Nigerian Government Nixes Microsoft's Mandriva Block

Personally... by Anonymous Coward · 2007-11-09 04:26 · Score: -1, Troll

... I'd rather not have a powerful Unix OS in the hands of future Nigerian scam artists.

Re:Personally... by jellomizer · 2007-11-09 04:33 · Score: 3, Funny

Good thing is is not Unix... It is Linux.

To be realistice Windows 2000 and Up have been rather stable reliable systems... So if you were a spammer you will be able to get out just as many spams with windows as you would with Linux or Unix. Secondly Linux can be downloaded for free so if windows sucked that bad they will use Linux.

It is not like we are giving them Macs... [Ducks] :)

--
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
Re:Personally... by Anonymous Coward · 2007-11-09 05:13 · Score: 0

>> To be realistice Windows 2000 and Up have been rather stable reliable systems...

That's the funniest thing I've heard all day.

>> So if you were a spammer you will be able to get out just as many spams with windows as you would with Linux or Unix

Really? I bet a $500 machine w/ gentoo or BSD that I compile can smoke any commercial Exchange server that costs lest than $20k

I'd put 5k on it if you want.
Re:Personally... by Volante3192 · 2007-11-09 06:13 · Score: 2, Insightful

I'm sorta tired about the XP bashing.

I've used XP for quite some time now, willingly (I'm too lazy to deal with wine, drivers and the like and I like Portal...) and with exceptions of power outages or certain installs, I've managed uptimes in the 100+ day realm. Current record's 180 that was ruined by an above outage.

Course, the obvious difference between me and a regular user is I use common sense when surfing the net. No fancy animated cursors, no banzai buddy, no new.net shit.

Windows XP, in my personal experience, can be a very stable, reliable operating system. And for me, it just. works. Now if you've got someone doing all the above shit, of course you're going to tank your OS. BUT if they wanted to do all the same crap on a Linux box, I'd bet they'd find a way to tank that too. All boils down to the user.

That in mind, I'm not touching the Exchange comment. I know better.
Re:Personally... by jellomizer · 2007-11-09 06:19 · Score: 0

O.K.

Let me guess you still in school huh.
These $20k systems are $20k becuase they support C R A Z Y thinks like Hot Swapable RAID Drives, Duel CPUs, Large Cache and Bus Bandwith, Huge amount of memory. So yes your Baby Linux box will smoke this huge system for your piddly load of what you and your dorm mates and you closest group of best friends can handle. But if you are getting a huge load you $500 PC will cringe to a halt (Say form a Slashdot effect) While the Larger $20k will still keep going...

Next Windows is actualy just as stable as Linux (seriously) it is just the fact that Microsoft was stupid enough to make most of its apps to run at Root or Admin Level for them to work correctly. You can Crash a Linux box as Root much faster then you crash a windows box as Admin. Secondly you probably havent delt much with using Windows Server Adition as a server and actually using it as such. Usually when things get sour is when you get Windows server stick it on a huge box and then start using it like a work station. It is a server you set it up and leave it alone except for maintenance.

Is it not that Linux is bad or anything it is just that Windows and Linux if you look at them non Zealosly or with preconsived notions are actaully fairly close is stability and in performace.

As a Ex-Linux zealot I will tell you the following. If you are useing Linux and you did someting as root causing it to crash you blame yourself, Linux Flexibility allows you to do bad things but also lets you to do ingenious things... If you are using windows and it crashes (doing something simular) its Microsoft Fault they should have desinged it better.

Over the past 7 Years I have seen more Linux, Solaris, Mac OS X crashes then I have seen Windows Crashes.

--
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
Re:Personally... by geekboy642 · 2007-11-09 06:25 · Score: 5, Informative

I want to mod you troll, but you're exactly right. So I'll reply to you instead and remove the temptation.

XP is genuinely a fairly competent system. If you like closed source. And six-year-old privilege-escalation vulnerabilities. And Defective Restriction Management. And a vendor that tries to destroy every free alternative to their product with BS patent/copyright lawsuits. And supporting a convicted monopolist. And...

Also, how on earth do you have such high uptime if every monthly patch requires a reboot? You're not...unpatched, are you?

--
Just another "DOJ fascist authoritarian totalitarian bootlicker" -- Zeio
Re:Personally... by Volante3192 · 2007-11-09 06:52 · Score: 1

A modicum of common sense (and a decent firewall) can keep an XP system safe even unpatched. I'm not saying Windows is perfect (I have plenty of issues with aspects of it's design), but what I am saying is treated well, it can be stable and reliable.

Also note, my ONLY point was about stability. Not any aspect of Microsoft's business practices which are a whole different quagmire.
Re:Personally... by sammyF70 · 2007-11-09 06:53 · Score: 1

That's probably the most confusing (and confused) post I've ever read on slashdot. Basically, what you're saying is that Linux would crash more often than windows if it was designed in a way that was as prone as windows to crash? Incidentally, either you don't work much with windows, or you're lying when you say you've seen more Linux system than Windows systems crash in the past 7 years ... or those were your own systems and you always logged in as root, and did everything possible to actually crash the Linux systems, while desperately trying not to crash the windows one.

--
"DRM is like the Ford Pinto: it's a smooth ride, right up the point at which it explodes and ruins your day."-C.Doctorow
Re:Personally... by jeffasselin · 2007-11-09 07:05 · Score: 4, Insightful

XP is fairly stable on its own. From the point of view of a regular user, it's not too bad.

The problems I have with it are more of a technical point of view, about how it's not very solid, hard to troubleshoot, how to cure it if it gets borked (especially by spyware or trojans), and how stupidly hard it is to reinstall and make the new install workable. The inability to transfer software from one installation to another is very annoying. The way everything is stored in monolithic files which can only be edited through the MS interface (the registry) is a constant issue. If it gets corrupted or deleted, you're fucked. There are ways to recover, but it's not simple, and doesn't always work.

Comparatively, on a Mac OS X machine, I can backup 3 folders and I get everything: apps, data, configurations. If a pref gets hosed, it's a single text file which I can consult, edit, or delete (similar to how it is on Linux which I also like a lot). I can rebuild an OS X machine in little more than an hour, whereas Windows reinstalls take easily 3 hours including the entire patching process (which even starting from SP2 is over 100 updates now), and most software isn't even installed at that point, where with OS X, 99% of the software that I backed up is functional.

It's not quite as good, but almost on a Linux machine. grab $home, /etc, a package list, and off you go reinstalling quite easily.

--
If he explores all forms and substances Straight homeward to their symbol-essences; He shall not die.
Re:Personally... by itlurksbeneath · 2007-11-09 07:15 · Score: 4, Insightful

I've managed uptimes in the 100+ day realm Obviously you're not installing the Windows XP critical patches that leak out of Redmond every 3 or 4 weeks.

--
Have you ever considered piracy? You'd make a wonderful Dread Pirate Roberts.
Re:Personally... by Thalagyrt · 2007-11-09 07:50 · Score: 1

Not to mention the guy writes like he just graduated 2nd grade...

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Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo!
Re:Personally... by snoyberg · 2007-11-09 08:13 · Score: 2

Windows XP, in my personal experience, can be a very stable, reliable operating system. And for me, it just. works. Now if you've got someone doing all the above shit, of course you're going to tank your OS. BUT if they wanted to do all the same crap on a Linux box, I'd bet they'd find a way to tank that too. All boils down to the user.
I disagree. On Linux, I can create an account, install any software I want to run into my home directory, install all forms of spyware and malware, and if I really mess things up, worse case scenario is to delete the home directory and start again. On Windows, you need admin access to install most programs (based on what I've seen of coworkers without admin access).

In other words, the design of a *nix system seems to me to be much more stable for the system overall.

--
Thank God for evolution.
Re:Personally... by snoyberg · 2007-11-09 08:16 · Score: 1

Not to mention the guy writes like he just graduated 2nd grade...
I'm in second grade, you insensitive clod!

--
Thank God for evolution.
Re:Personally... by turgid · 2007-11-09 09:04 · Score: 1

I thought that if you were MCSE (Minesweeper Certified Solitaire Expert) you could define uptime as infinite as long as you rebooted once a week on a Sunday night as planned.

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Stick Men
Re:Personally... by Anonymous Coward · 2007-11-09 09:45 · Score: 0, Insightful

I disagree. On Linux, I can create an account, install any software I want to run into my home directory, install all forms of spyware and malware, and if I really mess things up, worse case scenario is to delete the home directory and start again. You're missing his point, though. Smart users don't get spyware. It really isn't all that cumbersome these days to have a basic firewall and antivirus running 24/7. I don't have to pay much attention to either the vast majority of the time; in fact, the only time I do pay attention to either is to open a port for a game - I haven't seen a virus for years thanks to running firefox with noscript and simply being a smart user. Most anti-viruses and firewalls also don't consume many resources -- at most both combined use ~50mb of ram.
I've personally kept an XP system up for almost a year when it was shut off, not by crashing, but by a power failure in my house during a bad storm. I only reboot to install security updates if I personally consider them to apply directly to me. The majority of the time, security flaws are already blocked by my NAT router and/or firewall.

Having said that flaimbait as a random AC -- I do actually use Linux (Ubuntu 7.10 these days, used to be Debian unstable) on my main machine. The vast majority of the problems with Windows, however, are entirely based on the stupidity of its user base. That's not necessarily Microsoft's fault - with 95% of the user base, they're bound to have the most idiots as well. Theres a thousand things you can bash Windows (or Microsoft in general) for - but stability due to spyware is not one of them anymore. You can have the most secure prison in the world, but if someone leaves the keys in the lock it's all for nothing.
Re:Personally... by trewornan · 2007-11-09 10:03 · Score: 2, Informative

Duel CPU : you closest group of friends : form a Slashdot effect : actualy : havent : delt : Adition : non Zealously : preconsived : actaully : useing : simular : desinged : then I have

You know, I don't like to judge people by the odd spelling mistake or bit of dodgy grammar. We all make mistakes and it's not like spelling is generally all that important in making your writing understandable. However the number of spelling mistakes in your post (I won't even start on the grammar) makes you sound like an idiot. If you have dyslexia or English isn't your mother tongue, use a spell checker, if you're just stupid then don't post.
Re:Personally... by BillOfThePecosKind · 2007-11-09 12:03 · Score: 2, Insightful

You can have the most secure prison in the world, but if someone leaves the keys in the lock it's all for nothing.
I completely agree, but why the hell would you give the keys to any old person who walks into the prison? You can agrue now that you should just turn off admin privileges and you can no longer run into this sort of problem, but how many people who use Windows know how to do that, not only that but how many people do you think know that it is even possible? I like Linux because (at least in the distros I have installed and used) you aren't admin to begin with, and being a Linux noob it was a pain to figure out how to become root and do various things. This hopefully prevents the "idiot user" from destroying anything and if they try to figure out how to become root they get plenty (in my case at least) of warnings of why they need to be VERY careful. Just my two cents anyway.
Re:Personally... by looseSpark · 2007-11-09 14:39 · Score: 1

The vast majority of the problems with Windows, however, are entirely based on the stupidity of its user base.

I've heard this kind of comment many times and used it often myself but upon hearing it this time it prompted some thoughts that hit me more strongly than before. I hope I will be indulged writing them here.

You see, it occurred to me that, although we throw around blame casually and, often-times, tongue-in-cheekily, it seems a bit of a cop-out to be really blaming the user for breaking a system when, after all, it is we, the software engineers and system designers, who so kindly provided then with the ability to break it in the software itself in the first place!

There should be no reason for a basic user to go on a computer course just in order to check their emails, surf the web, write letters, do their personal accounts and edit a few digital photographs. There should also be no reason why a person doing that should ever end up hosing their operating system, but it still happens.

Truthfully, the majority of computer users are not really stupid at all--many of them are, in fact, quite clever (perhaps they don't have the tech smarts like we do but smart in other ways - and I challenge anyone here to say honestly that they have never accidentally hosed a system, Windows or Linux--I know I have... both). Nonetheless, most users will still, at some point, have to deal with a malware problem or a broken system due to their own neglect or some wrong action. But why does this happen? Why, indeed, should it happen at all? If the users are not stupid there has to be another explanation...

Despite the complexity of building good software, I find myself wondering why it is still possible for a user to break an operating system. Is impossible to design and build an operating system that is unbreakable, even if the average user tried to really hard (notwithstanding dropping the computer or erasing the hard drive with a magnet)? Difficult maybe, but surely not impossible. Theoretically, it should be possible to create an OS that knows what actions would break it and try to prevent it happening. At the very least, it should be fairly simple to prevent some of the more obvious ways to hose a system. Some progress is being been made in this area but we have not yet reached the ideal.

I suppose for some users (especially you, dear readers) the ability to mess up an OS is a design feature, not a bug and you would complain loudly if the OS designers ever prevented you from doing whatever you wanted to do to the OS (including hosing it if you really wanted) but we are a distinct minority; the default behaviour of an OS should be to assume the user will break whatever is breakable and prevent it from happening (in a sensible way)--and make the expert opt-in deliberately to operate in unsafe mode, and do so in such a way that the casual user would find it difficult to find and make that choice.

I am certain a lot of this is obvious to you and I know it is not as simple as it sounds Further more, a lot of research and effort has gone into improving OS usability and reliability and I don't wish in any way to belittle these efforts; but I do think, however, that part of the problem stems from a culture of blaming the user for when things go wrong rather than, as system designers and developers, taking responsibility to ensure it can't go wrong in the first place.
Re:Personally... by ozmanjusri · 2007-11-09 15:33 · Score: 1
Oh for fuck's sake, will you astroturfers please just give up?
Last week's fault log:
- E6300 Workstation, 2GB, Intel 82545, XPP SP2, fully patched;
  Used "Open Recent" in SoundBooth to reopen 90MB .wav file from the server. Screen blanked twice and computer rebooted without warning. About 10 minutes editing in Media Studio Pro lost.
- IPS Dual Opteron, 2GB Reg ECC, Quadro FX5500, XPP SP2, fully patched;
  Set to batch convert client-supplied video overnight. Computer was found at login prompt in the morning and only 110 minutes of the batch completed. On the second attempt, the computer became unresponsive at the 110 minute mark, remained unresponsive for several minutes, then reset. Decided that section of video could be abandoned. Remainder of video batch processed ok
- HP NC6400 laptop, 1GB, XP SP2, fully patched;
  Running custom frame capture app overnight unattended. Capture had failed after about 4 hours, Error message popups every 2 seconds "{Delayed Write Failed} Windows was unable to save all the data for the file . The data has been lost." Computer hangs on reboot and has to be hard reset. Rebooting stopped popups, and laptop seems to work normally. A second attempt the following night worked.
XP may be fine if you don't use it, but it's fragile when you put it under load.
--
"I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
Re:Personally... by doktorjayd · 2007-11-09 15:38 · Score: 1

you've used install in two different contexts:

'installing' something in /home/user/ is really just unpacking an archive or copying a binary there.

'installing' someting in windows typically adds stuff to the registry, drops things into a system wide directory ( gargh, even some crap dropping shit into $WINDOWS\System32 ! ).

you can quite easily just unzip a windows binary to your own Documents And Settings\Desktop, and run any binary you want, just as you do by extracting something somewhere in your *nix home dir, 'admin' rights or not.

conversely, you can sudo/su - install something system wide in linux with a simple privilege escalation.

problem is, in XP ( particularly Home ), users already have 'Admin' or 'Power User' rights, which typically lets em bork up whatever they want without even prompting for privilege escalation.

i agree with your overall sentiment though: the design of *nix is for a much more stable overall system, but probably not for the reasons you outline. ( eg: i can install a web server in my linux ~/bin, but i wont be able to bind to port 80 without admin/root rights. windows will happily oblige though...)
Re:Personally... by Lefty2446 · 2007-11-09 19:25 · Score: 1

If you'd have moderated him troll i'd have metaz moderated _you_ "unfair". His comment is on topic, and not a flame or a troll.

Adrian, YMMV.
Re:Personally... by geekboy642 · 2007-11-09 20:23 · Score: 1

Well, duh. That's pretty much the whole point of my comment.

--
Just another "DOJ fascist authoritarian totalitarian bootlicker" -- Zeio
Re:Personally... by dbIII · 2007-11-09 21:16 · Score: 1

Casual MS Windows users have a different definition of uptime to Sysadmins. They define 100 days of uptime as turning it on every day and turning it off at night 100 times. The things in the server rooms often have an MS operating system but usually not a hobby one designed for home computers - and shuffling the tasks off to a different system, applying updates and rebooting are a lot more important than uptime for the sake of it.
Re:Personally... by ydrol · 2007-11-10 05:45 · Score: 1

Partaking of the liquor perhaps?
Re:Personally... by ORBAT · 2007-11-11 00:07 · Score: 1

Let me guess, you never went to school in the first place.

Wow, just wow! by Bryansix · 2007-11-09 04:26 · Score: 4, Interesting

Microsoft really did try to Bribe them. That's crazy. I hope this makes the mainstream media.

Re:Wow, just wow! by ArcherB · 2007-11-09 04:36 · Score: 4, Funny

My question is this:

Did he get to keep the bribe?

--
There is no "I disagree" mod for a reason. Flamebait, Troll, and Overrated are not substitutes.
Re:Wow, just wow! by jellomizer · 2007-11-09 04:38 · Score: 0

Ummm Sooo. This is common practice. Even in America or [Gasp] Europe!
Most bribary laws punish the person to accecpts the bribes not the person who gives the bribes, unless it is extortion. Bringing Clients to an expensive luch, giving them tickes to a sports game. It happends, and because the laws are targted at the reciever not the giver there is no reason for Microsoft not to try. So they lost the Deal, They wouldn't have gotten it in the first place if they didn't try. IT is really a no loss situation for them and it gave them a better chance of winning. It is not big news... Sorry.

--
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
Re:Wow, just wow! by Anonymous Coward · 2007-11-09 04:43 · Score: 2, Interesting

You seriously place buying lunch as equivalent to giving $400,000?
Re:Wow, just wow! by Anonymous Coward · 2007-11-09 04:53 · Score: 0

Any way to prosecute? If Congress can slap Yahoo! around...
Re:Wow, just wow! by Z00L00K · 2007-11-09 04:55 · Score: 2, Informative

In some countries it's also illegal to try to bribe someone. In Sweden it's under the name "bestickning".

--
If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
Re:Wow, just wow! by stangbat · 2007-11-09 04:57 · Score: 1

You just described lobbying. I wonder why we don't lock up all the congressmen/women. Hmmm...I can't decided if I'm being sarcastic or not...
Re:Wow, just wow! by Chris+Mattern · 2007-11-09 05:33 · Score: 1

Dude, it's Nigeria. It only makes the news if they *didn't* get bribed.

