Any Prospect of Serenity Sequel Quashed

Shadowruni writes "According to IGN.com, there will be no sequel to Serenity." Update: 10/07 01:31 GMT by Z : As enjerth pointed out below, this is not 100% accurate. Don't believe IGN, is the lesson. Here's the word from the man himself: "I turn my back for five minutes (that's how long it takes to admire my lovely back) and the interweb goes banoonoos! Isn't there any ACTUAL news to get wrong? Sorry about all this; it might be best if I just stay off the computer for a while ... The brain place is crowded with goods, ideas, sequels, spinoffs, animated versions, miniseries, radio dramas -- this is just the used goods. All the new wares are in there as well and it's deafening. Once I create a verse I never let go of it. And figuring out how much of my energy should be devoted to reawakening the projects you all love with the actors and characters I all love, and how much should be forging ahead and creating entirely new works (which you are contractually obligated to love) is exhausting."

Comments

Damn.

[Saedrael]

I think that sums it up pretty well.

Re:Damn.

[Disavian]

I think this is more there are no plans for a sequel. That doesn't mean he can't come back to it five years from now, if he needs to. Nobody would permanently trash an opportunity that big.

Re:Damn.

[Anonymous Coward]

No it doesn't. All that was said is they are not working on a sequel at the moment. He didn't rule it out in the future. The title of this submission is totally misleading.

Re:Damn.

[DrJimbo]

I think you meant: Gorram!

Re:Damn.

[Tackhead]

> I think this is more there are no plans for a sequel. That doesn't mean he can't come back to it five years from now, if he needs to. Nobody would permanently trash an opportunity that big.

The Serenity sequel is like a leaf on the wind. Leaf on the wi***CRUNCH***

Re:Damn.

[Secret Rabbit]

Actually, all Joss said was that there is no sequel in the works RIGHT NOW.

Please note that this does NOT mean that there is never be one.

Re:Damn.

[RayDude]

I had really hoped that the reason Sci_Fi canceled SG1 was to funnel money to Joss and Firefly. Bummer really. Raydude

Re:Damn.

[Anonymous Coward]

Frak you. You can stop with your felgercarb any time you want.

Re:Damn.

[WhoBeDaPlaya]

You can take that and stick it up your pigu! :P (Man is their Mandarin horrible)

Re:Damn.

[mdkathon]

Who cares. He killed Wash. Which made baby jeebus cry. I'd rather not see more stuff out of this "verse" unless it is a new cast, storyline, etc. Isn't anyone else sick of the re-hashing of cancelled/old series(B5/ST/SW/BSG); Do we want to be sold another unoriginal "just add cute girl here" sci-fi series. Okay, so almost all TV is like that, but we have so many great Sci-Fi books that there should be more original screenplays based of something we have not seen over-and-over. As much as I want to like stuff like the new BSG, the writing, the shallow story line, it's all horrible, but it's BSG and people seem to be okay with just shoving the important stuff to the side because that blond is hot and shiny robots will always be "in". We had a gift with Firefly which I hope ended with Serenity.

Re:Damn.

[WilliamSChips]

Hammer and Stern canceled SG-1 to funnel money into ECW.

aw man

[codexile]

That's really too bad. All of my favorite shows keep getting crushed and destroyed. Wonderfalls, Firefly, The Super Mario Brothers Super Show. *sigh*

Re:aw man

[Anonymous Coward]

Peter: "Everybody I've got bad news. We've been cancelled."
Lois: "Oh no Peter! How could they do that?"
Peter: "Well unfortuantely Lois, there's just no more room on the schedule. We just gotta accept the fact that FOX has to make room for terrific shows like Dark Angel, Titus, Undeclared, Action, That 80's Show, Wonder Falls, Fast Lane, Andy Richter Controls The Universe, Skin, Girl's Club, Cracking Up, The Pitts, Firefly, Get Real, Freaky Links, Wanda At Large, Costello, The Lone Gunman, A Minute with Stan Hooper, Normal Ohio, Pasadena, Harsh Realm, Keen Eddy, The Street, American Embassy, Cedric The Entertainer, The Tick, Louie, And Greg The Bunny...."
Lois: "Is there no hope?"
Peter: "Well I suppose if ALL those shows go down the tubes we might have a shot."

Re:aw man

[DoorFrame]

Wonderfalls was great.

Also, Skin? "His father is the District Attorney!"

The do something else!

[TrippTDF]

Joss has been kinda quiet lately. I'd love to see a new series. Or, better yet, get involved with the new Star Wars shows on the horizon.

Re:The do something else!

[wangmaster]

He's been quiet in the video front, but he's been authoring a very kick ass x-men title, and from what I understand starting early next year, he'll be writing a Buffy comic taking place after the events of the end of the tv show.

He hasn't entirely dropped off :)

Re:The do something else!

[Dance_Dance_Karnov]

He is doing something else, he works for Marvel. He currently writes Astonishing X-men, and will be taking over Runaways starting with issue 25.

Re:The do something else!

[TychoCelchuuu]

He's writing the Wonder Woman movie, then after that he has a movie called "Goners." This is in addition to his X-Men comics.

OK

[geekoid]

lets get on with the next thing.

So is that not shiny, or dull?

He also made it clear . . .

[taustin]

. . . there's no reason it couldn't happen. It just isn't happening now, and is less likely as time goes by.

Re:He also made it clear . . .

[Anonymous Brave Guy]

Without giving spoilers for anyone who didn't see Serenity, I think there are several pretty clear reasons that it couldn't carry on, at least not with anything like the same atmosphere as the original Firefly series.

Re:He also made it clear . . .

[hoggoth]

> Without giving spoilers for anyone who didn't see Serenity, I think there are several pretty clear reasons that it couldn't carry on, at least not with anything like the same atmosphere as the original Firefly series

Hey, speaking of no-more-Firefly-ever... I would really like Joss Whedon to reveal what 'Book's big secret was. The movie didn't reveal it, and we will never find out now...

Re:He also made it clear . . .

[Son.Of.Dad]

well the allusion was that Book was one of those 'no names' like the chica in Firefly and the dude in Serenity. (hope that wasn't a spoiler). Serenity Firefly. Why do that to one of my favorite characters from the series? And why trash his dialogue so handily? And why, out of nowhere do that with River? I mean, yeah, we were gonna get there in like season 2...damned Fox. Long live Jayne!

Re:He also made it clear . . .

[sammy baby]

Long live Jayne!

Jayne!

A man they called Jayne!

Our love for him ain't hard to exp... nevermind.

Re:He also made it clear . . .

[Son.Of.Dad]

exactly.
You get it, gorram!

Fair enough...

[n9uxu8]

No sequel...I get it...so tell me about the prequel you are working on... Dave

Re:Fair enough...

[teslar]

You got it

"Yeah... that went well..."

Re:Fair enough...

[Guppy06]

Do we really need to see Mal as a drunken frat boy?

"My dad owns a car dealership!"

Re:Fair enough...

[n9uxu8]

No...but maybe Kaylie as a drunken sorority girl...

Re:Fair enough...

[Anonymous Coward]

Hell, I'd like to see them _all_ as schlitzed sorority girls.

oh wait.

(and yes, I know I just dated myself using the s word)

Re:Fair enough...

[LoudMusic]

No sequel...I get it...so tell me about the prequel you are working on... Dave

I don't want a sequel or a prequel. I want more stories from the time frame the first season was working from.

!!!

Re:Fair enough...

[DrJimbo]

Okay. The prequel starts with a Trade Federation (run by frogs) blockading a planet and causing trouble for a beautiful young princess ...

Re:The[n] do something else!

[Kris_J]

One word: Willow.

Made a profit

[RedWizzard]

TFA is incorrect about Serenity failing to make a profit when including DVD sales. I suspect someone forgot to include the non-US boxoffice. Serenity made $39M on a budget of $39M worldwide, and while that does include the marketing (probably around $10M), DVD sales would certainly have resulted in a profit. I believe it made about $13M on DVD and VHS rentals alone.

Re:Made a profit

[Jherek Carnelian]

Serenity made $39M on a budget of $39M worldwide, and while that does include the marketing (probably around $10M), DVD sales would certainly have resulted in a profit.

Don't forget the Stupid German Money that makes a kind of profit even if the movie doesn't. I haven't checked the credits roll for any GmbH listings, but it is virtually certain that stupid german money was used in the production since it has been used in just about every other hollywood production in recent years (for example, all the Uwe Boll flopaloozas, and all of LotR too).

Re:Made a profit

[edwardpickman]

Actually that's a loss. Some inside quotes. For the first week the studio gets 60% of the boxoffice. After that it generally drops to 50% with it continuing to drop with the theater owners making an increasing percentage, 60%+. The studio would have made a little less than 20 mill off the theatrical take with ten mill for advertising being conservative. If it made 13 mill on DVD sales that means they made back less than 23 mill on a 39 mill investment. That's extremely bad. I think it was badly marketed which cost it sales but it's unlikely to have ever broke even making it a very bad risk for the studio to make sequels. I liked the movie version but it didn't even come close to seeing a profit based on the numbers you provided.

Re:Made a profit

[shma]

Considering that the film just came in at under even and we don't know the exact dvd production or marketing costs, I think it may be that they did not recoup the total costs. But even if they did make 52 million with a production budget of 39 million + 10 million marketing, we're talking about a modest profit (6%). And the studio would know that for any sequal they would be pulling in almost identical numbers. So why would they bother wasting a year filming a sequal when other modest movies are making profits of many times their production costs?(Even throw in 10 million for marketing, and you'd still have more than 300% profit)Serenity was given a chance, and it performed modestly. Good luck to Whedon with his future projects, but I doubt he could come back to the Firefly universe even if he wanted to.

Re:Made a profit

[unitron]

"For the first week the studio gets 60% of the boxoffice."

Well, the movie theater has to pay out 90% or more of ticket sales to whoever they get the movie from for that first week, so where does the rest of the money go?

Re:Made a profit

[nutshell42]

Here is an more accurate estimation of Serenity's profits from mid-February, taking into account that Universal didn't get all of that money. Nevertheless it definitely made a profit.

If your $13M for rentals are accurate and DVD sales followed a similar trajectory it could be a good deal more by now but still far from the massive profitability studios expect before they green-light a sequel.

Re:Made a profit

[Jherek Carnelian]

There is definitely something missing from those boxofficemojo numbers.
I don't know what the missing numbers are, but I compared what boxofficemojo had to say about Equilibrium which cost $20M and earned the studio close to $10M of profit.

It has been a few years since I listened to the director's commentary on the DVD, but I am pretty sure that he said that studio had been able to secure a total production budget of $30M, in large part because of the sale of foreign distribution rights.

Since actual production cost was only $20M, the studio decided that they would rather spend close to nothing on promotion and be content with the 'free' $10M profit, rather than risk the promotion budget on a quirky film.

Perhaps most of that production money was 'stupid german money' which I mentioned in a sibling post, I don't know any more details than what I've written. But whatever the case, the boxofficemojo numbers for Equilibrium don't reflect that the movie was profitable for the studio, so they may be leaving something out for Serenity too.

