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McCain Wants Ballmer For His Cabinet
While many people jumped all over presidential hopeful John McCain's wrong-headed view on network neutrality, few noticed his infuriating love for Microsoft. "[T]he 70 year old presidential hopeful also said that he would ask Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer to serve on his cabinet to deal with technology issues if elected. He did not however say what position Ballmer might be hired in, but did joke that he might consider him for a diplomatic position, such as ambassador to China."
But the comedy almost writes itself.
Imagine Ballmer jumping around and screaming at cabinet meetings.
Cheers,
Ethelred
Everyone wants to be Ethelred. Even I want to be Ethelred.
Revenge is sweet.
So a presidential hopeful wants somebody who at least knows how technology works to be a technology adviser? Say it ain't so! However, I do hope this happens so he is able to re-use the "Developers, developers, developers" presentation.
"It's a reverse vampire...they....they crave the sun!"
Well. Better the devil you know than the usual political hack that doesn't know anything about tech. :)
Seriously, it's got to be mostly a symbolic move to lure some business/tech folks. I think McCain is probably just throwing a name out there, and that Ballmer would be a poor choice due to his personality and the small fact that he already has, you know, a pretty full-time job. But if McCain's announcement gets voters and candidates thinking that yes, tech policy actually does matter, that's a very good thing.
Bill Gates may be chairman of Microsoft, but CEO Balmer is certainly a capable chair-man in his own right.... Please don't let Balmer anywhere near the Chief of Staff position.
Representative Ballmer has been seen throwing chairs in the House!
*pSig = NULL;
with Hu Jintao now:
throws chopsticks
SOY SAUCE! SOY SAUCE! SOY SAUCE!
Monstar L
McCain was once a Republican I could vote for: His own man. But a few years ago he became little more than a lapdog for the RNC. Makes you wonder what kind of dirt they have on him. He's not White House material. Once maybe, but not anymore. Not because I think he's become crooked, but because I think he's become weak.
no country would want our classified technology. All M$ all the time. i would hate to be in a nuclear sub and get a blue screen of death. http://www.langston.com/Fun_People/1998/1998APK.ht ml
I wonder how much the chair industry gave him for the privilage of stocking Ballmer's chair arsenal
One more reason why I'm voting for Hillary. I guess I'm going to have to switch from being a moderate Republican to a conservative Democrat, and a paint a broader yellow stripe down the middle of my back.
The appointment of Ballmer would make more sense coming from a dogmatic president like Bush. Ballmer's all about preaching the Windows dogma. The cabinet should be populated with pragmatists.
So a presidential hopeful wants somebody who at least knows how technology works to be a technology adviser? Say it ain't so!
If "knifing the baby", "cutting off oxygen" and "fucking killing" is how technology works, McCain has his man. Ballmer knows NOTHING about technology and needs the kind of business ethics class that comes with steel bars on the door.
I hope the whole thing was a bad joke, but there is no mistaking McCain's stance on network neutrality. Love of M$ goes hand in hand with approval of ATT's tactics.
DMCA, Hollings, Palladium. What might have sounded like paranoia is now common sense.
that Ballmer finally gets his chair ...?
A presidential hopeful wants someone who actively opposes fair competition/cooperation in the industry to advise him on tech policy.
This is not trollish conjecture, the anti-trust lawsuits didn't come out of thin air, and the anti-cooperation charge should require no explanation.
Allow me to also note the increasing movement among U.S. State governments to pursue open standards technology. You want to talk friction? What sort of leverage would MS have on this issue? They already threatened contract-infringement legal action against the state of California just because the state considered having an official conversation about open standards.
Regards.
On the other hand, if McCain is looking for someone to help build monopolies illegally and then illegally leverage those monopolies, then Ballmer's the dude.
McCain won't win the Republican primary. He's too soft on the vital topics of torture and deporting Mexicans to rally the ever-important base, so I'm sorry to say that I don't think we'll ever have the joy of seeing Ballmer throwing a chair at Wan Gang.
Unless, of course, somebody gets busy in GIMP.
Tags != Comments, and -1 (Troll) != -1 (I Would Respond Angrily To This Poster So They Must Be Trolling)
"Fucking Hu Jintau is a fucking pussy. I'm going to fucking bury that guy, I have done it before, and I will do it again. I'm going to fucking kill China."
Wouldn't there be a conflict of interest if the CEO of one of the country's biggest tech companies was helping determine tech policy? Certainly even someone who isn't tech-savvy can see that. It'd be a little bit like asking the CEO of an oil company to determine environmental policy. Even if Ballmer were to step down from his position (and I'm not holding my breath on that one), he probably still owns tons of MS stock. On a side note, McCain's opinion on net neutrality seems to be founded on a general small-government policy, not on a technical understanding of the situation. You can't just use a blanket "small government" argument for all things... some things work better when they're private companies, and others work better as public institutions. There's a reason why water is a public utility, power is often regulated, and software is produced mostly by private companies. Politicians should think that through before they parrot the party line on small/big government again.
I produce electronic music and write little games. Have a look.
Would be Minister of Temper Tantrums.
He is old, and he would be the oldest President if he won and he also supports the unpopular Iraq War. If Fred Thompson enters the race which is just a formality now, there will be no chance McCain will grab the Republican nomination.
" It's the End of the World as We Know It (And I Feel Fine) "
Slashdot = -1 Redundant, Asperger, kdawson FUD, Libertarian, and Linux
said that he would ask Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer to serve on his cabinet to deal with technology issues
Exactly which cabinet position is that, anyway? There is the general pool of advisors of this and that but the president's cabinet is a specific set of high level advisors and I can't think of which one might be in charge of tech issues. Is he thinking of making some new cabinet position for technology issues?
I'm not making much headway against Rudy, Romney. (and Thompson), so I need some REALLY big campaign donations.
[Insert pithy quote here]
I was for McCain in 2000, no longer. The straight talk express has been derailed. I still respect him greatly as a war veteran, and that he was 1 of 2 republics to denounce torture along with Ron Paul, in the debates - but otherwise he has become a political hack like the rest.
Mike Gravel or Ron Paul. They might be older, but Washington needs adult supervision.
Ballmer has a track record of taking a large, powerful empire and gradually frittering away its goodwill, resources, and internal cohesion by his aggressive posturing, constant confrontation, and wilful ignorance of what made it great in the first place.
