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Do You Care About Race in Games?
There were several pieces up this past weekend, and a resulting lively dialogue, about the role that race plays in videogames. Game|Life talks very cogently on the subject, which got kick-started by a post on the microscopiq site highlighting important black game characters. The article asks "Jade Is Black?", highlighting the role that racial ambiguity can have in making a player empathize with a title's protagonist. Writes Kohler: "Video games put the control of the main character into the player's hands. They ask us to become the character. It's easier for anybody to identify with Jade because Jade can stand in for anything. Ellis wants more black characters in video games, and Jade, if we go by the layout of his article, is his number-one favorite. It is quite possible that he felt a stronger connection with Jade than with other game characters who are definitely black. What does that say about the power of racial ambiguity? " So, do you care about race in videogames? If so, how so?
Different races get different stat bonuses! When I want to make a good warrior, I go with a Dwarf. When it's a mage I need, I go for some sort of Elf. Jeez, was this question really necessary? :)
IAALS.
That pretty much sums up this article. We play the character we're given. We kill the characters we're expected to kill. If it's fun, the game is "good". If it's not fun, the game is "bad".
a character from Johnny Quest have to do with gaming? Are they making a game based on the series? Which series, the old or the new? Although Race Bannon was a cool character...
are silicon-based.
The latest Slashdot meme.
I don't care about race in real life, so why should I care about it in-game?
Having said that, when one thinks about different races in a game having different stats, I would venture to guess that the large number of these references to "race" are actually references to "species"; to use a popular example, a Tauren is different from a Troll in much different ways than a [African(-American)|Chinese|Japanese|Native-Americ an] is different from a Caucasian.
Aikon-
I kill Nightelves in WOW all the time. I would never dream of killing an orc.
"You had this look that of an angel, it was such a bad disguise" --Dishwalla
This reminds of me of Kratos, from God of War. I know that he's "spartan", and all, but from the way they designed the character, both in appearance and voice, I always thought he seemed more like a black guy than a white guy. And since his skin was covered in ash to make him perma-pale, it made it even harder to be sure, for lots of the game. At least, in my opinion. Maybe others dont agree.
I thought it was a nice touch, though, all-in-all. I mean, there's a bit of "badassness" to certain black character traits, both physically and in attitude, and I think Kratos's personality is a lot stronger than it would have been if they hadnt borrowed those traits. But I have to admit, if Kratos had been modeled after Ice-T or something, I probably wouldnt enjoy the game nearly as much.
Personally, I get tired of the whole racism debate. Ive always felt this way about japanese games. I dont like it when the characters are DECIDELY Japanese. I liked Cloud (from FFVII) a lot more back when it was unclear what he was rather than now, when he has been remade into a more clearly japanese appearance. Really, unless race is a specific issue in a game's plot, I think it should be left out as much as possible, so Im all for the racial ambiguity thing.
If race is purely cosmetic, then no. If it changes the character's abilities, then yes.
And either way, everybody loves to kill kobolds.
Why would it matter unless your some racist punk that takes pride in playing a character that matches your skin tone.
http://www.theregister.com/2007/01/30/lily_white_a nd_not_loving_it/
Personally I think sex is more of a factor in character identification. I know a lot (probably most) don't really care, but when I play games, especially the more immersive 3rd person games, it sometimes impacts my enjoyment of the game that I can't identify more with the character.
What is the point of driving a race/stock/rally car if there is no race to win! Unless the point is to steal the cars then its more of a chase senario.
P226
I find in GoW there's occasional shit talking that sometimes degrades to racial remarks, either about the character model picked or picking on a players speech pattern. For the most part it is just stupid cunts to be ignored anyways, but it does show that race can have rather direct and immediate impact, particularly in multiplayer games.
So far the greatest way I've found to diffuse any tensions -- at least in Gears of War -- is to bring up the obvious issue at hand: dont be afraid of or pick on another race, if you're going to be phobic, be phobic of another god damn species. When someone starts saying "oh look a gook," to the guy that just chose the asian character, "oh look, a mother fucking alien" kinda adds perspective.
I'd agree that Barret of FF7 is a poorly implemented stereotype, but FF8 has one of the best black characters in any game with Kiros. Although he's only playable in the Laguna flashback scenes, he's smart and capable, and most importantly does not "play the race card" or in any way call attention to his race. His scenes were some of the best parts of the game.
Not wanting to sound prejudice, but I used to choose a black character in HL2 deathmatch because he's harder to spot in the darker areas.
That's sort of a stupid question, isn't it? Of course it has to be "black." Because none of the other minorities have ever mattered since 1960, right? Let's think about this: Her name is Jade. She picks the pen name "Shauni." She has almond shaped eyes and black spiky hair. Jade is Asian, you idiots.
Compare modern games, especially MMORPGS and the like. Every character can choose their own looks within set parameters. I've yet to see too many 'black' characters in races that have those skintone options in WoW (Humans, Dwarves, and to a lesser extent Blood Elves) created by the users themselves. Perhaps part of the reasoning for having less black main characters are that the players themselves choose not to play those characters; they have less appeal.
Clinton made me a Republican. Bush made me a Libertarian. Trump is making me question reality.
Let's see if I can recall. Nazis and Red USSR communists are always evil. Vietam asians are generally bad. Japan WWII is bad, but afterward is good. China WWI & WWII is good and after WWII is neutral. France is never bad per se, but seeing as we were settled from England; well of course France or "the French" will always be slanted negatively. England is typically the good ole mother country except any games based from the Civil War backwards. Whenever we fight the English, we fight against evil unjust monarchs. Ever since the Desert Storm and/or Desert Shield, any nameless Middle East dictator has been a safe villian for the US or good military to invade and beat up. Now a days, its also Islam or unnamed "bad" muslims for the sake of our religious terror war. Oh, let's not forget any aliens. All aliens are always evil and must be destoried before they take over. Einstein is always the good German Allied Scientist. You can always tell who the good guys are based solely on which side Einstein is on.
The author is missing several key black characters I remember along the way, some from the 1980's. MIKE TYSON from Mike Tyson's Punch-Out. The black player from Smash TV. (I don't remember ever fighting over who got to play who.) MICHAEL JORDAN from Jordan vs. Bird. (Believe me, no one wasn't buying this game to play as Bird.) JAX from Mortal Kombat.
