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Ubuntu On Dell After Four Months
mrcgran sends us to LXer for an interview with John Hull, a manager of the Linux Engineering team at Dell, where he reports on how the Ubuntu machines have been working out for them so far. "Embracing Ubuntu Linux on our desktops and laptops seems to have really raised Dell's visibility within the Linux community. We have been supporting, testing, developing for, and selling Linux for 8+ years here at Dell, but before the Ubuntu announcement, a lot of people didn't know that we did any of that... Previous to our Ubuntu product announcement... we would have a conversations with vendors about pushing Linux support for their hardware, but without a Linux product offering from Dell for that hardware, it was very difficult to convince them to release Linux drivers. That has certainly changed now... The original sales estimates for Ubuntu computers was around 1% of the total sales, or about 20,000 systems annually. The program so far is meeting expectations. Customers are certainly showing their interest and buying systems preloaded with Ubuntu, but it certainly won't overtake Microsoft Windows anytime soon."
Your getting linux!
GENERATION O98346: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig and remove a random number from the generation. T
Is that total units shipped or just consumer units?
...Dell have raised the awareness of Linux to the point where potentials are actually asking if Windows or Linux is installed. Eighteen months ago, that wouldn't have happened. Eighteen months ago people asked if a machine had XP, 2003, ME, 2K, or whatever version of Windows, but hardly ever Linux. I'm a Linux user myself, by preference (and politic, and budget), and advocate it wherever I can. I'm not saying it's for everybody, it might not be, but if you want a toaster, get a toaster. If you want a toaster that deep fries your sunday roast with all the trimmings, give Linux a go. :)
Operation Guillotine is in effect.
It's 40,000 sales that MS missed out on. 20,000 sales that weren't with Windows on Dell 20,000 sales that were Ubuntu on Dell. So, how many chairs will Ballmer throw?
Our lab has been buying Dell servers for a few years now, because they certify the machines as being Linux compatible. Instead of checking the hardware specs against the list of available Linux drivers, I can buy knowing that things will just work. Kudos.
all well and good, but linux or no, i still have serious reservations about buying a system from Dell.
the negative experiences i've had with dell are really not linked to the OS; they're all hardware issues and service issues related to the hardware. show me that they'll support linux equally on the software side *and* that they've stepped up their hardware support, and this will be a bit more interesting.
yeah, this is great news as far as the visibility of the linux community is concerned, but IMO, this changes very, very little about the pre-built PC market.
i'm still gonna build my next linux box.
/. is what happens when geeks talk. get used to it.
Thank our Ubuntu pushing over lords. This kind of demand from a major vendor is just the kind of visibility that Linux needs for hardware makers to finally start working on Linux drivers on their own. With any luck soon suporting linux will be standard and not some kind of "giving to the weirdos" for hardware makers.
You had to ask for Linux in a very different way. Now, they are offering a proper desktop alternative, which wasn't the case before, so when he says they've had Linux for 8+ years, it doesn't tell the whole story. There's a difference between offering Linux, under the table more or less, and offering it as an actual alternative to Windows when you're ordering your new laptop.
Nonetheless, kudos to Dell and here's to hoping more vendors pick up this trend.
ISTR that the distribution that they offered previously was RedHat, probably because it was the "corporate standard". Now that they are offering a friendlier distro, the interest is moving out of the data center and onto the desktop.
A house divided against itself cannot stand.
To be honest, I don't think it has to take over, nor do I think it will. Even Firefox didn't take over IE, but it did have some impact, and Microsoft changed its crappy CSS support to a _slightly_ better one. If Linux achieves ~20% or so it will be much harder for Microsoft to push its proprietary standards, and everyone benefits.
Perhaps Dell should also consider selling these machines with a no OS option? Afterall, by the time a customer has gone to the trouble of replacing Gnome and removing Mono, they may as well have just imaged the drive themselves.
Windows is a one size fits all solution, linux isn't and despite a minority 'turn it into windows' mentality (Hi Miguel) most long-term users think this is a good thing.