The question is, how has he *avoided* becoming a member of the Republican administration for so long?
Disclaimer: I couldn't care less about US party politics, but the parallel is actually striking enough to mention.
Meta-Disclaimer: I am aware of the locution 'could care less' and I consider it WRONG WRONG WRONG!!! *throws chair*
Whence? Hence. Whither? Thither.
I doubt Ballmer would be interested in any such a position, and think McCain is merely speaking metaphorically that the type of guy he would seek, would be someone competent in technology and bussiness like Steve Ballmer, but not him literally.
People say I am a bad American because I don't vote for president.
But...
There are NO candidates that I like. I also see no value in voting for the lesser of two evils since I hate them both equally (there is no lesser) and such a vote is pointless anyway (who you vote for is still evil).
With options like these, voting is not an effective means of bringing about positive change.
Once we get rid of this completely wrong-headed "one-person-one-vote" nonsense and also start allowing a wider range of options (two parties are a horrible oversimplification of the range of political agendas at work in a nation of our size), maybe then I will see some value in voting. Until then, nothing good can come of it, so I won't participate.
Wooooooooooooo!!!! I have four words for you: Politicians, politicians, politicians, politicians, Politicians, politicians, politicians, politicians, Politicians, politicians, politicians, politicians, Politicians, politicians, politicians, politicians! Wooooooooooo!!! Maybe not the best choice for an important position...
John McCain's wretched bad taste in singing 'Bomb! Bomb! Bomb! Bomb bomb Iran...' to the tune of the the old Beach Boys hit shows he is completely unsuitable for high office. It was disrespectful to those who have given their lives in these misguided wars.
Very few Americans seem to realize that the terrorists in Northern Ireland were not bombed out of existence by the RUC and British Government, but that an American called George Mitchell brought the different parties together and negotiated a power-sharing settlement that was satisfactory to all.
-- "It's not stalking if you're married!" My Wife.
Maybe Microsoft would get a CEO who has a fucking clue.
Naaah...what am I thinking? Not while Bill still runs the show. He'd find some other nitwit he can control.
Like McCain has a snowball's chance in hell of being President anyway. First of all, he's lost it and is totally out of touch with reality, as his "Baghdad stroll" comments proved to everyone (of course, Bush is totally lost in a dream world as well and he IS President). Second, he's got all the charisma of a thug (well, actually, so does Bush). Third, George Bush is likely to declare martial law and suspend the elections after the next Mossad-orchestrated "terrorist incident" or after the upcoming Iran war starts widespread terrorism in the US. Fourth, even Hillary Clinton, the most hated woman in America after Paris Hilton (and maybe Rosie), could beat that idiot, even if she campaigned in the nude.
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
Watch the beginning of the video on this link. Mossberg asks him if the debate on frivolous software patents is anywhere on his radar and McCain says "No" in a manner that is very dissmissive of Mossberg's nerd question. I was a McCain supporter before, but after watching this interview he comes off as totally clueless about technology. You'd think he'd get someone to at least brief him before going to this event.
There are 10 types of people in this world, those who can count in binary and those who can't.
No, it has nothing to do with wanting to sound "leet" or insightful. It's a slightly amusing way to express hatred for a company. It does not make the user look retarded, unless they use it in a formal setting, which this isn't. Getting your panties in a wad when someone makes fun of a corporation on a "News for Nerds" website by altering its name makes YOU look like an idiot.
And if you're waiting for it to go away, give up. "Radio$hack" hasn't, and it's been around longer.
You'd think he'd get someone to at least brief him before going to this event.
He knew enough to think Ballmer's chair throwing antics were funny, but this is M$ only joke and all of the things he said fit well within the talking points of M$. Threatening an employee and talk about "killing Google" was serious anti-competitive stuff which should have been followed up by anti-trust investigation. If all you had was broadcast news, it might have made sense to you - shiver your thoughts. The person who briefed him was well briefed by M$/ATT/MAFIAA/DisneyElectric and the Federal government is in their pocket but there is a growing disconnect with public opinion.
DMCA, Hollings, Palladium. What might have sounded like paranoia is now common sense.
Err... Balmer is the CEO of a convicted criminal corporation.
In a country where convicted criminals can lose the right to vote, you can also go to the White House for being one? That's not really something that can be explained in english without getting into some kind of semantic Moebius loop, can it?
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
I really expected someone like McCain to know better, but someone really ought to tell him that the position of Ambassador to China is not a Cabinet-level position. It would fall under the Secretary of State, and the President still appoints all ambassadors, but ambassadors are still several rungs on the ladder down from the cabinet,...
Still, I thought I liked McCain, and thought he'd make a better President than Bush back in 2000 when I voted for him in the primary. Then again, anybody would make a better president than Bush, but that's another story. But his recent actions, namely his recent leanings towards the religious right (see speech at Liberty University), his views on net neutrality, and also his age, make me question whether he's the ideal candidate for the republican nomination.
Of course, I could always just ditch the republicans and go for somebody like Barack Obama, but even he's not perfect,... After all, it was recently exposed that he (and Senator Clinton) accepted funds from the RI^H^H^H^H MAFIAA.
... to the Klingon empire...
"We are Microsoft. You shall be assimilated. Competition is futile."
If I had a vote in the US primaries, that is. ;)
How many strikes are that by now?
- Iraq
- Immigration
- CFR
- Plain batshit crazy mood.
- Ballmer
- Erm, why bother?
Obviously, McCain is easily impressed if Microsoft does it. A few hours with Vista and he'll understand why MS shouldn't be considered impressive.
Among the Republican candidates, both John McCain and Ron Paul are the least dishonest candidates -- even if you disagree with their political positions. McCain is honest in saying that a substantial increase in troops in Iraq can transform the country. He is correct. Increasing the number of Western occupying soldiers to 400,000, pushing aside the Iraqi government, and running Iraq as a colony on the basis of Western values (e.g., equality for women) will transform Iraq into a prosperous, liberal Western nation. At the end of 20 years of occupation, we can relinquish control to democratically elected Iraqi politicians who spent most of their youth in a Western-value-dominated colony.
