Mac is an improvement (most definitely not the crippled, half-assed version they use to promote), but it's still not not reached feature parity with the PC version and it can't work with PCs on a multi-user license, which means your office has to be all one platform or the other unless you're really comfortable importing and exporting critical data a lot. The Mac only alternatives are cool, but finding any CPA or bookkeeping firms to verify your small business accounting that accepts anything other than a Quickbooks Pro file is a monumental task.

For most individual users, there's Mac software that's as good or better than the PC otpions, but there's still a huge gap in several very important areas which are far too large and important to call niche.

Re:First hand experience of macs

[bcnstony]

I don't complain to Microsoft when Firefox crashes on my XP machine.

Maybe not to Microsoft. But about Microsoft? Come-on, be honest. Get it off your chest. We all do it.

Re:First hand experience of macs

[Anonymous Coward]

Final Cut Pro.

Re:First hand experience of macs

[Anonymous Coward]

We use Macs and PCs. On the whole, I find PC users to be ignorant and useless, and Mac users to be arrogant and annoying.

I have to have time for both, but I wish I had time for none...

Re:First hand experience of macs

[Brandybuck]

but it's not a drop-in replacement for UNIX.

It is a drop-in replacement, because it *IS* UNIX! Your precious proprietary Linux binaries might not work, but most everything open source can be recompiled with few or no changes.

Re:First hand experience of macs

[penguin-collective]

Yeah, you can recompile, if you have the time and patience. You can even use Fink or DarwinPorts, which requires less time and patience, but not much.

In the end, even with lots of time and patience, you still only get a small fraction of the software that comes standard with a Linux desktop distribution, and it ends up working nowhere near as well, among other things, because Apple's X11 implementation isn't very good. And even to the degree that it does work, OS X applications won't interoperate well with X11 applications.

Running UNIX and Linux apps on OS X is a stop-gap measure, it's not something you want to do day-to-day. I've tried, and in the end, I erased all Linux ports from my Mac--I'd prefer many of them to their Mac equivalents, but they just don't work well enough under OS X to use regularly.

Will these be called laptops...

[ABoerma]

...or will they get screaming hot like the MacBooks Pro do, thus preventing you from actually putting one on your lap?

Re:Will these be called laptops...

[euice]

if you want to preserve your virility and still use a macbook pro on your lap, use iLap. Sinve I got it, there is no more reason for me to stand up from the couch and sit in front of a desktop computer ;-)

Re:Will these be called laptops...

[Zaphod2016]

Very true: the MacBookPro gets VERY warm, VERY quick. In fact, in all honesty, I have probably forfeited my ability to have children.

Worth it. Totally worth it.

Best. Laptop. Ever. And before anyone says "mac fanboy" (no contest) let me at least say that this is my first Apple since my IIe circa '85.

Re:Will these be called laptops...

[linvir]

People read too much into the word 'laptop'. All the non-English languages I know anything about don't have the 'put it on your lap' connection in their word for laptop.

That being said, my laptop averages between 50 and 60 degrees, and yet I can easily use it on my lap. It's simple, you just rest it on a long, thin hardback book. That way you don't block the fans and it doesn't burn you.

And before anyone does the 'back in the day' speech, I also have an old Compaq laptop which doesn't run particularly hot and doesn't have fans on the bottom, and yet I can't use that on anything but a desk because of its sheer weight. Laptops have never really been for peoples' laps.

not the same book

[wickedsteve]

Know that there is a difference between the Macbook (iBook) and the Macbook Pro (Powerbook).

Re:not the same book

[localman]

I know... I'm just saying that in contrast to the rumore about the possible MacBook (iBook) release, I've got facts that the 17" MacBook Pro (Powerbook) has shipped. Three days early, in fact.

Cheers.

Re:not the same book

[Zaphod2016]

About a month ago, after seeing that post, I would probably have said to myself: "what kind of jackass goes out of there way to discuss buying a new laptop?

Today, after seeing that post, I said to myself: "yeah, FedEx is too damn slow."

What changed? Why, I bought a MacBookPro of course. :)

BEST. LAPTOP. EVER.

Re:not the same book

[localman]

ha ha

Duh, MacBook

[fermion]

Some of these rumours are just, like, what do you expect.

The pro line is called the MacBook Pro, so the consumer line is called the MacBook. I expect the Intel towers, if they ever appear, to be called the Mac, MacTower, MacPC, or the like. They do seem to be moving away from the brand of 'power' to the brand of book.

As far as the screen size, the industry does seen to be standardizing on the 13.3 screen as the small entrant. In terms of cost, this is probably the best choice for the entry level portable. What is interesting is that this probably means that we will see a consolodation of the iBook and Powerbook into a Macbook. The MacBook will be a compromise dimension betwen 12 and 15 inches, while the pro models will be 15 and 17 inches.

Which also leaves the 12" models in limbo. These are really a perfect size, and if the 12" PowerBooks are ever $800 dollars I may buy one, as we are unlikely to see such a machine again. I wonder how long Apple is going to produce PowerPC based macines, which is, really to ask, how long until the PowerMacs are replaced. Or is Apple just going to produce laptops and media centers, and leave the pro image editing to the MS crowd? I shudder to think.

In any case, we will see what happens over the next few day and the next year. Certainly Apple has plenty of time to pull an rabbit out of it's hat since we won't see big PC sales until christmas of 2007 when MS vista will be ready for prime time.

Oh, the joys of life. Perhaps I will get a PowerMac G5 yet, even if they slurp electricity like it is water.

Re:Duh, MacBook

[MustardMan]

They do seem to be moving away from the brand of 'power'

Holy shit, you mean to tell me now that they no longer use powerpc chips, they are moving away from the power brand? God damn, mod parent +100 insightful.

As far as your speculation that they might just stop updating the pro desktop lines... WTF? Seriously, there's nothing else to say but WTF.

Re:Duh, MacBook

[arloguthrie]

I expect the Intel towers, if they ever appear, to be called the Mac, MacTower, MacPC, or the like.

Actually, I would expect the Intel towers to be called the "Mac Pro" to mirror the portable line. In fact, I expect the Xserve to change its name to Mac Serve or Mac Server.

Considering Apple would like to have their pro software -- Aperture, Final Cut, Logic, Shake -- and the pro software of others -- Photoshop, AfterEffects -- run blazingly fast for those of us who use Macs, have no doubt that Intel towers are coming, and they're most likely coming on August 7.

Re:Duh, MacBook

[wadetemp]

The Power brand has nothing to do with PowerPC... it's merely coincidence. PowerBook existed 4 years or so before there was ever a PowerPC-based Mac.

Re:Duh, MacBook

[NutscrapeSucks]

Sez you. But POWER is still an IBM trademark, and it would not suprise me if Apple had signed away their rights to the term.

Re:Duh, MacBook

[tonywong]

Uh, how about Mac Pro?

Re:Duh, MacBook

[theurge14]

I wonder how long Apple is going to produce PowerPC based macines, which is, really to ask, how long until the PowerMacs are replaced.

Well, during Steve Job's keynote in January, he said the whole year of 2006 would be the complete product line transition to Intel. It's only May, and we've already seen the iMac, the Mac Mini, and the MacBook Pros. That only leaves MacBooks and then the desktops. Not bad for a few months.

Re:Duh, MacBook

[NutscrapeSucks]

I wonder how long Apple is going to produce PowerPC based macines, which is, really to ask, how long until the PowerMacs are replaced.

Now that Apple's on Intel, you don't really have to sit around wondering these things. Conroe (Intel Core Desktop CPU) and Woodcrest (Intel Core Workstation/Server CPU aka Xeon) will be out in Q3 2006, which is perfect timing for Apple's Developer Conference in in August.

If have any questions about Intel's roadmap, check out http://www.theinquirer.net/ , their information is usually spot on. It is a safe assumption that Apple will adopt Intel chips as they come out just as Dell and everyone else does.

Re:Duh, MacBook

[Queer Boy]

I wonder how long Apple is going to produce PowerPC based macines, which is, really to ask, how long until the PowerMacs are replaced.

Probably when there's a compelling reason for professionals with a Quad G5 2.5 and 16GB of RAM to run Photoshop, InDesign/Quark non-natively.

Re:Duh, MacBook

[DietFluffy]

because the 13.3 is wide screen it will have an area of 76 square inches versus 70 on the standard 12.1. this is an increase of 8.5%, so depending on the design of the macbook (they might be able to trim the border of the lcd and rumors are saying that it's thinner than the current powerbook), it might be the same size as the current 12.1 inch powerbook.

Re:Duh, MacBook

[R3d M3rcury]

Actually, I could see them spelling it out--"Macintosh Pro."

Yeah

[metamatic]

I have an old G3 iBook, and it's too big. To get me to buy another portable they need to offer something comparable to a Sony VAIO 505 in form factor. Or preferably, a tablet Mac, but I doubt Steve's biases will let that happen.

In comparison to what?

[jpellino]

Cause the PC laptop offerings have heads spinning? Please.
Or because there's no tablet (hint- they won't do it until they get it right - after two PC stumbles, who can blame them)?
Or because the Apple market has held its own and continues to build eas of use and value? Count me in.

