Slashdot Mirror
Zune Won't Play Old DRM Infected Files
Spritzer writes "According to the EFF, the new Zune portable media player from Microsoft won't play files infected with the old Microsoft DRM. It seems that all of the 'PlaysforSure' media that has been sold and is currently being sold will not play on the Zune. In addition, Microsoft has now advocated violating the DMCA in order to transfer files to the player. Microsoft Zune architect J Allard was quoted as saying there's 'Lots of DVD ripping software out there that encodes to those formats, so the most popular formats out there, whether it's MPEG-4 or H.264, we'll support those.'" ZDNet offers up additional commentary on this revelation.
Does this mean we can now break Apple's DRM also?
Nothing for you to see here. Please move along.
Apparently Slashdot has jumped on the DRM bandwagon...
It seems to me that if you create a format called "PlaysForSure", it should actually "Play for Sure". OTherwise your customers might - oh, I don't know - lose confidence in your ability to compete in the market? Instead, they'll go to a certain competitor that does "Play for Sure" despite not advertising such?
It's almost as if Microsoft is reading Slashdot. Their new business plan is:
1. Create a format called "PlaysForSure"
2. Make certain that it doesn't "Play for Sure"
3. Cede 95% of the market to Apple
4. ???
5. PROFIT!
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
This is kinda dumb.. but I don't think this is something that Microsoft is alone in. This is just an example of the problems with Digital Restrictions Management. We'll see a lot more of this to come.
Join the Free Software Foundation
How about everyone not flip out about the specs on an unreleased product?
Think of the liability this opens them up to, didn't edonkey get shut down for enabling those evil hackers from trading music and movies?
Hopefully this will point to a market trend, an admission that copyrights are out of control to a large degree. I hate buying music from Itunes because of all the stupid license rules associated with it. It'd be nice to just be allowed to buy some .mp3 files and do with them as I feel. I don't even need a lossless format, my damaged ears can't tell the difference anyway.
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It's obvious Microsoft is shooting for an iTunes-ish end-to-end solution for music, a tightly integrated store+software+player solution. It's just interesting to me that URGE and Windows Media Player aren't it to them, which shows a pretty shocking lack of confidence in their own services and products, as far as the Zune is concerned.
RealNetworks and Sandisk have already stated their intent to do something similar, which reeks like all the PlaysForSure partners aren't too impressed with this move by Microsoft.
"I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar."
-Hoban Washburn
Ah look at Microsoft trying to appeal to the masses. How cute. Sounds to me more like an excuse because they have no mechanism in place for delivering media for this device.
____________________
Free iPods? Its legit. 5 of my friends got theirs. Get yours here!
Just think about it.. just how dumb do you think MS are?
I know most of you don't like DRM, but it's not infecting files. It's not a virus/trojan/whatever.
It's a lock. A digital lock. Call it Digital Restrictions Management if you must (since it stills describe what it does), but not infection.
The general public already has their hands full trying to understand all this technological mumbo-jumbo. Let's not spread more FUD.
It should be ovbious to the consumer eventually that standard, transparent formats are good.
And with opaque encrypted formats all are just as temporary as the intented player.
Well then, why don't you tell us how you would write it up Mr. Gates?
Prof. Farnsworth - "Oh a lesson in not changing history from Mr I'm-My-Own-Grandpa!"
I assume the Zune will not be stamped with the PlaysforSure logo, certifying that it is able to play those tracks. This does not compromise the validity of PlaysForSure at all -- that is merely a way for consumers to know where their media will be playable (ie which portable media players they can buy). There was no guarantee, explicit or otherwise, that these songs would play forever - only that they would play on devices that were certified PlaysForSure compatible (of which, apparently, Zune is not one).
This suggests to me that there haven't been many PlaysForSure track purchases. I suspect most people who play DRM'd WMA files subscribe to unlimited services like Yahoo Unlimited. I am such a person, and I have yet to purchase a "burnable" track.
The more you regulate a company, the worse its products become.
Microsoft really does a remarkable job of shooting themselves in the foot, don't they? It's like a frickin' comedy of errors with Microsoft's attempts to enter into the media device market.
The worst part is that their formats (WMA/WMV) have become the formats of choice for a large number of devices and services. And now those services are feeling what it's like to be a Microsoft customer. Ouch. Sorry guys, we should've told you to lube up first.
Insisting on "correct" English is like saying that there is only one, definitive recipe for chili.
It's a common theme that companies and governments want you to do things that are illegal. In fact, arguably, a lot of legislation is aimed at making things illegal that many people will be doing anyway (and, in some cases, don't have a choice): traffic laws, drug laws, decency laws, copyright laws, etc. Those sorts of laws are useful tools for selective enforcement, stronger contract negotiation positions, barriers to entry, and differential pricing.