At the same time, Ron Paul is correct when he says that American foreign policy (like deposing the democratically elected government of Iran in the 1950s) is, at least partially, responsible for Arab attacks (like the 9/11 incident) against American citizens.
Note that neither men can win this election. American voters do not want to hear truth. Neoconservative voters especially do not want to hear the truth. They wanted war on the cheap and cheered using a pathetic force of 160,000 soldiers to occupy Iraq. Of course, these voters refuse to support making sacrifices for the war; their attitude is, "You make all the sacrifies for the war. You die for the war. As for me, I make no sacrifices. I will not support even a tax increase to pay for this war. Excuse me! I must hop in my SUV and head off to the baseball game!"
When Ron Paul told the truth during the recent debate, the Republican voters booed and condemned him. They do not want to hear about American responsibility for the 9/11 incident. In the debate, Ruddy Giuliani viciously attacked Paul and his utterance of the truth. Few politicians are as dishonest as Giuliani, so he has the best chance of being nominated as the Republican candidate. The American voter prefers hearing lies.
On the Democratic side, the least dishonest politicians are Hillary Clinton, Dennis Kucinich, and Barack Obama.
Okay. Clinton has a good chance of being president. However, she keeps saying the truth. She refuses to apologize for her vote authorizing the use of force against Iraq. Although we now know that the CIA intelligence data was wrong, supporting the use of force was appropriate since, in 2003, we believed that the intelligence data was correct. If a nation with a leader making violent threats does have weapons of mass destruction, authorizing the use of military force against this nation is appropriate -- maybe, even, desirable. Clinton voted correctly. She correctly refuses to apologize for the vote.
However, if she keeps sticking to the truth, she will ruin her chances to win in the election. The dumb American voter does not want to hear the truth. So, henceforth, Clinton should avoid talking about her vote on the use of force -- if she wants to win. She must focus on flashy superficialities -- just like Giuliani.
Of course, Fred Thompson has an excellent chance to win. Nothing is more superficial and flashy than an actor.
And you can call your airplane Air Force Vista 3.0.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Microsoft very pro-Net Neutrality? I can't stand Ballmer but I wonder how having him as a tech advisor would affect McCain's anti-netneutrality stance.
> So a presidential hopeful wants somebody who at least knows how technology works to be a technology adviser?
No, TFA says he wants Steve Ballmer.
Before you design for reuse, make sure to design it for use.
Here's a hint. It makes you look retarded. It's like a 5 year old calling somebody poopyhead or something.
Ya, childish, immature and juvenile.. I agree, this is the kind of behaviour I would only expect of our senators like John McCain.
This sort the conflict of interest is how government ends up working after a while. The FAA has become an in-government institution for the protection of the commercial airline industry, the FDA and the whole Department of Agriculture does the same for farming.
Economists call this Regulatory Capture which Wikipedia defines as
And for another great example, you say: I take it that you haven't been following Dick Cheney's energy policy proposals over the past six years. It's not a coincidence that they look like they were written by the energy industry from day one.Prime numbers are exactly what Alan Greenspan says they are -S. Minsky
we already have a VP that owns a ton of stock in a particular oil company decide who gets reconstruction contracts in Iraq...
Relax I just want some peanuts.
I see little mention here about Gore's close ties to Microsoft, who is on the board I believe and has made numerous visits to the campus...
Microsoft doesn't care who is in power. They just like power.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Department of Health & Human Services: Josef Mengele
Department of Defense: André Maginot
Department of Energy: Kenneth Lay
Department of Homeland Security: Osama bin Laden
Department of Education: Terri Schiavo
Department of Labor: Beevis
Department of State: Butthead
Department of Commerce: Karl Marx
Department of State: Groucho Marx
Department of the Treasury: Jesse James
Department of Agriculture: William R. Simonson
Department of the Interior: George Custer
Office of National Drug Control Policy: Timothy Leary
Environmental Protection Agency: Joseph Hazelwood
Department of Transportation: Joseph Hazelwood
Office of Management and Budget: Paris Hilton
Department of Housing & Urban Development: John Spartan
United States Trade Representative: John Rambo
Oh yeah, and...
Department of Justice: Alberto Gonzales
-
- - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
I'd like to know how you became chairman at MIT.
Just one of many reasons that I will be voting for Ron Paul. McCain is not a Republican. He is a Neo-Con.
When government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. - Jefferson
McCain is a veteran and a P.O.W. who experienced torture first hand.
From his perspective: If you're going to commit to a war, commit to it.
He's admittedly avoiding questions about whether we should have gone in the first place (realities being what they are, there's absolutely no way he could get the republican nomination if he went that far against the republican president.
Still, accepting that it has happened, there are basically three choices: get the hell out and deal with the fallout (becoming the more popular view), stay with your head burried in the sand (the administration policy for the last 4 years), stay and do what needs doing to do it right (McCain's choice). That's pretty common amongst Vietnam vets who are largely convinced Vietnam was winnable had the politicians not hamstrung them at every turn.
The interesting thing about McCain is his ethics on how you go about winning that war. Month on month, the war in Iraq has become more of a failure and more insurgents are turning up. Surely if you kill or capture the numbers the U.S. do, that number should go down? No, you piss away all credibility by torturing people, you piss off far more people who would never otherwise have been insurgents - torturing and abandonning ethics recruits for the other guy far better than anything he could do. As a P.O.W. who was tortured, McCain's been vocal that it's never justified (sure, you might prevent an attack that kills 5,000 now but you radicalize enough people to kill 50,000 over time).
Personally, I think the war in Iraq was an horrific lie fed to the American people - Bin Laden never had real ties, Saddam never had real ties to 911, they never tried to buy yellowcake uranium and the chemical weapons that we sold to them were destroyed after the first gulf war. I think the current method of occupation is a great way to make the situation in the middle east worse and kill a lot of young Americans along with thousands of Iraqi civilians. I also think that getting out [sensibly] is the right thing to do...
So, I'd prefer a democrat that gets us out of the war entirely. Still, if I have to have a republican that keeps us there, let's get one with an actual clue about how to do something positive.
THANK YOU.
No, really, thank you! I get sick of hearing these humorless fuckwits who get all pissed off and act like somebody using "M$" just violated Godwin's Law. I haven't used that particular abbreviation in years, but there's nothing wrong with doing it once in a while. Some people just need the stick removed from their asses.
