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Microsoft Patents the Mother of All Adware
An anonymous reader writes "Ars Technica has an article on the mother of all adware patents filed by Microsoft: 'It's such a tremendously bad idea that it's almost bound to succeed. Microsoft has filed another patent, this one for an "advertising framework" that uses "context data" from your hard drive to show you advertisements and "apportion and credit advertising revenue" to ad suppliers in real time.' Ars discusses this disturbing concept, which was originally unearthed by Information Week and we first discussed last week."
I wonder, if my hard drive is filled with pirated Microsoft software, will they show me advertisements for The Pirate Bay?
this is a horrible idea. Using the client's whole computer, hard drive contents included, to sell ads is just wrong.
Show this to your friends and family that don't know what a real hacker is
We can only hope that this makes it into an early service pack for Vista, and that Microsoft announces it poorly, resulting wholesale defection of their corporate user-base to Apple and Linux-based desktops.
Heh heh. This means I will be receiving ads for kracked serialz for Microsoft products, based on my hard drive contents.
Fortunately nothing changes for most geeks, because Adblock filters most ads. :)
.hosts file as well, so it will know what ads I don't want to see? Which is all of them?
!#@%*)anks for hanging up the phone, dear.
This is one of the rare times that I approve of a software patent, for two reasons:
1. This patent will prevent other people from doing the same thing, and
2. If MS actually does this, more people will leave Windows behind.
Thomas Galvin
to use linux. Don't we have enough already?
Microsoft wants to compete with Google...
Isn't this exactly what Google Desktop and Google Mail and Google Cookies do?
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
According to the patent application, "The benefit to the user is the perception that the ads are more relevant, and therefore, less of an interruption."
For me, ads that look more like the content that I actually want to read are more of an interruption because it takes me longer to differentiate between the important content and the crap.
how is this possible? does this not carry the stigma of illegality?
who here can actually tell me what the microsoft antitrust cases actually did? didn't microsoft lawyers get caught red handed faking video evidence? if so, why was this brushed under the table and why is internet explorer still embedded?
Microsoft has such a cynically exploitative view of the market that they truly prove that large corporations can be psychotic.
While the rest of the economy maintains some kind of pretense of "ethics", Microsoft seem to have decided that not a single rule counts. They mock the EU's anti-trust actions, they rape the ISO process, and they screw their loyal customers more often than that guy in Oz.
No-one is going to shed a tear when they are up against the wall.
My blog
The only reference implementation is for Linux.
Maybe, in another dimension, Microsoft is patenting this technique in order to squelch it. It could actually be used to sue adware producers that violate the patent.
According to TFA:
"The software would also free advertising from its traditional browser yoke. "A word processor may display a banner ad along the top of a window, similar to a toolbar, while a graphical ad may be displayed in a frame associated with the application. A digital editor for photos or movies may support video-based advertisements," the patent application says.
So no, Adblock in its current form wouldn't do squat.
this might be the mother of all adware, but MS might get to say "who's your daddy?"
Clearly MS won't follow this since it does not fit their business model. Like most of their patents they are patenting this so others wont be able to do it easily.
Another reason to avoid upgrading to Windows Vista I guess.
Seriously, I understand that there's a certain amount of information that needs to be passed to Microsoft from Windows in order to fascilitate auto-updates, and maintain their (somewhat silly) protection against the "ship of Thesius" computer upgrade. That's all well and good, and understandably within the jurisdiction of the OS.
Scanning my harddrive for its contents in order to advertise to me is NOT something that is within the bounds of an OS's MO. This is an invasion of privacy.
Thunderclone: ONE MAN ENTERS! TWO MEN LEAVE! ONE MAN ENTERS! TWO MEN LEAVE!
They will access my personal data on my hard drive without my authorization for monetary gain.
It is interesting that it is possible to patent a crime in the US.
134340: I am not a number. I am a free planet!
Oh no! My Windows machine screen is full up with porn advertisements
Wouldn't it somewhat prevent other people from creating the same sort of Adware? If it gets approved, would MS send a floor of lawyers over to some Adware company and demand payments for infrigement? Would lawsuits or potential lawsuits scare enough of these scumbags (not the MS Scumbags) away from the business?
This shall be an interesting one to follow.
--- http://www.keything.com
...I say let them. There is no way my organization would ever stand for this sort of data mining; They'll leave windows far far behind before this happens.
That said, for a company of MS's financial strength, filing a patent is a trivial process; Therefore they will patent what they think of and consider it a resource to be used for whatever purpose at a later date. I highly doubt they actually have plans to put this in an OS.
I've been wrong before of course.
Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
Frankly, I'm in favor of having all of my advertising porn themed.
"*Bip* See Natalie Portman naked!"
"*Bip* Hot nude women!"
"*Bip* All amateur action!"
"*Bip* Hot midget-on-'67 Red Sox pitcher action!"
"*Bip* Come on, quit pretending. We know you have 137GB of meticulously sorted porn, we're just pointing you where you would go anyway!"
"Seven Deadly Sins? I thought it was a to-do list!"
Microsoft Malware Protection Center opens for business. I wonder if the two will be compatible.
I admit it, I didn't read the articles.
Something good could come out of it. Perhaps it will reduce the number of adware distributors due to the cost of licensing this crap.
Or perhaps, more adware will be in the default install of Windows.
Maybe they just want more ad revenue for their MSN site.
Time will tell
So, does the potential inclusion of advertising banners in my Windows OS, in Microsoft Word & Excel, and the like mean that Microsoft will just give us this stuff for free? I know it's posh to villify Microsoft and everything, but it'd be tough to swallow paying for software and/or OS supported by, or perhaps entirely funded by, advertising revenue.
It seems apparent to me Microsoft is filing ad patents because they intend to release a free or almost free version of a Vista-lite that's loaded with ad serving software to cover the expense loss. Inserting ad malware into their flagship product would be suicide. They're not that stupid.
Microsoft probably intends to compete with free Linux with a free Windows OS.
Camping on quad since 1996.
Wait until Intel figures out they can embed ad delivery system right into a CPU.
Yet an other good reason not to give your drive to M$.
If I was a lawyer, I would declare the content of my own drive my own property, and I would press charges against M$ for trespassing my private property.
The only way M$ could give context sensitive ads, if they were to read the content (which will become the context) of my drive. This would be highly illegal, especially because I never gave permission to M$ to read it, especially not to allow them to generate money from it.
Someone please remind M$ - with a nice class action slap on the face - that they are serving the customer for their money - not the other way around.
Hopefully, Microsoft are doing this simply to prevent anyone else from doing so, and are not planning to implement the patent themselves.
I suppose I can dream...
Oolite: Elite-like game. For Mac, Linux and Windows
This is well in line with Microsoft's long standing motto, Do Mo' Evil.
since Microsoft is the mother of all Crapware.
Bet this is pretty much the same concept as the ad-supported version of Opera. Windows will now have a free edition, to compete better with the pirated copies. And you can input an upgrade code to make the ads go away. Whether that will also disable the HD-searching-and-reporting subsystem, well, that's another question. But I bet you won't see this in retail versions of Windows.
I mean, Google Desk has access to your whole hard drive, because it indexes everything. Why couldn't they do the same thing first. So, not is the MS plan a bad idea, but a stolen one at that.
This is my sig.
Conventional wisdom: they'll never get away with it, think of all the corporate proprietary data stored on M$ machines all over the place, there'll be a huge uproar from the private business sector alone.
Experiential wisdom, based on M$ track record: they'll probably try, eventually.
u-bend
I wonder, if my hard drive is filled with pirated Microsoft software, will they show me advertisements for The Pirate Bay?
Yes, you will get advertising for The Pirate Bay, but don't be fooled -- every other computer near you will get advertisements for the BSA.
Big apple, new Yorik, undig it, something's unrotting in Edenmark.
Damn straight! Do you know how hard it is to find hairy, MILF, natural boobs and stocking porn!?!
Noooooo. They either (most of the time) shave it, have young chicks, chicks with the cartoonish big boobs, stockings and shaved, etc.....
Sorry, I don't want my porn to look like child porn - I want grass on the infield AND wrinkles AND stockings AND real boobs. God, who the fuck came up with today's porn!
I prefer Flambe as apposed flamebait.
I'm filing a patent right now to cover the display of advertisements underneath the eyelids of humans and dogs. No one can escape marketing, not even dogs. Just because it's a worthless, meaningless and otherwise waste of time doesn't mean marketing does not deserve to become integrated into every nook and cranny of our lives, starting with being embedded into the OS. The crappy OS, but it's a start.
What about cats, birds and fish? Not profitable enough. Let's see...
1. Build tiny implants to embed into eyelids at birth for the purpose of inescapable commercialization.
2. ?
3. Profit!
This is the NSA, we're gonna geet U h@x0r5! Also, what is a h@x0r5?
I'm getting the feeling that this is a patent filed solely for the purpose of keeping this kind of shitware from Windows PCs (you know, OEM addons?). Microsoft wouldn't implement it simply because of the risk of user outrage, but they'd file a patent for it so that they could sue the balls off of anyone that does.
