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Bioshock's Launch Aftershocks

It should come as no surprise that the level of hype BioShock reached in the last month has had some aftereffects. The game itself is really good; few are disputing that. There were, however, some problems. Next Gen has a few words with Ken Levine on BioShock's troubled launch looking at the broken Big Daddies, the allegations of a rootkit, and the 'widescreen issue'. There are other issues still floating around, of course: despite rumours Levine has now confirmed there will be no PS3 version of the game, and one problem may just be starting as big media finds out about the Little Sisters. 'The Boston Patriot-Ledger ... argues that BioShock is "testing the limits of the ultraviolent gaming genre with a strategy that enables players to kill characters resembling young girls." Despite the shock-inducing lead, the article goes on to give a more or less accurate description of BioShock's choice between saving and harvesting the creepy Little Sisters ... The conclusion tries to draw a link between BioShock's violence to a stabbing death allegedly inspired by Grand Theft Auto, but the connection is pretty weak.' To close on a good note check out 1up's profile of Levine's career, or download the BioShock score ... which is beautiful.

267 comments

  1. No bioshock for me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I was really anticipating bioshock. Then I installed the demo. The demo which came with... the rootkit. In the DEMO. Couldn't get rid of it after uninstalling the demo. I'm voting with my dollars. I'll pass and wait a year or two and see if they change their mind. No sale, 2K.

    1. Re:No bioshock for me by Decado · · Score: 5, Informative

      There is no rootkit you idiot, just some fool who didn't know how to use some rootkit detection utilities and mistook a single registry entry for a rootkit.

      --

      Slashdot: Proof that a million monkeys at a million typewriters can create a masterpiece

    2. Re:No bioshock for me by Rycross · · Score: 5, Informative

      Its worse than that. When the guy who detected it was corrected in his comments, he stated that he would get better hits if he called it a rootkit and then went on to say that he'd let the readers decide if it was really a rootkit.

      The whole OMG ROOTKIT thing was nothing more than a publicity stuff. Yes its DRM, and yes it sucks, but its not a rootkit. And you don't get it if you buy it off of Steam either.

      Sadly, I've noticed that Slashdot is very VERY bad about spreading disinformation and hyperbole. It'd be nice if the stories could be substantiated and checked for accuracy, especially considering the number of people who take anything posted on Slashdot as The One and Only Truth.

    3. Re:No bioshock for me by Ford+Prefect · · Score: 1

      The whole OMG ROOTKIT thing was nothing more than a publicity stuff. Yes its DRM, and yes it sucks, but its not a rootkit. And you don't get it if you buy it off of Steam either.

      You do get the same SecuROM installed with the Steam version of Bioshock - I know this because I had a look for the 'OMG ROOTKIT!!!1' registry keys, and they were present. Apparently Steam's usual copy-protection stuff wasn't good enough.

      But yes, Slashdot does seem to be pretty bad for spreading disinformation. For instance, the short-lived GPL violations with DOSBOX and the older Id games on Steam - fixed before the article was posted. And then, this SecuROM thing being branded by all and sundry as a 'rootkit'. Argh...

      I do hope it gets removed sooner or later - but it does seem to have the publishers' desired effect of stifling piracy. Unfortunately, it's also rather effective at pissing off the more vocal gamers on the interwebnet. Oops.
      --
      Tedious Bloggy Stuff - hooray?
    4. Re:No bioshock for me by Rycross · · Score: 2, Informative

      I installed over steam, did a search for the SecuROM stuff, and came up negative.

    5. Re:No bioshock for me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      I installed over steam, did a search for the SecuROM stuff, and came up negative.

      That's because the rootkit is hiding it.

    6. Re:No bioshock for me by Rycross · · Score: 2, Informative

      Which would be significant if it was a rootkit in the first place. It isn't. And I used the exact same tools and process that the guy who found the SecuROM stuff did. Several other people with Steam have indicated that they didn't get hit with the SecuROM stuff.

    7. Re:No bioshock for me by sgilti · · Score: 1

      =)
      In all seriousness though, I still am having difficulty removing that SecuROM garbage from my computer. From installing a Demo. Further, Slashdot doesn't spread bad information.. it posts links to things. You, yes you, have a comment right up on top of that link post decrying the 'rootkit'. You *are* verifying the articles. What more do you want?

    8. Re:No bioshock for me by Rycross · · Score: 1

      If that were the case, then they should post the link without a summary or headline. The fact of the matter is, they do post summaries and headlines, and quite often they're inaccurate, and fairly often they're extremely accusatory. What I want is to not go to tech forums and see outright false information being spread because a story gets up on the Slashdot front page with blatantly false or spun information. The comments are not the same thing as making sure the story is valid in the first place.

      And yes, no one site is perfect in this regard, but Slashdot has been, as of late, absolutely horrible with the spin.

    9. Re:No bioshock for me by Ford+Prefect · · Score: 1

      I installed over steam, did a search for the SecuROM stuff, and came up negative.

      Out of interest, which version of Bioshock do you have?

      I bought the EU edition over Steam - which has left registry keys in HKEY_CURRENT_USER/Software/SecuROM. I haven't downloaded the demo or anything. I'm not really bothered, but it's there nevertheless.

      If anyone actually comes up with definite reason as to why SecuROM is particularly unpleasant, I may get concerned - but for now I'd rather just have fun playing the game!

      --
      Tedious Bloggy Stuff - hooray?
    10. Re:No bioshock for me by Rycross · · Score: 2, Informative

      I bought it on Friday night, US version. I also installed the demo from Steam too. I can check again just to be sure whenever I get home.

      I remember my brother telling me that it installed a rootkit, and being super pissed off, then researching and finding out that, no, its not a rootkit, just a Windows service that does some tricks to make it a pita to uninstall. After that I did the scan and came up with nothing.

      I'd classify it as DRM/malware, because it seems like its particularly nasty to get out of your system. But it doesn't behave like a rootkit, and thus far I haven't heard of any bad side effects, other than the usual DRM stuff.

    11. Re:No bioshock for me by Rycross · · Score: 1

      Well as an update, looks like I was wrong. They slipped it in there sometime.

    12. Re:No bioshock for me by Emetophobe · · Score: 1

      There are plenty of games that use Securom, so the key might have been there from before you bought and installed Bioshock. If you own Warcraft 3 Reign of Chaos, Descent Freespace, Masters of Orion, etc. etc, all sorts of games use securom. This is a non-issue that certain "media" sites and blogging sites have spun into a sensationalist story to drive page hits.

    13. Re:No bioshock for me by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      I've noticed that Slashdot is very VERY bad about spreading disinformation and hyperbole. It'd be nice if the stories could be substantiated and checked for accuracy, especially considering the number of people who take anything posted on Slashdot as The One and Only Truth.
      No, I'd say slashdot was very very GOOD at that.
      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  2. Well Don't That Beat All. by Petersko · · Score: 4, Interesting

    "And finally, I want to personally congratulate Racer_S from the Widescreen Gaming Forums, and his awesome user patch to expand the widescreen FOV in BioShock. I'm currently tracking him down via email, but hopefully, he'll accept my gratitude, and maybe an Nvidia 8800 to boot."

    Now that is a terrific attitude. 2K Games went up 10 notches on my Classy Scale.

    1. Re:Well Don't That Beat All. by PIPBoy3000 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      In my opinion, 2K Games has addressed the issues that have come up in a very rapid and appropriate way. When people started running into problems with the 2 active PC install issue, they bumped it up to 5, even though this technically lets 5 people pool their dollars to buy a single game.

      The other thing to note is that the DRM is dictated by the publisher, not so much the developer (though in this case they became the same during Bioshock's development). Personally I haven't had any problems with it at all.

      None of this retracts from the fact that Bioshock is one of the best games ever made. It has gorgeous art direction, intriguing morality, wonderfully diverse gameplay, and a sense of tension I haven't seen for ages. I spent most of Sunday playing the game and dreamt about it all night. That's something I haven't done with a game in a very long time.

    2. Re:Well Don't That Beat All. by vertinox · · Score: 2, Informative

      In my opinion, 2K Games has addressed the issues that have come up in a very rapid and appropriate way. When people started running into problems with the 2 active PC install issue, they bumped it up to 5, even though this technically lets 5 people pool their dollars to buy a single game.

      It still doesn't change the fact SecuROM is a rootkit. No amount of reinstalls allotments will change that.

      I mean, most people bitch that by itself Steam is evil incarnate, but its quite a saint compared to what Starforce and SecuROM does to your system.

      Personally, I feel Steam and Gamer's Gate AB isn't a bad way to do things (you authenticate, checks the CD Key lets you install and your done) but installing anything else that disables programs and could potentially used as a method to root the system is a bad thing. No amount of freebies and patches will resolve that issue.

      --
      "I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
      -Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
    3. Re:Well Don't That Beat All. by heinousjay · · Score: 5, Informative

      Except it's not a rootkit. Jeez, you people are really demonstrating the power of misinformation.

      --
      Slashdot - where whining about luck is the new way to make the world you want.
    4. Re:Well Don't That Beat All. by the+Plums+in+us · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Rootkit's an easy word for "software that installed without telling me, that modifies Windows Explorer, that could be potentially exploited to compromise my system, that makes my game not work if I've got certain other software running, etc. etc."

      If it's not a rootkit by strict definition, what do we call it? "Copy-protection software" doesn't quite cover it.

    5. Re:Well Don't That Beat All. by heinousjay · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Is it used to compromise the system? No. It's used as copy protection. Obviously, you want to attach emotionally charged terms to make it seem worse than it is.

      --
      Slashdot - where whining about luck is the new way to make the world you want.
    6. Re:Well Don't That Beat All. by the+Plums+in+us · · Score: 1

      I thought I remembered something in the original "rootkit" thread about how a third party could theoretically exploit the SecuROM hooks to hide malicious code on someone's machine. I can't find the reference at the moment, so maybe I'm mistaken, or paraphrasing FUD, or something. So, sorry.

      My question still stands though: what is a more appropriate term for SecuROM? I consider this beyond what qualifies as typical "copy protection", even if that is it's intended purpose. Or is this just par for the course for copy protection nowadays?

    7. Re:Well Don't That Beat All. by Shagg · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It still doesn't change the fact SecuROM is a rootkit. You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
      --Inigo Montoya
      --
      Unix is user friendly, it's just selective about who its friends are.
    8. Re:Well Don't That Beat All. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Look, if you're so stupid that you use the incompatible, obsolete and useless Microseft Piece of Shit system you deserve being pwn3d.

      Glass
      --
      Laughing at Windows idiots since 1987

    9. Re:Well Don't That Beat All. by Opportunist · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The world is so unfair, and so superficial. A guy who fixes a visual glitch gets a graphics card as a gift, a guy who removes the crippling effects and the bogus registry entries would certainly get jail time. :(

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    10. Re:Well Don't That Beat All. by Opportunist · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Ok, it's not a rootkit. It's a malware faciliating tool, hiding parts of the system from the eyes of the user, potentially offering a way to compromise the security of said system.

      So. Satisfied?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    11. Re:Well Don't That Beat All. by shotgunsaint · · Score: 1

      Offtopic, I know. But you're attributing that quote to the wrong character. It's Wesley, dressed as the dread pirate Roberts, in the battle of wits against the Sicilian. I wouldn't comment, but that's the third time I've seen it so attributed this week.

      --
      The future isn't here until I can type "car keys" into Google and have it say "You left them in your pants last night."
    12. Re:Well Don't That Beat All. by Shagg · · Score: 1
      --
      Unix is user friendly, it's just selective about who its friends are.
    13. Re:Well Don't That Beat All. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Possibly, quite possibly, the reason this is the 3rd time you've seen it attributed to Inigo this week is because it IS his line. He says it right after they climb up the rope onto the cliff.

    14. Re:Well Don't That Beat All. by Jarjarthejedi · · Score: 1

      Oh man...that makes me wish I still had some mod points. Definitely mod parent up.

      If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, we have at least to consider the possibility that we have a small aquatic bird of the family anatidae on our hands.
      -Douglas Adams

      --
      There are two kinds of fool One says 'This is old therefore good' Another says 'This is new therefore better'- Dean Ing
    15. Re:Well Don't That Beat All. by NMerriam · · Score: 1

      Inigo does say that line, when the Sicilian keeps claiming it is "inconceivable" that Roberts keeps gaining on them.

      --
      Recursive: Adj. See Recursive.
    16. Re:Well Don't That Beat All. by geekoid · · Score: 1

      I wrote a piece of software that made almost every mortgage in the United States substantially cheaper. I didn't even get a free mortgage. :(

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    17. Re:Well Don't That Beat All. by Spikeles · · Score: 1

      Ahahah. Go watch the movie again, and this time pay attention.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2y8Sx4B2Sk

      --
      I don't need to test my programs.. I have an error correcting modem.
    18. Re:Well Don't That Beat All. by NateE · · Score: 1

      If they had released the demo earlier the widescreen FOV problem would've been addressed at release with a patch. Releasing the demo at the last minute was kinda odd. Otherwise no complaints with Bioshock! :)

    19. Re:Well Don't That Beat All. by MaineCoon · · Score: 4, Informative

      Except, it doesn't even do that. It's a pretty obvious service, that you can stop, set to Manual start, or even disable, and it is removed on uninstall. (Yes, the service itself is removed even if the registry keys got left behind).

      The ONLY reason it has been referred to as a 'rootkit' is because SecuROM used a NUL character in their registry key, which the MS-provided Rootkit scanner flags as suspicious. By the way, it also flags some keys for MS software as 'suspicious' on a clean install, so how is that for reliable?

      Stop perpetuating misinformation that you have heard second hand from unreliable sources. You look like an alarmist for doing it.

      --
      Hunt your preferred prey at Aliens vs Predator MUD. Join the war at avpmud.com port 4000
    20. Re:Well Don't That Beat All. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's a service that is designed to allow privilege escalation for SecuROM protected applications so that they can perform low-level operations without the logged-in user having admin privileges.

      Can it be abused by malware? Don't know yet, but I know I'd be better off if it wasn't installed and running on my system.

    21. Re:Well Don't That Beat All. by kalirion · · Score: 1

      Is that how you replied to the allegations of the Sony music CD "rootkit"?

    22. Re:Well Don't That Beat All. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      > Is it used to compromise the system? No. It's used as copy protection.

      "Suppose you were a Congressman. And suppose you were an idiot. But I repeat myself."
      - Mark Twain.

    23. Re:Well Don't That Beat All. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You killed my father, prepare to die.

  3. Extra apostrophes... by DurendalMac · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    ...launch a lot of snide grammar nazi posts.

  4. Obligitory by faloi · · Score: 1, Funny

    "Just don't lead 'em as much"

    --
    "It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education." -Albert Einstein
  5. Morality Shock by Devir · · Score: 5, Interesting

    THe game is brave enough to touch on many issues others are simply too scared to face.

    Harvest or "Save" the Little sisters. The guy helping you out says you should kill them to harvest all the "Adam" you can get, this lets you essentially level up faster. Or you can Save them as their creator would like and get some huge reward later on. She has gained some morality after turning little girls into monsters.

    The theme is that you are in a fallen paradise city. The residents have gone insane and most are trying to kill you. You're forced to make moral choices on surviving, or dying. The city itself has fallen in disrepair and most residents will most likely die in a few years anyway.

    I've not noticed anything "considerably" broken with BIg daddies. I just see them as spawning and searching out the sisters. If you already got all the sisters in the level, then the big daddies just go on looking. It adds texture.

    The other moral issues in the game are gene modifications. Most denizens are mod junkies and have become twisted because of it. They were all once normal humans who took a little too much drugs. Some of the doctors in the city have gone a step further by doing horrible surgeries on people disfiguring them and killing their nurses in the process. It adds to the flavor of the story in which you are stuck in a Hell and are trying to find a way out.

    As far as "preservation of life" vs killing them goes. As far as the main character knows, they cant be "cured". They're trying to kill him, so he's gotta eliminate them first. The morality here is perhaps death is the better alternative. Either that or live life being disfigured and insane.

    Bioshock has gone through some serious blood and sweat in it's creation. I give them huge artistic credit as well as taking us to a level of morality so few are brave enough to go. There are many things that should be spoken about, but are not.

    1. Re:Morality Shock by sammy+baby · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I've not noticed anything "considerably" broken with BIg daddies. I just see them as spawning and searching out the sisters. If you already got all the sisters in the level, then the big daddies just go on looking. It adds texture.


      After I'd "rescued" all the Little Sisters from a level, I tried following around a Big Daddy just to see what would happen. It approached one of the crawlspaces, banged on it thunderously, then seemed almost to sigh when no Sister emerged from it to shepherd. I actually felt bad for it. Maybe there's some other spawning/AI problem, but I haven't noticed it.

      As far as "preservation of life" vs killing them goes. As far as the main character knows, they cant be "cured". They're trying to kill him, so he's gotta eliminate them first. The morality here is perhaps death is the better alternative. Either that or live life being disfigured and insane.


      Yeah - I don't recall anyone making an issue of it when Max Payne featured a character gunning down "Valkyrie" crazed addicts. And nobody particularly weeps for the zombies in Day of the Dead.
    2. Re:Morality Shock by 1019 · · Score: 3, Informative

      ..I've not noticed anything "considerably" broken with BIg daddies. I believe they're referring to the Big Daddy figurines that came with the Special (Collectors?) Edition, many of which had the drill piece broken off in shipment.