I usually pick a black character - they're harder to see in the shadows!
If you don't have a Gay Nigger in the game, then I will send my only-begotten Son to follow you around and remind that you are A RACIST.. Damn foo's don't know a Nigger gets a +4 Cocklength Bonus anyways.
If you wanna get technical, Jade is an alien. Race doesn't exactly apply.
I liked Cloud (from FFVII) a lot more back when it was unclear what he was
You mean when you could conceivably imagine that he was, in fact, a man?
rather than now, when he has been remade into a more clearly japanese appearance.
Oh.
Help protect civil rights from abuse by the TSA - visit TSA News Blog.
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...in games as I do IRL. It means jack shit to me. I don't care where you are from, what color you are, what your native langauge is, or what slang you use.
I care if you are respectful.
Living With a Nerd
For the most part, gamers think of their games as completely hermetic fantasy worlds that don't interact with reality. Of course, in hindsight we see that there are many real world influences on the content of our games - just like when we look back at the Science Fiction of the 1950s and 1960s. So for the most part, people don't see race in games because they're usually treated the same way we treat race in the real world. In 20 years, when we have different opinions and habits with regard to race, a racial message will probably be far more evident.
On the other hand, when we see a game that approaches race differently from us - for example, the Left Behind game that gives evil/"unsaved" characters Arabic names - we see a clear message. So most people here will claim that, while some games certainly have racial elements, their games don't.
A strain of paranoid prevention can be worse than the disease, whate'er the intention.
I like fightin games and shootin games and wrestlein games too!
I quit!
The Wired article was interesting in that it talked about race's role in video games, but will there ever be a successful video that has at least a sub-plot dealing with racism? Will the struggle of a character ever be to overcome apartheid? I'm not talking about the metaphorical equivalent where some mermaids fight back against the evil urchins, I'm talking about a real struggle.
I'm in the process writing a game script based off some of the ideas in the book The Power of One. For those unaware, the book takes place during and after World War II in South Africa where there was a lot of racism between the English, Germans, and black Africans (there was also a sequel that dealt very directly with the apartheid). The book deals a lot of racism and discrimination and provided me with some ideas of writing a game. But how well does this translate into a video game? There are a lot of movies and books that deal with this subject, but will it translate well into video games? Is there a problem with the medium, the audience, or has it just not been attempted yet properly?
Reviewing just the first hour of video games.
Please include a warning next time.
I'll start with my opinion on one game, I don't like CJ from San Andreas, Not because he's black, not because he's from LA, but because he's a stupid idiot who doesn't seem to realize how moronic his friend Ryder is. "We'll rob the goverment" The answer to that is "Stop smoking that shit because you are dumber than the retard down the street". Yet in SA you just go along with his plan.
I don't care if your character is black, white, or asian. I personally like "white" characters if I had to choose, but if I want a strong tough battle hardened character, I'll probably take a black guy. (Cole train with out the voice). If I want a cool ninja that's definatly an asian character. If I want a mafioso it's going to have to be white (And italian). But all of these choices are based off ROLE not race.
Do I not like black characters? Well yeah in the end, because most of the time they are so stereotypically black that it's a waste of a good character. But I like Cole Train, I like a lot of the characters outside of the gang in San Andreas (the CRASH unit was hilarious). Do I like asian characters? Well probably but again it's because they are portrayed as ninjas, samurais, and other cool stuff I like.
So the answer to the question is race doesn't matter as long as the developers don't do the stereotypical things with race. It's the same as females in games. As long as you don't make every female like Yuna (FFX she was weak, and then in FFX2 all three females were ditzy airheads) I don't mind playing as one. Lara Croft could have sold as well with out the chest because she was a tough as nails archeologist, and except for Indiana Jones we didn't have many of those.
The target market of the PS3 and Wii is middle and upper class Americans, who for the most part are of German descent.
Any attempts at "affirmative action" in game character casting is misguided.
However, I can see the appeal of angry womanizing black men to American kids is pretty strong, so more black male characters might be more successful, as so many rich white kids want to be black so that girls will want them.
More black characters in games might be more successful, as pretending to be an "oppressed", outraged and angry young black man seems to be what the kids want to do these days.
I do not care about race in games, but I think the target youth market does. White is uncool, black is by definition, cool.
No.
But I always thought Jade was green?
It is easier to associate with a character if they come from a similar background as yourself, but a good role-player can pick a character that is their polar opposite and play them well.
I'm sure someone, somewhere complained to Bioware that Jade Empire didn't offer enough racial diversity. Lets have a group chuckle at their expense...
"People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything."
I don't particularly care about what race my character in a game is. Though I can see why people could become outraged over "all the dark-skinned races in my fantasy game are evil".
No, I do not.
I guess Jade is a black name, because Jade in MK3 was black too (i think) and looked kinda like her.
You got modded down probably because you used the dreaded "n" word, but I think your comment is fairly insightful. It's not about what races are portrayed in a game, but in HOW each race is portrayed.
I think that the ambiguity in "Jade" reflects a change in racial attitudes and also a change in marketing. Many companies are tapping into multiracial and biracial characters because they often appeal to a larger audience.
Whenever somebody choses a character in a video game and plays that character, I agrue, in some level that they are identifying with that character. I mean you control that character's actions, you die when that character dies etc. so there is at least a little bit of your time and attention and perhaps even emotion invested into that character. Each of these people thought that Jade was a different race/ethnicity because in their mind, their hero character is represented by somebody they are more able to identify with "an arab", "of Eurasian descent", "black", etc. This is positive. Wouldn't you rather chose who your hero's are instead of accepting what somebody tells you who your hero is?
As a side, I think that there are more racially ambiguous and multiracial characters in sci fi and fantasy because the idea that "mixed" is the future. I think that this can be a bit of a double-edged sword. While think its good to have positive media images of mixed-race people, i think that sci fi can leverages stereotypes create characters.
Example #1:
George is stronger than normal humans, but savage and primal because he is half and half human.
This example is common, and there's not too much wrong with it. But how many people feel that there is a large leap between this first example and this next one:
Example #2:
Take something like the Jade character above. Jade does math better than the average character because she's asian and runs faster because she's black. This ties into to stereotypes. 1. Asian people do math well. 2. Black people run fast.