Viable Slashdot alternatives: https://pipedot.org/ and http://soylentnews.org/
Can we say privacy invasion? Seriously, as if having to use proxy's to use Google in order to avoid book-keepings of "sketchy" searches isn't enough, something that sifts through everything you have, while using an OS you already paid for, to profit more? I'm probably unpopular for saying this but I hope this hit's Vienna vs. Vista. I personally like Vista and once I get a computer that can handle it in a way that's smooth enough for me I want to be able to use it without this kind of crap. Plus by the time Vienna were to come out I figure that Ubuntu (or whatever the "next good Linux distro" might be) will be more robust than Vista on nearly all terms, Ex. Search capabilities, and even more user friendly features. Not that Ubuntu doesn't already have it, but there's just something about Vista that makes it like the forbidden fruit of sorts, with lack of a better term. Yet then again I think all of my hope will be in vain, considering that they'll probably try and slap it on XP too. This still could go either way though, it'll definitely suck in the short term, but I think in the long term it's a coin flip of either turning users off of Windows and on to Linux, and thus more development and consolidation with different distros; or it works, users continue not caring, and people like us slashdotters end up getting pissed off with it because we know what's really going on.
Just like no sane criminal wants to compete with the Mafia, yet will work against cops, I can imagine that Microsoft will squelch freelance adware/malware vendors in a way the authorities cannot.
Your ad here. Ask me how!
when I access the site.
perhaps it's so bad that it's bad?
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
What would you say if the person that sells you your typewriter also enters your house whithout permission, searches your bookshelves and files to find out more about you, and then leaves 'relevant' paper adverts on your coffee table. Do
While the abuse potential is high, it would seem quite possible that this is not intended as a means for Microsoft to create adware... but rather, it's an offensive patent meant to give them a weapon to fight adware. The fact that such is even possible speaks so highly of the flaws in our patent system that it seems almost absurd... but if the patent goes through, such would seem a possibility.
This strikes me as too intrusive for anyone to accept on a paid piece of software, but maybe MS is considering someday giving Windows away for free in exchange for the user having to watch ads? They already know that people pirate their products and no matter what they do, someone will crack the piracy. Someone will probably crack the ad stuff, too, but Aunt Tillie may not mind if she can get a cheap box that let's her send email and exchange pictures of her rose bushes and grandkids.
Or MS will give up the "cripple your unlicensed windows copy" and just turn on ads if you fail WGA. Piracy problem solved. Download it and watch ads, or pay us and don't. Either way you can still surf the web and play solitaire.
I suppose there's also the possibility of using something like this on kiosks or other public and/or shared terminals.
There has to be more to this than just sticking ads on licensed copies of Windows.
and the contents of my hard drive, does this mean that I now own MSFT?
After all, I have to expressly grant permission to use my copyright.
And my state, Washington, has strict consumer laws about that sort of thing.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
Mr. Taco, Sir? Is there a way we can mod the Borg-Bill icon "underrated"?
"Win treats sysadmins better than users. Mac treats users better than sysadmins. Linux treats everyone like sysadmins."
Far be it for me to stand up for Microsoft, but come on folks, take a step back and look at this from another angle.
Sure, intrusive and irrelevant ads are a Bad Thing. Everyone hates spam because it's a waste of time and bandwidth. But relevant advertising is just "valuable information".
When I shop on Amazon, I frequently find interesting things I'm willing to buy, based on Amazon's recommendation engine.
If I were researching HDTV's online, and a service such as this sniffed my cache and presented me with advertisements for sales on HDTVs in my local area, this would be very useful to me.
A service like this would have to be opt-in, otherwise it would be evil, but I wouldn't discount the utility of it off hand.
Now, as for this being a patentable thing... Is it the concept of a context-sensitive framework that MS is patenting here, or is it their specific mechanism for delivering one? Because I'm sure prior art abounds in the form of various redirectors, interceptors, page-ranks and such... It's just the parameters defining the "context" to which the ads are tuned that changes when you look at my personal data.
-- What you do today will cost you a day of your life.
There is a world of difference. Anyone can apply for a patent for anything, no matter how old or obvious, and their application will be published - even in the US now that US patent law is like that almost everywhere else. If I filed a patent application for a cheese sandwich, it would be published, but I doubt it would be granted.
Routine publication is a Good Thing. It gives others who know that the alleged invention is not new (there is so-called "prior art") the chance to bring it to the attention of the examiner. It also means that applications in other patent offices can be sought out (easily and for free using esp@cenet) and opposed if need be.
Crying that someone has patented something just because they have an application published is not a Good Thing. It is crying wolf, and has the potential to make people take no notice of the really important bad patent applications.
