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US Blocks Entry For German Black Hat Presenter
bushwhacker2000 alerts us to the dilemma of Thomas Dullien, a prominent security researcher who has been a fixture at the annual Black Hat security conference. Dullien was denied entry into the US on his way to this year's conference. Dullien, a German reverse-engineering expert known in hacker circles as "Halvar Flake," said he was blocked from entering the US on the technicality that he had (years ago) signed a contract with Black Hat as an individual, not as his company. Customs agents said he would need an H1-B visa to perform the contracted two days of training at Black Hat, and put him on the next plane back to Germany.
Another evil terrorist plot foiled! Tax me some more so i can be even safer!
They whose government reduces their essential liberties for temporary security, receive neither liberty nor security.
It sucks, but you can't expect immigration officials to randomly let people into the country just because they feel like it.
How is this a technicality? He didn't have a visa to do the work here that he had contracted for.
It's clear that this kind of conference is now impossible to gather in the US, so relocate it in a free country. Why not Mexico, South Am, East Asia, Russia ?
Would it be a problem to set-up a video conference to train these people from around the world?
"To be is to do." -Socrates
"To do is to be." -Jean-Paul Sartre
"Do-be-do-be-do." -Frank Sinatra
This is the reason I don't want to go to the US anymore.
Now I have to fear that the people here did not do their work properly (i.e. gave me the wrong visa application), and that I'll be rejected at the gates after standing in a huge queue before immigration at the airport.
The other reason is that after providing the security services with boatloads of personal information, fingerprints and other biometrics, some flag will go up in some obscure system, and I'll be (hopefully) sent back straight away by unnamed guys, and if I'm unlucky, get deported to the happy camp of Guantanamo inc. to have all human rights stripped from me for reasons unknown.
B.
Every experiment which ends in a big bang is a good experiment.
Don't shop there. Convince others to do the same. I mean by this logic, every store that opens its doors in the states must flourish and last forever. Sadly that isn't the truth. Walmart prevails because people whine and bitch and shop there anyways.
Either don't shop there, or change labour laws to include more reasonable minimum wages for adults, language requirements, etc...
Tom
Someday, I'll have a real sig.
They've made it quite clear that they don't like "furriners", so why are people still pressing the issue? Canada is a free and open society, and just to the north. We have lots of conference space in environments much more conducive to rational thought.
The ignorance level when it comes to illegal aliens is amazing. Being upset about illegal aliens is one thing but the blatant racism is not only unnecessary but it just makes you look like a fucking retard.
Next time, drop the rhetoric that has been so popular against homosexuals and illegal aliens recently and instead talk about it in civil terms.
Thanks.
What about the people that informed him which application to fill out? I mean, it's not common knowledge that for presenting a workshop at a conference you have to fill in visa application 157-12399-b. Oh, he's from Germany and earns more than 25k per year? then it's 157-12399-b'
B.
Every experiment which ends in a big bang is a good experiment.
It is not OK if they are illegal -- and you or I have no idea whether they are illegal or not.
Even if they are illegal, they pay taxes because it is withheld from their pay checks. Illegals tend to overpay payroll taxes because although they pay withholding they don't get refunds; they also get social security and Medicare withheld from their wages.
They would be no more unlikely to pay their hospital bills than any other Wal-Mart employee.
I am sure they pay taxes, either directly or indirectly. How do you buy gas, rent an apartment, or anything else in the US without getting taxes involved? The answer is that you can't. And the sad thing is some of these taxes like SS and Medicare will be for benefits that are never be traceable back to the person who paid for them.
just sneak across the Mexico-US border. That's how everyone else gets in. Planes and paperwork? Pfffft, old school.
Table-ized A.I.
Yeah, except you can't take paid speaking engagements up here without a work visa either.
He wasn't denied because the session was on security, he was denied because he's NOT ALLOWED TO WORK THERE without proper approval.
He would have been deported from Canada for the exact same reason had he told them the same story. In fact, if he wasn't a member of the EU he would have also been deported from Ireland, the UK, Spain, Italy, Germany, Switzerland, etc, etc, etc....
So while Canada is cool and all [hey I live in Ottawa], it's not a safe haven for illegal aliens either. They have to file fraudulent "refugee" claims like the rest of the population of Toronto.
Someday, I'll have a real sig.
Halvar's been kicked out of the US?
This is not good. It's my understanding that once you've been kicked out, it's much, much, much harder to get back in.
That leaves me rather scared. I've known Halvar for almost six years; we were in Singapore together at Black Hat Asia. He's a very intelligent engineer, doing very good research, and has done more than almost anyone to make people realize that obfuscation is not security. We, as an industry, need his voice. (A bit cynical, but seriously, we as an American industry want his talents put to work here, rather than overseas.)
Simple arguments like -- nobody could figure out how this works, they'd have to be able to read code -- have been destroyed because of Halvar's work. You may not realize it, but without concrete examples of attacks, software developers simply cannot comprehend attacks against their code that they can't do themselves. Halvar is a critical innoculation against technically inept but vaguely plausable excuses why something must be impossible.
Halvar does the impossible regularly. Seriously, he's an artist, and the American security industry is directly harmed by not being able to learn from him. What's the story going to be? That Halvar can only do training in India, and China, and in Europe? Yes, that sounds like a wonderful idea. Everyone else's code gets more secure while ours rots on the vine.
The only thing more embarrassing than this was when Xioyun Wang, the Chinese professor who cracked MD5, was denied entry to the US. Oh well, Halvar, I guess you're in good company...
--Dan Kaminsky
Maybe you missed something here? It didn't look like racist comments here. I live in Washington state. We have a lot of migrant workers. It's a fair assumption that the Mexicans that you see around where I live are illegal immigrants.
You can argue that is a sad state of affairs or any number of other things, but racist it is not.
Maybe (definitely) a bit off topic, but reading this stuff just pisses me off a bit... What did the US ever achieve with all of its draconian checks and procedures in airports and all of their visa crap? Other than (borderline) infringing on the privacy of many innocent individuals it will never be able to stop the most determined people with bad intentions (or desperate Mexican or other immigrants at that). It is deeply disturbing that the USA hands out billions to Israel for military purposes whilst on the other hand supplying Egypt, Saudi Arabia and God knows who else with weapons. What are they expecting? Arming to groups of people who have had beef for ages to the teeth and then expecting everybody to play nice? They are just creating their own (and everybody elses) problems. No measure of retina scans, fingerprinting and other niceties will ever be able to avert the inevitable consequences their foreign policy will have.
