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Organic Matter Found In Canadian Meteorite
eldavojohn writes "From what sounds like the opening of an X-Files episode, Canadian scientists have reportedly found in a meteorite organic matter older than the sun at Tagish Lake in Canada. From the article: '"We mean that the material in the meteorite has been processed the least since it was formed. The material we see today is arguably the most representative of the material that first went into making up the solar system." The meteorite likely formed in the outer reaches of the asteroid belt, but the organic material it contains probably had a far more distant origin. The globules could have originated in the Kuiper Belt group of icy planetary remnants orbiting beyond Neptune. Or they could have been created even farther afield. The globules appear to be similar to the kinds of icy grains found in molecular clouds — the vast, low-density regions where stars collapse and form and new solar systems are born.' The article implies that life could potentially survive in these meteorites and maybe even travel through space — supporting the theory that life may have arrived on earth and evolved from that point on."
No, apparently we're here.
I for one welcome our new organic material evolved overlords. And by overlords, I mean us.
Since the organic matter is older than the sun, this means that:
1. Either there is extra-solar life,
or 2. Stars can create organic material.
But how would the ordinary life-forms that we know of survive deep space?
Ninjas and pirates. How piquant.
it's just carbon compounds.
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
IT'S THE BLOB!
It actually sounds much more like Dan (Da Vinci Code) Brown's bad novel, "Deception Point."
"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!
I knew it! Canadians are from outerspace!
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I've seen this movie... the organisms evolve... then get sprayed with napalm while Canada gets a dose of Head and Shoulders... or was it the other way round?
Ninjas use italics.
So from what I read they structures found COULD assist organic life, but are not actual evidence of them.
Cwm, fjord-bank glyphs vext quiz
Life found in Canada! Wow!
Demented But Determined.
Keep in mind that organic does NOT = life, just a precursor to life. Organic molecules/matter are generally just molecules containing carbon and hydrogen making a chainlike skeleton of atoms, with oxygen and/or nitrogen depending on if it is a protein. (Source). This DOES back up the hypothesis that organic molecules can form just as well outside of early earth, as in. It'll be interesting to hear just what the molecules were, but I doubt this will spawn any new theories about the extra-solar genesis of life on earth. It doesn't take special space-dust to provide organic compounds in the early earth - just the atoms from the life cycle of stars spreading heavier elements.
Ryan Fenton
Does that mean the meteorite pulverized some ancient astronouts in a far away galaxy?
THAT might be the reason we haven't gotten contact yet with them; they would've cancelled their space project after such a PR-disaster...
I think we can keep recursing like this until someone returns 1
Does this mean we're all Canadians!!!?
NOOOOOOOO
If you don't know what AltaVista is (was), get off my lawn.
Earth didnt just appear out of nothingness... it had to get its organic compound from somewhere!
Hence "nothing is created, nothing is lost, all is transformed".
Still, it's pretty cool to have a piece of hard evidence to back up an obvious explanation.
Andromeda Strain comes to life?
--- Asking inconvenient questions for over 30 years...
It is MUCH closer to the science of Fred Hoyle's great novel "The Black Cloud" [Harper & Row, 1964; Science Fiction Book Club; Signet]. Life evolved in Giant Molecular Clouds, became intelligent, one comes to our Solar System, blocks sunlight, causing predecessor to concept of nuclear winter; society restructured in face of climate change. Great, prescient novel by radical astronomer.
[Sir] Fred Hoyle, famous British astronomer, leading sceptic of (and namer of) the "Big Bang" cosomology and leader of the alternative "Steady State Hypothesis." With Wickramasinghe, originated the theory that bacteria and viruses come from outer space ("panspermia").
Novels by him and his son exist; now solo novels by his son. For more, see: Science Fiction Writers with last names starting "Ho"
Professor Jonathan Vos Post
Organic matter has been found in meteorites decades ago.
Sounds like the remains of the Canadian who came almost all the way back from the stars
Canadian scientists discovered a black, oily substance inside a meteorite...agh...ah...agh...act normally and await further instructions.
The truth is out there, aye.
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
Attributed to Anaxagoras ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anaxagoras ) in the 5th century BCE. Basically the idea the precursors to life are everywhere in the universe, allowing that life on earth may have sprung from this source.
It seems plausible. This evidence doesn't prove it though.
FTA:
Fullerene? That would explain a lot about the persistence of these structures through the process of transport and reentry.
