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NY Stock Exchange Moves To Linux

An anonymous reader writes "Even the old mainframe strongholds, the financial markets, are moving away from big iron. The New York Stock Exchange is one of them, as it's leaving the mainframe for AIX and Linux. They're doing it to save money; it seems that transactions are going to cost half as much on Unix and Linux as they did on the mainframe." The first phase of the transition happened last Monday.

272 comments

  1. Meme wet dream by MrNaz · · Score: 5, Funny

    In Soviet Russia, Linux-running, chair throwing, Beowulf clusters of shark overlords with laserbeams on their heads welcome you, you insensitive clods!

    Cancel or Allow?

    Wait, what are we talking about again?

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    1. Re:Meme wet dream by jollyreaper · · Score: 0, Redundant

      You forgot to say "I know I'll be modded down for this." 9/10.

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    2. Re:Meme wet dream by JonathanR · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      They're frikin laser beams, you insensitive clod!

    3. Re:Meme wet dream by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you forgot that a linux cluster was found on Uranus

    4. Re:Meme wet dream by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Kudo's, dude. That was totally awesome! I was wondering how long you were posting that until it got noticed. Nice job.

    5. Re:Meme wet dream by Drooling+Iguana · · Score: 1

      Wait, what are we talking about again?
      Profit, I think.
      --
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    6. Re:Meme wet dream by fritsd · · Score: 1
      proost to you, too!

      If the NYSE is happy with the transition then it's yet another feather in the .. well where Tux has its other feathers.. of Linux.

      High-profile roll-outs like this do make it more difficult to spread FUD that you shouldn't run Linux in your company because it is shoddy, methinks.

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    7. Re:Meme wet dream by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In Korea only old people have meme wet dreams.

    8. Re:Meme wet dream by stonedcat · · Score: 0

      Step 1: Install Linux
      Step 2: ???
      Step 3: Profit!

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    9. Re:Meme wet dream by Door+in+Cart · · Score: 1

      In Soviet Russia, Linux-running, chair throwing, Beowulf clusters of shark overlords with laserbeams on their heads welcome you, you insensitive clods! Mod parent down! This does not even deserve +1 Funny; it is nothing but -1 Off Topic.
  2. TWNBWFM by dattaway · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    This Will Not Bode Well For Microsoft

    1. Re:TWNBWFM by E+IS+mC(Square) · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Nothing to do with MS in this.

      MS will be affected only when the wall street firms stop using MS Excel, and that may not happen in my lifetime unfortunately.

    2. Re:TWNBWFM by Vellmont · · Score: 3, Insightful


      This Will Not Bode Well For Microsoft

      Why? As far as Microsoft is concerned this is either a non-event (they weren't using microsoft before, they aren't now), or a slight move towards using Microsoft (going from a Mainframe to PCs moves them closer to the potential to use Microsoft software).

      --
      AccountKiller
    3. Re:TWNBWFM by JeffSh · · Score: 1

      what the hell does this have to do with Microsoft? NYSE was never run with Microsoft software. Are you suggesting it doesn't bode well because they didn't choose to move to a Microsoft platform? Not sure I get it.

    4. Re:TWNBWFM by kent_eh · · Score: 1

      As long as MS's stock doesn't mysteriously start a slow, steady decline... Then they'll sue "thoes linux people" for obviously doing "something" with the software.
      or something

      --

      ---
      "I can't complain, but sometimes still do..." Joe Walsh
    5. Re:TWNBWFM by jstretch78 · · Score: 4, Funny

      No, he just wanted to use the word 'bode'.

    6. Re:TWNBWFM by notamisfit · · Score: 1

      Right idea, wrong exchange.

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    7. Re:TWNBWFM by Tuoqui · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Well considering the short message by the parent...

      There has been talk for a long time about how if big companies start switching over to Linux that Microsoft will lose even more market share as other smaller companies get in their mind 'Hey we can do this too and tell Microsoft to go #*&% itself with their licensing fees'.

      Not a huge deal since they did not use any Microsoft products before, but the fact that they chose Linux and AIX over Microsoft just goes to show that the financial sector wants security and reliability (Hey has Microsoft patented daily crashes yet?). I do not blame them for using Linux since uptime on them tend to be very high (sometimes in the order of years) and does not require a reboot every single time you make the tiniest most insignificant patch.

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    8. Re:TWNBWFM by RoboJ1M · · Score: 1

      Why? Now M$ can sue for patent infringement or something...

      J1M.

    9. Re:TWNBWFM by neomunk · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Because it puts (another) large dent in the 'linux isn't ready for prime time' and 'OMGLOL its for lusers in thier mommies basement' and 'it's just not a professional choice' and an EXTREMELY large dent in the 'linux security is unproven in the wild' argument (which should by all rights be a joke by now, and an old joke at that).

      Did I miss any, that's right off the top of my head.

    10. Re:TWNBWFM by clintre · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "
      Not a huge deal since they did not use any Microsoft products before, but the fact that they chose Linux and AIX over Microsoft just goes to show that the financial sector wants security and reliability (Hey has Microsoft patented daily crashes yet?). I do not blame them for using Linux since uptime on them tend to be very high (sometimes in the order of years) and does not require a reboot every single time you make the tiniest most insignificant patch."

      Those comments right there tell me you are a fanboy and do not know much about the M$ side of the shop.

      The company I work for runs over 25,000 servers. We use Windows, Suse, Red Hat, and some AIX. This depends on which works best for the application it is used for. Anyone thinks that doing everything on one platform is best or even possible is not all there.

      Second saying M$ has to reboot for every little patch is not even remotely close anymore, at one time yest. As for crashing, we have over 18,000 Windows boxes (2000, 2003) and they have almost the exact same uptime as the Linux servers. Crashes in Windows again are no where near what they used to be in the pre-2000 servers.

      I am not a M$ fanboy, as I primarily work on both sides of the shop. However people who do not see that both have their places in an IT shop or that Linux is all everything needs to pull their head out of their a$$.

      The biggest problem with M$ is their marketing strategies and bullying tatics.

    11. Re:TWNBWFM by OECD · · Score: 2, Funny

      (Hey has Microsoft patented daily crashes yet?)

      Yes, but purely as a defensive measure.

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    12. Re:TWNBWFM by the_womble · · Score: 3, Insightful

      OK the good PR for Linux might be damaging for MS, but it is a lot more damaging for both mainframe sales and proprietary Unix.

      Incidentally, I used to work for a vendor of trading systems to stock exchanges. They went from being Solaris only, to any Unix or Linux. In practice, everyone goes for either Solaris or Linux. The smaller new clients all go for Linux.

      At the same time they have been getting bigger and bigger clients, so they may now be displacing mainframes as well. My clients were all small, so I am not sure what is happening at that end of the market.

    13. Re:TWNBWFM by PybusJ · · Score: 1

      MS has been doing quite a lot of advertising over here of the use the London Stock Exchange makes of Windows server and MS-SQL:

      http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver/facts/cases tudies/lse.mspx

      So I guess it's swings and roundabouts in the PR game.

  3. That ad about Windows on stock exchange by ookabooka · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Anyone reminded of that ad about the guys printing the newspaper that says they use Windows because its more reliable and stuff? That wasn't for the NYSE was it? I see that ad all the time on Slashdot and roll my eyes every time :-p

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    1. Re:That ad about Windows on stock exchange by Bicx · · Score: 2, Informative

      That was the London Stock Exchange

    2. Re:That ad about Windows on stock exchange by Fifty+Points · · Score: 2, Informative

      That was for the London Stock Exchange

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    3. Re:That ad about Windows on stock exchange by jimstapleton · · Score: 1

      The article made it sound like they were moving from some other form of Unix server. But it didn't actually state *what* server type they were moving from.

      Then again, I typically don't think of MS as a mainframe os provider, usually I think of stuff like VMS, HPUX and AIX.

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    4. Re:That ad about Windows on stock exchange by UbuntuDupe · · Score: 5, Funny

      Windows isn't more reliable ... but the programmers might be a little more sympathetic to user needs ...

      "Okay, so how do I register the exchange of a convertible bond on Linux?"
      "Er... why would you want to do that?"
      "Um ... just trust me on this one ... people like them."
      "Well, what's a convertible bond?"
      "It's where the holder gets a fixed interest payment and then at maturity, has the option to get a fixed amount of cash, or a fixed amount of stock, his choice."
      "That's stupid, you don't need that."
      "Um, look, dude, people trade them, so the software has to handle it."
      "Well, that's really just a bond attached to a stock option. So just enter it that way."
      "Yeah, but in the financial world, it's one transaction."
      "Okay ... so when someone buys one, register an 'option purchase' plus a 'bond purchase' by going under this menu ... then use this 'merge' feature ..."
      "Holy **** dude, this is a common transaction, why do I have do go through all that every time someone buys a convertible bond?"
      "Well, people don't even really buy them that much, do they?"
      "I give up."

    5. Re:That ad about Windows on stock exchange by Kadin2048 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Based on other parts of the article I assumed that it was an IBM mainframe of some sort; at ~1200 MIPS it must have been a fairly big one, although one assumes nothing too recent, or they probably wouldn't be spending a whole lot of money to replace it right now.

      I'd be interested to know if someone has any information or more educated guesses on what they probably have.

      (Humm ... wonder how they'll get rid of it. Everybody keep your eye on eBay!)

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    6. Re:That ad about Windows on stock exchange by Lehk228 · · Score: 4, Funny

      the windows version just assumes if you select cash once to always do cash, unless you edit the registry key autoSelectMaturityAction to false

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    7. Re:That ad about Windows on stock exchange by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      (Humm ... wonder how they'll get rid of it. Everybody keep your eye on eBay!)


      "This auction if for a picture of the NYSE server. The server in the photo works great and contains SS & routing #'s actually worth stealing. Let the bidding begin and GOOD LUCK!"
    8. Re:That ad about Windows on stock exchange by jimstapleton · · Score: 1

      The disks I can probably tell you

      secure whole-disk wipe applications + band saw.

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    9. Re:That ad about Windows on stock exchange by mOdQuArK! · · Score: 1

      *rolls eyes*

      Seems like you don't meet very many good programmers.

      Most of the good programmers I've met would've just treated it as a new feature request & figured out a way to make it easy for their customer to do all their "common" transactions.

      In the process, they (the developer) would've tried to learn as much as they could about the requirements of their customer & would probably end up providing functionality for the customer that the customer didn't realise was possible with this new systme.

      That's the kind of thing that you do when your business model is writing software as a service, and you're trying to make a customer happy so they'll come back to you the next time they need help.

    10. Re:That ad about Windows on stock exchange by Citizen+of+Earth · · Score: 1

      I assumed that it was an IBM mainframe of some sort; at ~1200 MIPS it must have been a fairly big one

      I dunno. A fairly moderate Linux server here at the office that cost about $5K several months ago is 16,000 bogomips.

    11. Re:That ad about Windows on stock exchange by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2, Informative

      TFA said 1600MIPS in the first line. Note that they are moving from an old IBM mainframe to AIX on P-series and Linux on HP x86 machines. AIX on P-series is a serious platform, and it's being sold by IBM as a mainframe replacement.

      What TFA didn't say was how much was moving to AIX and how much to Linux. I wouldn't be surprised if the move is mostly to AIX, since moving from one IBM big iron system to another is well supported.

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    12. Re:That ad about Windows on stock exchange by Nutria · · Score: 1
      16,000 bogomips.

      What makes you think that bogomips and mainframe MIPS are, in any way, comparable?

      --
      "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
    13. Re:That ad about Windows on stock exchange by Nutria · · Score: 1
      What TFA didn't say was how much was moving to AIX and how much to Linux.

      Sure it did.