Hey- for the second example these are both positive stereotypes, why do I bring it up? Positive stereotypes can be just as negative stereotypes. This description degrades the character's performance to a characteristic of race. Maybe the jade character does math well because she has a PhD and runs fast because she ran track and field. This form of stereotyping for multiracial characters is often called "Hybrid Vigor" or "best of both worlds". The flip side of it is "Hybrid Degeneracy" or "worst of both worlds". In the end, video game characters, just like people, and should be judged and evaluated as individuals- not races.
I like having diversity in video games. I like having more races without having all the stereotypes. I've worked with youth a lot, a very diverse group, and they pretty much all play video games. It'd be cool to me if they could all relate to a great character at some point in their gaming.
:)
At the same time, I don't want some overly-politically correct game that makes it's roster while celebrating Chrismahanukwanzikah. I just like to see a cast of characters that throws in a bunch of variety to keep things interesting, if it's appropriate. If the game is set in feudal Japan, cast accordingly. If the game is set in a place like New York City or Philly, let's see some variety.
And if the game is incredibly violent or inappropriate, I don't really care cause the youth shouldn't be playing that anyway IMO
1 (short ton / firkin) = 89.1432354 slugs / keg
In the Metal Gear games, Snake is Anglo-Japanese. I don't remember exactly where I saw it, but I've heard it stated that it was an attempt to give the player an avatar that appealed to audiences in Japan, North America, and Europe. Not that I think it mattered, ultimately. The failure of this type of policy was when they designed Raiden (MGS2's main character) to have broader appeal (adding women to the equation by making him bishounen). This alienated some of the hardcore fans of the series. Sometimes I think overthinking the issue of the player character's race can lead more problems than making the character a non-descript *default* race (e.g. it's not specified or referred to at all).
I'm going to be completely politically incorrect now and say that I think different races, or slight variations of races, all have their places in games, depending on what game it is, and the environment in the game.
In GTA San Andreas, and the newer Saints Row - the character should be black. Face it; its gangstah-style, white people only look silly trying to do the whole gangster-thing.
Lord of the rings games - white, no matter if you are a human, dwarf or elven. Thats the only real race that fits in the environment. Possible exception if you play orch, then you'd be green-blackish.
GTA Vice City - white _and_ Italian. No other white and nationality could fit better in this game.
Godzilla games - asian.
Then there are games with a more general setting, where the character mostly will be white, because the largest audience is probably white and its easier for us to identify with a character of the same race as ourelves.
Sam has one liberty, which he sacrifices for one security. Can you tell me what Sam has now?
... as long as my char has nice tits and a super-model body. ... ' think it was YSL) :-) . ...mmmmh... Now look what you've done ... guess I'm gonna go online tonight and tweak the costume/armour of my sweet Hunter Gal a little more. ... Oh yea Baby, I'm coming ... ... wo needs a social liiife ... I'm going to log in ... hop' on the griiii ii iiid ... <<
And that doesn't even make me a sexist.
Being a guy-that-almost-studied-fashion-design a famous phrase comes to mind: "We all dress the women we'd like to have - or, more precisely, would like to be." (from a male Designer
You could very well easyly apply that to WoW:
We all play the hot Night-Elf chick we'd like to have - or, more precisely, like to be in RL.
In fact, coming to think about it, I'm playing my male Dwarf Priest only because he contrasts oh-so individually with all the Titty-Wonders running around on Khaz'Goroth
*starts singing*
>> World of Warcraft is a feeeeeeling
( http://youtube.com/watch?v=SpC3lZdk2HM )
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
This whole argument recently got started with Guild Wars. Nightfall, the third expansion, was set in an area of the game world that more or less corrsponded to Africa/Egypt/the Middle East, and had the corresponding accents and skin tones. The character generator for the game tends towards sin tones that fit into that area of the game world.
Now, on launch, the immediate thing that people started whinging about was that the vast majority of player characters weren't black. Cue people putting threads on boards accusing players of being racist, cue other people telling them to shut up, cue allsorts of childish arguments. People were trying to explain that the area of the world in the game would have run the gamut of skin tones, everyone was getting defensive, and the whole thing was descending into an almost farcical "You're all racist because you won't make a black character" "No I'm not, you're the one who's insisting that I do so." and backwards and forwards from there.
Interestingly, I can't remember the same debate happening when Factions (set in ArenaNet's Pesudo-Orient Analogue) came out. maybe it did and I didn't spot it.
Of course, these are games where you select a skin colour for your player-avatar, unlike the one in the OP. However, I'm with Shadowrun on racism in games. "Why worry about the tanned guy on the subway, when that thing over there has hands the size of your head."
"How fine you look when dressed in rage."
That's wraslin, you uncultured slob.
It's a undisputed fact that Black people are over respresented in media. Black people make up 12.12% of the US populace according to the last census. They make up 20% of all media characters/talking heads in media according to some studies. This occurs because Asians of all sorts are under represented (1% of charcters 5% of the pop). Hispanics as well but not as severely. I do imagine that the quality of this over representation is poor.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
Because most of us belong to the dominating race of our societies. Race mostly tend to be an (conscious) issue when you belong to another race than the dominating one.
Around here the preferred phrase seems to be 'you insensitive clod', but I think we get your meaning.
...when you're writing a game...tweak the difficulty of "Easy" to something [your mother] can cope with. -- onion2k
I always like to play as a Redguard in TES III: Morrowind (they're the easiest character to get going with, as their special ability is ridiculously powerful). Looks pretty black to me.
That aside, I think it's almost funny that the article is so focused on black presence in games...I've never thought about it much, but I have always found it kinda weird that whites are so dominant even though most of my favorite games are from Japan. Still, as a Caucasian myself, I'm happy with it. As other people have said, it's far easier to 'get into' a character if they look and talk like you.
Unpleasantries.
It was strange that everyone whines about lacking black people in games, when those are the same people who complained Derek Smart developed and published his own video games against all odds.
I care very much. All that time spent tweaking setups in GTR2/rFactor/F1 Challenge in test sessions would be meaningless (and almost, but not quite, as meaningless as this post) if I didn't get to actually race!