Disclaimer: "God moves in mysterious ways His wonders to perform." - William Cowper ( for varying values of "God", "mysterious", "wonders" - symbolset )
Help stamp out iliturcy.
Methane (CH4) found for example in vast quantities on the most outer planet, Plutonium, is also an organic compound. But it does not mean that there is, or has ever been, life. First, we need to know when compound it was. Otherwise there's really nothing to talk about.
Im actually interested, how do you measure the age of an object so old, when its not from earth ?
I mean the amount of radioactive materials that fall apart a thousand or so years after being 'inserted' into a certain object is valid only if we know the amount on the env surrounding it.
How do we know how old this thing is without actually being sure where it came from ?
Maybe there was less of the izotope in the env. ?
Or maybe there was much, much more of it ?
This is besides the point if the rock actually contains some fossilized life forms, if its a billion years younger or older, then this fact makes a pretty big difference, right ?
I understand that the age of stars can be measured by the spectrum (iirc, as light travels further/longer it leans towards one of the edges).
I also get how we can determine how we check the basic building block of an object a milion light years away by the light spectrum too.
But the age, when we are not really sure of the exact amount of izotopes in the env. ?
Could somebody educate this fool with a friendly wikipedia link ?
Quite frankly, I fail to see how this affects the recent rise of lolography on the internet. Perhaps we can harvest the organic material to create a device to aid humanity in frying bacon shirtless, without risk of trauama.
things, but Dan Brown is actually a good author. I guess the new Slashdot prefers Jerry Falwell.
Please, for the good of Humanity, vote Obama.
Well Jerry does come up with a lot of good fiction.
-- I ignore anonymous replies to my comments and postings.
What kind of "news" story makes such a big deal out of such a fundamentally important claim - "organic matter older than the Sun found in Canadian meteorites", but doesn't say exactly what makes these "globules" qualify as "organic"? The only details about the claimed "organic" matter are that they "resemble minute hollow balls with carbon-rich shells", where "minute" is vaguely implied to be smaller than 10 um^3. (a billionth the volume of a grape).
There's more info detailing that the Yukon is cold and unpopulated than any info about how this carbon is "organic".
In fact, practically all carbon on the Earth is older than the Sun. Carbon is produced in the cores of unusually massive stars, then distributed across the Universe after the star explodes in supernova or similarly huge cataclysm. Just composition of carbon, and the other "organic" elements (nitrogen, oxygen and hydrogen) essential to Earth organic chemistry, doesn't make these tiny grains accurately called "organic globules".
Maybe actual science, written by an actual journalist, could report the more important facts behind this sensational headline.
--
make install -not war
God created GOO. And He saw that it was GOOD.
So he sprayed it all over a bunch of his pet shit that was busy coalescing into a webbing of galactic vortices and pinpricks of fusion according to a set of the laws of physics he read out of an ad in the back of a magazine.
Now what we need is a big, big KLEENEX.
These stories are free but worth money.
Just a warning, Dan Brown's "Digital Fortress" is especially BAD.
I found Da Vinci tolerable because I don't know anything about the christian church but since Digital Fortress is about computers (which I and Slashdotters know about) it was excruciating.
Set in modern times the description of the big computer make it sound more like a steam engine!
Don't buy this book.
WRONG: ...
...
My life sci 101 class teached me that
CORRECT:
My life sci 101 class learned me that
Let's get it right, people.
--
Oh Yoshimi, they don't believe me
But you won't let those robots defeat me
iirc, only the outermost few centimeters of any incoming meteor are ever heated. If you come upon a just-crashed meteorite that is broken open, it will be cold on the inside, and the outside will be cool to the touch in (again iirc) minutes.
"A witty saying proves nothing." ~Voltaire
"d'Oh!" ~Homer
You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means. ;>
An organic compound is any member of a large class of chemical compounds whose molecules contain carbon and hydrogen. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organic_compound
Someone mod down the above moron, please.
...
...
CORRECT:
My life sci 101 class taught me that
Unless of course we're having some stupid competition for the lamest English possible, in which case I submit the following:
My life sci 101 class educatified me that
Given that almost all life uses left handed amino acids, perhaps that is were life came from: some meteorite that favored left handed forms.
That there aren't right handed forms also suggests life might be hard to get started (someone help out here, could left handed life forms get calories from right handed life forms?).
Ed Barbar, President and General Manager, Furnit USA
...Poutine, I'm guessing.
rewriting history since 2109
*ding*
We have a winner!