Chris Mattern
Re:Wow, just wow! by Hatta · 2007-11-09 05:34 · Score: 1

The article seems to indicate that the company that supplied the computers was paid off to do this. That's not really a bribe, it's just business. If they were paying off the government officials to mandate Windows on these computers, that would be a bribe.

--
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
Re:Wow, just wow! by Znork · 2007-11-09 05:57 · Score: 4, Insightful

"That's not really a bribe, it's just business."

It's Microsofts standard way of bribing, you mean. Offering 'marketing incentives' is the way they've done everything from get people on certain ISO boards to making sure PC makers dont install Linux.

They seem to get away with it on some technicality, even if they couldn't get away with giving actual money directly.

In the end it's a legal grey area. For some companies and some situations it would be perfectly fine, but in the case of the convicted monopolist, I dont think there's any doubt that it's their practice of getting around legal language prohibiting certain anti-competetive behaviour.

And morally, it's reprehensible and easily equatable with bribery. Both for those accepting the money and for those giving it.
Re:Wow, just wow! by Kadin2048 · 2007-11-09 06:01 · Score: 4, Informative

Ummm Sooo. This is common practice. Even in America or [Gasp] Europe!
Most bribary laws punish the person to accecpts the bribes not the person who gives the bribes, unless it is extortion. Bringing Clients to an expensive luch, giving them tickes to a sports game. It happends, and because the laws are targted at the reciever not the giver there is no reason for Microsoft not to try. So they lost the Deal, They wouldn't have gotten it in the first place if they didn't try. IT is really a no loss situation for them and it gave them a better chance of winning. It is not big news... Sorry. No, you're incorrect. It is illegal for a U.S. firm to bribe foreign officials, even if the bribery is legal in that country. This is because of a piece of legislation called the "Foreign Corrupt Practices Act," or FCPA.

Now personally, setting aside Microsoft, I think the FCPA is stupid, and tends to just put U.S. businesses at a disadvantage versus businesses from other countries that don't try to apply their own laws extra-territorially, or just generally have a more relaxed attitude towards bribery. It's a piece of legislation that was made at at time when the U.S. world leadership position was a lot stronger; now, it's just shooting ourselves in the foot.

But anyway, despite being stupid, the FCPA is law, and I strongly suspect that what Microsoft did was blatantly illegal under it. Not that they'll be punished or anything, but it's illegal.

--
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
Re:Wow, just wow! by Rei · 2007-11-09 06:09 · Score: 5, Interesting

The thing is, in poor countries like Nigeria (especially in Nigeria), bribes are essentially standard. It's hard to get anything done in some countries (Nigeria included) without at least small bribes. What generally makes news is when the bribes are discovered by the western press. That doesn't change the fact that almost every business that works there is going to get dragged into that bribery system in one way or another if they wish to operate.

The really big surprise isn't the bribes. It's that the Nigerian government intervened to *stop* the bribes. Now, that could just mean that they didn't get their cut, but...

--
I have the memory of an elephant. I remember going to the zoo and seeing an elephant.
Re:Wow, just wow! by billcopc · 2007-11-09 06:13 · Score: 1

MY question is this:

How many Kalashnikovs can $400k buy ?

Seems like a tiny amount for an outright bribe. Third world or not, it's peanuts!

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-Billco, Fnarg.com
Re:Wow, just wow! by Volante3192 · 2007-11-09 06:20 · Score: 1

Depends where the lunch is... If it's in a 5-star Parisian establishment that you arrived to by traveling business class from NYC... I'd say that's up there.
Re:Wow, just wow! by darkonc · 2007-11-09 06:23 · Score: 4, Interesting

If it's a lunch for you and your entire family,
on the French Riviera,
at a 5 star hotel, and
you 'had to wait' 2 weeks for your dinner host to show up, and
they hinted at 'looking forward to' another such 'friendly dinner' if ... 'certain things happen',
then -- yeah. I think I would. Granted you have a bit more freedom in terms of what you do with $400K in cash, but some people would fall for the, uhnm, "dinner" too.
It really is all thinly veiled bribery -- it's just that you want to generate a certain plausible deniability should 'someone with an axe to grind' (e.g. the fraud squad) should come looking for evidence of illegal actoin.
You see, it's one thing to have a mysterious $300K deposit to your savings account just before you took an unusual action. It's something else to prove that 'a 1-hour dinner meeting' (after that 'impolite' 1 week wait on the Riviera) was bribery connected to that same unusual action. .. Similarly with that $400K 'marketing deal' that was 'entered into on it's own merits' (and only cost you $100K to fulfill on).
Yeah, the smoke and mirrors costs something, but it's alot cheaper than being involved in an messy bribery trial.

--
Sometimes boldness is in fashion. Sometimes only the brave will be bold.
Re:Wow, just wow! by Anpheus · 2007-11-09 06:23 · Score: 1

I take offense to your signature, sir. Truth and Beauty differ by over an order of magnitude mass difference in electronvolts.
Re:Wow, just wow! by jellomizer · 2007-11-09 06:26 · Score: 1

Some of these places have meals that cost over $500.00 a piece. About $4000 for 8 People for about a year while you work out the business details...

--
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
Re:Wow, just wow! by bkr1_2k · 2007-11-09 06:27 · Score: 4, Insightful

What world do you live in? People sell top secret information on nuclear weapons systems for far less money than that. And if you think $400k to an individual is peanuts, you're already in the top .5-1% of the world's incomes and have no concept of how the rest of us plebes live.

--
"Growing old is inevitable; growing up is optional."
Re:Wow, just wow! by Sique · 2007-11-09 06:31 · Score: 4, Insightful

But that's the reason bribery has such a stronghold. "Everyone does it, so I must do it myself."

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.sig: Sique *sigh*
Re:Wow, just wow! by bkr1_2k · 2007-11-09 06:32 · Score: 0

I would add that selling nuclear weapons information is punishable by life in prison, or death in some cases. $400k is a lot of money that you can live the rest of your life on (if invested properly) even in the US, where cost of living is high. In places where the cost of living is much lower, you could easily live the rest of your life on that and live quite well.

bkr1_2k

--
"Growing old is inevitable; growing up is optional."
Re:Wow, just wow! by bkr1_2k · 2007-11-09 06:35 · Score: 1

So you've spent $40k of your $400k. 10% doesn't really seem like a fair comparison, even if the $40k wasn't already inflated.

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"Growing old is inevitable; growing up is optional."
Re:Wow, just wow! by JesterXXV · 2007-11-09 06:44 · Score: 1

Where in the article was the word "bribe" used? Microsoft claims they're operating under US and international law, and they have pretty fucking good lawyers, so I'd be extremely surprised if they're actually violating any known bribery laws. That's not to say they're behaving ethically, but I don't want to see Slashdot get hit with a libel suit.

--
Yo mama so fake, she failed the Turing Test.
Re:Wow, just wow! by Anonymous Coward · 2007-11-09 06:52 · Score: -1, Troll

How many Kalashnikovs can $400k buy ?
You might not be able to buy enough Kalashnikovs to carry out a full-scale genocide, but you could get enough 12-year-old hookers that you might be able to find one or two that actually doesn't have AIDS. That's worth something.
Re:Wow, just wow! by Multiplet_Higgs · 2007-11-09 07:08 · Score: 1

That and being underpaid. If you don't earn enough to live on (or feel you don't) you'll take advantage of your position so that you can (via bribery, theft or fraud, whichever is most appropriate). In public service it becomes a kind of informal tax system, and was prevalent everywhere until relatively recently (e.g. the Elizibethan English navy were expected to suppliment their income by piracy, private voyages, and awarding supply contracts to themselves).
This is particularly important in the police force where they become almost nothing more than a legally sanctioned gang, for sale to the highest bidder. This makes the neutral rule of law somewhat problematic.
Re:Wow, just wow! by Anonymous Coward · 2007-11-09 07:26 · Score: 0

read the article, people. nowhere does it mention a bribe. It did say Microsoft is still negotiating a contract to advertise their products. As usual, the summary is just microsoft hatemongering, with numbers twisted to support it
Re:Wow, just wow! by mastershake_phd · 2007-11-09 07:39 · Score: 1

Deer esteamed Sir, On my search for a trustworthy business partner it had leed me to u. I have in my possesion over $400,000 USd worth of Microsoft Windows system of operating discs and cereal numbers. These discs have just been declared illegal by the corrupt and evil Nigerian government, and therefar worthless in me country. I propose I send these disks to u where you will sell them in your country for $400,000, i know cents you r a trustworthy person you will have no problem giving me a meager share of $50,000. All you must do is forward me a small amount to ship the discs to you, $4,000. I await your positive response. Captain Prince Esqire, James Dashekee

--
Libertarian Leaning Political Discussion Forum.
Re:Wow, just wow! by budgenator · 2007-11-09 07:43 · Score: 1

But that's the reason bribery has such a stronghold Everyone who does isn't starving. Think of it like tipping.

--
Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
Re:Wow, just wow! by db32 · 2007-11-09 07:44 · Score: 1

Are you serious? Put U.S. businesses at a disadvantage? Are you fucking insane? You are aware of the fact that child labor laws exist here for damned good reason... Same with polution... and any number of other disgusting and disturbing practices that businesses has proven themselves quite capable and willing of when no one is there to stop them. You know...things like slavery, and company towns, and all those fun things that America had to deal with and thus created those laws against them. So all of this is just a horrible disadvantage to US companies abroad? We are shooting ourselves in the foot by not competing using slavery, mass pollution, sweat shops, bribery, murder, extortion, etc? Wow...just wow... Union Carbide must be your freaking hero for what they got away with in Bhopal.

--
The only change I can believe in is what I find in my couch cushions.
Re:Wow, just wow! by budgenator · 2007-11-09 07:55 · Score: 1

No it's like pimping your sister and having a leper tell you she too ugly to have sex with.

--
Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
Re:Wow, just wow! by Anonymous Coward · 2007-11-09 08:01 · Score: 0

"I think the FCPA is stupid"

FCPA is not about stupidity, it's about ethics. If you think ethics have no place in the business world, because the 'others' don't play fair as well, then MS is the best example of how to implement this sort of approach - they have never 'played fair'.
Re:Wow, just wow! by Anonymous Coward · 2007-11-09 08:22 · Score: 0

This gives a whole new meaning to Nigerian Scam.
Re:Wow, just wow! by nwanua · 2007-11-09 08:27 · Score: 5, Insightful

The thing is, in rich countries like the US (especially the US), bribes are essentially standard, except they're called tips, golfing trips, expensive dinners, payola, campaign contributions, plane tickets to Hawaii. It's hard to get anything done in some countries (US included) without at least small "incentives". What generally makes news is when the bribes are discovered by the western press, resulting in scandals and "tighter legislation". That doesn't change the fact that almost every business that works there is going to get dragged into that "incentive" system in one way or another if they wish to operate. Try building _any_ structure on the East coast of the US.

The really big surprise isn't the "incentives". It's that the American government intervened to *stop* the "incentives". Now, that could just mean that they didn't get their cut, but...

there... just adding some perspective...
Re:Wow, just wow! by HiThere · 2007-11-09 08:53 · Score: 1

I don't think that's sarcasm. They are all (or almost all) guilty, though unindicted.

OTOH, you clearly realize that they AREN'T going to be locked up. That doesn't sound quite like sarcasm. It's also not exactly ironic (though it certainly has ironic overtones). Caustic or acerbit humor seems more accurate, but I can't think of a single word that expresses it.

--

I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
Re:Wow, just wow! by nschubach · 2007-11-09 09:03 · Score: 1

Not sure if it's true anymore, but one of the guys I worked with came from Pakistan. He said he could live the rest of his life in PK on $150,000 (converted to local currency) with a nice house, servants, and no worries.

--
Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
Re:Wow, just wow! by Blkdeath · 2007-11-09 09:41 · Score: 1

But that's the reason bribery has such a stronghold. "Everyone does it, so I must do it myself."
Many westerners, myself included, just don't understand "how it works" in many countries. Thankfully I've been educated by people who come from many of these countries in question so I have a bit better understanding than many.
Bribes do not carry the same negative connotations as they do here. For example, if you want your eaves cleaned you slip a bribe to the contractor and it gets done. Salesmen bribe the customers to purchase products from them. Politicians, business, and even private citizens engage in routine bribery just as we pay our credit card bills. It's just something that happens, it's perfectly normal, and it's only a "Very Bad Thing" when viewed with our morality goggles.

--
BD Phone Home!
Shameless plug. Like you weren't expecting it.
Re:Wow, just wow! by LeeMeador · 2007-11-09 09:47 · Score: 1

Maybe we should call "small bribes" by a more familiar name: "tip"

How is this different from giving a waiter some extra cash for good service?
Re:Wow, just wow! by Anonymous Coward · 2007-11-09 10:51 · Score: 0

Looks like a bribe. Smells like a bribe. Tastes like a bribe.
Re:Wow, just wow! by sumdumass · 2007-11-09 11:41 · Score: 0

I grew up with a kid who had a dream of running away to Jamaica. He had it all planned out where he lived in a sort of group home (a home shared between 2 or 3 families). complete with maid service, chefs and recreation for less then $80 a month. HE ended up getting caught in his run to Jamaica and was placed on juvenile probation where his probations office saw his plans and ended up quitting his job and moving there based off of them.

Assuming the $80 a month was a correct value, 40 years at $80 a month is less then $50,000. IF you were 50 years old when moving, it would probable be the rest of your life. Costs had gone up some probably but I could see the $150,000 as a doable figure.
Re:Wow, just wow! by Hatta · 2007-11-09 11:47 · Score: 1

Right, and I suppose that when I give the nice lady at the coffee shop $3.45 I'm bribing her to give me coffee?

--
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
Re:Wow, just wow! by jabuzz · 2007-11-09 12:04 · Score: 3, Insightful

It's a "Very Bad Thing" because it restricts overall economic activity, which prevents development which keeps Africa dirt poor. Endemic bribery might be the norm in large parts of Africa, however that does not make it a good idea.
Re:Wow, just wow! by Blkdeath · 2007-11-09 12:27 · Score: 1

It's a "Very Bad Thing" because it restricts overall economic activity, which prevents development which keeps Africa dirt poor. Endemic bribery might be the norm in large parts of Africa, however that does not make it a good idea.
I'm not just talking about Africa, which has larger problems than bribery holding back much of its development; economic and otherwise.
Credit cards and ever increasing personal household debt also hamper healthy economic growth and development but North America is riddled with it. Hell, our governments are even better at it than we are!
Endemic bribery is the norm in almost every country around the world in some form or another. A poster somewhere mentioned that in the USofA and Canada it takes the form of perks, plane tickets, seats at sporting events, golf clubs / golf trip, boats, cars, favours political and economical, campaign "contributions", etc. ad nauseum. Many things just wouldn't get done without a little back scratching taking place. Hell, I've even been known to slip an installer a $20 or a $50 to do that little extra thing for me on occasion.
I think the only thing worse than bribery that takes place in third world countries is us condemning it as if our own house is clean.

--
BD Phone Home!
Shameless plug. Like you weren't expecting it.
Re:Wow, just wow! by ozmanjusri · 2007-11-09 12:53 · Score: 2, Interesting

Seems like a tiny amount for an outright bribe.
The average monthly income there is $160.00.
Pretend you're a Microsoft distributor selling boxed versions of Vista and Office, and guess how much profit you'd be making.

--
"I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
Re:Wow, just wow! by Anonymous Coward · 2007-11-09 13:59 · Score: 0

Personally I don't believe we should do the wrong thing just because other countries do.... It may put us at a disadvantage in some manners, but the world is a pretty big place and I think we can do enough honest business elsewhere.

Save your soul, do NOT sell it.
Re:Wow, just wow! by jc42 · 2007-11-09 15:31 · Score: 3, Funny

[O]ne of the guys I worked with came from Pakistan. He said he could live the rest of his life in PK on $150,000 (converted to local currency) with a nice house, servants, and no worries.

Hey, give the Microsoft management a break here. They've only been doing this bribery thing since about 1999, when they started making "campaign contributions" to help bring about a US administration that would stop the Justice Dept's lawsuit and settle on terms favorable to MS.

But, let's face it, 8 years really isn't enough time to figure out the rules for bribery everywhere in the world. To MS's management, $400,000 may not seem like a large amount. Most of their experience is with bribing US government officials, and that's probably somewhat of a minimal bribe in Washington. You can't get a nice house with servants in the US for $150,000, you know. You can't get a condo in DC (without servants) for that price.

But we can rest assured that MS's management is learning from this latest incident. They have people who read slashdot, so they have just been notified of the bribery "exchange rate" in Pakistan. As a result of their discussions with the legal folks in Nigeria, they are probably getting a feel for what's a reasonable price there. Next time, they won't make the mistake of over-bribing, since that tends to get noticed.

And we should all understand that corporate bribery is a lot more difficult than political bribery. Corporations are a lot more secretive with bribery, as they are with other company secrets, and it can take some time to learn just what sort of bribe various officers of different companies expect.

So give them time. In another decade or so, they'll have detailed internal databases detailing the proper approach to bribery in companies and governments worldwide. Then we won't hear stories about dumb mistakes like this one.

Actually, it's sorta funny they wouldn't already have access to a good database of bribery info. You'd expect that some of their "partners" or purchased companies would have it all sitting in a computer somewhere. Maybe they just haven't thought to ask around to see if the data is already available for purchase. Or, more likely, available for quiet download after a reasonable under-the-table payment.

If anyone knows where such a database might be found, maybe you should post the URL here. Think of all the companies you'll be helping. OK; forget that; I know you aren't going to give it out for free. But maybe some pointers to help the "just curious" reach you.

--
Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
Re:Wow, just wow! by doktorjayd · 2007-11-09 15:45 · Score: 1

if i'd made a deal with the coffee shop lady to provide coffee in return for renumeration, upon which she prepares the coffee, then someone offers me a dollar to take their coffee instead, thereby driving the coffee shop ladies' business into the ground, i'm pretty sure theres a term to describe it.

might not be bribe.

might be more like 'racketeering' or involve the term 'anti-trust', and most certainly 'anti-competitive'.

even worse if she had a deal to sell you a cookie ( normal price $2.50) for an extra $1.55. ( analogy here is the service and support arrangement mandriva had organised as part of the deal..)
Re:Wow, just wow! by Eddi3 · 2007-11-09 19:27 · Score: 1

You must be new here.
Re:Wow, just wow! by Anonymous Coward · 2007-11-09 22:04 · Score: 0

I would add that selling nuclear weapons information is punishable by life in prison, or death in some cases. $400k is a lot of money that you can live the rest of your life on (if invested properly) even in the US, where cost of living is high. In places where the cost of living is much lower, you could easily live the rest of your life on that and live quite well.