      --
      shame on us / for all we have done / and all we ever were / just zeroes and ones
    3. Re:Morality Shock by EtoilePB · · Score: 1

      I've not noticed anything "considerably" broken with BIg daddies. I just see them as spawning and searching out the sisters. If you already got all the sisters in the level, then the big daddies just go on looking. It adds texture.


      After I'd "rescued" all the Little Sisters from a level, I tried following around a Big Daddy just to see what would happen. It approached one of the crawlspaces, banged on it thunderously, then seemed almost to sigh when no Sister emerged from it to shepherd. I actually felt bad for it. Maybe there's some other spawning/AI problem, but I haven't noticed it.
      You know, that, to me, is the really incredible thing about Bioshock: it actually makes you feel as if you are there, in a dynamic world. In the very first cut-scene with a Big Daddy, I found myself ducking behind a nearby pillar so it wouldn't see me. Intellectually, I KNEW it was a cut-scene and that the game wouldn't perceive me in the next room watching it, but it's well-designed enough and immersive enough that my -- not my characters's, but MY -- self-preservation instincts kicked in. I very, very rarely find that in a game.

      There's no doubt to me that for once, a title with a crazy amount of hype actually deserves it. There will always be some people who think that the Next Thing is a harbinger of doom. They said it about novels, about photography, about film, about television, about Elvis, and now they're saying it about video games. It's too late for those voices to win, though. Game studies is popping up, and it's here to stay, and Bioshock was made to be a textbook example of how both graphics and violence can serve the purpose of art in gaming.
    4. Re:Morality Shock by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think that the broken Big Daddies they were talking about were the (physical) Big Daddy figurines that came in the limited edition box.

    5. Re:Morality Shock by krelian · · Score: 2, Informative

      I've not noticed anything "considerably" broken with BIg daddies. He was referring to the broken action figures not a broken game mechanic.
    6. Re:Morality Shock by Rycross · · Score: 4, Informative

      There was more to the game than that. Rapture was, in essense, an experiment in unfettered capitalism and self-interest. As the game goes on, you get to see how that influenced Rapture.

      Also, I blasted through killing everyone, and later found out that I missed some items that I could have gained if I hadn't been so quick on the trigger finger.

      Theres more to it than that, but it involves certain plot points, and I wouldn't want to ruin it for anyone. Your post makes it seem like you're still relatively early in the game, so I hope you enjoy it.

      As far as the Big Daddy issue, that had to do with the figurines that came with the collectors edition, nothing in-game.

      I have to say that the game was excellent. I'm already tempted to replay it.

    7. Re:Morality Shock by CODiNE · · Score: 1

      Harvest or "Save" the Little sisters. The guy helping you out says you should kill them to harvest all the "Adam" you can get, this lets you essentially level up faster. Or you can Save them as their creator would like and get some huge reward later on. She has gained some morality after turning little girls into monsters.

      I'd just like to add a little perspective on the shooting Little Sisters thing. Nobody complained when Will Smith shot an evil alien disguised as a cute little girl. Perhaps Will Smith is just cooler than us. NAWWWWW

      --
      Cwm, fjord-bank glyphs vext quiz
    8. Re:Morality Shock by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's the Big Daddy figures that are broken, not the AI. The Limited Edition came with a Big Daddy Figurine, and due to bad packaging, most were broken up.

    9. Re:Morality Shock by Guysmiley777 · · Score: 1

      I've not noticed anything "considerably" broken with BIg daddies. I just see them as spawning and searching out the sisters. If you already got all the sisters in the level, then the big daddies just go on looking. It adds texture.

      If you RTFA you'll see they are talking about the Big Daddy figurines that shipped with the Collector's Edition of the game. Apparently a significant portion broke during shipping.
      --
      Coding with assembly is like playing with Legos. Coding an application in assembly is like building a car with Legos.
    10. Re:Morality Shock by Pragmatix · · Score: 1

      There is a reason there are solo Big Daddies in the game, it is because of the plasmid that allows you to charm a Big Daddy to protect you.

    11. Re:Morality Shock by Devir · · Score: 1

      That's cool to hear. Big Daddies "Rosie" is a PIA to eliminate. Having them protect you would be wild.

    12. Re:Morality Shock by Devir · · Score: 1

      I'm very new into the game. I dont have tons of time like I used to. Also I'm "time sharing" Bioshock And Persona 3. Both very good games. With Metroid Prime 3 out now... well we'll see.

      From what i've played, up to the "casino" level, I'm saying Bioshock is AMAZING. There are huge ethical issues in this game that are past tense (nazi human experiments) as well as future thinking (genetic alterations).

      Rapture feels very alive. It feels intense to be trapped there and as others have said, the game causes your real life survival instinct to kick in. It's a perfect blend between Fallout, Systemshock, Dues Ex, Thief and Half life 1-2.

      I give them huge credit for the methods you choose to gather "adam".

      Oops, on the note, I didnt realize the figurins were broken. The Collectors Edition was sold out and I just wanted the game. I'm at work and can't fully read the articles.

    13. Re:Morality Shock by RamblinLonghorn · · Score: 1

      The camera actually helps out a ton. Similar to the camera in Dead Rising, you get bonuses against certain splicers and sometimes even a gene tonic when you reach a certain level of research.

    14. Re:Morality Shock by nuzak · · Score: 1

      > Nobody complained when Will Smith shot an evil alien disguised as a cute little girl.

      Erm, a plywood figure of a little girl. Maybe I saw a different movie, because the whole gag was about seeing the stunned shock of everyone else in the room, and his explanation to Rip Torn's character about why he took that shot. I really am searching for some kind of connection to a serious point here.

      --
      Done with slashdot, done with nerds, getting a life.
    15. Re:Morality Shock by RESPAWN · · Score: 1

      So what you're saying is that we should just kill them all, right? You'll get no argument from me.

      (Note that I am also the same guy who, much to his friends' disbelief, left my brother to die in my apartment in Deus Ex, so maybe I have some morality issues. ;)

      --

      If Murphy's Law can go wrong, it will.

    16. Re:Morality Shock by Ford+Prefect · · Score: 1

      That's cool to hear. Big Daddies "Rosie" is a PIA to eliminate. Having them protect you would be wild.

      Possibly my favourite plasmid - after your brave Mr. Bubbles has won all your battles for you, and is decidedly the worse for wear, leave him be for a few minutes. Despite his severe injuries and the steam gushing from the bullet-holes riddling his damaged frame, he'll valiantly summon another Little Sister to work on the corpses left from the fighting... ... At which point you kill him.

      Mwuhahahaha!
      --
      Tedious Bloggy Stuff - hooray?
    17. Re:Morality Shock by Cornelius+the+Great · · Score: 1

      Theres more to it than that, but it involves certain plot points, and I wouldn't want to ruin it for anyone. Your post makes it seem like you're still relatively early in the game, so I hope you enjoy it.
      Would you kindly refrain from revealing any plot spoilers? :)
      --
      Sigs are for losers
    18. Re:Morality Shock by Ford+Prefect · · Score: 1

      (Note that I am also the same guy who, much to his friends' disbelief, left my brother to die in my apartment in Deus Ex, so maybe I have some morality issues. ;)

      I left that brother to die as well - for some time afterwards, I thought that it was a fight which was impossible to win. I mean, all the dialogue later in the game supported that fact, right?

      When I discovered I could have saved him, I felt surprisingly guilty about it all.

      For the record, I saved every last Little Sister in Bioshock and got the cute-and-fluffy ending. Is that redemption yet?
      --
      Tedious Bloggy Stuff - hooray?
    19. Re:Morality Shock by Comen · · Score: 1

      "I've not noticed anything "considerably" broken with BIg daddies"

      Haha I thought that also, but if you read, there was some broken Big Daddies, that were sold in some limited edition boxes of the game I belive.

      From the article

      "The Limited Edition of the game has also been experiencing complaints, as the Big Daddy figures that were shipped in the package were prone to breaking during shipment."

      and

      "Levine tells us that these situations are also issues no longer. 2K Games will be replacing broken Big Daddy figures, providing a free art book to affected consumers as well. "People have had some broken Big Daddies. We've dealt with that"

      So there you go, they don't mean the AI, I actually loved the AI of the Big Dadiesin the game, I think the game should have a A+, really it was a great game.

    20. Re:Morality Shock by Kelbear · · Score: 3, Interesting

      After a scene in the fisheries, the game spawns 3 splicers scavenging in sewage water, and you stumble upon them from a high vantage point without being noticed.

      Obviously in gaming terms the correct thing to do is to electrocute the water, zapping all 3 and inflicting high and/or lethal damage on the spot, saving me from the potential danger these 3 splicers represent. After all, this is a shooter, and your primary interaction with anything in the world is to well, shoot it.

      So of course I zapped'em. Then something strange happened, I felt a twinge of remorse.

      The game had done such a good job of immersing me into the setting, a dying city filled with desperate people fighting for survival over the remains. I, as the player had been taken from normal society and thrown into Rapture. I had climbed down into the sewage to scavenge through the remains of the 3 splicers, when I realized that I was standing where they stood, doing the exact same thing they were. I'd attacked them in the same way they would have attacked me given the chance. Hell, I'd even attacked them with a plasmid I had spliced into my own DNA, just like them. It was an interesting thing to notice and I laud Bioshock for managing this, intentionally or otherwise.

      Any emotional interaction with a shooter has been incredibly rare, aside from this, they had done another "Mr. B-b-b-bubbles...". The only other game I can think of that has brought on feelings other than rage or fear, was HL2:Ep1, where my instinct was not to blast Alyx in the face with my pistol at every turn(unlike the HL1 scientists), but I had actually wanted to comfort her after a scene exiting a Combine railcar.

    21. Re:Morality Shock by RESPAWN · · Score: 1

      Heck, the dialogue up to that point also supported the fact that we wouldn't be able to beat the agents. Especially since my friends (who'd already played through the game) told me how truly bad those guys were. I did feel a little guilty as well, but I went back later and replayed the game and saved my brother in the process. Actually, that's one game that I wouldn't mind playing again.

      --

      If Murphy's Law can go wrong, it will.

    22. Re:Morality Shock by Kelbear · · Score: 1

      It's a valid point when you consider how ridiculous the original accusation against Bioshock is.

      Both feature real people pretending to be fake people harming fake littlegirls that are actually aliens/monsters.

      Neither actually endorse it. One plays it as shock humor(and if it's not shocking, then it loses all humor. The shock is the acknowledgement, it's why you laugh at racist jokes instead of simply nodding at a statement of fact). The other demonstrates how wrong it is by placing it in an extreme life or death scenario and juxtaposing this action against death for failure to equip yourself for life in Rapture. A complex moral issue, fitted against a Mature-only rating, making this a non-issue, as more serious moral issues dealing with real life are presented at earlier ages rather than this virtual dilemma only presented to older buyers.

    23. Re:Morality Shock by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      To judge from your description, it seems a perfectly fascist world view. (Yes, I know what the word "fascist" means.)

      You're forced to make moral choices on surviving, or dying. The city itself has fallen in disrepair and most residents will most likely die in a few years anyway.

      Just what fascists thought and think about their mission in history.

      The morality here is perhaps death is the better alternative. Either that or live life being disfigured and insane.

      Just what fascists thought and think about people with handicaps and the moral imperative to "euthanize" them.
    24. Re:Morality Shock by knodi · · Score: 1

      I've not noticed anything "considerably" broken with BIg daddies. I just see them as spawning and searching out the sisters. If you already got all the sisters in the level, then the big daddies just go on looking. It adds texture. Hehe... Poor choice of words. He meant that the collectible Big Daddy figurines that come with the collectors edition frequently come with a piece broken off. ;-)
      --
      Austin is more fun than Dallas.
    25. Re:Morality Shock by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That Big Daddy plasmid is what allowed me to beat that part in Hephateus where I had to keep turning that valve wheel while ambushes poured into the room. I charmed a Big Daddy, lead him there, and just kept turning the wheel while he went Rambo on anyone who came in and shot at me.

    26. Re:Morality Shock by bricklayer · · Score: 1

      I've not noticed anything "considerably" broken with BIg daddies. I just see them as spawning and searching out the sisters. If you already got all the sisters in the level, then the big daddies just go on looking. It adds texture. From the article:

      But it's not just technical issues that have troubled BioShock in its first few days of retail existence. The Limited Edition of the game has also been experiencing complaints, as the Big Daddy figures that were shipped in the package were prone to breaking during shipment.
    27. Re:Morality Shock by forgotten_my_nick · · Score: 1

      Saving the sisters gives you more power ups then killing them. Just killing them gives you a boost on the short term. Also gives you a nice cut scene and the girls return to normal humans. watching the first little sister run screaming into a corner pleading with you not to kill her is a good test to see if you have empathy or not. :)

      The game itself is ok'ish. The story and effects are very good but you are for the most part just playing a story. For example you can't die in the game. Once you realise this I was harvesting big daddys and other stuff in the level with ease. I'm only 3 levels in and I've close to maxed out all my ammo/weapons.

    28. Re:Morality Shock by Mythrix · · Score: 1

      I've not noticed anything "considerably" broken with BIg daddies. I just see them as spawning and searching out the sisters.

      Actually, the "broken Big Daddies" refers to the Big Daddy figures that came with the limited edition of the game, and not to the ones in the game itself.

      I admit I was confused too before reading the article though.
    29. Re:Morality Shock by chrish · · Score: 1

      I glued mine back on with some Krazy Glue, I didn't even consider returning it in a huge huff or whatever these bozos are doing. I mean, come on people, didn't you pay any attention during arts and crafts at school?

      --
      - chrish
  6. Put it all to the side by SilentChris · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I used to write for GameSpot. When we came across a game like this, we reviewers would tend to "lean" the score higher. Don't misunderstand me -- it's a fantastic game. My point is those rating points you see on reviews translate into sales which become big dollars, and we WANT games like this to financially successful. Games like BioShock keep the industry alive. So we would give them a little help.

    The gaming community needs to "lean" BioShock higher. We need to stop focusing on the (lack of) a rootkit. We need to stop complaining about the install limitations (in all honesty, who is installing this game on more than 5 machines anyway)? In particular, we need to really fight against those focusing on the "child killing" aspect. (Which, to be frank, is completely disturbing in-game and meant to make the player feel awful).

    We need to focus on the art of the game, and try to forget all the tangential stuff. Yes, I know, it's hard for Slashdot folks. "Rawr rawr DRM... rawr rawr install limitations... rawr rawr never going to support this company again." Just put that to the side if you can. We NEED to support games like this. otherwise it's back to horrific Madden clones and movie-licensed drek.

    1. Re:Put it all to the side by UbuntuDupe · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well, maybe you or someone can explain to me: What exactly is so great about BioShock? What makes it so much more than "just another FPS"? It got very good (and consistently good) reviews, but it's been my experience that I end up not liking games that get reviews like that, or at least "merely considering them good and not awesome". (Examples: RE4, Twilight Princess, Beyond Good and Evil, Star Ocean 3) I end up liking games that get 6-7s.

      Is BioShock just "an FPS, but better along all dimensions"? (Improved AI, graphics, story) Or is there something fundamentally revolutionary about it?

    2. Re:Put it all to the side by berashith · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I don't understand why I should buy this game if I absolutely disagree with the conduct of the distributor. I have many games that I really like ( starcraft , etc) that i continually install on new machines, or mabe delete for a time and then put back when I feel like another round. If this game is that good, maybe I will want to play it again in several years. If the distributors insist on treating me as a potential criminal for the rights to view their content, then they can fail if I have anything to say about it. The price is too high for me, so I will continue playing Madden clones or reading books, or playing instruments, or riding skateboards and bikes. I have other things I can do, and not being willing to tolerate conduct that offends me is my option. If this concept gains steam with enough people, it is not the people's fault that the industry suffers. It is the industry's fault for treating their customers as theives.

    3. Re:Put it all to the side by eddy · · Score: 5, Interesting

      > We NEED to support games like this.

      I'll support them when they support me (=us gamers). Tit for tat. I have already cooperated first, and that didn't remove the silly copy-prevention mechanisms (and please don't say the word 'publishers', I'm not an idiot). I'm all out of cooperation.

      See you in the bargain bin.

      --
      Belief is the currency of delusion.
    4. Re:Put it all to the side by ditoa · · Score: 1

      While I appreciate your view I believe it is possible to support the game while still being vocal about the negative issues surrounding it (i.e the rootkit and install limit). If we are not vocal about these things they will only become more common place and more invasive and annoying.

      I have BioShock on the 360 and it is a seriously amazing game however I am fortunate not to have to deal with the rootkit and install limit. I would never purchase this game for the PC. I would simply wait until a cracked copy hit the net and use that instead.

      Just because a game is good does not mean that you should just forget about other things that are important to you and to a lot of people the rootkit and install limitation is important.

    5. Re:Put it all to the side by the+Plums+in+us · · Score: 1

      What you say is absolutely true, IF you are first and foremost a gamer.

      I think a lot of people on slashdot, myself included, tend to be concerned with privacy and system security at least as much as being able to play the best games, if not moreso.

      I will not support a company that uses software that goes behind my back, whether you want to call it a rootkit or not. I don't care how good the game is, or if my decisions doom us all to a lifetime of Madden. You'd be right in thinking I haven't bought a lot of PC games lately; this is kind of a shame but to me it's quite simply not worth it.

      The child killing aspect is a different issue altogether, and I agree with you 100% that those focusing on it are missing the point.

    6. Re:Put it all to the side by fimbulvetr · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The story in this game struck as awesome. I've never seen a video game with this sort of story and so well executed. The play was good and the plasmid/tonic selection is so powerful it deserves to be in many future games.

