Slashdot Mirror
Helium Crisis Approaching
vrmlguy writes "Within nine years the National Helium Reserve will be depleted, according to an article in Science Daily. It quotes Dr. Lee Sobotka, of Washington University in St. Louis: 'Helium is non-renewable and irreplaceable. Its properties are unique and unlike hydrocarbon fuels (natural gas or oil), there are no biosynthetic ways to make an alternative to helium. All should make better efforts to recycle it.' (The St. Louis Post-Dispatch has a local article with quotes from Dr. Sobotka and representatives of the balloon industry.) On Earth, Helium is found mixed with natural gas, but few producers capture it. Extracting it from the atmosphere is not cost-effective. The US created a stockpile, the National Helium Reserve, in 1925 for use by military dirigibles, but stopped stockpiling it in 1995 as a cost-saving measure."
Oh, no!
does this mean all the party balloons will be filled with hydrogen instead?
oh the humanity!
Remember to spell 'crisis' as 'business opportunity'.
Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
Then it does seem a waste to use it on those toy balloons as it's almost a sure thing the helium will be "lost".
:).
Well as it gets scarce the prices will go up. Maybe some people should start hoarding now
Let's get high!
Children's parties will never be the same.
lemonade was a popular drink and it still is
So, what you're saying is, basically, that if you use $product, and stop buying more of $product, you eventually run out of $product?
Amazing!
Build a refinery.
If you haven't made a developer cry, you've wasted a day.
Want to replace the helium lost and create cleaner, more abundant energy? Now is a good time to pour some more money into fusion research to try and get over the hump and create sustainable fusion reactions.
GetOuttaMySpace - The Anti-Social Network
Could someone please explain how exactly is there a crisis? I mean, the article states that the only thing that is happening is that the US national helium reserve is being depleted, an artificial stockpile program that stopped stockpiling due to being too expensive. Then it is stated that there are plenty sources of helium but no one bothers to take advantage of them due to the fact that at the moment it simply does not make anyone any money. So, to sum things up, no one bothers to store helium because it isn't cost effective and no one bothers to mine helium because there isn't any money to be made by it.
Doesn't that mean that the offer outweighs the demand by a landslide? Doesn't this mean that there were a lot of people smooching the US national helium reserve for a long time?
Slashdot, fix your code or at least hire someone who is competent at it to do it for you.
damn. there goes my billionaire sky yacht. damn those pesky kids and their party tricks.... damn them.
At least it will be easier to get rid of politicians in the future.
Just toss a lighted cigarette in the room. Let the balloons do the rest.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
It's not the End of the World, but you can see it from here, and if we're not careful Things Could Go Poorly. The problem is the smartest people around think "technology" will fix the "resource" problem. Given unlimited energy and resources, perhaps this is true, but we don't live in a world where there are unlimited resources. So, if we're at the top of the heap - look around you: this is as good as it gets.
RS
Shoes for Industry. Shoes for the Dead.
... not only of a looming Helium shortage - just google for "Aluminum Shortage" and take a look at the results... many resources on earth are becoming more and more scarce while everybody seems to only concentrate on energy resources.
That, my friends is one of the best reasons for putting money into space exploration rather than wars for oil. We're still far from being able to actually mine anything that's not already on our planet, but we're not so far from a shortage in the critical resources that would make extraterrestrial retrieval of resources possible in the first place.
With Helium it's actually a matter of re-using what we have - gas recycling hasn't been much of an issue in the past, but people need to hear about it. And please don't throw 'statistical evidence' at me that suggests 'there is no crisis'. Even the potential crisis is enough to be worried about it, if the implications are that dramatic. Much of our economical and scientific growth currently depends on the reckless abuse of non-renewable (or non-renewed) resources. We don't want to break Moore's Law, do we?
I'm an infovore...
I commented about this the other day, and I was surprised at the comments that indicated that so many ppl did not realize that we are headed for issues on this. I only hope that we start recapturing it again. Since Natural gas prices have gone up, we have quit separating it. Combine that with Clinton having opened up the store, and we are losing our massive stockpile. Instead countries like Russia and China do it. IOW, the west is about to be dependent on countries on other countries.
BTW, folks, helium is looked at for a number of important uses esp nuclear power, medical, and welding.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Extracting it from the atmosphere is not cost-effective
Not now, but as the availability goes down and focus turns to finding ways to extract helium more efficiently, along with a sharp price rise, then the incipient profit involved in extraction will likely create a market for atmospheric or some other method of extraction... or perhaps lead to the future ability to synthesise helium.
My question: can any science-types here list some important uses of helium? I'm sure that there are some, but I can't think of any off the top of my head.
Subject says it all.
is Helium like the second most common element in the universe?
FTA: helium is a rebel, a loner, and it does not combine with other atoms while hydrogen does
Helium: the James Dean of elements. All by itself in the upper right hand corner of the periodic table.
Which I guess makes hydrogen the Paris Hilton of elements? Alone at the top??
Why oh why couldn't I have been a science journalist...
