Slashdot Mirror
New Service Maps Speed Traps By Cell Phone
esocid writes "In a modern equivalent of flashing your headlights to warn other motorists of police speed traps, you can now warn fellow drivers with a cell phone or personal digital assistant about speed traps, red-light cameras, and other threats to ticket-free driving. And as you approach a known threat, you'll get an audio alert on your mobile device. The developer of Trapster, Pete Tenereillo, said the system, which requires punching in a few keys such as '#1' to submit information to Trapster's database, should comply with laws banning talking on cell phones. The free service can automatically detect location using mobile devices' GPS capabilities or tap their Wi-Fi and get location from a database run by Skyhook Wireless. Police officials that Tenereillo has talked to haven't complained about the service because it inevitably encourages drivers to slow down."
of the privacy of police officers!
I would think a police official would find it easier to just have police drive past points hitting #1, saving money on police traps and increasing coverage?
You're rocketing down the freeway exceeding the speed limit checking your phone for text messages warning you to slow down. I hope you die in car fire.
The police wouldn't be setting up speed traps.
A patrol car in the median is more than enough to slow down all but the stupid or inattentive.
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
I'm guessing this would allow me to make people slow down on my street by simply making them "think" there is a speed trap there. Not a terrible idea, if enough people use it. Though how many false positives will it take before confidence in the system is shot?
Or you know, you could obey the speed limit, stop at red lights, etc. Seems to keep quite a few of us from getting tickets.
I don't think the idea for this general type of service is anything new. Success will hinge on how well they maintain the integrity of the data. If there's nothing to stop the police or anti-speeding vigilantes from putting in thousands of false alarms, it will fail. If the data is all out of date or coverage is so spotty you can't rely on it, it will fail.
Especially to something so retarded as moving the slider around on the page.
I don't know about you but it takes more mental effort to carry on a conversation than to dial a phone or hold it up to my ear. The latter two are practically robotic to me by now.
Rather than banning certain activities like shaving, talking on a cell, fiddling with the radio, or tending to unruly children, train new drivers on how to drive with common every-day distractions, train them to use common sense in minimizing distractions in unfamiliar environments, and if they get in a wreck and a distraction is one of the factors, let that affect who is deemed "at fault."
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
Don't they want to slow people down in general, not just when they are there with a patrol car or radar gun? At least I thought that was the theory.
I am so not participating in this discussion. When folks defend their god-given right to drive like idiots, all rational thought flies out the window, and all discussions turn into flamefests.
sending a text message, however brief, and it is not hand free and thus may fall under the guidelines of some of the laws that are on the books or proposed.
Especially if you get someone who has some cell phone activity right before an accident.
Shop smart, Shop S-Mart.
>Information about active speed traps is kept for an hour, with the idea that officers may move on.
Indeed. This could become the system of choice for the subset of people who need to know exactly where the police are running 'john' stings, drug sweeps, or just parked in a neighborhood.
I wonder what effect that could have?
You can't talk about Wikipedia's flaws on Wikipedia
I wonder what the minimum number of people using the service in a given area would be in order for this to be much help. If a cop sits in a specific place for only a few hours, there are only so many drivers going by, and at least one person before you would have to see it and report it for you to get any benefit. I'm sure in larger metropolitan areas and high volume interstates, it will come more quickly, but what about state highways and local roads?
But I posted on about an almost identical system, which I called "copwatch" here on Slashdot, about a year ago...and it was something I 100% thought out on my own. Pretty cool someone did it.
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=227045&cid=18394299
March 18 2007
Basically, it uses the same principle, but every time you see a traffic cop, you press a button somewhere in your car. Your car, with the use of a GPS, then beacons the location of the police car. Other cars then repeat the beacon, which does have a TTL value on it as well.
To prevent false positives, there is a limit to how many reports someone could generate in a set time period, and multiple reports in the same area could mod the threat up.
This would all be happening pretty transparently to everyone, unless they were within a set distance of an active alert, at which point they would be alerted to the danger.
Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, religion destroys spirituality
Maybe troopers will start to hide around halfway between towers now ;)
- *flashing lights*
- Guy gets pulled over
- "license and registration please"
- cell phone beeps "speed trap ahead"
- "Oh what have we got here?"
Tsunami -- You can't bring a good wave down!
Would this be classed as "interfering with a police investigation(s)" ?
Maybe it's just where I live, but police do that too. I think it depends on the city/town.
