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Windows Vista and the Future of Hardware

NSIM writes to mention an article on ExtremeTech looking at the impact that Windows Vista will have on the future of computer hardware. In addition to obvious elements like CPUs, GPUs, and display interfaces, the article also touches on things like DRM (which Vista heavily supports) and audio formats. From the article: "Currently, only a few shipping products actually support the crypto-ROM needed to ensure compliance with Blu-Ray, HD-DVD, and CableCard. It's looking like next-generation cards will all implement the needed firmware. Continued... The impact on future displays is a bit more subtle, but we're starting to see the impact already. Widescreen displays offering very high resolutions, such as the Dell 2407WFP are starting to become more affordable. But a 1920x1200 resolution often creates legibility problems for some users resulting from the tiny size of the default Windows font."

300 comments

  1. at what point by yagu · · Score: 5, Insightful

    At what point does the advancement of technology become either irrelevant, unnecessary to the casual user, too expensive, too complex, or some combination thereof? This has already happened in audio -- how many people out there really are vested in SACD? How many people do you know who even know what SACD is?

    How many people are using 7.1, or THX sound? Or, if they have it, have it set up correctly? Or, if they have it, have any reasonable collection of media to make use of it?

    And now there is evidence of death on the vine with new and improved video formats -- HD DVD vs. Blu-Ray. Other than mostly a slashdot type crowd, who really cares about the arguably incremental improvements for hefty investments?

    At what point do consumers shrug their collective shoulders at any news around HDTV (hint, they're already starting to)? And when do all of the complexities of the combinitorials to lace all of this technology together push new consumers away?

    It's possible Vista may be entering that twilight zone of indifferent consumerism. I'm totally technology driven, and have most of my life been a bleeding edge investor, but lately it's become less interesting. I can tell the difference between 1600x1200 resolution and WVGA, but I have to explain it to everyone else. They don't care, and they're not willing to spend any extra dollars to get the extra resolution kick.

    All I'm seeing around Vista is toned-down expectations from their original promise, and ramped up requirements for hardware. That hardly lights a fire for me, and is a frigging wet towel for the lay-people considering new computers.

    I don't know many in the technology world knocked out of their socks by the announced features (especially after all of the un-announced, and I don't know anyone outside of the technology elite circles who are interested, or care, and have any inklings of plans to move to Vista -- and if new rollouts of computers are significantly more expensive at all because of Vista, I know lots of people who are proactively not buying.

    Maybe the world is reaching a point where people really don't need mini-Crays to read e-mail, manage photos, and surf the internet. And maybe the fork in the computing world can finally focus on useful applications and customer service rather than eye-candy translucent windowing graphics.

    1. Re:at what point by ObsessiveMathsFreak · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Other than mostly a slashdot type crowd, who really cares about the arguably incremental improvements for hefty investments?


      Gamers.
      --
      May the Maths Be with you!
    2. Re:at what point by Tackhead · · Score: 5, Funny
      Other than mostly a slashdot type crowd, who really cares about the arguably incremental improvements for hefty investments?
      Gamers.

      ".But I repeat myself."
      - Mark Twain

    3. Re:at what point by MasT3quila · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I find that as I approach the end of the 18-35 year old male target group, I find myself caring less and less about the latest tech. All of a sudden I'm not rushing out to get an XBOX 360, I haven't pre-paid for a PS3, I keep waiting for the next i-pod only to say "meh. I can wait for the next one again", I won't be in line at midnight for Vista like I was for Windows 95. OMG I'M AGING! Come on advertisers, make me WANT STUFF!!

    4. Re:at what point by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I agree with much of what you say, but being able to use much better screens, such as the large Dell TFT mentioned in the submission, is definitely a plus as far as I'm concerned.

      This is partly because of the productivity benefits of getting more on-screen: try editing a book or magazine in a DTP program when you can actually see two real-size pages side-by-side at a useful resolution, and suddenly the idea of zooming in to part of one page on a 19" CRT to make out the details seems quaint and old-fashioned.

      Equally important, newer TFTs tend to be a lot easier on the eyes than the older TFTs and mid-range CRTs that fill offices around the world. As someone whose eyes are degrading because of unfortunate genetics anyway, I want to make sure I do as much as possible to help them, and since I sit in front of a computer screen for a large proportion of my waking hours...

      I think the problem alluded to in the submission, where large, hi-res screens become effectively unusable under Windows due to poor UI scaling, is a very real one. So, if a new version of Windows will support proper scaling for things like fonts, icons and UI widgets, and thus make bigger and better screens more usable, that is a clear benefit for me.

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    5. Re:at what point by eno2001 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      You're mostly correct until the industry cooks up a "must have" reason that makes a user *THINK* they need a new PC/OS/Gadget/what have you. The auto industry went through this with tail fins back in the 50s. Software is going through it with more and more eye-candy that requires a hefty investment, but doesn't actually produce much of value in the end. (Don't get me wrong, I'm usually the first on the block to get new eye candy as long as it's something that is worth it to me) But, think about the number of average people who go out and buy a new PC just because their old one (that's only a year and a half old) is "slow". They are convinced by sleazy salesholes that their PC is slow because it's "old". They don't realize that maybe they have a virus, or some kind of software problem. Run an anti-virus program on your system that monitors everything around the clock and you'll have a slow PC, for example. Or some new software comes out that the user MUST HAVE but it only runs on the latest OS which only runs on boxes no older than two years. There's the artificial drive to buy new crap even if they don't need it.

      As far as the complexity, well... sadly it really is a case of "your brain is too small for this century" when it comes to most users. There is no way to provide the flexible and advanced functionality that a user may want and not add complexity. Take for example the concept of de-interlacing. It's a complex issue with video. I use Xine on Linux and the TV Time filter to take care of my DirecTV signal and make it look as nice as possible on my LCD HD monitor. (Heh... it actually looks better than connecting the DirecTV box right to the monitor's composite in) But, in order to actually take advantage of this with a simple click of an icon for my wife to use, I had to write a script that calls 'xine' with the appropriate options, and tunes the GeForce driver for optimal color overlay. It's once click for her and hours of work at the outset for me. Joe User will NEVER do this. The only way to offer it to him is to have the application make automatic (and stupid) assumptions about how things should work and then give him the lowest common denominator result. If Windows Media Player took care of this, you know it would make lame assumptions about how the de-interlacing should work and he'd wind up with a crap signal unless he had all his ducks in a row hardware-wise. And then you're back to complexity that he shouldn't have to deal with...

      --
      -"...bad old ideas look confusingly fresh when they are packaged as technology" - Jaron Lanier (Digital Maoism on Edge.o
    6. Re:at what point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe the world is reaching a point where people really don't need mini-Crays to read e-mail, manage photos, and surf the internet.

      Oh, but they will! And Microsoft will make damn sure of it when they stop patching windows XP one day.

    7. Re:at what point by jandrese · · Score: 3, Interesting

      To me, HD-DVD and Blu-Ray are a lot like SVHS compared to regular VHS. They don't offer any particular new features that your average person is going to notice (they don't have the right equipment), but they are more difficult to set up (very few TVs had S-V jacks when SVHS was still big), far more expensive, and seemingly aimed at the high end videophlies. In the end S-V decks were just a niche market while plain old crappy VHS kept on chugging. It took a major technological overhaul to get people to switch (much like what it took to get people to switch from Cassette tapes to CDs).

      The industry certainly isn't helping the problem by coming up with new and inventive DRM obsticles that they'll force the consumer to hurdle. Nor will they win a lot of friends by burning early adopters.

      Ultimately if we get to the point where the DRM doesn't matter and the HD-DVD/Blu Ray decks are only slightly more expensive than regular DVD decks, and the cost for premanufactured discs is the same either way, then it will be adopted (but nowhere near as fast as DVDs were adopted), but if the costs are higher or there is some onerous DRM to contend with, then the technology is going to be stillborn like SVHS.

      --

      I read the internet for the articles.
    8. Re:at what point by Data+Link+Layer · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I was in line at midnight for windows 98. I have no idea why I was so excited for a new windows release, it's unimaginable.

    9. Re:at what point by DeeDob · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "It's possible Vista may be entering that twilight zone of indifferent consumerism"

      XP entered that "twilight zone".

      Almost no one bought XP when it came out (compared to the other OS microsoft sold). People gradually switched to XP when they replaced their old computers with newer ones that came pre-installed with XP.

      Even now, people don't upgrade their PC every two years like in the mid-90s. People now wait for 4 or 5 years, some even more.

    10. Re:at what point by Bert64 · · Score: 1, Insightful

      A heavy weight OS such as vista is not good for gaming, all the extra memory, cpu and gpu time consumed by the OS is no longer available for the game.

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    11. Re:at what point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "THX sound"

      THX (or THX-II) is just a nebulous certification.

    12. Re:at what point by Tweekster · · Score: 1

      It has already started to happen with computers, but will take a lot longer.

      Right now, people are buying new systems cause "they need a new one" because their old system is crufted up too badly and because of a desire for new and shiny. The shiny idea will always persist, but because most computers do way to much, they become infected with crap making them get slow very quickly.

      I stopped bothering to get a new computer because my older system works well for Ubuntu, and is still a decent system to use. I browse the web, I play music, I watch videos, I email/IM. That is it, that also sums up most of the population in their system needs. I treat it as an appliance, it does those things, it does them well and that is it.

      computers dont need more features, they need less, they need to do those tasks well and be done with it. Lock the user from being able to install all kinds of crap without a few steps. Take away options and the system starts to function much better.

      People like choice, they hate the results of having that choice.

      --
      The phrase "more better" is acceptable English. suck it grammar Nazis
    13. Re:at what point by SpryGuy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I loved the new Dell Wide-screen 24" display. It rocked.

      And then I discovered ClearType. Why ClearType isn't on in Windows XP by default (or even installed by default) I don't know. I had to go to a microsoft website to turn it on and download a control panel applet to let me tweak and configure it. But it made a great display even better... to much so that it was like getting glasses! I even use it on my CRT display at work, and it's better there too. It just seems odd to me that it's not the norm...

      --

      - Spryguy
      There are three kinds of people in this world: those that can count and those that can't
    14. Re:at what point by Tatsh · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I'm actually just into the 18-35 male target group, and the only things I'm caring about lately is HD size and portability in technology. However, I just haven't figured out why I just really don't want a PSP, or Nintendo DS. I just feel like it wouldn't be worth my money in the long run (besides Pictochat on DS). I've gone through 2 PS2's (and MAYBE will buy another), back when I had a PS2 I would only use it to play like 5 games out of the 30 or so that I had. PC games are seriously uninteresting today. I tried to get into WoW and got bored to hell, made it to level 3 which was tiring.

      Recently I bought a new laptop, and now I don't ever want to buy a desktop again. This laptop has 100GB, my desktop has a 400GB HD and a 500GB HD (will buy external enclosure soon). None are close to full but it's very useful. I really no longer care about video cards as my laptop can handle most games, and most games aren't worth the time anyway (I want a fun game, not graphics!). It's nice to have eye candy, but not at the expense of a good game. The PS2 has plenty of games with mediocre graphics that you can really have fun with, beats the hell out of the Xbox 360 (I don't plan on buying a PS3 or Xbox 360). If I really care, I'll buy a Wii. Due to price and non-rediculous information surrounding it, it seems everyone around me is getting a Wii, so I can play with them.

      I could really care less about Vista now. It's the most pointless thing, and I have even beta tested. The last time I customized it and installed most of the software I use on my Windows XP partition, but every 2 seconds the screen would fade to warn me about system changes. I know exactly where Microsoft gets this from, most Linux GUI's do it now, and Mac OS X does it too. But it only happens on seriously important stuff (Synaptics for Ubuntu, applying update on Mac OS X). I couldn't find the option to disable it entirely or disable it to a certain extent (which I would prefer). If Windows Vista is just going to be me clicking Yes to warnings every 2 seconds, then forget about it. I'll stick with XP and Ubuntu, and I'm going to switch to Ubuntu entirely soon enough.

    15. Re:at what point by ePhil_One · · Score: 1
      I agree with much of what you say, but being able to use much better screens, such as the large Dell TFT mentioned in the submission, is definitely a plus as far as I'm concerned.

      But I use it just fine on Windows XP, I don't see how Vista will improve it at all. And I found the article comment on the pixel size on the 240FFPW surprising too, since its about the same as any other LCD. Now had he mentioned the display on my new D820, whose 15.4" display ALSO sports a 1920x1200 resolution, I might agree with him. But the reality is the display is so amazingly clear, its not much of an issue at all. My only real concern is mousing accross such an expanse tires out the finger, perhaps I need to reconsider "the stick".

      --
      You are in a maze of twisted little posts, all alike.
    16. Re:at what point by shelterpaw · · Score: 0

      There's always first adopters and then the it trickles down to the consumer. 10 years ago, not many people had surround sound systems in their homes. Today, you find them in many homes and can even buy them for your computer. Essentially you're tired of being a first adopter, but technology will keep progressing and getting cheaper as time goes on.

      It's good to have things like Vista or OS X that keep pushing the hardware requirements and the technology envelope. Of course most corporations wont be first adopters, maybe in 5 years they'll switch over, but there's a group of consumers that are first adopters, they'll buy Vista and the hardware too.

    17. Re:at what point by cp.tar · · Score: 4, Funny

      What do you think quad core processors are for?

      --
      Ignore this signature. By order.
    18. Re:at what point by GmAz · · Score: 1

      I have to agree with that. A few years ago, I was all about getting the latest and greatest hardware in my system. Getting it overclocked to the point of melting the socket. Now, its no big deal. I realize my system is quite powerful for being a year old and I personally don't want to upgrade. Its expensive and I have a baby now. Besides, I need money to get my Nissan 350Z when I plan on having my mid-life crisis. I mean, women get menopause and expect us men to deal with it and give them what they want during their "hard time". Well, I want my mid-life crisis which means a new sports car for me.

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    19. Re:at what point by FriendOfBagu · · Score: 1
      At what point does the advancement of technology become either irrelevant, unnecessary to the casual user, too expensive, too complex, or some combination thereof?
      You're right. Nobody will ever need more than 1 Gig of RAM.

      --Bill Gates Jr.

    20. Re:at what point by MrAnnoyanceToYou · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Probably because Windows 3.1 and 95 were such junk you absoultely required another option. No matter how bad Microsoft software is today, it's been worse. One might actually consider the former difficulty of use a protection from malware.... Back when everyone really knew what they were doing, they'd notice a virus as soon as it showed up. Now? Yeah, a few weeks later I hear a computer's running a little slow from a family member, and then I spend three or four hours cleaning it up.

    21. Re:at what point by vertinox · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And maybe the fork in the computing world can finally focus on useful applications and customer service rather than eye-candy translucent windowing graphics.

      The truth is that eye-candy sells.

      Otherwise if it was all about utility, we'd all be using Redhat Linux 5 today with Gnome desktop. ;)

      The truth of the matter is PHB's and Joe Sixpack are easily impressed by computers that look as futuristic as possible. At least as much so as those fake OS's they see in movies ("Zoom the image to the right hand side and enhance by 50%!")

      Although when you combine utility and asthetics like OS X, then you have a pretty good balance.

      --
      "I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
      -Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
    22. Re:at what point by JakusMinimus · · Score: 1
      People like choice, they hate the results of having that choice.

      That is far too simplistic a statement to be accurate. It's more like this: Most consumers want choice but dislike the burden of dealing with the consequences of other consumers's different choices as they affect their own.
      --

      You can be an atheist and still not want to succumb to some weird cross-over sheep disease -- AC
    23. Re:at what point by Khuffie · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Vista automatically turns off (or you can do so manually) all the advanced GUI features that take up RAM, CPU and GPU time when you run fullscreen applications like videogames.

    24. Re:at what point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, but they will! And Microsoft will make damn sure of it when they stop patching windows XP one day.

      Naw... they'll just keep charging for the patches ;o).

    25. Re:at what point by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 2, Informative

      I'm guessing ClearType isn't on by default because by its nature, it would make the display worse if improperly configured.

      For example, I too normally use it even on my CRT at work, because it doesn't have an artificial lower threshold below which it won't smooth fonts. The standard anti-aliasing cuts out just around the point where most of my fonts are normally configured, making it pretty much useless. With ClearType, most of the fonts I use regularly do look smoother.

      OTOH, a couple of the fonts I use regularly do get mangled by ClearType (I'm surprised it's so few...) and when working with those, or with much smaller text in a spreadsheet or similar, I do switch ClearType off to avoid the artifacts.

      I guess it should be possible to enable ClearType automatically for suitable screens, as long as the monitor driver installed tells Windows how the pixels are physically arranged so it can perform the anti-aliasing to match.

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      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    26. Re:at what point by prisoner-of-enigma · · Score: 2, Informative

      And then I discovered ClearType. Why ClearType isn't on in Windows XP by default (or even installed by default) I don't know. I had to go to a microsoft website to turn it on and download a control panel applet to let me tweak and configure it. But it made a great display even better... to much so that it was like getting glasses! I even use it on my CRT display at work, and it's better there too. It just seems odd to me that it's not the norm...

      Turning it on for displays that don't respond well to ClearType results in blurrier text. This applies mostly to CRT's, and if you'll recall, flat panels weren't exactly popular back when XP was launched nearly five years ago.

      As for fixing this, you can kind of institute this yourself. All you have to do is create a profile with the machine set up the way you want it (this applies to more than just display settings, but that's beyond the scope of this quick post). Then, log in as an administrator, go to the profile manager, select the profile you just configured, and click the "Copy to..." button. Copy the profile to the "C:\Documents and Settings\Default User" directory and tell XP to make the profile available to "Everyone".

      What this will do is ensure than any new accounts created on the machine will automatically get all the customziations you put into the initial "seed" account you copied from. If you work in a networked environment like a corporation, you can extend this paradigm even further by copying the profile into a "Default User" directory inside the "NETLOGON" share of a domain controller. Any user who logs onto a machine without a profile for them will automatically download this default profile, ensuring your settings are propagated everywhere. Very handy, and fully documented on Microsoft's support site under KB article #168475.

