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Media Research Exec Says Music Industry Is On Its Last Legs

Ponca City, We Love You writes "For years, the major record labels have fought a pitched battle against the MP3 format. Although major labels like EMI and the Universal Music Group have embraced MP3s in recent months, a story from the Mercury News says early returns from those moves indicate they've had little impact on the industry's fortunes — for better or for worse. 'These are ailing businesses on their last legs,' said Eric Garland, chief executive of BigChampagne, a market research company focused on digital media. The question of copy protection on song downloads 'matters a whole lot less to them than it once did.' The industry has a bigger problem. Consumers used to buy CDs for $10 or $15 a pop. Increasingly, they're buying songs at about $1 apiece instead. So, even if transactions continue to increase, the industry is seeing far less money each time consumers buy and it's having a difficult time making up the difference."

401 comments

  1. So long Music Industry... by PollGuy · · Score: 5, Funny

    So long Music Industry, and thanks for all the Phish!

    1. Re:So long Music Industry... by ajs · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The music industry isn't going anywhere. Remember that they're "on their last" $200B leg.... Lots of change is coming, change that should have come long ago. That's the nature of business. The industry isn't going anywhere.

    2. Re:So long Music Industry... by ISoldat53 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The real reason the music industry is dying is because of the crap they have been putting out. Why buy an entire CD when only one track is worth listening to.

    3. Re:So long Music Industry... by vimh42 · · Score: 1

      The "Music Industry" isn't going anywhere. It's simply going to shed some weight, adapt, but it won't die. The old guard will pass away. However, as long as people make music and as long as somebody listens to music, the "industry" will be alive and well. It's just the groups that can give people what they want that will be bringing in the money, or if nothing else, simply have an audience.

    4. Re:So long Music Industry... by rudeboy1 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You know, I thought about it, and it hit me: What would happen if the music industry (at least the Big Guys) collapsed? Well, aside from Best Buy having a lot more floor space, not a whole lot. Big artists would be forced to adopt more modern means of distributing their music, without a giant, bloodsucking middleman. Recording studios would be hit rather hard, but I think that's coming anyway, with the increasing influx of commercial-level products and software that can be bought for next to nothing (comparatively speaking) and produce professional results. The CD would find continuing life in sales at local shows, but would die as a retail product. Touring bands (again, adapting to the modern age) would need to hire their own publicity people to get butts in the seats at local venues, instead of letting the record company do it for them, but would probably be able to afford it, as the record companies normally take the majority of a tour's gross anyway.
          There would be some implosions in the current model that would on the surface appear to negatively impact the artist and consumer. While the artist would spend more promoting on their own, distributing on their own, recording on their own, they would likely be letting go of a static percentage similar or likely less than they do now to industry giants.
          The state of DRM would change, as there would be no more litigation funded by record companies (leaving the MPAA to twist in the wind without a partner in crime) and less funding toward P2P obfuscating and software rootkit technologies. The online download would become the primary medium of the industry, and while I agree there is a need for some copy protection, to prevent widespread distribution, without a monolithic industry behind it, less invasive alternatives may finally see the light of day.
          Personally, I wouldn't say I've been actively boycotting Big Music, but I guess you could say I have been, subconsciously. I haven't bought a CD in probably 10 years. I do support larger artists through iTunes and Amazon's DRM-free initiative. I also spend WAY more time and money on local/touring artists on a face-to-face level. Local artists, I buy tickets to shows, help promote (street team style), buy merchandise when it moves me, and basically just stay active in the scene, cross genre whenever possible. Touring artists, I will buy a ticket to a show, avoiding Ticketmaster at all costs, buying their CDs and merch in person, where they generally get a larger cut of the sales.
          I'm all for the collapse of the industry. It appears to be the only means of innovation, and it will right a lot of wrongs currently out there. Unfortunately, the best way to do this still seems to be choking their sales as much as possible, usually by illegal downloads and bootlegs. I hate to see the artists suffer, but it is definitely causing a positive effect, as more and more artists are breaking away from Big Music to go it alone. Sometimes the best way to change a law is to break it. We shall see.

      --
      Raging in an online forum won't do anything for the world around you. To see change, you must take action.
    5. Re:So long Music Industry... by devjj · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Don't be so sure. When a band can distribute its albums by posting a zip file on a web site, there's a lot less incentive to turn to labels. The industry exists right now because it exists - not because it's necessary. As people start to see how the economics of giant media labels work against them, the tide can turn.

      Entire industries (as we think of them) don't disappear overnight, but they do sometimes disappear, or change into something so different you couldn't really call it the same industry with a straight face. That's where we are. They're a dying breed, whether they know it or not.

    6. Re:So long Music Industry... by jwo7777777 · · Score: 1

      It wouldn't be so bad if the shit they were shitting wasn't the output of dysentery and they didn't insist on using our ears as toilets and making us pay for the privilege.

    7. Re:So long Music Industry... by sm62704 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Recording studios would be hit rather hard

      I think not. There are a few studios here in Springfield (with a population of only 110,000), but none of the bands who record for the majors are using them. Instead it's the major labels' biggest threat who are using them - talented locals who play in bars.

      MP3 is killing the RIAA labels because that's mostly the format the local guys post their songs on the internet in. And those MP3s are selling CDs. Every two indie CDs sold is an RIAA CD that isn't.

      I have quite a few musician friends here, and not a single one of them would sign a contract with the majors and give up copyright to their own music, only to have "creative accounting" eat up any of the tiny royalties they would get.

      The king is dead. Long live the king!

      -mcgrew

      --
      mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
    8. Re:So long Music Industry... by AmaDaden · · Score: 1

      Why buy an entire CD when only one track is worth listening to.
      This is a bit of a tangent but that made me think. The reason is because that model made them the most money. One good song = one short album with good sales. Ok so change the model right? Any new model will have the same kind of 'attack' done on it by the RIAA. So say we Charge by song. Well that's easy to work around, push bands to make a lot of songs. You will get plenty of suckers who will buy all the songs after only hearing one and being disappointed. So that does not really fix the problem. Ok so lets charge by length! Well then lets have them make really long songs. Um....charge by rating? Now THAT could work. However if we do that they are gonna try some NASTY stuff to get the ratings up on the songs. It might be the best option since they try to do that anyway for their cash cows and fail at it for the most part.
    9. Re:So long Music Industry... by bckrispi · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Mod parent up! Record labels exist for two reasons:
      1. To put up the cash for recording.
      2. To package, promote, and distribute the end product.
      With inexpensive, accessible recording software, artists can create a quality product much, much cheaper than they could in the past. Plus, with the Internet, there is really no compelling reason for physical media anymore. Music can be promoted and sold virally, with nearly 100% of the proceeds going directly into the artist's pocket. Compare this with the paltry 2-5% artists would get through the traditional sales model!

      The Record Labels' days are numbered. Their sales model is outdated, inefficient, generally produces an inferior product, and siphons cash away from the artists themselves. They are now nothing more than an expensive middle-man.

      --
      Xenon, where's my money? -Borno
    10. Re:So long Music Industry... by billcopc · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Sure, but a zip file on a web site won't get them beer, coke and groupies. That tip jar won't buy them a new tour van either.

      I hate the record industry with a passion, but even I have to admit that if they go tits up, it will affect a huge swath of the entertainment industry. Who's going to sell out stadiums ? Who's going to book festivals ? Who's going to front the cash for up-and-comers to pay for studio time ? The RIAA bastards are to musicians what banks are to homeowners. They're both dirty cheating skimming enterprises, but they offer regretfully needed services, all because money is the world's #1 problem.

      We techies may well be open to online delivery, but the other 98% of the world is not. That's why Wal-Mart still makes gobs of money and will continue to do so for many years to come. People just aren't psychologically and emotionally ready to grow out of the brick-and-mortar system yet.

      --
      -Billco, Fnarg.com
    11. Re:So long Music Industry... by SSG+Bryan · · Score: 1

      Whereas just a couple of years ago the labels were trying to kill the single. When Men in Black came out, the theme song by Will Smith was #1; but it was ONLY available on the soundtrack. The labels refused to release it as a single.

    12. Re:So long Music Industry... by nine-times · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Whenever people talk about the "collapse" of the record industry, I always want to ask, "Do you honestly think people will stop making music?"

      I wouldn't be surprised if things changed, but things are constantly changing. Ultimately though, people won't stop writing music, playing music, or performing music. The tendency of the human race to make music didn't start with the record industry, and in fact didn't start with musicians being able to get rich off of their talent. The fact is, Homo sapiens are a musical species. You'd have a hard time getting us to stop making music if you tried. If all the governments of the world made music illegal, people would still do it.

    13. Re:So long Music Industry... by rudeboy1 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yes and No. I guess I should qualify that the larger studios would be hit hard. The ones near you are built to cater to exactly the clients you describe. But whereas they are charging ~$100 an hour, the high profile studios charge much more than that. Of course, these are also the kinds of places that the record industry actually pays the studio time for while the artists write the album in the studio!. What a complete waste of money. Also, larger (usually label funded) projects spend MUCH more time in the studio perfecting an album. Most indie projects aim for maybe 40 hours of studio time for an album. Mid level projects maybe 2 or 3 times that much. A-List artists can spend months in the studio, logging thousands of billable hours.
      The point I'm driving at is that the high-end studios that attract all the (current) A-list clients also drive the technological innovation for studio equipment. Mics. Mixers. Sound isolation. Software. Media (as in DAT, etc.). While that innovation wouldn't go away, it wouldn't see the same level of development that these studios enable through Creating A Need, and early adoption of new technologies (because they can afford the latest and greatest).

      --
      Raging in an online forum won't do anything for the world around you. To see change, you must take action.
    14. Re:So long Music Industry... by devjj · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Kind of missing the point, no?

      Think about a music industry where artists don't need labels to get "beer, coke and groupies." Imagine an industry where new channels make it easier for unknown artists to get noticed. It's hard to get noticed right now because you almost can't do it at all without going through labels. Right now, labels are necessary because the system has been architected such that you can't go it without them. That is what stands to change.

      So far as online delivery goes, I think you're flat-out wrong. iTunes accounts for more than 2% of music sales on its own, and in an increasingly "green-friendly" world the concept of digital distribution, which requires no printing presses, no petroleum-based products, etc., is the way forward. That's why I laugh a little every time I think about the BD vs HD-DVD argument. In a few years when DOCSIS 3 is ubiquitous, and fiber is available to many homes, the idea of having to go buy a little round piece of plastic looks increasingly stupid.

    15. Re:So long Music Industry... by apt142 · · Score: 1

      I agree with a lot of this. I think the biggest thing I would predict is that the record companies will change from being the artists' pimps to being the artists' consultant. The shift in music distribution is allowing the artist to have more flexibility and options. I think it'll eventually come to the point where the artists can tell their labels to fuck off with no repercussions because at some point the record companies will need the artists more than the artists need them.

      Now, the recording industry has had it's hands in promotion, sales and distribution for quite some time. When they finally start recognizing what the writing on the wall is saying, they'll likely realize these are really the only assets they have. The artists will come to them or not based on what the label can do for them, not because they are bonded by some blood sucking contract binding them from having any other options.

      And I think in the long term this would be a very good thing. Artists will retain ownership of their recordings. Music will be produced much more efficiently with less middlemen humping the album for every red cent. And artists get to call the shots on how they are put out there.

    16. Re:So long Music Industry... by Stewie241 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      We techies may well be open to online delivery, but the other 98% of the world is not. That's why Wal-Mart still makes gobs of money and will continue to do so for many years to come. People just aren't psychologically and emotionally ready to grow out of the brick-and-mortar system yet.

      Right... because iPod and iTunes sales are only to techies. While I agree that not everybody is ready to give up on CDs, iTunes and P2P have made significant inroads into the way that people get their music. Downloading music is definitely not just for techies.

    17. Re:So long Music Industry... by ubrgeek · · Score: 2, Insightful

      In journalism school, we were taught that no new medium ever eliminated an old one. My teachers didn't like my opinion that they were basing that belief on a limited data set: Their constant example? Newspapers didn't kill radio. But the Internet is doing a pretty good job of doing so.

      The reality seems to be that new media will replace old formats if you consider it in just such a manner - Formats change, content doesn't. Paper replaced papyrus, telephone replaced telegraphs (I know, I know, not really the same, but still ...) text printed on paper is being "replaced" by things like nytimes.com

      We're at the point where one doesn't need to know how to "rip" a CD in order to get the songs in a more useful format. One can simply download a digital version of the song (set asside DRM considerations.)

      The music industry as such will never go away. Why? Because right now, it's just not possible for a band to get a major concert together, get billboards in every city for their new album and get their faces on a happy meal all by itself. So it needs the music industry to do that stuff. In the future, the "music industry" might just morph into a specialized PR industry, where they take the product the artists produces entirely by themselves and then market the heck out of it. No CD sales, no mandatory 10-record deal, etc. Just "You get us the music, we'll get you the ad space."

      --
      Bark less. Wag more.
    18. Re:So long Music Industry... by kernelphr34k · · Score: 0

      So a "Media research exec" says that the music industry is on its last legs? I don't think so, but rather all the companies and corps that make there penny off artists whom are 3rd parties are on there last legs. If every person down the line is not making there %, then things will soon fail. The money belongs in the artists, song writers hands. They created the song, the lyrics. I just find it funny that all these companies trying to make there buck off each song and artist while the artists aren't in it for the money but for the joy and there love of music. Music will be around forever. It's human to love it and embrace it

    19. Re:So long Music Industry... by devjj · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Does the industry really need billboards in every city? I'm talking about a grassroots, fundamental reformulating of the industry as a whole. It makes no sense that a shitty, commercially-architected pop group can gross $10m on a single album while truly talented artists can't even get off the ground. We need to go back to square one, focus on the music, and let the industry reinvent itself from there. The music, and the artist(s) that produce it.

    20. Re:So long Music Industry... by billcopc · · Score: 1

      iTunes sales are hardly any better than CDs, from a business perspective, because the money still goes to the wrong pockets. Indie outfits like Magnatune are better, but they're several orders of magnitude smaller than iTunes.

      The day Magnatune (or any other artist-centric site) beats iTunes, then we'll talk.

      --
      -Billco, Fnarg.com
    21. Re:So long Music Industry... by quanticle · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The state of DRM would change, as there would be no more litigation funded by record companies (leaving the MPAA to twist in the wind without a partner in crime) and less funding toward P2P obfuscating and software rootkit technologies.

      Not necessarily. The RIAA was litigating independently long before the MPAA joined it. Remember, the MPAA's original attitude towards downloading was that it was only an issue for the music industry, since movies were too large to download, given the asynchronous nature of most users' internet connections. Then Bittorrent came along, and forced the movie industry to rethink that basic assumption. Given that the MPAA is an industry organization of similar clout and power compared to the RIAA, it could potentially continue litigation long after the RIAA was knocked out.

      --
      We all know what to do, but we don't know how to get re-elected once we have done it
    22. Re:So long Music Industry... by JasterBobaMereel · · Score: 0, Redundant

      The record industry does not equal music

      It's more likely that the current record industry will morph into artist promoters (they do this anyway) so they will handle the booking, advertising, promotion etc .. but not actually do any distribution, that will be handled by iTunes et al ...

      Meanwhile the smaller independent artists will continue to bypass them since they don't need them ...

      --
      Puteulanus fenestra mortis
    23. Re:So long Music Industry... by alan_dershowitz · · Score: 1

      We've got a couple of studios here in Iowa that pretty much service only local bands. If anything, the collapse of the record industry would HELP them by removing the political impediments to getting local bands' CDs in stores.

    24. Re:So long Music Industry... by Thaelon · · Score: 1
      Interesting, but you've got one thing wrong.

      the record companies normally take the majority of a tour's gross anyway.
      I'm fairly certain that record companies get NOTHING from touring. It's actually the biggest source of a band's income, not the CDs. The labels get the most from the CD, ticketmaster gets a big cut from the tours, but that's still where the band makes their money.
      --

      Question everything

    25. Re:So long Music Industry... by jbuda123 · · Score: 1

      When a band can distribute its albums by posting a zip file on a web site, there's a lot less incentive to turn to labels.

      I used to think it was the musicians that made the money and it was the record companies that took their share. But now I'm pretty sure it's the other way around. Most music is almost entirely indistiguishable from each other. Big bands become big because good marketing makes people think it's better than the rest of the crap. Or said another way - there are a million people who can play music at a high level and they would all do most anything to become rich and famous. This puts them in the same bargaining position as, say, a McDonald's employee. When there are more people willing and capable of doing what you do than others are willing to pay for, you're never going to get rich.

      If you want proof, think of this - how many super rich Indie artists are there? Now, how many super rich artists are there who are represented by major labels? Who is creating value for whom?

      For me as a music consumer, I think it would be great to get the music direct from the artist. But to think that the artists will somehow come out better without record companies seems to be unsupported by the evidence.

    26. Re:So long Music Industry... by Stewie241 · · Score: 1

      Of course I agree with you... but that is not what I was trying to say... parent was saying that people aren't ready to buy music online - they would much rather purchase CDs at Walmart... I offered iTunes as a evidence that people ARE ready to buy online.

      On a tangent... we don't need more iTunes clones in the open source world. We need a device independent, and vendor independent music purchasing system - open source iTunes, basically, so that Indie bands can sell their music online, accessed from software that will automatically manage their music library, manage their devices, etc...

      Yes... this is complicated, because there are many different devices and ways of doing things, but we the OS world can define the standard, the uprising will be powerful.

    27. Re:So long Music Industry... by nine-times · · Score: 1

      The record industry does not equal music

      That was largely my point. Advocates of the record industry tend to want to scare us by implying that, if their industry implodes, we won't have music anymore. But in fact, these two things are pretty separate. So if the record industry falls apart, I'm not sure I care very much.

    28. Re:So long Music Industry... by rucs_hack · · Score: 1

      Why buy an entire CD when only one track is worth listening to.

      Back when I used to buy LP's I stopped getting single artist albums, and went for the compilations. OK, less 'cool', but usually better value.

      I haven't bought an album for years, well, six years, maybe seven. It's no particular thing, just there hasn't been any way to differentiate the worthwhile artists from the never ending stream of, for want of a better word, drivel. There are a few I like, but bands are shuffled through the machine so fast it's hard to get a grip on whether or not I'll like them long term.

    29. Re:So long Music Industry... by Espressoman · · Score: 1

      I completely agree. Gone are the days of monopolizing what people buy and hear, fake ratings, and astonishingly low standards. It's got little to do with piracy. Rather their entire portfolio has gone from completely dominating the market to disappearing into a blip of quaint obscurity against to the vast universe of music available on the Internet. Their attitude towards their customers hasn't helped them either, but that's what you get when you allow assholes to run the show instead of the artists. Hopefully soon that blip will vanish completely, and the cynical shit-peddlers can go make their millions somewhere else.

    30. Re:So long Music Industry... by Gilmoure · · Score: 1

      And that track was recorded in 1975.

      --
      I drank what? -- Socrates
    31. Re:So long Music Industry... by Robocoastie · · Score: 1

      Good point. Perhaps the so called "musicians" will have to work for their money now by doing concerts more. Gotta love how they've even re-labeled the singers who are actually just lip-syncers like Disney singer stars - "performing artists" with emphasis on "performing" cuz they are really just acting up there.

    32. Re:So long Music Industry... by yakmans_dad · · Score: 1

      The real reason the music industry is dying is because of the crap they have been putting out. Why buy an entire CD when only one track is worth listening to.

      One track? I've never consciously listened to a single song by Garth Brooks. How can someone be the #1 or #2 best selling music artist and not have his music simply fill the air around you? I know he's country, chunky, and wears a big hat. That's music? I've never bought an Elvis record, but I know what his music sounds like. You'd have to be deaf not to know lots of Beatle's music. But songs since, oh, 1980? Who cares? Who sings [modern artist] songs in the shower? Do people "rap" to themselves?

      So, now, as they say, get off my lawn.

    33. Re:So long Music Industry... by knorthern+knight · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Disclaimer; this is my very rarely updated blog. Here's a piece I did a while ago on this phenomenon. Start with the obvious, no piece of music is going to satisfy everybody. You can take any successful song, and 90% of people will hate it... but it'll be *A DIFFERENT 90% FOR EACH RECORD*. The only way to successfully cater to this situation is "the single", which allows people to buy songs they like, without getting a dozen pieces of crap bundled in. The heyday of the music industry was the 60's and 70's, when the 45 was king. When the single was killed by the CD, the music industry started its long decline.

      Oh yeah, while you're at it *KNOCK OFF THE F'ing LOUDNESS AND COMPRESSION*.

      --

      I'm not repeating myself
      I'm an X window user; I'm an ex-Windows user
    34. Re:So long Music Industry... by fbjon · · Score: 1

      How much innovation is there to be had in physical studio technology these days, really?

      --
      True confidence comes not from realising you are as good as your peers, but that your peers are as bad as you are.
    35. Re:So long Music Industry... by servoled · · Score: 1

      Have you listened to the rest of the CD or is that one track the only one you've heard played on the radio?

      --
      "I have a porkchop, you have a porkchop. I have a veal, you have a veal".
    36. Re:So long Music Industry... by superwiz · · Score: 1

      Depends on what you mean by the "industry". Does music need it? No. Hell no. Do the labels need it? Absolutely. How else would you know what's "mainstream"? Wait until "digg it"-type system emerges for independent music. Then people's taste will drive music and not the other way around.

      --
      Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
    37. Re:So long Music Industry... by bcat24 · · Score: 1

      I agree. I won't believe the music industry is really dying until Netcraft confirms it.

    38. Re:So long Music Industry... by SSG+Bryan · · Score: 1

      But iTunes and the other digital stores suck because the selection is so damned limited.

      I listen to rock & roll & I have a more extensive collection of music than the iTunes store because they only carry what is currently in print.

      What I haven't figured out is why doesn't the labels REALLY roll out their whole damned catalog to digital distribution. There is a lot of music I would like to buy, but I can't get because it is either out of print or it isn't available in the US.

    39. Re:So long Music Industry... by clodney · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It makes no sense that a shitty, commercially-architected pop group can gross $10m on a single album while truly talented artists can't even get off the ground

      I see statements like that all the time, and I just shake my head in disbelief. The reason that comercially-architected pop groups succeed is simple - more people like them and are willing to pay for their music than that of the "truly talented artists". Deal with it.

      We see this all the time, in different areas. Windows outsells Mac OS, and both are more widely used than Linux. More people watched "Transformers" than will ever see "No Country for Old Men", regardless of how many film critics rave about it. More people will read Harry Potter books than will read "War and Peace", despite English Lit being a required course in most (U.S.) schools.

      You can't force people to like something against their will, and ridiculing their taste will just piss them off.

    40. Re:So long Music Industry... by rudeboy1 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      A lot. You'd be amazed at what is done with computers in the studio. Rackmount components can do all sorts of nifty things that were unheard of 10 years ago. There is a component you can buy that will automatically correct pitch in real time. If you think Ashley Simpson is really hitting those complicated jazzy glissandos on the CD, well...
      There is always innovation to be had in music recording. I'm sure that when reel to reel recording first came about, someone like you thought that was all there was to it. Then came multitrack recording. Then came digital recording. Then came computerized recording, all done straight to a hard drive. The manufacturers of studio equipment are constantly coming up with awesome stuff and amazing new technology in every new iteration of their product. Automated faders (try to imagine what it would be like to try and mix 128 individual tracks at the same time by hand) used to be obscenely expensive, but are now industry standard, thanks to early adopters who brought the technology to a point where it could be mass produced. I don;t know what is going to be next, but I can tell you there is PLENTY of room for innovation. Better mics. New kinds of interfaces, ways around historically complex processes (analog patching is a giant pain in the ass). Plenty of stuff.

      --
      Raging in an online forum won't do anything for the world around you. To see change, you must take action.
    41. Re:So long Music Industry... by devjj · · Score: 1

      Good point, although I have to think that the commercially-produced crap is liked more because decades of social conditioning have made it that way, and less because the music is actually enjoyable. Don't take this as a criticism of "pop" in general; I'm referring specifically to "groups" like the Backstreet Boys, etc.

    42. Re:So long Music Industry... by fbjon · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yes, I know of pitch correction and those things as I use them myself. But I contend that the recording industry (as in monopolistic industry) is not needed for them to be developed. Studios -who need the large and sophisticated digital mixers and assorted hardware- won't go down with the RIAA, and neither will artists, and they both want all the new-fangled sound-mangling widgets, so there is still a market for them.

      --
      True confidence comes not from realising you are as good as your peers, but that your peers are as bad as you are.
    43. Re:So long Music Industry... by endemoniada · · Score: 1

      It's called advertising, and it affects people more than you think. Take any kid, say around 10 years old. What is he/she going to listen to? Why, the latest publicly advertised artist, of course! They don't even know anything else, since they're too young to have formed a lasting taste in music, and they don't have any real experience with other kinds of music than that which they are being force fed by the record industry.
      It's the same thing in adults, only less forceful and obvious. We obviously won't like a band we've never even heard, and the only music that gets played publicly is the industry-promoted crap.

      Of course, some people like the "diet" kind of music, the cheap techno/rap/dance crap that gets spewed out by music factories all over the place. But I honestly think they are the minority. If the smaller scene got as much exposure as todays pop music, I'm sure a lot of people would flock around that as well. Actually, that's already happening!

      A lot of smaller bands got free exposure on sites like Myspace, and grew to be big pop sensations. They weren't manufactured by the labels, they weren't backed up by millions of dollars in promotion. They went big because people got a chance to hear them, know them and ultimately like them.

      It's hard to get any clear facts out of this, but this is what I believe. I really don't think people WANT to be spoon-fed pop music, but that's the only think they'll know. Until the revolution.

      --
      Blog -
    44. Re:So long Music Industry... by Dahamma · · Score: 1

      To package, promote, and distribute the end product

      Don't underestimate this. Packaging and promoting the "artist" is probably a bigger job for the labels than promoting their music.

      Just think - without these big labels, all of the amazing manufactured acts like NSync, The Vilage People, and The Spice Girls would never have existed!

      Wait a second... damn you, evil record labels!!

    45. Re:So long Music Industry... by zotz · · Score: 1

      Free the Art
      Copyright drew Roberts, 2007
      Creative Commons BY-SA 3.0 US

      Free the Art and
      Free the Artists
      Let's break loose and
      Let's get started

      Change the world and
      Make it better
      There may be crying but
      We'll cry together

      Tired of waiting on
      Promised changes
      Come together and
      Let's rearrange it

      drew
      http://dangernovel.blogspot.com/
      Danger - A Safe Bahamian Novel

      --
      FreeMusicPush If you want to see more Free Music made, listen to Free
    46. Re:So long Music Industry... by bugs2squash · · Score: 1

      A friend of mine played records at a night club. He would pride himself in playing music that people wanted to hear but could not buy unless they hunted down the record at a collectors fair or yard sale. It's crazy in this day and age, here I am willing to pay top dollar for the music I want to hear and there's no-where to buy it. I may have non-mainstream musical tastes, but I know that the music I want to hear is locked up in some record company's vault and they won't take my money. I'd even buy the whole album since in many cases I want to hear more of that artist.

      --
      Nullius in verba
    47. Re:So long Music Industry... by tknn · · Score: 1

      Middlemen generally exist in markets where they can provide particular expertise, distribution, production or other economies of scale. While labels certainly have a specialty in promotion (albeit to the detriment of taste perhaps), the other reasons for their existence are no longer relevant.