The scary thing about Mc Cain is that he make George bush look SMART... Ewwwwww
Vote Bull Moose in 08
McCain Wants Ballmer For His Cabinet
He can have him. Personally, I have no use for that baldheaded Peter Boyle clone. Or McCain either, for that matter, and if had ever considered voting for the man I certainly wouldn't now.
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
You're a poopyhead.
Hmmm... That'd be a good idea... After all, it IS easier to throw yourself!
How far can he throw one of those?
What?
Articles presented with an infuriatingly biased slant against Microsoft annoy me far more than anything John McCain's done.
Really, I'd call this an abuse of the media. Two people have managed to leverage Slashdot to bludgeon its audience with their particular opinions.
You have a good point, but as evidence that big corporations are invulnerable you cite... Radioshack?
t _figure_out_how
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11409391/
http://www.theonion.com/content/news/even_ceo_can
As I remember they sided with Google et al. But it is one isue out of many, everyone has disagreements.
McCain, Clinton, Rudy, Obama, it does not matter. Unfortunately it took segregationist Governor Wallace to reveal the truth that "there's not a dime's worth of difference between" Republicans and Democrats. The Democrats willingly went along with the War in Iraq, suspension of Habeas Corpus, detaining protesters, banning books like "America Deceived' from Amazon, stealing private lands (Kelo decision), warrant-less wiretapping and refusing to investigate 9/11 properly. They are both guilty of treason.
Vote for Dr. Ron Paul and stop this nonsense.
Last link (before Google Books bends to gov't Will and drops the title):
America Deceived (book)
People do it because it seems to get the astroturfers panties in a wad.
evil is as evil does
I mean, in medieval times it was good custom to have a court jester.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
...John McCain is not going to be choosing cabinet officials anytime soon. The right-wing extremists who dominate the GOP primaries still mistrust him for publicly calling them out in 2000, and the centrists who loved McCain back then have since been alienated by his blatant pandering to the right-wing extremists. All McCain has left to attract voters is a lingering nostalgia for the pre-Dubya, pre-9/11 days when political moderates roamed the earth and had not yet been pulverized into extinction.
You are requesting secret files about yourself. Cancel or allow?
You can hold down the "B" button for continuous firing.
"Because every Republican administration needs a Dick Cheney"
Just what we need; an old fart with another Dick Cheney personality in his cabinet.
America's new strategy: throw chairs at the terrorists! Sick Ballmer on them - they wish they'd never been born!
Of course Gore and Jobs are well known to be close friends as well, but so are Gore and Bill. You are correct Gore is on Apple's board, but that would not nessecarily preclude him from being on Microsoft's as well...
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
If anyone wants to put Steve Ballmer in a cabinet I'm all for that.
-- thinkyhead software and media
Does "Conflict of Interest" have any meaning in US politics?
I thought it would be an utterly obvious case of No, he can't help formulate technology policy for the government because, obviously, he's a bit biased towards one particular company.
The grandparent post is correct. 400,000 Western troops in Iraq is, proportion-wise, what Japan had stationed in Taiwan for a decade.
Software patents are not on any candidate's radar this election cycle. There is the war, there is health care. A hundred other issues that draw more passion then anything the geek can offer.
IT is one of the most stressful things people have to deal with. Computers are part of everyone's daily lives and the suck of non free software is too. A politician that does not realize this is out of touch. One that can't harness it is not a leader.
How can I convince you that software patents are important? Easy, it's your freedom, wellbeing and prosperity. The war is important. Declining standards of living is important and healthcare is part of that. Computers touch on these and all 100 of your other issues, but the bigger connector is run away corporate power and greed. Your computer needs to be free if you are ever to learn the truth about wars, healthcare and standards of living. Without a free press to inform you of your leader's dirty work, you will continually suffer unjust laws, wars and declining standards of living.
Laws like the DMCA and other crazy copyright attacks are both a symptom and a cause of corporate power. They are a symptom because free people would never knowingly vote their rights away. People voted that way because they were lied to. They were told that copyright and patent laws were "enablers." We understand the lie because our computers and the internet are a relatively free place. They are a cause because they can be used to take your freedoms away, which will leave you ignorant. Make no mistake you can worse off even than people before the internet if the internet is made non free. Before the internet, people had printed newspapers but you will only have broadcast and non free internet.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
How would you violate Godwin's Law? By not ever talking about Nazis?
Overcharge billions, destroy competitors, $soft approved ideas/tactics only, FUD as our foreign policy
How will this make America safer?
Yes that is how the richest man on the planet got that way, But I don't like the way it makes my country look to the rest of the planet.
I think /.'ers need to see these stories, but kdawson needs to get a better source.
Web2.0: I love when people Flickr my cuil and digg my boingboing until my google is reddit and I start to yahoo
With Ballmer's ability to jump around he'd be harder to shoot in the face...
The race isn't always to the swift... but that's the way to bet!
And by "Real Republic" I mean that he's proving that he's enough of a corporate whore to win the Republican nomination.
He may be from my state, but there's no way in hell I'll vote from him and I don't care what it says on my voter registration card, I was just too lazy to change it. I don't have to (and I sure as hell won't) be voting for him.
and "Insane" McCain and the "Crazy Talk Express". . . a match made somewhere or other, I'm sure. They deserve each other.
Tech Public Policy stuff
Monkeyboy at his worst is probably saner and better-connected to reality than anyone I know of on the GOP ticket even on their good days.
Tech Public Policy stuff
And here I thought McCain wanted him for "Chair man" of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.
That is all.
Eric Schmidt gets the death penalty and Linus Torvalds is sent to GITMO.
For politicians of course the political party is different as political parties represent like minded individuals working together to win (too often their win and our loss) and in the case of the evangelical corporate bunko artists party (aka republicans, they will eventually become actual conservative republicans again it is just likely to take a decade or so).
This guy Mcain is obviously a fool, left to their own devices, corporations drift to the lowest conmen denominator and become total destructive in their greed. Anti-trust did not invent itself but purely came about because of monopolistic tendencies of corporations, if fact every single law that limits the competitive behaviour of corporations came about as a result of the harm being done to the general public.