      I admit Microsoft doesn't make this overly easy, and the instructions aren't posted in obvious places, but this has been a tremendous help to us at my company, and I use it on my home network as well.

      --
      In the end they will lay their freedom at our feet and say to us, Make us your slaves, but feed us. - Fyodor Dostoyevsky
    27. Re:at what point by GeckoX · · Score: 1

      Yeah, cause we're talking about win95 here aren't we? lol.

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      No Comment.
    28. Re:at what point by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Even now, people don't upgrade their PC every two years like in the mid-90s. People now wait for 4 or 5 years, some even more.

      I don't think home users ever really upgraded that often, other than the geeks.

      What's changed, IME, is that businesses are breaking the three-year upgrade cycle that used to be accepted without question, and instead asking what measurable benefits will come from splashing out another few thousand on faster desktops for Susie Secretary and Ollie Officeworker. That, combined with major software firms having much longer release cycles for big name products and then not offering much real improvement anyway when they finally turn up, means the bean counters are finally starting to notice that a lot of computer hardware and software is vastly overpriced for the benefits it brings, and they're challenging the expense.

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    29. Re:at what point by z0I!) · · Score: 1

      Good point, I am still running Windows 2000 on my main home machine. I just have found no need to upgrade + I have so many applications installed that it would probably take me a month to reconfigure my system after upgrading. A second machine I purchased came with XP but that machine is running linux now anyway.

    30. Re:at what point by Nimey · · Score: 1
      who really cares about the arguably incremental improvements for hefty investments?


      Audiophools.
      --
      Hail Eris, full of mischief...

      E pluribus sanguinem
    31. Re:at what point by SpecialAgentXXX · · Score: 1
      How many people are using 7.1, or THX sound? Or, if they have it, have it set up correctly? Or, if they have it, have any reasonable collection of media to make use of it?
      I'm using 7.1 via Audigy 2 ZS and the 7.1 GigaWorks speakers. I've also tweaked the THX settings for the correct angles and speaker distances. And I have a large DVD collection, many of which are THX-sound mastered.

      I'm also waiting for Vista to come out before I build a new PC w/ all of the latest technical specs, including all of the DRM-hardware. I have no choice - if I want to continue to enjoy my DVD collection and add HDDVD and/or Blue-Ray to my HTPC, I need to go w/ Vista for the DRM.

      I think Dell and the others will have all of this pre-configured when your average Joe & Jane buy their PC. Compare it to buying a new car - there is a lot of high-tech computer and mechanical stuff in today's cars but you don't really care or have to even know about it since it is pre-packaged for you.
    32. Re:at what point by plague3106 · · Score: 1

      Did you ever think you're losing interest because they aren't targeting you (because its harder than targeting 18-35 year olds)?

    33. Re:at what point by utopianfiat · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Now opens the problem for MS: It's in the best interest of game designers to have their games perform well on as many systems as possible, and the more resources winblows consumes, the worse these games will perform. What happens when they figure out that performance under linux/ogl is better because of the reduced overhead? Perhaps then we'll see a bigger shift to the open source desktop yet again, and maybe get some decent support this time. We're already seeing institutions which use speed-critical applications beginning to use open-source more often (seismic visualization), how soon before Adobe starts publishing their imaging and real-time editing applications for the *nix-ish menace?
      Either that or most consumers with half a brain will just say "well, fuck that, I'm sticking with XP."

      --
      +5, Truth
    34. Re:at what point by dolson · · Score: 1

      Apparently, you haven't been to wii.nintendo.com yet! ;)

    35. Re:at what point by jejones · · Score: 1, Funny

      Actually, I was in line at the local CompUSA for the Windows 98 debut. I was hoping that I would win the copy they were giving away... so that I could take the CD from the box and grind it into the parking lot pavement in front of any cameras that might have been present. Alas, that didn't happen.

    36. Re:at what point by Alaria+Phrozen · · Score: 0

      Wii will change everything.

      Chant it with us.

      Now if I could just get one of those attached to my penis, sex games could be a lot more fun!

    37. Re:at what point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree. I'm an IT professional and I didn't even know about it until a friend of mine (another IT pro) introduced me to it. I like real-estate on my desktop, so that I don't have to scroll around much, and cleartype definitely makes things easier to read without making me give up my real-estate.

    38. Re:at what point by Cowclops · · Score: 1

      THX is not a sound format. Its merely a stamp of approval you get when you pay George Lucas enough money to approve it. The THX requirements for PC speakers are so lax that really ANYTHING could get the approval if they paid the brand name licensing fee.

      THX is a marketing bullet, not something that needs to be "configured." Having "All THX components" may actually be worse than purchasing better quality components from companies that can't be bothered to pay the certification fee.

      As an aside, the speakers I use were built by Tom Holman, the guy who came up with the THX idea. He, of course, knows what he's talking about when it comes to perfecting audio but I've corresponded with him in e-mails and he agrees that THX has been warped to be meaningless today. While the idea of standardization was his, the exact specs that got rolled out for home equipment ended up being far more liberal than he originally intended.

    39. Re:at what point by PitaBred · · Score: 2, Insightful

      True. I've heard of people still using Win98 up until recently because it performed better than 2000 or XP for gaming.

    40. Re:at what point by pebs · · Score: 1, Funny

      I was in line at midnight for windows 98. I have no idea why I was so excited for a new windows release, it's unimaginable.

      I was also in line at midnight at CompUSA on the Win98 release. But I laughed at all the fools who were there to actually purchase Windows 98 (I ran Win95 and Redhat on two seperate machines at home and I was never an earlier adopter when it came to Windows). I was only there to get all the free-after-rebate stuff they had. And I got a ton of it, there was no shortage, as most of the sheep were there to get a copy of Windows. Unimaginable indeed.

      I ended up getting a pirate copy of Windows 98 SE much later. It sucked only a little less than Win95 did.

      --
      #!/
    41. Re:at what point by MarkVVV · · Score: 1

      At the point you can't buy anything else. Period.

    42. Re:at what point by jank1887 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      "What happens when they figure out that performance under linux/ogl is better because of the reduced overhead" They'll still make the games for Windoze, and up the system requirements, because it's easier and there's enough of a gamer market willing to throw cash at upgrading their rig. Chicken and egg. Games aren't going hardcore over to other OS's until the market is bigger. They aren't driving that bus, either.

    43. Re:at what point by Swanktastic · · Score: 1

      At what point does the advancement of technology become either irrelevant, unnecessary to the casual user, too expensive, too complex, or some combination thereof? This has already happened in audio -- how many people out there really are vested in SACD? How many people do you know who even know what SACD is?

      All this indicates is that the industry has maxed out on one particular dimension of a customer need: sound quality. Product designers are always coming up with revolutionary new ways to satisfy customers in ways the customers themselves never imagined they wanted or needed. MP3's and iPods are a great example of an area where the 'Audio' industry completely reinvented itself- some were winners and some big losers.

      This has been and will probably always be the case. A hundred years ago, Henry Ford said, "If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said Faster Horses."

    44. Re:at what point by terciops · · Score: 1

      Very well put and agreed in total. I am seeing this effect daily. While there is a certain 'snob' value in having the latest plasma / HDD video / PC / Screen - the practical gains are marginal now that we have passed the 10/90 point in so much of this technology. (the last / latest 10% of performance / gain costs 90% more than the first 90%). What is the point, goes the pragmatic refrain, when what we have works well enough. The comparison with the audio world is well made and very relevant. Of course we must move forward and it makes the lower 90% equipment more affordable for the 99.9% who don't need, want or care about the bleeding edge 10%.

    45. Re:at what point by jdcool88 · · Score: 1

      At what point does technological advancement become painful? When prices rise faster than my interest in the product. When large businesses want to take away my freedoms as a consumer (DRM). When the companies on top push technologies that we don't need just to make another buck.

      This is why I'll stay away from Vista, HDTV, Blu-Ray, and PS3. When the large companies that push this tech wake up and remember that there is a CONSUMER behind the dollar signs (or when they collapse), then we'll see start seeing tech improvements we care about.

    46. Re:at what point by ickleberry · · Score: 0

      I'm only 18 and im thinking the same, nothing to do with age

    47. Re:at what point by HoboMaster · · Score: 1

      Not just that, but "no one will ever need more than 640k of RAM." -That Same Guy

      --
      Remember kids, tin foil doesn't work, so use LeadHat.
    48. Re:at what point by FireFury03 · · Score: 1

      A heavy weight OS such as vista is not good for gaming, all the extra memory, cpu and gpu time consumed by the OS is no longer available for the game.

      You know, *exactly* the same thing was said by most people with a clue when Microsoft originally invented DirectX and said that Win95 was suitable for games. And they even bundled their wonderful "Hover" game as a proof of concept, which really just proved that yes, the performance of games under Windows really was as bad as expected.

      But you know what? It turned out that people were willing to take the hit just so they could run their game without rebooting into DOS. Expect the same thing to happen with Vista.

    49. Re:at what point by Bender0x7D1 · · Score: 1
      I am roughly the same age as you and I also find myself caring less about the latest tech. I think I can identify a few root causes...

      I have less time to mess around with new gear. I only learn the basic functions of new gear (such as cell phones) because I don't have time to figure out all the features, or to use them.

      I have learned the value of my money. I don't need to spend a couple grand buying a brand new system to get a little better framerate or slightly shorter compile times. My current system is a few years old and I don't have any problems with my apps, and a new system won't make me type any faster or let me enjoy movies at twice the speed. I would rather save my money for travel.

      I have learned that new tech is just that - new. There are a lot of bugs and other issues that haven't been worked out yet. I want my tech to work well and be hassle free.

      The "new" technology is new, but it isn't better. Better graphics? OK. But is it a better game? No. I can keep my PS2 and have a huge library of great games that can be had for $20. The reason I bought a DS is the new Super Mario Bros. game. I liked the gameplay. The updated graphics are just a bonus.

      The only tech I have been interested in are the new MacBooks - great OS and not as much $$$ and the Nintendo Wii - because of access to the Nintendo game library.

      --
      Reading code is like reading the dictionary - you have to read half of it before you can go back and understand it.
    50. Re:at what point by DanQuixote · · Score: 3, Insightful


      Come on advertisers, make me WANT STUFF!!

      How about... Come on DEVELOPERS, make me want stuff!

      --
      "We think people rightly feel that once they buy something, it stays bought," --Suw Charman, Open Rights Grp
    51. Re:at what point by Haeleth · · Score: 1

      You know, *exactly* the same thing was said by most people with a clue when Microsoft originally invented DirectX and said that Win95 was suitable for games. And they even bundled their wonderful "Hover" game as a proof of concept, which really just proved that yes, the performance of games under Windows really was as bad as expected.

      If you think Hover was bad, you obviously never had the misfortune to play any of the handful of titles that used the truly dreadful WinG under Windows 3.x.

      I still have nightmares about a scene in King's Quest VII that involved a simple animation of a lump of cheese falling into a pond. It ran at literally 0.2 frames per minute.

    52. Re:at what point by Tim+Browse · · Score: 1

      Why ClearType isn't on in Windows XP by default (or even installed by default) I don't know.

      Ask the man, Mr Hill.

      Anyway, ClearType is installed by default - you just have to turn it on (I've certainly never had to 'install' ClearType on XP). You don't need to go to the website to do that. I think you still need the website to tune the ClearType rendering.

    53. Re:at what point by Toby_Tyke · · Score: 1

      What happens when they figure out that performance under linux/ogl is better because of the reduced overhead?

      Nothing happens. Video game companies are interested, firts and formost, in shifting units. Why would they target a platform with such a small user base, however good the performance may be?

      --
      "I realise this is not a very popular opinion but it's the truth, and there for needs to be said" -Bill Hicks
    54. Re:at what point by Fallen+Mongoose · · Score: 1

      How many people know that THX isn't a sound format but actually a certification of the quality of the movie watching environment including picture quality, sound system quality, and ambient sound levels.

    55. Re:at what point by joh · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Although when you combine utility and asthetics like OS X, then you have a pretty good balance.

      I was about to write a hefty comment on your posting 'till I read that sentence. Yes. The trouble with eye candy is that it is candy, if it is used wise or not and can be tasty and rotten your teeth or just rotten your teeth. I'm using OS X for about one year and a half now for desktop stuff (Linux and FreeBSD still rule for server tasks) and whenever I have to use Gnome or KDE or XP I miss some of that very useful eyecandy. Expose is a simple and beautiful thing and I desperately miss it on XP (and from what I've seen from Vista I don't doubt it will be looking great, but I doubt it will be useful). Not because it is pretty but because it solves the task at hand (showing me the desktop or all open windows) in a very natural, fluid way that is easily embedded in muscle memory and easy on the eyes and mind. And that's just an example. Don't get me started on Gnome or even KDE (Gnome has heard the shot at least, but they're still lacking the resources to get the truth nailed to the forehead of every developer out there).

      Not that OS X is perfect (all OS's suck), but it just sucks so much less that I would moderate your post up just for that sentence if I had any moderator points available now.

      Yes, being able to balance asthetics and eye candy and features in a way that makes the OS and the apps behave naturally and don't get in the way, that's the big problem. Highres screens and powerful graphics can help, but not by being highres and powerful but by being used in a wise manner. Vista doesn't look like that, sorry.

    56. Re:at what point by Alioth · · Score: 2, Informative

      Sorry to be pedantic, but if you "could really care less about Vista", this implies that you actually care about it a lot. The phrase you're looking for is "couldn't care less".

    57. Re:at what point by edflyerssn007 · · Score: 1

      The popup warning things are called UAC, and it was very easy to find for me. I just typed UAC in the help search and it brought me right where I needed to go. I turned it off, and voila no more fading to ask for admin privelges anymore.

      -Ed

      --
      So you see what had happened was....
    58. Re:at what point by aminorex · · Score: 1

      But thanks to Rutkowskaya games can just give Vista the blue pill, and relegate it to TSR land.

      --
      -I like my women like I like my tea: green-
    59. Re:at what point by From+A+Far+Away+Land · · Score: 1

      I know everyone I meet is happy about throwing away their DVD player in favour of a new format, and updating their DVD collection to BluRay or whatever other HDDVD format is next. People will be thrilled to find out their monitor no longer works, and their TV doesn't get any channels after Vista implements PVP DRM, and the FCC finally turns off analog TV in favour of digital. The progress potential is staggering, but not so staggering as the profits to be made in the manufacturing and entertainment industries.

      Never mind there will be hundreds of millions of useless monitors, TVs, DVD players and the like to throw into the landfills. I'm sure we can make room, and drink around the lead poisoned ground water.

    60. Re:at what point by kevlarman · · Score: 1

      most games i know won't work on just half a core.

      --
      A mouse is a device used to point to the xterm you want to type in
    61. Re:at what point by Lorkki · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'm still relatively early in that age segment and I can't help thinking that Vista is set to bring a plethora of completely unnecessary hardware "advancements" to desktop users.

      Gaming and high-end work are areas in themselves, but even the "low-end" of today is ridiculously overpowered for basic desktop work. The grandma of a few years into the future will perhaps have the privilege of buying a multi-core workstation with several gigabytes of memory and a versatile programmable GPU - in order to read her e-mail and write a few letters.

      Not that hardware vendors will complain, mind you.

    62. Re:at what point by nuggetman · · Score: 1

      No, could care less is the proper phrase. It's meant to be ironic. You know, like rain on your wedding day or a free ride when you already paid?

      --
      ...and that's all there is to it.
    63. Re:at what point by Rogue+Pat · · Score: 1
      Vista automatically turns off (or you can do so manually) all the advanced GUI features that take up RAM, CPU and GPU time when you run fullscreen applications like videogames.
      Exactly what OS GUI is there to turn off when something runs fullscreen? Am i missing something?
    64. Re:at what point by x_MeRLiN_x · · Score: 0

      You're from the US, no? I - and everyone I know - have always used "couldn't care less", but I have noticed many using what you reference online, so perhaps it depends on where you're from..

    65. Re:at what point by MrCrassic · · Score: 1

      As a student in Computer Engineering and Mathematics, I find myself constantly using programs like Maple, Labview, and the like and having large screen resolutions is usually very favorable (try seeing a 3D plot at 1024x768). Furthermore, using the computer for that type of work for hours on end can cause a lot of eye strain, so having a TFT or something similar helps a lot. The huge problem that I have with widescreen LCDs is that at regular DPI settings, everything is mostly illegible, but that is correctable (Vista whitepapers say that they improve this, but when I used it, I didn't find much difference with Windows XP Scaling Technologies).

    66. Re:at what point by Khuffie · · Score: 2, Informative

      Even in XP, or other OSes, the GUI is still running in the background, it doesn't automatically go away. In Vista, the advanced Aero effects that utilize the GPU are turned off when you go fullscreen in a game.

    67. Re:at what point by jawtheshark · · Score: 1

      A few years ago, I was all about getting the latest and greatest hardware in my system.

      True.... I bought a AMD MP 2400+ back in february 2003. Sure, I did some minor upgrades, but guess what machine I use now to post.... More speed? Not needed, more diskspace? More than enough for my needs, besides, I have a server for that.

      Besides, I need money to get my Nissan 350Z when I plan on having my mid-life crisis.

      You need a midlife crisis for that??? I bough my Audi TT in february 2001. At a "ripe" age of 24. Now I have a wife and we're thinking of children.... Midlife crise isn't needed for a sporty car (even tough a 2006 350Z will beat the crap out of my 2001 Audi TT, but I couldn't care less.)
      --
      Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
    68. Re:at what point by ortholattice · · Score: 1

      ClearType has some serious problems with smaller fonts. I like to use Andale Mono 8 pt. for text editing because I can fit a lot a characters on the screen. I have tweaked and tuned ClearType with about every possible setting, and I still cannot distinguish a comma and a period in Andale Mono 8 pt. So for me it is not only useless, it is worse than useless. With individual crisp pixels, distinguishing a comma and period is easy with that font. (Yes, I have an LCD, not a CRT.)

