Office Printers May Pose Health Risks

drewmoney writes "The BBC reports on new findings which may have implications for the way offices are laid out. According to an Australian study, around a third of modern printer models release 'potentially dangerous levels of toner into the air' as they are completing a job. 'Almost one-third were found to emit ultra-tiny particles of toner-like material, so small that they can infiltrate the lungs and cause a range of health problems from respiratory irritation to more chronic illnesses. Conducted in an open-plan office, the test revealed that particle levels increased five-fold during working hours, a rise blamed on printer use. '"

Comments

we've solved this problem

[yagu]

We worked out an agreement with all the smokers on the floor. We've installed our printer outside the front entrance about 20 feet away from the door. That's where all of the smokers go to take a break... they're saving money on cigarettes, and the office air is clean. Of course, it's a bit of a hassle waiting for the smokers to bring in our printouts.

Re:we've solved this problem

[FlatLine84]

I can see the ads for ambulance chasers in the future... "I've you've been diagnosed with Tonertheilioma, fight for your right to compensation!"

Re:we've solved this problem

[HitekHobo]

If this plan gets adopted, it's going to negate the need for me to post scare stories on /. about toner.

Knock it off, you're ruining my income from ink jet refills!

Re:we've solved this problem

[jellomizer]

Have you ever seen a printer coming from an envrionment where people are smoking... A pristine white plastic printer becomes a near brown printer. The gears get covered with cigerette tar, I have seen some so bad (on solid Ink printers) that the heads were clogged and the printer needed new heads. They are absolutly discusting... And you people willingly breath in this stuff? And it took hundreds of years before doctors realized that smoking is bad for you? Man you people sure are dumb.

Re:we've solved this problem

[iamdrscience]

they're saving money on cigarettes

Not until they make nicotine toner cartridges they aren't.

Re:we've solved this problem

[Heftklammerdosierer!]

Call it Nicotoner. A catchy name means you're half way to success already!

Then a few years later market the Nicotoner Patch, promising to finally usher in the era of paperless offices.

Re:we've solved this problem

[Corporate Troll]

They are absolutly discusting...

It's disgusting, and this isn't limited to printers. Keyboards, cases, anything that touches smoke is going to get brown. Well, "dark-beige", if you want. I'm guilty myself for smoking.

Doctors realised a long time ago that smoke was bad for you. I've seen quotes of over 100 years old saying that "smoke was vile". Anyway, you also have to realise that smoking became way more common with the introduction of the cigarette that was made to be smoked anytime anyplace. A hundred years ago, the man came home and smoke a pipe and only one because tobacco was hugely expensive and a big luxury. Cigars were the same: you took time to enjoy them. Cigarettes changed that all. So the amount consumed was way less than it was not, making the health impact much less.

I don't like cigarettes at all, as you might have understood by now. Yet, I love my cigars.

Re:we've solved this problem

[ajs318]

That's like the dodgy landlord who asked all prospective tenants if they smoked ..... if you said "yes" he put you in a house with asbestos, and if you said "no" he put you in a house with a gas leak.

Re:we've solved this problem

[GiMP]

the era of paperless offices

And the air of paperless offices too.

Re:we've solved this problem

[xENoLocO]

I can see the Phillip-Morris style PSA's from HP already... lol

Re:we've solved this problem

[Anonymous Coward]

Inhale Nicotoner-

"It's Toasted!"

Re:we've solved this problem

[russotto]

Inkjets? You're talking about a device which deliberately aerosolizes and ionizes organic and inorganic solvents containing toxic pigments and dyes. Stuff's deadly. Stay away. Best just to use pencil and paper... uhh, wait, using a pencil releases carbon microparticles.... better skip the hardcopy entirely.

Re:we've solved this problem

[Kadin2048]

better skip the hardcopy entirely.

And irradiate myself by using a computer monitor? No way!

Re:we've solved this problem

[utopianfiat]

Agreed. I can't stand cigarettes at all, but I own a hookah and my roommates and I will prepare a bowl of tobacco shisha once a week or so- iirc and correct me if I'm wrong (acmiir?) the amount of tobacco in a hookah bowl is about the same as a single cigarette and the fact that it's run through water removes a good bit of the tar and toxins from the smoke.
Then again, such is the justification behind the invention of the bong...

Re:we've solved this problem

[fbjon]

Sounds like a Matchmaker of Death.

Re:we've solved this problem

[zippthorne]

I'm pretty sure the water doesn't do anything useful. Maybe absorbs a little of the smell while looking cool, but that's about it. When you exhale, can you see the smoke? What do you think that is, steam?

If you're using less tobacco, that's your biggest benefit, but if you're using less tobacco because you're using a certain more potent herb, you're not getting any benefit at all. The bad stuff in cigarettes doesn't come from the tobacco, it comes from the burning tobacco. Any leaf you burn is going to be just as bad.

Re:we've solved this problem

[broggyr]

That's what flat panels are for :)

Re:we've solved this problem

[Some_Llama]

From what i have heard it is worse.. wikipedia says this:

"Research suggests that a session of shisha tobacco smoking (tobacco molasses) which lasts 45 minutes delivers 36 times more tar, 15 times more carbon monoxide and 70% more nicotine than a single cigarette.[10] "

But check out the whole section.. as it was with early smoking studies it seems the same with hookas.. one side says BAD, the other side says nah no biggie:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hookah#Health_benefit s_and_risks

Re:we've solved this problem

[Anonymous Coward]

The backlight in your LCD display has toxic mercury which can get into groundwater and eventually accumulate in fish!

Re:we've solved this problem

[Frosty Piss]

Keyboards, cases, anything that touches smoke is going to get brown. Well, "dark-beige", if you want.

Which is why most new computers come in "slate". Hides the filth buildup.

Re:we've solved this problem

[DeathElk]

Won't someone please think of the FISH!

Re:we've solved this problem

[Anonymous Coward]

The bad stuff in cigarettes doesn't come from the tobacco, it comes from the burning tobacco. Any leaf you burn is going to be just as bad. Chewing tobacco is also bad... Since it's not the tobacco, does this mean anything you chew will be bad for you too?

I don't know how where you got the idea that all of the problems with cigarettes are simply because they're burned, and that every kind of smoke is just as bad as any other kind of smoke.

Of course smoke isn't good for you, but there are certainly quite a few chemicals in tobacco that play a major role in the health problems associated with it. Any leaf you burn is going to contain different chemicals, unless it's from the same plant. Plants are made up of many different chemicals. As far as a "certain more potent herb" goes, people aren't typically smoking the leaves anyway.

Re:we've solved this problem

[bioluminescence]

> Have you ever seen a printer coming from an envrionment where people are smoking... A pristine white plastic printer becomes a near brown printer.

Plastic discoloration has hardly anything to do with tobacco smoke.

Great!

[CaptScarlet22]

I'll have to put one right next to my supervisor, then.

Thanks for the tip!!

I smell settlement!

[BabaYama]

When do I get my coupon for one(1) free toner cartridge?

Re:I smell settlement!

[Anonymous Coward]

wouldn't that be like the tobacco companies paying their fines with free cigarettes?

personally i'd like some cash back, not free toner.

Re:I smell settlement!

[Anonymous Coward]

When do I get my coupon for one(1) free toner cartridge?
When you fill out the rebate form and mail it back.

it's for their own good

[Anonymous Coward]

See... I've always told my employees that we lock them up in isolation chambers for their own good.

Paper shredders do this too

[conspirator57]

They release both paper dust and toner dust. I've known people who've gotten several sinus infections over their tenure near large print/shred stations (several B/W and color printers, fax, fine grain shredders.)

Get a portable HEPA filter and droop it in the vicinity of your printers and your problems (if you have any) will get measurably better.

Re:Paper shredders do this too

[jellomizer]

Our body can deal with normal dust size particles, including from paper... toner dust is extreamly fine, you need a special vaccume to really clean this stuff up. Breathing it would probably have simular effects of smoking being that the dust is so fine that you body cant expel it from the body causing irratitions.

Re:Paper shredders do this too

[slughead]

They release both paper dust and toner dust. I've known people who've gotten several sinus infections over their tenure near large print/shred stations (several B/W and color printers, fax, fine grain shredders.)

That's one explanation. The BBC also says that "particle levels rise" during work hours... note that it doesn't specify the type of particles... well here are some other explanations:

1. Perfumes worn by employees
2. Dead skin (which is what 'dust' usually is)
3. Particulates stirred up by people walking around
4. Higher speed air due to cooling/heating systems which release and stir up dust

Does this remind anyone of "WiFi in schools causes cancer! Cell towers cause even more!" This was yet another BBC scare-story.

I can't believe anyone even reads the BBC's science and technology articles, especially after that.

Re:Paper shredders do this too

[RxScram]

Please don't forget natural methane gas production.

Re:Paper shredders do this too

[Falesh]

This is a small piece in the asia-pacific section of the site reporting the results of some research by a team of Australian scientists. That is hardly what I would call a scare story.

Just because one scare story got through does not mean the reputation of the whole BBC is ruined, it just means that sometimes shit happens.

Re:Paper shredders do this too

[davidsyes]

In the USN, I serviced our comm center's shredder (shredding to something like 1/32 of an inch, and reversing the unit would mean hours of unjamming effort), the 4 or so different teletypes in Radio and CIC, and the liquid and dry toner copiers on my own ship, but sometimes on the 2 or 3 ships in my DesRon (Destroyer Squadron) to which my command loaned me for days or up to 14 days.

In 1986, between teletype courses, I learned to service the Savin 772S (or 722S?) liquid toner copier, the shipboard or marinized version of the famous copier. It had a deeper toner collection trough than shore-based units. Later that same year, I learned to service and repair the dry toner units, which had to have special seals to keep the magnetic toner from dispersing into the radio shack (comm center) equipment. (Can you imagine after a few months of exposure not to the lungs but to the URT-23's, WSC-3's, UYK-47, LTP-7', etc... what would happen? The equipment would fail or short out, despite their own filtration, in some cases.)