Companies are already looking at scavenging raw materials out of recycled industrial (or even consumer) waste. As we are able to extract less through mining, we may look more at extracting (what may be in the future) semi-precious metals through various forms of recycling. Already a lot of companies are springing up around this concept, and some are even making decent bucks. As availability through mining starts to fall short, I'd expect to see an increase in price followed by availability picking up again to some extent through re-use.
This may be a pretty damn cool use for bio-science too, as I seem to remember articles about modified plants that could be placed about areas such as garbage dumps etc and absorb various metallic minerals from the ground. Maybe one day we'll see people growing trees of copper and aluminum over previous landfills, leeching bits of once-discarded waste metals from the ground.
I wouldn't say that the lack of raw materials shouldn't be a concern, but in the perhaps it will actually force society to view such things as less "disposable" and further the science and industry of re-use in the future.
TFA says few natural gas producers recover the helium from their wells. If the price of helium rises due to scarcity, those producers will recover the helium. Problem solved.
If the price increases enough every natural gas producer will separate helium. This will postpone the problem until we run out of natural gas, possibly 30 to 50 years away. I am sure that when the western world runs out of these resources our previous fair dealings with the Arab world and Eastern Europe will help us negotiate some fair deals.
there is going to be a lot of angry & sad clowns...
Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
I've heard that Thorazine can be quite helpful for people like you. Ask your doctor.
Mining on remote planets is risky, as bringing all that extra material to Earth will increase it's weight, thereby shifting the Earth's place in our galaxy, making it move slower. With increased mass and gravity we will be drawn into a new orbit in the direction of the sun, adding to GLOBAL WARMING!! OH NOO!!!
Yeah, I'm a cynic...
To Terminate, or not to Terminate, that's the question - SCSIROB
It's so funny that you said that because I already do fill my balloons with hydrogen. I go to a dollar store and get helium-quality balloons and then fill them with hydrogen from my hydrogen generator. Now, I don't have kids yet and never threw a kids' birthday party...that would be different, I'd either have to spend $10000000 on helium, or I'll spend like half that and buy all the kids flame-retardant blast suits.
HA! Better blow out those candles fast!! OMGosh!
There is a helluva lot of helium on the Moon. Moon ground is soaked in helium if I may say so. May be this will give another boost to space program? And remember the Chinese are going to build a moon base. Prepare to buy helium from China.
Have any of them there Ay-rabs got any? Just asking.
Only three things are certain; death, taxes, and apocryphal quotations - Ben Franklin.
At least now they're not going to make another Alvin and the Chipmunks movie.
Jenny's got a new number! 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
"It's easy to consume and throw away things if you don't think there will be a problem in getting more, and that attitude is pretty wasteful."
Ok fellow geeks, save your sperm.
Two important points about helium
1. It's the smallest atom/molecule, since hydrogen is diatomic and H2 is a bit bigger than He. This makes it more difficult to store as it can get through any holes in a container
2. It escapes from the atmosphere. So, once it's out of the container it goes into outer space and is gone forever.
Extracting [Helium] from the atmosphere is not cost-effective. The US [...] stopped stockpiling it in 1995 as a cost-saving measure.
Not cost-effective, eh? Well, in nine years, it will be! When your options are to use hydrogen, or tro to convince your friendly neighbourhood refinery to start capturing helium, then it will darn well be cost-effective to buy my extracted-from-the-sky-and-stockpiled-in-my-bunker helium instead...
"Good news, everyone!"
I guess I'm a science type.
Liquid helium is used as a coolant, much like liquid nitrogen. However, the boiling point of helium is 4.2 Kelvin, rather than the 77 Kelvin for nitrogen.
Sometimes scientists need to be able to make things that cold. For instance, solid state physicists doing experiments with superconductivity, a phenomenon that only manifests at low temperatures. If that's a little too abstract for you, consider this - the superconducting magnets in MRI machines need liquid helium to work.
The issue is reclamation, not from the atmosphere but from the machines themselves. In the lab I worked in whenever possible we would reclaim the helium and reliquify it. There are two problems, however. One, the mass of a helium atom is so light that it can escape from the Earth's gravitational pull - so once it evaporates, it's GONE. Two, helium atoms are tiny, fiddly little buggers that can find their way out of almost anything.
Right now our helium comes from our oil caches, IIRC it was built up there through millions of years of radioactive decay of isotopes that happened to be in organic molecules. Unless we discover cheap fusion by the time that built-up supply runs out, we'll just have whatever is being generated by present-day radioactive decay. Which is a sloooooooow process.
"Live as if you'll die tomorrow." Ridiculous. You could die later today.
Whatever happened to nuclear fusion? Wouldn't the byproduct of a controlled fusion reaction be helium?
Borthday Balloons will get smaller every year. Soon you won't be able to get them at your local grocery store.
I personally blame the Mythbusters. What between the Raft, The several thousand balloons used to lift the kid, and the Lawn chair, they probably reduced our supply by 3 yrs alone.
