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Apple's Smart Phone Depends on OS X Tie-Ins
anaesthetica writes "According to AppleInsider, Apple is not only working on a cellphone + mp3 player iPhone, but is working on a second model designed to be a smart phone, highly integrated with Mac OS and .Mac. The smart phone has gone through several iterations, as the notoriously demanding Mr. Jobs ordered the elite team working on the phone to redesign and re-engineer their prototypes. Capabilities are reported to include Front Row interface, syncing contacts and iCal with .Mac, "call ahead", iChat video conferencing integration, WiFi, and a slide-out keyboard. Too good to be true?"
The smart phone can't wipe my arse and spoon-feed me too?
No sir, I DON'T LIKE IT!
That's sooo Osama bin Laden.
.... appears to be taking a page out of the M$ playbook and tying the device tightly to the OS to drive OS X sales. One would hope that he is also smart enough to have the phone be usable to users of Windows & *INX without hopping though hoops to do it.
This is my opinion. To make sure you don't steal it, it's covered by the DMCA.
A phone I can plug a usb cable into and drop pictures/sounds/contract directly from my computer.
A nice easy interface to do this with.
Stop dollaring us to death when we want a picture or a ring tone that we create.
If it can have music as well, bonus.
IT would be neat if it used the same connection as the iPod
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
not a new phone.
When the US Cellular shackles are removed from me, I'm going to jump to cingular. I'd have considered Verizon, as their overall coverage in my area is the best of any provider, but I just can't handle the crippling they put on their hardware.
(No, I'm not a shill for cingular - I'm not even a customer yet. Yes, it's the second time I've linked to an 8525...what can I say, I think it's a cool pda/phone)
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
You aren't forced to use iTunes with atleast Windows. I use Winamp... It rocks your socks of!
Stop using verizon. My phone uses bluetooth (no cable involved) and windows treats it like a file system (IBM/Lenovo laptop) that I can browse and move stuff to/from the phone whenever I want. Mac OS X uses the bluetooth file transfer utility, and I think you have to do that if you're using a non-IBM/lenovo laptop as well (or an IBM/Lenovo laptop without their bluetooth stack). I use Cingular. Most GSM phones are the same. Verizon is the only one to cripple their bluetooth so badly, that I know of.
Unfortunately, at least in the US, the wireless providers have a stranglehold on phone manufacturers. If the providers don't like your phone because it cuts into their profits, they will neither offer it for sale nor allow it to be activated on their network. AFAIK, only GSM customers have choice due to SIM cards, but the top two providers in the US use CDMA technology (which doesn't use SIM cards or any equivalent).
If you reply, do so only to what I explicitly wrote. If I didn't write it, don't assume or infer it.
CmdrTaco, is that you?
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
... and I don't want to be forced to use it for making calls either, who are they to tell me what I want in a phone!
Wow, steve jobs comes into your house an dpoint a gun at your head to make you use iTunes with your iPod? Wow.
Don't tell him, but I use one of the many other tools available for putting items into your iPod.
SSHhhhhh...
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
It's not like the rumor is exactly new. There is the claim by a company that they received manufacturing orders from Apple, as well as other claims from the rumor-mill (e.g. Kevin Rose's claim that his friend at Apple has a 4GB and a 8GB phone).
.mac. It's not like I can actually afford the iPDA .. forcing me to pay a monthly subscription for owning a piece of hardware is too much.
I remember when buying my Macbook Pro there were all sorts of rumors not to buy one. That there would something to be shortly released that would supersede it (of course, at the time, the only thing that could be cooler was a iTablet). People claim that Apple enjoys these rumors, though I have to imagine to some extent it hurts their sales. Some speculate it is a good way for them to figure out what the public wants. Others that it is simply subterfuge to hide their real activity from their competitors.
I give this rumor *some* credence simply because it seems like the hardware is already there. It's not that large of a stretch of an imagination to think of a Nano being put together with a cell phone -- much like how many cell phone companies are putting ipod like devices with their cell phones. Which means the big question is whether Apple actually *wants* this. My suspicion is that easier access to the iTunes store is probably a large incentive to them.
Personally the iPhone isn't that appealing to me. If the only extra functionality I get from it is that it takes less space, I think I'll pass. However, as far as the iPDA -- that is something I'd want. The iPod already has a large HD (80GBs anyone?), a processor capable of playing music, games, doing calendaring, etc. Is it that big a of a stretch that it should be able to maybe do email? Maybe surf the web? Heck, if Opera can make a web browser for cell phones and DS, it's hard to see why not.
The big catch seems to be the input device. It's not clear how Apple feels about a stylus. However, things like the Blackberry seem to do well with just a keyboard and a scroll wheel. Sound familiar?
Also, please, really, PLEASE, if this does come true, don't make us subscribe to
A phone I can plug a usb cable into and drop pictures/sounds/contract directly from my computer.
I'm pretty sure my nokia 9300 does that. It has a very handy mmc slot too so I back up the system state and transfer it for safe keeping. I don't know if the nokia software is an "easy" interface, but it's okay. Runs the symbian OS and some j2me apps work well.
You can make your own ringtones too. Just transfer them as an mp3 onto the phone and you are good to go.
