IBM Announces Wii Chips In Nintendo Hands

simoniker writes "IBM has announced that the 'Broadway' CPUs created for the Nintendo Wii have been shipping from the company's East Fishkill, N.Y., fabrication facility since earlier this year. Nintendo, it would seem, is ramping up for the launch of their next-gen console in a month or two." Joystiq and Kotaku have the news as well. From the article: "Nintendo has also confirmed their reception of IBM's chip: 'The first chips are in our possession,' said Genyo Takeda, Senior Managing Director/General Manager, Integrated Research & Development Division, Nintendo Co., Ltd. 'Today's milestone marks the final stage of our drive to reach both core and nontraditional gamers with an inviting, inclusive and remarkable gaming experience.'"

Comments

Digitizers?

[headkase]

I'm wondering whether or not the wimote will work with my setup. I have a tv card with a built-in mpeg decoder. So when I'm pointing the thing at my lcd monitor the raster information has been lost - no more timing signal at 60hz. Am I confused or does the wimote work in such a setup?

Re:Digitizers?

[Anonymous Coward]

The Wii will work on any kind of TV, because the TV has nothing to do with the controller. There is a small (about the size of a couple pencils glued together) sensor bar you place near the TV. It doesn't matter where you put it, but that general area is where you'll be pointing the remote. So put it near the TV, and it seems like the distance you are from the TV affects the sensitivity of the controller. The closer you are to the bar, the higher the sensitivity.

Re:Digitizers?

[headkase]

Preview! Preview! Preview!
decoder = encoder

Re:Digitizers?

[MadUndergrad]

You seem to be talking about some sort of lightgun setup. My understanding is that the Wii comes with a sensor that you place near your tv (or monitor) that triangulates the position and orientation of the wii, plus of course the accelerometer and gyroscope in the offhand attachment. So I shouldn't think you would have any problems.

Re:Digitizers?

[Bombcar]

The Wiimote doesn't work like the light guns of the past; it uses the two bars you sometimes see in the pictures, one goes beneath the screen and one goes on the side.

See this.

Re:Digitizers?

[Anonymous Coward]

It works by determining its position relative to the sensor bar. For all the Wii cares, you could play a game and have the TV behind you.

Re:Digitizers?

[The MAZZTer]

The sibling posts say it all... but keep in mind the Wii is supposed to have a direct monitor connection port. So I'd think it would support LCDs. :)

Re:Digitizers?

[Dance_Dance_Karnov]

just 1 bar. It contains 2 sets of 4 IR leds.

Re:Digitizers?

[headkase]

Thanks.

Re:Digitizers?

[fm6]

You're assuming he knows the difference between an en and a de.

Re:Digitizers?

[DeanCubed]

Actually, I think that has been scrapped. It was an idea early in the development of the Revolution, but since it was brought up there has been no mention of it at all. Many sites such as IGN have had good looks at the Wii and have reported not seeing any output port for computer monitors. Actually, I think that it was rumoured to have the port before Nintendo had finalized the controller for the Wii. With the way the Wii-mote now works, it would be difficult to play most games on a PC monitor anyway.

Re:Digitizers?

[KDR_11k]

That depends on whether it's a digital TV card.

Re:Digitizers?

[Anonymous Coward]

I know my lightguns for my PS2 do not work on my Samsung DLP TV. How am I supposed to save the president? I guess I'm not that bad of a dude.

Re:Digitizers?

[mad_minstrel]

Actually - the "sidebar" in the picture is the Wii...

Re:Digitizers?

[headkase]

My first computer was a Radio Shack TRS-80. I didn't have any storage mediums (not even tape) so I had to write something for it to do each time I turned it on. Sometimes I would press the reset button really fast to occasionaly cause a bad initialization. I really do remember the days of going uphill both ways to the computer shop. When I upgraded to a Commodore 128 (which I used almost exclusively in 64 mode) I unfortunately purchased an MSD brand hard drive instead of a 1541 drive which almost every piece of software depended on for copy protection purposes. So I had to reverse engineer my software to remove the copy protection before I could play it. One of the last protections on the 1541 was called V-Max (for Verify Maximum) and as a cracker I loved it because it was a third party product - once I cracked it it was the same protection for all titles.
Been there done that. :p

Re:Digitizers?

[QuantumFTL]

According to the Wikipedia article, the Wiimote uses a 1 megapixel imaging sensor to detect (what is most likely) IR light from the "sensor bar" that's placed at the bottom of your screen. To see how that works, try pointing a remote control at a digital camera or a camcorder - if you press buttons the remote, it will light up brilliantly, yet not be a distraction to humans.

To be honest, I'm not sure how they plan to get full positioning information from a horizontal bar, as I don't think any of their other sensors are absolute, which could lead to serious drift problems. They likely use Kalman filtering or some such to minimize the error, but I really do want to know how they stabilize this.

I suppose it would be theoretically possible for the Wiimote to also lock on to the display (the frequency would not matter, just the overall size and shape) and use that to reduce uncertainty, but for now we can only speculate on the inner workings. I for one can't wait to get my hands on one!

Re:Digitizers?

[fithmo]

As long as it works better than the sensors I had to strap to the television for the Power Glove. I bought it new, I still have it, it still works, and I still don't know how to use it. Worst use of allowance ever.

Re:Digitizers?

[stesch]

But using something like iTheatre (portable video glasses) could be a bit difficult, am I right?

Re:Digitizers?

[wootest]

Not really, just prop the sensor bar up about the distance away that the glasses are supposed to feel like. (If they are supposed to feel like a 70" TV at 4 meters away, just put it 4 meters away, and so on.)

Re:Digitizers?

[cttforsale]

POST OF THE DAY. Where are my mod points?

Re:Digitizers?

[geminidomino]

You might have other problems playing the Wii (or any video game) through that then. The extra encoding time might cause you some short but crucial amount of lag between the console output and the image appearing on the monitor.

I ran into this some years back when I had a similar setup.

Re:Digitizers?

[thatguywhoiam]

1541 was called V-Max

!!!...

Thanks. Thanks for that.

I wasn enjoying my coffee until I read the word 'v-max' and was immediately filled with white hot rage, and bitter memories of yesteryear's StarForce.

Re:Digitizers?

[flooey]

You're assuming he knows the difference between an en and a de.

He can't tell the difference between English and German?

Re:Digitizers?

[springbox]

No, I use a video capture card as well because the picture is nicer and it means I don't need to own a TV. I've had many systems hooked up to it and I can tell you that it's more than adequate for playing video games on. The cards that sit on the PCI bus are the best. Just don't expect to have a great experience with the external digitizers that communicate over USB or Firewire.

Re:Digitizers?

[funfail]

Please note that he and he are the same he.

Re:Digitizers?

[funfail]

How did you copy the purchased games into your hard disk without a 1541?

Re:Digitizers?

[Cadallin]

I really don't see the problem, you've got accelerometers, and you've got a fixed location sensor bar, which emits light that you can detect multiple light sources from, and you can measure with a fairly decent angular resolution. The machine knows how long the bar is, so by using two lights on opposite sides of the bar, the machine can easily calculate distance from the bar, and the position of the bar on the sensor tells you up/down, left/right aiming. Seems to me the wii ought to be able to calculate position and orientation of the remote in 3D space fairly easily and accurately. The main source of error is when it can't see the bar on the sensor, then it can rely on integrating accelorometer data, but you won't be pointing away for long, so the errors won't matter too much.

Re:Digitizers?

[headkase]

Debugging cartridge. Action Replay something or other. You had to load a file with Load "*",8,1 to load it into it's proper memory address. I would patch the binary so that instead of executing immediately on load it would have a machine language jump command poining to itself in memory. This would leave the computer in an infinite loop. So I'd load the patched binary as usual and wait for it to freeze. Then I would press the debug button on my Action Replay and I would be in a machine language debugger. I'd fix the couple bytes in memory where the infinite jump command was and in the case of V-Max I would just have to load a file into memory and once unprotected in memory save the file back out unprotected using a binary save function. As V-Max was a third party product the developers of content provided masters to V-Max's company that had absolutely no protection on it. V-Max would wrap the files in a custom load routine that patched the vectors of the built in load function to protect the content. V-Max is impervious to any form of disk copy including all nibblers and hardware copiers. But by simply stripping the V-Max wrapper you end up with completely unprotected files that use the standard kernal load vector. Took an hour to strip a disk. Back when it was still legal to do it.
Oh. No hard disks back then, all floppys.

Re:Digitizers?

[headkase]

I would borrow a friends 1541 on the weekends to strip protection and during the week I'd clean up what I had ripped and play stuff that was complete.

Summary is misleading

[NickHydroxide]

The summary of the article is slightly misleading. FTA: The chips have "actually been shipping in smaller amounts for a number of weeks before the debut of this official announcement." "A number of weeks in small amounts" != "Shipping since earlier this year"

Re:Summary is misleading

[cibyr]

"Earlier this year" is vague. A few weeks ago is earlier this year...

Re:Summary is misleading

[Hellad]

The Joystiq article is a slightly different story that states it has shipped since July. Umm, RT(other?)FA

Re:Summary is misleading

[DigitalRaptor]

Technically 10 seconds ago is "earlier this year".

Re:Summary is misleading

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, but "a number of weeks," referring obviously to the number of weeks preceding the present, was earlier this year... and today is earlier this year than will tomorrow be.

Re:Summary is misleading

[Anonymous Coward]

I second that.

400 days ago was earlier this year too, but the year is 2005.

Depends on what this "this" is.

I am drunk ^_^

Re:Summary is misleading

[PeelBoy]

So what was the problem again?

From now on article summarys should be 10 paragrahs long in order to cover everything and make everybody happy?

Re:Summary is misleading

[DigitalRaptor]

Read the parent post I was replying to. I'm defending the original submission, they said earlier this year, and they were correct and accurate. :)

Re:Summary is misleading

[Anonymous Coward]

Fortune cookie:

"You have a bright future as a lawyer, public relations officer, political speechwriter, or CEO."

Re:Summary is misleading

[soft_guy]

Technically 10 seconds ago is "earlier this year".

Not if it is Jan 1st at 12:00:05!!

Re:Summary is misleading

[Anonymous Coward]

Technically you need a life.

Re:Summary is misleading

[recursiv]

It's not.

Queue the East Fishkill jokes here

[CrazyJim1]

So we had to decide. Do we want video games or fish?

Re:Queue the East Fishkill jokes here

[roesti]

Do we want video games or fish?

Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day.
Give a man The Legend of Zelda: The Ocarina Of Time and he will forget to eat for a day while his on-screen avatar goes fishing.

Re:Queue the East Fishkill jokes here

[novus ordo]

It's no joke that the IC industry is dirty. Just ask the people who live there.

Re:Queue the East Fishkill jokes here

[Ant P.]

Good thing you showed me that.

Do any other companies do this? I think I might just spend that £150 on a graphics card instead.

Wii launch date

[DeanCubed]

Well, most analysts have predicted that the Wii would launch either mid-November (the 15th being thrown around a lot), November 1st, or sometime around Canadian Thanksgiving weekend. With this news that production has been going strong for almost two months, I think the earlier date is much more likely. If Nintendo can take advantage of a month's head start on the actual holiday season, it pretty much guarantees them second place worldwide behind the 360 until at least the end of summer 2007, and likely well into 2008. If the PS3 can't ship their 6 million before Nintendo ships theirs, it doesn't matter about demand. Plus, whichever console sees the most sales between November 2006 and March 2007 will undoubtedly get the most developer support, which will lead to an even stronger holiday season 2007. By January 1st 2008, the "winner" of this generation will have basically been decided. At that point, as we've seen with generations past, whoever has the most games wins.

Re:Wii launch date

[Heir Of The Mess]

Just releasing a product doesn't guarantee anything. It has to live up to expectations or else the first few adopters will trash it on the net and general media and then demand will dry up. Same goes for the PS3.

It's interesting how you assume that XBOX 360 will be number 1 and that the Wii won't get past it. I know many people who would have never bought a console who are definately going to be buying a Wii. Even my girlfriend has been bugging me every week asking me when we can go buy one. This could be Nintendo's finest hour.