After discharging, I for one year used to service Savin liquid toner copiers back in 1988. (I'm not worried about lawsuits as they ARE on my resume, and I have no particular or personal problems with any PEOPLE I worked with there.) I had to dispose of the liquid toner AND the dispersant. Sometimes we "left" it in the customers' waste baskets if we were quick enough. Other times, savvy customers demanded WE dispose of it elsewhere.

(Oh, and I would log some 25 to 100 miles per day on my car, going as far as Soquel, Pescadero, San Franciso, sometimes but rarely the East Bay, but mostly Los Gatos, and the Peninsula and downtown SJ... so imagine the GASes my former 1988 2-door hatchback Honda Accord might have been putting out).

Now to put this in perspective, servicing TWO to 6 copiers a day, I'd have to change toner or add dispersant or drain off some to do one or both of those. Sometimes I dumped it in my dad's trash can or at the customers', or at their premises. I would be non-surprised if other companies' employees did the same and even dumped it down the drains.

Now, of course the company (or, should I say, our managers, supervisors, and experienced co-workers) told us to use Playtex rubber gloves, but after a while if the springs and tools didn't RIP or TEAR our gloves, the dispersant (alcohol, basically some and petroleum distillate) would dissolve or weaken the gloves, assuring quicker tearing by spring and tool.

I used to hang out at a couple of clubs into the we hours when smoking in bars/clubs/indoors in CA was still legal. Between the cigarette smoke and the toner and dispersant and after a year of this, my health and concentration were being affected, dinging my morale, leading to problems that eventually led to a mutual separation of me from the company. After a few weeks of separation, my health quality shot up markedly and I was my normal self again. How GREAT it felt to not have black toner circumscribing and getting under my nails M-F, clean by Sun AM and dirty again by Mon AM, and how good it felt not having liquid dispersant (petroleum distillate) drying my skin, penetrating my organs, and not having issues any more.

Later, as a contractor, an agency sent me to a BioPharm in Mountain View. They had a copy room maybe 10' x 15', noisy as hell and definitely containing more than nose-detectable amounts of toner and ionized air. I don't recall a partuclates filtration system, but there was a suction ventilation duct.

So, it is MORE than an office issue, it is also likely still a particulates issue for the outside, too, unless special vacuum units exist on-site.

Re:Paper shredders do this too

[Lurker2288]

I'm not an environmental testing expert, but would perfumes really be considered particulates? You'd have to have a pretty damn fine filter to screen out that stuff.

Re:Paper shredders do this too

[Yes BlueBerries]

Or perform proper maintenance. The author mentioned large differences even with the same model of printer, I would guess part of it was use and maintenance. I forgot the exact sheet count, but photocopiers and some printers have filters to replace to reduce ozone emissions. A random Google search of +"ozone filter" +"laser printer" gave over 800 results including http://www.laserkare.com/tips.htm which listed changing the filter "At 10,000 prints, the air flow through your printer is cut in half." Of course, the maintenance guide is likely to contain when to do service and if not the information is likely to be with a replacement part and some parts may have longer service times than others.

Also note that older products might have been manufactured to lower environmental standards.

Management perspective

[IBBoard]

Managers across the country have been heard mumbling things like "Forget the employees, how can we recover all of this lost toner to extend toner cartridge life and reduce print costs?" and "So that's why our toner life was never as long as the brochure".

Re:Management perspective

[Anonymous Coward]

I once worked in an office where the air was kept intolerably dry - I'm talking nosebleeds and sinus infections dry. This was not a semiconductor cleanroom or anything like that, just a regular office.

When these concerns were brought to management, they responded by saying dry air is better for the computers and other electronic equipment. It didn't seem to matter that these conditions were impacting their meat-based assets, they were totally focused on preserving their electronic assets.

Re:Management perspective

[vought]

When these [dry air] concerns were brought to management, they responded by saying dry air is better for the computers and other electronic equipment

Sure! Because dry air makes static, and static is electricity...and, uh, computers run on electricity!

I'd think the biggest air quality issues have to do with older laser printers that not only fluff toner, but which also have depleted ozone filters. An office full of ozone is definitely bad news - and every LaserJet 4 or 5 I've seen over the past few years has been one of these 'gross polluters'.

Re:Management perspective

[1u3hr]

An office full of ozone is definitely bad news - and every LaserJet 4 or 5 I've seen over the past few years has been one of these 'gross polluters'.

Actually, the LJ 4 and later don't emit ozone at all.

HP LaserJet and HP Color LaserJet Series Printers - Information about Ozone Emissions
The HP LaserJet IIP, IIP Plus, and IIIP series printers generate ozone emissions far below 0.1 parts per million while printing. The HP LaserJet IIISi, 4, and 4M series printers do not emit ozone at any time. The reason is that none of these printers have corona wires.

Let's not forget

[Anonymous Coward]

You can allways sue every printer maker if you live in the US.

Re:Let's not forget

[Anonymous Coward]

You can allways sue every printer maker if you live in the US. Because we all know nobody in any country other than the US has ever sued anyone else.

Obvious

[SatanicPuppy]

Particulate pollution is common. If you live in a big city, you know what I'm talking about, just by seeing the crap that accumulates on your clothes after walking around for a few hours.

This study says nothing that isn't trivially obvious. Does airborne toner represent a particular health threat above and beyond the whole "breathing particles into your lungs" thing, or is this just another "ZOMG! Stuff in the air!" study with no actual facts to back it up. Doubly annoying for them to compare it to smoking, because the least problem with smoking is the particulates.

Re:Obvious

[arivanov]

Depends if this is particulate toner after thermal processing or particulate toner in the form found in the cartridge.

Dunno about the former as it is bound to have larger and less active particles, but the latter is a known health hazard on par with glass dust and asbestos. Just look at any IT health and safety handbook under "dealing with toner spillages". It is supposed to be collected using specialised vacuum cleaners, you have to have the floor tiles replaced and so on. Unfortunately very few people follow these procedures.

Further to this, I find these findings quite strange. Most manufacturers go to insane lengths to avoid toner emission into the air so that they do not get an asbestos style class action suit.

Re:Obvious

[Aladrin]

http://householdproducts.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/house hold/brands?tbl=brands&id=8020008&query=Toner&sear chas=type&prodcat=all

"Prolonged inhalation of excessive amounts of any dust may cause lung damage. Use of this product as intended does not result in inhalation of excessive amounts of dust."

They rate it as low risk mainly BECAUSE it's not airborne during normal use. This study says that it is. It also says it's a possible carcinogen.

I just picked a cartridge at random, so there may be some out there that are much worse, but this pretty much shows that they didn't spend much time dealing with the effects of airborne toner, because they didn't think it would be a problem.

As for the 'big city' 'pollution is common' statement... I instantly got an image of Neo-Tokyo where everyone was wearing masks because the smog was so hazardous that day. -sigh- I'm starting to consider it myself, and I don't even work/live in a big city.

Re:Obvious

[Raineer]

Further to this, I find these findings quite strange. Most manufacturers go to insane lengths to avoid toner emission into the air so that they do not get an asbestos style class action suit.

Eh, maybe for smaller office printers they do but not in the commercial "toner" printing industry (like phone bills and the like). My company's printers (and our competitors) dust the entire room at an alarming rate. After working on a more dirty problem it's very likely to come out looking like a coal miner, black snot and all.

The problem is these get installed in your typical raised-floor computer rooms in the same area as storage and CPU's, sometimes not more than 10-20 feet away.

Toner isn't asbestos. Sure it's particulate and it may even be harmful (as an obstruction, like anything else) but there are way too many lifelong printer repairman in my company and lung/breathing issues are no more common here than anywhere else. I know a large number of them personally and the health problems just don't exist in any substantial amount. The division that deals with HDD and tape manufacturer has had a lot more public health issues with their materials.

Sure our company has funded studies which say Carbon Black is not harmful, but of course we all take this with a large grain of salt. I rely much more highly on the people I have personally known over the years.

Re:Obvious

[Darth_brooks]

Further to this, I find these findings quite strange. Most manufacturers go to insane lengths to avoid toner emission into the air so that they do not get an asbestos style class action suit.

Today's my last day on the job as my company's resident "printer bitch." After a year and a half on the job I can safely say that most the toner emission doesn't usually come from normal use. It comes from directly from fucksticks.

Over time, printers will spill some toner that will eventually work its way out of the printer and into the air. It happens. But more often than not you get huge toner spills because some idiot goes slamming and banging cheap cartridges. Apparently, the non-technical response to any printer or fax problem is "pull the toner out and put it back in" (I think this is directly related to the "take out the cartridge and blow on it" NES repair method.) this invariably leads to someone getting pissy, slamming the cartridge back in the machine, and breaking a seal. Now you've got toner spilling out every time someone dicks with the cartridge. I've cleaned out printers that took multiple vacuum filters to clean out. Panasonic faxes were the worst for this, their carts. would crack and spill in a heartbeat.

People can bitch about this as an office hazard, but if the employees would act like adults around the equipment, it wouldn't be an issue in the first place. But no, some idiot thinks it'd be cool to pull a Samir on the fax machine.

(actually, I think I will will pull a Samir later this afternoon. I'll just take the toner out first...)

Re:Obvious

[Jeff DeMaagd]

I wasn't aware that toner dust was being emitted. I was aware that the printers do emit ozone though, I smell a faint hint of it from time to time. It might be a double-whammy, though the toner seems minuscule to non-existent in comparison.

Re:Obvious

[arivanov]

Sure it's particulate and it may even be harmful. So is asbestous. Chemically asbestous is a very inert material. You are right, so far the statistical evidence is that toner it is not particularly harmfull. None the less, I have always tried to chose the furthest possible part of an open office plan from the printing station.