Tom, you appear to need further context to understand the original poster's statement.
The current administration of the United States has made "fighting terrorism" their top priority. As I imagine you are well aware, they have started two major armed conflicts in Afghanistan and Iraq as part of their so-called "War on Terror". Domestically, there was the PATRIOT Act, the No Fly list, the hassling of innocent photographers, and a wide spectrum of other activities performed in the name of "defending the Homeland".
However, at the very same time we have many of the same members of the administration pushing for lax immigration laws. Some even support amnesty for illegal workers from countries like Mexico, Vietnam, and Guatemala. Some of the proposals we've heard of so far make no mention of screening these aliens who are already in the United States.
So in this case, we have a highly-educated and very legitimate individual wishing to share his advanced security knowledge with a number of Americans. Yet he endures nothing but hassle and expense from the American officials. On the other hand, the same people crying about there not being enough security in America turn around and want to legitimize currently-illegal workers from third-world countries. Mind you, many of these workers are highly uneducated, often criminal, and usually able to do little more than work as a janitor.
To any normal person, it seems stupid that a country with such a fixation on security would turn away a security expert for such a minor reason, while at the same time wanting to legitimize the status of the millions of illegal aliens who are probably far more of a security risk.
I've known artists going to conventions in the US, from Canada, who didn't fill out the proper paperwork, and were turned away at the border by US Customs. They had their artwork with them, and since they were going to sell it in the US, needed a different visa.
Not that uncommon.
Utter BS. Where do you get that kind of information?!
I hope I didn't brain my damage.
Because I've been to Ireland, UK, France, Romania, and Switzerland.
In all but France have I been told that working is strictly forbidden. So unless he lived in a country that had a treaty, he probably wouldn't be able to work there [hence the non-EU comment].
Tom
Someday, I'll have a real sig.
... arrg ... The federal MPs are made up of elected officials from ALL OVER CANADA. I'm so sick and tired of "Ottawa" getting the wrap for what the federal government does.
If you hate the way things are look at what your MPs are doing.
Someday, I'll have a real sig.
every country has this issue. All countries don't like foreigners taken their jobs. Look into any work visa program in any country and it is extremely difficult to gain authorization and very easy to make mistakes. When I was traveling back and forth to Canada with my company I was ALWAYS sure to brief the customs people that I was not there "for work" but rather "attending business meetings." There is a large difference.
I missed the racism. Maybe it was "each one has 4 mexican kids". Kind of stereotypical but not too far above the average.
Explain it to us fucking retards, if you would.
I believe he was making a point about our laws being enforced selectively on a guy who likely was not going to "take" a job from any american, as opposed to illegal mexicans; where every job they take depresses wages and puts one of us out of work. ("us" includes americans of mexican descent, blacks, whites, guest alien workers - everybody).
Not only that, but the fact that they don't (can't) pay taxes and have to go to the emergency room for any medical care means it costs us a lot more than a lost job. Multiply that by the number of kids in the household.
Hell, if anything, a guy like this Dullien raises wages when he comes here to work, and we should be glad to have him. Not my first target in the enforcement of immigration laws.
First of its not obscure at all. Its an H1-B work visa - if anyone decided to *any* cursory check its all over the fucking place. Its very common knowledge and its ultimately his responsibility there. Just about every other country has similar sorts of work permits. Theres this thing, its called the internet. The information is readily at hand. If he got a work permit he'd be fine. And as the blurb says, he was contracted to do some work at\before the conference so hes not just there as an attendee.
That's one of the biggest problems in American politics today... nobody is willing to speak the truth because of constant appeals to emotion, ad hominems, character assassinations when the message is too strong to shoot down, etc.
Republicans want to starve your kids, kill the old people and erode the foundation of our country by eliminating immigration!
Democrats want to steal all your money, hate America and drive us back to the stone age!
Republicans hate minorities!
Democrats hate Christians!
Facts and logic rarely enter any political debate anymore, it's all about who can sling the most mud and frame their opponent into a seemingly evil corner.
Don't leave your mind so open that your brain falls out. Don't close it so much that you cut off the blood.
However, when you travel into USA there are certain words you should use carefully. "Work" is one of those. Don't say "I am coming to work in USA". Say "I am on business, attending a conference".
Engineering is the art of compromise.
Well at least he wasn't denied entry and/or sent to Gitmo on DMCA grounds.
Thank god, the US has no need of foreigners coming in and teaching. If that kind of crazy idea caught on, all hell would break loose. The population might become sufficiently educated to start to question the silly rules.
I didn't ask him to STFU. I told him that he should not detract from his valid argument by being racist.
The company I work for is a parent company of a Canadian company. The Canadian company is taking over a new contract at a large manufacturing plant in Ontario. The Canadian division of my company doesn't have the infrastructure to get the new program on its feet, and as such was bringing in a few people,3 of us to be specific, to get the new people they were hiring up to speed. None of us had any interest in taking Canadian jobs, but the hassle in getting Immigration to understand this was unnerving.
I thought they would have learned by now not to have security conferences in the US. Anyway, US visa and dealing with DHS (immigration) is so difficult that anyone who is expecting international attendees should pick some other country to host the conference. There is a short list of countries (Western Europe, high-income countries in Asia) where people can easily get visas to the US. For people not from those countries it can be nearly impossible to get a visa. And even for Western Europeans and high-income Asians, they can still get turned away upon arrival. This country is not a good pick for hosting international conferences.
Apartment taxes do exist in some areas, for example the state of AZ charges a percentage on rentals, and of course by paying rent you are indirectly also paying real estate taxes which are pretty much universal. This is why people who live in apartments are entitled to send their children to schools and otherwise use services in the town where they rent.
Some states (example NJ) also give some sort of rebate to renters that is tied to property taxes.
I know the feeling. I was employee #5 of AMD Canada [oddly enough based in San Jose California]. Needless to say their Canadian operations are really small. Mostly just sales folk. I think I was the only software engineer.