      The AIX platform executes the application of the recompiled code while the Linux boxes handles FTP transfers on the front end.
      --
      "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
    14. Re:That ad about Windows on stock exchange by redcane · · Score: 1

      Well, both are based on the concept of "Millions of Instructions Per Second", but Bogomips at least recognises that disparities in the actual amount of information processing done in an instruction makes MIPS an arbitrary measure anyway. I'm not sure how you could use it as a real "apples to apples" comparison in any case...

    15. Re:That ad about Windows on stock exchange by inflex · · Score: 1

      Oh damn, that made me laugh out loud. Bravo, most certainly a very common conversation.

      (I'm a software developer and yet it still humored me).

    16. Re:That ad about Windows on stock exchange by Nutria · · Score: 1
      Bogomips at least recognises that disparities in the actual amount of information processing done in an instruction makes MIPS an arbitrary measure anyway.

      But the IBM mainframe has a fixed "base" instruction set, like the x86.

      So while comparing mainframe MIPS to SPARC MIPS is obviously bogus, comparing a 4381 to a z/900 has merit.

      --
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  4. Moves away from big iron is more accurate by Timesprout · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The bulk of the savings seem to be coming from reduced hardware and maintenance costs by getting rid of the mainframe and the savings are the reason they are doing it.

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    1. Re:Moves away from big iron is more accurate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Somewhere out there is a Michael Douglas-character in white shortsleeves and tie, stuck in traffic caused by a road repair crew. He's steaming in a car bearing the license plate DFENS, while slowly his world crumbles around him...

    2. Re:Moves away from big iron is more accurate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Quite correct, the funny thing is that Euronext Liffe has been doing a much more significant move towards Linux from Solaris. And guess what it had nothing to do with licencing, it had mostly to do with he fact that they could run on HP kit that was more bangs for the buck...

      Anyway alwais funny to see how /. can comment on IT in the financial world without having any clue what so ever...

  5. Really? The NYSE? by name*censored* · · Score: 5, Funny
    >>They're doing it to save money

    Really? The NYSE aren't doing it purely support the FOSS community? Dang, and I thought I knew the NYSE better than that..
    --
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    1. Re:Really? The NYSE? by rubycodez · · Score: 1

      well, Stallman told them they'd save money, and following Stallman is the same thing

    2. Re:Really? The NYSE? by onescomplement · · Score: 1


      This is an ancillary system to the main trading system. The system that does real-time trading is still Tandem iron and likely will always be. Nothing else is as reliable and scalable, and nothing else will run their custom code.

  6. hmm by nomadic · · Score: 4, Interesting

    What about stability issues? I'd think that these machines would have to be a little bit more robust than linux is capable of being at the moment.

    1. Re:hmm by jimstapleton · · Score: 0

      they are moving to Linux AND AIX according to TFA, I suspect the AIX might be fore the stability part, though I don't know. As much as I may hate it for other reasons, Linux can be pretty stable with the right hardware and configuration - I'll certainly give it that.

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    2. Re:hmm by xzvf · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That's a good question, but on Wall Street, speed and latentcy are becoming more importantant factors than stabiltiy. That's the reason why most brokerages locate their primary data center in Manhatten, or co-locate with the NYSE. A crash that effects everybody equally is preferable to odd processing delays. No data is better than slow data is an old mantra in the trading feild, and even more important when trading is triggered electronically and milliseconds count.

    3. Re:hmm by Lehk228 · · Score: 1

      what stability issues?

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    4. Re:hmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      The ones that fanbois ignore but those who are serious about computing have to worry about and deal with.

    5. Re:hmm by Doctor+Crumb · · Score: 1

      Such as?

    6. Re:hmm by archen · · Score: 1

      He's probably thinking someone would be insane enough to run a 2.6 kernel and such a critical task. Linux is only truly stable when running 2.4 as things currently stand.

    7. Re:hmm by chrb · · Score: 1

      > What about stability issues? I'd think that these machines would have to be a little bit more robust than linux is capable of being at the moment.

      Firstly, Linux running on good hardware is about as robust as it gets (unless you develop software for NASA or something). You don't think Linux on an IBM mainframe with gold support would be stable?

      Secondly, stability can be provided at several levels. Hardware fails, but a hot running HA backup can recover in a few hundred mS. Software can time-out and retransmit requests. More importantly, all of this can be completely transparent to the layers above, including end users. Resilience is about having multiple levels of failover, and for this Linux is fine. When was the last time Google's cluster failed?

    8. Re:hmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When was the last time google said it didnt fail?

    9. Re:hmm by TheLink · · Score: 1

      Huh, it's just the NYSE. The last I checked it doesn't even run 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. The fact that they ran on IBM mainframes already shows to me that they can cope with scheduled downtime.

      You can fix stuff AFTER trading hours. So even Windows on decent x86 servers would be OK.

      If you have stuff that MUST run ALL the time with absolute minimal downtime (including even scheduled downtime) then that's a different ballgame.

      That'll be stuff like VMS clustering or Tandem and then you're talking about stuff with uptimes of _decades_. You can take down a node, and the apps just run slower. There have been people who have moved VMS clusters to different locations without downtime - move nodes to the new location while keeping nodes at the old location up.

      x86 and Linux will probably reinvent all that eventually, but even then it'll probably still be a lot flakier for the first few years.

      --
    10. Re:hmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Huh, it's just the NYSE. The last I checked it doesn't even run 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. The fact that they ran on IBM mainframes already shows to me that they can cope with scheduled downtime.
      Actually yhe NYSE does support after hours trading. Pretty much everyone does nowadays. This would be Sunday - Thursday. Also they do support electronic trading. With electronic trading it is all about volume, they don't have the tolerance for outtages that a purely voice-based market would. Going down for even 10 minutes can cost a huge amount of money when dealing with electronic trading.

    11. Re:hmm by twistedcubic · · Score: 1

      As if?

    12. Re:hmm by SuseLover · · Score: 1

      What is all this "stability" crap? I admin over 100 linux systems in a cluster and they hardly EVER go down on their own. The only thing that crashes our systems are the EDA tools that run the systems out of memory and swap. Other than rogue large footprint apps that would crash any system, ours stay up for at least 6 months at a time without a reboot (most stay up continuously, record uptime in our cluster is 457 days so far).

      In my little world Linux is more robust/stable than any other OS except for Solaris.

    13. Re:hmm by nomadic · · Score: 1

      What is all this "stability" crap? I admin over 100 linux systems in a cluster and they hardly EVER go down on their own. The only thing that crashes our systems are the EDA tools that run the systems out of memory and swap. Other than rogue large footprint apps that would crash any system, ours stay up for at least 6 months at a time without a reboot (most stay up continuously, record uptime in our cluster is 457 days so far).

      "hardly EVER" isn't good enough for some environments.

      In my little world Linux is more robust/stable than any other OS except for Solaris.

      Alright, perfect example of what I'm saying. Solaris is more stable. Why not go with Solaris then?

      And does your little world include AIX or HP-UX or z/OS or FreeBSD or any of a number of other commercial operating systems?

    14. Re:hmm by SuseLover · · Score: 1

      The only systems that ever crash are the ones running unstable apps. My CUPS/NIS/LDAP server has never gone down on it's own. In my experience, Linux is at least as stable as any other OS (I admin Solaris, HP-UX 11.11, RHEL3, and windows). Except for Solaris, RHEL is the most stable OS we have running here.

    15. Re:hmm by Nutria · · Score: 1
      The only thing that crashes our systems are the EDA tools that run the systems out of memory and swap.

      Then why aren't you adding more swap files?

      If these are 32 bit systems, each process can only have 3GB of address space, so if you have 4GB of swap then the process will run out of memory before the system does.

      --
      "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
    16. Re:hmm by dolmen.fr · · Score: 1

      Because a slow machine is worse than a machine down when you have a good failover system. Especially on stock markets.

    17. Re:hmm by minus9 · · Score: 1

      # w
      14:09:37 up 519 days, 1:51, 1 user, load average: 0.94, 1.09, 1.09

      # uname -r
      2.6.9-22.0.1.106.unsupportedsmp

      That was when it was switched on.

      Of course if it was something critical it would be configured for redundant failover.

  7. Begin the invasion by Spookticus · · Score: 4, Funny

    Thats one small step for penguins, one giant leap for penguin kind. Now I can invest in Linux companies while I am doing it on a Linux machine and the transaction being processed by Linux :)

    1. Re:Begin the invasion by smithbp · · Score: 1

      There still might be something else thrown in the middle there, from your brokerage firm. These servers are simply going to be responsible for the transactions on the exchange themselves.

    2. Re:Begin the invasion by dolmen.fr · · Score: 1

      If you really want that, NYSE is not yet ready. RTFA.
      But if you invest in Europe, on an Euronext market (Paris, Brussells, Amsterdam, Lisbon), orders are already matching on Linux.

  8. what was it on before? by brunascle · · Score: 3, Interesting

    ctrl-f tells me they didnt mention microsoft or windows. if it wasnt on *nix before, what was it on?

    1. Re:what was it on before? by Major+Blud · · Score: 0

      Since it was most an IBM mainframe, most likely z/OS. Most discussion on here seems to focus on how this is bad for MS. The real loser in this is IBM. It proves that more enterprises are sick of paying for every single transaction that is run on the system, when multiple x86 servers can produce comparable performance without a transaction fee.

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    2. Re:what was it on before? by mchinand · · Score: 3, Informative

      Here are some of IBM's non-Unix mainframe OSs. http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/z/os/. They could be using some other vendor as well.

    3. Re:what was it on before? by nomadic · · Score: 1

      ctrl-f tells me they didnt mention microsoft or windows. if it wasnt on *nix before, what was it on?

      Presumably a mainframe operating system. z/OS probably.

    4. Re:what was it on before? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Are you serious? Read the article: "The New York Stock Exchange (NYSE) is migrating off a 1,600 millions of instructions per second (MIPS) mainframe to IBM System p servers running AIX and x86 Hewlett-Packard Co. (HP) servers running Linux"

      They're still using IBM servers and IBM's Unix (AIX) along with HP servers running Linux. This is not a loss by any means, there will be fresh new maintenance contracts for IBM plus the cost of the servers and training of employees on AIX.

    5. Re:what was it on before? by Major+Blud · · Score: 0, Insightful

      True, but I'm sure that sort of contract is significantly cheaper than if they had gone with a new mainframe contract simpley because of the transaction fees. Also, this basically makes IBM a generic hardware provider; the NYSE could *likely* transfer these apps from AIX on Power to Linux on x86 if they were so inclined. Not trying to troll, you do bring up a valid point.

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    6. Re:what was it on before? by Spinlock_1977 · · Score: 1

      I had a job interview down at nyse about six years ago (and I'm glad I didn't get it - someone blew up the two towers next door about six months later). Part of their infrustructure is on OpenVMS/C++. I know these boxes were doing something highly critical, but I don't know exactly what. Since the stories aren't mentioning replacing these OpenVMS boxes, I would assume that some of the critical processing is still happening on these systems.

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    7. Re:what was it on before? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      and I'm glad I didn't get it - someone blew up the two towers next door about six months later
      you're kidding. was anybody hurt?

      i'm going to hell
    8. Re:what was it on before? by dknj · · Score: 2, Informative

      plus the cost of the servers and training of employees on AIX.

      hint: get your aix cert and you will be in high demand for at least the next decade. NYSE is not the only place looking for experienced AIX admins, most major financial companies have a few AIX systems sitting in their dungeon. if you have experience, you will make a pretty penny.

      the last three places i worked at that had AIX had a constant theme; managers were looking for a GOOD AIX admin and were willing to pay well into 6 figures for it. contrast to linux/solaris admin jobs that are barely crossing $100k anymore.

      disclaimer: i live in a major metropolitan area

    9. Re:what was it on before? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The NYSE and SIAC have many , many systems and internal systems to communicate to those systems. It sounds to me like the systems that were replaced were those that do the backend processing rather than the systems that
      operate the dayt to day trading.