My understanding is this phone isn't very popular in the States. It's the best phone I've ever had and pretty hackable compared to some other phones.
http://www.maxineudall.com/2010/02/should-economists-be-sued-for-malpractice.html
IT would be neat if it used the same connection as the iPod
How about using a standard mini USB cable like the Motorola RAZR and KRAZR. My card reader, external HD, and phone all currently use the same cable and draw power/charge from the USB port. Although I think our ideas of carrying less cables are in the same vein as each other, I would like to see the use of non-proprietary cables with Apple's phone.
That includes the ringtone?
And if so, what files does it play for ringtones?
I ahve asked several stores about this, and they all said no. This include cingular.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Apple should indeed listen to you. You might have the answer as to why the iPod has been such a flop.
with iCal integration? Shit, the only thing I'm worried about it whether I'll be able to sell enough plasma to afford two of them.
there is no need to sign your posts. this isn't usenet. your username is right there above your post. stop it.
Seems natural. Last time I checked cellphones that run the proprietary, obsolete, incompatible and useless Microsoft Piece of Shit Mobile need a computer running the Microsoft Piece of Shit Windows system to exchange info and sync.
Glass
I talked to a rep about that with this very model, they said I couldn't do that.hmm..
OTOH I had to spend 10 minutes with her just to get her to understand what I wanted and why I wanted it.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
This is interesting, considering the Leopard release of iCalendar Server for OS X Server v. 10.5. Granted it talks about .mac integration now, but as long as it can sync with other iCalendar software (iCal Server, Google Calendar, Yahoo Calendar, etc.), the product becomes that much more impressive. That alone will be good news for current Mac users that want to have direct calendar updates without the hassle of syncing their calendar.
The other thing I liked was the mention of iChat Video Conferencing from the handset to a PC. That's something I have wanted with the Pocket PC for ages, and even various video phones. They have a camera, why couldn't they do video conferencing? With 3G wireless networks and phones that can take advantage of it, the technology is finally in place. That would make the iPhone worth it for me alone.
I had been trying to get cell-phone free for the past two years, and it looks like Apple is going to make that harder for me with this release.
I want an acceptable mobile browser (much like the proxied browser that the T-mobile Sidekick has). I don't want to have to scroll around the screen to see the entire thing and I don't want it formatted to look like ass. I certainly do not want WAP. I want to see the web page, as it was intended, on my device -- just smaller.
I want an adequate QWERTY keyboard. The Treo is not acceptable. The first few iterations of the T-mobile Sidekick SK -> SK2 were good. The new individual keys of the SK3 are not as good but remain superior to the Treo.
I want it to have wifi, GPRS and EDGE (or whatever advanced radio networking they have on other providers), as well as the ability to tether for free. I don't see why I should be paying higher rates because I have it hooked to a computer.
I want it to work with all OSs. I don't want to be tied to one or the other.
It should be available as a USB mass storage device and not require anything other than a USB cable.
The applications should be easy to use, understand, and modify to work regardless of provider.
It will remain a dream.
I think the crucial factors in an innovative iPhone are:
-Internal HD, not flash memory
-A deal with a global service provider for Data service rather than regular phone service
That opens up a world of possibilities over the shit we're used to...
-eyeraw
I have zero desire to look at web pages from a phone.
These days I have very little desire to look at a webpage on my computer!
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Microsofts zhone, a phone that allows easy integration with Windows Vista and Microsoft Outlook address book. Features include slide out keypad and "while you talk" automatic transmission of viruses to everyone in your address book. Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer says that the zhone is the latest in a stream of Microsoft innovations and that Apple Smart Phone users have an undisclosed balance sheet liability.
The zhone will be released to retail in fall 2007 and will be availiable in brown.
That was meant to be funny, but after re-reading it it looks like I should be modded down: -1 Asshole.
Oh well, sorry.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
My Motorola V600, from T-Mobile, does all this. To make a ringtone just copy the desired mp3 via bluetooth into the audio folder. Wallpapers go into another folder.
It's all straightforward - I think I had to deal with endian issues in the mp3; that was the only hangup.
#DeleteChrome
You do realize that third party developers can create applications for SmartPhones and PocketPC Phones that would allow a user to sync with a Mac, right? So the question is more.. why aren't third party developers doing this? I highly doubt you can blame Microsoft for that.
Oh, and just to note...
http://www.pocketmac.net/
You're welcome.
i do all of that with my Sony Ericsson z520 that i got for free from cingular. It does not have USB, just bluetooth (i like it better that way), but beyond that i can do everything you say in your post. It works like a disk with the OSX when i connect with bluetooth. The only issue i have with it is that i does not have a SD slot or any kind of expansion for additional Mp3s.
The war with islam is a war on the beast
The war on terror is a war for peace
Nokia 6315 here.
MicroSD works for me.
That could be a nifty slogan!
0xB315AA8D852DCD3F3DCA578FD2E0BF88
I would add one stoopid feature - a FLASHLIGHT!
Seriously - nothing fancy - just a single, white, LED bulb with a button on the side of the phone where I could dig for the keys I just dropped without having to grope like Mr. McGoo in the dark.
I'm asking for $0.10 for this feature, and would happily throw $20 at it just to not have to look for a !@#@! flashlight in a pinch.
I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
What would truly be wonderful is if they figured out a way to get it to tie back into any VoIP arrangement you may already have at home. Real VoIP (plugging in a Vonage black box doesn't count) is still the domain of hackers, at least in the SOHO market. Apple has the talent and the marketing skills to really kick it to the next level.