Re:Wii launch date

[uvajed_ekil]

Hmm. This argument is sound and very well-reasoned, but I don't quite buy it. It works if you consider the two consoles and their projected markets to be identical. But with the PS3 being a more capable machine aimed more at hardcore gamers, and the Wii being a machine of lesser abilities hoping to cash in on casual and young gamers, you have to take more into account than release date. Even if SOny moves the PS3 relases date back to 2008, developers will still support it, and people will still buy it.

Nintendo may "win" in the short run, but I would bet money that the PS3 will soon generate more game sales, in terms of units sold and units sold per console. Sure, some of what would be the PS3 market might buy a Wii, but most of them are not afraid to fork over big bills so they'll buy a PS3 when it comes out anyway. If anything, the suggested scenario will only play to SOny's favor for the 2007 holiday season: he PS3 will be THE release of the year since it will be better (not adjusting for the crazy price, obviously), and it will be new. When it comes time to think about another generation of consoles, I bet we'll look back at the PS3 as the most popular of its generation, though it will certainly not be as dominant as was the PS2.

Or, maybe build quality and reliability will bite it in the ass and I'll look like a damn fool. I just can't count the PS3 out because of a late release, since there's still tons of buzz about it and it looks good (though expensive).

DISCLAIMER: I own a PS2 but am not likely to buy any of the newer consoles within the next two years, as I am not a big gamer and favor the PC as a gaming platform. The price for the Xbox 360 and PS3 (projected) are way too high for me. I will NOT shell out $60 for a game, period. (At least not until inflation drives my salary up a bit and I find a game that can do my laundry.)

Re:Wii launch date

[DeanCubed]

Well, I was assuming it wouldn't get past it before 2008. There's a huge head start, and may developers are choosing the 360 over the PS3 when deciding on what platform to put their game. Many of those games won't make it to Wii based on the Wii's audience, and it's hardware capabilities. And those 360 exclusives should keep it ahead for the next couple of years. If, however, the Wii has more games than the 360 by 2008, then there's a good chance that the Wii will overtake the 360 by the end of the generation in 2009/2010.

Re:Wii launch date

[shigelojoe]

Even my girlfriend has been bugging me every week asking me when we can go buy one.

I wish *my* girlfriend looked forward to playing with my Wii with such enthusiasm.

Re:Wii launch date

[Anonymous Coward]

But the PS2 market leadership emanates from its "casual" consumers. What non-hardcore gamer will pay 500 for a console?

Re:Wii launch date

[Anonymous Coward]

Find a game that can do your laundry? Get a girlfriend.

I leave stuff clothes and things on the floor, piled here and there, and my girlfriend just cleans it up out of habit. It's the most amazing thing: leave dirty clothes on floor and she'll come along and pick them up without even yelling at me. She doesn't even realize she's doing this.

Asked her if she wanted a maid outfit. That was a mistake.

Re:Wii launch date

[Ewan]

Quite simply, Nintendo won't manufacture enough Wiis before the end of next year to catch the 360, this is the same issue Sony are going to have.

Microsoft plan to have shipped 15 million 360s by June 2007, Nintendo and Sony are both planning selling around 6 million by that same point. If you take a conservative estimate of 360 production for the final 6 months of 2007, around 5 million units, then both Sony and Nintendo need to make 14 million of their consoles each in 6 months and sell every one to be ahead of Microsoft at the end of 2007. These are the kinds of figures that the total dominant Playstation 2 took years to achieve, it's extremely unlikely either the Playstation 3 or Nintendo Wii will sell anything like as many units in their first year.

Ewan

Re:Wii launch date

[KDR_11k]

I think the hardcore gamers are the ones that care the least about the PS3 because the hardcore gamers are well informed and have been complaining about graphics taking precedence over new ideas in gameplay for quite some time now. In fact I'd wager the PS3 aims more at the high-end hardware lover market, the kind that really wants HD. I wouldn't say those are hardcore gamers, a hardcore gamer is perfectly content playing a 10 year old 2d game over a modern 3d game if it offers superior gameplay. Of course noone cares about those hardcore gamers as they are too few and too hard to please.

Another market that cares about the PS3 is the large number of average and casual gamers that liked the PS2 and expect the PS3 to perform similarily, sometimes while harboring misconceptions like believing that the exclusive titles for the PS2 are somehow bound to Sony in a way that prevents their sequels from being on other consoles.

The Wii is hoping to sway that sector of the market (as is the XBox 360, of course) in addition to gaining the "non-gamer", i.e. the people that don't like the games currently made by the big players in the industry and would like a game that's controlled with a mouse and one button instead.

I think that in the end all three consoles try to compete for the same markets, when one covers a market the others don't the others quickly try to adapt and cover it as well. Maybe with the exception of Nintendo as they are always quite slow to react to their competitors' actions.

Re:Wii launch date

[Anonymous Coward]

and the Wii being a machine of lesser abilities hoping to cash in on casual and young gamers, you have to take more into account than release date. Even if SOny moves the PS3 relases date back to 2008, developers will still support it, and people will still buy it.

First off, I don't think the Wii is hoping to cash in on Young Gamers but that is besides the point; the Nintendo DS was a machine of lesser abilities hoping to cash in on casual and young gamers and it is leading (and extending its lead) in every market:

North America:
http://www.vgcharts.org/usaconscomps.php?name1=DS& name2=PSP&type=2

Japan:
http://www.vgcharts.org/japconscomps.php?name1=DS& name2=PSP&type=2

(sorry, accurate European numbers not avaiable)

Nintendo may "win" in the short run, but I would bet money that the PS3 will soon generate more game sales, in terms of units sold and units sold per console.

Now, the DS has captured the casual and non-gamer market in Japan (and is starting to capture the same market in North America) and look how software sales have gone:

North America:
http://www.vgcharts.org/usaconscomps.php?name1=DS& name2=PSP&type=3

Japan:
http://www.vgcharts.org/japconscomps.php?name1=DS& name2=PSP&type=3

Sure, some of what would be the PS3 market might buy a Wii, but most of them are not afraid to fork over big bills so they'll buy a PS3 when it comes out anyway

The thing that really bothers me about people who assume that the PS3 will be successful regardless, and Nintendo's strategy to broaden the gaming market is meaningless, is that they don't understand why the Playstation brand was so successful up to this point. The Playstation and PS2 catered to the mainstream market which is predominantely casual and non-gamers; when you consider that there is probably about 10 Million hard-core gamers (depends on your definition of hard-core) and you'd have to be pretty hard-core to spend more than about $200 (or maybe $300) on a console then it becomes clear that Sony is ignoring about 90% of the people they have sold their system to in the past.

the PS3 will be THE release of the year since it will be better (not adjusting for the crazy price, obviously), and it will be new. When it comes time to think about another generation of consoles, I bet we'll look back at the PS3 as the most popular of its generation ...

Much like the XBox and Gamecube were the release of the year in 2001, and both carried their more powerful hardware onto outselling the PS2 worldwide.

The truth is that the reasons why Nintendo is currently not the market leader in the home console market (they're the total leader, but that's not important) is that durring the end of the SNES generation and leading into the N64 generation they made several mistakes and Sony Capatalized on those mistakes; an upstart captured the market by producing a machine of lesser abilities hoping to cash in on casual market. As far as I can see, Sony has made some massive mistakes, including producing a $500/$600 system, alienating third party developers by screwing up the launch of the PS3 (not to mention the massive price, huge development costs, and Sony's insistence that games have to be of PS3 quality [in other words, those crappy looking games that made up 50% of the PS2's library are now not allowed to publish for the PS3]), and plain old hubris.

The way I see it is that the plague that has infe

Re:Wii launch date

[masklinn]

Microsoft plan to have shipped 15 million 360s by June 2007, Nintendo and Sony are both planning selling around 6 million by that same point

Wrong, they plan to sell 6 million by March 2007, definitely not June.

Re:Wii launch date

[Andrew Kismet]

You're assuming first outta the gate wins. Compare Dreamcast to PS2.

Re:Wii launch date

[Headcase88]

The Dreamcast was a special case. Sega abandoned not one, not two, but three consoles... not a good way to build consumer goodwill.

Normally, being first out of the gate is no small advantage. Companies make games because the 360 already has a fanbase, and the fanbase grows because companies are making games for it. It's a vicious cycle of momentum, one that I think will keep the 360 on top for a while.

For the record the Wii is shaping up to be my favourite, and I'll probably buy a 360 a couple years down the road for games the Wii might not have (but hopefully will). That will mirror this gen, when I bought a GC at launch and a PS2 a couple years afterwards for rhythm games.

Re:Wii launch date

[Anonymous Coward]

I think you're making the mistake of grouping all hardcore gamers. Which I'm prone to doing to (being from generation X) as generations before had never played video games. But now my generation is getting up there in years and we've already gotten a generation beyond ours. "Hardcore" gamers are now in all demegraphics. The older generation of hardcore gamer wants anything fun. Doesn't matter if it's donkey kong or tekken 768bit. There is also a "bling" type hardcore gamer who always seems to forget about the entertainment factor and always wants the most awsome graphics possible. There is a lot of crossover at well, so I'm making a bit of generalizations also. It is apparent that the Xbox and PS3 are aiming at the uber-graphics generation. Somewhere along the line with all the glitz and high prices the gaming industry forgot about the old school gamers.

Re:Wii launch date

[Ewan]

I'm assuming first to 15 million has a pretty good chance, did the Dreamcast sell that many in it's entire life? I had one, but I didn't know anyone else with one.

I dont think the 360 will be totally dominant, but at this point I don't see the Playstation 3 outselling the 360 by enough to first overtake it and then make a significant lead in the market much before Microsoft after ready to launch their next generation.

After all, give that Microsoft pushed the 360 way ahead of when the general public were expecting a replacement for the Xbox and Playstation, what's to stop them doing the same again at the end of 2008?

Re:Wii launch date

[CastrTroy]

I know that there's a lot of people who want to run out and buy the Wii. However, there's a lot of people who think it's just too weird. Your GF can't wait to get one. My GF on the other hand, thinks it's kind of stupid. She had enough trouble getting used to analog sticks, and still has tons of trouble playing anything that's in 3D. No Mario Sunshine for her. Too disorienting. She'd rather have sidescrollers and overhead games like bomberman (The original, Or multiplayer on Bomberman Generations). As much as there is a following, there's a lot of people who won't buy it simply because it's weird, and don't want to have to relearn another controller. However, if it's a easy to use as they have been saying, and can let people try it out, then I think the Wii will be very successful. The biggest trick will be getting people to try it out. Most of the demo units from other consoles (XBox, PS2, GC, and XBox 360) that are in stores are usually turned off, as retailers don't want teenagers using their store as a free arcade.

Re:Wii launch date

[timeOday]

One risk to Wii that people here don't seem very concerned about is that it isn't very fast! As if simply being released at a certain date places a console within this "generation" of consoles. Well, I'm not so sure. A low-cost console with a catalog of low-cost games is a great thing... that's why I recently bought a PS2! I can buy any of thousands of games for $10-$15. For those who want better hardware, there's the XBox 360. With a year head-start over the Wii, will the price difference still be that great? The Wii's controller may be cool, but what's to stop somebody making that for the XBox 360 or even the PS2? Guitar Hero has a novel interface for existing consoles, and was successful.

Re:Wii launch date

[tomhudson]

"Asked her if she wanted a maid outfit. That was a mistake."

Top 10 responses ...

1. "That's "french maid outfit" to you, mister!"
2. "No problem hon, I can wear it while throwing out the rest of your pr0n collection."
3. "Why don't you take a nice nap before supper. Most people don't die in their sleep ... maybe you'll get lucky."
4. You know, my last boyfriend said the same thing. Too bad about those poisonous mushrooms ..."
5. "That reminds me ... extra starch next time I do your underwear ... you need it!"
6. "Great! I can wear it instead of my dominatrix' outfit next time you're out drinking with your friends and I need some company ..."
7. "If you thought the couch was lonely, the garage is worse!"
8. "You're out of socks ... I put them in the "other" washing machine, pulled the chain, and they just disappeared. Now let me go wash your favourite lucky shirt."
9. "You know that negligee you bought me for my last birthday. Your boss insists I model it for him ... again ... next time you're ot of town on business."
10. "Go f*** yourself, because I sure won't!"