      Frankly the market will evolve to "tastemakers" being the promoters. Just look at Pitchfork's ironclad grip on the "indie" music scene. Basically Pitchfork gives an album a 9 and everyone goes out and downloads it. The labels may exist in a diminished form to continue to pay off radio stations and try and dictate what sells, but they aren't really needed.

    48. Re:So long Music Industry... by iluvcapra · · Score: 1

      When a band can distribute its albums by posting a zip file on a web site, there's a lot less incentive to turn to labels.

      Great, they can put their song into people's ears. In terms of what the recording industry does, that just leaves:

      • Getting the song placed in motion pictures, television, and other media
      • Publishing the song, allowing the writers to collect royalties from covers, remixes and samples
      • Packaging and selling physical media for those of us who demand it (like, say, me)
      • Promoting the song so that items 1-4 actually happen, thus driving demand for live performances
      • Making money, thus making the job of "professional recording artist" an actual proposition

      Now to be fair, a lot of these can be handled by a good agent and a good manager, and as we see, many of the recording labels are reforming themselves as agents and management companies. Thus the new revenue comes from licensing and live performances, instead of CDs.

      --
      Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
    49. Re:So long Music Industry... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Mod parent up! Record labels exist for two reasons:

            1. To put up the cash for recording.
            2. To package, promote, and distribute the end product."


      3) Provide funding to sue its customers.

    50. Re:So long Music Industry... by devjj · · Score: 1

      I'll play devil's advocate for a moment, and address your points individually:

      1. Labels ensure that the only top-tier, signed artists get play in each of the mediums you've mentioned. They serve to keep the little guy out.
      2. This is the area most in flux. "Publishing" can mean many things, and there's no reason that copyright law couldn't be simplified to make collecting royalties something much more manageable
      3. Physical media is dying. You're just going to have to deal with that. It makes absolutely no sense to continue distributing music on CDs when it's possible to distribute bit-perfect copies at a lower cost over the web.
      4. Again, labels are the reason why giant budgets are required to promote songs. They serve to reinforce the status quo, which means Joe Anotherguitarplayer can't compete.
      5. See #2.

      I agree with your points about having a good manager, etc.

    51. Re:So long Music Industry... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For what it is worth - think about any typical album put out by any big-name band from the 1960s. Probably only one or two songs made it to the top 10 for radio airplay, and probably no more than four songs made it to the 40.

      The phenomenon of only having one good song on an album is not a new one. It's hard to make good music - and no one has a recipe that always work. That's what makes the truly great bands, truly great. But for most bands, one smash hit on an album is considered "doing pretty well."

    52. Re:So long Music Industry... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course, these are also the kinds of places that the record industry actually pays the studio time for while the artists write the album in the studio!. What a complete waste of money. Also, larger (usually label funded) projects spend MUCH more time in the studio perfecting an album. Most indie projects aim for maybe 40 hours of studio time for an album. Mid level projects maybe 2 or 3 times that much. A-List artists can spend months in the studio, logging thousands of billable hours.
      It is a colossal waste! It also goes a long, long way toward explaining the quality of the resulting product -- the absolute crap that they're churning out by the ton and hype-ing to the hilt because that's the only way it'll ever sell.
    53. Re:So long Music Industry... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Perhaps the so called "musicians" will have to work for their money now by doing concerts more."

      And that would be a problem. All you would see is a sound engineers pushing buttons for all the synthesized music while the singer records dub-overs.

    54. Re:So long Music Industry... by iluvcapra · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Labels ensure that the only top-tier, signed artists get play in each of the mediums you've mentioned. They serve to keep the little guy out.

      If a film or television director hears your song and wants it, he's going to get it. The real problem is that very few big movies are directed by people that wanna get new, edgy, or slightly-less-than-commercial music from untried acts. The call to the music supervisor is generally "Get me something that's by a hot band to put over the snowboarding scene," the actual band, performer, or subject is really secondary to the commercial aspect. Only occasionally do you hear "Get me band x's song y".

      This is the area most in flux. "Publishing" can mean many things, and there's no reason that copyright law couldn't be simplified to make collecting royalties something much more manageable

      I agree, but this reform had better happen soon if people distributing on the Internet want ay protection at all.

      Physical media is dying. You're just going to have to deal with that. It makes absolutely no sense to continue distributing music on CDs when it's possible to distribute bit-perfect copies at a lower cost over the web.

      Eh, I'm not alone. I guess we'll just have to see, but for just tracks of audio, you're right. It's left to see if the recording industry won't start offering more value for the physical media than they do now, like lyrics embedded as a standard, easier ripping, videos, promo materials... huh, you're right, it's dead.

      Again, labels are the reason why giant budgets are required to promote songs. They serve to reinforce the status quo, which means Joe Anotherguitarplayer can't compete.

      Well, you can't make musician A disappear from the Earth by heavily promoting musician B. Again the real problem is that people don't always have strong feelings about particular songs or artists, but just wanna hear music, any music, maybe restricted to a genre but that's it.

      And, well, guess what, if you want 100 million people to hear the hook to your song or even read the name of your band, that's going to cost you millions of dollars in media buys, sorry. The average music listener doesn't spend an hour a day on band home pages looking for good music. There's this whole line of work called "A&R" with professionals to do that for them. You may not like what they come up with, so you're welcome to start your own music website, too.

      See #2.

      In flux, yes, but a big fact remains that if you create music that only exists as a recording, i.e. you don't have a live act, it's going to be very difficult for you to make a living doing your art. The thing left unstated in these debates oftentimes is that the people advocating more freedom really don't care if they only do their music as a hobby. I myself am certain quality would suffer under such a regime, but again this remains to be seen.

      --
      Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
    55. Re:So long Music Industry... by AmaDaden · · Score: 2, Insightful
      I fully agree with your reasoning of why the RIAA does what it does.

      You can take any successful song, and 90% of people will hate it... but it'll be *A DIFFERENT 90% FOR EACH RECORD*. The only way to successfully cater to this situation is "the single", which allows people to buy songs they like, without getting a dozen pieces of crap bundled in
      I see your point but I feel it needs a bit of refinement on this issue. Most people can fit neatly in to a genre that they like. The rest are "into a bit of everything" and (I'm very sorry to say) don't really matter much right now. These are the people who really know music and look in to new bands and songs. The fact that you know about the loudness war at all makes me think you are one of them. The problem is that instead of hearing what people like you think of songs the average Joe gets what he knows from the radio. It's a system designed to trick people in to thinking that there are only 10 bands in the whole world. So they go out and buy the crappy CDs based on the one song that they hear over and over again on the way to work.
      Selling songs individually helps a lot but the average Joe will sill just buy the whole fucking album because iTunes will offer a discount on buying it all at once, they don't know any better, and (most importantly) they want to have more then one song to listen to. So just moving over to the pay per song model is not enough to improve music. The average Joe needs a way to buy good music with confidence and with out spending a ton of time and money looking in to new bands. I think that forcing a rating system in to the mix would work. Hence my end suggestion. In retrospect the price does not need to be rating based but a rating system MUST be included somehow so that good music sells better.
    56. Re:So long Music Industry... by devjj · · Score: 1

      Well said. I'd mod you up if I had the points.

    57. Re:So long Music Industry... by sm62704 · · Score: 1

      Now if we can get rid of the RIAA and Clear Channel we'll be rid of the impediment to getting local guys on the air.

      --
      mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
    58. Re:So long Music Industry... by dedalus2000 · · Score: 1

      how many super rich Indie artists are there? Now, how many super rich artists are there who are represented by major labels?


      the answer to both questions is very few. though there are a surprisingly high number of artists who are Inde for economic reasons. with the label they ultimately pay for promotion of their album out of their small percentage of album sales there is also a non trivial amount of faulty accounting.
      --
      My keyboads not woking popely.
    59. Re:So long Music Industry... by ImpShial · · Score: 1

      Sure, but a zip file on a web site won't get them beer, coke and groupies. That tip jar won't buy them a new tour van either.


      Actually, I think this is the most important point of this entire discussion, and the main point of his comments. Listen to the commercials on your local radio stations. How often do you hear announcments of concerts and tours that are months in advance.

      Do you think EVERY individual artist/group has the skills or industry contacts to market themselves and set up a huge, multi-million dollar tour? Groups rely on the brick & mortars to handle this ridiculously complicated aspect of being a popular artist.

      No, the industry won't go away, but it may morph into more of a marketing industry than it already is. I see labels, that currently rely on signing artists, changing the paradigm and being hired by artists or groups to market them for a percentage of the concert/tour proceeds.

      --
      I gave up religion for Lent.
    60. Re:So long Music Industry... by ImpShial · · Score: 1
      If all we had were truly talented artists, who only made truly good and artistic music, who would my 11 year-old daughter and all of her friends have to scream and swoon over? There's a market for the pre-fabbed boy bands and girl groups. Their tunes are crap, but they're the stick-in-your-head type of music. Practically commercial jingle-level swill.


      Buy hey! That's capitalism at it's best, baby!

      --
      I gave up religion for Lent.
    61. Re:So long Music Industry... by spazLizard · · Score: 1

      Do people "rap" to themselves?
      Yeah, the Chinese intern after hours when the managers have gone home (in Chinese) :)

    62. Re:So long Music Industry... by norminator · · Score: 1

      Also... is he aware that Wal-Mart has its own online music store? Even my mother-in-law knows about that one, and she's about as non-techy as they get.

    63. Re:So long Music Industry... by killproc · · Score: 3, Interesting


      I'd like to add, as a musician who has home studio, that there is one benefit that you get from a "pro" studio.

      The Engineer.

      Some of these guys are freaking geniuses. There is definitely an art to recording, as much as there is in playing an instrument or belching out that killer vocal.

      I've spent enough time in "pro" studios to know that my engineering skills are tiny compared to some of the guys I've seen (or should I say heard...). My mixes are usually good enough for a demo and/or working out all of the parts for a song, but there is something about having a professional set of audiophile ears and talented mixing fingers work on your project.

      --
      When you die, on your deathbed, you will receive total consciousness. So I got that goin' for me, which is nice.
    64. Re:So long Music Industry... by Some_Llama · · Score: 1

      "Their constant example? Newspapers didn't kill radio. But the Internet is doing a pretty good job of doing so."

      Actually the internet is the one thing i believe will honestly make every other form of media distribution obsolete. Let me use the news for example.

        i haven't read a newspaper or watched the local news in 2-3 years.. but every time someone asks me "did you hear on the news/read in the newspaper X" I have already read about it online.. and not just the story.. opposing viewpoints, can research the history via wikipedia or other means, or contribute my own viewpoint to the discussion.

      When i have had occasion to watch the news (my wife still does), the stories they report are always 3-4 days after i have already heard about them, and i know more about the story so I can see the bias they interject into the "reporting".

      Why use the news to get traffic reports when i can go online and use realtime viewable maps from 511.org, i can see my route, alternate routes, traffic speeds, etc.. with the news they give me a very narrow dump of info that i can hardly ever use.

      Of course, when it comes to music, i can borrow any song from any person and sample what i like, THEN buy (singles or the occasional CD), i can also find history of bands, lyrics, discographies, touring shcedules, etc... I will continue to do so no matter what the labels might like to call me.. i buy music when i want to keep a copy for myself and have no moral qualms about downloading, trying, then buying or deleting the file.

      i can't think of any current information/entertainment distribution model currently available that even holds a candle to the internet and what can be gleaned from it, it also aqllows the information that IS gleaned to be double checked and unfiltered.

      Now that i have it, i can't imagine life without it.. the most ubiquitous free flow of information ever available in all of history?

    65. Re:So long Music Industry... by Plaid+Phantom · · Score: 2, Funny

      You don't *really* want that old music. You want to get this new fifty dollar Britney Spears box set. You want to go home and rethink your life.

      Labels really aren't concerned with what you actually want. They want to tell you what to want and then make you buy it through a system geared toward the label instead of the artist.

      --
      All comments are properties and trademarks of the voices in my head. Not like I'm gonna claim them.
    66. Re:So long Music Industry... by Lord+Phaeton · · Score: 1

      The big four record labels have less market value than you might think. EMI, which just went private, is worth around $4 billion, and Warner Music around $1 billion. Sony BMG is is a joint venture and so it's more difficult to value, but $5-6 billion is a good estimate. Universal, the largest of the big four, is worth between $8 and $12 billion based on various estimates. In sum the four companies account for only around $20 billion in market cap. For comparison, Apple is 8 times that large.

    67. Re:So long Music Industry... by j79zlr · · Score: 1

      More people will read Harry Potter books than will read "War and Peace", despite English Lit being a required course in most (U.S.) schools.
      Tolstoy was English?
      --
      I'm not not licking toads.
    68. Re:So long Music Industry... by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 1

      and in an increasingly "green-friendly" world the concept of digital distribution, which requires no printing presses, no petroleum-based products, etc., is the way forward.

      I couldn't care less about the "greenness" of digital vs. physical distribution. I care a whole lot about the idea of wanting to hear an album and having on my computer 5 minutes later. That's what clinches the deal for me, and I suspect for most people.

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    69. Re:So long Music Industry... by devjj · · Score: 1

      Granted, but it's just another reason why digital distribution is such a good idea. It makes business sense.

    70. Re:So long Music Industry... by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 1

      Oh, definitely. What I meant is that you don't have to appeal to mankind's nobler senses to sell digital. "Here's your order,cheap and now" wins out over loftier ideals every time, and it's a happy coincidence here that digital distribution meets all of those goals.

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    71. Re:So long Music Industry... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good points, but one bit that is not covered by tech is promotion. The industry used to be in the bed with radio, MTV, and others to promote tunes, along with all the payola scams, to generate mass market big pop stars, and easier recording/distribution channels do not cover this bit. Do kids listen to music on the radio these days? Probably not, since it seems it's been a while since a new mega bands (i.e. in league with Beatles, Michael Jackson, Nirvana, Radiohead, Britney Spears and co.) appeared.

      Yep, I'm an old foggie now.

    72. Re:So long Music Industry... by Sonnekki · · Score: 1

      This is my theory of how the next 50ish years will play out:

      Due to the lack of good music being produced, single artists will get together and become well known, more or less on their own due to live performances and self-promotion and also due to their actual talent.

      What I'm pointing out is the progression of music from the early 1900s to the 1950s, when the appreciation of music was legitimate and talent was REQUIRED to earn respect. Hype did not exist AS MUCH AS IT DOES NOW (there's always hype or else humans don't find it interesting or something). This is same progression is going to happen in the future, when the (mostly) pure (forced) crap that is being released now isn't enough to satisfy.

      This legitimate appreciation will continue until the hype, once again, will arise; something that large corporations can exploit; hence RIAA 2.0 .

      However I could be totally wrong...This is actually a dream I have (minus the RIAA 2.0 part).

    73. Re:So long Music Industry... by alphamugwump · · Score: 1

      No, you missed the point. His point was that the industry would fundamentally change to a web-based distribution and advertising model. The whole point of touring is advertising anyway. In the world the GP envisions, there would be no need to tour, because we'd all have VR goggles.

    74. Re:So long Music Industry... by billcopc · · Score: 1

      That is why your private mp3 collection will always dwarf online stores. Just don't tell the RIAA.

      What is your first instinct when you want to find an old favorite ? Do you hop on iTunes or is it Limewire ? For me, it's Limewire (or whatever P2P app is in fashion). P2P is notorious for finding those obscure titles, and let's be honest: yesterday's cheese is still better than today's cheese. If the labels would clue in and start selling those old junkers, I'd be a whole lot happier with a high-quality store-bought version than the tinny one some file sharer recorded off the radio.

      The thing is, the music industry is purely obsessed with control. It's not even about money anymore, it's about power. Kiss my ass, suck my dick, buy my artist, and fuck you if you don't like it. That's all that matters to them.

      --
      -Billco, Fnarg.com
    75. Re:So long Music Industry... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We techies may well be open to online delivery, but the other 98% of the world is not.

      "This year, 22 percent of all music sold in the US will move through iTunes. "If iTunes gets up to 40 or 50 percent, they'll have too much power for anyone else to enter the business," says James McQuivey, who analyzes the digital music industry for Forrester Research.

      http://macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/15629/

    76. Re:So long Music Industry... by dangitman · · Score: 1

      Don't be so sure. When a band can distribute its albums by posting a zip file on a web site, there's a lot less incentive to turn to labels

      Then that would *be* the music industry. It doesn't mean it doesn't exist anymore just because it takes on a different form. "Industry" simply means "any general business activity; commercial enterprise" - so it doesn't have to be centralized or large to be an industry.

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
    77. Re:So long Music Industry... by Chryana · · Score: 1

      The reason that comercially-architected pop groups succeed is simple - more people like them and are willing to pay for their music than that of the "truly talented artists".


      With that kind of logic, McDonalds must be the best restaurant in the world. Seriously. The reason more people listen to pop groups is not that they like them more - it's simply because most people don't really have any musical taste. Or the movies they watch. They just listen to the movies and the music their friends listen to. Most people don't care about music or movies, they care about those around them and how these people perceive them. Ask these people to talk about their preferred artists or movies, and see how long the discussion will go. Some of the artists you praise would be completely replaceable by another person without anyone noticing, if it's wasn't for the huge clout from millions of dollars poured into advertising their image and making them known.
    78. Re:So long Music Industry... by Evil+Kerek · · Score: 1

      Excellent post! To sum it up in one sentence: The best doesn't always win.

    79. Re:So long Music Industry... by ThatsNotPudding · · Score: 1

      "You know, I thought about it, and it hit me: What would happen if the music industry (at least the Big Guys) collapsed?"
      A lot less oil would be used to create CDs and their plastic cases. How many tons of unsellable CD/DVDs do Wal-Mart/Target/Best Buy, et al have to dispose of every year? Plus, I'm not even sure if CD/DVD's can be made from recycled materials.
    80. Re:So long Music Industry... by MacWiz · · Score: 1

      Remember that they're "on their last" $200B leg...

      $200B??

      Have you looked at these guys' financial statements? At the wholesale level (which is the gross income of the labels) the US record biz was only worth about $7 billion last year, if that. You have to go back almost 20 years to find sales as low as they were last year. And this year has been worse.

      If the record labels pooled all their assets (without counting the pile of money that Sony makes from selling electronics -- just the music division), they wouldn't have $200B between them.

      Lots of change is coming, change that should have come long ago.

      Like 360 contracts? Did you happen to see the Doug Morris interview at Wired? The guy runs the largest record company in the world. Thinks dealing with the Internet and digital is "like if you were suddenly asked to operate on your dog to remove his kidney."

      EMI has new owners who are looking around and can't understand what the hell EMI has been doing because the books are a nightmare that shows what's really been going on all these years. And the rest of the label owners "have nothing to add" when trying to figure out where to go from here.

      EMI is reported to be strongly considering not funding things like the RIAA, IFPI, BPI and the rest of the acronyms. But EMI is the smallest of the Big Four.

      And they can change all they want to but it's going to be a long road back due to their (all the majors, not just EMI) attitude toward music fans (not to be confused with consumers). Bronfman's recent attempt at saying the war with consumers was "inadvertent" just ain't gonna fly. It was no accident.

      Everything else aside, it doesn't matter how much they change if their taste in music remains the same. There are grown-ups out here, too. We'd like to hear some music for a change. Instead, we're left praying that Led Zeppelin actually does a new record and they sell it outside the major label system so we can buy it with a good conscience.

    81. Re:So long Music Industry... by MacWiz · · Score: 1

      I'm fairly certain that record companies get NOTHING from touring.

      They're working on that. The new "360-degree" deal gives them 30% of tour income. The common 15 percent royalty on CD sales goes up to 30 percent.

      This means the record company gains a cut of tour money (It's actually the biggest source of a band's income) and the artists get twice the nothing they currently get from record sales.

    82. Re:So long Music Industry... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      3 - To create STARS. Who else knows how to do that?
      4 - To act as a filter. They aren't nearly as much of a filter as radio, the press and now the individual consumer are.

  2. Recruit Better Talent by N8F8 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    They need to do a better job of recruitment. On any given night I can find better bands playing at local clubs then I hear on the radio. How about they all chip in to recreate a free classic MTVesque station to market directly?

    --
    "God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon, Marshal of France - speaking truth to power
    1. Re:Recruit Better Talent by RingDev · · Score: 3, Funny

      You need better radio stations.

      -Rick

      --
      "Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
    2. Re:Recruit Better Talent by ByOhTek · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Aye... I can only think of two modern artist that's released a CD that I like all but (at most) two songs in the past decade.

      I look at older stuff; Don Henley, The Eagles, Chicago, Billy Joel, earlier Metallica, etc, etc, when in any given decade from between the 60s and 90s where I can easily find multiple artists with multiple CDs fitting that criteria.

      The problem isn't the new formats; the problem is the quality of the groups that are out now.

      A good set of experiments to verify this

      Survey people with 1-5 albums that have come out each year from 10 years before the person was born, until he/she turnes 50 (obviously younger people won't have as many). Say the top 5 albums, and 5 random albums

      List the albums and the tracks. Have the individuals pick which songs (assuming they weren't available) the users would pay $1 to download.

      Correlate data to two charts
      (1) %of songs people would buy vs. year
      (2) %of songs people would buy vs. year relative to birth

      That would be an interesting experiment, you could use data from chart 2 to help normalize the "it was popular when I was younger and more influential" bias.

      Anyone know if anything like this has been done?

      --
      Self proclaimed typo king, and inventor of the bear destroying coffee table (patent not pending).
    3. Re:Recruit Better Talent by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 1

      I agree-- even Blue October has one or two songs per CD that I could pass on after hearing once.

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    4. Re:Recruit Better Talent by N8F8 · · Score: 1

      Good point. Even better, lower the entry boundary for new stations to the floor just as the web has done for print media.

      --
      "God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon, Marshal of France - speaking truth to power
    5. Re:Recruit Better Talent by rudeboy1 · · Score: 5, Informative

      True. I have yet to understand why ClearChannel can get away with almost a complete monopoly of the radio business. I bet you if you looked up every major radio station in your area, (assuming you live in the US) you will find that the vast majority of them are run by this one company. They have openly admitted they play a very strictly regulated playlist on their stations, driven by sales, not by listener demand, or the search for new music. They are generally limited to a very small list of songs as well, both as a means of "playing it safe", playing only songs they think everyone wants to listen to (thereby not taking risks on new music) and as a means of keeping their royalty fees down. It's a sad state of affairs, but unless you have satellite radio, you're stuck with pretty bland choices.

      --
      Raging in an online forum won't do anything for the world around you. To see change, you must take action.
    6. Re:Recruit Better Talent by SSG+Bryan · · Score: 1

      The reason why is Media consolidation Laws courtesy of the Republican Party during the Saint Reagan era.

    7. Re:Recruit Better Talent by Z00L00K · · Score: 1
      And not only that - there is a problem that the amount of music that's available to the consumers is so large that it's impossible for ordinary shops to stock correctly. The overhead of unsold CD:s will eat up the profit that the few large selling items give.

      More and more music is produced while the old music still is available. The pricing of the CD:s is also a problem. It's so easy to buy 10 CD:s when they cost $5 each, but when they cost $20 each you buy one or maybe two. The internet download of music would have happened regardless of Napster, Gnutella etc. Just an accident waiting to happen.

      And - depending on where you are living there are sometimes radio stations that actually provide good music, large variation or different music from time to time too. SR is one example. (Site in Swedish. OK maybe /.:ed now :-)). There are also a lot of internet radios that can provide music for about every taste. Unfortunately the music industry is unable to understand that the music played on radio (internet or wireless) is actually more promotional than a sales loss. If you want quality sound you don't record from the radio unless you actually can't afford buying the music anyway.

      One of the advantages with the internet is that it allows the artists to get a much shorter channel to the customers compared to the now old and tired way of going by CD:s. The normal situation today is that when you find a CD shop you go in and look around and find a lot of the music you don't want or already have, but not much of the music you want. And if you ask you will be told that they can order it if you REALLY want it. So the next thing is to go home and download the tracks from some site where they are already available.

      Naked, blasted and pissed off...

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    8. Re:Recruit Better Talent by vtcodger · · Score: 1
      ***They need to do a better job of recruitment. On any given night I can find better bands playing at local clubs then I hear on the radio.***

      That's the problem of course. When they published hundreds of songs from talented song writers and musicians in the 1950s and 1960s and 1970s, the music industry did fine. Now that they don't, they are in trouble. When was the last time you turned on the radio and heard a new song with meaningful insights into the human condition, or a song making fun of politicians (Between Reagan, Clinton and Bush II there has surely been material enough to last for centuries), or even a little story like "Love Potion Number Nine" that was and is fun to listen to occasionally? Been a while. Decades in fact. No damn wonder the industry is in trouble. They don't have a product. Bound to affect sales sooner or later.

      I don't buy many CDs. But it is not because of downloading. It's because there is nothing much worth buying. I think I'm far from alone.

      --
      You can't see ANYTHING from a car, You've got to get out of the goddamned contraption and walk...Edward Abbey
    9. Re:Recruit Better Talent by bobjr94 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Thats because the radio and labels is scared of change. They want to make sure there bands are putting out what sold last time and keep repeating that forever. You read / hear all the time about bands saying they had some songs they really wanted to get on an album but the label didnt think it was a good idea at this time. Thats why satellite radio has millions of subscribers. The system has been totally backwards for 20 years, with the labels owning the bands and making them only put out what sounds like the same thing as they hear on the top 40 now. Top 40 has been the same mix of 70% rap / r&b and 30% light mushy rock for about 15 years now. There are alot of people who dont like rap / r&b and never will but thats all thats out there. The music industry is going though a self correction, in people can go find they music they actually like, get it right from the artist and listen to in there car, ipod, or where ever. The labels make the bands like slave labors and force them to pay big money back to the label. Most typical top 40 bands may be forced to spend 5000 - 20,000$ per day of studio recording (of the labels choice), they may charge them 50-150,000$ to mix there album and by the time there done they spend 200-300,000$ to get an album out. There are many small bands who record & mix there albums for under $1000. Most people wouldnt notice any difference. Many music schools have studios for rent very cheap, some bigger clubs have back room studios for recording and there always "your buddies house with the studio in the garage.

    10. Re:Recruit Better Talent by sm62704 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Twenty years ago you NEEDED a nmajor label to "cut a record". Today you don't, and only the least talented are willing to give up copyright to their own songs to sign with a major label.

      --
      mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
    11. Re:Recruit Better Talent by nine-times · · Score: 1

      They need to do a better job of recruitment. On any given night I can find better bands playing at local clubs then I hear on the radio

      But what I find really strange about the whole thing is that, when I go back to my hometown and listen to the radio, all the stations are playing 90% old stuff. I don't listen to the radio anymore (I don't drive), but I remember being in high school and when I turned to the lock rock stations, there was a lot of new music on. They'd play older stuff too, inter-splicing some classic rock songs, but the majority of the songs were from the prior 5 years. Now I go back and listen to the same radio stations, and 10 years later, most of the songs that they're playing are the same songs they played 10-15 years ago. Every once in a while you hear a new song, but mostly not.

      So what the hell happened?

    12. Re:Recruit Better Talent by RingDev · · Score: 1

      We have WJJO 94.1 FM in Madison, WI. It's not perfect, but it is a hell of a lot better than most rock stations.