Microsoft like DRM and the DMCA because it gives them the ability to implement differential pricing, erect bariers to entry, and have stronger negotiating positions; and they like DRM-breaking software because it makes their devices more useful. There is no contradiction in their behavior.
Of course, there is a contradiction tp their stated justifications for DRM, and it is important to bring this up prominently whenever Congress reconsiders DRM-related legislation.
Why again do people still buy hardware with DRM at all? There are still plenty of products from the States and other countries which do not have these limitations.
Funnypics
So the next person to be taken to court for violation of copyright should claim that it was Microsoft's idea, they told me it would be OK to do it.
I knew it was only a matter of time before this type stuff started happening to DRM. With the DCMA backing up DRM and the vendor lockin to players, it will not be long before congress steps in and makes some changes. Just wait until one of there kids has an issue with it.
Cry bias all you want, but Zune's lack of ability to play PlaysForSure content is completely preposterous. This is the absolute, objective truth.
I have seen the future, and it is inconvenient.
I hate buying music from Itunes because of all the stupid license rules associated with it.
Then don't do it. Even if you dislike doing it, each time you purchase tainted music files you're giving a show of support for DRM. Not only that, but it's financial support you're offering, which is perhaps the worst kind, as it directly allows for their deviant behavior to continue.
We know that DRM-encumbered media has many disadvantages. This Zune nonsense is a perfect example of that. So the best thing to do is to stop buying music from iTunes. Don't start buying music from whatever service Microsoft might offer. Don't buy CDs. Don't download MP3s.
What you should do is get involved with your local music scene. Get to know the bands and artists in your area, or the nearest city. Many times they're far more deserving of your financial support than the multimillionaire fucks in California, and their music is often so much better! Not only that, but you can interact with them personally, and possibly even collaborate with them to some extent (if you're a musician yourself). The best part of it all is that you're getting to listen to some decent music, and you're not supporting corrupt companies and DRM, but rather you're supporting your neighbors.
Microsoft, meet the devil. RIAA, meet The Borg. lock 'em both in a room and wait for the noise to die down before looking to see if anything survived ;)
if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
If you buy aggressively DRM'd media, they'll find yourself having to buy it again, break the law, or go without when it stops working years later.
Why can't there be legal format conversions? Why can't MS (and other DRM happy companies) release a tool that converts "old" DRMed media to "new" DRMed media...still locked to the same computer. (I realize there are other complicated permuations of DRM like getting data off of a DVD in any manner, but in terms of online purchased, DRMed media...) Wouldn't it only be "circumventing" if it stripped the DRM? I realize media companies have no incentive to do that willingly, but if MS and other compatibility challenged hardware manufacturers are serious about marketing the Zune et al., actually solving this problem for their customers would seem like an obvious step.
Although it's not the smartest tactical move, it does make some sense that Zune won't play PlaysForSure content, as it guarantees some additional revenue (beyond the PlaysForSure licensing fees MS charges those other vendors) as customers are forced to use the MS music store. It will also make customer support much more straightforward; having every aspect of this music device from a single vendor will ensure a better user experience. Personally, I think the addition of PlaysForSure would have been an effective selling point, and could have helped MS get a foot in the market's door. On the other hand, those other music services haven't been too successful, so it isn't that big of a penalty.
While the decision will surely harm MS in the short term, and completely alienate all the other PlaysForSure software and hardware licensees (probably killing the format), it would definitely improve MS's long-term prospects, assuming it isn't pulled off the market after a year of dismal sales. If history is any indication, MS will stick with it, keep improving their offerings, and eventually have something that appeals to the lowest common denominator on the market.
"I like systems, their application excepted", George Sand (French)
...then shut the door again 'til you're sure the other one's dead, too.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
One part of me wants to be reasonable and compare this to the natura evolution of data formats, like taking IFF files from teh Amiga and making them into SNDs for the Mac and then making those into AIFFs and then converting those to FLACS...
The other part wants to laugh like a pirate on nitrous oxide. And that's the part that's winning right now.
This is exactly why I still buy CD's. I have control over my music (when there isn't a rootkit on the CD of course). I can do what I want with it. I can rip it into unlimited types of formats...and its all DRM free. Plus, I have a backup in case something happens to the files. A new, cool, small footprint, lossless format is devised? Just re-rip the CD and press onward.
I wonder why slashdotters make comments disparaging the monicker "PlayForSure". It is named correctly and it works as designed. The problem seems to be that slashdotters think "PlayForSure" means the songs the chumps bought will play for sure. Nah. Common misunderstanding. Play for sure, simply means, MSFT will play these chumps who buy DRMed music for sure, play them like a fiddle, shake them down for music they have already bought.