Even though I am deeply hurt by your insulting tone, I will concede that you are at least open to the possibility of humour. Other hints might be the use of "organical" and "lifes" in the subject line.
I haven't heard "educatify me" before, but I maybe you can learn me about it.
Cheers!
--
Dave - putting the 'pro' in procrastinate
A Canadian meteorite, dating from the formation of the solar system, has been found in Canada. Like many other meteorites, it contains organic matters. The article doesn't state it, but it is probably something akin to amino acids. Apparently, it is the first time this organic matter is found in spherical bubbles, that the original article misleadingly calls "globules". As usual, the article is light on technical details but heavy on wild crazy sensationalist extrapolation. The journalist would like to make believe that cells could have existed on these meteorites but unfortunately has strictly no evidence of this.
"The structures are invisible to the naked eye and resemble minute hollow balls with carbon-rich shells. A chunk of meteorite no larger than a grape could contain a billion of the tiny globules.
Theoretically, their hollow-ball shape could have presented a homey environment of concentrated organic matter where early cellular life could develop.
Such theories boast little evidence but raise many intriguing questions. " (emphasis mine)
The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
I wouldn't believe the dating results for these types of things. There is a big problem with trying to date asteroids, meteorites and such.
m e.html for the details. This is not some crazy idea. Labs already perform corrections on raw carbon dating data due to electromagnetic bombardment into the atmosphere (which affects the amount of carbon isotopes in the atmosphere, which are then inhaled by living things).
f .
Absolute dating assumes that isotopes degrade in a purely statistical manner. There is reason to believe, however, that changes in electromagnetic bombardment of an isotope can affect the decay of those isotopes. Using a simple experimental apparatus, decay rates can be correlated with the phases of the moon, the motions of the Sun and the stars. Go to http://www.21stcenturysciencetech.com/articles/ti
There is also good reason to believe since the Deep Impact mission to Comet Tempel 1 that comets are merely asteroids on elliptical orbits that have picked up the voltage of deep space and then come into range of the Sun's weak electric field. Rather than being the trail of sublimating ice, the comet's coma and tail are evidence of electric machining. This makes sense because asteroids have occasionally been observed to turn into comets near the gas giant planets. If this is true, then this would mean that asteroids are regularly exposed to potentially large amounts of electromagnetic radiation. For more information, go here: http://www.thunderbolts.info/pdf/ElectricComet.pd
This process of electric machining would almost surely affect the dating ages of these objects *if* the experiment linked to above is true. It might also explain why some craters don't quite date to the years that we think they should.
This of course causes all sorts of problems for archaeology, geology and astronomy, and this fact alone might induce a lot of scientists to want to look the other way. So, I wouldn't expect a lot of curiosity on these things so long as they pose such a threat to research that has already been done.
"A man cannot begin to learn that which he thinks he already knows." --Epictetus, 1st Century A.D.
Quickly! Start building the giant robots! The Aerogaters (AKA Balmar Empire) are coming!
Surely finding organic compounds should change the name of a meteorite to a meateorite. Yummy!
When the posters fear their moderators, there is tyranny; when the moderators fears the posters, there is liberty.
So we can nuke Tagish Lake like in the movie?
-- I have a private email server in my basement.
Certainly, organic molecules are required for life as we know it. But there are many other possibilities.
Why do we assume that there is no life in some place we can't explore, like inside the Sun? Certainly there is no life there based on complex carbon molecules. However, what excludes the possibility of life based on such other mechanism?
"Screw Sun, cross-platform will never work. Let's move on and steal the Java language." - Visual J++ Product Manager
That'll learn 'em.
don't panic!
Now I'm modded Flamebait.
It just gets wronger and wronger.
Mod parent up. Organic != life. They just tend to go together here on Earth.
"I'm a Laver, not a Phyto[plankton]"
...all hail the great Flying Spaghetti Monster!
It could also be Cthulhu's spit
Oh, I already feel the horror
mostly water.
A blog about stuff.
hummm... how do people know how old the Sun is? did archaeologists dig up some samples and carbon-dated them?
I figure the reason why we haven't yet found evidence of life outside of earth is that we haven't properly looked. The cursory and remote search conducted this far could hardly be considered justification for a proper search warrant if we were looking for evidence of a minor crime. For something this much more important a far more thorough look is justified before we call a lack of evidence evidence of lack.
None of this has to do with TFA. The speculation at this point is, I believe, that the meteorite wherein the mysterious material is found comes from the oort cloud and thus predates the solar system. That would make it remnants of a supernova ~6 billion years ago or so, or something even stranger. Even the investigators aren't calling it life.