For example, anytime I drive to Tampa, FL there is a crazy stretch of road where the speed limits go from 55->25->45->25 etc... where the police really do make money from the speed trap revenues. It's pretty amusing since people have put billboards up complaining about the ticketing on this stretch of road.
That only gets people to slow down momentarily, then they speed up slowly as soon as they're past you. When the cops want to slow down a road, they drive in the left lane (in drive-on-the-right countries) at whatever speed they don't want you to exceed. Since in most states (I don't know if it's true in all) you're not legally allowed to pass on the right, there's no way past them.
It would be nice if there was some way to add this to GPS devices. I'd rather not have to take my phone out when I already have a nice big GPS unit sitting right in my car.
I realize there probably isn't any sort of standardization for a plugin for GPS units, but it would be nice.
I think catching the stupid and inattentive is kind of the point.
no 'itsatrap' tag yet for the most obvious story to get one. Slashdotters are slipping.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
Police officials that Tenereillo has talked to haven't complained about the service because it inevitably encourages drivers to slow down.
So all the cops have to do to slow traffic down city wide would be two periodically send a car around with an officer punching #1 into his cellphone at many locations. This way users would know that there are speed traps EVERYWHERE.
âoeAny society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.
i hereby take back all the GPS hating i posted in the recent iphone thread. I was wrong. this is cool and a genuine value.
...which requires punching in a few keys such as '#1' to submit information to Trapster's database, should comply with laws banning talking on cell phones. WTF? Isnt texting while driving more dangerous than talking??? At least you dont take ur eyes off the road while talking! I am seeing a traffic pile up where all the drivers going past the speedtrap were busy texting to this website to "save" the drivers behind them.Guess what? I have never been in an accident and never been ticketed in 18 years of driving. I always signal, never drive more than 5 miles over the speed limit, always let people in when they signal, maintain a safe following distance, and generally don't act like an ass on the road.
Am I better than other drivers? Perhaps, it depends on what you mean by better. What I am is a safe and courteous driver.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
Radar detector reports to GPS reports to cell phone reports to website. All hands-free and completely without driver participation or distraction.
about Corrupt Politicians?
The only "threat to ticket-free driving" is breaking the law.
I have an iPhone, without GPS but it does have 'location' capability. This can go two ways.
My scary thought is - the Government and the phone companies (might as well be Government) and Apple know where I am, always.
Not only can they listen into my communications (text and voice and voicemail) but they can effectively know where I am anytime my phone is on.
I don't want to live in a world without instant communication as I see it as a blessing and Godsend but I don't want to live in a world, where many are hostile to my faith and practices (inside and outside the Government), which allows them to know where I am and with whom I communicate.
One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".
No, idiot, what I'll get is no tickets and no accidents, plus the happy feeling of knowing I'm not an ass.
You know who gets defensive and insulting when stories like this pop up? Drivers who are secretly ashamed of the fact that they drive like assholes.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
I can't speak for all states, but as far as I know passing on the right is legal on an open highway with two or more lanes traveling in the same direction. In San Diego, we pass anywhere there is room (including the shoulders).
The only other instance I'm aware of is when the driver in front of you is making a left turn.
It goes from God, to Jerry, to me.
My father who is a retired police officer was talking about driving 5 miles under the speed limit to mess with people, a lot of people will not pass a cop.
500 dollar reward for tip(s) leading to the arrest of the person(s) who stole my sig.
I don't think that that is the law in most of the U.S. I do prefer to pass on the left, though. We always seem to get slowpokes in the left lane here in Chicago. Usually, these people seem to be completely oblivious to their surroundings. I've tried to flash my lights and honk to get them to move over, but they usually don't move over. Actually, the law should make it illegal to be passed on the right under normal circumstances.
As for speed limits, they should be set to the maximum safe speed for the road. Drivers should then be able to make a reasoned determination of how fast they should go based on road conditions, the condition of the car, traffic, etc. That would free up the highway patrol to get people who are truly reckless and the dawdlers in the left lane.
Exceeding the speed limit != dangerous driving. Most police work is either revenue generation (writing traffic tickets) or enforcing draconian drug laws in the War on Drugs, or as I like to call it, Prohibition 2.0. Legalizing drugs and setting reasonable speed limits would free cops to go after real crimes and do wonders for cop/citizen relations.
But why be reasonable when you can be a revenue generating sheep instead?
Speed is not the problem most of the time. America has notoriously low speed limits designed to make you the criminal when you drive normally (my state routinely has 55mph on highways where everybody goes about 72. Those who actually go 55 are in great danger from traffic). Last time I looked, it was safer to go 10mph above the limit than 10mph below.
