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The Light Bulb That Can Change the World
An anonymous reader writes to tell us FastCompany is reporting on the latest and greatest version of the compact fluorescent light bulb (CFL). While CFLs of the past may have been efficient, they certainly were not effective. However, according to the article, CFLs have come as far as cell phones have since the mid 80s while still maintaining that high efficiency. From the article: "if every one of 110 million American households bought just one [CFL], took it home, and screwed it in the place of an ordinary 60-watt bulb, the energy saved would be enough to power a city of 1.5 million people. One bulb swapped out, enough electricity saved to power all the homes in Delaware and Rhode Island. In terms of oil not burned, or greenhouse gases not exhausted into the atmosphere, one bulb is equivalent to taking 1.3 million cars off the roads."
How many light bulbs does it take to change the world? No wait, that's not right...
This guy's the limit!
"Nah, that's just too much work, let's just start daylight saving time earlier!"
(Lives in AZ, uses CFLs everywhere)
Earlier last year, I started buying those Wal-Mart swirl bulbs and haven't looked back. I have replaced nearly every old light bulb with one of the swirls in my house now. It's an awesome idea, and I wish I could convince others to do the same. The savings on your energy bill is nice too! I have since given away to relatives my extra pre-purchased packs of old light bulbs, and I will never buy one of those oldies again. Swirl bulbs it is!
Setting aside the debate over that statement - if it is even remotely true, then these bulbs are not just simply a 'good idea'.
They are a moral imperative.
Remember where those $100 bills that Hezbollah is handing out come from. Hint: they do not originate in Iran.
If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
From TFA: "The bulbs come on quickly; their light is bright, white, steady, and silent."
In my experience, the problem with non-traditional lightbulbs isn't that they're weak -- it's that they cast a harsh light. Many people I know would refuse to place even the most efficient light bulb in their living room if they didn't find the light warm and pleasing. When TFA says the light is "white," this makes me think that there is at least one problem remaining to be solved -- though perhaps it would be as simple as using lightly tinted glass for the bulb.
People don't see the benefits that these bulbs bring, the biggest thing people can commonly do to help the environment is to simply turn off unused lights and devices.
We are all guilty of leaving extra lights on and not shutting off the pc or tv, think of how much energy we can save if we switched off the internet just for a couple of hours (and I mean all of it, not just your terminal!)
liqbase
Is for the big box stores to start carrying the dimmable CFL bulbs.
My house is almost entirely on dimmers. Its a ten year old rennovation of a 70 year old house. Modern McMansions are almost entirely on dimmers as well.
With all these dimmers out there, you'd think you'd be able to get dimmable CFL bulbs places other than the very occasional lighting shop or online.
I've switched essentially everything else in my house over at this point, except for the ones on dimmers.
flourescent light bulbs are an investment. and for normal people, light bulbs are not exactly the type of thing you think of investing in.
Honestly - since these bulbs are so efficient, shouldn't there be a government sponsorship / subsidization to make them as widely available (read: cheap) as regular bulbs? One would hope that it was be a no-brainer to include this in the energy plan - especially if we're funding experimental stuff like hydrogen powered fuelcells.
_Vishal www.squad9.com
PG&E in California is currently running a program where they take the bill for rebates on CFL bulbs so they can be had for under a dollar easily from Wal-Mart. Stock up and switch all your homes lighting over if you have not done so already.
Chicken fried butter sticks? Do
One of the big problems with fluorescent lights is that they produce a lot more radio frequency interference (RFI) than incandescents. While they are more efficient energy-wise, the RFI issue is a show-stopper for anyone sensitive to such things (radio amateurs and other odd folk).
Has any progress been made in reducing fluorescent light RFI -- or is even feasable/possible?
I wish you were right, but LED's are still far less efficient and much mor expensive than flourescents.
Why not?
Because they:
- are 3x-10x the cost of an ordinary light bulb
- are a bit dimmer than their stated wattage equivalent standard bulbs
- take a bit of time to warm up
- don't have quite the same color temperature as standard bulbs
- sometimes don't fit under (e.g.) ceiling fan light domes, especially the 100W equivalent models
Now don't get me wrong, I love CFLs and have replaced every single bulb in my house with one, but I can imagine quite a few people resisting the idea based on the list above.
That said, they are rapidly getting better (and cheaper!).
I'd been kicking around the 'replace lights when they burn out with CF lights' idea, and then I sat down and did the math and figured that within a year they would pay for themselves in energy savings. I did a write up about it on my boring ass personal blog just to document when I did it so that I could come back and see what power savings I saw.
I would say that I replaced 18 65W bulbs in regular light fixtures, 20 65W 'globe' lights in three bathrooms, 5 chandalier 45W bulbs, four outdoor 150W Spotlights, not including about 8 - 10 bulbs already installed in the 'light burned out' category since we moved into this home in May 2003.
I'm keeping track of the power spent so far, and interested to see if there is a noticeable drop. Noticeable to me = $5 - $10 average. I'm not expecting a bill to go down by half, I do live in North Carolina and it's summer time so the AC is on full blast most of the time.
My next venture is into a PV System to offset the amount of energy I need to buy every month vs. the sun could provide. I'm still investigating that system but it appears that I could invest about $10,000 in a decent system, and get about half back in tax breaks from my state & federal government programs. If I get it in before the end of 2007.
Honestly with the Slyvania bulbs I used, I don't see a color temp difference. There is a slight delay from 'on' light output to full light output and even though they use a lot less power they are on average much bright light luminosity wise. But just in the last 5 years alone the delay you would see from light switch - light on has dropped to near instantaneous. There are several bulbs I put in 2003 that you can count out a second or so from switch on to light in the room. But these new ones come on when you turn em on.
As a rock-in-roll Physicist once said, No matter where you go, there you are.
Or at least make a big difference. Problem is, most people couldn't care less.
Sugapablo
While most Americans have more disposable wealth than the greater part of humanity's history, it is still not insignificant to look at spending $5-$15 on a light. Yes, with sufficient planning you could likely phase that in pretty easily over time and save in the long run, but we're asking that of people who live check-to-check for cigarettes, new cars, and cable TV.
In short, "more expensive" now is even more expensive than "more expensive" later so it will be put off by all but the most thorough and forward-looking planners.
FTA a $3 swirl pays for itself in lower electric bills in about five months well, they don't sell the things at a loss, and the bulbs last up to ten years, so I guess that amount of energy is negligible.
But they're more expensive. Not that it's a perfect example, but just look at ThinkGeek... the cheapest LED bulb they have is $22 ... and that's on clearance!
A CFL in every Home = 1 Nuclear Power Plant
I spent a lot of my weekend doing research on energy, power generation, etc. (See my MyWeb links) I decided to run some rough numbers, and have come to the conclusion that the best use of government funds is to probably have a CFL handout/trade-in program.