Re:Wii launch date

[Sarisar]

My GF had 2 PS2s. DVD appears to have died in both of them. First it stops playing PS2 games, then PS1 games. Now with the Sony CD fiasco she despises them and won't buy a PS2 (or anything else Sony).

The 360 is too 'mature' for her son, so basically if she gets anything it will be the Wii. TBH I'm looking forward to that too!

If other people are agreement then the PS3 will tank big time.

Re:Wii launch date

[Anonymous Coward]

That's because she plays with mine all the time.

Re:Wii launch date

[dogbowl]

"Many of those games won't make it to Wii based on the Wii's audience, and it's hardware capabilities"

Did we hear this two years ago when the DS made its debut?

Re:Wii launch date

[sehryan]

The Wii has already "won" this round, because Nintendo has its "opponents" telling their customers to spend money on it (while buying their product, of course). If you were in charge of a gaming company, which would you rather have: The first console that 50% of gamers buy, or the second console that 100% of gamers buy?

Re:Wii launch date

[Dan Ost]

a hardcore gamer is perfectly content playing a 10 year old 2d game over a modern 3d game if it offers superior gameplay.

And all the REAL hardcore gamers are still playing Nethack or Angband...

No, that's not really true. Most of the hardcore gamers I know complain loudly about
the lack of good game play and the price of the new consoles, but each one of them
eventually ponies up to buy the latest and the greatest.

Re:Wii launch date

[somersault]

Is her house really dusty or something? Admittedly our PS1's drive died after a few years, and my siblings don't use their PS2 much anymore, but it makes sense that the drive will accumulate dust etc over time, and the drive in a console is needed every time you want to play a different game/DVD. I'm not saying there isn't a reliability problem there, but it seems strange to blame Sony for an optical drive giving up the ghost. I did consider not buying a PS3 after the music CD thing, but it's a separate branch of Sony. Most likely (well, maybe not in reality, but in my head) the music rootkit was instilled by some American or European branch of Sony rather than the Japanese market, where all the good console hardware is made :)

I think I'll buy a PS3 even just to play my PS1 games tbh, tho the Wii's controller is very cool, and as long as they make decent games for it I may get one. I got a DS, great idea having a touchscreen, as it means that you can play FPSs (my favourite genre) on the move, though most of the games I have bought are the sort of thing that you complete in 2 days and then wonder why you spent £30 on it..

Re:Wii launch date

[Sarisar]

She is a clean freak so she'd beat you for suggesting dust :P

It's probably her son banging it to be honest, but I thought Sony actually got sued in a class action lawsuit over dodgy drives.

Re:Wii launch date

[Sarisar]

That should have said sued AND LOST. Here it is

Of course they don't admit fault bla bla bla...

Re:Wii launch date

[somersault]

Hehe.. well fair enough.. and the fact that they're having a shortage of drives right now really won't help them to go for quality components eh :/

Re:Wii launch date

[Breakfast Pants]

Guitar Hero can also only be used on... guitar games. This is not exactly a console saving market. Let me address "what's to stop somebody making that for the XBox 360 or even the PS2": Nintendo's patent?

Re:Wii launch date

[rolfwind]

Maybe it's because she understood it to be a wee mote, not like a wiimote.

Re:Wii launch date

[Sarisar]

hmm... do I buy a PS3 and join the class action suit in 2008 then? ;)

Re:Wii launch date

[somersault]

I think I might sue them for being racist in prioritising Japan and the US over Europe for the upcoming launch :(

Re:Wii launch date

[poot_rootbeer]

Even if Sony moves the PS3 relases date back to 2008, developers will still support it, and people will still buy it.

I wouldn't count on that, and apparently Wall Street doesn't either.

When Sony announced their bad news earlier this week, it wasn't just their stock price that fell. Game publishers that have supported Sony, like Electronic Arts and THQ, saw their prices fall along with it. Between the risk to their own bottom lines, and the market limitations that come along with releasing a console more expensive than and later than the competition, I would expect to see developer support fall off exponentially the longer Sony delays.

Re:Wii launch date

[Anonymous Coward]

One risk to Wii that people here don't seem very concerned about is that it isn't very fast!

The Wii is as powerful and cutting edge as the priorities set by Nintendo could allow; don't believe the FUD that it is only Gamecube hardware running at ~2x the clockspeed.

When Nintendo started developing the Wii (back in 2001, soon after the Gamecube was launched) they wanted an affordable system which was as powerful as could be and still fit into a (remarkably) tiny form factor; when you look at the internals of the Wii (which I'm assuming anandtech will have available soon after the systems launch) you'll discover that the ammount of space available for the motherboard is only a couple of times the volume of what you would get if you're producing a PDA or portable gaming system. IBM and ATI were given the task of drastically improving the performance of the CPU and GPU will reducing the power consumption and heat generated; even the Laptop CPUs and moble GPUs of the time used too much power to be put into this form factor.

Everyone in IBM (and the former ArtX employees at ATI) are very proud of the hardware they have produced for Nintendo; a dramatically more poweful system (trust me, when you see games that didn't spend 12-18 months being developed on Gamecube's you'll understand), that Nintendo will never have to lose money on to sell at their desired price, that fits into one of the smallest form factors ever attempted for a console. The XBox 360 and PS3 are more powerful systems, but if you were to put either their CPU or GPU into the Wii case you could run a game for about 60 seconds before your system started on fire.

Re:Wii launch date

[poot_rootbeer]

One risk to Wii that people here don't seem very concerned about is that it isn't very fast!

Correct. I'm not very concerned that the Wii has a far lower clock rate than its competitors.

As if simply being released at a certain date places a console within this "generation" of consoles.

Isn't that kind of the definition of a "generation"? A collection of contemporary items?

The Wii's controller may be cool, but what's to stop somebody making that for the XBox 360 or even the PS2?

Patents. Nintendo didn't spend the last few years investing heavily in controller R&D just to give the fruits of their labor away to the competition for free. No other console will be able to have a Wii-style controller without paying Nintendo for the privilege.

Re:Wii launch date

[zerocommazero]

The Wii's controller may be cool, but what's to stop somebody making that for the XBox 360 or even the PS2?

Well for one, the competitors don't have this functionality natively which means every Wii owner will have it off the bat. If M$ or Sony releases a similar device now, they will have to sell it as a peripheral which means people will have to specifically buy it separately. This means not everyone will get it. Ultimately, a developer will be less inclined to make games with that functionality because there is a smaller audience. Most games probably would end up only having that functionality as a token so that those without the device can still play it. This would work against the device's sale as most people don't want to buy a peripheral with limited use nor buy games that don't take full effect of that ability.

Nintendo was extremely smart to keep the Wiimote under wraps until the other developers were concreted in their own product's development.

Re:Wii launch date

[Anonymous Coward]

In this case, I'd rather be IBM.

Re:Wii launch date

[Andrew Kismet]

I agree with you here - your initial post I replied to seemed to indicate that first move was an unstoppable advantage. Also, manufacturing power and numbers sold aren't always the greatest indicators. Try profit and the picture becomes a bleak one for Microsoft - I'm not sure how long it took them, or if they ever did break even on the original XBox.

Back to the topic of the original newspost, it's good to see that Nintendo have their manufacturing under control already. Hopefully no shortages, artificial or otherwise at launch.

Re:Wii launch date

[Anonymous Coward]

If you -actually- knew what you were talking about, you would mention the day of the week on which all recent Nintendo hardware has launched on: Sunday.

Just saying.

Re:Wii launch date

[Lucractius]

This is where you point to the back catalouge of vintage 2d games and the way a sideways held pad is quite reminicient of the NES pad layout for classic 2d gaming :)

And that is how you get your GF to like the Wii :)

Broadway

[dualmoo]

Here are the only details we know about the Broadway processor : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadway_(microproces sor)

Re:Broadway

[mh101]

Nice article. I'll save everyone the trouble and post a summary here:

"All we know is that it's made by IBM, and is in the G5/970 family."

I guess it's better than having a completely empty, or non-existant, page.

Re:Broadway

[cttforsale]

More info here: http://www.transmit.com/

Re:Broadway

[squiggleslash]

Worth pointing out that the "part of the G5 family" stuff is based upon Hannibal hearing a rumour that it was offered as a laptop equivalent of the G5. This, by itself, makes no sense whatsoever. It's a relatively recent chip, the main maker of PowerPC laptops is Apple, they wouldn't have been interested in a 729MHz G5 to replace their ~1.5GHz G4s, and if IBM did have a ~1.5GHz Broadway low-powered enough to be usable in a laptop, what the hell is Nintendo doing using a version that runs at half the speed?

Until now, all rumours have suggested it's simply a faster, better made, Gekko (which itself is derived from the G3, which is probably why the page you linked to redirects to the G3.) I think setting ones-self up for it being unbelievably more than that is probably setting ones-self up for disappointment.

The "It runs at 7xxMHz" and "It was offered as a laptop G5" "facts" clash. One of them has to be false. The 7xxMHz thing has been consistant and is the kind of thing developers would know about. Plus, Hannibal's reasoning for it being a major disappointment ("That it would make the Wii just an overclocked gamecube with a DVD player") is ridiculous. You might just as well call the Commodore 64 an overclocked KIM-I. Or the Nintendo DS an overclocked GBA.

Re:Broadway

[steveo777]

Indeed. Also, didn't most of the G5 achatecture processors start around 1.2-1.4Ghz when they started popping them into Macs? It wouldn't make a lot of sense for a proc using the 90nm SOI process to run at such a low speed? Two reasons I can think of that Nintendo would make such a call.

One- Heat: Nintendo wants quiet or silent machines. I think we can all agree that fan noise in the XBoxes are pretty loud. The Game Cube has two fans but is very quite, and produces little heat. Which has been emphasised in TFA by the IBM rep or whomever stating that Broadway runs with 20% less power load. Which means less power needed, which means less heat than the GC.

Two- Price: Nintendo has never sold a console at a loss. Perhaps they just need a processor that is better and just works for cheap. But this doensn't make a lot of sense to me. I don't think Apple allows much for selling individual processors, so I figure a 2.2Ghz P4 at $47 on pricewatch may be equivilant to a 1.4Ghz G5 (if I'm wrong, I'm wrong). But I'm sure that Nintendo can get a lot more bang for their buck givin the probable ease of creation/production of Broadway than a 800Mhz processor. Remember, they haven't released any official specs yet, so nobody realy knows.

Wii, PS3, Xbox360

[j235]

The console wars are over before they even start. IBM wins.

Re:Wii, PS3, Xbox360

[Anonymous Coward]

That is a damn good point.

Re:Wii, PS3, Xbox360

[Danga]

I agree, I considered a 360 but then didn't get one due to the fact I was too busy with other stuff. I am very glad I waited.

For one, I am a HUGE Zelda fan, so being able to play Twilight Princess will be AWESOME. Another big selling point for me is the virtual console since I can access NES, SNES, N64 (as well as other consoles of the past) games. I love retro gaming so having the ability to access games from all those older consoles kicks ass. I wish it could play HD-DVD's or Blu-Ray DVD's but since that war still has to be fought I do not mind waiting. Another thing I like is it has the Opera web browser for cruising the internet.

What more could a nerd ask for?

Re:Wii, PS3, Xbox360

[ZakuSage]

Do you not understand the point he's trying to make? IBM is manufacturing the CPUs for 360, Wii, and PS3, thereby making a killing irregardless of who "wins".

Re:Wii, PS3, Xbox360

[toby1]

hehehe good call :) it's all about the units ...

Re:Wii, PS3, Xbox360

[Danga]

I overlooked that in my excitement. My bad. I still think the Wii will be the winner this time around, especially for the price it is supposed to be released at as well as the other points I made.