Re:Made a profit

[drsquare]

It may have made a bit of money, but not enough to make it worth the risk. If they make another one, it will probably cost a similar amount to produce, but may bring in less money.

If we assume the people who saw the first film out of curiosity don't come back and watch the second, then it could end up losing 10-20 million. The actors will probably want a payrise for a second film as well.

Re:Made a profit

[RedWizzard]

If it made 13 mill on DVD sales

It didn't, you misread. It made $13M on DVD and VHS rentals. Sales were much higher.

I think it was badly marketed which cost it sales but it's unlikely to have ever broke even making it a very bad risk for the studio to make sequels. I liked the movie version but it didn't even come close to seeing a profit based on the numbers you provided.

I didn't provide all the numbers. I didn't provide DVD sales, TV rights income, merchandising, foreign distributions rights etc. That is why a movie is usually considered to break even if it's ticket sales match it's production budget, because of all the extra income that is usually not mentioned specifically. As it happens people have done a fairly comprehensive analysis for Serenity: "So that's $21 million from the box office, $24 million from DVD sales, $10 million from rentals, and around $5 million from tv rights for a total of $60 million. With Serenity costing $49 million to make and advertise it's estimated that Universal has made $11 million off of the movie. Not nearly enough for Universal to invest in another movie, but there's still profit to be made."

Not great, but certainly a profit. So I stand by my statement that the article was wrong on that point.

Here Is To a BSG Movie

[moore.dustin]

Firefly is over so I can only hope Battlestar Gallactica gets the steam it needs to have a feature film. It could be very well received given the way BSG is grabbing non-SciFi people.

Re:Here Is To a BSG Movie

[Anonymous Coward]

I haven't seen an episode of it, and I -am- a sci-fi person.

What am I missing?

Re:Here Is To a BSG Movie

[Anonymous Coward]

You're missing of the best show on TV. The third series premiers tonight, and there's a free 40 minute 'catch up' show on iTunes. However, it will totally ruin the two brilliant series' before it.

Perhaps grab this, then this, then download the series three stuff once you've caught up.

Enjoy!

Re:Here Is To a BSG Movie

[cappadocius]

I don't really understand this impulse to turn things that are great in one medium into things in another.

I really love BSG, but I think a lot of its power comes from being a serial television program. Listen to Ron Moore's podcasts and you'll hear him remark on that. What exactly would be so great about a movie that can't be done in a 2- or 3-parter (which they actually do)?

And similarly, I didn't think Serenity was all that great. I mean, I enjoyed it, but not like the episodes. I have watched the episodes of Firefly a dozen times now. There's no chance I'll watch Serenity that many times.

Re:Here Is To a BSG Movie

[Jeff DeMaagd]

Serenity felt a lot like two or three three movies crammed into the time slot of one. The pace was so rediculously fast and they covered so much that it's kind of annoying that way. It also didn't have as much comedy, at least I thought so.

Re:Here Is To a BSG Movie

[X0563511]

It's a good show, but the "amateur camera operator" technique drives me away. I just can't concentrate on the show itself - I'm one of those people who throw a CD out because of a single skip.

Perhaps they don't use that style any more, it's been a long time since I've given it another try.

Re:Here Is To a BSG Movie

[BiggerIsBetter]

Personally, I'd rather see the funds go into a porn with Mal and Boomer going at it.

Re:Here Is To a BSG Movie

[exp(pi*sqrt(163))]

What am I missing?

What is the nature of political power? Can there be a legitimate government without an army to back it up? What properties should something possess before we grant it rights? Can something non-human be treated as a moral agent? Which of our rights should we give up in extreme situations? Do the ends justify the means?

Like Star Trek before it, Battlestar grapples with these issues. Unlike Star Trek, it doesn't lecture you. It doesn't present you with easy answers. It doesn't tell you the answer that will make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside. Instead it brings up these issues within the context of a damn fine drama with all of the complex and messy interdependencies that we find in real life. The characters are complex and inconsistent and develop as they face these challenges. There are no clearly defined goodies and baddies. Even the Cylons have convoluted motivations. The characters (apart from Baltar) rarely fit simple pigeon-hole categories and we definitely don't have to endure annoying individuals who preach to us from a pedestal of high moral ground (though you may think one or two are a little self-righteous if you only watch a single episode).

Oh...one last thing...like Firefly it doesn't have people wearing silly masks pretending to be aliens.

Re:Here Is To a BSG Movie

[Anonymous Brave Guy]

Yeah, great move. We finally get another great sci-fi show, and you want to kill it by encouraging people to download it illegally rather than spending the modest asking price to buy a DVD set that can be had from Amazon within 24 hours.

And we wonder why shows like Firefly got canned. Sheesh.

Re:Here Is To a BSG Movie

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, i think it comes comes from starting as a mini-series (essentially, a long movie, actually, i have seen a movie that actually was about 6 hours long before...). Because it started as a mini-series, it was ment to have a end. What i dont like about a lot of other shows, especially scefi shows, is that they just keep going and going without a end (even the original BSG from what i have seen), sure, they might find a good plot line for a season or so, but it gets old. BSG (the new one) is good, in that i expect it to end, coming from a mini-series that did end. Its like a good long story, they have to end sometimes, and right now, the BSG storyline still feels natural and good, and not trying to keep the series going, but just letting it all happen. Thats why i think BSG is such a greate show, and can only hope that it ends when its time to end it, and not try to keep going like other scifi shows.

If they do make a movie from it, i dont think it will lose much. The series as it is already seems to be close to a movie in terms of pictures and acting, only the story itself flows slower then what a movie would have. If they where to make a movie out of it, i cant only hope they dont crap out on it, and make it 2 hours at least (as all good movies are), and dont rush the plot, just use it to end the whole storyline, but not rush thru the whole storyline.

Re:Here Is To a BSG Movie

[Anonymous Brave Guy]

I agree that BSG touches on a lot of deep issues, and generally does it well. Last time we had a discussion about it around here (before the season two box set was out) I said that I thought the series was good, but suffered from always being so negative, with hardly any lucky breaks, or happy endings, or even hope. Someone suggested that this changed somewhat in the middle of season two, in the mid-season extended episode.

While I've now seen the box set and understand the point that reply was making, I still think it's a shame the series is so "heavy" all the time. Sure, there have been flashes of hope: the first time the count goes up in series one, for example, and a couple of the big plot twists I won't spoil in series two. But after watching the whole season within a few days (I do that with new DVD box sets...), my overwhelming emotions are still very negative. I can't think of a single character who really has a happy "story so far" at this stage, and while some of the fear and hardship and loss is integral to the plot, some of it (I'm thinking of one recurring character's death in particular here) seemed to be entirely without purpose, and to break one of the few genuinely positive things about the storyline.

There are no clearly defined goodies and baddies.

I'm not sure I'd agree with that:

Cylon: No harm done.
Adama: No harm! You completely annihilated our race, destroyed our civilization.

I think it's pretty clear who the bad guys are! They're just not cookie-cutter bad guys who are "miscellaneously evil" (as the Wraith from SG: Atlantis were once described around here). And yes, some of them do have silly masks, though I'm more of a Tricia Helfer fan myself. ;-)

Re:Here Is To a BSG Movie

[Dun Malg]

It's a good show, but the "amateur camera operator" technique drives me away.

You mean they do that irritating "pseudo first person" handheld camera bullshit? I want to know what fucktard came up with that and thought it was a good idea. Man, I hope they don't do a lot of it, because I have the BSG first season on the way from netflix for this week's TV viewing...

Re:Here Is To a BSG Movie

[exp(pi*sqrt(163))]

I think it's pretty clear who the bad guys are!

Is the Sharon on the BSG a bad guy? What about the 'war hero' Sharon and #6? What about the preacher that Roslin thoughtlessly tossed out of the airlock? And anyway, who was it that started this war in the first place by enslaving the Cylons? Give up your obvious bias towards humans and look at the bigger picture :-)

Re:Here Is To a BSG Movie

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, great move. We finally get another great sci-fi show, and you want to kill it by encouraging people to download it illegally rather than spending the modest asking price to buy a DVD set that can be had from Amazon within 24 hours.

And we wonder why shows like Firefly got canned. Sheesh.

No we don't, pretty much every agrees it was mismanaged by Fox (plus, while great, it wasn't the most mainstream of shows). It wasn't because of people downloading it. In fact, quite the opposite; the movie got made largely because so many people bought the DVDs.

Re:Here Is To a BSG Movie

[Guppy06]

"What i dont like about a lot of other shows, especially scefi shows, is that they just keep going and going without a end (even the original BSG from what i have seen), sure, they might find a good plot line for a season or so, but it gets old."

The thing is, the Japanese have been doing this for decades with various anime series, and even in the US we see shows like Stargate: SG-1 continuing to keep enough people interested in it to make some money. Simply because it can get stale doesn't always mean that it will, or, at the very least, there's no reason for it to be consistently stale if it runs into a rough patch.

Re:Here Is To a BSG Movie

[Guppy06]

"You mean they do that irritating "pseudo first person" handheld camera bullshit? I want to know what fucktard came up with that"

My guess? WWII combat photographers. And my guess is that they didn't exactly plan on it, just a matter of not wanting to set up a decent tripod while getting shot at.

Galactica is a show about war. My guess is they're trying to make it look like one. If you want a constant camera angle, go out and watch a stage play. And don't be surprised when it doesn't have the same imapct.

Re:Here Is To a BSG Movie

[Guppy06]

"I still think it's a shame the series is so "heavy" all the time."

We can always toss in a cute kid with a robotic daggit. Hey, they can even stop the fleet at a space casino!

"I can't think of a single character who really has a happy "story so far" at this stage,"

For all intents and purposes, the entire human species save less than 1% has been wiped out of existence in a single cataclysmic attack. Nobody among those 15k should have a particularly happy life. Everybody has lost friends and loved ones, and continues to lose them as the Cylons (apparently) continue the drive to finish what they started.

"some of it (I'm thinking of one recurring character's death in particular here) seemed to be entirely without purpose,"

Death is death, it need not be meaningful. Try picking up a newspaper and checking out who got killed and why in the nearest bad neighborhood.

After all, the series started with tens of billions of rather meaningless deaths.

Re:Here Is To a BSG Movie

[Anonymous Brave Guy]

No we don't, pretty much every agrees it was mismanaged by Fox (plus, while great, it wasn't the most mainstream of shows). It wasn't because of people downloading it.

That may be true, or it may not. It doesn't really matter, because that's not what the studio execs looking at funding the next Firefly (or deciding whether to commission a fourth series of BSG) will see.

In fact, quite the opposite; the movie got made largely because so many people bought the DVDs.

Right. So linking to illegal torrents instead of the DVD box sets' pages on $ONLINE_VENDOR isn't exactly promoting the future prospects of BSG, is it?

Re:Here Is To a BSG Movie

[exp(pi*sqrt(163))]

After all, the series started with tens of billions of rather meaningless deaths.