... :-)
Had a lot of messed up hiring dealings since the HR staff is based in the states. They actually had Canadian forms though for things like taxes though. But occasionally I'd be asked for my SSN or be offered a W-2
Tom
Someday, I'll have a real sig.
It's a conference. If you want to attend a conference in Europe, you present your invitation and are issued a visa.
I hope I didn't brain my damage.
Halvar was wrong for not having the correct visa. That being said, the government should probably spend their money going after the millions of people who come in illegally through the Mexican border, with the intent to stay a lot longer than a week, instead of a single German guy doing a little work and attending a conference. Not to mention, it is quite possible that terrorists are crossing the Mexican border to get in, now that we have 'no-fly lists' and 'watch lists'.
and he was racist exactly HOW? Because he used the word "Mexican"?
Don't leave your mind so open that your brain falls out. Don't close it so much that you cut off the blood.
Um, only if it's not for work.
:-)
...]. Then when I landed in Toronto, they were asking to see proof of citizenship [which a driver licenses is not]. Then they asked about 20 more questions [e.g. where were you born, how long were you in the states, etc...].
My stamp from the UK explicitly states "Employment and Recourse to public funds prohibited." I think that means I can't get paid to work there... fairly certain
And for the record, the UK customs is just as nasty as the americans. Worse yet because usually I'm so f'ing tired I just don't want to deal with them. At least in the states I'm so close to home that I can put up with their asinine questions and all that.Though to be fair I've also had just as much trouble with Canadian customs [and I'm a cannuck!].
I once did a trip in 2006 to the states [actually to AMD in San Jose] on nothing more than my drivers license [I was renewing my passport]. No trouble on the way there, but on the way back the folk at the San Jose airport didn't want to let me get a boarding card [I asked them how they thought I made it to San Jose
Tom
Someday, I'll have a real sig.
That was the point though he wasn't just attending the conference, that is an entirely different discussion.
He was getting paid to do work in the US, and that is a touchy issue going into most countries.
TFA states that he is German. So he can work in any EU country, without any need for a visa. Except for the UK, he wouldn't even need to show a passport at the border.
This isn't an anti-american post, this is the point of view of someone outside America, so please think twice before downmodding. So, here we go.
so what? I mean, americans have this weird sense of what's right and what's wrong. For one, Spanish seems to be some kind of dirty language, something only ugly dark-skinned people speak. It's the language of evil. What's wrong with being bilingual? If schools start teaching spanish people complain. Why? I mean... "the more you know", right? If instead of speaking one language, you can speak 2? That's cool, opens a lot of possibilities.
Also, america is also ashamed of the south. You like white christmas and all that crap, and also, that's the way christmas is supposed to be. I wonder if christmas is white in Florida, or even in New Orleans? No, but you don't talk about that. People in those places go barefoot and drive in dirt roads, ewww. They also chase alligators and fish in the mississippi. I mean, if you're fishing it MUST be in some pretty lake or a crystaline river, surrounded by mountains and brown maple leaves in fucking vermont.
What the fuck is wrong with you people? There's a whole world of things, languages, foods, places, and you complain because ILLEGALS ARE TAKING OUR JOBS AND NOT PAYING TAXES! What good are taxes for? I mean, in my country I can at least get FREE medical attention, even AIDS drugs. Even if I don't have a job and don't pay taxes. Hell, even if I'm not a citizen, I can still get all of that. Do you pay your taxes? What do these taxes do anyway? You need to pay for health, food, college. In my country, at least I can CHOOSE. I can pay for health, or use the State health services (sometimes the latter is better). I can go to a private university, but I can also go (and I do) to a state-funded university (and my degree is just as good in any of them). And I can even get free food from the government (and not food stamps, to be treated like scum at the store).
Do you realize that you are living in a country that spends half of the WORLD'S combined budgets in defense? What good has it been? You had 9/11, but "nobody saw that coming". You had Katrina, but "nobody saw that coming". And it's your fault, because you whine about Wal-Mart, but still buy there. You whine about the illegal immigrants, but if you were a store owner, you would hire one. You whine about catastrophes (natural or terrorism), but you don't have the people you need, because they're fighting in a war far away, trying to STEAL resources from a poor country.
America has the potential to be a fucking PARADISE, if you only cut the crap, the fear of "socialism" and "communism", the "take care of yourself and fuck everyone else" attitude. America never sleeps, they're ever waiting for doomsday to happen, the day China, Korea, or even some crappy island in the pacific will try to attack you. But instead of just waiting, you go and provoke everyone, showing off your weapons and killing innocent people all over the world. Dude, NOTHING will happen to america. Just stop messing with the rest of the world. In the process you will save BILLIONS of dollars, that could be spent in education, health, etc. But no, you have been brainwashed into thinking "that's communism!".
What good is the government for? Are they only there to "govern" you? To tell you what to do? (You know, only in the world's worst dictatorships a police officer draws his gun and put it in your head, let alone "take you in custody" for no reason other than suspected terrorism. Oh yea, and in america that happens too. IF a police officer tells you to get out of the car, and you don't obey, you are likely to be put in front of a loaded gun, or maced. Even if your children are in the car.) You know what that is? That's the government AFRAID of you. How can you live in a country where the government is afraid of you? In my country 15 years ago we gave the people the option to have their retirement funds in a 401(k)-like system. Your money was invested, you get interests from it, etc. Now a
And no, not just because ppl should RTFA before engaging in ludicrous parochialisms.
Consider: The Copernican revolution in how the US (unlike any other Western country) deals with travellers like Halvar coming to its borders from a legal, cultural, historical perspective is in the context of a wholesale erosion of human and civil rights -- of American citizens (not the hapless foreigner popping in to educate you). Realise how these incidents do sustained damage to the US reputation, its economy and its already shockingly insular society, and you will also catch a glimpse of the loss of rights and freedoms for Americans themselves.
If you know that there is a crime being committed, then YOU are obligated to report it. If you know that they are illegal and you do not report them, then you are a criminal for obstructing justice.
If you don't know that they're illegal, then you have just accused people of being criminals for no reason better than their heritage.
And that is indeed racism.
We're all born with nothing.
If you die in debt, you're ahead.
And I'll let you have it *real* cheap.
Of course he was denied because the session was on security. He'd been allowed to do this for years, and was only stopped when they looked at his literature.
