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Intel Laptop Competes With One Laptop Per Child
Tracy Reed writes "According to the BBC, Intel has designed and begun marketing it's own low-cost laptop targeted at education in developing countries. 'Professor Negroponte, who aims to distribute millions of laptops to kids in developing countries, said Intel had hurt his mission "enormously". Speaking to US broadcaster CBS, Intel's chairman denied the claims. "We're not trying to drive him out of business," said Craig Barrett. "We're trying to bring capability to young people." Mr Barrett has previously dismissed the $100 laptop as a "gadget".'"
Can I buy either one of these? I'd like to get my hands on them to see what they are all about.
Weren't there at least a dozen comments in the last OLPC story that pretty much debunked this idea that Intel's offering was in any way comparable to OLPC's? Oh wait, I forgot to look up and to the left...
Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
Isn't this a good thing? Isn't having many companies working towards the same objective, offering similar products, good for competition, and good for making things cheaper in the end? Maybe lots of competition could give us the $50 laptop. Having a monopoly in any business, even charity, or to help the poor, is necessary to ensure that costs are being kept to a minimum. How do we know that the $50 laptop isn't possible unless there's competition against the guy offering the $100 laptop.
Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
Some more info on the Intel Classmate can be found here.
____
~ |rip/\/\aster /\/\onkey
Two Laptops Per Child
I read the article and there is no reason why Negroponte objects to Intel's efforts other than it undercuts his own project. If the goal is to have a cheap robust laptop for education, does it matter who makes it? I understand that OLPC got the ball rolling, but that doesn't make it the best solution. If its about charity, then grandstanding shouldn't get in the way.
AMD makes the processors for the OLPC. Never mind that Intel is undercutting the OLPC at a loss just to gain market share on what may be one the largest untapped markets for computers.
Shouldn't that read "targeted against OLPC in developing countries"?
Just like with Intel v. Motorola (== i386), Intel v. AMD (== x64) and Intel v. Transmeta (== Centrino), Intel has to be hit hard in testicles to start doing anything - especially something targeted at consumers.
All hope abandon ye who enter here.
I got to play with an XO laptop yesterday at the Maker Faire. It is not a gadget - it is a computer built for a child (small keyboard) with little prior experience with IT (simple GUI, etc). I wrote up a review (with pictures) on my blog.
augment your senses: http://sensebridge.net/
Video linky here
No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Winston Churchill
Quoth TFS: "Intel has designed and begun marketing it's own low-cost laptop".
Does it have a preinstalled grammar checker?
At the bottom of the
I find it hard to believe that Intel is trying to undermine the OLPC project in this way. Yeah, there might be some money in it for them, but at the risk of undermining the entire enterprise of a set machine and experience for these countries. I'm not sure if the OLPC cost is just the hardware cost or whether it includes money to keep the organization running, but if it is funding development and Intel manages to take half the "market", then it won't be easy for the organization to stay afloat.
Think of the chil^H^H^H^H young people, you monster.0 6/09/28/Intel-Classmate-PC-EXCLUSIVE/p2
The Classmate PC runs Microsoft Windows XP Embedded Version 2002, with Service Pack 2. There's very little installed other than drivers for the hardware and the basic Windows Accessories applications. Interestingly, the full suite of Windows desktop games were present - it seems that Intel is keen for children in the developing world to play solitaire when they're bored, just like the rest of us. http://www.trustedreviews.com/notebooks/review/20
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classmate_PC: The Classmate PC, in contrast to the XO (which does not require anything extra) includes a Trusted Platform Module (TPM)[2] to provide any local Windows XP Embedded installation with access to hardware-based DRM.
Do we really want to be educating these kids at all, much less giving them laptops?
By allowing kids in developing countries to get educations, we excite dissatisfaction in their minds. In the end, this disatisfaction will result in them leading unhappy lives filled with anger.
No, it is best for them never to know education. They will be happier, and I will continue to have cheap labor to fuel my extravagant, carefree life of study and leisure.
We all want cheaper hardware, but is flooding developing nations with $100 electronic equipment environmentally sound? Does that $100 include how much it'll cost to properly dispose of the unit? If not, how much will it be? There was just another story today about cost of digital waste. Is it time for us to consider the cost of the equipment more than just the R&D + manufacturing cost?
Which would you rather use?
Where law ends, tyranny begins -- William Pitt
Again, Intel is just trying to generate press, "Look at us! Look at how great we are! We are trying to help the poor!"
And AMD wasn't when they inked a deal with OLPC?
Intel would be more advise to give money to the OLPC project so the per-system cost could be lowered. Team work is needed here, not competition.
That would be completely stupid of Intel. First, it would be putting money in the pockets of AMD. Second, AMD press would have an absolute field day -- "If Intel trusts us for the hard stuff, shouldn't you?" The reality is that Intel's choices were roll their own, or stay out completely.
-- Old Man Kensey
a part of CBS 60 min interview can be found here
From TFA: "They will initially cost $176 (£90) but the eventual aim is to sell the machine to governments of developing countries for $100 (£50).
Intel says it already has orders for "thousands" of Classmates, which currently cost over $200 (£100)"
The Intel machine is more expensive than OLPC. I also bet that it hasn't been engineered from the ground up to be suitable for third world kids. I think Negraponte may be over-reacting a bit when he says Intel's machine ruins everything. (Of course he's way smarter than me, so maybe I'm missing something.)