Tired of FB/Google censorship? Visit UNCENSORED!
P.S. Throw in WiFi and all of a sudden you're transitioning seamlessly (it's all IP) between T-Mobile's network and your home Airport network.
Apple FTW.
Apple controls fairplay, which is used in the number one music store, and refuses to license it. It got that monopoly by virtue of the fact that they control the DRM formats that can be played by their music play, which has an overwhelming share of the market.
So, now they are going to expand that - by virtue of large existing music collections - into a sizeable market for a mp3 playing phone. There will be only Apple's phone choice for these people who are already brought into the music store. They are then going to turn that into further lock in for the Mac platform by offering Mac only features rather than generic APIs to the hardware features.
As far as I can see the only difference between this and the office/windows lockin that Microsoft has going is that it's illegal to try and break Apple's DRM format. At least you can *try* and make an Office clone. This is not good news for customers!
I have no doubt that Apple will make a good, compelling product. I just wish that they would get slapped hard with respect to their degree of integration which is rapidly turning into lock in. It's actually easier to return Windows than an OSX license for example - that kind of thing should be enough of a warning sign already.
Think of the Children; Sleep with your Sister
are you sure they said it couldn't be done, or ... "you're not allowed to do that" :) they are trained to tell you that you can only do what they want you to do on their networks.
SyncML anyone?
Well, the ringtones from Cingular are MP3 files. Specifics: 22.05 kHz, 2-channel, 48 kb/s.
Yes, they're not even DRM'd! You can't transfer bought stuff using the phone, but if you transfer files from/to your phone via your computer, you're able to get the files.
'Yes, firefox is indeed greater than women. Can women block pops up for you? No. Can Firefox show you naked women? Yes.'
I can't speak for EVERY phone, but of the three phones I've owned with bluetooth, you can upload audio files and use them as ringtones. I don't remember what audio files I could use on my Nokia 3660, but between my S-E s710 and RAZR (hate the phone) I could use MIDI, MP3, and I assume WAV as ringtones. It's going to depend on your phone though. Chances are, unless it is severely crippled or really old, you'll be able to play some standard audio type. I'm sure you could write the company or check a public forum that is dedicated to the model phone you are interested in for more information.
as long as it works better then WM5, i'll buy it!
Personally, I look forward to seeing the iPhone. I have a RAZR, and it leaves a lot to be desired. I suspect Apple could do a very good job designing a cell phone and making it functional.
Don't quote them. It's absurd. They're highly inaccurate.
A crapload of phones will let you do this now, although not with contacts. Personally I'm a motorola guy, as lame as the interface is it's better for me than the Nokia phones and I refuse to buy a Sony anything anymore. I now have a RAZR V3i; it's got much better reception than prior RAZRs, almost as good as my V555 (which is selling on fleabay right now) and more importantly it's got a MicroSD slot (up to 1GB, I have 512MB) and a Mini-USB connection. The link is very slow but you can switch the phone to mass storage device mode and plug it into any computer, then drag and drop files. It supports GIF and JPEG, MP4 and 3GP video with AMR audio, and both mp3 and wav audio.
Naturally you can also take the teensy tiny memory card out of the phone, put it in an adapter, and put it in an SD slot, then transfer files to it as normal. Which is mostly what I do, but the card is TINY so I try not to take it out too much. You could lose the thing in a carpet.
I'm pretty sure other manufacturers have gone this road as well but I'm not familiar with their products. It looks like all Motorola's modern phones (ROKR, RAZR, KRZR) have this scheme; not all of them take memory cards, although AFAIK all the ROKRs do.
Final note, avoid motorola phones with itunes. Depending on the phone model they have an artificial limit of 50 or 100 songs, an attempt by apple to avoid killing the market for ipods. Motorola's Java music player has no such problem - and you can also use the built-in multimedia player instead. It also has playlist support and you can use your phone for other things while you're playing music with it.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
First of all if Apple is going to make a smart phone they have a lot of cathing up to do with Motorola, Nokia, Samsung and other big mobile phone manufacturers. There are a lot of things that go into a mobile phone. It's not as simple as an mp3 player. For example what radio technologies will the phone support? GSM, CDMA, WCDMA, HSDPA...
With smart phones one of most important thing for me is 3rd party apps. A smart phone is not much of use if there are no apps for it. Other manufacturers already have operating system that they have been using for a long time and there are a lot apps for them. Maybe Apple will have midp support, which is OK, but not quite like running native applications.
There was a horrendous freeway accident in Seattle yesterday because some jackass was fiddling with his Blackberry instead of paying attention to his driving.
i realize i am selling out the DIY ethic here, but......
those sync methods are sometimes unreliable. it seems to be oddly inconsistent even with the same devices. i have heard this from users i know to be above average with nrrdyness. some have a great time, some have lots of problems.
i have the Motorola E815 un-smartphone. i have had some luck with bluetooth sync of address book and ical. the problem is that when it doesn't work, the end result is often phone numbers going away or things being erased from my calendar. the kind of thing you not always notice at first. when i lose items it is generally when they are on the phone and not my Mac. my whole reason to sync the address book is so i have a backup in case i lose or upgrade the phone. randomly pruning some numbers kind of defeats that plan.
i appreciate all the work 3rd party developers are doing, but some stuff is risky. i hate typing this because i feel like it is the argument that M$ uses to bash *nix, but in this case there are so many devices that change so frequently that it generates sync issues (i guess?). i loved using BitPim on my old cell phone to extract pictures, upload graphics and ringtones and backup my phonebook. that never did anything destructive if it wasn't working. that is a darn great app.