      I felt many distinct emotions in this game: Fear, Surprise, Empathy, Pity, Rage, Aggression, Sadness, Regret and Shock(From the dialouge, like "Don't you fucking judge me!").

      Doom maybe had me on Fear and Surprise, but no other game has given me the spectrum above.

    7. Re:Put it all to the side by krelian · · Score: 1, Insightful

      - It is not a rootkit.

      - By saying that you would have pirated the game instead of buying it you are actually making the publishers point that a copy protection is necessary more valid.

      - The only limitation this enforces on you is to uninstall the game first before reinstalling.

      - 99% of the people who need to install the game in more than 2 machines are basically pirating it.

    8. Re:Put it all to the side by Rycross · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Theres a lot thats different about it. Its not a genre-shattering game, but it has enough creativity in enough places to deserve the credit. Setting, for one. Instead of yet-another-WW2-game, we have an underwater city set in the 1960's. That lends a lot to the atmosphere. The plot that follows is also well done.

      I don't play enough FPSes to comment on whether the actual mechanics are innovative or not, but I'll take a stab at some of the things that I found nifty. They mixed in RPG-ish character upgrades, that you can buy using Adam. This Adam is obtained through either saving or harvesting the Little Sisters, which the summary touched on. You get less if you save the sisters. Theres also the Plasmids, which are magic or psychic like abilities. You can stun people, set them aflame, freeze them, and shock them. You can do nifty things like set a person on fire, so that they jump into a pool of water to douse themselves, then shocking them while they're in the water for extra damage.

      Really, theres no one thing thats completely revolutionary about Bioshock. It just has the right settings, the right mechanics, the right plot, the right amount of tension, etc. in the right places. Its a very well put together game.

    9. Re:Put it all to the side by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So you admit to being a bullshitter and attempted to con people into buying a game. SCUMBAG.

    10. Re:Put it all to the side by IthnkImParanoid · · Score: 2, Interesting

      There is a more compelling story and atmosphere (which I'm severely understating because other posts explain it well), an rpg-lite component allowing you to enhance your character, and far more variety than the average fps: my strategy for dealing with enemies has changed completely as the game has progressed, not only based on the enemy but based on the abilities I have at the moment. It's not just a "which weapon do I use: the best one or the one I have the most ammo for." I can actually control the style to some extent.

      If you liked System Shock 2, you will like this game. If you haven't played System Shock 2, you should. If you didn't like it, I have no idea what you look for in a game.

      --
      It's nothing but crumpled porno and Ayn Rand.
    11. Re:Put it all to the side by theantipop · · Score: 1

      I'd support the game if it was possible to run on my 2 year old video card. But seeing as id, Epic, Valve and Blizzard care more about building a beautiful game that also scales well and runs on hardware that isn't bleeding edge, I think I'll continue to support them instead.

    12. Re:Put it all to the side by the+Plums+in+us · · Score: 1

      - By saying that you would have pirated the game instead of buying it you are actually making the publishers point that a copy protection is necessary more valid.


      Wow, you missed the point there. Parent is saying that he would get the cracked version of the game ONLY because he wouldn't want to deal with the copy-protection bullshit.
    13. Re:Put it all to the side by Kymri · · Score: 1

      Strangely enough, as awesome as the story was, I think it was a lot more awesome when it was in space and called System Shock 2.

      Don't get me wrong; I enjoyed Bioshock plenty when I played through it. But it left me feeling the same way I felt after watching the Star Wars prequels:

      It had been amazing and fascinating and exciting and fully of pretty images and neat fights and all that stuff ... but as soon as I thought about it after no longer being 'in the moment', I realized how much it really was 'System Shock 2' with a new skin.

      A very pretty new skin, (and a really lame 'hacking' minigame replacing the fairly quick and un-intrusive minigame in SS2), but every element in SS2 was present in Bioshock, gameplay wise. Most of the major plot points are 're-written' but otherwise pretty much the same.

      And, in my opinion, the 'moral dilemma' the player is faced with is nothing of the sort. Predictably enough, I was being good, and rescuing the girls. I was being evil the second run through (to see what happens) and very little of the story changes at all, for all practical purposes only the epilogue. And your benefit for being evil is only short-term; in the medium term you're rewarded very nearly as well for rescuing them as for being evil. The game could have stood to make the rewards for evil greater so that there was a 'cost' to being good, as was implied.

      Criticisms aside, however: Bioshock is a good game. It's engaging, enjoyable, fun, and has more atmosphere than every game currently available for the PS3 and every other game available for the 360 combined. I enjoyed it - but I'd just like to be a voice going against the trend here and voicing the opinion that it's not the best game ever: it's just way better than anything else that's come out in the last year or so.

      --
      Evolution ceases when stupidity can no longer be fatal.
    14. Re:Put it all to the side by Rycross · · Score: 1

      I don't know about that. It ran on medium-to-high settings pretty well on my year old computer. nVidia 7800 GT. The min specs say you can run it on a 6600. It was still beautiful on medium settings.

    15. Re:Put it all to the side by Xian97 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      We need to stop complaining about the install limitations (in all honesty, who is installing this game on more than 5 machines anyway)?
      The problem is that it might not be 5 machines. I installed it the other day under my profile, answering yes when it asked if I wanted to install it for all users. I activated it and played with no problems. When my 19 year old son went to play it under his profile it wanted to be activated again. So it's asking for 2 activations on the same PC. There are 3 more user accounts on that PC too, though I doubt if my wife will be interested in playing it.

      That makes we wonder, is it a per user profile or per machine activation? Why ask to install for every user on the PC and not activate it for all users? I called 2K Support and they didn't have the answer either. I can't be the only one running multiple user profiles on the same PC. Also, both of our accounts have admin privileges so it shouldn't be a permissions issue.
    16. Re:Put it all to the side by Kamots · · Score: 4, Insightful

      For me the securom installation crap is a deal-breaker.

      Without that I would have bought it following the first round of post-release reviews. I just finished putting together a new gaming system, and would love to have this game.

      However, I'm not going to put up with this crap. There's other games, they might not be quite as spiffy or have the same storyline, but they're still fun. I'll play those instead.

      I'm not interested in shelling out my cash for a game that could well turn into a paperweight (and a poor one at that) somewhere down the line when the activation server goes away. Or when I've installed for the Nth + 1 time, or whatever. When I buy a game, I want to know that that game will continue to work. I *still* periodically install MOO2 and play it... and I've had that CD for 10 years now. If MOO2 was protected like this game is I would have had to have quit playing it years and years ago.

      As for 5 installs... I've installed Oblivion around 4 times in the past month. I'll be installing it at least once or twice more in the next week or two. Why? Because I'm going through that many OS installs dealing with intermittent issues arising from hardware conflicts in my new build. (and MS is slower than hell shipping Vista) If I'd gotten BioShock, I'd be looking at around a month of intermittent gameplay, then viola, no more activations.... yay! Now I get to play phone tag!

      Screw that.

      When they provide me a product that doesn't self-destruct, I'll provide them with my cash in return.

    17. Re:Put it all to the side by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "...otherwise it's back to horrific Madden clones and movie-licensed drek."

      Not for me - I'll still be playing Wii, DS, PS2 (so many games that are cheaper and better than anything PS3/360), and on computer, well I can start with Nethack and go from there. There's enough good games out there that don't use SecuRom (which rootit or no is still wrong) that I see no reason to tolerate it just in the name of "art."

    18. Re:Put it all to the side by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Lean" Bioshock higher? NEED to support the game? Maybe you and your former colleagues should "lean" your journalistic integrity and ethical standards higher instead. Nonsense like this is why I don't trust review sites.

    19. Re:Put it all to the side by Dentaku81 · · Score: 1

      iD and Epic I can give you, but valve and blizzard? Source has a dx7 path and I have run (albeit slowly) CS:S on a Geforce 4 mx440. WoW will run on pretty much anything. I had a friend who ran it on a p3 with a geforce 3 (not very "bleeding edge" at all)

    20. Re:Put it all to the side by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Don't you fucking judge me"? What is this, Jerry Springer?

    21. Re:Put it all to the side by Swift(void) · · Score: 1

      I'm not interested in shelling out my cash for a game that could well turn into a paperweight (and a poor one at that) somewhere down the line when the activation server goes away. Or when I've installed for the Nth + 1 time, or whatever. When I buy a game, I want to know that that game will continue to work.
      From one of the linked interviews:

      Now putting this PC issue to rest. Is there anything you'd like to add that we wouldn't know to ask you or you'd like to add? There have been some concerns that the copy protection was something nobody had ever seen before, except for the online procedure, there's nothing different. There's nothing wacky going on there, at some point we'll move back from online activation. If people want to play BioShock ten years from now, they'll be able to play it. We have a commitment from 2K that that is going to happen and we'll hold them to that commitment and they're serious about it, we'll make that happen.
      Another irrational fear. While the rest of your points may hold some weight, the fear that it will become a paper weight just because it has online activation is laughable.
    22. Re:Put it all to the side by geeknado · · Score: 2, Interesting
      I wouldn't dismiss anything that's 'better along all dimensions' personally, but one thing that's definitely interesting about Bioshock relative to most other action games(not just in the FPS genre) is that there're frequently many, many possible solutions to a given problem. Since I'm a big fan of letting other game elements do my work for me, I spend a lot of time in the game sneaking around and hacking every single piece of security that I encounter. Frequently, I'll have moved along, and I'll hear the whine of a security alarm and the sound of some enemy getting killed...It's good, grim fun. Add that to the ability to lay actual mines and other traps and you may spend relatively little time actually 'shooting' in this game, depending on your playstyle.

      It's also interesting how various abilities chain together-- setting an enemy on fire with your plasmids and then shooting a heat seeking rocket at it is quite satisfying. I've played shooters where "Magic" is a part of the whole, but very few where abilities complement each other so well.

      Lastly, and a-typically for an FPS, although the plot is relatively linear(you move along and open various areas sequentially, you usually have a goal that shuttles you around to different parts of said areas), there're large side areas for exploration that have no direct purpose beyond adding tone. Frequently, there'll be a little payoff in the form of a recording from a resident of Rapture or perhaps an unusual tonic, but mostly, they're just there to add to the fun of the game. It's a decent balance...You're not as clearly pushed in a direction as you are even in a decent shooter like Half Life 2.

      Bioshock is the only game that I've played which actually inspires my spouse to sit beside me, totally enthralled as events unfold. She practically begs me to play so she can see what's going to happen next. All in all, my feeling is that this is a game that shouldn't be missed.

    23. Re:Put it all to the side by HazMathew · · Score: 1

      learn to put together a decent system and maybe you can spend more time playing the games instead of installing them.

    24. Re:Put it all to the side by MooseMuffin · · Score: 4, Informative
      This whole post is ignorant of the actual situation.

      I'm not interested in shelling out my cash for a game that could well turn into a paperweight (and a poor one at that) somewhere down the line when the activation server goes away. They have already said that this is strictly for early in the game's life cycle when its most at risk of being pirated. At some point in the future, the whole procedure will go away.

      Or when I've installed for the Nth + 1 time, or whatever. You have 5 installs. You use one when you install, you get it back when you do an uninstall. Inconvenience? Yes. A bit insulting? Yes. But it doesn't actually prevent you from installing it each of the 50 times you wipe your OS. Criticisms of copy protection as a matter of principle are entirely valid, but your specific gripes are simply not true.
    25. Re:Put it all to the side by theantipop · · Score: 1

      Reread my comments, I point to those developers as ones who make efforts to support a wide range of hardware.

    26. Re:Put it all to the side by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      You use one when you install, you get it back when you do an uninstall

      Except... you don't. The part that's supposed to unregister your install when you uninstall doesn't work. There's no communication with the 2K servers when you uninstall, so the key remains active as far as they are concerned.

      Nor does it take into account incidents where you *can't* cleanly uninstall (dead harddrive, for instance)

      It's all well and good for them to promise to remove the annoying copy-protection "sometime in the future", but a) whether they actually do so is still up in the air, and b) it still doesn't help paying customers being treated like crooks NOW.

    27. Re:Put it all to the side by dumbo11 · · Score: 1

      But it doesn't actually prevent you from installing it each of the 50 times you wipe your OS. Firstly, this doesn't work if your connection is down/not available when you uninstall (if anyone could explain how that could ever work, then I'd love to hear it - because logically it doesn't, and according to their forums that's exactly what happens).

      Secondly, imagine this becomes popular... you uninstall windows, but first uninstall 10 games? given the size of AAA games, that's maybe 30 minutes to an hour of uninstalling? and if something goes wrong, you instead have to phone up to 10 different helplines and wait in queues to re-enable all the games... maybe have to scan in your original disk and email the image to the company involved and then wait/hope they get back???

      This isn't "bad" it's [bleeping] insane. And that's ignoring the point that people tend to reinstall windows when something goes 'bad' - the odds of being able to uninstall in those circumstances really isn't so great.

      Still, kudos to whichever securom salesman managed to sell someone this screwed up concept.. I guess he forgot to mention the "your tech support/call center costs worldwide are going to go through the roof until you remove this piece-of-junk from the game".
    28. Re:Put it all to the side by BravoZuluM · · Score: 1

      Amen to this. Developers have been doing this crap since 1980. They are so paranoid that people are going to steal their games. Enough already. Those who copy the game weren't going to buy it from you anyway.

      Now, I am a customer who does buy games. I bought Half Life and about 4 sequels to it (blue shift...ect) . I recently moved from the city to the country. Wouldn't you know it, my kids and I can't play the games because they can't be authenticated through an internet we don't have. I've already bought the games. They are on cds but I can't use them. I've considered finding a lawyer who might be willing to do a class action.

      I won't be buying any games from anyone who engages in this type of activity. Valve and anyone else thinking about distributing through Steam, your market is smaller. So now you won't get my money or they guy who was going to copy it from you anyway. So, no Bioshock.

      If I'm feeling this way, others are feeling this way too.

    29. Re:Put it all to the side by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wouldn't you know it, my kids and I can't play the games because they can't be authenticated through an internet we don't have. I've already bought the games. They are on cds but I can't use them. Dude, WTF? The original pre-Steam releases (and HL, OpFor and Blue Shift *are* pre-Steam) *do not* need online authentication. Just install them and play. If you patch them into Steam, OK, but you don't have to do that. And in any case there's a clear procedure for setting up Steam for off-line mode.
    30. Re:Put it all to the side by roguenine19 · · Score: 1

      Bioshock's activation is much freer than Steam's. It only needs to be done once, and there is an alternate version that involves you emailing your CD key and a text string to the DRM company. They then email you back another text string to input into the box. It took about an hour to get a reply, but after that I was good to go. I haven't tested it yet, but I would presume that this code they gave me would work on another machine, so it's basically like having another CD key.

    31. Re:Put it all to the side by Kamots · · Score: 1

      And I'm sure that you research which factory your (existing) monitors come from and what version of the (non-upgradable) firmware they have when you're putting together a new system.

      Gotta love trolls :)

    32. Re:Put it all to the side by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      We need to stop focusing on the (lack of) a rootkit. ... We need to focus on the art of the game, and try to forget all the tangential stuff.

      So it's ok to compromise a system's security for the sake of a good game? Thanks for setting my priorities straight, I guess I just realize why ID stealers are so popular and successful. All you gotta do is bundle something the user wants and...

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    33. Re:Put it all to the side by Kamots · · Score: 1

      And... you completely ignored the I'd have run through 5 activations within the first month part of it.

      Now, yes, I could probably manage to keep the thing working, if I remembered to uninstall the game before I formatted (as if formatting and reinstalling wasn't annoying enough...) and 2k might even follow through on thier promise to untimebomb it.

      Short answer is I don't really care. I don't want to put up with that crap, much less support it. It's the same reason I've only bought music from independent labels and artists for the last 5-7 years. If they want my business they can damn well treat me with respect. Until then I'll spend my money elsewhere. Like on Space Empires V.

    34. Re:Put it all to the side by GamblerZG · · Score: 1

      I used to write for GameSpot. When we came across a game like this, we reviewers would tend to "lean" the score higher. ...
      Games like BioShock keep the industry alive. So we would give them a little help. ...
      We need to stop focusing on the [issues].

      That is why I don't read GameSpot, IGN, GameSpy, etc. I want to read a magazine, not a goddamn PR paper that is written simply to keep the industry alive.
    35. Re:Put it all to the side by Monsieur+Canard · · Score: 1

      I've got a 6800 helping out a Pentium-D dual core and it runs pretty well. I had to turn down a couple of settings (the extra-glossy shader thingy really caused frame skipping) but it's running amazingly well. My only beef was having to upgrade my drivers to a "Bioshock-ready" set of betas - but apart from that it's been sweet.

      --
      He took a duck to the face at 250 knots.
    36. Re:Put it all to the side by prockcore · · Score: 1

      Those who copy the game weren't going to buy it from you anyway.


      They should just stop making PC games altogether. The 360 version of bioshock is going to outsell the PC version 5 to 1. Why spend all that time and effort?
    37. Re:Put it all to the side by Merk · · Score: 1

      - It is not a rootkit.

      One of the key features of a rootkit is to hide files, not just from the user, but from the OS. This software does just this. It doesn't provide administrator access to the system, but it makes it much easier to hide that sort of thing. From what I've seen, it's much easier to get administrator privileges on a typical Windows system than it is to hide files. So this isn't a full rootkit, but it's the harder half of one.

      - By saying that you would have pirated the game instead of buying it you are actually making the publishers point that a copy protection is necessary more valid.