OSGGFG - Open Source Gamers Guide to Free Games
Excellent. I had no idea that the US government was, effectively, subsidizing the balloon industry. Now, the price can be adjusted for supply/demand, making balloons more expensive. That should keep at least some of them out of our ponds and rivers. If people want to play fun with a non-renewable resource, and pollute to boot, let them foot their own bill.
It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
Seriously - get into a balloon filled with helium, and you will die! Therefore Helium must be poisonous.
All airships and balloons should be filled with a 80/20 nitrogen/oxygen mixture. Its' the only gas the we can be absolutely sure is safe if it seeps into the atmosphere.
suck up some more guy.
Can anyone say hydrogen? Of course hydrogen is more flammable than helium. But that only means that better methods of handling it must be created. Once the price of helium reaches the right level it will be very cost effective to employ hydrogen in those cases where its "unique" property is needed.
Of course the other way to solve this shortage is to look to the other planets in the solar system. Maybe this is the business model that will spur space exploration. Making a helium run to Jupiter might be the solution to keeping all those clowns in helium filled balloons.
I live in Amarillo, TX where the Helium plant used to be. Check to the Amarillo Globe News to find out what happened to it. They closed it for financial reasons, not lack of helium. It sold last year to a developer. Had been closed ~10 yrs or so and had not been updated for decades before then. When they built it, it was the edge of town. Town grew out to it. This is a stupid story. There is no lack of helium only a change in government policy.
This girl I once fu^H^Hdated had this crazy, mad-scientist brother who used to put on a "show" on the 4th of July which involved trash bags filled with acetylene he got from some welding place. I think he used model rocket igniters.
Anyway, he kind of won the Darwin award one dry very dry year when static electricity beat him to the punch. He only singed off the hair on his eyebrows and arms and didn't get serious burns or lose eyesight, but he quit the displays.
I'll let you into a secret. Everything is a deadly poison.
Get your own free personal location tracker
Thank goodness I still live in a world of telephones, car batteries, handguns and many things made with Helium.
Is aluminum really in that short of a supply, or is it a smelting shortage?
There was a guy on Science Friday, Jerry Woodall of Purdue, who has a process of generating hydrogen from an aluminum alloy. I heard him on Science Friday on NRP and he never mentioned any kind of worldwide shortage of aluminum, although he was largely pushing the fact that the aluminum alloy used as a catalyst in his process was completely recyclable and reusable for the same process.
I have heard there are supply problems related to aluminum smelting limitations, primarily due to the energy required -- in fact, I seem to recall that Iceland of all places is a leading refiner of aluminum due to the geothermal energy resources; its cheaper to ship the ore to Iceland and refine it and ship it out due to the immense "free" geothermal energy.
We will have to go in at nightfall and return before daybreak then.
"representatives of the balloon industry"
Oh noes! The balloons won't float any more!!!
Seriously, if that's really all we use helium for, who cares? There are a lot better things to spend tax dollars on than floating balloons (which are plastic and usually end up flying off into the atmosphere and becoming litter anyway).
I believe there is shitload of helium on the moon.
Helium-3, which is way cooler than our boring ass Earth helium.
Why dont we just take the H-3 from the moon and de cubeify it? subtract the '3'...and were set.
-I only code in BASIC.-
The USGS compiles a large quantity of useful information about mineral production and consumption, including helium:
http://minerals.usgs.gov/minerals/pubs/commodity/helium/
You can buy helium from the US government at $2.037 per cubic metre, whilst the commercial price is nearer $3 per cubic metre; adjusting that would seem to make some kind of sense, since the US has 600 million cubic metres of the stuff in Amarillo.
There are plants at Skikda in Algeria and somewhere in Qatar which aim to extract 25 million cubic metres from natural gas a year, but there have been some issues in getting them to work; both Algeria and Qatar's natural gas reserves contain about as much helium as the US total reserves do.
It is impossible to substitute for helium for cryogenics; nothing else stays liquid at that low a temperature, and the ultra-refrigerators that get to liquid helium temperatures use helium as working fluid.
I did my PhD at Nottingham University, which uses a fair amount of liquid helium; the arrangement there is that it's delivered to the MRI building at the top of the hill, and the boil-off passes through a liquifier and is used by the theoretical physicists at the bottom of the hill. I don't know what the theoretical physicists do with their boil-off; there are obvious practical problems with running piping from lots of separate labs to a central liquifier, and liquifiers are bulky and vibrating enough that you don't want to have them in the same lab as your delicate semiconductor-physics experiment.
This could only have been meant to be funny.
Modding it Interesting is probabely also a joke by the moderators.
(I know that fusion produces helium, atom by atom)
...we will have fusion reactors, spewing waste Helium, global warming will have been replaced with global swelling as the atmosphere enlarges. Polars bears will be living happily because they can use their chipmunk voices to lure baby whales closer to shore.
One crisis begets a solution which begets a different crisis.
I have been looking for references on the web and it looks as though extraction is an ongoing process, not just "taking the gas from the top". I have not found a definitive reference yet though. Have you any links?