      In fall 2001, when clear channel published the "These songs are not fit for broadcast after 9/11" list. The guys at WJJO went down the list and played every song of the appropriate genre (rock/metal) on it.

      They recently dropped their local evening shows though which featured local artists and new song/bands/b-sides competitions, and local on scene coverage as a way to bring in a few new songs to the play list every week. In it's place they picked up that crap pile with Lee Brutus 'Hard Drive XL'. That thing just reeks of spoon fed commercialism.

      The only thing Clear Channel has going for it out here is WMAD the Mic 92.1 FM. It's talk radio that broadcasts Jones Network and Air America. Both have a heavy dose of left wing bias, but it's refreshing to hear the news from a different point of view.

      -Rick

      --
      "Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
    13. Re:Recruit Better Talent by ByOhTek · · Score: 1

      can you cut a deal and reach a wide audience without a major label these days?

      It seems if it isn't a major label, you get one store chain, local to your city, or maybe if you are lucky, state.

      --
      Self proclaimed typo king, and inventor of the bear destroying coffee table (patent not pending).
    14. Re:Recruit Better Talent by flitty · · Score: 1

      Anyone know if anything like this has been done?
      It has, and I'll be damned if I can't find it. IIRC, ~80% of people listen to the music they grew up listening to, and after about age 25-30, the majority of people hardly buy new bands and rely on the "classics". So yes, someone has done studies, and no, I don't have the links.
      --
      Whether or not there is some sort of god, I'm not supposed to say/god is a word and the argument ends there-Smog
    15. Re:Recruit Better Talent by the_fat_kid · · Score: 1

      Dude, come on. JJO? they blow as much as every other station.
      Having Johny "Danger" as a DJ doesn't make you good.
      remember when he worked on the top 40 station? Z104 ring any bells? how about when he locked himself in the broadcast booth and played "take this job and shove it" over and over again? Yeah he's cool, and a rebel.

      seriously they have not 1 but 2 stations in the Fox River Valley (2 hours north) that play the EXACT same play list. One wasn't enough.

      Try WORT(89.9) or WSUM(91.7) if you want non-corp radio in Madison.

      --
      -- Sig under construction...
    16. Re:Recruit Better Talent by barzok · · Score: 1

      I have yet to understand why ClearChannel can get away with almost a complete monopoly of the radio business.
      While claiming that other players are attempting to make "unfair" monopolistic moves. It's pretty funny to watch.

      ClearChannel and the rest of the of the NAB are still up in arms and fighting against the XM/Sirius merger, claiming it's a monopoly and anti-competitive for all radio broadcast (terrestrial included).

      Yet ClearChannel eats up every station & every market they can get their hands on.
    17. Re:Recruit Better Talent by Americano · · Score: 1

      I'll second this -- and I can't provide links either. I do remember reading an article about this study, and that most peoples' musical tastes were more or less "fixed" by the time they were 25 - 30 years old, with very little "new stuff" making it into their playlists.

      Anecdotally, having just turned 32, it seems that the iPod is also helping this phenomenon a bit. The "most often played" playlist gets a lot of use for me -- I've got hundreds of songs that I know I love ready to play in an instant... why go look for new stuff that I may not like? I find myself relying on my ipod & my sirius receiver almost exclusively for any listening I do... I honestly can't recall the last time I turned on an FM station in the Boston area and really found anything that excited me.

    18. Re:Recruit Better Talent by ByOhTek · · Score: 1

      That only counts for the normalization factor of the experiment, and not the experiment itself.

      What is the % acceptance of songs for a given year, normalized to age?

      Ex:
      This kind of statistic (numbers made up for example purpose: ...
      1981: 50% {ages 1-10}, 65% {ages 11-20} ...
      1991: 45% {ages 1-10}, 50% {ages 11-20} ...
      2001: 35% {ages 1-10}, 45% {ages 11-20} ...

      except, I'm thinking of an experiment from 1960-2007, and age clusters of -19 to -10, -9 to 0, 1 to 10, 11 to 20, 21 to 30, 31 to 40, 41 to 50 (where there exists people of that age range for the year)

      --
      Self proclaimed typo king, and inventor of the bear destroying coffee table (patent not pending).
    19. Re:Recruit Better Talent by smellsofbikes · · Score: 1

      >I have yet to understand why ClearChannel can get away with almost a complete monopoly of the radio business.

      Because most people change their tastes to match those of the group in which they find themselves, and radios coopt that behavior by playing the same crap over and over. People assume that other people must like it, and pretty soon, they, too, like it. It's the basis of social behavior: if you see other people eating a certain plant, you know it's safe so you eat it too. Media takes advantage of this by presenting themselves as the voice of the people, and people assume that what the media says is what most people think.
      People who don't behave this way are, in a word, anti-social. I don't think there's anything wrong with that (speaking as one of those people) but it's not the way most people work.

      --
      Nostalgia's not what it used to be.
    20. Re:Recruit Better Talent by domatic · · Score: 2, Insightful

      They've screwed themselves by over controlling things from the studio clear out to the Radio Station. Frank Zappa did a pretty good job of predicting this state of affairs in his (open admitted to be ghostwritten) late eighties autobiography. I won't quote it word for word but it went something like this:

      In the fifties and sixties, it was mostly young people with funny hair playing the music and old crusty businessmen who owned the clubs and record labels. These crusty old men didn't seem to understand the music itself but they could see what "the kids" were buying. Since they weren't in the least hip, it wasn't all that hard to get them to try marketing some slightly avant garde or even outright experimental music. After all, you could luck out and be on the ground floor of the next big thing.

      At some point, someone got the big idea "Why don't we get some of these young kids to scout out the talent and pick what to promote. They 'get it' because they have the same hair......" Once that happened, what was currently cool just seemed to last forever because everybody started imitating everyone else. They made sure kids "with the same hair" were in the radio stations, vetting acts for the clubs, and deciding who would get signed. Once this process was complete, there was less room to try new things. You had to sound like whoever was currently "big".

      Fast forward a few years and this process of fed-back self-imitation was made even worse with payola to the radio stations. Once upon a time, local radio stations would throw some local guys or just some funky record from these new guys in L.A. on the turntable to see if people liked it. Not now. The music industry fell into the same trap the movie industry fell into: They'll only market what "know" will sell. The only things that they "know" will sell is what has been sold already. Everything just collapses into tapioca with no room for innovation whatsover. Even those occasional new tunes you hear don't stand out in any way.

      The Internet self-distributing independents have really been taking off lately because that is where there is still room to try something different. It isn't always wonderful but at least the bits that are good aren't strangled in the crib by some studio marketing flack.

    21. Re:Recruit Better Talent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cheap plug. Try KEXP.org. Best station on the planet.

    22. Re:Recruit Better Talent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem isn't the new formats; the problem is the quality of the groups that are out now. ... Survey people with 1-5 albums that have come out each year ... Say the top 5 albums, and 5 random albums It's pretty obvious that the most popular albums nowadays suck even more than before. The industry is even more dysfunctional than before so it is harder to find the good music, but it's out there. It just takes much longer to discover most of the good music than to have it pushed at your with advertising. IOW, ten years from now you'll hear about all this good music from this time and say 'why not now'.

      There are plenty of groups in the last decade where all the songs on an album are great works -- like Etro Anime or Imogen Heap just for instance.
    23. Re:Recruit Better Talent by Myopic · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Who the hell listens to radio? Anybody? Come on, speak up. I haven't listened to radio for a decade, and before that I only listened because I didn't know any better, because I was a child.

      iPods have delivered us from the slavery to radio. For a very small price you can listen to what you want, when you want, skip what you want, and all without commercials. Only a fool would continue wasting his time listening to radio.

      And you are correct, ClearChannel is absolutely to blame for that. Radio sucks because ClearChannel *is* radio and ClearChannel sucks. Don't buy inferior products; don't listen to radio.

    24. Re:Recruit Better Talent by kevmatic · · Score: 1

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_songs_deemed_inappropriate_by_Clear_Channel_following_the_September_11%2C_2001_attacks

      Read the List; there are MANY songs that are VERY Popular. Pittsburgh's WDVE is very much a ClearChannel Station, but they frequently play many stations in that list. (Stairway to Heaven? Dust in the Wind? Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da? Killer Queen? WTF?) Its only a guideline, and WDVE threw it out a long time ago.

      Still, there are plenty of other stations around that aren't clearchannel (In fact, most of them, I'm finding out looking them up, are owned by other companies). I don't really consider them a monopoly.

    25. Re:Recruit Better Talent by Myopic · · Score: 1

      I proffer that the reason you haven't heard any good modern music is that you haven't been exposed to good modern music. Trust me, there is plenty of great music being made today, and a lot of it is published by the big music shops (and a lot of it isn't).

      The reason you don't remember all the crappy music made "back in your day" is that you've forgotten it. You only remember the good music, thank God.

      PS The Eagles? You are going to use the Eagles as an example of great music? Bro...

    26. Re:Recruit Better Talent by ByOhTek · · Score: 1

      I never said there wasn't bad music in the earlier times, I just said it wasn't as hard to find good music, and most importantly to this topic, CDs that had more than 2-3 good songs on them. Your argument doesn't really counter my point.

      Just because there is bad music in a timeframe, doesn't mean there isn't also good music, it just seems that you don't hear much from the really good groups these days (there are some, but very few groups are consistant).

      Even digging through some oddball places (like the local indie scene *shudder*), I don't seem to find much modern stuff with quality.

      --
      Self proclaimed typo king, and inventor of the bear destroying coffee table (patent not pending).
    27. Re:Recruit Better Talent by ByOhTek · · Score: 1

      You really didn't counter my point, agreeing with the GP that the major lables aren't signing up good groups these days.

      I didn't have to search hard to find good music in the early 80s, 2/3s to 3/4s of what I heard on the radio, I liked. Even now I can turn on a 'top hits' of the 60s and 70s style station, and find good stuff in higher prevalance than I can now. Some times in the 90s the major stations seemed to start playing less and less good stuff in the new groups. Some of it is moving to styles that just aren't what I like (hip-hop/dance), which I won't discredit them for, but even in the rock/alternative section, very few groups seem to draw me any more (voice quality in a lot of current singers is just horrible IMO, lyrics tend to vary).

      --
      Self proclaimed typo king, and inventor of the bear destroying coffee table (patent not pending).
    28. Re:Recruit Better Talent by RingDev · · Score: 1

      I'm pretty sure it was "I'm too sexy" by Right Said Fred that he played over and over for a few hours. I think it was "Take this job and shove it" that he was shouting drunkenly when the station manager (wasn't it Berry Alveras back then?) came to talk to him through the barricaded door. Not that Danger is the highlight of the station any more. Sean use to be the man until Hawk knocked him off the drive time slot. And the old night time line up rocked before the HD XL crap came on.

      After WMAD reformatted to liberal talk radio, the old WMAD rock guys put up a new station that had a great morning line up. It was Quinn in the morning and he kicked ass. Unfortunately, Brad, the station manager suck balls drove the station into the ground in short order :(

      If you think WJJO is nothing special, head out of Wisconsin for a while. There is a whole nation of really, really crappy rock stations. While in central/south central Wisconsin we have a number of decent options.

      I used to work at WORT. I did bitch work for 'Luke the Prince of Darkness' and the 'Tuesday Morning Aneurysm'. We hung out with Matty Mo on Monday nights, and after I got out of the military and had been in the Goth/Industrial/Synthpop scene in DC I was much more interested in Ryan Park's show earlier in the evening. If you can follow their schedule, it is a great channel for a variety of music tastes, and there are a lot of good local story and liberal news programs.

      WSUM is college radio. And like most college radio, it is a crap shoot. Sure, every once and a while the sun shines on that dog's shit caked asshole, but for the most part, it's not worth tuning in to.

      -Rick

      --
      "Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
    29. Re:Recruit Better Talent by RingDev · · Score: 1

      I do. I have an MP3 player. It sits on my desk in my office. I used to listen to it quite a bit, but at this point I have every one of the songs memorized, so I only flip it on once a week or so.

      Radio does 2 things your iPod cant:

      1) It introduces the human element by having a human DJ to introduce songs, announce events, and what not. Such things could be tied into iPod software, but it is still lacking the human aspect. The unknown of what will come next.

      2) It introduces new music of the Genre for you. Sure, using iTunes/Amazon or what ever your cup of tea is, you can go find similar music that you might like. But the radio does this work for you, AND it doesn't cost a dime to do.

      Don't get me wrong, I think the iPod is a great device. But it isn't the radio. Maybe if you could combine Shout cast, and a local even coordinator with a decent quality text-to-speech engine... But all you'd wind up with is a quasi-off line version of an automated radio station.

      Come to think of it... that might not be such a bad idea. Plug your iPod in at night and have it download music you might like and a local events calendar. Use a TTS engine to announce upcoming events and band/song names. Store the music in low quality (ie: Radio) MP3's. Put the whole thing on Shuffle...

      Anyone know if it's patented yet? This would be totally do-able on my PDA. It would be a bit more challenging on an iPod, but I bet with a really solid business plan one could convince Apple of it's market-ability...

      -Rick

      --
      "Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
    30. Re:Recruit Better Talent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Satellite is no better. Though there are at least two stations that will cater to your tastes, they still only play the same two dozen songs day in and day out. It's pretty pathetic, if you ask me.

      I'm not paying however much it is per month to listen to the same shit over and over again, and mediocre shit at that. (Sirius punk and metal channels, I'm looking at you.)

    31. Re:Recruit Better Talent by rudeboy1 · · Score: 1

      3 words, my new music discussion friend: Pandora dot com.

      --
      Raging in an online forum won't do anything for the world around you. To see change, you must take action.
    32. Re:Recruit Better Talent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You really didn't counter my point, agreeing with the GP that the major lables aren't signing up good groups these days. ... I didn't have to search hard to find good music in the early 80s, 2/3s to 3/4s of what I heard on the radio, I liked. You said "the problem is the quality of the groups that are out now," which is bs. The lots of high-quality groups are out there, signed to a label and distributed, but are not played on the radio. If what you meant to say is that good groups are not played on the radio anymore then you should have said that.

      Just because you can't turn on the radio and have 'good' music spoon-fed to you doesn't mean it isn't out there anymore.
    33. Re:Recruit Better Talent by the_fat_kid · · Score: 1

      you are right, it was "I'm too sexy" that's MUCH better

      I feel for you having put in your time at WORT. I like to listen, but I'd stab Sybil if I had to work around her. I'm still mad at her for killing the Dead programing.
      WSUM is college radio. A large percentage of what they play blows chunks. It's still better that corp. radio IMHO.
      Yes, radio out side of Wisconsin is bad. No doubt. Most radio inside of Wisconsin is just as bad. WJJO is no exception.
        And Sean, I wasn't going to bring up "The Man Of Steel". I never liked him. I lost what ever respect I might have had for him after a night of listening to him insult listeners on the air. When one of them used "the N word" on the phone to him, he broke down and cried. Like a baby. On the air. Out loud. Very Rock and Metal.
        It was wrong, crappy, and childish of the caller, but he is a grown man (of steel might I add). If that is the first time he has been insulted, or the first time he has been called that, he has some growing up to do.

      I respect you point of view, I just don't feel that WJJO is the model that radio stations should be judged by.

      --
      -- Sig under construction...
    34. Re:Recruit Better Talent by rudeboy1 · · Score: 1

      You could be right. I'm not a regular satellite subscriber, but I thought maybe the medium was heading in the right direction when I rented a car last month with built-in Xm, and got to hear some honest to god Descendants on the radio...

      --
      Raging in an online forum won't do anything for the world around you. To see change, you must take action.
    35. Re:Recruit Better Talent by sm62704 · · Score: 1

      What is the motivation for reaching a wide audience? MONEY. Ever read "Courtney does the math?" Did you know that for every major label band that makes it big, there are a hundred you never hear of?

      As for "a wide audience", these days a lot of bands reach "a wide audience" without the majors. My friends from The Station are onc such band; they play from Colorado to Ohio, and have been on the same stages as (and with) some of your RIAA guys.

      --
      mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
    36. Re:Recruit Better Talent by ByOhTek · · Score: 1

      Sorry, short of having a library with a good selection of music, there is not reliable and cost effective way to find music you like other than the radio, or breaking a few laws, at least in this country.

      You could say "friends", but then the friends would have to have heard it, and that's where the "reliable" part comes in.

      --
      Self proclaimed typo king, and inventor of the bear destroying coffee table (patent not pending).
    37. Re:Recruit Better Talent by Myopic · · Score: 1

      There are services like the one you request. One I am familiar with is IndieFeed Podcast. They have one podcast per genre, and one episode per song. That means you can listen to a certain genre (I have Alternative, Blues, and Hip Hop, but there are also others) and you can also skip a song when you don't like it. The DJs introduce the songs, tell you about the artists, and where to find more by them. I've discovered a handful of new artists that way, and have heard lots of okay songs along the way. (The DJs' talking is not valuable to me, but it sounds like what you're looking for.)

      That's just one I know of, I'm sure there are others. In fact I have heard of one called Just Good Music... uh... and I guess I can't think of any others. I don't know of any that are localized by geography, but that is a good idea, and there might be something like that for wherever you live (not where I live though).

    38. Re:Recruit Better Talent by bondjamesbond · · Score: 0

      I listen to XM satellite radio. Not great, but heads above FM.

    39. Re:Recruit Better Talent by NeoTerra · · Score: 1

      Actually, from where I live, you would have to go over 100 miles to get to a ClearChannel radio station. I think I may be able to pick up 1 from where I work. Most of the stuff here is an employee owned communications company.

    40. Re:Recruit Better Talent by Myopic · · Score: 1

      Is it true that's commercial free? I mean, like REALLY commercial free?

    41. Re:Recruit Better Talent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      so, so true. I moved from omaha a few years ago and certainly don't regret it, but the one thing I miss is 89.7 the river. I spent most of my adult life there and didn't realize what it is like in a city without a local radio station. Now I know and I hate it.

    42. Re:Recruit Better Talent by RingDev · · Score: 1

      Nice. It seems a lot like Shout Cast except with music theory acting as the link instead of the social rating system. Defiantly getting tagged!

      -Rick

      --
      "Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
    43. Re:Recruit Better Talent by bondjamesbond · · Score: 0

      Except for their advertising themselves, yes. Every now and then they'll feature an artist who has an album (for lack of a better word) coming out, but he'll do live songs in addition to talking about the album.

    44. Re:Recruit Better Talent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you need to broaden your horizons to different record labels and genres; I've bought dozens of CDs in the last ten years that are every bit as strong as the classic rock I grew up on.

  3. And here is me... by Jaysyn · · Score: 5, Funny

    ...playing the world smallest violin.

    --
    There is a war going on for your mind.
    1. Re:And here is me... by Hanners1979 · · Score: 4, Funny

      If that doesn't get the RIAA knocking on your door, I don't know what will...

    2. Re:And here is me... by Dr.+Eggman · · Score: 4, Funny

      Sir, I have been authorized by the RIAA to halt this unauthorized and illegal reproduction of copyrighted silence.

      --
      Demented But Determined.
    3. Re:And here is me... by Red+Flayer · · Score: 1

      Meh. Philip Glass never sold his soul to the RIAA...

      Do you have his express written permission for that silence?

      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    4. Re:And here is me... by s.bots · · Score: 2, Informative

      I think you mean John Cage (for the silence part, no idea if his soul is now property of the RIAA)

      4'33": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4%E2%80%B233%E2%80%B3

    5. Re:And here is me... by Red+Flayer · · Score: 1

      Yup, sorry. Though Glass is well known for using silence in his compositions.

      And, of course, he does compose movie scores that are distributed by RIAA labels.

      Damn it, I was wrong on just about everything in my post. Sigh.

      Time to get more coffee.

      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    6. Re:And here is me... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's always time to get more coffee.

    7. Re:And here is me... by Null537 · · Score: 1

      But...but officer! It was only 4:32 long!

  4. death of the industry or of the album? by spyrochaete · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Seems to me TFA predicts the end of the album as we know it, not necessarily the music industry. Could we be entering the golden age of the one hit wonder?

    1. Re:death of the industry or of the album? by GodfatherofSoul · · Score: 5, Funny

      You, Sir, were not alive in the 80s.

      --
      I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
    2. Re:death of the industry or of the album? by moderatorrater · · Score: 2

      I would imagine just the opposite. It takes a lot of money to get those artists signed onto a label and then touring. If you have a group/singer/whatever that can only sing one good song, they're not going to have the touring ability that a great group with more depth will have. The one hit wonder made a lot of money because people bought it for 10x the price. Now that people can buy albums in whole or in part, they can choose to pay more money for albums with multiple good singles on it.

    3. Re:death of the industry or of the album? by explosivejared · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I think that it means the end of the arbitrarily compilation of an album. With digital dissemination artists can release music as they create it, and receive support as they create music. An artist no longer has to rely on marketing a compilation every year or so. The album dominated market is artificial scarcity. It tries to create a market where that is the only music you are told to expect from an artist for a long time. It simply doesn't happen like that. I know sometimes it helps to release songs together as they sometimes compliment each other. By and large however, albums are just another way to generate revenue for the distributor and not the artist. So I say good riddance to the album. Really, half the time albums are about 80% fluff just to pad the track numbers in order justify the price.

      --
      I got a catholic block.
    4. Re:death of the industry or of the album? by Scrameustache · · Score: 1

      Seems to me TFA predicts the end of the album as we know it, not necessarily the music industry. Could we be entering the golden age of the one hit wonder? The album format only became relevant in the late 60's, thanks to the Beatles and other groups who'd make more than radio-ready bits.
      The bands back then had to fight the labels to get them to release albums, and now the pendulum has swung back.
      Some albums are worth it for the experience, some are just a good song or two with lots of filler.
      The trouble is, the excecs that insist on shoehorning their "product" into one category or the other, according to their belief of what is profitable.

      Kill them all, let Clapton sort 'em out.
      --

      You can't take the sky from me...

    5. Re:death of the industry or of the album? by flitty · · Score: 1

      Just look at T-Pain and his success selling ringtones instead of singles and being a "ringtone artist". I love full albums, and will search for "complete" albums (such as Muse's Black Holes and Revelations, which is the most recent "album" I've seen), but I think we are just returning to a couple of years like that of the 45 single. It's not going to kill the industry, but they will have to complely restructure to survive. They will, and those who don't will explode and start new companies that can adapt.

      --
      Whether or not there is some sort of god, I'm not supposed to say/god is a word and the argument ends there-Smog
    6. Re:death of the industry or of the album? by spyrochaete · · Score: 5, Funny

      I was going to dial 867-5309 to ask for a witty retort but instead I ran - I ran so far away.

    7. Re:death of the industry or of the album? by Jason+Levine · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I'm not too current with my History of Albums Worldwide knowledge, but isn't the album a relatively recent occurance? Weren't songs previously released as they were finished? If so, this might be just the death of the (relatively) short-lived album concept.

      As a side bonus, since they won't have recording industry execs telling them "If you're gonna have a hit, you gotta make it fit" and cutting the song down to 3:05. We might see more songs five or more minutes in length. Of course, this might lead to some really bad 5 minute songs, but it might also lead to some brilliant 8 minute songs that would otherwise have been sliced and diced into an awful 3 minute version.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    8. Re:death of the industry or of the album? by UncleGizmo · · Score: 1

      I believe we already have. This is my opinion, but how many popular albums have come out recently whose songs are a cohesive part of a whole? Nowadays it seems like every song on a popular artist's album is geared to be a potential single, rather than part of a whole collection. I'm talking major releases that are for the radio, not indies.

      --
      Who put this thing together? Me, that's who.
    9. Re:death of the industry or of the album? by MrAndrews · · Score: 1

      But releasing only singles every few months/weeks means the entire marketing engine for the music industry has got to change too... making 7 or 8 mini-campaigns every 45 days (rather than 1 big one every year) might make the labels be even MORE stingy about who they bother promoting, because I'm guessing a lot of the costs don't disappear after the 1st iteration. So in exchange for the death of the album, we might be getting the death of top-level diversity.

      On the other hand, that sounds more like a proper Long Tail scenario (tiny fraction of super-hits and a large bulk of lesser hits), which gives one hope that the playing field will be a bit less tilted in favour of the big players.

    10. Re:death of the industry or of the album? by SSG+Bryan · · Score: 1

      Damn, love the flock of seagulls reference!

      And me with no mod points.....

    11. Re:death of the industry or of the album? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      I beg to differ.

      My band is expecting our album to be ready sometime in early spring. During the recording session this past summer, the topic of song order came around. Now, our album overall, is intended to tell a story, or more eloquently, a plea to the masses to wake up. The intent of the album is to have it behave like that of Pink Floyd's 'Dark Side of the Moon'. Each song links into the next, as if your are listening to a seamless audio session, or one continuous track. That, combined with production dynamics, i.e. balance fades, echo effects, and the like, the idea is to create something of a kickback to the original IDEA of a album to be listened to. Not just heard. The lyrical content also tells of a story or plan, and is ordered like that of a doctrine or declaration.

      Though it was fairly easy for us to come up with the songs and content, we didn't really realize how meticulous it all was when we put it together in this fashion. Once it is available for release, I will gladly announce it to the masses of slashdot. Till then, any recordings we have really don't do justice to music.

      * No we do not think it will sell like Pink Floyd's DSOTM. We do hope that people will recognize and appreciate the creativity that lay within and support us for those efforts.
      ** Yes, I'm tooting my horn, but since I'm AC, that doesn't matter, does it?

    12. Re:death of the industry or of the album? by rudeboy1 · · Score: 4, Funny

      I was at a White Wedding, watching a Stray Cat Strut, when I said Come On Eileen, but she was doing the Safety Dance, so I decided to wear My Sunglasses At Night. What can you do? Girls Just Want To Have Fun. Your only option is to Whip It and tell yourself It's Hip To Be Square. //sorry. Couldn't help myself.

      --
      Raging in an online forum won't do anything for the world around you. To see change, you must take action.
    13. Re:death of the industry or of the album? by TheWizardTim · · Score: 1

      I still haven't found what I'm looking for.

    14. Re:death of the industry or of the album? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "So I say good riddance to the album. Really, half the time albums are about 80% fluff just to pad the track numbers in order justify the price."
      ======
      It wasnt ALWAYS that way. Think of the classic 'arena bands'. For example Van Halen.
      Nearly every song on their early albums were hits, or just damn good songs!

      Unfortunately 'these days', most of the 'major' bands (Or more accurately, the corporate promoted bands) just plan SUCK. Sure they have a hit (maybe two) but thats it.

      Think about this..the self congratulatory MTV award thingies. They have all the BS awards for so-n-so. But, typically thats the last you see of a 'winner'.. They record an ok song, get radio play, get an award, and the rest of what they write just blows.
      Its been this way for a loooong time.

    15. Re:death of the industry or of the album? by Abcd1234 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I think that it means the end of the arbitrarily compilation of an album.

      And that'd be a damned shame, if you ask me.

      I believe the album, as an artistic concept, marked a significant change in the way music was conceptualized. No longer did artists just release one-off hit singles meant to have decent radio play. Suddenly, artists could focus on creating larger units of work which stood on their own, representing a cohesive theme. Take classics like "Dark Side of the Moon", or "Sgt. Pepper's", or "OK Computer". The songs on those albums are great, yes. But the wholes really are far greater than the sums of their parts.