The reality of the situation is that once you have a serious terrorist attack or two on your soil then everything gets clamped down a bit more. No one wants to be the person who lets the next would-be terrorist into the country. This means that everyone from the top down doesn't have any desire to bend the rules a bit to make life easier. Even with this we still have a fairly free and open society here in the USA, most likely just as free and open as Canadian society.
Maybe you should exercise some of that "free and open" thought that you are trumpeting and try to understand the whole situation rather than just being nasty about it?
Sapere aude!
Disclaimer: I'm an Immigration Officer with the CBSA, but this post only contains my personal opinion and I don't represent the Government of Canada.
I'm not sure why you were modded information, since you're spreading false information.
In Canada, Public speakers at seminars or conferences that do not go longer than 5 days do not require a work permit, nor do they require a visa if they come from a visa exempt country. Please see the IRPA regulation 186(j) and the Temporary Foreign Workers policy manual section 5.11. Unfortunately, the policy manual is only available in pdf.
Green Blackboards (And Other Anomalies)
Sapere aude!
Q: Who Is Eligible to Use the VWP?
A: To qualify for the VWP, you must:
* Intend to enter the United States for 90 days or less;
* Have a passport lawfully issued to you by a VWP country that is valid for six months beyond your intended visit;
* Be a national of the VWP country that issued your passport;
* Have been checked using an automated electronic database containing information about inadmissible aliens to the United States;
* Have a return trip ticket to any foreign destination other than a territory bordering on the United States or an adjacent island unless:
1. You are a resident of an adjacent island,
2. This requirement is waived by the Attorney General under regulations, or
3. You are a visitor for business who arrives aboard a private aircraft that maintains a valid agreement guaranteeing to transport you out of the United States, if you are found to be inadmissible or deportable;
* Present to the U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) officer a completed and signed Form I-94W, Nonimmigrant Visa Waiver Arrival/Departure Form. (Please see "How Do I Get an Arrival Departure Document?" for more information about arrival/departure records.);
* Not pose a safety threat to the United States;
* Not have failed to comply with the conditions of any previous admission under the Visa Waiver Program;
* If arriving by air or sea, you must arrive aboard a carrier that signed an agreement, "signatory carrier", guaranteeing to transport you out of the United States if you are found to be inadmissible or deportable;
* Convince the examining CBP officer that you are clearly and beyond a doubt entitled to be admitted and that you are not inadmissible under section 212 of the Act. For reasons that would make you inadmissible, please see the Immigration and Nationality Act at INA 212 (a);
* Waive any right to review or appeal a CBP officer's decision as to your admissibility, other than on the basis of an application for asylum or an application for withholding of removal under the Convention Against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment; and
* Waive any right to challenge your removal, other than on the basis of an application for asylum or an application for withholding of removal under the Convention Against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment. Overview of the Visa Waiver Program (VWP)
This is new here, an authority fanboi :)
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Thousands of government computers mysteriously crashed today. Official spokesman stated "sunspots" as the probable cause.
The reality of the situation is that once you have a serious terrorist attack or two on your soil then everything gets clamped down a bit more. No one wants to be the person who lets the next would-be terrorist into the country.
I don't think it has much to do with terrorism actually (except to the extent that "terrorism" is the current administration's general purpose excuse for just about everything).
It's really easy to get a U.S. tourist or student visa, and they're every bit as useful to a potential terrorist as a work visa. The U.S.'s stupidity with regard to work visas has far more to do with domestic politics ("protecting jobs" is a vote getter -- and most of the people who are thus disadvantaged can't vote!).
[Other countries do the same thing of course, but in my experience (having worked abroad in several different countries), the U.S. is just worse: in many first-world countries, if the company really wants to hire you, it's a pretty sure bet you'll be able to get a work visa/permit (there are typically tough sounding rules, but companies know how to deal with them); in the U.S. it's much more of a crapshoot, regardless of what the company does.]
We live, as we dream -- alone....
Absolutely right! Halvar is extraordinarily talented and it will be a terrible shame if his class is canceled. But it starts on Monday, so unless they do it by video conference I can't see him making it. I still hope to see him when I fly to Vegas on Thursday, but the odds aren't good :(.
I'd like to know just what the immigration department expects US conferences to do when bringing in foreign speakers. Halvar says they wanted to treat him like an "employee" of BlackHat and get an H1-B visa. But that is a ridiculous as it is a multi-year process. Halvar thinks coming as a representative of his own German company will help, but we shouldn't have to require that foreigners incorporate just to give a simple presentation or training class here.
I'm an American who has been paid to give presentations and training in many countries, including Germany. And I've never been hassled by their immigration dept. or received any special visas. So its embarrassing and harmful that the US subjects visitors to our country to all of this crap (including the fingerprinting and pushing other countries toward RFID passports). Its no wonder that many conference producers, including BlackHat, have been increasing the number of cons held offshore. The US just isn't seen as a welcoming place.
Pardon the long rant, but I hate seeing my friends put through this. And I'm sure similar things happen to thousands of people we don't know every day. Also, if those of us in the US don't fix our system, other countries might copy it and then we'll have to deal with this shit when we travel.
-Fyodor
Insecure.Org
Problem is, I can't think of where I'd rather live, all things considered.
What's crazy is that everyone else thinks the US is too far to the "right", too "wild west", what with all our guns and remains of a laizee faire economy. Me? I'd like more guns, fewer laws, more open trade, no more tariffs or subsidies.
I certainly like that Germany makes the worlds finest cars, has excellent public transit, fantastic roads, beautiful architecture and countryside, and makes lots of smart people. But they're a step in the wrong direction in many of the freedoms I care about.
For instance, in Germany home schooling is illegal, so I can't very well live there because as much as I dislike the amount of school choice available to me here in the US, I get even less of it in Germany. Even if the choices might be quite a bit better than what I have here, the only choice that I really need ("No thanks, I'll indoctrinate my child MY way instead of letting you indoctrinate him YOUR way") is unavailable to me.
If there were somewhere that truly had more individual freedoms than the US, I'd think pretty carefully about moving there. Freedoms meaning "free from having to do things the way other people tell you to do them".