The Sun has 80 gazillion tons of Helium in it. All we have to do is fly 93 million miles, overcome unbelievable heat and gravity, and then come right back, what's the problem?
stuff |
You go out of your way to present people with a plan how to get rid off politicians and someone comes along with an XXL ego and an S brain and starts shouting "It won't work! It won't work! They only go up!"
Of course they don't drop down. Ceiling drops down.
Sheeesh! Do I have to tell you how to do EVERYTHING?
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
"Extracting it from the atmosphere is not cost-effective." -> It soon will be! -> $$$
The easiest way to reduce our consumption of helium is to cancel the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade. Who really needs to see a 100 foot tall balloon of Underdog for the hundredth time anyway?
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Yes, nuclear fusion produces helium.
The fusion of 1kg of deuterium produces near enough 1kg of helium, and, umm, 2.7MeV per fusion * 6*10^23 atoms per mole * 500 moles of D atoms per kilogram / 2 deuteriums per fusion * 1.6e-19 joules per eV = 64.8 terajoules of energy.
So, a one-gigawatt fusion power plant would produce a kilo of helium every eighteen days; if the current electricity use of France were provided entirely by fusion plants, you'd get thirty tons a year. The large hadron collider uses 120 tons of helium, but efficiently; present planetary helium use is about seventy-five tons a day.
For comparison, the US produces from natural gas about 76 million cubic metres of helium a year; a cubic metre of helium weighs 1000/22.4*4 grams, so 76 million cubic metres weigh about fifteen thousand tons.
Nuclear actually has a pretty poor energy return on energy invested. I think we can point more towards oil and hydro as boosting available energy in the last century. One is renewable and one will run out. Fortunately, wind and solar power can scale and not be a drag the way nuclear power is. With these high quality energy sources, meeting our irreducible needs for liquid fuels should be fairly easy.
So what we're saying is that for the first time ever, it might be necessary to delete an element out of the periodic table?
Take Nobody's Word For It.
Let's see, there are in a sense two competing technologies here.
There is the technology for resource acquisition from the earth in raw form - mining, etc. This is a very gentle 'slope' meaning it can be begun by even the simplest cultures.
Then there is the technology of efficient resource RECOVERY from pre-used sources (recycling). This seems to be a much steeper slope tech, as the cost/benefit doesn't (apparently) turn positive for a very long time in a culture's development.
Both of these techs will continue to develop, of course. It may be the we are headed for a time where resource recovery - at least for several critical items - will end up being more economically viable than acquisition. It already seems to be there for some items like copper.
I appreciate the concern of the article that lost helium is irrecoverable; nevertheless it appears that quite a bit is currently going unclaimed, so there's really not a SHORTAGE. There's merely a shortage of CHEAP helium.
It may be that in the future there is a third technology: with abundant/limitless energy resources, it may become true that resource CREATION from element manipulation is cheaper/easier than either acquisition or recovery, but I'd expect this only to be true for exceedingly precious materials.
-Styopa
"I think we may have a gas leak!"
Don't just game, Dungeoneer
If you dig in the ground to get something out, it's mining. Drilling into underground reservoirs is a form of mining. http://www.mininglife.com/Miner/drilling/
The world is made by those who show up for the job.
All we need now is a "Huge Helium Cloud will Hit Milky Way" announcement and we will be just fine ... after 40 zilion years.
----------------------------------- My Other Sig Is Hilarious -----------------------------------
For one thing, there is no loss of resources .. Helium is basically the only resource we're "losing". All the other crap we'll supposedly run out of like copper or indium STAY on the planet. As we are running out of copper there are already polymer alternatives to indium. Also, Helium can be manufactured as a by product of nuclear. So no, we're not running out. Why doesnt this guy invest in recycling the stuff or better yet owning shares in it or in helium companies ..even a tiny amount .. then as we supposedly run out .. he can make billions!
and so is your mother. I've met your parents; they're a couple of nice guys.
Guess why. The govenment quit buying it so they quit seperating it.
Who were they going to sell it to?
I love the line from the end of the Wikipedia article:
:-)
The resulting "Helium Privatization Act of 1996" (Public Law 104-273) directed the United States Department of the Interior to start liquidating the reserve by 2005.
OK, OK, so they are going to start liquidating the reserve, but the big question is - are they going to sell off the helium to make some cash?
Capitalism and the market economy does solve this problem. The article states that, at current usage levels, we will run out of Helium in nine years. But because it is market driven, we won't run out, as usage levels will be forced to decline because of higher prices. As the article points out, prices have already risen because of this.
:)
So what will happen is that, next time you go to some kids birthday party, the balloons will be filled with old fashioned lung power because helium has become too expensive. Alternatives will be found where needed, and those places where they must use helium will either pay more or find ways to recycle. Invariably some uses that cannot find an alternative will simply increase the fundamental cost of those products and services.
So in truth, we will never run out of helium, it'll just be so expensive that it may as well not exist. Hooray for the invisible hand!