Re:Obvious

[Skater]

Yep. In our new office building, the rooms with the copiers and high speed printers have special filtration and air handling systems, so we're told not to prop open the doors. We still have lasers out in the general area, though.

Re:Obvious

[dbIII]

Having worked where there is a lot of coal dust in the air and occasional asbestos I'm not ready to dismiss it out of hand (especially since I haven't read the article yet). What is important is size, shape, numbers and what it does when it gets in your lungs. Inert material is suprisingly paticularly nasty - it doesn't break down so it stays in there to scratch away at lung tissue as your lungs move (major cause of damage from asbestos).

Re:Obvious

[afidel]

Actually toner is NOT a carcinogen because the carbon black (which is dubiously linked to cancer to begin with) is bound within a polymer matrix in the toner. For more info see this study related to carbon black as it relates to toner and California prop 65.

Re:Obvious

[trolltalk.com]

"e latter is a known health hazard on par with glass dust and asbestos. Just look at any IT health and safety handbook under "dealing with toner spillages". It is supposed to be collected using specialised vacuum cleaners, you have to have the floor tiles replaced and so on. Unfortunately very few people follow these procedures."

Lovely - now some "terr'rist dickhead" will bring toner onto airplanes in 3 oz bottles, to give the TSA a reason to ban ALL containers! Scary stuff.

Seriously, if you've ever spilled even a bit of toner, that stuff is almost impossible to clean up.

Re:Obvious

[wsanders]

What's obvious to me is that the smell of even trace amounts of toner in the air can attract lawyers.

Crap, now everyone is going to put that knowledge to use by putting laser printers at the bottom of deep holes lined with pungee sticks.

Re:Obvious

[socz]

i have a really nice high speed color copier in my office. It spits out toner like crazy! So much so, that i started getting headaches after working in this area. So, i ordered some fans through the company and placed them around this and another machine. But the color one is especially bad, since you can tell on the wall behind it where the toner comes out.

And the other posters are right, the tech's breath a lot of this crap in more than anyone else. Although i'm sure it plays some part in health problems, it shouldn't be the root of it. Although, this color machine does state that it releases ionized air. When i've asked tech's about this, they say "don't worry about it, it's not bad" hahaha

Re:Obvious

[Macgrrl]

Part of my current role involves doing digital printroom designs. We specify 3-4 full room air changes per hour exhausted to the outside. Oddly enough the primary concern is not the toner particulates but the fumes released from the inks in pre-printed stocks which outgoss when headed running through the digital print engine.

Hm?

[ed.mps]

Air conditioners are better in making your health crappier along the work time... --- oblygatory: but about the printers, anyone has ever imagined a beowulf cluster of these?

Why do people still print?

[cryfreedomlove]

I work in an office where there are nice projectors in every conference room and everyone has a lap top. Still, there are a few dinosaurs that bring stacks of printed slides for everyone in a meetingif they are presenting. Why do some people still do this? In my opinion, and printer is about as valuable in a modern office as horse stalls are in a modern firehouse.

Re:Why do people still print?

[HitekHobo]

Err.. I have killed a tree or two printing out RFC's because it was just more comfortable to read them in a different position. Bad hacker! Bad!

Re:Why do people still print?

[Anonymous Coward]

Some people sometimes do other business than attending meetings...

Re:Why do people still print?

[Prof.Phreak]

Why do some people still do this?

They need -something- to do!

Re:Why do people still print?

[Anonymous Coward]

Because 8" x 10" tablets are still being spec'ed as laptops, rather than cheap, light PDF viewers. I'm still searching for a device which is:

• the size (or close to) of letter paper
• Has the minimum horsepower to render PDFs (and maybe HTML, but this is optional)
• Low weight and power usage commensurate with above
• 1 USB port (so I can copy files to it like it were an external HD)
• 1 CF or SD expansion slot
• For extra credit: 802.11b for display of documents on the network (HTTP, SMB, whatever)
• Even more extra credit: Touch screen *only* if it provided some kind of document search interface. Otherwise, forget it.

No CD-ROM drive, no hard drive, no Windows XP, no 1 GB of RAM, no wired ethernet. I have a lot of PDF papers and reference materials. If I could throw them onto a 4 GB SD card and read them on something like this, I'd be ecstatic.

Re:Why do people still print?

[Critical Facilities]

Why do some people still do this?

Uh...because you can't have people sign contracts that are being projected on a screen. Well, you could, but I don't know if you'd want to.

Re:Why do people still print?

[N Monkey]

In my opinion, and printer is about as valuable in a modern office as horse stalls are in a modern firehouse.

Why do I still print?

Because when I have 3 or more documents I'm reading to review etc, it's more convenient to be able to

a) flick between the pages of different documents

b) underline/highlight/ make notes in the margins

c) carry them with me/ dump them on a couch/chair while reading.

d) I often need the computer screen to write a review document.

My PC screen's resolution isn't up to the job of having multiple documents open side-by-side (and the laptop's is even worse). Furthermore,the interface to Acrobat/Word/anything for that matter, is pathetically slow. A mouse and keyboard are no substitute for human hands on paper combined with a simple pen.

Maybe when we have desks that are touch sensitive LCDs with 10k*10k resolution, things may change.

Re:Why do people still print?

[Suzuran]

So, basically, something like an iPhone, but bigger and without the phone?

Re:Why do people still print?

[cryfreedomlove]

while you wait, you kill trees and endanger your co-workers. Why is that OK?

Re:Why do people still print?

[jaxle]

I work in the engineering department for a small city. We print stuff all the time because looking at a 24x36in site plan is no fun on a computer screen. You also can't comment and edit with complete freedom while viewing on the computer screen.

Re:Why do people still print?

[Anonymous Coward]

You're living in office fantasy world, where the office work itself has supplanted the company's actual source of profitability. In the Real World, companies interact financially and need hardcopy evidence of those interactions.

Re:Why do people still print?

[danomac]

d) I often need the computer screen to write a review document.

You should try using a multi-screen setup if you do this often. Works wonders, and wastes a heck of a lot less paper. Since I've started using my dual screen setup at work, my requirements to print have dropped to virtually none - I might print 50 pages a year... before was much, much more.

Re:Why do people still print?

[kobaz]

I read an article not too long ago where the conclusion was that printer and paper usage has gone up along with email and im usage. People tend to print out their two line emails.

I just don't get it. If I send my boss a two page software design spec, the first thing he does is print it out, read it at his desk, and email me back any changes that are needed.

Re:Why do people still print?

[AncientPC]

Seconded, there's a significant decrease in productivity switching between windows when I'm on my laptop (1920x1200) compared to my desktop (2 monitors of 1600x1200).

I'm not sure if there's much of a productivity increase going from two monitors to three monitors, but it's noticeable going from one to two.

Re:Why do people still print?

[hawkfish]

Maybe when we have desks that are touch sensitive LCDs with 10k*10k resolution, things may change.

You mean like this?

Re:Why do people still print?

[frdmfghtr]

I work in an office where there are nice projectors in every conference room and everyone has a lap top. Still, there are a few dinosaurs that bring stacks of printed slides for everyone in a meetingif they are presenting. Why do some people still do this?

There are plenty of reasons why paper is still useful, and in some cases easier to use than a full paperless solution.

(1) Paper doesn't have parts that can fail
(2) Paper doesn't require a cable
(3) Paper doesn't spontaneously crash
(4) You can draw on paper faster than you can on a notebook PC (although tablet PCs are handy in this regard however)
(5) Paper doesn't care if a Mac or PC running PowerPoint or NeoOffice or OpenOffice or Keynote, etc. was used to make the presentation
(6) Paper can't get accidentally corrupted by a power surge or some other file error

Re:Why do people still print?

[chihowa]

I've grown fairly productive with the use of three monitors, one of which is rotated to portrait mode. I can read a paper on the portrait display (with the whole page displayed at once), write on the second and be constantly distracted by Slashdot on the third. My productivity has never been better!

Re:Why do people still print?

[cpotoso]

You know that a) producing, and b) operating a monitor do have an environmental impact too?

Re:Why do people still print?

[dawnzer]

Ahhh... the look of fear on a CADD tech's face as you hand over a well bloodied set of redlines. I do find 30" x 42" sheets a pain to work with though. They don't quite fit on my desk neatly.

Re:Why do people still print?

[RobertLTux]

yes i like to have all of my multiyear mega million dollar contracts signed in BLOOD (try to dispute a guys DNA).

its US$129 for a basic sig pad

Re:Why do people still print?

[danomac]

You know that a) producing, and b) operating a monitor do have an environmental impact too?

Sure, but monitors don't clutter my desk like paper does. :P

PC Load Letter....

[Njoyda Sauce]

Time to get the bats out again.

Re:PC Load Letter....

[rubberbandball]

We can't stop here... this is bat country!

Inkjet printers do not have this problem...

[Anonymous Coward]

...only laser printers shed toner powder into the air.

Re:Inkjet printers do not have this problem...

[Klaidas]

I believe this might be because they DON'T use toner? [/sarcasm]
No, really, thanks capt. Obvious.

Re:Inkjet printers do not have this problem...

[ajs318]

Pity, really. If they did, you could double the value of your clothes by standing next to one!

Re:Inkjet printers do not have this problem...

[trolltalk.com]

"only laser printers shed toner powder into the air."

... you forgot fax machines and photocopiers ...

Also, ink jet printers emit solvents - that's why they dry out, and also how they print. If the solvent in the ink didn't evaporate, your injet prints would stay wet, and smear.

Of course, even booze can be harmful to your health if you're a dickhead.

Am I safe?

[Shadow Wrought]

Do I have to worry about the toner particles when I open up my e-mails? Or is it only a problem if I open the attachment?

Re:Am I safe?

[KoldKompress]

Why is this modded offtopic? I thought it was pretty funny.

Re:Am I safe?

[MiniMike]

No, most of the particles fall out in the tubes on the way to your computer.

But you do have to be very careful when unplugging any cables from your router...

Re:Am I safe?