They weren't meaningless to the Cylons. The Cylons had been enslaved by humans and as long as humans existed they ran the risk that they would, at some point, attempt to hunt them down and enslave or destroy them again. Given the contempt held by humans for Cylons, despite the fact that the Cylons were clearly intelligent and feeling enough to protest about their oppression, the Cylons were entirely justified in their fears. No, rather than being meaningless, every death was considered by Cylons to be one step closer to freedom.

Re:Here Is To a BSG Movie

[glarbl_blarbl]

NYPD Blue started it, and IMO did it well- it's all about subtlety. People take it too far, though- it has no place (like jump-cuts) in documentaries... Not that I'm calling BSG a documentary, but I have changed channels because some asshat at the History channel decided to do a doc on Grand Central Station and cut the fucking thing like a music video. Made me physically ill.

Re:Here Is To a BSG Movie

[Anonymous Brave Guy]

After all, the series started with tens of billions of rather meaningless deaths.

Not at all; those deaths were an essential part of the storyline. And of course, they did have meaning to the side causing them. The one I mentioned didn't really add anything. It didn't lead to any new angles on the storyline. It didn't trigger an essential subplot. It didn't fundamentally shift a balance of power in a way that would matter later in the series. It just happened, because.

As I've pointed out before, killing off good characters "just because" doesn't make for "gritty realism", it just damages the storytelling. If you go too far with that idea, you get Spooks, a series that started with a lot of promise but shafted so many characters in pointless and unnecessary ways that no-one I know watches it any more. You'd have a greater life expectancy as the guest crew member with the red shirt or the agent in charge of the CTU when Jack Bauer's in town!

Re:Here Is To a BSG Movie

[Anonymous Coward]

the original boomer right?

-never mind, i already know the answer, cutie! ;-)

Re:Here Is To a BSG Movie

[X0563511]

That I understand, but when that technique is the ONLY ONE USED THE ENTIRE LENGTH OF THE SHOW there is a problem.

Re:Here Is To a BSG Movie

[sonicleads]

Right. So linking to illegal torrents instead of the DVD box sets' pages on $ONLINE_VENDOR isn't exactly promoting the future prospects of BSG, is it?

The only reason I bought the DVD boxset of Firefly, went to see Serenity, and bought the DVD as soon as it came out is because a friend linked me to some downloads of the episodes. I'd never have seen it if he hadn't.

Re:Here Is To a BSG Movie

[rk]

I loved the first two Spooks (They call it MI-5 here in the States) series enough to own them, but series three just eliminated virtually everyone I gave a damn about, and I've not even bothered to find out if they produced a series four, much less whether it will come out on DVD.

Re:Here Is To a BSG Movie

[Anonymous Coward]

I can't buy season 2 in this country yet. Neither series have been broadcast here. So, BitTorrent it is.

Re:Here Is To a BSG Movie

[Kingrames]

Seconded.

I've seen maybe 2.3 episodes so far, totalling all the time spent spinning my head from WoW to the TV screen to say "WTF just happened?" and I can tell you it's a damn fine drama. I haven't yet turned my head back in disgust from the show, and that's more than I can say for just about every other sci-fi thing *ever*. Even Firefly/Serenity had a few cheesy moments or scenarios.

My recommendation to you is that you turn the TV on to see the latest episode while trying to do something else, because it'll suck you in on its own time, and no matter where you dive in, there's a great story being told in a great way.

Re:Here Is To a BSG Movie

[coaxial]

While I've now seen the box set and understand the point that reply was making, I still think it's a shame the series is so "heavy" all the time. Sure, there have been flashes of hope: the first time the count goes up in series one, for example, and a couple of the big plot twists I won't spoil in series two. But after watching the whole season within a few days (I do that with new DVD box sets...), my overwhelming emotions are still very negative. I can't think of a single character who really has a happy "story so far" at this stage, and while some of the fear and hardship and loss is integral to the plot, some of it (I'm thinking of one recurring character's death in particular here) seemed to be entirely without purpose, and to break one of the few genuinely positive things about the storyline.

Well let's be honest here. The story is about the last remaining 40,000 humans running for their lives from a relentless unlimited army of killing machines. Tell me how that's supposed to be happy? Tell me how anyone is supposed to be having a happy life stuck on a ship light years from home with everyone in their family dead That is not a happy situation. There's no way they're lives are ever going to be happy, until the cylons are gone.

Most of the population is now captured by the enemy and infiltrated with traitors. That is a bad life, and no silly episode about Tyrell's lost dog is going to change that. Hell, an episode like that would go completly against the feel of the show.

Re:Here Is To a BSG Movie

[Anonymous Coward]

If you're talking about the character I think you are, he got killed because the actor wanted to leave the series. Sometimes the greater meaning of a character's death only makes sense in the gritty world of actual reality. :-)

Re:Here Is To a BSG Movie

[itsdapead]

We can always toss in a cute kid with a robotic daggit. Hey, they can even stop the fleet at a space casino!

Actually, "Boxy" was in the pilot miniseries and features prominently in the "deleted scenes" on the series 1 DVDs. Not so cute - looked like he was going to be the first to find out about Sharon's little secret. No robot daggit, though.

They also cut what I thought was a really funny scene - Baltar telling number 6 that he "needed a little time". Maybe they were deliberately "darkening" the show.

Re:Here Is To a BSG Movie

[Tink2000]

Heh, I always called that "drunkcam". I hate it too, but I can overlook it for BSG.

Re:Here Is To a BSG Movie

[Bodrius]

As an AC has mentioned, there were practical reasons for the death of the character you mention.
Even so, I do think that it fit the drama nicely, and the reactions of some characters to the 'meaninglessness' of that death itself is nicely played. Meaningless death is, after all, one of the most frustrating things about situations like the one they portrayed. I would have been disappointed if they just used a red-shirt to deal with that aspect.

If you have the DVD set as you mentioned, I strongly recommend watching that (and other) episodes with the podcast commentaries.

They clarify a lot of things, a lot of the reasons why they did X or Y and what they were trying to achieve, and has actually some of the best self-critical commentaries I've seen in DVDs: they candidly discuss what episodes work or not, which parts were difficult, etc.

The consistent darkness of the series is a frequent point they discuss, and why it was justified in each case.
It is, after all, a holocaust story: the human species is almost exterminated and still actively hunted to extinction by a superior enemy. It is a story about survival, not victory.

There is some hope, but an uplifting story is not something BSG can be within that context. A character with a 'happy story so far' would just not be realistic at all, you would need some base of normality first to even get there, and the point of the show is that normality is gone.

Things may change in the new season, since the rules have changed so dramatically.

Re:Here Is To a BSG Movie

[CountBrass]

Completely agree. Firefly had charm, Serenity didn't.

Re:Here Is To a BSG Movie

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh my God! They killed Danny. You bastards!!

Re:Here Is To a BSG Movie

[Son.Of.Dad]

that's funny, i can overlook bsg. Go figure. Tomatoe/Tomato...

Re:Here Is To a BSG Movie

[WilliamSChips]

I've never seen the original(well, 30 seconds or so) but from every account I've heard the only thing they carried over was the names.

for the best

[thesupermikey]

I loved both firefly and Serenity, but i dont feel that the film lived of the the high standard of excellences of Wheaton et al. Wonder Woman news im sure will start to come out in a few months and than who knows what. I would love to see a new TV show, maybe something on HBO....that will never happen

Sequel would have been sweet...

[TimeForGuinness]

I didn't follow Firefly, and I saw Serenity about 4 months ago. (Please don't revoke my geek card)

I must say, it was one of my favorite SciFi flicks to date. It totally surprised me, decent story, decent graphics. I recommended it to a lot of my friends. I described it loosely as if they made a movie about Han Solo. (rugged, funny thief...they almost dressed the same)

I was looking forward to another movie. I like the SciFiWestern combo that he pulled off.

Maybe I will just have to start watching Firefly.

Cheers,
TFG

Re:Sequel would have been sweet...

[geekoid]

yes you should.
If you like the movie, the series will thrill you.

Re:Sequel would have been sweet...

[TimeForGuinness]

Sweet, thanks for the reply. I'll check it out. I haven't had time the last few years to devote to a series. Thank God for the series/season DVDs....I can catch up. Cheers, TFG

Re:Sequel would have been sweet...

[BWJones]

Firefly was everything that Star Wars could have/should have been. Good writing, well developed characters, good acting, right setting, good costumes, good etc...etc...etc...

Go out and buy Firefly, you will *not* be disappointed.

Re:Sequel would have been sweet...

[MojoStan]

I'll check it out. I haven't had time the last few years to devote to a series. Thank God for the series/season DVDs....I can catch up.

Make sure you can devote about fifteen hours of a weekend to watch all 14 episodes (45 minutes each with 90 minute premiere) and to watch the movie again (it's a different experience after watching the tv series). You might think you have the self-discipline to watch a reasonable number of minutes per day, but just in case...

Personally, I made the mistake of watching the Firefly DVD one evening and (since I wasn't doing anything important the next day) stayed up all night. I feel like such a dope admitting this on Slashdot.

Re:Sequel would have been sweet...

[MMC Monster]

Prepare to be saddened. Not by the episodes. They're funny, lighthearted, well written and acted, and some of the best stuff you wil ever watch in the sci-fi or western genres.

You will be sad when you finish it and realize that it's all over and there is nothing left to watch.

Re:Sequel would have been sweet...

[Anonymous Coward]

I too found myself finally catching Serenity on HBO. Heard all the fanboy talk on slashdot. Warezed the DVD and just put it on the pile. Even read some positive coverage of the libertarian angle on Reason and yet I remained unaware. Caught it in the middle running on HBO. Just had to see more. Started from the beginning as soon as it reran west coast time. Seen it 6 times now and it just keeps getting better.

Had to look up River and the Alliance guy on imdb. Good characters all, but those two stole the show. Summer is like Chistina Ricci on steriods after a martial arts fat camp, with a new slip dress for each occasion of kick ass. Reminded me of Butch Cassidy as they robbed the payroll. Loved the Mal-Alliance guy interaction. Very cool dialog with that vagely nostalgic western style talk. Cool twin paymasters. Cool mashup of the Asian culture. Nice shoots with the Mal-River fades and River looking through the burning swing at haven. Nice to know oodee bar is not mandatory. Joss finds nice ways to insert a maximum of back story with little exposition. Makes me feel melancholy when it ends. I want more of these characters. Feels like Joss even knows it was over before it began. Given all the fan boy gushing and my less then glowing response to Buffy and the hellmouths, I was expecting little, but found genius.

Re:Sequel would have been sweet...

[SamSim]

If you want more of the similar, there's always Cowboy Bebop.

Re:Sequel would have been sweet...

[Reziac]

The complete series (17 eps, incl. some never aired) was at Sam's Club for $17 a while back. At that price, I bought it even tho I didn't find the series all that wonderful (decent as a serial, but as straight SF it's too campy for my taste).

Re:Sequel would have been sweet...