There are an estimated 110M households in the US, so if you replaced one 60W incandescent with a similarly lumen-rated 13W CFL (I'd estimate a distribution cost of $100M-200M), you'd save just over $4.1B in electrical bills over the lifetime of the bulbs ($0.10/kWh over 8000 hours). At 5 hours/evening of usage (~4.4yr), we're looking at almost a billion bucks a year. That's not a bad ROI.
Another interesting figure that comes out of that is that we're talking about a significantly large amount of power saved. Over the bulb lifetime, the number comes out to over 41M MWh, or based on the 4.4y estimated lifetime, about 9.4M MWh/yr. That's more than your average 1000MW nuclear power plant will be able to generate (about 7.8M MWh at 90% efficiency), and a significantly lower cost ($2-4/MWh for handing out light bulbs versus $50-80/MWh).
So, replacing 1 incadescent light-bulb in each of the 110M households in the country would save the equivalent of one nuclear power plant (or better yet, a bunch of fossil fuel ones, which function at a much lower efficiency (around 60%) and are usually lower capacity).
It's probably fair to say that up to 4 bulbs per house could be replaced before the law of diminishing returns kicks in. So we could save the equivalent of 4 nuclear power plants or 8-10 "dirty" power plants at 1/10th the cost of operating them, plus saving all the externalities like reduced pollution too.
I've replaced all the outside lighting and the utility lighting in the basement with CFLs. All in all, I've replaced 700W of incandescents with 137W of fluorescent. They're much brighter, faster to come to full output, and purer white than any compact fluorescent bulb from the last generation.
They're absolutely perfect for work and utility areas. For living areas and reading light, however, I still prefer tungsten bulbs.
At 3 A.M. you can see people's auras; at five you can see their contrails...
I have CFLs in my bathroom, bedrooms, hallway, washroom and garage. The only reason they aren't in the other rooms is because of light fixture limitations or the existing bulbs haven't burnt out yet. I have two different styles. One is the exposed spiral style, and those ones are warm and bright. All of those ones I have are either in can lights, or behind some type of glass. I had another few that had a spherical bulb over the CFL, those were a bit more warm (just a touch of yellow). The bulb made them a bit large for some fixtures though, so they are now lighting my garage.
-Rick
"Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
I'm curious about the future of LED light bulbs - the potential from a bulb w/ 60,000 hours of life and power consumption under a watt is very attractive. I know light dispersion is an issue (e.g. they just don't throw out enough light), but what's on the horizon?
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I recently picked up 4 new flourescent bulbs at Walmart that didn't look like coils. They were actually close to the shape of a normal incandescent bulb. I placed the in a bathroom that had 4 lights above a mirror (you've probably seen that kind of setup a thousand times), so naturally you don't need the kind of light you get from 4 100 watt bulbs. I'm surprised at the quality of light that I'm getting, and they don't look funny either. (they're fully exposed bulbs). They even had the "tulip" shaped bulbs that you might put in a ceiling fixture. I may replace my bulbs in my ceiling fans with them.
One roadblock on the path to acceptance is the color temp or quality of light for these bulbs. As soon as I can secretly replace the bulbs in my house and my wife doesn't walk into the first room screaming at me, "Oh, my eyes!", I'll covert the whole house.
While the all too warm traditional bulb is rather a poor standard, it is what we're used to. CFLs are way too blue. Too cold.
I've tried a few (rather expensive) CFLs. Haven't found one yet that isn't religated to an less travelled part of the house -- usually closets.
For desk lamps the GE "full spectrum" natural light bulbs are the best yet. If the CFLs could put out that light I'd buy them at twice the price.
I just installed 100 cfl's at the school. They were all from donations so there was a variety of bulbs. Some of them are as you describe, but some were really awesome. SOme of them don't have a warm up time, and some are actually much, much, much brighter than the incadecent equivelent makred on the wrapper. I guess it depends on the brand. How many people at home really know or care about "color temperature"?
Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
I've replaced most of the bulbs in my house too, but what I don't see this article addressing is the total bulb lifecycle. These things have mercury in them, which will probably mean people screaming about disposal when they DO have to be replaced. Are there recycling programs in place? What's the environmental impact of making them in the first place, compared to incadescents?
You could see sheets of uncut $100 bills in one of the photos taken in the region.
1
http://www.kxma.com/getARticle.asp?ArticleId=3597
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Yes, considering the scale of power savings here. Over just one week of 4 hour-per-day operation, there is a 2kWHr difference between a 30W CFL and the 100W bulb it replaces, and I haven't even addressed cooling costs.
If you want further proof, look at just purchase costs. CFLs last several times longer, but cost more- yet they still last long enough that the consumer comes out ahead on replacement costs over the lifetime of the bulb.
The only problem I have yet to see addressed is that most CFLs don't work well in already-installed overhead recessed lighting; they don't like the higher temperatures, and the electronics bite the big one faster. Most people also like dimmable lights, and dimmable CFLs are much more expensive and harder to find.
Please help metamoderate.
If you RTFA, you'd see that they broke it down very nicely. The fact that these bulbs can last up to 10 years, saves WAY more energy and materials than the regular bulbs they replace. They even go into how many less Walmart trucks will be needed to haul lightbulbs around. Really, sometimes the articles do give important information!
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What's worse, can you imagine the utter chaos if everyone went out and bought one at the same time?
All those people... "out on the town" (as you hip people who go outside call it)... and the collective simultanious "ca-ching" of cash-registers everywhere.. wouldn't that be enough to shatter my windows and glasses?
Did the submitter of this article even consider: are there even enough of these lightbulbs for us all to get one? Aha! All well, at the very least it sounds like my parent has bought more than his share of lightbulbs. Consider mine bought, thank you sir! I will however petition a GM to replace all the torches in Ironforge with these CFLs; it sounds perfect for the upcoming expansion which slashdot just seems to love covering.
I haven't ever bought regular bulbs so I can't be certain, but I would highly doubt that they are anywhere near the 10x range you imply.
- are a bit dimmer than their stated wattage equivalent standard bulbs
I haven't really found this to be the case, and even if it is true for a given brand of bulb, getting a higher wattage bulb to compensate still leaves you with 70+% energy headroom.
- take a bit of time to warm up
The latest bulbs I've purchased turn on instantly and are at 80-85% brightness right away. The warmup period is short, but long enough to not be visible.
- don't have quite the same color temperature as standard bulbs
You can find them in any number of colors, though granted most of them suck. A bit of experimenting would be in order, though I'm wondering this: where on earth has Consumer Reports been?? Maybe the light and color-measurement tools I'm slowly building up for LEDs should be put to use building a basic site with solid numbers for each of the bazillions of bulbs out there.