[Shadow Wrought]

No, most of the particles fall out in the tubes on the way to your computer.

So that's how the FBI and IRS track you...

As a PHB, this concerns me

[LiquidCoooled]

As the major PHB in my firm, I have sent a memo urging the recall of all our original dot matrix printers.

Does anyone know where I can obtain perforated fanfold paper from anymore?

Re:As a PHB, this concerns me

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.pospaper.com/fanfoldcomputerpaper.html

Re:As a PHB, this concerns me

[InvalidError]

I have a box here with about 3000 sheets left...

BTW, I vaguely remember reading similar health warnings about matrix printers related to ink/ink-ribbon/paper dust generated by the pin impacts in high-speed departmental monsters from the 80's.

Inorganic fine particulates have been a health hazard for as long as we have known of their existence... that toner got five minutes of shame for being such a material today is not much of a surprise.

Re:As a PHB, this concerns me

[Corporate Troll]

Ask, and Ye Shall Receive...

Re:As a PHB, this concerns me

[Hatta]

We still have a dot matrix hooked up to our scintillation counter. And damn it if it doesn't print right over the seam every time. Still it's a nice bit of nostalgia to have around, I do love that sound.

Re:As a PHB, this concerns me

[Ritchie70]

You can still buy it at most any office supply store.
Or Sam's club.

Re:As a PHB, this concerns me

[Lehk228]

dot matrix printers are still VERY common ins business and industry. they have low cost per page, much lower standby and running power consumption/heat production than laser, and quick start up like inkjet.

also once you get the god damned thing lined up an entire box becomes your paper cassette. convenient when you are going through hundreds or even thousands of sheets of paper in an afternoon.

No worries - they still have a perfect scapegoat

[Penguinisto]

Smog (you should see a typical Chinese city nowadays - it's downright chewable), Toxic fumes from nearly every type of mechanical combustion and any outdoor process that stirs up dust, now this... and yet the news is still soaked with how 'those eeevil smokers' are out to kill us all with their eeevil second-hand smoke.

Will this study form a new scapegoat? Nah. It's easier to simply blame people who partake of a particular vice, especially since it's politically correct to hate anyone who participates in it.

On a less grouchy rantish side, where are the toner particulate measurements taken on average, anyway? The nearest printers in my office are 20 meters away...

/P

Ozone and Toner

[David Off]

I thought the EU and national governments had already issued health guidance for laser printers in Europe because they are known to emit dangerous levels of Ozone and other chemicals. As I recall printers had to be a certain number of meters away from the nearest desk and in a well ventilated office. Here is some existing information I found by googling:-

http://www.lhc.org.uk/members/pubs/factsht/76fact. pdf

http://www.safety.ed.ac.uk/resources/General/print ers.shtm

Certainly under United Kingdom health and safety legislation employers should not locate printers next to employee workstations. Although most IT workplaces I've worked in seem to flout these regulations to some extent - particuarly wrt to printer location, cabling and fire safety.

Re:Ozone and Toner

[Ravenscall]

At least here in the US part of the issue is the users as well. I cannot count the number of times a printer was down and I had users grumbling that they had to walk 20 yards as opposed to 5 to get thier printouts. It is not as simple as employee morale being inversely related to distance from printers, but the way they complain you would think it is.

Probably says something about why we have an obesity epidemic to boot.

Re:Ozone and Toner

[Anonymous Coward]

Most modern lazer printers don't emit near the levels of Ozone that older models did. Some don't put out Ozone at all.

Just a comment. No, I'm not logging in from work to use my real account.

Re:Ozone and Toner

[David Off]

have you any sources for this? If I had mod points I would mod this as interesting, or informative, or something.

Re:Ozone and Toner

[vought]

Most modern lazer printers don't emit near the levels of Ozone that older models did. Some don't put out Ozone at all.


That may be the case, but at the last giantcorp(TM) I worked at, there were scads of LaserJet 4 and 5s with depleted ozone filters chugging away a ream at a time to make sure some PHB had a printed set of PowerPoint slides for people to ignore along with the crap on screen.

There are still a lot of old 1990-95-ish Fuji-Xerox engines out there, too - and I can guarantee those things are virtual smog generators.

Nice to have something to point to

[Tridus]

At a previous job, my desk was next to two printers. I kept feeling sick, and blamed it on the printers, but its not always easy to convince management of that without some kind of study to point to.

(They did listen, once I started using sick days.)

Is it really that bad?

[Cedric Tsui]

How do these dangerous particles compare to those of say... a single lit candle?

The human body has a way of defending itself against all sorts of nasty stuff. Generally, things aren't bad for you unless you're exposed in excess. Apples contain cyanide, potatoes contain solanine, and cars emit carbon monoxide. Let's avoid all of them!

Re:Is it really that bad?

[KoldKompress]

It's all to do with dosage. You'd need to eat a couple of kilograms of green potatoes to get enough solanine to kill you. If you're next to a few printers every day that are shooting out toner dust into your lungs, it could clog it up similar to Asbestos - or is that not really that bad either?

Re:Is it really that bad?

[aadvancedGIR]

So if I understand your logic, since apples contain cyanide and do not seem to be dangerous, it's OK to expose yourself to some more cyanide for no particular reason.
The idea with laser printers is not to ban their use, but simply to put them in dedicated places where no worker spends over 2000 hours every year.

Re:Is it really that bad?

[KokorHekkus]

The human body has a way of defending itself against all sorts of nasty stuff. Generally, things aren't bad for you unless you're exposed in excess. Apples contain cyanide, potatoes contain solanine, and cars emit carbon monoxide. Let's avoid all of them!

Yes, the body has a way of defending itself against all sorts of nasty stuff that have been naturally occuring in our habitat during evolution. Humans have no defense against sub 10 micrometer particles and they can get straight down to the pulmonary alveoli.

EPA information about particle pollution can be found at http://airnow.gov/index.cfm?action=particle.cover

Re:Is it really that bad?

[Cedric Tsui]

Oops. Sorry. I wasn't clear.

I was trying to say that somethings are harmful in excess but are harmless in small amounts (like the potatoes).
I am skeptical that printers exceed this threshold despite the scientists' claim. I would be interested to see the particulate levels of these printers as compared to those of candles, oil lanterns and the like.

For one, it is clear that the particulate levels from printers do not come close to those of cigarette smoke as you can see the latter and not the former in the air.

Re:Is it really that bad?

[zippthorne]

Asbestos wasn't really that bad.. to have around. But to work with it was pretty dangerous. In fact, just about the worst thing you can do is remove it. Which is what made the whole rush to remove all the asbestos everything so absurd: It was a non-problem unless you went mucking around tearing things up. The sensible thing to do would be to require the special protection or teams to remove it before demolishing the building, and just stop installing it in new buildings.

So Asbestos isn't really a very good analogy at all: The thing that puts asbestos in the air is the deliberate and unusual act of removing it. The thing that puts toner in the air is the regular operation of a poorly designed printer.

Re:Is it really that bad?

[KoldKompress]

Ahh, thanks for that. Here in the UK especially, Asbestos is mandated to be removed if it's found, so a lot of media displayed it as the kind of stuff only Satan would willingly put in his house.

But thanks for the informative post.

I always knew I...

[MeditationSensation]

...smelled something funny in the air around LASER printers. So if I owned a LASER printer, can I collect as part of a fat class action lawsuit? :-)

Re:I always knew I...

[quanticle]

The funny smell is probably ozone generated by the high-voltage element inside the printer. Its the same smell that surrounds CRT monitors.

AFAIK, the toner particles in question are too small to be smelled.

don't forget the effect on your blood pressure

[clem]

"PC Load Letter"? What the fuck does that mean?

Re:don't forget the effect on your blood pressure

[danbert8]

It means to load more letter sized paper.

Re:don't forget the effect on your blood pressure

[Anonymous Coward]

Woosh!

http://uk.imdb.com/title/tt0151804/quotes

Re:don't forget the effect on your blood pressure

[ajs318]

Quick answer: It means someone is using a pirate copy of Microsoft Office.

Long answer: It's an abbreviation for "Paper Cassette: load US Letter (216x279) size paper". Only one country in the world actually uses this size paper; everybody else uses normal A4 paper (210x297). Microsoft Office has its own independent paper size and measuring unit settings, which are unaffected by the similar settings in Windows Control Panel. Pirate copies of Microsoft Office invariably are made from originals which were intended for sale in the USA, so will use US Letter paper and measurements in inches.

If you use a genuine copy of Office intended for sale in (and therefore localised to) your country, it will default to A4 and centimetres.

Re:don't forget the effect on your blood pressure

[Anonymous Coward]

Canada uses the letter/legal/etc. system too.

Re:don't forget the effect on your blood pressure

[bhtooefr]

Unless, of course, you know, you're IN the US. ;)

I've gotten "PC LOAD A4" before in the US... when I had stuff set for Letter! (Ubuntu takes a few tries to get it to respect Letter settings.)

British Health Warnings

[locokamil]

I'll be honest: whenever I hear about a new health risk coming from the British press, I just tune it out and start thinking of how they banned wifi in schools to protect young sebastion.

Re:British Health Warnings

[Ravenscall]

We're only making plans for Nigel.

Re:British Health Warnings

[pev]

Nice attitude. Oddly enough our American cousins were similarly bullish in 1982 when car seatbelts became compulsory in the UK. This is estimated to save around 2000 lives a year (we have 64Million-ish population for those not in the know).

Then again this is exactly what evolution is all about and I'm all for Darwin's finest theory. If you want to breathe in toner, not wear a seatbelt or ride a motorcycle without a helmet etc Go For It.

~Pev

Re:British Health Warnings

[Archtech]

Actually, it was originally the Australian media, reporting the findings of Professor Lidia Morawska from the Queensland University of Technology and her colleagues.

Which ones?