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
I had a look at the article and it seems to base the supposition that Zune won't support PlayForSure content on it not being explicitly mentioned in the footnotes of a press release. Given that Microsoft isn't totally stupid, I'm guessing that this is an oversight in the release, rather than a very subtle admission that zune won't be compatible with their own technology.
I hope that I'm wrong about this, as it would be too funny if the Zune couldn't play DRMed music.
You are thinking of "infection" only in the biological meaning. Wrong. According to wordreference.com, infection can mean:
moral corruption or contamination;
So, depending on the point of view, DRM can be an infection.
LEGAL DISCLAIMER: English isn't my first language. Actually, it's my third language.
So say we all
I don't understand why Microsoft didn't, or doesn't provide something similar to they were rumored to provide for iPod owners.
Why can't the Zune store recognize that that you own a PlaysForSure-protected version of a music title, and allow you to download the same title in Zune-protected format at no charge?
"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!
This heres a story about billy gates and stevie ballmer Two young lovers with nothin better to do Than sit around the house, get high, and listen to zune And here is what happened when they decided to cut loose They headed up that microsoft, the biggest castle The best at creating for us a great big hassle Billy Gates rockin out, waving his (high school) tassel Stevie Ballmer wants to take your money and run Come on take my money and run Come on take my money and run Come on take my money and run Come on take my money and run G.W. only know he's from texas You know he knows just opposite what the facts is He's gonna let those two escape justice He makes his livin off of the peoples taxes Stevie Ballmer, whoa, whoa, gots to get paid Billy Gates plays xbox all of every day They got our money, hey You know they got away They head up the market until the monopoly gives way Singin come on take my money and run Come on take my money and run Come on take my money and run Come on take my money and run Come on take my money and run Come on take my money and run Come on take my money and run
i support the right to offend.
Of all the days...
Microsoft, you scurvy dogs!
Summation 2
From the Article: Buried in footnote 4 of its press release, Microsoft clearly states that "Zune software can import audio files in unprotected WMA, MP3, AAC; photos in JPEG; and videos in WMV, MPEG-4, H.264" -- protected WMA and WMV (not to mention iTunes DRMed AAC) are conspicuously absent.
In other words they are drawing conclusions from two missing entries that may turn out to be typos or may be missing for a reason other than compatibility. Just another FUD-laden EFF article.
Where the hell is my damn -1 WRONG modifier? ANY attempt to circumvent the WEAKEST of encryption (css ispretty freaking weak) without the consent of the copyright holder is a criminal offense in the USA. And just to make matters totally STUPID, its a felony to boot. Thank you DMCA.
I had a good sig once... but I smoked it...
Q. Where is Zune going to fit in with people's pre-existing media libraries? What is it going to support? What can we expect when we actually get a Zune and want to be able to use it with the media that we currently have?
A Lots of DVD ripping software out there that encodes to those formats, so the most popular formats out there, whether it's MPEG-4 or H.264, we'll support those.
Q When PlaysForSure was introduced, the premise was, we make it simple so that you don't have to worry about whether your player works with the music you're purchasing...
A. We've also found that there's a category of customers that say, "Give me a brand experience, advertise it to me on television; I want to be part of the digital music revolution, and that solution [PlaysForSure] doesn't work for me." So they're two complementary solutions -- not everyones gonna want Zune and not everyone's gonna want PlaysForSure. They're different paths there, and we're okay with both of them.
Extracts from The Engadget Interview: J Allard, Microsoft Corporate Vice President
Reduce, reuse, cycle
No, don't do that! I played Doom in the 90's, I *know* what happens when demons get borgified! Get me a rocketlauncher quick, before the Cyberdemon spawns!
There is no mod option "-1: Disagree" for a reason. "Overrated" is not an acceptable substitute. Post something instead.
Suppose I release a CD (I have; many in fact) and it is manufactured and distributed by a label. As usual, I get to keep lots of copies of the cd for sales and distribution as I see fit. But let's say - for kicks - I bought one of my own songs from Napster. Now I want to transfer it to Zune. Based on this DRM crap...
I am not legally allowed to listen to that copy of my own song on Zune.
????
I call it Draconian Restrictions on Media. And it's not a trojan, but it is a virus. The requirement to use approved software to read media which you have paid for is ridiculous.
When said software executes (which you can't prevent if you're running Windows), it does actually infect your media files. It prevents you from reading files you created with any other software. And that is an infection.
But the objection to DRM is much, much worse than merely wanting to play music in your car.
The whole RIAA/DMCA crap is just a cover for one Microsoft-sponsored ploy - to enforce using particular software for any particular reason. It's what Palladium is about. And once They are able to arbitrary change the restrictions on what you, the computer user, can do, you have lost any freedom you may have once had. Mandatory software can do anything it wants; including spying on you, logging keys and phoning home.