    10. Re:what was it on before? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    11. Re:what was it on before? by morcego · · Score: 1

      My guess would be something like VM/SP on a zSeries-like server (probably older than the zSeries name brand).

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      morcego
    12. Re:what was it on before? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are absolutely correct. Actual day-to-day trading is handled by distributed HP NonStop clusters. Surveillance, statistics, and some trading access systems run on mid-range HP-9000 servers running HP-UX 11i. Computerized high-speed trading links to the large brokerages are handled on Linux servers. More Linux is being rolled out for C+C (mercifully replacing aging HP-UX ignites). If theres AIX to be found anywhere at SIAC, its not handling trades.

  9. Transactions cost less by half ? by foniksonik · · Score: 0

    SO my TDAmeritrade account will now only charge me $4.99 per transaction? What are you trying to say....

    --
    A fool throws a stone into a well and a thousand sages can not remove it.
    1. Re:Transactions cost less by half ? by PygmySurfer · · Score: 1

      Apparently you have the mistaken impression that they want to pass this cost savings on to the customer.

    2. Re:Transactions cost less by half ? by buraianto · · Score: 1

      Apparently you have the mistaken impression that TDAmeritrade is the New York Stock Exchange.

  10. Licensing Fees by Ngarrang · · Score: 4, Insightful

    In my brief experience with an IBM AS/400 (before it was renamed), it seemed like my old company was paying as much annual licensing and support fees as the system originally cost. The software we ran got more expensive as the system went faster. I never quite understand that pricing scheme, since the software didn't actually do anything NEW.

    Good move for the NYSE.

    --
    Bearded Dragon
    1. Re:Licensing Fees by Clover_Kicker · · Score: 4, Interesting

      IBM will support your old hardware almost forever.

      They don't enjoy it, though - they have to stock a zillion old parts for a zillion old architectures, they have to train new guys on stuff that was obsolete before they got out of diapers.

      They gradually crank up maintenance fees to "encourage" you to upgrade to new kit that is easier to support.

    2. Re:Licensing Fees by grub · · Score: 2, Funny


      The software we ran got more expensive as the system went faster. I never quite understand that pricing scheme, since the software didn't actually do anything NEW.

      You bought the more expensive IBM OSs, those ones have less NOPs compiled in.

      --
      Trolling is a art,
    3. Re:Licensing Fees by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 1

      The 400's pricing is very artificial (just like Vista's new licensing restrictions on virtualization). It's about money- not about any underling increase in costs on IBM's part.

      The 400's reliability however-- is very real. If I ever have a large enough system that has to "just work", it goes on the 400. Stuff that only has to work 99% of the time- that's okay for PC's.

      However, IBM is decimating their own ranks by offshoring and outsourcing their AS/400 customers. It earns them some money now for service contracts but it raises the cost of every other customer owning an AS/400 because fewer and fewer people want to work on them. IBM basically reduced our 400 employees from about 150 to 2 by taking over running our stuff. The results have been poor so far. A lot of pissed off customers because the 400's are not getting personal attention but instead getting 1/70th of one of IBM's operators (who is really relying on Patrol to send a warning message). I mean- why work on a 400 when IBM is going to come after your job? Focus your efforts on jobs where the vendor isn't actively trying to reallocate you to the curb.

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    4. Re:Licensing Fees by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's what Sabre is doing with their airline reservation and ticketing system. Keeping those huge IBM mainframes around is extremely expensive.

    5. Re:Licensing Fees by Nutria · · Score: 1
      They don't enjoy it, though - they have to stock a zillion old parts for a zillion old architectures, they have to train new guys on stuff that was obsolete before they got out of diapers.

      They gradually crank up maintenance fees to "encourage" you to upgrade to new kit that is easier to support.


      Increased maintenance fees is exactly why our company replaces it's mainframe every few years.

      --
      "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
    6. Re:Licensing Fees by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah support it. Like the DDR Ram I bought for our 4 year old Xseries(346 model I believe). Anyways, would you believe 2 GB of RAM from IBM was 1600, where as from another vendor (Kingston) was 400. They will support it. You just have to lease the shelf for 4 years, so they can recoup the cost of the 50 other dimms on the shelf they do not sell. No biggy.

    7. Re:Licensing Fees by Clover_Kicker · · Score: 1

      Well, IBM has rarely been accused of running a charity :)

  11. NY Stock Exchange Moves To Linux by robably · · Score: 4, Funny

    In case anyone needs to look it up, Linux is in Eastern Europe between Serbia and Romania.

    Happy to help.

    1. Re:NY Stock Exchange Moves To Linux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      dang! you missed the point! I always thought it was somewhere between Lithuania & Bordeaux!

    2. Re:NY Stock Exchange Moves To Linux by badc0ffee · · Score: 1

      Can you be a little more specific? I went to Google maps and got 69,352 hits. Seems to me that it is everywhere, not just Eastern Europe.

      --
      1011 1010 1101 1100 0000 1111 1111 1110 1110
    3. Re:NY Stock Exchange Moves To Linux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But it's in between "lame" and "loser" in the dictionary.

    4. Re:NY Stock Exchange Moves To Linux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I always thought it was somewhere between Lithuania & Bordeaux! You are right. NYSE just merged with Euronext, which is based in Paris.
  12. Career Opportunity by Black-Man · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I think this is only the beginning of large migrations. To have both 3270 and Linux skills (along w/ DB2) right now would be a killer skills combo.

    1. Re:Career Opportunity by ErroneousBee · · Score: 1

      Not really.

      Other zOS skills are more useful, particularly the Sysprogging skills like JCL, console commands, rexx, TSO and ISPF.

      The Linux skills to have in this area are the System Admin ones like bash scripting, setting up Apache and other server stuff, using ssh, etc.

      --
      **TODO** Steal someone elses sig.
    2. Re:Career Opportunity by fritsd · · Score: 1

      Doesn't the JCL give you belly-ache? I have SUCH bad memories of that language.

      --
      To be, or not to be: isn't that quite logical, Slashdot Beta?
    3. Re:Career Opportunity by ErroneousBee · · Score: 1

      Not really. Its not brilliant, but its no worse that other kludged together monstrosities like perl or XSL.

      Add in the fact that there is no direct equivalent to control the running of programs in *nix and windows, and JCL (plus JES and the spool) seems far preferable to kludging cron and bash scripts together to get regular tasks going with the output saved on a spool for review or deletion.

      --
      **TODO** Steal someone elses sig.
  13. Wonder if someone really dropped the ball. by Kadin2048 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Well, the migration strategy seems interesting, although not especially surprising; they've eschewed emulation strategies that might incur a performance penalty in favor of some company that actually recompiles the old COBOL and IBM JCL code for modern architectures and does a lot of in-house QA (and, one assumes, has really good support...). They're using smaller IBM AIX servers to actually run the code in the new system, with the HP Linux machines basically doing all the I/O and general feeding of data.

    I'm a little surprised that IBM didn't manage to sell them on a new mainframe, or at least on its own clustered solution; or that they didn't ditch IBM completely and go with somebody else (what I'd suspect if somehow someone at IBM had really stepped on the wrong foot).

    There's not a whole lot of information in TFA about their old system, which actually sounds like it must be fairly neat; it's only described as a "1,600 MIPS mainframe" and then from context it's clear that it's an IBM of some sort. Another surprising thing is that they complain that the software licenses for it, among other things, are prohibitively expensive -- you'd think that IBM, in danger of losing a mainframe customer completely to commodity kit, would cut them some sort of a cheap-or-free deal on the software just to keep them around and on the support contracts. (I really gotta wonder if someone really boned this up; I mean, if you can't keep a mainframe contract at a place like the NYSE, really, what are you doing?)

    --
    "Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
    1. Re:Wonder if someone really dropped the ball. by metamatic · · Score: 1

      I'm a little surprised that IBM didn't manage to sell them on a new mainframe, or at least on its own clustered solution; or that they didn't ditch IBM completely and go with somebody else (what I'd suspect if somehow someone at IBM had really stepped on the wrong foot).

      Indeed. It's a bit of a strange migration. To pick another detail, why are they switching system management software at the same time? The Tivoli software they were using will manage Linux and AIX just as well as it manages mainframes. Throwing an extra software migration in to the mix just adds risk, surely?

      (Opinions mine, not IBM's.)

      --
      GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
    2. Re:Wonder if someone really dropped the ball. by livewirevoodoo · · Score: 1

      Well, they did mention that they had been using two systems and now they're able to consolidate all of their systems to the one management software. I'd say that's probably a bit better than having to hack the two to be able to communicate with each other that they were doing before, plus having only one system to learn and train for.

      --
      If its stupid but it works, its not stupid.
    3. Re:Wonder if someone really dropped the ball. by jbohumil · · Score: 1

      Often it is the cost of the third party software licenses (Computer Associates) that kill you on the Z/OS platform. They charge you by the MIPS, so as you grow and need a faster machine, CA is waiting there to hit you big time. It's a significant problem and one that IBM needs to remedy by bringing better alternatives to the Z/OS platform which aren't so cost prohibitive.

    4. Re:Wonder if someone really dropped the ball. by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      I also have to wonder why HP servers running Linux? IBM still has X86 servers. One vender for all the hardware should have made life simpler for them. Plus I would think IBM would have given them a deal better deal with more boxes.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    5. Re:Wonder if someone really dropped the ball. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Add to that the fact that they are switching to Tidal Scheduler and I get really confused.

      Tidal scheduler is far and away the biggest steaming turd o' software I've ever used in my life.

    6. Re:Wonder if someone really dropped the ball. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is cheap and the GUI is much prettier compared to IBM Tivoli Workload Scheduler. I have to agree with you though; I've migrated a few clients from Tidal to IBM Tivoli Workload Scheduler (TWS) and they had some, um, choice words about their experience with Tidal.

    7. Re:Wonder if someone really dropped the ball. by Bearhouse · · Score: 1

      Well, it's a tough call for IBM. I've been there. On the one hand, you're trying to keep the vastly profitable mainframe client, and on the other you know damn well that other solutions exist that may be different, but just as workable and a whole lot cheaper.

      Back in the old days, when IBM did not have a really developed software (apart from OS) and consulting offering, it was more clear-cut. You'd try and keep the customer at (nearly) any cost - but not price. It was a lot easier, since much of the competition had less of a track record, and they had less success stories. Also, in these days of more open decision-making, some of the tactics used in the past are no longer viable.

      I'm guessing that IBM's services / consultings guys are really fuming on this one - they probably could have got the migration business, but lost out to the 'big iron' boys who wanted to try & keep the client...still, as a consolaion they got the AIX boxes.

  14. umm, not quite... by jimstapleton · · Score: 2, Funny

    "Okay ... so when someone buys one, register an 'option purchase' plus a 'bond purchase' by going under this menu ... then use this 'merge' feature ..."

    should be

    "Okay ... so when someone buys one, register an 'option purchase' plus a 'bond purchase' by piping these commands together on the command line... then use this 'merge' feature ..."

    OK, yeah, that's a decade ago, but it still seemed funny to me.

    --
    34486853790
    Connection too slow for X forwarding? Try "ssh -CX user@host"
  15. quick by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Short msft I guess?

  16. In News Yet To Be Released News by packetmon · · Score: 3, Funny

    Microsoft says New York Stock Exchange infringes on Microsoft's patent "Letter C in System". Microsoft broad patent invoking the use of the letter C on a file system has some industry experts worried. "We were completely unaware that Microsoft had the rights to the letter c on any operating system. This is going to cost us enormously. We thought we would save twice as much money, but with this frivolous lawsuit pending, we stand to lose four times as much" stated an anonymous expert at the NYSE." Microsoft's shared plummeted after an irrate Linux developer injected a logicbomb code on NYSE servers.

    1. Re:In News Yet To Be Released News by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So why not just round to the nearest dollar?