Case in point. My wife just bought the latest Acer which has the touted features of:
- brightview screen (a shiny piece of plastic that produces glare and fingerprints at an astounding rate)
- constant light for the bluetooth status (thanks - eats batteries)
- constant light for the wifi status (ditto batteries)
- constant light for the battery, num lock, cap lock (all of which are mirrored in the taskbar anyway)
- three USB ports Woohoo! One more than an iBook!
- a four cell battery which is an eight cell battery with four cells torn out. Honestly, you can squeeze the case and feel where the missing cells are supposed to be.
- 2.5 hour battery life if you spring for the 8 cell battery separately.
- Speed. It's a 2.something, if I turn off all the fancy XP graphics under system performance, it can almost keep up with my 1.33 iBook for general use with a few apps open.
- software. none. after loading her up with picasa and itunes, whenever something mildly novel comes up, she shuts the lid and asks me to do it on the iBook. And she knows how to work a PC - she does it all day at her job. She's a wiz at office + access, but for real world stuff, the integration just isn't there - they made this point in one of the new apple ads - and it's about time.

I'd rather spend my time getting the work done than figuring out the workaround or forking over the license fee for getting it done on a PC.

Re:In comparison to what?

[bealzabobs_youruncle]

What an absurd post, do you really think those little status lights eat that much battery? What do licensing fees have to do with original hardware? Don't knock Windows laptops because you bought a piece of junk, my Dell XPS M140 is fast, sports 6+ hours of battery life, feels and runs solid and is so much faster than my G4 iBook I sold it. The only issue with factory XP laptops is the need to usually wipe and reload the system without all the factory "free" stuff, too bad there is so much junk software out there to contend with when you buy OEM.

In reference to licensing software, my XPS is now loaded with a clean install of XP Pro, and virtually every other piece of software is either freeware or OSS. So if you and the wife are truly computer wizards why is it neither of you can find SourceForge and she has to relegate all the "interesting" work to your slow iBook?

Re:In comparison to what?

[jpellino]

OK maybe 'eat' was a bit much. but 12 LEDs? they certainly use more battery power than the equivalent pixels on my osx screen.
nobody claimed to be a wizard, we can operate a pretty wide range of apps.
I'm pointing out the contrast between the mac experience and the pc experience.
we don't want to come home and solve all the little things we have to work on all day. we want it to work.
i have plenty of oss stuff. some of it's pretty cool, some well done, there are some keepers.
show me the ilife suite done as oss and approach the integration i get with something like .mac
BTW since you paid at least twice as much for the xps, i'd certainly expect it to have much better performance than the iBook.
i'm comparing two $800 laptops.

13" MacBook Pro

[jdbartlett]

I hope they come up with a 13.3" MacBook Pro. I use a 12" PowerBook right now; it's so handy and small, I don't want a bigger laptop! Of course, Tuesday's 13.3" MacBook may have all the features of my PowerBook and then some. Just have to wait and see, I guess.

Re:13" MacBook Pro

[xrobertcmx]

I am with you on this. I have no interest in a low end 12in MacBook or whatever they choose to call it unless it can live up to the Pro line. I love my 12in Powerbook and like the fact that I can take it with me everywhere and have no issues with size or bulk. It was the only reason I even bought a MAC to begin with. I don't want to see them push some halfway model to market that is cross between an Ibook and a Powerbook. If they do I can just go buy a 12in Windows machine for half the cost and dump SuSE on it.

Re:13" MacBook Pro

[kabz]

For me the perfect new Mac laptop would be the Core Duo Mini specs with a 1280x960 screen. Plenty of USB ports, at least one FW400 port, and keeping about the same size and shape as my 12" AlBook, which is near perfect in everything except screen, and has a great keyboard.

Apple is doing a better job with screens these days, and I really hope they deliver something better than the somewhat anaemic 1024x768 on the PB.

$1200 or $1300 would be perfectly acceptable seeing as a machine with these specs would be replacing the previous $1500 12" PowerBook. Lets hope we see a basic model at $1000, and the hotter model a few hundred above it.

Integrated graphics are fine. The Intel stuff has been pretty decent for years, and the GMA950 is their best yet.

Re:13" MacBook Pro

[jdbartlett]

I think the 2 USB ports is fine on a 12/13", any more would probably be clutter.

The 12" 1024x760 was quite an upgrade for me - my last laptop was a cheap 15" Wintel with the same max resolution.

It's a controversial opinion, especially here on /., but I agree with you on integrated graphics. Integrated graphics are fine for laptops.

Re:13" MacBook Pro

[SenorCitizen]

For me the perfect new Mac laptop would be the Core Duo Mini specs with a 1280x960 screen.

Won't happen. Apple have been moving towards widescreens for years now, and the 12" laptops were the last 4:3 screens. 1280x800 it will be.

BTW, am I the only one annoyed by the huge variety of different aspect ratios? Just 4:3 and 16:9 would be enough IMO, but we've got 5:4, 15:10, 16:10 and who knows what else on the market... not to mention that every LCD TV available uses a 1366x768 (or 1360x768!) panel instead of a 1280x720 one... :/

Re:magnetic latching system threat to your floppie

[Anonymous Coward]

You worry about his testicles? Your relationship must be close indeed.

In comparison to past Apples...

[Aphrika]

You see, the key to Apple was product differentiation. I don't think people really understand what Apple has taken on when it moved to Intel.

Essentially it's moved its entire product lifecycle up a gear. You'll see newer, faster Apples appearing much more frequently than you used to, because Intel release interim speedbump chips throughout the year - maybe as many as 5 or 6. For Apple, this is a good thing.

But, Intel also releases a new platform technology every year or so, so when Yonah's successor Merom is released, Apple has no choice but to do the same, otherwise it has a marketing dilemma of people doing a like-for-like speed comparison between a Yonah Mac and a Merom PC.

Now, we know that comparing Macs to PCs is apples and oranges, but Joe Public doesn't know that and would possibly plump for a fast new Dell over what on paper looks like a slower, older Mac.

The other downside is that by keeping up with Intel releases, Apples are going to date a lot faster. In a year, the 15" Macbook Pro will be a slow Macbook Pro assuming Apple keep up with Intel. Now it may not be slow to use as OSX software doesn't seem to bloat as fast as PC stuff, but it could potentially cause confusion for new buyers.

The bottom line is that essentially, Apple have rescinded some of their control over their product line development. While they can innovate on peripheral elements such as illuminated screens, magnetic power cords and the like, the core of their machine is now owned by Intel and they are going to have a much tougher time exhibiting the kind of product differentiation that they have been able to in the past.

Re:In comparison to past Apples...

[Morky]

The only thing Apple had been able to do lately by differentiating in the world of processors was to produce slower machines. Apple was right to get off that treadmill, as it really no longer provided any benefit. It's like diffentiating yourself in the world of trains by having wheels that produce more friction.

Re:In comparison to past Apples...

[JeremyALogan]

Not to nit-pick because I agree with your premise, but my understanding is that Apple has already dedicated itself to the Merom and Conroe processor lines. I have a feeling that Apple and Intel REALLY got in to bed together to make this all go off without a hitch. I wouldn't be surprised if Apple starts being the reference design for Intel's chips.

Re:In comparison to past Apples...

[zblack_eagle]

In a year, the 15" Macbook Pro will be a slow Macbook Pro assuming Apple keep up with Intel.

As opposed to the PPC G4s that were going nowhere? That wasn't something that Apple wanted, that was IBM not keeping up with Apple. As long as Intel's marketing department doesn't again seize control of development chanting "Gigahertz!" or some other singular aspect of chip design, there shouldn't be a repeat of this problem for Apple.

Just another laptop!

[drspliff]

Disclaimer: It's been a long day, I'm tired, I have no money and I have clients breathing down my neck.

Do I care about apple releasing an Intel based laptop? NO I bloody don't!

There are loads out there already, for all I care Apple could buy a load, paint them white and put an Apple logo on the back and the lemmings will still flock to buy them!

Sure: OS X, QA/testing, warranty, support etc. but it's not really newsworthy until they actually make the press release and send some out for previews/reviews at the tech sites.

We all know Apple will probably make a underwear-fillingly-large load of money from this, it's nothing special (while the newish UltraSPARC laptops and HP Toughbooks are!) and this article only really gives all the Apple/OSX fans time to hype it up.

I thought I'd never have to say this and give in to the cliche slashdot saying, but:

Move along people, there's nothing to see here!

I dunno...

[TCK314]

I'm prepared for another iPod Hifi myself.

Apple may not have a choice.

[Shivetya]

Seeing that Intel is pushing Duos very hard. Dell is delivering Duo notebooks at the 699 price point, mostly when you catch them on one of their "sales". I have seen 15.4" versions with default options hitting as low as 649 for a 1.66 Duo.

Now some will say that Apple does not have to consider Dell or XP notebooks in their plans I think they do. The price segment the new MacBook will be headed into will be up against the bulk of the XP systems out there. Also take note that many college age kids will look at prices and features. Since most work can be done just fine on XP systems for school work Apple will have to consider their offering closely.