      Personally, I listen to nothing but albums. I *hate* listening to songs in isolation. An album, for me, is an immersive experience. It's an opportunity to dive into a world of the artist's creation. And should the album disappear as a musical format, I believe music would lose a significant form of artistic expression.

      Really, half the time albums are about 80% fluff just to pad the track numbers in order justify the price.

      Then don't buy them. It's as simple as that. Why anyone would throw away valuable dollars on an album with two or three decent songs on it, I'll never know. Flipping through my collection, the worst albums have, at most, two or three average or below-average tracks. Anything more than that, and I skip the album. There are better artists putting out higher-quality material that would be just as happy receiving my money.

    16. Re:death of the industry or of the album? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Maybe that's because you always feel like somebody's watching you.

    17. Re:death of the industry or of the album? by barzok · · Score: 1

      I was with you until the last one. Huey Lewis & The News wasn't exactly a one-hit wonder.

    18. Re:death of the industry or of the album? by PhotoGuy · · Score: 1

      My roomie in univ used to call them "a Flock of Haircuts."

      --
      Love many, trust a few, do harm to none.
    19. Re:death of the industry or of the album? by imageek · · Score: 1

      All that running must make you hungry; hungry like a wolf.

    20. Re:death of the industry or of the album? by NekSnappa · · Score: 1

      Neither were the Stray Cats. And even if you disagree Stray Cat Strut wouldn't have been it. Would've been Rock This Town.

      --
      I want to shoot the messenger!
    21. Re:death of the industry or of the album? by vux984 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Personally, I listen to nothing but albums. I *hate* listening to songs in isolation.

      I like some albums too, but some good songs only exist in isolation. Stuffing them onto an album full of filler doesn't make the album worth listening to but rejecting the song because of the album is just silly.

      Anything more than that, and I skip the album.

      Which makes sense from an economic perspective, but raises two questions:

      1) You are missing out on a lot of decent songs, just because they were released on poor albums.

      2) How do you -know- an album will be good before buying it. Very few albums get full airplay, anywhere. Do you d/l them first? Listen in store? Some albums take time to grow on me; and some of my favorites I didn't care for on the first or second listen. [Really, its a testament to my appreciation for the artist, and/or a particular reviewers opinion that would get me to listen to the album multiple times if the first impression wasn't great.]

    22. Re:death of the industry or of the album? by domatic · · Score: 1

      The best artists are capable of holding my attention for an entire album. Bands like Supertramp and Pink Floyd were masters of it. It isn't albums that need to end. Artists who can't go the ton and produce good ones just need to stop and stick to singles.

    23. Re:death of the industry or of the album? by Abcd1234 · · Score: 1

      I like some albums too, but some good songs only exist in isolation.

      Then sell those as singles. But the loss of the album, as a format, would still be a loss for music listeners, IMHO.

      but rejecting the song because of the album is just silly

      Actually, forget individual songs, I flat out reject artists because of bad albums. Again, it's about quality, and pride in your work. If you can only be bothered to put out a couple quality tracks on a given album, thanks, but I can take my money and my time elsewhere.

      1) You are missing out on a lot of decent songs, just because they were released on poor albums.

      Meh, tough shit. If the artists were any good, they wouldn't be padding their albums out with crap. Hell, I'd prefer to buy a short album, maybe for a slightly lower price, than an album that's 75% garbage.

      And as for "missing out", there is more than enough music out there to satisfy me for *multiple* lifetimes. If I miss out on a few gems floating in piles of garbage, so be it. Again, I don't listen to *songs*. I listen to *albums* (you need only to see how I use my media player to understand this... I don't remember the last time I put it on random or created an arbitrary playlist).

      Which makes sense from an economic perspective

      Actually, it has absolutely nothing to do with economics. Again, an album, for me, is an experience. Why would I want that experience interrupted by bits of filler?

      How do you -know- an album will be good before buying it.

      You listed them already. In-store sampling. Recommendations from friends or other reliable sources. Being Canadian, I can simply download a copy and see if I like it. Or just rely on good acts to produce consistently good material (there are some artists I like from whom I've never purchased a dude album).

      There are many ways to avoid bad albums. Most people are simply too lazy to bother.

    24. Re:death of the industry or of the album? by clodney · · Score: 1

      Technically Safety Dance was not a one hit wonder either - Men Without Hats also did "Pop Goes the World", which I remember hearing on the radio.

    25. Re:death of the industry or of the album? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      just put another dime in the jukebox to hear a good song

    26. Re:death of the industry or of the album? by Altus · · Score: 1


      It depends on the music. Sure, most Floyd tracks sound strange when taken out of the context of the album, but other songs are more than capable of standing on their own. If you listen almost exclusively to classic rock then yes, album oriented listening is the way to go but if you listen to more modern music, or even some older music (most blues albums for instance) the songs really do stand alone and in many cases the album is simply a collection of good songs.

      The album had its day and its day is mostly past. If more artists would create actual albums then I might be more likely to bemoan the loss of the format, but really, other than the occasional Neil young or Tom Petty album (and they wont be making music forever), how many artists out there still make albums that are greater than the sum of their parts?

      I think the album died way before MP3 players hit the market.

      --

      "In America, first you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get the women..." -H. Simpson

    27. Re:death of the industry or of the album? by zotz · · Score: 2, Funny

      And here I thought everyone knew Video Killed The Radio Star.

      all the best,

      drew

      --
      FreeMusicPush If you want to see more Free Music made, listen to Free
    28. Re:death of the industry or of the album? by Abcd1234 · · Score: 1

      or even some older music (most blues albums for instance) the songs really do stand alone and in many cases the album is simply a collection of good songs.

      Well, given that the album is a relatively modern invention, around the time of... classic rock... this shouldn't be that surprising. :)

      how many artists out there still make albums that are greater than the sum of their parts?

      Bah, this just ends up being a battle of musical tastes. As a canonical example, I'd say aside from Pablo Honey, Radiohead have consistently put out albums that have been cohesive pieces of art. I'm sure many others can be listed (again, my collection, which runs the gamut from classic to modern rock, is populated strictly with albums I consider to be quality pieces of work from start to finish... certainly they aren't all concept albums, but they're consistently devoid of filler).

      IOW, just because your tastes suck, doesn't mean the album is dead. ;)

    29. Re:death of the industry or of the album? by eclectro · · Score: 1

      Dude, I can't believe that you just put that song in my head.

      --
      Take the cheese to sickbay, the doctor should see it as soon as possible - B'Elanna Torres, "Learning Curve"
    30. Re:death of the industry or of the album? by superdude72 · · Score: 1

      A couple of years ago I read an article in which Huey Lewis was described as "Bruce Springsteen for retarded people." Apparently, he has a following among the developmentally disabled. The article is kind of sweet, actually, and Mr. Lewis comes across as a gentleman. But I'm sure the person who wrote this got a call from Lewis's manager :-)

      http://www.sfweekly.com/2005-08-03/news/a-very-special-concert/

    31. Re:death of the industry or of the album? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you all missed the humor bus this morning. Good grief.

    32. Re:death of the industry or of the album? by Quellcrist · · Score: 1

      Best response I've seen in a long time. Thanks for the laugh.

  5. Death of the album by ThirdPrize · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Frankly I won't mourn the deat of the album. There are very few out there that work as a whole. even the best artists pad them out with filler. Especially since the advent of the CD meant they had 80 mins to play with.

    --
    I have excellent Karma and I am not afraid to Troll it.
    1. Re:Death of the album by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Just so you know, the CD holds less music then an album. There were several works that did not fit onto a CD in their entirety.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    2. Re:Death of the album by mr_mischief · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This is exactly why the single is the big deal now. If an album was 12, 15, or 18 great songs then people would buy all the songs.

      Some albums were a cohesive experience. "The Wall" by Pink Floyd isn't one song and 9 batches of bad rehearsal. Led Zeppelin's albums always fit pretty well together, too. Lots of rock bands did this at one time or another, and the easy listening people nearly always do.

      As for the album as just a compilation of unrelated songs, sure, some bands and soloists have always done B-sides. Some of them did good B-sides, though. 5 great songs and 5 or more good songs is, to me, worth $10. One hit and 9 or more songs the proverbial million Shakespearian monkeys could each write and perform individually is definitely not. This is one reason the movie industry hasn't been hit by copyright infringement quite as hard -- it's called production values.

      Another reason is that the movie industry has largely moved to market-based pricing instead of setting a minimum any disc should get (hey -- isn't that illegal anyway?). If a movie just came out and it's really hot on the market, it might be $30 on DVD and $45 on Blu-Ray. If it's a B monster flick from the 1960s, there's a good chance it's in the dollar bin. How many albums from the big four record companies are in a dollar bin, or even a $5.00 bin? Lots fewer than deserve that deep of a discount, I'll say.

    3. Re:Death of the album by ThirdPrize · · Score: 1

      That is double albums though. Dont get me started on the 2x45 min CDs some artists release.

      --
      I have excellent Karma and I am not afraid to Troll it.
    4. Re:Death of the album by Kadin2048 · · Score: 1

      True, although an LP is different because it's naturally broken into two sides, meaning you need a transition point between them.

      In terms of continuous music that you can play without any breakpoint, a CD is obviously longer; I think that's what the GP was getting at. Although not having the ~90 minute overall length is annoying, personally I think having 74 minutes nonstop makes up for it -- although it obviously depends what kind of music that you listen to. In some ways, the LP was better for classical music that was built around an intermission.

      Although I've never seen one (I guess it wasn't possible when CDs were introduced, and has never been desired since?), you could certainly now produce a CD that was double-sided, like an LP, with 74 minutes to a side, almost 160 minutes total...not that there'd be much demand for it now, when you can put hours onto a CD with modern compression, perhaps even having it sound better than 44.1/16 PCM.

      --
      "Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
    5. Re:Death of the album by pipatron · · Score: 1

      Huh? So why is all my music like Mike Oldfield and Tangerine Dreams and others that made really long songs always split into part 1 and 2, where part 1 is 20-25 minutes on side A and part 2 is also 20-25 minutes on side B?

      --
      c++; /* this makes c bigger but returns the old value */
    6. Re:Death of the album by gsslay · · Score: 1

      I think you're telling us more about the calibre of artist you listen too, rather than any limitation of the album format.

    7. Re:Death of the album by SSG+Bryan · · Score: 1

      Well, looking at my collection of Mike Oldfield & Tangerine Dream I would say that it was based on the media available at the time.
      For Example:
      Tubular Bells has a part 1 & 2 because it was released in 1973
      Tubular Bells II & III came out in 1992 & 1998 and take advantage of the CD medium and flow for the entire 70+ minutes.

      Tangerine Dream is the same way, but they have moved away from doing 20+ minute compositions.

    8. Re:Death of the album by bishiraver · · Score: 1

      And then on the modern scale, there's BT's "This Binary Universe," which in and of itself is an 80 minute journey through purely brilliant aural landscapes. It isn't for everyone, to be sure, but it's likely the best electronic-music (yet, so, so, non-dancey. It's more similar to brian eno than BT's other stuff) work of art ever.

    9. Re:Death of the album by rickb928 · · Score: 1

      Absolutely, and that's the real point of TFA.

      Talented artists could often fill an album with songs that *all* were worth listening to. But such talent was rare. In fact, after Pink Floyd, I'm having a hard time coming up with a list. Prince? Sting?

      But the music industry has been plodding along trying to sell the album to the current young market, and it ain't selling for two reasons. First, there is iTunes, and you can buy just the tracks ya want. Second, there are very, very, VERY few artists that play to the young market that can string together 6-7 tracks worth buying on an album. At that point, Buying the album (ok, CD, I know what year it is...) is almost a wash - $6.93 on iTunes v whatever Best Buy has them on the rack for. And a third point, if there are more than, say 3 good tracks on a disc, then many will download the whole disc for 'free', rather than pay the $2.97 for the three tracks...

      And this also spells the end of the album/disc contract. I suspect the real change will come when the Big Music Industry Companies start changing their artist contracts to be based either on duration or number of tracks. Since albums/discs are no longer the preferred unit of purchase, why not make artist contracts based on single tracks? Let the lamers spew out as many tracks as they can, hoping some will stick to the wall and sell a few units on iTunes. The loser tracks just disappear into the void. BMICompanies pay only for what sells. Artists with little talent get little pay. Nope, it's not very fair, but fame isn't fair.

      Of course, when your contract is by the track, why bother? Why not change the paradigm completely and, as an artist, sign on with true distributors (iTunes, Amazon, Starbucks?) for at least the first few, then use the capital to pay for better mastering, selling more the next track, and climb the ladder that way? Well, many artists are clueless about how a song gets fixed up into something worth listening to. And from what little I know, the best masterers are pretty much such a hot commodity that they don't contract with a label - they pretty much choose their work. So struggling artists will mostly be looking for a masterer to fix up their track, which is usually a pay up front proposition. Good opportunity for some eager mastering outfits to start working for royalties, maybe.

      In the end, my point is that if the BMICompanies are basically operating in a package-album-and-sell-it-to-the-world mode, those days are already done. Sooner they give up, the better. But they need to break the news to their artists that the album paradigm is dead. And change the payment schedule. And that breaks everything, as artists start looking around for a better deal, having just been told that the old deal doesn't sell any more.

      If I were so motivated, I'd be pimping my website to artists, to have the music ready to taste. Give the first one away at 128kb, and sell it for $1 as wmv or 320kb. Send your buyers a note when the next track is ready, let them opt out without any games, give returning buyers a discount, make the 5th track free, lock them onto your space and get/keep their attention. Always reach out for the next gang. Invest wisely. Be prepared to go into the management business when you can't make a hit any more.

      And the real loser in this? Billboard. Top 40 becomes top 2,000. pfft. Ratings suck.

      --
      deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
    10. Re:Death of the album by Myopic · · Score: 1

      You obviously do not listen to Tool or Radiohead. They are two frontrunning examples of modern bands who put out cohesive albums.

      Frankly, I like the album format, so I'm confused when people complain about it. Even albums which aren't quite concept albums all tied together, the songs are compiled and arranged into a single set. To each his own I guess.

    11. Re:Death of the album by toddestan · · Score: 1

      Although I've never seen one (I guess it wasn't possible when CDs were introduced, and has never been desired since?), you could certainly now produce a CD that was double-sided, like an LP, with 74 minutes to a side, almost 160 minutes total...not that there'd be much demand for it now, when you can put hours onto a CD with modern compression, perhaps even having it sound better than 44.1/16 PCM.

      I'm not entirely sure that is possible. The data layer of a CD is on the opposite side of the clear plastic layer, and the spec says that layer has to be atleast 1.1mm thick. So in order to make a double layer CD with the plastic layer the appropiate thickness, the CD would have to atleast 2.2mm thick, which would be twice as thick as a normal CD. My guess is that a fair number of CD players would have trouble with those, especially slot loading CD players and changers that use a cartridge design. You could try making the clear plastic layer thinner, but that also carries the risk that some CD players wouldn't be able to play the disk either as you're changing the path between the laser and the detector by a fair abount. So cool idea, but I don't think it's going to happen.

  6. A DRM'd copy... by Suicide+Drink · · Score: 2, Funny

    of a recording of the world's smallest man playing on the world's smallest violin plays the world's saddest song...

  7. Apropos quote in the article by BadAnalogyGuy · · Score: 4, Insightful

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    What a clever way to show how propietary content and artificial constraints on access can spell doom! I bet more than half the comments in this thread will be about the idiocy of putting a registration-required article in the summary.

    As for the actual topic at hand, if the music industry goes away, who will provide music? Once the vacuum is created, it will be filled by someone else. Music isn't like buggy whips. Maybe it's like bottled water, though. You used to get it in those plastic gallon bottles, but nowadays you mostly get it either from large 5 gallon jugs or 500ml bottles. Content stays the same, packaging and marketing changes.

    What's the bottom line? The evolution of the music industry will lead to dumber and more expensive product of something that is essentially free otherwise.

    1. Re:Apropos quote in the article by mordenkhai · · Score: 1

      Your proposed complaint ratio only works if you assume half of the posters on /. actually attempt to RTFA.

    2. Re:Apropos quote in the article by BadAnalogyGuy · · Score: 2, Informative

      I just need to call enough attention to it. Slashbots will complain about any perceived slight, no matter how unaffected they are.

    3. Re:Apropos quote in the article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So does anyone have a link to the "no-login-required" version of TFA?

    4. Re:Apropos quote in the article by Dancindan84 · · Score: 1

      Yeap. Music was around (and people made a living off of it) long before it was an "industry." Really though, if you look at how they get paid not much is going to change for the artists. They'll still get most of their money from doing concerts and live performances. They may actually be better off if the big labels die. Life will go on.

      --
      "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde
    5. Re:Apropos quote in the article by Delusion_ · · Score: 1

      You can get pre-made accounts for this kind of web idiocy at www.bugmenot.com

    6. Re:Apropos quote in the article by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 2, Funny

      if the music industry goes away, who will provide music?


      Musicians?

      Chris Mattern
    7. Re:Apropos quote in the article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Chris is spot on, the music "industry" does not create music, it distributes music. Poorly. And advertises it.

      Last I read (it's been years now), you could have a CD manufacturer run off a CD (with jewel cases and inserts) in multiples of 100 for less than $200/100. Artists really don't need the big labels.

      I don't think CDs will go away entirely, they're still useful for collections (movie soundtracks, operas, etc)

    8. Re:Apropos quote in the article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What a clever way to show how propietary content and artificial constraints on access can spell doom! I bet more than half the comments in this thread will be about the idiocy of putting a registration-required article in the summary.


      You new to slash-dot? In order to know that the article is registration-required requires the poster to read the article. Not happening...
    9. Re:Apropos quote in the article by RanCossack · · Score: 1

      Still? I used to use Bugmenot, but then they started blocking all the sites I tried to get logins for.

    10. Re:Apropos quote in the article by Mahjub+Sa'aden · · Score: 1

      Music isn't like buggy whips. Maybe it's like bottled water, though. You used to get it in those plastic gallon bottles, but nowadays you mostly get it either from large 5 gallon jugs or 500ml bottles.

      So... I'm beginning to see how your name came about.
      --
      What is is all that is. Isn't that obvious?
    11. Re:Apropos quote in the article by burgundysizzle · · Score: 1

      Music will always be with us. The music industry is not identically equal to the large labels, it will take more than their stupidity to strip music from society.

      There are lots of independant sources of music and ways for individual consumers to fund the creation of music on the internet (http://www.sellaband.com/ (more individial and friendly), http://www.slicethepie.com/ (more combative and competition like)) if you believe crowdsourcing is likely to produce music that people will want to hear.

      If the big labels die the future is likely to hold (a vastly) greater (and bewildering) choice and less manufactured pop stars to distract everyone (with artists getting a greater cut of whatever the proceeds will be). That choice is actually already here but noone gets to see it because of the noise from the big labels and their marketing machine telling them what they should like.

  8. Oh noes! by Angst+Badger · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Does that mean that if the record companies want to keep making money, they need to produce albums with a bunch of good songs instead of a $16 album with one good song? Oh, the humanity!

    --
    Proud member of the Weirdo-American community.
    1. Re:Oh noes! by Corporate+Drone · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Does that mean that if the record companies want to keep making money, they need to produce albums with a bunch of good songs instead of a $16 album with one good song?

      I'm sure they're sitting in board rooms right now, wondering if they can get away with pricing the one hit at $12, and the remaining tracks at $0.99 each...

      --
      mmm... yeah... You see, we're putting the cover sheets on all TPS reports now before they go out...
    2. Re:Oh noes! by DarkEmpath · · Score: 1

      Jesus Christ, what the hell is wrong with you? I never understand this argument. I buy a fair amount of music, and I've *never* experienced this. Why are you buying stuff you don't like? Why perpetuate this stereotype of the labels cunningly gouging music-lovers?

      I can throw on an Isis or an Opeth album, and enjoy the *whole thing*. There are some songs I like more than others, but I actually enjoy the bands I like (I wouldn't like them if I didn't enjoy them).

      Why would ANYBODY buy an album when they don't like the songs on it? Having one or two "good tracks" is no reason. These people (I hear about but have never actually met) must be the most retarded consumers on Earth, paying for stuff they dislike.

  9. Trash music by getnate · · Score: 1

    Hopefully this will help reduce trash music, apparently increasing the quality of music available.

  10. I'm calling BS on this by DustyShadow · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I really think this is BS. I have a friend who has worked at Atlantic for the past year or two and he currently has 5 gold records hanging on his wall and one platinum is on the way. If these bands are selling so well, why is the industry doing so poorly. Also, these bands are not totally mainstream. I bet 90% of /. hasn't even heard of them.

    1. Re:I'm calling BS on this by GodfatherofSoul · · Score: 1

      I see two angles. If they're lying, they're doing this as a set up for their anti-piracy campaigns ("Woe is me!"). Look at what's happening to the movie producers. They've been running around *bragging* on the record about how much money they're making, then try to turn around and play the pauper when it comes to negotiating with writers.

      If they're being truthful, it could be the same story you see in a lot of talent-based industries (and corporate culture IMO). A huge bureaucracy of "suits" wraps itself around the talent/industry and sucks out profits. When any hardship comes along, there are so many financial commitments that the companies fail. Kind of like airlines going down at the same time the execs are giving themselves $100s of millions in bonuses.

      --
      I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
    2. Re:I'm calling BS on this by dave420 · · Score: 1

      You should see how many copies had to be sold for a gold or platinum disc. The numbers are constantly decreasing. It seems "idiot baubles" are not just for fans of a certain fruit-based computing company, but record executives as well. The position of the record lable isn't viable at the moment. Of course they can keep devalued platinum discs flying through the post, but the bottom-line of the industry is getting whacked, because of their desire for platinum discs. "If we take these 5 decent tracks from this artist, put 1 of each on 5 albums, fill the rest with crap, we'll sell 5x the records!" is only going to hurt the industry, as soon as the people can either download all the crap for free, or buy only the 5 decent tracks, leaving the rest. Suddenly $100 (5x$20) at best becomes $5, and at worst, $0. Tell your buddy to save up and steal those records before he gets shit-canned, as they might just be paying his rent in a few months time ;)

    3. Re:I'm calling BS on this by iainl · · Score: 1

      It goes like this, basically - the real problem is that they're used to the idea of spending so much on marketing (and/or exec salaries) that 'Gold record' is barely breaking even. Sometimes, not even that.

      --
      "I Know You Are But What Am I?"
    4. Re:I'm calling BS on this by poot_rootbeer · · Score: 1

      If these bands are selling so well, why is the industry doing so poorly.

      You'll find your answer in the cutout bin of your local used CD store.

      For every mega-successful act signed to a label, whose catalog will continue to sell well, for ten, twenty, thirty years, the label has 10 bands who will never hit mainstream, but will be profitable in the short run and maybe earn a gold record or three.

      But for every one of THOSE bands, the label signed 50 bands that nobody's ever heard of and nobody ever will, that the label will never earn back their investment from. For all the talk about the RIAA companies telling consumers what they should like, they have a pretty miserable hit-miss ratio.

    5. Re:I'm calling BS on this by DustyShadow · · Score: 1

      The RIAA says the criteria for full length albums is still 500,000 for gold and 1,000,000 for platinum.

    6. Re:I'm calling BS on this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Gold records barely break even for the artist. IIRC the record companies start to see profits around 200,000

    7. Re:I'm calling BS on this by NekSnappa · · Score: 1

      It doesn't matter how dry the turds are. When you throw enough of them at the wall some of that shit will stick.

      --
      I want to shoot the messenger!
    8. Re:I'm calling BS on this by DustyShadow · · Score: 1

      Yea but my point really is that albums still are selling really well and that this whole "piracy is killing us" talk is just BS because albums are still selling. Artists are still going platinum and record execs are still getting rich.

    9. Re:I'm calling BS on this by Sosarian · · Score: 1

      I love how you didn't even enlighten us a bit by naming the bands. Heres your chance.

      It's cool, gold and platinum records, bravo. For some other posters in this thread, if you were in Canada like I am, gold and platinum numbers are about 10 times smaller. But so is the population, so it sort of evens out, other than the money.

  11. That's right music industry... by robinsonne · · Score: 1

    At some point all you bigwigs up in the nice cushy offices need to realize that this business model has some PR issues: 1. Fill Albums with crap music. 2. Tell customers to bend over. 3. ??????? 4. Profit!!!

  12. Bah by JMZero · · Score: 5, Interesting

    My understanding is that, for a $1 iTunes download, the breakdown looks something like this:

    $.75 - Label
    $.20 - Apple
    $.05 - Artist

    If the middleman (who provides neither the content nor the bandwidth, and takes 3/4 of the money) can't make a profit here then I think perhaps they're doing something wrong.

    --
    Let's not stir that bag of worms...
    1. Re:Bah by jay2003 · · Score: 1

      "They can't stick with this model with the weighted costs that they have," said Mike McGuire, vice president of research at Gartner, an industry research group.

      Like most businesses, the music labels costs grew in proportion to their revenues. Revenues are declining and now labels have the difficult challenge of adapting. Though I think they have a bigger problem than the Gartner analyst does. I don't understand what purpose they serve. They used to be a critical part of the distribution chain since was extremely difficult for independent artists to get CD shelf space and radio air play in the pre-Internet world. If iTunes and internet radio, arists don't need the labels anymore. Labels keep a huge share of money from music sales with artists getting very little. Since the labels don't control distribution any more, the artists are better off without them.

    2. Re:Bah by purpledinoz · · Score: 1

      Do you realize how expensive it is to hire an army of lawyers? They really need to increase the price of song downloads to $2.

    3. Re:Bah by theMerovingian · · Score: 1, Flamebait


      Those ratios also probably reflect the amount of investment and work that the parties put in. The label has to produce, market, distribute the music, and handle all the business stuff. Apple has to make enough to offset the cost of their fancy itunes infrastructure. The artists just smoke some pot, sleep with some women, and take all the credit for their commercial success.

      Just think - if an artist could be a commercial success simply by being good, they would do it. The skillsets for operating a successful music business are largely at variance with what it takes to be an entertainer. Off the top of my head, the only two artists I can think of who truly understand the music business are Jay-Z and MC Hammer. There have been other artists more successful than them in real terms (Beatles, Elvis, Madonna, etc), but I bet Jay-Z and Hammer took home a substantially larger percentage of the revenue they earned than most of their colleagues.

      --
      "If you think you have things under control, you're not going fast enough." --Mario Andretti
    4. Re:Bah by Gulik · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Oh, they can make a profit. Just not a profit of the size they would prefer. Remember that, now, they're pulling in $1 for a good song. They liked it better when they were pulling in $15 for an album ... with one good song. Okay, that's unfair to a lot of artists who put out albums that were more good than bad -- but even if you're talking about an album with only good songs on it (and I don't think it's unfair to say that there aren't very many of those), it's still only $8 or $9 to buy all the songs individually. eg: "Bat ouf of Hell," which I think has all solid songs, only has 7 of them.

    5. Re:Bah by noidentity · · Score: 1

      If the middleman (who provides neither the content nor the bandwidth, and takes 3/4 of the money) can't make a profit here then I think perhaps they're doing something wrong.

      You're being unfair! After paying for million dollar mansions, drugs, and lawysers, there's very little left over. What will they put into savings?