[lancelotlink]

Anyone know if there is a list of printers they found to be ultra nasty? I did read the article and didn't find anything. It would be nice to know if I'm still getting hosed after quitting smoking. Makes me feel like what's going to happen to us after Bush leaves office.

Re:Which ones?

[CranberryKing]

It would be nice if they posting a listing or link to the study. I mean they did the research and then issue a general statement without all that useful specific data.. Oh, why do I have a feeling LaserJet 1320nw is at the top of the list?

SEGWAY: This printer is perfect in the tradition of LaserJet 13xx printers, plus it has wireless JetDirect integrated. However.. This model ships with a huge known flaw. The front loader/envelope feed does not work at all. HP knows about this and never issued a recall (still sells them). I asked if there would be a firmware update or some kind of fix and they said, "that's possible" in 2005 when I bought it. I was so upset because aside from calculators I feel like the LaserJet 13xx & JetDirect were the gold standard for those categories. But with the growth of HP they have clearly lost their ability to do basic testing on their most important products. Ah, the sun has set on the days of real quality 'american' products. END_OF_SEGWAY

I am very skeptical of this...

[gurps_npc]

1. It is exactly the kind of scare tactic news stories that papers spread when EVERY scientist in the world disagrees with them. 2. It is being reported by the BBC, but Australian scientists made the claim. Could the Australians not find a SINGLE Australian paper that thought they were believeable as well as sensational?

Re:I am very skeptical of this...

[Cedric Tsui]

Same story from Australian paper.

Dude. 30 seconds on Google.

Re:I am very skeptical of this...

[HikingStick]

I'm also skeptical of the validity of the test: levels of particulate were higher during the workday. Duh! People are walking around and moving things during the day. You could have had a toner spill somewhere, the night cleaning crew vacuums it up, effectively distributing the micro-particles everywhere. Then, during the daytime, as people are milling about, they kick up the residue, which includes toner.

Re:I am very skeptical of this...

[gurps_npc]

I did check after I posted

But NO, it is NOT the same story.

The Australian paper has MUCH more information, most of which is VERY important. Things like the fact that a single pritner was at worst, as bad as a single ciggarette. Things like the fact that they admitted no knoweldge of whether the particles were bad for you. Things like most (more than 1/2) of the printers they checked did not emit any particles.

Well then

[LordBafford]

I think those fellows at Initech had it right http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkFkDEEQEgA

Printer rooms

[athloi]

This was one of the reasons older offices had printer rooms. Smell, noise, dust and printing mistakes stayed out of sight. I wish more people did this now, because these printers while greatly improved are still smelly, noisy, dusty, greasy and prone to spit out bad jokes, spam, misplaced personal data and "best of" Slashdot trolls, at least in this office.

Re:Printer rooms

[slazzy]

I have my laser printer right beside my desk, I've been noticing for awhile now that I start sneezing whenever I print a page.. must be all the particulates that come from the toner. I don't print much, so I think the solution will be for me to move it too the other end of my office and network it.

Administration response

[Anonymous Coward]

In his State of the Union address Bush responded:

"Very credible sources indicate that Al Qaeda operatives inside Iraq have been manufacturing most of these printers as a means to undermine our freedom. We have it on very good authority that Iran has been supplying biochemical assistance to these operatives. Our military commanders are confident that if we just continue our surge with a few thousand more soldiers in Iraq we will have victory in our war on terror and provide everlasting stabilization to the Middle East. With every page that we print let us recall the extremes to which the Axis of Evil will go to eliminate everything that we stand for."

solution

[fermion]

So should we all move towards solid ink. Less consumables, no getting dirty refilling toner cartridges. No toner cartridges to throw away, although there is one major consumable every 7-10K pages. I guess if a toner is refilled at least three times it is about the same.

Re:solution

[Macgrrl]

Phaser printing (named because the ink changes phase - also known as dye sublimation printing) is good for presentation graphics with strong saturated colours. Not so good for subtle tones or documents like training manuals where you want people to write on the document. Colour lasers which rely on fuser oil have the same issue with writing over the printing as the surface of the page is slick.

"Black lung" for the office set?

[Anonymous Coward]

Someone call Scott Adams because I smell one excellent Dilbert series ahead. Just picture Wally crawling on the carpet, barely moving, pager in one hand and singing "Sixteen tons and what do you get ..." =)

Re:"Black lung" for the office set?

[funkatron]

The only way a dilbert could ever be excellent would be if he suicided.

I used to sit next to a printer

[ianpm]

And I thought at the time, this can't be especially good for my health.

Should I start the litigation now?

Excellent

[hcdejong]

One more reason to park the printer in a separate room behind a closed door. We used to have a printer in our (open-plan) office. The noise and the smell drove me crazy. I managed get the printer banished eventually. I still can't believe what people will subject themselves to, to save having to get up and walk 10m to get their printouts. When you're sitting in an office for 8h/day, any excuse to get up and stretch your legs should be welcome.

Good try, but...

[NeuroManson]

Try looking at the big picture. Laser printers, except for the controller circuitry and print interface, use the exact same technology of common Xerographic copy machines (first invented around 1938, almost 70 years ago). Of which Xerographic copiers have been in use over 2 times as long as laser printers (invented in 1971 by Xerox). So why is this now suddenly such a big deal?

First they blamed the cars, then smokers, then power plants, then trucks, now laser printers? Why don't we just throw up our hands and walk around with oxygen tanks and masks.

Re:Good try, but...

[Anonymous Coward]

First they blamed the cars, then smokers, then power plants, then trucks, now laser printers? Why don't we just throw up our hands and walk around with oxygen tanks and masks.

Seriously! This obsession with health and living long, comfortable lives is getting out of control! We need to stop identifying possible sources of pollution and just accept that we will die preventable deaths!

...or.... we could identify the biggest health risks, work to mitigate them, and then move on to the next level of health risks and see if there is any way to mitigate them, too. No one is arguing for a total ban on printers--but if they have a health impact that can be measured and reduced, why not do it?

Re:Good try, but...

[aadvancedGIR]

"So why is this now suddenly such a big deal?"

Let's see... because, on 9/11 alone, more people died prematurely of cancer than of terrorism. Office pollution is the most dangerous thing around, but it is something that can be easily corrected (of course, if walking 5m to get a printout is a problem to you, odds are you already have a short life expectancy).

"Why don't we just throw up our hands and walk around with oxygen tanks and masks?"

Because, 1- in excess, O2 is toxic and 2- large scale bottled O2 production is rather expensive and polluting (the power requirement alone is huge).

Re:Good try, but...

[nasch]

Try looking at the big picture. Laser printers, except for the controller circuitry and print interface, use the exact same technology of common Xerographic copy machines (first invented around 1938, almost 70 years ago). Other than the control parts and the printing parts they're exactly the same? So in other words they're completely different? Or are you saying they use the same kind of toner? Even if that's true, it doesn't imply they pose the same health hazard, if everything else about them is different.

Re:Good try, but...

[ajs318]

Actually, the printing mechanism is almost the same. The big difference is how the image gets onto the drum. In a photocopier, light is reflected from the white parts of the paper onto the negatively-charged drum, where it displaces electrons; in a laser printer, a laser beam is used to remove charge selectively. In a photocopier, the toner is uncharged and sticks to the negatively-charged portions of the drum where light did not hit (corresponding to the black parts of the paper). In a laser printer, the toner is negatively-charged and sticks to the uncharged portions of the drum where the light did hit. The image is then transferred from the drum to the paper, and the paper passes a heating element (called the fuser) which melts the toner so it sticks to the paper. (If this isn't working, or in the course of resolving a jam a page is pulled out before being fused, a large amount of toner dust can be released. You have to wash it off with cold water. Hot water is hot enough to fuse it to your skin and clothes.)

About the only thing that has really changed over the years is the realisation that the drum does not have to hold a full page to print in a single turn. This has created portable machines.

Re:Good try, but...

[couchslug]

"Why don't we just throw up our hands and walk around with oxygen tanks and masks."

Fear of toxic oxygen mask plastic outgassing/oxidation products? :-P

Re:Good try, but...

[NeuroManson]

More like it's this running around waving our arms about the next bugaboo of the day that's going to kill us, that WILL kill us. More people die of high blood pressure and other stress related diseases than a whiff of dust, pollen or cigarette smoke. Telling people to live in constant fear of everyday appliances is going to have exactly that effect.

Re:Good try, but...

[Lehk228]

Office pollution is the most dangerous thing around,

bull fucking shit

Re:Good try, but...

[Macgrrl]

Actually, many Xerox printers now use EA Toner whcih is grown chemically, rather than the old style toner which is made by crushing carbon based subatances to dust.

What about walking?

[Gazzonyx]

Conducted in an open-plan office, the test revealed that particle levels increased five-fold during working hours, a rise blamed on printer use. I'm just throwing out the idea that many people walking around on the carpet during office hours may be kicking up toner dust that has settled in the carpet. You'd be amazed how much crap is kicked up from a carpet with just a few people walking on it. For those of us with wood floors, how long after you mop or clean the floor until you see dust starting to collect? For me, it's a week or so. Imagine all that being churned by people walking on it all day.

Re:What about walking?

[Raineer]

You'd be amazed how much crap is kicked up from a carpet with just a few people walking on it. For those of us with wood floors, how long after you mop or clean the floor until you see dust starting to collect? For me, it's a week or so. Imagine all that being churned by people walking on it all day.

I couldn't agree with this more. My offices are vacuumed about once a month, it's so disgusting.

What's even funnier is watching the cleaning crew come in and "dust off" the tall cabinets. This involves taking a feather duster and knocking it all off the tall cabinet onto my desk (and usually my coffee mug)

xerox copy room has thick air

[Anonymous Coward]

the photocopy machine room at work. the air is thick and warm and nasty in that room.
never thought about the particle aspect. if I wear a filter mask it will freak people out.
also, when young i had a full time job copying files for state attorney general. never thought
about particle aspect. i think it is a significant issue. i worked in one gov bldg that had mold in it, needed to be torn down. living under bushco sucks. people in gov management ignore things to the point of it being criminal. the just want the check especially where it comes to condition of bldgs. it confronts the we are #1 propaganda. buschco is criminal. need 9/11 truth. go to ae911 truth.org . licensed architects and engineers. the time is now for pressure on the crooks and the suffering they caused through their ritual sacrifice to manipulatively shock and awe the public before looting the gov money through unchecked private contracting.