Wink-wink-nudge-nudge.
butter the donkey
They're destroying us! By advertising a better product!
I thought the article was going to be about how Intel had raised the price of the chip they need, or how they refused to deliver the chips on time, or how they did something to stop them from selling their laptops.
This is awesome, they're actually crying because Intel is advertising a more expensive laptop to the same customers. How ridiculous.
---
Talk about ridiculous
Ace
cheap laptops, they need smaller classes, more techers, less child labor..
i mean why give the 3rd world kids laptops, if the US are already getting rid of them in schools.
Sounds like Beta versus VHS. Why can't everyone just get on the same bandwagon?
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
His laptop costs $176. Intel's costs over $200. His has been far more publicized than intel. He has a "non evil" (read that as non-profit oriented) approach. So what is he really worried about here? If his laptop and his after-purchase support is competitive, he will win based on price. If his feature-set is superior or the laptop is more suited to the task, he will win based on application. If not, he didn't deserve the business. So what is he really worried about? If he gets beat, it's better for the kids anyway, right? If he wins, it's better for the kids. It sounds to me like he wants to be the 'savior' and can't stand being upstaged by a company that isn't out to save the children, but to make a profit.
Why the obsession with laptops? There are plenty of sub-$100 desktop systems available. If power is an issue, hook up a bicycle to a generator...
I'm starting a book.
How long will it take for these things to appear on eBay? OLPC or Classmate, doesn't matter.
Post your dates below:
Deleted
Too *much* competition means that the upfront development cost of each competitor can't be amortized over as many units, which in turn drives the costs *up* for everyone. It seems like Negroponte is arguing that 2 competitors is already too much.
Windows XP Embedded with access to hardware-based DRM and upgrades that cannot be coded by users unless they pay a fee to Microsoft. M$ needs to lay off this DRM crap and give a way a full windows xp install also 256 megs ram - 8mb for board video is way to small for xp.
Steve Jobs had offered to give away Mac OS X free of charge for the OLPC M$ should do the same of this.
Steve Jobs should offer to give away Mac OS X for this as well.
I applaud Negroponte's effort and I like to see OLPC succeed,
but it can't win against the Classmate which has a 900Mhz
Celeron M CPU vs. OLPC's AMD Geode GX CPU which is about
the same speed as a Pentium II 350. Kids have no patience.
Where's Apple's entry? In the past, Apple has had very close ties with educators. I don't think they would want to be left out in the cold.
OLPC is like apple, it's and end-to-end specification. I forget which CPU they are using, I assume it's a VIA since the whole thing is 4 watts. But even if it were an Intel CPU it's a grave danger.
1) Like apple they could choose to change processors at any time. Thus they could move away from X86 if they wished.
2) they will establish a huge software market that does not use intel specific advancements.
3) It will use graphics other then Intel graphics
In short by creating an enourmous consumer market for generic lowest common demoninator software, it removes a tremendous amount of product differentiation the INtel sells. To see this think back about 8 years ago when you had a choice of buying an intel P4 or P3 or buying whatever AMD was selling. You were not really sure if all your code optimizers would work on AMD, not sure if certain drivers would fail on AMD. It was a gamble. The answer was in most cases there was no problems at all. But we all had seen examples of problems. Intel was the safe bet. Plus when optimizations using SSE or analogs came out they were written for intel first. And lord save you if you bought Via or god forbid, transmeta.
With a giant market in non-intel optimizations out there this advantage will be nullified. Software will respect the generic CPU needs. That hurts intel's premium price advantage.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
Don't tell me Intel isn't trying to hurt the One Laptop Per Child program. They've bought 'sponsored link' ads on Google linked to 'Nicholas Negroponte'. The chief proponent of the OLPC program.
...to me that they can build these things for less than the price of most MP3/AAC music players. More materials, more software/hardware development, etc. And they still stand to make a (some small) profit? That leads me to believe -we- are being taken "quite" advantage of by vendors of music/movie players. In fact, and in general, we are all being taken advantage of these days by big corps that vend anything from cell phones to TVs, and especially those that include any kind of "service" plan.
;-(
It's no wonder they can sell Xunes. All it takes is 1 customer and they've made a profit! I give up.
The games aren't there to waste your time. They're very simple, and you're supposed to get bored with them relatively quickly. The games are there to distract you while you learn about using the mouse and windowing system. I wish I could get my parents to play solitaire once in a while. Then maybe I wouldn't get a phone call every other time they "Just want to write a letter." I mean, of course you're going to forget how to do stuff if you treat the machine like a chore to be avoided.
Comparing labtop.org to classmatepc.com (Organiation VS Commercial Business) is that the labtop.org is trying to be the best it can be. It's Open source and basically open everything. If the kid wants to program up the next Halo then they can do that with the OLPC, however Intel (And M$) does seem to just want to just cut into the business and give these kids a cheap windowsbox. However we all know that when these M$ boxesneed upgrading, they are going to have to shell out more money for ClassmatePC Vista or whatever.
I'm hoping OLPC is able to knock Intel and M$ out and show the world it's not about getting more consumers, but getting education to more people.
The classmate site posted before states that it has 256Mb of RAM and 1GB/2GB NAND Flash storage device plues an 800x480 screen.