WWJD.... for a Klondike bar?
I don't see any point to having different races if they're all going to act the same way. Unless the character is stereotyped in a way that I feel is insulting (which happens more often with whites than anything else), I don't have a problem with it.
And the people who complain about parallels between fantasy races and real-world cultures (oh noes, the trolls have Jamaican accents!) can sod off. You have to get your material from somewhere.
Seriously, though. Maybe the author's change had to do something with changing to a a character type that no longer wonders around showing off her nipples through netting. That probably makes a difference in the likelihood of people coming up to chat with a stranger.
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
...I just want to play. I could care less what race the characters are as long as I get to play.
Biologically, speciation is a tough subject that's more convoluted than that. For instance, sometimes they can interbreed, but won't. Sometimes the SAME species won't interbreed - and sometimes they won't interbreed with individuals born too far away from them, but without any kind of clear boundary, just a spectrum where eventually they are "too" different - even though they're the same species. In plenty of examples, what's a species is contested. Considering the breeding issues and lack of popular hybrids, your traditional fantasy "races" are probably not the same species.
But that is SO not the point. The question is why do we call them races. Which I'd say we do in new games because we did in older games, because D&D did, because Science Fiction writers did, because Tolkien did - because stories have for time immemorial, before genetics existed. Personally, I believe the reason for that is that as far back as we have histories, travelers found different people, and they were all humans or at LEAST very close to it. (I'll add that in for arguments about co-existing Neanderthals and hobbits.) And that's where the definition of race comes from - another people with another society, but recognizeable as people.
And while fantasys certainly contain exaggerations... if I stood next to Andre the Giant (when he was alive) he'd certainly seem like a giant, as would basically any football player. A race of people with an average height that was less than a foot taller or shorter than my personal height would certainly make a difference - this joke has been played in every American-visits-Japan story I've heard. Something as simple as a helmet with a bull's horns could account for a minotaur in low light. etc. Except the ears, Elves are just intelligent, agile, long lived people. The vast majority of fantasy and science fiction races don't push the limits of what an intelligent nonhuman species might be - they are all people with certain things exaggerated and certain things suppressed - exaggerated in the way everything else is in fantasy.
I can't believe I'm posting in this thread.
Looking for freelance Actionscript (Flash/Flex) or ColdFusion work and/or freelance developers. Email me, put Slashdot
Is this better?
By the way, thanks for drawing my eyes to it. Oh, and for confirming it. I might've just brushed it off as some random Slashdotter messing with people, but no, you've handled that one.
Good job!
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
As an Asian American myself, I would at least like fewer racial stereotypes in games. How many times in games is Asian guy relegated to the "smart side-kick who's good at math and gadgets" or the "obligatory I-know-martial-arts" guy? Or an Asian woman is the "sexy, sleek I-know-martial-arts" girl? Well, I guess you could carry over those same stereotypes into all forms of media (TV and movies as well).
-- jchenx
It seemed silly at first, but it fit in pretty well. For those who don't know, Saint's Row actually has you dealing with gangs of various different ethnicities. There's your stereotypical black, hispanic, and asian gangs. So actually, it was fairly racial agnostic I'd say (or rather, made fun of all races equally?). There's also a hilarious in-game radio station that really poked fun at right-wing religious conservatives (think the Colbert Report from Comedy Central).
-- jchenx
I was a little perturbed when GTA: San Andreas brought out a black protagonist. Not because I'm racist or anything, but because the game had previously centered around white Mafiosos. A black character brought all sorts of racial stereotypes with him, which had to be incorporated in the game. I was afraid the game would involve more street-gang type crime, instead of the grandiose organized crime that you saw in the previous games. In the end, they did a good job of fusing the two together though.
you'll always end up with a whit person, a black person, an asian, and a gimped whitey in a wheelchair.
I was pretty offended by the implications of the race of the main character in GTA:SA. Not because he was the first black GTA character, but because he was also the first one that could SWIM!!! WTF kinda sense does that make? Was he also the first that could ice skate?
Its a minor point but it has always bugged me (right from when I bought the first white-boxed set of D&D back in 1978), that gaming culture uses the term "race" when it means "species", and this has carried over to computer/console/online games naturally enough.
When I play City of Heroes or City of Villains, and the main differentiation in Race is skin color, I tend to pick what suits the costume. I have several White characters, at least 1 Asian character, and a couple of Black characters. No Hispanic or Native Characters (although I had one at one point) simply because I haven't had a character concept.
When it comes to Fantasy games - where we are really talking different Species not Races, well I tend to pick the toughest looking male characters and the most attractive looking female characters (as I am male). In DAOC, I played mostly Trolls, Kobolds, Dwarves and Norsemen because they all looked tough to me (Kobolds less so mind you). In my brief stint in WOW (before I wrote it off as tripe), I played only on the Horde side, mostly Orcs. In EQ I played one of those lizardmen.
I play all "races" in game more or less depending on my character concept (in games that really allow that, and I can't conceive of someone choosing not to play a particular species just because it is similar to a RL racial choice. The only exception I make is I never choose to play the "cutesy" species option that many games feature (ie Lurikeen in DAOC, Gnome in WOW etc) mostly because I detest the other people who seem to glom onto "cutesy" and then run around trying to be ultracute. It gets tiring and boring.
Now, what I am very tired of, is the stereotyping you see in games, based on Racial Stereotypes. Blacks and Hispanics are criminals, or at least very tough and not as bright etc. Asians are smart, all know martial arts, and are good at math (plus they speak with a heavy accent). Whites are nerdy, boring, or very macho but the most competent overall etc. Surely we can dispense with this 1950's mode of thinking. Sure, there are people who fit those stereotypes, but they are not the norm and portraying them that way only perpetuates those stereotypes. I am always happy when I see someone include a character that violates those stereotypes deliberately. Its not a major thing but its time to get over that crap I think.
"The first time I got drunk, I got married. The second time I bought a chimpanzee, after that I stayed sober" Arian Seid
'Coz nobody wants to see the dwarf get the girl in the end!
...nobody knows you're a troll.
Rainbow Six: Vegas would be nothing to me if I couldnt play co-op as the black guy. Only the black guy can hold a machine gun in one hand, and a glock in the other, while hiding behind a blackjack table and "capping asses".