I agree that the idea stinks, but I do not know whether it is better a free-for-all or something that MS can limit to itself.
The above is why I choose to be an *anonymous* European Patent Attorney - I handle patents for software implemented inventions. I do not like all of them (and sometimes tell my clients so) but it is a legally made living.
Given that patents can be awarded for '(existing idea) but on the internet', I wonder if the formulation '(existing idea) over my dead body' is also allowable?
A pizza of radius z and thickness a has a volume of pi z z a
Sure implementing this patent would be pretty damn evil and intrusive IF it was just foisted on the public. However, we have no reason to believe MS intends to do anything of the kind.
For starters they may be patenting this 'technology' (it's kinda obvious) defensively to prevent other people from implementing it (even as an 3rd party addition to windows). Alternatively they may be planning to offer special free computers to people who agree to be subject to this sort of invasive advertising. I don't like the idea myself but if other people are fairly informed and want to get their free computer anyway why should I tell them they shouldn't?
If you liked this thought maybe you would find my blog nice too:
The only thing between us and quiet dinners is a patent on telemarketing.
The only thing between us and world peace is a patent on warfare.
And, the only thing between me and a karma deficit is a patent on insightful commentary.
Big apple, new Yorik, undig it, something's unrotting in Edenmark.
Is this MS's way of pushing people to linux.
if they are going to spy on every file on my HD and deluge me with spam.
I will have to learn to use ubuntu.
alerady useing OO and firefox at home.
Just not enough time to learn something new.
I tried it once a while back but the deivers for my porinter, scanner and video card were a major problem.
I stopped watching television altogether a few years ago, aside from the occasional SNL when I remember it's on (yea I know, SNL isn't funny, save it). I just find the commercials really disgusting. Whenever I do catch tv now, say when I get bored of staring at my thumbs while visiting relitives, the ads really make me queasy, physically not figuratively. Something about the rapid ramp up of music and the incessant talking, those earworm jingles. There's no silence between commercials anymore, not even a small blip. One just feeds right into the next with their micro-plots and wild changes of tone. It bothers me that so much talent and work goes into making something so disposable. They're really engineered at a fundamental level to get into your mind and stay there, and I think that's something way more insidious than most people realize.
The other day I went into best buy and bought a $30 bluetooth adapter. The cashier asked if I wanted a $10 2-year warranty on the thing. I firmly declined and as she went on explaining the benefits of this program I felt less and less happy to be shopping in a brick & mortar store. The cashier was just doing her job but I still wanted to strangle whatever marketting exec makes them do that. I find generally all advertising really off-putting anymore. I know what the hell I want to buy, I don't get sold things. I'll take a psych test to prove it. I know it works well on lots of sheeple, but let me opt out damn you.
My point is, I'm getting pretty hostile to marketting, and as far as I can help it I won't have any more business with MS if they engage seriously in this strategy. There's enough spam out there, it really doesn't belong anywhere in a fundamental part of an OS.
Here's what's going on here, involving your ass with some ascii Microsoft -> you (pre-patent) ( o ) microsoft -> you (post-patent) ( O ) any questions?
Perhaps they just intend to sue the makers and users (adware companies) for usage of their 'IP'. Sue (enter company here) for infringing on their spam and adware intellectual property. Unless they buy 'vouchers' to protect them from litigation.
Nope... absolutely definitely did not give any right to M$ to READ AS CONTENT and USE MY DATA.
Bits and bytes as long as they are required for computing operations sure - but not AS DATA IN CONTEXT.
You can be absolutely sure that any Fortune500 CEO feels the very same way about their spreadsheets, strategic planning documents, etc. that they consider confidential corporate information.
And yet another intrusion into the private life of the consumer.
How about those of us who don't want ANY advertisements at all.
"Bad Microsoft, bad bad Microsoft"!
Life takes interesting turns, but the most interest is when you're off the beaten path.
We can only hope that this makes it into an early service pack for Vista, and that Microsoft announces it poorly, resulting wholesale defection of their corporate user-base to Apple and Linux-based desktops.
We can only hope this is what Ballmer means by M$ services. The whole crapware industry that Softies point to when it comes to Dell selling gnu/linux is prior art, but that has never kept M$ from claiming invention.
A more disturbing possibility is they only obviously implement this on crappy free ware versions of Windoze and then claim Google is violating their patents. This would be both a FUD and judicial assault, much like the SCO case. They will, of course, continue the worst practices themselves while claiming innocence and smearing everyone else.
Does anyone need more evidence to abandon non free software?
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Like Norton recognize this version of windows and remove it from your hard drive?