Things I expect. At minimum a 13.3 screen, probably a 14 as those screens are in good supply. Base model will be a Core-Solo and max will probably be a 1.83 Duo. Integrated graphics will probably be default but they honestly should at least offer a X1400 256mb option as this feature will appeal to many college age users as well as those looking for a lower priced system to run both X and XP. We probably won't see drives as large as the Pro and will see a 4200rpm in the base model. Gigabit ethernet, USB2, FW400 and a cardslot are a given (chipsets are common for all, it probably would be more to actually get an old 10/100 chipset). figure a good keyboard without backlight but I expect iSight.

Get a x1400 256mb, Duo 166, 512 base (2gb max) out the door for 1299 and I will be all over it.

Re:Apple may not have a choice.

[doormat]

Bah, where are my modpoints when I need them.

I agree mostly, a lot of Mac Fanbois say you can ignore Dell. But thats really not the case if Apple wants this new advertising campaign to go anywhere and increase their market share. They (the fanbois and Apple) can sit around with their noses up in the air and keep a 3-4% marketshare or they can start to figure out what will move switchers.

And Apple doesnt have to match Dell prices, but it is very important to remain competitive from a value standpoint. Including stuff like iLife and Front Row are important if they are going to charge more.

I still think we'll see three models - all come with 13.3" screens, 40-60GB HDs, 512MB... $899 core solo pushed towards edu (and of course, cheaper in bulk amounts for schools), $1099 for a 1.66 duo and $1299 for a 1.83 duo. BTO X1400 graphics available on the duo models for $200 or so (Dell has this exact option so I know its fesiable - On their Inspiron E1505 you get GMA950 by default, and you can BTO X1300 128MB or X1400 256MB for $99 and $179 respectively).

The 1.83 might be pushing it, but I think Intel is going to release their 2.33Ghz top end chip soon enough - and then the 1.83s will vanish from the Pro line and we'll see 2.0, 2.16 and 2.33Ghz options on the MacBook Pro lineup. Prices for all the core duo chips are set to be cut at the end of May anyways.

They don't support the software you want?!

[246o1]

You mean the people who make the software you want don't support OSX? (Or windows, now, since that is supported on new macs) (or *nix)

Perhaps if you were more specific I would be less inclined to reply sarcastically.

Wow

[Hocce]

Wow, this will be great! I've been waiting for this!

Word of the Day: Switcher

[Anonymous Coward]

switcher \'swi`ch &r\, n.
A person who thinks that they are a Mac user but are really just trying to be. The mistake they make is to try to become a Mac user, when real Mac users are all about not trying to be anything and following your own rules. There is no fashion code to being a Mac user. There are no rules as to what applications you have to run.

Recent converts like you are ruining the old school Mac community because you are posers. Apple releases one OS that popularizes Fitts' law and the Genie effect, and suddenly people assume being a Mac user is all about owning a Mac. But a real Mac user is born, not made. You "switchers" are misrepresenting yourselves and the Mac platform. You're giving people the wrong idea of what Macintosh is.

switcher: shops at hot topic, thinks Firefox is a good Mac app, waiting for OS X port of PayrollPro 2000, follows any hint of a fashion trend (instead of setting them!), wouldn't know Clarus from Carl Sagan.

real Mac user: someone true to who they are, the misfits, the rebels, the troublemakers, the round pegs in the square holes. The ones who see things differently. They're not fond of rules and they have no respect for the status quo. The ones who are crazy enough to think that they can change the world.

Re:Word of the Day: Switcher

[Anonymous Coward]

real Mac user: someone true to who they are, the misfits, the rebels, the troublemakers, the round pegs in the square holes. The ones who see things differently. They're not fond of rules and they have no respect for the status quo. The ones who are crazy enough to think that they can change the world.

Haha. Sorry, it's just funny that that's the same reason I like linux and BSDs...

Re:Word of the Day: Switcher

[Jeremi]

Hilarious. A victim of Apple's old marketing campaigns complaining about the victims of Apple's new marketing campaigns.

I'll let you in on a secret, AC: the "real Mac user" pose is also just that: a pose. If you really believed any of that "rebel misfit" crap you regurgitated from Apple's advertisements, you wouldn't be criticizing other people for doing things the way they want to.

Then again, I've probably just been trolled.

Re:Word of the Day: Switcher

[toddestan]

And then there are the normal people: "Oh that thing? That's just my computer."

Apple wants notebooks to be full-featured.

[Shag]

There's your answer. At least nowadays (the Powerbook Duos were a while ago), Apple seems to feel that the notebook should contain everything you're going to actually need on a frequent basis. So there aren't external drive bays, docking stations, port replicators or things like that - and yeah, they lean toward the larger screens.

The old 12" iBook was 2.2kg, the 12" PowerBook was 2.1kg. So far, the MacBook Pros have been a little thinner and lighter than the PowerBooks they replaced. If the new MacBook is actually thinner (as has been rumored) than the old iBook, maybe they can get it down to 2kg or less - that'd be nice.

(If the specs are at all decent, I need to buy a few, anyway.)

Incidentally, I have multiple colleagues who use 12" PowerBooks and just tuck them (in thin sleeves) into their little-tote-bag purses. Amusingly, they frequently breeze through metal detectors where everyone else's laptop gets taken out and turned on, because after all, nobody wants to search a purse. :)

Good luck

[StarKruzr]

Expect Intel toilet-graphics in all but the most powerful MacBook, if even that. Remember, this is their budget machine. The toilet-graphics will allow them to drop the price OR make more of a margin on the computer. Either way, they win.

This is super disappointing to me. I was really hoping Apple would come out with a small tablet with a discrete graphics controller. I love mine, but would get rid of it in a second if Apple came out with something just like it.

Re:Good luck

[mrchaotica]

I was really hoping Apple would come out with a small tablet with a discrete graphics controller. I love mine, but would get rid of it in a second if Apple came out with something just like it.

I've been looking for a tablet to take notes on in class, but haven't really found an ideal one (=12" screen, lightweight, not horribly expensive) -- the closest I've found is the Thinkpad X41. It sounds like your Toshiba almost fits the bill except for the price, so you might know more than I do.

If you had to get a Tablet PC today, which would you get?

Re:Good luck

[AstroDrabb]

How will Mac zealots claim "superior" hardware when Apple is throwing in the same stuff that you get in a commodity PC? The Inetl graphics are really crappy for anything more than a *budget* PC. And the prices I see over at Apple put them way out of that budget price range.

What exactly is going to be the reason for why a Mac costs more? OS X? If so, then there is only a small amount more Apple could charge, say maybe $100 more. Anything over that and you are paying for an Apple name. All of the parts in Apple's Intell based systems are made overseas like all the parts in a PC. So exactly where is the "Apple Advantage"?

I was hoping that Apple could really leap into the mainstream with the move to Intel. I thought Apple could lower prices by using commodity parts and maybe they would even see the light and offer their software for sale. I think Apple would make a killing selling all of their software for the PC. They could certainly make some in-roads in the home user market.

Re:Good luck

[StarKruzr]

What kind of price are we talking about? I got mine refurbished for $1100. :) It IS a two-year-old model.

Re:Good luck

[be-fan]

You think Apple would make a killing selling their software for PC, but then you say that all that software is maybe worth $100 more? Huh? Microsoft gets away with charging $150-$300 for Windows, and OS X is simply better.

Re:Good luck

[R3d M3rcury]

"How will Mac zealots claim 'superior' hardware when Apple is throwing in the same stuff that you get in a commodity PC?"

Well, one of the claims that Mac users always have used when comparing price against PCs is that Apple simply gives you more for your money. Like when comparing a Mac mini at $599 against a $399 PC--yeah, the PC is cheaper but you get wireless networking and bluetooth on the Mac mini which you don't get on the $399 PC. Of course, who cares about either of those things?

"What exactly is going to be the reason for why a Mac costs more? OS X? If so, then there is only a small amount more Apple could charge, say maybe $100 more."

Agreed. But you obviously haven't priced these things lately. Heck, the Dell Inspiron 710m is $949 (after $350 Rebate, so it's $1299 out-of-pocket)--$50 less than the low-end iBook. Personally, for the extra $50, I'd rather have Mac OS X, iMovie, etc.

Re:Good luck

[AstroDrabb]

Microsoft makes a killing on their software from the majority of all the corps in the world running it for most of their desktops. You can get MS Home for less than $150. I said $100 for Mac OS X because there is only so much the average person will go out and buy Mac OS X for. The average person gets MS Home with their PC so the don't see the costs. My $100 was mostly for Mac OS X. Not all the extras. The $100 consumer version would be a little more lean. It would cost more for the current software bundle with OS X.