The game would be 15% less fun if I had to use the aforementioned arsenal as a white dude.
Ditto GTA: San Andreas. If you weren't playing CJ, you'd be stuck with some lame Eminem-like wigga. That would just plain suck.
3laws: No freebies, no backsies, GTFO.
Do it because it's what FITS. I hate it when developers just throw in some black dude or something just to make minority players happy. But by saying this, I am insinuating that a 'generic' character is therefore white. This is somewhat true. A generic character should fit in with the surroundings, and so if the game cast is primarily white, he should be white. If it's primarily black, then it's more fitting for a generic character to be black. But since games aren't about the ordinary if you're going to grab from outside the norm, you might as well go all out. Barrett is probably one of the most memorable black characters because he's so extreme. Perhaps I'm hitting a stereotypical vein here, but Jade is perhaps the perfect example of mass culture views. Jade seems 'off' because he's not what we typically expect a black person to be. This isn't necessarily wrong, but if a developer puts a black character in a game just to be diverse, then that's missing the mark. Give him some personality.
No you fool, this is from the not-talking-about-fast-moving-cars dept.
;)
I bet you feel really stupid now.
I love race in games. My favorite right now is Mario Kart DS.
---GEC
I'm but the humble pupil, seeking to snatch the scratchbuilt pebble from the master's fully articulated hand
from da ali jade show...
also we need more sexytime with jade, very nice!
For a minute there, I thought you were talking about God of War when you said "GoW" and I was trying to remember where in God of War there were any racial slurs.
For games where different races represent different starting properties: I'd care only because of those properties.
For games where different races exist with the purpose of having a more personal experience by means of an avatar: hell yes and not just race either. Kind of pointless to have a customised avatar if you can't even customise these basic differences in appearance.
For any other game: not at all. I'm no hedgehog, Japanese prince(ss) or Italian plumber either, but that that never stopped me from playing any of those games.
Applies for nationalities as well, playing some loony state in C&C Red Alert squirmish was more fun than being US/Russia *once* again, while when properties don't matter I'd surely pick a nation I actually like.
But stick with your 20th century thought if you must - the rest of us have better things to do.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
Remember it's not the color of the arm, it's the caliber (or energy output) of the weapon that matters.
[Insert pithy quote here]
Uh, no ...
Not much of a hero. Carl Johnson (CJ) from GTA San Andreas. Honorary mention goes to Barrett from FF7. Lot of japanese-like characters in the gmaes I play (RPG's mostly), but they aren't really from japan.
-- Having a Creationist Museum is like having an Atheist place of worship
Most of the people that I meet are quite average. Most of the people portrayed in the media (including games) are either extreme good, or extreme bad.
:)
Black guy shows up in a movie. He's either A: Bad-assed gun-wielding trash-talking dude with a police record or B: Super clean-cut, well-spoken gentleman with an IQ of 190 who came from a rough neighborhood but managed to graduate from an Ivy League college at the age of 10.
This works for ANY minority for some reason. Personally I'd like to see a couple of drop-dead boring gay people on television.
Why would I care about it in a game?
... to which the answer is no. "Caring about race" is racism, no matter which way you spin it - whether you're parading around in white sheets, or demanding scholarships because of the colour of your skin, you're still a racist. See here for an excellent pictorial explanation if you're still confused.
I remember back in the 80's playing text based games and thinking how cool it was that this new medium would put race aside... how wrong I was. The premis of the article misses the point, it's not the color of the hand that holds the gun that is important... it's the target at the end of the barrel. A huge majority of games these days are promoting an "it's okay to shoot browns (arabs)" mentality and that just fucked up. I wonder who is promoting it? Strange how media and the game world have locked lips.
Feh. Time was when programmers used to hang out on Slashdot. I thought the title was about race conditions in game programming!
Turns out its something to do with skin color, which being a disciple of the great Dr. Colbert, I don't see anyway.
In games I usually play with a darker skin for the simple reason that white skins generally just don't look too good. (am I the only one who in NWN1 had all females with light skin look like they had a 5 o'clock shadow)
I also often play a female, for no other reason then that I prefer the look.
But what I mainly play is "me". For instance I rarely take the romance options for the female character I play because either they are stupid or as a hetero male that is a bit to close to being gay and we can't have that can we? Why if I felt for that hunky piece of man meat and melted away in his strong arms.... Right, who is up for some rugby. Just us men, groping each other on the field Damn...
In the first two GTA you played probably a non-descript white guy. Later that turned into an italian and finally a black guy.
But in these cases it is more then a skin. I play my olive skinned female woodelf as a chaotic good "lesbian". In these GTA games I am the mafia italian and the gangmember black guy. There is NO option for me to play the game except as in these roles. Well except not to play.
As a non-criminal, the role of a mafia gang-member is already a bit of a stretch. I do not have a fantasy about being a criminal at all and certainly not with the background of the GTA criminals. The mafia member in Mafia (pretty similar game in many ways) was however sympathetic to me.
The black dude? Sorry, zero connect. Nothing he does (and the game asks me to do) agrees with me. He is scum with not a single redeeming value. Worse, he ain't even very good at it.
The problem is that you ain't even allowed to think you are playing the bad guy. I liked Tie-Fighter (until it dragged into you being sorta the good guy after all because there was an even bigger evil then you), when you were serving the empire fighting that rebel scum. I happily play the nazi side in a WW2 game but don't expect of me to see them as anything but soldiers serving one of the greatest evils.
It is not about black/mafia culture either in GTA. In NWN2 they make a whole point about religion and those who do not believe in a god or only fake it are said to go to a form of hell after their deaths. Well FUCK THEM. My religion is nothing and so be it. I am playing a role and that does not involve kowtowing to some beard in the sky, even if in that universe they are real.
I will not play a religious freak.
But did I not enjoy the GTA games? As a movie, yes. I played them as watching a movie. Perhaps that may have been the idea and I am just wrong in thinking you have to be the character. But it was one of those movies were you do not care if the hero dies, and perhaps even cheer as he buys the farm. The anti-hero if you like.
I am quite certain that people who want "blacks" in video games do not want them ala GTA. Or maybe they do.
Am I just an idiot for wanting to play a character I can agree with? Just ask your average male to play a homosexual. Lesbian? SURE, but MALE homosexual. EEEEEEK!
