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Spy Act of 2007 = "Vendors Can Spy Act"
strick1226 writes "Ed Foster over at InfoWorld describes the Spy Act bill (H.R. 964) as having the same relation to the prevention of spyware that the CAN SPAM Act had to the prevention of spam. It allows exceptions for companies to utilize spyware for any number of reasons; if this bill had been law when Sony distributed their rootkit, they would have had perfect cover. Most troubling is that the bill would preempt all state laws, including those more focused on the privacy of people's data, and disallow individuals from bringing suit. It is expected to pass soon with 'strong bipartisan support.'"
I don't see who this will be a problem.
... there go more of our personal rights simply to support the big business and such. Who wants to guess how long it'll take Sony to restart their whole rootkit campaign? Can't forget Microsoft and all those ISPs that want to spy on you. Big Brother is watching you after all
Is that a reference to Clerks?
So now they're just making the cash-enema legal? I guess it beats all the lying and sneaking and stealing... just change what's considered "legal" until you can do whatever you want!
If you have money.
I like to place meaningful quotes in my sig, so people will know that I know what meaningful quotes are.
Then teach people that the mere sight of an EULA means that "this software might fuck you" and that you better not take a chance with it. Software giants will have a choice: either they don't fuck the user and have no EULA, or they do and everyone knows about it.
Okay, so form a company (buy an off the shelf company), buy some spyware and give/sell to your local politician (federal/state), see how they feel about the loss of their privacy
Politicians are supposed to represent the people who elected them, not the companies that spend the most money on them.
Oh well, good by democracy for the people and hello capitalism!
I wonder how much longer that'll fly with the local states. See: http://www.realidrebellion.com/ in regards to another law which steps on state rights, and who's unhappy with it.
Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
...then all spyware will be legal. COMPANIES are the ones who install spyware in the first place. It's there for ADVERTISING. Who does advertising? COMPANIES! This bill will only completely legalize spyware.
We had this discussion before. The law will make it perfectly legal to spy on you, and you new shiny OS will make it perfectly impossible (well, as long as DRM works) for you to prevent this by technical means.
People who say that it doesn't matter to them, whether Vista has DRM or not as long as they can play their games, maybe surprised to find out that the DRM may make it impossible for them to enjoy their games through enabling the spying and whatever other active measures that can be taken by spying software. Do you like modifying your games in any way? It may become impossible if you are on a DRM platform and you are spied upon. Of-course there are those, who would rely on the DRM to be broken but this is not a very good practice to rely on that, I mean there are so many problems with that, for example why would you trust a 'DRM removing patch' from someone to be spyware/rootkit free? It is better to avoid such products altogether. Avoid DRM products, avoid spyware infected products, that's the only way to really stay in the clear. Besides, isn't it illegal to remove 'security protection' under DMCA anyway?
Free Software becomes more and more attractive in this culture of customer spying and DRM locking every day.
You can't handle the truth.
...open source software. Even in the Linux world that means not using binary drivers. Who knows perhaps Nvidia or other binary drivers have a backdoor installed at the request of NSA. Is that probable - No. Possible? - Maybe. AT&T for example was diverting (still is?) a lot of the their data to NSA, if they wrote drivers, don't you think they would be willing to include a backdoor for U.S. government to use? For all we know such a backdoor exists in Windows. After a high number of cyber attacks on .mil, I am sure Uncle Sam can ask Microsoft to install a small code fragment that would allow access to any machine after say a pre-determined pattern of socket connection attempts or something like that.
This came from the newly-Democratic House of Representatives... so can we get a third party in there that isn't so technologically inept, and that isn't so beholden to corporate interests?
Can they root kit my linux box to make sure that I'm not paying them any money for their software?
Exception Relating to Security- Nothing in this Act shall apply to--
(1) any monitoring of, or interaction with, a subscriber's Internet or other network connection or service, or a protected computer, by a telecommunications carrier, cable operator, computer hardware or software provider, or provider of information service or interactive computer service, to the extent that such monitoring or interaction is for network or computer security purposes, diagnostics, technical support, or repair, or for the detection or prevention of fraudulent activities; or
OK, your ISP can do network trouble shooting. Your HW / SW vendor can provide on-line tech support. Seems reasonable to me.
(2) a discrete interaction with a protected computer by a provider of computer software solely to determine whether the user of the computer is authorized to use such software, that occurs upon -- (A) initialization of the software; or (B) an affirmative request by the owner or authorized user for an update of, addition to, or technical service for, the software.