If I had any say in running the US, things would be different. I'd let as many brilliant people into my country as we had room for, (which would attract more brilliant people, who are good at making more room!). But, I don't have any say. Libertarians have no voice in American politics, and America is growing the hydra heads of big government that pushed many people away from Europe in the first place... and yet we're coming up with some of our own unique stupidity that makes the mix that much more sour.
So if you've got any suggestions on places to live that respect individual liberty, let me hear em. I'm happy to contribute my talents to whomever will unshackle me to do my best work and live my life to the fullset.
My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.
The other half of his comment - about paying hospital bills - is also bogus rhetoric.
Hospitals have an obligation to stabilize critical patients. That's it. There is no legal requirement to treat anyone who is not critically injured, nor is there a legal requirement to continue care once the patient is in a stable condition. The last few times I've been in a hospital, there were signs posted all over place stating exactly that.
Thus the common meme that "illegals are bankrupting our hospitals" is pure bogosity. There are a lot of reasons hospitals have been going bankrupt, non-paying illegal aliens is not one of them.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
What's wrong with being bilingual? If schools start teaching spanish people complain. Why? I mean... "the more you know", right? If instead of speaking one language, you can speak 2? That's cool, opens a lot of possibilities.
There's nothing wrong with being bilingual. The proponents of making the US english only see it as a means of protecting our culture, making sure that you can go anywhere in the US and be able to find help if you need it, etc. I respect people's right to do whatever they want (as long as they aren't hurting someone else) but is it really that bad to expect people who want to emigrate to your country to want to actually be a part of that country? By all means, keep your traditions, food, etc and share them with others, but you need to accept some of the culture you decided to be a part of and one of the most fundamental things that define a culture is its language.
Also factor in that, under the 14th Amendment, if you make government accessible in one alternative language, you have to do it for ALL languages (equal protection clause). I don't remember off the top of my head, but that means making every form, guide, service, etc available in more than 100 languages. I think it's cool if you want to learn the language of the family that lives next door... it's not cool for them to force their language on you. Look at the case in Maryland where a rapist had his case thrown out because they couldn't find a translator for his native language despite him graduating from an US high school which requires fluency in english and his attendence of a state university.
Also, america is also ashamed of the south. You like white christmas and all that crap, and also, that's the way christmas is supposed to be. I wonder if christmas is white in Florida, or even in New Orleans? No, but you don't talk about that. People in those places go barefoot and drive in dirt roads, ewww. They also chase alligators and fish in the mississippi. I mean, if you're fishing it MUST be in some pretty lake or a crystaline river, surrounded by mountains and brown maple leaves in fucking vermont.
There is a large cultural divide between the elitists who live in metropolitan areas in the US and those who live in the south and rural areas. You can see it right here on Slashdot pretty frequently, especially in voting related stories. You see, anyone who doesn't vote the way self-righteous "learned" people do must be idiots. It couldn't be that different people value different things and that living in different areas can give you different perspectives on life. When you're making six figures and only surrounded by similar people, it's easy to look down at anyone who doesn't. Besides, those are the peasants who provide you with things like food so they aren't so much human, they're more like servants to the narcissism of the elite.
What the fuck is wrong with you people? There's a whole world of things, languages, foods, places, and you complain because ILLEGALS ARE TAKING OUR JOBS AND NOT PAYING TAXES! What good are taxes for? I mean, in my country I can at least get FREE medical attention, even AIDS drugs. Even if I don't have a job and don't pay taxes. Hell, even if I'm not a citizen, I can still get all of that. Do you pay your taxes? What do these taxes do anyway? You need to pay for health, food, college. In my country, at least I can CHOOSE. I can pay for health, or use the State health services (sometimes the latter is better). I can go to a private university, but I can also go (and I do) to a state-funded university (and my degree is just as good in any of them). And I can even get free food from the government (and not food stamps, to be treated like scum at the store).
And such is politics. There are those believe that the government should provide everything you'll ever need. Others believe it is up to the individual to achieve those things a
Don't leave your mind so open that your brain falls out. Don't close it so much that you cut off the blood.
I wish life was this easy. Thanks for making everything make more sense to me!
I am well aware of all of this now, and I do in fact have a TN NAFTA Visa/Work Permit. And though there was a division in Canada, this was in fact the first time that the company had dealt with this.
You missed the general point of my statement though. I admit that not being aware of what needed to be done wasn't a good situation. My point was that at least in my, albeit limited, experience every country has rules like this. Thinking that this is something special where US Immigration was out to target this guy is probably not true in the least bit.
from Mexico...
Thanks to file sharing, I purchase more CDs
Thanks to the RIAA, I buy them used...
They should have just handed him a fucking ID card. That's what they're doing for all the rest of the illegal immigrants.
Oh Crap, I'm an optimist.....
Until recently it was trivial (~$150) to get a fraudulent green card and social security card.
Although Wal-Mart does some scummy things, I seriously doubt that Wal-Mart would hire somebody off the books or without documentation. One of Wal-Mart's janitorial contracting companies was accused of hiring undocumented workers.
Don't feel too bad. I paid FICA for three years working in Toronto for the local branch of a Santa Monica company.
I'm a Programmer. That's one level above Software Engineer and one level below Engineer.
Commercial speakers have a vested interest in the event at which they are speaking. Typically, they rent commercial space in a hotel, advertise, charge admission, deliver the event and then leave Canada. If they are doing this for no more than five days on one trip, they can enter under R186(j). This regulation covers situations where the speaker is speaking to multiple groups, as long as the duration of the speaking events is no more than five days, not counting travel time in the case of multiple engagements. Not included in R186(j) are commercial speakers who are hired by a Canadian entity to provide training services. In these cases, other entry options must be explored including HRSDC LMOs or the NAFTA Professional category which allows for professionals to provide training services under some circumstances. So if he went to Canada and said he was being paid by a Canadian company to provide training services, he would need a visa.
Now keep your military to yourself.
I would say "Join us in Canada", but I don't know how much further that will take you. We have "more taxes", but that pretty much evens out when you factor American healthcare costs.
We have lots of parties getting votes and seats. A few of which are definitely "not" trying to fight to "be in the middle" and win all of the votes. We have more or less the same freedoms as Americans, but way (way, way) less guns and a way smaller army.