    6. Re:Bah by boris111 · · Score: 1

      Well they do:
      1)Solicit artists (though the quality is in question)
      2)Provide the studio
      3)Studio costs, sound engineers etc.
      4)Pay for a possible orchestral accompaniment
      4)And Advertising.

      However I do see your point. Why doesn't a company like Apple take on all those other pieces and start their own Record company to solicit artists. Record companies see the old value they had (by charging $20 a CD, but a net-new company is willing to accept that base revenue as their business model. If I was a burgeoning artist I wouldn't mind having Apple do my distribution, studio costs, and advertising for me. Who cares if anyone buys my physical CD in a store? It's funny I get it now.

    7. Re:Bah by edwardpickman · · Score: 0, Redundant

      I guess I'll stick my head in the lion's mouth. Right or wrong major artists spend 5 mill to 20 mill of the label's money just in studio producing the albums with minor artists, we're talking major labels here, costing around 500K give or take a few 100K. Yes it's obscene given the price of studio time but that's what it takes to keeps some of them happy. Some major artists do spend as little as 3 mill cutting an album but they are considered bargins and it's still obscene. Some goes for studio musicians and things that you hear but the bulk goes to the army of people standing around running for lattes and having special food flown in from New York. Another big expense is advertising. It's hard to cover the cost of adverising a maybe hit single that will sell for a $1 compared to a $16 album. One of the biggest expenses is also flop albums. They aren't any cheaper to produce or advertise when they flop so the studio passes on the cost of the flops. Yes factoring all that in albums should probably average $10 retail for major artists and $5 for lesser known so they are reaping huge profits but they aren't a 1000% as some might think. I know less about the music industry but in film the adverising budget is usually 1/3 the cost of making the film as in added on top of the cost. I wouldn't be surprised if some albums had advertising budgets equal or greater than the studio cost. Advertising isn't any cheaper just because production is cheaper. The music industry is hardly the worst offender. Just picture soda pop. The cup costs more than the soda and it's even worse with bottled water. Big business is based on obscene profits. Hey, lobbyist cost money and don't grow on trees ya know.

    8. Re:Bah by stormguard2099 · · Score: 1

      I don't think they are saying they aren't making a profit. I think the "problem" is that they aren't making the same amount of money they were when they were selling boatloads of cds instead of music download money. While your breakdown does make it seem favorable for the label I bet they made more from selling cds, maybe not per song but with the increased number of songs sold due to selling only as albums i bet they make a nice chunk of change.

      --
      http://greenobyl.com/ please.... think of the children!!
    9. Re:Bah by SSG+Bryan · · Score: 1

      Not quite...
      The record labels do not:
      Provide the studio
      Studio Costs
      Pay for possible orchestral accompaniment

      The label charges all of that to the artist (out of future royalties). The labels NEVER risk their own money. If they don't make it all back through album sales, then they can A. use the expenses as a Tax write-off (Net Operating Loss) and B. The artist is in hock to the label.

        That is why artist build their own studios to record in. It is actually cheaper.

    10. Re:Bah by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think it is something like
      $.50 - Label
      $.20 - Apple
      $.30 - Artist
        less .05 for vinyl breakage
        less .10 for distribution costs
        less .06 for cd production costs
        less .03 for packaging costs
        which should be .07 left over but somehow .02 just vanishes somewhere in accounting.

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    11. Re:Bah by JonnyCalcutta · · Score: 1

      Except, and its a big except, the studios don't pay for all the things you mention. What they do is loan the artist the money to pay for those things. And the first thing that happens to the artist's money, before they get to even look at it, is that the studio takes back its loan.

    12. Re:Bah by whisper_jeff · · Score: 1

      1)Solicit artists (though the quality is in question)
      2)Provide the studio
      3)Studio costs, sound engineers etc.
      4)Pay for a possible orchestral accompaniment
      4)And Advertising.

      -----

      You do realize, of course, that the artists (certainly the majority of them) probably pay for all but #1 on your list (as expenses deducted from the revenue before their percentage is paid to them).

    13. Re:Bah by boris111 · · Score: 1

      Ok call it a loan of sorts (whether it's an ethical loan is another debate)... but what I'm saying basically is why doesn't Apple front those costs to the artists instead. How about giving them a larger chunk of the profits as an incentive to going to Apple instead of an RIAA based company? They already have an advertising arm and distribution arm. All they need to do is build a few studios.

    14. Re:Bah by nine-times · · Score: 1

      Record labels, traditionally, did 3 things:

      1. Fronted the money for recording in expensive studios
      2. Invested the money for actually cutting and distributing records
      3. Marketing/advertising

      As digital distribution grows, they're growing increasingly irrelevant in terms of distribution. They aren't irrelevant yet, but they're getting there. Similarly, consumer technology becoming powerful enough to produce professional albums without the expensive recording studio. The need for a huge company's backing in order to fund recording is disappearing.

      It's getting to be that the role of record companies is to try to market crap. They're not particularly expert at finding talent, producing albums, or distributing media anymore. They're good at taking generic and sometimes awful music and convincing millions of teenagers that it's the best thing ever. And if you talk to people working within these companies, you'll find out that many of them view their job as that: they're marketing/branding companies.

    15. Re:Bah by nine-times · · Score: 1

      Why doesn't a company like Apple take on all those other pieces and start their own Record company to solicit artists.

      Well I believe Apple is specifically barred from doing that after a trademark settlement with Apple Corps. The fact that they even have a music store has been the subject of a lot of legal wrangling. I think it's settled again, but I don't know if they've ever released the terms of the settlement, so I don't know if they're allowed yet to act as a record label.

    16. Re:Bah by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      vinyl breakage & packaging costs? you must be kidding me. there is no vinyl & so no breakage. same goes for packaging. and distribution costs 10 cents per 70MB (raw; not compressed)? even comcast is better than that. i think it is more like
          less .00 for vinyl breakage
          less .001 for distribution costs
          less .06 for cd production costs // probably even less
          less .00 for packaging costs
          which should be .24 left over but somehow .19 just vanishes somewhere in accounting.

      well, that is for distribution via the tubes. may be they could come up with separate breakdowns for tracks and albums sold through different methods.

    17. Re:Bah by Artifakt · · Score: 1

      Right, plus they aren't making the sort of profits they saw when CDs first came out and a lot of people upgraded their old record collections to CDs. Even if they could force everyone to both stick with CDs and buy them honestly, their profits would still be lower than their peak years.

      --
      Who is John Cabal?
    18. Re:Bah by SSG+Bryan · · Score: 1

      Nope, he isn't kidding. These items are still in a lot of contracts.

      And it is actually worse

      Breakage is based on the old 72rpm thingies. (No, I don't have any, but I have seen them, no not the cylinders. They were the predecessors to vinyl 33.3 rpm albums. They were also very fragile)

    19. Re:Bah by gnasher719 · · Score: 1

      Well I believe Apple is specifically barred from doing that after a trademark settlement with Apple Corps. The fact that they even have a music store has been the subject of a lot of legal wrangling. I think it's settled again, but I don't know if they've ever released the terms of the settlement, so I don't know if they're allowed yet to act as a record label. After the latest round Apple Inc. can do whatever they want with the name. Apple Inc. now owns the trademark for "Apple" for use in the music industry, and Apple Corps. has an unlimited license to use the name.
    20. Re:Bah by gnasher719 · · Score: 1

      Ok call it a loan of sorts (whether it's an ethical loan is another debate)... but what I'm saying basically is why doesn't Apple front those costs to the artists instead. How about giving them a larger chunk of the profits as an incentive to going to Apple instead of an RIAA based company? They already have an advertising arm and distribution arm. All they need to do is build a few studios. Steve Jobs has at some point made some comments about the mad business model that the music industry has; spending lots of money to try to find one band who recovers it all. Apple could do some completely different things. For example, they could _hire_ musicians to make a good record, then for example turn it into a download that plays on all iPods and on all Macs for free; anywhere else you have to pay. I'd wonder how much a good record would cost if everything is done in a sensible way. They could concentrate on quality instead of playing things safe.
    21. Re:Bah by LazyPhoenix · · Score: 2, Informative

      Actually, as an independent band with our digital distribution handled through CDBaby, we get about $0.60 per iTunes sale. I think 60% is a pretty fair shake for something that costs us nothing. And, getting checks without worrying about remaining physical inventory is a delight. We sell CDs primarily at shows now.

    22. Re:Bah by domatic · · Score: 1

      MC Hammer? He may have understood how to get a better deal than breakout artists usually get but he didn't understand doodly about keeping money. He didn't realize that his proverbial 15 minutes wasn't going to last forever and blew through that money in a couple of years with no long-term popularity to fall back on. He was even the subject of one of those "life comes at you fast" commercials. The big mansion with dancers grooving in front of it one minute and the "bankruptcy For Sale" sign was on it the next.

    23. Re:Bah by Kris_J · · Score: 1

      The music industry will be "on its last legs" when the artists realise that table can look more like:

      $.20 - Apple
      $.75 - Artist

      And that once they're really popular they can just sell stuff direct from their website and it looks like this:

      $1 - Artist

    24. Re:Bah by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The other thing totally wrong with this article is that labels generally see about $4 per physical CD sold (wholesale price is usually $6, with $1 going to physical production costs and $1 going to the artists). So, the label makes more on itunes downloads if the CD has more than 6 songs on it (assuming all tracks are purchased). The only way this is hitting them is in sales of one-hit wonders. People buy only the 1 good song instead of 9 filler tracks + 1 good song.

      The only people being screwed by this are the bands and the retailers.

    25. Re:Bah by blackest_k · · Score: 1

      78's A bit brittle not the best sound but quite durable, softer LP's got to be so thin warping was a problem. Theres a lot more weight to a sixtys album.

      Unfortunately the record Industrys Disc has never matched the Movie industrys in terms of packaging and added value. Biography, inspiration for the tracks, tour photo's, multiple versions of tracks, ie the loudness track and the real dynamic version. The MP3 version to copy to your music player...
      Maybe create a flip disc one side cd the other DVD with the interesting stuff. As a fan i'll listen to anything you have to say about most anything. How about video of the tracks. filmed on tour, things I will not get from the labels PR machine, and 2 minute sound bites on tv and radio. There is a lot could go on a disc to make it more appealing. how about a 3d stage show and a pair of 3d glasses.

      what do we get instead a brittle cd case with an inlay that falls out, drm root kit and a flat normalised sound.
      cheap nasty trash- are people expected to buy it?

  13. Not dead just BOGOF by MosesJones · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The bit that this "analysis" misses is what we are talking about is the shift away from a pre-bundled offer as the only way to transport the content (music) as the distribution cost for single elements were too low towards a user bundling approach. In other words its moving away from CostCo and the great big packets and towards those nicer supermarkets where you can actually choose what you want. This means moving towards more retailing offers like Buy One Get One Free (BOGOF) and the like. This will tend to mean that albums won't be able to contain filler tracks that are just rubbish but you will be able to buy more dynamic combinations of elements from a single company, band or shop.

    Chirping away about "Used to be $10 for a CD now its $1 for a track" is just plain silly as saying its the end of the industry. What it means is that the distribution cost has now been practically eliminated so all that is pretty much left for the companies is the profitable bit, remember the creation and shipping of a CD (although cheap) is a business cost.

    The industry has big big issues, but that has nothing to do with albums v mixed basket and everything to do with actively preventing people buying music in a mixed basket approach.

    --
    An Eye for an Eye will make the whole world blind - Gandhi
  14. Any options? by 192939495969798999 · · Score: 1

    What compelling option is there to the following current scenario: Some CD has 10 songs and costs 10 bucks. I have only heard 3 songs from that CD. I can "guess" that the other 7 are probably not as good since they weren't released as singles, and I can save $7 by buying just the 3 songs I have heard/want. If they want to sell a whole CD, make sure all the songs are preview'able and equally good!

    --
    stuff |
    1. Re:Any options? by Steauengeglase · · Score: 1

      I have to disagree with the single as the only good song argument.

      I've noticed that it seems to go two ways. Either the single is the best song on the album (ie. one hit wonder) or the single is the most watered-down, generic, made-for-radio, middle of the road song on the album produced to appeal only to a specific demographic other than the musician's core audience (ie. Nashville Effect). Remember those last 4 singles from Modest Mouse after their "major label debut"? Yeah, neither do I.

      I can deal with the first, but the second scenario is almost immoral. Why kill good music that people will enjoy for years for the sake of "jumping up the charts" for a week?

  15. Could have been avoided by whitelabrat · · Score: 1, Informative

    This has been a long time coming. The music industry has been hosing over it's customers for decades and now folks are hosing them back. I'm not saying stealing is right, but from poor quality vinyl records to over priced CD's and more recent crappy or inconvenient formats like DRM or SACD and DVD-A's, the big labels have created fertile ground for music industry anarchy. Reap what you sow.

    I like supporting my favorite entertainers, but I don't feel that the music industry gives them a fair shake either.

    So good riddance.

  16. Hitting reality like a brick wall by SlipperHat · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If the music industry of today goes the way of the dinosaur, it is inevitably their own fault. Rather than adapt and work with technology, they chose to fight it and eventually fought their own customers. Companies that had nothing to do with the music industry (Apple, Amazon, etc.) found an untapped and unexplored way to sell music to people at competitive price using the relative ease afforded by the Internet. The music industry now says that they don't make enough money because they find themselves to be the middleman instead of the people with the product.

    You built a wall around yourself and ignored the real problem. Your own costs are too high, you rely more on the popularity of an artist/band rather than the true talent he/she/they possess, and you chose to ignore new technology in how it could bring you new opportunities. Think fast or die slow.

    1. Re:Hitting reality like a brick wall by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly. This is Darwin's theory at work, people. Those who fail to adapt to a changing environment...

  17. Reality copies art? A sum. by mattr · · Score: 1, Funny

    Here is a series of terms. Do we add, subtract, multiply, or divide them?

    TFA is in a locked site so nobody can comment on it.
    MP3 made sense in the last generation of technology, no longer does it make sense to embrace it.
    Buying an album always is waiting for the other shoe to drop - which is the good song in it?

    An album of filler is to a lossy MP3 of a great performance,
    as a subscription-only website is to which of the following:
    a. TFA
    b. Record industry profits
    c. Slashverbowling
    c. CowboyNeal
    d. All of the above

    1. Re:Reality copies art? A sum. by logixoul · · Score: 1

      What?

  18. Indie music (and albums) by FlyByPC · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I just don't see how major music companies are relevant today, when for a small investment, any music group can record their own music at CD quality or better, burn CDs for small production runs, farm out CD production to a mastering company if they hit it big, set up a website for e-commerce and publicity, etc etc. Any genre of music, from classical to folk-rock to metal to New Age, can be recorded fairly easily these days. In many cases (orchestras), the performance is a much bigger headache logistically than the recording, with so many artists involved.

    With micropayments and the ease of putting content online, it's hard to see what value EMI, Columbia, and their ilk bring to the table. Most of the music that I enjoy can be found on sites like emusic.com -- and no matter what sort of music you prefer, the artists would be able to record and produce it without much more effort than it takes to perform it. Let's cut out the inefficient middleman and buy directly from the musicians!
    On the topic of albums, they may be declining, but there is definitely something to be said for a well-imagined and well-executed album. IMHO an excellent example is ELO's "Time" album; the songs flow into one another, creating a continuous artistic work, rather than a collection of haphazardly-assembled songs. "Down to the moon" by Andreas Vollenweider is another example.

    --
    Paleotechnologist and connoisseur of pretty shiny things.
    1. Re:Indie music (and albums) by Genjurosan · · Score: 2, Funny

      For me this is a very strange moment. In my entire life, I've never met anyone who has even heard of Andreas Vollenweider, and I'm sitting here with my IPOD listening to "Down to the Moon" when I read your comment.

      Off-topic, yes, but mod me up +5 for CREEPY.

    2. Re:Indie music (and albums) by quanticle · · Score: 1

      I just don't see how major music companies are relevant today, when for a small investment, any music group can record their own music at CD quality or better, burn CDs for small production runs, farm out CD production to a mastering company if they hit it big, set up a website for e-commerce and publicity, etc etc.

      The way that the major music labels are still relevant is that the vast majority of people still follow the labels' orders^W recommendations on what to listen to. Just look at the Top 40 or Top 100 lists, and try to count the number of independent/non-RIAA signed artists. The labels' complaint is that, instead of buying CDs, people are downloading the albums for free.

      Frankly, for all the talk about the Internet creating a new generation of independent music, I have trouble seeing how it could work, given that the RIAA's member companies have made people accustomed to following the label's lead in considering artists. Indeed, the labels' influence in choosing music has grown to the point where other influences, e.g. radio and word-of-mouth, have either been supplanted or co-opted by the labels. Given this situation, it is quite difficult for an up-and-coming band to get itself noticed without a contract with one of the large record companies.

      Another problem occurs precisely because of the conditions you have described. Because it is so easy to start up a band and achieve widespread distribution, many more bands have started publishing. While this makes the music scene much richer than it would be otherwise, it does make it difficult for the listener to pick out what he or she would enjoy from the flow of new offerings.

      I guess one solution to this can be seen in the web-radio/recommender systems (like Pandora, etc.). These basically automate the label's role, choosing songs or bands that a user would like based of songs that a user has already indicated they like. However, they have a problem with selecting new music for a user. For example, if you indicate that you like heavy metal, Pandora will continue selecting heavy metal. It can't make the jump and select songs from another genre that you might like based on your preferences within the heavy metal category.

      --
      We all know what to do, but we don't know how to get re-elected once we have done it
    3. Re:Indie music (and albums) by gnasher719 · · Score: 1

      For me this is a very strange moment. In my entire life, I've never met anyone who has even heard of Andreas Vollenweider, and I'm sitting here with my IPOD listening to "Down to the Moon" when I read your comment. Well, I've get "Behind the Gardens - Behind the Wall - Under the Tree" and "Caverna Magica". Well worth listening to. Just lots of work getting the old LPs out, cleaning them carefully and recording them, then typing all the titles in yourself because the CD database doesn't work for things you recorded from LP.

  19. I woudn't say the industry is in trouble by ObiWanStevobi · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The overhead is. Artists themselves shouldn't worry, as long as touring isn't a problem. I know myself and 50,000 other people will pay upwards of $70 in less than an hour of opening to see Tool come to town. For all those that leech off the artists and don't do anything but make it harder to distribute and enjoy music, yeah, they're pretty F'd. Good riddance.

  20. Who wants a standard CD? by wandazulu · · Score: 4, Interesting

    'Cause I don't. I've lamented the death of the LP since CDs appeared; the only benefit CDs ever gave me was that I didn't have to flip the disc over. What did we lose? Well, in a lot of cases, liner notes, the cool label on the media, etc.)

    What I miss is the *packaging* of the LP. They were big and afforded great album art, along with all kinds of neat extras (like the spinning wheel on Led Zeppelin III, or the zipper on Sticky Fingers, or the stickers and posters in Dark Side of the Moon). And even without the extras there are just so many album covers that are just great *art*. It was the cover that made me buy Joy Division's "Closer", even though at the time I'd never heard of them. Frankly, the album cover, AFAIC, is still the best part of the record. ;)

    So, hey, music industry...why don't you downplay the actual tracks and hit up on the packaging? In the Internet world everything is just a stream of bytes so your bytes aren't much more special (and certainly not worth more) than anyone else's stream of bytes. So give it up and make something tangible, keep-able, desirable. Put the disc in a wooden box with a wool interior, or wrap it in tinfoil, whatever...make the *experience* more meaningful. As much as I enjoy the convenience of buying a track in iTMS, I am missing an "experience" that I got with some of the better-packaged albums.

    And the crazy thing is that this is not new to the music industry; they've put out special collectors editions of stuff for years and years; I have CDs that came in pseudo-film cannisters, wooden boxes, even bubble-wrap. Sure I paid a premium but I didn't just want the music, I wanted the creative packaging as well.

    1. Re:Who wants a standard CD? by nick+graham · · Score: 1

      I wish I hadn't used all my mod points, as this would surely earn a +5.

    2. Re:Who wants a standard CD? by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 1

      The "Art" is still around. It's just now a Music Video.

      Music Videos are an 'extra' on top of the song just like the album art was back in the day. They're big money now. Directors, full sets, etc.

      Sure most suck and depending on your genre it may just be some women scantily clad, but every so often there's one that I watch than I just think "Wow. That's cool".

      Freak on a Leash by Korn is one that comes to my mind.

    3. Re:Who wants a standard CD? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow, talk about a generational gap. You'd rather watch some inane video than have great album art? Yuck.

    4. Re:Who wants a standard CD? by madgenius_com · · Score: 1

      Actually I just bought a new LP. The Donna's just released "Bitchin" and you can purchase it on purple vinyl, with the purchase you get all the songs in non-DRM mp3 format to download as well. I don't even own a turntable anymore but I thought the purple vinyl was cool.

    5. Re:Who wants a standard CD? by Phurge · · Score: 1

      I for one, couldn't care less about packaging. All that matters is the quality of the music coming out my speakers.

      --
      I'll see your hokum and raise you a boondoggle.
    6. Re:Who wants a standard CD? by Beyond_GoodandEvil · · Score: 1

      depending on your genre it may just be some women scantily clad,
      You say that like it's a bad thing. Or did you think the artist wrote the song to impress his mom?

      --
      I laughed at the weak who considered themselves good because they lacked claws.
    7. Re:Who wants a standard CD? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, I do. The Sound quality of the songs from iTunes, high quality or not, it is less than what you get from a CD. ...and yes, a CD is less than a traditional Vinyl Album in terms of quality, but little is available on that format anymore. If they started releasing truly loss-less format songs in electronic form, then I would be the first person in line to sign up. Until then, I'll look to the CD as the best source I can get.

    8. Re:Who wants a standard CD? by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 1

      It's not what *I* want. It's a promotional tool, it's what *they* want.

      RIAA Gives you X Budget to make your album go platinum. In the day you blew this budget on a sweet album cover. You're not going to hire a 3rd grade class to do it, you're probably going to hire a photographer/artist.

      Now days music videos sell music. If tomorrow someone invented a technology where you could put a microchip on your forehead and 'experience' the CD and they bundled it with your CD, I bet music video budget would drop off.

    9. Re:Who wants a standard CD? by skarekrough43 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      In one sense I can agree, but in another I disagree.

      You didn't get packaging; you got an "experience." The cover art, the posters, the rolling papers, they were all part of something physical that they were attempting to convey.

      In great part that has changed from the physical to the digital. iTunes and other services have done well because the physical product just doesn't matter that much. If the content is solid in the digital realm then most consumers are perfectly happy with it.

      Tool's "10,000 Days" was a great looking release interesting packaging. I remember it fondly the twenty seconds it took me to wrap it, rip it, and then toss it in a box with the other CD's. It's the only CD I've bought in the last few years since the iTunes Music Store came online and was half an impulse buy ("hey....I forgot this was coming out today") and it was priced less than what I would have paid on iTunes.

      The "experience" has failed to change for the most part. It's almost like Hollywood Directors lamenting about not wanting to put together DVD Extras for release and being angered when they just release the movie without anything extra for it.

    10. Re:Who wants a standard CD? by SSG+Bryan · · Score: 1

      And notice, they are no longer on Atlantic records, yet they have a national distribution deal with Redeye for their own label (Purple Feather).

      What do the major labels bring to the party?

      A lot of overhead.

      And best of all, only 1 or 2 songs aren't top notch. On the other hand, I can tell what they have been listening to, Def Leppard isn't a bad band to steal from tho.

    11. Re:Who wants a standard CD? by east+coast · · Score: 1

      What did we lose? Well, in a lot of cases, liner notes, the cool label on the media, etc.

      For what it's worth Rush's Snakes and Arrows MVI is one hell of a lot better than anything I ever got from an LP package.

      And don't get me wrong. Emerson, Lake and Palmer's Brain Salad Surgery is the reason I got into H.R. Giger and I still have all the original goodies out of Pink Floyd's DSOTM album but it simply can not compare to this. The unfortunate part is that as the physical media's sales sink the less and less reason that bands will have to go this extra mile.

      --
      Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
    12. Re:Who wants a standard CD? by Serge_Tomiko · · Score: 1

      I've just gotten into Super Audio CD's, once I found out my PS3 can play them. They are heavily DRM'd and require a proprietary player - but it really sounds phenomenal. A lot of classic recordings from the 1970s that used the then-new Philips Quadrophonic recording system have been rereleased on SACD and it is of a very high quality. Granted, I've only been able to hear the surround sound since the System 2.00 release a few weeks ago, but I'm impressed.

      It's too bad Sony and Philips didn't see this coming. They should have sold SACD players cheap in 2000 with all releases being Hybrid SACD discs today. I'd probably buy a lot more music.

    13. Re:Who wants a standard CD? by madgenius_com · · Score: 1

      Nothing better then some hard rockin girls anyways. I wanted the cool look and feel. Look what Ozzy did with his "Black Rain" album, a cheap cardboard sleeve and no liner notes or anything, talk about just begging to be stolen. My friend who buys tons of CD's and never ripped anything was pissed. "I should have just ripped it"

    14. Re:Who wants a standard CD? by ffflala · · Score: 1

      So you want a nifty box and poster to look at while you listen to music? Ah, the lament for the joy of LP packaging, how I do not share your opinion on this one bit. Hey music industry... this guy here says how about NOT focusing more on packaging. Instead focus on making quality music.

      I understand that to you, the packaging is part of the "experience", but not for me. In my opinion, the experience of music are those situations you are in while the music is playing and your reaction to it.

      Packaging to me is simply a delivery vehicle. The classic albums from the 70s are simply examples of what marketing fucks would now call 'successful branding'. Contemporary industry has taken this to an extreme, which brings us the likes of madly successful fashion models who call themselves musicians. You're selling an image, and what the the music actually sounds like is not the primary concern. DO NOT WANT.

      There's nothing wrong with wrapping music in visual art like some sort of media sandwich, but it is not necessary. You don't need to buy a soundtrack to accompany a framed print, for example, however good each is.

      And you can always buy things like attractive stickers, posters, nifty spinning gizmos, and clever boxes elsewhere, then enjoy them while you're listening to music. But aside from any previously unheard tracks, all you're paying for with these special editions is a neat-o box.

      Just keep in mind that all of those physical things aren't music, not even the record itself. The music is the noise. And I'd as soon they ship anything that needs shipping in the kind of no-frills box that the White Album came in, rather than see more uniquely-shaped triptych boxes with a 45-page mini designer mag that uses cool fonts and layout.

    15. Re:Who wants a standard CD? by Joe+Jay+Bee · · Score: 1

      The point is that the shitty "women waving their arses around" format of music videos (especially dance ones, I've noticed) which is rehashed once about every 40 seconds is reused so often that I'm beginning to get bored of scantily clad women. Which is, as I'm sure you can agree, at least a double edged sword.

  21. The party's over by Dachannien · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Witness the power of the free market at work. When you've been fixing prices for decades to shore up your profits, you shouldn't be surprised when that system comes crashing down, once an innovation comes along that turns your industry on its head.

    This is how OPEC will feel, if ever we get off our asses and start making commercially viable electric cars.

    1. Re:The party's over by FranTaylor · · Score: 1

      This is how OPEC will feel, if ever we get off our asses and start making commercially viable electric cars.

      How's your perpetual motion machine coming? How you gonna charge those batteries? I hope you have a lot of hamsters.