XP system reqs:
128 megabytes (MB) of RAM or higher recommended (64 MB minimum supported; may limit performance and some features)
1.5 gigabytes (GB) of available hard disk space*
Super VGA (800 x 600) or higher-resolution video adapter and monitor
Office system reqs: The basic version:
Memory 256 megabyte (MB) RAM or higher1
Hard disk 1.5 gigabyte (GB); a portion of this disk space will be freed after installation if the original download package is removed from the hard drive.
Display 1024x768 or higher resolution monitor
So, even with very stripped down versions of XP and Office with interfaces re designed for this screen there will be no room for a single user document!
Sounds more like a Windows Mobile Device spec for me.
Do AMD make a profit selling him his chips? I don't know, but I'd like to think that nobody in the chain is making big money on the OLPC. The article is pretty skimpy on details.
How do the machines compare on the price/performance curve?
Does it run bloody windows? Is the other evil empire in on it too? I seem to remember they put in a spoiler announcement recently that they would develop a version of windows to run on the OLPC.
If I were Mr.Negroponte I would be fucking livid right now.
Home fucking is killing prostitution.
This is not the main goal of the Microsoft/Intel project. They will say this to the public but their intentions are to stop the competitions products from gaining a significant market share. Both Microsoft and Intel had been offered opportunities to be part of the OLPC project and most likely pricing was their main issue. Negroponte knows this and it is likey why he said what he did in the 60Minutes piece.
If Intel can pull it off cheaper, should I feel bad for Negroponte?
They can't but they can get Microsoft involved and split the loss so they can compete with a small group who have researched and invested a few years into making it work and have no licensing issues/expenses by using Linux and OSS. Again, Negroponte knows this because they've already tried to negotiate with Microsoft and Intel along with know what such hardware is going to cost to manufacture in quantity.
If this is truly altruistic work, then he should embrace Intel's commitment, and try to work together.
Microsoft and Intel have no purpose doing what they are doing but to protect their marketshare and their brand names. Both of which help them keep their prices and market pricing at fat profit levels. The OLPC does not appear to be driven by profits and what Negroponte has done in the past shows he has an altruistic foundation. Microsoft nor Intel can show this and history shows quite the opposite.
If this is for-profit capitalism, merely disguised as charity, then may the best man win.
One side is business profit driven( Microsoft/Intel-ClassMatePC ) while the other is charity driven( OLPC ). They are crossing paths and we already know that the billions behind the Microsoft/Intel project is hurting the OLPC project since Negroponte has already said this.
And it just blows me away that Intel would fall for this level when there has been nothing said in the press or otherwise which would have locked Intel out of future designs. AMD is not giving their CPU's away for free. Now Microsoft, that's another story since they absolutely can not allow Linux and OSS to gain traction anywhere. Once you've stopped cleaning Windows, you don't go back and with the open nature of the OLPC, the closed box of Microsoft Windows/software would be painful and constraining.
LoB
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
Use a fake email address if you like, but please tell Intel what you think of their Wal-Mart style business practices in competition with this non-profit org. http://www.classmatepc.com/contact_us.cfm
Seriously?
Compare with:
More books. How cheaply can you print a book? $2? 50 books per child?
More teachers. 6 months teacher's salary per child, or maybe a month per child most places.
Better infrastructure. Better roads, better water, better sewerage, better electricity supply.
The problem is none of the things I've mentioned are sexy. Sure, there's a place for something like the OLPC, but it's in 10 years, once the basics have been mostly fixed, somewhere like America. Instead, governmental funds in very poor countries are going to be redirected to handing out laptops. I'm with Intel's FUD I also think they should hold off purchase, but for entirely different reasons.
Deleted
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
so that would mean that they could split the losses between Microsoft, Intel, and the RIAA and get on with trying to kill off the OLPC project. Having the TPM crap in there is probably something Microsoft required too since they do not want these getting a OLPC image installed. After all, this whole thing is far more likely to be caused by threats of what positive press Linux will get when OLPC trials succeed. IMO.
LoB
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
Fuck everything. We're doing five laptops per child.
Your courageous and selfless spelling corrections have made me a better person.
This comment has been moderated as a troll, in spite of that it clearly is not one. You can't tell, because the troll mods are in the minority. This comment had the same thing happen to it, also clearly not a troll. I find it interesting that my comments in support of the OLPC and debunking a troll against Free Software (one which called it Open Source software, whee) are my only troll-mods today.
One wonders if the Microsoft astroturfers are branching out...
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Deleted
I'm sure that an important contribution comes from M$ who will not sit back and watch OLPC educate the kids in developing countries in using Linux and FOSS. M$ wants them hooked on Windows. Also, a slightly faster CPU can easily make Intel's laptop more attractive than AMD's offer. A serious loss now is worth a lot more later when the market will be able to absorb the cost of Windoze.
competition is good. and either one should be buyable by everyone. price should go down by sales and not sponsorship. i hate that an MIT professor tries to sell 2 to the 1st world to send 1 to the 3rd and at the same time they make million dollar contracts with 3rd world governments.
competition is good. period. maybe a joint venture to let intel make the hardware would be also a solution.
"He accused Intel of selling its own cut-price laptop - the Classmate - below cost to drive him out of markets."
I can't believe this guy. Is he doing it for the children or for himself? Competition (especially with something like this) is very healthy and won't do anything but benefit consumers (in this case children). Go Intel, Boo whoever this guy is...