We have tons and tons and tons of space and more than enough natural resources for this lifetime. So when things start to go south for the USD (maybe too late), the CDN won't be dragged too far, b/c it's still "cashable", it still has value. Of course, it's only a matter of time before the world's biggest army annexes the world's biggest peacekeepers. At which point I guess you'll have more fresh air :(
That may be true, but according to his post it isn't Halvar's understanding of the situation.
;-)
Perhaps you should consider a different argument, don't the facts of this case already prove that his understanding of things is not very reliable?
Ah, yes, but you missed my point. It's not about the government providing everything for free. It's about having options. It's about balance. Socialism and communism are extremes, but wild capitalism is also an extreme. I trust my government, I work already and my retirement fund is in the state system from the first day, because I chose so. My neighbor might have chosen a private retirement fund, good for him! I also chose private healthcare, but my mom is a retired "government employee" (a teacher, go figure), so she used a mix of both. You see?
Another example: Spain. France. Germany. I could go on, but those countries are, to a great extent, socialist. Are they worse than America? Don't they get better? (because you say that taking care of yourself, or your community, makes it better). Let me give you an example, and this is true. I have a friend who lives in spain, and he has a young daughter. He told me that the government sent him a letter, reminding him that the girl didn't go to the dentist in over a year. It reminded him that it was free, any dentist he wanted. Scary? I don't think so. That's what I mean by "the government taking care of you". Sure, they don't do it because it's nice, they do it because detecting a cavity early is cheaper than paying for tooth extraction or whatever. But, when was the last time your HMO sent you a letter, reminding you that you should get a check-up?
It's more of a thing of altruism I think. You may never understand me, because we see different things. Let me see if I can explain what I think: you are afraid of giving power to the government, because they will come back later to expect something from you. I see it more, you may say idealistically, but well, I think the government is the PEOPLE. The government gives me things (health, whatever), and it expects me to pay taxes, and nothing else. You too are afraid of your government, because of the way you think (warning: I'm not saying it's wrong, I just say I think different): you always expect something in return, and you think everyone else also expects something in return. Well, I think the government is more harmless than a big corporation. Sure, a huge government monopolizing everything is not healthier either.
Do I hate big corporations? Certainly not, I try to avoid them whenever I can, because you give them more power if you buy things from them. But obviously there are certain things, huge things, that can't be paid by small companies: A large scale network, like the phone, cable, well those are examples of things that can't be done by small companies.
But then you have the big corporation scandals, all over the place. Enron, Worldcom... A tiny government that allows itself to be lobbied, and that's what happens. Big corporations care only about the numbers, and WILL fuck anything they need in order to keep their numbers high enough (the premise is "it's never enough").
You also say that "Spending that money brought down the Iron Curtain and freed western Europe." What? Are you on crack or what? That money actually help build the iron curtain. The USSR wasn't as bad as you and I were told it was. If they were poor it was only because you provoked them, you made them spend more and more in weapons and military. If you weren't there to bother them, they MIGHT have been a happy communist country, and nothing else. But no, america can't stand the idea of communism, not even socialism, so we have to destroy it. You didn't free western europe either. You only went there because the japs touched your ass. It wasn't your war. Vietnam wasn't either, and you were there to "free" them.
See it this way: If you didn't shake the USSR, maybe they wouldn't have needed so many AK-47s. Those AK's wouldn't be in the hand of muslim extremists now. They wouldn't be so powerful, maybe 9/11 wouldn't have happened if you didn't bring down the iron courtain. That's how I see it.
Dude, wake up. War is business. Billions of dollars in the hands of the corporations who make the weapons, and that's
All through the cold war, when the USSR truly wanted to destroy the US, AND the USSR had backpack nukes, the US/Canada border was open. If the border could be open then, when one or 2 individuals could have walked into the US with a nuke, very realistically, why do I need a passport now? It's bullshit.
Overall I appreciate your post, but this one point is terribly superficial. The USSR was not suicidal, it's leaders loved their children and wanted them to live and prosper, they did not view a WW3'ish scenario as a prophesized day of judgement where those fighting in the jihad get a free ticket to paradise.
And next year the hold the con in Germany so as to avoid this. Honestly though is it a big deal? He's (was) already here, just let him go to the freaking con. I hope at least they didn't charge him for the flight back..
Some hacker this guy is, can't even socially engineer his way into the country.
Wanna fight ? Bend over, stick your head up your ass, and fight for air.
You'll also note that I didn't say that I AGREED with the terrorism angle, I simply stated that's the reason WHY it is happening.
Really people, this is Slashdot - news for nerds and all. I figured that geeks would be a step above the usual sheep you meet walking the streets but apparently the sheep post here too...
Sapere aude!
Now if you look at the actions of the United States over at least the past 20 years you'll note that we don't have a policy of randomly going around and bombing people, it was always as a reaction to other people's aggressive actions. This is no different than any other nation out there, poke a nation and it will react, same as any individual would.
I'd ease off that high horse before it throws you and you knock your head on a rock.
Sapere aude!
"If you know that there is a crime being committed, then YOU are obligated to report it. If you know that they are illegal and you do not report them, then you are a criminal for obstructing justice."
o f-justice.html
u stice/
8 /usc_sup_01_18_10_I_20_73.html
Got supporting evidence for that statement?
Non-reporting does not equal "obstruction". Non-reporting is not an action. "Obstruction" is an action.
http://research.lawyers.com/glossary/obstruction-
http://definitions.uslegal.com/o/obstruction-of-j
http://uscode.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode1
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
1. I'm sure everyone has been in situations where the person behind the desk has all the authority they need to make your problem go away... but by rigidly follows the rules, refuses to do anything to help you. That's the bureaucratic mindset you've described and it generally isn't a good thing.
2. Do you think this sort of thing would have happened to someone with the right connections? Or would they have bent over backwards to smooth out the bumps?
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
Certainly Canada has some advantages... its not too far to visit relatives in the US, and unless you're dealing with quebec sepratists, there's not much of a language barrier.
However, Canada has some strange things like a blank media tax, and some upsetting free speech concerns. Something comes to mind about it being a hate crime in Canada for a pastor to state that they think homosexuality is sinful/immoral. I don't tend to concern myself with the morality of other peoples sexuality, but I concern myself a lot with what the government says I can and cannot say. Although just this week a kid in the US has been charged with 2 felony hate crimes for flushing Qurans in the toilet of his college.. so apparently the US is just as bad now.