Re:Wii, PS3, Xbox360

[j235]

I understand, it's hard not to be excited about the Wii. :D
Metroid Prime 3 had me sold.

But yes, no matter how the systems sell, IBM will be raking in the cash from the Xenon and Broadway cores.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but IIRC, Sony is manufacturing the Cells for PS3s, but IBM holds a plethora of patents on that architecture and manufacturing process.

Re:Wii, PS3, Xbox360

[Anonymous Coward]

IBM always win. $ 93 billions revenue on 2004 :p

Anyway, does that mean IBM is the only company in the world capable of mass-manufacturing "customized" (id, non-PC) high performance CPUs? I wonder what this means for the next gaming generation, which I believe cell-phones will play a major role, will unfold?

Re:Wii, PS3, Xbox360

[Knetzar]

From what I read Toshiba will be manufacturing them for Sony and IBM will manufactuing them for IBM

Re:Wii, PS3, Xbox360

[wildstoo]

Sorry. Grammar-nazi compulsion has taken hold... can't... resist...

"irregardless" isn't a word. Possible valid alternatives are "regardless" or "irrespective".

Again, sorry. Back under my rock I crawl.

Re:Wii, PS3, Xbox360

[wildstoo]

Sorry, scratch that. Apparently it's been becoming a word since 1912.

It still sucks. Stupid American English. ;)

Re:Wii, PS3, Xbox360

[speculatrix]

AMD also win - they own ATI, who make video chipsets.

Re:Wii, PS3, Xbox360

[masklinn]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but IIRC, Sony is manufacturing the Cells for PS3s, but IBM holds a plethora of patents on that architecture and manufacturing process.

IBM probably gets a cut of every single manufactured Cell CPU. This is IBM we're talking about, not Mother Theresa, they played a big part designing the chip, you can bet they won't let Sony get away with just letting them sell Cells by their own

Re:Wii, PS3, Xbox360

[masklinn]

I'm not sure, Intel could probably do it too but they'd have much less incensive (sp?) to, IBM on the other hand has it's whole PPC line that it can evolve in multiple directions at once, and doesn't sell CPUs to apple anymore.

Re:Wii, PS3, Xbox360

[Scudsucker]

Sorry, scratch that. Apparently it's been becoming a word since 1912. It still sucks. Stupid American English. ;)

Ain't that a bitch?

Re:Wii, PS3, Xbox360

[Yvan256]

This is IBM we're talking about, not Mother Theresa, they played a big part designing the chip, you can bet they won't let Sony get away with just letting them sell Cells by their own.

She sells Sony Cells by the seashore.

Re:Wii, PS3, Xbox360

[mgblst]

Agreed. I like blue, but purple is a close second.

See what I did there, started the post with the word agreed, but then went of talking about something completely different. Why should I waste time reading the article or the posts, just pick one at random and say what I came to say.

Good one, cheeseball!

Re:Wii, PS3, Xbox360

[archen]

Simpsons quote:

Dr. Nick: Inflammable means flammable? What a country!

Re:Wii, PS3, Xbox360

[rk]

Don't apologize! I'm right there with you.

Heil Grammar!

Re:Wii, PS3, Xbox360

[Danga]

At first I thought he was talking about how the console wars are over and the Wii would win since I didn't catch that he meant IBM was the one to win since they are making the CPU's for all 3 new consoles. So I talked about how in my mind the console wars were over and instead of getting a 360 or PS3 I would get a Wii.

What was the point of your post? It added nothing to the discussion and your attempt at looking smart than me failed. Basically, you are a moron.

Good day.

Re:Wii, PS3, Xbox360

[Mattintosh]

I'm an American. I speak American English (en-us).

"Irregardless" is not a word unless you're a salesman or a TV newscaster. In other words, you have to be a clueless, yet respected, twit.

It's a similar situation as with the word "impact" and it's variations. It has two direct meanings:
1) to hit
2) a painful tooth condition
It also is used in the phrase "have an impact on", where it becomes a synonym of "affect". This does NOT mean that it is always applicable as a synonym of "affect".

Acceptable uses:
- "My wisdom teeth are impacted."
- "The gas prices have an impact on the economy."
- "The meteor impacted the ground."

Incorrect uses (and yes, I have heard these on the evening news):
- "The gas prices impacted the economy."
- "Gas prices are impactful on the economy." (This one is just awful.)

Fellow grammar nazis, unite!

Re:Wii, PS3, Xbox360

[mgblst]

I disagree. I am clearly smarter than you, since I can read, and you merely come across as a Nintendo fanboy - not a bad thing in itself, but certainly nothing to brag about, and not really adding anything to the conversation.

The point of my post was to make fun of you, in a humourous way, and to waste a little time at work. I achieved all of this, so thanks.

And you are still a cheeseball!

Re:Wii, PS3, Xbox360

[Breakfast Pants]

How do you figure? They bought ATI, after ATI already made the deals, so the estimated value of those deals was already factored into the price of ATI. Unless you know something the market doesn't (if you did you would be out making money instead of blabbing on slashdot), you are just wildly speculating.

Re:Wii, PS3, Xbox360

[Danga]

This is a discussion about Nintendo, so talking about how I am excited about the Wii may not add a whole lot of value to the conversation but at least it was relevant.

The point of my post was to make fun of you, in a humourous way, and to waste a little time at work. I achieved all of this, so thanks.

Wow, you are awesome, I wish I could be as cool as you are and attempt to make fun of people unsuccesfully. I can tell how hilarious your comment was by how fast it got modded up and labeled funny... or not.

Have a good time kicking your dog and beating your wife to waste time once you get home from work at McDonalds!

Re:Wii, PS3, Xbox360

[raxx7]

No.
Actually, it's very unlikely Microsoft, Sony or Nintendo depend on IBM for manufacturing. Most likely, all the three companies can take their manufacturing somewhere else if they choose to.
That was the BIG mistake Microsoft did with Xbox: it depended on Intel and nVidia to manufacture the CPU and GPU. This kept the Xbox expensive to manufacture.

What IBM has going for them is that, like Intel and AMD, they have the know-how to design high-performance CPUs and they have their own fabs.
And, unlike Intel and AMD, they're willing to design a CPU that can be manufactured by someone else (or manufacture a CPU designed by someone else for that matter).

Re:Wii, PS3, Xbox360

[Anonymous Coward]

Remember that fact the next time some Apple nut goes on about how "bad" it was for IBM to lose Apple as a customer. Pfft.

Re:Wii, PS3, Xbox360

[zerocommazero]

Can both you of guys just take it outside?!

Re:Wii, PS3, Xbox360

[Blakey Rat]

It's quicker to just type "wooosh!" when a joke goes over someone's head.

Re:Wii, PS3, Xbox360

[mtdisher]

I wonder if any of them (nintendo, sony, MS) has given any thought to how compatible the various processors are, if one of them could figure out good emulation/translation we could have some cross platform gaming (ie. xbox games on Wii or PS3). Just a thought since they all descend from the Power architecture.

Re:Wii, PS3, Xbox360

[speculatrix]

Yes, the price of ATI included the win of the business, but games consoles are VERY speculative businesses - the product may fall flat or may be huge, so the value of ATI would have included this; however, given the delay in the PS2, it means the xbox360 and wii which contain ATI will get a market lead and so increase the sales.

Re:Wii, PS3, Xbox360

[Wesley Felter]

Cell can be manufactured in IBM or Sony/Toshiba fabs.
The Xbox 360 processor is manufactured by IBM and Chartered.
Broadway is manufactured only by IBM (AFAIK).

BTW, nVidia doesn't fab anything; I think it's all at TSMC. But you're sort of right; if MS owned the chip designs for Xbox they could have consolidated it onto one chip.

Re:Wii, PS3, Xbox360

[Wesley Felter]

You could probably easily emulate Wii on the others, but emulating PS3 on 360 or vice versa would be a nightmare due to the different architectures.

Re:Wii, PS3, Xbox360

[Breakfast Pants]

PS2 wasn't delayed as I recall, there was just a shortage of them for a few months during the Christmas shopping season.

Re:Wii, PS3, Xbox360

[speculatrix]

d'oh, I meant PS3

Wiiiiiii

[DittoBox]

Wiiiiii!! I can't wiiiiiiiiit!!!

Re:Wiiiiiii

[Bob of Dole]

You can't wheat?

It's ironic isn't it...

[admactanium]

that twenty years ago people said macintoshes were toy computers and ibm's were serious business machines. now macs use some stonkin intel processors and ibm processors are behind every next generation game console.

Re:It's ironic isn't it...

[Anonymous Coward]

It's like raaaa-eee-aaain on your wedding day.

Re:It's ironic isn't it...

[DrXym]

Except the IBM processors are pretty stonking too. The Cell is basically a 8-core processor - one general purpose CPU and 7 GPU-like cores for handling large amounts of data. Supposedly it is much, much faster than any Intel chip at floating point calculations. This may be why Sony worked with folding@home to produce a PS3 client - to demonstrate that the thing could kick seven shades of shit out of any standard PC when it comes to intensive number crunching. I expect IBM also have their eyes on the thing for all manner of applications, both large and small.

Re:It's ironic isn't it...

[mgblst]

Yes, the world has changed in 20 years. Welcome to reality mac guy.

We in the PC world have seen for a long time games pushing CPU technology (with GPUs).

Ibm still make serious business machines (IBM big iron), see the other post today about IBM making the fastest mainframe with POWER chips.

Re:It's ironic isn't it...

[Anonymous Coward]

Isn't it ironic? Don'tcha think? A little toooo ironic, and yeah, I really do think.

Re:It's ironic isn't it...

[zlogic]

Two years ago IBM actually made CPUs for Apple's toy computers.

Re:It's ironic isn't it...

[MikeBabcock]

And statistically speaking, nobody uses Apple computers.

I mean, like, a few do, I guess. I've heard of these Apple users, but in real percentages, they aren't that significant of a market force.

No, I don't think Macs are toys, but the perception did matter in terms of sales, and it may for Nintendo too. Of course, Nintendo is trying to sell a toy, so that shouldn't hurt them much.

Re:It's ironic isn't it...

[Anonymous Coward]

And close to 20 years ago Sega was Nintendo's biggest rival. Who would have thought back then that a Sonic the Hedgehog game would be on a Nintendo system without someone sprite-hacking an existing game?

Re:It's ironic isn't it...

[Anonymous Coward]

The 8086 was an Intel processor. The toy processor you are referring to is the Motorola 68000 that's probably in your phone right now.

Interested in performance.

[cjkeeme]

I'm interested to see the performance from "Broadway" opposed to "Gekko" (Gamecube). The chip is suppose to perform much better and be 20% more power efficient.

Re:Interested in performance.

[beesquee]

Wii CPU: 729Mhz GPU: 243Mhz RAM: 91Mb Gamecube CPU: 485Mhz GPU: 165Mhz RAM: 40Mb Is anyone worried about the Wii's tech specs? I know Mhz and Mb isn't everything but this is just pitful. Yes I'm sure it will have cool games and a novel control scheme and be cheap but it's seems like they didn't try on the graphics front at all. Graphics aren't everything but I have become used to beautifully rendered worlds immersive worlds and effects and it will be hard for most consumers to purchase a 'next generation' console with visuals from the pong era.

Re:Interested in performance.

[Z80a]

and you really belive on this numbers Matt spitted? :3
this is basically the same Cube numbers * 1.5,like a Cube 1.5 joke

Re:Interested in performance.

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm just a regular consumer. If the CPU is 729Mhz how many giga-funs is that equivalent to?

Re:Interested in performance.

[Anonymous Coward]

it will be hard for most consumers to purchase a 'next generation' console with visuals from the pong era.

However it will be affordable. It'll be even harder to shell out $600 for a PS3 + $30 for the HDMI cable + $50 for a 2nd controller + $120 for both games at launch = $800. Plus xxx% eBay markup.

I'm buying a Wii this year. I'll get a PS3 or 360 once they have two+ games I want to own.

Re:Interested in performance.