Imagine your computer had a built-in camera which you were unable to turn off due to the DMCA - you might, say, be recording what's on screen with a video camera and selling the resulting discs on eBay, and we wouldn't want that. Imagine everything you do is then recorded and analysed by the NSA, just in case you might be a thoughtcriminal. The word of the day is terrorist, but you can just as easily substitute paedophile (the Lovejoy argument) or whoever is today's Emmanuel Goldstein.
Big Brother is here, in the form of Palladium. And that is why DRM is evil.
Legitimate enforcement of copyright laws are patent infringement lawsuits . . .
Burbank, we have a problem.
KFG
Aye, why do Me suddenly feel the need t' pirate some mo'ies?
Because tis' Talk Like a Pirate Day. Gar, Where can I find a bottle o'rum?
"...today consumers have been conditioned to think of beer when they see a bullfrog..."
...snort....giggle...
None of them can see the clouds; The polished wings don't care.
And what do you suggest for people who cannot see local bands because all the venues where local bands routinely play forbid people under the age of 21 from entering the premises?
"Plays for sure.... psyche!"
"Plays for now."
"Plays for as long as we feel like it."
"Sure it plays. Trust us."
We all know that Microsoft is contradicting themselves. We know their position is flat-out wrong here. But I sure hope a lawyer/judge sees this.
http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
For those wanting a nice solution for the Mac, that doesn't need any hax0r skills: http://handbrake.m0k.org/ .
:)
I don't get anything for sharing this with you, I just like the software. Oh and its open source
Jumpstart the tartan drive.
I'm hardly what you'd call a Microsoft fan-boy (I'm not even a Microsoft user), but I'm not seeing where it says that it can't play this stuff. I haven't seen any confirmation from the horse's mouth. I mean, this is all coming from a footnote in a PR document which says:
It doesn't say that other applications can't put protected music onto the device, nor does it say that it can't play that stuff. It just says that the built-in software can't do it. Which makes sense, really, because it would imply that Microsoft is ready, willing and able to break the protection applied by a partnering online music store. That's pretty nasty, even for a "stab your partner" company like them.Of course, that won't make it much of an iTunes killer. "Oh, you want to import music from some other store. Okay.... open their player app, and see if they'll let you export each individual piece of media to the Zune. Including the stuff you ripped from CD and it helpfully 'protected' for you. Then, if you're lucky and they haven't changed the terms and conditions or you've moved computers or devices or something..."
Log in or piss off.
Again, this post needs a -1 WRONG mod. regular cds do not have DRM on them, are not "protected" and it is NOT a violation of any (US american) law to platform shift the media contained therein. The part of the DRM equation that makes things illegal is the clause in the DMCA (Digital Millenium Copyright Act) that says it is illegal to circumvent copyright protection. That would mean it is now a CRIMINAL offense (Felony to boot) to DECRYPT copyrighted works or to REMOVE DRM from any copyrighted works. Unless of course, you have permission from the copyright owner.
I had a good sig once... but I smoked it...
My bad.
This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
I hate the idea of the DMCA as much as the next person, but I do think the story is sensationalising matters.
The text of the DMCA {as I have seen it -- I am no American} seems clearly to state that it does not prejudice anybody's right to Fair Use. As long as there is a ruling somewhere that format shifting constitutes fair use, the DMCA has not changed this.
Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
Ahoy, IANAL, but isn't thar a compatibility clause in the DMCA? How might it apply t' this?
"...today consumers have been conditioned to think of beer when they see a bullfrog..."
Microsoft clearly states that "Zune software can import audio files in unprotected WMA, MP3, AAC; photos in JPEG; and videos in WMV, MPEG-4, H.264" -- protected WMA and WMV (not to mention iTunes DRMed AAC) are conspicuously absent.......
So I guess the moral is to steal everything you want before moving to Zune? It looks to me like they care a whole lot more about establishing yet another incompatible de facto standard than they do about whether people are pirating stuff.
I would go so far as to say that 'Trojan' is the perfect description. Lets see:
* The recipient and suppler are in a long term conflict
* The suppler is hiding something nasty inside of an attractive piece of art
* Many of the pieces of art are actually "Given" to the recipient
* Most recipients do not know or understand that this weapon is inside their piece of art.
* The suppler is hoping that they can sneak their weapon into the recipients home so that they can win this conflict once and for all.
"so we'll play AAC natively." Quote from J. Allard in Engadget http://www.engadget.com/2006/09/14/the-engadget-in terview-j-allard-microsoft-corporate-vice-presi/
Ahoy as well, IANAL either, but from what I have read the compatility clauses cover reverse engineering only. You are still not allowed to strip the protection off the media.
I had a good sig once... but I smoked it...
If that what you write about (first partnering with makers of portable music players than abandoning them as soon as all the "cool stuff" has been learned and "their own" device is almost ready) turns out to be true, then it would be just re-performance of Microsoft's "old trick".