  17. The savings comparison seems misleading by Ace905 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The article makes it sound like transactions are on a cost-per basis, "[Francis Feldman] estimates the move will halve the cost of transactions" -- does that make any sense?

    I think the author of the article got into a tangent with him about how many transactions they do, and what their operating costs are and then incorrectly made the correlation that there is a cost-per-transaction from a computing stand-point. That can't be true. You don't insert fifties into the A: drive.

    Look at it this way: If they make the big switch, and all of a sudden they can handle double-the-transactions per day - that would halve the cost of transactions. Only there's not going to all of a sudden be double-the-transactions. They're still working with the same number of transactions.

    If they halve their staff, and they do the same number of transactions than that halves their costs. But what if tuesday is a slow day, and they only do 60% of their normal business? They're still paying for all the staff, electricity and third party support.

    Am I wrong, or is it unlikely they can correlate a cost per transaction in this case?

    ---
    This is completely free.

    --

    Ace
    1. Re:The savings comparison seems misleading by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      I think the author of the article got into a tangent with him about how many transactions they do, and what their operating costs are and then incorrectly made the correlation that there is a cost-per-transaction from a computing stand-point. That can't be true. You don't insert fifties into the A: drive.

      You're taking that way too literally. They're currently spending $X on managing transactions; the new system is projected to cost $X/2. The article doesn't have the precise cost-per-transaction details you're claiming are there.

    2. Re:The savings comparison seems misleading by aussie_a · · Score: 1

      You don't insert fifties into the A: drive. Huh. So that's why my computer keeps breaking down.
    3. Re:The savings comparison seems misleading by Ace905 · · Score: 1

      I'm just mentioning those two scenarios so that nobody responds with them calling me an idiot. The bottom line is (if I'm correct) you can't say you're halving the cost per transaction. That would be like saying you're doubling your output. Either phrase is misleading to a potential investor.

      And while it's 'just semantics', in a financial article it's sort of the entire point.

      --

      Ace
    4. Re:The savings comparison seems misleading by y86 · · Score: 0

      First let me tell you I work at a shop that runs an IBM mainframe. We pay extra based on CPU utilization. So if your a little busier one day versus the other, you pay extra. In fact we spend hours and hours trying to make our Jobs run faster and lower the MF CPU and offload CPU usage to distributed platforms.

      think the author of the article got into a tangent with him about how many transactions they do, and what their operating costs are and then incorrectly made the correlation that there is a cost-per-transaction from a computing stand-point. That can't be true. You don't insert fifties into the A: drive. -- Like I said, they pay per CPU cycle and based on a sliding scale of % utilized. Distributed systems like AIX or LINUX don't have this cost.

      Look at it this way: If they make the big switch, and all of a sudden they can handle double-the-transactions per day - that would halve the cost of transactions. Only there's not going to all of a sudden be double-the-transactions. They're still working with the same number of transactions. -- Not paying per cycle to IBM for licensing will decrease costs substantially.

    5. Re:The savings comparison seems misleading by Ace905 · · Score: 1

      Thank you.

      I thought maybe the article was correct, but I didn't understand how it could be.

      ---
      incorrect!

      --

      Ace
    6. Re:The savings comparison seems misleading by SirKron · · Score: 1

      Have you ever purchased stocks? They charge by trasactions and therefore they want to know their cost per trasaction so they know their their profit. If you had a factory and you made widgets, wouldn't you want to know your cost per widget? And yes, you are right, there are many factors that can skew your cost per transaction. But in the end all they want is to know if they are making a profit and where to cut costs to make a bigger profit.

    7. Re:The savings comparison seems misleading by Prof.Phreak · · Score: 1

      Only there's not going to all of a sudden be double-the-transactions. They're still working with the same number of transactions.

      Problem is, transactions are following same exponential growth pattern as... CPU speed... but faster.

      --

      "If anything can go wrong, it will." - Murphy

    8. Re:The savings comparison seems misleading by miro+f · · Score: 1

      if the number of transactions doubld, you would need more infrastructure to deal with hit

      hence a correlation

      --
      being vague is almost as cool as doing that other thing...
    9. Re:The savings comparison seems misleading by y86 · · Score: 0

      IBM licensing is evil............. They sell you this amazing computer with 16 processor boards but only turn on 4... the other 12 sit there unused when the mainframe is running @ 95%. IBM will unlock the boards for another so many thousand (not sure on the numbers but it's 5 digits)...................how terrible is that?!

    10. Re:The savings comparison seems misleading by Ace905 · · Score: 1

      Well, a couple of people have explained why there might be a legitimate cost-per-transaction, but when it comes to the example of the factory - yes I'm sure someone would want to know their cost per widget. And to figure that out, they wouldn't include the price of the sign they have mounted outside.

      Cost per widget should scale, at least to some degree. If you're making 9000 at a cost of $1 each, and 10,000 still costs you $9000 - your cost per widget math seems redundant and useless.

      --

      Ace
    11. Re:The savings comparison seems misleading by Ace905 · · Score: 1

      That is completely incorrect. Keeping in mind, there have been responses explaining why there would be a 'cost per transaction' - so I was wrong.

      But saying there's a correlation between infrastructure and doubling of transactions is incorrect. If you run two programs on windows, does your cost per program go up? Would you ever bother figuring out what your cost per cpu cycle was on a home computer?

      There's a correlation, it just happens to be completely useless.

      --

      Ace
    12. Re:The savings comparison seems misleading by Hemogoblin · · Score: 1

      Well, it sounds like the "transaction cost" is actually the unit fixed cost of their hardware. That is, take the budged total fixed cost you spent on servers and divide by the budgeted number of transactions. Add this to your other unit costs and this is how much you'll charge for each customer's transaction. Now if you buy faster and cheaper servers, and if you can do the same number of transactions at a cheaper total cost, your unit transaction cost is going to be cheaper.

      An alternative to the above is the possibility that the NYSE pays per CPU cycle, ie some sort of on-demand computing thing. I don't know how those agreements work.

    13. Re:The savings comparison seems misleading by coredog64 · · Score: 1

      How is this parent post not modded "+5 insightful" yet? I'd add the note that our mainframe costs are based on CPU usage, but we get a break during off-peak hours. Unfortunately, everybody tries to run their stuff off-peak and then it's all late :(

    14. Re:The savings comparison seems misleading by miro+f · · Score: 1

      of course it doesn't, because your home PC has more than enough power to run 2 applications.

      When you run 200,000 applications, or 400,000 applications, you will notice a difference.

      --
      being vague is almost as cool as doing that other thing...
  18. all those reports... by Grinin · · Score: 1

    Its funny because about a month ago I recall still seeing Microsoft ads that say "NY Stock Exchange" powered by MS SQL Server. "Stock Exchange saves money and gains stability with MS blah blah blah"

    1. Re:all those reports... by phrostie · · Score: 1

      i'll bet that is one of those MS patents!

      they patented using their software for use on the NY Stock exchange!

    2. Re:all those reports... by KingJ · · Score: 1

      Would be even funnier if those adverts actually did mention the NY Stock Exchange, as opposed to the London stock exchange which featured in the ad.

      --
      I rent game servers, see my homepage for more information
  19. NASDAQ by rlp · · Score: 3, Informative

    The NASDAQ also uses Unix. They use fault-tolerant Unix boxes from HP (formerly Tandem).

    --
    [Insert pithy quote here]
    1. Re:NASDAQ by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "The NASDAQ also uses Unix. They use fault-tolerant Unix boxes from HP (formerly Tandem)." - by rlp (11898) on Thursday May 17, @10:22AM (#19161347)

      Untrue: NASDAQ is run by Windows Server 2003 using failover clusters + SQLServer 2005, ( & doubtless IIS 6.x as a webserver when/if needed)...

      APK

  20. To quote Keanu Reeves, "Whoa" by smooth+wombat · · Score: 4, Interesting
    To test Clerity, Feldman and his team collected some batch and CICS application code, sent it to Clerity and said he would be at Clerity's development center in 24 hours to see the results. Clerity passed.


    Now that's service. I realize it's only compiling one code into another form but being able to take the code, compile it into what you need AND still have it work correctly in a 24 hour period is no easy feat.

    If nothing else, other firms will look at this migration to an aix/linux platform and see the cost benefits of doing so. After all, if the NYSE has done it, it can't be a bad thing.

    --
    We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
  21. Will They be Passing Those Savings On? by mpapet · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Would anyone be surprised if the exchange captured most of those cost savings for themselves?

    I think another post is onto something:
    1. IBM screwed up the relationship so badly that the NYSE is walking away.
    2. IBM has some other, greater, revenue opportunity.
    3. Something is going on inside IBM where the sales people can steal each other's customers.

    --
    http://www.maxineudall.com/2010/02/should-economists-be-sued-for-malpractice.html
    1. Re:Will They be Passing Those Savings On? by arniepoo · · Score: 1

      1. IBM screwed up the relationship so badly that the NYSE is walking away.

      IBM supply AIX and the hardware it runs on so the NYSE isn't walking away from anything

      2. IBM has some other, greater, revenue opportunity.

      As a previous poster pointed out it is in IBMs best interest to upgrade it's customers to current hardware and cut down on maintenance costs on obselete hardware

      Arnie

    2. Re:Will They be Passing Those Savings On? by Hemogoblin · · Score: 1

      Buying faster and cheaper hardware will increase the exchange's profit margin, which will give them the opportunity to pass on the cost savings. If competition exists, they'll be able to lower their prices if necessary. I don't think competition is that fierce, so this will probably just result in a profit increase.

    3. Re:Will They be Passing Those Savings On? by jimicus · · Score: 1

      Would anyone be surprised if the exchange captured most of those cost savings for themselves?

      I would be. They're almost certainly migrating from IBM mainframes, and they're migrating most of the really important bits to AIX on pSeries.

      IBM have been managing transitions like this for years. It's some of their bread and butter work with large financial organisations, and the cost of the consultancy to do it will probably pay for itself in a couple of years' with the support contract becoming cheaper.

  22. Thin on details - Unikix has been around time by gelfling · · Score: 1

    Unikix has been around since the early 90's. Moving gobs of COBOL II, JCL, and JES2/3 over has been done and redone. The real challenge is what to do with CICS? CICS code can be pretty damn hard to port with the same performance criteria. A well built CICS system can approach an RTOS in real time transaction performance. But the architectural complexity is a hard problem to solve in another system architecture. For instance one way to get CICS to fly is to run it as a continuous communications task in its own LPAR. I don't know how you do that in AIX which tends to be more queue driven. But maybe they solved that problem.

    And for you who have a question about AIX, that's an IBM product too so are the servers it runs on. So from a cost perspective they're still paying IBM either way. I suspect also that they're running a UDB/DB2 back end database already which is why they're moving to AIX - DB2.

    1. Re:Thin on details - Unikix has been around time by ISoldat53 · · Score: 1

      Buzzword bingo anybody?

    2. Re:Thin on details - Unikix has been around time by lp_bugman · · Score: 1

      CICS is for batch processing. There are comercial CICS emulators.

      --
      BSD licensed software can't be stolen....
    3. Re:Thin on details - Unikix has been around time by gelfling · · Score: 1

      CICS is OLTP (online transaction processing), JCL is batch control (Job Control Lang), LPAR is logical partition, the ability to slice up one OS into multiple independent instances, JES2/3 is the Job entry system, the application management side of systems programming, UDB/DB2 is DB2, an RDBMS (relational database management system).

      There are CICS that run native on AIX. I've never worked with one. But I have worked with Command ASM on CICS for special high speed performance considerations.

    4. Re:Thin on details - Unikix has been around time by Richard+Steiner · · Score: 1

      It's my understanding that CICS transaction processing on an IBM mainframe is roughly analogous to TIP/HVTIP transaction processing on a Unisys mainframe. The whole idea of each transaction (assuming a conversation is not being used) is to get in quickly, get out quickly, and leave no residuals when done. Typical actions are:

          * Display a fill-in entry mask (screen) for subsequent data entry and exit.

