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Wine 0.9.44 Released
jshriverWVU writes to let us know about the release of Wine 0.9.44. Wine is a free implementation of Windows on Unix/Linux. New in this release are: better heuristics for making windows managed; automatic detection of timezone parameters; improvements to the built-in WordPad; better signatures support in crypt32; still more gdiplus functions; and of course lots of bug fixes.
What ever happened to the impending release of Wine 1.0? I seem to remember it was coming very soon 6 months ago. It would be a great publicity boost for the software if it reached that point.
"I bless every day that I continue to live, for every day is pure profit."
Yes.
(If you want a useful answer, ask a meaningful question).
</trollfood>
Pirate Party UK
Yes, it has gotten way better.
It has support for Direct3D, tons of winapi functions, etc... It's pretty awesome at this stage, really.
Wine releases every 14 days, see http://winehq.org/ Are we now going to see these kinds of news on /. every time there's a trivial update? I can think of a couple of apps and releases that are a little more important...
I'm sure there are some great new features, but mentioning improvements to WordPad is some serious flamebait...
What were you trying to run?
:)
Took me a while to get the last app I tried going too. One of the biggest problems was the lack of support for signatures in crypt32.. which co-incidentally this release fixes
I should write a tutorial or something.
How we know is more important than what we know.
Try getting it to run on Cygwin. That's lots of fun!
When I say "run" I mean "work properly" not "it compiles. Ship it".
Btw, I'm aware that OpenBSD's port of WINE dates from 1999, just another sign that BSD is dying, I guess!
I find it is pretty good at what it runs. The problem is that for me, the kind of things it runs are the things that I can get on Linux natively anyway.
The things it falls short on are things like the latest office products, latest adobe products and some of the games I like to play. It's helpful in places but does not yet close the gap for me.
I've been thinking of starting to ./configure --prefix a Wine install into a subdirectory of my home directory and applying a script wrapper to the wine binary.
Pretty much every application or game I use under Wine requires either a patch against wine or some app specific hack to get it working properly, and often they don't work in the next Wine version.
Wine is great but setting up multiple apps or games to work under it is horrible.
Because parts of Wordpad are often used as a text editing component in other programs. In addition, Wordpad acts as a good test case for much of wine's infrastructure.
Prediction for end of Universe #42: Fencepost error in Quantum_bogosort.cpp
I can finally use WordPad at its full potential !
____
nico
Nico-Live
BTW, Has anyone managed to run securecrt under wine getting right the terminal screen size inside the window?
I always get mangled output when I scroll after the first screen rows....
Thanks
g.
I know this is highly unlikely Is it possible in the future that the wine and Cedega projects merge to create a truly powerful tool for running windows games and applications on Linux? Something like point2run for everything. Or maybe someone can fork a new project based on CVS cedega with some added wine? Sorry if my questions sound noobish...
If you got the source, you can do that yourself.
All you need is to comment out a few lines, you'll know which.
Patents Drive Free Software as Hurricanes Drive Construction Industry
Ha! try getting it to run Cygwin and then using it to run Qemu to run Windows XP to VMware to run Linux. When you have completed that young grasshopper then your training is complete.
I may agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to face the consequences of saying it.
improvements to the built-in WordPad
That's been one thing that really bugs me about Linux. I'm fed up of having to use horrible outdated editors like emacs and vi. Now finally I can use a decent editor without having to dual-boot.
I'll probably be modded down for this...
So let's all have a big group hug and make up. We need each other.
"I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
Nope, but the existence of wine is proof that people don't like windows and want their apps running on gnu/linux systems..
Has anyone ever managed to get Office 2003 fully working under WINE yet? I spent a week trying once. Never got it right. Probably something to do with the fact that it doesn't have the ability to run as a Win98 program.
I would love to use Wine, but unfortunately I don't have Linux. Are there any plans to port Wine to Windows?
Wine is one of the most useful open source projects if you are a BSD or Linux user and there is at least one M-Windows application that you can't replace.
In my case, I run the Oxford English Dictionary under Wine.
Rich And Stupid is not so bad as Working For Rich And Stupid.