Something similar happened with joint development of Next Generation Windows (a.k.a. Windows NT) by duo Microsoft+IBM: they started together with IBM doing a lot of important work on modern (by that time) 32-bit, multitasking, etc., etc. operating system later being picked up by Microsoft with IBM being left alone strugling to make something off of the past effort by trying to sell OS/2.
I'm sure others will add more examples.
Microsoft is so far very consistent in its actions.
That being said, everybody should be very wary about partnering with Microsoft on anything unless some very big changes happen inside that company.
hany
I'm no knee jerk anti-drm demon here because I'm really trying to look at this in an agnostic way. This really bites for consumers and really instills a real lack of confidence in the whole scheme of content devices. Not only does the DRM itself kind of lock you into certain vendors, but now there is no guarantee that the content will work on a device from the same vendor. Honest to goodness I was considering a Zune, mostly because I didn't want to get an iPod because it was the trendy thing to do. But after looking at the options, I know without a doubt that the Zune is not for me. This, because of the latest news on how its tentacles get wrapped around your non-DRM files, AND there's really no way for me to be sure that MS will change its mind AGAIN about the future compatibility of its own file formats. What am I to do? I want to get an iPod, but I'm not not sure they are the answer either because now I can't be sure that if I buy music through iTunes that it won't break someday either. It seems to me that if I still want to buy legitimate music from iTunes, I need to get a pirated counterpart in a non-restricted format like MP3 or ogg, etc. so that as devices wax and wane, I'm still able to listen to my tunes...which really kinda defeats the purpose of going legit.
Even for someone who's tech savvy, the uncertainty is disconcerting...
We're all hypocrites. We all have hidden parts, it's the contrast between them that make us more a hypocrite than others
"Cry bias all you want, but Zune's lack of ability to play PlaysForSure content is completely preposterous. This is the absolute, objective truth."
The "bias" is that there's no real proof that it won't support it, and, in fact, almost certainly will support it. The whole issue comes from a list of "additionally supported formats," meaning in addition to protected WMA and WMV. This whole thing is just an excuse for people to complain about Microsoft.
Remember kids, tin foil doesn't work, so use LeadHat.
If history is any indication, MS will stick with it, keep improving their offerings, and eventually have something that appeals to the lowest common denominator on the market.
If history is any indication, MS will abandon it for something else when they think it convenient, just like they're doing with Plays For Sure.
Plays for Sure = Plays maybe. Gotta love it.
This is exactly what you should expect from M$. Yes, they are going to encourage people to "steal" other people's copyrighted material and break the laws they promoted. From their point of view, this is natural. M$ has been the primary benefactor of software "piracy" all along. They thought that DRM was the same thing, just another "speedbump" to keep "honest users" paying. Wink wink, "steal" Windoze, photoshop and autocad they want you to know how to use it! Sounds familiar? The problem for them here is that the primary rightsholders in this case, the RIAA, is bigger than anything M$ has been up against yet. They are also more important for media players. If they get away with it, it's only because they came to an agreement with big media.
I don't think that the RIAA is that smart. They demanded DRM to lock out competition and expand their little broadcast and physical media monopoly into cyberspace. The way they see it, Microsoft has just crossed the line between being a promoter of that monopoly and an a competitor making money by copying ancient recordings. The only worse thing M$ can do is promote "unsigned" bands and dilute the top 40 rip off.
None of this will be pleasant for users. DRM will be the pain it's supposed to be. Users will have to creep around "pirate" sites to find the software they need to do the conversion. What they find will be a cesspool booby trapped by the music industry and spammers. Then the RIAA might come and sue them too.
The best thing that can happen is for people to circumvent all of the greed heads. Musicians can go with less greedy promoters and users can buy unencumbered music from them and all this non free shit can die.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
What, don't like the truth? This device adds DRM to non-DRM files even. I'd say that's infection.
Infection is an excellent term. It's something everyone can understand. It sure beats "Digital Restrictions Management", which always gets abbreviated to the lifelessly bland "DRM".
We should all make a point of using the term "infected". Get RMS on board; I think he'd love the term. Use the term in any blog you find. Use the term when sending "letters to the editor" or otherwise talking with the press.
We have a new weapon: "infected"
Bryan Lee, Corporate VP/CFO, Entertainment and Devices Division clearly states in the interview:
this signature has been removed due to a DMCA takedown notice
More like the G'oul vs the Wrath
You seem to have missed your lession in quantum mechanics - you can't EVER be sure the other one's dead. So best lock the damn thing up for eternity and pretend nothing's in there.
As I understand it, in the State of Indiana, no minors are permitted in a bar whatsoever, whether they are accompanied by a parent or guardian or not. It's more like the MPAA's rules for NC-17 movies than for R movies. The older person would have to order the food as carry-out and deliver it to the minor waiting outside the premises.