From the Intel website:
Worst information-to-sentence ratio ever. And that's the first line!
Lies about crimes
Ah, yes. Unless the laptop in question has the mega resolution of the modern desktop - it's not useable. The fact that 800x400 (or 640x480) worked quite well for thousands (millions?) of PCs for years is simply irrelevant.
'Straining' is a subjective judgement - not a fact that can be discerned from the picture.
Which I would use is utterly irrelevant, as the criteria for my machine are vastly different from the criteria by which an educational machine should be judged.
This is if anything a good thing. This means that the goal of getting low priced computing into the hands of children in the developing world is much closer...
The posts seem filled with criticism, but they generally seem to boil down to:
1. OMG how could Intel sell to that market segment, when like, Negroponte *totally* called it. Hay, Intel, didn't you hear him call it? He totally called it. Indeed, he has *dibs*.
2. OMG it has windows on it! Haxxors unite! With our powers of making angry posts on slashdot we can destroy the dreaded WINDOZE computron FTW!
Comments by Negroponte that Intel should be "ashamed of itself" for competing with him are *hilarious*. Anyone who thought that a small nonprofit would last long in this market with potentially enormous profits attached to it was an idiot... This is the reason why the "free market economy" isn't called the "free love funfest."
He also seems to be bitching about Intel selling at prices below what they can make a profit on, which is again pretty hilarious. This is the definition of irony.
As for windows, believe it or not, many people would like the option of running windows... The only time I've purchased a computer that couldn't boot windows was back when I used macs, and even then I sometimes wished I could run win32 games. Since then I've switch to an Ubuntu/XP combo, but I honestly don't think I could totally abandon XP. There are still too many things linux doesn't do that I need.
This is no different than any other PC. Linux will be ported to it, and if you want to run it, it will be there. For 97% of computer uses who have no desire to run linux (and who probably don't even know what linux is), it's pretty convenient that it comes with a copy of windows.
That said, the Intel laptop is higher end and higher priced than Negroponte's laptop. I suspect that this will differentiate them in the market somewhat, and be instructional in what third world countries are actually looking for in terms of computing.
No. you are driving him out of business. either intentionally, or unintentionally. this is what you are doing. you are scuttling a public effort. this is what you are doing. mr barret, you fail.
Read radical news here
Microsoft games would be just as good for grammar stage learning, but once you get to the logic stage of child development, there is a world of difference. (Grammar, Logic, and Rhetoric are terms from the Trivium concept of classical education.) At the logic stage (which kicks in sometime between age 6 and 21 depending on the child - bell curve thing peaking around junior high), kids want to understand how things work, not just memorize facts. M$ actively prevents going very deep into how their system works. That is why I've seen all the students at the Logic stage saddled with M$ donated equipment and software go out and buy TI calculators that they can barely afford. The reason is that they can access a much lower level. I watch them explain symbol tables and software interrupt vectors to each other saying, "Cool!" and such.
In the class I teach, they use a Linux system (FC4), and can do the same thing, plus have a vast library of real code to look at. Many of my students are handicapped with parent provided Windows computers at home. Fortunately, there are interpreter based systems like Squeak and Python that run on Windows and let them dive into a lot of low level details (just not to the hardware level).
The bottom line is that an OSS based computer, whether Intel or OLPC, will be far more valuable for computer science education of interested logic stage and older kids. In the poor areas being targeted, either system will need to be useful for a long time. I can see a synergy between the two hardware devices. Use OSS software for both systems. Use the Intel Classmate for computers that stay in the classroom as a resource. Use OLPC as take home devices owned by the children.
Please don't do this.
I'm sure that many people in your organization think they are doing the right thing in bringing out the classmate pc. They are wrong.
All this will do is make it harder for the OLPC people to get cheap computers to the developing world. It will create confusion. In the end, it will make the whole process much harder.
Please stop. You are hurting the world.
The OLPC project is not a business that you need to compete with. They are trying their level best to make life better in the long term for some people who really need a change for the better. They don't need someone to make short term decisions that will undermine their whole effort.
Please. Either help OLPC or stand aside. It is the best thing you can do to make the world better.
Intel's FUD aside, there are four main reasons why the OLPC has nothing to fear.
1: Power. Built-in generator is a sweet thing as other as pointed out. In fact, there are schools in Mexico and other 2nd world countries where electricity is either too expensive to pay for or not available.
OLPC - No cost to run.
2: No fan, no vents, sealed against elements like a typical cellphone. This is the main reason they went with a low powered chip - to make it weatherproof. Not to really save power. Intel's design is going to have problems in the U.S. - let alone someplace like Egypt or Brazil.
OLPC - more rugged. Less maintainence issues.
3: Open Source. OLPC is giving the nations in question a free ride. Full source, free upgrades, and so on - in short, a package that can be maintained for zero cost by their education departments. Forever. (this is the part where despite the FUD, that Intel hits a big brick wall - cost to maintain) These countries aren't idiots. They just don't have the money, so whatever costs less down the road and can be maintained for a decade without major upgrades (or more!) is going to win. OLPC was carefully made to fit exactly this requirement. Intel's Windows box is a disaster waiting to happen and they know it. Plus, the Intel box runs slower! Faster CPU but the OS bloat is apalling while the OLPC is efficient. Clear win for Negroponte.
OLPC - no cost to maintain the software.
