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What Not To Do With Your Data

Tiny Tim writes "Stupidity strikes! A data recovery company has revealed the dumbest data disasters it's confronted this year — including rotting bananas, smelly socks and a university professor's foolhardy application of WD-40."

319 comments

  1. nonsense! by gEvil+(beta) · · Score: 4, Funny

    Nonsense! I once turned a 5400RPM drive into a 7200RPM drive merely by giving it a good squirt of WD-40. I swear!

    --
    This guy's the limit!
    1. Re:nonsense! by zhouray · · Score: 5, Funny

      Damn! Now I think of Steve Ballmer every time I see the word "squirt". =(

    2. Re:nonsense! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      funny, I always think of something more attractive which has breasts....

    3. Re:nonsense! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, I think about your mother alot as well:)

    4. Re:nonsense! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      Tranny Ballmer is not more attractive than regular Ballmer.

    5. Re:nonsense! by Jesus_666 · · Score: 1

      Ladies and gentlemen, we present to you this season's lame Slashdot joke! (Don't worry if you find it funny. It'll lose its charm in about ten or twenty repetitions.)

      --
      USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
    6. Re:nonsense! by thepotoo · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Ladies and gentlemen, we present to you this season's lame Slashdot joke! (Don't worry if you find it funny. It'll lose its charm in about ten or twenty repetitions.)

      A guy with a sig like yours has no right to talk ;)

      --
      Obligatory Soundbite Catchphrase
    7. Re:nonsense! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That comment is wrong on so many levels... Including the fact that it was modded as 'Informative'.

    8. Re:nonsense! by Neoncow · · Score: 1
      It'll lose its charm in about ten or twenty repetitions
      Just you wait until someone superimposes Ballmer's head onto a cetain pokemon. Then the joke will never die! It may, however, faint when overused..
    9. Re:nonsense! by Jesus_666 · · Score: 2, Funny

      A guy with a sig like yours has no right to talk ;)

      You see, I'm an expert.

      --
      USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
    10. Re:nonsense! by dwater · · Score: 1

      WD-40? Is that a WD-40BB or WD-40JB?

      I didn't know they still made 4GB disks. I used the 200GB ones myself - the WD-2000.

      --
      Max.
    11. Re:nonsense! by texaport · · Score: 1
      once turned a 5400RPM drive into a 7200RPM drive merely by giving it a good squirt of WD-40. I swear!


      That's nothing -- back in the 386-era of forty megabyte Western Digital drives, I once saw an MSCE use STAC compression on a server hard drive to turn a WD40 into a WD80. I swore!
       

    12. Re:nonsense! by SonicSpike · · Score: 1

      I did it by stepping up the voltage! ;-)

      --
      Libertas in infinitum
  2. Privacy aspect by tomalpha · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What's interesting about this story is how easy it might be for *others* to recover your data after you think you've wiped it.

    1. Re:Privacy aspect by steveo777 · · Score: 1

      Very good call. Anybody know of any usefull tools to completely wipe the contents of a drive?

      --
      This sig isn't original enough, it's time to come up with something witty...
    2. Re:Privacy aspect by LordSnooty · · Score: 5, Funny

      Yeah - a chainsaw, a garbage compacter and a wood chipper. And a rocket to launch the fragments into space.

    3. Re:Privacy aspect by archen · · Score: 1

      You mean like DBAN? One of the problem with "utilities" is they require the drive to function in order for you to wipe it. And some times you can get a drive working again by just replacing some of the electronics typically found on the bottom of the drive. Taking the platters and putting them on an equivalent drive is probably also somewhat doable. Really though, when your drive no longer spins you have to resort to physical destruction of the platters - and you really do need to be thorough.

    4. Re:Privacy aspect by Calinous · · Score: 1

      Ten times formatted? No problem - you've just lost the file allocation tables, every other byte is still intact - you end up with a puzzle of data you need to consolidate. I wonder how did they manage to recover data from the bananadisk

    5. Re:Privacy aspect by steveo777 · · Score: 1

      Right, well, I've got a laptop drive that's starting to make noise. It's under warentee, but I'd rather when I send it back that the info is completely missing. Nothing important, but I don't like the idea of the vendor knowing what my finances and the like are.

      --
      This sig isn't original enough, it's time to come up with something witty...
    6. Re:Privacy aspect by networkBoy · · Score: 3, Interesting

      When a drive is to be re-used within the company I work for we do a "secure erase" using a utility IT has blessed. If a drive is to leave the company it is wiped with the assistance of a 1/4" drill bit through the platters in at least three places.

      A hard drive is cheap. Company data (or potentially incriminating data for those of us at home) is not.
      -nB

      --
      whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
    7. Re:Privacy aspect by brunascle · · Score: 1

      isnt that only if you do a "quick format"? i thought a full format set everything to 0?

    8. Re:Privacy aspect by PRC+Banker · · Score: 2, Funny

      I don't know how effective this is, but it's how I discard an old HDD, and it's fun! 1. Dismantle (sometimes hard to do) 2. Scrape platters with wire-gauze 3. Put drive plates in a fire for a few minutes, enough to warp a little 4. Randomly punish - skate on concrete, etc 5. Place in water, for a few months (toilet tank) 6. Discard

      --
      Oh.
    9. Re:Privacy aspect by Rastignac · · Score: 1

      All of your wiped data are belong to others ;)

      --
      -- Rastignac was here.
    10. Re:Privacy aspect by Sangui5 · · Score: 1

      If the drive still works, Eraser (http://www.heidi.ie/eraser/) is a great choice. Wipe one file or every block device on the machine. Nothing will be able to get it back after a Gutmann wipe.

      If the drive doesn't work, disassemble the drive, remove the magnets (to play with later), and apply a combination of sandpaper and a hammer to the platters. Yeah, magnetic force microscopy might still get it back, but who'd pay that much for your mostly worthless data anyway?

    11. Re:Privacy aspect by tom17 · · Score: 1

      How do they do the drilling on the drives of laptops that get stolen?

    12. Re:Privacy aspect by jimstapleton · · Score: 1

      replace "x" with your hard drive's device

      I like to run this (10 times) for a quite secure erase:

      cat /dev/zero > /dev/x
      cat /dev/random > /dev/x

      I'd put it in 10 times, but, slashdot complains

      --
      34486853790
      Connection too slow for X forwarding? Try "ssh -CX user@host"
    13. Re:Privacy aspect by OmnipotentEntity · · Score: 2, Informative

      Problem is, if the drive has any bad sectors, that fails and leaves the rest of the drive unerased.

      I use badblocks read-write test. It's designed to do stuff like that.

      --
      "Build a man a fire warm him for a day, set a man on fire and warm him for the rest of his life."
    14. Re:Privacy aspect by tdemark · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I don't think it's the company you have to worry about. It's the person they send your drive to after they refurbish it you should be concerned about.

    15. Re:Privacy aspect by ehrichweiss · · Score: 1

      I've heard that the 3-letter government agencies could retrieve data even if the drive were wiped 80 times BUT I also know from friends who are former hackers turned LEO that they actually don't have to look beyond someone doing a simple format most of the time since people are typically stupid in that regard.

      --
      0x09F911029D74E35BD84156C5635688C0
    16. Re:Privacy aspect by archen · · Score: 2, Informative

      dban should be find then. If time is a constraint then you just need 4 random passes over the drive. Personally I like the Gutman wipe with the 27 voodoo passes. Of course it doesn't work on any spare sectors, but assuming there isn't anything that fits on a sector that is critical that should be fine.

    17. Re:Privacy aspect by antifoidulus · · Score: 3, Funny

      You put your hd in the toilet? Are you hoping to make next years list?

    18. Re:Privacy aspect by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      The fire is probably all you actually need to do. Bonus points for heating it to the curie point, which should randomize the magnetic domains. Curie point is different for different materials... But of course, once all the coating is gone, what's left these days is usually Al or glass, and neither one has magnetic domains.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    19. Re:Privacy aspect by drinkypoo · · Score: 5, Funny
      Anybody know of any usefull tools to completely wipe the contents of a drive?

      Yes. I call it "thermite".

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    20. Re:Privacy aspect by Xugumad · · Score: 1

      What do you call easy? You're probably looking at a few thousand dollars to retrieve the data on a drive, if you have to have it done professionally (in a sending it to the lab sense), assuming the owner has at least done a decent job of blanking it (zeroing all the bits or similar). Sure, it's feasible, but it's generally much easier to buy random drives on eBay, as you're almost guaranteed one that someone forgot to wipe before selling...

    21. Re:Privacy aspect by Calinous · · Score: 1

      My bad... (normal) format in MS-DOS took like seconds for a hard drive. It just wiped out the file table. Now, the format in Windows seems to exercise the hard drive real hard.

    22. Re:Privacy aspect by atta1 · · Score: 3, Informative

      No, it doesn't. All a full format does is relabel all the sectors and erase the FAT or MFT.

      --
      "The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote" -- Kosh
    23. Re:Privacy aspect by Mawbid · · Score: 5, Interesting
      Heh, yeah. I remember when my company bought a hard drive (sold as new, not refurbished) with an ntfs partition on it and a whole lot of personal data. There were pictures of a father and his baby taking a bath. Awww, isn't that sweet?.

      I'm pretty sure the person who turned the disk in, if they thought about it at all, assumed that surely the shop would wipe the disk before reselling it. Well, clearly that's not something you can count on.

      --
      Fuck the system? Nah, you might catch something.
    24. Re:Privacy aspect by Mister+Whirly · · Score: 4, Funny

      With very, very long drill bits.

      --
      "But this one goes to 11!"
    25. Re:Privacy aspect by ultranova · · Score: 1

      Yeah - a chainsaw, a garbage compacter and a wood chipper. And a rocket to launch the fragments into space.

      There's always the chance that someone might glue the fragments back together. Melt the darn thing, I say. If you don't have actual smelting utilities, I'd imagine that an arc welder would work fine too, if applied to the whole surface area of each plate. Or just coat it the plates with magnesium and set them ablaze.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    26. Re:Privacy aspect by CthulhuDreamer · · Score: 1

      "Sure, it's feasible, but it's generally much easier to buy random drives on eBay, as you're almost guaranteed one that someone forgot to wipe before selling..."

      Why bother with eBay? Just go to the local Fry's and buy a new one off the shelf and odds are in your favor that it's a customer-returned unit full of goodies. (We're 2 for 3 on getting "pre-loaded" drives. It's amazing what people will leave on their drives.)

    27. Re:Privacy aspect by ultranova · · Score: 4, Funny

      How do they do the drilling on the drives of laptops that get stolen?

      They don't. Instead they just use Sony's batteries. Takes care of both data and thief in one blow.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    28. Re:Privacy aspect by db32 · · Score: 2, Funny

      We frequently use a heavy duty degausser for real wiping, but it also destroys the drive. But sometimes we get creative.

      We had 40 gateways that just as the warranty expired started failing like clockwork. 6 out of 40 in the first month or two after it expired so we fought with them and got a free warranty extension on them. One of the hard drives that failed on us had to be sent back for replacement...so our boss told us to make sure that the data was gone and do it "however you want". So after running a data wiping tool writing a pattern to the drive X times, we took it out and proceded to use a jackhammer on it. We tried to pick up as many pieces as we could...some were quite small since it was a laptop drive...and we packed it up nice and neat in its little antistatic bag and sent it back to the company in bits.

      --
      The only change I can believe in is what I find in my couch cushions.
    29. Re:Privacy aspect by Firehed · · Score: 1

      If they can recover data from drives wiped eighty times (someone care to explain this to me, and why even a single full-zero write isn't enough? If I can overwrite my data eighty times, why the fuck don't I have a 40TB hard drive?), then why is the DoD spec wiping it a mere seven times last I heard?

      --
      How are sites slashdotted when nobody reads TFAs?
    30. Re:Privacy aspect by eggstasy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Sorry, that just means you eliminated the data on those three specific places. The rest of the platters can still be read, and whole files retrieved. The way data densities are today, even if you shatter a disk into a thousand pieces, a single, 1/1,000th piece of a 300 GB hard drive is still 300 MB... and breaking shit does not demagnetize it.

    31. Re:Privacy aspect by ajs318 · · Score: 1

      If the data on the drive has been overwritten even once, it's impossible for anybody to recover it. Government agencies who claim to have recovered data from overwritten drives have almost certainly done so using rubber-hose methods.

      --
      Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
    32. Re:Privacy aspect by LurkerXXX · · Score: 1

      There are *lots* of them out there. What OS do you want a tool to run under, or do you want it to run off a bootable CD/floppy?

      All you need is a tool that overwrites the drive multiple times. Preferably with all 0's then all 1's then random, then the inverse of that random, etc. DOD grade is 7 overwrites I think. I typically do 13 overwrites on the drives I'm disposing which at one time or another may have had HIPPA protected data on them.

    33. Re:Privacy aspect by moocat2 · · Score: 1

      Anybody know of any usefull [sic] tools to completely wipe the contents of a drive?

      Darik's Boot and Nuke (aka DBAN) available at Sourceforge. It has various settings depending on how paranoid you need to be and how much time you want to take.

    34. Re:Privacy aspect by gweihir · · Score: 1

      I've heard that the 3-letter government agencies could retrieve data even if the drive were wiped 80 times

      Yea, sure. They like to spread that rumour in order to prevent people from wiping at all. It is complete BS with modern drives of course. And with classical ones, maybe 3-4 overwrites, but not really more. There still has not been any demonstrated case where a single overwrite of a modern drive has been recoverd from.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    35. Re:Privacy aspect by Yartrebo · · Score: 1

      Drilling a few holes will leave most of the data there for a determined person to read. Smashing the platters to bits is much more effective, and melting them down completely destroys the data.

    36. Re:Privacy aspect by gweihir · · Score: 1

      isnt that only if you do a "quick format"? i thought a full format set everything to 0?

      For HDDs a quick format has been the same as a full format for a long times in Windows.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    37. Re:Privacy aspect by Yartrebo · · Score: 1

      Perhaps they wrote all-zeroes eighty times. Random data done seven times (or one, zero, one, zero, one, zero, random) should be good enough even against the KGB or CIA.

    38. Re:Privacy aspect by DocSavage64109 · · Score: 1

      Is that why it takes at least 10 minutes to format a hd while installing win2000? or is your idea of a long time different than mine...

    39. Re:Privacy aspect by Dragonslicer · · Score: 1

      I thought the only way to be sure was to nuke it from orbit?

    40. Re:Privacy aspect by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I think the original rumor about wiping with zeros not really wiping enough for 3 letter gov't agencies came that there was residual noise left on the sector (or byte, bit?) that could be reinterpreted to get the original value.