What I'd like to see Dell offer is the chance to get both Ubuntu and Windows installed by the factory as a dual-boot system. While I normally use Linux, I need Windows for a few games still. I know, I know, I'm never satisfied. While I'm glad Dell is selling desktops with Linux now, a dual-boot offer would be a great improvement.
As exciting as this (potentially) increased Linux user base can be.. everyone needs to put their junk away and consider the fact that an additional 25,000 users a year is not going to sway the market or convince hardware makers that linux drivers should be routinely distributed. Moving from 1.0% to 1.00125% of the market is not a convincing argument.
Surfing around Dell's website I am unable to find the Linux computers. Maybe it's just me, but it should be there, right next to the big button that lets you buy computers with WinXP instead of Vista.
I tried telling Dell this in their fancy questionaire, but it seems the questionaire won't work with Opera.
SIG: TAKE OFF EVERY 'CAPTAIN'!!
I have a Ubuntu Preload Under warranty from Dell. It runs Feisty Fawn, I love it. I have one little problem. if you load up even a different Linux, you void your warranty, because they have a few proprietary drivers in the machines for some of the hardware, like the Win-modem. So. Here is an interesting question. How do you upgrade from Fiesty Fawn to Gutsy Gibbon without voiding your warranty?
Dell doesn't offer any sytems with Ubuntu preinstalled in the Netherlands. I was looking for a new laptop for my parents, and I managed to convince them to go Linux. So I went to the Dell website, but alas, no such luck. Still, knowing that their hardware will work with Ubuntu was enough for me to go Dell anyway.
It's nice that the community is supporting Dell in this. I personally made sure a friend bought his new laptop from Dell just because of this. My next desktop will certainly be a Dell.
If they really want to get the ball moving they should tune up their customized installation of Ubuntu and have Walt Mossberg review it again.
Help! I'm a slashdot refugee.
Dell for sometime has provided pretty decide web support for Debian. The web pages I've come across have always been enough to get me started when needing to setup a new server. :-)
....for sure it won't overtake windows. there's just one logical argument for that:
you don't get ubuntu systems with MS WORKS preinstalled. hell, that's ONE monster or a downside.
I think Dell still has some work cut out for them before anything "real" happens on their Linux front.
A product has to solve a real world problem AND offer some measurable benefit. So to offer Linux on Dell hardware - server of desktop - solves ONE of the real-world Linux problems: hardware compatibility. But in my view this should only be just the beginning, a good first step. What I am personally looking for is additional benefits on top of plain simple compatibility. Offer me a Linux Laptop that works in all hardware aspects as well as a MacBook, then top it with proven (i.e benchmarked) performance increase. More runtime and bandwidth, faster startup times, additional gadgets or security features, etc. Offer me a software update service that is top-notch (i.e. a distro mirror operated by Dell) and betters the community system. Offer me a software bundle that drives all my hardware seamlessly, i.e. if the Ubuntu distro doesn't have the webcam tool to compete with "Photo Booth", hire 5 programmers and develop it. It's demonstrated real-world betterment over the competition that will sell me for a Dell - compatibility, freedom and $50 off is not enough. So until that time comes, my Linux boxes will be whitebox PCs where I choose the components and my laptop will be a MacBook with a full 'port' install.
--AS
Dell selling a few Linux-on-Laptops at the consumer end makes a lot of sense when you consider they want to grab a bigger chunk of the server market, where Linux holds a great portion of the market share. Get people used to the idea of Linux on Dell, then when they are in the market for a server they come back to what they know. The super reliable Linux experience makes Dell look good. Same angle as RedHat supporting FedoraCore.
~.~
I'm a peripheral visionary.
Why dual boot when you can virtualize? Preinstall an Ubuntu VM on top of Windows OS.
At the cost of a gigabyte of RAM and disk space, it makes hardware drivers a snap, and gives the consumer more flexibility.
Unless you're running arcade games on Ubuntu, I don't see much reason to dual-boot.
I'm kind of interested in hearing what's caused the turnaround for Dell over the past year or two.
Dell has more or less had a reputation of being deep in the pockets of Microsoft and Intel. It was no secret that Intel was giving Dell huge perks for not selling systems with AMD chips, and I'd be surprised if Microsoft wasn't offering similar perks for keeping Linux off of consumer desktops.