I have taken a trip to Montreal and the women are fantastic looking (although now that I'm married, that's not quite the draw it might have once been), and they have their own F1 GP there, which simply has to be a better experience than going to the US GP in Indianpolis, because Montreal is in all manners a less awful place than Indianpolis.
The canadians I've met have all had two things in common. 1) They're funny. 2) They're laid back. I could do with more of those sorts of people, honestly.
My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.
Now if you look at the actions of the United States over at least the past 20 years you'll note that we don't have a policy of randomly going around and bombing people
Absolutely correct.
The USA does not *randomly* bomb just *anyone*. In almost all cases the people who get bombed by the USA are *brown* people. People of *colour*.
Apart from the Germans, but they were trying to move in on Americas action. "World domination? Thats *our* fuckin job!!!"
Serbs probably come under that category sort of -- they were bombing *Muslims* thats *Americas* job!!! Cheeky bastards those Serbs, bomb them!!!
In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
In your mind, case closed at that point. I'm sorry this happened, but is it really so shocking?
Whats really shocking is that he didn't wind up in Gitmo.
I mean *what* has the department of homeland security come to????
In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
You're rather ignorant, though.
Kuwait (not a democracy, by the way) drilled diagonal wells into Iraq's oil fields. Iraq signaled its intention to defend those oil fields via diplomatic channels to the US, and the US approved of them. So yes, Gulf War 1.0 was quite random and uncalled for.
Man, I had forgotten what it feels to not care what someone might do to you or whatever. Just do what you want, and chances are nobody will mind it. It has a dark side, too, drivers usually speed up when you try to cross in front of them. You know, the stronger one wins. Oh, and there's never enough money for everything, but anyways... If you haven't yet, try it. If you have the guts. And the women... Damn, I miss home...
Even moreso, illegal immigrants are afraid of _any_ attention from the U.S. government. The IRS has routinely taken the stand that they don't care whether or not you're legally able to work here, as long as they get their money. The net result is that rather than go out of their way to find potentially questionable deductions from their taxes, they take fewer deductions than average.
No comment.
About a month ago, some of my coworkers attended a conference on molecular spectroscopy in the US. One of the scheduled talks there was canceled because the speaker was denied entry to the US. Apparently, when the border control asked him about his profession, he said that he's an "atomic physicist".
I think if this sort of thing continues, more and more conference organizers will simply opt to hold their conferences in countries that are a bit more free.
Yes, I realize that exception exists. However, I don't think that applies in this case.
I'll give you an example of "training services": A large insurance company in Canada decides to implement service oriented architecture. They contract a consultant from the USA to come up to the company and give a few training sessions to the IT department. In this case, they would have to apply for a work permit.
I'm not really familiar with how Blackhat works, but assuming Blackhat is just a regular conference where members of the public attend on their own, then I don't see why a speaker would require a work permit to speak at the event (if it was held in Canada).
You know dude, that's not so much the point as that I spend my tourist Euros rather in places where I feel welcome. Now, giving your quite foul attitude you probably couldn't care less. But consider this:
Very qualified researchers and students shun the US and prefer to teach and study in other places. Important conferencs are held outside of the US. Evil, but important foreigners from multinational companies refuse to fly into the US for meetings, due to the crap and the indignity they are put through.
You may say, who cares? Well, for a start the deans of a few top university who voiced their fears about tightening (alas useless) immigration laws years ago, the economy will care. Multinational US companies care, since it's much, much harder to find top people outside of the US who are willing to put up with this shit. All those consequences are medium to long term, but will hurt the US. There are a lot more good reasons why a xenophobic attitude towards everything foreign, especially highly qualified people, will hurt a country.
Now who exactly is the fucktard?
ich bin der musikant
mit taschenrechner in der hand
kraftwerk
I thought that work regulations do not concern lectures and short trainings? And least it is how it seemed to work in most civilized countries... :-)
Halvar, seriously: Don't go to the US anymore.
/. would've labeled me paranoid and anti-american for that statement. Today, I fear, most will agree and some will post details of the relevant laws.
I've avoided them ever since DeCSS (I was a named defendant) and I don't plan to change that. As I see it, for a foreign national in the computer security business, pretty much anything you do while, before or potentially-might-do-after your trip can result in them locking you up indefinitely.
And the real horror is: A couple years ago, people even on
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
Yes, the border with Eire has never had passport checks. Oddly enough, this situation persisted all through the "troubles", when terrorists were regularly travelling from Ireland to the UK and blowing things up. Yet the current situation, where UK citizens are rebelling against their own government and blowing things up, is being used as an excuse for tighter border controls.
Try Somalia, or Nigeria or somewhere like that, then. Seriously, do you think more guns and fewer laws makes a good place to live?
Sorry man, Spanish is a language spoken in Spain a country located in Europe, one of the ten most developed countries in the world.
Hispans is the correct word if you want refer to Spanish speakers who lives in central and south America, they are a mix of native people and Spanish citizens in the American conquest a lot of years ago.
It's like say to an American native apache he is English.
I would suspect that immigrations has quotas of how many people they need to reject. If they haven't reached their quota yet, then anyone who doesn't have his papers correct the first time is fair game.
There is something fundamentally wrong with this picture! This fellow was to come for a presentation, not to STEAL JOBS. Germans don't come to STEAL JOBS. They have a better quality of life than we Yankees. We all know who gets the H1B's. We all know who comes to STEAL JOBS. Can't you all hear George Harrison playing in the background? We can't have any violation of stereotypes for that would lead to unacceptable chaos. Those customs agents must have failed Ethnocentrism 101. Send them back to screwel!
Submission as evidence constitutes plaintiff and/or prosecutorial misconduct.
You said it yourself - if you poke people, they will react.
I think you overstate Mill's interest in true freedom. As near as I can tell, free market and individual liberty are instruments for advanacing society, which is his ultimate purpose, and where those mechanisms are not sufficient or optimal, he is happy to dispense with them unceremoniously. Nevermind that by the time of his death, much of his position could be called outright socialism. While the quote he gets attention for (over ones self, the individual reigns supreme, roughly) is indeed a good one, obviously that's not the entirety of his message.