That works only for 18 to 20 year olds, who can vote but not enter bars, not 13 to 17 year olds, who cannot vote.
Were you under the impression that all 50 states have excise statutes that allow licensed bars to admit minors to even part of the premises? Or did you mean "leave the state"?
I guess Plays for Sure doesn't actually play for sure.
Sunwalker Dezco for Warchief in 2016
Read this, then re-post.
concrete5: a cms made for marketing, but strong enough for geeks.
the DMCA does not have a fair use exemption. If it did, I don't think anyone would care about the DMCA, and people like the guy who was arrested for making an Acrobat reader for blind people, etc. would not have been bothered.
If it is indeed allowed to do this, then where is the LEGAL software to do things that are "fair use" with DRM'd data? It doesn't exist.
are y'all telling me that the latest MS ripoff of someone else's thing is a pile of krap?
that it won't do what it's supposed to?
you people just can't indentify a awesomely cool innovation when you see one.
I think the point was that they are a legitimate distributor that "plays for sure", since they distribute mp3s without DRM. But I must question your "spy/adware" comment...
First of all, there is a difference, between spyware and adware.
Secondly, I've been using their service for almost a year and have never had adware pushed on me. Frankly, the first site's description of the adware looked like shortcuts to sign up for their services. "Desktop and start menu links"? Come on...
I'm not even sure how accurate this information is. It was last updated almost a year ago. I do have an option to uninstall the eMusic download manager. And if you're concerned about your personal information being shared you can opt out. Most people do not seem to have a problem with is, as eMusic is the second largest legitimate download service.
Also, how do they "push" these files to you? Based on the links you provided it sounds more like Winamp and other free software are bundling these shortcuts to help support their business.
I will say that I hate spyware, adware, and malware as much as the next guy, but it sounds like you're mostly spreading FUD here. I like eMusic and haven't had any problems with adware from them. Do you work for Apple?
I stand corrected then. Sounds like they're drying to directly mimic the iPod. Interesting.
Remember kids, tin foil doesn't work, so use LeadHat.
While that may be technically true, I consider all of it to be annoying crapware and therefore treat all of it equally.
------ hi mom
Nobody is forcing you yet. Until Vista-logo PC's ship with TCPA chips which do actively prevent you from running Linux; when it's impossible to buy a PC without being required to use Microsoft DRM pre-infected and unremovable - then it will be too late.
You can vote with your dollars all you want; just remember that if you do, Microsoft will have several billion votes more that you.
And from EEF,zdnet and Slahsdot. Who would have guessed?
Microsoft has not said that it will not work with protected DRM. They simply say inthe press release
Import your music. Zune software can automatically import your existing music, pictures and videos from iTunes and Windows Media® Player in a variety of formats, including your existing playlists and song ratings, as permitted by the online service from which it was purchased.4
and then the footnote says that it will play non encrypted content as well. The quote about advocating the use of DVD rippers makes it seem as if microsoft is not allowing protected video content. Thats crap. The quote was ment to reassure people that it would support non protected formats as well. In addition to. This whole story is crap, without a direct coment from microsoft directly answering the question at hand. You wouldn't accept this kind of reporting from microsoft or its allies about open source, so why accept a lower quality of journalism from the other side?
Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
-by Yvan256 (722131)
Now lets look at what I just read the ISP's are saying about net neutrality:
-Paid for by The National Cable & Telecom Assn. (source link)
ISNT IT FUNNY that the same language would be used by both parties here? I guess its *possible* that there is not a gurella marketing firm responsible for both this video and also this slashdot post, but isn't it quite interesting that they should argue for similar draconian control viewpoints AND use the same exact language?
I don;t know how common this phrase is in the USA but reading both of these posts within thirty minutes of eachother and not having previously run across the phrase for months, makes me highly suspicious of the motivations here.
Thats a bit too coincidental for me. Sorry mr telcom shill, your gonna have to register a new slashdot ID now because we are watching you!
I'll just use my special getting high powers one more time...
It's getting so bad now that they're almost stepping on their own toes trying to get around something that they did earlier and is now carrying the potential for self-incrimination... at the expense of trying to "own" the media player market now.
:-)
What a trip! This is going to be fun to watch. I personally will not buy such a device since my belief is that it will be built as crappy as my kid's XBox. I will still stick by the iPod.
Come on Micro$oft. the only way you'll disseminate and conquer is to go in and try to do a hostile take-over on Apple...
Cheers
All content in this message is copyright (c) 2008. All rights reserved. RIAA is prohibited here.
> Instead, they'll go to a certain competitor that does "Play for Sure" despite not advertising such?
No, Apple will be noticably quiet on this one, lest anyone notice their own antics. They are doing exactly the same thing.