Now, we're seeing dell open up a lot more options to consumers.
So what happened? Did the payola from Intel and Microsoft stop? Was there a management shakeup? Are they trying to re-focus their image as a serious business vendor to step into the void left by IBM? Or are they just emphasizing "choice" to avoid losing any more ground to Apple (this theory strongly lends itself to their decision to distance themselves from MS because of the Vista backlash)
Or maybe they're finally waking up to the fact that "nerd cred" seriously does sell computers. I would credit OS X's acceptance within the community as being instrumental to the sort of success Apple's been seeing over the past few years -- OS 7,8, and 9 left them with a pretty bad reputation that they needed to shed themselves of. When the guy who's fixed your PC multiple times recommends getting a mac, it lends some serious credibility to the brand. Given that Dell's a pretty generic brand, I doubt that anyone has serious qualms about buying from them, but it's a whole lot better than having a negative brand-reputation, or being badmouthed by everyone in the industry. (See also: Article yesterday about AOL losing $100 billion)
-- If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done? - Uli's moose
So, has anyone actually bought one of these machines from Dell? Have they employed a legion of call centers to address Linux-related issues and problems (mostly (l)user-created I'm sure)? I doubt actually a legion would be needed considering they have a small market share and most users who buy a Linux box would be more adept at self-diagnosing problems. But, I would be interested to see statistics on how many calls come in about Linux boxes and how many come in on Win boxes.
Do they have trained folks who know Linux commands and system organization or do they follow a series of point-and-click diagnose screens like most Win Tech Support centers. I would be interested to hear about this...
...and it should be known by now
"Customers are certainly showing their interest and buying systems preloaded with Ubuntu, but it certainly won't overtake Microsoft Windows anytime soon."
I recently bought a Dell Inspiron 6400 pre-installed Ubuntu (and very good it is too), but looking at the comment above, it is not hard to wonder why, as every time you look at Dell Linux machine options, plastured alone the top is 'Dell recommends Microsoft Vista'.
It is almost as if they are going through the 'Linux' motions half-heartedly.
Typical example found HERE
I, for the first time actually got a friend setup on Ubuntu a couple of weeks ago. Normally, being of the Microsoft persuasion, I'd recommend Windows if nothing else for its generally universal familiarity if nothing else (all the other PC's in the house were WinBoxes), but the machine she was given was free and not very good. The Windows installed on it was Win ME that wouldn't get even to the desktop unless in safe mode, so it had to go, but it was not capable of running XP to any degree of sanity (128 mb ram, celeron processor, etc), and indeed there was the licensing issue too.
A perfect opportunity for Ubuntu I thought! Or not, as it turned out.
I downloaded and burnt the latest CD image and installed it. Everything was installed fine, except the network card was not detected, rendering the machine even less useful than the butchered ME installation that was on it before. She only wanted to browse the net and read GMail basically, so without a network connection, the laptop was now as good as a large paper-weight.
Now, this is by no means a flame against Ubuntu at all. Before it turned out Ubuntu was compatible, I was thinking to myself that if there's one area Ubuntu could really grow in is the "too old to run Windows x/y/z" which sets the hardware requirement bar higher & higher with each release.
Despite what Microsoft say, Vista is not suited to all PC's - but arguably, Ubuntu is suited to run on almost anything assuming you don't mind common commercial apps/games aren't going to run for newbies (for obvious reasons).
So, if I had one suggestion for Ubuntu/Linux is please, get it to run on shite hardware! Refurbished machines are overlooked if you ask me as many people really can't be bothered to buy new hardware, and Windows really isn't so suited for them in many cases.
throw new NoSignatureException();
What's the point of that? You would end up paying for MS whether you used it or not, as the Windows price will be added to the price of the box. Ubuntu is FREE. Also, it is general practice by Dell not to sell virgin (unloaded) machines, so if you want to load it yourself with Windows, you can now.
"I like to skate on the other side of the ice"
I was hoping to get a Ubuntu laptop here in Norway.
So far - no such luck. I'm looking forward to that day, so that I can just order one. But until they ship it, it's difficult.