Re:No worries - they still have a perfect scapegoa

[Anonymous Coward]

especially since it's politically correct to hate anyone who participates in it.

No, we hate people who participate in it because of their unbelievably rude practice of subjecting everybody else to their filthy reeking emissions. Stale smoke smells like fucking shit.

Since so few smokers through the years have taken it upon themselves to do the civilized thing and ensure that nobody around them has to experience their vile backwashed fumes, the victims are banding together to help the smokers learn what should have been common courtesy.

Way to go Beeb...

[Darth_brooks]

Funny how an article on the dangers of toner in the air is using a picture of an HP inkjet printer.

Bad Science

[giafly]

the test revealed that particle levels [in the air] increased five-fold during working hours, a rise blamed on printer use.

Alternatively, there are more airborne particles by day because:

• by night, the office is empty, and the little particles land on furniture and carpets.
• by day, the office is full of people, who move about and launch them back into the air.

Re:Bad Science

[ianpm]

I refuse to accept that the BBC would ever engage in bad science. Don't forget, they are the ones who put us onto the dangers of WiFi and more recently, kids fighting on YouTube.

Re:Bad Science

[aadvancedGIR]

So what, because toxic particules can land on furnitures and the become airbone again before being breathed, it makes them less toxic?

Re:Bad Science

[Tony Hoyle]

Both are quite valid investigations. RF emmissions are something to be investigated - There's a reason why it's illegal to give a child under 13 a mobile phone. As far as the youtube thing goes they're 100% correct - google should be taking responsibility and preemptively shutting these things down. If it doesn't it may find itself on the wrong end of a lawsuit.

Re:Bad Science

[ianpm]

I'm not disputing the validity of the investigation, I'm questioning the methods they use.

For example, walking round saying "There's radiation here" when there is radiation of some kind pretty much everywhere isn't a proper investigation.

As for YouTube, I think it depends on your outlook. You don't have to look too far to find a whole bunch of illegal activity online. That doesn't mean we should have people policing the internet shutting sites down, or lobbying against them. What YouTube needs to do is provide information to the police that can help catch the uploaders, and thus get to the souce of the crime. Also, victims should be encouraged to report such crimes to the police, who should be taking them seriously.

If you try to police the net, you'll end up seriously short of time, and in a really bad mood.

Re:Bad Science

[bir0]

Call me naive... but you usually get 'Bad Science' published in peer review journals.
The research is published in:

He, Congrong and Morawska, Lidia and Taplin, Len (2007) Particle emission characteristics of office printers. Environmental Science and Technology.

probably not out for free download yet though.

You can read the abstract here if you like.

Re:Bad Science

[bir0]

How stupid do I feel... I meant to say.. You DONT usually get 'bad science' published in a peer reviewed journal. ...sucks to be me. :-S

That fresh printer smell

[techiemikey]

Well, this explains why i always like that "fresh printer smell" after printing out a document at work. I always thought it was just the sense of accomplishment, but apparently it's just yet another thing bad for me. Figures...first the McDonalds...now the printers.

Re:That fresh printer smell

[Raineer]

For the record, that "fresh printer smell" is Ozone generated by the high-voltage corona wires charging the drum (and the air). Toner is just a really dry feeling in your nose.

I agree with the moderation, though...funny :)

Pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis!

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not just for miners anymore.

MICR Toner is carcinogenic

[Centurix]

I've had to deal a fair bit with lasers which print financial stubs at the bottom of a page with the magnetic MICR toner. That stuff is certified carcinogenic, with lots of warnings on the box to handle with special gloves and wear a mask while changing toner over. Nasty stuff.

Re:MICR Toner is carcinogenic

[Raineer]

You must be dealing with a really wacky brand of MICR toner, as this isn't true for the vast majority of applications. I work directly with the engineers that have to certify and chemically test ever piece that goes into our machines, and MICR gets no special exception compared to anything else.

Not that I wouldn't recommend everyone wear masks when dealing with any particulate. Breathing in anything but what the body expects is "bad", period.

Re:MICR Toner is carcinogenic

[Centurix]

We've had quite a few different brands including the manufacturers all with the same label (Lexmark even included masks and gloves in the toner box), mind you, Australian standards for particulates and OH&S standards are pretty strict so it's probably a requirement for toners with high iron content to be labelled as dangerous here.

Print job

[kc2keo]

I'll be printing the Gentoo handbook out now... har har.

Obligatory Comment

[Anonymous Coward]

One thing is for certain: there is no stopping them. I, for one, welcome our new printer overlords.

Re:No worries - they still have a perfect scapegoa

[Marty_Krapturd]

*** HOW ABOUT? ***

No, we hate people who participate in it because of their unbelievably rude practice of subjecting everybody else to their filthy reeking emissions. Car exhaust smells like fucking shit.

Since so few drivers through the years have taken it upon themselves to do the civilized thing and ensure that nobody around them has to experience their vile backwashed fumes, the victims are banding together to help the drivers learn what should have been common courtesy.

*** OR ***

No, we hate people who participate in it because of their unbelievably rude practice of subjecting everybody else to their filthy reeking emissions. The average bean fart smells like fucking shit.

Since so few bean eaters through the years have taken it upon themselves to do the civilized thing and ensure that nobody around them has to experience their vile backwashed fumes, the victims are banding together to help the bean eaters learn what should have been common courtesy.

*** OR EVEN ***

No, we hate people who participate in it because of their unbelievably rude practice of subjecting everybody else to their filthy reeking emissions. Shit smells like fucking shit.

Since so few defecators through the years have taken it upon themselves to do the civilized thing and ensure that nobody around them has to experience their vile backwashed fumes, the victims are banding together to help the defedators learn what should have been common courtesy.

*** DISCLAIMER: I'm a reformed tobacco smoker. Used to smoke 2 packs a day for about 10 years. Quit cold turkey. It wasn't the idea of 5 fewer years in my life, but 5 years of slow gurgling death that convinced me.

Unlikely

[tomkost]

I used to repair copiers and printers for a living. I would come home and have to blow my nose to get all the toner out. Never noticed any ill effects. I'm sure there are some people who might be allergic, but not many. Toner is mixture of polyester, carbon, and wax, none of which is known to be very harmful. Check the MSDS. http://www.lanier.com/page.php/toner%20msds. Perhaps the color toner is worse, they did not have that in my day.

Probably just another alarmist story from the UK...

Diesel particulates and "White Noise"

[R2.0]

I'm reminded of the recent regulations concerning diesel emissions, specifically particulate emissions. The propriety of the regulations aside, one of the most striking things to me was that the basis of the regulations was not that diesel particulates make people sick per se, but that they exacerbate [sp?] preexisting asthma and other lung conditions, and that statistically this would cause x amount of "premature" deaths.

In other words, we will probably never be able to identify an individual who died, or was even made sick, by diesel particulates. But over a span of time, various individuals, already sick, died earlier than they otherwise would have.

In the book "White Noise", by Don DeLillo, the protagonist is exposed to some agent that has a very small probability of decreasing his lifespan by a very short length of time - iirc, it was a 1 in 100,000 chance of decreasing his lifespan by 1 year. This had lief changing consequences for him - not the exposure, but the knowledge of the exposure.

I read the book in as part of a curriculum on Science, Technology, and Society, and it made very good points about risk and perception of risk. I just never really thought that I would see it acted out in real life as part of national policy.

Re:Diesel particulates and "White Noise"

[SatanicPuppy]

That's true of a lot of things. Coal fired power plants produce a certain amount of mercury. The mercury precipitates and ends up in the water, and is concentrated by fish through bioaccumulation. People eat the fish, and mostly nothing happens. Your cancer risk goes up. If you're pregnant your child has an increased risk of mental defects. You could miscarry.

But nothing that could be proven, really. Despite that, there are regulations about mercury emissions because we know it's a bad idea, even though there really isn't any way to establish a causal chain below certain concentrations.

The same goes for particulates. They're not good for anyone, and they're pretty bad for a decent sized subset of the population. So why not increase the standard? I don't have asthma, but I don't like breathing that crap either.

IBM Infoprint 4000 and other large printers

[Anonymous Coward]

If the article was talking about large, 24/7 printers (such as old IBM Infoprint 4000's) I would believe it. These printers do not take cartridges, you add toner from a bottle into the machine while it's still running, and that stuff can kick out some nasty clouds if the bottle isn't put on right.

As it is I believe the article is bunk. Anything that uses a cartridge is much safer than fine toner you have to pour into a printer.

Re:No worries - they still have a perfect scapegoa

[Anonymous Coward]

Car exhaust smells like fucking shit.

Not anymore it doesn't. We made drivers pay for expensive emissions control systems to clean up the stink.

bean eaters learn what should have been common courtesy.

Most people who fart do have the common courtesy to leave, or at least apologize if it was involuntary. Some hide their transgressions in anonymity, but smokers can't really get away with that.

defecators learn what should have been common courtesy.

That's why we have dedicated bathrooms, usually with exhaust fans. Smokers generally couldn't be bothered to even do that.

Coming Soon!

[NIN1385]

New Asbestos Toner, for the person that doesn't already have enough health problems!

FUD

[boyfaceddog]

I love this part;
"ultra-tiny particles of toner-like material"

I don't know which is more obnoxious - the non-measurement-measument (ultra-tiny is not a size) or the mis-statement of hazards. The material is either toner or it isn't. If the material is toner, say it is toner. If the material isn't toner, tell me waht it is. There is no "toner like material" in a toner-based printer other than the toner itself.