Last night I saw a TV spot from Verizon with their new phone that looks a lot like an iPod in its white version... If it just had the little apple logo on it somewhere I could confuse it with an iCellPod.
You're correct. I make a BlueTooth connection to my (Cingular) Motorola RAZR and can drag and drop files between the devices. I downloaded an MP3 edit and take snippets of music to make ring tones (even via iTunes by burning the song(s) to CD, converting to MP3 and back to the phone -- Hello ST:TOS theme). And OS/X iSync recognize the phone and syncs my Calendar and Address Book (I set up a smart list in the address book to sync only those contacts I wanted on the phone).
Programmers in mirror are brighter than they appear
Yeah, any motorola bluetooth phone will let you do this. HOWEVER the functionality CAN be locked out. For GSM phones, like T-Mo, this is easy to hack back on. Go look at motomodders.net or on howardforums motorola for "triplets" hacking. I just sold a V555, which is basically a V600 without colored ring lights (and is also known as a V551 in other parts of the world.) Or I should say, I'm selling one. It's on fleabay now. The one on ebay is upgraded with the motomodders.net flash, I got a full additional day of standby time, no joke. Right now I have a RAZR V3i from Edge Wireless. Edge is somewhat unique in that they do not provider lock their phones. I paid $140 with a two year contract for an unlocked RAZR... not too shabby, not too amazing. I hacked this phone to support video clips longer than 1 minute (set to about 80 minutes I think) and unlocked a bunch of other stuff like the test mode and opcode functionality.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Everybody's talking about the features of the "iPhone" these days, but I haven't seen so much discussion about the product's name -- assuming Apple doesn't go for "iPhone". What could it be? Difficult to say ... I for one, do not think it's going to be prefixed with "i" as "iPhone" is too similar to "iPod". They wouldn't want consumers to confuse those products. Think it's gonna be more like the Keynote or Pages metaphors, referring to one of the smart phone's core features.
You are foolish to let this slip. Now thieves know you have a good phone and are wealthy enough to buy pricy calling plan.
I suggest you read Slashdot
I don't think she understood.
I just found the application that turns the phone into a "universal" remote control too. I thought it was out there because of the IRDA support, I just didn't go looking until now.
There is an oog/mp3 player for it on sourceforge too. But, on my phone it appears something about the symbian OS version breaks the application.
If unlocking the phone wasn't frowned upon a million different ways I'd say that's your best bet. Of course I wouldn't know about those things because I follow my providers rules and regs.
Another case where apple is taking what's already out there and working for the little guys and removing the geek factor.
http://www.maxineudall.com/2010/02/should-economists-be-sued-for-malpractice.html
dam your wife must really really be into it right now, she got a sister?
about there being two different Apple phones planned.
is buying into a rumour that's going even farther than the long-time rumour-mill favourite iPhone - which has yet to show up.
Lars T.
To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck
It got that monopoly by virtue of the fact that they control the DRM formats that can be played by their music play, which has an overwhelming share of the market.
What monopoly? This isn't like Windows, where you need to run Windows to run Windows applications. Every song I've bought from the iTunes music store is stored in DRM-free audio CDs (as Apple recommends!) and can be played on any music player in the world.
I'm not locked into iTunes, or the iPod. I don't even *like* the iPod. I gave my iPod to my daughter and I'm using iTunes because it just works better than the other music players I've used, and because Fairplay is "honor system" DRM... Apple doesn't try and stop me from feeding the output of iTunes into a recording program, or Garage Band, or anything else. I buy from the iTunes Music store because it just works. I also buy from eMusic.
I've had an MP3 playing phone, and after using it a while I decided that I've never had a sillier device. Take the two devices that I own that are hungriest for power, and run them off the same battery? I have enough trouble as it is with my phone being dead when I need it!
You really want an MP3 playing phone? Make me an offer on mine. But you don't get to return it when you discover what a bad idea it is.
Well if you look at what they did with iPods, they didn't release them for Windows initially. Instead they waited until the iPod had already become a success with Mac users, and then released both the iPod and iTunes for Windows.
I suspect if they had released a Windows iTunes+iPod at the very beginning, it might not have done as well as it did, released a year or so later, with a lot of traction. I expect they probably would have gotten a lot of flak for not having it work with WMP or whatever the dominant Windows music player software was in 2001. By holding off until later, they could not only sell the device, but sell a solution that was part of an entire application/product/service "stack": iTunes, the iPod, and the iTMS.
Apple's fan base within the Mac market provides them with a perfect test audience for their products, before they go on to release them to the rest of the world. I wouldn't be surprised if they released their phone as Mac-only initially, and then if it's a hit, made a PC version of the Mac's software so that PC users could get in on it. But that way they allow PC demand to build first, and then respond to it, rather than trying to create demand first.
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
The word you're looking for is than
A nice easy interface to do this with.