    69. Re:at what point by Emetophobe · · Score: 1
      Vista automatically turns off (or you can do so manually) all the advanced GUI features that take up RAM, CPU and GPU time when you run fullscreen applications like videogames.
      Previous versions of Windows did this too, thanks to DirectX.
    70. Re:at what point by Tatsh · · Score: 1

      Well, you could use the phrase "couldn't care more" in my case then I guess, but none of the suggestions here make any sense from my perspective, other than "could care less" when I don't analyze the phrase. When I do analyze, it certainly does mean that I care deeply and could put less thought into it, but the thing is that around here in the northeast US it seems I hear "could care less" more than "couldn't care less", and the understanding that it means they simply don't care is pretty much 100%.

    71. Re:at what point by AbRASiON · · Score: 1

      Rubbish,

      I'm a gamer and I couldn't care less about flipping Vista.
      Gaming is about GAMES the ONLY thing Vista does is forcibly make XP users upgrade to Vista for DX10 games (so the rumour goes) - otherwise it's an OS, underneath our games.

      I'd switch to ubuntu in a heartbeat if it had a little bit better hardware support and _ALL_ my games / apps ran on it.

      Vista means very very little to gamers, if anyone - they should be (sadly) delaying it even further and making sure they add good features we give a shit about, not taking away said features.

      I want a powerful file system and a new way to search and organise data, if they included that (is WFS the answer?) that might change the way people use data THAT could be good but well without even that, what does it have besides some slick UI?

      Slick UI's give me the shits, I _always_ disable everything to make it as fast as possible since I'm a power user, I use the k/b - I don't have time to mouse over something and wait for an animation, everything is shortcuts.

      In short, fuck vista.

    72. Re:at what point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't know.

      "We paid George Lucas for use of his trademark" is about as clear-cut as it can get.

    73. Re:at what point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Couldn't care less" is the proper phrase. Lazy people simply used the incorrect form so often that it came into common use.

    74. Re:at what point by master_p · · Score: 1

      It's because PCs in the mid-90s sucked a lot and an upgrade could seriously boost the experience...whereas nowadays it does not make a big difference if a pixel is slightly bettered colored in a 1600x1200 display.

      Same with operating systems...personally I don't care about Vista and I am not going to 'upgrade' my XP installation. There is no reason for doing so, because what I have absolutely covers my needs.

    75. Re:at what point by GotenXiao · · Score: 1

      You camped out for Windows 95? Sir, I'm going to have to ask you to hand over your badge...

      --
      Goten Xiao
    76. Re:at what point by Lonewolf666 · · Score: 1

      For audio listening experiments with digitizing a signal by the CD norm and converting it back to analog showed that the testers could not hear the difference (Experiment performed the german HiFi magazine Stereoplay). So any remaining weaknesses are not due to the system, but to imperfect implementation. Which a SACD player can equally suffer from.
      7.1 may still have its justification for home cinema because of the directional sound, but increasing the sampling rate on stereo is irrelevant. A definite case of twilight zone.

      On video the difference from DVD to HDTV is still significant, but the tougher copy protection combined with higher prices is going to slow adaption.

      Back to the topic of the thread:
      A lot of Vista's features have been removed over the years. What remains is some eyecandy and DX10. Both may convince some people to switch, but I don't expect a big wave of upgrades. Instead, I think Vista will slowly creep into households via the sale of new PCs.

      --
      C - the footgun of programming languages
    77. Re:at what point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, I use ClearType on my 21" Nokia CRT too. It looks fantastic.

    78. Re:at what point by Corporate+Monkey · · Score: 1

      I agree. I am 33 myself and find that new games don't interest me. Atleast on the pc, most of them are fpses, I'm sick of fpses. The only thing that has interested me lately is Oblivion but I didn't feel like spending 25% of my monthly salary on picking up a graphics card that can run the thing.

      The last PS2 game that got my attention was God of War. I just love greek mythology etc.

    79. Re:at what point by Corporate+Monkey · · Score: 1

      I myself dual boot between Windows XP and SuSe. I just don't get what all the fuss on Vista is all about. The system requirements are way too high. An OS should not have such high requirements rather leave system resources so that applications can run well. The only reason I would have shifted to Vista is that I'm sick of the blue task bar on XP, the black one on Vista looks so much more professional. The other day I found a Vista inspired theme for XP by the CrysalXP guys and installed it. There goes my only reason to upgrade to vista :-). The CrystalXP Vista inspired theme rocks. Hasta lavista Vista!

    80. Re:at what point by tehcyder · · Score: 1
      OMG I'M AGING! Come on advertisers, make me WANT STUFF!!
      How about a nice shiny red Ferrari with two hookers and a case of vodka?

      Grow up, man!

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    81. Re:at what point by tehcyder · · Score: 1
      It's meant to be ironic. You know, like rain on your wedding day or a free ride when you already paid?
      Are you being ironic, or do you just not know that these aren't actually ironic?

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    82. Re:at what point by lord+sibn · · Score: 1

      I've got the mod points for it, but I seriously couldn't pass this up. You say you'd switch to Ubuntu? You are already in the minority!

      You don't give a shit about Vista, but guess what? Microsoft doesn't give a shit about you! Whether you want to run Vista or not, you either will, or you will stop playing games. First of all, you will not drive the adoption of Vista, OEMs will. No new PCs without Vista installed. Regular, everyday, ignorant people who cannot grasp the difference between megabytes and megahertz. As the new system gains ground, developers will target XP less and less, and before too long, Microsoft will announce the end of the XP product lifecycle.

      Microsoft has hedged its bets correctly: You are not about to quit gaming, so you will upgrade. Whether you want to or not, you will pay them for the privilege.

      As for myself, I am only a casual gamer. And I do happen to run Ubuntu, which is more than capable of delivering more gaming capacity than I happen to need. I also periodically have to upgrade my operating system, due to security issues or end-of-life with the current edition. Such upgrades (thus far) have never impacted my hardware requirements, and they do not require me to buy a new PC or a license to upgrade for $150.

      I cannot reply to your comment as a hardcore gamer, because that's not what I am. However, I am in a definite minority, and we have that much in common.

    83. Re:at what point by Bert64 · · Score: 1

      They could create linux-based livecd's/dvd's which boot the game...
      This would make games plug+play (like a console), and they wouldn't be affected by whatever misconfigured/spyware infested os is installed on the system's drive.

      --
      http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
    84. Re:at what point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What happens when they find out that performance is appalling becuase of poor graphics drivers? They'll have gone bust by then due to shifting so few copies. Let Linux stick to servers, like its good at.

  2. The ever vanishing pixel by ackthpt · · Score: 4, Interesting

    But a 1920x1200 resolution often creates legibility problems for some users resulting from the tiny size of the default Windows font."

    Fonts and documents can be scaled, in browsers, word processing, Adobe Acrobat, etc. Even Flash objects can be scaled, if the page is set up properly (which they often aren't, so you get a postage stamp at hires)

    The worst thing is images. I have a picture on a web page which was, back in 1999, a large image. Now it's tiny and I can hardly make out the detail. Some images can be stretched, but others, particularly those which include text can be rendered poorly if not scaled by even multipliers. Where is all this resolution going, anyway? It's nice for some things, like photo editing of large images, but redundant for most other applications.

    your new computer consumes 200 watts on idle, requires a 64 bit processor, 2 GB RAM, and a phat video card, so you can do what? Work in MS Office and surf the web? Seems about as appropriate as requireing everyone in Manhattan to have a Hummer.

    --

    A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    1. Re:The ever vanishing pixel by zlogic · · Score: 2, Informative

      Vista's Avalon addresses the resolution issue in an elegant way (at least as Microsoft described it):
      display resolution and font size are NOT related. So you can have a 4000x3000 resolution on a 15" monitor and all the fonts will be the correct size; in fact most sizes are defined as they will appear on the screen (e.g. cm, inches) and not as they are stored (pixels). However I think this applies only to fonts and not images; I'm not entirely sure.

      And Opera alows you to zoom html pages scaling everything including images and fonts. Great feature because the layout never breaks (unlike IE and Firefox).

    2. Re:The ever vanishing pixel by LurkerXXX · · Score: 1

      No kidding. They are complaining about the Dell 2407WFP? That's 1920x1200 pixels on a *24*-inch monitor. I have that exact same resolution on my 15" inspiron 8600 laptop. Crank up the fonts in an application if the default is too small. Many other apps scale just fine. There are relatively few apps I have a problem with font size with.

    3. Re:The ever vanishing pixel by LWATCDR · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This high resolution == legibility problems is one of my pet peeves.
      High resolution improves the legibility of text. Just you a bigger font! Your average printed page is 5100x6600. Do you find that hard to read?
      Pick the right font and you will not have a problem.
      images are a different matter but even those can be re-sized.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    4. Re:The ever vanishing pixel by catbutt · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Seems to me that the image issue is more of a weakness of web browser/server technology than anything. There are solutions, but they are currently a major pain in the ass, and are probably better thought of as "theoretical" solutions.

      For instance, say I have a web site with images on it. I could have some javascript detect how big the page is and the user's text size, then request appropriate resolution images. Server side there would presumably be something that resizes and caches a variety of different size images from the highest resolution original.

      As it is, almost no site does this because it is such a hassle to do and maintain. If it was "built in" to servers and browsers and the html spec, though, it would solve the problem, in my opinion.

    5. Re:The ever vanishing pixel by Bert64 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      A sensible gui environment will work out the DPI of your screen (Dots Per Inch) and ensure the default font size is actually a default physical size as viewed by you, and not a default size in pixels (and therefore smaller on a higher DPI screen).

      --
      http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
    6. Re:The ever vanishing pixel by AJWM · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Vista's Avalon addresses the resolution issue in an elegant way [...]
      display resolution and font size are NOT related. [...] in fact most sizes are defined as they will appear on the screen (e.g. cm, inches) and not as they are stored (pixels).


      About time. This is hardly rocket science -- some of us have been doing that with apps since the late 1980s (sometime around the X10 to X11 transition). Yeah, the software needs to know how big a screen pixel is (the old DEC and Sun graphic monitors were about 0.35mm -- huge by today's standards) but that's easy enough. From there it's simple arithmetic to convert a font or feature size in screen inches (or cm) to pixels.

      You could also do stuff like choosing to rescale or not when you zoom in or out, handy for maps. (The apps mentioned above were GIS and mapping software). And yes, we interpolated raster images too so you could specify the image display size without worrying about its stored pixel dimensions -- although obviously a 20x20 pixel image is going to be pretty blurry blown up to 10cm x 10cm.

      Display Postscript could probably do this too, that's been around for about as long.

      --
      -- Alastair
    7. Re:The ever vanishing pixel by solafide · · Score: 1

      Xgl rules for zooming in. How else can you zoom from 200 to 1600% no matter how clunky and non-resize-friendly the app is you're zooming on? Unfortunately, presently you cannot click while zoomed, but otherwise, Xgl is great.

    8. Re:The ever vanishing pixel by Fred_A · · Score: 1

      Pretty much like the DisplaySize option in the Monitor section does for X. Of course the problem is that the apps have to take this into account...

      --

      May contain traces of nut.
      Made from the freshest electrons.
    9. Re:The ever vanishing pixel by murphball · · Score: 1

      But everyone in Manhattan does have a Hummer...

    10. Re:The ever vanishing pixel by swillden · · Score: 1

      Vista's Avalon addresses the resolution issue in an elegant way (at least as Microsoft described it): display resolution and font size are NOT related. So you can have a 4000x3000 resolution on a 15" monitor and all the fonts will be the correct size

      Yeah, X11 does this, too. Font sizes are defined in points, which is a typography unit meaning 1/72nd of an inch.

      Given that most monitors you find around these days support the EDID API, which allows the computer to query the monitor for various characteristics, including physical display size, XFree86/Xorg usually grabs the information needed for proper font sizing automatically.

      This fact lead to some hilarity the first time I connected a computer to my 50" DLP screen. The X server correctly detected the screen size (1100mm x 620mm), and the appropriate resolution (1280x720, since it's a 720p display), and scaled the fonts appropriately to make them the right size -- 12 points or 1/6th of an inch. Not only are 1/6th inch characters pretty hard to read at a standard viewing distance of six to ten feet, but at 29 DPI, a 12pt character is less than five pixels tall. The fonts were almost completely illegible at any distance.

      The problem was solved by forcing X to ignore the physical screen dimensions and assume that the display is 100 DPI.

      It's about time Windows gets this right -- and this is the right way, even if it doesn't work well for big TVs.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    11. Re:The ever vanishing pixel by Curate · · Score: 1
      And Opera alows you to zoom html pages scaling everything including images and fonts. Great feature because the layout never breaks (unlike IE and Firefox).

      IE7 also has this sort of scaling. It's sweet. I'm not sure if it's only in the Vista version of IE7; I would think it's in all versions.

    12. Re:The ever vanishing pixel by ackthpt · · Score: 1

      But everyone in Manhattan does have a Hummer...

      Note the (mispelled) word: requiring

      You really can't drive those pennies into the asphalt of 7th Ave without a Hummer(tm)!

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    13. Re:The ever vanishing pixel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pretty much like the DisplaySize option in the Monitor section does for X. Of course the problem is that the apps have to take this into account...

      The DisplaySize option has been more or less irrelevant for years. Modern screens can be queried for their physical size and supported resolutions, and this has been fully supported since XFree 6.4. No DisplaySize option required (or ModeLines for that matter).

      To get the font in the appropriate size, the only thing needing to be done is to ask for the font size in points and not pixels. For programs where you can specify the font, just set a size (e.g. 10) in the points part, and set the pixels to "*". Of course the other graphics (e.g. buttons) need to be scaled to match the text, but modern toolkits do that automatically. (Actually, the only one I've seen that doesn't is .NET Windows Forms).

    14. Re:The ever vanishing pixel by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      It should but I find that I use different fonts on different displays. Some fonts just seem to look better on LCDs than others. Some look better on CRTs to me than others.
      It could be my imagination but hey it is my screen and my eyes so I will go with my feelings :)
      I have noticed that I do find serif fonts easier to read than sans serif fonts. Yet for some reason I tend to use san serif fonts for menus.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
  3. Defaults by DragonWriter · · Score: 1
    But a 1920x1200 resolution often creates legibility problems for some users resulting from the tiny size of the default Windows font.
    That's kind of a trivial concern. Sure, its a problem, but unless Vista's changed something this default can be changed quite easily. It would be an improvement if Windows had sensible default setting combinations that applied based on the current resolution, but certainly this isn't a new problem with Vista.
    1. Re:Defaults by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It would be an improvement if Windows had sensible default setting combinations that applied based on the current resolution, but certainly this isn't a new problem with Vista.

      Maybe that isn't the specific point of this story but it does beg a question: after soooo long working on it and sooo many other improvements in eye-candy that increase cost of video hardware then just why in the fsck doesn't Vista address what has obviously been a problem for a long time?

    2. Re:Defaults by TeraBill · · Score: 1

      And I have to wonder on what we are running 1920x1200 resolution? I just upgraded to a 24" LCD and am running 1920x1200 on all desktop systems via that display. I run 1600x1200 on the 15" display of my ThinkPad and it is fine. If you translate the pixel density of this display, you get 1920x1200 on a 17" widescreen display (like the Apple MacBook Pro 17"). So, 24" makes that quite a lot larger. Personally, I would buy a MB Pro today if they could do 1920x1200 on the 17" display. But then people always seem to tell me that they don't understand how I can read my display, so maybe I am not the norm. (Certainly not THE Norm.)

    3. Re:Defaults by burndive · · Score: 1
      unless Vista's changed something this default can be changed quite easily. It would be an improvement if Windows had sensible default setting combinations that applied based on the current resolution, but certainly this isn't a new problem with Vista

      I just bought a new Dell Laptop with XP on it and it has a setting in the Display Properties dialogue for DPI. Initially I found it quite annoying, because I didn't know about the setting and I was trying to set the fonts and GUI elements to a smaller size and they wouldn't go that small, but since it was a Dell and comes preinstalled with bloatware, I reformatted the hard drive and reinstalled everything, and the new install defaulted to the normal setting, and prompted me later on when I was installing "Dell QuickSet". I'm not sure if the setting is native to Windows and the interface was just exposed by Dell's configuration software. Maybe it's part of Media Center.

      Anyway, it's a concern that is being addressed in new versions of Windows. Though personally, prefer things to be small by default and I can increase the size later on if I want.

      Some people can't see, and don't know how to change configuration settings, so I think it's a good thing that they make it simple to change globally.

      --
      ...because "hacker" sounds way sexier than "code drone."
  4. So how long? by y5 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Given the projected surge in sales of higher resolution displays, how will it be until 800x600 fixed-width layouts finally die off?

    1. Re:So how long? by jfengel · · Score: 1

      800x600 may die one of these days. "Fixed with" layouts are very popular with web designers, who like the amount of control it gives them. Combine that with weaknesses in CSS, whose ability to set column widths based on their content is sketchy.

      Slashdot, for example, displays some very unpleasant behavior when fonts are scaled large. Every site that I know that handles font-scaling well does so with a layout whose total width is fixed.

      If you're going to do fixed width, it should probably be no more than 1024x768, and 800x600 isn't a bad measure.

    2. Re:So how long? by mrchaotica · · Score: 5, Insightful
      "Fixed with" layouts are very popular with web designers, who like the amount of control it gives them.

      And by "web designers," I'm sure you mean "control-freak relics from print publishing who don't know how the fuck to use the new medium properly," right?

      If you're going to do fixed width, it should probably be no more than 1024x768, and 800x600 isn't a bad measure.

      If you're going to do fixed width, you're already doing something wrong. How wide the page should be is the user's decision, not yours!