Microsoft can run their "Genuine Advantage" crap. Not thrilled about it, but not surprised.
I don't see anything to get terribly alarmed about. What am I missing?
[Insert pithy quote here]
For the knob who said: ""but the protest would have been the same - it was more of a moral outrage than a legal outrage." Just trying to get the first post in? Living under a rock? Are you a troll? There are hundreds of articles on the net and in newspapers of the legal repercussions that Sony was hit with. Lawsuits and compensation were legal repercussions. Just Google it.
Just another brick in the wall.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
I own the patent for the use of spyware for ensuring proper licensing of software. Yeah the patent office dropped the ball on that one but now we are all winners because if they root kit your windows box they'll have to pay me millions. Well, at least I'm a winner.
What's the deal?
Why do people think you can legislate your way out of these issues? Spyware, spam, etc . . .
For e-mail, use a system that is not susceptible to spam (good filtering, and a white list).
For software, use a system that is not susceptible to spyware (OS X, or Linux).
Spyware doesn't bother me now, it hasn't bothered me in the past, and it won't bother me in the future. If you've got a problem with spyware, either stop buying products from the people who are infecting your system (ahem, Sony), of stop buying systems that are prone to infection (ahem, Microsoft).
If a company sells you an unsafe car, do you blame the government, or the car company? And having been sold 2 or 3 unsafe cars already, why would you go back to the same vendor?
Non issue. Something Congress shouldn't discuss or legislate about. Get over it, and stop being a slave to the MS monoculture.
WhiteWolf666 an exBush supporter. All you new-school,compassionate,save the children Republicans can rot in hell
Deduct your lost bandwidth and cpu cycles and disk space from your taxes. And the lost potential revenue of selling you're consumer info. (sometimes you can get things with material value for filling out a survey)
We are all just people.
Stoopid Democrats!
You read the article.
'nuff said.
Python coder | PyQt Applications | Writer
Email your..no write..no call...well hell. They don't care anyway.
Soap box, check. Ballot box, check. Anyone remember what came next? Jury box? How do we get in on that? Oh well, probably won't work. Lets skip it and go straight to the ammo box.
What can we reasonably do against a government that sits there and sells our freedoms to the highest vendor? It won't be long before we're forced to pay three easy payments of $599.99 for a new TV-doo-hickie to watch us while we're watching TV. In the name of advertisement, of course, to figure out how we react to some shows.
Job? I don't have time to get a job! Who will sit around and bitch about being broke and unemployed then?
Moral desensitization leads to legal deregulation. With enough exposure and promotion, the public will accept the legalization of just about anything (as history has shown). It is in the interests of large businesses to protect their market and to discover new markets by having the upper hand in intelligence.
The problem has become that legitimate and morally acceptable markets are generally well serviced and difficult to break into. Companies are therefore very tempted to create new markets, or break into markets which hitherto have been illegal (usually because they are viewed as immoral or socially destructive), such as porn, prostitution, addictive substances, and now privacy invasion.
As the only way to create these kinds of markets is to change legislation, these companies are very active in infiltrating and influencing government. The US government is particularly prone to this kind of corruption.
All of this is obvious. But the techniques used are subtle. They will try to sell the idea to make it appear to be in the public interest. Who knows, maybe we can expect to see a report of a missing child found because of spyware, or some shit like that.
Do it yourself, because no one else will do it yourself. [beta blockade 10-17 Feb]
Yes, it is.
Much to my annoyance, Anna Eshoo, the local congresswoman for Silicon Valley, is a cosponsor on this turkey. I sent in a letter. This thing needs some work in committee to clean it up, preferably well enough that EPIC is satisfied with it.
I think that software companies behind the Operating systems being used today should take full responsibility at prevention and removal of spyware/adware/malware. There should be no need for anti-virus software. Microsoft should stay ahead of virus writers in order to patch systems with vulnerabilities, and in a much better way then the present.