    2. Re:The party's over by Dachannien · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Nu-cu-lar.

    3. Re:The party's over by FranTaylor · · Score: 1

      That would require our politicians to be about 100x smarter than they currently are.

      How you gonna run all the extra power lines required? The NIMBY folks have their act figured out pretty good. Maybe we can string them over your house.

      It might also help if you learn to spell.

    4. Re:The party's over by east+coast · · Score: 1

      you shouldn't be surprised when that system comes crashing down, once an innovation comes along that turns your industry on its head.

      I've said it before and I'll say it again; no price beats free.

      Even if the industry was selling CDs for 12 USD on the store shelves and had been doing that since the real significant drop in CD prices in the late 80s or early 90s you'd still have a hard time selling when the free alternative came around.

      --
      Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
    5. Re:The party's over by Dan+Ost · · Score: 1

      No, the politicians don't need to get any smarter. Once their advisers realize that there are no other options, the politicians will start to regain interest nuclear power.

      As long as politicians employ smart advisers, they, themselves, don't need to get any smarter.

      And yes, politicians do employ smart advisers.

      --

      *sigh* back to work...
    6. Re:The party's over by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It might also help if you learn to spell. Dare I say.... whooosh?
    7. Re:The party's over by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...we get off our asses and start making commercially viable electric cars.
      $27,000 in 2008 gets you an electric car.
      $30,000 gets you a hybrid of the same type with 230mpg.
  22. *cry* by jasen666 · · Score: 1

    Yes, this news makes me oh, so sad.
    All the bands I like never get signed by any big labels anyway. Such is the fate of industrial/ebm music.

  23. The economy by FranTaylor · · Score: 1

    Who's going to have the $$$ to spend on music when health insurance and energy costs consume your entire paycheck?

  24. Economic model for music pricing to approach zero by Essron · · Score: 1
  25. Golden Era of the One Hit Wonders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    You, Sir, were not alive in the 80s.

    And YOU, my good sir, were not alive in the 50's and 1960's, else you'd know that those were the true golden years of the one-hit-wonders. After all, "making a record" meant a 45 rpm single phonograph disc back then with the primary song on the "A" side and some filler material on the "B" side.

  26. ...and the Insurgency is "in its last throes" by xirusmom · · Score: 1

    I wish, but don't buy it.

  27. not the entire music industry by scharkalvin · · Score: 1

    When people complain about CD's with 2 good songs and 10 yucky ones they are talking about popular music, IE: rock, punk, rap, etc. While this may be the largest segment of stuff in your local music store, there are other genres where the entire CD is wanted material. Classical music (you know Beethoven, Bach, Rachmaninoff, etc), Movie and Broadway sound tracks remain staple areas. As long as there is a demand for this kind of material CD's won't completely disappear.

    1. Re:not the entire music industry by wezzul · · Score: 1

      When people complain about CD's with 2 good songs and 10 yucky ones they are talking about popular music, IE: rock, punk, rap, etc.

      Boy, is that a broad (and inaccurate) statement. Certainly lots of albums are not full of quality tracks, but to take entire genres and say that the albums *always* contain filler is absurd. I can think of lots of rock, punk and hip hop albums that contain nothing but good tracks from beginning to end.

      WEZ

  28. Music + over commoditized + extremey competition.. by blahplusplus · · Score: 1

    ... = Death

    Let's face it, there are so many forms of entertainment out there and only so many hours in a day. Couple that with work, the internet, video games, etc. All forms of entertainment are competing with each other for time that's increasingly not there.

  29. Advertising Disguised A Story by mpapet · · Score: 1

    Head of digital media research company conveniently forgets the enormous costs of producing and distributing CD's.

    Let's say for argument's sake, 100,000 CD kits cost $5 to make. Before you sink a half-million on inventory, you pay the printer, graphic designer, shipping costs, editors/proof readers and logistics personnel to get everything to the final CD packager.

    You still haven't distributed a single CD. To distribute the CD you pay shipping and a variety of logistics personnel to make sure they are getting where they need to go.

    Your sales/marketing costs don't go away with digital distribution and for that reason, the media conglomerates will maintain their cartel and probably make MORE MONEY THAN EVER

    --
    http://www.maxineudall.com/2010/02/should-economists-be-sued-for-malpractice.html
    1. Re:Advertising Disguised A Story by SSG+Bryan · · Score: 1

      it was less than a buck each to manufacture CDs in lots of 1000 in 2000.

    2. Re:Advertising Disguised A Story by cdrguru · · Score: 1

      It migth be $2 to manufacture a CD with paper inserts and jewel case. Maybe. If you are turning out 100,000 of them it is probably more like $1.25.

      Don't forget that all those graphics designers get to work with the web developers to make the pages to advertise the music now. Also, they need to come up with more stuff to go with the music (flash, video clips, etc.) in the "digital domain".

      Turns out the costs are about the same - unless you just pitch the whole thing over and say you're going to drop the music off in the bathroom and hope it advertises itself. In which case the costs are zero, but so are the sales.

  30. Let'em Burn by Phoenixhawk · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Music industry has been a dinosaur for years, and face it they where never interested in the consumer. For years people HAD to purchase a CD, Tape, Album for all of song, and 10 or 11 pieces of crap filler. Its the EVIL P2P people that our killing the industry they say. Cassette tape have been around for decades and decks biggest selling features being that of high speed dubbing, & synchro starting. Piracy has always been around and always will be. Music always has and always will be copied. Its nothing new, what is new is by being forced to sell music in piecemeal, People are only buying what they want and not getting ripped off on the filler. Using digital format, we make backups. CD/Tape get lost, stolen, broken we don't go out and buy a new one, we burn a copy. (After buying the Metallica Black Album 4 times, who in their right mind would play for yet another copy of something you have already bought and own.) Now while I may download a song, If I like it (ie listen to it more than once) I will support the ARTIST and buy a copy or at least order a t-shirt or something from their website. Nobody ever has any love for the greedy labels, who do nothing but take most the profits of the artists. Today with digital formats the artist can bypass the label all together and guess what they get 100% of the profit and nobody misses the label. We the consumer are not forced into paying extra money for bad songs that we will never listen to.

  31. Way to go reducing filler by kryten250 · · Score: 1

    Now with one song purchases we can do away with buying the cereal to get the toy mentality. The busines model can survive but I think the artists are going to be the one to eat it. Sorry Britt Britt.

    --
    FlyingPizzas.com, for the tasteful hermit
  32. Beware of Falling Bodies When Leaving the Building by longacre · · Score: 1

    I work in a Manhattan building whose main tenant is one of the big four record companies. The looks of doom and despair you see on their employees' faces everyday make Milton from Office Space look like Rachel Ray. I think it's safe to assume that the office we sublease from them will add more to their bottom line this year than a new Ashlee Simpson CD.

  33. CD prices by Delusion_ · · Score: 2, Interesting

    CDs started out pretty expensive. I think my first CD was about $30 or so. In the early 90s, new CD prices were going down on a regular basis, to the point where they were making it harder for the used CD shops to stay in business. A lot of large and medium sized labels were able to get their releases out for $9, which made buying a new release a lot easier to swallow than deciding to wait a few weeks for it to show up at the used shops for $6-8.

    After a lot of the better used markets started to dry up, what I noticed is that new CD prices kept creeping back toward $20, and some of the shops that used to exclusively sell new CDs started selling used CDs as well... for $12-15.

    The Harmony House chain used to be a big deal in southeastern Michigan. As the industry changed, they stopped expanding locations. Eventually, they started closing a few stores, then collapsed to one store for classical and one for everything else. Then they just went to one location. I started making a regular trip to start buying some previously expensive niche label stuff that used to be well over $20 - Mille Plateaux, Forcetracks, Mute, etc. because now they were dumping everything at half price or less.

    When I read the articles covering Harmony House's woes, the company spokesmen blamed it on the internet. While there's some validity to that, it wasn't the internet that kept most people away. It was the fact that their stock was regularly overpriced. If CD priced had continued to go down from their low, they should have reached the $5 mark by now.

    In retrospect, I wonder how much piracy $5 CDs would have avoided, because I know my purchasing habits started to change from the most expensive releases before reaching the less expensive. Maybe it would have gotten to the point it is today anyway, but I doubt you'd see the level of wholescale consumer rebellion the labels are dealing with now.

    1. Re:CD prices by SSG+Bryan · · Score: 1

      CDs started out at 15 a pop. This was double the cost of an album. The reason for the doubling of price was the cost of building the CD manufacturing facilities. And of course, the labels assured us that the prices would go down as the debt was retired. Then a funny thing happened....

      Everyone went out & replaced their albums with CDs. And there was Joy in Mudville. But then buyers noticed that the CDs didn't sound like their LPs. The labels discovered that the RIAA equalization (used to address the limitations of vinyl) made CDs sound harsh. So the labels remastered and re-released quite a few of those CDs. Some artists just adjusted equalization (KISS) and some artists went the extra mile and added stuff. And a very large majority went out and replaced their CDs with the Remastered versions of their music. And there was Joy in Mudville.

      By this time, the manufacturing costs of a CD had dropped to less than $1 per CD in lots of 1000. The labels had a choice, 1. lower prices to encourage customers to purchase more, or 2. book the extra profits. And there was joy in Mudville as the extra profits were booked. Then a funny thing happened...

      People notices that they were not getting as much from their purchases as they thought they once did. Customers started to as why the soundtrack to Kill Bill Vol 1 cost more than the DVD for the movie. And then there was no joy in Mudville.

      I could go on & on about failed CD replacements (SACD) & media consolidation, but there is no point.

  34. The Elephant in the Room by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    I am a musician and have been for 30 years. Never had a major deal but understand enough about the industry to conclude the end is near.

    No one wants to admit it but filesharing is the primary reason the industry is experiencing declining fortunes. When I say primary I do not mean to ignore other factors contributing to the decline of the industry.

          Yes they failed to embrace the technological revolution until too late
          Yes they put out a signifigant quantity of inferior product or coddle losers like Britney
          Yes they are a fat and bloated bureacratic bunch of bungling psychophants
          Yes the ala carte offering on download sites is a factor

            But hands down, the sheer amount of lost revenue to illegal downloading and offshore piracy is surely bankrupting the industry as a whole. The Digital revolution made this possible wheras before, analog inferiority and generational audio loss was the major hindrence.

            The current generation of "fans" if you can call them that feel a sense of entitlement to download anothers property freely. They reason its just a song so whats the harm and if we multiply that times hundreds of millions of downloaders over the course of their lifetimes and what economic model does this serve?

          Ultimately it serves to kill whats good about the music industry as evidenced in its history of discovering, nurturing and supporting/marketing artists worthy of our attention. I am fortunate to have been born in the 60's and to not have been subjected to the drivel that passes for music today. I came of age in the 70's, a decade when the long playing LP was more than just a collection of singles.

          The future (if things remain as they are) will be filled with more of the current crop of talentless music pimps and ho's shouting and wriggling with a microphone and rendering lackluster musical pornography and I dont have problem with that as long as there is more to choose from but I predict there wont be and I prefer true pornogrpahy to the lukewarm tittilation that you find in todays music. I say to britney or beyonce etc. go to porn already!

          The future for music is a Randian nightmare where creativity goes unrewarded and eventually dies on the vine.

          Its happpening now, expect more of the same

    1. Re:The Elephant in the Room by SSG+Bryan · · Score: 1

      What you are seeing is basic economics in action.

      The labels target the demographic that has the least amount of of money.
      The labels price their product so high that the demographic target look for substitute goods (in economic terms).
      The labels still look for a "hit" rather than build artist recognition. Bruce Springsteen, Bob Seger, Billy Joel, Ted Nugent, Kiss etc would never make it today, because they weren't platinum artist out of the gate.

      In the 70s, labels shoved a band in a cheap studio for 2-3 weeks to crank out an album, then sent them out on the road for 6-9 months solid. Upon return, rinse lather & repeat. This built steady revenue for both the artist & the label. Bands could and did sell out 5-10 thousand seaters without having so much as 1 album that went gold. Compare to tours today. Would Christina Aguilera, Beyonce etc be successful with just themselves, the band and a backdrop. Probably not, because I suspect that the music wouldn't hold up without the dancers 100 backup singers etc.

      Personally, I blame it all on MTV. Today the visuals are more important than the music.

    2. Re:The Elephant in the Room by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All relevant points but the difference between those classic rock artists you mentioned and todays artists is the content, creativity and talent or the lack of it.

            Today they need thee visuals due to the lack of it, talent.
            Today they need the watered down pornography since its not about the music

      Why did things get this way, the answer is lengthy and complex but it is not one thing and did not happen overnight and I will continue to insist that for artists who may be worthy, illegal downloading and trading is killing the industry they would have been successful in traditionaly.

          The 90's was full of good music, a new generation of good song writing and playing and downloading was not the factor it is today and so they were perhaps the last generation to see their efforts compensated for.

          Today thats not the case and if your not an established artist who can make up lost revenue via live shows and merchandising, you may as well forget it.

      The answer is obvious, you work and slave to create with a cost bore by you and your associates/management/retail distrobution and it is then widely distributed without compensation to all aspects of the supply chain.

          There is your economics at work.

            Back in the day that was called slavery, uncompensated labor

  35. Album Experience by vacantskies9 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I miss the days when listening to an album was an experience. This was because the artist carefully crafted the album to create a mood or feeling. Many artists would write 40 songs and turn 10 into an album. Now they write 2 songs and fill in the others with generic three chord rock songs about how they once knew a girl and something happended.

    I am hoping that the death of the album is a good thing. The last thing we need is another Nickelback album. The death of the current market structure and format can only give the artist more freedom to be creative and that's what I really miss about mainstream music.

    Until then, I'll keep looking for those indie bands that get it and keep listening to my King Crimson albums on my headphones.

    1. Re:Album Experience by Mode_Locrian · · Score: 1

      Fair enough, but there is plenty of new stuff out now wherein the whole album is a unified work. The old chestnut applies: Much of what was popular back in [insert musical Halcyon days of choice here] was total shit, just as much of what is popular now is total shit. Granted, I wasn't alive at the time, but I'd wager that KC wasn't *that* popular in the 70s (and, furthermore, I there are some other bands with good "album experiences" from the 70s that I *know* weren't popular, like Magma and Gentle Giant, for instance). Finally, to make good on the promise of my opening sentence, I'll suggest that you have a listen to the newest album, Mirrored, by Battles.

  36. Put another way by overshoot · · Score: 1
    The"industry" is producing less music that people are willing to pay for. For a while they compensated by bundling music that people weren't willing to pay for, effectively selling a single for $15. Now that customers have alternatives, that isn't working.

    Here's a clue: in the long run, you have to give the customers their money's worth. Either charge less or deliver more. ("Dark Side of the Moon," anyone?)

    --
    Lacking <sarcasm> tags, /. substitutes moderation as "Troll."
  37. Music isn't on MTV anymore by largetalons · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I grew up in the 80's and 90's when MTV's focus was music and music videos. If they weren't playing a video, they were playing something about a band or the music. They promoted new artists all the time. This is where I heard of all the new artists, along with a lot of other people. MTV was on basic cable, so just about everyone with cable got it. This was great promotion for the record companies. In the last decade (maybe more) MTV started to focus on reality tv. Some has been entertaining, but the more they focused on this, the less people found out about new music. Sure, they'll play videos on their other stations, but not too many people get those. The record companies seem to have lost a great source for promoting new artist. Your local clear channel station is not going to take a chance on a new artist/band like Arcade Fire or LCD Soundsystem.

  38. Here we go again by Rik+Sweeney · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "No more albums", "No more filler tracks"

    Not all bands write their singles and then pad the rest of the album out, some actually write about 20 songs, select the ones they like the most, and release an album. THEN they choose what songs to release from the album.

    It's only the American Idol and other reality show winners that choose the singles prior to releasing the album (most likely because they're covers) and then pad the rest with crap.

    I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks that there are better songs on the album...

    1. Re:Here we go again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nonsense! You must not remember the '80s, the era of the one-hit-wonder. I bought so many albums in the 80s because they had great singles, and the rest filled with utter crap.

    2. Re:Here we go again by DarkEmpath · · Score: 1

      Why would you repeatedly buy "so many" crap albums because of the singles?

      I have this mental image of Bart Simpson trying to pick up an electrified cupcake.

    3. Re:Here we go again by DarkEmpath · · Score: 1

      Yes! A voice of reason!

      What is so hard to get? Do you want to dine at a nice restaurant, or eat at McDonald's? Do you want Isis or Britney Spears?

      You don't buy a chihuahua then complain it's not a Doberman.

  39. Dont hold your breath by nurb432 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    They have a lot of cash, and a lot of strings to pull in washington that will prolong any death to long after we are all dead and gone.

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  40. Indeed. It's not so much that... by Svartalf · · Score: 1

    ...the revenues from the downloads are killing them, it is that the quality of the bulk of their offerings is so poor that now that people get to pick and choose what they're getting, they aren't clearing the money when they were ripping us off by the CD and fobbing crap off onto us to fill the CD's.

    Get better content and you'll make the same money.

    --
    I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
  41. So, what they're really saying is.. by naetuir · · Score: 1

    ..They finally figured out what the rest of us have known for quite some time now.

    --
    Use what works.
  42. BAH! by Tsukasah · · Score: 1

    All the music industry has to do is say, "Go ahead, pirate it, lose all the music in the future" Then it wont be fun anymore. ..also, isn't music these days already lost?

    1. Re:BAH! by east+coast · · Score: 1

      All the music industry has to do is say, "Go ahead, pirate it, lose all the music in the future" Then it wont be fun anymore. ..

      Do you honestly people have that much of an interest or a scope on the future of music? Music downloads today are no different than Enron when it comes right down to it; people who don't really care about the future of the industry filling their pockets (and hard drives) with as much as they can before the whole thing collapses and hoping that they don't get caught in the fall out.

      Just like music piracy, Enron didn't only cause problems for their stockholders, they brought down hammers on an entire industry. The shockwave of this kind of greed spreads out over multiple industries and ultimately damages the future of both the primary industry and those industries that have direct connections. Luckily for those who got hosed in the Enron scandal is that it's both government regulated and the product can't simply be downloaded. Even at that rate there were tons of well intentioned people who lost everything and are probably eating dog food out of a can today. Not all business casualties are guys in Beamers with 2000 dollar suits. There are real 9-5 working slobs types who need that investment dollar for their retirement and to get their kids off to college. Nothing sucks more than to see good paying jobs (as in 40-50K a year, not millions) get squashed because some jackass thinks it's their right to do as the will and not worry about who they might be screwing over. Ever wonder why we've become such a WalMart nation with foreclosures being more of a rule and not an unfortunate series of circumstance?

      We're seeing tons of people pointing to the Radiohead model and screaming that it works. Yeah, it worked for the first band out the door with all the free publicity it could handle. What happens when an equally talent bunch of musicians with no fan base and no front page articles on MSNBC.com try the same thing? They're more likely to turn no profit and fade into obscurity. But why care about that as long as we can continue to download as much Pink Floyd and Eminem as we can stomach?

      also, isn't music these days already lost?

      There is tons of good music today. If you're still motivated enough to find it, that is. It's great that kids can get together and make a few songs and let people a half a world away hear it. The question is about finding it and if these kids can maintain the cash flow it takes to keep pumping out songs.

      My guess? Long lived bands are going to become fewer and fewer. If you think that pop music today sucks wait until the market has thousands of copycats using karaoke machines instead of the dozen or so boy bands, R&B, hip hop or whatever leeches. Bands that can't live off a small fanbase as they were able to in the past will have no chance in the future.

      Everyone screams "Go tour" but touring costs money and with a smaller (let's call it indy) fanbase these guys aren't going to be able to put together the revenue to do a serious tour and playing bars and small clubs simply isn't profitable. Established bands can live off of touring, small bands use it to promote their merchandise and get a few free beers. I really don't see why people can't understand this. Maybe most of them never seen the underside of professional music where labels like SST, Touch-N-Go and Discord flourished because they ran their own mail order but most of their bands never got past a couple of LPs and maybe a song on a comp.

      --
      Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
    2. Re:BAH! by Tsukasah · · Score: 1

      I was making a simple joke. I know people wouldn't really care at all about the future of the industry. Some do, but not all, I know. Hell I think everyone on the planet with a broadband internet connection has pirated music(and in the dial-up days). And I honestly think that... well.. mainstream music is lost these days. I'm only 15 but still. I hate modern music! The most modern bands I listen to are Porcupine Tree and Dream Theater! Bah, I haven't gotten enough sleep this past week. Too much crap going on at school. First a bomb threat, and now Aryan terrorists apparently threatened to burn down all the school buildings in my district. It was just a prank call, I'm sure. I highly doubt terrorists would want to destroy rural small-town schools. Go ahead on google maps or something and look up Blue Mound, Illinois. Hell, look up Macon, Illinois. But, just for laughs, go look up "Boody, Illinois" it's in my school district... There's even a water tower that says "Boody" on it! :D

  43. I guess they'll have to tour.. by Trindle · · Score: 3, Insightful

    So let me get this straight, rock stars will now have to actually WORK for the money they make? They can no longer rely solely on record sales to provide their multi-million dollar mansions. Boo-fucking-hoo, I've always supported the music I like by going to seem them in concert. An album is a way to create interest and get new fans to come see you live. This is the new music market the "record industry" had better start slimming down.

    1. Re:I guess they'll have to tour.. by stewbacca · · Score: 1

      as if making an album is easy work...

    2. Re:I guess they'll have to tour.. by brainee28 · · Score: 1

      So let me get this straight, rock stars will now have to actually WORK for the money they make? They can no longer rely solely on record sales to provide their multi-million dollar mansions That's not how the economics of the music industry works. Artists don't make much off the sales of albums and CD's; record companies do. Take for example Jordin Sparks from American Idol. Most likely she's making anywhere from $.03 to $.05 per CD based on her contact with Simon Cowell. This is standard for most newly signed artists. The first contract is essentially a slave contract; you do what they say for the first album or 2, then once you're famous, you can re-negotiate your contract for a larger slice of the CD sales and royalties. This is why many artists like Madonna created their own labels, so that the big 5 are used for distribution and licensing, not for full production. Madonna gets the majority share of her CD sales, and most of her royalties that way. Most new artists make money from touring. Sponsors and advertisers are able to foot the upfront costs necessary to go touring, leaving ticket sales, merchandising and endorsement money going to the artists, after overhead costs are paid. (This is why Gene Simmons from KISS is a master merchandiser; he understood this is how you make money in the music business). Royalties from radio, TV, movie and video game usage of music is used by the record company to pay off the "overhead" they lent to the artist to produce their CD. The artist doesn't see royalties on music unless the money loaned to the artist is payed off; only then will an artist see royalty money. (For example, Nelly, for his last major album, supposedly borrowed $800,000 from his label to record, promote, and distribute his CD. This also payed for his living expenses as well; so the money he's using to pay for all the bling isn't necessarily coming from his tour income; it's coming from the record label, and royalties are not paid to Nelly until that "loan" is paid in full. If they took Steve Jobs advice and changed to a revenue based model, in which CD sales would determine if you made another album, then the industry might start sustaining itself again.

    3. Re:I guess they'll have to tour.. by vuffi_raa · · Score: 1

      It doesn't work that way for indie artists- shows break even or lose $- merchandising is the way to go- I make more $ giving away my music (though people usually want to buy it-) and selling t-shirts and other merch at the shows than I get paid from the shows I play- the $ I get for playing usually covers gas and meal (for my girlfriend and I) + 20-50 bucks per show- I sell 4 or 5 t-shirts and I have made more than that

  44. Re:Indeed. It's not so much that... by SSG+Bryan · · Score: 1

    True that...

    The only thing I want to hear from Christina Aguilera is her moaning my name.

  45. Labels = VC for artists by no_opinion · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The industry isn't going anywhere, it's just changing. Most people don't understand that the labels are basically venture capital for musicians. A VC invests in a start-up and gets stock in return. A label invests in artists and gets (historically) CD sales in return. Large companies can throw their weight around because they had enough starting capital to create good products, make the right partnerships, and grow. Large artists like Radiohead can do a "name your price" promotion because they had enough marking, promotion, and distribution to gain a sizable following. VCs invest in a portfolio of companies because they know 1 in 12 will succeed, and that 1 has to pay for the 11 failures. Labels invest in a portfolio of artists for the same reason.

    Small start-ups can self fund, but the largest companies continue to have significant VC backing because it takes a lot of resources to make products and grow. Companies sign with VCs because they want that upfront investment. Unsigned artists can promote/distribute, but the biggest artists continue to have major label backing. Most serious artists continue to want label deals because they want the upfront payment and marketing/distribution muscle that allows them to focus on their artistry and not how they're going to feed themselves tomorrow. As proof, notice that even the big YouTube/MySpace artists are signing label deals.

    So what's changing is that the labels will have to provide more services for artists and get things other than CD sales in return. But the need for "venture capital for artists" isn't going anywhere, so long as there are people who want to make music for a living.

    1. Re:Labels = VC for artists by Animats · · Score: 1

      True. During the dot-com boom, one band got VC funding and tried to IPO. It was a flop, but a cool idea.

      The music industry could probably keep CDs alive if they dropped the price to $8 and undercut the online people. Manufacturing cost is well under $1, including packaging. From manufacturing to on the shelf at Wal-Mart is less than 2x for most Wal-Mart products. So there's still plenty of headroom for profits. Most of the spending in the music industry actually goes into promotion.

      Promotion is the bottleneck. Promotion is the other function record labels perform. It's their remaining competitive edge. "Myspace Records" was a flop, even though Myspace has very low cost promotional capability; they can run ads on their own site, and did. (That seems to reflect mismanagement; they couldn't get the recordings out the door, the bands were mediocre, and they couldn't even keep the Myspace Records page on Myspace updated.)

    2. Re:Labels = VC for artists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree, promotion is something labels are very good at.

      People seem to think that the new networked channels of promotion and advertising available to non-signed bands are somehow unavailable to labels.

      When you look behind all the bands that have 'come from nowhere' in the last few years due to internet popularity, in the background there are pluggers, astroturfers and the same companies pushing them that have handled many mainstream bands promotions.
      Using a good label with experienced internet pluggers will get your video seen and your music heard, on the internet like anywhere else.

      At the moment there is a general dislike of the record labels, and a desire for exiting unsigned acts.
      I bet Sony will be happy to provide 'unsigned' and 'edgy' and 'new' music to all the internet punters, and will promote it to a degree that the competition (a guy with just a myspace homepage selling music at 10p a song) does not stand a chance. As far as pushing an act goes, these guys are old masters and not afraid to play games.

    3. Re:Labels = VC for artists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thats basically it in a nutshell. Although there are alot more DYI artists now do to technology, there will always be an industry for artists who want to make money from theyre art but don't want to do all the other work(recording/promo). They'll sign away some of the earnings to have someone else handle buisness. The whole thing is in transistion and has been for some time now. Once the VC's figure out how to make money the new way (whatever it'll be) they'll stop trying to hold on to the old way .

  46. Stop with the required logins! by edge_gid · · Score: 4, Informative

    Record labels' bigger issue is replacing CD sales
    By Troy Wolverton
    Mercury News
    San Jose Mercury News
    Article Launched:11/17/2007 01:37:25 AM PST

    In the end, the long battle by the record labels against unrestricted digital music may have been little more than sound and fury signifying nothing.