If you get caught it will alternativly pay for keeping you in prison or for the state to turn a profit on your execution...
Re:Wow, just wow! by mpe · 2007-11-09 22:15 · Score: 1

Where in the article was the word "bribe" used? Microsoft claims they're operating under US and international law, and they have pretty fucking good lawyers, so I'd be extremely surprised if they're actually violating any known bribery laws.

But possibly poor geographers. Otherwise they'd have realised that Nigerian applied here.
Re:Wow, just wow! by Anonymous Coward · 2007-11-09 22:38 · Score: 0

Actually, it's sorta funny they wouldn't already have access to a good database of bribery info. You'd expect that some of their "partners" or purchased companies would have it all sitting in a computer somewhere. Maybe they just haven't thought to ask around to see if the data is already available for purchase. Or, more likely, available for quiet download after a reasonable under-the-table payment.
I believe the databases exist, but they couldn't extract the data because it was in Access 97 format, and their field agents were using Access 2007.
Re:Wow, just wow! by Warbothong · 2007-11-10 00:47 · Score: 1

He emailed Microsoft his bank details and is now just awaiting the first deposit... Oops, I mean: he emaild micro soft his banc detals and is now jsut a wayting the fist depost.
Re:Wow, just wow! by justamember · 2007-11-10 01:34 · Score: 1

Interesting that the supposedly corrupt (see previous Slashdot posts on this subject) Nigerians stepped in to sort things out, while the scrupously clean US authorities made no effort to speak up. Why would they, you ask? After all, MS might be a US company, but the business was being done in a foreign country. Well, for starters, when you set yourself up as the moral high ground, it shouldn't matter if keeping that high ground involves disadvantaging a US company.

Take a long hard look at the US DoJ, which has turned a blind eye to this sort of behaviour by US corporations, and yet becomes strangely enthusiastic about rooting out corruption when the skulduggery involves foreign competition. Witness their determination to expose the truth about the BAE arms sales tactics to Saudi Arabia, and the fines imposed on British Airways for fuel surcharge price fixing. The DoJ spokesman at the press briefing in the BA case was so eager to impose a multi million dollar fine against a non-US competitor, er, I mean was so eager to see justice done, that he even managed to get the company name wrong. No mean achievement when you realise it simply involved remembering two words in sequence.
Re:Wow, just wow! by sumdumass · 2007-11-10 02:53 · Score: 1

I doubt the are $500 a meal. Usually meals that expensive are reserved for (political) fund raising. Of course you could probably crack open a $1000 bottle of wine or something and increase the costs of dinner for two quite a bit. but that is on another level.
Re:Wow, just wow! by sumdumass · 2007-11-10 03:10 · Score: 1

There are ways to get around the underpaid problem. Being underpaid either by salary or perceptions is also only part of the problem.

But moving employees to different positions every once in a while, making penalties stringent enough that the risks outweigh the benefit for the majority of people, audits and oversight are just a few ways to reduce or eliminate the bribery. The most effective way is to place someone in charge of the situation that is several levels up and tell him that he will serve the jail time for anyone convicted of bribery underneath him. Then pay him a decent salary above what would be needed to live on.

That one of the reasons it isn't rampant in the US. We have different levels of pay that do different things. Bribes, payoffs and so on might happen but the slaves on the lines resent the over paid execs who would drop on them in a heart beat if they were taking bribes while the same would likely be true for the executives if they started taking bribes.
Re:Wow, just wow! by KZigurs · 2007-11-10 03:27 · Score: 1

No.

The way Microsoft operates is by promising 'marketing support budgets' that are entirely disproportionate to the states marketing plans. Obviously there never is any audits as to how it is spent afterwards.

My guess would be that M$ expected supplier to smooth the way out further and supplier failed.
Re:Wow, just wow! by jc42 · 2007-11-10 05:02 · Score: 1

I believe the databases exist, but they couldn't extract the data because it was in Access 97 format, and their field agents were using Access 2007.

You may be right. I do recall, a few years back, reading of an attempt by a government agency (IRS? DOJ?) to do a review of their financial records for the previous decade, to determine whether profit/loss figures were accurate. The story was that Microsoft couldn't extract the data from their archives, because they couldn't completely decode the obsolete data formats.

I also remember thinking "Yeah, right!" when I heard that. But then it occurred to me: This was not just a lame excuse to fend off the revenooers. It was also a message to managers anywhere: Use our financial software, and we can guarantee that your old financial records won't be available to government investigators after a few years. That's gotta be an important marketing claim. I'll bet their salesmen are using it right now in their battle against ODF and other such standards.

--
Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
Re:Wow, just wow! by dlymper · 2007-11-14 21:33 · Score: 1

However, I strongly believe that Mandriva got the deal WITHOUT bribing anybody... If sb has contradicting evidence, let's hear it. Perhaps this also explains why the Nigeria gvmt intervened (no money for them here)...

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- "I say the whole world must learn of our peaceful ways...by force!!" Bender B. Rodriguez
Re:Wow, just wow! by billcopc · 2007-11-18 05:59 · Score: 1

Okay, fine, I'm a low-wage tech worker (from my own career mismanagement). I make that much per day, which is real cute but I still find the cost of Microsoft's operating systems prohibitive given what little they actually do for me. Care to explain how Microsoft can profit from a nation that can't afford their product ? It's not like Nigerians are lining up at Best Buy for some Aero Glass lovin' on their shiny quad-core gaming rig.

I'd love it if Ferrari bribed me to promote their vehicles, but it wouldn't earn them a penny because all the idiots in my town drive Audis and BMW 3-series and other cheap snobmobiles. There just isn't much of a market for rock stars in Ottawa (our coke is shitty anyway!).

It almost feels like Microsoft has run out of viable markets to invade, so they're going after scraps to complete their bingo card. I'm still waiting for my Microsoft Refrigerator (that requires monthly patches to support new foods), Microsoft Car (that forces me to call some offshore activation center every time I rotate the tires), Microsoft Lightbulb (that only comes in brown and has to be removed and reinserted into the fixture every few months), and of course the Microsoft Chair, which reserves the right to get pulled out from under you and thrown at any moment. *rimshot*

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-Billco, Fnarg.com

I can feel my karma draining away, but... by JK_the_Slacker · 2007-11-09 04:27 · Score: 0, Offtopic

In Soviet Nigeria, the government stops YOU from taking bribes!

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I'm waiting for a "-1 somepeoplejustshouldn'tgetmodprivileges" meta-moderation.

A new low...amazing by Weaselmancer · 2007-11-09 04:28 · Score: 5, Funny

You know you're corrupt when the government of Nigeria steps in to block your shady deal.

--
Weaselmancer
rediculous.

Re:A new low...amazing by athdemo · 2007-11-09 04:30 · Score: 5, Funny

I know, someone was actually going to give them a large sum of money, too. I'm totally lost as to how this could have happened.
Re:A new low...amazing by HappySmileMan · 2007-11-09 04:38 · Score: 1

Well they only needed to send a small deposit fee, and then they'd get 35Mil in return so it makes sense.
Re:A new low...amazing by badran · 2007-11-09 04:39 · Score: 0

I guess Nigerians are a step ahead of the scam artists at Redmond... Or some one got pissed for not getting any bribes..
Re:A new low...amazing by SlipperHat · 2007-11-09 04:42 · Score: 1, Insightful

So in terms of corruption, where > is more corrupt than:

Microsoft > Nigeria

naa... more like

Microsoft >> Nigeria.

Remember kids, a Nigerian scam artist steals from the ignorant, but only Microsoft steals from everyone (Nigerians included).
Re:A new low...amazing by Azar · 2007-11-09 04:49 · Score: 4, Insightful

It takes a thief to spot a thief, I suppose.
Re:A new low...amazing by Anonymous Coward · 2007-11-09 05:32 · Score: 1, Funny

Microsoft >> Nigeria Why would you try to append Microsoft to Nigeria?
Re:A new low...amazing by tjstork · 2007-11-09 05:37 · Score: 0, Flamebait

You know you're corrupt when the government of Nigeria steps in to block your shady deal.

Really, the Nigerian gov't stepped in because they didn't get a piece of the pie. One wonders if Mandriva bribed the gov't in Nigeria first..

--
This is my sig.
Re:A new low...amazing by DaveWick79 · 2007-11-09 05:51 · Score: 1

Yep, this sounds more like it. If this was indeed a bribe deal by MS, they obviously didn't know enough about their market to hit the right people.
Re:A new low...amazing by AdamWill · 2007-11-09 05:55 · Score: 5, Interesting

"One wonders if Mandriva bribed the gov't in Nigeria first.."

Heh. Even if you didn't believe we wouldn't be inclined to do that, we don't have the *capacity*. Microsoft can get $400,000 out of Bill's petty cash jar. We couldn't get $400,000 from anywhere.

If this really came down to a battle to see who could provide the biggest...er...factory-to-dealer incentive, we'd be dead in the water.

(I work for Mandriva, in case you didn't figure that one out yet).
Re:A new low...amazing by HangingChad · 2007-11-09 06:24 · Score: 2, Funny

Recent spam message plogging mail filters around the world...
GREETINGS MY NAME IS STEVE BALLMER I WAS referring to you by a trusted friend for a matter of great urgency. The government of Nigeria died and left no heir for 17,000 laptops awaiting installation of the WINDOWS operating system. We will happily pay you to for the sum of $400,000 USD for your assistance in getting rid of teh suck Linux and installing the wonderful operating system for the children.

--
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
Re:A new low...amazing by Anonymous Coward · 2007-11-09 06:34 · Score: -1, Troll

Perhaps if your company's name wasn't so frightenly close to "Mangina", you'd have enough customers to be able to come up with the 400K.
Re:A new low...amazing by Anonymous Coward · 2007-11-09 06:53 · Score: 0

Strange, it looks like everyone else there is trying to get money OUT of the country...
Re:A new low...amazing by gad_zuki! · 2007-11-09 06:55 · Score: 5, Funny

DEAR MADAMES;m,

I AM BILLIONAIRE AMERICAN BILLY GATES III CEO. I OFFER TO YOU A BUSINESS OPPORTUNITY YOU ARE INTERESTED IN. CONFIDENTIAL. PLEASE CONTACT ME ASAP IF YOU CAN HELP ME MOVE 10,000 WINDOWS INTO YOUR COUNTRY. BECAUSE OF INTERNATIONAL REGULATION I NEED YOUR HELP IN THIS IMPORTANT MATTER. FOR YOUR HELP IN THIS TRANSACTION YOU WILL RECEIVE 400,000 AMERICAN DOLLARS. GOD BLESS.

BILLY GATES III CEO
Re:A new low...amazing by tjstork · 2007-11-09 07:21 · Score: 1

We couldn't get $400,000 from anywhere

Well, Mandriva did get 1.6M to buy Linbox last year. And, there's always the French government.

--
This is my sig.
Re:A new low...amazing by Anonymous Coward · 2007-11-09 07:35 · Score: 0

I didn't know Nigeria had a government.
Re:A new low...amazing by mikael · 2007-11-09 08:56 · Score: 1

Microsoft >> Nigeria

Why would you try to append Microsoft to Nigeria?

Microsoft is a never-ending revenue stream?

--
Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
Re:A new low...amazing by AdamWill · 2007-11-09 08:57 · Score: 5, Interesting

Yes, we raised $1.6m for the Linbox acquisition. It was spent on the Linbox acquisition. We also raised a couple of million in venture capital. That *is* our capital for the foreseeable future. All of it.

People sometimes really don't appreciate the difference in scale between a company like Microsoft and one like Mandriva. Microsoft makes $28m *profit* in a day. For Mandriva, $2m of *capital* is a huge investment.
Re:A new low...amazing by HuguesT · 2007-11-09 11:53 · Score: 1

This is my new sig. Cheers !
Re:A new low...amazing by aproposofwhat · 2007-11-10 05:25 · Score: 1

And... (drums roll)
He'll throw in a few chairs for good measure!
(na na na na na, na na!)

--
One swallow does not a fellatrix make
Re:A new low...amazing by Anonymous Coward · 2007-11-10 06:15 · Score: 0

I didn't know Nigeria had a government.

How could you not know? Plenty of high-ranking Nigerian government officials send me and everyone I know e-mail on a daily basis.
Re:A new low...amazing by tjstork · 2007-11-10 14:13 · Score: 1

People sometimes really don't appreciate the difference in scale between a company like Microsoft and one like Mandriva

True enough. People talk about the ultimate triumph of Linux, and how Microsoft is coming apart or failing, and meanwhile, Microsoft makes more money in one day than one of the most reputable distributions of Linux has made, well, ever.

--
This is my sig.

Who would've guessed by Nazlfrag · 2007-11-09 04:28 · Score: 1

It shouldn't be suprising that the folks who actually want to use them would want to keep the tried and tested localised Mandriva over the untested XP that costs more and would cripple the system. Hopefully they will all end up this way, but I don't blame them for accepting the MS bounty.

Re:Who would've guessed by JackMeyhoff · 2007-11-09 04:30 · Score: 1

I would think XP is far more localised tested than Linux ever has been. Especially Vista which is a single world binary and takes all captions/labels from localised resources.

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http://www.rense.com/general79/wdx1.htm
Re:Who would've guessed by CRCulver · 2007-11-09 04:34 · Score: 2, Insightful

I would think XP is far more localised tested than Linux ever has been

You are joking, right? There are some fairly large countries where people have to use Windows in English (a language many don't understand) because Microsoft has decided that it wouldn't be profitable to translate Windows into the local language.
Re:Who would've guessed by show+me+altoids · 2007-11-09 04:34 · Score: 0

Unfortunately, in some countries bribery and the like are SOP. Glad this is getting publicity in the US, though.

--
I feel sorry for people that don't drink, because when they get up in the morning, that's as good as they're gonna feel
Re:Who would've guessed by Nazlfrag · 2007-11-09 04:40 · Score: 1

Sure, that's easy to assume, but you are dead wrong. They tailored their OS for Nigerians specifically because of this contract. Additional to localisation they trialled them extensively, thus the reaction. MS just stepped in once the deal was done with a half hearted effort that has left the people on the ground wanting. They chose the superior OS for their needs.
Re:Who would've guessed by varmittang · 2007-11-09 05:19 · Score: 4, Insightful

Your statement so wrong. From the Article:"In fact, Intel has tested and certified three operating systems for the Classmate PC: Mandriva Linux, Metasys Linux and Microsoft Windows XP Pro." So it has been tested and it works. Mod me down if you want, but your statement will still be wrong.

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Re:Who would've guessed by postbigbang · 2007-11-09 05:30 · Score: 2, Informative

Actually, Microsoft's localization is pretty good compared to some of the FOSS projects I've seen, not that it excuses Microsoft for other bad behavior. And no country must use Windows in English unless they really want to. There are good and viable choices other than Windows for all but the most obscure languages. See the planetlimux.org site for one interesting adaptation in municipal government as an example.

--
---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
Re:Who would've guessed by Anne+Thwacks · 2007-11-09 09:10 · Score: 1

I have yet to see a Yoruba version of Windows, let alone Efik or Ijaw. Window localisation for Nigeria? I dont think so

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Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
Re:Who would've guessed by thejynxed · 2007-11-09 11:46 · Score: 1

While those two particular dialects or languages are not in a default installation of WinXP SP2, there is however several interesting choices in languages that are.

For instance: Sanskrit, Azeri (in Cyrillic, Latin, and Azerbaijan Cyrillic and Latin forms), Divehi, Faroese, Galician, Kyrygz, Tswana, Xhosa and a few others.

This information is contained in .NLS files (National Language Support), and accessed via the Win32 NLS API. Programmers and webdevs can retrieve country/regional name abbreviations via a call to the GetLocaleInfo() API with LCTYPE set to SABBREVCTRYNAME. They can get access to the abbreviated name of the language via a call to the GetLocaleInfo() API with LCTYPE set to SABBREVLANGNAME.

So if a company releases software that only seems to be in English, it is generally because they were too lazy to program in a few simple API calls to retrieve the proper data from the .NLS files, etc. There's very little reason NOT to have multi-lingual support built right into any serious software project in this day and age. Configuration data for language support is also easily contained within the tree structure of XML files if you feel like going that route instead.

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@Mindless Drivel: 100% of Twitter posts ever Tweeted.
Re:Who would've guessed by dbIII · 2007-11-09 20:54 · Score: 1

The problem is the complete ecosystem of applications you need to actually make the thing useful are included with Mandriva but are extra costs with WinXP.

I wish by mastershake_phd · 2007-11-09 04:29 · Score: 3, Funny

I wished they pay me to use Windows...

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Libertarian Leaning Political Discussion Forum.

Re:I wish by Anonymous Coward · 2007-11-09 04:46 · Score: 0

I wished they pay me to use Windows...
Past XP, they will have to pay me.
I still want a stock Best Buy special PC without Vista. I don't like Microsoft tax.
Re:I wish by Anonymous Coward · 2007-11-09 04:49 · Score: 0, Funny

When you consider the efficiency gains and TCO when you migrate to MS and the entire .NET framework, Microsoft practically *is* paying you to use Windows.
Re:I wish by mastershake_phd · 2007-11-09 05:01 · Score: 1

When you consider the efficiency gains and TCO when you migrate to MS and the entire .NET framework, Microsoft practically *is* paying you to use Windows.

The last time I installed .net on my pc it wouldn't even start.

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Libertarian Leaning Political Discussion Forum.
Re:I wish by trolltalk.com · 2007-11-09 05:05 · Score: 1

>"When you consider the efficiency gains and TCO when you migrate to MS and the entire .NET framework, Microsoft practically *is* paying you to use Windows."
So I guess that by using only linux both at home and the office means I'm "practically" supporting Microsoft financially???
Actually, in a way I guess I am, since otherwise I'd switch to a Mac, and then everyone else would have iEnvy(TM) and consider switching too. And we all know, "once you go mac, you never go back."

--
Kevin Smith on Prince
Re:I wish by mdwstmusik · 2007-11-09 05:06 · Score: 0

"When you consider the efficiency gains and TCO when you migrate to MS and the entire .NET framework, Microsoft practically *is* paying you to use Windows."

Bwaahaahaahaa...ROLFLMAO!

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"Oh, what sad times these are when passing ruffians can say 'ni' to helpless old ladies."
Re:I wish by Anonymous Coward · 2007-11-09 05:22 · Score: 0

So I guess that by using only linux both at home and the office means I'm "practically" supporting Microsoft financially???

Yes, because you reinforce the stereotype of Linux users as being socially inept nerds who never shower and have never been with a woman before.