At least at the moment. It would be like marking a half-built car (WARNING! car-analogy) as ready for use. I think it would be pointless to push such a product because it is simply not ready yet. Users would also have higher expectations of the product than what should be realistic. That said, Wine has come a long way. Playing opengl games works great. The same can't be said for directx. Some installers does not function at all. And there is a lot of other issues as well. Wine 9.64 seems more realistic than wine 1.0 at the moment.
Never heard of coLinux, then? An excellent project for some things.
chaosite wrote:
> Yes, it has gotten way better.
> It has support for Direct3D, tons of winapi functions, etc... It's pretty awesome at this stage, really.
Oblivion, perhaps the most widely acclaimed game from last year, runs pretty well on Wine 0.9.38. Someone made changes to the DirectX thread-related code that causes Oblivion under Wine to crash for every version since. The lesson here is that the newest version of Wine is not necessarily the best one to use for any given application.
An unjust law is no law at all. - St. Augustine
Wrong. It's called "Services For Unix", not "Services For Linux". And it doesn't provide Linux binary compatibility (like SCO, Solaris, and *BSD provide).
Do you even lift?
These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.
It's good enough now that I've found a windows program (presumably written for ~win98) that will run under wine but not on windows 2000. Unfortunately I'm not willing to publicly admit to posessing the program in question, so you'll have to take my word for it.
I am trolling
If you don't mind copying them over from a Windows installation, at least *some* Adobe apps run.
Photoshop CS2
I haven't tried this with CS3... but here is Dreamweaver 8
I was able to get the extension manager, fireworks, and flash working this way.... but not contribute.... but I'm still working on that since I think it uses the IE component, and I just have to install IE.
Seeing that they work under WINE... and quite well, it would be cool if they could work with Codeweavers like Google did to at least hit the Linux market.
Make America grate again!
About six months ago I was given the task of modifying an ancient program "designed for windows 95." The program installs and runs fine on Windows XP as long as you don't try to change anything. However, once you run the editor you quickly discover that it doesn't display or accept clicks for some of the dialog box buttons, so you have to guess the accelerator shortcuts.
I tried running it with Windows 95 compatibility mode. No luck. I was at my wits end, and then finally I remembered I had an old copy of Windows 95 on a hard disk in the closet, so I dug it out and tried to boot it on my 2.5GHz machine. CRASH! There's a documented bug in the NDIS driver for CPUs over 2.2 GHz. Safe mode didn't help.
I gave up on the project for a few months, until one day I was introduced to VMware by a friend. I tried running the program on Windows XP under VMware. No luck. Then I tried Windows 2000. No luck either. Finally I managed to scrape the install .CABs off of the Windows 95 hard disk. BINGO! The program runs correctly under Windows 95, but it's PAINFUL to use it under emulation (due to video related issues; the emulated CPU runs faster than the one that powered my fastest Windows 95 box).
If Wine will run the program correctly at close to native speed, I'd be willing to give it a try. By chance, is this mysterious program you mention also made by Borland?
Call me when I can Install and run at least MSOffice 2k3 using wine.
These guys work really hard to address Lunix's greatest deficiency: that it isn't Windows.
It seems like WINE has been around forever. And here there is this minor update, yippee! What annoys me is this lack of 64 bit support. Late last year I finally switched completely (for the most part) to Linux due to Window's lack of 64bit support. Mind you, I was shocked and stunned (or is it the other way around) that I was getting better hardware support under Linux then Windows. But what has been disappointing is a need for some applications that do not exist under Linux, and where no comparable alternatives exist (Photoshop, Microsoft Visio, etc. - and no, Gimp is not comparable. Its not even comparable to Paint Shop Pro). For my college classes, I sometimes need to access systems that are in effect DRMed and only work under IE (that whole invasive ActiveX, junk up your system crud). Their solution to accessing this under Linux is to use WINE. Which, seems to be only 32 bit. I could have swore I read something awhile back suggesting they were going to be doing a 64 bit version this year. I take it this hasn't happened yet. In light of this slashdot article post, I've once again looked into WINE. I have recently discovered WineOn64Bit article on the WINE Wiki. Will shoot for giving that a try in the next few days. Has anyone else done this successfully? Any caveats not mentioned in that article? Or does anyone know anything about some native 64 bit WINE?
There are 10 types of cliches in this world. Those that are new, and those that aren't.