Nathan
Considering that adware is the leading reason that I bought my mother a Mac, and I imagine numerous other people's same reasoning, this could easily be Microsoft's own way of protecting itself in the event that they never find a way to beat the adware.
By patenting it, they can sue anyone using it for millions and block them from doing it, thereby making them money and protecting the platform. Honestly, this is a bit of an optimistic look at the patent, since realistically, a lot of these "businesses" are foreign anyway.
Also, given that there is a rumored ad-supported version of Windows in the pipeline, eventually, it makes sense that they will want to target the ads to you. Of course, the day that gets incorporated into the normal OS is the day that Apple wins, and if Apple does it, then Linux (or some other OS) will pick up.
Google does this with their g-mail service. I often find sidebar ads that relate to the e-mail I currently have open. I think a lot of this goes around with little knowledge on the users part.
Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
Don't worry... it will be exactly like Cable TV: you have the choice of either paying for Cable TV, in which case there are no advertisements, or you can opt to have the cable-company install the cable line for free, but then there are ads inserted at intervals during the show.
No one would ever pay for something and then tolerate having ads in it.
No, not the story.
The other definiton, as in anyone who would use a Micro$oft OS after reading this story.
Actually, I think it's a GREAT idea to patent this. New adware makers could be sued by Microsoft for patent breach, forcing them to license the patent from Microsoft, for which they could refuse, effectively stopping the spread of a certain type of adware. Unfortunately, this is Microsoft owning this patent, so I just don't trust them or their intent to actually do some good here.
..if it's done right...
Done right... Microsoft... *snicker* must... hold... laughter...
I suppose it could just be me, but it sure seems obvious what they're doing here. They're trying to acquire a patent defense against Google. Google's raking them over the coals about desktop search - and it's pretty clear how Google would go about making money off desktop search: targeted advertising.
So Microsoft is trying to get a defensive patent to prevent Google from leveraging the OS as an ad-serving mechanism. The proximate motive for this is, I believe, probably to use as ammo against Google in the current dispute, and certainly in the inevitable near- and mid-term disputes.
Which is not to say that MS itself won't implement a tech like this in some fashion at some point, but I'm in agreement with some other posters that it will be a free/cheap version of Windows. They're just not short-sighted enough to try and shovel this into the enterprise; it would be the end of Windows upgrades for business if they did.
Reality has a conservative bias: it conserves mass, energy, momentum...
Sorry, that is already patented.
Big apple, new Yorik, undig it, something's unrotting in Edenmark.
Several people have suggested that MS may be patenting this concept solely to go after malware developers. Aren't most of them based outside the U.S.? It seems to me that this will turn out like the recent raid on Pirate Bay. MS can sue all they want, but when the company is based in a country whose courts don't care about patents, it won't have much impact.
It's called "Windows Genuine Advantage"
or just Information Week
"better ways of doing things eventually just replace the inferior things" - Linus Torvalds 09-08-07
I could see this as handy for use in kiosk computers and public access terminals as computers become more pervasive.
"God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon, Marshal of France - speaking truth to power
Does anyone need more evidence to abandon non free software?
Considering I constantly use the non-free Mac OS X, Half-Life 2, Microsoft Office for Mac, Skype, Safari, iTunes and many others, then yes, yes I do.
By summer it was all gone...now shesmovedon. --
Holy crap. I guess local disk searching and indexing is the Trojan horse, to use an unsavory term. Now Google, don't you be evil, y'all.
Here's this OS. You see, it's a $1200 OS. You have 2 choices:
1) $600 + adware. See, you get a discount, so it's OK for us to spy on you.
2) $1200, without adware. 3) Thank you for your offer, Mr. Gates, but intercourse you, I'm buying a $1000 PC and installing Ubuntu.
4) Thank you for your offer, Mr. Gates, but intercourse you, I'm buying a Mac.
You should have said "Does anyone need more evidence to abandon Microsoft?".
What will happen if it detects Linux on my hard drive? Send me advertisement about the evils of proprietary software?
Of course they do it. It's what their business model is based on. Why else would they provide a 2GB mailbox, for free? If you don't like it, use the POP3 service.
"Woah, I get it, I get it! Very cute! Whatever's on our hard drives. If we have a spam filter mentioning Cialis, Cialis ads will pop up and crush us, so empty your drives! Empty them all, we've only got one shot at this."
Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
Bill Gates cannot have an honest, opened and sincere conversation with none of us. Bill Gates is an evil man, a man with so much power and secrecy, he is dangerous to society. This isn't a generalization, but simply "the out of the box perspective". One cannot know so much and be right - the problem with the man and his company is apparent throughout the day - they prioritize the proprietary, the "close-hood" setup - they impose a system of control over humans, disabling us to discover and celebrate knowledge and things. This creates a negative juice in society. Bill Gates, his company and their position works because he is more and more catering to modern industrial needs - the problem is that the world is past the modernistic state, but it will be long until industrialism is gone. This transition out of industrialism is wrongly being taken advantage of by Microsoft and the alike. Their principle, the principle of constantly assuming that humans are ignorant and unexperienced, is the justification for their actions. You see people, the solution is clear and simple - look around you and all of the problems you see is a reality constructed by anti-humanitarinism and anti-culturalism.
The opposite of Bill Gates would be a teacher/professor that attempts to educate people.
When the fuck do *I* get paid for letting them use my PC as a platform for making them richer?
No sig for you!!
Most rational people understand that Google supports its free services by displaying ads. You have already paid MS a lot of money soi why should they feel they have a right to invade your desktop?
Engineering is the art of compromise.
Although I can hardly blame msft for that. The US-DoJ really is a lame joke.
Analyzing my hard drive in order to improve the Windoze of Opportunity for the (M)admen is only one step from allowing the Central Screwtinizer into my bedroom to read my diary. Apparently, the founding fathers stopped far short of defining an adequate defense from tyranny, as I cannot find safe harbor from unreasonable search or seizure even on my p0wned hard drive.
The Supreme Court recently ruled that the "information" you voluntarily (and/or necessarily) provide to your electronic communications and "service" contractors in order that they connect your calls (phone numbers), route your internet transmissions (IP, HTTP, FTP headers), etc. is NOT protected and NOT private... That's how the phone companies escape liability for turning over all call routing information to the Gov without a warrant.
Since, by the terms of the EULA (thanks Bill), you don't actually own the copy of WinDoze installed on "your" computer, and you must provide information to the OS (a proxy for M$) in order to use your computer, then, in the absence of protective legislation, any information you "willingly" divulge to said provider could arguably be treated as common property. (BTW, you get the burning end.)
I have 3 words for you... TOTAL INFORMATION AWARENESS
Of course, you have nothing to fear, as long as you are doing nothing wrong, right?
--- Quickly Winston, call the the Savage! And forget the dust mote, get me my Soma! ---
So patent licensing is going to stop "illicit" adware, eh? Just like legislation stopped spam?
>>
Pieter's rule #1: when a Slashdot poster writes "you guys", it's a Microsoft astroturfer.
Pieter's rule #2: when a Slashdot poster says, "Google does it, how come you (guys) don't complain", it's still a Microsoft astroturfer.
Also, the astroturfers will often start with something like: "hey I have no special love for Microsoft, but . . . " and/or "I'm a Linux user myself, but . . . . " and/or "I'm not rying to defend Microsoft, but . . . "
Also, often bitter complaints about how everybody on slashdot is too insanely biased to even consider microsoft's point of view.
Is on a guy who comes into your house, rifles through all your stuff, and suggests what you should buy. Of course, his integrity is not to be questioned.
> 3) Thank you for your offer, Mr. Gates, but intercourse you, I'm buying a $1000 PC and installing Ubuntu.
Nice sentiment but take a moment to consider what the actual offer will be:
Option #1, the Dell M-Box, brought to you by Pepsi (this month, next month another sponsor....).
Plays mainstream media. Meaning everything on sale at Best Buy/Walmart in the movie, music and games depts. Cable TV will be delivered through it. Allowed to connect to the Internet and perform E-Commerce, required for E-Voting, filing your taxes and renewing your driver's license. Can run Microsoft Office, required to interchange documents via Microsoft Hotmail, the only approved mail service since they merged with the Postal Service. The only way to transfer content to your iPod. (Even in a total distopia I can't see the Zune beating the iPod at this point.)
Not allowed to run any unsigned binaries.
Option #2,
Buy a PC on the grey market and install Ubuntu. You can run anything you like but you won't connect to the Internet with it, at least legally. There will be hacks to allow basic IP access but no major website will allow you to connect because your browser won't bear the mark of the beast. Generate too much traffic out on the dark net and you will get noticed so P2P will be right out. Warez will of course not cease, just return to face to face exchange of really high capacity media, Linux will of course be part of that warez scene since after the Patent Wars any useful program will be in violation of at least one and therefore illegal to traffic in and also comply with the GPL.
Now, how many people will actually pick Option #2? They won't even have to police the gray market too hard, no more than they pretend to fight the War on Some Drugs. Just the social stigma of being outlaw will keep it safely contained to a ghetto.