The theory "Richard Stallman is a Microsoft agent" fits the data a *little* too well.
Re:I wish by Macthorpe · 2007-11-09 07:30 · Score: 1

I still want a stock Best Buy special PC without Vista. I want a Ford with a Ferrari engine in it. However, I don't have unrealistic expectations so if I want a Ferrari engine I realise I might have to buy a Ferrari.

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"It does not do to leave a live dragon out of your calculations, if you live near him." - Tolkien
Re:I wish by flyingfsck · 2007-11-09 07:46 · Score: 1

Sure, MS will pay you to use Windows! Here you go: http://www.microsoft.com/careers/

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Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
Re:I wish by ColdWetDog · 2007-11-09 08:16 · Score: 1

When you consider the efficiency gains and TCO when you migrate to MS and the entire .NET framework, Microsoft practically *is* paying you to use Windows.
The last time I installed .net on my pc it wouldn't even start.

Well, the OP is correct after all. If you can't start your PC, you'd be doing something useful instead of posting to Slashdot.

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Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
Re:I wish by Anonymous Coward · 2007-11-09 10:04 · Score: 0

That has to be the worst bad car analogy I've ever seen, and there's plenty of competition.

How exactly do you equate wanting to buy a PC without Vista with wanting to buy a Ford with a Ferrari engine? It's more like wanting to buy a Ford without an engine at all so you can put in your own engine of choice. Although "more like" still does not imply any significant similarity.
Re:I wish by Macthorpe · 2007-11-09 13:05 · Score: 1

Because I couldn't have been referring to wanting a choice, of course.

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"It does not do to leave a live dragon out of your calculations, if you live near him." - Tolkien

wow by someone1234 · 2007-11-09 04:29 · Score: 2, Interesting

And I thought they successfully bribed the government.
Heh, apparently there are still honest people in there!
Now just let's hope Mandriva doesn't screw it and their machines actually work :)
There goes 400k for bad publicity for M$.

--
Patents Drive Free Software as Hurricanes Drive Construction Industry

Re:wow by denzacar · 2007-11-09 04:58 · Score: 2, Funny

Nah...

They just didn't bribe the RIGHT people with ENOUGH money.

Well.. at least they didn't bribe them with 640k.
Who could stand all those 640k jokes - AGAIN.

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Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
Re:wow by NatasRevol · 2007-11-09 05:59 · Score: 2, Funny

Hey, $640k is enough for me!!!

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There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
Re:wow by emlyncorrin · 2007-11-09 09:06 · Score: 1

Hey, $640k is enough for me!!! Of course it is, $640k should be enough for anybody.

Excuse me while I have a hearty laugh by MichailS · 2007-11-09 04:31 · Score: 0, Offtopic

Har har har har ^_^

cough wheeze

What I like most is... by Dishevel · 2007-11-09 04:31 · Score: 5, Funny

That Microsoft didn't even try to push their new OS.

--
Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?

Re:What I like most is... by d3m0nCr4t · 2007-11-09 04:34 · Score: 2, Funny

It just shows that even corrupt dealers have their standards... :p
Re:What I like most is... by davermont · 2007-11-09 06:33 · Score: 1

Yeah, well I doubt these computers have the required 20 GHz processors and 3 terabytes of RAM.

STRICTLY CONFIDENTIAL by Tackhead · 2007-11-09 04:32 · Score: 5, Funny

GOD BLESS YOU!

My name is Stephen Ballmer I am the Chair Executive of William Gates of Redmond in the United State of America. I am contacting you with regard to transfer of a huge sum of laptops from the OLPC project. Though I know that a transaction of this magnitude will make any one apprehensive and worried, but I am assuring you that everything has been taken care off, and all will be well at the end of the day. I decided to contact you due to the urgency of this transaction.

Re:STRICTLY CONFIDENTIAL by Anonymous Coward · 2007-11-09 07:38 · Score: 0

My name is Stephen Ballmer I am the Chair Executive[...]

Priceless. My hat is off to you sir.
Re:STRICTLY CONFIDENTIAL by trippytom · 2007-11-09 08:00 · Score: 1

I was a Peace Corps volunteer in Benin (just W. of Nigeria for the geographically challenged) and actually saw a Nigerian scam email being written in a cybercafe. It was fricking hilarious, I didn't know whether to laugh or cry (or start correcting the grammar). There were three guys huddled around a computer (par for the course), all debating how "best" to compose the email text. I didn't know whether to laugh or cry.

One can hope by mandark1967 · 2007-11-09 04:33 · Score: -1

that the supplier kept the $400k in bribes as well just to deny the funds to MS to bribe someone else

--
Sig Follows: "Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." -- Mark Twain

Weird? by HappySmileMan · 2007-11-09 04:33 · Score: 1

From the stories before on this I thought Nigerias Government WERE the suppliers? Was this not known that they were separate until now or was it just overlooked for the purpose of taking a swing at Nigerias government?

Glad to know that MS got caught though, even without Francis having to use the 'B' word

Re:Weird? by Sirch · 2007-11-09 04:49 · Score: 1

Glad to know that MS got caught though, even without Francis having to use the 'B' word Ballmer?

--
We Build Beautiful Websites
Re:Weird? by Anonymous Coward · 2007-11-09 05:36 · Score: 0

Bacon?
Re:Weird? by MacColossus · 2007-11-09 06:13 · Score: 1

Beleaguered?

Waiting for apologies... by MarkVVV · 2007-11-09 04:34 · Score: 3, Insightful

I'm dying to hear what do those people that tried to defend M$ on the last story about this subject have to say. And you also owe apologies to Mandriva CEO, too...

The Nigerian official was furious. by 140Mandak262Jamuna · 2007-11-09 04:34 · Score: 5, Insightful

Because he did not get his proper cut. Let us not hang our hats on the Govt of Nigeria or Azerbaijan. The real battle is for the mind share of corporate America. That is the fountainhead of all the money MSFT is using to subvert ISO or bribe vendors in third world countries.

Just an hour back there was this story about MSFT including some game vendor's malformed copy protection driver for six year into every damn computer in the world. What percentage of them played that software? Why a corporate server that might end up in a blade rack without even have a dedicated monitor or mouse got this driver? Why are the corporations not demanding full disclosure of what dlls are needed and what are not? Why isn't there a third party service that will advice corporations which components of Windows could be safely removed by looking at the company policies and use patterns?

As long as the customers accept everything dished out by MSFT patiently, there is nothing we can do to make it change. Education of the customers is the most important thing if we are going to rescue computing from this monoculture.

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sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact

Re:The Nigerian official was furious. by JK_the_Slacker · 2007-11-09 04:43 · Score: 3, Funny

My computer doesn't have a malformed copy protection driver. You must be one of those Windows users.

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I'm waiting for a "-1 somepeoplejustshouldn'tgetmodprivileges" meta-moderation.
Re:The Nigerian official was furious. by Dishevel · 2007-11-09 04:49 · Score: 2, Interesting

Why isn't there a third party service that will advice corporations which components of Windows could be safely removed by looking at the company policies and use patterns?
Not exactly what you want but very close is http://www.blackviper.com/ They have wonderful sections on XP and Vista Services. At least its a start.

--
Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?

Serves them right. by KiwiCanuck · 2007-11-09 04:35 · Score: 2, Insightful

How dare they bribe a non-gov official! But seriously, I'd love to see Penguins take over the world.

DEAR SIRS OR MISTRESSES by MichailS · 2007-11-09 04:37 · Score: 1, Funny

Following uprising in Nigeria, many personal computers reluctantly have been dressed in mandriva.

We want more to use your Widows operating of system and wish to purchase license to the order of $10'000'000

Require though a proof of sample please send license and insurance for delivery $400'000 which will be given back when order is laid.

Sincere regards

[Bah, the lame(ness) filter will not allow me to post in all caps]

Dirty deal? by RightSaidFred99 · 2007-11-09 04:38 · Score: -1, Offtopic

In what way? Apparently now it's bad for someone to enter into a cross marketing deal? It amazes me when deals made between consenting entities are "dirty".

Re:Dirty deal? by s!lat · 2007-11-09 04:48 · Score: 1

I'm pretty sure they are calling it a dirty deal because of the BRIBERY not the actual marketing side *rolleyes*

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It's a leather thing
Re:Dirty deal? by gstoddart · 2007-11-09 05:04 · Score: 4, Informative

In what way? Apparently now it's bad for someone to enter into a cross marketing deal? It amazes me when deals made between consenting entities are "dirty".

Ummmm ... Mandriva won the contract with government.

The company shipping the laptops took money to wipe out Mandriva and ship with Windows.

So, I have a contract with you to buy 10000 widgets painted in red Du Point paint. And, 3m pays you money to paint them in a 3m yellow. Is that OK?

This isn't a "dirty" deal in what way?? It's doing an end run around the people they have a contract with. They did not have a contract with Microsoft, and Microsoft did not have standing to alter the terms of the contract.

I would call this dirty. Hell, I'd call it fraud.

Cheers

--
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
Re:Dirty deal? by darjen · 2007-11-09 05:06 · Score: 1

As much as I hate to be one to cast doubt on how dirty this deal really is, or (gasp) defend MS on slashdot... is bribery really all that wrong? See here a classic defense of bribery:
http://www.mises.org/rothbard/ethics/seventeen.asp
Of course, as far as I'm concerned, MS wouldn't exist without the protection of the US Government's bogus patent system. I would probably worry more about that than bribery.
Re:Dirty deal? by s!lat · 2007-11-09 05:28 · Score: 1

I don't think we're actually disagreeing, just having a difference of opinion on the semantics. Either way the system is screwey

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It's a leather thing
Re:Dirty deal? by RightSaidFred99 · 2007-11-09 05:29 · Score: 1

Bribery?? What exactly does that even mean in a business context? If I sell auto-windows and I offer you a free dinner at some restaurant if you use my service, is that "bribery"? When Coke offers a company advertising dollars and a discount to carry only Coca Cola products, is that "bribery"? The idea is ridiculous. Unless MS broker Nigerian law, it's not bribery.
Re:Dirty deal? by RightSaidFred99 · 2007-11-09 05:34 · Score: 0, Troll

You can call it what you like, you're simply wrong is all. There is no such thing as a "dirty deal" unless it involves fraud or coersion. A business offering incentives to use its products is not wrong.
As for your "contract" - was Du Pont paid? If so, and nothing in the contract states that the widgets can't be _repainted_, then it's perfectly fine. You seem to have some kind of issue with consenting business entities doing business. If Microsoft is willing to cut them a deal or even give them money because they have some business interest in MS Windows being on those machines, then that's their problem. The whole outrage over this is just completely ridiculous and makes no rational sense. In the end, the government said "no" to the deal and it's over with.
Re:Dirty deal? by s!lat · 2007-11-09 05:37 · Score: 1

That wouldn't be bribery according to the law but that does smack of unethical use of marketshare power

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It's a leather thing
Re:Dirty deal? by RightSaidFred99 · 2007-11-09 05:41 · Score: 0, Troll

Why is the system screwy? Microsoft saw a business value in those machines running Windows XP. They made an offer to the end-user which was obviously, at first glance, beneficial enough to be accepted. In the end, the government didn't agree and the deal was refused. Who exactly, again, did anything wrong here?
Re:Dirty deal? by RightSaidFred99 · 2007-11-09 05:45 · Score: 0, Troll

Nonsense. There's absolutely nothing unethical about using marketshare power unless you have government granted control over a physically limited resource. Business ethics say nothing about being "fair" to your opponents. Only "fair" to your customers. If you give them what they paid for and both parties are happy, there's nothing wrong with it. The whole ridiculous, and easily proved false idea that MS has a monopoly was dreamed up by their competitors and lapped up by corrupt politicians with distinct geographical associations to said competitors.
Re:Dirty deal? by arthurpaliden · 2007-11-09 05:49 · Score: 1

So you will not mind if your medication inside the pill capsule is changed to something other that what you thought you were getting.

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Undetectable Steganography? Yep, there's an app fo
Re:Dirty deal? by zippthorne · 2007-11-09 05:49 · Score: 1

No, but your victim doesn't personally control other people's money as well. If they give the Nigerian Government a rebate or gift to convince them to buy windows, that's not bribery. If they give a key Nigerian official gifts or rebates to convince them to exercise the Nigerian government's authority to buy windows, that's a bribe.

Not only is it unethical, it's also less costly. You can see how much cheaper it is to influence one person than to influence an entire country. 1% discount might not seem like much, but if 1% of the cost of 100,000 PCs were directed to a single person...

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Can you be Even More Awesome?!
Re:Dirty deal? by RightSaidFred99 · 2007-11-09 05:51 · Score: 1

And you have..evidence they gave a Nigerian official gifts or rebates? Of course not. You just used a strawman. "In all cases, including self defense, killing is wrong. Take for example Ted Bundy who murdered many innocent young women. This, indeed, proves that in all cases killing another human being is wrong."
Re:Dirty deal? by Bert64 · 2007-11-09 05:54 · Score: 1

Bribery is when you offer a personal incentive to someone who is buying on behalf of someone else (ie, with money that doesnt belong to them).
If you offer a free dinner to someone who uses your auto-window service for their own car, then your just sweetening the deal. And someone is free to spend their own money as they see fit, and because its their own money they're more likely to do the research and take the best deal, and it's only them who suffers if they dont.
If someone is in charge of purchasing for a company or even worse, a taxpayer funded entity, they are spending SOMEONE ELSE's money on their behalf. Whoever's money it is wants to get the best deal, and they're paying and trusting someone to get them the best deal. If that person takes a bribe in order to spend more of their employer's money than they needed to, or to obtain an inferior product without a substantial discount, then they are defrauding their employer.
Any sweeteners attached to such a deal should go to the entity that is fronting up the cash, not an employee who's simply doing his job by organising the deal.

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Re:Dirty deal? by zippthorne · 2007-11-09 06:03 · Score: 1

Wait a minute, you were questioning whether bribery is wrong, then you provided an example which isn't bribery. How is providing a definition and hypothetical example of bribery equivalent to saying that Microsoft actually committed it?

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Can you be Even More Awesome?!
Re:Dirty deal? by Anonymous Coward · 2007-11-09 06:12 · Score: 0

You must be the guy who started the whole "IANAL" thing.
Re:Dirty deal? by MightyMartian · 2007-11-09 06:16 · Score: 4, Insightful

This is bizarre, particularly considering the history of monopolies in the US. In a monopoly situation, the customer simply has no choice. The market no longer moderates "what's fair" and "what's not fair".

There are other forms of anti-competitive behavior that are also in the "what's not fair" even if consumers may not be aware of it. Price fixing and dumping come to mind.

The perfect market you seem to have in mind doesn't exist and cannot exist.

Microsoft controls somewhere in the neighborhood of 90% of desktops worldwide. That's a textbook monopoly, and the rules changes for monopolies. Note that merely being a monopoly is not in and of itself illegal, but it does mean that the allowable range of actions changes. If Apple has a secretive, closed development model, it's not creating problems for consumers, but when Microsoft does, it does effect consumers.

Now go back to Redmond, you pathetic Microsoft shill.

--
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Re:Dirty deal? by Asic+Eng · 2007-11-09 06:34 · Score: 1

Ok, so the argument is this: the guy (A) taking a bribe harms his employer (X), so what he's doing is wrong. However the poor innocent business man (B) who offers the bribe just wants to sell his product, so he's doing nothing wrong.
Sorry, this makes no sense. The guy (B) offering the bribe is conspiring with the employee (A) of company (X) in order to profit from selling his inferior product at a higher price. A can not act alone, he always needs B. There is no conceivable benefit to society by making B's actions legal. Unless we are commited into making our economy less efficient, and our system of government more corrupt it's not a sensible course of action. As for the morality of B: he's enabling and persuading A to commit a crime, and he knows he's doing it - that's not moral.
Re:Dirty deal? by Asic+Eng · 2007-11-09 06:38 · Score: 1

If I sell auto-windows and I offer you a free dinner at some restaurant if you use my service, is that "bribery"?
No, but if I hire someone to purchase auto-windows for my business, and he's buying an inferior product for a higher price because you paid him - then you've bribed him.
If you offer a lower price to the party who pays you are not bribing anyone, if you offer the money to a third person, then you are paying a bribe.
Re:Dirty deal? by darjen · 2007-11-09 07:05 · Score: 1

All (B) is doing is offering a discount up front for his product. Why should that be illegal, and how does that make our economy less efficient? If I'm the company who accepts the bribe, I am the one who is doing a real disservice to my shareholders in going with a shoddier product. And as far as corrupting the government goes... since the state is completely immoral in the first place, I don't blame people for finding ways to get around their unjust laws and restrictions. Is it too much to ask state officials to not accept the bribe in the first place? They are the ones who are doing us wrong.
Re:Dirty deal? by Nebu · 2007-11-09 07:35 · Score: 1

So, I have a contract with you to buy 10000 widgets painted in red Du Point paint. And, 3m pays you money to paint them in a 3m yellow. Is that OK?
Yes, it's perfectly ok: I pay you whatever amount of money we agreed on, and you give me the 10'000 widgets painted in red. Fine. That's it: now our contract is fulfilled and over, and those 10'000 widgets are mine, and I can do whatever I want with them, and that includes painting them in yellow if I wanted to.
Re:Dirty deal? by Asic+Eng · 2007-11-09 07:56 · Score: 1

He is not offering a discount to the purchaser, he's bribing his agent. What he's doing is to the detriment of the customer he's selling to. That's the opposite of a discount, he's helping someone to steal the customer's money and he's taking a cut. Why should that be illegal
Because that's just as immoral as the guy taking the bribe. Why should it be immoral to take the bribe? It brings an advantage to the person taking the bribe, and if you are not happy with the performance of your agent you can just hire someone better, right? Let the market decide. Why should it be illegal to steal? If you don't like having your property stolen you can just hire someone to protect it.
the state is completely immoral in the first place
Everybody is doing something immoral, so I can too. Sorry, but that's not even an argument. Even if it was it would just make the whole discussion pointless.
They are the ones who are doing us wrong.
Says someone who lives in a country which allows him to hold private property, who was able to get a good education, has access to clean water, drives on pulic streets, who doesn't have to be afraid that a neighbouring country invades and sells him into slavery. Visit Africa sometime, or have a chat with someone who lived through the Chinese cultural revolution, and then smack yourself up the head for being such a whiner. Seriously, man!
Re:Dirty deal? by gstoddart · 2007-11-09 08:39 · Score: 1

Yes, it's perfectly ok: I pay you whatever amount of money we agreed on, and you give me the 10'000 widgets painted in red. Fine. That's it: now our contract is fulfilled and over, and those 10'000 widgets are mine, and I can do whatever I want with them, and that includes painting them in yellow if I wanted to.

Except, you're not describing what actually happened. Nor are you commenting on what I wrote. You've picked a whole different point to argue, which is unrelated to what happened.