4: FUD doesn't work with these countries. They have a built-in loathing, verging on abject hatred for being exploited by foreign interests and corporations as it is. Intel doesn't get this at all. The guy offering to be their friend for real will get ten times the traction. He has little to worry about. This is why foreign leaders listen to President Carter. Because he's a decent person who isn't going to stab them in the back for profit (and he's a nice guy, too). Megroponte has nothing to fear - he's a saint in their minds already compared to Intel or Microsoft.
OLPC - true philanthropy at work.
He really doesn't have much to fear. But, yes, I wold also be a bit ticked off at their FUD.
Your problem is that you're then willfully ignoring the fact that Adolf may simply be looking for more victims.
All you need to do is to look at what the Gates Foundation did in its early days: support was strangely codependent on procurement decisions. It seems they have either learned their lesson or learned to hide their tracks better..
I'm the first to agree that Mr Negroponte appears to have somewhat of an ego problem, but that doesn't diminish his analysis of what Intel is doing (and MS
The Wintel club's problem is quite simply that they were not involved in what is technically quite an achievement. I've always wondered why I still have to wait for a system despite having about 300x more power under the hood (and Windows Vista Business is completely hopeless, it's the first system I've had that lags about 2 seconds for a simple system beep and then sounds like it can't quite free enough resources for it. And that on a 'Vista ready' laptop (Sony SZ4))..
So, we have the happy Wintel collective up in arms because they've been shown up as unusable for something that needs to be conservative in resource and energy use. They can't afford industry to realise they've been had for many years, hence the fight.
The problem is that they have more marketing dollars, and both corruption and lack of technological knowledge hasn't exactly died out yet, so it's not going to be nice for a while - until OLPC delivers. Because when they do, the show is over for Wintel.
I'm very familiar with this situation. I had that about 12 years ago when I was involved in developing a country network, and because few understood what we were doing the main telco competition didn't even bother to bid.
When they finally grew a clue (i.e. when we had developed the concept so far that it was clearly visible we had resolved all the problems), they were even trying to give connectivity for free to get a stake..
Too late, but very irritating because you always get people who have only understood 10% of the picture who then go and clamour loudly to "save costs" and thus ruin the whole project framework.
Yes, I know exactly what Mr Negroponte is going through. I'd be livid too - he's had the cold shoulder from them and now he's proven them wrong they're trying to muscle in. Weak. Very weak.
Insert
If OLPC were in production and in many countries and INTEL was entering the market, then I might agree with you.
INTEL's sole purpose here could easly be to stop the OLPC from ever being built in quantity. OLPC does not have their own manufacturing, this has to be farmed out to manufacturers who need volumn orders in order to meet unit price guidelines. OLPC can not wait six months for countries to make an informed evaluation and decide how to procede.
In six months ther may be NO laptop's available because OLPC has failed and then INTEL decides there is no longer a business reason to enter this market.
Tom
I get more posts per day than you get modpoints. By all means, attempt to silence me - it will take a group of you. Those of you abusing moderation know who you are, and want to protect yourself from discovery. I understand that. But what I want is for slashdot to be a place that I want to come to, and I can of course hope that there are enough others who feel the same way that they will be against your bid to hide your actions.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
If the goal is to have a cheap robust laptop for education, does it matter who makes it?
Intel makes a lot of money off their laptop chips and the demand for ever faster CPUs. The OLPC is promising to deliver a really neat machine with a lot of new technologies. If OLPC succeeds, Intel faces a major problem because the OLPC will be attractive not just to kinds in third world countries, but to everyday users in developed nations as well.
Therefore, chances are that Intel's "alternative" is actually an attempt to kill any effort like OLPC. While Classmate looks similar to OLPC, its specs and functionality are far worse than OLPC and it's only going to get worse from here on.
People, Don't forget that with this OLPC system, not only does M$ crap itself at the thought of millions of linux competent kids, as intel does in chips, but Intel could loose out in another way, as could M$
OLPC is a paradigm shift in computing. There are NO licence costs, everything is useable, for free, Everything has been designed from the ground up, its a new legacy free, tightly tuned computer that has thrown out all the old PC baggage and nastyness, with a new light, useable OS, that can fly on a 350ish MHz machine.
If it works, there is no reason why they cant make desktop systems using the same code, optimised, open source components. Imagine an OLPC desktop with 512MB RAM and a hard drive, and perhaps an 800MHz chip. It could potentially change home desktop computing in developing worlds forever.
http://www.writeitfor.us - Writing IT for the IT generation.
Well, certainly, there will be a huge instant market for compatible, more powerful machines, in places using the OLPC. But its even bigger than that: the OLPC also involves a ground up rethink of security model and software delivery and user interaction for massive organizations. It could easily shake up the enterprise if it proves successful, and if it does that, the Windows monopoly that Intel (though it has to compete with AMD) largely gets a free ride on could be in trouble.
A new model, with its premier implementation completely open source and tied to Linux, which isn't as tied to x86 as Windows is, would be a big risk for Intel. It might not hurt them: they are well positioned, after all, to compete making processors and chipsets for Linux boxes, after all. But it would make life more interesting and less predictable than life with the Windows monopoly.
It's frightening how many people replying on this thread seem to have zero idea of what advances the OLPC people have been making with their hardware and software.