[THE anonymus coward]

Your experience is not unique. My first exposure was a friend's rented DVD... it was sad when there weren't any left on the DVD and the rental place was closed. I ended up watching them all over again in order, though never all in one sitting (I have yet to had sufficent caffeine on hand to pull that off).

Re:Sequel would have been sweet...

[Kesch]

I just hit that point. I had seen some of Firefly, and I saw Serenity in thaters, but I just now started watching all of Firefly in order and after every episode I think "Damn! This is amazing, why can't it have a future?"

Re:What's the big deal?

[kfg]

I tend to agree. I enjoyed watching it, but it's not something I'm going to go out and spend money on.

Perhaps I would think more of it if the first time I saw it it hadn't been called Fist Full of Dollars.

KFG

Shit

[valkabo]

Shit.. back to reality :(

Re:Joss Whedon sucks.

[irishdaze]

Wow. Sounds like someone needs a nap. Get a grip, don't you have anything better to do smack at fanboys for no good reason?

Re:What's the big deal?

[urbanriot]

Perhaps I would think more of it if the first time I saw it it hadn't been called Fist Full of Dollars. I'm not sure what a western remake of Kurosawa's Yojimbo has to do with Serenity...

Need a new catagory for these announcements

[doctorsmoothy]

A new serenity movie would not be news. But if you call this "Not even not news" the double negative makes it sound like news.

I don't watch much tv...

[xx01dk]

Double reason to hate: When I do watch tv, it's usually crap, and I'm bombarded by shows I don't like so I end up watching less tv.
When I actually do like a show, it gets canceled, I get discouraged, so I end up watching less tv. Draw your own conclusions, but I'll probably end up watching less tv whatever you conclude.

Any networks want to hire me (pay me) to like a rival network's shows?

Re:I don't watch much tv...

[exp(pi*sqrt(163))]

When I do watch tv, it's usually crap...

Do you really think so? Try going out to see a movie, then you'll see what the word 'crap' really means. The TV studios are currently producing the best drama and entertainment that they ever have. I gave up watching TV for about 8 years. Then about two years ago I got hooked on series like The Sopranos, Firefly and Battlestar Galactica on DVD. Now I have a 50" TV in the living room...

A sci-fi show that works..

[msimm]

as a drama and an action movie without having to dumb down the plot, with special effects and acting on par with anything you'd see on the big screen.

Bad TV show, great movie

[Che Guevarra]

That's really too bad. The show left me flat, but the movie rocked. Ofcourse it only rocked based on my knowledge of the bad TV show. Bit of a paradox here. Shame though.

Re:Bad TV show, great movie

[Angostura]

Curious. The movie was OK, but not a patch on the show, IMHO. I liked the leisurely character development in the latter.

Re:Bad TV show, great movie

[Che Guevarra]

I believe it was the pace of the show and the production value (lack of FX) that left me flat. There was never anything wrong with the characters, just something about the western theme and the civil war music. Too dusty for my taste. I will say this though, I really am a Whedon fan, he ate up about 7 years of my life on UPN/WB.

Re:Bad TV show, great movie

[MandoSKippy]

Civil war music... huh?
Do you know what civil war music is? Or did you see a show once that had a fiddle in in and now all music with fiddles is civil war music. By that logic all music with british guys singing is beatles music, and all music that has electric guitar is heavy metal. What logic did you use? If any thing, that music is a progressive acoustic folk.

Jeez... nerds talking music...

Re:Bad TV show, great movie

[Che Guevarra]

Without really sourcing it, I would say that the music on FireFly was very simlar to Civil War documentaries I've seen on PBS - very fiddle heavy. I suppose I could source it but why? That would be a lot like saying alligator tastes like chicken and then having to prove it. It just does. And if I ever hear progressive acoustic folk I'll kill myself just for being in a room full of people that plays it.

Also, all music with British guys singing sounds like a trip to the Man Hole where they all hold hands until they go to the bathroom.

Re:Bad TV show, great movie

[MandoSKippy]

Point taken, but closing your mind to certain music based on the type is a mistake I made for years. I shunned old country, bluegrass, acoustic jazz, dawg music, etc... but check out the "fun" factor in that music. Festivals, dances, the drinking, the moonshine... everyone is smiling and there is not a computer to be found. A wonderful ying to the yang of being a computer security engineer by day.

Would been quite hard away

[CharonX]

As the article says with some key characters dead and the major mysteries resolved there are no plot lines to hook on.
One could feel in the movie that the series ended prematurely - with the highly compressed plot material found in the movie and the comic one could have easily filled a 2nd season, not to mention "paths not taken". But I must say Joss Whedon did the right thing - he gave the series closure. We know how the big plots resolved, we mourn the loss of loved ones and yet there is a somewhat bright future imaginable for Serenity and their crew.
Still, I am sad that there will be no new Firefly movie or series in the predictable future, but who knows - once Fox loses its choking grip on this good TV series there might be hope again if a better channel picks up the series - but this will not happen in the next few years, so I will not be holding my breath.

Re:Would been quite hard away

[Kenshin]

I always wanted to know more about Shepherd Book. People were always saying "He's not a Shepherd", but no one ever said what he actually WAS.

Re:Would been quite hard away

[grasshoppa]

Actually, there is still quite a bit story left in the universe; Joss said it himself. Even were there not, I'd still pay to watch two hours of TV show again, assuming they were new.

hell, even were they not new actually.

Re:Would been quite hard away

[JFMulder]

The blue hand men were never explained. And there was also some corporation who has ads all over the place in the show that's never explained, something like the Blue Sun IIRC.

Re:Would been quite hard away

[Anonymous Coward]

As the article says with some key characters dead and the major mysteries resolved there are no plot lines to hook on.

The Matrix managed to churn out 2 bad sequels.

Re:Would been quite hard away

[VENONA]

I agree with CharonX on all points. To continue in the same vein, I doubt Fox will sell the rights to Firefly, unless the people who cancelled it are now gone. Risk/reward probably looks something like: They might make a hit of it, and make me look bad/minuscule upside to corporate bottom line. Hmm...set corporate butt-covering shields to eleven!

Also, Whedon seems to have projects enough to keep him busy for another couple of years, and time has to be at least something of a factor. The buzz (and apparently there wasn't enough of *that* to begin with) diminishes, cast members are more likely to be working on other shows, etc. And people change. Would the same chemistry still be there, after some years have passed?

I'd be pleasantly surprised if we saw any more Firefly/Serenity, and yet more surprised if I enjoyed it as much as the original work. OTOH, I was surprised before, as I never expected Whedon to ever produce something I actually liked.

Re:Would been quite hard away

[trenobus]

Well, here's a hint: There was another major character in the movie whose story shows you what Book was, and what happened to him that he became Shepherd Book. In some sense, the whole movie is about the life of Shepherd Book.

Re:Would been quite hard away

[PMuse]

Yup, they are so parallel that you may find yourself asking whether they are two separate people. The Firefly universe seems too grounded for a 'magical' tech like time travel, but their stories would fit.

Good!

[BubbaFett]

Don't go ruin it like Star Wars and The Matrix. Do something new and awesome.

Re:Good!

[kimvette]

How was Star Wars ruined? Those three movies were great!

*is in denial of post-1997 Star Wars productions*

Please, let my memory repression efforts work!

Re:Good!

[rk]

*rk gestures in kimvette's general direction*

"There are only three Star Wars movies... and there wasn't a Holiday special either." :-)

Re:Good!

[Anonymous Coward]

Like Dune!

Somewhat misinterpreted

[TooTrueTroubs]

In this post: http://whedonesque.com/comments/11513 Joss Whedon explains that his comments don't mean 'no Serenity ever' - just 'no Serenity NOW'.

When the two worlds align and something actually happens, whatever it is, you guys know I'll be on this site as soon as I'm allowed to be. And I'll be very very clear. There is no news. Not never, just now.

Re:Somewhat misinterpreted

[mstra]

just 'no Serenity NOW'

Lloyd: You know, you should tell your dad that 'serenity now' thing doesn't work. It just bottles up the anger, and eventually, you blow.
George: What do you know? You were in the nut house.
Lloyd: What do you think put me there?
George: I heard they found a family in your freezer.
Lloyd: Serenity now. Insanity later.

Re:Somewhat misinterpreted

[sarge apone]

just 'no Serenity NOW'

Maybe he should start using the phrase, "Hoochie Momma"

Maybe...

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe there will be a sequel to the sequel...

Re:What's the big deal?

[enjerth]

The article is exagerated.

Many sites ran with similar stories, taking Joss Whedon's words out of context.

From Whedonesque http://whedonesque.com/comments/11513#144407:

[snip]
If you missed all the fun, at the weekend Joss responded to the latest Serenity sequel rumour and quite rightly knocked it on the head. Several sites picked up on what he said and took his remarks to mean that there would be never be a sequel to Serenity.
[snip]

And in this thread, Joss Whedon replies http://whedonesque.com/comments/11513#144407 with the following:

[snip]
Isn't there any ACTUAL news to get wrong? Sorry about all this; it might be best if I just stay off the computer for a while. Or just glut the feed with wild conjecture. Hmm, let's see... I'm me, so... let's glut! Here are some ABSOLUTELY TRUE statements of factiness. Gentlemen, start your websites.
[snip]

Joss was putting to rest the rumor that he was working on Serenity 2, not saying that there will never be a Serenity 2.

Old news

[mcvos]

Whedon has said this before and will probably have to repeat it again to fans hoping for a sequel. I'm hoping for a sequel too, but I seriously doubt it's ever going to happen.

Time for a new quality SF TV series, I'd say.

Re:What's the big deal?

[kfg]

That's ok, I'm not sure what the show has to do with Serenity.

KFG

sigh..

[Leviance]

Yet another reminder of why I hate Fox.

Its a sorry shame.

Re:What's the big deal?

[aichpvee]

Even if he eventually does one there's no way it'll be any time soon. He's working on at least two other films right now.

Not never.

[Anonymous Coward]

Straight from the horse's mouth: 4) I will absolutely, posatively never ever do any kind of Serenity sequel or spinoff unless a studio asks me. Politely. Or meanly, that's cool too.

Re:Not never.

[batmanmiles]

You're not serious, are you? You didn't read his post. All seven of those points were lies. It was supposed to be funny. Harlan Ellis's beard has a foyer?

NOT TRUE

[gambit3]

Josh was just setting to bed rumors that had been circling that there was a Serenity sequel IN THE WORKS.

No More Mrs. Reynolds....

[DESADE]

I was seriously hoping for some kind of resurrection of the character played by Christina Hendricks in "Our Mrs. Reynolds" and "Trash." I'm sure some of you remember the salaciously hot redhead.

It's a shame when shows like Firefly get axed when so much crap survives. But, I hate to admit it, I missed Firefly on TV and only got hip to it on DVD. What a shame.

I think it's a tribute to Joss that he got the movie made at all. And anyone who saw the film knew it was the end.

Re:No More Mrs. Reynolds....

[Anonymous Brave Guy]

Oh, you're gonna go to the special hell for bringing her up...