The Nigerian government had a contract with the supplier of the laptops to deliver the machines with Mandriva installed (the red widgets). Microsoft paid the company providing the laptops to wipe out Mandriva (the red widgets) and put on Windows (the yellow widgets), and then deliver it to their customer. The customer explicitly didn't order yellow widgets, they ordered red. The company selling yellow widgets doesn't want people to have red widgets, or even know that red widgets are available, and will do anything to prevent it. The yellow widget company is playing dirty pool.

This is not about the customer being free to do anything they want after they have been delivered what they contracted for. This is a 3rd party bribing the supplier to change what is being delivered without consulting the customer. The customer asked for the red widgets, the suppliler was being paid to deliver yellow widgets instead by someone who wasn't the customer.

In this case, Microsoft had no legal basis to attempt to change the goods deliverable as part of the contract. They just merely tried to pay someone to alter what they'd deliver to their customer without the customer's knowledge or consent.

That's not cool at all.

Cheers

--
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
Re:Dirty deal? by RightSaidFred99 · 2007-11-09 08:45 · Score: 0, Troll

Haha. This, the SlashDweeb day to day line, is Insightful? Give me a break. Microsoft controls 90% of the desktops worldwide because people have made a conscious choice that Microsoft shall control 90% of the market. Microsoft has no pricing power in the desktop OS market at large, of course, since many of the choices are _free_. Strike one against monopoly. There are literally dozens of very strong alternatives to Windows, most of which cost very little - stike two. Strike three is the fact that it's idiotic to claim someone has a monopoly on a piece of intellectual property. Monopoly law only makes sense when dealing with physically limited resources.
Now go back to your mother's basement, you dirty, smelly UNIX dweeb.
Re:Dirty deal? by darjen · 2007-11-09 09:10 · Score: 1

He is not offering a discount to the purchaser, he's bribing his agent.
There is no functional difference between a bribe and a discount. In both cases, the company is paying less money for services offered by the briber than would normally be paid. And it's still a voluntary contract. Stealing is not a voluntary contract. Hopefully you'd see the difference.
Says someone who lives in a country which allows him to hold private property, who was able to get a good education, has access to clean water, drives on pulic streets
Yeah... and a government that takes almost half my money (all levels combined). Doesn't seem like a good deal to me. Personally I would rather purchase the services I want voluntarily. The phrase "happiness in slavery" comes to mind. And they're not exactly doing anything to prevent an invasion by a neighboring country. In fact they're doing quite a lot to provoke the wrath of other countries.
Re:Dirty deal? by Nebu · 2007-11-09 09:21 · Score: 1

Except, you're not describing what actually happened. Nor are you commenting on what I wrote. You've picked a whole different point to argue, which is unrelated to what happened.

I claim that I had commented on what you wrote. As support for this claim, I point out to you that I quoted one of the things you wrote, and directly responded to that.

As for "describing what actually happened", I never meant to imply that I was describing what "actually happened", I'm only responding to what I had quoted in my response to your post.

The Nigerian government had a contract with the supplier of the laptops to deliver the machines with Mandriva installed (the red widgets). Microsoft paid the company providing the laptops to wipe out Mandriva (the red widgets) and put on Windows (the yellow widgets), and then deliver it to their customer. The customer explicitly didn't order yellow widgets, they ordered red. [...] This is not about the customer being free to do anything they want after they have been delivered what they contracted for. This is a 3rd party bribing the supplier to change what is being delivered without consulting the customer. The customer asked for the red widgets, the suppliler was being paid to deliver yellow widgets instead by someone who wasn't the customer.

In this case, Microsoft had no legal basis to attempt to change the goods deliverable as part of the contract. They just merely tried to pay someone to alter what they'd deliver to their customer without the customer's knowledge or consent.

(shrugs) So you claim, but I don't know who you consider to be "the customer" in this scenario, and I don't know how (or if) you managed to get the contents of the actual contract to support your claim.

Either way, I'm not particularly interested in playing devil's advocate in defense of Microsoft here, since the Slashdot crowd seems to easily incorrectly assume that this means I actually approve of MS's behaviour. I was just pointing out what I perceived to be a flaw in your analogy.
Re:Dirty deal? by MightyMartian · 2007-11-09 09:29 · Score: 1

It's odd how several courts, the EU and the DoJ agree with me, but some piece of crap on Slashdot whose the puppet of Redmond thinks he knows better.

Go back to giving Ballmer blowjobs you piece of apologist shit. You're a retard.

--
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Re:Dirty deal? by DECS · 2007-11-09 09:48 · Score: 1

You actually got that backwards. There's nothing "unethical about using marketshare [sic] power" if you have a natural monopoly, because governments (supposedly) regulate them (nationalized gas/phone utilities or local cable monopolies, for example). Any company that uses its market share power to prevent competition is running afoul of antitrust laws.

It's not about competing, it's about preventing competition. Microsoft has never competed well in a level playing field. It has only ever won markets through stealing IP, setting up contracts to prevent competition, and then using its sales to pay off lawsuits later. Microsoft has swept $25,000,000,000 of "corporate level losses" under the table in the last half decade, much of which went to anti-trust lawsuits and settlements. Microsoft spends far more propping up its criminal activities than any drug dealer. Shilling for this company only makes you look equally disingenuous.

Microsoft's Outrageous Office Profits

For Microsoft Apologists, anything is fair up until a company outside of Microsoft does it. It's fine for Microsoft to bundle apps with its monopoly operating system in violation of its consent decree, but if Apple ships iTunes for iPods, that's suddenly a "monopoly" that needs to be stopped.

It's an "outrageous scandal" when Sony installs a root kit to enforce DRM, but when Microsoft builds even more limiting DRM into the OS and bars the user from working around it, it's "a vibrant opportunity to to experience rich media."

Seriously, it's impossible to take your religion seriously. Microsoft is a criminal organization that has to bribe the world to continue in servitude to its third rate products. What motivates you to make excuses for such greedy, arrogant, and technologically backward jokers?

RDM
Re:Dirty deal? by Asic+Eng · 2007-11-09 09:59 · Score: 1

There is no functional difference between a bribe and a discount.
The difference is in who is getting the money. The same difference if you pay a thief to steal something for you, or if you pay the owner to get it.
In both cases, the company is paying less money for services offered by the briber than would normally be paid.
No they don't. It would be a rather special case that the company bribing the agent would be the cheapest - the opposite is a lot more common. In what kind of fantasy world do you live?
And it's still a voluntary contract.
The company did not voluntarily select the highest bidder - they hired someone to select the best suited supplier. They were defrauded. Now if you want to argue that this isn't equivalent to theft, then the agent didn't commit a crime either
Doesn't seem like a good deal to me.
Well then Mr Entitlement - try living somewhere else. Try living somewhere where the government is weak. And as for the low quality of government - people like you who think paying taxes is such a hard burden have a lot to do with that, and your absurd scheme to promote corruption is yet another contribution to it.
Re:Dirty deal? by LingNoi · 2007-11-09 10:42 · Score: 1

You can try and spin it any way you want. It's still wrong because it's anti-competitive.

Like you said in your previous postings about firefox and IE...
I say IE and Mozilla battle it out, release the product, and may the best man win.
How is the best man going to win in this case? Mandriva won the deal to supply their operating system and Microsoft just played dirty and cheated.
Re:Dirty deal? by LingNoi · 2007-11-09 10:50 · Score: 1

Give me a break. Microsoft controls 90% of the desktops worldwide because people have made a conscious choice that Microsoft shall control 90% of the market.
Are you retarded or did you not read the summary/article?

Mandriva won the deal to supply their OS and Microsoft paid the company who is re-distributing these machines to install Windows on the laptops.

Then here you are talking about people's "choice". Idiot.
Re:Dirty deal? by LingNoi · 2007-11-09 11:04 · Score: 1

You just used a strawman. "In all cases, including self defense, killing is wrong. Take for example Ted Bundy who murdered many innocent young women. This, indeed, proves that in all cases killing another human being is wrong."
So you're saying bribery and murder are OK? WTF...

As for your self defence rubbish.. Killing IS wrong. That's why that UK farmer got jailed up for killing in "self defense" with a shotgun while the his bugler victim was 50 yards and running away. I hate "its ok self defense" tards like yourself who are just looking for an excuse to use your guns on people.

Get a life and stop posting your immoral crap. Next you'll be saying rape is ok..
Re:Dirty deal? by RightSaidFred99 · 2007-11-09 13:42 · Score: 1

I'll tell you what motivates me - I find the SlashDweeb crowd to be intellectually disgusting. Most of them know absolutely nothing about the Microsoft side of the fence but they claim Microsoft is "technologically backward". In fact, if you want to know backwards, try to develop an enterprise application using open source tools on Linux. Talk about a joke, _that's_ backwards. As a developer, I find Java on Linux mildly tolerable, but still ages behind .NET in just about every aspect of productivity. Most of you fucking morons think Perl and PHP is hot shit, and Ruby on Rails is cutting edge.
My problem with all of you is you don't know shit - I know more about Linux than most of the Johnny Come Lately FOSS filthy dweebs who post around here, and I get tired of the same old boring, righteous bullshit you all spew day in day out. Ultimately, it amuses me to come refute your utter garbage arguments.
I like your strawmen, by the way. They are outrageously unrelated to anything. MS providing DRM functionality you can use or not use is somehow similar to installing a rootkit without people knowing or consenting? Give me a break. And who's bitched about Itunes? Nobody. You just made that up, or they only bring that up when the "but MS is a monopoly" dweebs crawl out of the woodwork.
Re:Dirty deal? by RightSaidFred99 · 2007-11-09 13:50 · Score: 1

Wow, you take the stupid asshole of the day award for sure! What the hell are you gibbering about? Clearly killing is not, in every case, wrong. Jesus, but you're a dumb bastard.
Re:Dirty deal? by Dahan · 2007-11-09 15:36 · Score: 0

I claim that I had commented on what you wrote. As support for this claim, I point out to you that I quoted one of the things you wrote, and directly responded to that.
If that's what you think you did, you need to work on your reading comprehension.

So, I have a contract with you to buy 10000 widgets painted in red Du Point paint. And, 3m pays you money to paint them in a 3m yellow. Is that OK? Yes, it's perfectly ok: I pay you whatever amount of money we agreed on, and you give me the 10'000 widgets painted in red. No, you got the 10000 widgets painted in yellow. Where do you get the idea that you got any red widgets?
Re:Dirty deal? by Tim+C · 2007-11-10 03:27 · Score: 1

If Apple has a secretive, closed development model, it's not creating problems for consumers
Yes and no. True, the affected consumers could just switch to Windows PCs, but then the same is true of Windows users. In a sense Apple has a 100% monopoly on OS X machines. Now I don't suppose that holds water legally (in fact I'd expect to be laughed out of court if I tried to argue it), but I think your statement is a little simplistic.

Apart from that I agree with you, although I'm also not convinced that the market ever properly moderates what's "fair" and what's "unfair" - just look at broadband provision, and how many services that claim to be unlimited really aren't.

--
It's official. Most of you are morons.
Re:Dirty deal? by darjen · 2007-11-10 08:43 · Score: 1

The difference is in who is getting the money.
Nobody is getting the money. Less money is paid by the company, by the act of the briber who is lowering the price of their goods. That is worlds different than paying someone to steal something. It is amazing you keep equating this with theft.
The company did not voluntarily select the highest bidder - they hired someone to select the best suited supplier. They were defrauded. Now if you want to argue that this isn't equivalent to theft, then the agent didn't commit a crime either.
How can you say it is fraud when the company doing the purchasing still knows what they are getting for their purchase? The one taking the bribe is the one to blame, not the briber. The briber is simply trying to get a contract.
Well then Mr Entitlement - try living somewhere else. Try living somewhere where the government is weak. And as for the low quality of government - people like you who think paying taxes is such a hard burden have a lot to do with that, and your absurd scheme to promote corruption is yet another contribution to it.
You're accusing me of entitlement? It's the voters who continue to approve greater theft of my money who are the ones that somehow feel entitled to it... even though I am the one who worked for the money. And how do I have something to do with the low quality of government? Your reasoning is stunning. Stunning I tell you.
Re:Dirty deal? by Asic+Eng · 2007-11-10 21:54 · Score: 1

How can you say it is fraud when the company doing the purchasing still knows what they are getting for their purchase?
They don't know that - they've hired someone to evaluate that and he's defrauding them.
How can you say it is fraud when the company doing the purchasing still knows what they are getting for their purchase? The one taking the bribe is the one to blame, not the briber.
Make up you mind - if the person taking the bribe is to blame, then it's fraud. If there is no fraud, there is no point in putting blame on anyone.
You're accusing me of entitlement?
Yes, and if you'd take the time to respond and understand my argument, rather then blaming someone else, you might actually get it.

The numbers don't add up by Anonymous Coward · 2007-11-09 04:42 · Score: 0

http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2007/11/09/mandriva-steals-nigerian

Various sources point out that TDC took $400,000 to wipe the machines and put XP on them. The question is; who is paying for the XP licenses. Also, who would pay for the licenses for the other software (eg. Office) that it would take to make the computers useful?

Were TDC going to supply the computers and than tell the Nigerian government: "BTW, the software is extra."? The mind boggles.

Re:The numbers don't add up by symes · 2007-11-09 04:48 · Score: 1

Indeed, the numbers do not add up - $400,000 for 17,000 laptops works out at a cost to microsoft of about $24 per laptop. Which doesn't sound much if the new owners then bought office for each. If I were the Nigerian marketing company I'd have asked for more!
Re:The numbers don't add up by BadHaggis · 2007-11-09 05:03 · Score: 1

The Numbers 1. MSFT Pays: US $400,000 2. TDC Pays Mandriva: US$170,000 ($10 per license for 17,000 licenses) 3. TDC buys 17,000 Licenses from MSFT and charges Nigerian Gov. for overcost. 4. TDC installs XP on 17,000 computers 5. Bot Runners install 17,000 new nodes 6. ??? 7. Profit for Bot Runners and MSFT, and TDC pockets US$230,000 There's the numbers for ya.

--
Homo homini lupus
Re:The numbers don't add up by BadHaggis · 2007-11-09 05:06 · Score: 1

Crud I shoulda Previewed it. :-(
The Numbers
1. MSFT Pays: US $400,000
2. TDC Pays Mandriva: US$170,000 ($10 per license for 17,000 licenses)
3. TDC buys 17,000 Licenses from MSFT and charges Nigerian Gov. for overcost.
4. TDC installs XP on 17,000 computers
5. Bot Runners install 17,000 new nodes
6. ???
7. Profit for Bot Runners and MSFT, and TDC pockets US$230,000
There's the numbers for ya.

--
Homo homini lupus

Business Ethics by hyades1 · 2007-11-09 04:46 · Score: 3, Funny

See what happens when you cheap out? A few million bucks in the Swiss bank accounts of some high government officials would, I'm sure, have smoothed the shiny golden road to a stunning African Vista.

--
I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.

Re:Business Ethics by bflong · 2007-11-09 05:06 · Score: 1

stunning African Vista.

Not even... they were pushing XP...

--
Why is it so hot? Where am I going? What am I doing in this handbasket?

Dirty? by handy_vandal · 2007-11-09 04:48 · Score: 3, Insightful

Nigeria's government has stepped in to stop the dirty deal.

I am not a lawyer, in Nigeria or anywhere else, but is this deal really "dirty"?

The article tells us little:

"After public statements from Mandriva officials implied the marketing deal is legally questionable, Microsoft said last week that it complies with international law and the law of the countries in which it operates."

Mandriva can "imply" that the deal is "legally questionable", but this tells us nearly nothing about the actual legal situation.

Setting aside reflexive Microsoft-bashing, this may be a case of business as usual, legitimately within the scope of the law.

Until someone clarifies the matter by citing actual law, "dirty" seems like an overstatement to me.

-kgj

--
-kgj

Re:Dirty? by Anonymous Coward · 2007-11-09 05:29 · Score: 1, Insightful

The legality of a deal is not really what makes it clean or dirty. The morality of the deal does.

And trying to gut your competitor by convincing part of the chain to swap part of his product for your own, through bribery, is pretty immoral even if it's perfectly legal thanks to Corporate America. :)
Re:Dirty? by Anonymous Coward · 2007-11-09 05:30 · Score: 0

Yepp, as dirty as they come.

Consider the same deal in a different context:

Lets say you are looking to by a brand new dishwasher..

You find one, nice an shiney (and from what you hear from the dishwasher-fanbois, the most reliable on the market). It has a very reasonable price and you are confident that it will wash your dishes really well. Reasonable as you are you decide to shop around to see that this is really the best deal you can make.

You ask around everywhere, but you finally decide that the first dishwasher is the best and that the TCO is the lowest for you. You pay for your brand new dishwasher ... ... and leave the shop without picking up you dishwasher, just to go to a different dealer to pick up something you decided previously was not good enough??

Any monkey able to decide between red, green and blue M'n'M:s can see that something is fishy about this.

---

I cant say who received the bribes, but then again I cant say who ate my last doughnut. The effect is clearly wrong and someone has to pay :-)

If you see someone in business making decisions that do not fit with normal rational behaviour, it is probably because someone is making rational decisions based on an unusuall business environment, such as when bribes are involved.
Re:Dirty? by Anonymous Coward · 2007-11-09 05:39 · Score: 0

Thank you so much for clarifying that 'dirty' is a synonym for 'illegal'. I've always thought it was something like 'morally wrong'. But then, I'm not a native speaker, as you probably are.
Re:Dirty? by AdamWill · 2007-11-09 06:05 · Score: 1

We never really implied that it was illegal, but that it was unethical. That's why Francois asked Mr. Ballmer how well he sleeps at night. That's not a question you ask someone you think has done something *illegal*, but a question you ask someone you think has done something *wrong*.

Personally I'd say, if you have a choice, it's far better to do something ethically right but legally wrong than legally right but ethically wrong. And if you can do ethically right and legally right, the choice seems obvious. =)
Re:Dirty? by Svartalf · 2007-11-09 06:26 · Score: 1

Yes. In fact, it's illegal for a US based business to be DOING this sort of thing. If there's enough evidence, Microsoft is very much guilty of violating the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act.

--
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
Re:Dirty? by Anonymous Coward · 2007-11-09 06:48 · Score: 0

Mandriva can "imply" that the deal is "legally questionable", but this tells us nearly nothing about the actual legal situation.

This is very rational and clear minded. It also goes against the inflammatory summary. We don't take kindly to your type around here.
Re:Dirty? by darkfire5252 · 2007-11-09 08:21 · Score: 1

When the government disallows a deal involving a large financial incentive to a company in exchange for acting in the interests of the party offering the money, I'm pretty sure you can safely call that dirty.