I just want to see some price competition from Apple. I really think they can make a *huge* dent in the home market (which could lead to the big bucks corp market) if they just got more competitive on price. Most of my family members want a basic computer for no more than $500. For $500 you can get a very decent system from Dell. From Apple you cannot get anything. The closest you can get is spending an extra $100 and then you have just a computer with no keyboard, mouse or monitor. I would really like to know why Apple doesn't want to go after the home market. Apple has had to learn by now that the home market is not going to come to them unless they not only offer a better product, but make that product close in price to the competition. Take the iPod for example. People liked the features and style and the price was not much more then the other mainstream offerings. It became a no-brainer to spend an extra $50 to get an iPod.

Take a look at this Dell page. This is the mainstream US market. For $300 you can get a very usable system with monitor. Apple can't touch anything on this page price-wise. I would like to see Apple have 2 offerings below $600. One low end similar in spec to the $300 one from Dell and one around the $600 price point. The non-Intel mini was a joke. The processor was slow and the dog-slow hard drive made the system really bad to use. I know two people that work that now "hate" Apple because they got mini's and complained how slow they were.

Re:Good luck

[Anonymous Coward]

OS X is simply better if performance, software options, and breadth of frameworks are negatives rather than positives.

Re:Good luck

[be-fan]

OS X is a desktop OS. It's server performance is mostly irrelevent. Software options are also irrelevent to the quality of the OS itself, though it should be pointed out that while the OS X software library is smaller, it's also far higher quality. Lastly, Windows may very well have more programming frameworks, but its main APIs are nowhere near as good as Cocoa.

Remember

[ex-geek]

just something small that easily fits in my purse.

Remember, it's not a purse, it's european.

Re:Remember

[legallyillegal]

and that's not your coat; it's joe mayo's

Linux on Macs

[falconwolf]

Fortunately, Linux runs on them, so you can have the best of both worlds: Apple hardware and Linux software.

In a couple of weeks I plan on getting one of the new 17" Macbook Pros and was thinking about setting it up for dualboot. As it has BSD under the hood though I don't really think it's needed. Installing Linux on a new Mac is more a desire than a need the way I see it.

Falcon

Re:Linux on Macs

[Zaphod2016]

I had been fed up with XP for ages, and started playing with a few distros before going to the MBP. Originally, I was going to setup a dual boot too.

Problem is- OSX is so damn great, I can't find any reason to bother now!

Bravo Mr. Jobs: that worked like a charm, didn't it?

Re:Linux on Macs

[penguin-collective]

The kernel isn't the problem (technically, it's Mach, not BSD, but close enough).

The problem is software installation: Fink and DarwinPorts are slow, require lots of disk space, only cover a fraction of the packages from any standard Linux distribution, and often don't work at all.

When you get software installed, any kind of Linux GUI software tends to work poorly: Apple's X11 server is slow, and integration between X11 and OS X is poor (not even keymaps work properly). Even when people try hard (like the OpenOffice port), integration doesn't work well.

OS X is not a drop-in replacement for a UNIX workstation or a Linux desktop. It's something that will run many UNIX and Linux apps in a pinch, but you'll be happier with OS X apps on OS X, because that's what's supported best.

Now, if you think you don't need all that Linux software, that's fine. However, take it from me: trying to replace all the software you might want to use that comes on SuSE, RedHat, or Ubuntu with OS X equivalents is expensive.

If you're buying an OS X laptop expecting to get a "better" UNIX system, as Apple likes to claim, you'll be disappointed--it just doesn't fulfill that promise. Well, you'll be disappointed unless you didn't want a UNIX system in the first place and just like the sound of it.

Re:Linux on Macs

[falconwolf]

Now, if you think you don't need all that Linux software, that's fine.

The only software other than browsers and other internet software I know I'll specifically use is Open Office. Perl more than likely, and other programming tools, say maybe Eclipse. I may use Macromedia Studio but I'm not sure right now. I'd also like to find a program for Macs like XML Spy for Windows.

If you're buying an OS X laptop expecting to get a "better" UNIX system, as Apple likes to claim, you'll be disappointed--it just doesn't fulfill that promise. Well, you'll be disappointed unless you didn't want a UNIX system in the first place and just like the sound of it.

I'm going with Macs instead of PCs simply because I prefer Macs. It was about 20 years ago when I first used one and have loved them since. I would of been using Macs the last several years but couldn't "justify" the price premium over PCs, financially. But now somehow I will. The initial cost of PCs are lower but over the Mac's life, Macs are cheaper.

Falcon

Re:Linux on Macs

[penguin-collective]

The only software other than browsers and other internet software I know I'll specifically use is Open Office. Perl more than likely, and other programming tools, say maybe Eclipse. I may use Macromedia Studio but I'm not sure right now. I'd also like to find a program for Macs like XML Spy for Windows.

Then the Mac is fine for you. OpenOffice 2.0 is not all that great with X11 (no X11 apps really are), but the NeoOffice port of 2.0 is progressing.

I'm going with Macs instead of PCs simply because I prefer Macs.

Oh, there's no question: Macs are much nicer than PCs.

What I object to is claims that they are a better replacement for a UNIX or Linux machine--they are not. Both Macs and Linux machines each have their advantages and disadvantages in practice, and which to run is really a case-by-case decision.

Re:Linux on Macs

[falconwolf]

What I object to is claims that they are a better replacement for a UNIX or Linux machine--they are not. Both Macs and Linux machines each have their advantages and disadvantages in practice, and which to run is really a case-by-case decision.

Agreed! Including Windows, shudder. Use the appropriate tools, and that's all computers are. If one computer system/OS has what you need but another doesn't then use it.

Falcon

Re:magnetic latching system threat to your floppie

[jb.hl.com]

Laminated, obviously.

Mac is the brand name

[chocolatetrumpet]

MacBook has the word "MAC" in it. That's Apple's very expensive brand name, and they would do very well to promote it. They learned this from the auto industry.

"What kind of car do you drive?"

No one says "oh, I drive an SC 430." They just say, "I drive a Lexus.

Focus the brand!

Yes, really.

[phillymjs]

The G4-based incarnation of the Mac mini was basically an iBook without the LCD or keyboard-- it had identical specs. It stands to reason that Apple will continue that similarity once both machines are Intel-based. Which means that the iBook x86/MacBook/whatever they call it will have GigE and be offered with both Core Solo and Core Duo CPUs, just like the Intel mini.

As for missing features, some of them are strictly to differentiate the product lines. But you can bet your bottom dollar that gigabit ethernet will be in the MacBook. For one thing, the Mac mini which will share the MacBook's specs has it. For another, if Apple wants to get into the downloadable movies business, GigE across their entire computer line is a no-brainer-- and the G4 iBook is currently the only machine in their lineup right now that lacks it. It doesn't matter that current consumer-level broadband routers only do 10/100, it's just important that the Mac not be the bottleneck when Joe Sixpack wants to download a movie. Broadband internet will get faster and cheaper, eventually, and consumer-level 'infrastructure' items will start supporting gigabit. When that happens, Apple's products will be ready and waiting to take advantage of it.

~Philly

Integrated Sensing Display?

[itomato]

Everybody thinks the new screen will be a camera of some sort, but input is where it's really at.

It's a danged digital canvas.

It's a tablet and more, but it's too new to make it into a product, unless that's part of Steve's new anti-leak plan.

I work at Apple and can confirm..

[eebra82]

I work at Apple and can confirm that there will be Intel processors in this line-up of notebooks. Hope this valuable information helps.

Re:I work at Apple and can confirm..

[ThousandStars]

As Seen On TV? You're back. Lovely. I look forward to your future pronouncements.

More like RE-release.

[solios]

Apple released a sub-notebook in 1992 - the Duo 230. I've often wished for a modern equivalent - I haven't used the optical drive on my iBook since I installed the OS and apps, and I doubt it would be much of a technological stretch to push everything but a USB port and a headphone jack into a Firewire port-extender. The iBook is nice, but it's still too big for convenient day-to-day backpack transport. I'd love to have OS X on something smaller.

coding glitch or viral marketing?

[superburger]

"coding glitch" Maybe. Maybe not. Perhaps it's subtle viral marketing- let the nerds think they've spotted an error in the apple shrine / website and create excitement over the product.

Perhaps Jobs is sitting in his execs chair reading /. stroking his white cat and laughing manically as his latest plan comes together.

Re:coding glitch or viral marketing?

[qzulla]

Thank you for this. I have a vision... the Icat in GIMP.

qz

Transition from PowerPC to Intel (yes, AGAIN)...

[alchemist68]

As an Apple stockholder, I do not support the switch from IBM and FreeScale (formerly Motorola) PowerPC to Intel chips. Apple is effectively outsourcing the design of its hardware, of which much innovation and creativity were well received in the marketplace. Aside from the Rosetta chip, what *REALLY* distinguishes a Macintosh now from a PC aside from the shiny metal and plastic? I am not trolling, I know that Apple couples hardware from 3rd parties together very well, I just don't see how the switch to Intel chips is going to increase marketshare, damn, a Macintosh is a Macintosh only goes so far, the underlying hardware does have something to do with the *Macintosh* experience.