- sometimes don't fit under (e.g.) ceiling fan light domes, especially the 100W equivalent models
As stated in the article (a fundamental premise of which is that all of these concerns are now effectively solved...), "100W" bulbs are now getting compact enough for straight replacement. It just depends on the brand.
However, the main beef I have with the assertions the article makes is that CFL bulbs last 10 years. Maybe this is a function of older designs, but we haven't found CFLs to effectively last any longer than standard incandescent. Either the electronics crap out early, or the bulb dims and radically changes color (purple is popular) fairly quickly. The latest round seems to be a lot better, but they still buzz well within my hearing range.
FWIW, I've personally settled on Commercial Electric bulbs from Home Depot. They turn on instantly to very near full brightness, are bright and have a very nice color temperature (neither too sickly yellow/green, nor glaring "cool" blue). So far so good as far as lifetime...
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The highest I've seen readily available replace 100-watt bulbs, which is close, but not quite what I want. The more important issue is that as I mentioned they're clear bulbs, not "soft white". I've yet to see a CF have the equivilent spectrum.
Even in the case of the 100-watt CF bulbs, they're using 27-watts. So let's assume 40-watts for a 150 replacement. This reduces my 3x150-watts=450 to 3x40=120. Let's assume I use the lights 8 hours a day (overstatement, but let's assume maximum). This means I save 2.6KWH each day, which at about 10 cents per KWH means a savings of just over 26 cents a day, or about $95/year. Not bad, but unless the light quality is the same, not exactly enough to motivate me to jump out and buy them either.
I have been very pleased with these CF bulbs.
- are 3x-10x the cost of an ordinary light bulb
At less than $2 each, the ROI is VERY fast on a CF bulb. Unless you're very short sighted it doesn't make financial sense to use a normal bulb.
- are a bit dimmer than their stated wattage equivalent standard bulbs
With off-the-shelf CF bulbs I agree. With the ones linked above, using my preferred full-spectrum 5100K bulb, my experience has been just the opposite. I love the way they brighten up my home.
- take a bit of time to warm up
I haven't noticed this a bit. Instant on. They may get brighter after 30 seconds, but I've never noticed it, so if these ones do you'd need scientific instrumentation to pick it up.
- don't have quite the same color temperature as standard bulbs
With the full spectrum CF's linked above, that is a good thing! The few normal bulbs I have left put off a nasty yellow light compared to the full spectrum CF's. Gloomy and depressing. I just placed a $100 order before 1000Bulbs.com gets slashdotted so I can replace the rest of my normal, yuck-yellow bulbs.
- sometimes don't fit under (e.g.) ceiling fan light domes, especially the 100W equivalent models
OK, ok, size does matter. But they come in many different sizes and with a little planning I've had 100% success. I even rewired my kitchen chandelier to use these CF bulbs instead of those stupid tiny expensive candle ones. Couldn't be happier.
As you can see I'm sold on good full-spectrum CF bulbs. I have no affiliation with 1000Bulbs.com, they just happened to be what I was looking for and have good prices, products, and service.
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It is estimated that between 6 and 16% of all electricity used in the USA on an annual bases is wasted because of this. (Source)
It is also estimated that:
(Source)
And that:
(Source) Also interesting: (Source)
Personally, I'm more than happy to take the small effort of actually walking to the TV (and other devices) to turn it on/off instead of leaving it on standby. And you're not just saving the enviroment either, being aware and watching devices which "leak electricity" in your house can easily save you $$$ (yes, 3 digit number) on a yearly basis!
To add a personal bit of evidence discovered while inspecting all electrical devices in the house with something similar to the Kill-A-Watt meter: it is shocking to discover that a lamp is using 40 Watt while in use, and still 25 Watt when switched turned ""off""! Bad, bad design with perhaps some cheapo, heat generating transformer.
Oh, and strategicly placed power strips with a single master switch to operate for example your TV/Stereo installation make all of this very simple.
Just take a look at the power consumption specs here
http://www.superbrightleds.com/led_prods.htm
The purchase price still sucks though.
That being said I am experimenting with a solar lighting system that charges a battery during the day and lights my entire house at night, for free (minus the cost of throwing the system together im my basement of course). My lighting needs will not burn any foreign oil or add to the global warming situation. Not only that but the bulbs will last longer than any of the equivalent CFL's that it would have taken to do the same job! You need to factor in the lifetime before compairing total costs.
We started using the CFL's earlier this year simply by replacing incandescents as they burned out. So far, it's been a good experience--not great, but good. I've noted:
1) Great in the kitchen. We have six older recessed "can" lights, and the CFL's have performed well. It would possibly be better to convert to recessed halogen lights, but that's a spendy proposition. The CFL's illuminate task areas just fine.
2) Good in the living room and other reading/chatting areas. Haven't had any problems reading, and the light seems warm enough that we don't look like we live in a bus station.
3) Really good in hallways/stair areas. There's an elderly relative around, and the CFL's have done a better job than incandescents at clearly illuminating the upstairs hallway, stairwell, etc. I think this is because of the "white" quality of the light.
4) Awful in the bathroom. For some reason--maybe the light paint, glossy tiles, or mirrors--they turn you into one of the undead when you look into the mirror early in the morning. Incandescents are better here.
A couple of drawbacks we've noticed are:
1) They can make an odd noise. This seems to be a prelude to one of them going bad.
2) We seem to get an occasional bad one. That hurts due to the price.
3) They do take a while to come on. Hasn't been a problem so far except in the upstairs hallway.
I believe (but am not sure) that we're saving on electricity. Our utility company railroaded through a 72 percent increase over the next three years, so it's hard to tell at this point.
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Actually there are dimmable CFLs. I have three of them in my kitchen over my table - they're some off-breed, but I see that Philips has recently started making name-brand dimmables as well.
I'm not going to be much help here, but let me share an anecdote:
My wife replaced all the bulbs in our McMansion with some kind of super-efficient full-spectrum bulbs. I didn't look at the credit card statement, so I don't really know how much it all cost, but I do know that we're using about 15% electricity each month and I can read and work at the computer longer without eye fatigue. Also, I look prettier in the mirrors and I can tell when I'm wearing one dark green and one dark blue sock (I didn't used to be able to do that).
I don't know what kind of magic these new bulbs posess, but I'm all for it.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Except that they don't last 10 years. I've been using CFLs for at least 5 years (back when they used to cost 10 or 15$ each). I've yet to have one last more than two years, and I'd say most don't last more than one.
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From Wiki:
Note that coal power plants are the single largest source of mercury emissions into the environment. According to the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), (when coal power is used) the mercury released from powering an incandescent bulb for five years exceeds the sum of the mercury released by powering a comparably luminous CFL for the same period and the mercury contained in the lamp.
Given that, and that the Incandescents use 4-5 times as much electricity as Flourescents, that meanst that switching to a Flourescent, even though it contains mercury, will actually reduce mercury emmisions, if you get power from coal.