Re:No More Mrs. Reynolds....

[Anonymous Coward]

But, I hate to admit it, I missed Firefly on TV and only got hip to it on DVD. What a shame.

It's not your fault. The show was aired incompletely, out of order, in random timeslots.

Re:No More Mrs. Reynolds....

[Anonymous Coward]

I feel pretty much the same way. I never watched it on TV but I bought the DVDs and I'm hooked. I've also managed to get a few people to go out and buy the DVD sets as well. My new plan is to win the lottery and then fund a second season of Firefly.....I know its unlikley but if I do happen to win I think I'd have to give it a try. As for a second movie I doubt it but a second season before or after the movie could be worked in nicely to fill in the gaps between the movie and the first season. Its kind of weird. I escaped being a fan of any other Sci Fi show out there and got hooked on the one that has a very small chance of ever having anything done with it.

Re:No More Mrs. Reynolds....

[plonk420]

http://plonkmedia.org/thorn/images/32/the%20specia l%20hell.jpg

:-)

Re:No More Mrs. Reynolds....

[Anonymous Brave Guy]

Hmm... Doesn't seem so bad...

;-)

Re:No More Mrs. Reynolds....

[Don_dumb]

The show was aired incompletely, out of order, in random timeslots.

Unfortunately, that seems the norm for US Sci-Fi when aired here in the UK.

Unfortunate

[Trindle]

Much like the sentiments above, this makes me sad. Firefly has to be one of the most well done sci-fi shows to-date. I know that it had its problems but deep down it has (had) heart. Ah well.. at least we still have Battlestar Galactica.

No loss

[kentrel]

It was pretty bland, generic sci fi anyway which was being carried solely by the Buffy fanboys, who are terrifying in their obsessiveness. They make Star Trek fans look like mere hobbyists.

Though as banal as I found it, it still amazes me at what gets cancelled, and what doesn't. At least Firefly had a plot....

LEX??? - how many bloody series of that have there been!? I've never met anyone who liked it. Did you? Please reply, and tell me why! Did I just not "get it"? Did I have to be on drugs or have been anally probed by aliens to have enjoyed it?

Re:No loss

[Anonymous Brave Guy]

Lexx was just strange, from the one episode I ever saw of it. Of course, that turned out to be the last episode, and it was 3am, and I was a bit drunk and a lot tired.

Re:No loss

[Mayhem178]

Bland and generic? Firefly had one of the best, most in-depth plots of any sci-fi show I've ever seen. It was far from a cookie-cutter reality. A Western in space? That's something unheard of on network television. Which, of course, was both its most unique achievement and its worst failure. I guess the typical people that watch Fox just didn't "get it."

And for the record, I have never seen a single episode of any other show of Joss Whedon's creation. Nor do they really interest me enough to warrant watching them. So, I don't really know where the Buffy reference is coming from. In fact, of all the people I know that love Firefly (and I know a friggin' lot), I don't think a one of them watches Buffy or Angel.

So, it's not so much saddening to know that there probably will be no resurrection for Firefly, but to hear Joss say it so defeatedly. That's just disheartening.

Re:No loss

[chromatic]

A Western in space? That's something unheard of on network television.

Really? For some reason, that reminds me of original Trek.

Re:No loss

[Anonymous Coward]

I enjoyed Lexx, though I probably only saw about half or less of the episodes on cable re-runs.

I liked it because it was so different from other shows I was familiar with. The series seemed based on the characters rather than overall story plot. And the characters were not the typical TV show characters, sci-fi or not. They really weren't "good guys", or "bad guys", for that matter. The weren't even likable characters, for the most part. They were flawed individuals. But their characters were consistant, and the character development and interaction was very well done.

Now I didn't like the show enough to follow it religiously, and I think the DVDs are out, but I didn't love it enough to buy the DVDs, but I just though I'd put in my 2 cents about why I watched it when I could.

Re:No loss

[Anonymous Coward]

Somehow, I find a Reconstruction Era, Wild West show to be much more fascinating than a Star Trek post-economic utopia. Humans improving, often within 1000 years, until all people work together and advance infinitely just because it's a good thing to do, that I find unbelievable. For one thing, that has never happened, here. Humans getting to space, and then, as a group, not being any better than now, that's much more fun. As bonus, they completely messed up Earth in the process.

On a more prosaic level, it's easier to identify with the spaceship captain who has to worry about paying his bills, who has to balance morals with whether he can eat. Humor is good, too.

Re:No loss

[Anonymous Coward]

"A Western in space? That's something unheard of on network television. Which, of course, was both its most unique achievement and its worst failure. I guess the typical people that watch Fox just didn't "get it."

What are you blathering about? Pretty much every space serial from Ming the Merciless on was essentially a western in space. Putting spacemen directly in Old West scenarios is at least as old as Shatner shuffling around Tombstone. TNG revisited it numerous times. It's no less a TV SF cliche as pastel-beam hand weapons. I don't disagee Firefly showed a great deal of potential but to hold up the worst, most unimaginative, cliche, lazy aspect of it - the whole 'return to the West' subplot which dragged it down like a stone - has me wondering if you're ten and missed it the previous hundred times.

Re:No loss

[kentrel]

So, it's not so much saddening to know that there probably will be no resurrection for Firefly, but to hear Joss say it so defeatedly. That's just disheartening.

Then he shouldn't have used tired old sci-fi AND western cliches in his crappy little show, and maybe it would get the attention other more original shows get.

And for the record, I have never seen a single episode of any other show of Joss Whedon's creation.

Then you're clearly not aware of the fact that not only does he use old cliches he also re-uses his own character archetypes over and over again. Same characters, different names.

Re:No loss

[Anonymous Coward]

LEX = Low budget Canadian production subsidised by government funding, it could go on indefinitely in the name of job creation regardless of whether anybody watches it or not.

Re:No loss

[steve_bryan]

Just for the record I'm another example, as are my three kids, of big fans of Firefly who have no interest in the other series made by Joss. From the anecdotal accounts I've read I suspect that the admirers of Firefly are close to being independent (in the probability theory sense) of the other groups. It is also in a completely different class from Star Trek and Star Wars which are both fantasy rather than science fiction. Nothing is perfect but there hasn't been any science fiction series that is as entertaining or dramatically satisfying (the relationship between Mal and Jayne is worth the price of admission by itself) as Firefly though BSG does a respectable job.

Re:FOR FUCK'S SAKE!

[__aajqwr7439]

"Little House on the Prairie - IN SPACE" failed. Get over it.

I liked Firefly & Serenity a lot, but that was awesome!

Thanks.

DN

Serenity ain't ever coming back.

[Pedrito]

Sad to say, but it really won't. I didn't watch it when it was running, but I watched it before the movie came out and really enjoyed it. The movie was pretty decent too.

I think the problem with Serenity is that it's simply too sophisticated for your WWF fan types. The chinese expressions mixed in, six-gun slingers in space ships. It's just too much for a Nascar fan to cope with. I'm not saying the show is without its fans. I simply think that the average viewer can't quite get it, at least in the States, and that's too bad. It had a lot of originality and even though it had some rough edges, I think they would have really found their groove with another season.

Re:Serenity ain't ever coming back.

[EggyToast]

Most shows take a season or two to find their groove. Look at X-Files, which was over the heads of pretty much everyone who would watch TV. It didn't really hit its stride until the 2nd season. Even ST:TNG didn't get big until after the 1st season finished.

The thing that sucks about Firefly wasn't that it "could've been big," or that there "might have been something if given the time." What sucks is that the 1st season was really good, but FOX killed it for political reasons (internal politics). It's the same thing they did to Family Guy.

Of course, Family Guy is also the reason why people still hope Firefly comes back.

Re:Serenity ain't ever coming back.

[Anonymous Coward]

or fox is just fucking stupid.

Re:Serenity ain't ever coming back.

[RexRhino]

It was a great show... I own it on DVD... but to say it is "too sophisticated" for the TV watching audience is a bit much. Serenity had almost no allegory or subtext, the stories were dead simple, and it really wasn't sophisticated at all. It was extremly well done and compelling, probably because it was so simple.

Your average Nascar fan loves shows like Lost, Deadwood, the Sopranos, which are much more complicated than Serenity.

The reason why the show failed, was because when people hear "cowboys in space", they think "Damn, that must be aweful!". When I first heard about it, I thought it sounded aweful. It should have been aweful! Cowboys in space should totally suck. It just so happens that this time it didn't.

Re:Serenity ain't ever coming back.

[johnsmith_12345]

Seinfeld bombed for the first 4 seasons. Imagine if that was made today, it would be canceld in 6 episodes. /fucking executives....

Re:Serenity ain't ever coming back.

[Burning1]

Sorry, what?

Everything you listed makes it more accessable, IMO. Your average Nascar fan is a lot more likely to appreciate a good ol' gunfight than a lot of . I couldn't personally tell you why it failed, but I can tell you it wasn't because the show was too good for it's own good.

Damn and blast.

[jpellino]

This series made my head snap around, which is more than I can say about 80% of the scifi in the past ten years.
Geez, the guy could suck the vampire franchise dry (sorry), you'd think he could soldier on without the likes of Wash and make it more/better/shinier. Even with the resolutions of the movie and all. One of my favorite quotes about anything creative is from Joss: "Restrictions are great because they make you more imaginative. They make you rethink things, they make you not-do the obvious." I'd say he set lots of restrictions on his existing story line and had no where to go but massively creative.
These characters were as salty / grounded / lofty / eye-twinkling / inventive as my favorite Heinlein characters. Even the trademark behaviors were just tweaked enough and were gently dashed often enough to keep you thinking "what's next?"

To quote Wash, this series told the rest of the scifi world "Here's something you can't do..."

We live in a world "Head of the Class" stays on the air for five seasons. Ya'd think they could keep this stuff rolling for more than one.

OP got the meaning ALL wrong.

[Anonymous Coward]

Joss did not say there will never be a sequel to Serenity. He just said no plans exist for there to be one at this point.

So all you lottery playing Firefly fans can relax and continue, firm in the knowledge that, if you win a big enough jackpot to secure the rights for the franchise and fund the production, the browncoats can start flying again.

FUCK!

[leon.gandalf]

No Sereninty sequal but I bet there will be another Star Wars sequal\prequal.

Re:What's the big deal?

[BootNinja]

He's also about to start writing for the marvel comic, Runaways.

Re:That's clever

[Anonymous Coward]

have a banana

Took my Sky

[Thedeviluno]

There are no good shows and BattleStar is a similacrum.

Re:Took my Sky

[irishdaze]

Disregarding the misspelling as a simple typo, I don't think that word means what you think it means. http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=simul acrum

Quit while you're ahead...

[Aragorn DeLunar]

and always leave them wanting more.

The alternative being: milk it to death and leave them cursing the name "Lucas."

Re:Quit while you're ahead...

[Anonymous Coward]

Amen to that. I'm offended by the increasingly popular idea that it's a sin against nature to NOT turn a successful story into a never-ending franchise. Maybe this expectation that we shouldn't stop making things until *after* they've been beaten to death is the reason we have so much crap in the movies now.