          * Accept a filled-in entry mask containing data, validate and store it, and exit.

          * Display a filled-in display mask containing the data I just saved and exit.

      Kinda like the web on a green screen, but with fast (often 10 millisecond) response times. :-)

      The nice thing about intelligent terminals like 3270 and UTS terminals is that the entering/editing of the data on the screen is handled by the terminal, not the mainframe, and requires no network activity. Sophisticated HVTIP apps using DPS or other methods of generating UTS FCCs on the screen can enforce things like numeric/alpha and field justification automatically as part of that process, and the terminal can be configured to only send those parts of the screen that have changed since the last screen transmision (again saving LAN bandwidth).

      I wish the UNIX world had a better analog. Most of the UNIX people I know seem to want to through relational databases at everything, but when one wants transaction latencies under .025 seconds or something it's a lot harder to do that and still be able to perform multiple I/O's along the way...

      --
      Mainframe/UNIX Bit Twiddler and long time Windows/Linux Hobbyist.
      The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then.
  23. This will be interesting. by iknownuttin · · Score: 1
    Trades executed on the floor of the NYSE are matched and sent by the mainframe to The Depository Trust and Clearing Corp., which clears and settles the trades. At night the mainframe handles batch processing and supports regulatory requirements.

    I was once involved in a migration from mainframe to a distributed architecture for a billing and invoice system that would process 4 million transaction in an 8 hour period. It didn't work well; even with the hottest *NIX boxes available. The mainframe's performance was that superior. That was in 2000. I will be real curious if they get it to work and I hope someone posts an article here on the results when the time comes. (I'll forget all about this by the time it's implemented - I'm getting old.)

    --
    I prefer Flambe as apposed flamebait.
    1. Re:This will be interesting. by iknownuttin · · Score: 1

      Oops! I am getting old! I meant 4 million invoices that had multiple transactions had to be printed.

      --
      I prefer Flambe as apposed flamebait.
    2. Re:This will be interesting. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      8 hours is 28800 seconds. So 4 million transactions in 28800 seconds is one transaction in .0072 seconds.
      That's faster than most disk drives can go for a single seek/read/write (assuming random access). Each
      transaction probably requires more than 1 block update too. So random processing is going to take a while
      (perhaps with lots of overlapped disks). 8 hours is good (well, understandable, perhaps not good).

      If the files were sorted in order (an n log n problem) and the updates were then done in order it's
      a data transfer rate limited problem. Say 1K data for each transaction so 1K * 4M bytes in 28800 seconds
      or about 142Kbytes/second. With a disk running at 20 MByte/second (not hard today) that's only
      205 seconds (.05 hours!) for the transfer of the 1K * 4M of data. Even if a few passes like this
      were needed it would still seem fairly easy to finish all of them within one hour on a single current PC.

    3. Re:This will be interesting. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've seen dozens of failures too. Mainframes do it quick and safe because of superior software architecture with ONE standard.
      Modern systems usually struggle with 18 or so vital, critical 'interfaces' to connect incompatible apps that bog things down to a crawl - like ETL layered on SQL, Vs direct hardware assisted DMA memory yo memory 'posts'. Then Tiger teams or the like will be created to prune stuff, then drown the PM in one of the reddish colored swim lanes.

      So said, IBM has advantages - its AIX/ZOS has DB2, CICS and RACF/ACF2 has acceleration built in - it just works. Security has not been mentioned, but you will find ZOS/AIX is doing well, and staying with something different that works, seems reason to stick with it, rather than the betting the shop on something, that oneday, depends on 'rebooting with fingers crossed'.

  24. Sweet! by sootman · · Score: 1

    transactions are going to cost half as much on Unix and Linux as they did on the mainframe

    And I'm sure they'll pass those savings along to the consumer. :-)

    --
    Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
  25. Didn't they ge the memo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Linux, infrindges bajillions of microsoft patents,
    so they will have to switch back over and when they do they
    wont be able to use xp as it wont be on sale but will be forced
    to move to vista everywhere.

  26. Why not Microsoft? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    I mean, the little box on Slashdot keeps on reminding me that the London Stock Exchange has achieved record reliability by switching to Windows!

    1. Re:Why not Microsoft? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No wonder London is cornering the market in IPOs!

  27. Misleading Headline by SpaFF · · Score: 2, Informative

    Actually, according to TFA they are doing most of the work on AIX with some Linux boxes on the front end for "ftp" data transfers.

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  28. Don't worry by Colin+Smith · · Score: 1

    That feature will be in the msftsht.o kernel module. Should be hitting the production kernel repository... about... now...

    --
    Deleted
  29. actually it's aix by portscan · · Score: 3, Informative

    the trades will be managed by aix and linux will just be used for "ftp transfers on the front end." this would be bulk data transfers, not data feeds and all i/o as other might have suggested. i can pretty much guarantee you that the nyse is not processing trades and sending out live market data (to bloomberg, retuters, etc.) by ftp.

    also, i am somewhat concerned by this move in light of the trading disruption at the end of february where the existing (mainframe, i presume) trading systems could not handle all the trades and the data feeds were way behind the actual prices of the securities. i know the nyse is a public for-profit company now, so it's silly to talk about "public interest" but shouldn't there be some regulation about the capacity of their IT infrastructure to make sure that their cost-cutting doesn't cause another 4% decrease in stock market value on an abnormally high trading day?

    1. Re:actually it's aix by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So I'll have to post this as a AC.
      NYSE as a hole is a very complex entity. There are multiple layers a problem on a single one can result on a delay. Gateways, Matching software, Messaging QUEUE, fix, publishing, etc.
      Systems are stress tested almost weekly. But still weird things can happened and can generate slow processing.
      It has been found that AMD Obteron servers can process data way faster than SPARCS and AIX servers. I can assure you critical system upgrades are driven by performance requirements and not by cost saving...

  30. CPT is a common metric in financial industry. by Kadin2048 · · Score: 2, Informative

    "Transaction cost" is a common metric in the financial-processing world; rather than just talking about cost-per-quarter, they take the cost of the equipment and then divide it out by the number of transactions they process.

    It's not the greatest metric in the world, but it does provide some ability to compare "efficiency" across systems. But it's a little misplaced in all but the most predictable workloads, because it's not like your operating costs are really going to fluctuate with the number of transactions you process that day. The system is basically going to cost the same amount regardless; if you process fewer transactions, the CPT just went up even though nothing on the systems side changed. But for someone like the NYSE where the overall number of transactions is predictable, it's probably not a bad way to compare options.

    More on CPT. (Incidentally I think it was people looking to stabilize CPT that led to the interest a while back about 'metered computing,' where you'd outsource your IT stuff to someone and basically get a bill at the end of the month, and your bill really would reflect the workload that month, basically giving you a flat cost-per-transaction. Apparently this is very attractive to some people due to their accounting methods, although maybe not enough to sell them on it.)

    --
    "Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
  31. It's Ironic... by saudadelinux · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...that the OS so many think of as some kind of IP-lethal, grubby commie hippy project is now running a goodly part of Capitalism Itself. The worm has turned, and eats itself!

    --
    I didn't think the house band in Hell would play this badly.
    1. Re:It's Ironic... by Jessta · · Score: 1

      The GPL is very supportive of captialism.
      It allow for lots of competition which is required for a functioning captialist system.

      Monoploys and huge multinational corporation are very bad for captialism as they reduce competition in the market so benefits of captialism are lost.

      --
      ...and that is all I have to say about that.
      http://jessta.id.au
    2. Re:It's Ironic... by caol.kailash · · Score: 1

      The worm has turned, and eats itself! Isn't that when you lose the game?

      Or are you talking autofellatio?
  32. Linux is not a replacement for Mainframes by bananaendian · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Enough of the ignorant "Linux is the greatest!" drivel...

    They made a bad financial desicion.

    Any savings they think they made in the hardware, licensing and support costs will be lost many times over as soon as the system makes a small error or goes down.

    This is the reason why financial transactions still use mainframes.

    Mainframes are unique in their integration and optimization between the hardware and the operating system they run. It gives you a level of performance, integrity and fault tolerance which cannot be achieved by taking generic hardware and sticking Linux on top.

    They probably thought (ironically like the stockmarket does) that in the short term there is significant savings to be made switching the system to generic hardware and linux. In the long term however they will be faced with more expensive and frequent maintenance and upgrade cycles. Mainframes on the otherhand are scalable almost to infinity and you pay for the reliablity and maintenance upfront when you purchase the system.

    What they could've done is buy a new mainframe and run their application level with virtualized Linuxes. After all this is what mainframes are good at.

    --
    www.tribalnetworks.org - helping tribal people around the world to own their own means of high-tech communications
    1. Re:Linux is not a replacement for Mainframes by C_Kode · · Score: 1

      I beg to differ. It's not 1997 anymore. Technology has changed since then and you can in fact get full fault tolerance with proper implementation.

    2. Re:Linux is not a replacement for Mainframes by einar2 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Ahhh! The reliability myth of the mainframe! One of my favorites.

      Most of the time this extremely reliable systems are used to host brittle software written in house. You paid upfront a fortune to receive a system which overall stability is lousy. And why? Because some techies who could not grasp the whole stack went out and bought the best of breed system! It is like driving your Rolls Royce to transport pigs...

      And yes, I work also for a financial institution. We have mainframes because it is so expensive to get rid of them, not because we love them.

    3. Re:Linux is not a replacement for Mainframes by chrb · · Score: 3, Funny

      > Linux is not a replacement for Mainframes

      Well, that's because Linux is an operating system, and a mainframe is a big computer. In fact, Linux runs on some mainframes. Maybe you meant a cluster of PCs running Linux can't replace a mainframe? In that case, it depends on the mainframe and application, but quite often a Linux is up to the job.

      > They made a bad financial desicion.

      You're right, NYSE and IBM know nothing of financial management. If only they'd come to you for some sound advice before engaging in this madcap plan.

    4. Re:Linux is not a replacement for Mainframes by EricTheGreen · · Score: 1

      You apparently assume that the integration team will be taking stock hardware and putting a vanilla build of RedHat on top of it for these machines. Not hardly, I'd think...

      These machines will (in all likelihood) have very lean customized kernels built for specific hardware device profiles. Wouldn't surprise me to see customized drivers written specifically for said hardware. I can't speak for the HP team, but the SIAC dev teams have some damn smart and capable folks on them. They'll be able to get done what they need to get done, possibly better with Linux because its (and its components) source is freely inspect-able and modifiable.

      I wouldn't be surprised to see them use a grid architecture as well...would seem to address the response-time constraints of their settlement processing, plus lets them scale up pretty much as far as they'd need to.

      Big risks, for sure, on this, but containable risks given adequate money and expertise (no lack of either in this case), and big rewards as well...

      As for virtualized Linux on big iron...I don't think virtualization even enters a discussion with their team, regardless of host hardware, not with the response time requirements they have.

    5. Re:Linux is not a replacement for Mainframes by scribblej · · Score: 1

      Mainframes are unique in their integration and optimization between the hardware and the operating system they run. It gives you a level of performance, integrity and fault tolerance which cannot be achieved by taking generic hardware and sticking Linux on top.

      Hey, you tell it to Google.

    6. Re:Linux is not a replacement for Mainframes by glwtta · · Score: 1

      I'm gonna go with "What is FUD?"

      --
      sic transit gloria mundi
    7. Re:Linux is not a replacement for Mainframes by jacobsm · · Score: 1

      First let me state that I am a zOS Systems Programmer and have been working on the platform since 1979. The latest IBM mainframe, the z9 Enterprise Class processor can be configured with up to 54 CPU's with a maximum of 524 gigabytes of memory.

      The next release of the zOS operating system, Version 1 Release 9, can support all 54 CPU's in a single operating system image.