      No, because he said that he would have pirated it *because* of the invasive "copy protection", and that the copy protection is ineffective against downloading a cracked copy. From what I've heard, it is effective against installing a legitimate copy on multiple machines at the same time. If the game *didn't* have protection against that and someone had said "I'll just install it on my friend's machine so he doesn't have to buy it", that would be an argument for the type of copy protection used here.

    38. Re:Put it all to the side by Anonymous+Cow+herd · · Score: 1

      Is BioShock just "an FPS, but better along all dimensions"? (Improved AI, graphics, story) Or is there something fundamentally revolutionary about it? Well... as far as categorizing, I'd say it was a nice balance between FPS, survival horror genre with some puzzle/RPG elements thrown in. Revolutionary? No, not really. Really just a great game that fuses several genres, resulting game is more than the sum of it's parts. I'd recommend it in a heartbeat.
      --
      Ita erat quando hic adveni.
    39. Re:Put it all to the side by DeepHurtn! · · Score: 1
      Yes, because corporate spokespeople have never been known to make commitments they're not really prepared to keep. Let alone flat out lie straight to your face. No sirree.

      Now, to other matters, I have this bridge in Brooklyn I think you may be *very* interested in...

    40. Re:Put it all to the side by scribblej · · Score: 1

      I didn't like System Shock 2.

      You can clear out an entire area of bad guys and KNOW it's cleared; there's NO ONE there, for sure, you can walk around and see they are all gone, and there is no other way in.

      Then you set off an alarm and the place is CRAWLING with them. Where did they come from? Who the fuck knows. Totally destroyed the game for me.

    41. Re:Put it all to the side by Devir · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Doom left me feeling Despair. They tried to be so horrible and grotesque that it just wasn't scary or controversial. There was little believability in the game. It was just a shooter showing off an amazing game engine.

      Quake 4 came out a little later and I bought it, but played it a few months later. It was far better than Doom in many ways. You felt the horrors of these aliens capturing people and converting them to mindless soldiers through painful methods. Still not horrifying or engaging of a story.

      Vampire the Masquerade was older than Doom and Quake, yet the scenes and imagery struck me a lot harder. The one scene with the blood king or whoever you had to fight in that pit of blood and severed bodies. You could almost smell it. The imagery was used strategically and not overkill as it was in Doom. It left you in the game wondering what else you'll see, and not wanting to go on, but having to so you can stop the images.

      Bioshock brings you forward into a new light. The story is very real. It's engaging and drawing, you want to go on. You want to turn each corner to see what is out there and what you'll find. THe journals are interesting and I listen to them. THe dead bodies you may find are tastefully done to not overkill. They serve some emotional purpose. Like the couple who died in each others arms. I just stopped there to look at them, and threir journal crying over the disfigurment the doc did to their daughter. It was troubling and disturbing. You WANTED to find who did it and set him on fire. If anything, ujst to give their spirits rest.

      People who dont want to play this game because of copy protection I can understand. If it were a mediocre game I'd fully understand. X3 had a wretched copy protection scheme and was an "ok' game. Easily skipped and wont be missed. Bioshock is not so easily ignored.

      In the end of it all. I'm probably 45% done playing Bioshock and I'm still very much engaged in it's story. When I need a break, I play Persona 3, which is also hard to pass up.

      I've played countless games in my life. Bioshock will be added to the "always remember" category.

    42. Re:Put it all to the side by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You hit the nail on the head with the "Inconvenient? Yes.. A bit insulting? Yes."
      Honestly, that isn't the way to make, or keep customers. The game is a service, something you buy with hard earned money. They are supposed to make their customers feel as though they're valuable (otherwise, they'll slowly get edged out by someone who 'gets it').
      Would you go to a fantastic restaurant, if you thought the waiters would say things like "I do believe sir's hair has been cut by a deranged baboon", and make sure that the chair was nailed about three feet away from the table.
      That would be in the realms of inconvenient, and a bit insulting.
      So, they make great food.. But it'll put off a huge amount of their potential customers.
      Being nice, and letting someone get away with snaffling an extra after dinner mint or two won't break the bank. However, upsetting a large amount of people (to the point of losing repeat or potential custom) is a really bad move.
      I was looking forward to BioShock. Looks great, sounds fun.. But I honestly don't trust anyone who sells me a '5 install only" deal. And yes, I buy all my own games, music, entertainment or whatever. No I have no pirated copies.
      I don't need to understand that I 'may' be allowed to reinstall later in the lifespan of the game (if the servers are still around, or an official patch is still available to 'cure' the broken by design install). I want something that provides a seamless service; I get the disk, I pop the disk in the drive. I run an install program, and the game starts (with maybe a little config work to tweak the setup to best get the sound/vid levels that I want)..
      If I uninstall and reinstall later, I want to do so. I've still got old games going back near 17 years on PC that I'll tinker with and see if they work in emulation now and then, just to see if they're as fun as I remember.. And yes, most of them are.
      A lot of people who aren't up in arms about this are too young to remember playing the games protected by manuals/keys/whatever, and having the manual fall apart, a key get lost, or something go wrong, so that when you feel like playing it years down the line, you've got the disk, but no working game.. It's so frustrating..
      I religiously keep keys with CDs now.. But having something like this, so far beyond your control?
      Nah, they're not getting my money until it's fixed and working for the long term.

    43. Re:Put it all to the side by notea42 · · Score: 1

      They've stated that when you uninstall the game, it gives you back the one usage that installation was occupying. Thus, you could uninstall from your PC and install on your laptop, and it wouldn't count against your total. This still leaves the loophole when a harddrive crashes or you have to wipe for some other reason, but it's not as bad as it sounds.

    44. Re:Put it all to the side by ampathee · · Score: 1

      What about "fanatical devotion to the Pope"?

    45. Re:Put it all to the side by enc0der · · Score: 1

      This game is the first game since Half-Life I that REALLY got me into the game. HLI was AMAZING when it came out, way better than any FPS before it. The fact that someone could even surpass that is just awesome.

      The one thing HFI had that I just haven't seen in ANY game since was the feeling of the AI. The way they'd hunt me as a team. Sure, lots of games have that, but none have ever felt so real!

      :)

      Bioshock so far I feel is just different in that regard, not that it is lacking. The residents are crazy so of course they aren't going to act in any sort of intelligent strategic fashion. Now I just want to go home and play some more!!!!

    46. Re:Put it all to the side by geekoid · · Score: 1

      "So we would give them a little help."

      Sadly, that in no way helps the industry, and tends to counter market momentum.

      "We need to stop complaining about the install limitation"

      no, we need to complain louder. I'm not going to invest my dollars in an industry that limits what I do with my legally purchased product through coercion.

      "n all honesty, who is installing this game on more than 5 machines anyway"
      who the fuck knows, and why the fuck does it matter? You missed the point.

      "We need to focus on the art of the game, and try to forget all the tangential stuff. "
      No. I won't let myself be abused for a game.

      I would rather have free don to do what I want with drek, then to be control for something of higher quality.
      Also, I would rather work hard on me feet, then live a life of comfort on my knees.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    47. Re:Put it all to the side by Kelbear · · Score: 1

      The main difference here is that you're accepting the DRM upfront on the 360. While on the PC you're getting the DRM afterwards, and AFTER the money is paid.

      There's both an important distinction, and an issue of perspective at play.

    48. Re:Put it all to the side by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You have 5 installs. You use one when you install, you get it back when you do an uninstall. Inconvenience? Yes. A bit insulting? Yes. But it doesn't actually prevent you from installing it each of the 50 times you wipe your OS. Criticisms of copy protection as a matter of principle are entirely valid, but your specific gripes are simply not true. No, they are, Moose, since uninstalling the game doesn't give you back those installs.

      http://www.pcgamer.com/ They did not, however, return my initial two activations to the account (it seems they never actually had the ability to do that, contrary to what they'd initially told us), which left me with three.

    49. Re:Put it all to the side by BravoZuluM · · Score: 1

      I was on DSL. Went away from DSL. They were attached to STEAM because that is how you get the updates. When my kids comes to me and tell me that his game isn't working, why do I have to figure how to get the game to work? Uninstall the stuff and roll back to the orginal without Steam? I give up the updates and the new artwork. Simple solution, any game that requires an authentication system for the stuff I bought is out. I don't use XP or Vista. I use a Mac. It doesn't threaten me with system declination if I don't authenticate because my environment changed.

      WTF to your WTF?

    50. Re:Put it all to the side by BravoZuluM · · Score: 1

      This is exactly correct. I will buy Bioshock because I have the 360. Halo 3, again 360.

      For me, I'm not going to be buying PC games unless there is an EXTREMELY compelling reason to do so. I guess the games manufactures can claim this as a victory as they can control the proliferation of thier products...or can they? Hackers rip this stuff apart in no time. IT is a waste of effort and only annoys your paying customers.

      Game producers: I am your perfect demographic market. I'm a middle age gamer with lots of disposable income with kids. You make it hard for me to purchase your games by locking them up so that your game authorisation looks like'x XP or Vistas authentication, you will not be getting my $.

    51. Re:Put it all to the side by krelian · · Score: 1

      He states that because of the protection annoyance he will not buy the game but pirate it instead. How is this different than someone pirating a game because it costs money? The mere fact that any clown feels that he has the right to decide if he will buy or pirate a game is ridiculous.

    52. Re:Put it all to the side by ChaosDiscord · · Score: 1

      At some point in the future, the whole procedure will go away.

      Oh, well, gosh, we've got their promise. I'm sure there is absolutely no chance they'll reneg on that, even though if they do reneg in few years almost no one will notice because the game is so old.

      If they'd like to make that promise in writing (say, in the EULA I have to agree to), I might take it more seriously, especially if it includes a penalty cause for failure on their part.

      Even if they deliver this patch, will they be shipping it to me for free on a pressed CD? Or do I need to download it myself and make my own backup, then occasionally reburn the backup because CD-Rs have a shorter lifespan than good pressed CDs? (Not making a backup would be stupid, because I can't be sure if I'll be able to get a copy in 10 years.) Part of the reason I prefer buying games on disk is that the disk acts as a long term archival copy. Part of why I resent Half-Life 2 is that if I want a long term archival copy of the a game I bought at retail, I have to burn several CDs of the unlocked game. (A sad wart on an otherwise brilliant game.)

      You have 5 installs. You use one when you install, you get it back when you do an uninstall. Inconvenience? Yes. A bit insulting? Yes. But it doesn't actually prevent you from installing it each of the 50 times you wipe your OS.

      It does if you're wiping your OS because it no longer boots, so you have no way to uninstall it. It does if you're wiping your OS because the networking is totally screwed, so the uninstall license returner won't work. It does if I wipe my system without thinking about, erroneously thinking "I've got all the original media, so I can just reinstall everything. Why waste my time uninstalling stuff if I'm just going to wipe it?" It does if the game is installed on a system you share with someone less computer literate (or perhaps used to Mac OS, where the idioms are different), who thinks that deleting the program's directory is a fine way to uninstall it and free up some space for another game.

      The activation system sucks. For end users it's all bad. The best you can say (like for most DRM) is, "Most users won't notice it." That's crap and they deserve to be called on it.

    53. Re:Put it all to the side by ChaosDiscord · · Score: 1

      You have 5 installs. You use one when you install, you get it back when you do an uninstall.

      I forgot. This is, of course, simply wrong. If I want to uninstall today, I don't get the license back, because the tool to the return a license doesn't exist. The "revoke" application is coming, but isn't here.

    54. Re:Put it all to the side by justin12345 · · Score: 1

      Bioshock is the only game that I've played which actually inspires my spouse to sit beside me, totally enthralled as events unfold. She practically begs me to play so she can see what's going to happen next. All in all, my feeling is that this is a game that shouldn't be missed.

      This is the reason I wish the game had a co-op mode. My g/f likes to watch too, but usually she would rather play along.

      --
      Cool art gallery, if you're into that sort of thing.
    55. Re:Put it all to the side by Schnapple · · Score: 1

      Please explain this comment further. In all my years of PC using and PC gaming I've never had a monitor give me problems (I didn't even know they had firmware) much less to the extent that they caused me to reformat my hard drive every month.

      I'm not saying you're doing something wrong, I've just honestly never heard of such a thing before.

    56. Re:Put it all to the side by Breakfast+Pants · · Score: 1

      As long as they don't have DRM, sign me up!

      --

      --

      WHO ATE MY BREAKFAST PANTS?
    57. Re:Put it all to the side by drew · · Score: 1

      Do you uninstall all of your applications and games when you wipe your hard drive? Sounds like a ridiculous assumption to me.

      Personally, I'm a bit hesitant to install any new games with heavy content protection after I got bit by it on Knights of the Old Republic II. In (I believe) their latest patch, they upgraded the SecuROM software, and from that point on, the game crashes immediately any time I try to run it. The only way I've been able to get it to work again is with a nocd hack that I downloaded off the internet. The nocd hack is the previous version of the executable, though, and I'm still not 100% convinced it doesn't carry any rogue nastyware with it.

      --
      If I don't put anything here, will anyone recognize me anymore?
    58. Re:Put it all to the side by Breakfast+Pants · · Score: 1

      >They have already said that this is strictly for early in the game's life cycle when its most at risk of being pirated. At some point in the future, the whole procedure will go away.

      So what? The box says "online activation required". They are under no obligation to waive this requirement at a later date, so why should we trust them on their non-binding word? Why didn't they put that on the box?

      --

      --

      WHO ATE MY BREAKFAST PANTS?
    59. Re:Put it all to the side by vimh42 · · Score: 1

      Heh heh. So 2K once again gives you a "moral" choice. Do you not buy the game because of some simple restrictions put forth by the distributor? Or do you go and buy the game and enjoy the wonderfully crafted game that the developer has created. Will you support the artist?

      And um, as far the publishers go, are you really going to say boohoo on 2K for for what they have done with activation and then turn around a play Madden which is published by EA? Are you nuts? I hope you used Madden strictly in the sense of clone games.

    60. Re:Put it all to the side by pjeremyh · · Score: 1

      >So what? The box says "online activation required". They are under no obligation to waive this requirement at a later date, so why should we trust them on their non-binding word? Why didn't they put that on the box? And I guess they have an amazing way of updating the DVD with a new version? what do you think? Fine they might put a patch on the net, but you're left with an install DVD that at some stage in the future will cease to 'install' because the authorisation server will no longer be there. So to get a working install of Bioshock you'll need your original DVD *and* some downloaded patch - that's bullshit - I want my retail DVD to work forever by itself.

    61. Re:Put it all to the side by Paradigm_Complex · · Score: 1

      That's like praising an artist for a great painting, and ignoring the fact that the red "paint" came from strangled puppies. No, the DRM stuff isn't quite that bad, but its most definitely enough for me to wish the community to "lean" BioShock LOWER. There's reasons many /.'ers have issues with DRM, it is not something we randomly chose to dislike. (Although it was promised this will change,) at the moment should 2K go under we'll have no way to install Bioshock anymore (without cracking it). System Shock 2 was made by Irrational Games (which were absorbed into 2K) and Looking Glass Studios which went out of business. Had SS2 had similar DRM to what Bioshock has, as soon as LGS went under so would any (non-cracking) way of installing it. So long as there's bullshit like this, I won't give 2K a penny. It's a shame, but I'm willing to let this game go on principle in hopes that future (legally-purchased) games will actually allow me to use them unfettered. The most ironic part of all this is that I wouldn't feel nearly as bad acquiring this game illegally, where I'd the kind of access to it I feel as a consumer I should.

      --
      "A witty saying proves nothing." - Voltaire
    62. Re:Put it all to the side by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      From one of the linked interviews:

      If people want to play BioShock ten years from now, they'll be able to play it.
      Thanks to the use of Directx I'd say there's a much greater chance the game won't be playable 10 years from now unless you use a 10 year old system/windows version. If I've learned anything from my years of gaming on win98-XP, it's that older (directx)games choke on new directx versions more often than not. They usually run, but with fuct/distorted/not_rendered_properly graphics.

      As someone who thinks Deus Ex is among the top 3 greatest games ever(if the top 1), I really really want to play BioShock - but at the same time I feel like I should just not bother and stick to supporting developers who create a product that doesn't reinforce the same old use M$ or get fucked paradigm (or perhaps more aptly "use M$ and get fucked, eventually")

      Using Directx almost guarantees that at some point in the not-so-distant future, nobody will be able to play your game anymore. They should put a warning label on the box: "Warning! This game may cease to be compatible with anything before you cease to have interest in playing it."
    63. Re:Put it all to the side by Kamots · · Score: 1

      Well, I've got 2 samsung 204Bs. Due to needing to RMA one a year ago, I've got two with differing firmware (you can tell that it's different because when you get deep enough into one of the color selection menu's there's some slight differences).

      Anyways, the new system that I was putting together I wound up having a situation where one monitor was intermittently going blank, then coming back after anywhere from a few tenths of a second to a few seconds. It would have period where it would be doing this every 2-10 seconds or so for up to 5 minutes... then it'd be fine for 5 minutes ot a few hours. When it was doing this, I would sometimes see pixel noise (indicative of borderline a signal) Annoying part is that the monitor worked perfectly when hooked up to my old system.

      Behavior remained the same despite switching which monitor was hooked up to which DVI port, despite OS, despite drivers, etc, etc.

      Did a lot of googling, and eventually (a few weeks later) discovered that for a short period that there were some 204Bs made that didn't get along with newer NVIDIA cards, and that Samsung should RMA it with no problem. I just tried to hunt up the info again, but couldn't hit the exact search that found it the first time. I've got it bookmarked on another system. I'll try to remember to post it later.