This sig has been temporarily disconnected or is no longer in service
Because helium is the second smallest atom, it permeates most storage containers. Storage is marginally possible in very large volumes such as the national store because of low surface to volume ratios. During the Sealab experiments, a major cost was replacing CRTS. The helium from the helium-oxygen atmosphere seeped into the cathode ray tubes rendering them useless. For the same reason, helium-neon laser tubes can be rejuvenated by immersion in a helium atmosphere. The only known method of creating helium in quantity is nuclear fusion. This helium shortage has been foretold for some time. I personally know of warnings from the 60s. It is one of the primary reasons for lack of commercial interest in modern lighter-than-air flight technologies.
I think that you are correct. I know that I read somewhere that the helium will be in the top of the pocket, but apparently, there is more within the gas. That is cool. In particular, the seperation appears to be an ongoing process, via the wyoming plant, which is the world's largest.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
"Sometimes customers are a little surprised by the price, but it doesn't prevent them from wanting a fun arrangement," he said. "It's sort of like price increases with things like gasoline or bread, or milk. People don't stop buying them." http://www.spymac.com/details/?2331213
So how come we weren't warned of peak helium?
So, now we have a use for that helium cloud that will hit our galaxy. We just have to conserve until then.
Now, we just need to find a giant crude oil cloud on its way...
rm
Sci-Fi Storm
"Extracting it from the atmosphere is not cost-effective."
Well, no, not when you've got a whopping buttload of it in storage, no I don't suppose it would be.
In 30 years, when Bill Gates needs helium for his grandchildren's birthday parties, you bet there'll be extraction from the atmosphere if that is the only viable source.
September 2011: Looking for Cocoa/iOS work in Boston area Cocoa Programmer Quincy, MA
If I remember correctly, the idea to build a strategic helium reserve came about at around the same time that dirigibles were in vogue for transportation. The U.S. military, in particular the air force, was exploring the use of zeppelins and blimps for the movement of troops and supplies, as well as intelligence gathering. Such ideas lost out when larger, more powerful airplanes and helicopter designs proved to be more practical.
Germany wanted to buy helium from the United States prior to World War II, however a military embargo prevented this from happening, and thus the consequences were made evident with the Hindenberg
Let me see how many renewable replacements I can find for these applications:
* Because it is lighter than air, airships and balloons are inflated with helium for lift. In airships, helium is preferred over hydrogen because it is not flammable and has 92.64% of the buoyancy (or lifting power) of the alternative hydrogen (see calculation.)
Hydrogen is not flammable at less than 4% concentration in air, so a 4% hydrogen mix might be possible (if it doesn't collect at the top). Neon also is less dense than air; but it could have similar supply problems. In general, there's no good alternative that's not flammable. Although party balloons don't need that much lift, so a good deal more air could probably be mixed in with no noticeable effect.
* For its low solubility in water, the major part of human blood, air mixtures of helium with oxygen and nitrogen (Trimix), with oxygen only (Heliox), with common air (heliair), and with hydrogen and oxygen (hydreliox), are used in deep-sea breathing systems to reduce the high-pressure risk of nitrogen narcosis, decompression sickness, and oxygen toxicity.
This one's hard to replace. Maybe argon (which is extracted from the air) might work for some applications? Otherwise, that leaves (de)pressurized submersibles and ROVs (remotely-operated vehicles). Maybe some of NASA's telepresence work will be applied to ROVs, so people don't have to dive so deep?
* At extremely low temperatures, liquid helium is used to cool certain metals to produce superconductivity, such as in superconducting magnets used in magnetic resonance imaging. Helium at low temperatures is also used in cryogenics.
This took a little research. "...the highest critical temperature of a type 1 superconductor is only 23.2 K."(ref). The next coldest boiling point of a gas is that of hydrogen, at 20.28 K. So it might take some different materials, but we could keep using type 1 superconductors.
* For its inertness and high thermal conductivity, neutron transparency, and because it does not form radioactive isotopes under reactor conditions, helium is used as a coolant in some nuclear reactors, such as pebble-bed reactors.
And such reactors are dangerous if a non-inert gas, like air, gets in. Besides, pebble-bed reactors aren't breeder reactors, so they're not even close to renewable.
* Helium is used as a shielding gas in arc welding processes on materials that are contaminated easily by air. It is especially useful in overhead welding, because it is lighter than air and thus floats, whereas other shielding gases sink.
Which means in overhead welding, argon must be sealed in place, instead of welding with helium in the open. Just a small inconvenience.
* Because it is inert, helium is used as a protective gas in growing silicon and germanium crystals, in titanium and zirconium production, in gas chromatography, and as an atmosphere for protecting historical documents. This property also makes it useful in supersonic wind tunnels.
I almost skipped over this one, because argon is also inert, and nitrogen is fairly inert. But for gas chromatography, there isn't a good replacement for helium that is also inert. All the other noble gases have more electrons, and more spectral lines.