It is offcourse typical that the article talks about blacks when there are so many more races and for that matter many more underrepresented groups. When was the last time you played a lesbian jewish asian hermaphrodite. Oh, yeah, last week. God I love NWN2.
Deus EX (both versions) gave you a choice of skin color (but not sex)allowing you to choose your race. Provided you wanted to play from a small selection of the genetic variation of either africa, europe or asia. For instance, no aboriginals or indians etc etc.
It also made the barest of impact on the game. So why was it there? The apperance of PC correctness as you say. Keep it.
Do I care about race in a game, no, it is just a skin. But the person I am supposed to be in that game got to be something I can indentify with. That I cannot identify with the black gangmember in GTA has nothing to do with his race. If the game had been set in japan with an asian gangmember it would not have connected for me either.
it is WHAT the character does that matters, not wich texturemap has been applied. Mmmm, perhaps actions should be more important then apperances in games. Nah, if that worked we would have it in real life already.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
She's about as black as Lilo in Lilo and Stich.
I still haven't run across a game where I could play a female dwarf with a beard. This could only be becaus of some racist and/or sexist stereotype. It's like society can't accept male dwarves who shave and female dwarves who don't!
White people take their positive portrayals in the media for granted. It's a vicious circle. The more positive portrayals in the media, the more they are thought of positively in real life, and the more people justify the portrayals in the media because "it happens in reality", and so on.
It seems that many white people can't put themselves in the shoes of another race, take Asian for example. They view the Asian character as "an Asian dude". On the other hand, minorities in this country have been forced to be race-agnostic when it comes to the media. Asian and black kids identified with Superman or Luke Skywalker... what minorities did white kids have? Bruce Lee? As soon as Bruce died, he was relegated to a stereotype, and the white controlled media pushed their next Great White Hope on everyone. (chuck norris, steven segal, etc..)
Why even subscribe to slashdot's rss feed anymore... this is like yesterday's news on the wired rss feed...
i swear slashdot has become the place of old recycled news and reposts, and even multi-posts about the same thing.
Apparently game designers think it matters, that's why the vast majority of protagonists in video games (and the media) are Caucasian. Obviously, marketing people think that race DOES matter - speak up and prove them wrong.
Would you mind if Snake was an Asian American soldier?
Or that Mario was black?
It shouldn't matter - just look at Forgotten Realms Baldur's Gate - they had characters of many different races (elves that are black, asians, mixed-race dwarves), and it was still an enjoyable game. In fact Lord of the Rings should have taken a page out of the same book and casted multi-racial good guys. It wouldn't have diminished the story, and have been just as good if not better.
Only through the portraying minorities positively in the media can we reduce racism and stereotypes. So far, our media has failed in that regard.
Haha, yup, I read it as "Do you care about Racing games?". And to answer that question, if there was a World Rally Championship racing game out there, then yes, I would. I would give anything for an awesome WRC game :(
Back on topic. My warrior is Caucasian, my monk is Asian, my necro is Native African. When designing them, I cared about their appearence, such as skin colour and face details, but not their race.
I worked with a woman who looked (to everyone) Filipino, but she identified as black. Her husband, Filipino, kept his mouth shut when we asked him about it. She said she was black, because apparently she has an ancestor who is black (or mixed race, in all likelihood) and that's what she chose to identify as. I know mixed-race people who identify as white or as latino depending on who they're hanging out with that day. If I remember correctly from a vapid interview I read with Christina Aguillera, she considers herself a "woman of color" even though she looks about as white as I do. Race is now as much about self-perception, maybe even more, than it is about the perception of others.
I don't care what race she is! Latina, asian, pacific, white, black, orange, purple.. hey even alien, as long as she's pretty and carries a kickass weapon and stuff.
Do it yourself, because no one else will do it yourself. [beta blockade 10-17 Feb]
Diversity is something that was seriously lacking in early video games. The only character you could play most of the time, was the white man main character. Only recently has this changed in any major way. Two very popular games that come to mind are Diablo 2 and GTA: San Andreas. A black Paladin?! How can this be? Can I create a white paladin instead? For the first time, the middle class white gamer boy was forced to cope with the fact that he would have to play a character that was not his race. This is the experience that every other race and the other gender felt when they were forced to play a white male protagonist. GTA pushed it much further on a much larger scale. This game was almost certainly going to sell a million copies just because of its legacy. And Rockstar was actually bold enough to give the lead to a black man, living in the ghetto in the early nineties. Hell, almost none of the characters in that game were white. Diversity in video games is inevitable. The more open-minded companies will realize this and they will give someone other than a middle class white boy a chance to stand in the spotlight. These companies will sell more games because their audiences will be larger, their games will be more realistic, and their creators will be more free to create.
While the over-japanization that japan applies to their characters is a bit annoying, my problem with most japanese games is not so much the racial focus, but the sexual ambiguity of their male characters. Oddly enough, it is always the very-japanized males who comes off with very feminine features and overtones.
It's one of those things, as you mentioned, where when I was given less visual information about a character I filled the rest in my mind. Now with all these Hi-Def and lifelike realistic visuals, I'm forced to accept their reality of hordes of androgynous angst-ridden japanese teenagers set about to save the world.
Oh yeah, and Gears also has Dom playing a prominent role. I guess I couldn't ask for more diversity.
Seriously, am I the only one who read the title and thought to myself "of course race conditions are bad. I mean, we may not be talking about an OS here, but still, even if it's a game, you gotta take that shit seriously if you're doing threaded programming."
Oh. That kind of race.
That makes things...um...slightly embarassing now...
"So, do you care about race in videogames? If so, how so?"
No, I don't care about race in VGs. Just like I don't care about race in real life.
If you're a prick, you're a prick. If you're cool, you're cool. If you're a loser, you're a loser. If you're tops, you're tops. If you're trash, you're trash. Race has nothing to do with it. It's common sense.
And I'm not sure if anyone should worry about race in VGs...unless it's blatant stereotyping, like in GTA:San Andreas. Hell, after playing the game, my friend made the joke that it should be called "Microsoft Ni**a Simulator 2006." I mean, seriously. You have to eat fried chicken and watermelon to regain health. That's just F'D up. Period.