      Anyways, I was trying to sort that out along with my motherboard and my ram not getting along. Took me a while to seperate symptoms and diagnose that the ram was causing the other stuff. (even though the ram would run memtest for 10+ hours no probs... XD)

      Add on top of that MS taking 3-4 weeks to ship Vista... and we've got the next two installs... me installing the 32 bit flavor to play with while I wait for the 64 bit one to arrive.... whee!

    64. Re:Put it all to the side by Spikeles · · Score: 1

      You know its funny. Here you are complaining about Bioshock's DRM/authentication mechanism and copyright, and yet.. you are buying the 360 version. You do realize that the XBOX 360(and every other console) is just one big hardware copyright protection mechanism don't you?

      --
      I don't need to test my programs.. I have an error correcting modem.
    65. Re:Put it all to the side by Spikeles · · Score: 1

      Please please do yourself a favour if you can, and get rid of your Pentium-D. I had one and upgraded to a E6600, it's not just a small improvement, it's a HUGE one.

      --
      I don't need to test my programs.. I have an error correcting modem.
    66. Re:Put it all to the side by Spikeles · · Score: 1

      You forget they are releasing a tool that will RESET all your activations if you forget to un-install it.

      --
      I don't need to test my programs.. I have an error correcting modem.
    67. Re:Put it all to the side by Simulant · · Score: 1
      I have less problem with the key activation than I have with the fact that they still require the damn CD in the drive. That's just adding insult to injury. It would be easier to swallow activation if they at least got rid of that requirement.

      However it's not that bad. No real rootkit, no services. Just a key, reg entries, and activation server, much like many of us have accepted in multiplayer FPS games for years. And a 'no CD' crack should appear soon.

      I had no installation problems and I think Y2K has responded remarkably well to the gaming community.

      They've promised to remove the DRM entirely, eventually, something ID started and which all game publishers should consider.

      I may actually be able to live with this type of DRM on games.

    68. Re:Put it all to the side by Kamots · · Score: 1

      And... you know why?

      You know why they increased the number of activations from 2 to 5?

      Because people are standing up and saying that we're not going to buy it the way it is. 2k is busy trying to figure out how little they can change it and make people happy.

      Perhaps enough of the naysayers will be happy with the steps 2k has taken. I can't speak for the others... but so far I'm not. Maybe my reaction stems from the fact that they're treating thier customers like paroled criminals. Doesn't really matter, I just know I'm not supporting that behavior. *shrug*

    69. Re:Put it all to the side by geeknado · · Score: 1
      Yeah, I've found that most of the games she actually enjoys on the console don't really have a multiplayer option. Still, better a great single player experience than having everything with everything done in mediocre fashion.

      The whole 'backseat playing' bit is pretty amusing, though. "Hit B! Hit B! You're going to die hit, aaaa, B!!!!!"

    70. Re:Put it all to the side by StikyPad · · Score: 1

      Eh.. I got through about 5 minutes of BioShock, and I wasn't compelled to continue.. at least not yet. (Okay, 5 minutes is probably an underestimate.. I got to the part where I'm trying to find the doctor. The point is, I played it once, and haven't felt the urge to continue.) For example, I actually watched the same 30 minute cable news loop 3 times just to kill time before bed last night, when I could easily have played BioShock.

      Personally, I don't want stories in games. I never have been (and probably never will be) empathetic to a construct of a game, and as such, I can never find the story compelling. I can keep the suspension of disbelief active during a cartoon, or a CGI movie, but something about playing a game just breaks that illusion for me. It could be actually controlling the main character, who rarely speaks in most games, and when he does, almost never says the things I would say. Or it could be analyzing the never-changing patterns of AI behavior, which is typically the objective, or at least a requirement -- the constant reminder that you're dealing with a limited, pre-programmed response set. The only thing that interests me in a game is the gameplay, and the gameplay for BioShock is typical FPS, at least from what I experienced.

      Without suspension of disbelief, stories create a problem: I don't care about the results of my choice beyond how it will affect the gameplay, and there's almost no way of knowing that ahead of time, barring spoilers. I'm not sure what's worse, when the consequences are trivial, or when they're significant. In the former case, it's simply annoying that I was presented with the choice, such as that in Marvel Superheroes (or whatever it was called) where you're forced to choose which character to save, and which to let die. When the consequences are grave, such as old text adventures where making a wrong turn could mean Game Over, it can be deeply frustrating (though that's largely been offset by the Save Game function).

      If there's going to be a story, I want it to be completely linear. Choices are not going to make me want to replay a game -- enduring hours of the same just to find out what small changes might happen -- and "nonlinear" storylines are nothing but a vague approximation, with current technology at least. E.g., you can find the candlestick first, or Colonel Mustard, but you must find both.* You can save the prisoner, or let him die, but it just changes the end movie and/or what weapons you get. Honestly, who cares? (Rhetorical.. I'm sure some people do, and I don't mean to belittle them; I'm just expressing my opinion). Just give me access to the entire game in one go-through so I can enjoy the gameplay. Furthermore, I find linearity to be essential for coherency and goals. You can't play C&C and suddenly defect to the other side, and then, surprise! you didn't really defect. Take that Nod! Current technology (not to mention the programmers themselves) just can't deal with a realistic range of possible actions that even the most unimaginative minds could conceive. And that is true open-ended gameplay, not whether to use a sniper rifle or a hand grenade, and it's fraught with difficulties, not the least of which is "What is the endgame scenario?" So let's admit that it's an impossibility and focus on quality linear plots.

      * Like completing missions in GTA. Sure, you could just run around causing mayhem, but that gets old very quickly.

    71. Re:Put it all to the side by Deliveranc3 · · Score: 1

      Sorry, if I format I will still have 5 installs? That sounds like a lie :(

      I wonder how long it will be until someone wants to go back and play a classic game and can't because of something like this, it's already happened with other games for example Bane of the Cosmic Forge (Wizardry 6)...

    72. Re:Put it all to the side by totally+bogus+dude · · Score: 1

      He states that because of the protection annoyance he will not buy the game but pirate it instead. How is this different than someone pirating a game because it costs money?

      Did you actually read what you wrote? They're different because they're different things!

      He stated that the reason he will not buy the game is due to the copy protection. That is, the copy protection itself is what is ensuring he will NOT buy the game. That's very different to "I won't buy the game because it costs money". That says, "I would have (or, I may have) bought the game if it didn't have this copy protection on it."

      So they're different because, even though both attitudes result in a lost sale, they reflect different reasons for losing the sale. Selling the game at half the normal price likely would increase sales from some of the people who don't buy it due to the cost, but will make no difference to someone who's not buying it because of the additional, unwanted payload.

      Using these copy protection mechanisms actually costs publishers money (licensing, implementation, and support costs) so it's very important they can gauge not only how many extra sales it makes them (from people who would've pirated it if it was easier to do so), but how many sales these schemes cost them. It doesn't make a great deal of sense to spend money implementing features that reduce your sales. Like many things, it's a balancing act, and at the moment it seems clear to come out in favour of copy protection. But it's also clear that there are people who have an issue with more invasive DRM methods, and that's something that needs to be factored in to the business decision.

      The mere fact that any clown feels that he has the right to decide if he will buy or pirate a game is ridiculous.

      Fair point, though it's not necessarily that simple. I'm somewhat interested in this game, but I don't want DRM services running on my machine, so more than likely what's going to happen is that I'll pirate it (when a crack becomes available) and try it out. If it turns out like all the other overyhyped FPS games, then I'll uninstall it and not buy it (much the same as would happen if I tried the demo, except without the DRM). If I like it, I'll buy it but not install it from this "legitimate" source. Thus, the publisher will sell a copy, and I'll get to enjoy the game sans DRM.

      Without piracy as an option -- I'd just skip it. It's just a game, after all; though it might be a very good game.

      So basically, it can be seen as executing my right to ignore the game completely -- not buy it, not even try the demo -- but with at least the potential for a sale. I suspect this will grate with your moral compass: they certainly have the right to dictate the exact terms by which I may consume their media, and my only right is to choose either to accept those terms or not consume the media at all. My moral compass is okay with it, because I know that a) I won't knowingly install mysterious DRM stuff on my computer, which rules out the demo version and b) I won't drop $80 on a game I've never played.

    73. Re:Put it all to the side by toddhunter · · Score: 1

      And you do realise that your PC isn't a big hardware copyright protection mechanism? The point is that there are several organisations that would like to make it one.

    74. Re:Put it all to the side by HardCorePawn · · Score: 1

      You do realize that the XBOX 360(and every other console) is just one big hardware copyright protection mechanism don't you?

      I think he is complaining not so much about the mechanism itself, but the way it is implemented. So while your statement is correct, consoles are effectively copyright protection that 'Just Works'(tm)... ie. you put the disc in and go...

      it does not require you to enter CDKeys, or the 3rd word of the 5th paragraph on page 37 of the manual... additionally, it does not fall over if your internet is temporarily out or if the company's server takes a dive... you can take you disc to your mates house and know that you can put it in his console and it will work

      If the copy protection for PC's was 'invisible' no-one would care... unfortunately, due to the 'open' nature of PC's, I do not see this happening anytime soon.

    75. Re:Put it all to the side by Matrix2110 · · Score: 1

      ...It just has the right settings, the right mechanics, the right plot, the right amount of tension, etc. in the right places. Its a very well put together game...

      This why it's revolutionary.

    76. Re:Put it all to the side by prionic6 · · Score: 1

      And what happens when this "DRM company" goes out of business or decides it can no longer service that particular game?

    77. Re:Put it all to the side by oracle128 · · Score: 0

      The install limit is 5x5. That is, you can install the game on 5 different machines (or, an existing machine that's been upgraded significantly to be considered a new machine) - previously 2, and on each of those machines, you can install it 5 times - previously 3.

      It's also explained here:
      http://tinyurl.com/24xwcs

    78. Re:Put it all to the side by damncrackmonkey · · Score: 1

      maybe if you had played for more than a few minutes, you would have found the machines that spawn them. then you might have thought about how that level of technology existed in the game world and that it makes quite a bit of sense that an ai trying to kill you would make full use of that ability to hunt you down when you are located with a security camera

    79. Re:Put it all to the side by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are 3 more user accounts on that PC too, though I doubt if my wife will be interested in playing it. Why? Is your wife stupid? Does she only play kitchen games? Like fry-the-egg-in-the-pan-real-fast?
    80. Re:Put it all to the side by Perky_Goth · · Score: 1
    81. Re:Put it all to the side by Schnapple · · Score: 1

      Fascinating, thanks. Truly a unique situation.

      So yeah in that case I can see why you'd be hesitant to install any "dial home" sorts of software. However, in fairness to BioShock, you can still call up SecureROM and get a new activation dealie. Yeah I know you shouldn't have to but it doesn't sound like you're the type to let something like this get in the way...

    82. Re:Put it all to the side by nikanj · · Score: 1

      Normal Users(TM) usually reinstall when the computer stops booting. Good luck uninstalling at that point. And if this trend continues we'll soon have to uninstall every piece of software one-by-one before nuking an install

    83. Re:Put it all to the side by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mention Epic even though Bioshock uses Epics Unreal Engine 3.0 for the game. Now I remember when Unreal Engine 3.0 was first shown publicly a few years ago on the then new GeForce 6800 Ultra. What stuck out in my mind was the saying that video card was the first to run the engine at 20fps or greater. However I do realize that with time come optimizations and now we have faster cpus to feed the engine. Regardless the games box says it will run on a DirectX 9.0c class card such as a 6600 which is over 2 years old.

      Basically I'm just saying part of Bioshocks requirements can be linked to using the Unreal Engine 3 from Epic while at the same time showing it does support 2+ year old hardware.

    84. Re:Put it all to the side by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      > I won't be buying any games from anyone who engages in this type of activity. Valve and anyone else thinking about distributing through Steam, your market is smaller. So now you won't get my money or they guy who was going to copy it from you anyway. So, no Bioshock.

      I'm also a customer who buys games. There was never a Steam-free HL2. So I never bought it. I regret missing a good gaming experience, but I don't regret not having Steam or other DRMware on my rig. The day Valve releases a leigitmate patch to de-Steamize HL2 - even if I have to wait a couple more years for them to fail or be bought out by someone else - is the day I buy it.

    85. Re:Put it all to the side by berashith · · Score: 1

      moral choice :) , thats pretty funny .

      yes, the Madden reference was only as a response to the parent. I cant recall the last time I fired up any thing from EA. Maybe pre-Sega Saturn ?

    86. Re:Put it all to the side by berashith · · Score: 1

      This is exactly correct. If I pay for the CD , why should it not work? Beyond the ability to share or lend to a friend, These things stop the game from just working for the person who actually paid for it. It seems that everything I purchase that isn't an online MMO type game is so screwed up that it refuses to run unless I hunt down every process on the box to proove to the game that I am not trying to make a copy. My intention is to play the game, so this is annoying. I end up downloading no-cd cracks every time, and I am tired of it.

      When I can put in the disk, install the game, and "just play", then I will give my money for their efforts. Until then...

    87. Re:Put it all to the side by mink · · Score: 1

      Back in the 80's when 5-1/4 inch disks were the standard, Gunship came out and had a unique copy protection. It had a security key that was required to run the game. There were 5 keys (allowed 5 installs). Each time you did an install, it moved a key from the disk to the HDD of the machine you ran it on (ST225, my chirpy little friend). You could also uninstall it and it would put the key back onto the floppy disk (some special sector thingy).

      Maybe we need to call up the folks at SecureRom and remind them how easily programs like COPYIIPC worked around this stuff back then. I always made two backup copies of games so I could play from one set, have a backup, and have the original. If you made your copy of this game before you installed it the new copy hd all 5 installs available. They should ust stick with the serial numbers. But since they refuse to learn from the past I guess they will just repeat it.

      I am amazed this kind of copy protection got the go ahead because I think it opens everyone involved to IMO some liability. I did not sign a lease contract or any kind of agreement that informed me to expect anything but a normal installable game.

      On the bright side it isn't starforce. Real shame about trackmania, I almost bought it until I found out.

      --
      Well I've wrestled with reality for thirty five years doctor, and I'm happy to say I finally won out over it.
    88. Re:Put it all to the side by mink · · Score: 1

      I've had no problem playing Bane off my Wizardry archives CD. What is the problem exactly?

      --
      Well I've wrestled with reality for thirty five years doctor, and I'm happy to say I finally won out over it.
  7. Filtering by JCSoRocks · · Score: 1

    Journalist / Politician types ability to filter out everything cool about a game and home in on the one part that may be considered offensive is amazing. Of course most people just get the sound bites, or the headlines and never hear about the rest of the game or what role the violence plays in it.

    ...Now if I could only post one of those guys at the entrance to my inbox to filter all of that pesky spam....

    --
    You are using English. Please learn the difference between loose and lose; they're, there, and their; your and you're.
  8. My impressions by Pojut · · Score: 1

    First and foremost, BioShock definitely ranks up there in my top 3 of all time. The graphics are gorgeous, the sound is phenomenal, the production values are sky high, and the game is just plain fun. Me and my ladyfriend turned out the lights, cranked my surround system up really high (a good sub or speakers with good bass response is a MUST for this game) and popped it in.

    The first 15 minutes, were absolutely terrifying. Not to ruin it for anyone, but if you are able to play it on a surround system (and a good one, at that) definitely take advantage of that and turn it up as loud as you can...much like in System Shock/System Shock 2, sound plays a HUGE role in this game) For the remainder of the 18 or so hours of playtime it took to beat, my ladyfriend sat there eyes wide with her hands over her mouth...she actually screamed more than a few times:-)

    The whole widescreen issue doesn't bother me...it looks fantastic enough on an HDTV for me to not even care. As far as the talks of the rootkit and activation issues, I don't know anything about that since I have it for 360.

    It is one of the few games out there that deserves every single bit of hype it has received. One of the greatest games ever made...every gamer needs to play through it at least once.

    1. Re:My impressions by Emetophobe · · Score: 1

      Me and my ladyfriend turned out the lights [...] and popped it in.

      That's what I'd do if I had a lady friend, but who am I kidding, this is slashdot.
    2. Re:My impressions by Zarrot · · Score: 1

      I can't wait to have an impression... I installed it on my PC and quickly realized this was the game that indicated it was time for me to build the new gaming rig I have been pining for...and my excuse to build a Vista box for DX10. This game needs some major hardware to drive it. This game may help revive and push the PC gaming industry but it will also drive hardware sales and Vista sales.

    3. Re:My impressions by Pojut · · Score: 1

      Do yourself a favour and don't look at Wikipedia or read any gaming reviews...the story line is one of the most interesting story lines in YEARS...not to mention there are more than a couple "holy shit" plot twists.

      Browse safely!

  9. Under the sea....somewhere. by Seakip18 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    After buying and playing through the game myself, it is indeed a beautiful game. It's a shame that, much like Rapture in game, has been marred of the beauty it dreamed of.

    In some of the fights, I encountered AI that got stuck at times and sorta ruined the combat scheme. I remember a big daddy getting stuck twice, making it easy to pick them off.

    On the other hand, I was constantly scooping out the environment, seeing if there was some advantage I could use that corridor I just walked through in entrapping a slew of splicers or setting up for taking down a big daddy.

    The big daddy/little sister dynamic is just flat out neat concept. I saw a little sister walking along and the big daddy tugged at her to go a different way. Weird, yet what other game would combine setting said big daddy on fire then harvesting/saving little girl?