What of course is really pathetic in the McCain case is the virtual public begging for campaign funds from Steve Ballmer, oh so sickeningly weak, but then Ballmer fawned all over the Chinese president so that China would favour Windows, so he most probably loves it. Could you just imagine Ballmer as VP, windows compulsory on all PCs, it would be considered they act of a traitor to criticize M$ and it would be $1000.00 for the compulsory annual licence renewal fee (unfortunately this is not a joke).
Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
Being a professional political candidate (which is all elected officials are these days) is not unlike being an actor. It's even more superficial and flashy than acting, except you never admit it's fake. Come to think of it, no wonder Jesse Ventura was so qualified.
In Repressive Burma, it's not just your connection that dies. slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=314547&cid=20819199
I'm not sure what chair he'll hold, but I doubt he'll hold it for long...
I thought Taiwan was a full-blown prosperous democracy.
In Repressive Burma, it's not just your connection that dies. slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=314547&cid=20819199
However, if you were older than 20 years old, you would remember how that abbreviation came about. Sit down for a history lesson, son. (I assume you are immature, by your use of the immature "hacker-speak" term "leet". The word is ELITE, idiot!).
That style of abbreviation originally started with an extremely popular online service called CompuServe in the late '70s and into the 80's, on its "CB" "chat rooms" (before most people knew of the internet). People would end up getting huge bills (several hundred dollars or more per month), by losing track of how much time they were spending in CompuServe's CB chat (there was no such thing as "unlimited" service back then). This caused people on those chat "channels" to start spelling CompuServe with a "$" for the "S", i.e. Compu$erve, and that naturally eventually got shortened to "C$" (very confusing to BASIC programmers, but I digress...)
So, I think now you can see that it was a natural progression for those in the know to start referring to MicroSoft as "Micro$oft", and then simply "M$", in a tip-of-the-hat to the nostalgic ol' Compu$erve days of yore.
Therefore, it is YOU that show your ignorance, by not understanding the underlying historical significance of the "M$" abbreviation, bucko.
Like I needed another reason to NOT vote for this egocentric attention whore? I meant McCain.
If Ballmer makes it into the McCain Administration, Left-leaning states will be referred to as the "Blue States of Death".
I call Patent!
Knowing Google's lust for data collection, the Soviet Union is still alive and well inside the psyche of Sergey Brin....
Professional political candidates do exist, and I don't think that they're that great of a thing. I think a leader should have experiences outside of government from which to draw upon to make them more effective. The problem I have with someone attacking a candidate simply for being an actor is in this case two-fold. First of all, Thompson has been an attorney and lobbyist which means that he has held other careers which give him direct insight into dealing with government... But most of all...
The first comment effectively is the same thing as "You're a drama geek, you can't be smart, and you cannot be trusted." What the heck is that?! Do we neccesarily need a governement full of professional statesmen, plumbers, or car mechanics? I'm sure no one here would endorse a government full of lawyers. So why look at someone's job and make a snap judgement on what kind of leader they would be?
The majority of the Slashdot community would all be insulted if someone said... You work in IT... You're a geek... You're ugly... probably live with your parents, don't have a girlfriend... you're going to die alone... and you don't make a difference in anyone's life. Those statements wouldn't be any less outrageous if you replaced IT with carpentry, banking, or any other profession including acting.
I love the fact that my original comment has been moderated "over-rated" by most of the people out there. I guess some people are more interested in censoring good discussion and thinking that makes them "right".
Before you flame me, you have to see the abysmal state of federal IT systems. A federal CTO that REALLY understood what was going on and could reallocate the resources to fix the problems would be a HUGE boon to efficient government. Feds are like 90% MS anyway, so it's really not a huge conflict of interests. Somebody like Balmer (might?) get it. Personally I would prefer some sharp Google exec that understood the nature of information, but I'll take what I can get.
People who think they know everything really piss off those of us that actually do.
I read `McClain Wants Ballmer For His Cabinet` hahahhaah
He should hire Steve Jobs, that way when things aren't going our way in China he can just sit there and bitch at them personally until they are.
He could also get all of the other Cabinet members to dress in a classy manner, and use Macs.
Make America grate again!
I thought we were trying to limit our government's weapons of mass destruction suppository...
Allowing Ballmer near all the chairs in the senate, congress and white-house! This is madness!
Ginga no Rekshiya Mata Each page.
as much as we all malign microsoft i think we can mostly all conclude that bill gates is a pretty smart and negotiation savvy guy. also, he's got a much less demanding job... so why not ask him to work in washington?
McCain keeps weighing in on the wrong side of every issue.
There are some issues that the only people who care about them are ones that will cost you votes if you choose wrong. McCain seems to have an unnatural ability to zero in on those issues and to pick the wrong side.
Abortion, gun control, campaign finance reform and net neutrality are all kicking McCain's ass.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
It would crash.
There has however been a strong relationship between both Gates and Gore (and Jobs) in the past.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I was asked by a friend of mine why I am voting for Hillary Clinton. My answer is that I am anti-american. I wasn't born here, I don't really like this country. I respect it, specially since I am saving up money to go back and have a nice life there. So I looked for the worst candidate possible, and of all of them, it's gotta be Hillary. I mean, if you vote for her, you will also get Bill Clinton. But the fact that McCain has chosen someone like Ballmer just might make me go republican on this one.
Imagine Steve Balmer walking around a Baghdad marketplace. I'd like to see that!
Maybe the US government should get Ballmer to develop their anti-illegal immigration enforcement policy. Call it something like American Genuine Advantage. If you're found to be here illegally, you're banned from participating in key activities and are constantly harassed until you pony up the dough. Of course, in catching the illegals, possibly millions of legitimate citizens would also be marked "not genuine", but they can just reapply for citizenship. It's better to be safe than sorry.
Seriously, I don't want Ballmer within 100 miles of any legislative building.
At the recent All Things Digital conference, McCain stakes out his position against Net Neutrality: "When you control the pipe, you should be able to get profit from your investment." Not surprising, really, since the very companies who control the pipes, the big telecoms, are McCain's top contributors -- see http://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/contrib.asp ?CID=N00006424&cycle=2002
Also interesting: in the same article, McCain says he would hire Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer to a cabinet position. After the big telecoms and Goldman Sachs, Microsoft was McCain's top contributor.
So much for McCain's rep as a champion of campaign finance reform.