So remember, if you want to reduce mercury, you should first work to eliminate coal power plants.
Fly me to the moon Let me sing among those stars Let me see what spring is like On jupiter and mars
I don't think that banning standby mode altogether is a good idea; if implemented correctly, the energy consumption should be negligible. I think the easiest way right now to reduce electricity consumption without significant negative side-effects would be manditory energy-use labeling on all electronic devices (including components like video cards and hard drives) sold. These labels should state the maximum energy use (in watts) of the device when in use, idle (on and ready for use, but not actually doing anything), and in standby mode.
A big problem right now is that consumers have no way of comparing products in terms of energy efficiency (save for water heaters and the like, which are already subject to such rules). When consumers aren't educated, bad products prevail.
In terms of "oil not burned"
should read: "countries not invaded"
As I mentioned in other threads, in Ontario, Canada the total usage of energy by homes is 22%. A study showed that changing all of the homes to be completely energy efficient (switching to new efficient appliances, using energy at night instead of daytime etc.) will bring a total saving of less than 10% of total production. There is no reason for homes to do anything more than they are doing already and there is no reason to throw away the old working stuff and pay for someone to spend more energy to produce new stuff.
It's not 'I can't make a difference' attittude, it is a perspective that is lacking here. Powerplants are not god-given, we create them to satisfy our demand and that is as simple as that.
We will have to build more powerplants because we are going into the future and not back into the 19th century. The building where I live covers all expenses from my maintenance fee. So for 480CAD/mo I get electricity, water, sewage, hot/cold air etc. It's included. Personally I only use it when I need it, but most people do not. They use it any time they want and in any quantities they desire. Their usage reflects on my monthly fees. But I am not going to fault those people for wanting to use all of that energy. I rather see this is a production issue than a usage issue. We are in the 21st century and we will need more capacity every day. The way to do this is not by trying to limit what people are using, but by creating new capacities.
We have to switch from coal/oil to nuclear/hydro and at some point to thermonuclear. Whatever it takes, we can use up all of the energy that is available and it is good. That's what we do. You want to be 'one' with the nature, it's your choice but it is not the choice of 99% of all other people
You can't handle the truth.
Personnally, every bulb in my NY apartment is CF, primarily because I am not charged for heat and electricity costs a ridiculous $0.20 per kW-hr
70% of statistics are made up.
I'll back you up on that - I have them go bad all the damn time, probably faster than regular bulbs in some cases. It's frustrating, seeing a big "Guarnteed to last 7 years" sticker on the box, and only getting 15 months out of them on average.
Sorry, but the "better" bulbs on that page tout dimming to 20% of full brightness, while the "best" tout dimming to 10% of full brightness.
:)
Neither of these is acceptable for "architectural" applications, where 2% is the accepted minimum standard.
While 20% or 10% certainly will save electricity, it's not dim enough to be perceived by humans as "dim". Ok, certainly not "seductively dim".
Full dimming is possible, but only with expensive ballasts and special wiring. Such systems are commonly used today in TV studio lighting.
The problem with retrofit CF dimmable bulbs is they basically have to put a complete dimmer in a throw-away bulb. There's only so much they can do at a throw-away price.
More than 10 years ago. I've been using CFLs since the early 90's.
But then, we Brits always were ahead of the yankees in lighting technology.
This sheet may prove helpful. In summary, CFLs prevent enough mercury emissions (from coal power) to offset their own mercury content. A typical CFL contains 4mg of mercury, over 100x less than a typical thermometer and almost 1000x less than the mercury switches frequently used in older thermostats.
CFL mercury use
According to this article in Wikipedia, an incandescent bulb actually releases more mercury into the environment than CF bulbs. This is because there is a minute amount of mercury in coal, which is released when it is burned for electricity. So the net result is less mercury released because less coal is burned.
Frankly, this is just a little too convenient. But it doesn't sound like a real problem anyway, since the Mercury was extracted from natural materials in the environment. If the rest of the Mercury article is correct, it seems like a bigger problem is what to do when we run out of the material, or when it becomes too expensive to extract from the minute sources that remain.
From Fortune a couple of weeks ago: "If each customer who visited Wal-Mart in a week bought one long-lasting compact fluorescent (CF) light bulb, the company estimates, that would reduce electric bills by $3 billion, conserve 50 billion tons of coal, and keep one billion incandescent light bulbs out of landfills over the life of the bulb."
Really? I've still got bulbs I purchased in around 1992 that are still working. The biggest problem I've had is that they dim as the years march on and get moved to places that require less light.
I have had some last less than a year, but I've found that those are related more to the fixture used than the bulb. Enclosed fixtures especially those with multiple bulbs will reduce the lifetime due to trapped heat. Any fixture where the bulb doesn't fit well and ends up under stress is also a bulb killer.
The biggest problem I have with compact fluorescents is the accumulation of dead bugs in ceiling fixtures. With incandescent bulbs the changes are frequent enough that bugs don't have time to accumulate.
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Agreed, and insightful point, but remember that the cold climate caveat only applies when the house is heated solely by electricity. As far as generating heat goes, gas/oil/geothermal are much more efficient in terms of money per joule heat than electricity. It also increases the total entropy of the universe less.
in conclusion, gas-supplied houses with electric hobs will hasten the inevitable heat death.
I am one of many. My idea is not unique, nor do I expect my voice alone to sway you. I speak in a chorus of opinion.
I used to be on the board of an HOA for a small 12-unit condominium. The HOA was owner run and we were looking to cut our expenses. One major expense was electricity. In part this was because all the common hallways were lit 24/7/365 by old incandescent flood lights. Replacing about 36 60Watt floodlights with 15Watt CF bulbs saved the HOA over $1200/year. Not to mention that we haven't had to replace a single CF since they were installed in summer 2003. This cost savings meant that we didn't need to raise HOA dues when other condos across town were doing just that. We recup'ed our investment in the bulbs in less than three months.
Several years ago I replaced every bulb I could in my house with CFL's, at a considerable expense. Most burned out within 3 months. The only situation where they lasted is when they were located in a position that was turned on 24X7.
I'm gonna wait awhile before I do that again..
I've tried to replace the conventional bulbs with CFLs where I could, but I've found that even when the other issues aren't a problem, they don't always last as long as they should.
They seem to not last long at all in enclosed fixtures or hung upside down. I've gone through 2 CFL recessed-lighting bulbs in my office (enough to just switch back). The 75-watt equivilent in the 50s era enclosed fixture on the stairwell died within a week. The 150-watt equivilents I use in our outdoor fixtures have died with 9-12 months (but the cheesy yellow bug light models have lasted through 3 winters...).
All-in-all I'd say I've maybe broken even cost-wise (savings vs. lamp purchases). The best luck has been, strangely, in ceiling fan applications (ugly as sin, but no dead bulbs) and as lampshade-type lamp replacements.