Democrat delenda est
On any given day: I delete spam, throw away junk mail, flip past commercial, hang up on telemarketers, block what pop-up ads I can, ignore the rest, ignore all other ad links, ignore countless signs, and so on. It doesn't really bother me, just part of modern life.
Frankly, I don't see how advertising can be effective when we're so inundated with it constantly.
It was:
Finally, we have an answer. I believe this is the first time that a slashdot ??? marking can be filled in!
The next site to slashdot will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and start slashdotting it early!
Yes, because Apple are the epitome of niceness. They've never locked anyone in to a format, platform or device.
"It does not do to leave a live dragon out of your calculations, if you live near him." - Tolkien
I wish I had modpoints to mod you "Funny".
Before everyone flies off the deep end..... Every single time Bill Gates is asked (he is constantly asked this) what his vision of the future is this is always his answer. TV, Internet, really everything in the digital world tuned to you and your preferences. I must have heard him say it 1000 times. That is the future. It makes no difference if you like Microsoft or not. That is the future. Everyone should have saw things like this coming.
I'll try anything once. Twice if it tastes good
You missed a step. Buying advertising targeted at people who can't afford an OS is unlikely to yield sales with good margins. Selling ads to that ad buyer is likely to be quite profitable. Therefore there will be ads.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
Do you mean free like those games (like Battlefield 2142 and Counter-Strike) that implemented in-game advertising in return for offering the game for free? Wait. You mean, they didn't offer the game for free? No? How about a steep discount. No? They didn't offer that either? Well, imagine that.
Okay, look at that PeoplePC deal from several years ago where people got PCs for a ridiculously low price as long as they kept the advertising! That worked great! Oh. You mean, it didn't work? Several companies tried it and they all failed? Really?
Be realistic here. Microsoft is not about to offer one of their cash cows (and monopoly controls) for free no matter how much advertising they throw in.
The Overrated mod is for reversing inappropriate, positive mods, not for voicing disagreement with a post.
At first, I was stunned. Then as I read other posts, I realized something. Either M$ actually does something good by preventing anyone from doing this, or everyone in the entire world leaves Windows. Either way, this is good news!
Why do you think your hypothetical scenario should be taken as "evidence"?
There's nothing hypothetical about the SCO case or M$'s "everyone else does the bad things we do but worse" FUD. Those things are well a established pattern or abuse. No one should give their money, even indirectly, to such a company regardless of what they have to offer but what M$ has to offer is all third rate.
The ultimate reason for users and developers to abandon non free software is it's inherent dishonesty, which makes it possible to commit M$ style abuses. They won't tell you how it works, so it could be doing anything. This leaves anyone developing non free software open to the charges and anyone using it is a potential victim. Secrets stink.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
If it uses data from your HDD, how can it access that data without illegally searching your computer?
I mean, if it needs information from your system, doesn't it have to have your *EXPLICIT* permission to leagally do so?
Knowing Google's lust for data collection, the Soviet Union is still alive and well inside the psyche of Sergey Brin....
Adware like Viruses can do the following:
1. Screw up a computer beyond belief
2. Force users to spend lots of money to get their computers repaired
3. ruin the entire computer / Internet experience, often making users scared of their own device
4. Make users dislike Windows (just look at Slashdot, if viruses and adware were not an issue in the industry, MS would still be hated but not has much as they are now.
MS has both the money and the invesment interest in reducing both viruses and adware, however they still need the means.
MS makes billions off of selling software, they are not stupid enough to start including adware in their software, they know how much people dislike it.
truth of the issue is that whoever figures out how to remove viruses and adware from Operating Systems will make billions, currently their is no solution to industry issue.
Don't kid yourself. They're jealous of Google's ad revenue and have said that over and over in interviews. You don't patent things you'll never use and I'm pretty sure they don't have the customer's best interest at heart.
Now, it might be true that they won't put that feature in the corporate versions of Windows. That's almost a given. Maybe not even in the "premium" versions of their normal apps.
But you can bet that they'll cram it into their low end/educational software or anything they sell for very little. And you can bet that they'll give 3rd parties access to it so that they can use it to sell ads.
And I'm guessing it'll be full of security holes. Get an infectious banner into their system and you can infect a ton of people all at once. It's one of the most popular ways of distributing trojans these days, after all.
But no, just no. Microsoft isn't spending that much money on a nearly worthless patent just to sit on it for the customer's good. And it has me worried.
I don't let ad agencies checkout the inside of my house to target me for ads... And i ain't going to let MS do it to my HD. grrr. take that corporate evil doers...
No words of wisedom here.
Remember kids, twitter's hypothesis' are not hypothetical, they're fact.