    At least, that's how it's starting to appear now that two of the major labels in recent months have embraced in some fashion the MP3 format, which has no copy protection. The early returns from those moves indicate they've had little impact on the industry's fortunes - for better or for worse.

    Instead, the moves highlight a bigger problem. And that is how the labels are going to replace sales of CD albums, which constituted the core of their business and have plummeted in recent years.

    "These are ailing businesses on their last legs," said Eric Garland, chief executive of BigChampagne, a market research company focused on digital media. The question of copy protection on song downloads "matters a whole lot less to them than it once did."

    For years, the major record labels fought a pitched battle against the MP3 format. The format doesn't allow for any copy restrictions, which made it a popular choice for songs swapped on illicit file-trading sites such as the original Napster and Morpheus.

    To combat such piracy, the major labels insisted online stores that sold music had to wrap songs and albums in digital rights management (DRM) technology, which can restrict the number of copies users can make of a song or the number and types of devices it can be played on.

    But online music and electronics vendors complained that such restrictions were limiting sales, in part because not all formats worked on every type of player.

    In the past year, the music labels have become increasingly receptive to those arguments. In April, EMI announced it would make its entire catalog available for sale in DRM-free formats. In August, Universal Music Group, the world's largest recording company allowed the sale of a significant portion of its catalog in the MP3 format.

    The labels' moves have opened up competition in the digital music space. In September, Amazon.com launched a digital music store, featuring only MP3 tracks. Meanwhile other, older digital music vendors, including iTunes and Wal-Mart's Web store, added DRM-free tracks.

    Because those songs lack DRM, they can be played on just about any digital music device.

    Although it's still early, DRM-free music seems to have had, at best, a slight positive benefit to the music industry.

    Sales of DRM-free music to date have "outperformed" EMI's expectations, and Wal-Mart has seen its MP3 sales grow "considerably" since August, when its Web store made them available, representatives for the two companies said. However, neither they nor other labels or Web stores disclosed specific sales results.

    Overall, the number of digital songs sold each week seems to have been unaffected by the launch of the major DRM-free stores since May, according to data from Nielsen SoundScan. Digital song sales - both of tracks with and without DRM - are in the same range after May as they were in the weeks before DRM-free sales started.

    But that's small consolation for an industry whose wholesale revenue in the United States was down 11 percent in the first half of this year, according to IFPI, the industry's global trade group. That's on top of declines in retail sales in six out of the past seven years, according to the Recording Industry Association of America.

    Even if the effect has been questionable, some analysts think that eventually all the labels will sell DRM-free music.

    "The writing on the wall, for the most part, is here for DRM," said Michael Gartenberg, a vice president and research director for Jupiter Research.

    But not yet. Universal and Warner are still just experimenting with DRM-free music, and Sony BMG isn't even doing that much, analysts note.

    "The marketplace wil

  47. My Favorite Consequence of the Paradigm by geoffrobinson · · Score: 1

    Record companies would drop or not sign promising acts if they didn't fit a certain mold. When grunge/alternative was king, it was harder to break if you weren't a grunge band from anecdotes I've ehrd. I'm sure in the early days for grunge it was harder for them if they weren't a hair band.

    Now, a band can produce their music and get it out with less corporate filters. If it doesn't fit a certain pattern or trend, so be it.

    --
    Except for ending slavery, the Nazis, communism, & securing American independence, war has never solved anything.
  48. simple solution for the industry by recharged95 · · Score: 1
    Just like the sports industry, just stop paying millions to the entertainers that don't deserve it.

    The industry should return to the olde days, that people should be getting into the industry for their artistic interest and paid accordingly. None of this entertainer stuff, I want musicians--and it's called quality music content. This is all too familiar in the sports industry (high priced players, mediocre performances, greedy owners).

  49. The Music Industry 50 years ago by xjimhb · · Score: 1

    I remember what it was like way back when. What they had in RECORD stores was very different. The section for classical music was much larger. You bought LP's for classical, show and movie music, old "standards", and albums of a few of the top performers. All the "pop" music (relatively ephemeral stuff) was on 45's (hit singles with whatever on the B side).

    Go back ANOTHER 10-20 years, and there was NOTHING BUT SINGLES (on 78's). An "album" was two or more 78's with a cover. The original Broadway cast album of Brigadoon was TEN songs, it HAD to be releasable as an album of 5 78's.

    The music industry was alive and well back then when most people bought singles. The single was the mainstay of the industry. It was a perfectly workable business model. Maybe not as lucrative as forcing people to buy everything on albums, but workable. The music industry needs to figure out what they used to do 50-60-70 years ago, and go back to it. Obviously that is what customers want, because as soon as it became technically feasible again there has been a stampede to it.

    Or maybe the music industry has its head too firmly planted where the sun don't shine, and won't see this, and won't get on the ball, and it WILL DIE.

    1. Re:The Music Industry 50 years ago by BCW2 · · Score: 1

      I remember in the 60's when the shift happened. Like most changes in music in that time it was caused by the Beatles. Most groups would sell maybe 4 singles at the most off of any album because the rest was filler. The Beatles really were the first to try to put out an album with nothing but good songs on it. Most bands followed the trend and singles quit selling because 12+ singles cost more than the complete album. Somewhere in the last 40+ years groups started going back to mostly filler songs. When was the last time anyone came out with a new album where any of us "wanted" to here every song? Sgt Pepper and Dark Side of the Moon are the most famous of those (for the country fans I'll include Red Headed Stranger). Now that there is a way to cherry pick an artists catalog for what I really like there is no reason to buy a complete album except a Greatest Hits.

      I am not talking about Classical music here, most albums of this genre are excellent. A good to great orchestra will put out a fine effort on any recording. It is really a matter of deciding which rendition of a specific piece each of us prefers.

      --
      Professional Politicians are not the solution, they ARE the problem.
  50. Ok, I don't understand by ShooterNeo · · Score: 1

    I've personally stood in a studio while a small college band was recording. I've fiddled with pro tools and positioning the mikes. I know what it costs per hour (about $100) and the total cost to record an album ($1-2k for a demo, about 10k-??? for a full on professional album). It's NOT THAT EXPENSIVE. It only takes a band a few weeks to make an album! SO, the minimum number of people buying music in order to have JUST as much music actually produced as there is today is only a TINY fraction of the money currently spent on music. If, say, HALF the revenues of a cd actually went to the band/production costs(cds are about 8 bucks wholesale, so $4.00) instead of maybe $0.10 they'd have to sell a LOT less.

    If, on itunes, about half the money went to the people making the music (the band, the songwriters, the studio workers) they could probably charge $0.30 a song. Furthermore, popular bands easily make millions by touring - if they ONLY had income from tours, popular musicians wouldn't starve - they'd just have to live in smaller mansions and throw fewer parties with less free cocaine.

    Once the middlemen all die and stop drowning out the industry with "popular" music and billions in advertising, I think the industry will be healthier. Just as much music will be made, and people will pay a lot less for it.

    1. Re:Ok, I don't understand by east+coast · · Score: 1

      I know what it costs per hour (about $100) and the total cost to record an album ($1-2k for a demo, about 10k-??? for a full on professional album). It's NOT THAT EXPENSIVE.

      It took Steely Dan 2 years of recording time to do the Gaucho album with professional studio musicians that probably wouldn't answer the phone for 100 dollars. Care to revise these figures?

      The studio built under your local guitar shop is a far different beast from a professional studio.

      --
      Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
  51. Re:Still not getting it, are you? by wmelnick · · Score: 1

    You have bought into the record companys' BS. Copying a song (or data or anything else) is not stealing, it is unauthorized copying. Stealing is when you take someone's possession and deprive them of it. If I was somehow able to transfer the copyright ownership of a song to myself, then I will have stolen it. Until then when I have done is potentially deprive someone of income from that song. They still own the song.

    Why potentially? Because if I had to pay what they are charging, I might not have bought it.

    With the exception of a very small number of bands, nobody but the record company and the distributor makes money anyway. I have many friends in the music industry, from Artists to engineers and mixers and just about everything else across the board. They copy music.

    Almost all artists make money on performances and merchandise. Some make money on music, but it is the exception. See King Crimson and Porcupine Tree for examples.

    Stop buying into the RIAA's re-definition of stealing.

    W

  52. Nobody Has Mentioned... by RevHawk · · Score: 1

    Why has nobody mentioned the Draconian DMCA being pushed through Switzerland and Canada...two places I honestly expected to some of the LAST to go!

    THIS is what truly terrifies me - corporatocracy. Government by the will of the corporation, for the corporation. Democracy, it seems, has been subverted.

    Just look to Canada's recent minimum sentencing drug law push after a court ruled prohibition illegal.

    And the Swiss were supposed to be safer with Direct Democracy. I suppose we'll watch it tested in the near future...

  53. Still boycotting by canuck57 · · Score: 1

    Me, I am still boycotting them until it also says "DRM Free, no Sony Rootkits".

    And with a price drop, I would again buy more.

  54. Needs Diet and Exercise by blueZhift · · Score: 1

    To survive and prosper, Big Music needs to do a couple of things in this new era of the music industry. They first need to go on a diet and get used to smaller revenues coming in with the demise of the force-fed album sale. And second, they need to get more exercise. That is, in order to compensate for smaller revenues due to ala carte buying of songs via download, they need to increase the supply of music by recruiting and promoting a lot more artists. There needs to be an explosion of quantity and diversity of music. If you can't sell more albums, then sell a lot more songs. This is all doable, but it's going to mean abandoning the old business model.

    I'm not a fan of Big Music, but if they are smart, they can certainly survive and perhaps even win back all of the goodwill they've lost trying to prop up the old model. Long odds...

  55. TFA: "(15 Songs x $1) (15$ x 1CD) $15" by slas6654 · · Score: 0

    How could music industry be on in its last legs? The article basically tries to push off this number that 15 Songs does not equal 1 album. This is garbled microeconomics. The fact of the matter is that this is a macro-economic change. People are still buying the same quantity of music. People just aren't buy the crap. This is a macroeconomic change that is long overdue. As soon as the recording industry fixes their quality and price; the overall quantity and gross sales will improve.

  56. All I can say is... by blind+biker · · Score: 1

    ..pass the popcorn: let's enjoy the show!

    --
    "The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
  57. Good riddance by JustNiz · · Score: 1

    Record industry: You ARE the weakest link. Good bye.

  58. Just like the VCR killed Hollywood. by mcmonkey · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Oh wait.

    The movie folks fought like heck to kill the VCR. And in the end, not only did home video not kill the movie biz, it likely saved it. Try to image a movie industry that only makes money from theatre showings and the occasional soundtrack. Now it's not tapes but discs, but we have the movie, the director's cut, the remaster, the collectors box set. I doubt Disney pumps out all those direct-to-video sequels because home video is killing their business model.

    Likewise, when the music industry folks finally get their heads out of their butts, they'll realize direct digital distribution is not a threat, but rather the savior.

    I don't know why they haven't jumped on board years ago. You mean we get to sell music without the overhead of a physical plant to produce discs/tapes/whatever, without a transportation infrastructure to deliver the product to retailers, without having to share the profit with stores? What's the catch?

    Yes, making quality copies is easier for the consumer than taping off the radio or making a dub from a friend. But 1) that fact doesn't negate any of the positives of the above paragraph. And 2) playing luddite and ignoring all the positives of the above paragraph doesn't prevent any of the issues of unlicensed digital copies.

    So as it is now, the RIAA folks get all the negatives (from their point of view) of the internet and digital music, while refusing to partake in any of the positives.

    One day they will wake up, just like the movie folks did. When that happens, not only will the digital revolution not kill the music industry, it will save it.

    To the folks who say the music industry will go away because bands don't need it, I disagree. Not everyone has the resources to build/rent a studio and make masters. And throwing up your mp3s on the band web site is trivial when you're a local hit and expecting a couple thousand downloads; it's not quite the same when you're hoping for millions of downloads. Putting together a tour of college town bars with an old VW van is not quite the same as organizing an international tour of stadiums.

    Yes, the current business model is something akin to the record companies are property owners and artists are overworked dirt get combed by share croppers. Yes, I hope direct community built between bands and fans through the web will give artists move leverage. But I doubt music companies as we know them will disappear any more than the web and digital distribution has freed authors and killed off the publishing houses.

    1. Re:Just like the VCR killed Hollywood. by twistedsymphony · · Score: 4, Interesting

      ...Not everyone has the resources to build/rent a studio and make masters. And throwing up your mp3s on the band web site is trivial when you're a local hit and expecting a couple thousand downloads; it's not quite the same when you're hoping for millions of downloads. Putting together a tour of college town bars with an old VW van is not quite the same as organizing an international tour of stadiums....
      When was the last time you tried to do any of that stuff?

      A lot of hard work is required sure but it's not as money intensive as you think. My younger brother was in a local band for a while, he's not any more but he's still friends with the former members and during that time they got an album recorded... it cost a few hundred bucks and the quality is just as good as any major label CD you'd buy in the store (arguably better than some). Having a few hundred discs pressed and packaged complete with artwork was a few hundred more... Essentially they got an physical product they could sell at shows for less than the cost of a new gaming rig.

      As for touring/getting noticed etc. while my brothers band broke up one of the guys started a new band and decided to just tour and promote their website instead of selling physical CDs, booking shows the next city over a few weeks in advance and moving around the country that way. By the end of the tour they had a record deal with an indy label and are making quite a bit from iTunes download alone, enough that they all bought BMWs and have an actual tour bus and roadies.

      My brother is in school now for video production. he has another friend who writes his own music, he saved and spent a couple grand on his own recording equipment, plays local shows and sells his music online, my brother produced a music video for him using his own camera (Cannon GL2) and put it on YouTube. It became the #3 most watched video the week it was put up and now his friend is making enough from his online sales that he was able to quit his day job and concentrate on his music full time.

      My Uncle is a local Jazz musician, is digitally distributed and has pressed several cds which he sells through his website, and the indy label also distributes to record stores in this region of the US. He also works part time as a music instructor.

      NONE of these people are superstars... but, they're all making a living in the music industry outside of the RIAA and without the "resources" of a major label... Not everyone in the music industry wants or needs to be a multimillionaire superstar... some are quite content to do what they love and make enough money doing it to live comfortably.
    2. Re:Just like the VCR killed Hollywood. by Red+Flayer · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Emphasis mine:

      I don't know why they haven't jumped on board years ago. You mean we get to sell music without the overhead of a physical plant to produce discs/tapes/whatever, without a transportation infrastructure to deliver the product to retailers, without having to share the profit with stores? What's the catch?

      Yes, making quality copies is easier for the consumer than taping off the radio or making a dub from a friend. But 1) that fact doesn't negate any of the positives of the above paragraph.
      Sure it does. They don't get to sell music if it's available in infinite quantities for the cost of electricity and W&T on computer hardware. The catch is that the end-users get to redistribute without all the other overhead, such as marketing, advertising, legal, finance. Since their overhead is greater than all the other "sellers", their model is toast.
      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    3. Re:Just like the VCR killed Hollywood. by Penguinisto · · Score: 1

      Not everyone has the resources to build/rent a studio and make masters.

      Says who? Okay... not everyone, but in an area where the local music scene is large enough, what would stop someone from setting up a small indie studio, and charging local/regional bands some dough to use it (or perhaps a cut of the sales if the band is that good)?

      Take my area ferinstance - The Portland/Seattle region is pretty large for local bands of nearly every type. The two towns are only 3 hours' drive apart, which means some guy can set up in one town, and yet still get steady business from both.

      Sure, it won't be one of those posh NYC or LA rig-ups with 40-foot-wide soundboards, walls full of recording gear, cocaine and hookers on standby in the lounge, etc... But it can be a fairly solidly built studio for a reasonable sum, and produce quality sound in the process.

      As a bonus, a band wouldn't have to sign with a big label to get time in it if the proprietor has any decent business sense.

      /P

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    4. Re:Just like the VCR killed Hollywood. by rhakka · · Score: 1

      You don't need a "studio" or "masters" anymore.

      A computer, some microphones, and anyone who understandings mixing in a garage with some rugs on the walls and you've got all the "studio" you need these days. Because of this, there is almost no barrier to entry in recording anymore. The stuff indie bands are turning out, self-financed, sounds better than professionally released CDs from ten or twenty years ago already.

      The only thing the "recording industry" can do that most people can't these days is promote. That would be a "promotion industry" though, not a "recording industry". So while the current recording companies may transform, they will not survive unless they do actually transform their focus. Currently they are a "loan sharking, promotion and recording industry" and they have to drop one, I hope they drop another and just do promotion... though perhaps they will continue to entice naive musicians to sign all future rights over to them in exchange for a short term loan for awhile yet to come...

    5. Re:Just like the VCR killed Hollywood. by devjj · · Score: 1

      It sounds better than a lot of stuff being released today, considering all the compression and volume boosting that goes into modern albums to ensure they can be heard in club environments. The indie is far more likely to record an album with the intent that it is an accurate reproduction of the original.

    6. Re:Just like the VCR killed Hollywood. by mcmonkey · · Score: 2, Funny

      I'll just make my own recording studio! With hookers, and black jack...

      (I couldn't resist)

    7. Re:Just like the VCR killed Hollywood. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One day they will wake up, just like the movie folks did. When that happens, not only will the digital revolution not kill the music industry, it will save it.

      The movie folks have *never* woken up... have you not been paying attention to CSS and the DRM on BluRay and HD-DVD? Or the broadcast flag? Or all of the other schemes that they've tried to limit your access to their content?

    8. Re:Just like the VCR killed Hollywood. by mattkime · · Score: 1

      >>It became the #3 most watched video the week it was put up and now his friend is making enough from his online sales that he was able to quit his day job and concentrate on his music full time.

      are you friends with the chocolate rain guy?

      (i think that song is about racism but i'm not sure)

      --
      Know what I like about atheists? I've yet to meet one that believes God is on their side.
    9. Re:Just like the VCR killed Hollywood. by GWBasic · · Score: 1

      I don't know why they haven't jumped on board years ago. You mean we get to sell music without the overhead of a physical plant to produce discs/tapes/whatever, without a transportation infrastructure to deliver the product to retailers, without having to share the profit with stores? What's the catch?

      It's simple, really. The record execs are trying to make money by doing little work. The complexity of physical distribution allows them to skim their profits out of the inefficiencies of the inherent waste in the system.

      Digital distribution means that record execs will be cut out of the loop!

    10. Re:Just like the VCR killed Hollywood. by mcrbids · · Score: 1

      And throwing up your mp3s on the band web site is trivial when you're a local hit and expecting a couple thousand downloads; it's not quite the same when you're hoping for millions of downloads.

      I guess you haven't heard of Bit Torrent which does a remarkably effective job of scaling to massive sizes without linear increases in bandwidth usage? Yes, that big, oppressive black thing is the rock you've been hiding under - get out!

      At one point, suprnova.org related traffic accounted for something like 40% of all the traffic on the Internet. Yes, 40%, internationally. You can be quite certain that they had nowhere near that kind of hosting capacity directly...

      Up to the connection/process limits of the server, BitTorrent allows you to serve 1000 clients with virtually no increase in total bandwidth usage over serving maybe 2-5 clients with HTTP.

      No, it's not quite the same as Deezer's "on demand" music system but it still allows for massive distribution of material at minimal cost.

      --
      I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
    11. Re:Just like the VCR killed Hollywood. by twistedsymphony · · Score: 1

      No, not the Chocolate Rain guy. I don't think his video was featured on YouTube, it just got linked around a lot, I could be wrong though.

  59. "Bat ouf of Hell," ... has all solid songs by wiredog · · Score: 1

    You did lots of drugs in the 70's, didn't you?

  60. with trent reznor... by Sfing_ter · · Score: 1

    With Trent Reznor dropping usb keys with his latest album in random restrooms and asking the finders to share... you think the "others" in his industry won't realize they can create & market without a gaggle of idiots taking A LITTLE OFF THE TOP at every step of the process?

    --
    A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing. Emo Philips
    1. Re:with trent reznor... by east+coast · · Score: 1

      The difference is that Trend Reznor is an established product of the music industry. Yes, he is the product that they marketed him as and if Trend were honest he'd probably admit that he'd have a pretty hard time ahead of him today if he were at square one trying to establish himself.

      The man is fortunate that he will be able to live off of NIN nostalgia for the rest of his life. We can't really put a price tag on how much of an advantage that is for him.

      It's easy to scoff at the industry structure once you've taken all you can from them. Like any other business deal there is a break even point and Trend is on the losing side of that deal now. His record label doubtlessly lost a ton of artists just like him without ever seeing any real payback for their investment. If Trend wasn't so self-centered he'd be able to see this relationship and understand that while he may not need them today they carried his ass to where he's gotten to.

      He reminds me of a young 20-something thumbing his nose at his parents after they went through all the expense and pains of raising them and putting their ass through school. Of course, we'd see the 20-something with his new job and his first apartment as ungrateful little jerk while most seem to be cheering Trend on. But the relationship really is no different.

      --
      Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
    2. Re:with trent reznor... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I dont agree. I would say Trent's TALENT made him what he is today, that the labels Helped him reach the size of audience he has isnt really up for debate. However I suspect his mansion is smaller then the 5 corporate moguls who signed his payheck.

    3. Re:with trent reznor... by east+coast · · Score: 1

      The 5 corporate moguls you speak of worked with many more artists than Trend has and has made that money back many fold. Or do you really think that record execs make one band profitable and they never work again? Please.

      It's funny to hear NIN fans and Trend supporters caw on about his talent. The man floundered for years on his own work. Only when he could do a demo on "borrowed" studio time and resources as a janitor did he ever make a dime from his music when he sold out to TVT who paid for him to record PHM.

      Anyone with any real knowledge of labels will tell you how much of a joke it is that Mr. Trend "musical integrity" Reznor signed a contract with TVT. He may as well been on K-Tel. TVT is the sausage factory of all music labels. So much for him and his high handed attitudes about doing it all for the music and for the fans.

      The bottom line is that Trend did try to make it on his "talents" and never got a foothold as a profitable artist without a record contract. The babble about PHM being an indy album is like claiming that Scaled Composites is couple of guys in a garage workshop that cranked out a space ship.

      --
      Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
  61. Exactly ... by ianare · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Look at pre-2001 Afghanistan - music was considered sinful and evil and was banned. But people would still meet in secret and sing, and would still find ways of obtaining cassettes or CDs and listen to them behind locked (and presumably sound-proof) doors.

    In fact I would say that BigMusic is anything BUT. They are only in it for the money, they don't care about art, about expression, or about individuality. Not that there's anything wrong with making money off of art, but it should most definitely not be the prime motivation. And the reason why music sucks so hard nowadays is because money has become the prime motivator for many so-called 'artists'. If anything the demise of the record industry (just the word 'industry' disgusts me) could usher a re-awakening of 'true' music - art for art's sake.

    1. Re:Exactly ... by nine-times · · Score: 1

      I actually don't particularly have a problem with people trying to make money from art, and I don't care too much whether the primary motivation is the money or the "art for art's sake". As an audience member, all I really care about is whether or not I like it.

      But what I specifically don't agree with is when people are trying to use my government (yes, "my government", or if you prefer "our government", but the point is that the government is properly owned/run by the people) to prop up a failing poorly-run businesses while those same businesses attack the citizens my government is supposed to be protecting.

      Or to put it another way, the purpose of my/our government is to protect me/us. The goal of my government should not be to ensure profitable business for Sony/Universal/EMI/Warner in spite of their own mismanagement and outdated business model. I don't mind these companies trying to make a buck, so long as they're doing it through legal means and trying to satisfy a real market. However, they absolutely should not be bringing copyright infringement suites against P2P people or engaging in anti-competitive practices. Given their behavior over the past few years, they should be investigated for things like price-fixing and racketeering.

      That's my only beef. So if these companies insist on abusing their own customers, then it doesn't hurt my feelings to see them suffer and go out of business because of it.

    2. Re:Exactly ... by ianare · · Score: 1

      True, in the end it does all come down to whether or not you like it. A lot of contemporary "art for art's sake" I personally find to be hideous. But when the prime motivator is greed and money, you are much more likely to see exactly the type of behavior you (and I) are opposed to. If they were more concerned about making good music and sharing it with others, the internet and P2P would be seen as a great way to share with even more people, rather than something that needs to be restricted and persecuted.

  62. Music As Entertainment Time? by sherriw · · Score: 1

    I agree with the many insightful posts which have observed that this is just a shift and the industry will be leaner and better than ever. The desire for music will never go away.

    But, isn't there also a bit of a downturn in how much people are willing to spend on music, simply because it's not a cornerstone of their hobbies anymore? I know that for myself I never just sit and ONLY listen to music. I'm on the web, watching TV, movie, reading a book, etc. Most of my music time is in my car, when I listen to the radio. The rest of the time, music is either a bother to what I'm doing (reading), or it's just background music in which case the radio is just fine. I no longer pop in an album and just sit and listen to it. So the value of music, to me, has been reduced to some vaguely noticed background noise and entertainment for when I drive. So it's no longer something I'm willing to pay much, if anything for. The radio is free. And the few REALLY good songs I want for my mp3 player or to keep on my computer, I'm not willing to buy the whole album to get it. Nor am I willing to pay $1 per song.

    These days we have many more options of what to do in our free time. I'm not going to pay for music until it becomes closer to 25 cents per song. Even then, it better be a really good song, and better be DRM free.

  63. Full Circle by LowG1974 · · Score: 1

    This is similar to the time when recorded music began being sold, or when radio started playing recorded music. Everyone was convinced that live performances would die out, and concerts would lose to recording studio sessions. It didn't happen of course, nor will the death of the "music industry" (though more appropriately TFA should be referring to as the "recording industry"). The industry has been changing over the course of the last several years, and will continue to do so.

    I also agree with the earlier posts that said the reason for decreased CD sales is due to lower quality content. I have been burned far too many times by buying an entire CD and finding that the only songs I like are the two or three I've heard on the radio. I think if the recording studios want to keep selling CDs/records/albums, they will need to put out content that stands together as a piece of performance art, not a compilation of singles. Great examples of this (for me anyway) include Pearl Jam's Ten, Pink Floyd's The Wall, or even Fiona Apple's Tidal, all of which in my opinion are greater as an album than as a sum of their individual songs.

    --
    there is no spoon. or fork. there is a butter knife, and it's dull.
  64. One more reason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    3. To act as a filter. Few people have the time to sift out which acts are good and which are not. It is this case where the industry has failed most miserably.

    1. Re:One more reason by wcb4 · · Score: 1

      but along with the net being a fantastic low cost music distribution network, the social aspects of the net can also remove the need for the industry as filter. It is correct that I do not have time to sift through the garbage, but some of my friends with similar music tastes might. Social Networking might be the way around the need for filtering.

      --
      I reject your reality ... and substitute my own.
    2. Re:One more reason by Perl-Pusher · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Your confusing the record label and media. Streaming sites such as you and satellite radio are taking the place of conventional media. The public needs to be told 'what is hip' at least to a degree. Your filtering has been done by DJ's , your friends and TV for years. I think that is what the music industry will eventually be. The marketing filter. Notice how TV shows are telling you where to get the music heard on the show. What eventually morphs out of all this has the potential of being either the greatest thing to happen to musicians, or that the amount of choices gets so great that many artists offerings get never get noticed. Basically nothing new. That has always been a problem. Even with the thousands trying to get 'discovered' few actually do. Many painters and writers die before being proclaimed a genius and never see the millions generated by their inspiration and talent.