And it only cost M$... by httpdotcom · 2007-11-09 04:49 · Score: 1

...a measely $23.50 per license.
Hard to justify $250-$500 upgrade cost of Vista using those numbers.

Ummm by Reality+Master+101 · 2007-11-09 04:49 · Score: -1, Troll

If you RTFA, Microsoft attempted to do a deal with a *private company* who was supplying the computers. No "bribery" here, just two companies making an agreement. Sure, Microsoft's motivation is to move more software over a competitor, but why is that a problem? If Microsoft wants to discount its software or given the company some other benefit, then whatever.

Why is this even a story? Oh, because it's Microsoft trying to outcompete a Linux supplier, therefore, it's intrinsically evil.

The only news here is that the Nigerian government decided to tell the supplier that they preferred the Linux distribution. Interesting, but hardly a conspiracy.

--
Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.

Re:Ummm by WhiteWolf666 · 2007-11-09 05:01 · Score: 4, Insightful

No "bribery" here, just two companies making an agreement. Sure, Microsoft's motivation is to move more software over a competitor, but why is that a problem? If Microsoft wants to discount its software or given the company some other benefit, then whatever.

It's called "dumping", and in the U.S., is illegal when conducted by a monopolist. It also tend to violate a variety of world trade rules.

Furthermore, even if one can construe a scenario where it is legal (international run around the law?), it is extremely underhanded and a waste of government resources (they'd be paying for Windows and Linux).

As such, here are the issues:
1. It's probably illegal, and should be, but I'm not a lawyer.
2. Even if its not illegal, its shady business. And it demonstrates more and more than no sane company should get into bed with Microsoft, because Microsoft will do anything and everything to screw you.

--
WhiteWolf666 an exBush supporter. All you new-school,compassionate,save the children Republicans can rot in hell
Re:Ummm by Pecisk · 2007-11-09 05:05 · Score: 4, Informative

Man, people these days...

I know that there is common misunderstanding and false assumption that bribery is only possible in government level. No, in business world it happens even more frequently and it IS illegal (Even if some business people would like to think otherwise). I won't get into details how much laws Microsoft broke with doing this, but please, people, keep that in mind - business or government level, such actions are illegal and can get your sorry ass to the courtroom in any country.

--
user@ubuntubox:~$ stfu This server is going down for shutdown NOW!
Re:Ummm by geekoid · 2007-11-09 05:29 · Score: 1

Depends on your country, and sometimes (not this time) it's hard to tell what is a bribe.
In some countries it is rude if you don't take a gift, in others it is rude if you don't give a gift.
Gifts are generally a reflection of personal wealth. So a billionaire from one of these countries might give a gift worth many thousands of dollars, and not expect any special treatment in return.

--
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
Re:Ummm by NullProg · 2007-11-09 05:49 · Score: 3, Insightful

Why is this even a story? Oh, because it's Microsoft trying to outcompete a Linux supplier, therefore, it's intrinsically evil.
Evil, NO. Unethical, YES. No one likes a cheater.

What is your definition of competition? A kickback or bribe includes any item intended to improperly obtain favorable treatment. Why didn't Microsoft just lower the per unit license cost to match Mandrakes? Are you saying that on a level playing field, Windows looses to Linux?

From the article:
Mba-Uzoukwu wrote that Microsoft is still negotiating an agreement that would give TSC US$400,000 (£190,323) for marketing activities around the Classmate PCs when those computers are converted to Windows.

Where have I heard this before? Oh Yeah, the anti-trust hearing:

In addition, Plaintiffs are concerned that there is some confusion among OEMs relating to the application of certain portions of the MDA to OEM advertisements for computers containing non-Microsoft operating systems. Pursuant to the MDA, Microsoft provides marketing funds -- in the form of discounts on the price the OEM pays for each copy of Windows -- to OEMs whose print advertisements and websites promote Microsoft's operating systems in a manner specified by Microsoft.

http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/cases/f205700/205751.htm

Enjoy,

--
It's just the normal noises in here.
Re:Ummm by Anonymous Coward · 2007-11-09 05:57 · Score: 0

I agree 200%. If MS is not doing this at home, why should it be allowed to do on a different country? is that the way to bend law?
Re:Ummm by Bert64 · 2007-11-09 06:05 · Score: 4, Insightful

Not only is it illegal in business, but taking a bribe often results in you being professionally incompetent.

If you worked for me, and i gave you the task of "Book me the best value business-class flight to australia"...
Let's say the best value would be Qantas, and they would fly me direct to australia business class for $4000...
But you received a bribe from United, who paid you $1000 to buy a ticket from them instead...
Their ticket costs $6000 and has a stopover half way, and thus takes longer.

You would benefit from the $1000 bribe, United would benefit from a sale. I would lose out on my time and $2000, because you used my money to buy me an inferior (slower) service that costs more.
You didn't do your job properly.
You wasted my money for your own personal benefit, you effectively stole from me and gave it to United, in exchange for a cut of it back.

Taking a bribe to spend someone else's money is fraud, and should be prosecuted accordingly. Also whoever actually took the bribe is not doing their job properly regardless of the law, and should be fired.

--
http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
Re:Ummm by DragonWriter · 2007-11-09 07:09 · Score: 2, Informative

It's called "dumping", and in the U.S., is illegal when conducted by a monopolist.

And not just "when done in the US". If its done anywhere in the world with the intent (even if its not the only intent) of reinforcing a US monopoly (such as, say, by preventing broader global adoption of Linux which would put pressure on US marketshare as more desirable software was available exclusively for Linux, providing an incentive for people to switch from Windows) it can violate US antitrust law.
Re:Ummm by Anonymous Coward · 2007-11-10 07:01 · Score: 0

isn't getting screwed the *point* of going to bed with someone?

France and Nigeria by Anonymous Coward · 2007-11-09 04:51 · Score: 2, Funny

I learned that Mandriva is a French outfit. So, perhaps a handiwork of Sarkozy?

Should this actionable against Microsoft? by erroneus · 2007-11-09 04:51 · Score: 4, Insightful

Now that the dirty deal is uncovered, the first question is:

"If this were done in the US, would it be considered illegal?"

The next question would be:

"If yes, then should Microsoft be prosecuted?"

Further:

"If not, then why not?"

And for all the Microsoft apologists:

"Is this sort of behavior acceptable from your favorite software vendor/publisher/distributor, business partner? And if so, why is it acceptable? If not, please elaborate?"

Re:Should this actionable against Microsoft? by Jah-Wren+Ryel · 2007-11-09 05:08 · Score: 2, Interesting

Now that the dirty deal is uncovered, the first question is:
"If this were done in the US, would it be considered illegal?"
The next question would be:
"If yes, then should Microsoft be prosecuted?" Well, this is gonna be another slashdot bullshit claim with no backup because I am too lazy to go digging...

My understanding is that US law requires that US corps not do things in other countries that would be illegal in the USA. My belief is based on some news articles about a US company that was caught bribing foreign government officials in order to get contracts with them - might have been IBM in Brazil now that I think about it. Apparently what they did in the foreign countries was technically not illegal over there, but was definitely illegal here and they were being prosecuted because of it.

Anyway, maybe that's enough info to convince a studious classdot reader to go research the details and prove me wrong or write.

--
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
Re:Should this actionable against Microsoft? by m0shen · 2007-11-09 05:18 · Score: 2, Insightful

While I do not condone microsoft's actions, I must point out that this is how international firms operate in nations that are perceived as "corrupt". Funds used for bribery are chalked up as business expenses. While in this instance, microsoft's actions are particularly spiteful and could be considered juvenile, I would like to recreate a scenario from a business ethics course. You work for company A. Company A produces a brand new AIDS cure. You have been notified that your first massive shipment of AIDS cure is held up at the borders of desperate corrupt country. You go to see what the matter is and there seems to be a hold up in customs. Your AIDS cure is time sensitive, it will be destroyed if not stored properly. The customs official hints that if you give him a handout, he will grant immediate release. What do you do? There is no 'correct' answer. Do you uphold the law and report him, potentially losing the shipment and possibly the lives of those it will save? Or do you pay him off for 'the greater good'? I know the example is a bit extreme, but there are areas in the world were bribery is an accepted practice. Until these systems are removed, all firms have to work within them or be at a comparative disadvantage.
Re:Should this actionable against Microsoft? by Anonymous Coward · 2007-11-09 06:16 · Score: 0

1) Yes
2) No
3) Campaign contributions, large piles of money yada yada

4) Yes, as long as i'll get my cut. I want a yacht.

Any further questions ? :)

Signed: the allmighty Anonymous Coward
Re:Should this actionable against Microsoft? by Typoboy · 2007-11-09 06:17 · Score: 1

Foreign Corrupt Practices Act?
Re:Should this actionable against Microsoft? by Anonymous Coward · 2007-11-09 07:31 · Score: 0

Now that the dirty deal is uncovered,

What exactly is it about the deal that is "dirty". Before you say "bribery", can you find where in the article it actually mentions a bribery taking place? (hint: the article never mentions bribery)

the first question is:

"If this were done in the US, would it be considered illegal?"

I don't think what they did was illegal, but IANAL, and honestly, I find the US's legal system pretty crazy these days.

The next question would be:

"If yes, then should Microsoft be prosecuted?"

If what they did were illegal, then yes, they should be prosecuted. But since what they did is not illegal, then they should not be prosecuted. (Wow, these questions are pretty easy, and not very deep; wonder why they got upmodded)

Further:

"If not, then why not?"

I think "If you did something illegal, you should be prosecuted, and if you didn't do something illegal, you should not be prosecuted" covers this.

And for all the Microsoft apologists:

"Is this sort of behavior acceptable from your favorite software vendor/publisher/distributor, business partner? And if so, why is it acceptable? If not, please elaborate?"

I'm going to say "Yes, it's acceptable", but I'm going to prevent you from being sneaky and pretending I said bribery is acceptable by pointing out to you that when you say "this sort of behavior", I'm assuming you mean the sort of behavior outlined in the article, as opposed to the bribery that you would like people to believe that Microsoft had done.
Re:Should this actionable against Microsoft? by erroneus · 2007-11-09 08:39 · Score: 1

The article states that the Nigerian government expected to get computers with Mandriva on them. This other party contracted by the Nigerian government was to be paid a lot of money to put windows on the computers before they deploy them for the Nigerian government.

Microsoft was interfering with a deal between the Nigerian government and whoever was selling the computers to them.

Would you consider it wrong if you were to order a computers from Dell with Linux on it only to have Dell's or your own contractor install Windows on them before you take receipt of them?

This is what Microsoft was trying to do before the Nigerian government put a stop to it.

This is quite literally interfering with international commerce! The FBI should be involved and possibly a lot more.
Re:Should this actionable against Microsoft? by rat10177sd · 2007-11-09 09:06 · Score: 0

Personally, knowing beforehand that I "might" be dealing with a corrupt Official/Company/Government, I would make sure to have Witnesses/Legal Surveillance equipment available at the time the Payment/Offer thereof is made. Then I would get the medication to the people that need it, and turn my evidence in to the Proper Authorities.
.
.
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This Sig is brought to by the friendly folks at Acme Industries, favorite of Coyotes everywhere.
Re:Should this actionable against Microsoft? by dbIII · 2007-11-09 21:05 · Score: 1

The next step is to make bribery illegally in the USA.
(Ducks behind asbestos covered armour plate and mutters about the lobby system and paid nights in the Lincoln Bedroom).

Now, now. by pavon · 2007-11-09 04:51 · Score: 4, Insightful

The Nigerian officials are just upset the supplier is the one being bribed and not them :)

so this criminal points the finger at others.... by Anonymous Coward · 2007-11-09 04:51 · Score: 0

Nigeria makes a claim that someone else is corrupt, and people believe them?

Well, since this is /., a well known MS bashing place, that bashes first and ignores the truth,then this should be expected.

No, no, no, that's not how its done. by bflynn · 2007-11-09 04:53 · Score: 3, Funny

The way it works is that the people in Nigeria send you money. I'm waiting on my 5% commission for moving $48,000,000,000 right now!

Still illegal by trolltalk.com · 2007-11-09 04:54 · Score: 4, Interesting

Ever since the Lockheed bribery scandal, its been illegal for US citizens or corporations to bribe anyone, anywhere in the world, same as its illegal for them to engage in pedophilia abroad.

So, how much $$$ (campaign contributions - the only "legal" bribe) Microsoft is going to spend to "make this go away"?

--
Kevin Smith on Prince

Re:Still illegal by Anonymous Coward · 2007-11-09 05:33 · Score: 0

its been illegal for US citizens or corporations to bribe anyone, anywhere in the world, same as its illegal for them to engage in pedophilia abroad.

Don't forget shooting rhinos from a helicopter.
Re:Still illegal by Anonymous Coward · 2007-11-09 05:34 · Score: 2, Informative

IANAL, but I believe the pertinent law is the FPCA = Foreign Corrupt Practices Act.
Re:Still illegal by Anonymous Coward · 2007-11-09 05:46 · Score: -1, Troll

Or spraying indiscriminate gunfire into a crowd of Iraqi civilians from the back of an armoured Blackwater SUV ... ... oh wait, hang on a second ...
Re:Still illegal by marafa · 2007-11-09 05:48 · Score: 0

please! its called a PAC political action C-mthing or other and its legal in the US to accept bribes that get washed through these PACs.

--
_ In Egypt Networks: Network Solutions with a Twist
Re:Still illegal by Anonymous Coward · 2007-11-09 06:25 · Score: 1, Informative

Pedophilia is a mental disorder, not an activity, nor a legal concept. You meant child molestation.
Re:Still illegal by Anonymous Coward · 2007-11-09 06:53 · Score: 0

Glad I dont work for BAE SYSTEMS who require ethics training and pay Saudi prince $1B. http://www.angloarabia.com/bribery/slushfund.html http://www.guardian.co.uk/baefiles/story/0,,2097149,00.html

Do they require ethics training at Microsoft?
Re:Still illegal by DragonWriter · 2007-11-09 06:59 · Score: 1

Ever since the Lockheed bribery scandal [wikipedia.org], its been illegal for US citizens or corporations to bribe anyone, anywhere in the world,

Yes, but its rather dubious whether paying a company involved in an enterprise a fee to replace a product they've already purchased for use in that enterprise with your product is legally a "bribe". Had they directly paid Nigerian government officials to direct the company to drop Linux and adopt Windows, that would be different.

Anywho, the US government let them off with barely a slap on the wrist when they were found guilty of violating anti-trust law, you think there is going to be much effort for pressing this kind of issue?
Re:Still illegal by octal666 · 2007-11-09 07:02 · Score: 1

I swear i read "legal" instead of "illegal"

--
DON'T PANIC
Re:Still illegal by Fieryphoenix · 2007-11-09 09:25 · Score: 2, Funny

Don't forget shooting rhinos from a helicopter

Thanks for mentioning that. I had begun to wonder what Cheney's been up to all this time since he dropped out of the news.
Re:Still illegal by toriver · 2007-11-09 12:18 · Score: 2, Informative

Or in the case of sexual conduct with a teen under the age of consent: statutory rape.

(I just mention it because a lot of people think that doing that makes you a pedophile, but the latter are attracted to pre-pubertal children. Age of consent on the other hand varies from 12-21 around the world and thus is hard to use as a marking stick in that sense.)
Re:Still illegal by Anonymous Coward · 2007-11-09 22:24 · Score: 0

Or in the case of sexual conduct with a teen under the age of consent: statutory rape.

Which can quite easily involve a post puberty young person with an orientation towards older people.

(I just mention it because a lot of people think that doing that makes you a pedophile, but the latter are attracted to pre-pubertal children. Age of consent on the other hand varies from 12-21 around the world and thus is hard to use as a marking stick in that sense.)

Actually the age of consent varies from zero to infinity. That latter even being present within the USA. There also undoubtedly exist pre-pubescents over the age of 21.

It's just tipping by Harmonious+Botch · 2007-11-09 04:55 · Score: 5, Interesting

Seriously, you have a very good point. That is the way business is done in some third world countries. They don't consider it wrong. Anyone with power expects to be paid, much like waitresses expect to be tipped here.
Microsoft apparently failed to pay all of the right people.

Re:It's just tipping by wattrlz · 2007-11-09 05:25 · Score: 2, Insightful

Most first and second world countries too.
Re:It's just tipping by xcomputer_man · 2007-11-09 06:15 · Score: 5, Interesting

Actually, I don't think so. Nigeria has had a reputation for a long time for being one of the most corrupt countries in the world, but ever since the new president Umaru Yar'Adua was elected earlier this year, he has been on a major crusade to eliminate corruption and enforce the rule of law. So I'm not surprised that this happened -- it's only one in what is becoming a long list of surprising moves by the Nigerian government lately. He was the first president ever to declare his personal assets. Just yesterday we heard that he revoked several arbitrary allocations of prime real estate in the most upscale suburb of Abuja (the capital city) that were given by the previous administration to top government officials. One of the plots of land was allocated to Yar'Adua himself. I lived in Nigeria for 17 years, and I have never heard of a president revoking his own land allocation.

I'd say Microsoft *did* try to bribe someone thinking it was business as usual in Nigeria, and the federal government heard about it and said "Uh, no. You can take your $400,000 and shove it."

--
Am I a hipster-doofus?
Re:It's just tipping by h4rm0ny · 2007-11-09 07:33 · Score: 1

Of course there's another option, which is simply that the government of Nigeria decided that Mandriva Linux was the better option regardless of "incentives." Maybe they saw the Microsoft deal for what it was - cheap now, pay later. Or possibly they don't trust an operating system where there's strong reason to believe that there are backdoors for the US government. In any case, let's not forget that there are solid reasons for choosing Mandriva and kick backs might not be the biggest factor for once.

--

Aide-toi, le Ciel t'aidera - Jeanne D'Arc.
Re:It's just tipping by TheLink · 2007-11-09 07:36 · Score: 2, Insightful

I wonder how long Umaru will live for.

If he's actually cleaning things up, I hope he somehow escapes harm for a long long time - Nigeria does need a big clean up, and given the amount of oil and other stuff it has it could actually do very well if all the money just wasn't draining away due to corruption.
--
- Too many replies beneath your current threshold
Re:It's just tipping by Sudheer_BV · 2007-11-09 07:49 · Score: 1

Politicians invest in election campaigns. They spend a lot of money to bribe party workers, voters, polling booth fraudsters and the rest of the company. They expect exponential returns for their investment. This is an open secret in third world countries. And many be first and second world countries too.

--
Sudheer Satyanarayana
www.techchorus.net
Re:It's just tipping by dch24 · 2007-11-09 10:16 · Score: 2, Interesting

The interesting thing is that, whether he lives to a ripe old age or not, his reputation -- even on slashdot -- is immortal.