      I guess since a byte on the drive is not a single physical object but rather several magnetic pieces that are rearragned during writes, that the drive normally only cares about what the average value is, but if you look at the distribution of the pieces for that byte, you can theoretically reconstruct what the previous value was.

      If true, then don't wipe with zeros, wipe with differnet random numbers every pass. Wiping with the same number just smoothens the curve, wiping with different numbers every pass increases the noise.

    41. Re:Privacy aspect by badfish99 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The "overwrite eighty times" stuff comes from some studies done in the days of 1GB drives. Basically, consumer-grade hardware in those days was not making full use of the storage capacity of the disks, and more sophisticated equipment could read information from between the tracks where the data was supposed to be stored.

      Drive technology has evolved, and now your disk can store 80 times as much data as in those days, or even more, and there is no longer any wasted space. So the advice about wiping is really out-of-date and useless. But it has passed into folklore, so it still gets done.

      Have a google for "Peter Gutmann" if you want to discover the theory behind all this.

    42. Re:Privacy aspect by Amouth · · Score: 1

      not true.. i have a litte program called Tiramisu Data Recovery right here that i have used to recover data from drives that have been formated and had the OS reinstalled over.

      i remmber one instance when a dumb tech read the wrong sheet.. took a win95 FAT16 computer formatted it and installed win98 FAT32.. I was able to recover the FAT16 partition and restore the whole system back to the orginal state and then install the modem (which was what the damn thing came in for)

      it is amazing what they can do... Ontrack is by far one of the best data recovery companies out there.. You know the shuttle that blew up.. they where able to get 99% of the data back from the drives that where on it.

      short of melting and then grinding and melting and grinding i don't know how you could ever really get rid of the data.

      --
      '...if only "Jumping to a Conclusion" was an event in the Olympics.'
    43. Re:Privacy aspect by networkBoy · · Score: 1

      Laptops use encrypted drives by default. Disabling the encryption is a termination offense.
      -nB

      --
      whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
    44. Re:Privacy aspect by ArsenneLupin · · Score: 1
      we took it out and proceded to use a jackhammer on it. We tried to pick up as many pieces as we could...some were quite small since it was a laptop drive...and we packed it up nice and neat in its little antistatic bag and sent it back to the company in bits.

      And you still got it replaced on warranty after this stunt?

    45. Re:Privacy aspect by networkBoy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's all about being harder to use the data.
      By the time someone has read and re-constituted the data from a drive that damaged the data is likely already public, out of rev, or obsolete.

      It's not like they don't wipe the drive first, it's just that they take the added step of mechanically destroying the drive. It's then off to the recyclers where (I believe) it is, in fact, smelted.
      -nB

      --
      whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
    46. Re:Privacy aspect by Cruise_WD · · Score: 1

      Not as funny as you might think - I remember a very long discussion on the FreeNet mailing lists on the best of quickly erasing your hard drive if the secret (or not so secret) police come storming in the door.

      The final answer was indeed a thermite charge, which was the best for both completeness and speed.

      Note that you the charge should take the RAM with it - if whoever it is comes prepared, the chips will apparently keep their data quite well without power in liquid nitrogen...

      --
      [ cruise / casual-tempest.net / xenogamous.com / transference.org / quantam sufficit ]
    47. Re:Privacy aspect by Sangui5 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Well, that you can recover data doesn't mean you can reliably recover it, or do it fast. Hence no 40TB drives.

      As for how, the short version is that if you write a one and then a zero, you end up with .1; the old value leaks in a bit. When combined with the error correction codes built in to the drive, you stand a decent chance of recovering the overwritten data (slowly, with special read heads/drive electronics, and somewhat error prone). If you overwrite with the same fixed pattern repeatedly, you really don't improve the situation much (diminishing returns on removing the residual bit), so an 80x "wipe" of all zeros may be recoverable (although 80x is a bit much, even for all zeros). But overwriting to DoD spec is probably sufficient in this case, though. So is beating up the physical platters.

      For the really determined attacker, then can use high resolution magnetic force microscopy (MFM). See, when you overwrite, the write head doesn't exactly line up with the old stuff--so you'll have little bits of the old data sticking out from above or below the track. MFM can resolve very localized magnetic fields, far smaller than your disk read head, and can see the misalignment. These misaligned pieces allow peaking back a few generations of overwrite, which allows you to subtract out the newer things (and hence clarify the older). Plus, it doesn't use rapidly spinning the disk, so it can work on beat up platters. Even without misalignment in the generations of overwrite, good MFM can resolve better analog detail as well, so the whole 1 then 0 = .1 thing works better. But it is far too expensive to bother with in most cases.

      A detailed technical paper about the theory of data destruction/recovery on magnetic media can be found here: http://www.usenix.org/publications/library/proceed ings/sec96/full_papers/gutmann/

    48. Re:Privacy aspect by IHateAllofYou · · Score: 1

      DBAN will not work in any server I have tried if your in a company setting. Maybe I'm a screwup though who knows. Tried Compaq (SmartArray Controller) Dell (Perc both I and not I) Supermicro (whatever it had) HP (SmartArray again) IBM (ServeRaid 8k) Didn't bother trying a Sun server after that since none of the others seemed to work correctly. Best bet in those cases is RHEL on 1 drive in something that holds 4 or so hard drives and just write something to dump random/urandom/zero to it like already mentioned.

    49. Re:Privacy aspect by ajs318 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Changing from FAT16 to FAT32 doesn't overwrite most of the disk. FAT16 and FAT32 are very similar internally, so a drive already formatted as FAT16 just needs to have a FAT32 FAT written to it to make it FAT32.

      Windows also has different FAT entries for "freshly formatted" and "deleted files", preferring not to overwrite a deleted file if it can avoid it. When you convert a disk from FAT16 to FAT32, the reformatter actually respects previously deleted files. If there was enough room on the drive to fit all of Windows 98 on there away from the existing Windows 95 installation, then that's what it would have done.

      You can't recover genuinely-overwritten data with software. A disk drive is designed so that, as far as anything talking to the drive through the proper interface is concerned, a one which used to be a zero is indistinguible from a one which has always been a one, and a zero which has always been a zero is indistinguible from a zero which used to be a one. But very often, data isn't actually overwritten, because of the way Windows tries not to overwrite old data. Other OSes aren't so recovery-friendly. There was talk a few years ago about being able to recover imperfectly-overwritten data if the head wandered slightly, but today's data densities mean less head wander. And there's more data on a disk nowadays, most of which isn't relevant. If you tried to use magnetic force microscopy, it would take you a very long time -- several years -- to recover the missed data; you probably wouldn't get all of it; and you would not have any clue which bits were the bits you wanted.

      I stand by my assertion that one overwrite pass will put any data well out of OnTrack's reach. I haven't got the money to waste proving it, though.

      --
      Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
    50. Re:Privacy aspect by Apocalypse111 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's all about being harder to use the data.
      Absolutly correct. Even without demagnetizing the disk, if you smash it into a zillion pieces then anyone who wants to read from it will be stuck using an electron microscope to read the polarities off the platter fragments - not a fast or inexpensive process.

      The best "oh, shit!" solution for immediate, total data destruction is still thermite IMHO. Not only physically destroys the drive, but the heat demagnetizes it as well. Behond that, a couple shotgun slugs will also, in general, render a drive unreadable by *most* means. You can still hypothetically recover data from such a drive, but the expense and effort involved is more than most are willing to put forth.

      --
      There is no mod option "-1: Disagree" for a reason. "Overrated" is not an acceptable substitute. Post something instead.
    51. Re:Privacy aspect by andphi · · Score: 1

      That would work, I suppose. But once you apply the thermite, what do you use to wipe the contents of the drive off the wall?

    52. Re:Privacy aspect by gfilion · · Score: 1

      Anybody know of any usefull tools to completely wipe the contents of a drive?

      I use Boot and Nuke. It does the job pretty well and it's open source.

    53. Re:Privacy aspect by iamdrscience · · Score: 1
      and breaking shit does not demagnetize it.
      You're right, but a physical shock can change magnetic polarities. I don't know how effective this would be in regards to a hard drive, but I'd imagine anything you're hitting it with that's hard enough to break it into thousands of pieces is likely enough to render at least some of the data in the shards useless.
    54. Re:Privacy aspect by Feanturi · · Score: 1

      A "full format" is actually just a quick format with chkdsk running on it at the same time. It does not 'erase' the drive any more thoroughly than a quick one.

    55. Re:Privacy aspect by _anomaly_ · · Score: 2, Funny
      C:\>cat /dev/zero > /dev/C:
      The system cannot find the path specified.
      *sigh*
      --
      "I have no special gift, I am only passionately curious." - Albert Einstein
    56. Re:Privacy aspect by choongiri · · Score: 1

      "Requires no power supply - Equipped with Hand Crank" ?

    57. Re:Privacy aspect by jimstapleton · · Score: 1

      Please sir, place your hands above your head, and STEP AWAY FROM THE WINDOWS.

      --
      34486853790
      Connection too slow for X forwarding? Try "ssh -CX user@host"
    58. Re:Privacy aspect by obdulio · · Score: 1

      sink it in a bath of sulfuiric acid.

      --
      PENAROL: Seras eterno como el tiempo y floreceras en cada primavera.
    59. Re:Privacy aspect by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      It would be spectacularly ineffective. The magnetic fields used to read/write data are VERY strong - in a very tiny little area. Regardless, if it were so easy to lose the data, the magnets in the hard drive and in the rest of your system would be a danger to your data, which they are not.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    60. Re:Privacy aspect by mlush · · Score: 1

      Its not that hard to build a charcoal fired furnace that is more than capable of melting down a HDD

    61. Re:Privacy aspect by eam · · Score: 1

      When the FBI comes knocking on the door, you can barricade yourself in and hold them off for a while, but they'll turn the power off & get in eventually.

      At times like these, it's nice to know you can still destroy the evidence even after they cut power to the building.

    62. Re:Privacy aspect by Darby · · Score: 1

      BUT I also know from friends who are former hackers turned LEO that they actually don't have to look beyond someone doing a simple format most of the time since people are typically stupid in that regard.

      They were shot into space?!?

      WTF dude. That's a pretty harsh penalty for hacking.

    63. Re:Privacy aspect by Amouth · · Score: 0

      the disk was over writen with a disk imager.. the idea that it was updating the file system from fat16 to 32 is pointless.

      data that is "genuinely-overwritten" can be recovered and it can be with software.. it all depeneds on what access to the raw data from the drive you have.. for that you would need to talk to ontrack as they can tell you how it works..

      but for data.. if you over write a 1 with a 0 it will have a diffrent level of charge as if you over wrote a 0 with a 1 with a 1 or any other combo..

      I am no expert but i do know that it can be done.. i have done it and i have had it done by ontrack.. (by the way they are really damn expensive.. )

      --
      '...if only "Jumping to a Conclusion" was an event in the Olympics.'
    64. Re:Privacy aspect by HomelessInLaJolla · · Score: 3, Interesting

      > As for how, the short version is that if you write a one and then a zero, you end up with .1; the old value leaks in a bit

      I've always wondered, if this were really true, why we don't see random errors cropping up constantly especially on heavily used portions of hard drives.

      > See, when you overwrite, the write head doesn't exactly line up with the old stuff--so you'll have little bits of the old data sticking out from above or below the track

      Is there a similiar random misalignment with the read head and, if so, why again do we not observe daily errors on heavily used portions of hard drives? If not then how does the read head compensate for the misalignment of the write head?

      The questions are simple but the premise is sound. While I agree, in theory, with the technical papers that contend that this sort of data recovery can be done I don't see how, in practice, it can work for data recovery but not be a problem in everyday use. The magnetic field on the drive is what it is--it has no way of knowing if it is being read for recovery purposes or for standard reading.

      Maybe there's a quantum mechanical "FBI/NSA/Investigator" bit which gets set at the beginning of the drive which instructs the rest of the magnetic fields to cooperate with investigative purposes in a recovery lab which is left unset inside of a standard computer. Personally I think that most of the technical papers discussing the theory behind such low level hard drive forensics rely on anecdotal empirical evidence from years past (mostly recovered from drives where people didn't bother to properly wipe the data at all--such as using quick formats) and add just enough extremely technical theory to make it sound plausible and keep the populance in starry-eyed awe (under the sway of FUD) of the near magical capabilities of the high priests in the Cathedral.

      --
      the NPG electrode was replaced with carbon blac
    65. Re:Privacy aspect by HomelessInLaJolla · · Score: 1

      Well, you may want to use a all ones (value 256) fill rather than a zero or one fill. It's possible that a zero fill is transparent and doesn't actually flip bits. I don't know enough about the low level function of drives. With respect to a value 256 fill, though, I completely agree with you--a single pass should be enough to render any discernable residual magnetic field data, especially on today's drives, into complete gibberish.

      --
      the NPG electrode was replaced with carbon blac
    66. Re:Privacy aspect by steveo777 · · Score: 1

      Thanks for the tip. I think this looks like the easiest way to deal with a disk that I want to continue working when I'm done. (Though thanks to all for the power and non-power tool suggestions)

      --
      This sig isn't original enough, it's time to come up with something witty...
    67. Re:Privacy aspect by fm6 · · Score: 1

      In theory, SDelete, or any other deletion utility that meets DOD standards These work by overwriting data with crap that's suppose to make the data very hard to recover. Maybe not impossible — but certainly requiring more resources than your average identity thief or muckracking journalist has.

    68. Re:Privacy aspect by Intron · · Score: 1

      "I wonder how did they manage to recover data from the bananadisk"

      Swap the electronics card with a good disk. The drive platters and heads are sealed and unlikely to have been affected. The only thing you lose is the calibration and bad block maps, which can be recreated.

      --
      Intron: the portion of DNA which expresses nothing useful.
    69. Re:Privacy aspect by su-geek · · Score: 1

      Here is how a friend and I took care of a box of HD's that needed to be completely unreadable. It has some cheesy dialog, but basically Oxy-Acetylene torches work great...

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOIf0JmZfrQ

      Peace,
      Adam

    70. Re:Privacy aspect by Plutonite · · Score: 1

      You don't go out very much, do you?

      Joking, joking...

    71. Re:Privacy aspect by jaraxle · · Score: 1

      When the agency I work for needs hard drives destroyed, I physically take them to a steel plant 45minutes away. Once there, I meet with the manager of the "melt shop", we put the boxes of drives onto a pallet which is then hoisted up to the furnace area. We go into the control room (aka shelter) while the drives are smelted in a 3000+ degree Celcius furnace. Not once do the drives leave my sight (even when in the control room, there's windows and CCTV).