I've been using CFL's for a couple of years now.
The cost isn't a real issue. The fact that they are 3x-10x more expensive to buy is ameliorated by the fact that they last many times longer. That factor alone probably makes them a wash. When you add on the HUGE savings in energy, plus fact that you don't need to mess around with changing lightbulbs so often (saving you labor), then they're an easy win financially.
I don't believe they take any longer than regular light bulbs to warm up. If they do, it's never been an issue for me. There is a short flicker when you fire them up. So what?
I also don't believe they're dim compared to their watt rating. Even if that were true, you could easily solve that by using higher-watt-rated bulbs. The cost savings is still going to be huge.
As for color temperature: "real" lightbulbs have a _horrible_ color! People who are used to them just don't realize it. They put out a strong sickly-yellow hue. Try taking an indoor foto without a flash, and you'll see what I mean. With CFL, you have much more control over the light color. I believe you can choose to match incandescent, if you want. But more likely, you'll want to use one of the natural light colors. Yes, those bulbs may be more expensive (don't know for sure), but again, the cost savings will still be huge.
It's true that they sometimes don't fit, altho I've always been able to solve the problem -- by buying a better-shaped / smaller bulb.
One problem is that I haven't found a reasonable replacement for my spotlights. The CFL versions are way expensive. Maybe they also would pay for themselves, but it's not a slam dunk like it is for regular light bulbs...
I've discovered that quality matters a lot with CFLs, unlike regular light blubs where even the off brand guys do a reasonable job. For instance, the "America Something" brand that Wal*Mart sells is complete trash. Their colors are all over the map, they flicker, and they rarely last more than a couple of years. Half of the time the instant on stuff doesn't even work properly with them.
I have been very impressed with the Commercial Electric brand sold by Home Depot however. I installed a ton of them 5 years ago when I bought my house and thus far only one has failed. They aren't even all that expensive, you can sometimes find 6 packs of 15 watt bulbs for ~$10-$15 on sale. I redid my Mother-in-Laws place with a couple of those packs and saved her a bunch on her power bill because she has this annoying habit of never turning lights off. Plus, I was tired of changing half of her bulbs everytime we went over there.
I've also experimented with the GE brand and a few others, but that was back before isntant on was common and many of them take several seconds to light, which turned me off on them.
I read the internet for the articles.
Same here.
About 30% of the halogens in my living room - where they get ample use - have not been replaced in 10 years, whereas I don't have a single fluorescent (tube or compact) that hasn't been replaced three times in that period. True, anecdotes do not make data, but I've learned to trust my gut feel more than advertisements.
Flourescent (adj): smelling like ground wheat.
Real Americans aren't going to go for this. When we need light (which isn't that often 'cause we're usually out in the woods hunting), we just fire up the Hummer and aim its headlights into the window.
The mistake you make here is replacing like-for-like wattage bulbs. I went through my home and replaced the high usage bulbs with CFLs. And as the low usage ones die I replace them. But I replace them with CFLs of a higher equivalent strength. 60w incandescents get replaced with 75w equivalent CFLs, 75w are replaced with 100w. They only draw about 1/4 the juice of incandescents, so I still save big. But now I have more light in the same area, and the picket fence spectrum problem is reduced. Plus, when I can, I mix Cool White, Warm White and Daylight color temperatures. Looks odd, but only if you look at the fixtures and not the room.
I think it is worth the cost to my pocket and the Earth.
Thank you for consuming more than your share. The rest of us apprciate it.
Behold, this dreamer cometh. Come now, and let us slay him... and we shall see what will become of his dreams.
My central heating is gas powered, and more efficient than heating with electric bulbs, most of which are making heat near or above my head, where it soon floats to the ceiling, where it doesn't benefit me at all. I'm happy to transfer the heating load to the more efficient, better heating equipment during the winter, and let my lights provide more light than heat during the summer.
/usr/games/fortune
> 90% of the energy output of a incandescant bulb is heat. Think about how an easy bake oven works.
The A/C costs of COOLING that 90% are another huge energy gain.
--Michael
Want to see every step I took to start my company? http://www.rowdylabs.com/blogs/pitchtothegods
Do these have the same problems as most florescent bulbs? I can not stand having the lights on in my office as they give me headaches. I haven't adopted the bulbs for this reason.
Yeah, I feel that way too. I got those big ass 75 watt incandesent bulbs in all my shit too. I used to give a ratts ass about the environment too but realized that I turn 40 real soon. By the time the environment changes so much that I care I'll be dead.
Now excuse me while I go out an price a big ass SUV and I need to pick up some old fashon CFC for my A/C.
Supporting World Peace Through Nuclear Pacification
I haven't found that at all. In fact, I started using CFLs a few years ago for hard-to-reach enclosed ceiling fixtures for the sole reason that I wouldn't need to replace them as often. I haven't replaced one yet, though since they've been coming down in price I've been using them to replace all my incandescent lights.
Momentarily, the need for the construction of new light will no longer exist.
We have about half a dozen in our 20-bulb house (I counted - it's a small house).
I read some, "They whine and buzz" - might have been older versions.
"They're dark" - ditto.
"They have mercury in them" - true, but as TreeHugger.com put it:
"Ironically, compact fluorescent bulbs are responsible for less mercury contamination than the incandescent bulbs they replaced, even though incandescents don't contain any mercury. The highest source of mercury in America's air and water results from the burning of fossil fuels, such as coal, at utilities that supply electricity. Since a compact fluorescent bulb uses 75 percent less energy than an incandescent bulb, and lasts at least six times longer, it is responsible for far less mercury pollution in the long run. A coal-burning power plant will emit four times more mercury to produce the electricity for an incandescent bulb than for a compact fluorescent."
But before you take all the wonderful things I've said about them at face value, there is something I learned the hard way: check the color of light the bulb produces.
From the Wikipedia,
* "Warm white" (2,700 K) provides a light extremely similar to that of an incandescent bulb, somewhat yellow in appearance;
* "Soft white" (3,500 K) bulbs produce a yellowish-white light;
* "Cool white" (4,100 K) bulbs emit more of a pure white tone; and
* "Daylight" (6,400 K) is slightly bluish-white.
I accidentally bought "Daylight" bulbs for the bathroom. It made the room a psychotic blue-ish tint (I imagined Jack was going to start chopping through the bathroom door with an axe - "Here's Johnny"). Warm white seems like the color to get. Unfortunately, I bought an 8-pack, but fine for utility lighting, etc.
Cree just announced an LED with an efficiency of 131 luments per watt (compared to incandescent light bulbs at 10 to 20 lumens per watt range, and compact fluorescent lamps range from 50 to 60 lumens per watt).
So they are coming. Then again, Cree seems to have a history of "science by press release", where they announce these amazing specs, then never bring the product to market.