* In rocketry, helium is used as an ullage medium to displace fuel and oxidizers in storage tanks and to condense hydrogen and oxygen to make rocket fuel. It is also used to purge fuel and oxidizer from ground support equipment prior to launch and to pre-cool liquid hydrogen in space vehicles. For example, the Saturn V booster used in the Apollo program needed about 13 million cubic feet (370,000 m) of helium to launch.[2]
This could be a problem. An "ullage medium" is apparently needed to fill the empty space in a storage tank. If it's not used, the tank must be built stro
(T>t && O(n)--) == sqrt(666)
Mine the sun!
Question everything
There's a big-assed helium cloud headed right for us. Therefore, I propose we take the "ignore it until it solves itself" method of dealing with the situation.
+1 IDisagreeSoHeMustBeATrollOrAnAstroturferOrAShill
Its a component of natural case. Instead of getting from old governement stocks, one is goign to have to pay market rate of extraction. We have centuries of it left, if not more.
> "Within nine years the National Helium Reserve will be depleted," according to an article in Science Daily.
A prediction by this guy: Barring government intervention, we will not have such a shortage.
Of course, 9 years from now, when this occurs, there won't be any headline retractions about it. Such is the way of life.
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
Doesn't this sound sort of like part of an old Adam West script?
And on a side-note which is probably more relevant. . .
Since the Hindenburg went up in flames because it had been painted with thermite and not because of the gas it had been filled with, perhaps our airships should be using hydrogen which has more lifting power than helium anyway.
I've always felt slightly gyped by not getting to live in that reality where we had regular airship traffic and where classy chicks all smoked from foot-long cigarette holders. I want to wear a waxed mustache and say things like, "Now see here, what?" and not sound like an idiot like I currently do when I speak that way.
-FL
someone invent controllable fusion and MAKE helium from worthless hydrogen!
But what will we fill the airships with!? The damn Krauts will pull ahead in airship development and then where will we be? Stuck on the ground, that's where!
Coding with assembly is like playing with Legos. Coding an application in assembly is like building a car with Legos.
Really, whatever could go wrong with giving kids hydrogen filled balloons at birthday parties.
I mean some things just go together, hydrogen filled balloons, birthday cake with candles, and ice cream to soothe those painful burns!
I only look human.
My mother is a halfling and my dad is an ogre, so that makes me an Ogreling
Using helium instead of hydrogen for balloons and airships is a complete waste; the Hindenburg didn't explode because of the hydrogen, it exploded because of its aluminum/tar coat.
That was the sound of all the clowns going out of business.
I wonder if it could be created via a nuclear reactor or from nuclear waste.
Balloons have been made of porus rubber for so long that the Helium supply is dwindling. Well, isn't that amazing. I figure it's what the Helium suppliers want - so you'll buy more balloons and Helium. Only recently have they begun to sell balloons with less porus fabric but for outlandish prices.
Oh well, must party some other way now. Big deal.
Codifex Maximus ~ In search of... a shorter sig.
Extracting it from the atmosphere is not cost-effective at current pricing levels
There, fixed it. Helium is available. We can extract it out of the air for anyone who needs it. However, the price they want to pay may not make it worthwhile to the supplier so we have fewer and fewer suppliers who can provide Helium and still stay in business.
Saying "something is running out" never seems to take price into consideration. Same issue with oil. There is PLENTY of oil on the earth. The question is: how valuable is it to you (the consumer) to extract and use it? I guaran-damn-tee you that if Helium sold for $5000/cu ft -- we'd have PLENTY of helium. And most likely, I'd be in the helium sales business tomorrow. That's how capitalism works. If demand is out of whack with supply, then the price goes up and more suppliers come online to provide that product. If supply is out of whack with demand, then prices go down and fewer and fewer suppliers stay in that business.
I see it something like:
1. Go to Soviet Russia
2. Find some old Koreans
3. ????
4. Profit!!!!!
See how easy it works?
I will keep it simple.
Do people really need balloons?
I mean... seriously...?
All science is either physics or stamp-collecting.
Too bad in has a helium atom in its structure. No helium = no thorazine.
Or penicillin or metformin (used for diabetes) either.
A great loss.
Before we all take the leap, where is the Helium going? Last time I looked He was on top of group 18 of the periodic table making it a noble gas. Unless someone has figured out how to take He and convert it to C or H and contain the energy which is released, I doubt we are running out. The price may go up but the supply seems pretty constant.
insert inflammatory comment here!
excuse my ignorance (too lazy to google) but if CO2 is heavier than air how does it facilitate all the global warming stuff?
we will NEVER run out of oil. NEVER. It will just get more expensive until something else replaces it
Shall I say anything?
Nah.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
The solution is simple... extract it from the butts of Hynerians.
http://www.farscape-1.com/index.php?title=Hynerians
(look up farting helium... one of the most outrageous claims ever on a sci-fi show. Man those writers failed chem-101!)
Do you hate everybody equally or just reserve your scorn for people younger than you? In the context of this discussion, the GP's comment is not your typical 'think of the children' tripe. The resources we preserve for future generations -are- important, even if they don't benefit your genetic descendants directly.
Or, to put it more dramatically, do you believe that ensuring your own 'good' life justifies behaving in a manner that ensures your generation is the last to survive on planet Earth? Yes that's hyperbole, but the point is: each generation has a responsibility to be stewards of the planet for the next. If we continue to fall down on the job as badly as we have in some areas, someday that statement won't be hyperbole.