This weekend, I was given a PC that needed to have viruses, spyware, malware removed... I thought it was a joke, this thing looked like a honeypot. It had every trojan known to man on it, every piece of spyware, backdoor, and virus had infected it, and no form of security (besides Service Pack 1 for XP). After 4 days straight trying to remove them (formatting not being an option, because the person was missing their OS restore cd and/or Windows XP home edition CD) I have finally gotten all of them removed... but my point, is that none of this should have ever been possible. An operating system should be designed more intelligently than those who want to exploit those same operating systems. I'm sure if they took the same amount of time they spend trying to promote new products and put it into better R&D for patching vulnerabilities, none of this would happen... but I suppose we don't know who scratches whose back in the world of Operating system / Anti-virus vendor's anymore....
Relocating to San Francisco / Palo Alto... Hire me?
if you're not in your parents' basement.
Someone hates these cans.
Suck it up Gringos. I gotta ask, How much can you people swallow before you need your stomach pumped? More than Rod Stewart?
Fuck you for not taking back your lies. - pudge
Good luck trying to get past BlackIce with application protection enabled!
Eternity: will that be smoking, or non-smoking? I Corinthians 6:9-10
This bill smells...and it smells of horrible pop music and RIAA lawyers... And even if they are not involved in the creation of this bill (which I doubt given their attempts to legislate their ideals of copyright protection), I bet they would support it wholeheartedly.
Government seems to exist now to create and enforce laws of big business self interests, by big business lobbyists, for big business ever greater appetite for exploiting and plundering shared resources and rights.
Our democracy is lost, we no longer live in a democratic political system. Just the illusion is promoted through propoganda.
Bravo Republicans, Democrats and corporate leaders. You have won at all cost and now all is lost.
The next paradigm is already begun and will be the reclaiming and exposing of the crimes against the people of the earth and the earth itself, by selfish empire builders running the world. Shamre on you and shame on us for not seeing the fundamental problem of our time.
SimBuddha.
Whhhaaaat? Ed "I need an enema" Foster is back at Infoworld? Good for them; I may add them to my favorites again. Looks like either IW got a new owner, or came up with some cash to pay the guy.
Ask your congress-critter just how this vote benefits You! If they can't give you a good answer to this, ask them why they're still in office.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
Did anyone actually expect a law that limits the power of businesses and hands some back to you? Can you name a single law that was created in the last, say, 7 years that actually promotes privacy and limits the power businesses have over you?
Oh, yes, it "outlaws" spyware... with a few hand picked exceptions that can be summed up with "spyware is outlawed unless some company uses it".
In fact this legalizes spyware rather than outlawing it. Until now you could at least try to get a lawsuit going and at least get a humiliating settlement (humiliating for you, not the corp using spyware against you). See the Sony rootkit trials for details.
With this in effect, the judge would have to throw it out of court even before anything starts, because it would certainly fit the "exceptions".
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
With a Democate controlled congress we think everything thing the congress does is considered to be Democrate sponsered. Some bad moves have been their intiatives.
This bill is not one of them. This bill is sponsered by the Republicans "Rep Towns, Edolphus" and 36 of his republican collegues see http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d110:H.R.Its important to see the individuals who are supporting this kind of legislation so we can keep an eye on them and I think its poor reporting not to give all the facts.
"Never say Never."
Vista's DRM doesn't prevent you from doing anything that you could have done on XP.
Mmmm.. Donuts
Doesn't mean the industry wants to find a solution.
They say one thing.
And spend money lobbying for another.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
This leads me to reflect that in the last election we replaced republicans who had sold out to stay in power with democrats who sold out to get in power. Fucking awesome.
Sometimes at night I imagine the darkness is filled with horrible things with too many teeth, like Julia Roberts.
If you haven't already.. now would be a great time to read George Orwell's book 1984, because it seems we're getting closer and closer to the state of corporate spying and invasion of our private lives.
For those interested, here is the entire book in pdf format.
The magical number is: 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
I am calling my represenative tomorrow and complaining big time! There is no need for the states to loose protection.
:) :)
I encourage everyone to go to: http://www.house.gov/, locate your rep, and leave a voice mail! Imagine what will happen when users download industry stuff to corporate computers. I know Texas A&M University has already had it share of security holes recently, and do not need anymore! Do companies and universities really want more? Just imagine users and students installing all sorts of stuff on their computers, and all the holes it will bring. Come on now, we have to speak up and write, call, and communicate!
This frustrates me to no end!
Here's Microsoft making a concerted effort to try and keep spyware off peoples computers, and the government turns around and makes it legal. I hear their first official service pack has been put on hold for a couple months and the name's been changed to 'Vista Loosey Goosey'. All those durn security issues have finally been fixed...