My Motorola Razr does that. The interface is proprietary, but it works well. The only moderately lame parts are the update and detection routines which seem designed to be teenager proof. Synchs or drag and drop from Outlook Contact and Calendar is dead easy. It also works with Outlook Express and Lotus Notes. You can also drag and drop photos, sounds, ringtones, etc. The software interface comes with a moderately OK tool to do some basic sound extraction and ringtone creation if you have nothing else.
I chose T-Mobile for a provider, because they promised to unlock the phone after 90 days, which they did. Lets me just drop a local prepaid chip in when I'm in Europe.
It connects to my laptop with either USB (5 pin miniB) or Bluetooth. Sorry, iPod cables don't work.
I don't mean to sound like a shill, and I don't work for either T-Mobile or Motorola, but I'm happier with this phone than any cell phone I've had yet.
Some mornings it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints to get out of bed.
Wow... so let me get this straight... this is a phone that requires OSX, which requires and Apple PC. Wow. I think that Apple has successfully earned the dubious title of "King of Lock-In". What's next? An iToilet that requires an Apple PC, OSX, an iPod, and iToilet Paper? Will it require iPlumbing to be installed in an iHouse? I think it's ridiculous, but obviously, there are gullible people out there buying this stuff...
IT would be neat if it used the same connection as the iPod
Let me get this straight... you want more vendor lock-in?
Sounds like you are describing the Verizon XV6700. It does all those things except for the iPod connection. It also has WiFi support. Installing a ring tone is as simple as opening the windows file manager and dragging and dropping the mp3/wav/midi from your PC to the phone.
Alot of cool stuff on this phone will run up the data bill and the providers will likely force apple to lock the WiFi. Also they will say that the apple phone is a smart phone and you have to pay the smart phone data rates.
iTunes songs may cost a lot to buy with the phone $0.99 + provider fee + data fee = alot
When they released the iPod there were already lots of MP3 players on the market, but that didn't seem to prevent them from making a success of it. There are lots of style-conscious people out there who will pay a premium for a cell phone with an Apple logo on it regardless of whether it has cutting edge technology or not.
Support Right To Repair Legislation.
Best thing in the world. As others have said, the RAZR has a standard mini-USB port, so connection is real easy. MotoPhoneTools lets you move pictures back and fourth, use any MP3 as a ring tone, synch your contacts, and also back up the contents of the phone. Another sweet feature is that the gui for the program is basically your phone. it comes up in the corner of the screen, and not only that, but all your normal phone features are acessible through your computer. You can make calls with a mic and speakers, your speakers ring when your getting a call, you can even type txt messages with your keyboard. And the best part is, you can charge your phone through this too! I dont even know where my charger is, i just plug my phone into my computer whenever im in front of it.
"Sic Semper Tyrannosaurus Rex."
I have a 9300. The software is awfully flaky. It has its good points, but I'd never buy one again.
Ben "You have your mind on computers, it seems."
Nokia, Sony Ericsson and Samsung. They've been doing this for years and years and there is nothing new Apple can deliver..
SyncML is supported by iTunes, but only over Bluetooth, which isn't supported by some phones. (Windows Mobile phones for example, they only support SyncML over ip)
Apple will follow their usual model:
One axis with consumer (think MacBook, iMac, iPod nano)
One axis with prosumer (think MacBook Pro, MacPro, iPod video)
In all squares good, better, best
(Think MacBook White 2x1.83, White 2x2, Black 2x2)
(Think iPod Shuffle, iPod Nano, iPod Video)
Same for the phones,
iPhone small and inexpensive
iPhone nano/macbook
iPhone pro
My guess is that the mid version iPhone (nano/MacBook) will be first to be released and at a premium price (like $400 with no contract). After 4 months the iPhone (pro) will be released at a slightly higher premium price (like $500 with no contract) and the mid version iPhone (nano/MacBook) will be reduced to $250 and "one more thing" the youth low end model iPhone (small and inexpensive) will be released like the Nokia 3-series for $149 with no contract.
- - -
http://edu.org
It really whips the llama's ass!
Same was true for the iPod - it originally required a Mac to be truly useful.
Furthermore, getting 5% of Mac owners to buy a rev. A iPhone would still be some damn decent sales numbers, and doubtless have some pullthrough to new Mac purchases.
Later, after the low-hanging fruit are picked, the cutting edge/early adopter/Mac faithful, then give some luvin' to the other OS's, but not so sweet as on a Mac.
As someone who already uses his built-in Mac synchronization to trivially manage his phone (TM/N6103), it's a lovely thing.
Sounds like a reasonable business plan to me.
I don't read ACs: If a post isn't worth so much as a nom de plume to its author then I wont bother either.
Most late-model Nokia phones do this already: the Nokia phone becomes a shell extension and you can access the phone memory/flash card/sim card as folders. Drag and drop works too. I am not saying it's perfect or bug free, but it's here, now, on pretty inexpensive phones (say the 6xxx series).
On my Verizon phone (Motorola e815), they limit you to only using sound files (mp3 and wav, I believe) that are stored in the phone's memory as ringtones. You can copy sound files to an SD card via a data cable and play them on the phone, but they disable the ability to use them as ringtones (because they are not on the internal memory). Also, they disable the ability to transfer these files from the SD card to the phone's memory, effectively locking out the ability to set them as your ringtone. If you want to use a custom ringtone, you need to purchase it from their "Get It Now" data plan within the phone for some foolish amount of money.