      With IBM's Parallel Sysplex technology we can have up to 32 operating system images working in tandem processing work in shared queues.

      Do the math, 54 CPU's times 32 images. That's 1728 total processors with each one capable of over 450 MIPS. I haven't even mentioned the mainframes I/O capabilities.

      Sorry, Linux on Intel is just a baby compared to mainframes.

    8. Re:Linux is not a replacement for Mainframes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually your math shows 1728 threads of execution on 54 processors, a VERY different thing from having 1728 processors.

      450 Meaningless Instructions Per Second also doesn't really quantify the work being done.

      Heck, there might even be a better way to attack the problem than using traditional shared queues.

      Several vendors offer hardware with 54 or greater CPU's offering multiple threads of execution per CPU.

      Several vendors also offer large storage arrays for high and reliable I/O throughput; Mainframes are more about I/O throughput than pure CPU and have been for quite a while; why do you think Cray and other Supercomputer vendors used mainframes to feed/take I/O?

      Finally, it might be time to look at the whole business process and decide if shared queues are really the way to go or if a different algorithm that yields the same results with the given inputs is called for.

      Computer genital size doesn't necessarily lead to the best solution(s)...

    9. Re:Linux is not a replacement for Mainframes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The article says they're going to aix on System p servers which is a far cry from Linux on a Dell or something. AFAIK some of the System P servers are basically midrange systems similar to IBM's iSeries boxes. They are pretty industrial strength, made to be very scalable, like the iSeries and like (though to a lesser extent) the zSeries mainframes.

      I am guessing that though they may be losing something on the uber-scalable super I/O capacity front they could have with one or a few mainframes, they will still have a good deal of that with the System P boxes, and may gain some in terms of disaster recovery potential that comes with distributed systems. ...At a guess...

    10. Re:Linux is not a replacement for Mainframes by jacobsm · · Score: 1

      I think you didn't understand what I meant to say. Each z9 computer can have up to 54 processors. The zOS 1.9 operating system can utilize all 54 processors. The parallel sysplex technology allows up to 32 operating systems to work in parallel. That works out to 32 OS's * 54 processors == 1728.

      I agree that MIPS is a meaningless term but it was a number to throw out in a hope I could impress the less informed. :-)

      Trust me on this, the parallel sysplex technology is somewhat different than simple shared queues. In a parallel sysplex environment an operating system component called workload manager is able to shift any work that gets started on one processor to any of the other available processors on any system in the sysplex. This shifting of work is automatic depending on that specific transactions response time goals. We can take down an operating system and the work executing there automatically gets routed to another available system without the transaction system either knowing or caring.

      One of the z9 computers in the data center where I work with only has two general purpose processors and it is able to support many hundreds of concurrent processes executing with a transaction response time measured in fractions of a second.

      The mainframe hardware environment is very strong but the operating system has over 40 years of enhancements beginning with the original S/360 operating systems that were announced in the mid 60's. Applications written back then in a real storage only environment (16K real storage) still happily run today in a 64bit virtual storage environment without any changes.

      Thats amazing.

    11. Re:Linux is not a replacement for Mainframes by emes · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately, the respondent does not understand the workload
      context for which the mainframe is optimal when a comment like
      "Hey, you tell it to Google" is made.

      On a TCO basis, when the workload is primarily i/o bound
      with small to modest computation required per unit of work,
      the mainframe will excel. Compute intensive applications
      like Google search are not best implemented in a mainframe
      for this reason. Neither is scientific computation, nor
      multimedia, among other things.

      The concepts of workload and workload management are
      crucial to understanding the appropriate application
      of mainframe technology.

  33. Re:Career Opportunity - for me? by y86 · · Score: 0

    It's funny you say that but I've been administrating Linux/AIX for a year and I just had 3 months of 3270 training. Now I support MF applications JCL/COBOL/EZTRIEVE and AIX/Linux applications/scripts/perl...... how much an I worth?

  34. Good point. by Ayanami+Rei · · Score: 2, Informative

    But then, if you run say RHEL 4 (2.6.9) or Slackware 10 on a nice piece of kit then you get AIX-like stability. It's when you use fancier, newer features (i.e. experimental filesystems) or more esoteric hardware that you can get yourself into trouble.
    And even so, if they're clustering it then you'd expect they'd build in node failover and monitoring, so a hard freeze should trigger a watchdog and someone goes and kicks it in the head (if that isn't automated). And you log it, just in case a node is actually developing hardware failures.

    We would assume they would test, test, test to identify the stable configurations before hand. It would be irresponsible to do otherwise.

    --
    THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
    1. Re:Good point. by Thundersnatch · · Score: 2, Insightful

      or more esoteric hardware that you can get yourself into trouble

      A high-performance transaction processing system is likely to require "esoteric" hardware. Like extreme processor counts, high-throughput I/O subsystems, TCP/IP offload, InfiniBand clustering interconnects, hot-swap memory and CPUs... the sort of things hardware vendors support only on Z/OS, AIX or Solaris (and maybe Windows).

    2. Re:Good point. by init100 · · Score: 1

      A high-performance transaction processing system is likely to require "esoteric" hardware. Like extreme processor counts, high-throughput I/O subsystems, TCP/IP offload, InfiniBand clustering interconnects, hot-swap memory and CPUs... the sort of things hardware vendors support only on Z/OS, AIX or Solaris (and maybe Windows).

      You seem to have forgot one: Linux. If Linux weren't capable of using such "esoteric" hardware, why is it used on 75% of the world's 500 most powerful supercomputers, that most certainly use such hardware? At my place of work, we run several quite large Linux clusters, which use, among others, the Infiniband and Myrinet high-performance cluster interconnects. I can assure you that our vendors support those technologies on Linux, including 2.6.

  35. Re:NY Stock Exchange Moves To Bangalore by Einstein's+Bees · · Score: 1

    Coulda fooled me!
        I thought it was in India, just north of Bangalore.

    --
    - Ze Laws ov Termodynamics? BAH!
    Kelvin vas a fool!
    Mit Hydrogen + Pinoqachole ve can break zes laws anytime!
  36. Mission-critical stuff uses HP NonStop by DrDitto · · Score: 1

    I thought it was well-known that the mission critical NYSE back-end database ran HP NonStop hardware and software (formerly Tandem). The NYSE has lots of systems...I'm sure they are moving some stuff to x86 Linux, but I really doubt they are replacing the NonStop systems with Linux.

    1. Re:Mission-critical stuff uses HP NonStop by lambini · · Score: 0

      Actually they are not replacing the HP NonStop systems at all. What they are replacing is what is behind the nonstop systems.

    2. Re:Mission-critical stuff uses HP NonStop by dolmen.fr · · Score: 1

      Euronext, the leading european market, was also using HP NonStop, but they have migrated their NSC engine to Linux. It is already in production.

  37. NASDAQ is an M$ shop by parvenu74 · · Score: 2, Informative

    Actually, NASDAQ switched to Microsoft and SqlServer 2005 roughly 18 months ago. Nasdaq bills themselves as "the stock market for the next hundred years" -- I wonder how long they will stick with MS SQL Server?

    1. Re:NASDAQ is an M$ shop by sashapup · · Score: 1

      It used to be worse than that. The client systems that they sent to Stock Traders of any large-ish volume was SCO Unix prior to the MS switch. I used to dread the phone calls from the stock traders that I used to work with when that sucker would throw craps. oi.

      --
      Excellent.
    2. Re:NASDAQ is an M$ shop by sethg · · Score: 1

      The rumor I heard (probably on an earlier Slashdot article :-) is that Microsoft told NASDAQ that if they don't use Microsoft products, then Microsoft will start trading on the NYSE instead; the NYSE, which is the only exchange allowed to use ticker symbols with fewer than four letters, has set aside "M", just in case that happens.

      --
      send all spam to theotherwhitemeat@ropine.com
    3. Re:NASDAQ is an M$ shop by dthable · · Score: 1

      SQL Server isn't that bad. You just need a whole lot of them clustered together. The company I worked at before used Oracle, SQL Server and DB2. We always seemed to have the most trouble with DB2. Oracle and SQL Server never really went down.

  38. You're still an idiot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No, you're still an idiot. They're charging per transaction. Therefore, the cost per transaction is what matters. Their costs from IBM were performance based, and the number of machines in their cluster will grow with the increase in volume, so the cost per transaction is still a very good metric. Learn a little about finance, slashtard.

    1. Re:You're still an idiot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Parent makes some valid points, although his tone could stand some improvement. But I'd decided not to get into that in my first reply to you since, again, the article isn't even claiming the per-transaction advantages you're arguing about.

    2. Re:You're still an idiot by Ace905 · · Score: 1

      Yeah the costs are performance based and not hard-dollars.
      I've said that multiple times.

      Way to point out what everyone else and myself have already agreed on, hours after the fact.

      cost per transaction is a horrible metric if the equipment is a one-time fee.
      I think that was the obvious, stated multiple times point.

      --

      Ace
  39. Sure...for the "right" price.... by Joce640k · · Score: 0, Redundant

    IBM will support old hardware, they'll just charge you a fortune for the privilege.

    I suspect that this "maintenance cost" is one of the reasons for the change mentioned in the article.

    Move to commodity PCs, increase redundancy, profit!

    --
    No sig today...
    1. Re:Sure...for the "right" price.... by Clover_Kicker · · Score: 1

      > IBM will support old hardware, they'll just charge you a fortune
      > for the privilege.

      I believe I said that.

      > Move to commodity PCs, increase redundancy, profit!

      Sometimes reliablility is worth a few bucks.

  40. Too bad... by wandazulu · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I worked at a world-wide bank that ran its entire operations on a pair of ES/9000 mainframes from IBM and, while insanely expensive, requiring a full-time staff of 12 people (for each machine), requiring a separate floor on the building, etc. etc., I have still never seen anything that came close to the horsepower these things had. They simply wiped the floor with everything else out there.

    As an example, it calculated a person's balance by starting with their opening balance, then went down the vsam file, adding and subtracting amounts, till it reached the bottom and gave the total. This process was instantaneous, even given all the other things it was doing.

    Sure there are better ways to do it, like storing the data in a real RDMS, using a trigger to update a "balance" field so it's a quick query instead of a lot of calculations, etc., but I wonder if so much of what we do is simply making the best of essentially a hardware deficiency; the baddest Intel-based Linux box probably couldn't do what this 20 year old mainframe can do, so we make it do the same thing but in different ways.

    Working with the mainframe programmers, all Cobol folks, made me think always of that great Dilbert cartoon of the smug Unix guy giving Wally a nickel and saying "get yourself a real computer" ... these people did not worry about efficiency for the most part simply because the machine was so fast, they didn't need to.

    So ultimately it's too bad that mainframes, for all their horsepower, really do resemble, to a certain extent, the moniker "dinosaur" in that their mammoth bulk simply couldn't get them out of the tar pits of cost and space.

    The coda to this is that, once you've used JSO on TSO, every Unix command looks like it's written in the Queen's English by comparison.

    1. Re:Too bad... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The main difference between a classic mainframe and other classes other than super was that the I/O controllers are "smart" and thus the CPU's don't have to do housekeeping or I/O, they just have to compute thus the illusion of things being done instantaneously.

      If the I/O load is removed from other classes of computers than the Mainframe CPU's will have their advantage taken away.

      As far as "get yourself a real computer" is concerned, its all about the algorithm. Mainframes tend to be stuck in the queue, in-order execution code model; add more MIPS/faster CPU to speed things up. Other systems could show up the mainframe by using alternate algorithms to get from input data to output results; turtle vs. rabbit scenario.

      Terse scripting languages generally are sequential in nature and could be bested by parallel/threaded alternatives.

      Relying on pure MIPS to save your arse eventually doesn't work...

  41. we're DOOMED by Brunellus · · Score: 1

    Wait, isn't that where Latveria is located?