-A
Being a professional political candidate (which is all elected officials are these days) is not unlike being an actor. It's even more superficial and flashy than acting, except you never admit it's fake. Come to think of it, no wonder Jesse Ventura was so qualified.
Given the fact that what we need right now is a return to diplomacy, doesn't it make sense to place someone in our highest office who communicates well? He's been around since the Nixon era (but I haven't read any negative articles about his involvement in anything) and hasn't been involved in any serious controversies. Why not him?
At the end of the day, parent's send their kids to MIT so they can go work for the likes of Steve Ballmer, and for the Islamic world to blame American interventions of 50 years ago for its problems today would be as silly as Americans blaming the British destruction of Washington DC for the American Civil War. They are completely unrelated.
Ballmer has plenty of people that could be EE chairs at MIT working for him. Technology is not just about solving engineering problems, it is about putting the right people together, with the right resources, and the right management, to create something that people are actually willing to pay for. Running that sort of an organization effectively is a talent in its own right, and that Microsoft is able to recover from its own mistakes and not blow its lead given determined competition speaks well of Ballmer's abilities. Windows 95 could have been Windows Edsel, Visual Studio.NET could have been Borland dBase for Windows, but, they weren't. Thus far, there really hasn't been a genuinely disastrous release of Windows, and that's a remarkable feat.
In contrast, the EE chair of MIT has a much smaller budget to work with, and by nature, less people. Further, he doesn't have any real sales goals to achieve, other than explore, and thus, completely lacks any context or understanding of what it actually takes to transform knowledge gained by science into something that people can actually use. All they have to do is continually kick out peer reviewed papers, staying at the forefront, and that, they can do, by keeping a big endowment to ensure they have the latest technological tools produced by corporations.
Similarly, your statements about Ron Paul and American Foreign policy continually miss the point. If one can argue that American involvement in Iran in the 1950s laid the groundwork for Iranian hatred of the USA, could we not also argue that centuries of Islamic invasions of Europe also led to the American involvement in Iran in the 1950s? I mean, the USA NUKED JAPAN TWICE, and Japan has bounced back rather swimmingly.
What the Islamic world seems to forget, as they rattle off all of the supposed abuses against the Islamic people, is that, for the last 30 years, the United States has been writing a check for several hundred billion dollars a year to them. Every year, in exchange for the extraction of oil, the Islamic people get -BILLIONS- of dollars from Americans. Were that money invested properly, the Islamic world could have easily solved all of its problems that contribute to its woes today. Where is the regional solution to a chronic water problem? Where is the investment in education and research? If, the Saudi princes had invested their billions into schools to teach their children calculus rather than memorize the Quran, there would be no Al Qaeda and the Islamic world would be well on its way to first world status. But instead, they take this money, build each other giant palaces, and then hire a bunch of british engineers to do publicity stunts like build kilometer high skyscrapers, and somehow, it is the fault of the United States that their people are a bunch of meteorite worshipping idiots.
This is my sig.
Just ignorance of the proper legal terminology. Few laypeople know the difference between "criminal" and "illegal".
"Ballmer is the head of an organization that has based its success on illegal activities" is the proper phrasing, if somewhat awkward.
Are you a professional or just really good at spinning things?
In Repressive Burma, it's not just your connection that dies. slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=314547&cid=20819199
The qualifications are there -- http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/exec/steve/defa ult.mspx
Ballmer was born in March 1956, and grew up near Detroit, where his father worked as a manager at Ford Motor Co. He graduated from Harvard University with a bachelor's degree in mathematics and economics. While in college, Ballmer managed the football team, worked on the Harvard Crimson newspaper as well as the university literary magazine, and lived down the hall from fellow sophomore Bill Gates. After college, he worked for two years at Procter & Gamble Co. as an assistant product manager and, before joining Microsoft, attended Stanford University Graduate School of Business.
All he needs is to serve in the Arabian Horse Association....
And then
- RMS, Linus, Moglen et al get sent to Guantanamo after being labelled as Terrorists.
- Linux would be declared a weapon of the Axis of Evil and outlawed.
- Distribution of source code for any reason would be ranked alongside Conaine dealing
- THe US Cust off internet access by its residents to sites outside the 50 states and censors every piese of email that move asscross its borders (side effect is that spam is reduced by 99.99%)
- Sites like Groklaw would be closed down as the 1st Ammendment was modified to stop and criticism of products that come from Redmond WA.
- IBM moves offshore. Other companies follow suit. Note that like many US Tech companies, IBM earns more money outside the USA than within it
- US Builds 50m high wall along its borders with Canada and Mexico in the interestes of its citizens 'Safety and Security'
- Economy goes belly up. Mass unemployment results
- 2nd Revolution take place. New 'Boston Tea Party' happens. Potomac gets filled up with flying chairs.
Only joking...(I hope)
I can't imagine why it would do that. If there actually are astroturfers posting to ./ (I'm highly sceptical of the claim that a company would actually pay someone to post to /.), they should be glad that the people who hate them tend to rant and rave, and use silly, childish abbreviations like "M$". When one side of an argument appears to be dominated by 12-year-olds, the other side naturally gains credibility.
/. readers. However, if they're not actually astroturfers, but just Microsoft fanboys, then it's another matter, because then they're likely to be just as irrational in defending their chosen platform as the Linux fanboys.
In other words, if these supposed astroturfers exist, they ought to encourage the more juvenile Linux advocates, since it makes Linux users in general look bad to other
The first few times I saw "M$" used, I found it slightly irritating, in the same way that other misspellings are irritating, but I quickly got used to it. For me, it's now rather like the misuse of "loose" to mean "lose", i.e. it leads me to slightly lower my opinion of someone, but it doesn't bother me, and nor is it serious enough that I'd ignore an otherwise valid point because of it.
After saying this, you spent 30 minutes of your life rationalizing "M$". Way to go, fucktard.
(you only need 51% in the US of A)
Actually, you don't even need that, you just need to win enough electoral votes.
Somehow, and I have no idea how, over time, the relationship between American and Chinese politicians has become one trying to prove they respect the other instead of discussing issues. Now that the presciendt has been set, it appears that without some serious effort, this relationship will be forced to stay on the same path as it is now.