Also, Verizon has disabled the OBEX bluetooth profile on the phone so that you cannot copy to/from the phone via bluetooth. Thanks to some hard work by some intrepid hackers on www.howardforums.com, there are instructions available to enable most of the features that Verizon has disabled such as OBEX, file transfer from SD card to phone memory, dial up networking, etc. There are hacks for other phones and providers listed there as well*. Thanks to the folks on their forums I can transfer files to and from my phone via bluetooth, use my mp3 files as ringtones, use the DUN features of the phone, and sync the phone with Outlook via bluetooth (contacts, calendar, and e-mail).
*Be warned that these hacks will certainly void your warranty and may brickify your phone if done incorrectly.
TODO: Insert witty sig
Been using a PocketPC/PDA/Phone for 3 years.
What is nice is the lg screen for tapping out phone numbers, also can run programs, there are quite a few for PocketPC, like HanDBase a good little database. But PocketPC is Windows, so it crashes, sometimes at the most inopportune times like during a call.
If Apple made a PDA/Phone I'd buy it to try out.
You can basically do that with a Mac and a Motorola Razr (probably a lot of other phones as well), although using Bluetooth instead of USB.
Unfortunately the phones don't present themselves as Mass Storage devices over USB -- don't ask me why -- but they use the standard profiles on Bluetooth. That means you can shuffle photos/videos/sounds to and from the phone, using only the Mac's built-in software.
It's dead simple, and in fact quite a bit easier than doing the same thing on the PC (where you need to install some ridiculous 'Phone Tools' software in order to do anything; or at least if there's some other way, it's not obvious).
When it's nice is when you've taken some photos on your phone and just want to grab them off; as long as your phone is in the room somewhere, you can just open it up (there's a menu when you have BT enabled) and download the files. No hassle.
Of course, if your phone is from Verizon, don't expect this to work -- they break their phones on purpose so you can't.
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
Since you seem to have successfully done it, can you just give me an idea of what's involved in reflashing a phone like that? I've investigated it a little I have a TMobile Razr, now unlocked, that can only do 2-3 seconds (!) of video, while my girlfriend has a Euro version that can do more like 30s.; I've wanted for a while to fix mine.
And when you reflash/flex the phone, does it break things like wireless web and application access?
Just trying to get an idea of how much of a process this would be to do, and what the risk level is like.
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
There are a couple good programs that allow Windows Mobile devices to sync with Macs, updating iCal and whatnot. The only major issue is software packages, if they don't have a .cab installer you can copy to the device and install on it, you have to hook the WM device up to a Windows PC to run the .exe installer.
You could also blame your cellular provider for not reccomending a PalmOS device.
Maybe you haven't noticed, the iPod is actually more compatible with Windows then the Zune is, MS's own product.
So I wouldn't be too worried about Apple tying you in.
JWall: GUI client for IPTables
That kind of sounds like my Nokia E70, or the PDA-lookalike E61. Granted I still have to scroll around a bit when viewing web pages, but at least there is a Symbian version of Python, Apache and mod_python available so I can make it do pretty much anything. And it does have all the other features you listed straight out of the box.
Sounds like the (original) iPod...
Ha... bah. Pffff...
"If it's tightly coupled with Mac OS, it will flop"
The iPod started on the Mac only. It was a (modest) success before the Windows version was ever introduced.
The pursuit of absolute tolerance leads to the most rigorous and ludicrous intolerance. - REX MURPHY
Try Opera Mini/Mobile.
It has probably been mentioned in the 200 or so replies that followed your post. But the Nokia N91 does exactly that.
You can plug it in with a regular mini USB cable, mount it as a mass storage device, and drag and drop files. Everyone (including my grandma) knows who to copy stuff to a USB drive, making the interface easy, and future OS proof.
But plugging stuff in is so old school. I don't even do that for photos with mine. I just suck them off via bluetooth, no plugging required. Literally 2 clicks and photos, messages, and videos come straight off the thing (OK.. 3 clicks if you count both of the clicks in the doubleclick). I only plug it in for bulk transfers such as long videos, or to move several albums around.
It comes with 4 or 8 GB of storage, and can definitely play music. The 8GB model (which I don't have) can use bluetooth headphones, so no wires anywhere. I sync my calender to google calendar via gcalsync. But had it working with both ical, and outlook (ical required a little work as apple didn't support it at the time, I haven't looked again since I got gcalsync installed)
The only thing that bugs me is it dosn't have a SIP client to use the Wifi with. I'm waiting for someone to produce one for symbian 3rd edition. Skype would be nice too.
-Qyiet
I thought the largest provider was Cingular/ATT, wait it is, I used to work for them(years in the Bellsouth Quagmire) and they still use sims.
And although I do not like the company all that much, they tend to sell phones that are not so crippled as Verizon, or very easily fixable.