Hey DELL! We norwegians want Ubuntu on our laptops too!
"Rune Kristian Viken" - http://www.nwo.no - arca
I bought a 1720 about a month ago with a Dell Wireless-n minicard and I've still not been able to make wireless work properly. I'll admit I'm still new to Linux, but I've managed to get everything else to work the way I want it. I've followed every tutorial on the net I can find and tried Ubuntu, Fedora, and Suse. Nothing seems to work.
Name...That...Autocomplete!
As a PC assembler, and not a software house, I think you're griping towards the wrong target. Dell could probably afford to give a portion of the profits to the Ubuntu group, but as far as in-house development of the kernel and OS, I think yer boned.
IHBT, FSCK
--
I agree with you that the Linux development needs to be continued. They need to get the codecs in for one. I am more than able to do that myself. But if I am trying to get someone else to look at them, it is hard to say, yeah, and after you get it, let me finish installing everything. I buy one, but with better support and a more complete out of the box experience, I could sell 8 of them. Dell has a huge opportunity here, which is hiring the Linux evangelists as a sales team, but it is going to require a complete system out of the box, not out of the box and a few websites. Also, they need to continue to show that they are committed to this by offering a new computer setup, or deals, even if it is a minor thing like free shipping, every once in awhile. It also needs a link from the home page. It shows average users, that this isn't a weird alley of Dell's website, but a legitimate part of Dell that they believe and will support and are not just throwing meat to OSS dogs. But price I think is not a big thing. Yeah, keep costs down and be competitive, but Linux can beat Windows even if the costs are the same as long as Dell uses everything Linux has and are not scared of Ballmer's ramblings about patents. Take the $50 you save and put it towards developing or as a lawsuit war chest so you can put in everything that will make Ubuntu run as well as it can.
Dell sells hardware and resells software. They make their money on the hardware. They WANT to sell machines, they care far less about software.
So Dell was faced with a simple problem, they had X customers, Y (where Y is a subset of X) wanted windows on their machine, Z (where Z is a subset of X) wanted linux. The linux customer was not happy with Dells offering and was even taking its business elsewhere. When Z grew large enough, Dell no longer wanted to loose that number of customers. So they started selling linux.
It helped that both MS and Intel got into trouble with the law, but mostly it is just a story about demand and supply, the customers demand, Dell supplies. What do you know, sometimes capatalism works.
As for reputation, I actualy meet people who refuse to buy cheaper AMD hardware because they are "clones" and instead buy compaq. Oh the irony.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Personally, I would like to know from people who have system76 boxes, as they've done Ubuntu pre-installed across all of their systems, not some hidden option (you know, publicly placed down in the dark basement, across a moat with live alligators, in a locked file cabinet...) on their website for a laptop or two.
Anyone have experience with System76?
--
Given enough personal experience, all stereotypes are shallow.
Ubuntu support older Dell hardware very well also...
http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?from=R40&_trksid=m37&satitle=Dell+Ubuntu
Oh wait, you were talking about Dell supporting Ubuntu, not the other way around.
Dell's only selling 2M boxes a year these days? (signs onto eTrade; Sell Sell Sell)
...time issues being the constraint. Actually, time constraints was another reason I tried Ubuntu as XP/ME would've needed patching to high-heaven etc, and as all that she needed was a internet terminal with some basic multimedia right out of the box without needing to worry about factory-install security, Ubuntu seemed to fit the bill perfectly.
Next time I'll keep that link in mind.
throw new NoSignatureException();
http://www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/linux_3x?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs
Sadly,just like before Dell started, any geek with a brain will have to pay the Microsoft tax and wipe the drive if you want a Dell at a decent price. Unless they love Dell SO much they are willing to overpay for lower spec hardware just for the privilege of Ubuntu. The prices they are charging for what you are getting is just crazy.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
LoL
Are there any "Flame of the " awards here on Slashdot?
P.S. I really feel that government has to force Windows appear on bills as separate item, so that people (1) will see that they pay extra and (2) will see how much they really are paying for Windows.
All hope abandon ye who enter here.
Imagine that.