It should not be necessary for the Whitehouse to spend weeks and months in advance planning an agenda relating to diplomatic dinners and discussions. The current system requires that both the United States and China spend weeks or months producing something similar to the script of a play that is recited during their visits with one another instead of actually taking enough time to try and understand each other and make at least some progress through conversation.
I think more than enough jokes have been made over the history of Western politics regarding decisions made by the presidents' wives in bed or more applicably to decisions made over friendly games on a golf course. Wouldn't it just make more sense to take the relationship between China and America down a notch, drop a bit of the formalities and stick the right people in the right place together to try and make things better.
Given the importance of the relationship between China and the Western world today, in a time where the USA has more or less forcefully taken front seat at any negotiation table with China, we should change how it works for the best interest of all parties? This is no longer a time where the American president will represent the USA, but a time where the parties involved seem to believe that the president of the USA is in fact speaking on behalf of the Western world. He is in fact brokering deals, agreements, and contracts with the Chinese regarding UN issues, NATO issues, and most importantly now WTO issues.
It is critical at this time that any candidate that would dare make such a statement is showing a lack of respect to China, treating them as a dog that needs a master. His comment while humorous to many, including myself, destroyed his credibility as a candidate since at this point in time, his goal should be as a peacemaker and already he has publicly demeaned America's greatest economic threat before even coming to office.
As a real suggestion, wouldn't it be a better idea in the future that America searches high and low for a diplomat for China that does in fact hold the relationship between China and America in the highest regard. Wouldn't it also be better to ask the Chinese to establish an office of American affairs that are in fact interested in breaking the ice. Give them both offices on a golf course and send them out there to become friends, joke with one another, learn from one another and then help their superiors better understand one another.
Make it so that the Chinese and the Americans are required to keep at least one additional interpretter on hand at all times. This interpretters' job would be to translate not language but culture. This could help the Americans and Chinese be less likely to misinterpret humor or friendly banter as acts of disrespect or aggression.
So, in my opinion, although this candidate may have many other qualifications, so long as jobs and production factories are being outsourced to China at an alarming rate, I believe a candidate that shows lack of respect for China publicly before taking office should never make it to office. Though now that I have had a taste of his performance, I'll look forward to seeing if he's always this funny or if it was just a one time thing
Exactly; Godwin's Law is formulated as a natural law, not as a rule of behavior. You do not so much "violate" or "obey" it as "reinforce" or "avoid reinforcing" it .
The chair throws you.
At one time, I rather liked McCain but since mention of this, if it's true and he does want to engage Ballmer, then this is done and over. God help us if Ballmer gets anywhere near governmental power. This is the guy who thinks that all of us with iPods are music thieves!!!
So; who left in the campaigns..??? We're slowly and steadily whittling them off..
All content in this message is copyright (c) 2008. All rights reserved. RIAA is prohibited here.
"Nevermind the fact that Thompson has spent more time in elected office than Clinton or Obama"
Ignoring that you're just a flaming troll, it's important to consider THAT YOU'RE WRONG.
Thompson spent 8 years as a Senator. 1994 to 2002. Obama was elected in Illinois in 1996, and has held elected office contiguously since then. That's 8 years for Thompson, 11 for Obama. And, for what it's worth, 7 for Clinton.
Sorry. Try Again.
Ballmer is not the best techie that Microsoft has to offer, and at Microsoft his tenure has been marked by little brilliance in that area. It has been more a time of conservitism and consolidation, albeit a rather sucessful one to judge by the numbers. Sucessful but uninspiring.
He is very smart (didn't I read somewhere that he had 1600 SATs?). I think there would be a better place for him in a cabinet then the Technology remit. That job I would offer to a Jobs or a Gates, those guys clearly understand future technologies.
Or did you mean "legislators, legislators, legislators, legislators..." /woooooooo!
You take cream in tea? What kind of sick bastard are you?
---
We spoke for about a half an hour. I don't recall a thing we said. - Colorblind James Experience
Oh, I don't know, perhaps by finding a loophole whereby you can call someone a Nazi without actually calling them a Nazi?
It is entirely unsupportable that shooting someone else would not have been the cause of much hooey palooie back in 'The Day'. 'The Day', contrary to popular belief, was much like 'Today', in that things such as shooting each other were, in fact, the cause of some talk, and were apt to form the opinions of people. Take Aaron Burr and Alexander Hamilton's crossing of pistols - that is still talked about today, and so categorically not like any other day.
Cheney shot a man in the face. That man later apologized to Cheney. Liberals, Conservatives - anyone is allowed to form their opinion based on these facts, and fond remembrances of days long past - actually, days never having been - does not remove that right. Furthermore, may I recommend you grow a thicker skin. Administrations have suffered the slings and arrows of vile humors for much smaller events.
[Ego]out
He'd have to be ambassador to Japan, not China. They don't use chairs in Japan.
Your ignorance of history is utterly amazing. You can't put Iraq in the same class of destruction that was Germany or Japan post world war II.
You claim Iraq was firebombed? Really? Firebombing involves thousands of bombs and hundreds of aircraft and kills 100,000 people at a pop. Show me the city in Iraq that was bombed like Dresden, or Berlin.
And, once again. Iraqis are killing each other! That's not America's fault. Nobody is making them do it. They do it on their own. The civil war is not the fault of the United States. If the Iraqi people truly wanted peace, they would have had it already.
Where was the civil war in Germany after World War II? Where was the civil war in Japan after World War II? It didn't happen.
This is my sig.
Dick Cheney had to do that with Halliburton, IIRC.
How can you believe that for this long?
Hmm, what's this deferred compensation? Stock options? Look! Look over here! shiny!
Imagine if Ballmer could encourage the president to declare war on a country that doesn't do enough to fight software piracy. Or influence other policies such as sacntions, economic warfare, etc. Straighten up or Microsoft's airforce will bomb you...
I'm registered republican, and after seeing this I don't know if I have anyone I can vote for in the primaries. I don't suppose they'll give me a "none of the above" option?