Maybe it's a consequence o the name of the project... are people just reading that and going "oh... laptops" instead of spending 30 seconds finding out that these machines are revolutionary?
As stated on both the Intel and Classmate PC websites, it is available in Linux as well as Windows.
t ware.html
http://www.classmatepc.com/classmatepc-system-sof
It's interesting that a story (somewhat) critical of Intel should get posted on Slashdot. IIRC, Intel has been paying Slashdot big bucks to publish an "Intel Opinion Center" spamvertisement for several months now. Curious: this Intel-sponsored "section" shut down three days ago without any clear reason. Conincidence? Maybe there's been a boardroom fight?
Intel at its best. First they diss the concept, then they realize they missed the boat, so they start spreading FUD to hurt the competition until they have their own (usually inferior) copy ready. Finally they give it a different name and try to pretend they invented it.
Remember when Intel actually led in technology, not just manufacturing capability? Boy, that was a long, long time ago. They're kind of turning into the Microsoft of hardware.
Intel could donate a wad of cash to the OLPC project and come out smelling like roses... nearly. They mucked their chance a bit with the "ours is better" campaign but they could come out of it with a release something like: "We feel that the OLPC project would work better with our product, but we agree it is a good project and are going to help." It doesn't make them the immediate profit, but it could be used to run a "we're better than they are" campaign. It wouldn't take much to cast itself as the generous benefactor and AMD as the profit greedy company just by a single large contribution.
There has to be some marketing guru at Intel saying, please, let us sell our brand as the morally superior one! I have to admit that for a minute I considered moving to pushing for AMD purchases because I want to purchase from companies doing the greater good. I rethought my stance when I considered that AMD stands to be profiting from this, I seriously doubt they are taking a loss. Now that leaves me as a consumer with two choices, the company that is profiting from the OLPC project or the company jealous of the market. With a load of cash, Intel could change that to the profit hungry company vs. the morally kind company. That kind of advertising sways me FAR further than the kind I see slathered across the magazines and websites I read.
B) Eliminate all the stupid users. This is frowned upon by society.
Isn't this a shitstorm. I especially like the fellow who coined the term "armchair economists" -- clearly, his trimester of community college economics 101 has left him quite enamored with the idea of perfect competition and all the wonderful things that it entails. Unfortunately, markets (other than a handful of notable exceptions) don't work like that. There is no perfect information; there are significant barriers to entry; consumers, and in this case governments (Third World governments, no less) don't always act in a utility-maximizing way. The addition of a competitor need not make things better, at all.
We're not dealing with free market economics here, there is a multitude of ways in which they are and can be distorted -- hell, the market doesn't even exist, yet. There is no infrastructure in place. The final consumers aren't the ones making the decisions, either -- governments are. Had I decided on which laptop I'd want as a gift instead of my father, then HP would have sold one less "entertainment laptop" with an integrated Intel Graphics Accelerator. There is a limited number of (quite possibly poorly informed, certainly if Intel can help it) customers. Government officials don't always know what the hell they're doing, and they can certainly be susceptible to meaningless marketing drivel (not to mention gifts). There is no reason whatsoever why the best product will win the competition in this case, and unless Intel can increase the value to the children, for whom the laptops are intended in the first place, enough to make up for the losses of economies of scale by OLPC (not to mention the possibility of its complete demise), a market with two participants makes no sense whatsoever.
This is quite possibly a one-shot endeavor; it has to succeed now, or it will written off as worthless. There may not be a second round -- if Intel uses its considerable capital to price OLPC out of the market by offering their laptops below cost, there may not be any coming back if Intel decide to pull out due to lack of profits later on. I haven't heard anyone argue that the Classmate is a better machine for the purpose of educating Third World children yet, and I find this most telling.
On the one hand, we have a consortium of corporations (you could go with just Intel I suppose, but I'm quite certain that Microsoft are backing the project, as does everyone else here it seems) with considerable economic and marketing muscle, whose sole purpose it is to make a profit off of their operations. On the other, we have a non-profit organization whose purpose it is to provide children with educational opportunities in parts of the world that need them; to reach as many children as possible by minimizing costs; to design a machine which best serves those goals. The latter is what's at stake here -- it doesn't take a genius to figure out which direction Intel will go in if Intel's goals (making a profit) clash with the purpose of the project.
Finally, I'm amused by the cynicism and ad hominem attacks against Negroponte. A project which he obviously feels strongly about (and believes will do a lot of good) is jeopardized by people who're in it to make a buck. If he believed that Intel's involvement would better serve the goals of OLPC, his reaction may have been entirely different. He does not, and he has every reason not to. He's snappy about it, and so am I -- and I'm not even personally involved in the project.
It's a Play Station Portable!
sometimes, nothing.
As far as I can see these are two totally different machines:
OLPC:
* Low power usage
* Tablet (With daylight screen)
* splash proof casing
* Custom OS and software for teaching
* Ad-hoc WIFI for LAN
Classmate:
* Compatability with available consumer software titles
* Compatability with peripheral hardware
* Windows networking ability
OK - so here's what we do...
Everyone who wants to buy a cheap laptop for their kids - get a Classmate.
Send the 3rd world kids OLPC
everyone happy?
(PS does this mean we're going to see an iTop from Apple?)
common and cheap. and in the kind of markets this laptop is expected the bicycles generally do have dynamos to power head lights. So this is a cheap and well understood technology. And this should be power enough from what I understand, for these laptops.