Aside from Intel speed bumps, the Macbook and Macbook Pro will have very little distinction. Hopefully, Apple will provide the chip in a socket and have a block of jumpers to upgrade chips and adjust CPU and logic board frequencies. At least I upgraded from a Motorola 400 MHz G3 to an IBM 500 MHz G3 in my Blue & White 'Yosemite' Macintosh with relative ease. With Intel-type designs, upgrading Macintoshes shouldn't be difficult.

Apple is treading in dangerous waters by switching to Intel and risking becoming irrelevant by embracing commodity PC hardware. Steve & Co. better have really, and I mean *REALLY* superior software to compete against The Borg, and I think that Switching to Intel pretty much burned the bridges with IBM and PowerPC unless Big Blue can produce cooler temperature chips that burn-up the Intel chips.

Watch how well the Origami sells...

[Anonymous Coward]

...and you will understand why Apple won't enter this market. Origami is going to Oribombi.

Re:Transition from PowerPC to Intel (yes, AGAIN)..

[simscitizen]

Rosetta chip? The only that differentiated Apple in the past was OS X anyway.

Re:magnetic latching system threat to your floppie

[d4nowar]

So that means its safe sex. Right?

Re:Transition from PowerPC to Intel (yes, AGAIN)..

[NutscrapeSucks]

Apple is effectively outsourcing the design of its hardware, of which much innovation and creativity were well received in the marketplace.

Well recieved in the marketplace 10-15 years ago maybe. Apple's recent system design has pretty much been uncompetitive and basically full of low-end PC components anyway. They last time they built a truely "best-in-class" system was in the PMac 8600 era.

That's what I hate about Apple.

[Anonymous Coward]

"Pro" does not mean "bigger screen." I want a 12" or 13" laptop (actually, I'd take a 10" or 11" laptop if it was superhighrez), but I also want non-integrated graphics, backlit keyboard, gigabit ethernet, lots of video out options, and so on.

The most important feature in a laptop is portability. I don't want a fucking iBook. I want the smallest fully-featured PowerBook imaginable, and, ideally, I want it to have 1600x1200 even on a 12" screen (OK, perhaps that's hyperbole. But 1280x1024 at minimum. Fuck 1024x768.)

Why can't Apple just make it happen? I don't want to lug around a 15" machine just to get all the real features.

Re:That's what I hate about Apple.

[Anonymous Coward]

It's all technical. The power features you want take physical volume, so more features means a necessarily bigger package. For example, Firewire 800 was cut from the 15" MBP not because of some big grand divestment from FireWire (as everyone on Slashdot said), but simply because there wasn't enough room in the case for the dedicated chipset needed to support it.

Re:That's what I hate about Apple.

[minuszero]

Unfortunately, they probably can't do it.
There was no good reason why the powerbook 12" had fewer features than the others, except that perhaps they just couldn't fit them all in to that small a space. :(

Eventually, though...

Re:That's what I hate about Apple.

[Kremmy]

The most important feature in a laptop is portability. I don't want a fucking iBook. I want the smallest fully-featured PowerBook imaginable, and, ideally, I want it to have 1600x1200 even on a 12" screen (OK, perhaps that's hyperbole. But 1280x1024 at minimum. Fuck 1024x768.)

Fuck anything above 1024x768. You know what I want? I want software developers to stop designing their applications to take up the most screen real estate they possibly can. Back in my day I had a Mac IIci running at 640x480x8 and I never had any trace of a problem with an application wanting more - unless I was trying to run Word 6 with all the toolbars enabled, god. These days, most computers won't even let you set the resolution below 800x600x16, and even if you can the programs simply won't squeeze into the space anymore. It's fucking ridiculous, they're not displaying MORE data, they're displaying the SAME AMOUNT of data but making LARGER so it won't be so small in high resolutions. It's nothing more than a damned vicious circle of making everything bigger to accomodate other things that are doing the same thing.

My apologies for this rant.

Re:That's what I hate about Apple.

[GaryPatterson]

Clearly Apple hates profit, which is why they ignore the crucial anonymous coward market so sought after by other laptop manufacturers.

I had a look at the Dell site, and found that the smaller laptops don't have any options for graphics, but the larger ones do. Why can't Dell just make it happen?

Maybe there's no profit for them there.

Re:Transition from PowerPC to Intel (yes, AGAIN)..

[ceoyoyo]

Um, Apple always outsourced their CPUs. Motorola/Freescale made the G3s and 4s, and IBM made the G5s. Before that Motorola made the 680x0s. Apple was a member of the PowerPC alliance and got some input that way, but Motorola and IBM made the chips. The extent of Apple's pull was revealed when IBM didn't produce a notebook G5 or even keep up with Steve's processor speed promises, and Motorola stagnated on the G4.

You seem to think that the processor makes a Mac. It doesn't. Apple may well keep up with Intel speed bumps but that doesn't mean they have to make a big product announcement every time. Apple commonly tweaks their product lines with little or no fanfare and their real innovation has always been outside the processor.

Rosetta chip? What?

What's in a name?

[oscarmv]

You'll probably be able to buy a 'best' MacBook with pretty much the specs you'd like for the small MacBook Pro you're talking about. Of course the price will be the expected one for the specs (including Apple tax).

Stupid name, Steve, really stupid and insipid

[Cannelloni]

As it happens, I am an almost fanatical Mac professional myself.

I pledge allegiance to the Apple of Cupertino, and to the Macintosh for which it stands. One nation under Steve, indivisible, with user-friendliness and iPods for all.

Yeah, yada yada, yap yap, whateavah. But the names MacBook Pro and MacBook are soooo stupid! People will call both products lines MacBook, and will not understand the name change.

Re:Stupid name, Steve, really stupid and insipid

[Anonymous Coward]

"Yeah, yada yada, yap yap, whateavah. But the names MacBook Pro and MacBook are soooo stupid! People will call both products lines MacBook, and will not understand the name change."

Yeah, like how most people refer to their different iPods as just iPods.

Why split up the attention that the brand gets?

Re:Stupid name, Steve, really stupid and insipid

[Cannelloni]

Actually, you may be absolutely right. Maybe the name change from PowerBook to MacBook Pro had little to do with the new Intel processor. After all, the name PowerBook existed before the arrival of PPC chips. (All proper Mac historians know that the PB 100 had a 16 MHz Motorola 68000 processor.) Emotionally, though, I think the MacBook/MacBook Pro moniker lacks the punch and charisma of the PowerBook name.

Re:Stupid name, Steve, really stupid and insipid

[MoneyT]

Then you need to think about it from a marketing perspective. It's along the same lines as simplifying the product line that happened when steve jobs returned (though whether it's still simple is a topic for another discussion). What's the difference between an iBook and a Powerbook? The short and easy answer is the Powerbooks are just faster or better, or that the iBooks are lower end versions of the powerbooks. There isn't (from a consumer standpoint) a major difference between the two. Therefore Macbook / Macbook Pro makes perfect sense.

Re:Transition from PowerPC to Intel (yes, AGAIN)..

[Jacob Moogberg]

Actually, it's not a Rosetta chip. It's a Rosetta stone. For some reason, Apple decided to put a small engraved stone inside every Intel Mac. This stone is read by a very tiny scribe that lives inside the computer and translates instructions on the fly for the processor. The scribe gets bored after a couple of hours, hence the inclusion of the iSight camera on top of the screen of most of their new models to allow him to get a view of the outside world, like a periscope, and the lackluster performance of the Mac mini: the scribe can see nearly nothing, which makes him angry. He has to move to the IR receiver for the remote control to watch something else than a hard drive or his personal stone.

Not going to happen yet

[Espectr0]

Apple stores don't get merchandise before the public announcements. And some people over at macrumors.com suggest that this may 9th date is because of the red hot chili peppers album being released on iTunes that day.

HP Toughbooks?

[robertc5]

Dude, as much as I like HP stuff; they son't make Toughbooks. Panasonic does.

color of the cat

[Gary W. Longsine]

I'm guessing the cat is black. Otherwise you would see white cat hair on his black turtleneck sweaters at the keynotes.

Re:color of the cat

[Senzei]

Come on, this is Steve Jobs we're talking about here... He has matching cats for whatever he decides to wear.

the PB 12" is smaller than the Duo 230.

[YesIAmAScript]

Steve Jobs said it when he announced the PB G4 12", and a friend who happened to have both showed them to me.

It's true. It's smaller in every dimension.

So get yourself a PB 12" and you've got the Duo 230 beat.

Re:the PB 12" is smaller than the Duo 230.

[Anonymous Coward]

Duo 230

1.4" H x 10.9" W x 8.5" D

12 inch G4 Powerbook

10.9 x 8.6 x 1.2 inches

It's not true. It's not smaller in every dimension.

YesYouAreAnIdiot

Re:the PB 12" is smaller than the Duo 230.

[solios]

Yeah but it's got an optical drive. The thing I liked about the duo was it was completely barebones - no crap I don't need.

Oh, and the 230 had a trackball. ;p

"I just don't see how the switch to Intel chips...

[Anonymous Coward]

...is going to increase marketshare." May I ask what planet you've been on for the past few months??? You haven't heard about Boot Camp? Aren't you aware that the Intel switch removes the last excuse PC users had not to switch to a Mac-- they can now run Windows software on Macs! The good things the switch will do for your Apple stock price should more than compensate for your unhappiness!