The whole point is: race (to me) doesn't make a difference and *shouldn't* make a difference.
I thought this was supposed to be an enlightened society...? *shrugs*
(For the record, I'm "white"...if you call being Irish, German, Dutch, American Indian and Jew = white.)
1 is the square root of all evil.
race has no significance in games.
the protagonist could be white, black, chinese, native american, philipino, or hispanic.
it doesn't matter to me.
just as long as the voice acting is good and appropriate.
They're using their grammar skills there.
Jason Ellis is a 'black activist.' As near as I can tell, that seems to consist of forcing race distinctions into an artificial world, no matter how little they belong there.
"People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban
When I'm in any of my white/blonde-haired av's attending a public event, I usually get spammed by KKK International. Interesting, no?
So, yes. Race matters
I don't care what the race is, so long as it makes sense.
Trouble is marketing departments don't seem to see it that way all the time. There are games where an American is shoehorned into, for example, a battle between Germans and Russians or French and you're given some convoluted storyline behind it but you know it's because there are a lot of people in the game's biggest market who won't want to play as a Frenchman or a Russian.
Alyx Vance, the heroine from Half Life 2 is so gawdamn hawt! She looks exotic and sure enough her father is african-descended and her mother - well I'm not sure - the photograph in Eli's lab sorta looks like she might be plain euro, possibly italian or french, or possibly even south american indian. Alyx Vance probably is not so appealing to girls but I wouldn't really know for certain about that - the Amazon factor probably would count for a lot given female gamers are often not exactly fond of the overtly feminine anyway.
:)
Her racial ambiguity and as you learn as you play, mixing, is very appealing and I'd say adds to her allure. I dunno about anyone else but I want Alyx by my side when I need to wipe out the combine... or even just to enjoy a nice dinner and fine wine with
I'm white/caucasian.
Played through most of san andreas. (freakin' bad aircraft controls stopped me from finishing it)
Whole time you're playing a black guy generally killing white guys who are scum.
Didn't bother me at all.
Although I have to admit, if you strip away race.. say every single person in the game was white instead, it wouldn't really have mattered to the game.
So was it that playing a black person didn't bother me? Or was it simply that you didn't really play a black person in the game? (ie it was just a 3d model painted and there was nothing put in the game that made you get a sense of how african-americans live today)
I don't care about the skintone of my character but if you use stereotypes and force me to listen to hiphop/rap and an almost indecipherable dialect of english, I'm not going to stick around long. (but then, if I have to listen to country and a bunch of hillbillies I'm not going to stick around either)
Give me a black/asian/hispanic character, give him a good story (focus on cultural differences is a-ok, let me see through their eyes), break stereotypes and make the game fun and I'll be happy to play.
I'm a white guy, but I studied Film/Video Studies at the University of Michigan along with Computer Science. I currently freelance doing film/interactive hybrid projects for a lot of high-profile stuff, game companies not excluded. I had to chime in, because UofM really presses the race-awareness thing with film students. I also have a pretty multi-racial family and am happy to deck the first guy who drops an N-bomb at the bar. So my take: The important thing UofM taught was that stereotypes get most effectively propagated through mass media. For those of us in the industry, its imperative to understand the power we wield with regards to this sort of thing, in addition to all sorts of other effects we have. It's also important to make a dope game that everyone can get into. I can't help but think of Rockstar's Grand Theft Auto San Andreas -- I had a conversation with my nephew, a 14 year old half-black, half-Danish kid, about this game. I felt the game walked the line well between being a decent crossover between entertaining game, celebration of hip hop culture, observation of the power structures behind organized crime in all its forms, and also the pan-ultimate failure of a good example of just about anything for young people. If I were 14, I'd want to play it. He told me, "yeah, my mom doesn't like me playing it because it makes black people look bad, but it's a fun game." Art needs the ability to reflect culture, represent it, satirize it. Where it goes wrong is when we use it to intentionally or UNintentionally harm a people or propagate an idea that harms a people. Often it's the latter we have to watch out for. But it's only a matter of time before Inky, Blinky, and Sue file a class action lawsuit.
Actually, I was thinking about this earlier for some reason, but I've always figured that maybe the racial/gender characteristics of primary characters was more representative of the people who designed them and/or programmed the games.
Of course this might not mix with the FF games (being I believe of Japanese origin but tending to have non-asian looking primary characters for the most part), but I've always figured the lack of black characters was due to less black programmers, as perhaps the lack of strong female characters (most of the ones that do exist showing up in slinky outfits) being due to lack of female coders or 3d designers.
the lack of choosing a different color in PacMan has always bugged me too
The best weapon of a dictatorship is secrecy, but the best weapon of a democracy should be the weapon of openness.
I know this is pretty much a Slashdot cliche, but: I think I'm going to get modded down for this. You can't talk about having a "racial preference" in the midst of geekdom. It's a flamewar waiting to happen.
Anyway: Yes. Not for anyone else's character. Just for mine.
I pay attention to what I am. I'm a human. Male, and white, if you must know. That's my preference. It's just easier to relate to my character that way: to think of "him" as [an extension of?] myself.
I don't care what you are.
Assume I was drunk when I posted this.
Yeah there are some games with black characters.
I don't think however that race as a social concept should be forced into the gaming industry.
If a character is black then the character is black, most fighting games, sports games, and others, have a variety of characters to choose from. Anything from Mortal Kombat to Virtua Fighter to Tekken to Madden.
I don't see how this is an issue worth discussing.
I am one of the millions that played GTA:SA and loved Carl "CJ" Johnson and the rest of the crew.
On the other hand, I enjoyed Duke Nukem 3D as much as every other guy (Duke is the exact opposite of CJ: white blond against black).
Race plays absolutely no role in my gaming life, and I pretty much prefer to play an interesting and dynamic character like CJ in an interesting environment like Los Santos rather than the next fantasy warrior or prince or a pale white boy who doesn't have the slightest idea of what is cool and what isn't cool.
Of course I do - just like I do with 'fun' movies (as opposed to serious, cinematic, etc. movies). I want to identify with my 'group', and I want my characters to identify with me. That means their race must be similar to mine.
It also means their basic behavior, modeling, and other things should be, preferably, like me. Or the idealized version of me - what I'd like to look and act like - at least.