I suppose that other discussions about our civil liberties in the UK, the US, and elsewhere, come down to the same thing. Live comfortably for a few years? Or risk life and limb for liberty, and maybe your grandchildren will remember you. "Give me liberty, or give me death" - Patrick Henry, 1775
Re:It's just tipping by Thing+1 · 2007-11-09 15:44 · Score: 2, Funny

The interesting thing is that, whether he lives to a ripe old age or not, his reputation -- even on slashdot -- is immortal.

Well, as Woody Allen said, "I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve it through not dying. "

--
I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.

I thought corruption was only a 3rd world problem by bogaboga · 2007-11-09 04:57 · Score: 1

If what I am reading is correct, then that's good for Nigeria. I must admit that I thought corruption was a problem of the 3rd world alone. But now, we see that a [major] US corporation was perpetuating corruption.

No wonder our economy is almost in doldrums. Can we sue Microsoft in any court of law? The other day, a senator from the south was fighting corruption charges.

To those Africans and poor nations of the world that I was prejudiced about, I say: "I am sorry," since I now realize that the "cancer" of corruption is alive and well in societies that are known to be well off economically.

Shame on you Microsoft!

Update 2: Windows Afterall by Dak+RIT · 2007-11-09 05:01 · Score: 3, Interesting

"'We are sticking with that platform,' said the official, who would not give his name.

The organisation reserves the right to choose whichever platform is best for Nigerian students, which could also include Microsoft's software in the future, said the official."

Does anyone else get the impression that's code for: "$400,000 would go a long way in convincing me that Microsoft's software is best for Nigerian students."? Sounds like Microsoft just forgot to include Nigerian officials in on the deal.

Bribes are still bribes, even for companies. by emj · 2007-11-09 05:01 · Score: 1

I have no idea how this deal was made, but if you got my company a $400.000 marketing deal I'm sure I could see to it that that money comes into my personal possession. Things get more complicated when you have big companies and lawyers, but when you pay a company to do something it is still a bribe, perhaps not always legally but morally.

Re:Bribes are still bribes, even for companies. by handy_vandal · 2007-11-09 05:12 · Score: 1

Things get more complicated when you have big companies and lawyers, but when you pay a company to do something it is still a bribe, perhaps not always legally but morally.

I agree about the moral aspect. But courts are supposed to operate on the basis of legal precedent, irrespective of morality.

Personally, I think it's a bribe. But the article doesn't use the words "dirty" or "bribe". All I'm asking for is clarification from someone who has the facts.

-kgj

--
-kgj
Re:Bribes are still bribes, even for companies. by dbIII · 2007-11-09 21:02 · Score: 1

In actual practice no real dirt was involved. However in common usage of english people can be described as lying rodents even if they are not covered in fur and unethical deals can be decribed as dirty even if no mud changes hands. There isn't much point splitting hairs over emotive language especially on an international forum, it's as pointless as correcting the spelling of color to colour or vice versa.

Don't forget to digg the article! by Anonymous Coward · 2007-11-09 05:02 · Score: -1, Offtopic

... in the second page!

The next move in this strategic battle by backwardvisionary · 2007-11-09 05:09 · Score: 1

Although the article is not very precise about the source of the information, to me it's more important to watch how the 2 companies will handle this case. Beyong the real value of the OSes, more importantly business ethics is at stake here and if I was the big player I would prefer to lose this deal rather than having an endless battle and debate and possibly even worse about the way this deal was finally won. If you were one of the 2 parties, what would be your winning crisis management strategy ? --------- By Anonymous Hero : anonymous writers from totalitarian countries are nothing like cowards.

"Lobbying" by Anonymous Coward · 2007-11-09 05:11 · Score: 1, Insightful

In the United States, the legal way for companies to influence government authorities with indirect or implied monetary incentive is called "Lobbying".

Re:"Lobbying" by tsa · 2007-11-09 08:56 · Score: 4, Insightful

Hehe, I had a Nigerian colleague once, and after some talks with him I told my Dutch friend who lives in America that bribery in America might even be worse than in Nigeria. "Yes," he told me, "but here it's legalized!"

--
-- Cheers!

I can see the headline now by btarval · 2007-11-09 05:13 · Score: 5, Funny

Microsoft can't even pay people to use Windows

Yes, this is a P.R. disaster in the making, in more ways than one.

--
The best way to predict the future is to create it. - Peter Drucker.

Re:I can see the headline now by Warbothong · 2007-11-10 00:58 · Score: 1

The number of times people say to me that they're hurting Microsoft because they're using an unlicensed copy of Windows has become so frustrating. Microsoft is one of the largest corporations in the world, they don't give a crap about what some Joe Nobody does, it's all just statistics for them, and if copying Windows hurts Microsoft then why are they such a huge juggernaut in a world full of unlicensed copies?
This story shows that the reverse is true, that anybody, anywhere who is running Windows, licensed or not, is helping Microsoft. Microsoft paying people to use Windows clearly shows this, since $400,000 isn't a small sum, thus having 17,000 unpaying users is worth more than $400,000 to MS.
Of course, a decade ago this wouldn't have happened, since MS knew that they were firmly entrenched. These days, however, Microsoft is scared of Linux and Free Software. The only thing keeping Windows around is, ironically, interoperability, so switching to Linux can be a bit difficult with regards to sharing files with the Windows machines around you, running off the shelf programs, etc. (although it's improving all the time), but when there are big installations like this that reason goes out of the window: If everyone around you is using Linux (or whatever, since open standards like ODF, SVG, etc. are often implemented in (non-MS) proprietary programs too) then there is no reason not to run it yourself. The difference is that switching to something else in the future should be a lot less painful.

Microsoft tacts are to ensure vendor lock. by HermMunster · 2007-11-09 05:14 · Score: 2, Interesting

These countries building their technologies need to try at least to understand the negative impact of vendor lock in. With open source the road is full bright and open, like a true vista. With windows you condemn your nation to Microsoft's spyware. (As Vista has 47 programs that collect information about you and send it back to Microsoft, not counting the WGA/WGN. This process is essentially the equivalent of say having Walmart coming to your home on any given Sunday morning asking to search your belongings to ensure that those items in your home that come from Walmart are legally purchased, just because you are a shopper at Walmart. Because Microsoft does it with hidden programs (or hidden cameras) makes no difference. You wouldn't allow Walmart to place hidden cameras in your home).

We all know about the vendor lock ins such as DirectX which keep you playing on and paying for Windows. With true OpenGL development you could find games on a number of platforms. There are many more lock in technologies and DRM was Microsoft's most important one until everyone revolted over it. It is still their number one hope to lock you into the Windows platform.

So, let's hope that Nigeria has the experienced personnel in the right positions of influence capable of understanding what is happening to ensure that it doesn't happen there. If so, let's hope other regional governments learn from the negatives of vendor lock in and the sometimes illegal influences Microsoft exerts.

90% of all people can benefit from Linux in that it does what those people need it to do, day in and day out. It is solid, safe, trusted, proven, performs very well, and is attractive. Most of the popular distros have taken the approach of ease of use for the customer, the development cycle for open source is superior to the closed source development cycle. The access to the programming code is also an incredible benefit unavailable (likely never will be available) to the government and the peoples of the world, whereas with open source if there's a conflict bug you can look at both project's code and resolve your issue yourself (as a programmer for some group).

Hopefully we'll see that other governments understand that it is important to put measures into place that secure them from the influences and lock ins created by using Microsoft products.

--
You can lead a man with reason but you can't make him think.

Re:Microsoft tacts are to ensure vendor lock. by Anonymous Coward · 2007-11-10 10:46 · Score: 0

What? DRM has *nothing* to do with Microsoft. Microsoft chooses to support it, because without it you couldn't so much as play a DVD movie in the future without it. What about protected downloaded media, such as movies? Can't do that without DRM. You can thank RIAA and MPAA for that gem. The DRM tech in Vista isn't even active unless it's necessary.

Your Wal-Mart analogy is also a bit flawed. It has nothing to do with everything on your system. WGA only authenticates your Windows installation, not your pirated warez. Buy a legal license, and WGA will not be an issue.

47 instances of spyware in Vista? Don't you think these kinds of things would be regularly outed on tech sites?

640k enough for anyone? by denzacar · 2007-11-09 05:14 · Score: 0, Offtopic

I hate to contradict my own jokes but...

Imagine that they HAVE paid them 640k instead of 400, and that it was enough... wouldn't that make that old 640k saying finally correct... but since we would not hear about it then we would never know...

Kind of a like tree falling in a forest without anyone there to hear it.

Mind-boggling.

--
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens

I feel a disturbance in the force... by yorugua · 2007-11-09 05:15 · Score: 3, Funny

... as if 17.000 chairs cried in despair and then suddenly were silenced.

Re:I feel a disturbance in the force... by Anonymous Coward · 2007-11-09 05:54 · Score: 1, Funny

...17.000 chairs...

17 very significant chairs!

Not illegal? by Anonymous Coward · 2007-11-09 05:15 · Score: 5, Insightful

After public statements from Mandriva officials implied the marketing deal is legally questionable, Microsoft said last week that it complies with international law and the law of the countries in which it operates.

Except for the US and the EU, of course, where it is a convicted monopolist.

In fact, the statement "Microsoft complies with law" is demonstrably false. The courts have spoken.

Re:Not illegal? by memfrob · 2007-11-09 06:52 · Score: 1

In fact, the statement "Microsoft complies with law" is demonstrably false. The courts have spoken.

From their point of view, though, they are complying with the law. As far as they're concerned, the law doesn't say "Don't abuse a monopoly position", it says "If you abuse a monopoly position, you will need to pay X dollars."

For a lot of large companies, judgements and fines are just another cost of doing (dirty) business.

--
The Wizard utters the word 'frobnoid!' and cackles gleefully
Re:Not illegal? by Nebu · 2007-11-09 09:34 · Score: 1

After public statements from Mandriva officials implied the marketing deal is legally questionable, Microsoft said last week that it complies with international law and the law of the countries in which it operates.

Except for the US and the EU, of course, where it is a convicted monopolist.

In fact, the statement "Microsoft complies with law" is demonstrably false. The courts have spoken.

No, no, you've misunderstood. What Microsoft said was "last week we complied with international law and the law of the countries in which we operate." They made no promises about the week before that, nor the week thereafter.
Re:Not illegal? by martin-boundary · 2007-11-09 14:10 · Score: 1

Bah, since when do criminals get to decide if what they're doing complies with the law or not?

It's everywhere by mpapet · 2007-11-09 05:16 · Score: 1

FYI: While it's nice to see some blow-by-blow news regarding government contracting, it's pretty much this way everywhere in the world.

The GSA and Sun Microsystems are being accused of corruption in the U.S. http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2007/11/08/iowa-senator-rips-investigation

--
http://www.maxineudall.com/2010/02/should-economists-be-sued-for-malpractice.html

Nothing to see here - just a 419 scam by cliveholloway · 2007-11-09 05:16 · Score: 1

Jeez, and they didn't even blink when they wrote the check out to "Father Bukkake".

I bet MS feel like idiots right now for that one...

--
-- Trinity in high heels carrying a whip: The donimatrix - there is no spoonerism

only when caught and forced to do so... by Anonymous Coward · 2007-11-09 05:18 · Score: 0

Microsoft said last week that it complies with international law and the law of the countries in which it operates.

Sheah, right they do.

slashdot AC tags: USantitrust, EUantitrust, chairthrowing, developersdevelopersdevelopers, monkeydance

I grew up in the "third world" by cesman · 2007-11-09 05:18 · Score: 5, Interesting

I for one am very happy to see this stopped! I grew up in a "third world" county (Belize), when my siblings and I joined our parents in the US, I recall one of the first things they did was get us a computer (CoCo 2). I wouldn't be where I am today if they had not (good job and my own little project http://mysettopbox.tv/knoppmyth.html/ ). While I did do some growing up on Windows, it has been almost 9 years since I switched to using Linux exclusively at home. As someone that grew up in a developing nation, I firmly believe there is no better option for it that FLOSS.

Education and technology can level the playing field. Perhaps in the first world, we can afford to argue about the merits of FLOSS vs closed source. However, this isn't the case when you are worried about where your next meal is coming from or if you can afford to vaccinate your child. The Gates Foundation could really show it's altruism by helping to support OLPC or the Classmate PC.

Cecil

--
When the source is open, the possibilities are endless.

Re:I grew up in the "third world" by PPH · 2007-11-09 06:08 · Score: 1

As someone that grew up in a developing nation, I firmly believe there is no better option for it that FLOSS.
FLOSS. Isn't that something that the British need? (Ducking and running).

--
Have gnu, will travel.

Cue 419 Scam by Spy+der+Mann · 2007-11-09 05:18 · Score: 1

Dear sir: I am the former CEO of a Nigerian IT company. Lately we had been offered a large amount of money by Microsoft Corporation in order to install Microsoft Windows on very cheap laptops, but due to excessive government regulations, the deal has been ruined. Now I have been forced to leave the country, along with a hundred million dollars, that I'm willing to share, provided that...

Thank you... by denzacar · 2007-11-09 05:23 · Score: 0, Offtopic

Thank you, anonymous moderator...

I was aiming at funny, with light chances of insightful, but you just read the title and marked it as offtopic.

Thank you, you humourless git.

--
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens

Re:Thank you... by Teun · 2007-11-09 09:54 · Score: 1

--
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens Your sig says it all :)

--
"The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
Re:Thank you... by denzacar · 2007-11-10 10:18 · Score: 1

Particularly since "the joke" I am referring to WAS moderated as Funny.

As well as someone's reply to it that had the title of this post's GP as its punchline.

--
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens

Who to blame? by dafradu · 2007-11-09 05:24 · Score: 4, Interesting

Big corporations bribing government officials, i've seen this a million times, i'm brazilian... Just recently it was Cisco in Brazil http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/10/16/2334253 and now MS in Nigeria. I've only seen people been arrested or fired, couldn't the corporation be fined or something? Apart from theirs reputation, the corporation itself in the end is clean to continue doing its dirty business...

Re:I thought corruption was only a 3rd world probl by Anonymous Coward · 2007-11-09 05:25 · Score: 5, Insightful

I must admit that I thought corruption was a problem of the 3rd world alone. But now, we see that a [major] US corporation was perpetuating corruption.

Finally got tired of living under a rock, huh?

That leaves the obvious question... by Minwee · 2007-11-09 05:28 · Score: 2, Funny

So what is going to happen to all of the money?

Fortunately, I happen to have a contact at the Technology Support Centre who has offered to cut me in for a 40% share if I can help him get the money out of Nigeria. He contacted me personally on this highly confidential financial transaction after my having been recommended by an associate in confidence of my ability and reliability...

This is AWESOME!!! by Anonymous Coward · 2007-11-09 05:28 · Score: -1, Troll

So old Stevie "BBB" Ballmer (That's Bald, Big, and Butt-Ugly) finally got caught giving head! Of course it could have been Craig Mundie, I've heard he's a pretty good cock-sucker as well! My respect to the Nigerian government for their honesty. My respect to the European community for keeping up the anti-trust ruling against microsloth. And my complete contempt to the US government, most of all Bush, who dismissed the anti-trust case. When Clinton held office, we had a chance to bust up microsloth and put an end to the monopoly. I'd LOVE to see the Nigerian government put a ban on microsloth for the next ten years!

François, from Mandriva by not_hylas(+) · 2007-11-09 05:45 · Score: 1

François, from Mandriva

Says it all.

http://blog.mandriva.com/2007/10/31/an-open-letter-to-steve-ballmer/

Why does MS insist on exhibiting NO CLASS?
Duck Amuck?
Ignore them and hopefully they'll go away.
(blush - is MY BIAS showing - blush, bats eyelashes to looney tunes soundtrack)

http://www.sarakadee.com/feature/2002/12/images/animate_02.jpg

http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/7/7c/Looney_Tunes.png

--
~hylas

Brush your teeth with dog shit by spun · 2007-11-09 05:51 · Score: 1

You obviously haven't read the article. Let me quote:

Mandriva had closed a deal in mid-August to provide a customised Linux operating system and support for 17,000 Intel Classmate PCs intended for Nigerian schools, but found out last week that the company deploying the computers for the government, Technology Support Center (TSC), planned to wipe the computers' disks and install Windows XP instead. You are using the libertarian defense of bribery, but this is fraud, and thus your arguments have no merit. Mandriva and the government had a contract. Microsoft entered into a contract with a third party to destroy government property. How is it that you don't understand this? It makes no rational sense.

Let me make an analogy. You enter into a contract with a toothpaste company to purchase toothpaste in bulk, but the local dog shit dealer wants you to brush your teeth with dog shit. So he pays your delivery man to squeeze out the tubes of toothpaste and fill them with dog shit. This is legal, moral or ethical HOW, exactly?

--
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton

Re:Brush your teeth with dog shit by RightSaidFred99 · 2007-11-09 05:55 · Score: 1

Dog shit dealer? Did nothing wrong. Toothpaste company is guilty of breach of contract. In the end, none of you have any idea of the details behind any of this, but even in its worst reading the company doing the installs is the guilty party.

Microsoft and Nigeria by Anonymous Coward · 2007-11-09 05:55 · Score: 1, Interesting

Hmm, this whole thing is funny, but let's seriously look at how "business is done" and view this in the light of it.

The there are two reasons that an entity would purchase software for a sizable sum and then later purchase different software to replace it at additional cost are, The software first purchased is fraudulent or unable to perform the function(s) that it was purchased to perform, this one we know is not the case here. Or, the decision maker got bribed, money, stuff, whatever.

Lunches, dinners, floor level tickets to NBA games, luxury boxes at hockey games, Superbowls and Olympic events, tickets that include drinks and food to luxury suites for PGA tournament events, strippers, prostitutes, SWAG, SWAG and more SWAG. How much vendor labeled stuff, provided by the vendors do you have? All of the above I have personally seen or have been informed of by reputable sources (attendees or eyewitnesses), here in the US. So why would it be any different anywhere else? The statement that the "right" people were probably not included in the bribe is probably accurate and we all know it. That is the way the world is, lot's of greedy people who are trying to "get some" for themselves. And legislation has not brought about honesty, just better motivation for hiding dishonesty. My idealism has been corrupted by realism. Get used to it. It's probably not going to change this week.

Cheap!! by PPH · 2007-11-09 06:01 · Score: 1

$400,000. For 17,000 laptops? That's pretty cheap for Microsoft. I don't blame the gov't for throwing them out, trying to bid the price of bribes down like that.

--
Have gnu, will travel.