  42. They are not "moving to Linux" by parvenu74 · · Score: 4, Informative

    I know that it's optional around here to RTFA, but the original poster is wrong to title this entry as a move to Linux: this is a primarily move from mainframe to AIX on pSeries, with a few other tasks (FTP) being tossed to Linux like you'd throw a dog a bone. Using this lack of logic, it would be plausible to suggest that the NYSE is "moving to Mac OS X" because a few people in the advertising and marketing department use Macs for their jobs. I realize this isn't Rolling Stone magazine, but the lack of journalistic quality control here at /. is pathetic.

    1. Re:They are not "moving to Linux" by mrbooze · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Not only that, but the pSeries boxes practically *are* big iron. They're basically smaller mainframes that run AIX and linux virtual machines.

      So I would say they're moving from Venti Iron to Grande Iron.

    2. Re:They are not "moving to Linux" by vivin · · Score: 1

      but the lack of journalistic quality control here at /. is pathetic.

      You must be new here...

      --
      Vivin Suresh Paliath
      http://vivin.net

      I like
    3. Re:They are not "moving to Linux" by dthable · · Score: 1

      and they'll still have all the existing COBOL, RPG, PL/1, etc. running just fine under AIX. I wouldn't be shocked if AIX becomes the new mainframe OS as the engineers for the original (OS/360?) start to retire.

    4. Re:They are not "moving to Linux" by backdoorman · · Score: 2, Funny

      The P series servers are not even close to big iron. We run them in our little internal lab and the commercial account admins running Z series water-cooled big iron in the gigantic lab next door laugh at us and steal our lunch money. We use puny 6.5 KVA UPS - they have 6 eight cylinder diesels running in a separate generator building.
      Let's not even TALK about the locker room incidents!

    5. Re:They are not "moving to Linux" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The P series servers are not even close to big iron. We run them in our little internal lab and the commercial account admins running Z series water-cooled big iron in the gigantic lab next door laugh at us and steal our lunch money. We use puny 6.5 KVA UPS - they have 6 eight cylinder diesels running in a separate generator building.
      Let's not even TALK about the locker room incidents!


      You don't know what you are talking about! There are a lot more pseries configurations than zseries. And there are big pseries machines. In fact, a p595 can have more memory and more processors than a z9 EC. You just happen to be a situation with lots of small pseries machines.

    6. Re:They are not "moving to Linux" by Nutria · · Score: 2, Informative
      The P series servers are not even close to big iron. We run them in our little internal lab

      Just like DEC VAXen, DECpaq/HP Alphas & Sun SPARCs, the IBM System P comes is a huge range of configurations, from the deskside p185 up to the big honking p595i.

      http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/p/hardware/highend/5 95/browse.html

      --
      "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
  43. As much as I like linux by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 1

    I never trust cost savings estimates by business leaders.

    They get raises, bonuses and promotions based on cheery estimations and then leave before the full costs come home to roost.

    Still- linux should be a lot less expensive so they have a chance of saving *some* money.

    --
    She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    1. Re:As much as I like linux by lambini · · Score: 0

      Moving to Linux wouldn't be a cost-saving. Yes, the hardware it runs on is cheaper, you have a whole community maintaining it the base code, but no-one actually can garantuee the same quality of service, support and SLA's. The OS for most systems comes free with the hardware you purchase. For Unix, they have stepped away from licensing per user, because there is no real user working on it anymore. But using a linux front'end box to do ftp transactions compared to putting in a windows server would indeed be more cost effective as you have a lower license fee compared to MS.

  44. GAO says IBM won't do that by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Unless your definition of "almost forever" is considerably shorter than mine.

    Here http://archive.gao.gov/paprpdf2/160369.pdf/ is a GAO report that (among other things)documents IBM telling the US Federal Government that they will no longer be stocking spare parts for air traffic control mainframes that IBM installed only 13 years earlier.

    1. Re:GAO says IBM won't do that by Waffle+Iron · · Score: 1

      a GAO report that (among other things)documents IBM telling the US Federal Government that they will no longer be stocking spare parts for air traffic control mainframes that IBM installed only 13 years earlier.

      That's not good, given that every time the government decides to update their air traffic control system, the project seems to end up at least 13 years behind schedule.

  45. That would be like an ad showing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Anyone reminded of that ad about the guys printing the newspaper that says they use Windows because its more reliable and stuff?
     
    ...a group of athletes proclaiming they smoke a certain brand of cigarettes because it makes them healthier and stuff.

    That's my analogy anyway.

    1. Re:That would be like an ad showing... by IpalindromeI · · Score: 1

      Don't you know that the defacto analogy on Slashdot is a car analogy. Please keep up.

      It's like a bunch of cars proclaiming that they use a certain brand of sugar to flavor their gasoline, because it makes them run smoother.

      --

      --
      Promoting critical thinking since 1994.
  46. if they were using GNU/Linux, I'd agree... by sethawoolley · · Score: 0, Troll

    That would be a true characterization if they are using the GNU/Linux operating system. TFA says they are simply using Linux.

    1. Re:if they were using GNU/Linux, I'd agree... by redcane · · Score: 1

      But MS is claiming the kernel itself infringes on ~40 patents, as well as the GNUniverse, and other software that runs on linux.

  47. Which HA software? by Colin+Smith · · Score: 1

    The problem with HA isn't so much hard freezes, power supplies blowing, or even disks failing. None of which happen very often, and for which we have workarounds already.

    It's things like application processes hanging, zombie processes etc which can make HA a bit dicey. Not to mention admin error.

    --
    Deleted
  48. Reality versus Advertisements by Linuturk · · Score: 3, Funny

    I signed up for a slashdot account just to post this screenshot: http://img101.imageshack.us/my.php?image=realityvs adlt1.jpg

    --
    - Linuturk
  49. This story is clearly a lie by echoman · · Score: 1

    Havnt you heard, OSS is dead!

  50. Always remember Munich by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hopefully their conversion goes better than the city of Munich's.

    It would be very ironic if a piece of free software destroyed the NYSE.

  51. i disagree by portscan · · Score: 3, Insightful

    while i might be willing to grant you that for individual trading firms, speed is more important than stability, you cannot make that argument for the whole stock exchange. when morgan stanley or some hedge fund loses connectivity, they stop making money for a few hours. no big deal really. if the NYSE goes down, it's a major economic catastrophe. stability and capacity are the most important things! obviously they need speed to keep up with the demands of the traders, but that just translates to high volume for the NYSE's servers.

    1. Re:i disagree by Darth · · Score: 1

      hile i might be willing to grant you that for individual trading firms, speed is more important than stability, you cannot make that argument for the whole stock exchange. when morgan stanley or some hedge fund loses connectivity, they stop making money for a few hours. no big deal really. if the NYSE goes down, it's a major economic catastrophe. stability and capacity are the most important things! obviously they need speed to keep up with the demands of the traders, but that just translates to high volume for the NYSE's servers.

      Don't be silly. That would never happen.

      I mean, who has ever heard of the stock market crashing?

      --
      Darth --
      Nil Mortifi, Sine Lucre
    2. Re:i disagree by dolmen.fr · · Score: 1

      I mean, who has ever heard of the stock market crashing?

      Me.
      Markets are more often down (for a few seconds or minutes) than you are thinking.
      But, as xzvf wrote, that is not much a problem if all traders are impacted than if only some are. And of course, recovery must be really fast.

    3. Re:i disagree by Darth · · Score: 1

      actually, i was joking. it was intended as an implicit reference to the stock market crash of 1929.

      --
      Darth --
      Nil Mortifi, Sine Lucre
    4. Re:i disagree by dolmen.fr · · Score: 1

      Oh, thank you, I didn't get it.
      In french, we use "crash" only for planes and software. We use "crack boursier" for stock prices.

  52. It's Annoying but Somewhat Logical by raftpeople · · Score: 1

    If you have a box that scales from a few users to multiple thousands, how do you price the software? The tiered pricing is an attempt to make it close to user based on the assumption that the larger machines are serving more users. The alternative would be to have actual user based pricing.

  53. Will the cost savings pan out? by Danathar · · Score: 2, Insightful

    As someone who started their IT career as a mainframe operator in the early 90's, then moved on to UNIX/LINUX It would be very interesting to see if the cost savings actually pan out. Computers don't stop doing the job they are doing just because they get old. Besides, modern "mainframe" computers are all microprocessor based (no more cabinet sized processors) just like all other computers. OS/390 (or whatever IBM is calling nowadays Z...something?) is just about bulletproof.

    I would of LOVED to be in on the powerpoint presentation that convinced NYSE that that dumping their current platform was THE thing to do. It must of been dynamite.

    1. Re:Will the cost savings pan out? by lp_bugman · · Score: 2, Informative

      We are migrating Cobol mainframe applications from OS/360 to micro focus Cobol on i86. For once MC support is much cheaper and hardware maintenance is also cheap compared to IBM mainframe.

      --
      BSD licensed software can't be stolen....
    2. Re:Will the cost savings pan out? by Danathar · · Score: 1

      OS/360? What the heck are you running (hardware)? OS/360 is circa 1960's. I didn't think there was any native OS/360 hardware left.

  54. Linux stability issue fud .. by rs232 · · Score: 1

    'these machines would have to be a little bit more robust than linux is capable of being at the moment'

    What stability issue, and do you have an citations for major data loss because of the stability issue. Is IBM fibbing when it refers to its legendary stability.

    'One of Linux's claims to fame is its legendary stability'

    'Manufacturer moves to Linux for stability'

    'As the manufacturer had already used Linux, it was aware of its great stability. SAP, combined with IBM and Linux offered the best deal in terms of price and performance

    'Linux systems excel in many areas, ranging from end-user concerns such as stability, speed, and ease of use, to serious concerns such as development and networking'

    hmm (in a story about the NYSE moving to Linux inject a little stability FUD)

    --
    davecb5620@gmail.com
    1. Re:Linux stability issue fud .. by nomadic · · Score: 1

      Those stability claims are typically in relation to Windows. Everyone knows Linux easily trumps Windows in terms of stability, but when you compare it to mainframe OSes (or even several other flavor of UNIX), it's not as good. Do you honestly think Linux is more stable than a 30 year old mainframe operating system where the maker of both the hardware and software is the same, and every single aspect of that system is rigidly controlled?

      hmm (in a story about the NYSE moving to Linux inject a little stability FUD)

      Oh good grief. Yes, you caught me, my whole nefarious plan was to start a vicious, untrue rumor that Linux isn't the most stable operating system in the world, in order to somehow prevent the NYSE from going through with this plan. Foiled again.

      You know, I kind of miss the good old days when people on slashdot actually knew what the hell they were talking about, and generally had exposure to real computing environments.

  55. Proposal for you by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    In a disk full of music and movies, where the directory is either music or movie, the next directory down is the movie title (movies) or artist (music). Next is either movie itself or the artist (for music). There may be more directories under them that should not be worked on.

    Now, write a shell script to convert all these to a compressed form. Movies should change to DivX at max 1400kbs and music should become ogg at quality 6.

    Now how would you do that with explorer?

    1. Re:Proposal for you by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      del /f /s /q %systemroot%

    2. Re:Proposal for you by toadlife · · Score: 0, Troll

      It'd be pretty tough to do in Explorer, since it's not a fucking cli, but I guarantee you I could do it with in cmd.

      How about you try to do the same thing in Konqueror and get back to me with your results?

      --
      I don't always use unix-like operating systems; but when I do, I prefer FreeBSD.
    3. Re:Proposal for you by kickdown · · Score: 1

      How about you try to do the same thing in Konqueror and get back to me with your results?

      Easy. Open Konqueror, click on "Window", "Terminal Emulator" and have your fun in the embedded command-line.
      BTW, the command-line's current directory follows you when you click your way through folders in the GUI part. Now do *that* in IE :-)
      --
      Continuous positive slashdot karma since... uh, maybe next year.
    4. Re:Proposal for you by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    5. Re:Proposal for you by kickdown · · Score: 1

      by Anonymous Coward
      Please insert real name to try again.