FairPlay: Only plays stuff purchased from the iTunes store on Apple iPods (and a few rebadged units during their brief foray into rebadging)
PlaysForSure: Only plays content from a hodge podge assortment of third rate websites on a motley assortment of third rate hardware. (Microsoft's PR spin anyway, personally I like the look of some of the PlaysForSure encumbered units, and nobody sez you HAVE to use the DRM ya know.)
Zune DRM: Only plays content purchased from the Microsoft store on Microsoft branded players.
All are building walled gardens, the only twist is Microsoft backstabbing their prior 'partners' in the PlaysForSure consortium, but they ALWAYS betray their partners and those guys should have seen it coming.
Democrat delenda est
Copyright infringement is not an element of the offenses defined in 1201(a) and (b), so 1201(c)(1) is totally irrelevant to those offenses. Those two sections direct the Librarian of Congress to assess the chilling effect and grant exemptions for specific noninfringing uses, which would be unnecessary if infringement were a prerequisite for those offenses. Members of Congress have introduced bills which would extend the fair use defense to DMCA violations, which also would be superfluous if it already implicitly applied.
(originally posted here)
What is this D-ARRR-M ye speak of? It sounds like a fine technology for a pirate like myself! Arrrr!
Oh, wait...
Users: This is a big screw you to the consumers who thought they were buying the warm and cuddly microsoft guarantee of play4sure. The dutifully bought music under microsofts play4sure. But then microsoft releases a new player which won't work with their old music. Their old player won't work with the new music solution.
HW builders: Microsoft DRM partners must be smiling as well. Paying microsoft a licence fee for DRM, that won't let thier playes work with microsofts new service. Some of these folks were unahappy that Apple wouldn't let them in. Think how happy they must be now that the partner they pay their DRM money to, won't let them in either.
Music Services: Alternate music services are also paying DRM money to microsoft to get into the music selling echosystem. Only to see microsoft release a hot player (simply becuase of marketing clout) that won't work with their system they pay microsoft for.
I think the message is simple. Partner/trust microsoft and they will burn you at the very first opportunity.
i think there's too much legislation and policy proventing something like zune being a success. iether the law has to be changed, or these kind of features are going to have to be relegated to products that aren't designed specifically as music players. iether you end up sending too many items in a day for the record companies to sleep at night, or the item becomes completely limited and doesn't live up to the hype or expectations of its users. bit of a crap compromise. i suppose the consolation is that microsoft have ploughed that much money into the product and will inevitably have a 10-15 year business plan almost ensuring that the zune name, or whatever microsoft wishes to call it, will be a relative success. ... and i have just ordered an 80gb iPod... just to make my stance clear!
The US Copyright Office has this to say about the matter (this document is, BTW, the very first hit which Google returns on a search for "DMCA", so your ignorance is not excused)
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
Sounds to me like Microsoft is making a mockery of themselves.. "PlaysForSure" yup that's a good name let's use it!
I went to eat some animal crackers and the box said, "Do not eat if seal is broken." I opened the box and sure enough..
Good thing this came to light before anyone spent money on buying a Zune. I guess, if you posess (not own, but just posess mind you) a big library of DRM-ed files, you could be smart about it and not buy a player that doesn't support it.
Of course, if you were stupid enough to shell out money for DRM-ed files, you might be stupid enough to buy an incompatible player too.
Sig erased via substitution of an identical one.
Yes. Interesting... and preposterous.
I have seen the future, and it is inconvenient.
Rental just doesn't work for music, as many people here happily point out. It is nice for movies, seeing as the studios seem very reluctant to lower full-length hollywood movie purchase prices below $20. $2-$3 a night is still a bit 7-11 to Blockbuster's supermarket, but more competition and more volume will undoubtedly lower that price over time. If movie purchase prices go lower than $10 across the board, then rental may even start to go away altogether.
So, does the idea of a subscription movie service sound a little better now? (I know, I'm on Slashdot. This is just asking for flamage, isn't it? :))
Personally, I'd rather take my 20000+ legally downloaded tracks from Urge (and still scratching the surface) for $15/month over paying $20000+ to Apple. If/when I ever unsubscribe to Urge, I will know exactly which tracks to actually buy, if necessary.
"There is only one thing more painful than learning from experience, and that is not learning from experience."
Secondly, I've been using their service for almost a year and have never had adware pushed on me.
I really hate to tell you that but... well... you know those porn ads in your e-banking interface?
They really are not supposed to be there.
Uh, that would be called "importing". See title 17, section 1201, (a)(2) http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode17/u
Just because people aren't arrested for it doesn't mean its not illegal. Its more of an enforcement problem, but thats not my point.
Weren't most of the PlaysForSure music stores rental systems anyway? Just stop making payments.
-Darkshadow (There was a thing called Heaven; but all the same they used to drink enormous quantities of alcohol.)