I have nothing compelling to say
mod this guy up.. he gets it.
VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
Administration says this :
"We were trying to do spying through government agencies, but it seems that due to public pressure we will have to eventually let go of it. So, we put out this act to allow private companies to spy on people, so we will be able to continue spying through private companies that are affiliated with us. And as its private and everyone can do this, noone can object"
Read radical news here
List of sponsors: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d110:HR009 64:@@@P
I wonder how much donations from companies these guys get.
EvilCON - Made Famous by
OK, then. All that's needed is for a "software provider" (read: anyone with an account on sourceforge or freshmeat) to start "deploying" (read: deliver via trojan or other backdoor) a "poorly-written" (read: amazingly resource intensive) program to check for "fraudulent activities". My understanding is that this would be perfectly legal; the campaign could be accompanied by public statements (anonymous or attributed) explaining the situation.
Naturally, this idea wouldn't really work... The brave soul(s) undertaking this might or might not escape prison, but it's doubtful the law would be repealed. Oh well.
If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine.
The money buys the media time that drives the sheeple vote (and the rest of us away, with no alternatives), therefore the money is the vote. See "The Space Merchants" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Space_Merchants.
There is one party at the national level in the United States, the Demopublican Party, dedicated to the proposition that only their members have a chance to get a seat. Until the House of Representatives looks more like the Bundestag, where there are some real choices and representation of more than the 1.5 sets of delusions there now, it will continue to be the Reichstag, regardless of which wing of the Demopublicans have the most seats. If you think it's inflammatory, do some research. The National Socialist Party of early-mid-Twentieth Century Germany was firmly dedicated to a business-government partnership (with religious zealotry), regardless of it's impact on the average German farmer, craftsman, or shopkeeper. The only difference between the wings of the Demopublicans is WHICH industries are favored: the "demo" wing supports Hollywood's (and, to a smaller extent, Silicon Valley's) agenda, while the "publican" wing supports the "big", typically industrial and financial, businesses, and major stakeholders therein, agenda.
Problem is the user themselves probably either actually installed or authorized 50% of what you found.
Did they have a clue what they were doing? No. Should they have been allowed to install software on their computer if they didn't know better? No.
If the OS can prevent or allow installation of software, you can't blame the OS for allowing the user to install software. You can lock Windows down so installation of trojans, spyware, etc. is impossible. What you then have is an email/web surfing appliance. Which is probably what your user really needed.
my systems are "protected computers".
my use of software does not grant the publisher access to my systems, quite the contrary.
any violation of my systems or network integrity will be prosecuted under the computer fraud and abuse act.
They're using their grammar skills there.
Go to hell if they think spying on their customers is ok.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
While doing research to write Congressman Kline (2nd District, Minnesota) I came across HR 1525 (I-SPY act, much coooler name) that appears to be a competing piece of legislation that is much more palatable.
The exceptions are too broad.
You are being MICROattacked, from various angles, in a SOFT manner.
Interesting, as previous legislation probably makes it unwise for any CEO to allow an OS or software which could contain such spyware to be used.
Obviously it could be used to extract information damaging to the financial position of a company from inside a companies firealls.
Fortunately (I guess) there might be easy way to tell which procucts will be spying.
These won't be available in Europe, I assume. Of course theere might be special version of given
product for each market... but then, privacy-aware customers might order in EU on-line stores.
(and hope that some federal agency won't swap your new mobile phone to look-alike with
US-spyware crap)
It is expected to pass soon with 'strong bipartisan support.
Damned Republicans!
Don't blame me, I didn't vote for either of them!
What's this spyware you are talking about?
"Linux user"
Congress doesn't even pretend they are doing this for consumers' benefit. I figured it wasn't going to be long before they finally just said, "Yeah, we're gonna screw you over. Whatcha gonna do? Vote for the other party?! HAW HAW HAW!"
You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
When it says "Nothing in this Act shall apply to", that doesn't mean "the following is legal". It means, "Nothing is in the books about the following as far as this bill is concerned".
So if an existing Federal or state law specifically mentions that a provider or software vendor may never access your computer under any circumstance, then that law will supercede this bill.
Or am I missing something?
I wonder how much longer that'll fly with the local states.
Doesn't matter. This law overrides state laws that conflict with it, as authorized by the "supremacy clause" of the US Constitution.