Complaint with the Washington state AG by tvlinux · 2007-11-09 06:02 · Score: 1

Friday morning at 10:00 pdt, I filed a complaint with the Washington State AG.

***
Microsoft is bribing "Technology Support Center (TSC)" a Nigerian computer company with $400,000.00 to install Windows after TSC already bought an operating system. To get around the word "bribe" they are calling it "marketing activities".
***

It's like hiring a hit-man by spun · 2007-11-09 06:03 · Score: 1

So if I hire someone to break the law, I'm not guilty? Bribery in the form of paying someone to break a contract is one thing, but this is different. This is like hiring a hit-man, or paying someone to burn down a rival's shop. We're talking paying someone to destroy another person's property.

Why do libertarians always parrot back arguments without understanding them? Can't you guys think for yourselves?

--
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton

Re:It's like hiring a hit-man by RightSaidFred99 · 2007-11-09 08:41 · Score: 1

I'm not libertarian per se, though I agree with them on about 70% of the issues. Regardless, you have no ideas of the details of what happened behind the scenes. You just blindly assume some non-decision making company was "bribed" to do something, with no real details in the publicly released information to support this. Maybe one hand of the government agreed to the deal, and another hand didn't know anything about it. Maybe the government agreed behind the scenes, then changed their mind over public outcry for no reason. The heart of the matter is you have absolutely no idea what the real details behind all this is, yet you all keep chanting "bribery" and making all kinds of baseless accusations.
Re:It's like hiring a hit-man by spun · 2007-11-09 09:21 · Score: 1

Yes, yes I do have some idea of the details because I read the article. For instance, I know that TSC is a private company contracted by the government to deliver Classmate PCs with Mandriva Linux on them. I know that Microsoft is negotiating a $400,000 deal with said private company for 'marketing activities' relating to Windows on Classmate PCs. That is all I need to know, really. If Microsoft had negotiated that deal with the Nigerian government, there would be no real moral or legal issue.

So, continuing the hit-man analogy, it is as if I agreed to pay $400,000 to a hit-man for "marketing," on the contingency that you wind up dead. It's not like I'm paying him to kill you, I just said that, if you were dead, there would be a lucrative "marketing" contract. How well do you think that would stand up in court? Legal systems aside, do you find it moral or ethical?

No matter the semantic disguise Microsoft was in negotiations to pay a company to destroy someone else's property. Bribery isn't the issue, nor is fraud. This is about property rights, plain and simple. It's about theft or vandalism by proxy.

I'd love to hear you argue as to why people should be allowed to purchase the services of a thief or vandal.

--
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton

Complaint filed with Washington State AG by tvlinux · 2007-11-09 06:10 · Score: 3, Interesting

Friday morning at 10:00 pdt, I filed a complaint with the Washington State AG.

***
Microsoft is bribing "Technology Support Center (TSC)" a Nigerian computer company with $400,000.00 to install Windows after TSC already bought an operating system. To get around the word "bribe" they are calling it "marketing activities".
***

Re:Complaint filed with Washington State AG by Synic · 2007-11-09 06:12 · Score: 1

How does the Washington state have jurisdiction over actions of an international company in a foreign country?
Re:Complaint filed with Washington State AG by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · 2007-11-09 07:00 · Score: 1

How does the Washington state have jurisdiction over actions of an international company in a foreign country?
Umm, because they're based in and incorporated out of Washington state? In fact the company is a legal construct granted rights by that state.
Re:Complaint filed with Washington State AG by magnwa · 2007-11-09 07:07 · Score: 1

If they didn't bribe a foreign government official, they're not going to be in trouble.

So it's a... Nigerian... scam...? by Anonymous Coward · 2007-11-09 06:15 · Score: 0

Microsoft got their asses handed to them by Nigerian scammers? Wow. I guess they forgot that you shouldn't respond to spam.

This is bull by Anonymous Coward · 2007-11-09 06:19 · Score: 0

This is bull, Microsoft will never do something like this. Are you kidding me?

Re:This is bull by Anonymous Coward · 2007-11-09 11:30 · Score: 0

Even when you're presented with the facts you ignore them for your love of all things Microsoft. The bias is really showing in this news story.

Re:A new low...amazing [MOD PARENT UP] by Phu5ion · 2007-11-09 06:30 · Score: 1

F*cking Awesome.

--
Slashdot is kind of like Playboy; we aren't here to read the articles.

RTFA by shadow_slicer · 2007-11-09 06:38 · Score: 4, Informative

It's not a bribe--there is no individual that is receiving the money. Instead, Microsoft would spend $$ marketing the TCS's classmate PC in Africa (if they choose windows).

Things like this occur in businesses every day in America. This is neither illegal or even shady. As usual the slashdot summary is slightly biased.

Re:RTFA by DMoylan · 2007-11-09 09:49 · Score: 1

wow, they didn't write pay bribe to official x on the check stub. i'm shocked. what was it a consultancy fee?

> Mba-Uzoukwu wrote that Microsoft is still negotiating an agreement that would give TSC US$400,000 (£190,323) for marketing activities around the Classmate PCs when those computers are converted to Windows.

what marketing activities are required for this project. are they trying to convince the kids that windows is best? no. this money will be 'resting' in an account were somebody will have access to it.

Now the CIO sacking makes sense by Anonymous Coward · 2007-11-09 06:53 · Score: 0

"You see, officer: it was the CIO wot did it!"

"And now that we've sacked him, you don't need to investigate any further."

Vista and AIDS? by Mariner28 · 2007-11-09 07:11 · Score: 1

Now some open source zealot is going to read this and claim it's Vista causing AIDS... Or is that a Windows zealot saying Linux causes AIDS...

Great /., I'm so confused!!!

--
"A little misunderstanding? Galileo and the Pope had a little misunderstanding."

bad comparison by mrderm · 2007-11-09 07:14 · Score: 1

Actually, localization of the GNU tools is pretty good compared to some proprietary software projects I've seen.

You sir, are a moral pygmy. by sporkmonger · 2007-11-09 07:30 · Score: 2, Insightful

I wish I could mod Tom Lantos up, insightful. Bribery is wrong, no matter where it's done. Getting ahead financially at the expense of morality does the world no good, and it ought to have repercussions. Engaging in bribery because the country you're doing it in doesn't object just makes you a moral pygmy.

Re:You sir, are a moral pygmy. by BytePusher · 2007-11-09 08:27 · Score: 1

I am a pygmy you insensitive clod! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pygmy Maybe you mean a moral midget instead?
Re:You sir, are a moral pygmy. by Kadin2048 · 2007-11-11 10:40 · Score: 1

Morality isn't universal. (Well, "morality" may be, but any single morality is not.)

What's considered morally right in one place isn't necessarily right in another. What's "bribery" by one person's standards might be a show of respect by another's. In some places and cultures, bribery functions as a sort of 'sliding-scale bureaucratic user's fee' and may not even accompany corruption in a recognizable sense.

Your statement and its accompanying self-righteous indignation ignore that there are models of interpersonal and business relations besides the Western one, and aside from its popularity, there's really no way to say that one is objectively better than any other.

--
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."

mod parent up by hellergood · 2007-11-09 07:34 · Score: 1

Kudos to you, sir.

Dear Sir by Dystopian+Rebel · 2007-11-09 07:50 · Score: 0, Redundant

My name is Mutumbo Mombassa Kwaheri. I live in Nigeria. I have sought you in this matter of great importance because of your obvious honesty and integrity.

I am contacting you because my wealthy, balding and furniture-destroying client has deposited $400,000 in a paper sack on my kitchen counter. He is gone now and my family is quite relieved.

I am most interested in seeing these funds secured in investments in your country. For your assistance, I offer you 25% of the total, or one thousand dollars.

Please contact me in haste before the loud Bwana returns.

--
Rich And Stupid is not so bad as Working For Rich And Stupid.

Re:Dear Sir by shentino · 2007-11-13 07:47 · Score: 1

"I am most interested in seeing these funds secured in investments in your country. For your assistance, I offer you *25% of the total, or one thousand dollars.*" Um, 25% of 400K != 1K Pray tell, have you outsourced your accounting as well as your scamming? You sure picked a hell of a beancounter.

It might not be illegal under US law... by Anonymous Coward · 2007-11-09 07:55 · Score: 0

If a foreign subsidiary (outside of US jurisdiction) did the actual "work". The beauty of being a multinational corporation is that you can always ask one of your foreign offices to do something that you can't do for yourself.

17,000 laptops??? by XO · 2007-11-09 08:06 · Score: 1

17,000 laptops for school children across Nigeria? What do they teach in school, how to email 419 scams?

--
"Champagne for my real friends - and real pain for my sham friends!" http://ericblade.postalboard.com/

Re:17,000 laptops??? by nwanua · 2007-11-09 08:43 · Score: 1

You do realize that the US is the #1 source of scams and spams
http://www.idm.net.au/story.asp?id=8959

US #1 28%
Korea #1 5%
China #3 5%... and so on.

I guess those free laptops to students in states like Vermont turned out to be useful afterall.

Re:Dirty? Sounds like it to me. by Jaywalk · 2007-11-09 08:19 · Score: 1

Mandriva can "imply" that the deal is "legally questionable", but this tells us nearly nothing about the actual legal situation.

Okay, let's stick with what the article does tell us.

A government agency -- the USPF -- had determined that Mandriva Linux was the best choice on the new machines it had purchased.
The government hired a contractor -- TSC -- to install the new machines with Mandriva Linux.
Microsoft's local manager claims that they're cutting a deal with the contractor to pay them (not the government) $400,000 for "marketing" when the machines are converted to Windows. (Umm, marketing? What marketing?)
The contractor begins the process of converting the machines to Windows, dropping Mandriva.
The government finds out and vetoes the deal.

I'm no expert on international law, but I would love to hear how this would not be bribery.

--
===== Murphy's Law is recursive. =====

Rational and Clear Minded by handy_vandal · 2007-11-09 08:28 · Score: 1

This is very rational and clear minded. It also goes against the inflammatory summary. We don't take kindly to your type around here.

Yeah, I noticed. Guess I never should've left the Vulcan Academy ... but how ya gonna keep 'em down on the farm, after they've seen SlashDot?

-kgj

--
-kgj

This one they caught. And the countless others? by Anonymous Coward · 2007-11-09 09:06 · Score: 5, Interesting

Bah. Late to the party, as usual, hope more than 3 people read this. Let me share a story... it's been over 5 years already, so I hope I don't get into trouble for sharing it.

Picture a budding "third world" country, but one a little closer to the south of the border: Guatemala. Also picture a huge, monolithic Gov't institution, the Ministry of Education, where a small, dedicated team has been assigned a major project: switching all of the Ministry's PCs to Linux. This meant not only the PCs in the administrative buildings, but also the computers in every school in the country. Which in reality wasn't that huge of a project, because it's a smallish country, and at the time few schools had PCs for the kids.

Still, it was a very exciting project! We sincereley felt that what we were beginning could have a very positive impact in the lives of Guatemalan kids, exposing them early on to the advantages (and difficulties, too!) of the gospel of Open Source. But we soon ran into trouble. The hardware was hopelessly outdated -- note we didn't have the advantage of Xubuntu and other nice modern end-user distros for legacy HW, plus we met with serious and organized resistance from the many Ministry bureaucrats who decided they weren't going to give up the Microsoft OS they barely knew how to operate.

We soldiered on nonetheless, for a couple more weeks at least. But we could tell a storm was brewing at the higher ranks. Sure enough, the project gets axed, and a head or two rolls. Technical reasons were claimed, but we techs knew very well that the technical hurdles could've been overcome. Rumors abounded, and we all had our own suspicions. My own suspicions were confirmed when I had the chance to talk to a senior management guy who had managed to keep his job, who told me in no uncertain terms that Microsoft was very directly responsible for the project's cancellation, by courting Gov't officials and offering a generous "discount" on the many licenses the Ministry needed to fully comply with the law -- most of the Ministry's Windows PCs were illegal installations in the first place. And also, that palms had indeed been greased -- no proof, of course, but knowing how most (yes, most!) Gov't deals go down here would have been enough for me to believe this, but the confirmation by that bureaucrat left me with no doubt.

Cut to 5 years later. Millions were poured into the "legalization" of thousands of the Ministry's PCs, but the benefits for the average schoolkid remain to be seen. I often wonder what this country's schools would look like today if greed hadn't gotten in the way.. but sadly that's a recurring theme in corrupt countries. MS has a lot to answer for, in my humble opinion.

anon because this is still a very dangerous country

well it figures by Chris+whatever · 2007-11-09 09:12 · Score: 1

We put all nigerian scam in undesirable e-mails,,,at some point the Nigerian gov will start to be angry

IT Job Protection by Anonymous Coward · 2007-11-09 10:01 · Score: 1, Funny

Speaking as someone working in the US IT industry, I'm really... REALLY... happy Nigeria isn't teaching their students to use Windows.

This guarantees that nobody from Nigeria will have any job skills required to enter the world IT market and actually do anything more than install memory chips. They are going to have to work their way up to getting real job skills, and while they spend years doing that, Americans can just get another few years of real world job experience.

It seems like a complete win for the US. Not so good for Nigeria, who's Lunix Kidz will only learn how to use Lunix's SENDMAIL for their bulk email scams. But hey, maybe years of cranking up their OLPC's will give them strong wrists for becoming restaurant bus boys and cab drivers.

Re:IT Job Protection by Bryansix · 2007-11-09 10:12 · Score: 2, Insightful

It seems like a complete win for the US. Not so good for Nigeria, who's Lunix Kidz will only learn how to use Lunix's SENDMAIL for their bulk email scams. But hey, maybe years of cranking up their OLPC's will give them strong wrists for becoming restaurant bus boys and cab drivers.
Translation: My wife works at Microsoft so I will say anything to protect their place in the world.
Re:IT Job Protection by cloakable · 2007-11-09 12:52 · Score: 1

Speaking as someone working in the US IT industry, I'm really... REALLY... happy Nigeria isn't teaching their students to use Windows.

This guarantees that nobody from Nigeria will have any job skills required to enter a shitty minimum wage office job and actually do anything more than type out their resumes before their department downsizes. They are going to have to work their way down to Microsoft Office, and while they spend years doing that, Americans can just get another few years of kissing their bosses ass experience.

It seems like a complete win for the US. Not so good for Nigeria, who's Linux Kids will only learn how to use Linuxs Sendmail/Postfix/Exim for their bulk email scams. But hey, maybe years of cranking up their OLPC's will give them strong skills for becoming competent linux sysadmins.

There, you made some mistakes. I fixed some of them.

--
No tyrant thrives when every subject says no.

A new slashdot meme by Harmonious+Botch · 2007-11-09 14:04 · Score: 1

"Even the Nigerian government knows that it's wrong."

snoyberg personally... by Anonymous Coward · 2007-11-09 14:51 · Score: 0

I'm in second grade, you insensitive clod!

We were discussing GP, not snoyberg.
Thanks for updating us on your CV. Any more interesting items to publish?

Microsoft, You Suck by Anonymous Coward · 2007-11-09 15:10 · Score: 0

LOL - I can't believe Microsoft sucks so much - LOL

DEAR BELOVED by rfc1394 · 2007-11-09 19:45 · Score: 1

I AM MARYAM BARIACHA, WIDOW OF THE LATE SYGOBI BARIACHA. BEFORE HE DIED, MY HUSBAND ARRANGED FOR THE CAPTURE OF 17,000 LINUX DESKTOPS IN MY COUNTRY OF NIGERIA. THEY HAVE BEEN TAKEN HOSTAGE BY MICROSOFT, WHO IS WILLING TO PAY A FEE TOTALLING $17,000,000 TO PREVENT THEM FROM BEING RELEASED. AS A RESIDENT OF NIGERIA, I AM NOT ALLOWED TO COLLECT THIS MONEY, BUT IF AN INDIVIDUAL FROM OUTSIDE OUR COUNTRY STEPS UP, THEY CAN BE THE LEGAL REPRESENTATIVE FOR MY HUSBAND...

--
The lessons of history teach us - if they teach us anything - that nobody learns the lessons that history teaches us.

$400,000 isn't petty cash for Bill by gosand · 2007-11-09 21:06 · Score: 1

Microsoft can get $400,000 out of Bill's petty cash jar.

I remember years ago, when Gates donated something like $2 million to some charity, everyone was oooohing and ahhhing over it. Hell, it might have even been a story on here. There were some heated posts, and I contended that while 2 mil is a lot of money, Bill wasn't being generous. People laughed at me and even got angry, saying "how can you say he isn't generous if he gives away 2 million dollars?"

I did a quick and dirty net-worth calculation. If your net worth was $100,000 and you gave someone $2, it would be more generous (percentage-wise) than Bill giving away $1 million. Think about that for a second. And even just looking at percentage isn't fair, because if I give away 1/2 of 100,000 I only have 50k left. He could easily give away half of his net worth and still live more comfortably than most of the entire country. Hell, he could give away 90% of his net worth and live more comfortably than almost everyone.

So $400,000 ? That isn't even petty cash money - that's dryer money.

--

My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.

uhhm, paying them to act against their contract? by Joseph_Daniel_Zukige · 2007-11-09 21:54 · Score: 1

The government paid the company to bring in machines with Linux. This article clarifies that.

Microsoft paid them to swap the specified software out for their own.

I don't know what bait-and-switch laws Nigeria has, but this is not going to help Microsoft undo the extension of the wrist-slap.

paying someone to disregard their contract? by Joseph_Daniel_Zukige · 2007-11-09 21:58 · Score: 1

It was their contract from the government.

Microsoft applied financial incentives for them to act against their contract, in a move to promote Microsoft.

No individual got paid? What are you sniffing?

Re:South of which border? by rwd2 · 2007-11-10 04:50 · Score: 1

Ok, I know it's pendantic, but this US-centricity is the cause of so much trouble in the world.

Re:OLPC Was (I grew up in the "third world") by ppopper · 2007-11-10 06:14 · Score: 1

I just noticed that nice OLPC project is driven by a Nicholas Negroponte. This is brother of John Negroponte. That's scary, at least to those who've followed the career of this vicious, powerful killer brother.

Re:OLPC Was (I grew up in the "third world") by cesman · 2007-11-10 10:23 · Score: 1

You are being ignorant. So, if one brother does wrong, whatever the other does is automatically suspect?

--
When the source is open, the possibilities are endless.

A victory by codingmasters · 2007-11-10 20:19 · Score: 1

This is a terrific victory for the OLPC Project.

Did Microsoft really try that?! by rice_burners_suck · 2007-11-12 19:15 · Score: 0

Hey Microsoft: Nanny nanny boo boo! Google is a better company than you!!

/me ducks to avoid being hit by chair.

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Nigerian Government Nixes Microsoft's Mandriva Block

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