      Not much chance of data recovery after that...

      ~jaraxle

    72. Re:Privacy aspect by Sangui5 · · Score: 1
      I've always wondered, if this were really true, why we don't see random errors cropping up constantly especially on heavily used portions of hard drives.
      The very error correction that makes it easier to recover. The writing will flip the magnetization most of the way there, so you can tell if it was a 1 or a 0, it just won't be exactly 1 or 0. Think of writing as "old value * .1 + new value * .9"; you never really destroy the old values, but you make them weaker and weaker every time. Plus, for the cases where the read head is mistaken, the ECC saves your butt.
      Is there a similiar random misalignment with the read head and, if so, why again do we not observe daily errors on heavily used portions of hard drives? If not then how does the read head compensate for the misalignment of the write head?
      The write head is narrow (to avoid accidentally stomping on adjacent tracks). The read head is wide, to catch what was written even if they heads aren't lined up exactly where they were last time. You won't be off by a whole track, just a fraction of a track. So you don't completely overwrite the width of what was written last time, but you'll overwrite the vast bulk of what the read head will be picking up next time.
      The magnetic field on the drive is what it is--it has no way of knowing if it is being read for recovery purposes or for standard reading.
      But the specialized reads head/drive electronics do know that it is for recovery. A normal read head tells you "1" or "0". Forensic electronics save the analog information which a normal read head discards. Then they "subtract" what the ECC was telling them was written most recently, to get a weaker version of the old data. Then you see what the ECC tells you what that should have been (although your overall noise is higher), and recurse. Eventually the old signal is so drowned out by random noise that the ECC no longer is enough, and the data is effectively lost. Although it *could* be used for everyday use, it would be much slower and you would have a much higher data error rate; it is a simple speed/reliability vs. capacity tradeoff. People get cranky when their hard drive corrupts data, and they get cranky when it is slow, so the manufacturers have made their choice.
    73. Re:Privacy aspect by HomelessInLaJolla · · Score: 1

      > The writing will flip the magnetization most of the way there, so you can tell if it was a 1 or a 0, it just won't be exactly 1 or 0. Think of writing as "old value * .1 + new value * .9"; you never really destroy the old values, but you make them weaker and weaker every time

      This sounds like the principle behind Fourier Transform sampling for scientific instruments like MS and NMR. With years of writing and overwriting (ie. conducting an FT experiment on constantly changing data), wouldn't this sort of thinking result in the entire hard drive ending up as 0.5--or some random noise--rather than a meaningful data signal?

      --
      the NPG electrode was replaced with carbon blac
    74. Re:Privacy aspect by db32 · · Score: 1

      The beauty of being a large customer really. You don't send the part back first, they send you the new part and you return the old part in the new parts packaging :). Even if they do complain you simply site policy for destruction of the drive to prevent data recovery. From what I understand most places don't generally do anything with the returned hardware except scrap it anyways. I have heard stories of employees at PC repair shops (Best Buy, CompUSA, etc) that will remove "broken" hard drives and have them replaced under warranty at no cost to the customer, keep the "broken" drive and ship back other random old drives or (I don't know that I really believe this one) bricks just to make the box feel right.

      --
      The only change I can believe in is what I find in my couch cushions.
    75. Re:Privacy aspect by Sangui5 · · Score: 1
      wouldn't this sort of thinking result in the entire hard drive ending up as 0.5--or some random noise--rather than a meaningful data signal?

      If "old value" starts out between 0 and 1 and "new value" is always either 0 or 1 (plus or minus minor noise), things will work out. If I write a 1, then you get (.9 * 1 + .1 * something_between_0_and_1) = .9 + something_small = something_between_1_and_.9, while writing a 0 will get you something inbetween 0 and .1. Even if, somehow (say, lots of unluckily correlated noise), the "old value" is corrupted to something out of range, (e.g. 1.1 or -.1), the average will pull it very quickly back into range. It isn't a linear average; the most recent result matters most, and dominates enough that you'll have something distinguishable one way or the other. If, somehow, the data was written to be .5, then you'd get (1 * .9 + .5 * .1) = .95 for writing 1, and (0 * .9 + .5 * .1) = .05 for writing 0, which is actually closer to a perfect 1 or 0 than if the previous write was the opposite.

      Although, do note that rather than using actual 1's and 0's, we have analog field polarities which we let stand for 1's and 0's... the idea is the same, though.

    76. Re:Privacy aspect by jimicus · · Score: 1

      by the way they are really damn expensive

      All data recovery companies are expensive.

      Generally, by the time you're sending a disk to them, it's because they're rather cheaper than losing the data forever.

    77. Re:Privacy aspect by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Encryption. Then you only have to wipe the key.

    78. Re:Privacy aspect by lmpeters · · Score: 1

      Nice ideas, but I've been in a few situations where that was not possible. In one case, the drive had failed but was still under warranty. If I had done ANY of the things you describe, I'm sure they would have rejected my warranty claim. I can't afford that (college student, shoestring budget, et al.)

      Personally, I run the "shred" utility on any hard disk before letting it go, with the standard 26 passes. It may take several days to complete (depending on the size of the disk), and the data might still be recoverable using specialized (and really expensive) hardware, but I have had no problems thus far. And even if one could recover the contents of the disk, it's likely part of a RAID-5 array (thus incomplete data) that is scrambled with dm-crypt (thus incomplete AND incomprehensible data). Yes, I suppose someone with the time and resources might still get something of value off the drive; I'll consider a more thorough approach (such as disintegrating the drive) if and when I have enemies that would actually be able and inclined to do so.

    79. Re:Privacy aspect by snarkth · · Score: 1

      A blowtorch doesn't require any power either.

        snarkth

    80. Re:Privacy aspect by Darlantan · · Score: 1

      Nothing, though it is reccomended that you keep nothing valuable underneath the area where the charge is to be deployed. This includes rugs, expensive hardwood floors, and neighbors.

      --
      Fill in your four or five-letter word of wisdom here _ _ _ _ _.
    81. Re:Privacy aspect by snarkth · · Score: 1

      An oxyacetylene torch works nicely as well. Hard to recover data from little round melted lumps :-)

        Not as fast as thermite or a shotgun, but easier to hide in plain sight.

        snarkth

    82. Re:Privacy aspect by Sorthum · · Score: 1

      So what do you do when you're not giving your plan away to James Bond?

    83. Re:Privacy aspect by scottv67 · · Score: 1

      may have had HIPPA protected data on them.

      Is that anything like HIPAA?
      http://www.hipaa.org/

    84. Re:Privacy aspect by dbIII · · Score: 1
      The final answer was indeed a thermite charge

      Now are there two thermites or do people here think they know what they are talking about but don't?

      The use of the word thermite I know about is a welding process with aluminium and iron powder ignited by an intense heat source like a magnesium ribbon - melting but not an explosive by any stretch of the imagination. It is a very easy way to get molten metal and I even did this in high school. Aluminium powder is used in explosives which probably confuses people.

    85. Re:Privacy aspect by HomelessInLaJolla · · Score: 1

      I do appreciate you walking through this so politely. I've seen it before but you're the first person to do it without using all sorts of profanities and insulting my heritage along the way. It does make a certain amount of sense and I'd be inclined to agree but not without thinking about it more thoroughly:

      Write a 1 over a 1? 0.1 * 1 + 0.9 * 1 = 1.0
      Write another 1 over that? 0.1 * 1 + 0.9 * 1 = 1.0
      Write a zero over that? 0.1 * 1.0 + 0.9 * 0 = 0.1
      Write another zero over that? 0.1 * 0.1 + 0.9 * 0 = 0.01

      Okay. That might seem to work, maybe. It doesn't seem like it would yield any useful residual data after a single overwrite, though. Many of the claims of data salvage which inspired things like gazillion pass data shredding are rooted in a propagated belief that the residual field will be meaningful more than one overwrite down the line.

      My other question is about the analog field polarities. How are those actually stored on the platter? If the platter is some metal alloy matrix then I would imagine that the write head changes an oxidation state of a patch of the alloy (which brings us close to the concept of data density--how many atoms are in each patch that make up an individual bit or byte). With data densities having become so enormous these days it's hard to imagine that our 10%/90% variances have a window large enough to be meaningful, again, after one or two rewrites.

      What I might envision happening is that someone could create a topographic magnetic map of each patch and then be able to say something akin to,"The atoms in the 90% southeast quadrant are all of the 0 charge, but right next to that is a thin line of atoms with a +1 charge, and right next to that is a thin line of atoms with a +2 charge, and ..." and on. Maybe, theoretically, but again this would be increasingly difficult with the increasing data densities on modern platters. It would certainly be enormously tedious to attempt to reconstruct even a 1k text file using this technique. It's not something that common citizen should be worried about unless they plan on really ticking off a legal opponent who has extraordinarily deep pockets or really wants to make an example of them.

      I guess I'm going to have to stick with my original thought: That yes, technically, in theory, it's probably possible to do. In practice, though, the anecdotal evidence which fuels the popular concept that it is possible to do most likely comes from people who plain didn't use a proper overwrite (eg. quick format) and the people who recovered the data wanted to make the recovery techniques sound sexy for PR and the quarterly report.

      --
      the NPG electrode was replaced with carbon blac
    86. Re:Privacy aspect by Dun+Malg · · Score: 1
      Very good call. Anybody know of any usefull tools to completely wipe the contents of a drive?
      When I was in the army, we had to decommission hard drives full of classified information. We were required to crack open the cases, pull the platters, run 'em over a big ass magnet, grind the surface off both sides with a grinder, and crack them with a hammer just for good measure. The pieces then lived in cardboard box inside the secure machine area forever, just in case there was anything on them the dastardly Russkies might still be able to read.
      --
      If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
    87. Re:Privacy aspect by Chutzpah · · Score: 1

      I don't think anybody was thinking of thermite as an explosive. They are referring to having a repository of thermite powder above the drive, and igniting it with magnesium to destroy the drive, molten metal is probably one of the best ways to destroy a drive. Though stopping that metal from destroying anything and everything beneath the drive is rather difficult.

    88. Re:Privacy aspect by BronsCon · · Score: 0
      Anybody know of any usefull tools to completely wipe the contents of a drive?

      Thermite.
      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    89. Re:Privacy aspect by xsonofagunx · · Score: 1

      just wondering - what type of industry [or in the gvmt] do you work in? If you're at liberty to say

    90. Re:Privacy aspect by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Disabling the encryption is a termination offense.

      You make them build SCSI chains? Man, that's evil.

    91. Re:Privacy aspect by Cruise_WD · · Score: 1

      Yeah, my bad - I didn't mean to imply it was an explosive, though looking back I can see why it would give that impression.
      I only meant, as the grandchild states, there was an amount of the chemical mixture known as thermite poised above said electronic storage device, and ready, should that dark day dawn, to devour data with its elemental fury. But "thermite charge" is quicker to type... :P

      --
      [ cruise / casual-tempest.net / xenogamous.com / transference.org / quantam sufficit ]
    92. Re:Privacy aspect by jaraxle · · Score: 1

      Federal (non-US) police agency.

    93. Re:Privacy aspect by Kesshi · · Score: 1
      Anybody know of any usefull tools to completely wipe the contents of a drive?

      A Magnetic Bulk Eraser is a device commonly used by those in commercial radio to "format" audio tapes. My knowledge is somewhat limited, but I believe it works by generating a strong electro-magnetic pulse that alternates back and forth rapidly. Keep your credit cards clear of these machines!

      It works on video tapes as well. One video tape I remember had been recored over many times, yet still had a fuzzy image of the original recoring. We applied the video tape to the bulk eraser, and reinserted it into the VCR only to observe the lack of anything noteable.

      I bet this would be an effective tool for wiping every last piece of data clean from a hard drive too, though I have never tried.
      --
      Press +++ for Sysop access
    94. Re:Privacy aspect by idontgno · · Score: 1

      ...it is reccomended that you keep nothing valuable underneath the area where the charge is to be deployed

      Never mind "underneath". Can you imagine a blob of white-hot molten elemental iron splashing onto a 10,000 RPM disk platter? Once the charge blows through the drive case, you're gonna see the most painful case of "s*** hitting the fan" EVAR.

      --
      Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
    95. Re:Privacy aspect by gweihir · · Score: 1

      Is that why it takes at least 10 minutes to format a hd while installing win2000? or is your idea of a long time different than mine...

      A real format (low-level) for a modern disk would take several hours.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
  3. Unbelievable but True Tales of Data Disaster... by vivekg · · Score: 4, Informative

    Original ontrack article - Top 10 List of Data Loss Disasters of 2006

    --
    The important thing is not to stop questioning --Albert Einstein.
  4. advert alert by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    waste of time

  5. The real list by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    The article is a summary of an advert. The original can be found here: http://ontrack.co.uk/special/data-disasters-2006.a spx?hp=Top10_2006

    1. Re:The real list by dbIII · · Score: 1

      The list is only things this company worked on. Seriously stupid disasters like Australian government departments storing hundreds of backup tapes in unmarked rubbish bins and a well intentioned person putting them in landfill are an order of magnitude beyond this.

  6. favorite data loss tale by krell · · Score: 4, Funny

    Someone I know had an important data disc that he used with no problems. Everything was going fine until he decided to get a little more educated about computer commands. He read a statement somewhere that said you need to "format discs before you use them." After reading this, he made sure to format the data disc before the next time he tried to access it.

    --
    Where were you when the voynix came?
    1. Re:favorite data loss tale by Evilest+Doer · · Score: 0, Flamebait
      Someone I know had an important data disc that he used with no problems. Everything was going fine until he decided to get a little more educated about computer commands. He read a statement somewhere that said you need to "format discs before you use them." After reading this, he made sure to format the data disc before the next time he tried to access it.
      So, he's like krell. Learn a tiny bit about something, and thing your a fucking expert.
      --
      I feel like death on a soda cracker.
    2. Re:favorite data loss tale by krell · · Score: 1

      "... and thing your a fucking expert"

      I thing not!!!!

      --
      Where were you when the voynix came?
    3. Re:favorite data loss tale by Evilest+Doer · · Score: 1
      "... and thing your a fucking expert"


      I thing not!!!!

      Touché! It is admittedly difficult to carefully type when you are as drunk and pissed off as I am. But, do you not have anything better to do than respond to every fucking thing on slashdot? And, are you simply the latest virtual incarnation of this loser.
      --
      I feel like death on a soda cracker.
    4. Re:favorite data loss tale by WilliamSChips · · Score: 1

      no, TripMaster Monkey had a cooler sig.