Puto
The Revolution Will Not Be Televised
not exactly. Cingular (#1 in the US by user base since the merger w/ AT&T, when the pulled ahead of Verizon) is GSM; Verizon (#2 by user base, #1 by network footprint, trying to take back the #1 spot on user base) and Sprint (#3 by user base since the merger w/ Nextel (i think before as well, but not certain), not sure about network footprint) are CDMA operators (the old Nextel network is iDen, which is just plain different). T-Mobile (#4 by user base, and now by a significant margin, after the consolidation; they're not generally considered a Tier-1 operator any more in the US) is GSM.
also, the use of SIM cards is not required for user choice, it just makes the mechanics easier. as you note, most US GSM operators lock their phones, and there's nothing to prevent CDMA operators from allowing arbitrary (compatible) phones onto their network (although you'd have to call them and give them the ID of the phone to get your number switched over).
finally, CDMA phones can use SIM-like modules (UIQ, i think), but i'm not aware of any phone on the market in the US that uses them (it's a new thing in the CDMA world, and i've only ever seen two CDMA phones with it globally).
i speak for myself and those who like what i say.
Yep, I posted a number of ring tones. I also thing it's more flexible than the specs you mention, as I've posted numerous random MP3s and they ALL work.
.mid (MIDI) files although THOSE I've had problem with. Possibly missing instruments or channels or something, I don't know much about MIDI files.
You can also use (some)
OK, granted; but Verizon and Sprint combined are most likely bigger than Cingular. But, even if that's not true, the point is that Verizon/Sprint is a significant market, too large for most to ignore. If a manufacturer doesn't have a CDMA version of their phone (many manufactuers do have both a GSM and a CDMA version), you're cutting out a significant percentage of your potential market.
If you reply, do so only to what I explicitly wrote. If I didn't write it, don't assume or infer it.
To heck with cables.....my RAZR links to my MacBook Pro C2D with BlueTooth. use the BlueTooth File Transfer programs and upload/download images, mp3s, midi files, video, etc with no wires at all. Just drag and drop from the desktop into the BT File Transfer window onto the folder you want. Only thing that'd make me even happier is if I could (a) get access to MORE of the phones innards that way (probably not safe for non-geek users though) and if it'd mount as a drive on the desktop instead of requiring a utility program.
'Prosumer' is not a new term. It refers to products that have a feature set that would make them marketable to both consumer and professional markets. The Canon GL2 DV camera is a good example, it is lacking a number of high end features many professionals would want, but can be integrated into a professional production when the budget requires it. It also makes a really sweet camera for a consumer that wants really high quality and doesn't mind the price tag.
Video, audio, and musical instrument technologies all have prosumer equipment, and even some manufacturers that make almost all prosumer equipment.
Shawn's Tech Articles
Lock in? You mean the same connector that's available in THOUSANDS of third-party iPod accessories. Hundreds of automobiles? Even some AIRLINERS soon?
or if he didn't mean the end that hooks to the iPod....then he means USB 2 or Firewire 400. Both industry standard.
Heck, the original ipod had a standard firewire connection, which they never should have gotten away from, IMHO, but at least Apple standardized on ONE connector starting with the 2nd Gen units I think, and have stuck with it from generations 2 thru current (6) unlike Palm who seems to change their connector every major rev or two. I think they're on the third or forth "universal" cable format now... Not to mention all the third-party PalmOS vendors doing their own damn thing too....
Go ahead Apple. Give me one more reason to subscribe to .mac which I will translate to one less reason to buy your software/hardware.
The E61/62 looks great on paper but the browser blows.
The early mp3 player market didn't provide a good alternative for Mac Users thus necessitating Apple to design the iPod. Similarly, the smartphone market ignores the Mac user (oddly, we're not a good group to ignore since we like paying high margin premiums). Thus, Apple needs to yet again do one for us. They will probably do a good job considering they would bring integration with Mac OSX and the iApps, the iPod click wheel, and a good design (the good at that). I like my Razr with its sleek design. But, its click wheel is slow at cycling through menus and it doesn't play mp3 ( at least this early model). Though it syncs with iCal, it doesn't do it throughly enough where I can set the phone alarms for events leaving me to do it manually. In the end, we want a well design device that can be our cell phone, our iPod, and our PDA and be fully compatible with our computers. I am afraid Apple is the only company that can design it.
You don't have to be smart to use a Mac, you just have to be smart enough to buy one
If they launch this, Apple ought to buy BluePhoneElite and bundle it in the operating system. Seriously, it's awesome with isync and my Sony Ericsson Walkman phone. (Oddly enough, I find the W810i a great phone for all the reasons except for that which it's been most touted: namely, mp3 playback. Thanks, I've got an ipod for that.)
concrete5: a cms made for marketing, but strong enough for geeks.
Its not funny. As a Mac user, I don't expect my phone to sync up with my address book or have iChat integration. This is a bad joke. It would be great if it were true though. :-)
...Is can we use boot camp on the device to boot Windows Mobile 5? :)
Bell does the same thing here in Canada; you're stuck having to buy a fully featured (smart) phone even if all you want is the ability to copy files to and fro.
In my case, all I wanted was the ability to sync my contacts wireless with my mac, and can't, using the Sanyo Katana.
with availiability through the resellers, because I will grab one the second it's availiable if it is.
if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
It's interesting that Verizon guts the vendor's UI and uses their own interface. No matter whether it's a Samsung or LG phone the Verizon interface is identical.... makes a lot of sense from a support point... lower training costs....
AppleInsider also keeps saying that Apple is working on a Tablet Mac, which presumably is a TabletPC-esque convertible Macbook which uses Ink Services and handwriting recognition.