If you really don't think you owe the next generation anything, I hope they prove more compassionate when you're old and feeble and need some young doctors and nurses to care for you.
RETURN without GOSUB in line 1050
At least in the long term (say, before the end of the century), nuclear fusion will ensure that we never have an issue with helium supply. Hydrogen is plentiful on Earth (just go visit the beach), and fusing hydrogen into helium is a huge net gain in energy, and the helium waste product can be captured. Perhaps the biggest obstacle will be finding a way to use all the energy released, not running out of helium.
Economical energy also makes a lot of things much cheaper. Space travel, for example. If we really need to harvest helium from space to fill demand, it'll become possible.
In short, solving the energy problem solves a lot more problems than trying to solve problem X or Y, while not solving the energy problem brings everything to a halt. That's why there's so much more interest in solving the energy supply issue with renewables, nuclear, oil exploration, what have you, and not so much other resource crunches. The world can often find substitutes for the majority of uses of given materials; it's not so easy conjuring up new supplies of energy.
At current growth rates, I recall reading, the mass of humans will exceed that of the known universe in 7000 years. Clearly that won't happen, so we need to change our ways. If not now, when?
Thermite had a VERY high ignition temperature
Yep.
And an electric arc can easily exceed the temperature of the surface of the sun.
The Hindenberg was coming to its mooring during the leading edge of an electrical storm. As a very large flying object it would have accumulated a considerable charge on its surface, which would discharge through the mooring line. The surface was largely non-conductive, so when one point was grounded the charge on the rest would have to discharge by arcing. Such arcs would be fractal, with the initial strike of each segment concentrating the progressive expansion of the discharge tips, much as the trunk and branches of a tree concentrate the strength supporting the weight of the growth beyond. So these arcs could be very hot and persist for a significant time. If one of them happened to pass through particles of iron oxide and aluminum, in a local concentration of such particles, you have the condition for ignition. And an arc would prefer to pass through such particles if the ends happened to be exposed rather than covered by insulation.
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
We'll just make some more when we perfect cold fusion.
Please send your money to the "Save the Helium" fund. Just think, a dollar a day could clothe, educate, and house 100 birthday balloons worth of Helium in the fund labs.
In the time it took to read this comment, 3000 liters of Helium were lost to space...
Please...
Please.
When it *again* becomes profitable then oil companies will profit from it. Till them no squeeks for thee!
I'd go on a Vegan diet but the delivery time from Vega is too long. --brownkitty
And Radium is a decay product of Uranium, so we could just harvest the output of all of our nuclear power plants we could produce helium. Although I'm not so sure I'd want my kids to be playing with these new Helium balloons.
I am always doing that which I can not do, in order that I may learn how to do it. - Pablo Picasso
If there is no helium how will my three friends and I travel the world to collect four crystals in order to save the world from a generic villain? I guess we could use hydrogen, but I'm pretty sure that wouldn't work out too well once we got to the fire crystal.
This is actually a long-standing problem, and it was covered in New Scientist several years ago.
Of course, it's not unique. We waste all sorts of non-renewable resources, but this one is
particularly scarce. Helium is naturally occuring in natural gas deposits, which we of course
are tapping out; and of course trace levels in air. Would you rather have an MRI or a balloon
that'll choke sea-life? Of course, we could be using Neon for such trivial uses, preserving He
for purposes relinat about its unique properties such as refrigeration.
Were that I say, pancakes?
So if I offer a billion-trillion dollars for the secret of immortality, somebody's bound to come up with it? Before I die, of course, or the offer's off.
Libertarians are so freaking dense. Yes, a market economy is a powerful engine for creating shit. But like any other engine, it has a finite speed. You can't solve every resource issue with "the marketplace will take care of it." The marketplace is not magic.
Hey, I just invented a new joke: How many libertarians does it take to change a light bulb? None. If there's really a need for light, the marketplace will take care of it.
Economomics is driven by rarity. Helium is the rarest of all the naturally occuring elements and was discovered in the sun's spectra before it was discovered here on earth. Once it is released, it it practically impossible to recover. Sooner or later, someone is going to succeed finding a commericial use for this stuff. I once went to a talk at NASA concerning one motivation for going to the Moon in the 1960's. It was hoped that there would have been enough He 3 (2 protons, 1 neutron) in the moon's atmosphere to make a fusion reaction an economic payoff. If these types of reactions yield enough energy, then it will be well worth it to travel to the moon to harvest He 3. I don't know if fusion reactions for He 4 to yield enough energy to be economically viable.
I've onece asked a Russian researcher working with superconductors where they get their helium from. They obtained it from air using a machine the size of a conference hall that produced several liters of liquid helium per day. So apparently it is possible and even economical at some locations, even though it might be expensive (he did complain about the price, $10 per liter if I recall).
17779 eligible voters in a district, 17779 'vote' as one. This is Russia.