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    3. Re:So how long? by aftk2 · · Score: 1

      Assuming the fixed-width site is built with separated CSS and relatively semantic HTML, the user can apply a custom stylesheet, if he or she feels so strongly.

      --
      concrete5: a cms made for marketing, but strong enough for geeks.
    4. Re:So how long? by jfengel · · Score: 1

      And by "web designers," I'm sure you mean "control-freak relics from print publishing who don't know how the fuck to use the new medium properly," right?

      Yes. That's EXACTLY who I mean.

    5. Re:So how long? by CaptnMArk · · Score: 1

      Actually, it seems that many sites that use 'css layout' are fixed width.

      In the good old 'table layout' days, it was easier to do dynamically flowed layout.

      Just my observation/impression. May be wrong.

    6. Re:So how long? by Reziac · · Score: 1

      Pet peeve relevant to that -- fixed width on the web page is always 5-10% wider than an equal-sized browser window, since you've got to account not only for window margins, but also that some browsers slightly stretch everything side to side. So a fixed-width page set at 1024 wide can require sidescrolling even on a 1024x768 display (the commonest default at present).

      As to the rest of the comment chain... hear hear!! :)

      [Me, I design for a *browser window* set at 800x600, but I test how it floats both at larger and smaller sizes.]

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
    7. Re:So how long? by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 1
      If you're going to do fixed width, it should probably be no more than 1024x768, and 800x600 isn't a bad measure.

      Absolutely, because there's nothing like sacrificing customers who can afford 30" Cinema Displays in favor of those who haven't upgraded their monitor since 1994. Why not make sure it only renders properly on an Amiga while you're at it?

      Fixed size layouts, without exception, are a true sign of a terrible designer. Fixed size layouts that only look right on throwaway hardware from the last millennium, without exception, are a true sign of a marketing department gone to spoil.

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    8. Re:So how long? by Larry+Lightbulb · · Score: 1

      If you're going to do fixed width, you're already doing something wrong. How wide the page should be is the user's decision, not yours!

      Why?

    9. Re:So how long? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're right in that the width should be at the users discretion, however do you have a problem with reading a newspaper? The columns are deliberately to minimise eye strain. Fixed width relatively in regards to em is probably the way forward, afterall I know when I'm researching code I want the browser to be as wide as possible so I can view most of it without having to scroll, when however I'm reading a news article I'll be buggered if I want to have to physically turn my head to read each and every line. That's why some sites still use a fixed width but unfortunately they use px rather than em's to do so.

    10. Re:So how long? by Taimoor · · Score: 1

      Fixed size layouts, without exception, are a true sign that CSS, as a layout standard, is fucked up.

      Fixed size CSS layouts are the easiest way to get a website that looks decent on all web browsers, without using significantly more bandwidth/processing power/man-hours to create a system that dynamically rescales images to fit a percentage based layout.

      Table layouts (fixed or scalar), on the other hand, are a sign that the designer should be dragged into the street and shot. Ever tried to load one of those in lynx?

      --Nick

    11. Re:So how long? by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

      First of all, because the creators of the medium designed it to be flexible. Web pages are designed to "work" on everything from an 800x600 browser window to a 3200x2400 browser window to a 120x240 cellphone sceen to a text-to-speech program to the Google bot to a printer (in every size from postage stamp to A1). A fixed width design destroys that flexibility, and becomes unsuitable for just about every possibility I mentioned except the first. And on top of that the user might be an eagle-eyed freak who likes his text at 4pt. or a half-blind geezer who wants it at 80pt. A fixed width design can't handle that.

      Second, because if you want fixed width, there are already formats much better suited to it -- namely, PDF.

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    12. Re:So how long? by mrchaotica · · Score: 1
      That's why some sites still use a fixed width but unfortunately they use px rather than em's to do so.

      I wouldn't consider a site specified in ems to be fixed width.

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    13. Re:So how long? by patmfitz · · Score: 1
      And by "web designers," I'm sure you mean "control-freak relics from print publishing who don't know how the fuck to use the new medium properly," right?

      Correct.

      Or, to translate:

      "the people who are paying to have the web site built"

      An unfortunately reality.

    14. Re:So how long? by RegularFry · · Score: 1

      If the new medium wasn't traditionally so fragile, temperamental and half-implemented, we'd see "fixed width" replaced by "fixed proportion" pretty damn swiftly.

      --
      Reality is the ultimate Rorschach.
    15. Re:So how long? by vertinox · · Score: 2

      How wide the page should be is the user's decision, not yours!

      Not if they click "agree" with my site's EULA!

      Of course if they happen to be using IE and hit yes on that Active X install popup, we can change their screen resolution for them.

      --
      "I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
      -Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
    16. Re:So how long? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, if the browsers actually supported all of CSS (minwidth, etc) then some of the issues would go away. There are layout issues where you need to force a minimum spacing (to get columns of information to look reasonable, for example) but due to the lack of certain features from CSS and layout bugs in certain browsers you get into this mess where you end up having to us fixed width rather than minimum width.

      (Being that this is Slashdot, most users would not dream of using a browser that did not support the standard correctly, right? Oh, wait, I see IE users...)

  5. Yeah... by eno2001 · · Score: 2, Funny
    "But a 1920x1200 resolution often creates legibility problems for some users resulting from the tiny size of the default Windows font".

    Then the end-user does something stupid and makes the font legible and you lose desktop real estate again making 1920x1200 pretty small. While high resolution is nice and all, what we really need are 37" wide screen desktop monitors to come down in price. Or better yet, something that paints the image directly onto the rods and cones in our eyes. Of course at that point a screensaver will be mandatory if you don't want to be walking around with a Start button floating in view even when you're not on the system.

    --
    -"...bad old ideas look confusingly fresh when they are packaged as technology" - Jaron Lanier (Digital Maoism on Edge.o
    1. Re:Yeah... by jawtheshark · · Score: 1

      While high resolution is nice and all, what we really need are 37" wide screen desktop monitors to come down in price.

      While I agree that cheaper bigger monitors would be a good thing, I really would like to know who has that *desk* real estate for such beasts. Back when LCD monitors were a novelty and cost up to 1200€, I decided to buy one. I could have gotten a nice big aquarium of a 21" CRT for less, but I opted for a 1200€ LCD screen, simply because my desk would be too tiny having a big CRT on it. I still use my 15" LCD screen (1024x768) to this day, and it's just fine. Sure, I could put a 19" where it stands now, but much larger would be very impractical on my desk. Especially because those 19" LCDs are very affordable these days. Still, I keep my 15" LCD because it's smaller, does the job just fine and well, it was so damned expensive back then. (I know: eary adopter curse...)

      --
      Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
    2. Re:Yeah... by Jonah+Hex · · Score: 2, Informative

      I've run into many problems with end-users who cannot read even large or extra-large fonts at 1024x768, while they do fine at 800x600 with normal fonts. Yes they are older folks, and sure they are stuck using a 14" monitor, but like most small to medium size businesses they simply cannot find the funds to get something larger. Price for even replacing a 14" with say a 21" is a major concern, and most of the older monitors out there are not going to handle anything over 1280x1024. I've seen companies replace computers 2 or 3 times while keeping the same old monitors, only replacing them when they die.

      Jonah HEX

    3. Re:Yeah... by jamesshuang · · Score: 1, Funny

      Oh god, think of what happens if you leave it there too long... BURN-IN! Can you imagine spending the rest of your life with a Start button permenantly etched into your retina?!

    4. Re:Yeah... by eno2001 · · Score: 1

      I know I don't have the desk space for it here at work. But at home it becomes a matter of wallspace. You press the monitor into double duty as both your "TV" and your computer display. That's what I've got in the living room right now. It works great for my audio/video editing sessions. Nice large desktop with very readable 14 point fonts in X window. But it's also used by my wife for watching TV, listening to music, etc... At work, I think the best I could do is a dual screen set up.

      --
      -"...bad old ideas look confusingly fresh when they are packaged as technology" - Jaron Lanier (Digital Maoism on Edge.o
    5. Re:Yeah... by eno2001 · · Score: 1

      Welcome to the world of Microsoft. :P

      --
      -"...bad old ideas look confusingly fresh when they are packaged as technology" - Jaron Lanier (Digital Maoism on Edge.o
    6. Re:Yeah... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Simple solution, I use to work with a guy who, when on his shift would set the resolution to 320x280.
      Solution: group policy so they can't change the resolution; set the resolution at a sane value; tell them to buy a pair of fucking glasses.

    7. Re:Yeah... by Bert64 · · Score: 1

      You can pick up a 20 or 21" CRT for virtually nothing nowadays, i just threw a few of them out.

      --
      http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
    8. Re:Yeah... by aricept · · Score: 1

      My roommate's boss uses a couple of the 30 inch CinemaDisplays. For, you know, spreadsheets. Know how many columns you can fit on there?

    9. Re:Yeah... by jawtheshark · · Score: 1

      I understand your concept. This is not going to come over well when my wife want to watch TV and I want to write some emails. But, yes, your idea is an option in some cases.

      --
      Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
    10. Re:Yeah... by jawtheshark · · Score: 1

      I have no idea, but perhaps your boss needs to look into databases if he has that much columns to manage ;-))

      --
      Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
  6. Vector based graphics systems are the answer by also-rr · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Lossless/procedural scaling allows detail to go up as resolution rises instead of apparent quality going down. I believe that Vector Icons and Fonts are a target for KDE4.

    In any event DRM hardware that stops popular garbage being played without a license isn't really an issue - it'll push people who don't like the situation to make their own. In fact that's kind of the best thing that could happen to indie media, increasing the pool of contributors massivly.

    The only kind of bad DRM hardware is the kind that stops users playing, modifying or distributing their _own_ stuff cheaply and easily*. That's the real issue.

    1. Re:Vector based graphics systems are the answer by 0racle · · Score: 1
      Lossless/procedural scaling allows detail to go up as resolution rises instead of apparent quality going down. I believe that Vector Icons and Fonts are a target for KDE4.
      Everything that was old is new again. Welcome to Irix.
      --
      "I use a Mac because I'm just better than you are."
    2. Re:Vector based graphics systems are the answer by snowgirl · · Score: 1

      The only kind of bad DRM hardware is the kind that stops users playing, modifying or distributing their _own_ stuff cheaply and easily*. That's the real issue.

      Right, except that an effective DRM would enforce copyright indefinitely. That's the big problem with it, is that it stomps on fair-use, and it effectively extends copyrights longer than they should be allowed. If "Gone With The Wind" had been protected by an effective DRM in Australia, then Project Gutenburg Australia would never be able to distribute it, even after it becomes Public Domain.

      Seriously, copyrights aren't meant to last forever, and it's not OK to tell me that I can only listen to my song on the CD that you sold it to me on. No, I bought a license to listen to the song, not to only listen to the song when where and how you want me to listen to the song.

      _That_ is the real issue. :P

      --
      WARNING! This girl exceeds the MAXIMUM SAFE standards established by the FDA for BRATTINESS
    3. Re:Vector based graphics systems are the answer by labratuk · · Score: 1
      I believe that Vector Icons and Fonts are a target for KDE4.

      Not quite. Vector icons won't be as good as pixmap icons until a computer is as good at doing hinting at small icon sizes as an human artist is. That's a long way off.

      As for vector fonts, well it's called truetype and it's been around in KDE (& other desktops) for a long time. While it's 'vector', it'll render each glyph in each size once, then jam the resultant pixmaps together on the screen as needed. That's generally a better solution than rasterising from vector every glyph every time it's needed.
      --
      Malike Bamiyi wanted my assistance.
  7. Assuming Vista is Widely Adopted by Oz0ne · · Score: 1

    I see no indication that people will switch to vista, other than new hardware vendors preloading it. It really seems that no one is excited, or even INTERESTED in the features. Most corps I deal with will delay as long as possible for several reasons. I see Vista as the #1 opportunity for alternative operating systems to gain ground. Really, I see this as the begining of the end of MS reign, but that may be a tad premature.

    1. Re:Assuming Vista is Widely Adopted by jawtheshark · · Score: 1

      Most corps I deal with will delay as long as possible for several reasons. I see Vista as the #1 opportunity for alternative operating systems to gain ground.

      Well, go look at slashdot posts from a few years ago.... We said exactly the same thing about Windows XP. Hey, I was running W2k back then and I said I wouldn't switch. I still think that W2k is one of the best operating systems from Redmond, but fast user switching was reason enough to go to XP... especially in a family setting.

      In companies the situation is indeed different: I have worked on Win NT4.0 SP4 systems when Windows XP SP2 was current. That was at a big bank and switching to W2k or XP was not considered at that time. (I do not know what they run these days) Still, it is enough that the big boss of a company buys a new Vista PC at home and requires an upgrade in his company because he is now more familiar with Vista. I have seen these things happen....

      --
      Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
    2. Re:Assuming Vista is Widely Adopted by NSIM · · Score: 1

      Corporates have never rushed into new operating system releases, they'd be crazy to, so nothing new there. As to consumers, they'll get Vista on any new PC next year without even thinking about, the only issue is how many XP customer upgrade on existing hardware and that's hard to predict, though it's never been a problem for MS in the past. As to Vista "as the beginning of the end of MS reign," please can I get some of what you're smoking. I've tried new releases of platforms like Ubuntu side by side with my beta test work on Vista and while I like Ubuntu, it's a thousand years away from being a desktop for anybody but a self-confessed geek!

    3. Re:Assuming Vista is Widely Adopted by Lord+Kano · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I see no indication that people will switch to vista, other than new hardware vendors preloading it. It really seems that no one is excited, or even INTERESTED in the features.

      That, my friend is the devil in the details. Although I don't know anyone who is excited about getting Vista, Dell and Gateway are going to preload it onto all of their new machines. App vendors are going to start developing for Vista's features and XP support is going to fade away and the rest of us are going to be forced to upgrade.

      LK

      --
      "Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
    4. Re:Assuming Vista is Widely Adopted by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 1
      Hey, I was running W2k back then and I said I wouldn't switch. I still think that W2k is one of the best operating systems from Redmond, but fast user switching was reason enough to go to XP... especially in a family setting.

      Fast user switching doesn't do much for you in a corp setting, though, since it's usually one-person-one-computer, or on shared computers, one account is often shared. The real reason to go over to XP is built-in Terminal Services aka Remote Desktop Connection and System Restore. Similarly, the real reason to go over to Vista will be the backup methodology (built-in drive imaging). Then again, it might be cheaper and easier just to throw a copy of Ghost onto an XP computer and image the drives when they are still in a "clean" state (right after everything needed has been installed). Data? It should be getting saved to a server that does backups regularly in any company with more than 10 people, if only because it simplifies looking for files! The other good thing about Vista - not running as root by default - isn't really an issue for most corps since they don't grant the average user root privs anyway.

      What I'd want to see in an OS would be the capability for distributed RAID 1 over a network using something like rsync. Dedicate say 50% of the HDD space on 3 workstations as "file server" space and have it sync the latest version of data in almost-real-time. The synced partitions would appear as a single drive to all machines on the network.

      -b.

    5. Re:Assuming Vista is Widely Adopted by Achromatic1978 · · Score: 1

      Agreed. My ex-employer was still running Windows 95 OSR2 on the desktop in 2003.

  8. Opportunity for Linux by ecorona · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I see this as a great opportunity for Linux. As MS Windows restricts what can and can't be done on their OS, Linux should get their crap together and work on hardware support and on making an user friendly distribution to get the average joe on board (it was painful and took MANY tries for me to learn linux from scratch and this was just a year ago). We generally won't get the older Mom and Pops to install Linux but the average Joe is all we need.

    1. Re:Opportunity for Linux by Jediman1138 · · Score: 0

      Seriously, what isn't? a perfect opportunity for Linux for some of you?

      I realize that Linux has many many benefits to other OS's, but for the love of God, if it was going to takeover like everyone believes it should, then why hasn't it by now? Probably because of no centralization. If Linux was one product, one marketable, boxable product, then one company could advertise, and perhaps it could take off.

      If the Linux model stays the way it is, it will never be the desktop of the masses, I promise you. Linux is a great thing, and I love it, and yes, some distros are usuable by anyone, but it's a niche OS. Without one unified group, it simply cannot win. /off-topic rant.

      --

      nothing.can.stop.me.now

    2. Re:Opportunity for Linux by giorgiofr · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The majority of Linux users plain doesn't care about converting the world over. They mostly want to Get Things Done(tm) and the tool they like best happens to be a *nix. Please do not mistake the small vocal minority for the reasonable majority.

      --
      Global warming is a cube.
    3. Re:Opportunity for Linux by OmegaBlac · · Score: 1
      As MS Windows restricts what can and can't be done on their OS, Linux should get their crap together
      I was unaware that Linux was one entity or a company with one agreeable goal. Here I thought the Linux community was a mix of users and developers all with various and sometimes conflicting goals.
      and work on hardware support
      Maybe you should direct that question toward the hardware vendors.
      and on making an user friendly distribution to get the average joe on board
      There have been many user friendly distros over the years: Red Hat/Fedora, Suse, Xandros, Linspire, PCLinuxOS, Ubuntu, etc. I would hardly classify Windows as user friendly with its multitudes of malware, totaltarian activation procedures, and DRM.
      We generally won't get the older Mom and Pops to install Linux but the average Joe is all we need.
      Linux preinstalled, already working out the box is all they need. Big OEMs like Lenovo, PCs sold at Walmart, and many smaller companies already do this. Those that care about Linux reaching mainstream acceptance just need to spread the word (marketing) more.
    4. Re:Opportunity for Linux by westlake · · Score: 1
      As MS Windows restricts what can and can't be done on their OS, Linux should get their crap together and work on hardware support and on making an user friendly distribution to get the average joe on board (it was painful and took MANY tries for me to learn linux from scratch and this was just a year ago). We generally won't get the older Mom and Pops to install Linux but the average Joe is all we need.

      To the average user DRM is simply the price of access to content from the major providers. There will be no great rebellion if he can't feed gigabytes of protected content to the P2P nets.