(That's the one that is often misread to say that treaties have the force of constitutional amendments. In fact it says that the Constitution, federal laws passed under the authorization of the constitution, and treaties negotiated and ratified as authorized by the constitution, each override state law when they are in conflict.)
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
During the enactment of CAN-SPAM, there were still some companies that thought SPAM was a legitimate marketing technique. Thus lobbyists and legislatures protected that SPAM. Now that well has been pissed in to the point of uselessness. Sure, the big companies all still SPAM but their reputations lessen and SPAM is universally decried. Perhaps the abuse of this proposed legislation will create some closed-source backlash.
Security is a shield, malware is a weapon. Now, who can tell me who wins in the eternal race between better guns and better armor?
Malware wins. And it always will.
I see your informative link, and raise you a pithy comment.
The Bill of Rights restrictts a number of government acivities, including spying (4th), suppressing speech (1st), torture (8th) etc. That's probably why they are being outsourced to private corporations.
the best democracy that money can buy!
Vote for the candidate that bases policy based on real public opinion.
People don't seem to have a clue about how the "United" "States" thing was supposed to work. Federal laws that "over rule" states were NEVER supposed to happen.
http://ca.lp.org/printer_lp20070410.shtml
*SIGH* the USA experiment was a great success. Now it is over, sadly. Move along. Nothing new to see here any more.
It will be interesting to casually read about the surfing, and purchasing habits of such notables as President Bush, and Vice President Chaney. What will be even more interesting are the surfing, and purchasing habits of other world leaders, and their "supporters." Of course one might think that their favorite hero would never be caught doing something un-hero like; Guess again, the Paparazzi of the internet now will have access to the very data that the law givers provided to insecure corporations. Of course, there is the fact that once this personal data starts to pile up, that instead of stealing the data, it is purchased. Now, one does not need to tell all the victims of this faceless treachery, customers personal data was not stolen, it was sold.
"You have no the choice." - The Cheshire Cat
According to Sony, the module mounts on the back of compatible Sony televisions and connects to the Internet via an existing broadband Ethernet connection without the use of a computer. It won't be long till instant messaging cams show up on these too. First maybe as addons, then they'll just cram all of the components into a tv-replacing box with a built in camera as one of it's fine features. We already know Sony doesn't mind playing with root kits. Now they can just sell you root kits built into the hardware. It may quite possibly become the only type of tv on the market with the way our government is apparently encouraging businesses to sell back doors into it's citizens systems and homes.
It's obvious our government is no longer functioning like a government at all and much more like a business. Our president has become our CEO.
"Corporate America" = America, Inc.
http://news.com.com/2300-1041_3-6162707-16.html?t
It doesn't matter which party is out to screw us over. The professional politicians, who stay in office by selling their votes (not directly, perhaps, but effectively), need to keep their paying masters happy. The republicans are beholden to one set of bosses, the democrats to another. Both parties are equally corrupt and they just find different ways to sell their corruption to the people.
The continual sniping "the republicans do this", "no the democrats are worse" just ignores the deeper problem and sidetracks people into pointless spats - spats that the politicians love, down deep, as it just increases their hold on the spatters.
1) Always require a citizen to give explicit consent for every piece of personal information and every use thereof that is to be collected
2) Does not allow strict legal action to be taken by a victim of spying against the perpetrators
Again, let me stress that this bill, in its current form, sells out the privacy of the American people to corporations looking to make a greasy buck at the expense of the freedoms that make this country great, the freedoms that our armed service people are fighting and dying to protect. It is NOT okay for corporations to spy on their customers, even in the name of protecting their business interests. If such a bill were crafted to allow the same types of behavior over traditional lines of communications (say, phone tapping or mail tampering) it would immediately be recognized for what it is: a farce and a gross violation of character of this country and her citizens.
Thank you.
Feel free to write your own comments. Hell, I almost copy/pasted one of the better responses from this thread. Just make your voice heard people! Congress persons don't read slashdot.
It's not hard to see who has the postion of power.
Or we can elivate ourselves to their level. If the conscientious become content providers their weapons can be turned against them. Class actions. Opposition lobbies. Awareness drives. Situations can be easily contrived even designed to drum up outrage aginst their abuses.
That is exactly what the famed copyleft aims to do. Their abuse counts on their solidarity and consistancy to give abuse the look and feel of normalcy.
Generate content. Become the orginal and honerable society. Become the new better Hollywood. The stakes are higher than you think. What happens to ordinary people when meatspace is commoditized like the Internet? What do muggles do when rules like this control their access to everything? They suffer.