Gravity works on Helium too, ya know. Helium is not escaping the earth's atmosphere unless it has sufficient velocity to do so. Which...it doesn't.
Yes, Helium is the lightest element. But it still has mass and thus, is subject to gravity.
Mod parent up. There's a clip on YouTube of someone talking after inhaling SF6 and the deep voice persists for quite a while until his colleague tells him to breathe deeply to expel it. Can't link you, it's blocked here but you'll find it on Digg every couple of weeks.
Well, the thing is that cancer is something of a group rather than a very specific affliction. Ways to deal with certain types of cancer have been found, but there are actually quite a few different ones. In general dealing with sicknesses and diseases is a changeable and fairly complicated situation, what with multiple varieties/mutations/offshoots of a particular condition/disease/syndrome. That's not to say that the helium situation is an easy one, but we already know of conditions in nature (well, if you count the sun as nature) where helium can be thus created. In medical science, we have some natural immunities etc but it's not quite the same situation.
I am writing with a comment on your recent post related to the helium shortage. I currently am responsible for managing the worldwide helium business for Taiyo Nippon Sanso (TNS), the leading Japanese industrial gases company. Before joining TNS, I managed the global helium business for The BOC Group, plc for many years. So I am somewhat knowledgeable on the subject of helium supply. The entire premise of the article is flawed. While there is currently a worldwide shortage of helium, and a tight helium market can be expected to continue through 2009 or 2010, there is absolutely not a shortage of helium molecules in the world. The statement that the world's supply of helium will run out by 2015 is ridiculous. A more accurate portrayal of the facts is as follows: There are huge reserves of helium in the world that can still be exploited. Huge reserves are located in places like the Tip Top Field in Wyoming, the North Field of Qatar, the South Pars Filed in Iran and various gas fields in Eastern Siberia. So why is there a helium shortage? The current shortage was triggered by the U.S. Bureau of Land Management's (BLM) restrictions on the quantity of crude helium feedgas that the BLM will allow helium refiners to "redeliver" from the BLM's crude helium pipeline, thus reducing the capacity of six helium liquefaction plants that together account for nearly 2/3 of global capacity. In addition, production from new plants in Algeria and Qatar was delayed and ramped up to full production more slowly than had been anticipated. Throw in a few maintenance outages and we ended up with a real messy situation. So why is an ongoing shortage expected? It is important to remember that helium is produced as a by-product of natural gas processing, including LNG production. The investments required to develop natural gas fields, pipeline systems and gas processing or LNG facilities are many times greater than the investment required for helium extraction, purification and liquefaction. So even though the helium reserves are present in very large quantities, the helium producers can not produce the helium until such time as the natural gas fields in which helium is present are commercialized. So even though there is a helium shortage, the helium industry can't build new plants until the after the energy investments have been made. There are currently a number of energy/helium projects on the horizon and by 2011, the worldwide supply of helium should be at least ample. Speaking to the specific comment that the world's helium supply will run out by 2015; I believe that this was an out of context reference to the fact that the BLM will sell off most of the US government's strategic helium reserve by 2015. Sale of the helium stockpile was mandated by the Helium Privatization Act of 1996 and is proceeding in accordance with the legislation. Crude helium from the stockpile has been very useful in enabling the helium refiners connected to the BLM pipeline to maintain their production capacity as the Hugoton Field, which is/was the source of crude helium for both the strategic stockpile and current extraction in the mid-continent area, depletes. In essence, the strategic stockpile has provided a bridge until the various new projects begin production in 2011. A correct statement would be that the US government will sell off most of its strategic stockpile by 2015. Back to your article - it seems to me that the U.S. scientific community has launched some sort of PR campaign due to their unhappiness with rising prices for helium which have resulted from the shortage and misguided fears that the world is running out of helium, jeopardizing their scientific work. My suggestion is that you do a better job of fact checking before printing this material as it serves to spread misinformation and diminishes the credibility of your publication. Sincerely, Phil Kornbluth Executive Vice President - Global Helium Matheson Tri-Gas Inc. 150 Allen Road - Suite 302 Basking Ridge, NJ 07920 Tel: 908-991-9258 Fax: 908-604-1461 Cell: 908-745-9779 E-mail: pkornbluth@matheson-trigas.com
Was the price it sold it at lower? higher? Unknown.
It doesn't matter what the absolute number is - if the cost of extracting and selling the helium were lower than the US Government sale price then an enterprising capitalist would have done it.
Nobody has, so either the market is inefficient or the government is mucking it up.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
Interesting. I may stand corrected....
Question for you: what is the rate of replacement? ie: we know we lose some atmosphere, but we also gain atmosphere when the Earth's gravity pulls stuff into our atmosphere. What are the rates for each?
The original poster claimed Helium is a depleting resource because we are losing it through the atmosphere. I questioned that but it seems the equation is a lot more complex than I first thought. While I still stand by my previous post, I am open to hearing more about the loss/gain rate for light elements.
Do you speak from experience or hearsay?
On balance, it's not a smart move to inhale this substance. That's if this Peer Review report is to be believed.