    The game, taken by itself, was very enjoyable. I know with the rootkit, many people will justifiably pirate/refuse to purchase the game. I just find it a shame that people will miss an enjoyable yet poignant game because of lame copyright protection. I myself will face it again with a fresh XP install in the next day or two. Do I risk putting the game back on? I dunno.

    --
    import system.cool.Sig;
    1. Re:Under the sea....somewhere. by hansamurai · · Score: 1

      I just find it a shame that people will miss an enjoyable yet poignant game because of lame copyright protection. Yes, it really is a shame for the developer and publisher.
    2. Re:Under the sea....somewhere. by blahplusplus · · Score: 1

      "I know with the rootkit, many people will justifiably pirate/refuse to purchase the game."

      You're damn right, the rootkit is I imagine is there to collect piracy stats subversively.

    3. Re:Under the sea....somewhere. by krelian · · Score: 1

      We can cry all we want about the copy protection but the truth is that it actually worked and no pirated PC version of the game has been released yet.

    4. Re:Under the sea....somewhere. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It will be beaten so all the cheap bastards will be able to run it on their pirated Microseft Piece of Shit system. It might the fucking idiots from Paradox, or the stupid retards in Fairlight.

      Glass

    5. Re:Under the sea....somewhere. by geekoid · · Score: 1

      heh. Either yiou were very funny, or very, very stupid. I choose to believe very funny.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    6. Re:Under the sea....somewhere. by krelian · · Score: 1

      Was my statement inaccurate?

    7. Re:Under the sea....somewhere. by Emetophobe · · Score: 1

      The thing that annoys me about the "rootkit" whiners is the fact that I never heard anyone complain about the several dozen previous games that used securom.

      Here's a list of games that use various copy protection schemes: http://www.gameburnworld.com/protectedgameslist.sh tml

      Here's a partial list of popular titles that used Securom:

      Alien Vs Predator 2
      Alone In The Dark-The New Nightmare
      Alpha Centauri
      Colin McRae Rally 2
      Descent Freespace
      Empire Earth
      Gothic 2
      Half-Life - Blueshift
      Hitman 2
      Lord Of The Rings: Fellowship Of The Ring
      Masters Of Orion
      Neverwinter Nights
      Populous 3: The Beginning
      Roller Coaster Tycoon 2
      Sim City 3000
      Tony Hawks Pro Skater 3
      Tribes 2
      Turok 2
      Unreal 2 - The Awakening
      Unreal Tournament
      Unreal Tournament 2003 patches
      Warcraft 3: Reign Of Chaos

      I don't remember any big stories when any of these games used securom. I'm not saying it's right to use securom, I'm just pointing out how odd it is that people are complaining about Bioshock when I don't remember any of the games listed above making headlines on slashdot or digg when they used securom.

      There are dozens of games that install the securom driver, I had it installed on my system (from another game) well before Bioshock was installed on my computer, and yet all the sudden people seem to care when Bioshock is released. It's rather unfortunate, since Bioshock is such a great game and it's getting all this negative press.

    8. Re:Under the sea....somewhere. by ^_^x · · Score: 1

      SecuROM is always updating and changing. Back in the days of UT I copied an original disc 1:1 SecuROM and all...
      Now that it wants to install services just to prevent me from running apps I always have on, they're going to have to strip that crap out before I'll buy a copy.

      There are many games on that list people would complain about if the copy protection were THAT bad, but I think the majority are going to ignore it on Bioshock anyway...

  10. Can this beat Gears? by EveryNickIsTaken · · Score: 1

    Buzz on this game has been phenomenal - has there been any sales figures released yet? Would you kindly post them? I'm curious if it can beat Gears as the best selling "next-gen" game..

    1. Re:Can this beat Gears? by IndieKid · · Score: 1

      I imagine Bioshock will easily sell more copies than Gears as the game was designed for X-Box and PC from the start.
      I've been playing the PC version and it's easily the best single player game since Half-Life 2. As mentioned elsewhere, the production values are sky-high and I haven't noticed any bugs to speak of (apart from my initial pre-load from Steam being broken, easily resolved by forcing an integrity check of the local files).
      One other thing to note is that I can run the game at an acceptable frame rate at 1280x1024 with max details on an 18 month old PC (on Vista too). Shame the can't be said for the weak X-Box 360 ports that have been coming out on the PC recently (Lost Planet, I'm looking at you).

    2. Re:Can this beat Gears? by bbcisdabomb · · Score: 1

      Damn it, NO! I'm a man, not a slave!

      --
      Please put some pants on before you post again.
  11. Bioshock's launch was NOT plagued with bugs! by Murrdox · · Score: 2, Informative

    I'm sick of hearing all the negative buzz about Bioshock

    The game is 99% perfect! There is a very small widescreen issue. There is a bit of a DRM issue. A couple of AI bugs (which personally I have not witnessed, so as far as I can tell, how widespread they are is perfectly anecdotal). Show me another top-tier game launch recently that has has LESS bugs than Bioshock. I'm not hearing about bugs which are causing blue screens, or crashing X-Boxes or losing save games.

    I find it disheartening that with how incredible this game is, and how relatively PERFECTLY the launch went, that people are trying to focus press on what is wrong with it. People are making mountains out of molehills on this one.

    Bioshock is an amazing game. All issues and bugs reported on it are vastly overstated. Just play the game and enjoy it for god's sake. If the press wants to focus on something negative, go write a story on Iraq.

    In short, there's no story here. Move along.

    1. Re:Bioshock's launch was NOT plagued with bugs! by bahwi · · Score: 1

      Agreed. I just finished. From install to the auto-patch to completion, I've had no trouble. Civ IV, Oblivion, and all those other great games can't say that. They took weeks to become playable. BioShock just worked. I had no trouble installing or playing it.

    2. Re:Bioshock's launch was NOT plagued with bugs! by Alexpkeaton1010 · · Score: 1

      Perfect launch? I could not play this game for 2 days after launch on PC. Apparently, Steam + DX10 + Bioshock = FAIL. I had to reinstall directX run-times just to get the game to work; but of course I did this *after* i reinstalled drivers, messed with game options, reboot, reboot, reboot, surf forums, etc. I noticed after day 2 when I logged onto the game through steam it forced a directX update again, so apparently this was fixed. The widescreen issue was annoying, but there is already a 3rd party fix to this.

      I expect these issues on the PC, and they don't really bother me. What bothers me is the DRM limitations on the number of installs. I don't mind the Steam DRM system, but this other DRM issue is completely unfair. This game is great, but I wish I could return it and pirate it. This game would be 10/10, but because of these screw-ups, gets an 8/10 from me. If you are considering buying it vs pirating it, I would definitely pirate it. This is a game worth playing but 2k already thinks you are a criminal; you might as well act like one and not give them there money.

    3. Re:Bioshock's launch was NOT plagued with bugs! by Murrdox · · Score: 1

      You, my friend, are funny. ;) I'm sorry you had so many problems. But, to be fair, I think you're in the tiny minority of people who had an issue with the game. Don't pirate this game! 2K doesn't deserve your love. It's their fault that this DRM is there in the first place. The game makers don't make those decisions, the publisher does. Irrational (Now 2K Boston) made a great game, and before that, they gave us the golden nugget that is SYSTEM SHOCK 2... and the immortal SHODAN who is going to be remembered forever as a great video game villain. The people who brought us this wonderful game and System Shock deserve your support. They could have just made a Halo rip off. Don't pirate the game. Support the game makers, but not the publisher. Just don't buy any 2K stock ;)

    4. Re:Bioshock's launch was NOT plagued with bugs! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't care whose fault it is that the retail version of the game installs a rootkit, but as long as it does, I'm not going to buy it. The moment a fixed (read: rootkit free) version hits TPB, is the moment I'll download it. And if the game works and I find it enjoyable to play, I'll consider sending 2kBoston $30 by mail.

    5. Re:Bioshock's launch was NOT plagued with bugs! by Murrdox · · Score: 1

      You need to update yourself. SecureROM was reported as installing a "Rootkit" by someone who either didn't know what a rootkit is, or didn't do enough research. SecureRom installs a windows service on your computer. I agree this sucks, and the DRM is way too excessive. However, it's not a rootkit.

    6. Re:Bioshock's launch was NOT plagued with bugs! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Really?
      Rootkit definition, courtesy of wikipedia:
      A rootkit is a general description of a set of programs which work to subvert control of an operating system from it's legitimate operators. Usually, a rootkit will obscure its installation and attempt to prevent it's removal through a subversion of standard system security. Techniques used to accomplish this can include concealing running processes, files or system data from the operating system.

      As we know, Securom's main purpose is to subvert the control of the operating system; that's its job - to check that the user isn't running any processes which it deems unpure or whatever (like daemon or alcohol). Secondly, securom prevents users from deleting 16-bit executables for some reason. And even after you've remove the game it's supposed to protect, and (supposedly) uninstalled securom, it won't go away, as it installs null keys into the registry, which in effect makes it nearly impossible to remove by conventional means.

      It certainly walks like a duck, don't you think...?

    7. Re:Bioshock's launch was NOT plagued with bugs! by ggabyt · · Score: 1

      That may be the case...but I can't play the freakin' thing! I've had it for a week - and I haven't been able to play past the intro movie because the sound cuts out. Check out the 2K forums - this is a WIDESPREAD issue that has not been rectified. I just put together a new system with a Quad Core CPU, an 8800 GTS just so I could NOT play Bioshock! I should have bought the 360 version! I've stayed away from PC gaming for a few years now and I immediately remembered why. I've spent over 3 hours troubleshooting this issue and nothing works. Changed the compatibility settings, downloaded new drivers for my RealTek sound (which the 2K support claims they have issues with), adjusted settings, and on and on. Ridiculous. PC gamefans are always asking why no one seems to care for PC gaming anymore - THIS IS WHY. They've never worked in the past, they don't work now, and they won't work in 5 years. I've been in the IT industry for over 12 years and I get annoyed with this crap. You know what a "standard" computer user does with these annoyances? They buy a console that's what.

    8. Re:Bioshock's launch was NOT plagued with bugs! by Emetophobe · · Score: 1

      I totally agree, Bioshock is a great game and the developers are really responsive to all the complaints they've been getting. What bothers me is the fact that previous games like Warcraft 3 Reign of Chaos used Securom, but no one raised a fuss about it back then, so why all the fuss about Bioshock using securom now?

      See my previous post for a partial list of Securom titles: http://games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=281623&c id=20394511

    9. Re:Bioshock's launch was NOT plagued with bugs! by Mycroft_VIII · · Score: 1

      This is as good a place as any for this question.
      WHY do so many seem to think that 'the publisher made them do it' is any
      different than 'the devil made them do it'.
          I WILL so blame the developers for what hit's the shelves, if the publisher does evil then they should find a new publisher.
          "The publisher requires it" will not put food on the table when they loose money because people won't buy their nifty program with the added malware.
            It really annoys me the most when some developer says "we didn't want to add drm, but the publisher made us".
      Well then require them not to or take your game elsewhere or self publish. I see arguments of 'all publishers do this' or self-publishing not profitable, but then I've bought at a major store at least one drm free game that wasn't a 4.99 throw-away game. Install, put cd away, play whenever. O.k. you have to register online with a cd-key to get updates and other game related free-bees, but that's it
            And considering drm schemes cost $$ to add and more to support and yet you can still get most games in drm-free no cd required 'pirate' version for a very low price (a.k.a. free) I don't see how they're anything but a net loss (and in this case and others like it cost big from the negative publicity and lost sales therefrom ). Why the stockholders of the publicly traded companies don't throw fit (and maybe a lawsuit or two) has to be due to pure ingorance and fud.

      Mycroft

      --
      https://signup.leagueoflegends.com/?ref=4c3ed6600b6ea
    10. Re:Bioshock's launch was NOT plagued with bugs! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe because this is a very new build of SecuROM with all the bells and whistles turned on. Pretty much nothing on your list has this version, and I believe this is a sub build that's even different than the one they used in NWN2, so yeah, people are having problems with what this version is doing.

      You can't possibly think they're using the same methods they used in Aliens vs. Predator, can you?

  12. I'm pretty sure you mean... by thegnu · · Score: 1

    "Extra apostrophe's launch a lot of snide grammar nazi post's."

    I mean, your an adult, I'm an adult. Were all adult's here. Its time we started spelling good.

    --
    Please stop stalking me, bro.
    1. Re:I'm pretty sure you mean... by somersault · · Score: 1

      And your signature should be "I think the mosquitoeses have figured out how to hackz into my internetz". Your userid is possibly one of the strangely sexiest ones I've seen so far. There's a definite rhythmic pattern thang going on there.

      --
      which is totally what she said
    2. Re:I'm pretty sure you mean... by flewp · · Score: 1

      Only on /. would someone find something sexy about a UID #.

      --
      WWJD.... for a Klondike bar?
  13. Want attention? Write controversy about a game. by Mr.Fork · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It seems that in order to garner attention for their media articles, if you put in words like "Checkered Launch" or "BioShock's Little Sister killing gets mainstream attention", it's designed to catch the eyes of readers.

    Was there really anything wrong with the launch of their product? Not really.
    Was there really anything wrong in this game that we haven't seen before in games like the GTA series? No.

    Having used a lot of other software and games that couldn't even install, crashed to desktop faster than a Microsoft Minute, I'm surprised that websites use words that try to stir the pot to make issues out of nothing. Really, Bioshock has set the bar for games. It's intriguing, well designed and written, and its plays really well. Could it be that the media websites need money for their click through ads by making mountains out of mole hills? It does come at the price of the developers integrity. That is in my opion, the bigger issue.

    --
    Management is doing things right; leadership is doing the right things. - Peter F. Drucker
    1. Re:Want attention? Write controversy about a game. by happyemoticon · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Some percentage of users are probably experiencing show-stopper bugs. Let's take the forum rants with a grain of salt, though: users with a chip on their shoulder are a thousand times louder than satisfied customers. Myself, I have encountered two obvious bugs, both of them AI pathing problems - no crashes. It seems to me that Irrational shipped a product which was QAed to satisfaction on some platforms, they just didn't QA for as many platforms as they should've - strange, cheap cards, MB's, RAM, bloated anti-spyware progs, etc.

      I have two things to say about the little sisters.

      One, if you say "You free children from their existence as vampiric, indestructible monsters with no free will forced to drain and ingest vital fluids from corpses in a post-apocalyptic watery tomb at the bottom of the Atlantic," then, the option of death surely doesn't sound so bad. It's a pretty common theme in vampire pulp, actually: you promise to save your love from their curse, and you do so with a stake through the heart.

      Two, not a single child has to die in Bioshock if you don't do it. Most people, whether they know it or not, decide to reject horrible, heinous, evil crimes which they could in fact perpetrate in their daily life, again, whether they know it or not. I think some people would rather imagine that we didn't make these choices, for whatever reason. That's why they're decrying a game which illustrates that very basic choice: mercy or murder; to be a human being or to be a monster. Then, should not the headline read: "Some People Press H When Confronting Little Sisters - Could One Be In Your Neighborhood?"

    2. Re:Want attention? Write controversy about a game. by nuzak · · Score: 1

      Replyeth the media: "Our take sells more papers. We stand by our story."

      --
      Done with slashdot, done with nerds, getting a life.
    3. Re:Want attention? Write controversy about a game. by RESPAWN · · Score: 1

      Was there really anything wrong in this game that we haven't seen before in games like the GTA series? No.

      Well, I don't remember being able to kill kids in the GTA series. Unfortunately. ;)

      All kidding aside, this is a little OT, but lately I've slowly been working my way through episodes of the Blade TV series. (The show is crap, but it makes for adequate background noise while surfing the net.) This morning, while eating breakfast, I caught a scene where a child vampire was given a baby that she obviously meant to eat (drink, whatever). I felt a vile disgust for that vampire at that moment, which I think was probably the point. But I don't think I ever once read an outraged article by some reporter lambasting the show for this particular scene. I think that's because nobody was watching it. Therefore, we should be taking this "outrage" over the killing of little girl zombies as a good sign. It's a sign that people out there are actually paying attention to this game. People are actually playing the game. And the only reason that reporters want to right articles about the shock and vulgarity of killing the little sisters in the game is because they too want to get their names in print and ride the shockwave of publicity that the game is receiving. Look at these articles and whining forum posts another way: there's no such thing as bad publicity.

      Now, if only I had a system that could play Bioshock.

      --

      If Murphy's Law can go wrong, it will.

    4. Re:Want attention? Write controversy about a game. by ChaosDiscord · · Score: 1

      Was there really anything wrong with the launch of their product? Not really.

      Other than that the authentication servers weren't properly functioning on the launch date, meaning many early adopters hoping to play that day didn't get to. Oh, and the people who ran into problems with it and had to reinstall a few times, but the uninstaller didn't always successfully return the license, so they got locked out of their game. Oh, and people noticed that the software installed a driver they didn't want and couldn't uninstall. But other than that, it was a flawless launch.

      Was there really anything wrong in this game that we haven't seen before in games like the GTA series? No.

      Can you kill little girls in the GTA series (III and beyond, mind you)? No. People are understandably protective of children. That's going to cause controversy, like it or not.

    5. Re:Want attention? Write controversy about a game. by humina · · Score: 1

      Was there really anything wrong with the launch of their product? Not really. My installation of bioshock along with thousands of others crashes unexpectedly to the desktop. I cannot play for longer than 20 minutes without the game dumping me to my desktop. If I want to play bioshock I can only play in small 20 minute segments while I constantly hit the quicksave button. Every time I restart the game all of my settings are destroyed and I have to reset them (screen resolution and mouse sensitivity)

      Those are not game hyping qualities.