We have to fix this now, while we still can. Write a story. Sing a song. Be the good guy.
Novel theory: Modern Man evolved from psychopath
Time for me to form a corporation!
Been in there for years.
Here, let me draw you a picture:
BARN _| ------------> HORSE
Stand back baby, I'm a Nessus monkey with a long list of a**holes, a can 'o nmap, a fully loaded Metasploit, and I ain't afraid to use 'em.
The Russians have won. They have made the world a cesspool of distrust, greed, fear and hate.
1. Never underestimate the ability of a law to expand beyond it original ill-conceived boundaries given enough time. 2. States' rights have been non-existent for over 140 years, not just the last few. 3. Politics is about the accumulation of power in the hands of a few. 4. Read the sig. 5. Be afraid. Be very afraid.
Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
so called "Federal Law" from superceding State Law.t ution
Read it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Consti
It has been said that people pretty much get the government they deserve. Is it so? Just curious. OTOH, Germany's minister of the interior isn't much better, given his attempts of using the "fight against terrorism" against citizens' rights over here. :-( Privacy ade? 1984?
open (SIG, "</dev/zero"); $sig = <SIG>; close SIG;
What are the Feds going to do? Invade?
To Whom It May Concern,
This bill (H.R. 964, the "Spy Act") needs to be on your agenda. If it passes in its current form, the 4th amendment will no longer exist on our computers until someone sues and it gets to the Supreme Court.
It doesn't make sense to wait for that though.
The bill aims to restrict any spy programs (spyware) on computers, but lists two notable exceptions:
> Exception Relating to Security- Nothing in this Act shall apply to--
>
> (1) any monitoring of, or interaction with, a subscriber's Internet or other network
>connection or service, or a protected computer, by a telecommunications carrier, cable operator,
>computer hardware or software provider, or provider of information service or interactive computer
>service, to the extent that such monitoring or interaction is for network or computer security
>purposes, diagnostics, technical support, or repair, or for the detection or prevention of
>fraudulent activities; or
>
> (2) a discrete interaction with a protected computer by a provider of computer software
>solely to determine whether the user of the computer is authorized to use such software, that
>occurs upon -- (A) initialization of the software; or (B) an affirmative request by the owner or
>authorized user for an update of, addition to, or technical service for, the software.
>
Which is, of course, bad law. My biggest problem is with the monitoring of "Internet... service... to the extent that such monitoring... is for...the detection or prevention of fraudulent activities." This is not because I like fraud, but because as any computer could conceivably be used for fraud, every computer could conceivably and legally be monitored under this poorly worded provision.
It basically states that any company who I do business with can wiretap my computer simply because I do business with them and am using a computer.
I like the Internet, but I like my 4th amendment assurance against unreasonable search and seizure better.
Please take preemptive action against this mess.
-----
I also sent letters to my rep, and am phoning his office, as he is a bloody sponsor of this mess.
We should Slashdot the EFF, and all call our reps, especially if you are represented by an H.R. sponsor of the bill, because the only reason to spy on someone's computer should be: BECAUSE YOU HAVE A WARRANT.
Jeez. Did they all *fail* Con Law? (IANAL)
--
Toro
Corporations are antitheitcal to the "free market." A true free market would be completely laisez faire, meaning that you and any other individual can enter into an agreement you both find beneficial. Corpations historically have been bitterly opposed to the free market - look at the RIAA, the MPAA, look at Microsoft, Novel, Sun, IBM and many, many others. The ideal of the corporation is the monopoly. They would prefer not to have competitors. The idea of patents and copyrights even stand in opposition to real free market ideals, since they confound the public and private spheres and also confuse knowledge and information with property. If you share something, say a song's lyrics publicly, copyright theoretically gives you rights to the contents of someone else's mind, since after hearing your song they are now a repository for your "property." Nothing that is capable of effecttively infinite, costless replication can be viable "property" since it is impossible for the owner to exercise real control of it, short of holding it close and secret.
------ The only greater hazard to your liberty than n politicians is n+1 politicians.
Hmm. You failed all those "Pick the best title for this passage" questions, didn't ya'? ;^P
--
Toro
Odds are yes. You'd have a bunch of people (like me) who'd comment on how the only vote you have is your money and as such one should stop buying Sony products.