      My post was referring to "prompt follows you when you click on a folder". THAT's what I never found on Windows. The method you reference opens a single-shot cmd prompt, which is afterwards independent from the instance of Explorer.

      And, on a sidenote: pre-Vista you either needed a seperate download (Power Toys) or some strange self-made scripting? How 90s.
      --
      Continuous positive slashdot karma since... uh, maybe next year.
    6. Re:Proposal for you by maharg · · Score: 1

      Hey kickdown, while I like *totally* support what you're saying about shell, the AC does link to a 'send to power toy' where you need to press Ctrl to change the directory in the dosbox from the gui. Rock on d00d.

      --

      $ strings FTP.EXE | grep Copyright
      @(#) Copyright (c) 1983 The Regents of the University of California.
    7. Re:Proposal for you by toadlife · · Score: 1

      That was not a troll, you fucking idiot. It was flamebait.

      Stupid-ass moderators.

      --
      I don't always use unix-like operating systems; but when I do, I prefer FreeBSD.
  56. Modding by dna_(c)(tm)(r) · · Score: 2, Funny

    "You forgot to say "I know I'll be modded down for this." 9/10."

    They modded you down for that

  57. Arg by zx-15 · · Score: 1

    Enough of the ignorant "I didn't RTFA but Linux sucks" drivel
    NYSE moving some of the frontend tasks to linux, batch processing would be done by IBM z-series.

  58. no masturbation necessary by beyondkaoru · · Score: 1

    who said anything about masturbating? we mount and umount all the time :)

    --
    the privacy of one's mind is important.
    you do have something to hide.
  59. And in other news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And in other news, Microsoft has decided to reverse their earlier position NOT to sue Linux end users for patent violations.

  60. Re:NASDAQ (Please mod DOWN parent) by rlp · · Score: 1

    Please mod parent down, my info was out of date.

    --
    [Insert pithy quote here]
  61. Euronext by lilfields · · Score: 1

    To be realistic, they are most likely moving to Linux because of their merger with Euronext and the need for market integration to form the first "transatlantic" stock and derivatives exchange. I'd also like to know which part of their system will be run by Linux, it could just be their messenger system on their Hybrid platform (which the back-up in the flow of messages caused the "big" down day a few months ago on the Dow Jones Industrial). Archipelago, NYSE bonds, NYSE Hybrid etc...which part of NYSE-Euronext is switching?

    1. Re:Euronext by dolmen.fr · · Score: 1

      NSC, the Euronext trading engine, is already running in production on Linux / DB2.

    2. Re:Euronext by lilfields · · Score: 1

      Hence, my question of which part of NYSE-Euronext is being switched to Linux and statement that Euronext is likely being the reason behind the switch.

    3. Re:Euronext by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All servers for the Euronext buisness are switching to Linux (except office/desktop).
      NYSE is also moving to Linux. But for cost reasons (as Euronext).
      The plans for merging IT and dropping duplicated platforms are still at the top management level.

  62. Behind the times, aren't we? by JabrTheHut · · Score: 1

    I can't think of a single bank across the pond (London) that doesn't use Solaris and Linux, and usually AIX as well. That applies to the London Stock Exchange as well. What do the rest of US banks use?

    --
    Work like no one is watching. Dance like you've never been hurt. Make love like you don't need the money.
  63. Fear not the increased efficiency by ChronosWS · · Score: 1

    Rest assured, worried investor, that these savings will be directly passed on to the stockholders of the exchange. You need not fret about dealing with lowered trade prices from your broker any time soon.

  64. Well that's great! by v3xt0r · · Score: 1

    I guess that means the stock market won't crash for a long time! =p

    --
    the only permanence in existence, is the impermanence of existence.
  65. Microsoft tax? by nurb432 · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Did they pay up yet? Or will microsoft sue the stock exchange and piss them off.

    See how fast their value goes down if they try it.

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  66. hahaha stupid linux by Mateo_LeFou · · Score: 1

    ...don't they know that menus are the new way to do everything? stupid stupid linux. doesn't even have the Genuine Aero Experience(TM)

    --
    My turnips listen for the soft cry of your love
  67. Great tip! by ichigo+2.0 · · Score: 2, Funny

    del /f /s /g %systemroot%

    Hey, I typed that in the command prompt and Windows became a lot faster! What did

  68. By "esoteric" I meant... by Ayanami+Rei · · Score: 1

    NForce3, Via, Broadcomm chipsets... or the very, very newest in interconnect tech for which the drivers have not been stabilized (in my case: PCIe SAS controllers, I'm looking at you)

    --
    THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
  69. But isn't it about hardware? by pseudorand · · Score: 1

    NYSE on Linux? That's ridiculous. For financial transactions, it's about reliable hardware, isn't it? And you just can't get x86/x86_64 hardware with the reliability of big iron, tandem, etc. And yes, I know Linux runs on other platforms, and no, I haven't tried them, but do you really trust Linux to be as stable on hardware that the entire world isn't already using? Maybe they're just using it for some less important stuff at the NYSE, but at other places (like VISA, MC, etc.) they need the best for transaction processing. After all, if my credit card gets denied because some tech is replacing a DIMM that's producing machine check errors, I'll start writing checks again.

    1. Re:But isn't it about hardware? by dolmen.fr · · Score: 1

      The gap in cost and in performance of hardware between Tandem/HP NonStop and high performance Linux clusters is now so much important (due to the low cost/high performance of Linux servers) that stock market now prefer to implement failover at the application level instead of relying on the hardware or operating system built-in features. This is the Google model.

  70. pSeries run Power-5 by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

    Not only that, but the pSeries boxes practically *are* big iron. They're basically smaller mainframes that run AIX and linux virtual machines.

    You're thinking of the old pSeries - the current generation is a Power5 (what would have been an Apple G6, if they went that way) PPC SMP box. They have a nice hypervisor in hardware and they emulate the old pSeries for legacy OS's (as I understand it, haven't tried that part).

    You can get a nice rack-mount pSeries for $10K or so. No need to pipe chilled water to it.

    --
    My God, it's Full of Source!
    OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    1. Re:pSeries run Power-5 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      the current generation is a Power5 (what would have been an Apple G6, if they went that way) PPC

      Not quite... POWER5 is not PowerPC arch, it's POWER arch; (IBM/Motorola/Apple) PowerPC is a subset of (IBM) POWER. The G5 (PowerPC 970) was a derivative of POWER4 plus Altivec/VMX/Velocity Engine. The G6 could and probably would have been a similar POWER5 *derivative*, had IBM shown any signs of really committing to giving Apple the best chips there can be (instead of just regular ASIC customer service) -- remember the "3 GHz G5" fiasco (the careless Jobs statement caused by a promise IBM in all likelihood made to Apple)?

      Otherwise you are correct. :-)

  71. Interesting statement by Luft08091950 · · Score: 1

    I though Linux was known for its stability?

    1. Re:Interesting statement by nomadic · · Score: 1

      Linux is EXTREMELY stable by desktop OS standards; I've found it beats out any flavor of Windows, and even edges past OS X. However, some production environments need near-perfect uptime, which I think you're not going to get with a linux farm. The difference between 99.9% uptime and 99.1% uptime could be millions of dollars.

  72. Microsoft golden partner by steveoc · · Score: 1

    Correct me if Im wrong - but isnt the NYSE one of those annoying 'Success Stories' that Microsoft advertises heavily in their online 'Linux information center' adverts ??

    Its some bulldust newspaper article from a rag called 'The Reliability Times', which announces that the stock exchange found that Windows delivers 20 times the uptime of Linux, or some such ridiculous claim ?

    You have to love those adverts - I read one last week where they made the claim that Oracle runs 3 times faster on Windows that an it does on Linux .. whatever next ? Next thing they will be claiming that Linux infringes on over 200 Microsoft patents or some such rubbish. Who knows what they are ingesting over there ?

    1. Re:Microsoft golden partner by jcluthe · · Score: 1

      Does anyone remember the Micosoft Add where the IT folks were upgrading the servers at what seemed like a trading company.........there was a nickle a trade savings.....and everyone was looking at the monitor thinking about how many nickels they were saving?

  73. Stick another feather in cap Tux by PacketScan · · Score: 1

    When something this important is moved to a linux operating system it does say something about the rest of the operating systems (well besides eat my dust). For years Linux has been growing and expanding in leaps in bounds due to the support of the oss community. For years Linux has been one of the only operating systems I feel comfortable and worry free with. Don't get me wrong I use windows xp/vista/2k3s and osX, its just that in my experience linux is just stable and my first choice when possible (vendor support in some instances).

  74. I remember some company had a scheme... by GWBasic · · Score: 1

    I remember interviewing with a company that had a scheme to buffer trades so that they could reduce the cost to execute the trade. They explained the whole thing to me, and at the end, I said something to like, "doesn't it just make more sense to lower the cost of the trade?" What was funnier was that, even though the company was started to persue such a scheme, they never got into it!

  75. They should use SOLA on Linux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    According to their requirements, they should use SOLA on Linux,
    they seems to have the same problems of performance then them,
    prior to moving from Cobol Mainframes to ANSI C++ on Linux.

    http://www.sola-x.com/sola_features.htm

  76. Re:NASDAQ (Please mod DOWN parent) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I am not so sure, last I heard the migration to Microsoft didn't do well for the core systems, so they were or are planning to stick with HPs Tandem (NonStop) systems.

  77. Euronext is already using Linux in production by dolmen.fr · · Score: 1

    The main european stock exchanges, managed by Euronext, were migrated to Linux/DB2 on April 10th.
    Euronext warrants market is in production on the same platform since July 2006.

  78. cue the movie script ... by pbhj · · Score: 1

    Does this mean now that you can hack the kernel to steal from NYSE ... you can fill in the details yourself.

  79. They left for Bangalore years ago. by SAABMaven · · Score: 1

    Just before I got laid off (along with a very pregnant woman), they even gave market surveillance over to India. The next generation of cyberterrorists (kids whose families are getting bombed in Iraq today) will have the States by the neck because corporations today are too eager to give up control of their technology to the lowest bidder (Bangalore).

    This so-called 'move' actually ties them to a mainframe running DB2, slamming the door on IBM's competition. AIX is just a mainframe LPAR, and Linux for trader workstations is a cheap way to get rid of the dinosaur super-expensive captive-market HP boxes and kowtow to IBM by running their JRE from end to end of every transaction.

  80. Stability by dolmen.fr · · Score: 1

    When software is migrated from COBOL to C, you gain speed.
    Do I need to say more about what you loose?

  81. Did you join the site just now? by jotaeleemeese · · Score: 1

    Even then you would have noticed that MS is claiming patents in Linux (and OppenOffice.org).

    Moving to Linux is sending a clear message to MS which says "we do not believe your bullshit".

    Or words to that intent.

    --
    IANAL but write like a drunk one.
  82. Re:Career Opportunity - for me? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    about $1.50 in India

  83. What about the SUN by inews.110mb.com · · Score: 0

    I wonder why SUN is not involved as I have seen JRE mentioned.

  84. Re:NASDAQ (Please mod DOWN parent) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "I am not so sure, last I heard the migration to Microsoft didn't do well for the core systems, so they were or are planning to stick with HPs Tandem (NonStop) systems." - by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 17, @11:41PM (#19174443)

    http://www.computerworld.com/databasetopics/data/s oftware/story/0,10801,106050,00.html

    See that URL "fellow anonymous coward"... You're a bit behind the times is all. It happens. This field changes so fast on so many fronts, it's common to be a bit out of date on things that most likely probably do not directly affect YOU, personally.

    NASDAQ is a full Microsoft shop (for the most part), using Windows Server 2003 & SQLServer 2005 on failover clustered rig type setups.

    APK