      --
      Please, for the good of Humanity, vote Obama.
  7. The perfect secret weapon! by Bananatree3 · · Score: 4, Funny
    One customer left a banana on top of his hard drive, which then rotted and seeped through into the device. The circuits were ruined and the drive failed to work.

    AHhahahahahaha! the perfect corporate sabotage! Disguised as a janitor in a data center, place the banana inside one of the server cases over the holiday weekend, and voila! Muahahahahahahaha......

    1. Re:The perfect secret weapon! by OakDragon · · Score: 2, Funny

      In a another, similar article, I read of people noticing a mysterious foul odor that seemed to be coming from one of the office computers. A tech investigated, and found that one of the plastic panels for an (empty) drive bay was a little loose. He opened it and found what looked to be a month-old taco. Seems somebody confused the computer for a fridge.

    2. Re:The perfect secret weapon! by G-Licious! · · Score: 1

      A Banana Bomb would be more effective.

    3. Re:The perfect secret weapon! by GammaKitsune · · Score: 5, Funny

      Is that a banana in your server or are you just happy to see me?

      --
      Gamertag: WyleType
    4. Re:The perfect secret weapon! by pilgrim23 · · Score: 3, Funny

      It is known that any given drive will max out on data in time. It would be good to...pear it down...
      Thus the users could enjoy the fruits of their labor... I'll stop now...

      --
      - Minutus cantorum, minutus balorum, minutus carborata descendum pantorum.
    5. Re:The perfect secret weapon! by SpiritusGladius1517 · · Score: 2, Funny

      What if they have a pointed stick?

      --
      If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy.
    6. Re:The perfect secret weapon! by LunaticTippy · · Score: 4, Funny

      Oh sure, like none of us has ever used a computer to heat up some lunch.

      --
      Man, you really need that seminar!
    7. Re:The perfect secret weapon! by Brickwall · · Score: 1

      Shaddup!

      --
      What was once true, is no longer so
    8. Re:The perfect secret weapon! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The banana is kind of a dead-man's switch. You replace the banana every few days. But if you get fired, nobody is changing the banana, and disaster ensues! hehehehe! :)

    9. Re:The perfect secret weapon! by AragornSonOfArathorn · · Score: 1

      Look man, I ain't fallin' for no banana in my server rack!

      --
      sudo eat my shorts
    10. Re:The perfect secret weapon! by Jesus_666 · · Score: 1

      Ahh, the good old days of the Thunderbird...

      --
      USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
    11. Re:The perfect secret weapon! by PitaBred · · Score: 1

      The Thunderbird? Man, those P4's were even better. I've got a pair of P4 based Xeon's in a workstation... I have to close the heat register in that room otherwise it gets too warm.

    12. Re:The perfect secret weapon! by 19thNervousBreakdown · · Score: 1

      EH-EH-EH

      --
      <xml><I><am><so><damn>Web 2.0</damn></so></am></I></xml>
    13. Re:The perfect secret weapon! by CaptainCarrot · · Score: 1

      Neither. Do you have any idea how much downloaded porn is on that thing?

      --
      And the brethren went away edified.
    14. Re:The perfect secret weapon! by CCFreak2K · · Score: 1

      Orange you glad you stopped?

      --
      "Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master."
  8. Great Advertising for OnTrack by waif69 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Although, from people I met over the years, they have a very good reputation for data recovery. At one of the PC Expos in NYC, I remember they had a booth with a computer that was in a fire. They claimed that they were able to retrieve the data.

    1. Re:Great Advertising for OnTrack by King_TJ · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yeah... OnTrack has been around for *years*, doing data-recovery. I believe "DriveSavers" is another worthy competitor offering the same services.

      I used to work for a small business that partnered up with them to get a discount on drive recovery work we sent in to them (and then we'd get to keep the difference as a commission).

      The problem with these places is that the cost of recovering data is so high, it's unfathomable for most home or small business customers. For example, one of my previous customers had their home office PC's drive fail after it was only a year old or so. They had all of their tax records stored on it, and shortly after it crashed, they discovered they were being audited by the IRS! They wanted us to attempt to recover it, but the drive refused to even spin up - so there was nothing else I was able to do. The quotes I received for recovery started at the $3000 range and up. (They go by the size of the hard drive, primarily.) When I told them the estimated cost, they cringed and saying "That's 3 times what the whole computer cost us new, last year!", decided to manually reassemble all their tax records, rather than retrieve the data from the drive.

    2. Re:Great Advertising for OnTrack by smoker2 · · Score: 1
      ... but the drive refused to even spin up - so there was nothing else I was able to do.
      Did you try putting it inside several sealed plastic bags, then sticking the whole lot in the freezer for a day ?

      Worked for me a couple of times.

    3. Re:Great Advertising for OnTrack by Himring · · Score: 2, Funny

      And then, this other time, there was this other computer, and, like, something really bad had happened to it, and, like, they said they retrieved that data too ... it was awesome....

      --
      "All great things are simple & expressed in a single word: freedom, justice, honor, duty, mercy, hope." --Churchill
    4. Re:Great Advertising for OnTrack by Anonymous+Cowled · · Score: 1

      Yup, worked for me also when one of mine died. Put it in the freezer for a day, then back into the pc. Lasted long enough to get the data I needed off it.

    5. Re:Great Advertising for OnTrack by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's all about how much your data and time are worth to you. If I had a small company (or even for personal use) and lost all tax records and was about to be audited, $3000 seems a small price to pay to not have to try to assemble it myself. It is also a very big reminder to always back up your data.

    6. Re:Great Advertising for OnTrack by xsonofagunx · · Score: 1

      Which of course made me think of something - if the secret service [fbi, cia etc.] is knocking on your door make sure that you totally trash your backups too. In this situation, I'd imagine that thermite would be almost your only option. It's not like you can keep the FBI busy for three hours while your HDD wipes itself, and the fire that you set to melt your kiddie-porn DVD collection may be a little suspicious.

      So, put a nice big thermite charge [again, not referring to an explosive] on top of your kiddie porn DVD collection which is on top of your kiddie porn containing hdd and as soon as anyone knocks on your door run to your computer and light*

      * - I am not condoning looking at kiddie porn! Also not responsible if you melt your DVDs and HDD when grandma comes to visit.

    7. Re:Great Advertising for OnTrack by xsonofagunx · · Score: 1

      did it go beep-beep-beep-beep-beep? Was it a... bummer?

  9. Ok... by aliendisaster · · Score: 3, Insightful
    according to a data recovery company that has released a list of the most remarkable cases of data loss witnessed this year.
    British comedian Dom Joly, presenter of Trigger Happy TV, thought the joke was on him when he dropped his laptop, damaging a hard drive containing 5,000 photos, 6,000 songs, a book he was writing and all of his newspaper columns.
    Is dropping a laptop really that remarkable? I think they are just trying to name drop on this part.
    --
    Freedom is a state of mind. A mind is a state of being. Stay the fuck out of my mind and my being. - Corporate Avenger
    1. Re:Ok... by iainl · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No, it's just that they're trumpeting how wonderful dropping a laptop could be toward saving us from being submitted to any more of Joly's dire attempts at humour ever, ever again.

      --
      "I Know You Are But What Am I?"
    2. Re:Ok... by tillerman35 · · Score: 1

      That guy is such an arfhole. I wish they hadn't been able to recover his data. Would have served him right.

    3. Re:Ok... by thebdj · · Score: 1

      Depending on the drop, yes it is. The physical parts of a hard drive do not like being banged around and with all the parts of the laptop being so tightly packed, it doesn't take a lot to give a drive a lot of shock, especially if it is spinning. It was because of this that companies (I think IBM, now Lenovo, Thinkpads were among the first) to provide systems to protect drives by attempting to detect the impending fall and stopping the drive the drive from spinning.

      --
      "Some days you just can't get rid of a bomb."
    4. Re:Ok... by ZaMoose · · Score: 1

      Depends. Did you drop them on two elderly women in an attempt to take vengeance upon paparazzi? No? Then it's probably not all that remarkable.

      Less actionable, too.

      --
      I wish I had a kryptonite cross, because then you could keep Dracula and Superman away.
    5. Re:Ok... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Right, dropping the computer can damage the drive. But its the sort of thing that happens, its not unusual or remarkably stupid (unless done intentionally). Most of the examples were like this.

  10. TDWTF has some good stories. by The+MAZZTer · · Score: 2, Informative
    1. Re:TDWTF has some good stories. by joerdie · · Score: 1

      I think your liky is dead.

    2. Re:TDWTF has some good stories. by IDontAgreeWithYou · · Score: 1

      No his linky is yet another stupid coral cache link that maybe 30% of /. readers in the U.S. at 12:00 EST can read since we are work and firewalled. Please stop using coral cache, especially to a server like the dailywtf, which I am quite sure can handle the load. Let's see if this causes the universe to self destruct. Click here to destroy the universe.

      --
      Finding other idiots on /. that agree with your opinion doesn't make it any less stupid.
  11. That's the reason... by GillBates0 · · Score: 0

    That's the reason I always use high-quality, industrial-strength bits in all the code I write.

    --
    An Indian-American Hindu committed to non-violent thought/speech/action alarmed by the global explosion of radical Islam
  12. keyboard by joerdie · · Score: 4, Funny

    This is sort of OT but when i worked at radioshack, this guy was complaining about his keyboard on his laptop not working properly. After looking at the unit I realized that the customer had been hiding a thin layer of pot under the keys... I didn't "inform the authorities," but I did have a long conversation with the guy about where he should hide the pot.

    1. Re:keyboard by nastybastard · · Score: 1

      That sounds like the guy at my office who I thought was capable of cleaning his keyboard. He brought it to me and complained that it still wasn't working.... he had ended up pouring what appeared to be an entire bottle of Windex in it. It was obvious when I took the keyboard from him and it started dripping from every crevice. Sad but true.

    2. Re:keyboard by ajs318 · · Score: 1

      Actually, modern keyboards -- with the printed membrane switches -- will be fine if put through a dishwasher, as long as you dry them out thoroughly as soon as possible after washing.

      If you really never want to see your data again, just record it on a DVD-minus-R.

      --
      Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
    3. Re:keyboard by multipartmixed · · Score: 2, Funny

      > If you really never want to see your data again, just record it on a DVD-minus-R.

      Scene at the Zeller's department store near my house:

      Noob: What the difference between a DVD plus R and a DVD minus R?
      Droid: The plus R, you can read to it and write to it. The minus R, you can burn but you can't read from it.
      Me: So, what's the point of writing to a DVD if you can't read the data back?
      Droid: *drool*
      Noob: So what should I buy?
      Me: How old is your computer?
      Noob: Six months
      Me: Anything'll do. But shop at a computer store, it's cheaper.

      --

      Do daemons dream of electric sleep()?
    4. Re:keyboard by gt_mattex · · Score: 3, Funny

      I had something similar to this. I was doing computer repair some years ago when a customer walked in claiming his new scanner would not work. I looked it over and tested it. It seemed to work fine.

      I called the guy back over and asked him to replicate the error for me. He then proceeded to activate the scanner by placing his document up to the monitor and pressing the power button on the scanner.

      I laughed so hard I almost passed out.

      --
      "No doubt one may quote history to support any cause, as the devil quotes scripture." - Learned Hand
    5. Re:keyboard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ?? I record to DVD minus R all the time and able to read the data back. ???

      Am I doing something something correct or wrong?

      Or is it a plus minus DVD recorder 'does some magic' so a DVD minus R disk can be read?

    6. Re:keyboard by joerdie · · Score: 1

      I was thinking the same thing. mabey they have DVD-R and DVD+R confused with DVD-R and DVD-RW?

    7. Re:keyboard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's a bad attempt at a joke. DVD+RW fanbois like to slag off DVD-RW, they reckon it is unreliable.

      Of course, everyone else knows that DVD+RW is the unreliable format.

  13. Interns by Savage-Rabbit · · Score: 1

    My favorite is still the intern who accidentally typed 'rm -rf / home/user' as root. The machine wasn't very important and the data was restorable from tape but it was still pretty funny to see the look on his face when he realized what he had done.

    --
    Only to idiots, are orders laws.
    -- Henning von Tresckow
    1. Re:Interns by Robmonster · · Score: 1

      I used to love typing that into a workstation, but not pressing enter.

      One user had the habit of clearing the screensaver by hitting Enter over and over...

      --
      I have no sig yet I must scream.
    2. Re:Interns by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I had a weak day once - I tried to delete the .anything files in the home directories on a file-server-only machine. Guess what I typed in /home:

      rm -rf .* ...only afterwards, I realized, that .. is .*, too.

      Bad Luck....

    3. Re:Interns by Johnny5000 · · Score: 1

      My favorite is still the intern who accidentally typed 'rm -rf / home/user' as root. The machine wasn't very important and the data was restorable from tape but it was still pretty funny to see the look on his face when he realized what he had done.

      Similar story- once I was looking for a file so I tried to type "dir *.txt /s" or something similar from a DOS prompt, but my fingers typed "del *.txt /s" instead. Luckily I was able to stop it before it went through all of my directories, and undelete most of the files, but it taught me to be more careful in typing.

      --
      The libertarian solution to the failures of capitalism is to apply more capitalism til the failures are fixed.
    4. Re:Interns by tehcyder · · Score: 1
      My favorite is still the intern who accidentally typed 'rm -rf / home/user' as root
      I think it's more likely some evil geek told the intern that was the command for "backup" or something.
      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    5. Re:Interns by Mawbid · · Score: 1
      I've had a similar misfire a little higher up in the brain.

      rm instead of mv.

      Well, it stands for remove ;-)

      --
      Fuck the system? Nah, you might catch something.
    6. Re:Interns by curecollector · · Score: 2, Funny

      Ah, the old read mail, real fast routine. Love it...

    7. Re:Interns by pilkul · · Score: 1

      I always clear screensavers by lightly tapping the mouse for just this kind of reason!

    8. Re:Interns by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      reminds me of a friend in college who had ls aliased to ls -F - so one day he decided to delete some of the executables for a project because he was going to recomplile - since when he did ls they all ended in *, he typed 'rm -rf **' and realized how big a mistake that he had made about a split second after he had hit enter

    9. Re:Interns by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      That's nothing.

      I once did an 'rm -fr /' on my newly built-from-scratch gentoo box thinking that I was in a chrooted environment. Unfortunately the chrooted shell was in a different terminal...

      But I didn't give up! I recompiled gentoo and managed to finish one week before my IBM deathstar hard disk decided to crash. That's when I met Debian...

    10. Re:Interns by Darby · · Score: 1

      I used to love typing that into a workstation, but not pressing enter.