In short, it was a good movie. It's allowed to be a good movie without being a part of an epic trilogy. If you need a fix, watch the director's commentary...it's quite good :)

Re:Quit while you're ahead...

[Anonymous Coward]

Cowboy Bebop did the 'going out on a high' thing much, much better by planning it from the start and wrapping up the intertwining subplots across the final two episodes. The studio telling you it's time to leave doesn't quite have the same ring to it.

"....cursing the name "Lucas.""

I think you meant Berman.

http://serenityfails.ytmnd.com/

[Anonymous Coward]

http://serenityfails.ytmnd.com/

Re:What's the big deal?

[Anonymous Coward]

What?

Thank goodness

[teal_]

Whew! The first movie sucked so bad, and I'm still mad at him for wrecking the "Aliens" franchise with that total crap "Alien Resurrection", blech.

Re:Thank goodness

[Hepneck]

Oh yeah, because Aliens 3 had not already jumped the shark. Ripley H. Christ on a popsicle stick!

It's ok, you can still fantasize about...

[Hepneck]

a sequel. You'll be in your bunk.

An opportunity how big?

[jmenon]

After all the hype and cheers I read on Slashdot about the Serentiy movie a couple of years ago, I was stunned when nobody went to see it. Serenity grossed $38.9 million worldwide last year, which makes it the 113th most popular movie of the year. (http://boxofficemojo.com/yearly/chart/?view2=worl dwide&yr=2005&p=.htm)

Combined with the demoralizing turnout for Star Trek: Nemesis, this makes me wonder whether the ratio of influence to noise by the Slashdot crowd is not overrated by some scary multiplier. Either the views of everyone here really don't matter, or there are far fewer of us than I thought, or there's a lot of people here who won't put their money where their mouth is. Either way, I think Joss Whedon would be a fool to try another Serenity movie, after he got so thoroughly hung out to dry by us "fans" on his last one.

Re:An opportunity how big?

[Planesdragon]

I was stunned when nobody went to see it.

We did. And then Joss pulled the dirtiest storytelling trick he's ever pulled, and half of us shouted out how badly it was. That had a significantly depressing effect on ticket sales -- just like Superman Reurns, and just like Star Trek: Nemesis.

Combined with the demoralizing turnout for Star Trek: Nemesis, this makes me wonder whether the ratio of influence to noise by the Slashdot crowd is not overrated by some scary multiplier.

No, it's just that some times movies suck.

Re:An opportunity how big?

[chromatic]

Let me fix this for you:

... this makes me wonder whether the ratio of influence to noise by stupid noisy people on the Internet is not overrated by some scary multiplier.

There; that helps me get through the day in all sorts of situations!

Re:An opportunity how big?

[Anonymous Coward]

Do elaborate on this trick.

Re:An opportunity how big?

[Maximilio]

And then Joss pulled the dirtiest storytelling trick he's ever pulled, and half of us shouted out how badly it was.

If you didn't think something like that was vintage Joss, you don't really know his style. It is part and parcel of Whedon to make you thoroughly love a character and strive fully alongside them for their hopes and desires, and then snatch it away from you with their death. These characters were risking everything for their dearly-held beliefs and it was only right and true that some of them paid with everything. When I was younger I wrote scifi stories with lots of lasers and danger, but for some reason I just couldn't cause much harm to my characters. The most that would happen was someone's arm would be hurt. Big fucking deal. As I grew into the thing I realized that all that passion means nothing without sacrifice. Joss kills off important characters to get your attention and make you believe that anything could happen. He's been doing it since the early days of Buffy -- he makes it very clear in some of the 1st season commentary that he wanted to start the series off by putting a character in the title sequence and killing them off in the second or third episode. He went ahead and killed the character, but he didn't have the money for the extra titles.

And he came back and went ahead and did it titles and all with Tara later on -- just to accentuate that the business of life in danger is a serious one.

I don't think that Wash's death was why Serenity didn't make that much money. I think it slept hard at the box office because it was under-publicized and under-promoted by the studios and given the kind of shit treatment that the series was given because they didn't fucking believe it could succeed. They couldn't give it the credit for being the great piece of work, and in today's box office environment if something doesn't literally explode out of the theatres in less than two weeks they yank it and send it to DVD. Serenity would have wiped the floor with every other piece of shit movie that came out that year if we weren't in the era of saltine-box multiplexes. It would have started quiet in the tiny distro it was originally given, and just kept on bringing people in, and bringin them in, and bringing them in. It's a gorram good movie, and I could watch it eight or ten times in a row (and I actually did) without getting sick of it.

You're pouty because a character got killed and the movie didn't go the way you wanted it to. But Joss knows very well that producing one bland "the gang's all here" sequel after another (like George Lucas started to do after Empire) will ultimately force you to churn out pablum oriented towards seven-year-olds that your adult audience can just barely stomach. And Whedon isn't quite ready to be a whore like George Lucas. So he takes risks with his characters, and allows their situations to evolve.

He's young yet. I don't think we've seen the last of what he's got to offer. The current film culture of Hollywood is so stagnant and predictable that I think it's highly at risk of being completely blown away by some new emerging dynamic. And I think Joss is part of that.

Re:An opportunity how big?

[modecx]

Do elaborate on this trick.

How about: unexpectedly harpooning one of the much loved heroes through the heart for no good reason, while said character was gloating because he just saved the day not ten seconds prior, simultaneously slaughtering suspension of disbelief, depressing the audience, and ruining the ability of the hero to ever return in any future events in any possible sequel not featuring another lame deus ex machina-esque plot device to undo what had previously been done in a similar manner?

To anyone still wondering: watch the goddamn movie! It's pretty obvious that the event happened because they didn't want to do a sequel--ever.

Re:An opportunity how big?

[Anonymous Coward]

Thank you. Just making sure, though I'd call it more retarded than anything.

You should probably also complain about how Ms. Psychic went out and fought off a hoarde
of psycho's she couldnt stand to be near in hand to hand combat.

Re:An opportunity how big?

[MidnightBrewer]

I agree that it sucked, but I disagree that it's bad storytelling. Just because the good guys don't always get off scott-free and somebody you love dies doesn't make it a bad movie; it just shows that real life sometimes does crap like that to you. It's not all touchy-feely good times all the time. When my own brother died at the age of 16, I thought that was some pretty poor plot development, too. Kudos to Whedon for a ballsy move and taking the movie someplace serious. Sometimes you have to know loss before you can truly appreciate love.

For all you know, he was planning on doing it at some point during the series, anyway. Now you've opened up the possibility of Zoe's character actually going to some dark places as a result that could be quite interesting, as well as making things complicated for the captain (because things never just go smooth.)

Re:An opportunity how big?

[masdog]

I couldn't agree more. Joss's willingness to take risks with his characters makes the stories he is telling more realistic and engaging. It sucked when he killed a fan favorite, but in doing so, he hammered home the fact that the rest of the characters might not survive.

I agree about writing with your own characters. Its very difficult to take risks with them, and in my (mostly unfinished) stories, I had to create red shirts so my stars would make it out all right. As I'm learning now, that doesn't make it fun.

Re:An opportunity how big?

[geminidomino]

But but but...

It had Buffy^WRiver the Reaver-Slayer!!!

Re:An opportunity how big?

[gkhan1]

Well, there's more people than just Tara that dies on Buffy (even though that one hurt the most! I love Tara!). In the second season, Angel goes evil, kills Jenny Calendar, then goes to hell (though he does come back after a few episodes). In the third season, Angel, Wesley and Cordelia leaves for another show (where Cordelia dies a few years later). In the fourth season Oz goes bonkers and goes away (enter Tara), in the fifth season, Buffy and Dawn's mom dies (in the episode The Body, the best episode of Buffy), and then in the season finale Buffy herself dies! In the sixth season, Tara dies and Willow go evil and starts to skin people. In the seventh season, well.... Jonathan dies. Not a major character, but he has stuck around from season 1. Then in the last episode, Anya and Spike kicks the bucket (although Spike return in Angel).

My point? It is indeed vintage Joss to kill off characters

Re:An opportunity how big?

[Chris_Jefferson]

The major reason it did badly at the Box Office is everyone "knew" it was a sequel to the Firefly TV series. At some point I might watch Firefly, and then I'll watch Serenity. No-one who hasn't seen Firefly and knew it was a sequel was going to watch it.

Re:An opportunity how big?

[Anonymous Coward]

Serenity wasn't bad; it certainly compared well to anything else out that summer. But it still just wasn't "Firefly". I don't necessarily have a problem with Joss killing off characters - it does lend a sense of how dangerous it is to go up against just about everyone else in the universe. (After Wash's death, I was half expecting _everybody_ to die in the big shootout. I'd hate to see it, but it would be very different for a Hollywood film to have all the good guys die and the bad guys win. I could see Joss doing that, just to shake things up.) What was disappointing was that Serenity wasn't quite "Firefly, Season 2". Some of it is intentional - Firefly has a warm feel; the lighting, the interaction of the characters, etc. Serenity is much colder - everyone is on edge, the lighting is cold and bluish. It gets across the feeling that everyone's running tired after hiding for two years. But there's also less witty dialog, and the characters are devoid of any depth. River goes from a sensitive portrait of a troubled young girl to a generic gymnast-assassin. There's absolutely no explanation of Shepherd Book's past (one of the big mysteries from Firefly). There's no development in the relationships. It's all sci-fi, no western - where's the cattle, or the blues guitar? It felt like someone took the general Firefly idea, then had someone who never saw Firefly write the script.

I dunno. Maybe that didn't affect sales, but it seems like it was an okay sci-fi movie but only a mediocre sequel for Firefly. Like Buffy, there may be only so many good scripts to be made before it's best to find a new idea. Better to end the series with a run of really good episodes rather than linger on with inconsistent and poorly written stories.

Re:An opportunity how big?

[Anonymous Coward]

i gotta disagree with ya. i never followed firefly and some fans convinced me, a pretty big geek, and a comic shop owner to watch it. we both thought it sucked. in fact so much so, that previously i had been curious about the show, but not anymore, it robbed me of any desire to watch more. maybe it made more sense if you watched the show, but to me the major plot points fell pretty short - the girls rages disappear just cause she visits the planet with not too much explanation(the planet's problem was explained, but not why the girl suddenly got better, which the story had been revolving around), the bad guys whose name i forget that show up for the 2nd half were not really shown that much - i got the impression people were scared of them, but without much showing of them i wasn't scared of them myself, they were just extras and then the movie ends. maybe i missed bits, cause i really was getting bored in the theatre.
 
of course, i'm expecting to get lynched now, but i just wanted to say that it wasn't completely that it was under advertised. a lot of people came out of that movie and told friends to not bother watching it unless they were already firefly fans. i know i was one. the movie didn't stand on it's own enough, it pretty much required that you watched and liked the show. but then again i like babylon 5 movies and they are just like that, no point in watching them unless you followed the show.

Re:An opportunity how big?