      --
      check out the best blog ever:
      http://oehlberg.com
  14. Double standard, much? by argStyopa · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Oooh - a videogame that (due to its interactivity) forces you to make uncomfortable moral choices that might teach you something about yourself? That's bad?

    I mean, it's not like there have ever been great movies that make you uncomfortable, right?
    Lolita?
    Solaris?
    Satyricon?
    The Cook, the Thief, his Wife, her Lover?
    Trainspotting?
    Requiem for a Dream?
    American History X?
    Hotel Rwanda?

    Yeah, certainly none of those are anything but sordid entertainment - no actual value to any of them.

    --
    -Styopa
    1. Re:Double standard, much? by Bobfrankly1 · · Score: 1

      I mean, it's not like there have ever been great movies that make you uncomfortable, right? It's funny how the term "great" is a matter of opinion, as I have my choices of "great" movies, and yet have never seen any of the movies in your list. Perhaps what made those movies "great" to you was precisely THAT they made you uncomfortable.

      Getting back on topic, I personally think this game is trash, but I know there will be many (perhaps a majority) of people who not only buy, but worship the game. Pushing videogames into the realm of the insane isn't innovative and creative, it's the easy way out.
      -
      Bobfrankly
    2. Re:Double standard, much? by MrHanky · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There's the difference that games aren't taken seriously. Before movies were taken seriously as an art form (that is, when they were entertainment for the working classes and "children"), they didn't enjoy the same freedom of speech as other forms of expression. Consider for instance the introduction of the Hays Code. Games are in pretty much the same position now, and interestingly it's games that have a significant portion of social satire that are attacked hardest of all (but not exclusively).

      I fully agree with your point, though.

    3. Re:Double standard, much? by argStyopa · · Score: 1

      Well, yes, "great" is a self-evidently subjective measure.

      Many people, I believe, like movies (& books, & videogames) that challenge one's preconceptions - that present the viewer with a moral dilemma, or a challenging set of circumstances. Other people want nothing but mild escapist entertainment that allows them to NOT be confronted with the challenges that they (for example) might face in their occupations.
      Generally, I would argue, movies in the 'challenging' category are more likely to be widely considered 'great' in an artistic sense than "Benji Saves the Day".

      I think Bioshock is an interesting game. I like that it requires some level of judgement from the player, rather than nothing but reflexes. Of course, forcing the player to make moral choices runs a fine line: it can be just as gratuitous (and thus meaningless) as violence or nudity in movies, neither of which automagically make a movie challenging EITHER (Hollywood I'm looking at you). I think (like in movies) it's more likely that a challenging game is going to get serious consideration as "art" than Commander Keen.

      Your mileage may, of course, vary.

      --
      -Styopa
    4. Re:Double standard, much? by Gen.Anti · · Score: 1

      Is it much more there if we go after particulars, though? What kind of preconception is challenged here, that it's not always unrewarding to kill zombie little girls? That's not a challenge.

      BTW it's worthy of consideration why something gory or challenging is more likely to be widely described as great or as art.

      The most important thing is that it is actually great violent art that is escapist and allows the consumer to not be confronted with the real problems they encounter in, as you say, their occupations.

      Please don't take it personally, I'm just trying to explore this issues.

    5. Re:Double standard, much? by argStyopa · · Score: 1

      Not taking it personally at all, I find the discussion interesting.

      I'd say the issues (for Bioshock in particular) are a little deeper than your suggestion. For example, is a "little girl" in a video game entitled to the moral level of restraint that we would, for example, offer any child in the real world? Assuming this, what if she is evil (in this case, doing something heinous)? What if what she is doing isn't intrinsically evil (if you accept such absolutes) but merely surviving the only way she can? What if sacrificing an unknown (in this case a little girl, playing bluntly on most people's sympathetic nature to children and girls in particular) is the only way that YOU can survive? Would you?

      I think a case can be made that there IS a fairly serious point* on the bounds of moral relativism, utilitarianism, as well as a more '4th wall' meta-question of how far the bounds of our real-world definitions stretch, to each of us. Is a collection of pixels "a girl" in a moral or ethical sense? How about a collection of lines? At what point (as a *very* crude example) on the spectrum below does "pedophilia" appear, and why? I think everyone's answer is going to vary at least a bit.

      * don't get me wrong though, this isn't a subtle point in Bioshock, in fact I think it's almost trite but the medium is still rather young.

      1- a drawing of a stick figure having sex with a smaller stick figure
      2- an animated graphic of the above
      3- an animated graphic of a simplistic human figure and a small (but adult-proportioned) human figure
      4- animated graphic of more realistic proportions still stick figures
      5- authetic proportions, but still stick figures
      6- as 5, but simple line drawings
      7- as 6 but only shaded
      8- as 7, but drawn realistically
      9- rendered computer graphics
      10- photorealistic computer graphics
      11- actual people

      Now about your point that 'violent' art is escapist, I agree that it certainly CAN be. But I don't think Saving Private Ryan (for instance), while horrifically violent, avoided at all the consequences of that violence for the viewer. As I think I mentioned before, violence can CERTAINLY be gratuitous and in fact I think it sadly IS, in Hollywood, to a large degree. But I can completely understand why many people simply don't want to be confronted with SPR's level of violence, no matter how 'valuable' the reason.

      --
      -Styopa
    6. Re:Double standard, much? by Gen.Anti · · Score: 1

      I'll start from the end. I'll mention that I don't support a relatively widely accepted idea that an "escapist" activity is by definition wrong. Then I'd like to show that it's possible to argue that Saving Private Ryan can be argued to be escapist, with the past employed in the movie as a functionally fantasy world for most viewers--a convenient vehicle not only for quality entertainment, but also for gratifying feelings of righteousness among both the producers and the audience.

      You are right that there is a kind of a challenge with the "little sisters". Nobody obviously would equate acts of killing a real person and of killing a computer-controlled avatar. What is challenged here is not a preconception, but 1. the instinct of avoiding hurting the weak 2. an immature tendency* of feeling about the unreal the same as about the real 3. the conviction that certain transgressions should be taboo.

      The point 3 seem to be, so to say, a standard point of disagreement. About the 1st I'll say, as a side note, that what a person here is expected to learn about himself (it's a boy, right?), is that he too can be tricked to do certain things for "leisure", things which he had before considered not fun. That is to the satisfaction of those who always wait to say "you are just as much scum as me or anybody else", and the saint holy me does not condemn them, but would like to kinda inspire them or whatevar.

      I'd also add about point 2, that it's something that should not** be challenged, I think. A person should be helped to grow without having his mind wrecked, that is, being abused, which means it's wrong to support a system of values in which abuse is great. Now, here, that's what you had been doing a little tiny bit, hadn't you ;-)

      I'm not happy with how I can't help falling from analysis into mundane judgements. Working on it ;-)

      *I hope this answers "Would you"

      **I've missed the goddamn not, thank God for Preview

  15. Product Activation by Digital_Quartz · · Score: 1

    I'm sorry, but I just can't support a game with product activation with my dollars. I went through these headaches when I received a copy of Flight Simulator X as a gift over the holidays last year, and I'm now running a cracked-but-legal copy of FSX. I refuse to "rent" a game for $75.

    Steam doesn't bother me, BTW, since there's no restriction on the number of times you install anything, or the number of times you upgrade your video card. But, if this activation thing gets popular, it won't be long before I think "Should I buy a new video card? No, better not. Too much hassle reactivating and repurchasing all my games."

    Ken says the activation will eventually be removed, although refuses to give a time line. I hope that's true, because I really would like to play this thing, but I won't buy it on a promise that it will eventually be unbroken.

    1. Re:Product Activation by Groghunter · · Score: 1

      Just so you know, It's availiable on Steam. ;)

    2. Re:Product Activation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Still has SecuROM (with activation) even with the Steam version. Just a heads up.

  16. damn by JustNiz · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I already bought it, then found out it did all this stuff. I wouldn't have bought the game in the first place had I have known.
    There should be a law that says the game's outer packaging has to carry a big label if they do this sort of stuff.

    1. Re:damn by DeionXxX · · Score: 1

      Don't listen to this crap. Like many of the posters in this thread say, this game is absolutely fantastic and there are very very very few problems with it.

    2. Re:damn by JustNiz · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I agree its a good game but that isn't the issue.
      Securom is a third-party and fairly widespread technology used to protect games. It seems the latest incarnation of it requires authentication via the internet. I don't want this to spread to other games, nor will I buy them if it does.

      My issues against it is this:
      I've paid fair and square to play this game whereever and whenever I want, no matter how many times I want to install it.
      I don't even like the thought that its possible for someone else to interfere with that, let alone the fact that:
      1) I have to have an internet connection just to install the game
      2) That I have to seek their permission every time I want to install the thing I already paid for
      3) That they get informed every time I install the game and from which IP I'm doing it from (technically a privacy concern)
      4) I'm at the mercy of the continued availability of their authentication servers. If the company goes bust, has technical server issues, or just decides to stop supporting BioShock, I can no longer install it.

  17. What about Doom? by phorm · · Score: 1

    Doom 3 had those creepy little flying bug things with babies heads. I'd say that if something was going to provoke more of a shock-and-gasp media response than the "Little Sisters." However, I'm not entirely sure about how this plays into the plotline - although it seems that you are given more of a choice over your actions (kill or save) - so maybe it's a little more/less dramatic than it's being made out to be.

  18. wank wank wank by heinousjay · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    I'm actually starting to get sick of hearing about this, Great, don't play it. Do you and all the other nerdcool "ethical" types want a cookie or something? It's starting to look like masturbation to me.

    And really, it pretty much is.

    --
    Slashdot - where whining about luck is the new way to make the world you want.
    1. Re:wank wank wank by HazMathew · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      AMEN BROTHA!

    2. Re:wank wank wank by BravoZuluM · · Score: 1

      LOL. Great, don't read it.

      There is simply alot of people getting sick of locked up software then interfers with the use of that software. Just because it hasn't affected you doesn't make it irrelevant. Maybe the problem is bigger than you can grasp.

    3. Re:wank wank wank by fetus54 · · Score: 1

      You are calling people who ARE NOT playing a VIDEO GAME because of the unethical practices of a company nerdy? Although it is just a game, this is exactly the kind of shit consumers should not deal with.

  19. Little Sisters by gweihir · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I am a veteran of System Schok 1 and 2, all Thieve games and Deus Ex 1 and 2, which are sort of the greater family Bioshock is part of. So far I have played the medical level and the game does not disappoint. It is definitely one of these defining games that push the boundaries. It is also creepy as hell in various ways, working expertly with lights, sounds, voices and surprises. An they do not overuse certain situiations, such as, for example, the open-a-door-and be-jumbed in Q3. Example: Typically you hear the MOBs. But when truning round after searching a desk, there was one standing patiently behind me without any warning at all. I nearly fell out of my chair!

    Then I reached the point were I had to make the decision to kill or save the first little sister. They make that really hard on you and I had to stop playing for a while. Of course the kill does not happen on-screen and is only implied. It is also not a direct kill: You remove a sea-slug from her that was controlling her. It is inplied that she cannot survive that, but that she might have effectively been dead as a person anyways. The game plays very well with ambiguity here. Oh, and you cannot hurt the little sisters with weapons or in other forms. So no bashing or shooting little girls here.

    All in all, I think there is no ethical problem here with the game design. The player cannot rush through this (long cutscene which is non-interruptable), and has to make a choice with as much time as he/she likes for it. I think, there is also the option to ignore the little sister (and possibly come back for her later). Supposedly the game gets very hard later one if you do that. Of course poeple that only see the pictures may come to the wrong conclusions. Those that actually play it should not. At least I see very little risk of that happening.

    Levels are really large, and no loading in them. Comparisons to levels in System Shock 2 are fair, if the medical level in Bioshock is typical. And the levels are dense. You do not run through them fast, it is more a careful advancing. It also really does not feel like a console game, the demo is misleading here.

    Summary: This game is a milestone and a gem. If you are into shooters with RPG elements and a creepy setting, get it. It will define the genre for the near future. And this time, I hope they got the marketing right. This thing really deserves to be a huge success. If it has, the hole genre will benefit and more interesting shooter-RPG hybrids should crop up in the future.

    A note on hardware: It is playable with a 7600GT, but you have to turn down most settings. It runns completely smooth with almost the highest settings in 1280x1024 in a GeForce 8800GTS (Athlon X2 5600+, 2GB RAM), where I just disabled the high-quelity shaders (and I do not like the glossy look they give everything anyways).

    --
    Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    1. Re:Little Sisters by Pragmatix · · Score: 1

      But when truning round after searching a desk, there was one standing patiently behind me without any warning at all. I nearly fell out of my chair!
      That one got me too. By far the scariest moment of any video game I have ever played. Of course I happened to have my shotgun loaded .. :)
    2. Re:Little Sisters by gweihir · · Score: 1

      Buddy, you should have spent more time in school and less time playing games, you fucking dumbass.

      Given that I aced most things in school, including being allowed to spend time on other stuff during lectures as I was so much faster than the others, I think your statement shows who of us two is the "fucking dumbass".

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
  20. Go home whiney panzies! by HazMathew · · Score: 1, Interesting

    It's so easy to sit behind a screen and bitch and moan about the copy protection and the "widescreen issues", and threaten class action lawsuits. You don't like the copy protection? You have three options Man up, focus your energy and crack the damn thing, buy it for the 360, or shut the hell up. You don't like the FOV? Use Racer_s's fix.

    Am I the only one sick of seeing boards flooded with all the whiney skript kiddies? Worried about what will happen when 2k isn't around to validate your install anymore? I got news for you, there's gonna be a crack, or 2k will deal with it when the time comes, or you can buy it from Steam (or the like) for $5.

    I think this game is great, very entertaining. Worth the ~$45 for the PC version.

    1. Re:Go home whiney panzies! by Kamots · · Score: 1

      Yeah... because everyone knows that a silent boycott works so much better than a vocal one!

      "I got news for you, there's gonna be a crack"

      O RLY?

      Then why the hell did 2k bother with securom in the first place? Because they like alienating potential customers?

      And the game definately looks great. It definately looks very entertaining. It definately looks like it's worth the $45, $60, or whatever. However, to me (and evidently to a lot of others), it is not worth the copy protection crap.

      Evidently it is to you. We differ.

      On a side note, I hope the irony of complaining about "whiney skript kiddies" in the middle of your very whiney post was intentional... :)

    2. Re:Go home whiney panzies! by sabt-pestnu · · Score: 1

      So... you're saying that if we are dissatisfied with a product, we can...
      *become criminal
      *spend even more money (purchasing additional hardware/software) for the same level of service
      *cease complaining where you can view our complaints.

      The point of complaining, of making our dissatisfaction known, is to encourage the provider to alter the terms they offer. We can't do that by shutting up. We can't do that by silently boycotting - the lost sales don't show up as "because of X", so the producer does not even know there is anything wrong.

      Aside from threats of incarceration of fines, many of us decline to commit criminal acts, as this, too, does not provide direct feedback on the nature of our complaints. Much like silently refusing to buy, pirating the game because you don't like the registration issues looks the same to the vendor as pirating it because you simply don't want to pay for it.

      And if you see nothing wrong in such an unbalanced cost for services (buy PC game vs buy 360 game + platform), then perhaps an analogy is in order. You COULD drive a hydrogen fueled car around. More expensive, more bulky, and possibly subject to detonation when damaged in collisions. But it provides the same level of service - getting you from point A to point B.

      So perhaps you should turn away from those forums that cause you needless upset. In your own words, "Man Up".

    3. Re:Go home whiney panzies! by HazMathew · · Score: 1

      I wonder why companies bother with copy protection myself. I can't think of any single player PC games that haven't been cracked at some point.

    4. Re:Go home whiney panzies! by Spikeles · · Score: 1

      I took the first point about "cracking" to mean, buy the game, then crack it. I don't think that's illegal and it's something i do with all my bought games.

      --
      I don't need to test my programs.. I have an error correcting modem.
    5. Re:Go home whiney panzies! by totally+bogus+dude · · Score: 1

      It's to maximise sales at release, and immediately after -- when the hype is at its peak. Apparently there's lots of people who can't control their desire to play a game immediately at release, and will buy it if they can't pirate it.

      In almost all cases, the copy protection is only intended to last a few weeks through the initial sales. Anyone that pirates it after that was never going to buy it anyway.

  21. Exactly! by remmelt · · Score: 1

    I mean, three weeks ago no-one even knew what a rootkit was!

    1. Re:Exactly! by Shagg · · Score: 1

      I mean, three weeks ago no-one even knew what a rootkit was! Apparently there are still a lot of people that don't know what a rootkit is.
      --
      Unix is user friendly, it's just selective about who its friends are.
  22. Fear of online activation? Irrational? by sabt-pestnu · · Score: 1

    How about this, then?

    Fear of having to get online to activate the game in the first place.

    Why should I be required to get online at all, ever, to play a game that I don't intend to play online? Justify that, please.

    I'm sorry, but I see it as an entirely unreasonable requirement. I already put up with being required to flash my original CD/DVD when the game asks "papers, please". I won't put up with being required to go online even once to be allowed to play a game I've already purchased.