Printer Emissions are Tested!

[PhloppyPhallus]

I used to work in the research labs of a major printer/copier manufacturer. We did extensive testing of chemical emissions for all laser/toner based products, from desk top models to huge production printers. Tests were done in a variety of formats, but in general the machine was placed in a well sealed room and allowed to operate for hours. Usually there would be a specified air change rate, say the volume of the room every six hours, but sometime the concentration was allowed to build in a room with no air change. Every few minutes throughout the test an air sample was collected from a special chamber on the test room wall. The air sample would be run through optical, chemical and mass spectrometry testing to determine the chemical composition - we looked specifically for about 20 different chemicals which were known to be emitted in quantity, were regulated, or were likely to be regulated because they posed a known health risk. All laser printers emit airborne chemicals - this is known and it is tested to make sure the chemical emission rates and the air concentrations in even the stuffiest of closets are well below any known safety limits. This isn't a new approach, either - I was once tasked with surveying the results of all air quality tests done on currently-in-use printers made by the company, and testing was performed up-to-standard for all machines developed since the mid-80s. Still, that said, you can always work to reduce the concentration of chemicals in the air by ensuring that you place you office copier in a well ventilated and open room. Air change rate and room size are the primary factors which determine the steady-state concentration of airborne chemicals.

Re:Printer Emissions are Tested!

[jafac]

But this would vary depending on the kind of paper you feed into the printer.

Some papers are manufactured with some pretty nasty chemicals. (Dioxins).

And in the cutting process, if a certain amount of dioxin-laden paper-dust is created, that is released into the air by the printer - that may not be shown in the manufacturer's test. (and indeed; would NOT be the manufacturer's fault. Not if *I* was on the jury!).

Re:No worries - they still have a perfect scapegoa

[Marty_Krapturd]

This is why I shouldn't try to make jokes.

Re:No worries - they still have a perfect scapegoa

[Penguinisto]

Stale smoke smells like fucking shit.

Same with perfume/cologne, vehicle emissions (as covered elsewhere, and yes it often stinks), campfires, barbecues (esp. if the guy is cooking seafood on it), certain restaurants, dog excrement (which many owners have no problems at all with leaving in situ), and a whole host of other activities which human activities manage to promulgate.

...your point?

Since so few smokers through the years have taken it upon themselves to do the civilized thing and ensure that nobody around them has to experience their vile backwashed fumes, the victims are banding together to help the smokers learn what should have been common courtesy.

Nice stereotype... 'they're eeevil! eeevil I tell you! we're just the victims here, fighting one last desperate stand against Joe Camel Vader!"

Umm, no, and here's why: Smoking is banned pretty much inside of any building that isn't someone's private house* (bars are still somewhat exempt, but those are getting axed as well). Mass transit has banned it long ago - buses, trains, taxis, airlines... Outdoors and in one's own private vehicle is pretty much the only places left where anyone can legally smoke at all nowadays, so unless you're breaking-and-entering, or willfully entering a bar where people are already smoking, you have precious little to complain about in that department (after all, they were there before you - so how is it rude on their part if you're the interloper?)

* Las Vegas excepted, of course - but that is slowly beginning to change as well.

/P

So everybody at Kinko's is dead.

[Ancient_Hacker]

There's a place I know.
Where Xerox copiers glow.
And ever dang millisec
another sheet gets flecked
Slathered with toner, the particulate kind
So in the air it should be easy to find
All kinds of glop, by the bucket and pail
for all bystanders to strongly inhale.

So everybody at Kinko's is dead.

So everybody at Kinko's is dead.

Re:A bunch of BS

[trolltalk.com]

"I've worked on officer copiers,printers, fax machines since 1981. I've probably breathed in more toner & dust than any of you EVER will. I don't have ANY health problems what so ever! Until 3 years ago, I had BAD hay fever, but the dust & toner NEVER affected me, other than the occasional sneeze, blow your nose and your handkerchief comes out a little black. You need to read the material safety data sheets on toner. IT IS NOT hazardous, unless you snort the damn stuff. More nanny state BS..."

Different people are affected differently. Its like drinking - some people can handle their booze, some can;t. Don't be such a dickhead.

[tt] "

toner _has_ to be electrostatic

[Anonymous Coward]

Dad developed IBM's toner drum in the '60s (an organic photoconductor vs Xerox's selenium). Toner has to be a fine enough particle to migrate readily by electrostatic forces, it's how the toner moves to the photoconductor drum and gets ironed onto the page. You can _bank_ on toner having a high charge potential, and that means it will stick like glue to any grounded surface...like your lungs. Those nifty ozone scrubbers are very effective with toner tho, for the same reasons.

My First Thought

[Bandman]

Nicotoner does *not* *want* *you* *to* *print*!!!

MOD PARENT UP

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not a troll. It's a serious concern that has rarely been mentioned by other posts (searching for the word cancer only brings up one other post)

    We are constantly being bombarded by all sorts of carcinogenic materials and energies introduced by human technology, without doing any research into their effects, and people wonder why cancer is so prevalent.

Re:No worries - they still have a perfect scapegoa

[Valdrax]

Toxic fumes from nearly every type of mechanical combustion and any outdoor process that stirs up dust, now this... and yet the news is still soaked with how 'those eeevil smokers' are out to kill us all with their eeevil second-hand smoke.

So basically your argument boils down to the teenager's "Well everybody else is doing it, so why can't I?"
Tch. Everybody thinking that way means that no one will do the right thing.

I get an office

[Anonymous Coward]

or I'm calling OSHA!

Re:No worries - they still have a perfect scapegoa

[Anonymous Coward]

Because you're not funny?

Re:No worries - they still have a perfect scapegoa

[Anonymous Coward]

more likely because neo-fascists have no sense of humour while they are shoving their opinions down other people's throats. If a restaurant owner wants to allow smoking in their establishment, that should be THEIR right. It should not be YOUR right to tell them how to run their business, because YOU don't like it. Why not outlaw all toner cartridges because SOME cartridges MAY be hazardous.

miner's lung

[Anonymous Coward]

You can get pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis in a similar method.

congrats, marketing sucker

[Anonymous Coward]

Congrats...Now that you have a hooka "pastime," you are statistically more likely to move on to cigarettes in your lifetime. Really, don't you realize that the "natural" tobacco in a hooka is promoted by the tobacco companies, and that it is one of their 'gateway' or 'threshold' products that they hope will soften you up to the idea of smoking and eventually lead you to being an addicted user?

As long as you realize this, it's okay. Your body, not mine. But everyone should be aware that they are being bombarded at all times by very orchestrated, very well-honed strategies for extracting money from them through addiction, whether that addiction be general consumerism or physical drugs.

Unfortunately, I just bought a 200 dollar dvd-R for the tv the other day, so I'm in the downward spiral myself.

Re:congrats, marketing sucker

[utopianfiat]

For fucksake you fearmonger, hookahs have been around since thousands of years before tobacco was discovered. consuming luxuries doesn't make me a consumerist- consuming luxuries in place of human emotion and interaction, and constantly assigning monetary values to pleasures makes you a consumerist. It's not impossible to make a profit without exploiting people, but you polarizers like to make everyone believe it does.

Re:No worries - they still have a perfect scapegoa

[Anonymous Coward]

No, he just wasn't funny. You're not either.

Re:No worries - they still have a perfect scapegoa

[Anonymous Coward]

You're still not funny.

Re:No worries - they still have a perfect scapegoa

[Jorophose]

Mod parent all the way up.

Smokers, have your cigarettes and die, but goddamn you all if you think you can walk around and poison us all.

The worst thing is coming out of a shopping centre, or a large store. Smokers everywhere right outside. What the fuck? How is that doing any good? I once saw someone doing that infront of a children's hospital! What the hell?! No one wants to smell your fumes!

Just like cell phones cause brain tumors

[xgr3gx]

Flourescent lights turn you pale too!

Coal Mining or Office Work?

[MyOhMyOhMy]

Well, this should get today's rural youth thinking twice before choosing the office careers in favor of coal mining. You can get black lung either way you go, and occasional mine collapse can't be much worse than dying in office as a result of a terrorist attack, a la 9/11. Don't forget, kids, you don't get fat from lugging coal all day!

Heavy metal

[RudeIota]

Heavy metal music and the heavy metals in toner pigments have a lot in common.

• Both are heavy
• Both can emit imagery of naked fantasy women
• ... Both result about 6000 deaths per year...

Re:Heavy metal

[Nazlfrag]

He shared with the journalists that according to the American National Education Association every year near 6,000 young Americans kill themselves under the influence of music like that.

While the rest kill themselves on a diet of Top 40, easy listening and country music. Help reduce suicide today, buy a child some heavy metal albums!

Re:No worries - they still have a perfect scapegoa

[Penguinisto]

So basically your argument boils down to the teenager's "Well everybody else is doing it, so why can't I?"

No - but I do find it funny that no matter what story about air quality comes out, it invariably gets compared to the same thing - smoking.

In spite of this, we have industry belching out (in spite of progress) far more particulates and pollutants, and the average daily freeway load of cars pouring out far more in the way of toxic gases.

...and yet it's some anonymous schmuck who lights up a cigarette that gets held up in effigy.

It's a proportional argument, IMHO.

/P

Old News (like, Disco-old)

[dwye]

The first company for which I worked had done a study on this (is connection with disk drives failing, determined to be because of the toner bits) well before I started. One of my first jobs was to move the experimental results off of DecTape and on to the more modern 8 inch floppies before the old machines went into storage. I though that EVERYONE knew to keep the laser printers well away from anyone or anything. What next? A warning not to inhale too deeply when siphoning gasoline?

Re:No worries - they still have a perfect scapegoa

[Anonymous Coward]

...yet the news is still soaked with how 'those eeevil smokers' are out to kill us all with their eeevil second-hand smoke.

Hey guess what? I am allergic to cigarette smoke. It doesn't bother me when someone does it in their own home, their own car, or in a hermetically sealed hamster ball.