Eight years, and I still have my choice of 1 - 14" laptop in the small business section. And I can't even get there from the main page unless I know enough to type in the Linux URL. And then I get a paragraph explaining that I might not want this unless I'm an advanced user and a link back to the Windows stuff.
I'm surprised they weren't in the basement in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying 'Beware of the Leopard'.
[sarcasm]Wow, I never thought I would ever see the polar opposite of Twitter posting on Slashdot[/sarcasm]
All sarcasm aside, the sales for systems with Ubuntu will not fall. I think Dell made the correct decision on this. Creative is committed to releasing drivers for their X-Fi line of soundcards. When more computer manufacturers start selling systems with any distribution of GNU/Linux, more applications (both closed and open source) will be made for GNU/Linux. The support for hardware will also increase. Although Vista isn't a failure yet, Microsoft needs to fix all of the bugs otherwise it will be a failure. That is how they need to compete, not using FUD as if they were related to Twitter or something.
Now that GNU/Linux has just about matured for the home market it will be a viable competitor and hopefully this will cause Microsoft to wake up and continue to improve their products such as Vista.
"Dual boot is so 20th Century. The modern solution is virtualization dude, it is time to wake up"
was Re:What about dual boot?
davecb5620@gmail.com
"What I'd like to see Dell offer .. Ubuntu and Windows .. as a dual-boot system"
.. :)
Not till hell freezes over, you see it's against the OEM license which only allows minimum commitment payments per-system on a single Operating System machine. Unless any of the MS monitors here know any different
Re:What about dual boot?
davecb5620@gmail.com
How about Dell selling a Linux MCE Ubuntu box as a hi-spec multi-media center. They would literally fly off the shelves ...
davecb5620@gmail.com
I just want a laptop with a good screen.
Right now I use a four-year-old Dell Inspiron i8600 with WUXGA.
I'm salivating over a Core 2 with VT-x.
But Dell only offers the vanilla models with Ubuntu.
Yes I could install Ubuntu myself. But I'd really not pay the Monoposoft tax again.
How about forcing backhanders from Symantec, etc to appear - these are the reason WinBoxen are cheaper than the Linux equivalent
Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
According to your logic, then why doesn't Windows satisfy everyone's needs, and thus take over Apple's share of users? Because they have different needs. Slackware users have different needs than Gentoo users, who both have different needs than Ubuntu users.
Gimme some examples what is missing from your SUSE.
Patents Drive Free Software as Hurricanes Drive Construction Industry
It is time to put to bed the idea that Linux runs on shite hardware. There might be some truth in that (depending on degree of shite) if you're talking about the kernel, but if you're talking a recent major distro with either KDE or Gnome desktop, just forget running it on old hardware. The Puppy Linux distro the parent refers to doesn't use either.
Loose lips lose spit.
As the article hints, we should be expecting a wider variety of options for computers equipped with Linux in the not-so-distant future. This is mostly due to Dell working with their wireless hardware providers to release drivers to kernel.org, and also because of AMD opening up their fglrx drivers. I strongly believe that once AMD finishes opening their drivers, more game developers will code in OpenGL and OpenAL instead of just DirectX, and thus result in easier times porting games from Windows to both Linux and Macs. So, is it safe to say that Mac users will benefit from this too then?
Then there's also PC-BSD's PBI format http://www.pcbsd.org/content/view/20/26/ I personally haven't used it yet but will be trying out later this week.
by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
I must say, I've always thought Linux's desktops sucked. However over the last few years Gnome and KDE have improved exponentially. I currently have Ubuntu 7.10 installed and it really works great. Sure there are some quirks here and there and it's not quite ready for the everyday user, but it's getting there. At the same time, Microsoft has been slacking on their new Vista OS. Originally it was touted to have tons more features than it currently has. The other day, someone handed me a Vista laptop to fix loaded with viruses and spyware and I thought, "Now wait a minute, this isn't supposed to happen in Vista!". Perhaps Vista's SP1 will vastly improve it. I don't know. But if it doesn't and this keeps up, I predict Linux will eventually take a sizable percentage of users away from Windows within the next 3-5 years. I also believe this is why MS is eventually going to try to pull a SCO special.