      One user had the habit of clearing the screensaver by hitting Enter over and over...


      The Bastardry is strong in this one.

  14. slashvertisement? by minus_273 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This thing is full of really bad puns and reads like an ad for a certian data recovery company. how the hell did this get posted on the front page?

    --
    The war with islam is a war on the beast
    The war on terror is a war for peace
    1. Re:slashvertisement? by phalse+phace · · Score: 1

      I have no idea, but I can't wait for the repost within the next couple of days.

  15. the best tale by thejrwr · · Score: 0

    I had a guy come to me with a laptop and said it would no "Turn on" so i power it up and his drive is not working, and i take the drive out, and take a good look at it, i put it back into the laptop thinking it must be the BIOS or somthing, the as soon as it powered up, i hear a sound that sounded like broken class in a blender! come to find out the poor think had been droped more then 21 times, he thought it could not harm the laptop, goes to show how dumb people are

    1. Re:the best tale by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And your lack of ability to form a coherent sentence shows how dumb you are.

  16. Eh... by penguin_nv · · Score: 1, Troll

    Just goes to show that some people really shouldn't touch technology

  17. Just an advertisment by z_gringo · · Score: 4, Informative

    That "article" is nothing more than a commercial for using their data recovery service.

    --
    -- -- Warning. Do not stare directly at the sun.
    1. Re:Just an advertisment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And what's worse, it's not even funny!

  18. STOP POSTING ADS by rbanzai · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "OnTrack claims it rescued the data in all cases. Jim Reinert, senior director of software and services for the company, said it pays to have your damaged hard drive or storage device evaluated because the chances of recovery are good."

    This "slashvertisement" crap has gone too far.

    1. Re:STOP POSTING ADS by MECC · · Score: 1

      I have to wonder - did /. get paid for this ad?

      --
      "We are all geniuses when we dream"
      - E.M. Cioran
    2. Re:STOP POSTING ADS by oliderid · · Score: 1

      By the way how do they recover the hard disk's data?

        For example I've heard a story a hard disk fallen into the sea and they managed to recover some data. How do they do?

    3. Re:STOP POSTING ADS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Here's a good place to start

      http://www.vogon.co.uk/data-recovery/

    4. Re:STOP POSTING ADS by oliderid · · Score: 1

      thank you :-)

  19. My Confession by gmajor · · Score: 1

    I have a confession to make. I lost my data due to my sheer incompetence.

    One late night, I surfed browsed through my government's website to look for some very important information. After about an hour of searching, I finally found a link to the document I needed. I had 5 other browser windows open, pointing to pages I needed. I thought the link would lead to an html page, but it was actually a pdf.

    I merrily clicked on the link. Adobe Acrobat opened up inside the web browser. And to my horror, but not to my surprise, Adobe Acrobat crashed. It stalled IE, so I would have to ctrl-alt-delete and lose my 5 other browser windows, not to mention attempt to find the form again.

    Out of frustration, I hit my laptop. Really hard. And the hard drive made a funny sound. A last breath kind of sound. Which it probably was.

    I lost everything - work item, personal items. A lot. I had not backed up recently either.

    Now I use FoxIt reader. And if a program crashes, I try to keep my cool.

    1. Re:My Confession by Tarlus · · Score: 1



      That's what you get for using IE. ;)

      I used to have major issues with that as well, having numerous browser windows open and then having one crash and take the rest down. What I love about Firefox 2 is its ability to resume your session when you start it again, so all of your open tabs and windows will resume where they were before it crashed.

      Of course, I haven't had Firefox 2 crash yet...

      </IE Slam; Firefox 2 Advert>

      --
      /* No Comment */
  20. Commonly by Himring · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The most common issue I've dealt with is jr techs deleting user profiles off xp boxes to "fix" something without first determining if there is any sensitive data in "my documents." Yes, generally -- although we tell users to put important stuff on network drives -- there are docs there that carry weight....

    I had a HD going bad once, with stuff on it I HAD to get off. I hooked it up and as it clicked and thumped and stopped spinning, I'd whack it with a flash light. This would make it spin and the copy would continue. After 30 minutes of beating it into submission, all data copied off successfully....

    I will tell this: one time we had a fire at a site. After all the damage cleaned up, machines replaced, etc., we were working with the maintenance guy who had been involved in the smoke cleanup, etc. The server was pretty messy. We were going to replace it, but he said, "no problem. Got it working." We asked what he did.

    He took the thing apart, apparently, and ran all pieces through the industrial dish washer -- all the but the harddrive. He let dry thoroughly, put all back together, and it worked. We were dumb-founded....

    --
    "All great things are simple & expressed in a single word: freedom, justice, honor, duty, mercy, hope." --Churchill
    1. Re:Commonly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Water does not hurt electronics if they are not running usually.

      'I spilt a drink on my keyboard'
      'put it in the shower rinse'
      'dry completely'
      'use'

      It is 'other things' in water that can cause problems though. As they get stuck in places where a short would occure. Also water can cause a short too, thats why you let it dry. Long term water will rust some things in the computer. But older computers are made of silver, gold, aluminum things that do not rust so easy (or at all). Now copper on the other hand likes rust QUICK. Rust bad. But you usually have a bit of time to get your data.

    2. Re:Commonly by Lumpy · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I got a free laptop and a free $900.00 Universal MX-3000 remote that way. Both were damaged by smoke in a fire. they were being tossed at a clients home I snagged them and soaked both in distilled water for days, finally ended spraying down the boards, drying and then reassembling.

      Both work great, in fact the laptop has been running fine for 6 months now with my daughter using it. (It's a super slow Dell latitude C640 good for a kid only wanting to run simple games like UT2004 or DOOM3)

      Washing electronics is not surprising. everything you own has been washed once in it's life, typically during the assembly.. they wash off all the flux from the soldering process, typically with water if the place uses modern water soluble flux.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    3. Re:Commonly by Himring · · Score: 1

      Right.

      Our team, made of very seasoned and intelligent people, understand this.

      Still, out of all the experience, degrees and credentials, none of us would have ever recommended putting circuit boards, et al., through an industrial dishwasher.

      Yes, it was well dry by the time he powered it up....

      --
      "All great things are simple & expressed in a single word: freedom, justice, honor, duty, mercy, hope." --Churchill
    4. Re:Commonly by Himring · · Score: 1

      ...

      Doom3 is a simple child's game?

      --
      "All great things are simple & expressed in a single word: freedom, justice, honor, duty, mercy, hope." --Churchill
    5. Re:Commonly by Cu · · Score: 1

      Why not redirect My Documents to a network folder? Doing so has saved me a lot of headaches.

      --
      I'm Abram Bender. You're not.
    6. Re:Commonly by Himring · · Score: 1

      We actually do that at some sites. Let's just say we have a very large, and disparate, network. I have a good buddy that runs a 100 box network and he says stuff to me like this all the time. It's easy to turn a speed boat. Not so easy to turn a passenger liner. We have far, far more than 100 computers at many, many sites with all sorts of histories of OSes, clients, blah blah....

      --
      "All great things are simple & expressed in a single word: freedom, justice, honor, duty, mercy, hope." --Churchill
    7. Re:Commonly by Anonymous+Cowled · · Score: 1
      The most common issue I've dealt with is jr techs deleting user profiles off xp boxes to "fix" something without first determining if there is any sensitive data in "my documents." Yes, generally -- although we tell users to put important stuff on network drives -- there are docs there that carry weight....

      Get them to rename the folders instead.

      Earlier in the year, I heard of a user who had aquired local admin rights on her pc (I can only assume one of the dts guys had forgotten to remove it after some work) and in an attempt to "tidy up a bit" had partially deleted the winnt folder... I would love to be able to roll these these out to my users

      He took the thing apart, apparently, and ran all pieces through the industrial dish washer -- all the but the harddrive. He let dry thoroughly, put all back together, and it worked. We were dumb-founded....

      ROFLMAO!!
    8. Re:Commonly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then explain to the sales person over and over why they can't get to their documents on the plane.

  21. Advert for a company NOT to go to.. by mdobossy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I like my data to be private, and if I was ever in need of a data recovery company, I would expect them to be professional, and respect my privacy/data.

    Here you have a company airing their clients misfortunes all over the net.. and in one case even specifying the name of the individual. Doesn't exactly give me a warm and fuzzy feeling about how well they respect a client's privacy.

    1. Re:Advert for a company NOT to go to.. by Volante3192 · · Score: 1

      And you know for a fact that OnTrack didn't get permission from those customers?

    2. Re:Advert for a company NOT to go to.. by mdobossy · · Score: 1

      No I don't, nor did I claim to.. in fact, for the guy who's name they specifically mention, I suspect they probably did.

      That being said, any company that would feel the need to air their clients unfortunate situations for the sake of marketing (permission or not) isn't a company I personally would want to give my business to.

    3. Re:Advert for a company NOT to go to.. by Poltron+Inconnu · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'd highly suspect that they got permission to do so in all cases. The named individual probably even got the service in exchange for the publicity as it mentions they contacted him after reading about his problem in the paper. If there was not a prior agreement then I'm sure there will soon be an article on Slashdot about the lawsuit. Your comment isn't insightful, it's silly. Many companies give away their services or products in exchange for the right to publicize. And considering that your average Joe on the street assumes that a dead drive means all information is lost forever, as the aforementioned comedian did, then I can see why this company would want to shout from the rooftops that their service even exists. People don't look for what they don't know exists. If the company followed your advice their client list would be limited to only technologically adept people and that would rule out the vast majority of people using computers.

    4. Re:Advert for a company NOT to go to.. by stereoroid · · Score: 2, Informative

      If you're talking about Dom Joly, did you even read TFA? He wrote about his mishap in a column in a UK national newspaper (The Independent on Sunday), after which OnTrack contacted him. So, what are you referring to?

      --
      (this is not a .sig)
    5. Re:Advert for a company NOT to go to.. by The+Cisco+Kid · · Score: 1

      With the exception of the one guy's whose name they specifically mentioned, (and I consider it likely tht they did get his permission), no other clients were identified. They did give details of the mishaps, but you dont know *who* had these mishaps. Heck, they could have made them up. The point is that they give examples of just how badly you can fuck up a drive, and they are still able to recover the info from it. As long as they arent identifying the clients, or revealing the data the recovered, I think this is a reasonable means of marketing.

    6. Re:Advert for a company NOT to go to.. by pudro · · Score: 1
      and in one case even specifying the name of the individual
      That individual aired his own misfortune in the newspaper first. And, like has already been said, he likely got the service for free in exchange for them advertising it.

      As for the rest, let me tweak the words of Forrest Gump: "Stupid gets what stupid deserves."
      --
      Freedom is assumed. Then they try to take it away. The degree to which you resist is the degree to which you are free.
    7. Re:Advert for a company NOT to go to.. by Matt+Perry · · Score: 1
      any company that would feel the need to air their clients unfortunate situations for the sake of marketing (permission or not) isn't a company I personally would want to give my business to

      All of their clients are in unfortunate situations. Their business is based on solving the problems that these situations create. Someone in an unfortunate situation like they state wouldn't be in need of their services. They're showing that no matter how bad the problem was they can still recover the data.
      --
      Slashdot: Failed Car Analogies. Amateur Lawyering. Anecdote Battles.
  22. How to tag this? by walruz · · Score: 1

    I've been wondering how to tag this. It's not a Dupe, it's not a Slashvertisement.. Dupetisement? Duh'tisement? hey.. i like this last one!

    --
    ATH++
  23. N00bkes by SuperStretchy · · Score: 5, Funny

    Thats why I use the Microwaved-Hard-Drive method. It works! Mostly because you can't find the HD amidst the smoldering ruins of the house.

  24. Nothing but a press release. Move along. by amper · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Can we at least *try* to avoid posting false news items that are really nothing more than thinly-disguised press releases?

  25. Adobe Acrobat does not play nice by krell · · Score: 1

    It always slows things down, and often has idiotic upgrade messages to wade through. Thankfully, Google often offers HTML translations of PDF files it links to. I only wish they offered this for ALL pdf files, instead of just some. PDF for web content is a nuisance to be bypassed.

    --
    Where were you when the voynix came?
    1. Re:Adobe Acrobat does not play nice by pla · · Score: 1

      It always slows things down

      Run version 5 rather than the latest-n-greatest. It doesn't suck nearly so much CPU and memory, and it doesn't know how to obey the "phone home and tell on me" feature introduced in v7... Though it does still tend to take out the browser on a crash.


      and often has idiotic upgrade messages to wade through

      Download a Windows version of the unix program "true" (or just compile your own under mingw: "int main(void){return(0);}").

      Now search for "AdobeUpdateManager.exe".

      Copy true.exe over AdobeUpdateManager.exe.

      Poof, no more update nagging.

  26. What is "False" about it? by krell · · Score: 3, Informative

    "Can we at least *try* to avoid posting false news items that are really nothing more than thinly-disguised press releases?"

    Can you please cite the false parts of this news item? If you can't, why call it false?

    --
    Where were you when the voynix came?
    1. Re:What is "False" about it? by idontgno · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think the fundamentally false premise is that this story is actually news.

      However, at least it's interesting. Everyone loves someone else's disaster story.

      --
      Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
    2. Re:What is "False" about it? by imidan · · Score: 1
      Can you please cite the false parts of this news item? If you can't, why call it false?

      It's a common error to mistake false as in truth or false as in teeth. In this case, the poster meant false as in teeth.
  27. Linux could use some improvement here. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The other day I did: "rm *" without doing "cd otherdirectory" first. Aargh. After some googling, I discovered that it is generally impossible, or at least very difficult, to recover deleted data from a journaling file system in a multi-user environment. I had to reconstruct a week's worth of work because I only back up weekly.

    Genlee posting on LinuxForums suggests: "I strongly recommend using a journaling filesystem beceause the advantages far outweigh the disadvantages. If you have to, create a few scripts to mimick a trash can. Create a dir like /trash(chmod it 1666) and create a script to replace rm. Have it mv the file to trash so it can be recovered later if you need it. Then just create a cron which empties the trash or another script to do it. Or set an alias to rm to "rm -i" so it ask before you delete the file." It sounds like not a bad idea. On the other hand, the lack of an easy-to-use undelete tool for ext3 and Reiser seems like a bit of an oversight.

  28. which one doesn't belong? by Falladir · · Score: 1
    British comedian Dom Joly, presenter of Trigger Happy TV, thought the joke was on him when he dropped his laptop, damaging a hard drive containing 5,000 photos, 6,000 songs, a book he was writing and all of his newspaper columns.
    Is this supposed to be funny for some other reason than that he is a comedian and they managed to incorporate the word "joke"? The others maybe have some "ha, ha! I would never do THAT" appeal, but this one is out of place.
    1. Re:which one doesn't belong? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But don't you see? The joke's on him! And he's a comedian! Ha! Ha!