[joshetc]

Not worried at all. The gamecube has nice graphics IMO. Also I'd imagine the GPU, while still a low clock speed, as you said isn't everything. If this newer GPU has twice the pipelines and twice the clock speed of the old one that would make it at least 4x faster than the previous.

You have to keep in mind that the hardware on the PS3 and 360 are massive overkill for the time being. I'd imagine most release games will use at best half of their potential resources.

All it really means is that programs for the Wii will have to be optimized, well all know that is a part of programming though, and by association, their jobs.

Re:Interested in performance.

[Tim C]

40Mb?! That's only 5MB - my phone has more RAM than that!

Re:Interested in performance.

[masklinn]

Dude, these numbers have been debunked, no one has any info on either the CPU, the GPU or the RAM, even Wikipedia doesn't use these numbers for god's sake!

Graphics aren't everything but I have become used to beautifully rendered worlds immersive worlds and effects and it will be hard for most consumers to purchase a 'next generation' console with visuals from the pong era.

Remember that the Wii only needs to go up to 480p/60fps (well all games are supposed to be 480p/60fps stable), the Xbox360 and the PS3 will range between 720p and 1080p. You need a lot of processing power for the rise in pixels alone. And the GC probably had the highest power of it's generation, only the lack of RAM made it extremely hard to reach it's best potential (just check RE4/GC).

I really doubt the Wii will be underpowered.

We'll just see, though.

Re:Interested in performance.

[rnmartinez]

I wouldn't worry. I played Resident Evil 4 on my gamecube with Component video cables and progressive scan - the graphics are way better then anything I have seen on ps2 or xbox1, so if you soup up the cube abit and you're doing everything at 480p I bet it will look great

Re:Interested in performance.

[Valafar]

I admit that I don't closely follow the news for the Wii but looking this morning, www.ebgames.com lists the processing power.

Look here.

Re:Interested in performance.

[twistedsymphony]

The graphics on RE4 for GC ARE amazing, that game was the reason I bought my Game Cube (and I kept playing it for the huge number of awesome party games)... but I wouldn't call them better then anything on the other consoles. Have you ever played Chronicles of Riddick or Splinter Cell Chaos Theory on the Xbox 1, both of those games easily surpass the graphical prowess of the GC IMO, there are a whole lot of other titles too. The PS2's graphics are debatable, it's hardware was the weakest of the three but even games like God of War, Shadow of Colossus, and Tekken 5 looked pretty damn good for the PS2's supposed specs, and depending on your tastes give RE4 a run for it's money.

The real problem with the GC was that there really weren't many games that looked as good as RE4. RE4 gets used as an example all the time but how many games like that were there? The RE games probably looked the best on the console, but most of them (though not RE4) used tricks like static images for backgrounds to make the games look like there were much more graphically superior then they really were. I think on a whole throughout the last generation the Xbox had the most consistently higher level of graphical performance. The PS2 really started to pickup in that department over the last year or so, and I think the Game Cube COULD have but there just wasn't enough development effort going into it for it's potential to be realize. Even still the Xbox 1's hardware was just plain old beefier then the other ones and there are enough cross-platform games last generation that side by side comparisons show that fairly easily.

Re:Interested in performance.

[Thansal]

make the games look like there were much more graphically superior then they really were

so, the graphics only looked better, they were not actualy better looking?

I see said the blind man.

Re:Interested in performance.

[twistedsymphony]

man wow, my grammar was pretty bad in that post... wish I had previewed. Anyway here are some screen shots for the games I was talking about if anyone is interested:
Xbox: Splinter Cell Chaos Theory, Doom 3, Chronicles of Riddick
GC: Resident Evil 4
PS2: Shaddown of the Colossus, God of War, Tekken 5

Thinking about good looking game cube games one of the games that comes to mind is Soul Calibur II, though the game looks just as good and fantastic on every console, I think the GC version is the best simply because it included Link. Though, one thing thing the Xbox version included that the other two versions didn't... was that it could render the game in 720p HD.

Re:Interested in performance.

[poot_rootbeer]

tricks like static images for backgrounds to make the games look like there were much more graphically superior then they really were.

So instead of looking better, the games only LOOKED like they looked better? Is there a difference?

Wait you mean they'll have enough of them??

[Korin43]

It's like Nintendo actually expects people to buy these things and doesn't need to limit the supply to make them sell out.. Crazy!

Re:Wait you mean they'll have enough of them??

[Yahweh Doesn't Exist]

well when you don't sell everything at a loss just to infiltrate people's living rooms with your branding the economics is a lot simpler:

the more units you sell, the more money you make.

a business model based on actually making a profit is a strange concept I know, but maybe it's just crazy enough to work!

Re:Wait you mean they'll have enough of them??

[Anonymous Coward]

Can we stop this idiotic rumor? Microsoft shipped as many units as they could possibly produce. Sony will ship as many units as they can possibly produce. There is no conspiracy and anyone who claims otherwise is borderline retarded. It would make no sense for either company to limit supply when they would sell out even if they could provide twice as many units.

Re:Wait you mean they'll have enough of them??

[masklinn]

Seems to work with the DS' (at least in Japan) for now.

Price Points

[dch24]

A little googling turns up the following info:

There's a really good Ars Technica article that breaks down the prices for the xbox360 and ps3.

xbox360: Xenon CPU $106, ATI GPU $141, total mfg cost $525 (the high end model)
ps3: Cell CPU $230, nVidia GPU $70, total mfg cost $800 (remember the debate? I think $350 for the BD-ROM is too high.)

Wii: there's no information out there on what components will cost. But the total price tag will be $250, and an educated guess says that only at most $125 of that can be the Broadway CPU and ATI GPU. Maybe Nintendo will sell the Wii as a loss leader, but they've never done that before.

Now, I'm going to use these specs which are unreliable, but speculation is all there is right now:

Total System Memory: 88 Mb RAM, 512 Mb Flash
Broadway CPU: 729 MHz
ATI GPU: 243 MHz

So the GPU probably has 32 Mb RAM or less. What this means is that it's equivalent to an ATI Radeon 9700, which fetches $30-$50 on eBay.

That leaves at most $95 for the CPU, and as little as $75. That's not a lot of money for a dual-core CPU. IBM's not going to make much money on Wii sales, and neither is Nintendo. On the other hand, Nintendo will probably make a killing when the economies of scale kick in and the prices come down. I could see the GPU dropping to $10, the CPU dropping to $50, etc.

Since this is just my speculating, I'd expect someone will reply with more info.

Re:Price Points

[Yahweh Doesn't Exist]

>Since this is just my speculating, I'd expect someone will reply with more info.

very few companies still source components for their flagship products from ebay.

Re:Price Points

[dch24]

very few companies still source components for their flagship products from ebay.

I was just pricing GPU between US$30 and US$50. Nintendo has contracted with ATI to build them a custom GPU, so they could spend anything the two companies can agree on.

The GameCube GPU would be a good reference point; Nintendo will probably spend more than that on the Wii GPU.

Re:Price Points

[masklinn]

But the total price tag will be $250

That one is wrong, the price will be under $250, and quite a few pointers tell us that it'll probably be $200/200/150£ for the bare console and a $250 pack.

Maybe Nintendo will sell the Wii as a loss leader

Not a snowball's chance in hell

Re:Price Points

[Anonymous Coward]

- The GPU is an extension of the Flipper and has been reported to have 3MB of internal memory. This ammount is included int he 88MB of total system memory. There is no comparison to any retail card available for the PC - completely different architecture.

- The system will be less than $250

- You can't do a cost breakdown and speculation unless you know the cost of some of the other components in the system. We don't.

Falls right into plan.

[Anonymous Coward]

This actually falls right into what was said about 8 months to one year ago.

That being that the Wii (Revolution) would be up for sale before Thanksgiving of this year.

Way to stick to the plan, eh?

lmao @ Hands...

[jhjmonnee]

I hurriedly read the title and thought Nintendo was planning on making a new type of power glove attachment for the Wii.. Boy was I disappointed.

Re:lmao @ Hands...

[Faylone]

You know, I bet a pair of gloves COULD duplicate the stuff that the wiimote and nunchuck do... here's hoping for such a version!

Re:lmao @ Hands...

[dreemernj]

There has already been talk of a "Controller Glove" so you might still have reason to be excited!

Although I think the "Controller Glove" they are talking about is something that you slip onto the Wiimote to keep it safe.

Return to consoles

[busydoingnothing]

I have been a Nintendo fan ever since I first ran through World 1-1 in Super Mario Bros. way back when. My last console was the SNES, and after that I pretty much dedicated myself to PC gaming. I purchased a DS Lite the day it came out, and I am definitely going to buy a Wii. I can't help but wonder how many other people are in the same situation, returning to consoles after so many years to pick up the Wii.

Re:Return to consoles

[crankyspice]

+1 here. My last console was an original Nintendo (we started with the Atari 2600, and my younger brother had an NEC TurboGrafx16), and I've basically sat out the last decade+ of console development. And PC development, kinda (Mac user; I have Quake 2 and StarCraft on my PowerBook ;). I picked up a second-hand GameCube recently to get (re?)acquainted with (relatively) modern console gaming; you know, more than a four-way directional controller, an A and B button, Select and Start... I think the Revolution buzz was what rekindled it for me. Now, I need old-school SMB and Metroid and Zelda in addition to the new-fangled versions of those... (Metroid Prime still floors me.)

Re:Return to consoles

[The Wooden Badger]

I had an Atari 2600, an NES, then went to Sega Genesis. I did get a Sega Dreamcast (to play around with the DC Linux port, and the homebrews) when they stopped making them, so that kind of doesn't count. But yeah, I may very well be getting a Wii. Slightly different road, but we're in basically the same boat.

Re:Return to consoles

[masklinn]

ditto, I'm in the same position console for console.

Re:Return to consoles

[steveo777]

I just popped in both Metroids last night. Still amazing looking games. I was playing Dead Rising last weekend on a 32" in 480p for a long time and I still think Metroid prime is beautiful on a crappy 27". I'm moving to a cheaper living situation soon here and I'm pretty excited because I may be able to comfortably fit a hi-def TV into my budget. I'm thinking a 36"+ widescreen with 720p. Some of those DLP's look realy nice right now.

Mostly I want one for Metroid Prime 1&2, and RE4. Currently my brain is drooling a bit.

Re:Return to consoles

[locallyunscene]

I'm doing the same thing. I Started with a nintendo, then got an SNES(both of which I dust off and play occasionally). Then I switched exclusively to PC gaming, but the Wii is drawing me back to consoles because it seems to be providing functionality that PC's don't have. This is in comparison to other systems (not just this generation) which are just proprietary computers IMO. That plus the supposedly cheap price are bringing me back into the console fold.

Re:Return to consoles

[Digicrat]

Same here, at least as far as Console gaming goes. I really haven't gotten excited about any games, PC or Console systems since the N64 (except maybe GTA3s). Somehow, I never saw any value in getting any of the current generation systems . . . although I keep telling myself I'll get an Xbox1 one of these days for the sake of running Linux on it.

The Wii though seems to be the first system/game-set in a while that actually has the potential for real innovation. Sure high-end graphics look nice, but gameplay hasn't really evolved much since N64/PS and the original analog sticks. Everything since has (with some exceptions) just been upping the graphics power and increasing the size. The Wii will give us all the old classics, AND hopefully inspire some real gameplay innovations taking advantage of the motion sensor controls.

Nintendo in my mind has always been successful because they put creativity and/or innovation (NES LightGun, SNES Scope, VirtualBoy, 64DD /w online (I remember being excited about this before they cancelled it), DS /w Stylus + dual screen, . . . not always successful, but at least they try) ahead of brute power, and the Wii might just be their key back to the top.

Not quite...

[GFLPraxis]

"The closer you are to the bar, the higher the sensitivity."

Opposite, actually. Getting too close (within a couple feet) of the TV tends to make it hard for it to get exactly where you are pointing. I tried putting the Wiimote close to the TV to see if it helped me aim when I was playing it at E3, and when it made the pointer go nuts the representative told me that it loses sensitivity when you get that close and to stand back.

I could aim better from a distance.

Re:Not quite...