But it does bother me when smokers smoke in restaurants, bars, clubs, and yes, sometimes outdoors (what, you think being outside makes the smoke magically disappear? No, often I have to walk through it to get into a building.).

It perplexes me that people like you can't wrap your head around the idea that your smoke doesn't just affect you. Your rights end where mine begin. My right not to have a headache (and not inhale poison) from your smoking is far more important that your desire to feed your addiction via burning tobacco.

If smokers really were considerate, civilized human beings, they'd chew tobacco to get their fix. Besides, gum cancer is easier to treat than lung cancer.

As far as your statement that there are other forms of pollution out there...so fucking what? That makes it OK to smoke? We should ignore smoking because there is something else out there? Fuck that noise.

Re:No worries - they still have a perfect scapegoa

[Anonymous Coward]

Umm, no, and here's why: Smoking is banned pretty much inside of any building that isn't someone's private house

You've just explained how society is successfully solving this problem. Now why were you complaining in the first place? Because you want to unsolve it?

Re:No worries - they still have a perfect scapegoa

[Anonymous Coward]

bean eaters learn what should have been common courtesy.

Most people who fart do have the common courtesy to leave, or at least apologize if it was involuntary. Some hide their transgressions in anonymity, but smokers can't really get away with that.

Of course, if you're as lucky as I was in my previous job, you'll be moved to your very own office.

Ah, Yest! Empower those bureacrats!

[WheelDweller]

Yeah, let's get behind a movement that allows the governments of the world to sneak into the house, just in case this 'threat' is real. I mean really, "SMOKING ONE CIGARETTE IS DEADLY" so let's use the assertion for global takeover. We must protect us from ourselves.

(Really: not one person has EVER died from a cigarette....or even 200, unless there was an allergy discovered. To view second hand smoke (1/100 the real thing) as deadly is wrong and meant to steal rights. Smokers smoke for DECADES before the danger appears. 1/1,000,000 the danger is so slight as to be meaningless.)

But, this is the way the anti-SUV movement began...more wasted time, more wasted hate. Look for the checkbox for this new fear at your local Democratic Party flyer...

Sigh...

the register killed this one....

[mevets]

http://www.theregister.com/2007/07/31/geek_health_ rollercoaster/

the photo in the article is an inkjet, not a laser

[Anonymous Coward]

the photo in the article is an inkjet, not a laser

Measurable harms?

[iamlucky13]

I'm a little curious how they ended up studying "laser printer emissions." Perhaps it was a specific finding of a larger workplace particle assessment? Regardless, the really important thing the article doesn't do is identify any harms. It mentions that the toner is "potentially" able to cause respiratory issues, and they're telling the Australian government they need to regulate this, but they don't say anything about what is a known harmful level or how what they found compared. They most certainly don't refer to any cases of health problems specifically attributed to office-level exposure of toner. Presumably the toner makers have to produce an MSDS on the material, so it's not like this information is impossible to find.

Is this worth regulating? I think a lot more information is in order before we start fretting about a product that has been in our offices for 20+ years. Or perhaps we better start regulating dihydrogen monoxide exposure in the break room, too.

"No employee shall be internally exposed to more than 10 liters of dihydrogen monoxide during an eight hour shift. Following internal exposure exceeding regulatory limits, cardio-pulmonary resuscitation is to be administered..."

YEAH! AND IN MY PANTS....

[HamsterRabies]

Whenever we have a work-lunch and we order from the mexican joint down the street,
I notice an uptick in the total particulates in the air...

We've banned all mexican foods and chili's in our office due to the sum total of particles in the air.

In fact we've been diligent about this, and have known for some time about all things toxic in the workplace-

We've banned clothing, food, cubes, computers, phones, cellphones, and even fluorescent lights.
Now we all work in the dark naked shouting out random obscenity laden facts and have resorted to communicating with our clients, partners and business colleagues by carrier pidgeon.

And now some jerk-off in HR from California just told us that pidgeon stool is full of toxic particles....I hate my life...

Re:No worries - they still have a perfect scapegoa

[Penguinisto]

You've just explained how society is successfully solving this problem. Now why were you complaining in the first place? Because you want to unsolve it?

Insofar as personal property, yes. Bars, privately-owned business, and any other private property should not have to suffer under government-enforced morals.

IOW, it wasn't "society" "solving" the "problem", it was a classic "for the children" style of argument taken in extremis because they've finally found a minority to harass and whip up hatred against, w/o fear of backlash or repercussion.

/P

FUD, indeed.

[adolf]

Some printers and copiers use a consumable developer, as well as toner. It can be packaged seperately, or togetherly along with the toner in a disposable cartridge, as was the case with the fleet of Sharp printers we used to use at work.

I'd like to further submit that such developer product quite plainly consists of "ultra-tiny particles of toner-like material."

FWIW, HTH, HAND, etc.

Re:FUD, indeed.

[boyfaceddog]

Yes, but the article does not mention developer. I work at a printing company chock full of nasty Xerox DocuTechs. I am aware of developer. The author is not or he might have said that developer is the problem. If developer is the problem then TONER IS SAFE. If developer is not the problem then TONER IS NOT SAFE. This makes a world of difference.

The article is amazingly unclear about the exact nature of the hazard. I foresee a printer hazard dector able to sniff "ultra tiny particles" of "toner-like" material popping up around offices soon. Something must be done. Think of the children.

FUD

Re:Ah, Yest! Empower those bureacrats!

[Anonymous Coward]

Hi.

You're a smoker, I assume yes?

Me? I don't smoke. I have a sister who does. She lives in the same house.

She's nice enough to smoke outside so what the fuck do I care? Well, if the windows are open, the smoke comes inside. Sometimes she'll smoke on the porch and come in as soon as the butt is stubbed out.

What's all this got to do with second hand smoke? Not a lot.

Just for a moment, though, and think if it was someone farting. Not just a little toot. Not even a big, lingering "Silent but Deadly". I mean, a clinging, five minute performance around shops, in resturants, on the street, in elevators, in bars like someone is walking around with pant legs soaked with diarreha.

It's just fucking common courtesty to not stink up everything around other people.

But hey, no one has died from a tiny bit of radiation (uh oh, flamebait territory) or baby Hitler/raptor mutations.

Oh, what a drama queen, am i rite? I mean, it's not so bad once you get use to it. You could fart up your room at night and, while you'd notice a difference between that and the immediate hallway, it wouldn't send you running, gasping for fresh air. The same with dropping a load in the toilet. That doesn't mean you really want to go in there after someone else turned it into a superfund site.

Re:No worries - they still have a perfect scapegoa

[Anonymous Coward]

Bars, privately-owned business, and any other private property should not have to suffer under government-enforced morals.

Privately owned businesses have never been allowed to spike their drinks with arsenic either. Do you have a problem with that?

It's PC to be an Odor Nazi unless...

[RJBeery]

"No, we hate IMMIGRANTS who EAT FUNNY FOOD AND DON'T BATHE DAILY because of their unbelievably rude practice of subjecting everybody else to their filthy reeking emissions. CONSUMERS OF FOREIGN DIETS smell like fucking shit.

Since so few FOREIGNERS through the years have taken it upon themselves to do the civilized thing and ensure that nobody around them has to experience their vile UNwashed fumes, the victims are banding together to help the FOREIGNERS learn what should have been common courtesy."

-R

Road apples and oranges

[Scrameustache]

Since so few defecators through the years have taken it upon themselves to do the civilized thing and ensure that nobody around them has to experience their vile backwashed fumes, the victims are banding together to help the defedators learn what should have been common courtesy. Hey, jackass, it's been illegal to take a dump at your table in restaurants this whole time.

Moral of the story

[nevvamind]

No matter what you do, you're gonna die !
Almost everything around you is gonna cause cancer and kill you ...

ACS.ORG Reference

[Kryptic Knight]

Does anyone actaully know of a reference / page to the documented original report that Morawska authored?

I already have a deluge of "move this printer - its unhealthy" requests, along with similar "but don't move it too far" counterpoints.

I'm eager to print the document out a few times and whack the staff around the ears with it.

for real?

[whitroth]

Twoenty-odd years ago, I got an office funny - one of those papers passed around, that have mostly been replaced with emails - entitled "Comments considered harmful", talking about all the fumes from the laswer printers....

For the clue-resistant, IT WAS A JOKE!!! Comment your goddamned code!

                mark

Apples/cyanide

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, it's the apple seeds that contain it, not the meat of the fruit. A quick Google search will yield that you'd have to eat a bushell of seeds at once to hurt yourself, otherwise, your body would just process the minute amount of poison. This is of course is if you're in to eating the seeds (or drink barrels of apple cider daily).

List of the worst culprits from the study

[n_gatherer_z]

HP Color LaserJet 4650dn
HP Color LaserJet 5550dtn
HP Color LaserJet 8550N
HP LaserJet 1320N
HP LaserJet 1320n
HP LaserJet 2420dn
HP LaserJet 4200dtn
HP LaserJet 4250n
HP LaserJet 5
HP LaserJet 8000DN
HP LaserJet 8150N
TOSHIBA Studio 450

http://pubs.acs.org/cgi-bin/sample.cgi/esthag/asap /html/es063049z.html#es063049zt00001

Re:List of the worst culprits from the study

[n_gatherer_z]

...and two of those printers are twenty feet from my desk. Stupid curiosity - ignorance was bliss!

Re:Ah, Yest! Empower those bureacrats!

[XedLightParticle]

Don't worry it won't happen, such a move from science to politics is very rare. But turning politics into science/knowledge/common sense is, as you mention, quite common... the fears of terrorism, smokers and global warming just to mention a few recent cases.

don't worry

[eatont9999]

It seems like everything in the world will slowly kill you. Well, I don't plan to live longer than 80 years and damn it I am going to enjoy life as much as I can. Worrying about petty things like being killed by my Laser Jet just waste my time.