Meanwhile the masses of Slashdot-onians will click their tounges, say "something should be done" then when Spider-Man 3 comes out, rush out and buy a seat at the theater.
When the gov't. fails to regulate commerce in favor of "we the people",It is one of the reasons we still get to have guns.
The gov.only has a few jobs:run a post office,protect our borders,regulate commerce,lay tariffs on imports.So far it is failing at all of these and becoming oppressive.If the gov. fails to protect us or look after our interests it is left to us to protect ourselves and our security in our homes and papers(read computer files)This justifies any action to protect oneself against commerce or the government as our founders intended.So next time you find spyware, attack the company who sent it.That is good,just and patriotic.
*Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
This is not just about OUR computers. This bill is about ALL computers, which basically means it can be used as an end-run around 4th amendment precedent regarding "wiretapping."
Imagine if an IP phone vendor requested logging and archival systems (sniffers and loggers) to be installed on all it's packet switches and transfer grid, protected spyware, because it felt the need to prevent folks from using its equipment to commit crimes using their phone system.
Imagine further when the Justice Department DEMANDS such action because it is now legal and they proceed to diligently pursue any company that does not do everything in its legal powers to prevent fraud.
Finally, realize that access to those logs and stored conversations is no longer protected by a need for a warrant should anyone decide to look at them, for any reason whatsoever, because it is now their hypothetical IP phone company's personal property, legally protected, because you used THEIR systems to make YOUR call.
"This act... shall [not] apply to... Internet... service... to the extent that such monitoring... is for...the detection or prevention of fraudulent activities."
Poison.
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Toro
At least that is outside the USA, EU offers legal protection against this.
I think any vendor trying this can get huge lawsuits overhere.
Think of the MS EU lawsuit something like that.
As industrial spying is not allowed here.
Also such companies should think of the risk they create with thier apps.
Imagine the sony rootkit, a critical bug and there goes chemical plants processing power... Oooops..
On the other side what gives the right to put in viral code on someone-else his PC ?
I do voluntair my PC time to share with Rosetta@home but not with others who might make my PC slow.
I know you're out there. I can feel you now. I know that you're afraid. You're afraid of us. You're afraid of change.
As a private citizen running an increasing risk of identity theft in a world where commercial enterprises and governments have negligently permitted my information to leak from their inadequately protected databases, I am very much looking forward to doing stealth installation of spyware on their systems to insure my personal records are indeed adequately protected.
Does anyone know of any companies worried as to the use of spyware for corporate espionage? I am sure the legislation doesn't provide protection for such behavior, but it may help provide some cover. I personally haven't heard much about this, but it is an interesting possibility. I know that at least 1 company's IT department had a very serious spyware discussion after the Sony rootkit debacle.
I wonder if any state would have the balls to threaten to succeed from the Union. The State does have a duty to protect its citizens...
Rick Boucher, usually a favorite among the slashdotters, is a sponsor.
Even if you don't use their software.
That is, this legislation would protect Microsoft snooping in on your Linux box for an "unauthorized" copy of Windows.
Companies have always been able to legally install spyware via the EULA. Now, they can install it without your consent, and leave you without any legal recourse should you incur damages.
The society for a thought-free internet welcomes you.
Of course vendors have this. Cisco publically announced at an IETF meeting that they were going to go ahead and do this, even if the IETF voted down a spec on it (which they did).
Internally, the project is called "007" (I kid you not). And the source code to it is locked up quite tightly; you need special access as a developer to get to it.
Other vendors have similar backdoors; but not all of them. Mostly it's just the big guys.
So if you buy Cisco equipment, you get a free backdoor into your network that you can't use. Note that anybody can use it, including your competition, if they know how.
Enjoy. Meanwhile, I'll stick with OpenBSD.
http://blogs.mediapost.com/spin/?p=996
I think the above article should be slashdotted. A bit of research into TACODA.. and you'll find its a behavioral research marketing company.
I've already made an account there and am going to post about said article.
I pay my credit card bill in full every month. In response to that, my credit card company shortened my grace period from 25 days to 20 days. When I got the credit card years ago, the grace period was 30 days.
So here's the math: It can take 10 days for me to get my credit card statement. It might take me 5 days to send a check (if I was paying my mail). And it might take 7 days for my payment to transit the postal system, their mail room, and their payment clerk.