  29. ....and the problem is? by krell · · Score: 1

    The story summary said at the outset that it is the experiences of a data recovery company regarding data problems on damaged hardware. So what's the problem? It's not like that such a company is not a great source if you are looking to find out actual data loss/recovery anecdotes. Perhaps if you don't like such information, you should configure slashdot so you don't see "hardware" stories.

    --
    Where were you when the voynix came?
    1. Re:....and the problem is? by waxapple · · Score: 1

      I thought it was pretty poorly written too, if I'm being honest. It's got the feel of one of those 'America's most wanted' trash TV shows. "This guy got more than he bargained for when he borrowed his neighbour's car" It comes across as that sort of level of drivvel...

    2. Re:....and the problem is? by krell · · Score: 1

      I actually did not care so much about the quality of the article. It's been worth it for the even better stories posted as replies. Like the one about the dead rat PC.

      --
      Where were you when the voynix came?
  30. Wireless by Daemonstar · · Score: 1

    Not related to data recovery (I guess it is information loss, though). We had a wireless antenna set up that connected our office to the main wireless tower array that provided our wireless access for the town. People start calling saying they "can't get anywhere" (don't you just hate that description?). Anyway, come to find out that either the AP on our building or the bridge on the tower isn't working right.

    I go and check the bridge on the tower, and it's fine. I notice the local AP shows no WLAN connection, so I go outside. Now, the AP is on the building behind our building (it's taller); we had rented space to put it there. The owners of the building are an older couple (it's an antique store). I walk into the alley and there's the cable that connects the indoor unit to the tranceiver dangling from the roof, and the guy's up there installing an old TV antenna. Doofus there didn't know "what [this] strange cable was", so he cut it (although he didn't admit it; funny how the cable "cut" itself and was fine until he was up there). So, $80 later it's fixed. We managed to splice the cable back together long enough for the new cable to come in.


    We also had a person bring in a PC that wouldn't work. The technician opened the case, and there was a big dead rat in the case. Not a mouse, a rat, nest and all.

    I swear, people should have to take a class and get certified to be allowed anywhere near technology. :P

    --
    I don't reply to Anonymous posts; if you have something to say to me, identify yourself or I won't reply.
    1. Re:Wireless by krell · · Score: 1

      "We also had a person bring in a PC that wouldn't work. The technician opened the case, and there was a big dead rat in the case. Not a mouse, a rat, nest and all."

      I wonder if it was some prank further up the line. How many PCs have a rat-sized hole in them for this to happen? And what about the stench? Did someone have an "Oh, I thought Gateways were supposed to smell this way" excuse?

      --
      Where were you when the voynix came?
    2. Re:Wireless by Daemonstar · · Score: 1

      It's been several years, so I dunno how it got in there; it was dead, so questioning the rat wasn't possible. I do remember us talking about the funky odor that we couldn't place.

      --
      I don't reply to Anonymous posts; if you have something to say to me, identify yourself or I won't reply.
    3. Re:Wireless by Si · · Score: 1
      How many PCs have a rat-sized hole in them for this to happen?
      Probably smaller than you think.
      --


      Why is it that many people who claim to support standards have such atrocious spelling and grammar?
    4. Re:Wireless by Yartrebo · · Score: 1

      Pretty easy. A missing cover on a drive bay is plenty big enough for a rat to get in. Even a PCI slot missing its cover is big enough for some rodents to get in.

  31. Backup? by PhoenixK7 · · Score: 2, Informative

    Yet more reasons to buy a cheap external hard-disk and at LEAST back up to that :-)

    Or, you can be like me and back up to an external hard disk at home, and a filesystem on a RAID array with a hot spare, and another backup system for that array in a different location!

    Backup solutions are way cheaper than paying some person to extract data from a dead drive... even for the bare minimum external USB/FireWire drive that you backup to daily, would save probably like 90% of all accidental damage losses of data, or losses due to random drive failure. Go out and set up your backup solution NOW, not tomorrow :-)

    1. Re:Backup? by whyloginwhysubscribe · · Score: 1

      Exactly - why hasn't anyone else made this point. I suppose all of the backed up data disasters don't make good headlines... Man leaves banana on disk... but used his backup!

  32. Freeze your bad hard drives by jgercken · · Score: 3, Informative

    I concur that this is a lousy promotional post. Therefore I'd like to make sure everyone knows the trick of putting failed/failing hard drives in the freezer for a few minutes. For reasons unknown to me, it normally gets them running long enough to pull the important data off them. If you're tempted to send a failed drive to a recovery company, try this first.

    --
    Never ascribe to malice what can be adequately attributed to ignorance. -Napoleon
    1. Re:Freeze your bad hard drives by Daemonstar · · Score: 1
      For reasons unknown to me, it normally gets them running long enough to pull the important data off them
      I was told that this works if the drive has spun a bearing. Putting the drive in the freezer causes the bearing to freeze into place for a short time. You can copy the data off the drive until the drive warms up and starts giving problems, again.

      This is what I was told, anyway. :)
      --
      I don't reply to Anonymous posts; if you have something to say to me, identify yourself or I won't reply.
    2. Re:Freeze your bad hard drives by ekgringo · · Score: 0

      I agree this sometimes works, but be sure to seal the drive in a plastic bag to prevent condensation build-up (which could damage the drive further) and of course freezer burn (which will make it taste funny).

    3. Re:Freeze your bad hard drives by snarkth · · Score: 1

      And make sure to press as much air out of it as possible.

      snarkth

  33. Is it just me, or is this really lame? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    The only thing moderately interesting about this was the WD-40 story. The rest of them are pretty commonplace mistakes.

    Did it really matter that the socks were dirty? If they'd been clean, it still would have been inadequate packaging. Is a celebrity dropping a laptop more amazing than me dropping a laptop? A leaky shampoo bottle is a top 10 disaster? If the guy had formatted his drive a 1000 times, would it have made data recovery any more difficult? Food in a computer component is newsworthy? This is just an advertising exec's spin on common data loss scenarios. Hooray for crap stories and corporate pandering.

  34. Part 2.. by mdobossy · · Score: 1

    Sorry, my thought process was cut off while posting..

    The other point I wanted to make is that we dont know one way or another if these stories were told with permission. So who would I go to with my personal data on a broken hard drive?? Company 1 that is known to blab stories about how their clients lost data (and who may or may not be getting said customers permission)? Or Company 2 who keeps their mouth shut, and just gets the job done.

    Mark me down for Company 2.

    1. Re:Part 2.. by Afty0r · · Score: 1
      So who would I go to with my personal data on a broken hard drive?? Company 1 that is known to blab stories about how their clients lost data (and who may or may not be getting said customers permission)? Or Company 2 who keeps their mouth shut, and just gets the job done.
      Company 1 who has a strong reputation, and has a track record of extremely succesfuly recoveries. or...
      Company 2 who no-one has ever heard of because they don't do PR?

      hmmm.... I'd be with company 1 every time, because I don't even know company 2 exists.
  35. 10 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They recovered data from a drive that was formatted 10 times?

    1. Re:10 by ajs318 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Yes! As long as the drive's already been formatted once, all you need to do is write out an empty sector map (or FAT, or inode table, or whatever name your OS calls it) showing that every sector on the disk is "free space" and not part of a file. You don't need to change the data. The awkward bit is finding out which sector on the disk belongs to which file.

      Data that has actually been overwritten, even just once, can never, no matter what anyone tells you, be recovered by any kind of analysis of the drive. But data isn't often overwritten. When you "delete" a file, it just gets marked as free space -- what's worse, it actually gets marked as "free space, after a fashion, but only use as a last resort" so as to give you a longer window of opportunity to recover it. New stuff will only get saved over the top of old stuff if there's really nowhere else to stick it. You can make sure data gets overwritten by first filling up the drive with junk files till there's no room to save anything else, then deleting the stuff you want rid of (which just marks it as free space), then creating more junk files -- knowing that the only place they can possibly be saved now, is over the top of the stuff you just deleted. Delete all the junk files and the drive is ready for re-use.

      --
      Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
    2. Re:10 by fuzz6y · · Score: 2, Informative
      Data that has actually been overwritten, even just once, can never, no matter what anyone tells you, be recovered by any kind of analysis of the drive.

      That's just not true. It certainly isn't going to be recoverable without taking the drive apart, but there's a reason FIPS standards require multiple overwrites with 1s, 0s, and random bit patterns.


      When you "delete" a file, it just gets marked as free space -- what's worse, it actually gets marked as "free space, after a fashion, but only use as a last resort" so as to give you a longer window of opportunity to recover it.

      There are filesystems that do this, but not FAT, or NTFS, or EXT2. A file may not get overwritten because it's not the right size (a deleted 1MB file won't make room for a 2MB new file, so the OS might choose a bigger free chunk to drop it in, rather than having to fragment it), but there's no preference given to "clean" bits.



      You can make sure data gets overwritten by first filling up the drive with junk files till there's no room to save anything else, then deleting the stuff you want rid of (which just marks it as free space), then creating more junk files -- knowing that the only place they can possibly be saved now, is over the top of the stuff you just deleted. Delete all the junk files and the drive is ready for re-use.

      Neither necessary nor sufficient. US Government offices use a secure deletion program like shred(1) (or rather, a variant that they've certified) for sensitive data, and a belt sander for top secret data.

      --
      If you're going to be elitist, it would help to be elite.
    3. Re:10 by noSignal · · Score: 1
      That's just not true. It certainly isn't going to be recoverable without taking the drive apart, but there's a reason FIPS standards require multiple overwrites with 1s, 0s, and random bit patterns.

      I believe you're correct... Isn't this an effect of magnetic remanence or something along those lines?

    4. Re:10 by Anonymous+Cowled · · Score: 1
      I believe you're correct... Isn't this an effect of magnetic remanence or something along those lines?

      You are absolutely correct there - with specialist equipment, data can easily be recovered, unless measures are taken to prevent this (I believe that the standard is to overwrite the HDD with 0s, then with 1s, then a random pattern, reverse the random pattern, then a new random pattern and reverse it. The idea is that the data which is written to the disk has to have a certain distance between the tracks (the distance varies, depending on the level of tech involved) - so that the bits do not interfere with bits in the track beside it (can you imagine what would happen if an HDD manufacturer came out with an ultra high density HDD where all the data was effectively erased after a certain period of time?). When data is written to a disk, it is not written just on the track, it spreads a little due to the nature of the medium. It is entirely possible to recover this data - providing that you have the equipment to do so.

    5. Re:10 by ajs318 · · Score: 1
      It is entirely possible to recover this data - providing that you have the equipment to do so./blockquote> No it isn't. Nobody has ever provably done it.

      More to the point, nobody has ever built a memory device that used magnetic remanence phenomena. Given that (1) all computer memory (barring a few oddities based around cathode ray tubes and delay lines) used to be magnetic before the advent of solid-state RAM in the 1970s, and (2) prices of different system components have changed at different rates with respect to one another over the years, there must have been a time when it would have been economically viable to build a remanence memory. Search through computer museums and history books all you like, but you won't find one anywhere. The nearest thing you'll find are a few analogue reel-to-reel audio tape recorders from the 1950s and 1960s, which had a "trick recording" switch, which would disconnect the erase head {they used energised-field erase heads in those days} so you could mix a new recording with an existing one.

      Recovery of overwritten magnetic data is a myth. It's never happened and it never will, because it's impossible.
      --
      Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
    6. Re:10 by Anonymous+Cowled · · Score: 1

      Really?

      Or if you don't believe Wikipedia, how about one from the Dept of Computer science at Auckland University I'm sure that if you even spent 5 minutes on Google, you would find plenty of evidence to support what I've just said. So get your facts straight instead of trolling about something you blatantly know nothing about.

    7. Re:10 by ajs318 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, really. The Gutmann paper, for all its fancy words, is bollocks.

      There's a lot of theory out there, but no proof. That's because recovery of remanent data is impossible in practice. Oh, you might get a few bits; but you'd get just as good a result, if not better, by guessing. You won't find any company willing to take on the job of undoing DBAN. If they could do it, they'd be shouting it out loud ..... but they can't. And as I said, the phenomenon has not been exploited commercially -- except as a gimmick, and a poor one at that.

      --
      Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
    8. Re:10 by Anonymous+Cowled · · Score: 1

      I'm not arguing that this is commercially available (or even viable) - I am arguing that it is possible.

      > There's a lot of theory out there, but no proof. That's because recovery of remanent data is impossible in practice.

      That is complete nonsense. This has been done many times at CMU (and I would imagine at other universities, also) - and the results have been published, the first which springs to mind is Geiger & Cranor, 2005.

    9. Re:10 by ajs318 · · Score: 1

      If you mean this, it's not surprising. Closed-source tools cannot be assumed to provide any security at all. DBAN was not tested in that report, nor even a simple use of dd.

      --
      Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
  36. Photography losses by khendron · · Score: 4, Funny

    I used to work in a camera store. Although not directly related to losing computer data, the ways customers would destroy their cameras and their film were often quite amusing.

    One guy dropped his camera into a lake at the cottage. He had read somewhere that once a camera has been immersed it should not be removed from the water. So he brought us his camera in a bucket full of lake water. I think there was even sand.

    Another guy had his film (remember that stuff?) with vacation pictures break in the camera, so he couldn't rewind the roll. He did a very intelligent thing. He went into a pitch dark room, and by feel opened up the camera, took out the film and put it into a film container. Would have worked, except that didn't use one of those black Kodak film containers. Instead he used one of those clear film containers from Fuji. When he proudly brought his "saved" film in for processing, we regretfully had to inform him that despite his best efforts, the film was ruined.

    Then there was the lady who didn't understand why her night photos of Niagara Falls (taken with a Kodax Disc camera) didn't turn out, because she distinctly remembered that the flash went off. We had to explain to her that if her flash could illuminate all of the Falls from that distance, it would probably kill everybody within 10 feet of her.

    --
    Life is like a web application. Sometime you need cookies just to get by.
    1. Re:Photography losses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny
      We had to explain to her that if her flash could illuminate all of the Falls from that distance, it would probably kill everybody within 10 feet of her.

      I want one of those flashes!

    2. Re:Photography losses by Neoncow · · Score: 1

      Big Flash Gear 9000!!

      Coming to a store near you.