You think OLPC will come back once Intel gives up? People will have moved on, investors already got burned. There would always be the threat that Intel would respond and give them another beat down. If they already lost that battle once, why would they want to fight it again, without the headstart this time.
I don't think your last bullet exists as a real possibility.
Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others. -Groucho Marx
If you don't terribly mind reading TFA, you will note that the caption beneath the photo of the Intel "Classmate PC" says:
Intel's Classmate PC runs Microsoft Windows and Linux
So while Intel might not like the prospect that "kids around the world are going to cut their teeth on AMD", the "/ Linux" part of your comment is off the mark.
Is Negroponte doing his OLTP thing as a purely philanthropic endeavor? I know that his organization is listed as "nonprofit", but that doesn't exclude its management from cutting themselves fantastic salaries, as do many at other nonprofit organizations. His "nonprofit" may be slated to make him a very rich man indeed.
OTOH, the Intel offering, at around the same price, may well be a better product. Think of the children!
Just sent this letter through the intel "contact us" site. I doubt it will really get there or be answered or do anything. If I get an answer, I'll post it here.
m ), you stated that "There are lots of opportunities for us to work together" with regards to the OLPC project. True. Well.
Dear Mr. Barrett,
While discussing the influences of "big, evil" companies with my friends (pseudo-serious, with lots of beer and polemics as we often do), a friend of mine actually stated that these companies are not evil. In fact, they are neither evil nor good, since their single and sole purpose is to acquire money, which, in itself, is not connected to morality. Pecuniam non olet. It is common business practice to make a copy/improved version of an already existing product, but slightly incompatible (and proprietary), sell it below price to lure people into it such that they eventually become stuck with it. Although clever and subtle, people like you and me can usually see through this mechanism and decide in advance which product to choose and with which one to become stuck with: money talks; the average person's responsibility lies in her wallet (i.e. if you don't like Chinese workers to be underpaid, don't buy your deck chair made in China, although it becomes harder and harder to avoid things produced with exploitation. But that is besides the point here.). Thus, this poses (usually minor) inconveniences to our wallet and/or will affect the time we loose.
This acquires an entirely new quality when the product and people in question are such that the persons can't afford the product in the first place. Along comes a non-for-profit organization, develops the OLPC project and tries to help. These people depend on this offer. What you do now by bombarding/undercutting the OLPC project is to take away the non-for-profit part of this whole idea and make money off of people who do not have any anyway. Having power over others means the ability to impose your will on other people without them being able to do anything about this.
The OLPC project was created by a bunch of capacities and scientists who probably know a lot about education and how this needs to be done. In the BBC article (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/6675833.st
First, you created your own laptop which runs Windows and Linux and seems not compatible in any way with the OLPC laptop. The OLPC laptop has an OS that comes with it that is specifically designed for education and children. I do not see this with Windows or Linux. (We are talking about people here of which some have never used computers, so saying that you could find educational software for those OSes and install it yourself does not count.) And they will be stuck with it.
Then, your company issued comparison studies of the OLPC laptop and your own laptop --- in a study that I claim to be not-so-scientific, since Intel came up with it, Intel conducted it, Intel evaluated it, and, of course, Intel distributed it.
So. "There are lots of opportunities for us to work together". This is a true statement, for it does not say whether you actually want or will work together. And it seems to me that you probably purposely missed and ignored the most obvious opportunity: Build a laptop which is COMPATIBLE with the OLPC laptop, ACTUALLY working together with the OLPC guys. And I don't mean right down to the hardware, OLPC is linux based and therefore capable of stomaching both Intel and AMD stuff. I mean, having the same user-side specs, same looks, same GUI running, etc, etc. Heck, you could even sell it cheaper than AMD. That is, of course, if AMD does not have any exclusive deals with OLPC.
There are certainly worse problems on the world than this. All the worse, you probably knew all this anyway. Also, this letter will not do a single thing. In this sense, it's an egoistic letter, since it primarily helps me to relieve my anger. But I will decide with my wallet: I will upgrade my computer soon and it certainly won't contain Intel cores until the " lots of opportunities for us to work together" aren't blatantly inored by your company. And I hope --- also for your sake --- that many others will take the same course of action.
F. S.
Makes me wonder why there aren't more ASM programmers - you program for a specific architecture, write shitloads of code, it compiles down into some hellaciously small code, and flys on the architecture it was designed for. Machine Language wins. I run MinuetOS now on an older box - It's a pure web-browsing terminal I can put on a floppy disk. Minus the lack of Flash and Java (which is god for ignoring stupid advertisements,) the web performance is quite nice. A few things do not render properly but that'll be fixed in the next version, I'd wager.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
Payed Trolls like you are easy to spot... i am seek of PR firms faking public opinion (ho sure, three stupid comments in a row and instantly marked insightfull and later redundant... come on, just look a the posting time)
Payed Trolls like you are easy to spot... i am seek of PR firms faking public opinion (ho sure, three stupid comments in a row and instantly marked insightfull... come on, just look a the posting time)
I am seek of PR firms faking public opinion... Payed Trolls like you are easy to spot (ho sure, three stupid comments in a row and instantly marked insightfull and later redundant... come on, just look a the posting time)
... designed by a bunch of educators ... school history curriculum, desgined by educators ...