[Catbeller]

No, Joss stated that one of the characters would have to die, for thematic reasons. No studio head demanded it.

Joss NEVER planned on killing the series.

AND. Do remember that he ain't necessarily gonna stay dead. He was stabbed through the chest, and the crew had to leave on that instant, abandoning the body. In SF/Comics world, he could have been saved unbeknownst to them, and returned at some point in a series or new movie.

Re:An opportunity how big?

[modecx]

Just to make it clear, I don't think it was bad story telling, nor did I think it was a bad movie. I just didn't like the way it unfolded. I think it was designed to artifically put an end to the story all together, to make the masses of fans finally realize that it's not going any further. I sat there in the theatre and said exaclty this "Welp, so much for that. We'll never see Firefly again, no matter how well this movie does." I don't deny that there are many opportunities for story development despite or because of Wash's demise, it's just that I'm 99.9% sure that the story will not get the opportunity to grow outside of fan fiction. And that is basically the source of my disappointment.

That's also not to say that I expect everyone not in a red shirt should be a superman/woman. But on the other hand, it's science fiction. Protagonists, even secondary protagonists, should at least be a little exceptional. It's not real life, that's kinda' the point. Sucks that your brother died so young, though. Sorry.

Re:An opportunity how big?

[modecx]

Joss NEVER planned on killing the series.

Maybe. But in the event that he/they did plan on killing the series, he basically has to say that anyway, otherwise risk of alienating his fanbase--sort of like how mothers have to say their kids are handsome, even if their faces most resemble the south end of a northbound Shar Pei.

In SF/Comics world, he could have been saved unbeknownst to them, and returned at some point in a series or new movie.

Yeah. He could come back as a Reaver or some kind of undead and be saved somehow, or not... But whatever. As I've mentioned before, I'm not incredibly fond of deus ex machina type plot mechanics, unless they're used for comedic value, as in Life of Brian, for example. I guess we'll have to wait and see, my feeling is that we shouldn't hold our breath.

Re:An opportunity how big?

[MidnightBrewer]

I agree with your points about "we watch fiction because it isn't real life," as well as the fact that the ending was a bit contrived (Book went from saying he'd reveal his past someday to "ain't never gonna happen.") It felt like Firefly as a whole got a bit quashed, but I think that Whedon's point was that he had a chance to take the series as it was out in a blaze of glory, rather than the fizzle-as-dictated-by-Fox.

Re:What's the big deal?

[kfg]

I have seen the show. I have not seen Serenity. The show did not inspire me to spend money to see more of it. Isn't that where we came into this movie?

Perhaps I just do not like Whedon. I don't get the whole Buffy thing either, it's boring. How that particular collection of women can be boring is beyond me, I should be perfectly happy spending hours just watching them play Scrabble or something, but it is. My life would have been better without Alien Resurrection and other than a few bits of interesting animation the only thing Titan A.E. had going for it was Drew Barrymore's voice (and you can have the rest of Drew Barrymore. I don't want it).

Firefly was ok, at least it didn't bore me and bits of it were damned funny; and I'd spend hours watching Morena Baccarin eat a bowl of pus, but I've seen Kurosawa and Leone, so I'd basically seen it all before in a different set of dress up.

I probably would have liked Outland a lot better too if I hadn't been sitting there through the whole picture thinking, "High Noon in . . .spaaaace, spaaaace, spaaaaaaaaaaaace!"

So, I didn't feel like repeating the experience with Serenity.

If you liked it, that's cool. I'm not trying to insult your taste or anything. . .I just don't understand it.

KFG

This will be a devistating blow

[Anonymous Coward]

This will be a devistating blow to millions of homosexuals everywhere.

Re:FOR FUCK'S SAKE!

[enjerth]

If Whedon said "There will NEVER be a Serenity 2," and CNN ran the story, and then if Whedon came back to say that he "didn't mean that there WILL never be a Serenity 2," I'd believe him.

That's really the issue here. Do you believe Joss or IGN about what Joss was saying?

Re:What's the big deal?

[stonedonkey]

Thank God you're not the only one. I can't believe I got this far before someone finally pointed out that Joss Whedon's newest statements do not, in fact, refute the original article.
Here's more of Whedon's newest statements, but I pieced them together differently and got a much different result.

Here's a thing: when "Firefly" was cancelled, my heart got broke. Sounds a bit much, but it changed me. Not even "Serenity" could patch that wound. I'm wearier, warier -- after all those years as a movie writer, you'd think I'd be prepared for another lesson on my unimportance in the scheme of things, but I wasn't. There are two very separate worlds: the marketplace, and the bustling bazaar that is my brain...You know the horse caught bwtween two pools of water? Add seven pools, and make the horse wicked A.D.D. The other world, the marketplace, I don't even begin to understand or predict. All these rumor of projects or the death of projects... When the two worlds align and something actually happens, whatever it is, you guys know I'll be on this site as soon as I'm allowed to be. And I'll be very very clear. There is no news. Not never, just now. I'm off to lunch with Lonelygirl.

Either the submitter is not reading clearly or is not being honest with him or herself. Whedon does not refute the original article's claim. All he is saying is "never say never." He's not being cleverly vague. He's trying to tell you gently.

In other news

[CloudsSpaz]

The Butterfly Effect 2 will be on DVD soon.

Oh, wait, this is slashdot...

Uhh... hooray, BSG is back?

It's fucking heartbreaking

[Maximilio]

I was at DragonCon in Atlanta a few weeks ago. And let me tell you, if you weren't there (I have this suspicion that many /.'ers probably were) -- the lines to see Wash and River (or Alan Tudyk and Summer Glau) were so long that people queued up three and four hours in advance. And stood there for even longer waiting to get to the head of the line, just to meet them and get their autographs.

They were competing with Star Wars cast, Star Trek cast, BSG cast and Stargate, and who knows who else, and every single one of those franchises had seen more airtime and more hours filmed than the entire Firefly universe, but those two were the most popular people by an outrageous margin. I would say an entire order of magnitutde.

Now consider how financially successful Star Treks and Star Warses have been and how hard to you have to slap FOX executives up one side and down the other for intentionally strangling this wonderful series so cruelly that the creator cannot even rationally consider attempting to bring it back to life?

It's Very Simple

[JBrow]

There will be more Serenity / Firefly when the money is there. Period.

Re:What's the big deal?

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't get the whole Buffy thing either, it's boring. How that particular collection of women can be boring is beyond me

Maybe you're gay? :)

Re:FOR FUCK'S SAKE!

[rk]

Refresh my memory. Was Laura Ingalls or Nellie Olsen the hooker?

I'm okay with it.

[Wicked Zen]

I never saw Firefly until earlier this year when I rented the series. Then I saw Serenity. Loved them both, and now I've moved on with my life. Here's to hoping Joss Whedon does the same. I'd like to see what else he has yet to come up with.

The second quote in the Slashdot summary...

[professorfalcon]

Huh?

Bigots suck

[SuperKendall]

How do you know what people who like Nascar ike and do not like? Saying "WWF" fans cannot enjoy Serenity is like saying that black people lack the mental capactity to enjoy fine entertainment or sitting in the front seats of busses. Believe it or not, people once thought that skin color determined brain power and now you are saying the same just because someone likes cars!

People are far more complex than your simplistic black and white worldview would suggest. Furthermore cars are a haven for nerdery with all kinds of technical aspects involved. I know plenty of engineering folk deeply into Nascar, and they can enjoy a lot of other things as well...

Narrow-minded bigots like you disgust me, no matter where the bigotry is aimed. Gay people, Nascar fans, deeply religious people, all deserve some measure of respect for the life they have chosen no matter what your personal feelings on the matter are. Rethink your outlook on what people are and are not capible of mentally and don't judge books by one of the covers.

Re:Bigots suck

[Anonymous Coward]

I know plenty of engineering folk deeply into Nascar

As in Sanitation Engineer?

Re:Bigots suck

[Anonymous Coward]

1. No, it's not.

2. WWF is World Wrestling Federation not NASCAR.

3. The people who watch NASCAR or The WWE[F] probably wouldn't like Serenity or Firefly. Sorry, it's not an intelligence call it's a demographic.

4. You're NASCAR fans = blacks analogy sucks. Come up with something better. Obviously what blacks in America went through was much worse than someone saying NASCAR or WWE[F] fans can't appreciate the "greatness" of Firefly or Serenity. Way to be overly dramatic, though.

5. It's NASCAR not Nascar. It's spelled in all capital letters. If you don't think so check nascar.com.

As an example (from their know your NASCAR history page):

1949: The birth of NASCAR

The NASCAR Strictly Stock Series (now the NASCAR Winston Cup Series) was born in 1949, and the first in a long line of NASCAR champions emerged. A former World War II aviator has the honor of being known as the first champion of NASCAR's premier division.

6. We get it. You love NASCAR. You're offended when people think you're an idiot for liking NASCAR (or the WWE[F]). Don't miss the spitoon next time you try to defend your idiot self, Jethro.

Re:Bigots suck

[kalidasa]

Actually, no, saying that NASCAR fans cannot enjoy Serenity is nothing like saying something about black people. Enjoying Serenity is a taste; enjoying NASCAR is a taste. Confusing these categories with "racial," ethnic, sectarian, or sexual categories is simply wrong. Mind you, I'm sure that there are many brilliant NASCAR fans out there. (As for WWE, well, that's another story ...)

Not as sure about that...

[SuperKendall]

I'm not totally sure there is a core fanbase as dedicated to Serenity as Star Wars or Star Trek.

I was at a Serenity only convention last December, which was pretty cool as pretty much the whole cast was there (only Zoe missing) and even Josh showed up briefly (even a few guest apperances like the girl who played Ms. Reyonlds). The entire two or three days was spent on panels about Serenity, with some of the creative folk (like the graphics designer, very awesome talk) and many talks with different mixtures of the crew cast members including some great on-the fly commentary of a few episodes (mostly Nathan as you'd expect).

So that was great. However, I was dissapointed with the fans that turned out. First of all just a few hundred people showed up for this amazing convention with unpreciidented access to the cast. Ok, I'm willing to put that down to the price which I can't remember but it was a little high.

The people that were there though didn't really dress up much, or really seem quite as into the whole thing as I would have thought.

Right after that convention, I remember thinking it would be a whlile before we saw a new Serenity project...

I sure hope we see something else again; I want to know what is in Inara's box! (get your mind out of the gutter).

Re:Not as sure about that...

[Maximilio]

Where was it? How much did it cost? How easy was it for people to find out about it?

DragonCon has been running in the same place at the same time every year for a couple of decades. So I'd put a little more stock in the attendance there, which was in the thousands easily.

Do the friggin Math...

[Genda]

"Nobody ever got poor underestimating the taste of the American public..."

Face it my darlings... the lot of you for the most part belong somewhere between 1 and 3 sigma out from the average intelligence and taste of the American public, and though that means there are millions of you, in the great scheme of things, you are VASTLY outnumbered by the unwashed and unthinking masses.