[thatguywhoiam]

Getting too close (within a couple feet) of the TV tends to make it hard for it to get exactly where you are pointing. I tried putting the Wiimote close to the TV to see if it helped me aim when I was playing it at E3, and when it made the pointer go nuts the representative told me that it loses sensitivity when you get that close and to stand back.

Interesting. Did you get any impression that this might cause difficulty for people with small living rooms? (or big coffee tables that get in the way, like mine?)

Re:Not quite...

[iocat]

You could stand behind the coffee table. Or put the bar away from the front of the TV. I suspect many games will have a calibration mode to aid in this.

Responding to the grandparent post: At E3, I had a slightly bad time controlling things with the Wiis on the floor where it was really crowded, but when I was able to get into Nintendo's sanctum sanctorium off the floor (where Wiis outnumbered people by 3 to 1), things were significantly easier. So, I don't think you can judge the experience from the showfloor demos.

IBM Wii's on Nintendo's hands???

[revolu7ion]

oh, sorry - i misread the title...

Re:IBM Wii's on Nintendo's hands???

[cortana]

... and slept through English class when you should have been learning how to use apostrophes.

It could make sense to limit supply

[LKM]

It would make no sense for either company to limit supply when they would sell out even if they could provide twice as many units.

Actually, regardless of whether Sony or Microsoft did or will do this, it could make sense to do it. By creating an artificial scarcity, you're doing two things:

1. Increasing the perceived worth of the item you're selling (less supply at the same level of demand)
2. Showing people that a lot of other people think the PS3 is worth it - so much people, in fact, that they can't produce enough to satisfy demand

If you do that early enough, people will remember that for the rest of the life of the console. Most people still think the PS2 is better than the Gamecube. Why? Because Sony made sure to keep the perceived worth of the PS2 as high as possible.

Re:It could make sense to limit supply

[Anonymous Coward]

Also note that news stories about the lines outside stores and the 'mad rush' to get the 'hot new sony game console' constitute free advertising.

Re:It could make sense to limit supply

[Anonymous Coward]

You're assuming that they wouldnt have sold out if they had trippled supply.

Re:It could make sense to limit supply

[cortana]

Looking at current sales rate I recon it wouldn't have...

Re:It could make sense to limit supply

[bri2000]

Yes it could make sense, and does in some industries (the De Beers diamond cartel, for example, operates in this way by restricting supply of certain types of stone). The problem with applying this sort of strategy to the console industry is that the majority of profit comes from the sales of software. Whatever effect a deliberate restriction on supply may have on the perceived value of your product (and I think the positive effect of this is highly debatable in the context of mass market consumer electronics rather than luxury goods) what it undeniably does do is put an upper cap on the number of units of software that can be sold while this restriction is in place. Given that there will only be 400,000 PS3s for North America this year and budgets for games in the $10-20 million range it seems it's going to be very difficult for developers of the first generation of software to make a profit (especially as early software for consoles tends to date very quickly as developers get to grips with the machine and better games emerge), and that can't be good for anyone.

Re:It could make sense to limit supply

[LKM]

The point is that restricting sales at the beginning may lead to higher sales down the road.

But you're right, of course: It may also lead to less games being sold, which may lead to developpers pulling support, which leads to less games which may lead to less interest in the console.

What a pointless article

[SleepyHappyDoc]

Stay tuned for next weeks news..."ACME Box Co Announces Wii shipping boxes are in Nintendo's hands"

So they got a part...do we really need a blow-by-blow?

Re:What a pointless article

[smoker2]

Actually, I could do with a blow right now ...

Re:What a pointless article

[jizziknight]

A blow on/to your Wii, perhaps?

irregardless

[burndive]

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Re:irregardless

[Anonymous Coward]

Sure it does. Languages evolve. Deal with it.

Re:irregardless

[oscartheduck]

Languages evolve, but checking http://merriamwebster.com/dictionary/irregardless> a reputable source will show that it hasn't reached accepted usage. Defending "that's an ungrammatical clause" with "language evolves" or defending "that isn't a real word" with "language evolves" is lazy.

Re:irregardless

[elrous0]

Language DOES evolve. And "accepted usage" is purely subjective. The sole question you need ask is "Is the meaning and connotation of this word effectively conveyed to the audience that's being addressed, without need for further definition?" If the answer is "yes," then it's a word. And when someone says "Irregardless of the consequences..." everyone knows damn well EXACTLY what they mean, irregardless of whether or not they want to nitpick the relative merits of "irregardless" vs. "regardless" (or "inflammable" vs. "flammable," for that matter).

-Eric

Re:irregardless

[oscartheduck]

See, I can accept the argument to a certain extent. The problem for me comes with obfuscation of communcation: sometimes I read a post on slashdot or on a forum somewhere and there's genuinely a great nugget of insight there, but I can't get to it. When other posters come along and tease the meaning of some posts out for me, I can be very impressed at the interesting or unique point of view being expressed.

The fact is that, for me, when using a written method of communication I see extraordinary value in rules of grammar and spelling simply so that I can follow along what's being said. It's not an assholish thing when I cringe and ask an individual to clarify whether they're intending to mean X or Y, it's because I actually want to know what's being said. So when I say that it's best to go to a formal source and discover what is considered common usage, it's actually to help the discussion along.

Not that anything outside of the first sentence or so of this response addresses anything you said.

I suppose it might help for you to know that I actually don't know what this specific word (i.e. 'irregardless') is intended to mean in some contexts. If you had meant "regardless", your sentence above means "it doesn't matter whether they want to pick apart the merits of these two terms, we know what was intended". If you actually meant to mean something closer to "regardful" above, your sentence means something closer to"everyone knows what they mean, even though they want to pick apart what was being said." Subtle differences mask meaning.

Either way, I don't want to get into a grammar Nazi fight here, so I'll quietly leave now. I appreciate your response, though, because there is definitely a valid point that language does change.

Re:irregardless

[Anonymous Coward]

That's devolution, not evolution.

If people started using "untrue" to mean "true", would you consider that to be an evolution of the language?

Re:irregardless

[shimage]

Obviously we are in some disagreement here, since I am bothering to reply, but I really like having standards. I had thought that the slashdot crowd was with me on this, but maybe I was wrong. Just as would like all browsers to support web standards and all wordprocessors to support standard (well-documented) document formats, I would like everyone (when using English) to write in standard English. It just makes things easier.

Yes, I have seen enough people use "irregardless" and "rediculous" that I can parse it (it takes me awhile since I still parse it as "not regardless" on the first pass). I don't mind typos (or left-out words) or people who don't speak English as a first language. I don't even care if the mess up while talking to me. My bitch is with people that supposedly "speak" English, but for some god-forsaken reason can't manage to write a sentence without using fake words.

Doh

[headkase]

MSD brand hard drive = MSD brand disk drive.
My bad.

Why is this news?

[mh101]

I think all of us would have naturally assumed that Nintendo would already have received the processors from IBM. As well as the rest of the parts they need from all the other various vendors. It's not like they wouldn't be getting them until a week before launch date.

Re:Why is this news?

[Bwerf]

Because assuming != knowing. Wasn't Nintendo going to announce the launch date in about a week from now too? This also lets us know that there is less of risk of a delay.

Re:Why is this news?

[masklinn]

We don't know. They have big worldwide conferences on the 13th (Japan), 14th (Europe) and 15th (NA), most people/fanboys expect official disclosure of price and date (it's about time, after all) but not a thing has filtered. We still don't know what they're about.

Oh yeah, it starts the day after the Apple conf (12th of September) where they *may* unveil an upgrade of the Macbook Pros (and maybe even the MBs) to Core2 CPUs (I mean they just upgraded the iMac high end, and every MBP shipping is on hold at the moment)

Re:Why is this news?

[ShadowsHawk]

Not exactly. Most people assume the launch will not take place for another month or two. If that is true, Nintendo is most likely using JITD (just in time delivery) to reduce inventory cost.

Re:Why is this news?

[C0rinthian]

I sent my MBP in for repair this week, and it's currently on hold because replacement parts are on order.

I was getting pretty irritated about waiting, but if this is why, I'll survive.

Why news indeed?

[gundamstuff]

Well guess the PS3 bashing had to end someday, and leave it gaming blogs to over hype shit.

Meanwhile, over at www.powercordworld.com....

[Hamster Lover]

You should see the tizzy industry types have got themselves into over at www.powercordworld.com. It was just announced that shipments on Wii power cords are right on schedule and production is going strong.

Re:Meanwhile, over at www.powercordworld.com....

[soft_guy]

Dude, I just checked and www.powercordworld.com seems to be down. Do you think it has been Slashdotted?

Scary flashback

[tygerstripes]

The first chips are in our possession,' said Genyo Takeda

So... in other words, "All your chips are belong to us".

Re:Scary flashback

[Z80a]

SONY has no chance to survive make you time!

Re:Scary flashback

[tygerstripes]

For great justice.

Re:Scary flashback

[Anonymous Coward]

For massive damage.

Fishkill

[PhotoGuy]

the company's East Fishkill, N.Y., fabrication facility

Their manufacturing plant, which no doubt produces some toxic chemicals, is in a town called East Fishkill? There's gotta be an interesting story behind that name :)

Re:Fishkill

[Y-Crate]

Their manufacturing plant, which no doubt produces some toxic chemicals, is in a town called East Fishkill? There's gotta be an interesting story behind that name :)

"Kill" means "Fresh Water Channel" in Dutch. Since New York City was once called "New Amsterdam" for a good reason, you can understand why the word "kill" pops up all over the place. It was however, a cringe-worthy experience hearing about all of the World Trade Center debris being taken to the Fresh Kills landfill five years ago. I could imagine how people all over the country were reacting to hearing the name over and over again, without any explanation from newscasters as to what "kill" meant in this particular context.

To those unknowledgeable about the origins of the word, it sounded like New Yorkers had particularly horrific taste.

Re:Fishkill

[yerM)M]

the company's East Fishkill, N.Y., fabrication facility
Their manufacturing plant, which no doubt produces some toxic chemicals, is in a town called East Fishkill? There's gotta be an interesting story behind that name :)

Blame the dutch. "kill" just means stream in dutch, hence the Catskill mountains, etc. One of my favorite names from my drive home is "Fishs Eddy".

Anyway, while making sure that I remembered what I was talking about it turns out that in 1996 PETA tried to get them to change their name. What a world.

Re:Fishkill

[Anonymous Coward]

My first thought was: Woah, they actually *manufacture* some stuff in the USA? I thought it was just farms and Denny's restaurants.

That should help with managing demand, by reducing time between the factory and the shop.

Re:Fishkill

[Chris Burke]

To those unknowledgeable about the origins of the word, it sounded like New Yorkers had particularly horrific taste.

That's pretty dang funny. Particularly because, instead of what at first seems like a bizarre and violent name for a landfill, it turns out to be the completely commonplace convention of naming a development after what you destroyed to put it there (naming a housing complex "Cedar Grove", a landfill "Fresh Water").

Re:Fishkill

[Wannabe Code Monkey]

Having grown up in New York, I can verify that you see kill all over the place, I'm sure most people have heard of the Catskill Mountains and such. But even just driving around you'll often go over various kills, Mourningkill, Valatie Kill, and so on. In fact, I never thought twice about the name Fresh Kills and the WTC debris.

Re:Fishkill

[John Betonschaar]

"Kill" means "Fresh Water Channel" in Dutch.

I'm dutch and I don't know the word 'kill' or anything that sounds like it, and means 'fresh water channel'. Also I don't know any dutch cities that have 'kill' or 'kil' in their name, which you'd expect if this were true. I actually think your explanation is BS.

Re:Fishkill

[jeblucas]

Only altavista can solve this! Robin! To the babelfish!

Dutch to English on "kil" gives us "chilly"! Fascinating! "Fresh Water Channel" English to Dutch is "zoet waterkanaal"! Interesting! Wait, what were we talking about?

I'd also like to point out that if the grandparent is correct and there's a Fresh Kills Channel in NY, then it would translate to "Fresh Fresh Water Channel Channel". Dutch is awesome. If grandparent is a liar, then he should die in a fire. His pants will start one soon.