      Joe expects his DVD drive to work out of the box. He'll expect to find in Linux products and services like iTunes that he knows from Windows and the Mac. When they are not there he will take a pass.

    5. Re:Opportunity for Linux by PitaBred · · Score: 1

      Really? I just stuck a Kubuntu 6.06 Live DVD in my drive, booted up, and was surfing as soon as it booted. It connected automagically to an open access point, and everything that I wanted was right there. Don't even need to install it.

    6. Re:Opportunity for Linux by pembo13 · · Score: 1

      This is the exact truth. I will admit, when I just started out with Linux, I was quite smitten with the possilbities, and I did try to convert a few people. But I quickly realised that it just wasn't worth the effort. Now I use FC5 and I am pretty happy, everyone else can use whatever they so desire.

      --
      "Thanks for all the money you paid to us. We've used it to buy off ISO among other things" -Microsoft
    7. Re:Opportunity for Linux by sbenitezb · · Score: 0

      That's true. As a long time Linux user I've given up on trying to convince other to switch. Now I prefer them to switch to standards, so I can use my Linux, they can use their Windows and we can communicate without .DOC, .XLS and other "standards" getting in the middle. Standards are the future.

  9. Future of Linux by 0xABADC0DA · · Score: 1

    An operating system emulator to allow us to run our legacy unix / foss applications. User must demonstrate compelling need in order to get linux.exe authorized and activated.

    1. Re:Future of Linux by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      What do you mean? "I want to" is no longer a good enough reason to run on my hardware the software I want to run?

      Then screw your system and I stick with the stuff I got. Because that runs what I want. And that's what matters to me.

      Yes, I'm selfish. I learned from the industry.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:Future of Linux by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

      *Sigh* -- If only more of the non-technical public shared your attitude...

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    3. Re:Future of Linux by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Keep telling them. Sooner or later they will learn.

      My hopes lie on them realizing that their spiffy new hardware screws them over and they get irate enough to NEVER buy any of that junk anymore.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  10. Vista vs. Hardware by truthsearch · · Score: 1

    Currently, only a few shipping products actually support the crypto-ROM needed to ensure compliance with Blu-Ray, HD-DVD, and CableCard. It's looking like next-generation cards will all implement the needed firmware.

    What does this have to do with Vista? On the software side it only relates to drivers, which can be written for any OS. I fail to see how selling Vista has anything to do with demand for this hardware.

    1. Re:Vista vs. Hardware by bersl2 · · Score: 1

      It's because MS (and Big Content, too) has most of the hardware companies by the balls.

    2. Re:Vista vs. Hardware by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If a new hardware will be required (besides the actual drive) to play blu-ray and hd-dvd content, then I'd say, it will fail to establish itself the market.

      DVD's will be here at least for another 10 years, before all people switch to HDTV equipment. And don't expect it to happen soon, there will certainly be more delays in switching-off dates for NTSC TV. More so in Europe and else where vast majority still watch regular TV.

  11. at what point-My reality. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "At what point does the advancement of technology become either irrelevant, unnecessary to the casual user, too expensive, too complex, or some combination thereof?"

    When we all change our names to yagu.

  12. In the Audio Seciton of TFA.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting
    I didn't see anything about DRM.

    Ya see, I copy CDs of music recorded at a local church. This enables the choir to actually listen to themsevles, hear the choir director's version, and just help them do a better job.

    My point is if DRM gets in my way of copying non-RIAA, non-MPAA, non-[Insert big corp here],... Someone's "Base" is going to be really pissed that they can't record their music because they can't produce CDs of their church's music that they performed.

    BTW, the music itself is in the public domain - like just about all church hymes and other music.

    1. Re:In the Audio Seciton of TFA.... by Zontar_Thing_From_Ve · · Score: 1

      My point is if DRM gets in my way of copying non-RIAA, non-MPAA, non-[Insert big corp here],... Someone's "Base" is going to be really pissed that they can't record their music because they can't produce CDs of their church's music that they performed.

      This is a really good point. Doom9, who runs a website about video related topics (http://www.doom9.org), runs Windows and he has stated that the DRM in Vista will be much worse than anything we have seen yet. It has been alleged that it may even proactively delete files from your PC that it thinks you have no right to have That was all I had to see to convince me that I most certainly will NOT be adopting Vista.

      I expect Vista to be a collosal failure. Yes, some businesses will blindly upgrade because "Anything put out by Microsoft must be good!", but Joe Consumer has no interest at all in replacing his perfectly good PC just to get one capable of making the most out of Vista and its insane hardware requirements.

    2. Re:In the Audio Seciton of TFA.... by Alioth · · Score: 1

      Expecting Vista to be a colossal failure is wishful thinking. Vista will be a roaring commercial success, since it will come by default on any new PC, so people buying new PCs will get it by default since Microsoft will stop selling OEM versions of XP. Unless people stop buying PCs (they won't), Vista will be a roaring success. Making a new version of Windows a huge runaway success is about as difficult as falling off a log.

    3. Re:In the Audio Seciton of TFA.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You make a good point, but don't let the [MP,RI]AA hear you. They don't really care whether the music is theirs or yours, if you go around blabbing that you are copying CD's, they will sue you. Thats what DRM is for! It keeps people like you from recording/copying music. So what if its private! DRM keeps the music/film industries alive, and part of that means killing off potential competitors (like you). DRM does the job nicely. You no longer have the right to copy/record music privately! The [MP,RI]AA was given a monopoly by the government. Congress approved it. So quit your illegal activities, you church-going pirate you!

  13. DRM? by Tokin84 · · Score: 2, Interesting
    For example, Windows Vista will support an unprecedented level of DRM (digital rights management), but that's at the behest of the content providers rather than Microsoft itself.

    Why can't Microsoft use its position in the software industry to leverage content providers away from DRM. What if Microsoft stopped supporting DRM... what would the Record/Movie Industry do? They'd be forced to adopt a universal standard, to ensure their music could be played (because we all know that someone would hack the encryption, convert to mp3, and find a way to distribute it anyways). I'd really hope that Microsoft, instead of buckling to DRM requests, refused and did something that helped the consumer.

    Oh, and make a decent operating system which doesn't have a blue screen of death, require over 4GB of RAM to make worthwhile, and necessitate the latest graphics card to gain access to the "revolutionary" (*cough* Aqua-like *cough*) new graphical interface. That might be nice too...
    --
    Most human beings have an almost infinite capacity for taking things for granted. - Aldous Huxley
    1. Re:DRM? by ChronoReverse · · Score: 1

      If by latest you mean integrated graphics like the Intel GMA950, you'd be correct. Areo Glass doesn't require that much _power_. It just needs some features that have been around for a few years now and have been moved to the integrated.

    2. Re:DRM? by nizo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Lets see, if a Microsoft license is required to play brand-spank-me-new-drm DVDs on your brand-spank-me-new-drm DVD player in your pc, this would put a big dent in the desktop market for any other OS that can't make them play wouldn't it? So I can see exactly why Microsoft is gung-ho on the DRM issue. They can claim to be "doing the right thing" when in fact all they are really doing is increasing their stranglehold on the desktop.

    3. Re:DRM? by jawtheshark · · Score: 1

      What if Microsoft stopped supporting DRM... what would the Record/Movie Industry do?

      Lawsuit because they help pirates? DMCA is there for something... If they would not support DRM, your media-enabled PC would be able to play not much media anymore. I'm not saying it is right, but all current DRM media would suddenly be locked out from that new shiny Vista PC you got. Circumventing the current DRM in the OS itself is simply a big no-no with DMCA.

      --
      Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
    4. Re:DRM? by 91degrees · · Score: 2, Informative

      Why can't Microsoft use its position in the software industry to leverage content providers away from DRM.

      Because they want to control the DRM. They want to do what Apple did with iTunes and the iPod. If all downlaodable media is designed for Windows, then they when downloadable content becomes mainstream, people will want PVRs with download capability running Windows CE because that will be the OS that's most compatible with the exisitng downloadable contnet.

    5. Re:DRM? by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Well, let's ponder a few things for a moment...

      MS does not compete with the MI.

      They compete against other OSs.

      Linux is in their way, gaining shares even in the Desktop environment.

      They can't do the usual routine of "buying and dissing", since there's nobody able to sell them Linux.

      "The user" (being generic here, forgive me) wants to watch movies on his computer, and play songs (or load either to his portable medium).

      It is near impossible to implement completely throughly DRM in open source software.

      Catch my drift?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    6. Re:DRM? by Eli+Gottlieb · · Score: 1

      What if Microsoft stopped supporting DRM...
      When Meshiakh comes, dude...

    7. Re:DRM? by DoctorDyna · · Score: 2, Funny
      Microsoft is touting "Plays for sure". Big media producers want their stuff to be labelled "Plays for sure" because they understand that if it isn't, then 90 some-odd % of people using their media in conjunction with a computer won't see the shiny badge. In an effort to grease the wheels for big media Microsoft is supporting DRM'd-out-the-ass formats more to appease the media producers. Blame the producers for DRM, not Microsoft for wanting to make sure that their shiny badge can be on as much media as possible. Microsoft likes their shiny badges. It's not their fault.

      As far as the other argument, where some people seem to think that their OS should be non-descript, small and boring, that might be a good thing. But, you are just going to fire up a game that uses all your video card anyway. It's like saying "we don't want any graphics, just gameplay.". Well, I suppose that explains why Maximum PC magazine reviews a dozen MUD games in every issue right? The whole industry is better off being all GO and no SHOW.

      Personally, I think anybody that MINDS their OS using their graphics hardware, WHEN IT'S NOT DOING ANYTHING AT THE MOMENT ANYWAY needs to re-examine their thinking, just a little. If I can get an OS that can light up my graphics card that I just spent 500 bucks on, and give me a little something extra to look at, then great!

      Most of you fail to realise that this is the exact same argument that the indistry has been having before the release of any OS, period. Examples? We upgraded from DOS to windows 1/2/3.x why? More features, more eye candy. We upgraded from 1/2/3.x to Windows 95 why? More features, more eye candy, better support for crazy people (like me) that wanted to use the new hardware. OMFG openGL screensavers? Is Microsoft crazy? If they think I'm going to upgrade to a 2 meg PCI video card JUST so I can have openGL screensavers, they are stupid!. So then what happened? We upgraded to Windows 98 for...Uh, big shocker here, more features, more eye candy. Active desktop anybody? Who here uses Konfabulator (yahoo widgets), the Google bar, or, even for you Mac guys, Konspose? Raise your hands everybody who shit a purple twinkie in '97 because you didn't think crap on your desktop was cool enough to warrant a few CPU cycles. Thanks, Win98!

      Ok, so where were we now...Ah, yes Windows 2000. Why did we upgrade? Oh, come on, you know by now! But, it was just a tad different with 2000, wasn't it? yes! By this time people had been on the internet long enough to be producing some of the biggest and baddest little spyware / adware / virus / take over your shit- that in order to stay on top, had to start playing a little harder in the security game. "Built on NT Technology", still one of the worlds largest redundancies, made us feel warm and tingly in our anuses when we booted up.

      So, then we arrive at Windows XP. And, the same arguments flew around that beta too, or have we all forgotten. Still, of the visitors to the site, what percentage of Windows visitors are XP users? probably most, if not somewhere in the 95-97% range. Alot of which were the loudmouths using 98 / 2k during the XP beta and cried like little bitches at the system requirments, and eye candy. Some of you may have discovered that you can turn it off, and have since STFU about something you can turn off if you don't like it. Great! We've acertained that the original argument is moot, stupid, redundant, childish and repetitive. Let's all spend the whole day arguing over it now, cause here comes Vista, and ..Lo-n-fuckin-behold, they are adding...More features! More eye candy! Higher system requirements! Better security!

      And, to the suprise of absolutely nobody, Microsoft takes it to the bank, again. Everybody says the same crap about their product, again. And in the end, you all will be fucking using it. Again. Linux zealots excused, of course, as we all know, they NEVER make

      --
      Windows has more viruses because linux has more virus coders.
    8. Re:DRM? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      THANK YOU, I want to bear your children.

    9. Re:DRM? by Alioth · · Score: 1

      Why would Microsoft want to convince the movie/music industry to not use DRM? If they can convince the movie/music industry that DRM is absolutely necessary, Microsoft can make themselves the gatekeeper of music/movies, too - since Microsoft DRM will be the only DRM which will ship by default with a new PC.

      DRM is extremely beneficial to Microsoft since it gives them another cash cow - because anyone who makes a device anywhere will have to license Microsoft's DRM software.

    10. Re:DRM? by labratuk · · Score: 1
      Why can't Microsoft use its position in the software industry to leverage content providers away from DRM.

      DRM is the best thing that's ever happened to Microsoft. It allows them to lock their customers ( & people who aren't even their customers [yet] ) into proprietary formats that are not only hard to reverse engineer, but are cryptographically secure.
      --
      Malike Bamiyi wanted my assistance.
  14. Bluray and HD-DVD are garbage by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I am not accepting yet more attempts from big business to control what I can do with movies / audio that I have purchased.
    I am making a point of letting everyone I know aware of the corrupt interests behind this technology.

  15. High resolution and legibility by ErichTheRed · · Score: 2, Interesting

    With the advent of LCDs that have only one native resolution, this is a big problem for Windows. Imagine that either (1) you're visually impaired enough to not be able to read small stuff, but don't need things like screen magnifiers, or (2) you're tired at the end of a long day and don't feel like squinting at tiny fonts. Windows does let you scale the fonts, but the problem with this is that the graphics widgets don't scale porportionately in XP. Also, some applications and web pages start looking really ugly with scaled fonts. Also, you need to reboot the computer for the font change to take effect, which doesn't make sense to me.

    Scaling has to be something that all app vendors take into account in their code for it to work. I actually have my large LCD at a higher DPI right now, and several aopps don't resize their icons, etc.

    When everyone was running 17" or 20" screens at 1280x1024 or so, this wasn't an issue. Now, look at monster displays like the Apple 30" widescreen display. Mac OS finally got around to letting you scale the cursor size...before, it was a fixed-size tiny speck on that huge monitor when you ran it at the native resolution. The old solution was to change your resolution...doing this now either doesn't work or makes LCDs look really ugly.

    1. Re:High resolution and legibility by setirw · · Score: 1

      Wrong; You don't have to reboot. Windows incorrectly states that scaling font DPI requires a reboot.

      but the problem with this is that the graphics widgets don't scale porportionately (sic) in XP.

      Yes, they do. Only poorly written applications which use bitmapped widgets/graphics don't scale properly. Ironically, ATI's control panel doesn't work at any other font resolution besides the default 96dpi.

      --
      This message printed on 100% post-consumer recycled electrons.
    2. Re:High resolution and legibility by dfghjk · · Score: 1

      Apple's 30" display is 100 dpi. As long as the monitor is viewed at the normal distance the cursor will be the same size as it always has been.

  16. Having exprienced the Vista BETA... by bealzabobs_youruncle · · Score: 3, Interesting
    and knowing my hardware isn't up to snuff and much of my software needs replacing, I bought a Mac. I mean, if I have to replace all that stuff anyway, why not get something truly "new" by comparison? Now my current XP box will become an Ubuntu file and print server in the next few months and I'll move my gaming to consoles. My last Mac still felt fast for about 2-3 years by my standards so I figure I'll grab something new around 2008-09 unless something really earth shattering gets released in the interim.

    I suspect this will happen to a number of us who have been at this a while and even some casual home users will opt out of the MS patch cycle. I wonder if anyone at MS feels this way, or if they just assume their current dominance is pre-destined?

    1. Re:Having exprienced the Vista BETA... by Red+Flayer · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Now my current XP box will become an Ubuntu file and print server in the next few months and I'll move my gaming to consoles.
      I hope you're prepared for disappointment, unless you primarily play sports games.

      I suspect this will happen to a number of us who have been at this a while and even some casual home users will opt out of the MS patch cycle.
      I've already moved out of the patch cycle for my home workstation, WGA did it for me (and I'm running a legit copy). I'd rather deal with more aggresively scanning for malware than deal with the patch cycle and WGA.

      And, wonder of wonders, my technological impaired wife asked me yesterday about getting a linux box (to be fair, she didn't use quite those words. It was more like "If we get a Linus [sic] machine next, does it come with a security blanket?") But the fact that she had even been thinking about the existence of *nix boxes was... exilarating. Titillating, even. A sign of the endtimes for MS? Dunno, but it gave me the warm fuzzies.
      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    2. Re:Having exprienced the Vista BETA... by mrchaotica · · Score: 2, Insightful
      I've already moved out of the patch cycle for my home workstation, WGA did it for me (and I'm running a legit copy). I'd rather deal with more aggresively scanning for malware than deal with the patch cycle and WGA.

      Windows activation did it for me, five years ago. I'd rather deal with imperfect interoperability than deal with either WGA or malware.

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    3. Re:Having exprienced the Vista BETA... by bealzabobs_youruncle · · Score: 1
      I hope you're prepared for disappointment, unless you primarily play sports games.
      It really can't be any worse than the onslaught of FPS and action-RPG games on the PC, there aren't many great PC games and the genres get more narrow every day. I'll take my chances, but point taken, a move to console gaming won't be a utopian experience, but I also don't think you could call it anything worse than the current state of PC gaming...
    4. Re:Having exprienced the Vista BETA... by Red+Flayer · · Score: 1

      At least with the PC you can get user mods. And nearly infinite obscure, classic, or crappy games for a couple hours enjoyment. And not have to pay $2-10 for a skin du jour or a new level to an existing small game.

      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    5. Re:Having exprienced the Vista BETA... by mccdyl001 · · Score: 1
      and knowing my hardware isn't up to snuff and much of my software needs replacing, I bought a Mac. I mean, if I have to replace all that stuff anyway, why not get something truly "new" by comparison?

      I must say that me and quite a few of my friends are in exactly this boat. We're all hitting our mid 20's, about 3 years out of university. Most of us have/had pc's, but are thinking of or have already moved across to macs. Why?