Duh, Mac Pro

[hotsauce]

I'm not sure why you think because "the industry does seen (sic) to be standardizing on the 13.3 screen" that "we will see a consolodation (sic) of the iBook and Powerbook". There are 12" iBooks and PowerBooks now. There is no reason there can't be same-sized MacBooks and MacBook Pros.

I'm not sure why you think the entire PowerMac segment will cease to exist. It is pretty clear it will be the last to be replaced, because of the terrific performance of the dual core G5. If they replaced them now, they would have no performance increase to show for it. That's probably why they replaced the oldest machines first, to be able to boast of a 2x-4x performance increase with the Core Duo. Whoop-de-do, so the latest dual core Intel is twice as fast as a single core, last gen G4? Am I supposed to be impressed?

I'm not sure why you were modded +5. Goes with the quality of the stories on the main page today, I suppose.

Read the Terms of Service

[Estanislao Mart�nez]

Terms of Service

Look at these bits in particular:

II. Offers

1. Receiving credit for an offer can not be guaranteed. If you believe that you have completed an offer correctly, please open a support ticket with your name, account name, e-mail address, offer completed, and the date that you have completed the offer. We will try to give you credit for that offer, but we can not guarantee that you will receive any form of credit.

IV. Other Information

1. freesonyplaystation.com is allowed to place any account on hold for any reason.

2. freesonyplaystation.com is allowed to deny credit for any offer for any reason.

Yup, even if you complete the requirements of their offers, they're not required to actually send you the machine.

A quick thought

[ndpatel]

I've been using an Apple machine in one way or another since 1987, when my family got an Apple IIGS. I've never owned a PC. I've had an LC, an LC II, a Centris 660av (the machine of the true believer), a PowerMac 7500 (that lasted through so many upgrades by the end it had no original parts left except the case and power supply), a white iBook, PowerBooks 180c, 520c, Wallstreet II G3 and Al G4, and a Sawtooth G4 (I got lucky and got one of the original 450MHz ones, before the speeds were reduced.)

Right now I have the PB G4 and a Core Duo Mini. I sold the G4 tower (it was also pumped full of upgrades) and just about made enough to cover the cost of the mini--try doing that with a 6 year old PC.

Here's my point--the Core Duo Mini is the coolest piece of Apple kit I've used since OS X 10.2 came out and I switched over permanently. The 1.66 Duo is enough faster than the 1.25 G4 in my PowerBook that I have started to complain about the PowerBook. The OS feels tighter, somehow. I've never had a single problem with Rosetta, apart from a few PrefPanes and plug-ins not loading, which was expected. Mundane things, like browsing in Safari, are hilariously faster. Harder things, like transcoding video, are noticeably quicker. Parallels is nice to have around, even if I never use it.

If the new Macbooks are this good, they're going to be the biggest hit Apple's ever had, particularly at the college level. I don't know any non-geek students who still buy desktops, and the speed and polish of the MacBook coupled with the whole BootCamp/Parallels thing is going to wow a lot of people. I was initially hesitant about the Intel thing, but it really has breathed a whole new life into Apple's product line.

Re:A quick thought

[kabz]

But according to several posts above, $799 for the Core Duo Mini is rip-off.

I don't think so. I have one also, and it just kicks ass. It's very very fast. Very expandable. Lacie 250 GB Firewire drive under it. Hooked up to a scanner / printer. SCSI adapter for for slide scanner. Hooked up to a tube amp and Athena speakers for soundz. 2 Gigs of RAM. GigE for great connectivity. Pimpin'.

other info to consider...

[YesIAmAScript]

You: going by some numbers Apple put out.

Me: held them both in my hands at the same time.

Take a look at the Apple specs for the size of an iPod Mini and then measure it yourself. I'm not sure where Apple gets their numbers from, then often have nothing to do with reality.

I will modify my statement in one way: The PB 12" is at least as small in every dimension. In at least one dimension (I forget which), it was so near to the same size that I couldn't tell the difference.

Re:other info to consider...

[Anonymous Coward]

Thank you for amending your statement. Allow me to amend mine.

YesYouAreStillAnIdiot

Apple and Intel hardware is crippled with DRM

[UseFree.org]

I won't be buying Apple products (especially those based on Intel hardware) because they includes draconian Digital Restrictions Management (DRM). Apple and Intel have sold out their users to the entertainment cartel made up by the RIAA, MPAA and other leaches.

Why would anyone buy DRM-crippled hardware from Apple when there are so many Linux and Free Software friendly manufacturers that sell desktops and laptops pre-loaded with the GNU/Linux operating system and the KDE desktop environment?

Re:Apple and Intel hardware is crippled with DRM

[tkdog]

Because they want to buy it? Behold the free market.

Re:Apple and Intel hardware is crippled with DRM

[jrockway]

Agreed. I just got a core duo Dell laptop that's almost exactly the same as the macbook (the macbook has better graphics, but xterm and emacs don't need a good graphics card). The difference is, instead of paying $2000+ for a laptop, it was $1000. For an extra $700, I got a 24" LCD and a port replicator... in the end, I paid a lot less. (The Dell has some additional niceities like a built-in smart card reader, Intel a/b/g wireless, etc.)

Apple is really going downhill. The Macbook isn't really much better than the generics that are $1000 less. OS X gets worse with each release. Safari is the most unstable web browser I've ever used. iTunes is a resource hog. Mail.app is false advertising :) iEverythingElse is slow or needs you to pay Apple $99/yr for their web hosting account.

All in all, for every reason that Apple gives people to buy a Mac, for me it's a reason to throw my Mac away. I want an OS that lets me do what I want, not what the Content Creators want (PT_DENY_ATTACH. Fuck you, Apple.)

(Not to mention getting a decent emacs under OS X. With debian, I "apt-get install emacs21" and have emacs21 that integrates fully with my environment. multi-lingual input Just Works, the X11 fonts work, emacs looks like every other X11 application, etc. With OS X, I had to compile the CVS version just to get something usable, but it's still missing a lot of features. MULE isn't in there, but OS X's built-in input methods kind-of-sort-of work. Except that you can't use some obscure asian characters that aren't in UTF-8 -- emacs will load them and display them, but OS X refuses to let you copy or paste them into emacs.)

All in all, OS X doesn't fit with my computing mentality. My model of a computer is a device that executes instructions on my behalf. Linux does whatever I tell it to, and if it doesn't work out how I want it to, I can fix the source. With OS X, some Supreme Diety (Jobs) Has Decided How I Shall Use The Holy Computing Device. Not my style. Some people like that, but I don't. I like to hash things out on a mailing list, then code it. Having one guy decide how everything works is silly.

Not to mention that Apple pushes out super unstable OS X Server updates that hose my organization on a regular basis. I still haven't recovered from 10.4.6.

Re:Apple and Intel hardware is crippled with DRM

[heinousjay]

I guess you just pointed out why there's choice in the market. There's the tiny minority who think like you and love to go out of their way to get anything done, spending tons of precious time to squeeze that extra 1% out, then there's the slightly bigger but still tiny minority who like having the computer work with them, instead of needing to tell it every little step, and who can handle it when not everything goes exactly as they want it, and then there's the vast majority, who don't care about computing at all and just want eBay and porn.

Re:Apple and Intel hardware is crippled with DRM

[Dagny Taggert]

I'm willing to bet a large, large amount of money that you've never even used OSX. If you had, you'd know that it has gotten BETTER with every release. Just more FUD from the OSS fanboys.

Re:Apple and Intel hardware is crippled with DRM

[jrockway]

I started using OS X at 10.3 when I got the 15" Powerbook I'm using to type this post. 10.3 was a fine OS. Then 10.4 came out. I hear it made some machines faster; fine. Spotlight isn't that exciting to me, I know where my files are. Automator was broken in 10.4.0 for what I wanted to do (download slashdot to my iPod). Everything else was very incremental, a few minor features here-and-there. (Minimally-useful, ripped from Mozilla) RSS support in Safari. Cool. Great.

Then 10.4.5 came out, which hosed my machine. Whenever I opened Thunderbird (I ditched Mail.app a while before, since it was losing mail and was generally not Apple's best effort), the machine kernel paniced. Not good. Whenever I opened dashboard, the machine kernel paniced. Eventually the problem went away when I stopped using my Bluetooth mouse.

10.4.6 fixed my desktop problems, but it totally hosed my OS X server. Apache refused to start because something else was listening on port 80. Netstat didn't see anything, and killing every superflous process didn't resolve the problem either. Upon rebooting, sshd wouldn't start either. Nice. I couldn't re-install the OS either, since the OS X server installer doesn't support the system controller in that machine. Calling Apple's tech support yieleded the fact that, even though they sold me the machine with OS X server installed, OS X server was not supported on this configuration. (Brand new dual-core 2.0GHz G5 tower.)

The machine is currently sitting on top of our rack, completely useless until Apple decides to release a fix. If they do, that is -- they already have my money, why should they care?