Getting programs to work using WINE can still be a pain. If you take a look at games like Command & Conquer 3 or Supreme Commander, there is a way to get them to work in WINE, but it's not as simple as running the installer and then running the game immediately after.
WINE has mostly likely improved a lot since you last used it, but these sorts of issues (apply this patch, download this dll, etc) will probably be around for a while to come. The important thing is that it's continually improving and will one day probably be quite good at running almost anything painlessly.
You can find all that you need on Linux nowadays, even decent office products. If Wine keeps taking up your time to install/configure/troubleshoot then what is that time worth to you (classic cost vs time)? If you really need those Windows apps for some reason then push the money into a Windows license. Better yet get your business to buy it for you. If it's just for personal use then you really have to ask yourself what the hell you're doing.
Complaint to the guys that made the latest office products, adobe and games, because it turns out that the most frequent reason WINE can't run something is a copy protection...
Copyright infringement is "piracy" in the same way DRM is "consumer rape"
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power lost.
Well, ok fine, 0.9.97882.6.
I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
No, the program I'm talking about was not made by borland; I can't promise anything from wine with your particular program, but it's probably worth a try (using winecfg to tell wine to emulate win95 rather than the default of winxp may help), depending of course on how much effort it would take you to use wine; on the speed front wine is more than capable of near-native (certainly better than 50%) speeds even with graphics-heavy programs.
I am trolling
Funny thing is, the LOOOONG release time of WinXP has given the developers the time they need to get wine working really well.
I haven't seen a wine update on /. in quite a while, what's the problem with the occasional update?
Sure there have been codeweavers and Transgaming updates, but this is the real deal, this is the project they forked from.
I agree... Its made lots of advancements over the years but does not close the gap for me. Some of my favorite games will not fully run. I also have a few mods I work on every so often. Wine does not work with the mod tools. Ultimately I boot to WinXPPro if I choose to play games or mod. Otherwise I stay in GNU/Linux. Also... Why call it wine? Why not beer?
Right, but the question for me is how it scales. How much money and time needs to be dumped on it?
How much does it cost to make a DLL that is currently 75% --> 100% ?
what Wine is really missing is a tool that documents all calls by programs, so you say: aha, this stub is needed by these applications, so let's implement it.
Or: this application sents these messages to the function.
control Spy as an interesting test tool
http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=239
Anyone want to tell my why management is craving Fistya ^H^H^H^H^H^H, I mean Vista ????
What can it really do that XP cannot ???
If you lock XP down, it does just fine, and runs all the Win32 apps now....
It's total bullshit if you ask me.
google "32 trillion offshore needs IRS attention"
Why a Linux-tag? What does Wine have to do with Linux?
I understand that Wine is important to Linux community, but should all the software that run on Linux be tagged as Linux? Should all software that runs on operating systems X, Y and Z be tagged as X, Y and Z? What about the hardware platforms?
When *I* try to build under Cygwin, I get loads of errors related to the "hidden" attribute, as well as makefiles that lack some library include paths.
As I am not very bright, would you mind pointing me to the particular lines that I'd need to comment out to get Wine rocking in Cygwin?
Improvements to Wordpad? A milestone! Where can I download this masterpiece?
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
64-bit support for Win32? What an odd concept.
Wine runs fine on my 64-bit Linux system as a 32-bit binary (AMD64). I haven't tried it, but now that you've got my curiosity up, I may try it on an IA-64 (Itanium) too, which also happily handles x86 32 bit apps in emulation.
Sure, these days Windows allegedly supports 64-bit platforms. Any idea how much of that is really running in 64 bit native mode vs 32 bit mode? (I have no idea, but I do recall the Win95 days when an allegedly 32-bit OS turned out to do an awful lot of thunking to 16 bits.)
-- Alastair
I gave up on the project for a few months, until one day I was introduced to VMware by a friend. I tried running the program on Windows XP under VMware. No luck. Then I tried Windows 2000. No luck either. Finally I managed to scrape the install .CABs off of the Windows 95 hard disk. BINGO! The program runs correctly under Windows 95, but it's PAINFUL to use it under emulation (due to video related issues; the emulated CPU runs faster than the one that powered my fastest Windows 95 box).