Re:slashdong is gayer than shit on a dick!

[sickboyedd]

Yeah, all very well about your dong, but can you run linux on it?

Re:slashdong is gayer than shit on a dick!

[Anonymous Coward]

No, but you can on OS X.

Not even gay Linux users get any action.

East Fishkill?

[dave_mcmillen]

Clearly a made-up name for a town. Just east of West BumF*ck, isn't it?

Re:East Fishkill?

[shoptroll]

Actually, it's south and west of the northwest corner of CT (I believe). That's pretty darn close to BumF*ck if you will.

Re:East Fishkill?

[Anonymous Coward]

Surely East BumF*ck is east of West BumF*ck.

Higher clock than E3 dev kits?

[saboola]

FTFA: According to the company, Silicon on Insulator technology from IBM helps deliver to Nintendo a generous improvement in processing power, while achieving a 20 percent reduction in energy consumption compared to the 'Gekko'.

Less energy consumption usually means less heat. If there is less heat could we be seeing a higher clocked version of the chip than the one shown at E3?

Re:Higher clock than E3 dev kits?

[evamedia]

Maybe it won't need a wind turbine to cool it like the 360

Not terribly difficult

[lpangelrob]

These are essentially upgraded versions of the Gamecube chip after all, right? With about twice the processing power and 30% less energy usage.

Sony's Cell architecture comes off as being a whole lot more complex. I don't know if IBM delivered for them on time or on budget, or how much more time they spent on architecture development. The point is that if IBM missed timely delivery on the new Wii chips, I'd be pretty surprised.

Re:Not terribly difficult

[DrXym]

These are essentially upgraded versions of the Gamecube chip after all, right? With about twice the processing power and 30% less energy usage.

The specs are still unannounced, but I'd doubt they would blow anyone away. It does sound like a low power consumption powerpc chip - the kind of thing that might have seen light of day in a Mac Mini or a laptop if Apple had stuck with the PPC architecture. The Wii is very unlikely to need the computing power of either the XBox 360 or PS3 though since it has a lower screen res and therefore no reason to push as many polys around as those other platforms. Lower power also means the Wii can be aircooled which is a bonus.

The biggest problem for the Wii (aside from the controller) is that lower performance, lower memory, lower resolution etc. will mean that titles from the 360 or PS3 cannot be ported without substantial changes. The console is going to have to rely on exclusive content because the number of mainstream games that it shares (and shares favourably) against the other platforms is going to be pretty low.

Re:Not terribly difficult

[dogbowl]

"The biggest problem for the Wii (aside from the controller) is that lower performance, lower memory, lower resolution etc. will mean that titles from the 360 or PS3 cannot be ported without substantial changes"

What you see as a problem, I see as a bonus. The further EA and similar craptastic titles stay away, the more I'll enjoy the Wii.

Re:Not terribly difficult

[Udderdude]

By substantial changes, you mean a lower resolution and lower poly count? Who cares, as long as it's playable.

Re:Not terribly difficult

[Anonymous Coward]

Sure, but this never stopped the PS2. Many would even say that the PS2 was less powerful in most respects than the Dreamcast, which launched in 1998 in Japan (nearly a decade ago). There are still plenty of games showing up on the PS2 that either don't show up on other consoles, or are just a port among all three (four, if you count the XBox 360 with Nintendo and SEGA's current offerings).

That said, I doubt that Wii's Broadway CPU will be any slouch. Nintendo was a little tight-lipped about Gecko's capabilities as well. What we've seen so far is mere speculation, and the alleged "leaked" specs were not even a G4-class PPC chip. I doubt that Nintendo will skimp on the power, in spite of their stance on innovation vs. hardware with this generation. Will it be as powerful as the XBox 360 or PS3? Maybe. Maybe not. But we don't know how powerful the PS3 will be at this point either. All we have are numbers from Sony, and if it's anything like the PS2 was - Sony is pretty good at making inflated claims in an attempt to increase product hype. So, if the PS3 is at least twice as powerful as the PS2, which is already less powerful than the Gamecube... The Wii will probably be in fine shape even if it is an "upgrade" to the Gamecube. Remember... 7 SPE cores does not make a CPU 7x as powerful as a single core CPU. Look at multiprocessor/multicore PCs as a good example.

Re:Not terribly difficult

[DrXym]

Not just that. The thing is likely to be slower, to have less system memory, a weird controller. All these mean that code written for the PS3 or 360 is very likely to require substantial reworking to function on the Wii. It's not so much a port as a rewrite. In fact I reckon that the task will be so difficult that you're far more likely to see Wii games coming from the GC / PS2 / Xbox direction than from the 360 / PS3 direction.

Re:Not terribly difficult

[DrXym]

I don't think the chip will be a slouch either. A decent G4 processor decked out with a decent GPU would be plenty fast. The problem I see is that the PS3 and 360 are faster yet and pretty close to each other feature-wise - similar CPUs, memory, storage, controllers, network. Then you have this Wii thing which is nowhere near the spec of either of them either by CPU, memory, resolution, sound, storage, controller or anything else. Clearly porting from 360 to PS3 or vice versa is going to be considerably easier than porting from 360 / PS3 to Wii. The whole game and all its graphics would have to be pruned to fit the Wii.

That naturally implies the Wii is going to have to rely a lot more on exclusive titles than either of the other consoles.

As for the Cell processor, I don't think anyone claims it will be 7x faster than a regular CPU, but it will absolutely scream at pushing data around which is what video games spend their lives doing. Whether it will be faster than the 3-core "Xenon" in the 360 is debateable. My guess is that it will be slower for general application logic but faster for pipelined operations and everything will even out. It seems very unlikely that the more conventional and conservative Wii chip will be a shade on either of them.

Re:Not terribly difficult

[poot_rootbeer]

code written for the PS3 or 360 is very likely to require substantial reworking to function on the Wii. It's not so much a port as a rewrite.

Given the architectural differences between the PS3's Core and the 360's Xenon, I wouldn't surprised if a similar type eof situation exists bringing a PS3 game to the 360 or vice versa.

Another solution could be for the developers to come up with a cross-platform kind of "least common denominator" API to code against, but such a thing would be unlikely to take advantage of the full potential of either platform. Developers using this approach could end up making games that don't look or play any better than a Wii game optimized specifically for that platform.

Re:Not terribly difficult

[bestinshow]

The whole game and all its graphics would have to be pruned to fit the Wii.

Graphics can be trimmed without losing quality (for the target resolution), assuming that the Wii graphics chip supports the same graphics compression mechanisms as the XBox360 and PS£. 1280x720 is around 4x as many pixels as 640x480, 3x as 720x480. You can remove the top level mip-map detail from all graphics and the drop in rendering resolution will mean that the effect of this will not be noticed. Considering that graphics will be the majority of memory use in a game, the drop in system memory will not be as bad is it would seem at first glance. You could probably remove two mip map levels if you needed, assuming that most people would be playing on a 480i device.

However the drop in CPU power will affect gameplay, AI, physics and so on. If you are talking about 1.5x to 2x the CPU power of the GameCube, then that's not a lot extra to work with, given having to handle the controllers, networking, USB and so on as well. You've gotta accept that a 6 thread, 3 core 3.2GHz CPU as the XBox360 has will beat a ~750MHz single threaded single core CPU, even if the latter is far more efficient per clock. Squeezing a codebase onto the Wii from the XBox360 or PS3 will require cutting corners in your algorithms. Or writing more efficient routines.

Re:Not terribly difficult

[Anonymous Coward]

1280x720 is around 4x as many pixels as 640x480.

640*480*3 = 640*1440 = 1280*720

Moo

[Chacham]

"IBM has announced that the 'Broadway' CPUs created for the Nintendo Wii have been shipping from the company's East Fishkill, N.Y., fabrication facility since earlier this year.

I knew it. The double-ewe aye aye stupid name change isn't true. Indeed, IBM even admitted it was a fabrication. Long live the Nintendo Revolution!

Re:Moo

[Anonymous Coward]

Think of the benefits when picking up girls, though! Like, plausible deniability.

Me: Would you like to come to my place and play with my wee?

Girl: Please go away. I have a gun.

Me: Hey, I was talking about playing casual-gamer-friendly videogames on Nintendo's nonthreatening, adorable new platform! Miss, you wound me.

Girl: Oh. I'm sorry. Come to think of it, that sounds like a good time.

Me: And then perhaps later we could have sex.

*Much* preferable to the current system (Girl: I'm going to slap you now. Me: Fair enough.)

So my script filter word is 'gutter?' What are you trying to say, Slashdot? Huh?!

Chips

[riffzifnab]

God damn, a press release about chips? Nintendo must really be reaching here. I mean I love Cape Cod chips just as much as the next dude but you don't see me doing a press release every time I buy some.

They must be British, but I don't see any reference to any fish acquisitions.

East Fishkill... the Cell plant?

[VGPowerlord]

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but isn't the East Fishkill plant the one that Sony just invested millions of dollars upgrading to support fabricating Cell processors?

I smell potential lawsuit!

Re:East Fishkill... the Cell plant?

[Anonymous Coward]

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but isn't the East Fishkill [techweb.com] plant the one that Sony just invested millions of dollars upgrading to support fabricating Cell processors?

Yes, it is a source of Cells, yes, Sony invested in the IBM process, but no, it is not newsworthy that they're both coming from the same foundry.

Oct. 2nd

[Cyno01]

I know it seems early, but i work in retail, we got the Q4 game release schedule, and theres nothing on the second, but Wii games start popping up on the 10th and 17th then. Also i guess there was a recent press release from nintendo that had launch dates for every week in Q4 except for then 2nd, Nov 20th and 27th. I dont think the Wii is gonna launch on the same day as the PS3 or after black friday, so that leaves the 2nd of october. Which, although a little earlier than everyone though, shouldnt cause problems, because the Wiis been in production for quite a while. I guess we'll see after the announcement on the 14th. Crap, i better get in line...

Coffee hasn't kicked in yet

[TheWoozle]

It must be early because I read that last sentence as "final stage of our drive to reach both core and nontraditional gamers with an inviting, inclusive and trademarkable gaming experience."

I'm with you on this

[zakaron]

Yeah, I hear where you guys are coming from. My interest has gone downhill after selling my SNES. I hung on to my Sega CDX, which I still play sometimes. My interest came back briefly with GBA, which I did buy new. I occasionally play some quick games on my bro's Gamecube (Smash Bro is great), but I'm still not used to / convinced on the analog stick. Call me old fashioned. I've typically had interest in PC games, but now the Wii has really piqued my interest once again. Gameplay over graphics, and I'm liking what I see. Now if they just release FF6 for GBA...

Re:I'm with you on this

[docdude316]

I know this is a little off topic but FF6 is being released for the GBA this holiday season. At that time you will able to play all the Final Fantasy games 1-6 on the Nintendo DS (1,2,4,5,6 via the GBA slot and 3 as a DS game).

IBM Chips for Cheap -- General Purpose?

[wonkavader]

True that no matter which wins, there are going to be IBM chips in them. But they're all interesting chips -- meaning non-Intel. And IBM (and the other fabricators) will sell bizzillions of them, and that should drive the cost of them down.

So a few questions:

When will we see these chips getting cheap enough to use as PCs? (How many years of production will it take to make these $100 CPUs.)

Will people want that? They're optimized for games, and while there will be Linux ports for all of them, will they be good performers? I'm especially wondering about the Nintendo chip, as it looks like it'll be the cheapest soonest. There is already a Linux port for Gamecube -- so a cheap general purpose motherboard would be not absurdly hard to market with Linux. Are there reasons to do this?

Seems like Cell is unstoppable, if the PS3 takes off -- it's a pain in the butt to program, but CGI folks will put up with the pain to use its horsepower.

The Power chip in the Xbox must be a good general purpose CPU -- it's from a long line of such chips. Could cheap Power chips made in the bizzillions get us interested in Power desktops and Power commodity servers?

Is there ANY such path for the Broadway chips? Are they generally useful enough to run, say, Openoffice well?