  23. My only complaint by Alzheimers · · Score: 0

    My only complaint about Bioshock is how terrible the Telekenisis skill is handled. I guess I've been too spoiled by the Gravity Gun from HL2, but this skill seems to pick up the most random crap at the most inopportune times. The ammo and stuff you have to hit a separate key to take after sucking up, and of the junk lying around that you pick up, most of it's useless in a fight anyway.

    I'm in a fight, trying to catch projectiles coming at me. No, I don't want that empty corpse I searched a few minutes ago. No, I don't want that random ammo from half a map away. And no, I don't want that useless piece of scrap metal. Ugh, reload again.

    (and no, I refuse to use the respawn vats. F8/F9 all the way!)

    1. Re:My only complaint by vimh42 · · Score: 1

      You've obviously missed out on the fun of killing a splicer with another splicer. Or better yet, with a candy bar.

    2. Re:My only complaint by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're right... Dead bodies really are the best ammo. I haven't had much issue with picking up the wrong stuff, but if you just right-click twice (toggle weapon/plasmid), you drop the item without using any EVE at all.

  24. Have you Considered Piracy? by lmnfrs · · Score: 1

    Yes, there is an initial extra investment to modify your console, and that can prevent you from using XboxLive!, but then you have the freedom to try any game you want. If you're a PC gamer, there is no need to mod, a free software method should exist for the game.

    I know it's bad and immoral etc. but if you think objectively about the game you will notice if you keep playing it, and will realize you should buy it. I like doing this because there is no initial risk to me, and when I find a good game I get to keep it mint in its cellophane, because I'm a dork like that.

    I know this may not be adequate in this particular situation, since you already explained your objections to the conditions attached to this game, but it's still worth considering. You could be missing something great.

    1. Re:Have you Considered Piracy? by HazMathew · · Score: 1

      there was a computer store I used to go to as a kid in the 80s where they would let you play any game for as long as you want before you bought it. I loved it when my parents would take me there, I never wanted to leave, and I always came home with a sweet game.

  25. Big Media's got a short memory by uem-Tux · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I was killing little kids years and years ago in Ultima 6. Read Richard Garriott's answer to the second question on this page:

    http://www.warcry.com/news/view/73167-Richard-Garr iott-Interview-Part-2

    --
    A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills
    1. Re:Big Media's got a short memory by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Man, it is still painful to read what that man says.
      He isn't nearly as clever as he thinks he is.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    2. Re:Big Media's got a short memory by ShadowsHawk · · Score: 1

      Same for Fallout 1&2. Nothing like a 'Child killer' stat to make people hate you.

  26. Why one copy less is being sold by Opportunist · · Score: 0

    I wanted that game since I saw the first pictures. I've dreamt about it. 100 bucks would've been acceptable for me to buy it.

    But I'm not going to compromise my system for any game on this planet. Sorry. Remove the rootkit potential, and I'll be camping in front of the game store to get it as soon as I can. Until then, I will have to live without it.

    I know that I'm just one customer, and I might have strange priorities (valuing my system's security higher than entertainment), but that's one copy less sold.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    1. Re:Why one copy less is being sold by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Alternately, maybe you've been sucked in by the FUD posted here on Slashdot. There is no rootkit. There is copy protection and activation, and it has no more chance of compromising your system than any other program you install does.

    2. Re:Why one copy less is being sold by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      I'd say hiding a directory from APIs does a pretty good job at paving the way for malware.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  27. would you have baught it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/showthread.php?t= 6803

    so would you purchase the game knowing all the crap? 2 installs (granted up to 5) and the "rootkit"? seems roughly 80% would not

  28. It's a fucking game weenie !! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's a fucking game weenie !! If you can't tell the difference you are an uber weenie !!

  29. XBox 360 rootkit? by otis+wildflower · · Score: 1

    Wow, never heard of that...

  30. SecuROM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You're right, SecuROM isn't a rootkit, it merely uses nefarious methods to prevent you from removing certain bits of the game ever, even with an uninstall.

    However, SecuROM itself sucks ass in many, many ways. I'd never willingly put it on my machine.

    This game sounds pretty interesting to me, and my system is more than powerful enough to play it, but I'll never buy it with that. Are the sales lost that way really more than those lost to piracy? Or won't SecuROM make people consider pirating cracked copies of the game (whether or not they've bought it)?

    Honestly, game companies should learn from the past. Screw piracy; make people *want* to buy the game by providing cool manuals and extras. Let your copy protection be typing a few words out of the manual. Yes, it's true--people will just photocopy the manuals. But that's fine, those people weren't customers to begin with, and they'll help advertise how awesome your game is. The people who see those extras will probably want them.

    Also, if you have online play, just make them set up an account for it. If it's any good, people will buy it for that and you can say screw it to copy protection entirely.

    Maybe you'll make a few thousand dollars less out of millions, but your customers won't hate you.

  31. Fallacy by geekoid · · Score: 3, Insightful

    There is no reason you can't complain to a company about things you don't like about a product you bought.

    Similar to "Tu quoque" logical fallacy.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    1. Re:Fallacy by HazMathew · · Score: 1

      touché!

  32. double damn by geekoid · · Score: 1

    I wish I didn't read this until after I installed the game!
    heh.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  33. Steam doesn't solve anything. by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

    The Steam version does, in fact, come with the same SecuROM bullshit that the physical game does. In fact, even the demo comes with it.

    --
    Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
  34. Re:Fear of online activation? Irrational? by cliffski · · Score: 1

    its justified because a VAST chunk of the potential demographic for the game were intending to steal it the day it went on sale. What would you do? cross your fingers and hope all those kids would somehow feel guilty and buy it anyway? check out a few warez boards, modern PC Gaming kids expect the world on a plate for free. No market can work that way.
    If I go into a retail store and spot a security guard, I *could* feel intimidated, insulted, and assume the store owner does not trust me. ditto if I spot security cameras (as most stores have). The fact is, the store does not trust me, nor should it, as long experience teaches retail that a significant proprtion of people will shoplift if they think its safe to do so. Its way easier to pirate a game than to shoplifdt, so its even mroe rampant.
    The copy protection on bioshock is that security camera in the store. It sucks to put up with it, to think your privacy may theoretically be invaded, and to know somehow you are paying for it, but do we think the store owners are bastards? or do we pity them for having to deal with the shit they get from shoplifters trying to wreck their business?
    A game as jaw-droppingly awesome as bioshock costs megabucks to make. Nobody sane makes that kind of investment and doesn't try to protect it. If you hate the protection enough to skip the game, thats fine, but don't be insulted or surprised that the company is trying to protect itself against thieves. BTW, there is no crack in the wild. The game is 7 days on sale with no piracy. The DRM worked.

    --
    DRM-free indie games for the PC and Mac: Positech Games
  35. "The game itself is really good..." by soupforare · · Score: 1

    lolwut?
    what I expected: SS3
    what I bought: Bioshock
    what I got: Deus Ex Invisible War - Steampunk Edition

    Shit play control (BOTH platforms), no death penalty, no inventory, too linear. Is it bad? No. Is it great? Not really. The art direction (hi shawn!) is great, but visuals and style only go so far. If they patch the shit out of the PC version, I might give it another go but I've no expectations of that. I don't know how it's getting all these crazy high ratings. Maybe since it's not a WWII or squad-based-tactical shooter; people got excited about change.

    I did like the giant arrow on the top though, made it sort of like Crazy Taxi with guns.

    --
    --- Do you believe in the day?
    1. Re:"The game itself is really good..." by vimh42 · · Score: 1

      You know, that's just a lame complaint. No death penalty? Sure there is no penalty when you die as you show up in one of the tank things. But really isn't any penalty regardless as you just load your last saved game. No inventory? Why would you care when you are given access to everything quite easily through the games controls. How would an inventory help you? So you could look at how many med packs or hypo's you have? Wouldn't really help as it says on your HUD. Now being able to take inventory of all your ammo at a glance would be nice rather than having to cycle through weapons to see but that's about all an inventory would be good for. Linear. I'm afraid I have no argument for that. It is linear. Most games are. Often times to tell a story, that's what you're going to have to do.

    2. Re:"The game itself is really good..." by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      gb2/b/

    3. Re:"The game itself is really good..." by Slushie31 · · Score: 1

      For what it's worth, you can inventory all your weapons/ammo, along with all your selected plasmids, by activating the "weapons switch" screen (shift key by default). It shows all the weapons you're holding along the top, which icons for each ammo top beneath it (the ammo name and amount displays on mouseover).

  36. All the Bugs! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I am surprised no one is mentioning the INSANE number of bugs in this game that cause it to randomly:
    a) Not Load
    b) Crash
    c) Have Graphical Glitches
    d) Have Audio Glitches
    e) Forget settings
    f) ???

    Look at the Bioshock Technical Support forums for yourselves, especially these threads:
    PC Outstanding Problems, 113 Pages Long (it was at 100 yesterday!): http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/showthread.php?t= 6642&page=113
    PC Demo Problems, 38 Pages Long: http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/showthread.php?t= 5277&page=38
    XBOX 360 Outstanding Problems, 24 Pages Long: http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/showthread.php?t= 6688&page=24

    There is NO WAY the PC version of this game was ready to ship. Their software process must be non-existent or really shitty to allow such a wide range of problems slip through - it's like they didn't test it on more than one hardware configuration or more than one SKU of windows, etc. So what now - all those people who shelled out the money to buy this game for the PC got robbed. There has been not a single official reply in that thread to any of these problems. Also note that this thread is SPECIFICALLY for problems not related to the lack of AA, the widescreen issue, or securom issues.

    It is so frustrating having to load Bioshock over and over and over again to be able to play it. When I played on the XBOX360 the experience was fine (and my friends who have the 360 version don't have problems either)...but the PC version is a completely different story (note that 2K Australia made the PC version while 2K Boston made the XBOX version)

    1. Re:All the Bugs! by Zarrot · · Score: 1

      I think a majority of the PC issues are related to the fact that this game is a resource beast. It is the fore bringer of the next generation of games that require Core 2, 2 GB of RAM, 8800 and Vista for DX10. This game doesn't cost 45 dollars it costs $1500+ which is ballpark what it cost me in parts for a new gaming rig...

    2. Re:All the Bugs! by ShadowsHawk · · Score: 1

      I'm afraid I'll have to disagree with you. I'm able to play this game without a hitch with textures and lighting turned all the way up, but Stalker destroyed my system with low settings. I'm actually impressed with how well Bioshock runs on 'older' hardware.

      2.66 Ghz P4
      1Gig ram
      ATI X1950 AGP 512Mb

  37. Re:Put it all to the side...NOT by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When we start down the path of DRM, a line is drawn on the edge of the incident pit that DRM forms in the bottoms of the not talked about cesspools of the gaming world. Those cross it who want to pursue more games at any cost. Cost to their self respect! Cost to their privacy! Cost to their financial security as the pit inevitably deepens toward the abyss from which there is no escape or redemption. Writers as the above would seek to give up anything in the pursuit of yet a little more excitement of the moment. But when one crosses that line and starts giving up, where does the logical end lie. We have been in this incident pit for quite some time now, starting with NT, then XP and its mandatory 'registration'. Now 'Vista' with its mandatory ..INTERNET-- activation. Now there are games with a 'limited' number of installs and mandatory internet activation. Where is the point where one starts to buy a game and finds out that he only has a time, perhaps only weeks, to use the game before it dies, requiring repurchase. And this after also having to bare his soul to filthy phishers and grubby scammers repeatedly. Let us throw in a bit of begging and proper 'submissive' behavior in order to secure yet another 'week' of play! Already we see on the horizon micro$$ new project, '7' that hopes to implement a software 'subscription' model. Are we so dead and apathetic that we will go silently into that good(?)night as well? I say NO to the above writer and his stance of 'get over it...' Maybe he is so weak and his spirit so dead that a burglar could climb his wife in his presence and tell him to get over that as well. If this individual is representative of the average gamer and by extension the average citizen, God help us! God help us all!

  38. Re:Fear of online activation? Irrational? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The error you make is that you saying this is a security camera, when its not. Its more like a body cavity search. So imagine every time you left this so called store you got a body cavity search? Not that appealing is it?
    As the the whole piracy thing, um its already cracked and out there. so this whole DRM thing is pointless. Its like having a blast proof door to a room, you having a gapeing hole in the wall.
    Piracy has been a problem with Video Games from before you were born, and will likely never stop. Poor measures like activation servers just make software a time bomb.

    I really thought the gaming industury had come further than the MPAA and RIAA in learning that DRM is ultimelty shooting your own foot. Guess some company's forget easly.

  39. Thanks for the score. by isolationism · · Score: 1

    Allow me to say "arigato gozaimas" on the score tip -- I've heard about it (from the "making of" video) but haven't played nor seen the game played yet. To be honest, I'm tossed between upgrading an AGP video card or just buying a '360 -- I'm not particularly keen on either approach, but I've been hankerin' since I last played System Shock 2, which was a good 3-4 years ago now.

    Say what you will, but Ken Lavine is one of the good guys. I've had the opportunity to have a (brief) exchange with him in the past; he's no-nonsense but similarly no-bullshit; in other words, the kind of guy every nerd would want to work for or have a beer with, or both. Cheers, Ken, for doing the right thing.

  40. torrent? by v1 · · Score: 1

    at 22mb, I am getting a whopping 12k/sec on that zip file they offer. Torrent would sure be nice. Though really I'm surprised they aren't slashdotted.

    --
    I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
  41. Infuriating! by NEOtaku17 · · Score: 1

    I can't believe how many people won't buy the game simply because of the DRM scheme it contains. Guess what... You can get the game on Steam and install it on AS MANY COMPUTERS AS YOU WANT and you don't even need to have the disk when you play!

    1. Re:Infuriating! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "I can't believe how many people won't buy the game simply because of the DRM scheme it contains. Guess what... You can get the game on Steam and install it on AS MANY COMPUTERS AS YOU WANT and you don't even need to have the disk when you play!"

      Actually no you can't, quit spreading misinformation. The Steam version has SecuROM and the (now) 5 activations limit. The only good thing is supposedly the uninstall and get an activation credit sometimes works on the Steam version.

  42. Rootkits are no excuse to pirate! by TheVelvetFlamebait · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    I know with the rootkit, many people will justifiably pirate/refuse to purchase the game.
    If you decide to pirate the game, all you're doing is sending the message that more time and effort is needed to stop/catch/sue pirates, meaning more "rootkits". It's a vicious cycle. Remember: if you decide to pirate, you are minutely responsible for copy protection, DRM, and disproportionate, negligently prepared lawsuits.
    --
    You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
  43. Oh, please, no. by RotHorseKid · · Score: 1

    I say it but once: FSCK you CG violence hipocrites!! The game is friggin ART! I am not ashamed of harvesting my little sisters, but you should be ashamed of harvesting the reputation of millions of gamers out there for some thousand extra sales of your lousy newspaper!

    --
    Nobody writes jokes in base 13. - DNA
  44. Re:Fear of online activation? Irrational? by cliffski · · Score: 1

    sigh.
    this cavity search seems to happen transparently without 99% of the buyers even noticing so hardly a fair comparison. Plus the game has NOT been cracked, just try installing and running the crack to find out what a total failure it is.

    --
    DRM-free indie games for the PC and Mac: Positech Games
  45. Mod parent right though ad personam by Gen.Anti · · Score: 1

    I've been thinking about posting something like this; I, for one, have seen only Trainspotting. It's been interesting sociologically and politically for mostly the same reasons for which I didn't like it. Easy way out... as violence often is. Avoiding violence is violent on yourself and on people who need it to live. Please move along. As for the other poster, it's not satire, it's apotheosis.

  46. The widescreen "issue" by tgibbs · · Score: 1

    The widescreen issue originally was raised by a few widescreen owners who were upset that owners of 4:3 TVs get to see "more" than they do (4:3 TVs show the same horizontal field of view, but more of the ceiling, the floor, and your character's virtual wrist), and who insisted that the game was not "true" widescreen, but just "cropped narrowscreen." Ultimately, the developer responded that the game was in fact developed specifically for widescreen, that the action and gameplay was tuned specifically for a particular field of view, so they chose to cram the entire field of view into the width of the 4:3 display, and chose to open up the screen vertically rather than resort to unsightly letterboxing. Some widescreen owners then complained that the field of view was simply too narrow, causing everything to look "zoomed." A few people reported experiencing "simulator sickness" after playing the game, and attributed to the game's "broken" field of view. In reality, it turns out that the field of view for Bioshock is about 75 degrees. This corresponds pretty well to the fraction of the player's field of vision occupied by the screen at typical viewing distances, which means that the perspective and field of view are correct for objects and characters to appear "actual size"--i.e. the size they would appear if the screen were an actual window into the game world. It may be that the reason that a few people get nauseous after playing the game is that the perspective is simply too realistic.

    In any case, the developer, while not backing away from the position that the field of view of the game is carefully optimized to produce the best play experience, has nevertheless committed to releasing an official patch to allow users to expand the field of view if they find it necessary.

  47. ultraviolent? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have the game and what you do to these "little sisters" is hardly a violent act when compared to things lik e grand theft auto and the like. You can either harvest and destroy the mildly demonic girls or rescue and cleanse them. the cleansing leaves them unharmed but you gain less of the valuable resource they contain than you would from the harvesting. this game is no more violent than any other shooter with blood.

    While my rant may fall on deaf ears I have to say the worry over violence and not horrible parenting practice is becoming very ignorant. usually in my limited readings I've found that the radical claims come from a person who has never taken the time to sit down and play the games they condemn to easily. The closed mindedness of society and the blatant disregard for the truth by most media is becoming insulting to intelligent people.