The life or not question aside, this article is a reminder. Our solar system is crossing through the plane of the Milky Way galaxy, as it does every 40 million years or so. Things from outside our solar system are known to fall on the Earth when this happens, as this one did. Not all of these things can be described as small. Perhaps coincidentally, every 40 million years some unpleasantness occurs in the fossil record. Hopefully someone, somewhere, is considering these facts as a collection.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
Chemical reactions can occur in places other than Earth.
Dan East
Better known as 318230.
--- If it harm none do what you will shall be the whole of the law.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
...This means no Pesticides, right?
The "science" in Angels and Demons drove me nuts.
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In chemistry, "organic matter" refers to hydrocarbons.
"Scotty, you're right, there is no intelligent life down there! They think they are the only ones.".
Dude, *you* are life in space.
Look at it from the perspective of another SpaceLifeForm discovering you on another planet.
You are being MICROattacked, from various angles, in a SOFT manner.
Article on Organic compound says:
I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
There is a question I was thinking of, perhaps you can shed some light on the subject... It is known that time is a relative thing, when objects move at different speeds, time 'flows' differently for each of them.
How do the dating methods deal with this? I mean, doesn't the obtained result simply state how old an object is if it 'spent its entire life' in an environment such as ours (is this a reasonable assumption?)?
The saddest poem
[/sarcasm] dumbass. What strikes me even moreso is these various posts involving people jumping to conclusions about strangers they've just met, then placing ridiculous value judgements on them. She likes Harry Potter and that makes her not smart? Are you some authority on literature? I know I'm coming off abrasively but it's not solely directed at you, particularly given the other responses to this part of the thread. Maybe there is something to be said for not being so intellectually snobby, you're (once again not just you, but including you) closing a lot of doors that might have really great things behind them.
Happy goldfish bowl to you.
When you look at a system like Conways 'Game of Life' it's common to find things that reproduce themselves. Add in the ability of a cell on the grid to occasionally 'mutate' by changing state in contravention to the basic rules and it's not hard to imagine sooner or later, a self-reproducing pattern would spontaneously emerge - and that could eventually evolve intelligence. So it seems reasonable that life (and possibly even sentient life) could emerge in a system that's as simple at that. Whether it's possible in practice must depend on the detailed chemistry of whether a system with enough rules to function like that could emerge in situations other than a water-based but hydrocarbon-rich environment.
I don't see why life could not spontaneously arise in interstellar gasses or in the center of a star - I doubt we'd recognise it though - something that worked like the "game of life" in interstellar gasses might take thousands of years to form a single 'thought' whilst life forms in the center of a star might live brief, energetic lives at rates of a fraction of a second per generation.
...but love advice on slashdot? Yeah right!
Go back to arguing about linux distros, spouting perpetual motion nonsense, or something you're at least marginally qualified to comment on.
And only natural sourced fertilizer, a common form is bullshit.
Wabi-Sabi
Matthew
and aI cannot beleive one of you didnt grab the classic line
"Well it should be okay as long as we don't LICK it!' from creep show"
or am I just showing my age...
-m
-Magdalene --"there are 10 types of people in the world, those who read binary, and those who don't"
As a Native North American, and, as I am certain beyond some type of reasonable doubt, indigenous cultures throughout the world will concede to a single notion independently: "we've always been here" This discovery gives (in my view of the Grander Scheme of things) a tremendous boost to a theory that life evolved in MANY places throughout the globe independently of each other. I am from the Pacific Northwest and I have heard many oral stories depicting life coming from the water. Sound familiar? You see, languages WILL change over time...The symbolism remains rock steady. Time can be rendered irrelevant so long as life prevails. I for one am a firm believer that time is irrelavent, and, that life evolved all over, not out of one place. Just becase one set of data (i.e. human and homin and hominid type) points to a particular place, does it HAVE to be that way? You tell me what is more likely: God chose one place on earth to seed life and let the natural forces do the rest, i.e. time, environment, et. and the hominid line went abot 12 million years basically unchanged then KA-BAM! Here we are now wondering how so much biodiversity could have evolved so much in so little time. OR The "debris" fell on earth and the hydro carbons substantiated in this find "fraternized" with the world around it and constantly reorganized itself to make the environment around it more habitable, hence we get the definition of evolution. No matter how one wants to interpret it, it's pretty remarkable.