Mill himself was not publicly educated, and infact, given the hardship he endured from his child education, one wonders if he's got a bit of a reactinoary criticism of home school, which a the time, was the norm, while public education was something entirely less common.
Irrespective of Mill's opinion, the overwhelming body of evidence in the US is that homeschooling has nothing but significant advanatages for the students it produces.
Finally, on your point of indoctrination. Indoctrination by the state of the masses (i.e. public education) must necessarily be worse than indoctrination of an individual or two by one "errant" family members. I see no intrinsic value in limiting fundamentalist christians teaching their own children. That you assume public education would completely defeat fundamentalist indoctrination suggests that you have an irrational fear of Christians, as opposed to any real understanding of their concerns, and that you overstate the effectiveness of public education.
Your allusion to the 30 years war being a result of Christian fundamentalist home schooling is... curious. Public education was non-existant in much of the US until the early 1900s, and we certainly had more religious denominations intermigling here than centrla Europe did. Why was the US not destroyed by religiously motivated civil war?
In any case, it is precisely because I was publicly educated that I am adamant that I have legally protected alternatives for my own child. Not because I was shrouded in some sort of religious ignorance (far from it, infact).
A student of history is well advised to be fearful of religious fundamentalism and where it may lead. A wiser student of history is even better advised to be even more fearful of state fundamentalism and power, and where it ALWAYS leads.
My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.
This is a very serious matter for the technical and scientific community. A lot of us travel internationally to attend technical conferences with little or no customs hassles. Now other countries will probably retaliate by requiring special visas for US citizens to attend conferences in their countries. This is going to curtail a lot of this travel for US citizens. Just another example of the US becoming more isolated and further behind than the rest of the world. Thanks a lot George Bush.
A large component of the Blackhat conference is the training sessions. In fact the name of the conference itself is Blackhat "USA 2007 Briefings & Training". It was very likely to be prominently displayed on the actual contract he showed the Immigration officer, so I don't think it would be much of a leap for an American (or Canadian) immigration officer to inquire if he was doing any training which, depending on how he answered, could make that clause apply and make him non-except.
This was a very interesting thread to read. I must say a happy medium would be great. Having come down with a chronic illness, you either have to be dirt poor, or middle upperclass. The lower-middle class is painful.
(Nice one,hjf)
One case in point - when my sisters family travel to the US (Vermont, where they own a house) from Bermuda, one of her 3 sons ( a nine(9) year-old) is ALWAYS strip-searched, the other two are not. Its obvious to me that the idea is to make people arriving in the US feel that they could randomly be arrested for nothing, so that they are always a bit scared & do what they are told, just in case there's an error and they end up in Gitmo. I wouldn't risk going to the US if you paid me.
You obviously have no idea of what you are talking about.
3 times....
No, no, the "hate crimes" thing was just a misinterpretation that was spread. The key concept is "incite to violence", priests can definitely voice their malcontent about homosexuals in the church or in general, you just can't tell your parishioners to kill, beat, maim or verbally abuse homosexuals. But this is pretty much the same everywhere, you can't go walking around telling people that "Arabs are bad" and that we "should jail them all", but you're not really allowed to say that anywhere in the western world.
As to the "blank media tax", it only applies to CDs (which means that DVD+-R are actually cheaper than CD-R :), but it's also helped keep the MAFIAA at bay. P2P "services" are not really in violation of the law here (AFAIK & for now). In one landmark case, the judge basically said "You can't nail this person for stealing music, they paid the blank media tax so they're allowed to grab this music and burn it on to a CD, that's what they paid the tax for."
As to the women, hey, beautiful women are everywhere :) I would personally cast my vote for Winnipeg, which is best described as a big city (750k) with a small town mentality. Filled with lots of humble, hard-working people, the women tend to follow this trend, so they're not just beautiful, they're actually approachable ;) (guess where I met my fiancé?)
Winnipeg is a 3hr drive for me. What should I check out if I come to visit for an afternoon?
My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.
I was mostly agreeing with you (USA healthcare system is crazy and extremely unfair), until I got to this part:
You also say that "Spending that money brought down the Iron Curtain and freed western Europe." What? Are you on crack or what? That money actually help build the iron curtain. The USSR wasn't as bad as you and I were told it was. If they were poor it was only because you provoked them, you made them spend more and more in weapons and military
Maybe you need to read more into 20th century history from very recent historians (read: not from the 80s nor 90s).
The USSR was worst than everybody thought, and we were several times very close to KYABB (kiss your behind bye-bye). We misscounted how many ICBMs they had, we disdained their modern aircraft (Su-27, Mig-29 and all that generation were extremely good machines).
But thanks to the cold war, the West (not only the USA) drove USSR economy to the ground. Maybe too fast. If instead of Mikhail Gorbatxev the USSR had elected a different guy, there was a fat chance that USSR would have invaded western Europe as a way to improve their economy.
And with the red army rolling, in 7 days they could easily arrive to south of France. Even without nukes.
So there. Reagan saved us all. Even if you don't like Reaganomics. And that Peace made possible Clinton and the golden years (golden years wasted by the Bush Jr years, but I disgress).
Peace
That's what I said. Cold war drove the USSR's economy to hell, because of the US constantly picking on the USSR. If the US didn't do that, I don't think they would have had such a powerful Red Army (they grew exponentially during the cold war, not before that). And because of that, they might have had a better economy, without a need to attack either France or anyone in the West.
Look at china now. They are communists, but they never hurt anyone (agreed, except a few neighbors), they never tried to expaind their evil red empire all over the world. That's what I think it would have been with the USSR. But the USSR was too near from the Masters of the Universe® (the US), and their Super Friends® (UK, France, Germany...).
But China is under US control now, economically. The US have a huge debt with China. If some day China tries something weird... the US just has to push a few buttons an drive China's economy to hell. No need for WMDs.
But China is under US control now, economically.
Wag the dog.
The current administration of the United States has made claiming to be "fighting terrorism" their only priority.
There. A little bit closer to reality.
Unless you're referring to a slow war of attrition against civil liberties and the constitution by CAIR and other pro-radical Islam agencies here in the US, then, no, I'd say nothing of the sort is happening.
My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.
"Disappointing for a nation with so much capability to do good.." -- I agree with every word of your sentence.