Parent is informative and interesting, one way to avoid MS tax by reusing licenses. Are half the mods here dropouts from reading comprehension class? Good thing the downmods didn't affect anyone's karma.
404555974007725459910684486621289147856453481154 in hex is "You sank my Battleship?"
[GPG key in journal]
No a Gutsy Upgrade will not void your warranty. HOWEVER. Your Dial-up Phone modem will stop working so says a Dell Linux Tech.
Ubuntu is one of those free loading distributions, why aren't people supporting distributions that actually help to move Linux forward?
In my mind Red Hat, Novell and Debian are to Linux as Pink Floyd, Lead Zeppelin and the Rolling Stones are to Rock n' Roll.
Ubuntu can best be compared to Britney Spears; to get noticed they both showed off some pussy, they both attract young kids and they both suck.
- Eric
FYI:
Slackware would be Aerosmith (How many times have you thought you saw the last release and they have one more)
Gentoo would be Pearl Jam (Commands respect, 'nough said)
Yellow Dog would be Prince (It's gay; plays different processors, I mean instruments)
Linus would be Lennon (They are both revolutionaries)
Respect the Constitution
Regardless of the actual sales impact of offering Linux desktops, it does make Dell look good.
Plenty of normal, technically disinclined users turn to their geek friends for advice on what system to buy, rather than their other normal friends, so I suspect that being a well-liked brand in the minds of geeks should help their general sales as well.
at the factory over a Linux host, and let people who want to install Windows or whatever put it on the machine from inside the VMware Server wizard... or preinstall it for people who don't already have an installable XP copy. They can preinstall and set up SAMBA at the same time to make it easy to access Linux files from the Windows VM.
Dual boot means to me "the next app I need will require a reboot". (the dual boot corollary to Murphy's Law) This ended my first experiment with Linux after the second week, my first full-time use of a Linux desktop was with FC2 and Win4Lin 9.x .
With virtualization, the stability of the Windows guest is basically the stability of the host doing the heavy lifting. Which is how I have a reliable and stable Windows 98SE running my Eudora mail client. If VMware Server can stabilize 98SE, it can almost certainly stabilize Vista. The other advantage is a shared clipboard, so I can cut/paste from e-mail into any Linux app running. With SAMBA running, I can keep my Eudora mailboxes and all the rest of the data I generate in the Linux filesystem, meaning when I run recollindex, ALL the user data files on the computer get indexed, and I can use either Windows or Linux apps on all of my data. (even at the same time, if one is careful)
If Dell does this, they'll probably have a lot less customer service issues with the Windows part of the box and customers who can run just about any Windows or Linux application on data.
Tech Public Policy stuff
Yeah right, we all know fat fucktards support Micro$haft Windoze and despise GNU/Linux so cut the fucking bullshit act fat fucktard. All fat fucktards seem to support fucktarded OSes, just take a look at that fat chair-throwing fucktard Ballmer.
Remember fat fucktard, anytime you post I will remind everyone how much of a fat fucktard you really are. Eventually someone in their right mind will mod your whole fucking account into fucking oblivion which is what fat fucktards like you should do by slitting your fucking wrists. Once all you fat fucktards do so, then there will not be a shortage of food ever again.
If you flame me or ignore my post, then you will prove just how fucking right I am fat fucktard.
In the 1990s Dell was offering SysV-R4 on Dell hardware (I have a copy). Unfortunately they dropped the program because people were buying the software and not running it on Dell hardware. Had they sold it installed the results might have been more pleasing.
A 100% pure Java environment run in Sun's runtime has its limitations. Various versions have had major deficiencies, such as lack of any way to determine available space for storing files (like statvfs() on POSIX) and lack of support within Sun's runtime for input devices other than the first keyboard and the first mouse (such as joysticks).
And how does deployment of a Java application developed by a hobbyist work? If you use Java Web Start to deploy your app, and you haven't paid for a code signing certificate that can be traced to a trusted commercial CA, Java Web Start security will throw a java.lang.SecurityException every time your app tries to open or save user documents on the local hard drive.