Yes, he's not on the board (I should have checked the website first as you noted). However Al Gore has had a lot of contact with Microsoft in the past, and so the basic point I was making still stands. You and others are getting too wrapped up in the minutia and missing the main point.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
If I could add one more comment to this already burgeoning discussion, it is that many people are under impression that Microsoft actually did do gigantic, mind-boggling technical feats of computer programming that brought the world miraculously forward. (And of course, many geeks think Microsoft has just stolen and repackaged things, which also isn't true)
So there is a lot of people, many of them older, or just not in touch with the technological community, who really believe that Microsoft is an 'innovator'. Even when they know better, and can study and find out that all of the things that Microsoft put into their operating system were already floating around, there is still a mystique attached to Microsoft (and computers in general).
It is just one of the many little things that might become a bigger issue in 2008 than the things we think will be big issues.
Hopefully I didn't put any [] around my words.
You obviously haven't been there lately. It's fast becoming a socialist state.
So we know Ballmer throws chairs... so now he's moved on to cabinets?
Multiplayer Gaming (defined): Sitting around, discussing single-player games with my friends, at the bar.
I know that Bill Gates is, but...
Well, I don't like the guy (Ballmer), but calling him a Republican might be a bit extreme...
I mean, Steve Jobs is a Democrat (and a fairly progressive one, at that), not all CEOs are conservative. Do we know for sure?
Multiplayer Gaming (defined): Sitting around, discussing single-player games with my friends, at the bar.
Voters, voters, voters, voters.
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(it won't let me post the entire refrain unfortunately.)
thegodmovie.com - watch it
How is that different from now? I for one avoid spending money that I don't have to! I do agree that inflation gives an impetus to spend/invest money, as just holding on to money reduces its value. But the effect would be quite minimal. If deflation was for example 3% per annum, would that really affect spending?
Hypothetical Consumer A wants a candy bar that costs 1$. By holding off his purchase by a year, he'll be able to buy the candy bar for 97 cents, saving 3 cents. Would it be worth it to hold off on buying a candy bar for a year? I doubt it, but maybe there are some who think so.
Hypothetical Consumer B is planning on buying a 100 000$ house. By holding off on his purchase for a year, he'll be able to buy the house for 97 000$, saving 3000$. Is being without the house for a year worth 3000$? Again, maybe for some people, but I think the majority would ignore the small savings.
Now, some might point out that now buying a house is a bad investment, because your house is losing 3% of it's value annually. However, this is false, as the value of the house is not variable, it's the amount of dollars you get in exchange that changes. You have to keep in mind that also other things have gone down 3% in price, so you'll still get the same amount of purchasing power for your house. The same is true in reverse, if the price of your house only goes up as much as inflation, your house hasn't gained any value. This of course doesn't take in consideration other effects that might affect the value of a house, outside of inflation/deflation.
I already touched that issue in the post you responded to. There is nothing that says interest rates have to be above zero. If for example deflation was 3% per annum, lenders might borrow money to people at a rate of -2%. This would give the lenders a margin of one percentage point, and would make the issue you mention moot.
As of 2001, it was estimated that all the gold ever mined totaled 145 000 tonnes. According to wikipedia, about 370 tonnes were mined in the first five years of the California Gold Rush, which equals 0.25% of the world's gold supply. Assuming a similar gold rush today, it would inflate a gold standard based currency by a yearly average of 0.05% for the first five years. To call that hyperinflation is absurd.
The problem is, that the ones with most to gain from inflation, are also the ones with the keys to the printing press. The US government operates on huge budget deficits, and holds a mind-boggling 8.8 trillion dollars in debt. This is why proponents of a gold standard talk of a inflation tax. The government inflates the money supply to their own gain, redistributing purchasing power from citizens to itself. The government would have to be crazy to start burning dollars, the public debt would go from a big problem to US bankruptcy!
Exactly, a universal gold standard is a fixed exchange rate! When the ratio between currency A and gold is fixed, and the ratio between currency B and gold is fixed, then the ratio between currency A and currency B is also fixed. However, the German hyperinflation did not happen because of the gold standard, it happened because Germany went off the gold standard during the first world war. After 1914, the exchange rate between the dollar and the German papiermark was no longer fixed, it was variable. The method of varying the exchange rate was through printing money. Because of the huge war reparations Germany was forced to pay to the victors of the war, their government used inflationary policies to pay off their debt, thus taking the purchasing power of Germans and using it to pay the debts. This had devastating effects on the German economy, and had its part in getting the Nazi party to power.
Having the yuan pegged to the dollar at an undervalued exchange rate has two effects: it keeps the Chinese people's purchasing power artificially low, and it raises the purchasing power of the dollar artificially high. This leads to a huge current account deficit, because Chinese goods cost less in the US, and US goods cost more in China. If the dollar moved to a gold standard, it would at first fix the current account deficit because of the inflationary pressure within the dollar. If the Chinese responded by readjusting their peg so that it was undervalued at the same ratio again, it would shift the inflationary pressure on the US economy to the Chinese economy! Imagine the consequences for the Chinese government if the Chinese people would suddenly be faced with hyperinflation. The communist regime would end up in front of their own firing squads.
As for the US getting sick of the huge undervaluation of the yuan, that is not going to happen. Certainly, the American people are getting sick of losing all their manufacturing jobs to the Chinese due to the cheap price of labor in China, and want the peg cut. The problem is, that the US government has no interest in removing the peg whatsoever. In this situation, the government can grow the money supply without causing much inflation, because the peg has a deflationary effect on the dollar. This leads to the situation we have today, where the Chinese people are essentially funding the US government through a redistribution of the yuan's purchasing power to the dollar. There is no way the US government is going to do anything to jeopardize the peg. Any demands politicians make to the Chinese government are lip service to the constituents at best, and the Chinese government is loosening the peg only to prevent their own economy from overheating.
The UK didn't devalue their currency per se, they were forced to go off the gold bullion standard because of their inflationary policies. During the time period, countries with the gold standard could cheat the system if all the participants inflated their money supply simultaneously, thanks to the central bank system of setting interest rates. If only one country inflated, it resulted in a net loss of gold to the countries that didn't inflate. During the time period, the UK inflated their currency a lot, and thanks to most of the Europea
Looks to me like he made a mistake with respect to campaign finance and then worked very hard to make sure it didn't happen again. What did I miss?
Patrick Doyle
I mod down every jackass who puts his moderation policy in his sig. Oh, wait a sec....
And Hilary's number goes up when you consider appointed office too.
Please, for the good of Humanity, vote Obama.