All in all, I don't see how OS X is a good deal for me. To me, money is better spent on things that aren't proprietary money-making schemes. I understand that paying for things gives you time to do things that are more important... but in this case that didn't happen. OS X has wasted my time -- at least when Linux breaks I learn something fixing it.

Now that Macs are generic Intel machines in a nicer case, I don't see the benefit of paying twice as much, only to be locked into a proprietary platform. (I like how Windows is bad because they lock you into their platform, but somehow Apple's lock-in is something I should pay extra for. Please explain that to me :)

Anyway, you can buy Macs if you like, that's good for you. I just don't see the advantage. All operating systems suck, but Linux sucks less. (OpenBSD is my server OS of choice, though, because I agree with Theo's idealism.)

Anyway, I'm not trolling, I'm just mad that Apple isn't as cool as they used to be :)

Re:Apple and Intel hardware is crippled with DRM

[Keen Anthony]

The difference is, instead of paying $2000+ for a laptop, it was $1000.

At the risk of sounding like a fanboy, I would argue that the Macintosh is the most innovative, most consistently well crafted, and the best designed computer I have used since Amiga. In the last three years alone, I have watched two $2000+ HP notebooks (two different product lines) suffer catastrophic electrical failures because of poorly designed and poorly implemented power adapter ports. I have seen numerous PC laptops have fans or processors die.

Apple is really going downhill. The Macbook isn't really much better than the generics that are $1000 less.

How is Apple going downhill? Why do people compare the MacBook to a generic PC anyway? The MacBook, despite being an x86, is for Mac users. We get the added advantage of running Windows, and that will benefit PC gamers and switchers; but really, you shouldn't even be looking at a MacBook if you're just in the market for a new Windows machine.

Safari is the most unstable web browser I've ever used.

Moreso than Camino or Netscape on Windows? Safari is based on WebKit, an open source core that is based on KHTML, another open source project. What is so unstable about Safari? Are you using one of the nightly WebKit builds or one of the official releases? I use the nightly builds, and those often crash on me.

Re:Apple and Intel hardware is crippled with DRM

[Anonymous Coward]

I have to say that my experience matches the GP. I've been using OS X since Jaguar. It's gotten faster with each major release, but also less reliable. Frequently, when bugs have been "fixed", it's been by removing the features they appeared in in minor updates (it used to be possible to browse the network's SMB/etc file shares from the file system, including from the shell for example, no mounting required. This was present in early versions of Panther, and then suddenly disappeared.)

I'm going to post this AC. I've been losing a lot of karma of late because whenever I criticise Mac OS X as anything but the most secure, bug-free, operating system in existance (it's no better or worse than anything else in either of those respects, and it's demonstrably fallable), the -1 Overrated abusive-mods come out in force. Truth is, Mac OS X is a nice environment. That's it. It's not bug free. It has some security issues that remain unexploited due to market share issues (no point in trying to create a virus that wouldn't spread very far because few of the machines contacted would be Macs.) I like using OS X, but I'm willing to switch away from it too.

Re:Apple and Intel hardware is crippled with DRM

[Anonymous Coward]

You summed up alot of why I bought a PPC Mac even after the Intels were out. I just couldn't justify paying Apple 3 times as much as what building a better x86 on my own would cost me. Dropping the PPC entirely was a mistake IMO, because it made those price comparisons that hurt Apple before so much more potent. Although I have liked 10.4 so far, admittedly I haven't done very much with it...

They don't offer what I want

[Myria]

I said with the advent of the x86 Macs that I would switch with my next computer. I saw no reason to stick with PCs besides price, and paying $200 or whatever for the ability to run OS X alongside Windows without dealing with cracks was reasonable to me.

However, Apple and Intel have let me down. I'm in the market for a new laptop. Apple claims that their laptops can run Windows, but that's not true. Apple has still not made a 2 button mouse, and good luck running Windows without right clicking. They have a 1.5 button mouse for desktops, but their laptops only have 1 mouse button. You can't replace the built-in mouse, either, unless you always use your laptop where you have a place for an external mouse.

Intel has let me down as well. I want 64 bit support in my next machine. The Core series does not support 64 bits, and it sucks. I have no idea how long I'd have to wait to get a Merom or whatever it's called.

Whenever Apple and Intel resolve these problems, I won't need to get PCs anymore.

Melissa

Re:They don't offer what I want

[theolein]

I just wonder how people like you manage to survive in this beastly horrid world, where some computers only have one button (but work well and have built in support for almost all two button scroll mice like the logitech cordless I'm using right now on my Mac).

As for 64 bit, well I'm sure you need it to play your games so why don't just go ahead and buy that amd anyway, since you're obviously such a power user that you inform yourself about product details before spouting shit off on the internet.

Re:They don't offer what I want

[gwhenning]

It's called control clicking on a Mac and it's almost as fast as using a two button mouse. OR you could get a BT mouse and use an external. Most people I know don't seem to like the trackpads anyway and wind up using an external mouse.

Re:They don't offer what I want

[Anonymous Coward]

I've had and used a Powerbook for 2 years. When I use friends' Windows laptops, I find that I have lots of trouble clicking the buttons under their trackpads -- I seem to left click 50% of the time and right click the other 50%.

See, I've gotten so used to the one-click interface that I just "press-under-the-trackpad" instead of "left-click-or-right-click-depending-on-the-contex t". When I need a contextual menu I control click. I even control click when I use my wireless mouse, which definitely has two buttons. =|

As for Merom, it looks way better than the current offerings, so like you, I will wait. Maybe they'll have a native MacOS Photoshop by then, or OS 10.5...

Re:They don't offer what I want

[toddestan]

It's called control clicking on a Mac and it's almost as fast as using a two button mouse.

Which is purely a software feature in OSX, and nothing more. Control clicking in Windows XP is NOT the same as right clicking.

Re:They don't offer what I want

[Kildjean]

Right Clicking Problem, just left click + ctrl and voila, you get right clicking on a mac laptop. now go my child go get a macbookpro... :)

Re:They don't offer what I want

[SenorCitizen]

Right Clicking Problem, just left click + ctrl and voila, you get right clicking on a mac laptop. now go my child go get a macbookpro... :)

Yes, except if you want to use BootCamp and Windows XP. Control-clicking is a MacOS feature, not something done in hardware.... just try that in WinXP and you'll see why he's complaining.

Re:They don't offer what I want

[great om]

try this: http://www.olofsson.info/

Re:They don't offer what I want

[SenorCitizen]

Cool, good to know there is a solution, even a third-party one.

Re:They don't offer what I want

[strikeleader]

All praise the great and powerful Jobs. If he builds it we will buy it.

Ok, where's my Kool-Aid?

Re:They don't offer what I want

[kalidasa]

There are third party utilities that will provide right-click capabilities, like SideTrack. Also, there's always ctrl-click.

Maybe Bill Gates influenced the specs..

[Anonymous Coward]

"Family." Steve's word sizzles with a nanosecond-long flash of irony. In that instant, he tips his hand.

I raise the stakes. "Family's important, don't you think?"

He bluffs. "Yeah. Sure." His smile never reaches his eyes.

I call. "That sense of belonging... being cared about... we all need it."

He leans back, steepling his fingers together, and quirks his eyebrow at me. "Maybe."

I slide closer to him on the white leather couch, resting my arm along the back casually. "Everybody needs it. Even you."

He sweeps his hand in a broad circle, indicating the rest of the building. "I have it."

"They worship you. They fear you. They want to be you. But do they give you what you need?"

Steve folds his arms behind his head and regards me calmly. "Tell me, Bill. What do you think I need?" He thinks he's got my number.

I reach out and brush my knuckles across his cheek. My hand settles on his neck, my thumb gently stroking his jaw. "How long has it been?" I ask, one decibel above a whisper.

He's fighting with this sudden bout of nervousness, I can tell. "Since what?"

"Since anybody loved you?"

He just shakes his head, mouth twisting into a disbelieving grin. "You're crazy."

"It's what got me where I am today." I move closer still, until our knees brush. "Trust me," I whisper, leaning in and kissing him.

Selling a non-existant OS to the biggest information systems company in the world was just a warm-up for this. But Steve Jobs needs what I'm offering. I could hear it in his voice when he screamed at me, and I can taste it on him now. Betrayal is his bete noir. All he's ever wanted is security, and it's the one thing he'll never have because he's so damn paranoid. Tragic, isn't it?

And maybe he does trust me, at least, enough to open his mouth and stick his tongue into mine. The next thing I know I'm lying back on the couch, and his hands are in my hair and pulling my glasses off and holding me still while he tries his best to suck my tonsils out. I've got him right where I want him.

I shift underneath him, wrapping my leg around his and running my hands up his back. He groans and moves against me. I can feel him hardening even as he pulls his mouth away with one last sucking bite on my lower lip. Even without my glasses I can see he's staring at me again with those searching eyes. "What kind of game are you playing?"

I grin. "Just trying to get you to relax." I run my fingers down his spine. "Not that you need it, or anything.

"I didn't know you cared."

"Of course I care." My other hand moves up to his hair, strokes lightly. "I want you to trust me," I whisper, reaching up to brush my lips against his. "Do you trust me?"