So, why did you say "I hat buying music from iTunes" if you don't buy music from iTunes?
... and then they built the supercollider.
Like 90% of the Zune's target market, I do not live in the United States of America.
Why shouldn't Microsoft encourage behaviour (ripping DVDs you own for personal use) which is legal in many countries? In the UK ripping DVDs you own is as legal as ripping CDs you own - that is to say it is technically illegal, but officially tolerated. The record labels are lobbying for a loosening of the law, it's that absurd.
Yes, in the UK all copying (other than academic fair use - no format shifting permissible here) is illegal without the permission of the copyright holder. Yes all owners of iPods in the country that contain music purchased on CD or other physical format are breaking the law.
as a completely disinterested third party (I'm not even american, so your funny laws don't bother me much) the line you've quoted reads like a distribution model. If I read it correctly, it's as though they speak of bringing bulk items into the country and then trying to market, sell or otherwise distribute to the public. Would this then mean that Joe Average who downloads a single copy of "DRMbegone.exe" is classed as an importer? I wouldn't have thought so, but then thats one for the legal profession to decide.
Would this then mean that Joe Average who downloads a single copy of "DRMbegone.exe" is classed as an importer?
No, of course not. The US Constitution limits our Federal Government's authority in such matters "To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States...," and downloading a freeware piece of software isn't commerce. But then again, our courts frequently ignore clear plain language, and define things to be whatever they want (which typically gives the Federal government more power - it's foxes guarding the henhouse). The courts have said that growing marijuana at home is "interstate commerce."
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
Everyone here seems to have already subscribed to this implied notion that a DAP, by definition, can only decrypt DRM of a single standard.
But think about it rationally--Why should Zune's firmware necessarily be so limited? Your computer can obviously run multiple DRMed players, so what evidence do we have that Zune's embedded OS won't be able to select from multiple encryption standards as easily as any DAP selects the appropriate codec to read an MP3 or WMA?
Your mind is clear / The things that you fear / Will fade with how much you / Believe what you hear
I agree, they shouldn't be classified as an importer, but my problem is that the DMCA allows other laws to be twisted into strange things. So, maybe if you straight download a file you can't be classified as an importer, but what if you download it into the shared directory of your P2P software and automatically share it with other americans? Or what if you download it with BitTorrent? Since the DMCA makes what the foreign distributor is doing a felony, are you aiding a felon? What if they decide to impound your computers, etc. as evidence against the foreign distributor for a year or two?
What if net neutrality doesn't go our way? Can/must the telcos provide 1 bit/day bandwidth from any non-DMCA-compliant countries?
Should we be relying on another country's lack of stupid laws to preserve our country's freedoms?
I think everybody got it wrong. You lock the Borg in a room with the devil and you are creating something infinitely worse. "Resistance is futile. Prepare to go to hell" =P +R
+Raider of the lost BBS
You're mistaken. CSS and other DRM schemes are considered access controls under the DMCA. The "authorized" way to gain access to a CSS-protected work is to play it in a licensed DVD player which can enforce things like Macrovision, region coding, and P-UOPs as required by the CSS license. If you circumvent CSS to access it another way, you're gaining unauthorized access. See MGM v. 321 Studios, for example:
Finally, from the text of the law itself:
You don't have access to the copyrighted movie stored on a DVD until you decrypt it; decrypting it without the authority of the copyright holder is circumvention; and if you aren't licensed by the DVD CCA to use a CSS key, you don't have that authority.
Visual IRC: Fast. Powerful. Free.
That link is really useful. Thank you.
A community-oriented lyrics site
I like the concept, but I see it a bit, how can I put it?, upsetting...
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Practically any website in the UK takes your credit card before giving you access to a promotional offer. Amazon, Ebay, HMV, you name it, they do it.
So either you are an Alien whose veins are filled with acid and that just landed on planet Earth, or you are being horrifcally pedantic.
This site, and the internet in general are full of reviews about emusic, so your nonsense about it being an scam site reflects more about your laziness that about a bussiness trying to provide a legitimate service. Because I suppose you did contact them in order for them to change this? Did you? No? Oh well...
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
There is a counter that is visible when you login....
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Who in the devil's briefcase ever says, "advertise to me on television"???? I am absolutely mystified by this. WTF???
(...with the possible exception of late-night ads for questionable, shall we say, "personal services"...)
"What in the name of Fats Waller is that?"
"A four-foot prune."
It's quite obvious what this is :)
Please, for the good of Humanity, vote Obama.
A Goa'uld(not G'oul) can be removed from its host(although if it's been in there a long time the host will end up as a scam artist) and a Wraith(not Wrath) can be (unreliably) made into a human. I don't think the same thing can be done with the RIAA and Microsoft. ;)
Please, for the good of Humanity, vote Obama.