If you live under the domain of a more enlightened electric utility company (or, if you prefer, a more regulated utility), there may be subsidized bulbs or rebates available for your CFL lamp and fixture needs. http://www.efi.org/ offers limited quantities at subsidized prices, primarily in the New England area. Even if you're not covered by the subsidy, EFI offers retail pricing and honors manufacturers' warrantees -- if your 10,000 hour CFL goes out a few years too soon, it will be replaced with minimal hassle.
Brand can be king and you get what you pay for. If you've had a bad experience with a particular brand but like the concept of CFLs, try another. There are some really shitty CFL manufacturers, to be sure. If you don't like the light it gives off, try a different color temperature (higher is whiter/"bluer", 2700k is "standard," about as close as they get to an incandescent temp) and wattage.
Mercury content is fairly negligible and is offset by reduction in coal-burning plant pollution. They can be recycled with many local recycling programs. Magnetic ballasts in CFL fixtures have been replaced by more efficient electronic ballasts that cut down on intereference, hum, and slow start times.
In addition to CFL subsidies, rebates are offered on Energy Star appliances. Check http://www.energystar.gov/ if you're in the market and take the time to do the math in terms of overall price and energy payback.
Call your utilities and see what else they might have to offer. There are low-interest loan programs out there for more efficient heating/cooling equipment. Replace your windows. Get an energy audit. Take advantage of federal tax credits. Learn how to regulate solar heat gain. There are any number of ways to cut costs and bring energy demand down regardless, if CFLs aren't your bag.
None of these effects is pronounced, but the ripple spreads out. And that's just one of the things you have to accept with the quest to reduce oil-dependence: it will be thousands and thousands of little things that win the war. A few E85 SUVs here, a few electric cars there, some scooters and motorcycles for the cool kids. CFLs all over the place. Industry starts taking conservation seriously and revamps their processes (you can find hundreds of success stories of manufacturers bringing their power usage way down while simultaneously making their entire operation faster and more efficient). A smarter chemical industry. Old houses being replaced by better houses. Nothing can solve the problem in and of itself, but it all adds up.
But I later learned there is real scientific evidence that full-spectrum light will put you in a better mood
There are full spectrum CFLs, check here: TrueSun.com
FalconShould there be a Law?
Flourescents have a small amount of mercury in them.
l amp#Environmental_issues
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compact_fluorescent_
LED lights last up to 11 yrs with continuous use.
And use 1/30th the power of a regular light bulb, vs. 1/4 with a CFL.
http://www.thinkgeek.com/clearance/7aa8/
Only thing really holding it back right now is price and the fact they
wouldnt sell many to repeat customers with an 11 year always on lifespan, lol.
The ones featured here on thinkgeek don't put off quite as much light,
but with 2 lights vs. one you can get there.
The price is the only real thing hindering it, but if you consider long term
energy savings, its awesome.
google "32 trillion offshore needs IRS attention"
How many light bulbs does it take to change the world? No wait, that's not right...
The problem is people use these little efficient doodads to feel good about doing something green. Then they go out and buy a power-sucking plasma TV.
Electrical use is way up since the 80's. Possibly because we all have tonnes more electronics bits to plug in and nearly everyone has a PC which adds a certain minimum for the hours its on. If you had a few lamps burning around the house which added up to the energy consumption of most desktop PCs you'd notice it right away and wonder why it's necessary. Alas, we sit at our keyboards and type merrily away (there's that batsard, ackthpt again, oi if only I had the mod points to bury him.) oblivious to the power consumption of our tin box full of CPU, DDR-RAM, HD, Whizzo Video Card De-Luxe, etc. Quite possibly we even have a reading lamp going beside us in the evening (I don't know about you, but at my age I get a headache looking at a glowing screen in the dark.) Plus there's all these little black plastic cubes and rectangles to run all manner of gizmo, which all add up.
On another thought. I've got these wicked little LED flashlights which run for 130 hours on a battery the size of an aspirin. When will I see these in my house, rather than a fluorescent lamp?
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
True, but that is only if every household only replaced one bulb. If every household replaced two or three (and major retailers like Target/Wal-Mart sell them in three-packs for under ten bucks) then the savings would be even greater.
This attitude in general is why energy conservation and alternative energy sources have such a hard time catching on; people act as though if it doesn't solve the entire energy problem then it isn't worth bothering with. You go ahead and wait for cold fusion. Personally I'd rather replace a few incandescents with flourescents, drive a Civic instead of an F-150, and vote for politicians that will actually fund alternative energy sources (such as wind).
That, and turn the light off when I'm not in the room and turn off the computer when it isn't really doing anything. Drive a few miles per hour slower. Cut the temp back by a degree or two in the winter. No one of these changes really makes that much difference, but if you could convince a majority of people to enact a majority of these changes it could actually make a significant difference.
Because after all, 10% is just 10 times 1%, right?
Has anybody found bulb-sized full-spectrum CFLs for closer to $5 a pop?
Does it make you happy you're so strange?
We on Slashdot have a fetish with saving the enviroment but don't have a problem building our own 30 KW petabyte TIVO servers?
... :):):)
Yes, I'm definitely going to replace all those evil incandescents with enviroment-friendly CFLs while building a second rail line to my own coal-powered electrical plant just so I can watch Captain Planet whenever I like
Everyone pays taxes, but not everyone pays them in equal amounts. If poor people pay little in taxes, but have high energy bills because they can't afford the up-front costs of CFLs, then that segment of the population will only benefit.
Ah, so you're talking about a wealth-transfer program. Because I'm in a high tax bracket I'll help folks further down pay for their light bulbs. Should I also help them pay for their food and clothes? Maybe they should just move in? Ha ha, no thanks. Having to pay for your own stuff is the best possible incentive to stay in school, get a job, save a little, stick to a sensible budget -- i.e. to grow up. Who am I to deny the benefit of learning life's most important lessons to my fellow man?
In fact, most every tax bracket would benefit. There are long-term cost savings for the consumer, and those savings should more than counterbalance the taxes for the vast majority of taxpayers.
Sounds like doubletalk to me. Joe Poorboy, who would otherwise buy a $1 incandescent, buys a $3 swirlie instead because he gets $2 back from the government. Joe also enjoys a $20 reduction in his electricity costs over the life of the bulb (which you'd think would be enough to get him to buy the bulb directly, but I guess we're assuming poor people are irrational here). Nice for Joe. Richie Rich, investment banker, being no fool, also buys a $3 swirlie, and also enjoys a $20 reduction in his electricity cost. But he also needs to pay more taxes to cover the subsidy to Joe. How much? Hmm, well, the program is pointless unless it induces lots of people to switch bulbs, and of course by definition there are lots more poor people than rich, so Rich clearly must get whacked for a lot more than the price of one extra swirlie for Joe. Say he needs to cover the subsidy on 10 bulbs. That's $20 extra in taxes. So how does Rich see any net gain from the program?