    3. Re:One more reason by Pie-rate · · Score: 1

      They don't even have to be your friends.
      Good music would quickly get widespread attention from the masses. All you'd have to do is browse a forum occasionally. Good music would float to the top, bad music sinks into obscurity.

    4. Re:One more reason by zymurgyboy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Good music would quickly get widespread attention from the masses. All you'd have to do is browse a forum occasionally. Good music would float to the top, bad music sinks into obscurity.
      Popular music would float to the top, sure, but popular and good are not equivalent concepts. Like free jazz much? Some of it is excellent, but none of it is popular.

      At least the Internet music distribution model makes it more likely obscure bits of music will remain in the available catalog... something that's a huge problem in the present paradigm.

      --
      If you never make mistakes, it's probably because you're not doing anything.
    5. Re:One more reason by bckrispi · · Score: 1

      Popular music would float to the top, sure, but popular and good are not equivalent concepts. Like free jazz much? Some of it is excellent, but none of it is popular.
      I would argue that among Jazz fans, some of these artists would do quite well. Jazz aficionados pay for music just like anyone else.
      --
      Xenon, where's my money? -Borno
    6. Re:One more reason by looseSpark · · Score: 1

      Of course, if you wanted good free jazz you could go to a jazz website/forum and link with free jazz lovers in social networks where the good free jazz would likely float to the top. Same for other genres. Even if you don't like the taste of the community at one site you could quite easily find one that does share your tastes. The Internet opens your options right up.

      Internet distribution beats label distribution in almost every way IMO - the only exception being perhaps being the availability of large upfront payments for new artists, but even this is changing with venture capitalists beginning to look at independent music artists in much the same way as they would look at any other dotcom start-up. After all, an artist distributing their music from their own website is not very different to a dotcom company. With moves already afoot by some visionaries and established musicians to popularize this practice, I see little room for recording labels in their current form in the future.

    7. Re:One more reason by fastest+fascist · · Score: 1

      That's why a global audience is a good thing. Free jazz definitely doesn't have a big listener base if you compare it to some other genres, but when you have a very large potential audience, then if 1% of people are interested in a genre, that still makes for a while lot of listeners. As long as it's easy to find the kinds of cliques who listen to music you like, having a forum (or torrent site...) as a medium for distributing music is quite workable in terms of finding good, obscure music.

    8. Re:One more reason by antiMStroll · · Score: 1

      Call me nuts, but computers can filter better than the clowns shoving recent popular acts down our throats. I find the music I like via socially driven and filtered avenues such as Usenet, not the Billboard 100.

    9. Re:One more reason by Pie-rate · · Score: 1

      Popular music would float to the top, sure, but popular and good are not equivalent concepts. Like free jazz much? Some of it is excellent, but none of it is popular.
      So you go to a forum or website that rates the music genre you like. Overall popularity is how things work in a free market as well, if anything free jazz would be easier to find on the Internet than it would in a free market.

  65. This should not be a really difficult question.... by Xodmoe · · Score: 1

    ...but why does music require an "industry" anyway?

    We shouldn't even really need guitars (though I do, myself, along with amps, pedals, etc.), but people can just get together and sing, right?

  66. Re:Still not getting it, are you?...YOUR ON CRACK by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "You have bought into the record companys' BS. Copying a song (or data or anything else) is not stealing, it is unauthorized copying."

          I dont care how you look at "copying" and the fact is "unauthorized copying" is stealing in the digital realm any way you slice it. I am not reffering to ripping a cd for your own uses but filesharing using a medium that facilitates widespread unauthorized distribution, the internet.

    Can you download or copy a car?
    How about a house?
    How about a winter coat?

          Of course you cant but if you were to obtain the original or a copy of those items above without payment/licensing you would be charged with theft and jailed.

          Because 1 song is a lowly few meg of data easily and freely traded withhout any sort of regulation, that makes it ok?

    This is where the crack comes in and my observation is not the RIAA definition of stealing...IT IS THE DEFINITION OF STEALING!

    Wake Up and dont reason it otherwise while you make excuses like...
    2 out of the 12 tracks are the only good ones
    rock/rap stars and exec's make too much money
    the industry was slow to adopt downloading

          None of those excuses or others justify obtaining someone elses property without compensation to the property owner and is stealing if then made available to the WORLD.

  67. Has anyone gotten any SACD discs? by Serge_Tomiko · · Score: 1

    When I found out my PS3 could play them, I picked up several classical and jazz albums in SACD format. The sound quality is remarkable, and the surround sound in several cases really replicates the sound of a live hall.

    I wish the music industry had pushed SACD more and released less expensive players. Honestly, I didn't even know it existed until I got a PS3, so it apparently never received broad support. I think the music industry could be saved if they released high definition content at a lower price. At $19 a pop, the hybrid SACD discs just seem overpriced, but $10 a disc I think would make it easier to splurge on a couple discs a month.

  68. Promotions by cdrguru · · Score: 1

    Everyone here seems to look at the Internet as the all encompassing way to promote or learn about anything. Well, that would be true if the penetration of the Internet was 100%. It isn't. Not by a long shot. The US isn't 100% broadband capable, meaning there are places where you just can't get anything better than dialup. Satellite is going to work in most places, but even that is problematic and it is pretty expensive for what you get.

    The real issue with "the music industry" is promotion. When it dies - as it probably will soon - music promotion goes away. There are significant numbers of people employed indirectly in this area, far more than you probably think. There will be a sizable economic impact, especially in larger cities. There will also be side effects, such as music format radio stations and a number of "trade" publications just folding up.

    Advertising is going to change. Today you still have publications in larger cities that are ad-supported and much of their advertising comes from music promotion in one way or another. These are publications doomed.

    I do not see a radio station that is fed what is popular trying to figure out what to play themselves. Their advertisers pay to be on a station that is "popular" and is playing "popular" music. A radio station isn't a two-way medium and trying to move to an all-request format would be a big change. Trying to research and "discover" unknown bands would be even bigger. And neither of these would be something that every music-format radio station is going to do.

    What we saw in the 1970s and 1980s was music-only format stations being replaced by talk radio. Why? Because it was cheaper to operate that way and looked like even more ad revenue was possible. Today talk radio is a known quantity with known ad revenues. I'd say music on radio stations is pretty much over because nobody is going to be paying to either get played or supplying stations with lists of what is popular.

    I'd say some big changes are coming.

  69. I'm confused... by dkarma · · Score: 0

    HOW are the music labels LOSING MONEY?!?!?!
    Let me get this straight. They no longer have to make CD's to sell tracks.
    The CD is costing them around 1.00 to make and sells for 18.00 for a major performer in most mall music stores.
    When customers buy music online the industry pays literally NOTHING to get that music to the consumer. They only have to copy a track
    that is already on someone else's (itunes) storage.
    Sure people are buying less music (ie: one or five tracks off of an album, but there are still those who buy entire albums off of itunes and the like.
    at 1$ or more per track they're still making 10-16 dollars if someone buys the whole album online and NO PRODUCTION COSTS!
    I ask again how are they losing money? Either they're complete idiots or they are whiny liars.
    Either way no pity from me.

  70. Try being a business for a change by morcego · · Score: 1

    And I really mean it.

    So they are making less money ? Wow. No longer outrageous profits ?

    Here is a very nice idea. I think I'll even patent it: try cutting your costs.

    Start with the salaries and bonuses of those big executives.

    How about trying to promote real musicians instead of teenager "fake-virgin" girls with crappy songs and nothing inside their heads ? I'll tell you another secret: real, good music is easier to sell than crappy songs. It is cheaper for you. Less costs = more profits.

    I wonder it this was too much for them, and their brains is coming out of their noses with all these revolutionary theories I presented here. Well, at least I hope thats their brains. Hard to tell, really.

    --
    morcego
  71. NPR FTW by PaulMorel · · Score: 0, Troll

    I agree with you 100%. I listen to 3 stations here in Pittsburgh. The NPR affiliate that plays jazz, the NPR affiliate that plays classical, and the NPR affiliate that plays indie/folky music. I get so angry when someone tries to cut NPR's funding.

    --
    burrocrisy
    and that would be what? Ruling by jackasses? Never has a slashdot misspelling been more apropos
  72. Is Mastering and Mixing a value add? by gklue · · Score: 1

    Sure you can get a lot of recording equipment that sounds pretty good, but what about the rest of the process? No matter what kind of music it is, you'll most likely have to compress it and mix it right to have it sound good. Remember that most listening environments don't have a listening dynamic range as large as the recording studio. So, how well will a badly mixed or mastered song do? Music in the 70's was greatly compressed (take a listen to Aerosmith's Toys in the Attic on CD not remastered, or listen to the album on tape or LP).

  73. I dunno... by seven+of+five · · Score: 1

    While this is a tempting line of thought, there are downsides. Record Labels do the marketing and distribution so the really good artists can get exposure. The more money the labels make, the more risk money they have for new unknown acts. Less money = more conservative, safer acts. And yes, I know, this was before every major label was supposed to be a cash cow for a media conglomerate. That, not the internet, is probably the major cause of their downfall: loss of connection to the artists & audience, too much focus on profitability.

    Now in the internet age a musician's competing for attention with 10^8 other musicians. Even if they're terrific, what's their chance of standing out? And without the labels you get to do your own marketing. Yay. So the musician's now spending 80% of their time and money on trying to stand out instead of making music. If they're already famous that's less of a problem, but I imagine it makes the scene less attractive to some that are just getting into the music business.

  74. You're all Missing The Point by Rock+Biter · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It's not as if there is any shortage of talent out there- it's just that the only music you're ever going to hear is the mass-produced garbage that record execs think is trendy. Listen to any radio station in america and you'll notice they're playing a loop of the same 10 or 12 songs, over and over, day and night, for weeks on end. The radio stations are told what to play by the record labels. Recording equipment is cheap enough that any band who wants to record can do so, for at most a few thousand dollars. What the industry provides is *promotion*. TV ads, time on MTV, radio time- these are the things only industry insiders can get. Since they only pick a few acts every year in a genre for the royal treatment, they have to have a guarantee that every one will be a hit, which means they can't take chances on music that is different from the mainstream. So the music on the radio gets more inoffensive, unoriginal, and boring every year. If the record industry were to collapse tomorrow, it be would cause for celebration. It would certainly not affect the average touring band, and it wouldn't mean that musical innovation would suffer- the streets of america are flooded with good music and talented acts, and the big labels are simply not interested. What the world needs is more local labels, more promotion for the music that is out there and not being heard. MP3 and digital music formats are an excellent way to accomplish this. I say let the big labels burn! It's long overdue.

  75. Right, which is why there are millions of download by maillemaker · · Score: 1

    I always smirk when I see the statement, "The real reason the music industry is dying is because of the crap they have been putting out."

    Right. It so crappy that people are tripping over themselves to rip it, publish it, and download it, by the millions upon millions.

    The reason the music industry is dying is because THE PRODUCT IS NOW AVAILABLE FOR FREE. Period.

    --
    A work that expires before its copyright never enters the public domain and thus enjoys eternal copyright protection.
  76. There aren't any by Weaselmancer · · Score: 1

    Thanks to ClearChannel. They're all the same radio station now. And it sucks. The same stuff over and over and over and over and over. The other 50% of the time it's commercials. The music to commercial ratio is so bad I wouldn't listen even if they played good music.

    I can't stand the radio anymore.

    --
    Weaselmancer
    rediculous.
  77. No... by Mahjub+Sa'aden · · Score: 1

    I've listened to everything Glass has ever put on vinyl/cd/the internet, seen him live playing piano, seen his pieces performed live, watched the films he's scored: you name it, I've heard it. And I can say categorically that he doesn't use silence, and in fact seems to hate silence. Maybe in his earliest minimalist phase, maybe then, but otherwise, absolutely not under any circumstance could Philip Glass be said to use silence.

    --
    What is is all that is. Isn't that obvious?
  78. The agent by SmallFurryCreature · · Score: 1

    Tours are done by the agent, not the record company. Most of what you ask is done by the agent/manager of a band. Try to learn a little bit more about how the music industry works please.

    --

    MMO Quests are like orgasms:

    You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.

    1. Re:The agent by ImpShial · · Score: 1

      So who funds the tours? Is it only the advertisers?

      --
      I gave up religion for Lent.
    2. Re:The agent by Firethorn · · Score: 1

      The tours are generally a profit maker. So it'd be the fans funding the tours. In the case of funding stuff before ticket monies are available, that's what investors(backers) would be for.

      The band's a business. They hire somebody to do an IPO for them or something. There's also nothing preventing a theater from operating on credit for the concert. While it would increase the theater's risk, it might help get booking. Have the theater operate the ticketing booth and collect the cash with a clause in the contract that they get paid from those monies first.

      --
      I don't read AC A human right
    3. Re:The agent by DustyShadow · · Score: 1

      The labels can still fund tours. Tours expensive unlike what the guy above me said. For example, renting a bus is at least $1000 a week. That might seem low for a large act but for a band who is just starting out, it is a lot of money and they'll need help from the label to do it.

  79. Re:You're all Missing The Point.WRONG and right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You make some good points but have missed one...shrinkage!

          No not of the George Constanza sort.

    "Since they only pick a few acts every year in a genre for the royal treatment, they have to have a guarantee that every one will be a hit, which means they can't take chances on music that is different from the mainstream."

          They cant take chances because they are losing revenue in many ways but mostly due to the fact that todays file sharing, which is effectively stealing, is incredibly efficient and without consequence to the perps and has reduced revenues by an amount that is ushering in something unknown, piracy to the degree it exists today versus the deterents and difficulty to perpetrate piracy in the analog days.

          You can argue all day and all of the night to paraphrase the kinks but you cannot reason out the most obvious fact that file sharing is akin to giving product away and what business model is built on that?

          None that survive anyway and so what you have is this new generation of music shoplifters who reason it away with all sorts of moral equivalence that never mention the simple fact and is evidenced over and over here, file sharing is stealing.

          In any industry that offers a diverse product, not all products make money but the ones that do provide for continued product development and profit for themselves and even those that dont until they are improved or dropped.

    LOSS of product via file sharing = loss of profit = a shrinking industry with even less chances taken

    This is in no way excusing the industry but is pure and simple economics and if you believe otherwise, you are part of the problem.

  80. technically, it should be 'record companies' by avi33 · · Score: 1

    Maybe this just nitpicking the title and not the article (haven't reg'd to RTFA myself), but the "music industry" will continue, albeit in varied forms. The *record companies* will either change drastically (hint: offering DRM-free downloads is not drastic enough) or die and have their IP bought by a company that gets it.

    What ought to happen is what's happened to TV/Internet. Let the users have *everything* for $50/month. By "everything" I mean links to a library of every freaking song ever recorded. Not EMI's for $12/month and Colombia's for $10/month, and only on one device per household at a time...but a "base package" with a few premium catalogs a la carte for a couple dollars.

    Every. Freaking. Song. Ever.

    Then let the consumer play it on home stereo systems, computers, iPods, cars, phones, and watches if they want. Find an innovative way to filter it, whether it's XM-style channels, or collaboratively (people who made playlists similar to yours like the following bands that you haven't heard of).

    I'm sure once upon a time some MBA said "No one is going to pay $50/month for TV. TV is Free!" Yet here we are. Do the same with music. Some people are gonna steal it, but an army of PhDs hasn't figured out how to stop that from happening, so they're gonna steal anyway. Make a legal way to let the masses access everything with little fuss, and plenty of people will take them up on it.

    Sadly, the record companies will never agree to it. Perhaps one day when they can be bought for pennies on the dollar, some company with cash and vision (google) will do it right.

    1. Re:technically, it should be 'record companies' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The one flaw in your argument is its comparison to cable tv and any monthly subnscription based service.

            Who says that pricing strategy is fair in the first place in that you may get what YOU dont want and are paying for it. Its just the way it is and the nature of that medium makes it more logical to derive its revenue from advertising rather than the sale and ultimate ownership of a produced work to the targeted audience.

            The music industry (to the industry itself) is about producing product and selling ownership of said product, not derving revenue from advertising while product is on display, thats radio and as you can see, is dwarfed profit wise by musical work sales.

            The monthly cable subscription fees do not represent anything substantial in comparison to advertising revenues to the originaters of content. If content originators relied on monthly fees alone, the great music that has come to pass would have never have happened.

      Sorry one size does not fit all.

          Way back when cd burners and ripping software became available many compared that to the day when the vcr became available and said "see..the vcr did not kill the industry" so this is ok.

            But the difference was, analog duplication is inferior and digital allows anyone to make a master quality copy thus facilitating piracy on a grand scale.

            It should have been reigned in then and its still not too late nor is it fair to reason away an industry and those who derive an income via, to the whims of a greedy public who feel they should not pay for a produced work.

      Radiohead is wrong and would be nobody if they were not an established act and its that sort of idiocy that is the death knell of an industry and it will not be industry greed that kills art, it will be the non-buying public.

      Sorry the truth hurts

  81. Re:Right, which is why there are millions of downl by tbannist · · Score: 1

    You're all idiots.

    The music industry has been pushing crap for decades.

    I seriously doubt the music industry is "dying". As far as I understand their sales are slipping a bit from the last media upgrade cycle, but that's not surprising. Their sales have also been off a bit because of a large pool of not very good music they've been pushing. They'be been trying to boost profits by widening the appeal of individuals CDs so they can sell more of individual CDs and produce fewer CDs per year.

    Now, the important thing to remember is that profit != revenue. You have to expect revenues to fall as the music industry moves from physical to digital distribution. Why? Because costs have dropped. There's no little plastic case for the music, no plastic wrap, no fuel costs for shipping, no boxes to put the CDs in, no broken CDs because of accidents during shipping. There are fewer middle-men and the new middle-men are cheaper than the old ones. Think of it this way: when a CD sold for $15 with 15 tracks, the record label got less than $15 from that sale. Now they get close to $0.60 for each track from iTunes. But their fixed costs and marginal costs are much, much lower.

    I sincerely doubt the record labels are going to die, they're just loosing the barriers to entry that prevented competitors from entering the market. As other people have said, they can be the one-stop turnkey solution for recording, promotion and digital distribution. They just have to get used to selling individual songs instead of full cds, and developing effective niche marketing strategies. In reality the digital distribution revolution opens up some new economies of scale.

    Profits are likely to decline in the short term while they adjust the new environment and while up and new entrants will be snagging sections of the market that the old behemoths aren't adaptive enough to nail down. It's a loss of prestige and power but it's only going to result in the death of a record label if they decide to fight the changes to the bitter end.

    --
    Fanatically anti-fanatical
  82. We don't need RIAA to filter... by tshak · · Score: 0

    ...that's what DJ's are for.

    --

    There is no longer anything that can be done with computers that is nontrivial and clearly legal. -- Paul Phillips
  83. not going anywhere... by Sir+Holo · · Score: 1


    They're not going anywhere for a long while.

    They own copyright to the last 70 years' worth of popular music.

  84. Business as usual, or not by rjschwarz · · Score: 1

    Perhaps if they could hire artists that produced a number of hit singles instead of one or two and the rest as filler they'd make more money. Increasing quality is a time-proven answer to competition. Perhaps if they cut back on the price they charge for a cds some folks would return to buying cds with their higher sound quality. Decreasing costs is a time-proven answer to competition. Perhaps if they stopped signing artists to multi-album deals that inevitably kill their creativity (Prince, George Michael, Michael Jackson). Cutting stupid expenses is a time-proven answer to competition. Why the music industry thinks that regular business practices don't apply to them escapes me.

  85. Ridiculous by Orig_Club_Soda · · Score: 1

    The music industry is still in the BLACK. Profitable. They are making less profits, but still doing fine. They are not about to collapse. Posting this article is an insult to Slashdot's integrity.

    Additionally, who logs in to iTunes and buys just one song? Personally I am spending more now that I can choose. This article is a joke.

  86. $1 a song by Sgs-Cruz · · Score: 1

    It seems to me that the only reason the industry would be scared of tracks selling individually for $1/song is because they have built a nice business around selling CDs with 10 filler songs and 2 catchy ones for $15. I can't imagine buying the catchiest half of "In The Aeroplane Over The Sea" even if it saved me $6, but I'd happily buy just one or two songs from either of Snow Patrol's latest two albums.

    --

    Karma: pi (Mostly due to circular reasoning in posts).

  87. Demonbaby said it best: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Demonbaby said it best:

    For the major labels, it's over. It's fucking over. You're going to burn to the fucking ground, and we're all going to dance around the fire. And it's your own fault.

  88. Just like iTunes saved the record industry? by GingerDog · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'm not sure there would be all that much of a loss to the record industry by not selling physical CDs.

    Retail shops (amazon, hmv etc) are going to take perhaps a 20% cut from the retail price. Then there's the physical cost of shipping, CD duplication and printing... so perhaps there's about $6-7 going back to the record company - that's $6-7 for 10-12 songs.

    Or on iTunes - 10-12 songs cost around 10-12 dollars.

    Presumably the costs of distribution are quite low on iTunes - after all there is no physical product or shop, and minimal staffing needs.

    Which looks 'better' from a record industry point of view?

    They're able to sell random old songs, and suffer (I presume) no limitations of keeping physical stock. Customers can pick random tracks and buy them as they see fit - classic long tail stuff. My hunch is that people will buy the same number of tracks (or spend the same amount on music at least) regardless of whether they're going for digital or 'hard copy' stuff... they just get to buy a better range for their money when it's digital.

    --
    The Ginger Dog
  89. LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE! by ryanisflyboy · · Score: 1

    All she is doing is trying to raise two kids! You are putting her out on the street! How dare anyone out there make fun of Britney. You are STEALING her music! All she asks is $15 for one of her CDs. That's nothing to you! She only has several million dollars, no thanks to you pirates out there! So leave Britney alone, okay?!?

    *sob*

    *sob*

  90. Re:One more reason - Other professions. by trout007 · · Score: 1

    The music industry isn't going anywhere the recording industry is what is going away. This isn't the first time an occupation has disappeared becuase of progress. I am a Mechanical Engineer. In the old (1960's) ME's had a whole support staff of drafters, analysts, computers (human job not machine), tech writers, modelers, ect. Today most of these functions are handled with software to make us more efficient. I can now make my own CAD models even though I can't draw to save my life. I can use Stress FEA packages to check my hand calcs which saves the analysts time because the designs are (should) be better by the time they get them. The same thing here. Software and Hardware engineers have unleashed the creative people whether they are artists, engineers, musicians, industrial designers, ect to do more with fewer assistants then ever before. The same is true here. Musicians can create their own work without editors, producers, distributers.

    --
    I love Jesus, except for his foreign policy.
  91. Welcome to supply and demand! by Digestromath · · Score: 1
    Short of using it for fertilizer and German pornography, nobody really wants to buy crap. Music labels are used to cranking out one or two decent singles and using them to sell a whole CD. Because we are fickle consumers, and no longer want to buy 10 units of crap for every 1 unit of decent music the whole industry is tanking.

    Imagine if McDonalds only sold meals, no individual items. And each meal came with your burger, fries, drink and a generous portion of steamed cabbage. Nobody wants the steamed cabbage, but you pay for it becuase you want the rest. Do you honestly think that model would work forever?

  92. It's too late by Rix · · Score: 1

    If they'd created something along the lines of iTunes without DRM in the late 90's, it might have done what video rental did for film studios.

    They didn't.

    We've had free music for over a decade, and I for one have absolutely no inclination to start paying now. I'd probably be willing to pay if I could be assured that all the proceeds went to the artists, but otherwise I wouldn't even consider it.

  93. FUD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And even if there is some truth to it, then too fucking bad. The "music" industry is why music sucks, they fought against innovation and now they can't compete. Because of new technology musicians no longer need their services (read that as opression and theft because they routinely steal and defraud musicians, but then they sue at the drop of a hat if someone gets something over them).

    I'm sick of the music and other media industries (multi-billon dollars) trying to limit and hamper the developement of the IT industry (a multi-trillon dollars). Technology is the future and these troglodyte mafia-esque assholes are trying to cripple our whole culture by perminately privatizing our culture and trying to smash the development of new communication and consuption technologies. It is pathetic, these fuckers need to hurry up and die!

  94. Past predictions? by hugorxufl · · Score: 1

    Was this the same researcher who said Apple was on its last legs in the late 90s?

  95. Consider this : by DiEx-15 · · Score: 1

    Here is the problem with the music industry to think about:
    1) Most of the music made today sucks massive donkey balls. I say "most" not "all". I know people have a variety of tastes, but honestly - has there been any major hits and songs you MUST have?
    2) In today's age, I don't have to buy a CD to get a song I love. I can just by the song and that is that. I don't have to buy a CD full of other songs that either suck or I have no interest in. THAT is why CD sales and the industry is dying. Nobody is buying a CD full of crap just to get a song that is half ass decent.
    3) The RIAA has pretty much done a fine ass job of shooting itself in the foot. Guess by showing the world that music is about MONEY and not EXPRESSION has painted a pretty picture about all artists, huh?

  96. Am I daft or what? by vuffi_raa · · Score: 1

    CDs for $10 or $15 a pop. Increasingly, they're buying songs at about $1 apiece instead if the average album is 12-15 tracks and your media cost is $0- how is $1 a song (or for those bad at math... $12-$15) a loss compared to selling cd's?- especially when costs sold through CD distribution earn about $7 per CD to the record company (gross, about $4 net)unless they just decided to smoke crack during online distribution contract negotiations.
    it seems to me that a company would be able to crank the price down to $.75 or $.80 per song and still break the same profit on a per album purchase while still giving nearly 50% of the purchase price to the retailer since you cut out production, shipping, in store marketing and relations, etc.
  97. Do labels offer real value today? by wikinerd · · Score: 1

    My understanding is that, for a $1 iTunes download, the breakdown looks something like this: $.75 - Label $.20 - Apple $.05 - Artist

    Supposedly when money changes hands, it's either a donation or a mutual transfer of value (company gives value in terms of services, client gives value in terms of money). I can clearly see that the artist provides lots of value so they do deserve to get lots of money. I can also see that Apple also provides some value for the platform, albeit not as much as the artist's. But I honestly fail to see what kind of value the label offers in the modern marketplace. I can understand that labels were useful before the Internet, but in the modern era a good artist could earn their money just by selling their stuff online and getting paid through PayPal (or preferably a smaller similar service). So, my best understanding is that labels have an obsolete business model, and offer no real value in the marketplace anymore. Giving money to someone who does not earn their business by offering real value or is in no real need for it (donation) is an act contrary to the basis of the free market. When you give money to someone who provides no value and it's not a donation, you are actively damaging the economy. The consumer also shares responsibility for the overall effectiveness of the free market: Consumers must understand who offers true value in the marketplace and only buy from them. If consumers buy from companies and people that do not offer real value, then they encourage this practice more and in the end this damages the economy and the well-being of all the humanity. According to my understanding, businesses that offer no real value resort to government-granted monopolies or sponsor laws that enable them to continue trolling the marketplace, and this is bad for genuine entrepreneurs who wish to offer real value.

  98. Hoist on their own petard by Joce640k · · Score: 1

    They built their entire business model around the "one-good-song-per-CD-and-hype-like-crazy" business model, now they're complaining that we only buy that one song?

    Somebody pass me the tiny violin...

    --
    No sig today...