Think some of the more wildly popular FPS shooters in the last couple years:
- Max Payne - spindly white guy who thinks he's Clint Eastwood with a closet-geek personality who kicks ass and gets the women.
- Half-Life - Mr. Freeman is the typical geek - but he kicks ass and doesn't take names.
- Any of the war games (Red Orchestra, COD, MOH, etc.), where the characters are all 'common man' type personalities.
The more the player identifies with the characters or the more interesting the characters are, the more likely people are to like the game and its characters. It's the same as it is in movies. Gams like Duke Nukem 3D didn't have a realistic character, but there were qualities which appealed to the gaming demographic sufficient to create a dedicated (cult) following a full 10 years into the 'development' of a sequel.
Contrast that to a game like Doom 3, which has an almost completely forgettable protagonist and has been, as near as I can tell, forgotten.
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
Why do people assume that Jade is a human of any race?
She lives on Hillys, a non earth planet, and her best friend is Pey'j, who appears to be a bipedal, talking boar. This raises three possibilities:
POSSIBILITY 1. The game is set a vast span of time into the future--long enough that boars have had the chance to evolve into a bipedal, talking species. In that case, Jade probably bears the same connection to you or I that Pey'j bears to a modern-day boar. (Which means, by the way, that no matter how hot you find Jade, she's going to be as attracted to you as, say, you are to a monkey. The pheremones and whatnot just won't work. (Not strictly on-topic, but still worth noting.))
POSSIBILITY 2. The game is set a moderate time in the future, and Pey'j is the result of man-made genetic alterations. In this case, Jade--given her incredible athleticism and reselience--is probably genetically modified as well. Therefore, her seemingly ethnic physical features might have nothing to do with her ancestry; a society that chooses to create bipedal talking boars probably has a pretty loosy-goosy attitude towards genetics, and is entirely capable of modifying facial features and skin tones to suit whatever the fashion is.
POSSIBILITY 3. Hillys was never settled by humans, and it's a complete coincidence that so many of its beings resemble earth beings. In which case, no matter how much Jade's outsides might look human, her internal organs are probably completely different.
In fact--and I should warn you that SPOILERS FOLLOW! STOP READING IF YOU DON'T WANT THE END OF THIS GAME RUINED FOR YOU!--
I'm not kidding. SPOILERS COMING!
The end of the game makes it clear that Jade isn't even a traditional biological being. She's some kind of personified alien energy or something. So her race is completely irrelevent...
Arr! Read The Government Manual for New Pirates!
http://www.smm.org/race/about/
I'm with the guy who goes Dwarf for warriors and Elf for mages.
BG&E is one of the best games I've played, but I never really noticed any 'race' for Jade. I guess I just assumed she was white since I am. Or that she was whatever race people are on her planet. I guess that means a non-earth race?
I think the fact that other people see her in whatever way they prefer is a testament to excellent character design. Just one of the small touches that made that game great. (still crossing my fingers for a sequel)
This makes sense.
Check out some of Scott McClouds's books - especially "Understanding Comics", where he talks about how comics can be very powerful specifically because a depiction of a person - the protagonist - that isn't completely photo realistic, and looks comicy (vague) in some way - allows the reader to put themselves more in the protagonists shoes.
Making the race of a protagonist unclear in a computer game is much the same effect - the reader/player can imagine themselves in those shoes....
In the TOS, there was an episode where the Enterprise encounters an Amerindian tribe; during the mission they discuss the theory that a progenitor race had seeded the galaxy with a root humanoid species.
Clear, Dark Skies
This is the one subject that I hate the most. Why it is the people who support equality are quick and constantly pointing out the difference among the different ethnic groups. It seems to me that these individuals have e need to stir up the pot in order to make themselves important and justify there rolls as "community leaders". People need to get beyond this and quit blaming other ethnic groups for what has happen to their ancestors by certain ethnic groups. Or maybe that just what the "community leaders" want, to perpetuate the hatred and mistrust among different ethnic groups for their own agendas. What would certain "community leaders" do for a living if they could not be in the news and make themselves media celebrities? When I think of "race" I think of the human race, I try not to prejudge a person because of what ethnic background they come from. Treat me and others as a human and I will do the same. Do not make excuses for yourself because of what ethnic group you belong to, that just continues the lie that the "community leaders" want you to believe. Why do they want to separate us by dividing us as "African Americans", "Asian Americans" or what ever other type they can come up with. Are we not all just "Americans"? I must stop now before my blood pressure gets too high. Can we not all just get along, get past the past and move forward or are we doomed to keep reliving the mistakes of the past.
If your playing a game where you get to kill Germans in WW2 you are not going to be shooting up a town full of arabs.
If your shooting up East LA, guess what its hispanics
If your shooting up New Orleans... it blacks
As for the rest... who cares its just a #&@&*#^ game.
-- I am the NRA, enough said...
Who else would try to attach a rocket booster to a carriage meant for horses?
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
but only in racing games
You haven't looked, have you? There are tons of them. Some are better than others, though.
The only one I've played is Colin McRae Rally (one of the last two versions, I forget which) and it is quite enjoyable. It lets you race the WRC stages, with a co-driver giving you pace notes.
There's also a PC simulator whose name escapes me at the moment. It's supposed to be quite good, but quite graphics intensive.
I wonder what race people thought their charachters were back in the 80s and 90s when almost all people in video games were pixelated abstractions.
When I played Zelda 1 & 2 on the NES, back in the late 80s, I thought the game was supposed to be placed in a setting based on mid-evil Europe, with all characters being white. Recently, I've been playing Zelda on the Wii and have been wondering what race the characters are. Everyone has light skin, and one of the major players (Colin) has very blond hair. On the other hand, many of the characters have asian facial features and postures. Sumo wrestling is part of the plot.
No, I will not work for your startup
Just because mostly minorities get caught for criminal activitity it does not mean that most crimes are commited by minorities, it simply means that when white males commit the same crimes they don't get caught, perhaps because they are above the law somehow.
All groups are filled with criminals, I've never met a gruop of angels in my life. I don't trust sny race, or any group, they are are equally dangerous and equally evil, it's about the individuals not the groups.
There are individuals I like. I don't care for groups.