    3. Re:Photography losses by Carnildo · · Score: 1
      Then there was the lady who didn't understand why her night photos of Niagara Falls (taken with a Kodax Disc camera) didn't turn out, because she distinctly remembered that the flash went off. We had to explain to her that if her flash could illuminate all of the Falls from that distance, it would probably kill everybody within 10 feet of her.


      I know a professional photographer who has flash gear capable of taking a night shot of American Falls. No, you do not want to be standing near one of the strobes when it goes off, but it probably won't kill you, either.
      --
      "They redundantly repeated themselves over and over again incessantly without end ad infinitum" -- ibid.
  37. Intern with root access -- does not compute! by spidey3 · · Score: 1

    Giving root access to some intern has to be one of the most bone-headed ideas I have ever heard. root has to be earned.

    1. Re:Intern with root access -- does not compute! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Giving root access to some intern has to be one of the most bone-headed ideas I have ever heard. root has to be earned.

      Relax.... The machine was a sandbox for interns, the eventuality had been anticipated (hence the stringent backups), he was an Comp. Sci. student so you'd think he would know better by his 2nd year and interns didn't get root anywhere else before or after this incident. This kind of thing happened regularly on that box and we always got a laugh out of it. Of course the poor kid didn't know how unimportant the machine was and got a mild shock as a result. I bet you anything that to this day he still types a lot slower than normal as root and reads every command twice before hitting [Return] so in the end he profited from the experience since it took his arrogance level down a few pegs wihch is a healthy experience for anybody to make.

  38. The freezer method? by Gazzonyx · · Score: 1

    This idea of appliances and harddrives reminds me of something I once read a few weeks ago. Can anyone confirm that placing a harddrive in a freezer for several hours will allow it to run for long enough to recover data? No, seriously, supposedly the contraction of the platters will sometimes allow a drive to read for 30 minutes or so (until it expands back to normal), just long enough for a data recovery...Can anyone confirm/deny this?

    --

    If I mod you up, it doesn't necessarily mean I agree with what you've said, sorry.

    1. Re:The freezer method? by SuperStretchy · · Score: 1

      I have heard of it, but this is why we watch Mythbusters.

    2. Re:The freezer method? by binner1 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I have actually done this. My previous employer has some Building Automation software running on a machine that was not backed up what-so-ever. We were in the process of building a replacement box and getting it all setup, etc. Only days before being able to move the data across (the new system was being backed up), the drive crapped out. A morning in the freezer and we were able to get the data off.

      I wouldn't have thought to try this, but a few of the maintenance guys suggested it. I was both surprised and happy that morning!

      -Ben

    3. Re:The freezer method? by Gazzonyx · · Score: 1

      Nice!
      I can only image how you proposed that; "Uh, yeah, let's put the harddrive in the freezer...No, sir, I haven't been drinking...Well, it certainly can't make the situation any worse!"
      I'm going to try this next time I lose a drive.

      --

      If I mod you up, it doesn't necessarily mean I agree with what you've said, sorry.

    4. Re:The freezer method? by Anonymous+Cowled · · Score: 1

      Worked for me, too, but I've never had the need to do it in a professional environment.

  39. Unix Horror Stories by Megane · · Score: 1

    This was linked into the most recent thread at thedailywtf, and having just now finished reading it, it obviously deserves to be linked here as well to increase your own morning "gotta read this" time: unix horror stories

    And never forget to mount your scratch monkey...

    --
    #naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
    1. Re:Unix Horror Stories by Sigg3.net · · Score: 0

      And never forget to mount your scratch monkey...
      Or scratch the monkey you mount!

  40. duh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What's the problem with journalists these days?

    They could at least read the fake article before publishing it... it looks like a fscking ad from a data-recovery company.

    1. Re:duh by _Sprocket_ · · Score: 1
      What's the problem with journalists these days?


      They all live by the whims of a yellow submarine.
  41. Metal contracts in cold by phorm · · Score: 0

    Ever notice that railroad tracks tend to have some space between the different segments of rail? Depending on the season, it allows for the metal to expand or contract due to heat. In the winter, the metal tracks will shrink a little bit and contract. In the summer heat, the tracks will expand a bit.

    Same thing with a hard drive, if a metallic part is stuck inside, then sometime freezing the sucker will cause the bearing or whatever to schrink just enough that it becomes unjammed. Now if the bearing is screwed, your drive will run into issues once it heats up+expands again. In some cases it will give you extra lifetime your drive, but for any failed drive I'd recommend replacement as soon as the data is recovered sufficiently.

  42. Worse... by Dr.+Zowie · · Score: 1

    From the 1980s -- I watched a new sysadmin blowing away an old user directory on the college VAX (which had about 600 user accounts):

    # rm -r /usr/users/olduser/*
    # rmdir /usr/users/olduser
    /usr/users/olduser: directory not empty
    # rm -r /usr/users/olduser/.*

    Shortly thereafter, the phone started ringing...

    (think about it...)

    1. Re:Worse... by FishWithAHammer · · Score: 1

      I'll confess to my newbism. Was olduser logged in?

      --
      "You can either have software quality or you can have pointer arithmetic, but you cannot have both at the same time."
    2. Re:Worse... by Dr.+Zowie · · Score: 2, Informative

      No, the problem is the ".*" -- it matches "..", which is the containing directory, so it blows away every user's files just like "rm -r *" would in /usr/users.

    3. Re:Worse... by FishWithAHammer · · Score: 1

      Ow. Ow damn. Ow damn hell.

      That stings.

      --
      "You can either have software quality or you can have pointer arithmetic, but you cannot have both at the same time."
  43. Dropped in a lake by British · · Score: 1

    I heard about this one guy who threw his hard drive in a lake from his high-rise apartment. The hard drive sat in the lake there for a while. The guy was later incarcerated, and then broke out a while later. The FBI then fished his hard drive out and were able to recover some data from it. :)

    1. Re:Dropped in a lake by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Prison Break anyone? ;)

    2. Re:Dropped in a lake by /dev/trash · · Score: 1

      Perhaps they could help State College and their search for Ray Gricar?

    3. Re:Dropped in a lake by dbIII · · Score: 1
      The FBI then fished his hard drive out and were able to recover some data from it. :)

      You can't rust iron oxide - and if a pocket watch can be repaired after more than 200 years in the sea there's still hope for some parts of the drive.

    4. Re:Dropped in a lake by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is going to have to be some throw - unless, of course, his apartment has a shear drop into the lake......

  44. That story was an on-track plant... by Mysticalfruit · · Score: 1

    While I found the stories funny, that article was an obvious on-track plant...

    --
    Yes Francis, the world has gone crazy.
  45. "priceless" data until they hear what the price is by dmccarty · · Score: 2, Informative

    Having worked in IT for a while, I've found that everyone's data is "invaluable" until they find out what the cost of recovery is.

    I remember one person's drive that failed badly. Naturally, he hadn't saved his files to the server. All his data was "priceless," of course, until we got a quote from the recovery service that was about $1,000. On second thought, he said, maybe we could just keep the old hard drive around in case we need something off of it, and then we could send it in.

    As it turned out, there was never anything important enough to warrant sending it in.

    --
    Have fun: Join D.N.A. (National Dyslexics Association)
  46. Fixing "Dead" HDs by G4from128k · · Score: 3, Informative

    A friend gave me an old iMac G4 because the HD (Quantum Fireball 13 GB) was fried. The HD's motor driver chip had a nice burn mark where the chip had spewed it's magic smoke. I yanked the circuit board of a similar HD (Quantum Fireball 10 GB) -- the circuit boards "look" identical -- and the Frankenstein HD worked. My friend got her data back and I got to keep the iMac.

    The point is that electronics problems with HDs (but not mechanical problems) can be fixed by swapping circuit boards.

    --
    Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
    1. Re:Fixing "Dead" HDs by mcrbids · · Score: 1


      The point is that electronics problems with HDs (but not mechanical problems) can be fixed by swapping circuit boards.


      I've done data recovery a number of times like this.

      It used to be that you could RMA a hard drive and have the replacement drive shipped immediately if you guaranteed the transfer with your credit card. You are probably still able to. So, if a warranted drive failed, I'd order the swap drive with my credit card, and when it came, swap out the controller board on the bottom of the drive. Get the data backed up to an external or 2nd HDD, then swap the controller boards back and send in the dead drive.

      Worked a champ each of the 3 or 4 times I did it.

      --
      I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
  47. Roaches by rubberbando · · Score: 1

    I knew a guy who had roaches so bad that he lost a machine to them.

    His machine suddenly stopped working and when he opened it up to take a look, he discovered full of some rather fried roaches.

    I guess that would be a lesson to those who eat a little too much in front of their computer...

    --
    DEAD DEAD DEAD DELETE ME
    1. Re:Roaches by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      when you don't know the meaning of an english word, don't look at google image.

      Actually the google image page for "roaches" made me sick

  48. DoD spec.? Seven times... stop repeating the myth! by Ayanami+Rei · · Score: 3, Informative

    The NSA (and by extension the DoD) does not allow, under any circumstances, the use of wiping software to declassify hard disks. No matter how many passes. They might have at one point but nowadays there are no guarantees with the way storage technology changes so quickly so that they decided it would no longer be a good policy.

    Disks can be wiped using a single 0-pass to be re-used for a different project at the same or higher classification level (but different need-to-know).

    But disks can never go lower. Than can only be destroyed by melting or shredding. You remove the platters from the drive, send them to Ft. Meade, and they run it through the shedder, and send you a receipt of destruction.

    This also applies to flash media (compact flash, USB memory sticks). Same rules.

    --
    THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
  49. Or just use dd... by Ayanami+Rei · · Score: 1

    ...with conv=noerror.
    dd is probably faster than cat provided you use bs=4k or thereabouts.

    Also, use /dev/urandom, not /dev/random. The latter takes forever.
    And you want to follow up with a final /dev/zero so that it's not obvious the disk was securely erased, and that you read 0s (and not random garbage) when a filesystem driver has an error and reads from unallocated space.

    --
    THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
  50. Remote Kaboom ? by cyberchondriac · · Score: 2, Funny
    How do they do the drilling on the drives of laptops that get stolen?
    They don't. Instead they just use Sony's batteries. Takes care of both data and thief in one blow.

    LOL ! That gives me an idea - would it be possible to write a Lojack type app, which when triggered remotely and covertly, would stress the power supply and make the batteries explode ?
    That would teach a thief to steal laptops. (Or teach a scumbag to buy stolen laptops for that matter)
    --

    Look back up at my post, now look back down, you're on the Internet. Now look back up. I'm a signature.
    1. Re:Remote Kaboom ? by Itsacon · · Score: 2, Insightful

      would it be possible to write a Lojack type app, which when triggered remotely and covertly, would stress the power supply and make the batteries explode ?

      You wouldn't even need to stress the power supply. Just tell the charger-circuit the battery voltage is 2 volts lower than it really is. Any LiIon drive will explode or at least seriously burn out at the next full charge cycle...

      You'd need some plastic explosives for NiCad and NiMH batteries though, they're much tougher.

      --
      I take life with a grain of salt...a slice of lemon and a dash of tequila
  51. Write-only disk drive? by wsanders · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Easy DIY project - the write-only disk drive!

    Reminds me of the colleague who asked "What is the best program to convert files?"

    Answer: "Well, rm converts files into free disk space very efficiently!"

    --
    Give a man a fish and you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish, and he'll say "WHERE'S MY FISH, YOU IDIOT?"
    1. Re:Write-only disk drive? by Deliveranc3 · · Score: 1

      I've been thinking of this actually, if you designed a filesystem based on a linked list system and had a HD technology that could write more than 50Tb then you would never need to delete anything.

      Think tiny dots on a piece of paper, how many billions of dots do you think you could fit on a pad of legal fullscap?

      HD tech is really slow, perhaps removing the nescessity to erase it would remove the limiting factor.

    2. Re:Write-only disk drive? by scottv67 · · Score: 1

      if you designed a filesystem based on a linked list system and had a HD technology that could write more than 50Tb then you would never need to delete anything.

      How many years have you been using meth? Are you worried about its negative effects on your brain?

    3. Re:Write-only disk drive? by BrynM · · Score: 2, Informative

      I have a physical version of this somewhere, but it was easy enough to google a PDF. I give you Write Only Memory (WOM). It's a joke so old, it has a Wikipedia page.

      --
      US Democracy:The best person for the job (among These pre-selected choices...)
    4. Re:Write-only disk drive? by name*censored* · · Score: 1
      How many years have you been using meth? Are you worried about its negative effects on your brain? brain?
      --
      Commodore64_love: I don't comprehend people who're so frightened of death that they'll bankrupt themselves to stay alive
    5. Re:Write-only disk drive? by fourchannel · · Score: 1
      I've been thinking of this actually, if you designed a filesystem based on a linked list system and had a HD technology that could write more than 50Tb then you would never need to delete anything. Think tiny dots on a piece of paper, how many billions of dots do you think you could fit on a pad of legal fullscap? HD tech is really slow, perhaps removing the nescessity to erase it would remove the limiting factor.
      You might find this somewhat interesting.

      http://colossalstorage.net/home_diskdrive.htm
      --
      ---FourChannel---
  52. Re:DoD spec.? Seven times... stop repeating the my by Bastard+of+Subhumani · · Score: 0
    This also applies to flash media (compact flash, USB memory sticks). Same rules.
    Please tell me they do it with RAM too.
    --
    Only three things are certain; death, taxes, and apocryphal quotations - Ben Franklin.
  53. No. DoD grade is not 7 overwrites. by Ayanami+Rei · · Score: 2, Informative

    DoD grade is complete destruction by an NSA-approved procedure. They remove and shred the platters.

    Please don't perpetuate that myth. DoD would rather not deal with issues like unpredictable sector reallocation, varying densities of magnetic domains... it's much simpler (and much faster) to destroy the drive.

    Also, many vendors who supply hard drives with equipment on GSA schedule have policies that allow users to keep harddrives from leased machines for destruction, or for sending empty drive shells back for RMA replacement of failed drives.

    --
    THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
    1. Re:No. DoD grade is not 7 overwrites. by LurkerXXX · · Score: 4, Informative

      DoD grade is complete destruction by an NSA-approved procedure. They remove and shred the platters.

      Please don't perpetuate that myth.


      Actually there are several different levels of DOD grade in handling of hard drives depending on the grade of the information on them (unclassified, secret, top secret, etc).

      I refer you to the Clearing and Sanitization Matrix.

      Approved ways to 'Sanatize' (as opposed to 'Clear') hard drives include:

      "d. Overwrite all addressable locations with a character, its complement, then a random character and verify. THIS METHOD IS NOT APPROVED FOR SANITIZING MEDIA THAT CONTAINS TOP SECRET INFORMATION."