Ding! 22 days! That's a $35 late fee, plus finance charges for every transaction on this month's statement *and* every transaction since the statement was sent (which will show up on next month's statement). When you are out of your grace period, there is no shield from finance charges until you pay your *entire* outstanding balance - including the finance charges.
I pay my a credit card bill by phone the same day that I get my statement so that I never push the grace period. But that will not continue. Most credit card companies have a "phone fee" of $10 more more to pay by phone (because they have stats that show that late payers frequently pay by phone to avoid the $35 fee- to them $10 is a better deal). When my credit card company starts charging a phone fee, I'll pay on-line.
That's how a credit card company displays anger and aggression.
In the Bill itself it says:
(3) COMPUTER; PROTECTED COMPUTER*- The terms `computer' and `protected computer' have the meanings given such terms in section 1030(e) of title 18, United States Code
Looking up the relevant section of US Code it defines a "computer/protected computer" as:
(1) the term "computer" means an electronic, magnetic, optical, electrochemical, or other high speed data processing device performing logical, arithmetic, or storage functions, and includes any data storage facility or communications facility directly related to or operating in conjunction with such device, but such term does not include an automated typewriter or typesetter, a portable hand held calculator, or other similar device;
(2) the term "protected computer" means a computer:
(A) exclusively for the use of a financial institution or the United States Government, or, in the case of a computer not exclusively for such use, used by or for a financial institution or the United States Government and the conduct constituting the offense affects that use by or for the financial institution or the Government; or
(B) which is used in interstate or foreign commerce or communications, including a computer located outside the United States that is used in a manner that affects interstate or foreign commerce or communication of the United States
On my reading of the bill as currently written (IANAL), it seems that this bill does not apply to the vast majority of us since it constantly refers to a "protected computer". However the part that worries me is where is says that if the monitoring fcks up your computer or internet connection the person/company doing said monitoring is not liable for any problems.
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.
The State does have a duty to protect its citizens...
Actually, no, it doesn't.
They'd like you to think it does. But the state's duties are things like preserving order, providing equal justice, and having a Republican form of government.
Individuals are just cannon fodder. In the mass the state MAY try to protect them in various ways, as part of preserving order or some other compelling state interest. But they have no duty to protect any particular one of them - unless they've explicitly created an extraordinary and risk for some particular one.
Don't believe it? Try suing the cops for failing to protect you against a crook - say, one you've repeatedly complained about or one you're a witness against.
(That's why it's so hard to get witnesses, especially against possible gang members, in states that restrict personal carry of guns for self-protection.)
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
Is privacy available to anyone without a staff to effectively enforce it? If anyone with enough money wants to break your privacy completely, it's pretty easy. Hire a lawyer - done. Lawyers charge a lot for a reason - they do the dirty work. Hire detectives. Pick the doorlocks, install some gadgets, pay off some people to hand over data. It's easy. Landlords and lawyers in New York hire detectives to help evict their tenants. Now try to pick the doorlocks or fool with the mail or phones of someone with doormen, receptionists, bodyguards, drivers, personal assitants, and lawyers. It's harder - more expensive. More money - more privacy. Only the rich have real, effective, privacy and secrecy or their activities. Others mostly have laws stating a right to those things. What we need are more laws breaking the privacy/secrecy o of criminals with a lot of money and influence.
Build your own energy sources from scratch. http://otherpower.com/
Exactly, the bill says a protected computer is...
"2)... a computer..."
"B) which is used in interstate or foreign commerce or communications"
This, in my opinion, includes *any* computer connected to the Internet.
That's because every Internet client you ever run is "used in communications." Clients are all communications applications, by definition, and the scope of the proposed monitoring is not limited to just the app, while it is involved in interstate communications, but is instead the entire computer, whenever, if the apps it has loaded are capable of interstate communications.
They call this status "protected," but what they really seem to mean is untrustworthy or suspicious. It's Orwellian doublespeak. This is just "Trustworthy computing," writ far too large for my tastes. We won't buy it and they can't sell it or even make it work right (Vista ME II), so now they're going to try to ram it down our throats via techniques developed by criminals, with the support of laws written by corrupt politicians.
And at that point, you have to start wondering if there's a point in making a distinction between the criminals who invented spyware, and the criminals who want this bill to succeed.
Spying is justifiable, in a court of law, and should only take place with a warrant obtained either in a FISA Court or publicly. Unmonitored computers are no more suspicious than unmonitored people.
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Toro