      We're not so much into games any more, and if we are, we'd rather play on something like a playstation or psp - mainly because its a level playing field (hardware wise) and we don't need the latest and greatest kit to get the best out of the game. And its got an exptected lifetime of several years. Heck, my favourite game of all time is Wip3out. Its the only game I had on my PS1, and its the only game I still regularly play on my PS2.

      There's a certain set of software we use regularly now - internet, email, photo's, music (usually ipod), sometimes word, ocassionally spreadsheet. The mac's seem to come with pretty much most of that stuff preloaded - we don't have to go out and find it and pay loads more for it.

      Then there's the security side - at the moment the macs come across as a lot more safe to use on the internet.

      And finally there's the fact that they look stylish.

      I know that my current PC is starting to give up the ghost, and I expect the motherboard to fail within the next 6 months. When that happens, I think i'll be buying myself a couple network hard drive enclosures, stripping the drives out and moving away from the MS world.
    6. Re:Having exprienced the Vista BETA... by labratuk · · Score: 1

      You're going to be pretty depressed in a few years if Apple Computer Inc. becomes big enough for you to realise that their behaviour is almost as bad as Microsoft's. But for now they just have a 'cool' image, and that's all that's important to hipsters these days. And Apple's DRM is super extra good DRM.

      --
      Malike Bamiyi wanted my assistance.
    7. Re:Having exprienced the Vista BETA... by AbRASiON · · Score: 1

      "I hope you're prepared for disappointment, unless you primarily play sports games."

      Please, get out of the mid-80's and wake up.

      A heap of PC centric games are on consoles now, there's a lot of serious games a lot of dark games, there's games chock full of story and games focusing just on the gameplay itself.

      "primarily sports games" is just plain wrong.

      On top of that, if he has an Xbox 1 he can mod it and put emulators for SNES / Mame / SMS / Megadrive etc on there and even ScummVMx to play old 80 / 90's adventure games.

    8. Re:Having exprienced the Vista BETA... by Red+Flayer · · Score: 1

      Have you compared the quality of today's PC games to those on the consoles? And the differences in the games, such as user mods etc?

      There is a big gap between PC Games and console games in terms of user experience.

      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    9. Re:Having exprienced the Vista BETA... by AbRASiON · · Score: 1

      Oh for goodness sakes, this is ridiculous.

      Stop living in the 80's!
      90% of gamers don't USE flipping mods anyhow.

      It's pretty obvious from your posts you're either anti-console or very PC fanboyesque, I doubt there's any convincing you.

      I used to be like that until I realised I'm missing out on a whole heap of good gaming and getting sit back and relax on my couch.

      Please keep living in the dark ages and claim there's a "big gap in terms of user experience"
      Immersion and enjoyment from games is in the eye of the beholder.

  17. Continued... by TPIRman · · Score: 5, Funny

    When your article can't even be quoted for a a paragraph without a page break slipping in there, you have

    Continued...

    officially crossed the line.

    1. Re:Continued... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's why the "Print" option was invented.
      So you can skip all of the ads and see everything on one page.

  18. os by agentdunken · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Why does a OS need to take all your hardware? Its called a OS for reason. Its not a video game, its a Operating System,something that allows you to give your computer commands for it can do your functions. A OS should never, EVER, take so much high system requirements.

    --
    Linux, because a PC is a terrible thing to waste.
  19. Font size? Huh? by Zarhan · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Umm, font sizes are measured in Picas, not pixels, and all new monitors let the operating system know their physical charasteristics. Pica corresponds to 1/96 inches (yeah, ridicilous unit, but it comes from typesetting background). If you select font size as 96, and type a few letters That uses the entire "box", something like Íg, the distance between the aposthrophe and g:s curve is one ince on the screen. For most characters, 72 means an inch (THESE LETTERS ARE ONE INCH HIGH WITH SIZE 72).

    I know that Windows used to act rather weirdly if trying to set the DPI factor to anything other than the default - back in '95, but the situation cannot be the same anymore...can it?

    Linux and X-servers support this too. I haven't seen any problems except with a few gtk+ 1.x apps - and sometimes some windows are sized improperly. You can even manually specify the monitors physical measurements if autodetect does not work, with DisplaySize option in xorg.conf.

    Anyway, with 1900x1200 screen, you get the same physical font sizes as before, there are just more pixels to draw them with, so they look nicer.

    1. Re:Font size? Huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Many web sites depend on pixel precision placement of images and their elements to display properly. Fonts sizes are defined in pixels with CSS on almost every site I visit. CSS was to solve the problem of displaying web sites on different devices, but the way it's used, layouts don't even flow as well as it used to with simple HTML and tables.

    2. Re:Font size? Huh? by dfghjk · · Score: 2, Interesting

      My experience is that none of the OS'es handle scaling right, Linux included. The main difference is that screen resolution is easy to specify in Windows and painful in Linux. OS X is well known to fully support screen resolutions as long as they're 100 dpi. Frankly, they are all fucked.

      I use a 200 dpi display for both Windows and Linux so I get an extreme look at what goes wrong. I set both to 100 dpi and deal with matters in other ways.

      Interestingly, only one monitor provides this resolution. OS X supported it at one time but is now reported to be broken. Windows just works with it as long as you select the right video card. Linux thinks it supports it (to a degree) but getting it to work requires the patience of a saint. Once I got it working I didn't dare change the machine again. x86-64 worked but the exact same config in x86-32 would not. Got to love Linux.

    3. Re:Font size? Huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In Windows XP, changing your font size or monitor DPI will mess up text display in most applications. Text in menus and dialog boxes will get truncated since the applications are coded to have fixed-size windows, and can't handle text that is larger than the default.

    4. Re:Font size? Huh? by MikeBabcock · · Score: 1

      Windows does in fact handle font scaling properly. Go to your display settings, advanced and choose font size. Then measure little ruler bar with a real ruler until 1" = 1" on screen to measure your effective DPI. At this point, it will reboot and scale all fonts appropriately.

      That said, most Windows software designers don't handle the resized fonts properly and have their windows sized for the default pixel sizes because the Windows API is terrible for handling such things.

      I'd love to see this handled properly on Linux though -- throw in colour calibration like Mac OS X while you're at it (the only feature I really like on OS X and miss on my Linux box).

      --
      - Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
    5. Re:Font size? Huh? by wbean · · Score: 2, Informative

      A pica is 1/6 of an inch. A point is 1/72 of an inch. Thus there are are 12 points to a pica.

    6. Re:Font size? Huh? by mrchaotica · · Score: 1
      OS X is well known to fully support screen resolutions as long as they're 100 dpi. Frankly, they are all fucked.

      Exactly. 10.4 has preliminary support for scaling the UI (it's a setting in the QuartzDebug tool, which is buried in /Developer somewhere), but it's very buggy. 10.5 is supposed to fully support it, though.

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    7. Re:Font size? Huh? by outcast36 · · Score: 1

      This guy seems to know everything about Windows Presentation Framework. He says there is still weirdness working outside 96 DPI. Linky

    8. Re:Font size? Huh? by renoX · · Score: 1

      >it will reboot and scale all fonts appropriately.

      Not it will not, those font looks terrible with a high DPI on WindowsXP.
      Which is quite unfortunate as reading PDF on a high resolution screen is really nice..

      If Vista fix this, I hope that there will be competition with vendors selling high-resolution LCD and that those who makes webpage will finally stop making webpage which cannot be resized correctly..

    9. Re:Font size? Huh? by swillden · · Score: 1

      The main difference is that screen resolution is easy to specify in Windows and painful in Linux

      I don't know about Windows, but it's not only easy in Linux, you don't even have to do anything. Default X.org configs will use the ddc module to query the monitor for its physical size, and also for it's preferred resolutions, and will then correctly calculate the physical size of a pixel, so that fonts are scaled correctly. If you have a monitor that doesn't properly report its information, then it can be somewhat painful to configure the screen resolution(depending on how you go about it; most distros make it pretty point-and-click painless these days), and you'll probably have to manually edit xorg.conf to add the DisplaySize line needed to tell X how big the screen physically is, but such monitors are really rare these days, because most monitors that old no longer work.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    10. Re:Font size? Huh? by MikeBabcock · · Score: 1

      Using any normal TrueType font, the fonts are scaled appropriately and very well. One of the few things Microsoft does well is TrueType font scaling. The fonts on my machine (scaled to 112% according to that little bar I mentionned) look excellent at 1152x864 right now, thank-you very much.

      If you're not using scalable fonts, my sympathies.

      --
      - Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
    11. Re:Font size? Huh? by dfghjk · · Score: 1

      Yep, that's how it's supposed to work. ;-) YMMV

      admittedly I haven't tried in a year or so but that implementation has been around a while. Problem is that I use a monitor that Linux doesn't get right yet windows always does. Furthermore, my experience with KVM's is that they don't pass DDC correctly (at least none of mine do). As a result, I've never had a Linux install get dpi correct. :( Perhaps I need better KVM's.

      I don't always want a 120 dpi display set to 120 dpi either. Depends on how close I sit to it. X, by virtue of the screen dimensions, makes setting that less convenient. Windows lets you enter the number directly.

    12. Re:Font size? Huh? by swillden · · Score: 1

      X, by virtue of the screen dimensions, makes setting that less convenient.

      Actually, you can override the whole screen dimension thing, and just force it to a value. You do it by setting the '-dpi' parameter to X. Unfortunately, exactly *how* you set that parameter varies depending on how X gets started. In my case, since I ust kdm as my login manager, I edit the "ServerArgsLocal" option in kdmrc. I'm not sure how you do it for gdm. For xdm, and other plain-vanilla display managers, you do it in the Xservers file.

      I'm not aware of any GUI tool that lets you set the DPI.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    13. Re:Font size? Huh? by labratuk · · Score: 1
      Got to love Linux.

      Yeah, because if you'd taken the time to actually debug the behaviour, you could have tracked it down, seeing as the communication between all the components is out in the open, as opposed to proprietary systems where it's all hidden in a black box. Once something goes wrong, there is often no way of finding the source of problems.

      And then you could have got the bug fixed so nobody else ran into this.
      --
      Malike Bamiyi wanted my assistance.
    14. Re:Font size? Huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Setting the screen resolution in Linux is a 10 second job (seriously). You can also tab through different screen resolutions (no reboots or anything silly like that). It changes the screen instantly. I can see adjusting screen resolution in the other systems being a pain, but in Linux, its dead simple (to test my timing, during the typing of this article, I changed it, and changed it back, testing each time. Yep, 10 seconds does very well (each time, so 20 seconds total), although as stated, you can tab through resolutions. It doesn't matter what software/icons/cursors you have. If you tab to an new resolution, *EVERYTHING* changes --the screen becomes like a magnified image though in low res, so there are parts of the screen that are off-monitor. Moving the mouse to the edge of what you can see causes everything to scroll in the direction of the mouse pointer.

    15. Re:Font size? Huh? by The+Master+Control+P · · Score: 1
      The main difference is that screen resolution is easy to specify in Windows and painful in Linux.
      O rly?
      Suse 10: Yast -> hardware -> monitor -> choose resolution
      Windows: Control Panel -> display -> choose resolution

      Big difference indeed. Now, what's painful is trying to imagine what the hell they were thinking when they decided to name *every* resolution after VGA. "VGA" stands for "Video Graphics Adaptor"; WTF do UXGA, SXGA, QUXGA, and WXGA stand for? WSXGA+? IMHO the abuse of acronyms indicates that some marketoid needs to STFU and GBTW (or preferably DIAF).
    16. Re:Font size? Huh? by dfghjk · · Score: 1

      yes, if i'd wanted to...but i didn't. not every user desires to be a developer.

      of course, in this case it was a 64-bit vs 32-bit issue and closed source drivers were involved.

      there's always an apologist.

    17. Re:Font size? Huh? by dfghjk · · Score: 1

      display dpi is what I was talking about, not the video mode.

      as far as what you were talking about, that depends on how the X config file is set up. In my case, I had to do that by hand and it was not easy.

    18. Re:Font size? Huh? by dfghjk · · Score: 1

      monitor standards is where those came from for better or worse.

      as for SuSE 10, that's one distro and relatively new. Nice to see it finally coming around.

    19. Re:Font size? Huh? by labratuk · · Score: 1
      yes, if i'd wanted to...but i didn't.

      But had you wanted to, you could have.

      Although seeing as you were using nonfree drivers it's a bit of a moot point.
      --
      Malike Bamiyi wanted my assistance.
  20. Broken font rendering? by zdzichu · · Score: 3, Interesting

    But a 1920x1200 resolution often creates legibility problems for some users resulting from the tiny size of the default Windows font.

    Only if font rendering are broken on such OS. Font size is configured in points, which are physical unit equaling about 0.35 mm (or 0.014 inch). Now matter what resolution is, ten point font will always be 3,5mm high. Higher resolution can help -- if resolution is bigger, there will be more pixels per those 3,5mm, so font will look better. That's why configuring display DPI is so important when it's not autodetected.

    --
    :wq
    1. Re:Broken font rendering? by dfghjk · · Score: 1

      but how big a glyph is on the screen is less important than how large it is perceived. you have to consider screen dpi and viewing distance. admittedly, font size doesn't consider viewing distance BUT font size alone isn't an answer to anything.

      Too bad Windows doesn't completely support display dpi. I have purchased Dell laptops with 130dpi displays and Dell configures the display dpi properly (130) from the factory. trouble is that the initial boot dialogs didn't display properly. How embarrassing!

      I think Windows should be set to 96dpi and actual screen dpi handled separately. Hopefully MS (and Apple too) will get this fixed.

  21. Not readable? by Bert64 · · Score: 1

    Surely the fact that the default font is unreadable on high resolution screens, is the fault of windows and not of the screen.
    X11, and i`m sure OSX too, takes the DPI of the screen into account, and sizes the fonts accordingly, so they're still readable.

    --
    http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
  22. Cracked Foundation by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I can't wait to see all the millions of cheap PCs, most made in China, which carry cracked "crypto ROMs". When those PCs are untrustworthy to either user or publisher, will the entire "snitch PC" system collapse under its own weight?

    --

    --
    make install -not war

    1. Re:Cracked Foundation by SoulRider · · Score: 1

      will the entire "snitch PC" system collapse under its own weight?

      Not as long as the media companies have an unlimited amount of money to throw at DRM.

    2. Re:Cracked Foundation by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      What's interesting is that they *don't* have unlimited amounts of money, just lots of it. But the competition between the media corps and the people of the world is asymmetrical: the attacks don't have to be coordinated, but the end-to-end DRM must be. Only one person has to crack it, then share the crack, but the corps have to keep the DRM deployment process intact. DRM costs a lot, and attacks are cheap. Corps are made of people who leave all the time, while the hordes of potential crackers are always there.

      The corps have already invested a lot of money, and are otherwise motivated to see this thru. They also have lots of centralized power. And most people don't care, would sign away their grandma's rights for nothing if it didn't take too long. We'll see what happens, and soon enough.

      --

      --
      make install -not war

  23. It's called SVG by retro_alt · · Score: 1

    Gnome, and I thought KDE support vector graphics already. SVG support has been a part of Gnome for quite a long time, for exactly the reason you're talking about.

  24. Is this the road to the glue factory? by Keith+Russell · · Score: 2, Insightful

    (sigh) Zonk, what are we gonna do with you?

    ...the article also touches on things like DRM (which Vista heavily supports)...

    DRM is imposed on operating system vendors by Big Media. OS vendors' choices are limited to compliance, getting sued for lack of compliance, or lack of support altogether. So Microsoft complied with Big Media's demands for HD-DVD and Blu-Ray in Vista. Why do people keep acting like it's some stunning revelation, when Microsoft's stance has not changed between XP and Vista? Yes, that's rhetorical. Kinda like asking why Buffalo Sabres fans hate Brett Hull.

    And yes, I know I'm beating a dead horse. But every time I turn a corner, there's a carcass and a convienently-placed blunt object...

    --
    This sig intentionally left blank.
    1. Re:Is this the road to the glue factory? by mrchaotica · · Score: 2, Informative

      No, Microsoft is enthusiastically supporting DRM because it wants to become the standard for it. That's what "Plays for Sure" is all about, and indeed is why Microsoft basically invented it (see: Palladium/"Trusted" Computing) in the first place!

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    2. Re:Is this the road to the glue factory? by Keith+Russell · · Score: 1

      Oh, don't get me wrong. I don't condone the imposition of DRM on customers, and the implicit abuse of trust that results from it. I just think there are too many hyperbolic and/or unsubstantiated claims floating around out there, and they are clouding the true issues surrounding DRM.

      --
      This sig intentionally left blank.
    3. Re:Is this the road to the glue factory? by mrchaotica · · Score: 1
      I just think there are too many hyperbolic and/or unsubstantiated claims floating around out there, and they are clouding the true issues surrounding DRM.

      That's admirable, but I don't believe my claim is hyperbolic or unsubstantiated -- I think there's more evidence to support my explanation of Microsoft's motives than there is to support yours.

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    4. Re:Is this the road to the glue factory? by labratuk · · Score: 1

      Bullshit. Being given an excuse to cryptographically ball up their formats and have the power to say what their users do and don't do is the best trick Microsoft ever came up with.

      And if you try to crack it, that's a DMCA violation, so it's a prison sentence for you.

      --
      Malike Bamiyi wanted my assistance.
  25. 1920x1200 by roman_mir · · Score: 1

    But a 1920x1200 resolution often creates legibility problems for some users resulting from the tiny size of the default Windows font. - on my 15.4" laptop screen, the 1920x1200 is so useful. I can have more than one window opened on the screen without tabbing through them.

  26. Anti trust proceedings? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Seems there may come a time when we can no longer buy reasonably priced TCPA and DRM feature free hardware. Will we be able to file a suit against Microsoft for using their monopoly position to manipulate the hardware market in favor of DRM capable proprietry OS's?