Re:IBM Chips for Cheap -- General Purpose?

[uarch]

1) These chips won't be in PCs. They're a PowerPC derivitive and won't be running your x86 PC code. That being said its already possible to pickup sub-$100 CPUs if you aren't fixated on getting the fastest core out there. (Just like Nintendo didn't want the fastest possible core. They wanted good performance for low-cost)

2) I'd be surprised if someone didn't get Linux up and running on it but I doubt it'll be a common practice.

3) Yeah, Cell is definitely interesting to program since its parallelism is thrown right in your face. There's some compiler work that's been going on for a while to automate the process a little but I don't track it so I have no clue what its current status is (the last white paper I read seemed promising though). It will definitely be used by more than just game consoles & cgi graphics. Its already being applied to some medical imaging, radar and there was just an IBM announcement about an upcoming system for one of the government labs that will be using 16,000 Cells and 16,000 Opterons. It'll be the world's fastest computer when it's finished.

4) While the Xbox core can run general purpose code just fine it is definitely geared towards graphics much more than your standard PC. I don't have a link laying around but there are a few diagrams floating around online that show how the system is architected. The GPU is really the heart of the system with the CPU hanging off to the side - reversed from current PC architectures.
Could the Xbox core be used as a desktop part? Sure. Will it? Not likely. The momentum that would be required to completely rearchitect PCs is enormous (software & hardware would all have to change). This pretty much goes back to point #1.

Anyway. These views in no way represent IBM and I may be completely off-base.

Re:IBM Chips for Cheap -- General Purpose?

[Anonymous Coward]

The cell chip is the only one with potential. Intel is about to release a quad core conroe chip in November that wipes out the 360 PPC chip. The cell chip with 8 SPEs can do some serious number crunching that is hard to match. There's already blade servers available with 2 Cell chips and I'm already trying out the SDK on them. I think in terms of performance for anything related to video processing, the cell is extremely tough to beat for the price.

IF NINTENDO HAD A DICK, ZONK WOULD BE SUCKING IT!!

[Anonymous Coward]

lol, Zonk is such an obvious anti-sony, pro-nintendo bigot

re: Sensitivity and the remote sensor

[Stunning Tard]

The closer you are to the bar, the higher the sensitivity.

Opposite, actually. [..] I could aim better from a distance.

It reads like you're saying the same thing as the GP.
If the pointer is going nuts that is higher sensitivity and lower accuracy.
If you are breaking light fixtures and scaring the dog that would be lower sensitivity and higher accuracy.

Meanwhile, IBM is on fire

[Anonymous Coward]

Not a joke: http://www.clarin.com/diario/2006/09/08/um/m-01267 643.htm

Babelfish translation:
The fire affects the terrace of the building, located in the Alem avenue to the 900. Four dowries of firemen work in the place and not yet the causes were determined by which the fire began.

Four dowries of firemen try to control this morning a fire in a building of the Buenosairean district of Retirement. Not yet the causes were determined and it is not known if there are victims. The fire affects the terrace of a tower where offices of IBM, located work in Alem to the 900 in the intersection with the Cordova avenue.

Unfounded Hype! (or, Nintendo == Apple?)

[ostermei]

(Disclaimer: I have no factual basis whatsoever for the theory I'm about to spout. There's probably zero chance that this will come to pass, but it sure would be cool :)

As has been pointed out here on /. (and elsewhere around the Intertron) on many occasions, Nintendo has some superficial parallels with Apple. Both companies offer products in their respective arenas that may not be the most powerful or the most feature-rich, but their products tend to be of the highest quality (and stylish, to boot). Focusing on doing a limited set of things, but doing those things well seems to be the modus operandi of both companies (see the iPod and the DS).

Nintendo is targeting the Wii at a new market. They're looking for casual gamers, older gamers, gamers who would not have even considered buying a console in the past. These are the buyers that Nintendo really wants to get the Wii to. Now, with the current console release model, companies announce the price and release date of the system many months in advance. This allows current gamers, who keep abreast of these things, to get in their pre-orders right away, essentially buying up all of the initial units right off the bat. The casual gamer generally can't get the system at launch even if they wanted to. If Nintendo wants to court the casual gamer with the Wii, they need to make sure that said casual gamer can actually buy one as soon as it launches.

Now take another look at Apple. When Apple is gearing up to release a new product, they don't make a peep about it ahead of time. They announce a press event a few weeks out, and then keep everything under wraps. Rumors leak out, of course, but that only serves to build up the all-important hype. Then, at the press event, the new products are announced, and immediately they're available on Apple's website and in their meatspace stores. No waiting. No preferential treatment for Apple fanboys. It's first-come, first-served.

With the news that Nintendo has already been receiving shipments one of the main components of the Wii, it's quite possible that the system could be launched very very soon (Joystiq, for example, has floated a rumor that it could be "within weeks" or "by the end of the month."). Perhaps Nintendo has decided to take a page from Apple's book again. Next week Nintendo has scheduled three nearly-simultaneous press events at three separate locations across the globe. As mentioned in my disclaimer above, I have no facts to back this up, but maybe... just maybe... Nintendo's going to do it exactly like Apple.

How cool would it be if next week Nintendo holds their press event, talks up the Wii, shows videos of all the launch games, etc, etc, and then at the end they announce, Jobs-like, that the system is available to purchase right now?

Re:Unfounded Hype! (or, Nintendo == Apple?)

[Colourspace]

Yes this would be uber-cool... But for one word - Saturn... :)

Re:Unfounded Hype! (or, Nintendo == Apple?)

[Anonymous Coward]

I would say that this (probably) won't happen, but I wouldn't be too surprised to see something similar happen. Nintendo (in the past) has been pretty negative towards (system) pre-orders for various reasons; they don't ensure customers get the product, they encourage bundle-gouging, and ebay-horders exploit the system (gaining pre-orders from several stores) for their own profit. At the same time several retailers (Walmart/Target, Bestbuy/Futureshop) dislike pre-orders because it has their employees doing work which is not necessary or beneficial to the bottom line.

If you were Nintendo, and you announced your systems price and release date 2-16 days in advance of the release because stores will not have time to prepare a pre-order campaign. At the same time, even if you supplied 1 Million units (and there was enough to go around) people would be in a mad panic on launch day to get a console; you'd see people lining up infront of walmart 2 days in advance to get the first system (that'd supply a lot of press, even if it was just people saying "poor geeky nerds").

Either that or Nintendo could announce "we've built a time machine and launched the system 5 years ago; everyone already owns it and loves it" ... And I'd be like "WTF, how'd this get in my house and how come I can't remember playing it"

Ignorant of your own language...

[Anonymous Coward]

Hmm what about Dordtsche Kil and Sluiskil?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kill_(body_of_water)

Jeesh!

btw the East Fishkill Plant, ironically, has gotten in trouble for polluting groundwater...

Re:Choices

[Anonymous Coward]

What kind of a freaking moron are you? What in the name of all that is holy led you to think that posting this in a story about game systems was something that even approximated a good idea? How is this even relevant? No, really, what was the main reason that made you realize that all of us, who are here to read about the next Nintendo system, wanted to hear about your stupid ass fishing reel?!?! Get a freaking life, moron!

It seems to works like an optical mouse

[juancn]

The 'sensor bar' appears to be just a IR led illuminator to provide a bright IR line of leds (something easy to detect, and that's why I'm gessing Halogen lights will interfere with the wiimote).

The black window in the wiimote, contains a custom sensor, which seems to be a low resolution IR camera, plus some more circutry to detect the bright IR line (the black window is a visible light filter).

An optical mouse works similarly. It has an illuminator, plus a sensor that actually is a camera (16x16 pixels typically) and some circutry that detects displacements in the image.

So it's not that hard to do. Displacement is easy to detect if you have a clear pattern in the image (we already do it for optical mice), if you're too close to the 'sensor bar' the wiimote 'sees' that the line across all its field of view, and that complicates detecting displacement across the direction of the line.

Probably the sensor has the added ability to detect rotations in the image, no just displacement.

Another Consideration

[Blakey Rat]

That said, playing games doesn't work on an mpeg2 card because it introduces about 300 milliseconds or so of latency between you pressing a button on the controller and seeing an image on the screen. I've tried it; it's unplayable for all but the slowest turn-based games.

Classic

[Anonymous Coward]

"your attempt at looking smart than me failed."

Nice work, Homer.

Zoink

[Anonymous Coward]

I know it's popular to bash Zoink right now for being so biased (typically biased towards the XBox) but I don't think that it is really fair. For the most part, at this point in time there are far more positive stories for the Wii and XBox 360 than there are for the PS3; and there are far more negative stories for the PS3 than there are for the Wii or XBox 360. Just a quick look at google news and you get the following stories:

Testing Sony
I remember those being my first thoughts as I learned of Sony's ambitious goals for the launch of the PS3. 2 million units shipped and a worldwide launch? Pretty sweet. Sony's plan looked like a good thing, too -- there'd be enough PS3s to go around, and everyone in the world could lay hands on the company's next-gen console. But things don't always go as planned, and it seems like Sony's in a bit of a pickle right now.
http://www.gamersmark.com/articles/206

Sony Doesn't Even Have Dev Kits Anymore
And just when you thought things can't get any worse for the guys at Sony... I'm no big Sony fan, but i honestly feel kinda bad for them, they've been running into alot of trouble lately... Yesterday their PAL release issues and the dramatic cut in numbers of PS3s available at launch... And today an even more shameful event: Sony don't even have enough dev kits to supply game-developers.
http://www.playfuls.com/news_7071_Sony_Doesnt_Even _Have_Dev_Kits_Anymore.html

Game Delay Hits Sony's Shares
TOKYO -- Sony Corp. shares fell 1.6% in Tokyo on concerns that a four-month delay in the launch of its PlayStation 3 game console in Europe could damage the Japanese electronics giant's earnings.
http://online.wsj.com/google_login.html?url=http%3 A%2F%2Fonline.wsj.com%2Farticle%2FSB11576590436725 6693.html%3Fmod%3Dgooglenews_wsj

Sony Setback Will Help Rivals
Sony Corp.'s disclosure Wednesday that manufacturing problems will diminish the launch of its PlayStation 3, slated to be the market's most expensive and advanced videogame player, will give rivals more time to establish their consoles in the market.
http://online.wsj.com/google_login.html?url=http%3 A%2F%2Fonline.wsj.com%2Farticle%2FSB11575827587965 5647.html%3Fmod%3Dgooglenews_wsj

The truth is that the Playstation 3 went from being the golden child of the videogame industry (where everyone was certain of it's success before it's launch), to being a console which many gamers want to see fail. I know, you'll say "But the opinion of people online doesn't matter, just look at 'snakes on a plane' or Microsoft's Windows." to which I would reply:

There are certain similarities between the Movie (operating system) market and the videogame market; in these markets it is the uninformed consumers who (simply through their massive numbers) makes most of the purchases. The difference though is that for (about) the first 12-18 months the only people who buy a videogame system are the informed customer (who will spend their time online chatting in forums about the fate of a product); in order for a console to attract exclusive third party development the console's manufacturer has to sell vast quantities of systems to the informed consumer.

No matter what you think, it is clear that Sony is in trouble and no ammount of spin or bias on their behalf will actually help them; Zoink isn't going out of his way to publish bad Sony stories and Positive Wii/XBox 360 stories, those are just the stories that exist.

Re:Choices

[G3ckoG33k]

Delays, delays, choices, perspectives, and more delays. Those in my view are big factors to market presence. Choices? Yes, should I buy this or should I buy that? It is not as simple as if should I buy a Wii over a PS3, or even an Xbox360? Maybe a new bicycle, monitor, or anything else worth a few hundred dollars, depending on season; that fishing reel was just an example of something _offtopic_ that may influence your buying pattern. Releasing a product the wrong season may be bad for your product's life cycle. And if Wii comes out before Thanksgiving it probably will start Q3 2008 with a better market presence than Sony will have. BTW, as was claimed in the article, Wii was shipped from Fishkill... Sounds darn close to a fishing reel to me, even if in essence wildly OT. :)