Maybe you're thinking Rich and everyone would benefit from reduced general electricity costs, leading to less CO2 emissions, a cleaner environment, et cetera. Could be. But if that's your goal, how about attacking it directly, instead of in this weird indirect way? Tax the use of fossil fuels in power plants. Zone lots of land so it can't be used for power plants. Pass laws mandating scrubbers on power plant stacks. The problem with clever, indirect approaches to a problem is they have unexpected side effects. Just for example, you are aware, I assume, that the swirlies (unlike incandescents) contain 5-20 mg of mercury, an exceedingly nasty environmental toxin. What if the people you encourage to buy swirlies happen to be exactly the type that don't bother to recycle the bulbs? Ugh, now you've reduced electricity use but increase the amount of mercury in landfills. Maybe it works out on balance, but maybe it doesn't. That's the problem with complex mechanisms. The side effects are by definition hard to know before you begin.
The size of the bureaucracy has very little to do with the amount of money being spent.
Well, that depends, doesn't it? If the purpose of your bureaucracy is to build a fusion reactor, then maybe not. But if the purpose of your bureaucracy is to sort out which citizens get a $2/bulb benefit, and which others must pay for it, then I'd say, yeah, roughly speaking the size of the bureaucracy would scale with the number of people eligible for the benefit. I suspect the size of the Social Security Administration does indeed scale with the number of people applying for benefits, receiving benefits, dying and needing to have their benefits canceled, et cetera.
Subsidies early on could jump-start demand for CFLs, increasing production capacity, improving manufacturing techniques, and enabling them to compete more successfully in the market when the subsidies are eventually removed.
Come on. We're not talking about a market where no private party will enter because of the risks. Or some cottage industry where people are han
Be careful. There is no official scientific definition for the phrase "full spectrum," so marketers are free to use this term how they choose. If you're interested, I came across a website with graphs of spectral distribution for a number of light sources.
I love and use them too, but there are problems. 1) can't use them on with dimmers 2) some sockets can not use them because of the fat width right above the metal screw part
1. There are three-way compact flourescents. Actually, it's really a combined one, but then that's what a three-way bulb is, two filaments (say 300 is a 200 watt plus a 100 watt, each switch position gets you 100 watt (200 is off), 200 watt (100 is off), 300 watt (both on)) or in this case two tubes stuck together.
I don't recommend using compact flourescents in ceiling fans, even though they exist (usually fat short bulbs), as the vibration cuts down dramatically on their lifespans.
2. There are a lot more shapes and sizes of bulbs now. Go to Home Depot - you'd be amazed.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
GE understands that it's smarter to make money selling what people want to buy than trying to force people to buy what they don't want. Now if someone could tell the RIAA/MPAA and other Luddite organizations...
Vista:XPSP2::ME:98SE
They have mercury in them, which actually makes them suck much worse if they do break. That said, they save a ton of energy, and while they don't work well (read: at all) with dimmers, good ones are intensely bright. I have them everypace in my house that they fit (maybe 50% of possible locations).
Most CFLs are not designed to be used with dimmer switches. Special adaptors are available for larger bulbs and General Electric make Soft White dimmables which are available in the US but not the EU. LEDs might be the best bet if this issue affects you...
FalconShould there be a Law?
"I used to do the CFL bulb in every socket thing. But I later learned there is real scientific evidence that full-spectrum light will put you in a better mood. Since then, I replaced all bulbs in my house with GE Reveal incandesent bulbs."
Oh help.
A certain component of sunlight in the near-UV region has been shown to affect seasonal depression. There are receptors in the top of your head that when near-uv hits it are stimulated to synthesize serotonin. That's whay you feel better when you go outside into the blue room and get some sunlight and why many people get depressed in mid winter (which is also why we have "march break").
You are NOT going to create this near-UV from an incandescent bulb, period. What you're getting with the GE bulb is a more bluish, less yellowish light. It has zero effect on your mood.
Vita-Lite (tm) is a full spectrum tube that does have this important UV component. Flourescent tubes work by creating UV when an arc excites mercury vapour. This UV then zaps the phosphour coating on the inside of the tube which converts it to visable light and the makup of the phosphour is what determines what kind of visible light the tube emits.
GE Chroma 50 and GE Chroma 75 are a (much!) cheaper replacement for Vita-Lite full spectrum tubes. The GE tubes will be marked "C50" or "C75" respectivly and are marketing these days in stores as "super sunshine" or something like that. Philips Colortone 50 is also equivalent. I think Osram/Sylvania makes one too but the name escapes me. These are the "big three" in fluorescent tube makers are make tubes for other companies to resell. Some of the Asian companies that make CFL's do such a poor job there was a recall on them as they were a fire hazard and I've watched ones not subject to the recall burst into flame. Stick with the "big three". They work.
Vita-lite makes one in a CFL. Not cheap (like all vita-lite products). The other GE/Philips/Sylvaina ones are available as 4' fluorescents pretty easily in stores. They do make them in other (smaller) sizes but they're special order, hard to come by and not cheap - 90% of all tubes are 4' and there's economy of scale.
Need Mercedes parts ?
Now wait a fuckin minute man, who the hell do you th-- *gasp*
Lord Apathy! My liege! I ... I had no idea, I... please, my apologies... [scurries away]
If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
I'm glad to see a few people recommending Home Depot's CFL's here. I just bought a few of those to try out, a few weeks ago. For the last couple years, I've really tried to like CFL's and use them around my house. I have a small place built in the 1950's that has a small fuse panel still (no breaker box) and the electrical service is one of the smaller capacities the electric company puts in homes. I used to have a lot of problems of blowing fuses if too many things were turned on at the same time and the microwave or a vacuum cleaner was started up.
... and others just started coming on intermittently or suddenly died after just under a year of occasional use. All of them I've used came on instantly when working right - but the light doesn't feel "white" enough until you leave them on for a few minutes.
Since going to CFL's in the bedrooms and basement, I've not blown a single fuse. So that alone has made them worthwhile for me.
That said though, I wasn't impressed with the CFL's I bought, to date. I think I have a few GE's and some Sylvanias, and like someone else said - the electronics seem to go bad first on them. They're very intolerant of heat build-up, so they died in just 1-2 months when I experimented with putting them in enclosed glass fixtures in my kitchen
I haven't really felt like they're saving me anything on my electric bill, but I suppose they do.
My CFLs are on instantly and the suplier said they only go to 90-95% instandly, but I can't tell. But the real reason that I love them is that I hate changing bulbs.
As I recall from my high school science courses (and which is supported by anecdotal experience...and wikipedia), about 95% of the energy output of an incandescent bulb is heat, and only 5% is light.