While I believe that MS will be making a lot of money with this technology in the short term by having Joe Sixpack install the 'important update' as soon as it's released, in the long run, they will be fucking themselves in the ass.
No sane company executive would ever allow a third party to install software that inspects the content of their users hard drives followed by a quick call home with the results. There is a reason why companies are spending thousands of dollars on spyware removal technology - to avoid the risk of having sensitive information / trade secrets leave the corporate network.
When companies realize that they no longer control the distribution of their critical data, they will gladly give MS the finger and look at alternatives as the defacto OS for their user community - and we all know that the average user will use at home the same OS that they have at the office...
"Hey John, check this out! The new version of Windows now has a big 'K' instead of that ugly 'Start' button"
The obvious reason why Microsoft would go to extreme lengths to get advertisers to spend their advertising megabucks with lovely, sweet, sexy Steve Ballmer and his troop of marketing thugs is that Microsoft, in all and every single market, shits itself if it isn't dominating, be that market IT-Executive toilet paper, or reinventing spyware, MS has to be there, and Googles huge market dominance must frighten little BillyG and StevieB so that they need their own toys to play with.
Typically, MS has to go and fuck it up totally, as only MS really can. If anything can lose Microsoft marketshare quickly, in an IT world almost totally dominated by them, it is MS made spyware. Users and companies would desert the company in droves, literally. You would see a huge upswing in Ubuntu use (and Macs would do well too).
Fortunately, MS is having real trouble getting people to like Vista, so it'll be a while before this gets implemented, and when it does, after a huge outcry, it will be removed, only to appear in some later stealth form, along with a draconian EULA to enforce its use.
Canonical must be laughing at this.
Perhaps this is a new strategy to rid Windows of spyware, adware, and viruses. Once they have the patent, they'll sue all the spyware off your computer.
In your bizarre, paranoid fantasy when does Apple stop making computers? Amongst a million other issues.
I think it's called a "false dichotomy"
JP
If someone makes this, then i bet that people will not buy whatever supports/has it. noone wants to be bombarded 24/7 with ads, no matter how relevant. Oh, my printers low on ink? well i'll just go to the store. I'm out of paper? gee, let me check my closet. Yes, i really need ads offering to sell me this stuff over the internet to get it a few days later when i probably won't need it. Its a needless distraction.
also, think about the invasion of privacy. People store sensative data on your computer, that you might not want others to see, as what might happen if someone hacks into this software. also, lets say that you have a family computer and you have alot of something on it (like pr0n). it would bombard you with ads for more of this stuff, and then your family would find out.
He is being sarcastic..
Damn those pro-apple moderators are daft.
I live outside the USA, thank you very much.
Trust me, I work for the government.
It means that most spyware today will be covered by MS's patent. It may dissuade a few people from going down that very dodgy path towards making cash.
It's OK Bender, there's no such thing as 2.
I might get flamed on Slashdot for even suggesting this, but is it possible that Microsoft's intentions in this are benign? Slashdot users are quick to point fingers at big companies that buy their way through the patent office with well-known technologies, then turn around and start suing other people for infringing on their patents.
Microsoft certainly has the financial power to be a powerful force if this gets granted. They don't have any need to actually write adware of their own: they can force adware companies out of business by tying them up in court on a frivolous patent infringement charge.
You may treat all information submitted above as wild speculation.
giving microsoft the benefit of the doubt, maybe they're doing this as a means of protection against this kind of behavior being performed on their OS. Cant stop spammers or advertisers who may collect such information normally, IP lawsuits on the other hand..
However I believe there is a truly insidious reason behind this.
They hold that patent. Guess which competitor uses those similar methods to collect advertising revenue?
that's right. google.
This isnt to start some evil adware scheme, this is ammunition.
Has anyone considered the possibility that, given all the embarrassment they suffered as ad-ware became a problem to rival viruses, they might be providing themselves some legal ammunition to use against future and monstrous ad-ware that might be introduced by advertising companies.
Companies who offer the payload of ad-ware with their "products" or not-in-quote products can justify their ad-ware through user agreements and warnings that users didn't bother to read and what-not, which often serves to differentiate their software from viruses.
But the possibility of patent-infringement lawsuits could provide new legal leverage to force these advertising companies to mend or at least modify their evil ways, where criminal law does not apply.
Um, considering your "reason" is a badly-worded theory about something that has not happened yet, I'd say the answer to that is a qualified yes.
Oh, I'm sorry. You were "evangelizing". Never mind that, once we get all religious we don't need pesky things like reason or truth or anything else. We just need to believe.
Say, are you originally from Kansas by any chance?
Web2.0: I love when people Flickr my cuil and digg my boingboing until my google is reddit and I start to yahoo