Will it run in Windows 98? If so, create a Win98 vm in VMWare. I run a few apps that way and it works great. On modern hardware in a vm 98 is very fast. In VMWare it's usably stable, better than my experience using it on real hardware.LOL improvements to Wordpad? Thanks!
Last time I tried using Civ II under Wine, it crashed as soon as it was actually time to play.
Oh, and if you are about to mention FreeCiv, don't. You don't give a chocoholic carob.
Hopefully I didn't put any [] around my words.
That's a question that probably only the original implementor(s) of the API could answer, however, it's normally not the question you need answered. The vast majority of apps don't need 100% of a DLL, they only use small subsets of it. The commonly used parts of most DLLs are already implemented, the real roadblock is finding the undocumented corner cases (and the expected behaviour), and ironing out any existing bugs.
Really, that tool already exists. Use WINEDEBUG=+relay and you'll see every function call made by the program as it makes it. Furthermore, stubs and functions that are known to be incomplete will print their own output (STUB or FIXME) if they're called.
Ultimately though, missing or stub functions aren't that big of a problem, it's usually fairly obvious if an app needs them, but they're missing. The real problem is the incomplete/missing/wrong Win32 API documentation on MSDN and everywhere else. The Win32 API documentation is sufficiently poor, that you really need to a) closely examine what an existing app expects of the API, and b) actually test the API yourself on all versions of Windows (they tend to differ on details). Often times, the best/only Win32 API documentation is the Wine source.
Game! - Where the stick is mightier than the sword!
The only problem I have that keeps WIndows fragments alive is that all the phones I have require Outlook for diary and contact management. I hate Outlook as a mail client (I use Thunderbird) but it is still one of the few things where MS has at least got some integration right if you overlook problems such as timezones and other real life use.
:-).
I have a Motorola RAZR (V3i) and a Sony Ericsson phone, and I need these to have their contacts synched. I hope to have the remote sync working at some point so it synchronises with a server on the Net, but until then I'm stuck with having Outlook and the sync software on the machine.
For the rest I have not found a reason to hang on to Windows, and this box thus mostly runs Kubuntu (I use KDE because I also demonstrate this to others). If someone can come up with a solution for mobile phones that works or at least a single consistent interface/API to whatever program sits in the background it would help a lot. You need calendar, contacts, todo and probably email as well, and a really clever solution would NOT replicate addresses and appointment 20x because different phones refer to the same database. Mobile phone sync could be the killer app for Google, but presently it appears we'll have to rely on a 3rd party such as http://www.goosync.com/.
The rest (pictures, music etc) will probably work OK via it presenting itself as a USB memory stick..
Anyway, I'm planning to buy a Sony Ericsson P1i next month. I'll see how that interfaces. Probably no news there, but at least it has a more usable keyboard
Insert
Wine has never been useful is never useful. I mean, what need is there for a Windoze compatability layer anyways? Generally FOSS/FLOSS is available on Windoze it is also available on Linux as well. Plus, if someone needs a closed source application for a specific job, chances are there is an open source alternative. Again, what need is there for WINE?
> the very existance (sp) of Wine is proof that Linux isn't able to exist without windows.
Uh-huh. Offering an option proves that everybody needs that option. (Just for the record, I haven't had Wine installed since '01, and haven't used Windows since '98.)
Does the very existence of Viper mode prove that Emacs isn't able to exist without vi? Makes about as much sense.
Actually, what the existence of Wine proves is that some FLOSS developers are willing to try to provide a smoother migration path to those who are interested in exploring their options, but don't want to make a blind leap into the unknown.
Unlike Dosbox, Wine isn't an emulator. It isn't separate from the system, like a virtual machine. Instead, it's more like Cygwin, which provides a POSIX layer to run Unix programs on Windows
:: Cygwin : Windows
Wine : Linux
if that helps.
I installed wine and xwine then tried running it, and that's about as far as I got. It crashed every time I tried to adjust the settings. :(
It took me a while to get that TLA. I thought SFU was shorthand for STFU!
If you configure wine with --enable-win64 it will build as a win64 version. This version will not run 32-bit programs, however, and 64-bit windows programs are rare.
What office are you trying to run?
What were you trying to run?
A usable CAD app would be nice.