I work as a software engineer at Wacom Technologies. If Apple were going to make such a device, they would be using our hardware, and likely some of our software. They have not, so there is likely no such project. AppleInsider is posting items from their wishlist.
-- Hamster
Despite the grandparent's moderation as a troll, I think he has a point. When did market success validate the quality and design of a product? Oh yeah, when it's Apple and you're reading Slashdot. Even though Apple is successful, I still know quite a few people, usually somewhat technically astute, that still flinch at the thought of buying an iPod because of it's lock-in... which is why there is still a market for other players such as Archos, etc. Oh, but wait, this is Slashdot, market share is important when it comes to rating a product.
There is a fine line between being a cultivated citizen and being someone else's crop. - A. J. Patrick Liszkie
Please... .Mac... Maybe first make .Mac less retarded and then try to build serious services around it.
.Mac's only advantage is that is tied deeply into OSX. And for other functionalities it is just bad.
What I mean by retarded? Here is what:
My Sony Ericsson T610 did all of that 4 years ago except the music as anything but midi, and I did it from my Mac no less. I also had the ability to control apps like VLC on my Mac (or a windows PC for that matter) via bluetooth, syncing of contacts and calendar items, and the ability to send SMS right from within the address book via the phone's bluetooth. The Motorolla RAZR can't do half of that. Hyped up POS...
Does anyone know if that phone would likely use a PowerPC? If that's the case, it's interesting to me that they haven't really left that world yet, and may never. It's lucky for them they had a 80x86 port of Mac OS X available for the desktop. It may be just as lucky that they have a PowerPC port available for the cellular phone. That is, if ``luck'' is really the word for all that.
Heh, how ironic... integration with iTunes is exactly why I do own an iPod! If not for that I probably would have gotten an iRiver or something.
By the way, I'm sorry to see you got modded "troll" -- your post isn't one.
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
When Apple and Motorolla partened to make that ROKR device I was wondering if it was a cheap attempt at seeing if people were interested. A Mac OS X based smartphone would be something very cool, but I doubt we will see much for a while.
Look at the current smartphone market, I owned a Nokia 7650. It was a great advance on other phones of the time, but had limited memory, tended to crash, weighed twice as much and that stick hurt your thumb after a while. It took Nokia a few years to get to the Nokia 7610 stage and to be honest I think the symbian OS system has reached its current peak, its a good offering one that has managed to get everyone who's owned a n70 and n80 to want that in their next phone.
Microsoft's offering of PDA's and PPC's is much more mature, A friend of mine had the IPAQ a few years ago and I thought Windows Mobile 2002 was kinda lame, I bought a Orange SPV m500 and have to say really enjoyed using it, my chief complaints were the battery life, lack of wifi and the low quality camera. A few days ago and 18months since my SPV m500 I got my hands on a XDA Mini S. Everything I disliked in the M500 has been fixed, my only wish in a phone would be making it lighter and a higher quality camera (say 2 or 3 megapixels.)
The current Smartphone and PPC offerings have taken a good three to four years to get to that stage, I know apple can make some good products but I don't expect much, considering the relative flop of the ROKR and the news source I'm more inclined to think they haven't spent the money and this is a just a wish of mac lovers.
You mean like this ? Why not just go out and buy one ?
I have Cingular, and I have a RAZR with USB and Bluetooth. I can transfer audio, pictures and video to and from my Mac using Bluetooth (but I can't connect via USB -- presumably that only works in Windows or something). However, what I can't do is access the rest of the phone's filesystem. I can't mess with the OS, and I can't load things like Java games on it. Cingular might be one of the better US service providers, but it's still not good enough.
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
The masses, even I, do not really want to spend a long time trying to get simple things to work the way they should. That is why I have a Mac. Any phone is going to have to sync with my Mac, and with my .Mac account. Having to buy the phone, and then the software to run the phone, is the same scam that Motorola is pulling on PC users.
"She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
It seems like you do not use mobile phones for what they are primarily meant for...making calls. I think the most important features that a mobile phone should be able to do / have are:
1. Long battery life
2. A huge memory capacity to enable me to save as many contacts and text messages as I want
3. Allow for more than 3 telephone numbers per contact (better 6 numbers)
4. Easy interface for text messaging
5. Ability to easily transfer contacts between my mobile phone and a computer. (I currently use bluetooth)
The rest - photos, music, radio etc is extra and not really important as a funstion for a phone.
What makes me flinch is the thought that people still buy into the myth that iPod = lock in. These people shouldn't even be bothering with computers. Your only locked into iTunes as much as you want to be (if you want to buy songs via any online store your locked in period). There are plenty of apps on every OS to keep you off of Apple software otherwise.
Me? I handle everything through iTunes. Theres absolutely no reason not to. I run Windows & Mac with a little Linux. I decide to get a different player one day? I just move everything out of iTunes. It's not fsking brain-surgery.
I'll pay whatever they want for the deluxe version with .Mac lovin'.
"I'm not a cool person in real life, but I play one on the Internet". Galley
T-Mobile!
I use T-Mobile because they put absolutely no lock on their phones. I have a Motorola V360 from them. I can sync my phone with my address book upload and download MP3s as ring tones. Transfer pictures back and forth between my Mac and my phone, and all of this through BlueTooth.