Having attended public school in the US I am not overly impressed with "professional educators". Their competency levels vary wildly. The best history teachers I had were those who had little respect for the curriculum and deviated from it. You are going to have to do far more than toss out a fancy title to be convincing.
For software, that's not new at all.
For the hardware, I'm sure there are numerous license fees as part of the component prices.
OLPC is still a full-fledged x86 system... It's got just as much legacy as anything else. The only difference really is the lack of a BIOS, and perhaps removing VESA support. An improvement, but not ground-breaking stuff.
Linux isn't a new OS. The distro for OLPC has been tuned for better performance, but it really isn't going to "fly" with extensive use of memory and CPU-intensive tech like Python, and Gecko.
They could easily have been doing that for years now. There's absolutely nothing here that's going to drastically change the economics of computers, beyond the OLPC itself. Making performance improvements isn't magic, and there's plenty of reason it hasn't been aggressively done before.
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
Ask yourself... which of the following is most likely to deliver accessible computing to the world's children?
The OLPC's ideas are interesting, but also unorthodox: Mesh Networking, XO LCDs, "View Source" buttons, etc. Combine them together, and you get a product that frankly looks a bit like a hacker's research project. Unless they're certain that this approach is the perfect way to serve underpriveleged children, they should welcome Intel's alternative take.
OLPC is a great idea, in the same way that Ansari X and Solar-Powere Racing are great ideas. You don't have to solve the problem all by yourself... instead prove the concept, inivite others to build on the work, and hope they come up with approaches that you didn't think of.
'ponte was adamant about OLPC being $100 for a near term shipping device when he was pitching this idea to fund his MIT colleagues. That's was where the 'gadget' comment was directed. What slipped under the wire was that it's $170 not $100 PC. Guess what, that's ultra low end PC territory now. People need to look through his whining and see him for the hype machine he is.
They'll fear the magical computer god.
Here's what MS thinks of the developing world.
Microsoft's commitment to the third world.
I thought competition was good for everyone, no exceptions?
Thats why the anti-monopoly laws are there.
but I guess a monopoloy on charity is a good thing... right?
wait, I'm sure OLPC got a patent on cheap laptops so they are in the clear with their complaints. --- sarcasm..
If both groups produce decent laptops for $100, wheres the problem? Neither one will have the full market, but so what?
You want what? by when? Sorry we haven't finished the time travel project yet... that's next week.
"According to the BBC, Intel has designed and begun marketing it's own low-cost laptop targeted at education in developing countries. 'Professor Negroponte, who aims to distribute millions of laptops to kids in developing countries, said Intel had hurt his mission "enormously". Speaking to US broadcaster CBS, Intels chairman denied the claims. "Were not trying to drive him out of business," said Craig Barrett. "Were trying to bring capability to young people." Mr Barrett has previously dismissed the $100 laptop as a "gadget"."
If you're going to get your apostrophes wrong, you might as well do it properly...
Thats not amazing when Moore's law(*) increases price/performance a magnitude every five years. My cell has a faster processor, more memory, and better graphics and games than my first PC and costs less.
(* OK I know the original law refers to doubling transistors on a chip every 18 months which is an increase in magnitude every five years and price performance if the chip costs remain approcimately constant.)
Which was only in response to the success of this project:
4 514,00.htm
"The HP 'people's notebook' runs Linux"
http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/0,1000000121,213
Just another example of how Microsoft leads nowhere but stomps on anything successful which does not run their Windows product(s).
LoB
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
I know that his organization is listed as "nonprofit", but that doesn't exclude its management from cutting themselves fantastic salaries
My landladies ex was the CEO of a NPO (Non-Profit Organization). That was his career his whole life. They lived in a really really nice area on his NPO salary.
She told me "Running a NPO can be pretty profitable".
- High Tech workers, please say NO to Union Carpenters, their Union sees fit to control our compensation.
From the Wikipedia article you reference: Intel has announced that its machine will cost 400 U.S. dollars, compared to $100 for the OLPC XO device. In May 2007 the price was given as "over $200".[7]
From TFA, referring to Nicholas Negroponte: He accused Intel of selling its own cut-price laptop - the Classmate - below cost to drive him out of markets.
And, later in TFA (which is the "footnote 7" in your Wikipedia article): Intel says it already has orders for "thousands" of Classmates, which currently cost over $200 (£100). Like the OLPC machine, Intel expects the price to eventually fall.
TFA also states, with respect to the OLPC: They will initially cost $176 (£90) but the eventual aim is to sell the machine to governments of developing countries for $100 (£50).
So it appears to me that the prices of the two (OLPC and Classmate) are converging, and Negroponte is angry that Intel is trying to "drive him out of markets" by selling their product below cost. Sort of a "damned if you do" (provide low-cost computers to young students) and "damned if you don't" for Intel there. Negroponte appears to just want the market share to himself, for purportedly altruistic reasons of course.
From the Wikipedia article you reference: Intel announced that it is in discussions to supply 300,000 laptops to the Mexican government, and the Brazilian government is evaluating whether to buy Intel's or the OLPC's laptop.[8] Regardless of the hardware chosen, the Brazilian government announced that it would use the Linux operating system.[9] It has been confirmed that Intel will be shipping the Laptops with Mandriva Linux, Discovery 2007 edition.[10]
just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't make them a "paid troll." Really, no one has to pay me to tell you how wrong you are.