Oh, yeah. I've still got it. That certain je ne sais quoi or whatever. He wants to trust me. He needs me to give him what he's been missing all his life. And he knows I can, because I understand. We're visionaries, he and I. And it's lonely at the top.

His mouth is on mine again, pushing me back down against the couch like he wants to eat me alive. He's arching over me, leaning on one arm while his other hand finds its way to my belt buckle. He breaks away from the kiss and nips at my neck, hard enough to bruise. I'm going to have an interesting time explaining this to Paul tomorrow. At least Ann's in Denver until next week. There are advantages to having a girlfriend who takes frequent extended business trips.

Steve's tongue traces a hot wet line up to my ear. "How far are you going to take this?" he demands in a soft murmur.

"As far as I have to." My hands slide down to help him with my belt. His touch is making me hard. Or maybe it's just adrenaline. He's kissing me again and I'm kissing back almost as hungrily as he undoes my zi

Rumors and updates

[zsau]

And people complain when Slashdot posts point updates of Linux, yet here it's something that doesn't even exist!

What exactly do you need 64-bits for???

[ErnstKompressor]

Are you modeling the universe? Mapping the human genome? Folding proteins (and I'm not talking about 'folding@home').

I hate to break it to you, but 64-bit isn't 'faster' than 32-bit...

Maybe it will be called the MacBook Wee

[michaeldot]

IBM would call it the MacBook Jnr.
Microsoft would call it the MacBook 360.
Sony would call it the MB3 (and ship it at approximately the same time as the heat of the universe).
Nintendo would call it the MacBook Wee (but they'd spell it funny).

Smaller...

[Cyno01]

I have a 20" Cinema display with my PC (along with a 15" secondary monitor and a 19" tv for tertiary), and i love it, but some people who use my computer say its just too big (not me though). Plus even now (i bought it when it came out), its still too expensive. My friend just bought a 24" dell display for less than the Apple costs, and its got multiple inputs, hubs, a card reader and is adjustable. Not to say that the apple doesnt have classy simplicity, but its still too damn expensive. Apple would do good releasing a companion display for mac-mini, a 17" widescreen priced at about $300. We know they have them, since the old iMacs, and the powerbooks and now macbooks have them. This would put together a complete mac system for $1000, which is the perfect price point for most people for such a quality machine. Although as someone else mentioned that if the margins on iMacs are much better, then theyre not going to do this and continue to use mac-minis to upsell iMacs.

Mighty Mouse?

[Cyno01]

Parent and none of the sibling posters seem aware of it. Did i dream it? Oh, guess i didnt. And in fact, its a 5 button mouse.

Plastic case, backlit keys, 2xFW

[ElitistWhiner]

Intel dual core? They'll sell tons...

It'll be the new "Standard" by which all laptops are measured.

Bye, bye 12"PowerBooks!

Will it not not fry my legs like the macbook pro?

[Billly Gates]

After rumors of temperatures approaching 95C on the macbook pro I hope they use a Pentium M processor.

I would pay more for it as it would have a longer life than the duo heat sink.

All right! Pizzaria Duo

[Anonymous Coward]

No, wait...

Wha-ow

[Espressoman]

Yay! It's YetAnotherAppleProductLaunch time. Why aren't we bored yet? Moore's Law should have been something like "Every eighteen months twice as many product launches will occur". You might be interested now, but will you still be interested when there are a thousand product launches a day? Sooner or later people will turn their attention to the more interesting genuine innovations which occur more and more regularly (but which will inevitably be surpassed by something else). Leave the who-makes-what in the past and concentrate on the inventors who make it all possible. It's scary to think how so few young people are aware of what is happening in front of them. The trend towards ever-faster technological innovation has sufficient credence now to at least acknowlege that humanity as a whole is going to drastically change during in even short lifetimes. Why are so few young people aware of how much things will change during their life? I think the problem is always that the previous generation instills their own expectations onto the next. Most parents can't quite get to grips with just how different their children's life will be. Or not, as it is conceivable that some people well into parenting age may have no idea what their life expectancy is likely to be. It will be interesting to witness the loss of appeal of consumer product launches as their frequency surpasses our ability to keep track of it, and to see where people's attention will then turn. I hope our society is mature enough to adapt and come out healthier as a result. But already we see increasing numbers of people turn to old reassurances: war, religious fundamentalism, commercial and territorial expansionism. And little wonder we have so many people medicating themselves 24 hours a day just to cope with the demands of modern life. I have to go now. I've heard AMD is about to announce a new chip...

They do have a two button mouse

[peter Payne]

Have you missed the fact that Apple made a (really excellent) mouse that has two buttons and also an innovative "scroll pea" that is far better than anything I've used in the past? Yes, the Macbooks will probably keep one button and control click to right click, but that's something I support -- those two buttons on PCs are dawg ugly. Much better to just use an external mouse if it's that much an issue to you.

Control Click is awkward and nasty.

[argent]

I put up with control-click under System 7, under OS 8, under OS 9, and it's ALWAYS been one of the things that pissed me off the most about Apple... their declaration that one mouse button was enough for anyone, alongside this ongoing addition of extra mouse buttons on the keyboard. It's purely hypocritical... if remembering whether to use the right or left button is Too Hard, then remembering whether to use control, shift, command, or option is no improvement.

Core Solo-based (Yonah) Celeron M is now shipping

[MojoStan]

Last time there was a move from G4-based devices to Core Something devices (Solo or Duo) was the Mac Mini. And the price went up quite a lot for that.

When the Intel Mac minis were introduced on February 28, the 1.5GHz Core Solo and 1.66GHz Core Duo were still relatively new "mainstream" notebook processors (Core Duo/Solo were launched January 5). The G4 processors that they replaced were based on an ancient CPU architecture (introduced September 1999), so the Mac minis got a ton of current CPU technology for that $100 (65nm, 2MB Smart Cache, 667MHz bus, micro-op fusion, great branch prediction, etc).

I'm often wrong on my Mac predictions, but I think Apple might offer a low-priced MacBook based on the new Celeron M CPU based on the Core Solo (Yonah) core (model number 420, 423, and 430). These Celerons differ from Core Solo by having less L2 cache (1MB), slower bus (533MHz), and no Enhanced SpeedStep. I think the lack of SpeedStep is the only thing a MacBook buyer might miss because it significantly improves battery life. However, many other parts of this CPU architecture and chipset were designed with power-saving in mind. If battery life can be made "good enough," these new Celerons should offer great performance for a low price.

I think it would make a lot of sense for Apple to offer a new $500 (or less) Mac mini using this new Celeron M CPU. SpeedStep is not needed on the Mac mini, of course. They also use the same socket as Core Solo/Duo.

Re:magnetic latching system threat to your floppie

[Ohreally_factor]

It's called empathy, because he has a pair. The best you could offer would be sympathy.

Re:magnetic latching system threat to your floppie

[Smurf]

So that means its safe sex. Right?

Not really. Haven't you heard of paper cuts?

Dualboot

[falconwolf]

I had been fed up with XP for ages, and started playing with a few distros before going to the MBP. Originally, I was going to setup a dual boot too.

Though it's old and I haven't used in more than a year, the cpu and OS shows it, I have a dualboot DEC Alpha. It has WinNT 4.0 and Redhat. And I was going to setup the computer I'm using now as a dualboot machine, however there wasn't any drivers for the motherboard or other components. It's one of those computers with everything integrated on the motherboard. As for XP, MS's requirement that XP be "activated" is what drove me to decide to get a Mac as my next computer even with Macs costing more. I loved Macs to begin with but couldn't "justify" the cost, now I can.

Problem is- OSX is so damn great, I can't find any reason to bother now!

It'll take some tyme to become familiar with OSX, I used it a little bit but that was a few years ago. I did use Macs when Apple released them about 20 years ago but haven't used them much since. Back then I also used, and prefered, Amigas. Weird, but Amigas ran the Mac OS faster than Macs. They could also run DOS/Windows.

Falcon

Re:Will it not not fry my legs like the macbook pr

[Anonymous Coward]

MATCHbook Pro?

Thats what I saw when I scanned the headline;)

Why change iBook but not iMac?

[Gy1186]

I just dont get why they'd change one but not the other. Maybe to have mac in every name? everyone knows its a mac.

Re:Will it not not fry my legs like the macbook pr

[Magius_AR]

After rumors of temperatures approaching 95C on the macbook pro I hope they use a Pentium M processor.

The Macbook Pro already uses a Pentium M processor. It houses a Core Duo (Yonah) chip, which is based on the Pentium M microarchitecture.

Core Duo 2 (Merom) on the other hand is based on the next generation Core architecture (Conroe)...it will be significantly cooler (at least as far as performance per watt)

I want to have sex with a girl

[Pervertus]

Yes, I'm horny. What can I do?

There's that girl who wants to meet me (not sure about sex), but she's somewhere in Europe.
I guess I'll have to buy a flight ticket. Oh well. Got to renew my passport too...

I'm writing this to you from the future.

[PSXer]

It didn't happen.