Not bad (unless you're concerned about about folks not teaching evolution or electing idiots for public office), but it's kind of life as we know it, right? So one can't be terribly surprised when a piece of thoughtful, interesting, artistically complex entertainment goes over with the general public with all the excitement of passing gas in a crowded elevator. The majority of our neighbors like their thoughts (and entertainment) thoroughly chewed, predigested, and handed to them on bland little primetime crackers (preferably on the FOX channel.)

Firefly, and Serenity were/are lovely creations, intelligent, dialog that at once demonstrated working brain cells, and an equaly working imagination. Even a commitment to artistic integrity, not taking the easy or even happy path, just because it would leave some unhappy... no formulaic end, sorry.

I hope that sequel 2 the revenge is made... I like thoughtful art. I'm just not holding my breath.

UPDATE ???

[lsm2006]

What, the comment from Joss deserves only an "update" to an existing item? This is Joss Whedon! I know it's only been a few hours, but that's the tradition with Firefly/Serenity news. Give it a NEW ITEM.

Bah!

[Greyfox]

What's the point in creating characters everyone knows and loves if you're not going to do anything with 'em? Well... not me I mean. I've never seen it and from the looks of things it's like getting a taste of sweet, sweet crack and then having your dealer go missing. So I refuse! Therefore I shall smugly cross my arms and talk about how B5 was superior and also lasted 5 years, content in my ignorance! Because the alternative sounds like it'd be worse. Hah! Put that in your crack pipe and smoke it!

So they did take the sky from us.

[sam991]

He chusheng zajiao de zanghuo!

wsoot, now if we could erase the master tapes...

[Chadhulhu]

Goddamn, that is great news. That was a PoS show, and the networks knew it for once. He is not the greatest writer in the world, come on. I am glad it is gone, i really am, and yes I watched the series and the movie, wanted to see what fan saw, I saw a premise that was weak, actors who were weaker. meh.

Good riddance.

[jotaeleemeese]

As movies go, that one was pretty dire, it contributed little to the SciFI genre, it had an idiotic, unbelivable plot. Unless you think it is a good idea to dispatch your enemies with a samurai sword when you have weapons that can obliterate full planets and you don't care much about mass murder.

No wonder the movie lost money.

If anything it put me off looking at the series on DVD (in most places out of the US the movie came first than the series, the later may not have shown at all).

Book

[Poromenos1]

He was a hired assassin that found God.

So there you have it :P

Movie Wash is not Tara/Buffy's Mom/Anya

[ronanm]

If you didn't think something like that was vintage Joss, you don't really know his style.

I agree that it was vintage Joss, and because of that unsurprising. Book's death was crap, not the being killed off but the still being alive to die just before the doctor reaches him. Wash's death was even more boring. He was probably the most uninteresting character in the film. There was nothing between him and Zoe, and all of a sudden she's greaving over his death.

Serenity was one of the better SF films to come out in recent years but the plot is contrived and the final act is just too unoriginal. I do agree that the promotion was not so shiny, but I don't think that Serenity approached anywhere near the quality of Firefly. If it had been as good as Ariel/Out of Gas/Our Mrs Reynolds it would have (imho) been a much bigger success.

Re:Movie Wash is not Tara/Buffy's Mom/Anya

[MooUK]

"There was nothing between him and Zoe"

Oh dear. I take it you weren't paying attention then? They were husband and wife. Try watching the Firefly series.

Re:Movie Wash is not Tara/Buffy's Mom/Anya

[Lurker2288]

I think the point the GP was making was that there was nothing between them in the movie, and it's true. The movie didn't do much with Jane, or Wash (to say nothing of Book and Inara who barely had any presence). It's probably unavoidable, though--there just wasn't enough screen time to do everything we would have wanted to see from the characters.

Re:Movie Wash is not Tara/Buffy's Mom/Anya

[ronanm]

Oh dear. I take it you weren't paying attention then? They were husband and wife.

I obviously wasn't paying attention the first time, because I missed the one reference in the film to them being married.

I've watched Firefly several times, and I felt that the characters were alive and real, but the film did not have the same level of believability. I know that it's a "2 hour movie" but it was trying to be too many things with too many people. We could easily have ignored Book and Inara completely, just gone with the people on the ship and then after making the Audience get to know and like Wash, BAM!, wooden stake through the heart. What we got was Jayne taking all his funny and then slayer girl River taking his role as pilot.

Try watching the Firefly series.

Try reading the subject line.

Re:What's the big deal?

[Anonymous Coward]

Before you all go fanboy on me, you have to admit that all she did in the series was scream, "Auuuuughuuuuahah!" and hold her head in pain

Well, that and shoot people. "No power in the 'verse can stop me". But yes, aside from the shooting people dead while looking away from them, she didn't do much. Well, the more specific mind readingy bits too. And occasional bits of athleticism I think. Certainly stealing the ship from the bounty hunter. But not realy much.

Re:What's the big deal?

[Anonymous Coward]

Not that I see much of a connection between Serenity and A Fistful of Dollars, but when you claim that one is the original base for the other, you do realize that the Fistful is not an original work? It's a shot-by-shot remake of Kurosawa's "Yojimbo".

Re:No loss (character reuse)

[hson]

Then you're clearly not aware of the fact that not only does he use old cliches he also re-uses his own character archetypes over and over again. Same characters, different names.

Yes, he does, over, and over, and over, and over...

As a friend of mine once said, "The only reason Wash was killed in Serenity, was so Joss could do what he had wanted to do for the last four years of Buffy - kill Xander".

I'll get modded down for this, but the truth hurts browncoats.

Zzzzzz

[Digital Vomit]

Wake me when Serenity: Special Edition comes out. I can't wait to see Wash shoot a giant spike at the Reavers first.

Re:Zzzzzz

[VENONA]

Now *that* was funny!

Re:What's the big deal?

[kfg]

Not that I see much of a connection between Serenity and A Fistful of Dollars

I have not seen Serenity, so I cannot make any such comparison.

. . . but when you claim that one is the original base for the other. . .

And I made no such claim.

. . .you do realize that the Fistful is not an original work? It's a shot-by-shot remake of Kurosawa's "Yojimbo".

That would be the second time I saw it, yes. Fistful came to my local theater on first release; Yojimbo did not. By the time I'd seen Yojimbo I'd also read much of Kurosawa's background material, written by people like Shakespeare, Dostoevsky and . . .Hammet. He'd also obviously watched a lot of American Westerns. Since that time I've also seen Mad Max and Last Man Standing.

So I'd seen a lot of Firefly before. I'm clueless about Serenity. When the DVD hits my local libray I'll give it a look. In the meantime there are worse ways I can spend my time than to watch Yojimbo again.

KFG

Re:FOR FUCK'S SAKE!

[marcsherman]

"Little House on the Prairie - IN SPACE" failed. Get over it.

No, man, you got it wrong. It's live action Rocket Robin Hood. They're thieves with a heart of gold, being chased by an evil government, through a stylized modern-primitive setting, and they travel with a hedonist priest.

So the important question is, in fact, is Maid Marion the hooker or the engineer with the vibrator?

Re:FOR FUCK'S SAKE!

[Anonymous Coward]

> There's entire fucking ELIGONS

Oh, nooooo!!! The ELIGONS are multiplying!! Flee for the hills!

Thank God!

[CountBrass]

Loved Firefly but Serenity sucked big time. I was so embarassed after taking my wife to see it "This is great" I told her "intelligent sci-fi, you'll love it". It stank! It was like he tried to fit three series into a single film and boy did it show. Everything rushed, nothing made sense. Just goes to show that tv making skills don't necessarily transfer to the big screen. So no more Serenity; WOOHOO! Now, how about some more Firefly?

Re:No loss (character reuse)

[WilliamSChips]

Both Wash and Xander were supposed to be Joss's projections of himself onto the show. They're supposed to be like him.

Q: Does the Firefly Ship - set - still exist ?

[Anonymous Coward]

With Star Trek Auctioning off over $4 million of stuff this week,
I was wondering if the FireFly set still existed - or did it get trashed after the movie?

Now the set could be rebuilt - but if the ship still was 'standing' that would mean someone
was saving it for something.

Plenty of Room for 3 more movies:
2. The Settling and Terraforming of the planets (good TV series there),
3. The Brown coat wars (At least one good big screen / DVD release movie),
1. And the story of leaving the old Earth that Was. (A Spent, polluted, overpopulated, hell of climate out of control Earth) - Another good movie, or 3 or 4 more episodes for the Prequel TV series.

Add onto the pile of syndication sales the DVD sales, iTunes downloads - direct to DVD opportunities -
their is penty of room for his 'Universe' in the market - and No competition from Star Trek - the timing might be just perfect!

Just gotta get the capital / creatives / marketing together and rebuild the show better-faster-cheaper!

Dedication

[pipingguy]

Personally, I didn't care for Firefly or Serenity. This is because I'm a two-dimensional, shallow person who just wants simple entertainment on TV and in movies.

If I want to think and be mentally challenged, I read.

I find it amusing that so many fans of "intelligent" science fiction seem to fall into the soap opera-type trap wherein they apparently vicariously get emotionally involved. Firefly and the new Battlestar Galactica slots nicely into the soap opera category but with the occasional lasers, aliens, robots and spaceships.

Re:FOR FUCK'S SAKE!

[Son.Of.Dad]

It was Nelly freakingOlsen, Gorram it!

I liked the Matrix sequels

[WilliamSChips]

What was wrong with them? Aside from the ten-minute dancing scene in the second movie, you won't give me anything specific, and when you do it'll probably be moronic stuff of the "Han shoots first" variety.

Serenity's not coming back, just accept that!

[WilliamSChips]

Sorry, that's what your title reminded me of.

Oh well

[Lord Kestrel]

I've never seen the show, but I saw Serenity for the first time last night. It's an ok movie, but nothing special. Normally they'd make sequels anyway, because that's what Hollywood does, but it doesn't seem like much of a loss that they aren't planning on making one in this case.

Flanvention

[SuperKendall]

It was called the "Big Damn Flanvention". I forgot how I read about it but it's not like I followed Serenity sites religiously... I know for sure it was posted on anything that had anything to do with Browncoats.

It was in LA at a Holiday Inn, around the start of December last year.

Being in California and LA, I really expected more people and as I said more dressing up. It sure did seem like a lot of people knew about it, but also (at least from the people in my area) it seemed for some reason like most Serenity fans just had no money and therefore could not go.

And it's on again...

[SuperKendall]

Looks like they are holding the Flanvention again...

As for how much (not answered before), $229 for a weekend pass. But look at the guest list - and you see them quite often, as well as getting a signing opportunity and if you want to pay a bit more a photo op as well.

I think that's about the same cost as last year... it will be interesting to see if they do better this year, though I cannot attend to see.

Part of my assesment wrong

[SuperKendall]

Something I did not realize until just now, was that there was a limit of 500 tickets sold to the Flanvention - which is why there were not more people there. So I was probably too harsh in my opinion of popularity.

It doesn't excuse the lack of costume though...

Sorry about all the messages.

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