      So overwriting is indeed DOD approved, just not for "top Secret" information.

      Top Secret data may be 'Sanatized' by:

      "a. Degauss with a Type I degausser"
      "b. Degauss with a Type II degausser."

      As well as

      "m. Destroy - Disintegrate, incinerate, pulverize, shred, or melt."

      -- which seems to be the only one you are familiar with.

      Please do your research before accusing someone of perpetuating myths.

  54. No. DRAM is fine. by Ayanami+Rei · · Score: 1

    They actually have guidelines for core memory :-) and CRT screens, which can leave magnetic signatures.

    But uh capicator-based DRAM (and SRAM) is all good, just remove power.

    --
    THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
  55. 2 lb hammer works pretty well by wsanders · · Score: 1

    As long as the platters are bent or even just slightly trashed, you're probably OK. The drive saver guys can't work with those. "Special expertise" is required. Even the "backed over with a truck" scenario requires working with a drive whose head/plater assembly is largely intact, then attaching a new circuit board if the circuit board has been smashed. They can open up the drive and do minimal repairs since they work in a clean room.

    A coworker used to have a hardware device (used for testing as well) that would wipe a drive by repeatedly writing patterns, but multiple passes are required and it takes several hours (2 to 5 times what it takes to reformat.) It's cheaper to just take old drives outside and back over them repeatedly with your car until they are completely flat. "Repeatedly" is important to make sure the platters are thoroughly damaged.

    If you are worried about whether some entity is going to recover data from your bent platters, well, you probably have your own special set of problems and should be more worried about checking under your car each time you get in, etc.

    --
    Give a man a fish and you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish, and he'll say "WHERE'S MY FISH, YOU IDIOT?"
  56. Back in the days of ST506... by CustomDesigned · · Score: 2, Informative

    I repaired many a hard drive (10, 20, 30 Megabytes with an M) by squirting WD-40 on the bearing. In those days, the bearings were exposed, and did not require opening the case.

    1. Re:Back in the days of ST506... by Elbowgeek · · Score: 1

      You're bringing back memories. I remember those had a particular problem with seizing up and indeed, WD40 was the fix.

      But I did at one time have a 5-MB drive working with my turbo-xt clone machine which had it's lid removed and platters exposed. Worked great for quite a while actually.

      Cheers

      --
      Who is this delectable creature with an insatiable love of the dead?
    2. Re:Back in the days of ST506... by tttonyyy · · Score: 1

      Foolhardy! Those of us that kite-landboard and rely on our bearings not to faceplant us into the sand at speed, know that WD-40 is a BAD PLAN for long term lubrication, as it dissolves the grease that bearings are usually packed with. Far better to use something like GT-80 - trust me on that one. :)

      --
      biopowered.co.uk - catalytically cracking triglycerides for home automotive use since 2008. Just say no to big oil!
    3. Re:Back in the days of ST506... by Itsacon · · Score: 1

      Hmm, next time (if it ever comes) I advice against WD-40. Use a (syntetic) lubricating oil instead. WD-40 is designed to loosen stuck nuts & bolts and stuff, its viscosity is way to low to be a good lubicant, especially in a high-speed location like a harddisk bearing, it'll be flung out of the bearing after a few minutes.

      --
      I take life with a grain of salt...a slice of lemon and a dash of tequila
    4. Re:Back in the days of ST506... by Elbowgeek · · Score: 1

      Which could explain why the bearings would inevitably seize up again after a while. Very interesting...

      --
      Who is this delectable creature with an insatiable love of the dead?
  57. Another Privacy aspect by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Note to self: do not send my disk to OnTrack after doing something stupid. I don't want to end up on the front page of Slashdot.

  58. Re: Degaussing. by Ayanami+Rei · · Score: 1

    Well you can't degauss a modern hard disk and then re-use it... so unless you have lots of bulk tape there's no point investing in a degausser since it's essentially free to destroy at the NSA (you just send it in with the rest of your printed material, appropriate labeled in document control, of course).

    DSA also recommends not to sanitize and re-use secret-level hard disks anyway because it occurs often enough that projects that were once Secret become Top Secret and then you have to go round up all those disks and destroy them (among other implications if they are out in the open). I'm not getting this from the NISPOM, this is just what some of their guys recommended as best practice and it makes control procedures a bit easier (the paperwork for doing sanitization of media in document control is a bitch).

    Also, DSS released that matrix years ago. It's not an official part of the NISPOM, and people like to claim that it is. It's just a guide. DSS and the NSA have the ultimate authority and they approve your operating procedurs. Currently, they'd like you to send the documents (in this case, the disk platters) back to them unless it's confidential/FOUO/SBU, and thus not under control.

    For SBU, a 3 pass is just fine. That's the method we use.

    --
    THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
  59. Waterproof by waterford0069 · · Score: 2, Informative
    As any scuba diver knows, waterproof is rarely truly waterPROOF. Notice it says Water "Resistant".

    Typically your waterproof watch is good to 50ft - which means, you can probably shower with it on. It can handle NO dynamic forces.

    Your waterproof watch that's good to 100ft - you can have a bath.

    Your waterproof watch that's good to 100m (changing scale) - you can go swimming with. I've even used one for recreational diving (so long as you don't press any buttons you are probably OK).

    Your waterproof watch that is good to 300m - that's pretty close to waterproof for all practical means.

    If the camera really was billed as a waterproof/resistant camera (suitable for scuba diving and snorkelling), and it was appropriately cared for (it was sealed properly, and the o-rings were greased to the manufacturer's directions) - I'd be tearing the manufacturer a new one.

  60. More Marketing "News" from OnTrack by guruevi · · Score: 1

    This is just a shameless plug for OnTrack data recovery. It's of course funny to know what people do to their hard drives and how stupid some people are...

    --
    Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
  61. WD-40 is not a lubricant by noidentity · · Score: 1

    Repeat after me: WD-40 is not a lubricant; it actually cleans oil off.

    1. Re:WD-40 is not a lubricant by Anonymous+Cowled · · Score: 1

      WD-40 is not a lubricant

      It depends what you want it to do - WD-40 is a penetrating oil. Penetrating oils have many uses, one of which is a lubricant for seized parts. In this use, it is very effective, however, it is not a good general purpose lubricant, due to the high content of volatile solvents - which is why it can be used to clean oil off a surface - although this is not ideal either, because of the oil content of the product.

    2. Re:WD-40 is not a lubricant by coolhandcl · · Score: 1

      In actuality WD_40 is a water drying agent. That is what is was designed for and is one of it's best uses. It works great on wet plug wires and does a fair job as a penetrating oil. The WD_40 name comes from the fact that it is a water drying agent and it was the 40th attempt to get it right.

  62. Less drastic measure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Simply let the machine sit for a few hours. I had a laptop go bad like that. I let it sit for a few hours, and was able to get it back up long enough to copy my work over the LAN. It wouldn't have been the end of the world, since backups were weekly, but a few patient hours saved a few days work in this case, and as well as some application data that wasn't normally backed up.

  63. Re: Degaussing. by LurkerXXX · · Score: 1

    Well you can't degauss a modern hard disk and then re-use it... so unless you have lots of bulk tape there's no point investing in a degausser since it's essentially free to destroy at the NSA

    So? I don't get to destroy my data at the NSA. If you'd bothered to read my original post, I was talking about HIPPA protected data. I have no ties to the NSA. So I don't get to have the NSA destroy my data for free. I was talking about destruction up to the level of those of DOD published standards. DSS is part of the DOD. And these were standards published by it.

    Also, DSS released that matrix years ago. It's not an official part of the NISPOM, and people like to claim that it is. It's just a guide.

    Where exactly did I claim it was part of the "Operating Manual"???

    And it certainly was issued as a part of NISP.

    "This Manual is issued in accordance with the National Industrial Security Program (NISP). The Manual prescribes requirements, restrictions, and other safeguards that are necessary to prevent unauthorized disclosure of classified information and to control authorized disclosure of classified information released by U.S. Government Executive Branch Departments and Agencies to their contractors. The Manual also prescribes requirements, restrictions, and other safeguards that are necessary to protect special classes of classified information, including Restricted Data, Formerly Restricted Data, intelligence sources and methods information, Sensitive Compartmented Information, and Special Access Program information. These procedures are applicable to licensees, grantees, and certificate holders to the extent legally and practically possible within the constraints of applicable law and the Code of Federal Regulations."

    It's just not in the current NISP Operating Manual. The data destruction methods in the current NISPOM are mainly concerned with paper/microfilm. There is no explicit mention of any other storage media in the destruction section.

  64. Uhhh whuh? by Asrynachs · · Score: 0

    Explain to me how you can format a hard drive 10 times and still get the information back. That means that my current hard drive has all the information on it from its previous incarnations as a portable drive and a paperweight.

    1. Re:Uhhh whuh? by CaptainCarrot · · Score: 1

      Formatting doesn't overwrite all the sectors on the disk; it just marks them as available. In many cases, it's possible to re-create the file system.

      --
      And the brethren went away edified.
  65. Different controller by dargaud · · Score: 1

    One thing I've noticed when a drive starts crapping out, is that the controller is very important in getting the data off the drive. Case in point: this morning I had a 400Gb drive start whirring loudly, then the server would grind to a halt and go forward for only one second every 30 seconds, although no access was being done on that drive. Moving the drive to a USB enclosure was a failure ("new hardware is connected - wait, no, hardware just disconnected"). And then I tried a PCI controller board. Copied 400Gb in one pass, not a hitch.

    --
    Non-Linux Penguins ?
  66. Re:DoD spec.? Seven times... stop repeating the my by dotgain · · Score: 1
    They do it with RAM, too.

    Can I get a purchase order number, please?

  67. OnTrack Rocks by Actual+Reality · · Score: 0

    I had a customer once that left the same TR3 backup tape in the driver for several years. When their hard drive crashed and they really needed the backup, to say it was caked with dust in an understatement. I don't know how OnTrack got the data off of that tape, but my hat is off to them! Cheers!

  68. What NOT to do with your data.... by Hap76 · · Score: 1

    Send it to these people to recover? If so, you should check your credit card receipts afterwards, and hope there were no other embarrassing moments on your HD..

    Or perhaps just skip a step and report your experiences on a blog; instead of wondering why you were stupid enough to do THAT, people will wonder why you were stupid enough to do that and write about it, although at least the experience won't cost you anything extra (well, other than your self-respect, but you weren't going to salvage that anyway).

  69. re: freezer trick by King_TJ · · Score: 1

    Yeah, tried the freezer trick (which did work for me once before). No luck. I think the motor in the drive simply died.

    The freezer trick is more likely to work in cases where a component on the circuit board of the drive is defective/failing. (Bad components often still function as long as they're cold enough, but quit performing within normal specs when they warm up.)

    That's also why the old-time TV repairmen used to carry a spray can of "component cooler" with them. They could temporarily chill individual parts until they found a culprit.

  70. Re: Degaussing. by scottv67 · · Score: 1

    I was talking about HIPPA protected data.

    That's twice now. How is it that you've heard of the term but don't know how to spell it? Do you consult for a healthcare organization?

  71. Re:DoD spec.? Seven times... stop repeating the my by dbIII · · Score: 2, Interesting
    But disks can never go lower. Than can only be destroyed by melting or shredding

    You don't have to melt it - get it above the curie temperature and it isn't ferromagnetic anymore so any magnetic information is lost. It doesn't even have to be for long - an intense enough shock wave gives you enough local heating to do it - so a bullet through the drive may well wipe the entire drive.

    To be sure you would have to use a large bullet or put the thing in the oven for long enough for the heat to even out. By doing this you cook the board, explode the capacitors and melt the solder - so a mechanical shredder is probably less hassle and gives you enough microstructural damage that putting the pieces back together again would still give you incomplete maganetic information - shredding would get the parts hot too.

  72. Re: Degaussing. by LurkerXXX · · Score: 1

    Heh, sorry. It's one of those typo's I just can't seem to break.

  73. Re: freezer trick by dbIII · · Score: 1
    The freezer trick is more likely to work in cases where a component on the circuit board of the drive is defective/failing.

    In most cases it is just the bearing and shrinking it a bit allows the drive to spin up. Most metals contract if you reduce the temperature.

    An extreme example of this that I saw was a 200kg copper piston stuck in a shock tunnel (simulates mach 7 airflow) which was pulled out by drilling a lot of holes in it and pouring in a lot of liquid nitrogen.

  74. Angels dancing on the head of a pin by Meph_the_Balrog · · Score: 1

    The best solution I've seen is a random, 5 pass wipe process, followed by grinding the platters into powder. Knowing the magnetic polarity on a grain of HDD platter is one thing, figuring out the alignment and positional information of it is something else entirely.

  75. nothing a dictionary can't solve... by rabiddeity · · Score: 1

    The article is not factually untrue per se. But its representation as a news article is deceptive. See definitions 4 and 6.

    false (fôls)
    adj. falser, falsest

    1. Contrary to fact or truth: false tales of bravery.
    2. Deliberately untrue: delivered false testimony under oath.
    3. Arising from mistaken ideas: false hopes of writing a successful novel.
    4. Intentionally deceptive: a suitcase with a false bottom; false promises.
    5. Not keeping faith; treacherous: a false friend.
    6. Not genuine or real: false teeth; false documents.
    7. Erected temporarily, as for support during construction.
    8. Resembling but not accurately or properly designated as such: a false thaw in January; the false dawn peculiar to the tropics.
    9. Music. Of incorrect pitch.
    10. Unwise; imprudent: Don't make a false move or I'll shoot.
    11. Computer Science. Indicating one of two possible values taken by a variable in Boolean logic or a binary device.
    adv. In a treacherous or faithless manner: play a person false.

    "false." The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition. Houghton Mifflin Company, 2004. 16 Nov. 2006.
    http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=false

  76. Oxidation is the problem... by SonicSpike · · Score: 1

    Yeah - generally the problem with washing off components is the oxidation that will follow in short order. That can of course cause problems later on, but it will work for a quick fix.

    --
    Libertas in infinitum
  77. Ask Google by wsanders · · Score: 1

    These days, 50 TB is a pretty wuss file system. I'll bet a significant number of /.ers have 50TB in their bedroom file server.

    Google, apprently, intends to write all data it encounters, forever, and I bet they have a room full of people whose job it is to buy storage capacity by the Tens of Petabytes, and still it's not enough for their plan for world domination, BWAA HAA HAA HAA!

    If you're in between those extremes, you will end up purging old files sooner or later.

    --
    Give a man a fish and you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish, and he'll say "WHERE'S MY FISH, YOU IDIOT?"