  27. Windows Fonts by Guanine · · Score: 1

    High resolution displays should _not_ be making users squint. I believe Apple has the underlying technology to make OS X scalable (increases relative size of application elements, including fonts, as screen real estate increases) ... I should hope Vista has the same. In fact, I would hope that Vista enables a scalable environment by default to push OS X further down that path.

    Anybody know more about this - I was a little unclear when I read the article's "12-point type will actually be 12-point on the screen." I think this means the scalability I referred to will be present.

    1. Re:Windows Fonts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Windows can also scale fonts if you change your display's DPI setting. The problem comes from applications and web sites that depend on fixed pixel fonts sizes and placement of their elements. Flickr is an example of a big popular site that doesn't scale very well to higher resolutions. Text on flickr will always look small unless you use Opera and its zoom function. Slashdot is an example of a good layout that doesn't use pixels as unit for their fonts.

  28. You've hit, I say, You've hit the nail on the head by ackthpt · · Score: 1

    For instance, say I have a web site with images on it. I could have some javascript detect how big the page is and the user's text size, then request appropriate resolution images. Server side there would presumably be something that resizes and caches a variety of different size images from the highest resolution original.

    Hence the ever increasing bload of code required to render a page and hardware capability on your end. It seems we're a bunch of hamsters always running in wheels, but never getting anywhere.

    --

    A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
  29. icons! by coyote-san · · Score: 3, Informative

    Images are bad, but icons are worse!

    My workplace issued new laptops with ~150 DPI (measured with a ruler). Basically twice what the old standard was. Twice what everyone designs their icons for, so those icons take up 1/4 the amount of screen real estate as they should.

    I was able to get my applications to use reasonable fonts. It's NOT as simple as just setting the Windows display resolution to 150 DPI -- many apps merrily continue to insist on what they know you really meant and I still had to specify 24pt font to get what should be a 12pt font. But you can largely force the apps to behave.

    But icons? WHERE ARE YE OLDE INSTRUMENTS OF TORTURE?!

    I'm serious. Few applications support multiple icon sizes, so I have to take it at faith that the icons on this application actually mean something. E.g., I'm told that the subversion plug-in indicates if the file has been modified, if it's been modified on the server, locally, or both, and probably other nifty information. I can't tell since the icons force that information into about 6 pixes square.

    Controls aren't quite as bad since they're not trying to cram the information into such as small space, but they're still so small that I have to remember that the icon for the local webserver is the grey box that's the second icon in the third group, not the little icon of a server.

    I'm only in my 40s and only need reading glasses occasionally, but mild presbyopia and icons a fraction of their intended size is a bad combination. ... and coworkers still wonder why I prefer the command line instead of the nifty new tools.

    --
    For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. -- H L Mencken
    1. Re:icons! by DarkSarin · · Score: 2, Interesting

      This is the reason that most linux desktop environments are switching to SVG for their icons. SVG is fairly compact and scales perfectly (as long as some goofball doesn't link a raster image into a native SVG doc), and is fairly good about compressing (svgz). Take a 4MB file, which is 7200x7200 (or rather, I am printing @ 300 dpi for 24 inches), and exports to a BMP at 150MB, but compresses down to a mere 800KB. This is how it should be. Even more importantly, I could run a white space removal tool on the file and probably get it down to 500KB after zipping.

      SVG is the best way to go for icons. Another vector format would be just as good, I think, but why bother? SVG does everything that an icon should do (and can, from what I understand, support rollover and such).

      --
      "We don't know what we are doing, but we are doing it very carefully,..." Wherry, R.J. Personnel Psychology (1995)
    2. Re:icons! by master_p · · Score: 1

      And that's because the display is raster, and not vector. Had the display been vector, changing to a higher resolution would not affect its outcome.

      There are two clear choices when selecting a higher resolution video mode:

      1) make more space by keeping the elements to the same size. Fine for people without vision problems or big monitors.

      2) keep everything at the same proportion while increasing the detaul.

      I seriously doubt Windows Vista has gotten #2 correct. Most window systems, including Windows, of course, have gone for #1. But doing #2 correctly requires everything to be vectorized, and I do not think non-Vista apps will play nice.

  30. Early Adopter... pfft by theJamAbides · · Score: 0

    Why did I go and get a Sony HDTV when it was new and shiny? Now I dont' have the wonderful HDMI port to supply DRM information through the data stream, and I won't be able to hook it up to Vista now too. What is it going to mean for the many of us who got HDTV's early without regard to the future implementation of DRM and PVR's running Windows Vista?

    --
    James Taylor
    (No, I'm not related. However, I am on the no-fly list)
  31. direct eye hookups by Quevar · · Score: 1
    Or better yet, something that paints the image directly onto the rods and cones in our eyes.

    Actually, that would result in incredibly low resolution. The resolution of the human eye is somewhere around 512by512. The reason you can make out so much detail in what you see is because the eyes are constantly moving back and forth and integrating all the knowledge together. It requires the brain the know how the eyes are moving along with what it is seeing. There is also a huge amount of assumed knowledge that your brain uses to fill in the gaps.
    1. Re:direct eye hookups by eno2001 · · Score: 1

      Well dammit boy!! If you know about that then why aren't you designing the next wave in display devices. That bit of knowledge has to be worth SOMETHING!!!

      --
      -"...bad old ideas look confusingly fresh when they are packaged as technology" - Jaron Lanier (Digital Maoism on Edge.o
  32. Windows Vista? Really? by Yvan256 · · Score: 1
    NSIM writes to mention an article on ExtremeTech looking at the impact that Windows Vista will have on the future of computer hardware.

    From what I've seen yesterday (WWDC 2006 keynote video), Apple are gonna be the ones pushing the future of computer hardware. Microsoft simplies (tries to) follow them.
    1. Re:Windows Vista? Really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is a difference between how the hardware looks and what goes inside it. Apple may have had some case when they went with PPC, but now they are just a regular vanilla hardware vendor running on Intel chips. Last time I checked, MS doesn't make any components that power your computer w/e of peripherals.

    2. Re:Windows Vista? Really? by Yvan256 · · Score: 1

      I meant that for the "innovative software requiring better hardware" side of things, not the "Apple makes their own computers" side. Microsoft only seems to be trying to copy what Apple does.

      So, when I read stuff like "ExtremeTech looking at the impact that Windows Vista will have on the future of computer hardware", it sounds like complete FUD to me... Microsoft hasn't made anything for the future of computing (hardware or software) for at least a decade.

  33. Funny you mention that... by Belial6 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    While I don't necesarily agree with the why, my next round of computers are going to be considered downgrades by many. In the next few months, I will be replacing many of my full blow machines with much slower VIA systems. My wife mostly does email and web browsing. She likes her computer to be in the bedroom. She hates waiting for it to boot, and hates the fan noise even more. I will replace her system with a fanless VIA. This way she can leave it on 24/7 and not be bothered by the noise. I will reinstall Windows (she is currently on linux) on her current machine, and she can boot it up on the rare occasion that she wants to play a game or two.

    My son is in a similar boat. At two years old, he watches movies, plays music, and plays gComprise on his system. All of these can be handled on a fanless, low power VIA system. While his can boot his computer and load his software fine, he is not the best at turning everything off when he is done, so a no noise system would help.

    My file server, email server, car PC, and camper PC don't need much power so those can go to fanless low power boards too. Heck, I figure that at the end of the day, I will only need one monster machine total. All the rest can be low power fanless systems.

    1. Re:Funny you mention that... by smellsofbikes · · Score: 1

      Could you recommend a source/supplier for what you're looking at? It sounds like exactly what I'm looking for. I've looked at fanless ARM-based systems but they're not cheap and not easy to set up (I'm told.)

      --
      Nostalgia's not what it used to be.
  34. I love that screen by grahamsz · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I've got the 1920x1200 at 15.4" on my latitude and it's fantastic.

    With the editor font in eclipse at 8pt, i can fit so much code on the screen. Probably about 80 lines vertically and enough columns to get two full size code views side by side.

    It's an amazing productivity booster and for the first time I'm actually using a windows system like a unix box and not having everything maximized.

    1. Re:I love that screen by miro+f · · Score: 1

      my god, your poor eyes!

      --
      being vague is almost as cool as doing that other thing...
    2. Re:I love that screen by grahamsz · · Score: 1

      I'm unconvinced that there's a problem.

      I can read the screen easily and i have far less eye strain than I did working at a CRT all day long.

  35. DRM is not a feature... by russ1337 · · Score: 3, Informative
    the article also touches on things like DRM (which Vista heavily supports)
    Vista does not 'support' DRM in the way that an an audio player 'supports' wmv, mp3, OGG, etc...

    Vista 'shoves DRM down your throat like prison king-pin does, in return for 'protection'...
    1. Re:DRM is not a feature... by NSIM · · Score: 0, Redundant

      In what way does Vista shove DRM down your throat, having been using for a while now, DRM doesn't seem to be any more of an issue than it is with any other OS. Vista doesn't stop me ripping media to DRMless formats, doesn't stop me playing back DRMless media. All Vista is doing is supporting DRM schemes required to handle things like HDCP and HD-DVD, that's no different to the decision to support the DRM that was required to playback DVDs, the only difference so far is that no one has cracked the DRM on HD-DVD. In the end, what do you want MS to do, they have three options: Support DRM - lets end users play the stuff without causing problems, it's up to the end user to decide if they can live with restricted rights on the media Actively bypass DRM - get sued by every media company on the planet Do nothing - even if end users can live with the DRM restrictions they can't actually play DRMd formats Seems like the "support" position is the most logical and defensible to me.

  36. High DPI displays by dave420 · · Score: 1

    Vista, apparently, allows you to increase the actual resolution of your display, keeping the high native screen dimensions, but increasing the DPI, giving larger, clearer fonts on higher-dimension screens. So on the 1900x1200 screen, the fonts can be as physically large as on a 800x600 screen, but with much better definition.

    1. Re:High DPI displays by Multivitavim · · Score: 1

      Windows XP does this already.

    2. Re:High DPI displays by setirw · · Score: 1

      So did Windows 95.

      --
      This message printed on 100% post-consumer recycled electrons.
    3. Re:High DPI displays by dave420 · · Score: 1

      This is something very different. If you change the DPI on a 95/2000/XP machine, the UI doesn't resize. The DPI isn't actually changed. The only DPI that is changed is for the font rendering. It seems DPI and resolution have been incorrectly switched in Windows :)

  37. Re: Microsoft and Apple already know about this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Another post mentioned resolution independence in Avalon by Microsoft. Apple has also been thinking long and hard about the problem and already has a technology called Resolution Independent UI that is partially implemented in OS X 10.4 Tiger. You can access it with developer tools.

    Using these technologies, higher resolution doesn't make the screen less legible, instead it shows you more detail (no jaggies). Just as it has been in print for decades, where it would never occur to you that printing a national magazine at 2400dpi might render all of the text and graphics infinitely small. No, the print world is already dealing with resolution intelligently and it's time for computer displays to catch up.

  38. I just don't get it... by flight_master · · Score: 1

    What is it with everyone saying that you need top-of-the-line hardware to run Vista? I have the Beta 2 release, running on this box: P IV 3.0Ghz (1 MB L2) 512 MB RAM ATI 9600 AIW Pro 2 x 80 GB Barracuda drives all plugged into a D865PERL mobo... with a 17" LCD display of course, your usual CD and DVD drives ;) Vista is running just fine, with all of the 'fancy' effects turned on... does it use a lot of memory? Hell yeah... just sitting there it's using about 400 MBs... Is it slower than XP? Nothing noticable... (fresh XP vs. fresh Vista) It is more stable than WinXP though... I'm just wondering why everyone keeps saying hardware requirements are so high...

    --
    "Free software" is a matter of liberty, not price.
    1. Re:I just don't get it... by zoward · · Score: 1

      Try playing a memory-hungry and/or processor-hungry game like Oblivion on it. You'll see that after the OS loads, there isn't a whole lot of memory left (you'll also see how many memory holes haven't been fixed yet in DirectX 10, but that will hopefully change by the release date).

      --
      "Can't you see that everyone is buying station wagons?"
  39. Obligatory? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Someone's "Base" is going to be really pissed that they can't record their music because they can't produce CDs of their church's music that they performed.

    So what you're saying is that all their base will not belong to them?

  40. Resolution is to become moot point in Vista by Agram · · Score: 2, Interesting

    AFAIK, Vista is to implement something original (for a change) regarding resolution woes mentioned in the article, namely Aero will always maintain the same size ratio among widget on the desktop no matter what is the desktop resolution. The widgets will be simply spread across more pixels. This, to the best of my knowledge has never been implemented before, yet is seems like the best logical next step that fosters cross-desktop standardization of look'n'feel and I am honestly surprised to see that OS X has not tackled this issue yet (needless to mention that in the light of this argument the "Redmond photocopying joke" from the recent WWDC looks somewhat overrated).

    1. Re:Resolution is to become moot point in Vista by saddino · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Actually, Apple has been working on system level resolution independence since 2004, and in Tiger it can be turned on via a developer-only mode switch (to allow developers to modify their application accordingly, esp. those that roll-their-own UI widgets). I would assume this will be delivered in Leopard.

  41. Vista's "Protected Processes" by Myria · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Vista has something known as "Protected Processes". These are user-mode processes that are protected against modification. The kernel continually hashes these processes' code sections and verifies that they have not changed. If they have changed, the system bugchecks (BSOD). Such processes run at ordinary user security levels - they are not privileged.

    You might ask what these are for. The answer: DRM. Windows Media Player is such a process when playing protected media. If you try to mess with it, the system bugchecks.

    DoS attack against Terminal Services machines, anyone?

    Melissa

    --
    "Screw Sun, cross-platform will never work. Let's move on and steal the Java language." - Visual J++ Product Manager
    1. Re:Vista's "Protected Processes" by plasmacutter · · Score: 1

      yes, but wouldnt this bugchecking be avoided by simply interfering with it by running as administrator?

      granted its insecure in other areas, but it would give you a fully functional OS again.

      --
      VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
    2. Re:Vista's "Protected Processes" by init100 · · Score: 1

      If they have changed, the system bugchecks (BSOD).

      That sounds unnecessarily brutal. Why BSOD when you can just kill the process? This would mean that the remaining applications would keep running as usual. Or is it a penalty for messing with the DRM? "Mess with this program, and you lose all your unsaved data"

    3. Re:Vista's "Protected Processes" by cr0sh · · Score: 1
      So it is checking a processes' code hash against an already stored hash - if you could (in some manner) take a copy of that code, mod it, compute the hash, then very quickly store both the new hash and your changes at the same time, in theory you could get your change in place before the system even knew it. Of course, if the process in question was self-modifying, and the system knew the hashes for each of those different "versions", things become more tricky, but not impossible.


      Bah - this is why I run Linux at home, I am soooo tired of this bull - it is also why I am getting back into 8-bit machines (currently playing around with my Tandy Color Computer 3, and later I am restoring an Altair 8800 I managed to snag). Nah, it ain't glitzy or glamorous, but it definitely is way more fun and interesting than constantly fighting against a machine which despises you (the machine I refer to here being the corporate/social/governmental oligarchy that seems to be devouring the world). Interestingly, even with what I am doing on my 8-bit machines, I still run into old-school copy protection schemes. A guy I worked with getting a game on my CoCo is working on a system for the CatWeasel card that sounds pretty slick - essentially a very modular interface to the card to allow analysis and backup of data from any level - from raw flux transitions on the floppy/disk side on up to the real data (via a series of software emulation modules that do the conversion, chained in series) as the controller would present it. Should be an interesting bit of kit when he has it done...

      --
      Reason is the Path to God - Anon
    4. Re:Vista's "Protected Processes" by Alioth · · Score: 1

      That's retarded. Why not just kill the offending process instead of crashing the whole machine? Can't wait for the inevitable DOS attacks that will use this to crash Windows.

  42. Sucker by everphilski · · Score: 1

    You do realize BETA means DEBUG code, and the real thing will run faster?

    1. Re:Sucker by bealzabobs_youruncle · · Score: 1

      Sure do, but I also know that BETA was an attempt at being feature complete and even if I ignore performance I saw no real reason to like Vista. I spend 8-11 hours per day managing a variety of Windows boxes, a handful of Linux servers and assorted network devices/gadgets, whatnot... OS X is always a pleasant diversion and at this point appears to be a much more interesting platform than Vista.

  43. ClearType looks worse by SpecialAgentXXX · · Score: 1

    I tried your suggestion, switched on ClearType, and used the MS ActiveX to tweak it. Yuck. Maybe it's because I'm so used to seeing each pixel, but it looks like ClearType blurs (softens?) the characters making it look like it's smeared. I like very crisp text to the point where I can even see the pixels. In fact, whenever I can choose an option, whether if it's a monitor or a video application, I always turn up the sharpness. BTW, I'm using the Samsung 213T (21.3") in 1600x1200 and DVI.

    1. Re:ClearType looks worse by Tony+Hoyle · · Score: 1

      Cleartype does blur - it's how it works.

      How you handle that really depends on your eyesight. After a couple of minutes of looking at it I start to get headaches, so it's always firmly off on any machine that I use.

  44. You might want to check out Fresco by jpardey · · Score: 1

    Sure, they might be able to draw vector graphics, just like any system, by rasterizing them and then sending them to the output (I am not too well versed in this stuff) or having the canvas rasterize it for X. I think Fresco would keep graphics as vector for a longer period, making resizing to different screens easier. However, it dosen't seem to be very active, as the status page is down, and the wiki was closed due to vandalism.

    --
    I have freaks! I did something right...
  45. You can test that with this simple experiment. by CyberLord+Seven · · Score: 1
    On a sheet of paper draw a very bold X, and then a few inches away draw a very bold triangle. You don't have to be precise with the inches. Just keep in mind that the closer the two images are, the closer you will have to hold the paper to see the effect.

    Now hold the paper out so that the two images are parallel to the floor and visible to you.

    Close one eye and focus the open eye on the object closest to your nose.