Ironic as it may be for a Canadian such as myself to complain about air conditioning costs, but if you have a bunch of these going on in hour house, they're putting out a noticable amount of heat. If on top of this you are air conditioning your house (presumably in the summer), then you're paying to cool the air that your light is heating.
CFLs (BTW, CFL in Canada stands for Canadian Football League...please co-opt this acronym) use less energy to produce the same amount of light, so I can only assume that the energy difference is in heat savings. Add to this the savings from not having to re-cool that air, and you are then saving double in the summer.
Quite a clever investment!
- RG>
Hey pal, this isn't a pleasantforest, so don't waste my time with pleasantries!
GE, too, has launched a green business initiative: ecomagination, an effort to make environmentally sustainable technologies an ever-larger part of GE's business. Swirls fit well, despite the inevitable cannibalization. "The real issue is, if we don't do it, someone else will," says GE's ecomagination vice president, Lorraine Bolsinger, of Wal-Mart's effort to push CFLs. "It's old thinking to imagine that you can hold on to a business model and outsmart the consumer. You can't."
All of my home lighting is LED using the luxeon 3 and 5 watt models. I use about 1/20th the energy that I used when I was using CFs. Granted, I had to build nearly all the fixtures and powersupplies myself, but the 5 watt units only cost about 7 $US and put out light equal to an 80 watt tungsten. They cost far less and use way less energy that CFs, I don't know why they haven't caught on
Are the LED lights you have any good for whole room lighting? Last I heard the LED light good for whole room lighting are expensive. A few months ago I saw one for more than $50. That's way too much for me, I'd pay $10 but not $50.
FalconShould there be a Law?
I find it intersting that many people are complaining about the colour temperature of CFLs. I don't know if it is the case in other countries, but here in Australia, we have the choice of at least three, sold as 'warm white', 'white' and 'daylight'. Personally, I much prefer the slightly blue tone of daylight, find white acceptable, and 'warm white' is more a horrid, dull orange.
Can you get a range of colour temperatures in other countries?
Prediction for end of Universe #42: Fencepost error in Quantum_bogosort.cpp
"All you have to do is be fragile and grateful. So stay the underdog." Chuck Palahniuk, Choke
If you look at something small like a one watt flashlight, there are no 1 watt CF bulbs, so LEDs are best.
CF's would make a lousy flashlight bulb for the simple reason they are also not used in spotlights. They are not a point source light that can be focused into a beam. A 1 watt LED makes a great flashlight. I have one.
The truth shall set you free!
Be careful. There is no official scientific definition for the phrase "full spectrum," so marketers are free to use this term how they choose.
No kidding. I had to take some bulbs back because they weren't emitting nearly enough gamma radiation for my liking.
Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
I have an 18 watt Philips CFL in the kitchen that has been used daily since 18th August 1995. It cost me AUD$25 IIRC. I always write the date on the base with a felt tipped pen. Anyway, the important thing is the reason this lamp has lasted so long is that the filaments in the tube are preheated before the tube strikes. There is about a 0.5 second delay from switch-on to appearance of light. I have bought a number of cheap $2 lamps and without exception they come on instantly and in the process gradually rip the cathode coating off the still-cold filaments and deposit it on the inside walls of the tube, leading to the characteristic blackening of the tube at each end. Finally, as less and less of the emissive material remains, a current crowding effect occurs leading to localised overheating and failing of the filament. This occurs in about 18 months. A place I worked at a while back was developing a 12 volt dc fluorescent tube ballast and we found that if we preheated the filaments we could get >300,000 starts (we gave up the test after 6 weeks) but if we started from virtually cold filament it would only go several thousand starts and then fail. If designers of cheapo CFLs would only make them start properly their typical 18 month liftetime would be so much longer.
I have all CF bulbs in my house (2200 sq ft, 6 people) (there are few bulbs outside that I can't use CFs for), and I have wi-fi, and no problems. The beauty is that they save the environment, save me money, and save me time by lasting much longer.
I replaced all the incandescents as they went out. Long before I was done replacing them, I was already saving enough money on the electricity to pay for all the CF bulbs.
There are a very wide variety of bulbs. I find that the local Ace has better selection than any place else, including Home Depot, but I also like some bulbs that I can only get elsewhere, like the ones from IKEA. One time last year, I got a killer deal at Walgreens. Sometimes I get deals on them at Costco as well. I do wish they would fit in the outdoor flood light sockets I have.
Serious question - was telling my wife about these, and she mentioned how they still hum (which I'm sensitive to), they cause/worsen her migraines, and that some people (not us) are sensitive to flicker.
Are these better now?
"Sometimes a woman is a kind of religion, she can save your soul & set you free from all your sins" - Bad Examples
Since they are excellent UV emitters, they are not a good choice for a person who has lupus.
In climates where the ground freezes, you won't find many houses on slabs.
If the ground doesn't freeze where you live, I bet heat isn't a huge cost for you.
Do me a favor--repeat your test, but this time see if it affects AM radio reception. Choose a weak station in the high end of the AM band (around 1400 or so) and tell us if the bulb makes the radio buzz.
I'd start replacing bulbs in my home tomorrow if they didn't cause RFI...
I used to wonder about this too. From a previous discussion on here, I learnt that CRT teleisions keep the tube warm when on standby, which means it takes less time for the screen to become visible when turned on than from a cold start. Keeping the tube warm in this manner means that standby mode sucks up a lot more power than you'd expect. It's also a not-uncommon cause of fires, according to my friend whose father is a fireman.
A previous /. story, but probably not the one I was thinking of...
I say we take-off and slashdot the site from orbit... it's the only way to be sure
Lemme get this straight: You are refusing to do your bit to help the environment because it negatively impacts your ability to listen to the high fidelity auditory experience that is AM radio?
I hate printers.
Not only AM radio. It also affects amateur radio (ham radio, which uses AM, otherwise known as Double Side Band (DSB), Single Side Band (SSB), FM and digital), and thousands of industrial/commercial radio links, like SCADA links for controlling oil and gas pipelines. But CFLs, while noisy, aren't the biggest offender. Those cheap little wall warts (DC power supplies) and older PC switching power supplies are notorious and prodigious producers of RF noise.
And you know what was the worst offender in my house? A Linksys wireless router! Second worse was a Linksys 5-port switch. Killed my ham radio reception from 40 meters up to 10 meters. Kinda makes running a software defined radio (SDR) on a PC an oxymoron...
"A little misunderstanding? Galileo and the Pope had a little misunderstanding."
I question how efficient it would be though. Do LEDs suck up a lot of power when you have 16 to 32 used in a handheld flashlight?
I think most bicycle lights tend to have three LED lights, more or less. Maybe six. Imagine taking three or four 32-LED flashlights (128 LEDs in all) and putting them on the front of one's bike.
I would imagine it would be useful to design one's hallway with LEDs at floor level to give a little bit of light to see. These would be motion activated and photo sensitive to turn on.