I'm still using XP because I need AutoCAD (or IntelliCAD, an AutoCAD Clone)
I should write a tutorial or something.
Well, yes, that would be useful.
"I'm a snake if we disagree"-Jethro Tull, Bungle in the Jungle
Shrug, guess it's no good then; sorry.
I am trolling
I've just checked, by attempting to install Half Life 2 under Wine.
It was actually really easy. The only problem was that I had to run Steam a couple times before it agreed to update itself...
Oh well, executing Winetestu ilt/winetest-latest.exe
http://www.astro.gla.ac.uk/users/paulm/WRT/CrossB
I understand that your answer is the official party line. I think in 2001 it was the same response.
What I mean is not a per-application tool but a per-Wine tool with feedback of all used applications.
Currently I can't say: function x, it gets executed by Acrobat Reader 2.1, Firefox, fuzzycalc and Darly's Printshop. So the person who implements it can test it with these applications that make use of it.
I understand that a function does not need to be 100% implemented. But think about a sponsor who says: I want to sponsor dll x. Or: My program WAccounting uses these 5 API calls, I want this program to run perfect under Wine, what does it cost me?
What also motivates people is to see a kind of progress bar. I mean a automated script that indicates how much stubs and so on are in there.
I also would like to get informed how to debug an application with Wine. The documentation is heavily outdated and imcomplete here. WINEDEBUG=+relay is intresting, I tried it out. But the documentation is not very informative here.
My perception is that we will get
- almost perfect DirectX games support
- very good installer and crypto support.
because here it really does scale but wine development did not scale that much over the past years.
When most application run it is not to difficult to get people to resolve the remaining bugs. But areas where the wine support probability is low won't develop too fast. It is all about "islands" of supports that expand at the edges. The more applications get platinum the easier it expands,
One great issue these days is for instance that most users can easily get the latest version installed. So wine gets more testing. anyway I would really like to participate in a workshop on how to hack wine.
It's not about repeating the "party line" (to be honest, I don't think there is one), I'm not really a Wine developer either (although I've had 2 small patches committed), I'm just presenting the situation the way I see it.
Strictly speaking, you're right, but that data is fairly easily accessable. For example, here's a tiny script that'll give you said information (just feed it a +relay trace), I just wrote it in the span of a few minutes. It could be useful to integrate such data with the AppDB.
In general, people don't seem to care about how much of a DLL is implemented, they care about if their programs foo, baz and bar work. Most of the major investments into Wine have been to make a particular program (or set of programs) work, such as Google with Picasa (list of patches), or Corel with Wordperfect and CorelDRAW (until Microsoft threw a large chunk of money at them).
In a similar vein, Codeweavers offers porting services for Wine, ie, they'll make a particular application work, and they can give you an estimate of how much it'll cost, on a case by case basis.
I agree that people like progress bars (so do I), but they can be deceptive. For example, the Wine status pages have an automated script that guesses the completion status of all DLLs based on the contents of the .spec file for each DLL, but this isn't always accurate. For example, the .spec files don't seem to contain all functions for a given DLL, (I'd guess any COM functions aren't in there, as they're special, AFAIK), and while the automated tool thinks that d3d8 and d3d9 are 40% and 20% completed, respectively, the actual case is closer to 95% in both cases, based upon developer inspection.
Here's the complete list of WINEDEBUG channels, as well as some useful registry keys, and a debugging tutorial. Generally when you're debugging something, WINEDEBUG can be very useful with the right channels selected.
Actually, as I menti
Game! - Where the stick is mightier than the sword!
Very interesting. Wow. Very useful information. I was playing around with the relay setting yesterday. > The Wine project simply needs more manpower more than anything, help is most any area would be appreciated by many. Yeah, easier access to development. I know from my own project that you get your core team of brilliant and informed people that do 90% of the work but it is really necessary to spent at least 10% to reach out to the community and explain what you are doing and how to hack the code. Because otherwise your project does not scale.
But does directdraw work again? I had it before, then my harddrive crashed and I've never been able to match that configuration since then because they're always changing versions and implementations. I miss starcraft under linux. And yes, I enabled opengl rendering for all the good it does me.
Evidently, the key to understanding recursion is to begin by understanding recursion. The rest is easy.