    Slowly bring the paper closer to your face. Don't move your open eye! Keep it focused on the image and be aware of the other image, but don't shift your eye to see it.

    Shortly you should notice that the second image has disappeared from your vision.

    Congratulations, you have found where your retina folds into your optic nerve! This is a natural blind spot in all humans. You can't see anything along the line from your optic nerve to the invisible, to you, image.

    What the parent poster is saying is that to make up for the loss of resolution, and this blind spot your brain collects data and literally fills in the blanks!

    --
    We have always been at war with Eurasia!
  46. Future of hardware in a DRMed world by LordSnooty · · Score: 1

    DRM, trusted devices, no online without the 'right' software... This is why I hope that the future of hardware for people like me actually lies in equipment bought in bulk and stored by enterprising figures with deep pockets, back in what became known as the 'golden era' of computer hardware (2000-2020) - nowadays running free software perfectly adequately and hooked up to community Wi-Max networks permitting mass communication without having to connect to that dirty DRMed network where you're not allowed on without some trusted, signed, serial-number-bearing, completely pwned network stack, you know, that big network they used to call "Internet".

  47. News windowing system by Tungbo · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Any one remember that windowing system?
    They used postscript as the screen rendering language.
    Thus fully abstracting away the attrbibutes of the monitor.
    This is back in the 80's.

    1. Re:News windowing system by AJWM · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Right, Sun's NEWS, late 1980s. One of the cool things you could do with it was just cat a .ps file to the display and it would display the image on the background. All the other workstation vendors were going with X Window System though, so any vendor doing cross-platform software (as we were) went that way, since X would also run on Sun.

      --
      -- Alastair
    2. Re:News windowing system by master_p · · Score: 1

      Not only it abstracted away the attributes of the monitor, but its postscript system was a fully featured distributed programming language. For example, if you had a large drawing in a CAD application, the editor was uploaded in the display client, instead of running in the server, thus minimizing the transmission of data between the client and the server...that's something that X11 can not do, even after 20 years have passed.

  48. Er... illegibility? by arodland · · Score: 2, Informative
    Has Microsoft not learned the meaning of "DPI" yet? A 12pt font is the same size on any monitor, provided that your software isn't stupid. It's just that on that 200dpi monitor, it will have nice crisp edges compared to your old 72dpi thing. Every halfway-modern display sends back information that can be used to scale fonts correctly. Linux even gets it right more often than not. What's the deal?


    (yes, I know that it's actually PPI, not DPI. But the "standard term" is DPI nonetheless).

    1. Re:Er... illegibility? by labratuk · · Score: 1
      A 12pt font is the same size on any monitor, provided that your software isn't stupid.

      Or you don't have a cheap monitor that has a broken EDID implementation.
      --
      Malike Bamiyi wanted my assistance.
  49. Bigger screen does not mean smaller dot pitch. by guidryp · · Score: 2, Interesting

    1: you can adjust the DPI in windows if the font is hard to see. Most people don't.

    2: Even if you don't adjust it, the dot pitch on a 24" 1920x1200 monitor is .270mm where it is .264mm on a 17" 1280x1024. So fonts are actually bigger on the 24" high resolution LCD, than on a low res 17" LCD. This really makes the article summary somewhat pointless to downright incorrect. More resolution doesn't make fonts tiny and create legibility problems. This is the kind of argument made by people that just don't understand the process they are talking about.

    1. Re:Bigger screen does not mean smaller dot pitch. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Great point. Noticed the same glaring error in summary. It is one thing to have idiots posting comments but mods should know their shit.

  50. Microsoft does not develop all Windows apps by tepples · · Score: 1
    Has Microsoft not learned the meaning of "DPI" yet?

    Microsoft has. Developers of legacy vertical-market apps have not. Many such apps are poorly coded to specifically request things in pixel sizes, but the developers don't care because the apps have little or no competition. In addition, the standard Windows controls resize bitmaps with nearest neighbor by default, which looks horrible for anything that isn't an integer ratio.

  51. Desktop vs. Laptop LCDs by AnyoneEB · · Score: 1

    Since you mention it, I have to ask: Why does my laptop have a 15.4" 1920x1200 screen when in order to get the same res on a desktop I would have to get a 24" screen? Obviously the tech exists to make the same 15.4" screen on a stand with a DVI plug in it, so why can't I buy it?

    --
    Centralization breaks the internet.
    1. Re:Desktop vs. Laptop LCDs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Why does my laptop have a 15.4" 1920x1200 screen when in order to get the same res on a desktop I would have to get a 24" screen?

      Because the manufacturers don't think enough people would buy it. I forget what premium I paid to upgrade to the Uber-Wide-XGA (or whatever they call it), but it seemed like a good deal to me. At the same time, I'd like to see lower resolution big screens too. I was very tempted to buy dad a 23" TV to use as a monitor since my parents need reading glasses for most things, It would be nice if they had 50% bigger pixels at home, and I bet retirees with the money would readily spend the $$$

    2. Re:Desktop vs. Laptop LCDs by FireFury03 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It would be nice if they had 50% bigger pixels at home, and I bet retirees with the money would readily spend the $$$

      If your windowing environment did proper font scaling (i.e. it renders a font at a specific _physical_ size rather than a number of pixels, and allows you to configure the top-level scaling so you can make everything larger/smaller) then you would be best off running in the highest screen resolution they can get.

      If you've got bad eyesight you get large-type books - not super-pixelated books.

      Personally I'm waiting for 300+ DPI displays to appear because then we could stop caring about the resolution. Although I hesitate to consider the bandwidth requirements for a reasonable size display running in that resolution - a 500x280mm screen at 300dpi would be about 20 megapixels. Refresh that at 50Hz and you've got 24 Gigabits per second of data (24 bits per pixel).

    3. Re:Desktop vs. Laptop LCDs by ePhil_One · · Score: 1
      If your windowing environment did proper font scaling

      Font scaling is only half the problem, and most systems have the capability. Problem is Icon's don't scale, and many applications see fit to ignore the system font settings and use their own sizing because their graphics don't scale either. Sure, I can set the zoom to 200% and read really shard, detailed text on my screen, but the menus are still tiny, the icons are difficult to read, etc. So the bottom line is for now, 50% bigger pixels is the best solution for Mom & Dad, while I while away my time on the 50% smaller pixels of my D820

      --
      You are in a maze of twisted little posts, all alike.
  52. When HW vendors force us! (Re:at what point) by ArghBlarg · · Score: 1

    If you use your PC for something non mainstream, you're totally at the mercy of hardware vendors for your OS support, moreso even than Microsoft.

    I was 'forced' to upgrade to XP recently for my music studio PC last week.. by 'forced' I mean that the new firewire mixer we want to use in our studio has drivers that work *only* on WinXP. [Thanks and f*ck you very much Alesis, by the way. Your mixer rocks but you should fire/discipline your driver team, or whoever chose to support XP only.]

    Every device I've seen so far for Windows 2000/XP has a single driver that works fine on both. Why Alesis decided to write one that only works on XP is beyond me. Firewire external drives, Sony videocams and such all work fine with a single driver under Win2k.

    I think hardware vendors with shoddy drivers will ultimately force people to upgrade, as they always have. Ticks me off to no end. There's no technical reason devices using mature buses such as USB and ieee1394 can't work on all Windows versions back to Win2k.

    --
    ERROR 144 - REBOOT ?
  53. Should NOT be the norm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you do research on ClearType, you find out that it's a sub-pixel anti-aliasing system designed to work on LCD monitors. IT works on them because the colors in these monitors are generated by three separate bars side by side, of fixed ratios in the geometry, forming one pixel. They play tricks with each bars' output to try to get sub-pixel anti-aliasing.

    Needless to say, this would be a very stupid thing to do on a non-LCD monitor. If you try it and think it looks better, it's usually because it also makes the fonts bigger and rounder which has nothing to do with ClearType. Just make your fonts bigger and choose a better display font.

  54. Poor Microsoft, being dragged down the DRM road by massysett · · Score: 1

    "DRM is imposed on operating system vendors by Big Media." TFA makes the same claim: "Vista will support an unprecedented level of DRM (digital rights management), but that's at the behest of the content providers rather than Microsoft itself." That's completely ridiculous.

    Microsoft has over ninety percent of the market for desktop and laptop operating systems. That gives it ENORMOUS leverage to negotiate with Big Media. The simple fact is that within a year or two, almost every new Windows machine will be shipping with Windows Vista. Big Media would lose out if Vista couldn't play newfangled DVDs: of course, people using home DVD players might not care. But lots of people use computers to play back DVDs now. If the operating system with over 90 percent of the market can't play them back, DVD sales would fall. Travelers would stop by the airport newsstand for in-flight entertainment, rather than popping a DVD into the laptop.

    Microsoft stands to gain a great deal from Vista's heavy incorporation of DRM. Services like Yahoo Music and Napster aren't using Microsoft DRM technologies for free--they're paying huge licensing fees for them. Meanwhile, every end-user who finds services like Yahoo Music and Napster to be indispensable is another user who won't switch to MacOS or Linux. Furthermore, heavy usage of DRM in next-generation DVDs would be yet another impediment to the adoption of free operating systems.

    Microsoft is not some poor, two-bit player that's being forced to succumb to the power of Big Media. Microsoft is willingly employing and profiting from DRM, in furtherance of Microsoft's objectives.

  55. What the article missed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is a nice discussion of *some* of the things that will gain more acceptance due to the release of Vista. It would be nice if the article went a little farther include discussion on things that should become phased out once and for all in favor of the future replacements.

    On the phasing-out list:
    ATX motherboard
    AGP video card slots
    PS2 keyboard and mouse connectors
    3.5" floppy disks

    Items not brought up in the article:
    BTX motherboard
    Mount Rainier capable burners
    Multicast or IPv6 aware Wireless Access Points

  56. Discouraging Antivirus? by Paco103 · · Score: 1
    Run an anti-virus program on your system that monitors everything around the clock and you'll have a slow PC, for example.

    Are you actually suggesting that users that don't know how to maintain their systems well enough in the first place to DISABLE their antivirus?!?! I don't know what anti-virus you're using, but please tell us so we can all avoid it. I worked on a system using McAffee, found over 100 viruses on it (that McAffee did not discover) and McAffee was still what was using over 50% of the CPU. Any other anti-virus has been fine. I run either Symantec/Norton or Grisoft AVG on every system I administer, and neither has any noticeable impact on performance.

    Depending on the user (some friends that click everything) I also configure the system helpers found in the anti-virus programs.

    Even computers bought several years ago, most users use an insignificant percent of available power. I run a computer more intensively than most 'consumers' that have huge virus and spyware problems, and I still run an Athlon XP 1800+ that I bought 6 years ago, and only use a tiny fraction of the available power except when gaming.

    Seriously - of all the things that may be slowing a computer down, running anti-virus (aside from McAffee!) is NOT something to "cure"

    1. Re:Discouraging Antivirus? by eno2001 · · Score: 1

      My experience was back in 1997 at an old job. We used Symantec NAV. I set all the systems to scan all file access all the time. The systems would just go nuts because there were tons of viruses being brought in all the time so lots of scanning, quarantining, deleting, etc... (This was in a public computing center) After having enough legit data chewed up by Norton, we tried FProt. That sucked even worse. The admin who took over when I left for bigger and better things moved the whole organization to McAffee and they've supposedly been OK. But, I personally don't trust McAfee at all. Of course it's of no consequence to me since I don't use Windows or Mac OS X. If I need to scan something I use ClamAV. Either way, "real time" protection has been a bad thing in every instance I've run into it with using Norton. Even friends PCs. They do everything right as I told them. Nothing is disabled or unchecked. Just huge amounts of CPU tracking any activity on their PCs. It makes a PC considerably slower than if it had no AV software at all. I'm not saying to not run it. I'm just saying it will slow a system down noticeably. Trust me, I do this for a living.

      --
      -"...bad old ideas look confusingly fresh when they are packaged as technology" - Jaron Lanier (Digital Maoism on Edge.o
  57. No change in windows font for 1920x by DeadboltX · · Score: 0

    "But a 1920x1200 resolution often creates legibility problems for some users resulting from the tiny size of the default Windows font."

    a 1920x1200 resolution produces the same scale of images and text as a 1600x1200 resolution, you just gain extra space on the sides.

  58. Can't 'recommend', but by Belial6 · · Score: 1

    I haven't purchased from this store, but http://www.logicsupply.com/ carries pretty much the entire line of fanless x86 motherboards. I've been reading reviews for a while, and most of them recommend going with the actual VIA motherboard rather than third part brands with the VIA processor. If you already have a noisy envirionment, you can save a few dollars or get a few hundred extra mhz by getting a MB with a fan. The boards are still low power, but do require a fan that as far as i can tell is similar to what we had on 386s. This would be a reasonable option for a car PC where the car would produce more noise than the fan. They also sell car power supplies for the VIA motherboards. These will send a soft shutdown when the engine turns off. The will also do a hard power down if the sytstem hangs.

    1. Re:Can't 'recommend', but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Those aren't cheap either. For the money involved, I'd just get a Mac mini. Those things are quiet.

    2. Re:Can't 'recommend', but by smellsofbikes · · Score: 1

      Yeah, see, there's the tradeoff. On the one side, I have free (essentially) loud power-hungry old K2-350's, and on the other I have very expensive, quiet power-efficient new VIA and ARM machines. I'll sit down and do a cost/benefit, but I'm probably going to end up staying with my current old systems. I have an IPCop machine downstairs, acting as my firewall/NAT. It has a fanless 486. It cost nothing (I found it on a curb) and has been chugging along for 5 years doing a great job and sucking up quite a bit of power. It's hard to imagine that a new low-power system would be cheaper unless my electricity rates go through the roof.

      --
      Nostalgia's not what it used to be.
    3. Re:Can't 'recommend', but by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      I have a hard time calling $122 dollars 'very expensive'. Perticularly when the only things not onboard are the memory and hard drive. Keep in mind that even though 1.2ghz fanless processors are available, if you are currently running fine on a 350mhz machine, the 600mhz of the lowest cost Via board should handle your system fine.

      It is of course difficult to beat the price of 'I already have'. For me it is more a matter of noise, heat, and space reduction. That and sometimes it just fun to get a new toy. If I can reduce energy use and noise as a gimme when I buy a new toy, that is just a plus. Not to mention I will get extra kudos from the wife, as she will get a noticable benefit from me buying new toys.

    4. Re:Can't 'recommend', but by smellsofbikes · · Score: 1

      I haven't gotten to look at the page (don't browse outside slashdot from work, and home is offline right now) so I didn't realize the prices were that low. That's more than tempting. Thank you very much for the link and review. At that price, I can actually sell several boxes for $50 to local used computer stores and buy a couple.

      --
      Nostalgia's not what it used to be.
  59. Development cycle by Agram · · Score: 1

    Well, we all know just how long Vista has been in development :-), so at least for once they can use this emarrasing fact to their advantage... IIRC, first mention of its inclusion was very early on when they demoed the power of the new Aero interface.

  60. "Home version" by fastgood · · Score: 1
    The future for Microsoft is dual processors (to run the always-mentioned background Windows antivirus scanning) and there should have been a 7th Vista version just for multiple CPUs.

    They should have gotten together with chipset manufacturers to support a new coprocessor socket solely for running mandatory realtime spyware/malware background tasks.

    I really don't want to purchase additional CPUs that don't benefit my primary applications!

    --
    Background processes will expand to usurp the allotted space.

  61. Still? by annakin · · Score: 1

    >But a 1920x1200 resolution often creates legibility problems for some users resulting from the tiny size of the default Windows font.

    Wow. This has been my biggest gripe with Windows for years. You raise the font size to compensate, and it wrecks the widgets.

    Look at websites too, a majority of them are written to 800x600 and a few are written to 640x480. That might be useful for laptops and portables, but the trend started way before laptops were popular and after 2Mb videocards were the norm.

    Vista seriously isn't going to fix this problem? It was one thing when hobbyists were down-rezzing their 15" and 17" monitors, quite another when Joe Sixpack is down-rezzing his $5000 TV. And Joe ain't gonna like DRM when he finds out about it either.

  62. High-end hardware by bruno.fatia · · Score: 1

    So from now on we'll have to use Server OS to get decent performance with older hardware? I've used Windows Server here at home instead of XP's because of all that crap with everything just being done to be "cute" no matter what it is a resource hog (Ever heard/seen Windows Blinds, StyleXP or Talisman shell?). Would it be that hard to write an OS that doesn't look like Barbie's place? Now that 3D view of windows, how is that usefull? I thought there was a button to show the desktop so you could pick which window you want to look...

  63. Resulting in yet another daemon by r_jensen11 · · Score: 1

    Regardless, you're still going to have another daemon/service running to wait for the call to start the program (in this case, Aero,) up again. At least with XP, it's just sitting there. But then again, the most serious gamers wouldn't have Aero running, much like how they disable the themeui, or whatever the service is.

  64. It's not meant for all displays. by Corngood · · Score: 1

    AFAIK it works by treating the RGB elements of an LCD display as having independent positions. It only works if your LCD matches the layout it expects.

  65. MOD PARENT + by TheVelvetFlamebait · · Score: 0

    Y'know, 90% of what you just said EXACTLY matches my current position.

    You're not alone.

    --
    You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
  66. How to make Windows legible for any user: by nuckfuts · · Score: 1
    I see a lot of people running nice LCD monitors at horrible resolutions because they find the text too small at higher resolutions. A few simple steps make a world of difference:
    1. Go to Display Properties, Appearance, Effects and select ClearType under "Use the following method to smooth edges of screen fonts".
    2. If you have an LCD monitor you must set it to it's native resolution. Anything else will cause text to look distorted. Google for "native resolution" and your monitor's model number if not sure.
    3. If fonts appear too small at the native resolution go to Display Properties, Settings, Advanced, General. Change the DPI setting from Normal Size (96 DPI) to Large Size (120 DPI) and reboot.
    4. Fine tune ClearType using Microsoft's online tuner.