It's just the easiest way to collect tickets. Point a radar gun, boom, and write ticket.
I see all kinds of more dangerous traffic infractions that almost no cop gives a damn about. Failure to use turn signals. Or this situation: you are on a normal two-lane two-way road at an intersection with a green light. You are at the forefront and want to make a left turn and the car opposite from you is in the same situation. There is a line of cars behind both of you. Most state laws would give the left-turners the right of way and both of you should be able to turn left simultaneously. What instead usually happens is that the cars behind you take to the shoulder (illegally in this case - going onto the shoulder is to avoid an obstacle, not traffic) and go around you, cutting the two turning left off from their right-of-way. This is where the law and (now) common practice collide.
Someone else mention the left lane as passing. It also recently became State law here that left was only to be used for passing and faster traffic. Not in practice. Most times I see some cas right next to each other neck and neck (and not even going fast) which leaves me wondering why the guy in the left lane even bothered going in the left lane... other than to block everyone else.
But cops sure do love keeping on writing the speeding tickets. I guess going slow negates the danger of not following any other rules:/
And I imagine it's worse in many small towns where moving violations sometimes make up a large portion of the town revenue.
Developers: We can use your help.
I wonder what the cops will come up with the counter this technology. Sure, some departments just want you to slow down, but others just want your money.
My friend just bought a shiny new radar detector. Radar detectors are illegal in some places and the cops can find out if your using one with a radar detector detector. My friend's new radar detector prevents that from happening because it has a radar detector detector detector that shuts off the radar detector if it detects a radar detector detector.
Seriously, this arms race has to stop! I'm sick of using the word detector!
One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".
I know who will..... the asshole politicians and bureaucrats who depend on traps and cameras to pad their revenue streams.
The city and police as an organization probably would. Speed traps have nothing to do with enforcing the law and everything to do with revenue generation. If this gets in the way of their revenue generation, you can bet they will try to find a way to make it illegal.
I agree. Every time I got a speeding ticket, I deserved it. Not because I was speeding, but because I got caught: I was daydreaming or whatever, and didn't see the cop in time. If I didn't see the cop in time, who knows what else I wasn't paying attention to?
When I'm properly alert (i.e. a safe driver, someone who isn't much of a danger to other peoples' safety), I don't get tickets. Yeah, under those circumstances, they could probably nail me for speeding anyway, by being stealthier or lasing me at a longer range. But (maybe I've just been lucky) it just hasn't happened.
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
No kidding... I've experienced this. Then you start second guessing if your speedometer is accurate enough to take that risk to pass him at the speed limit.
Driver's training when I was a teen was a joke. We learned how to drive the back streets of a small town, honk at women and navigate a drive-through. We never even learned how to head-in park, much less parallel park or make a three point turn or not change lanes while eating a big mac and talking on the phone.
Thinking that we can make smart decisions about how fast is safe is giving us a lot of credit. Too much.
My state just passed a law allowing the use of speed cameras to catch speeders and I had been contemplating a site that reports on their locations. The types of cameras that I've seen used around the city are not mobile so having these locations down would be more helpful than speed traps which tend to vary day by day.
Personally I am fine with police sitting out waiting for speeders because if you are attentive enough then you obviously aren't being a danger to the road. However, the cameras that are hard to spot are things I would prefer to just avoid all together.
The idea of signals being sent and recieved through the cellphone is an idea I disagree with as well. Having a mode perhaps on the cell that acted something like a nearness detector that would beep as you neared a point or something. But the idea of moving your attention away from driving is in fact making it less safe to drive.
One last note, the idea of a simple Google Maps integrated site is a great idea for this sort of thing. The real problem with these sorts of projects however is the need of active participation to get anywhere. A way to get some people out perhaps would be to schedule certain days where a few people get together and fan out for a few hours. Solve the problem of getting the info and a project like this would really take off.
Utinam me logica falsa tuam philosophiam totam suffodiant.
It's been my experience them just sitting there causes a traffic jam.
That's not true. It is legal in most of the U.S. to pass on the right.
You've turned the law kind of on it's head. Most places I drive it's posted "Slower traffic keep right". If they are going slower than other traffic, and sit in the left lane, it is they who are breaking the law.
-posted anonymously because I've modded other comments in the topic.
Cell phone messages are "old tech." Think of this as a demonstration of an idea, a prototype.
In the future, threat advisories would be signed, and client software would look up the keyid in a reputation database. People who cry wolf would be weighed appropriately (i.e. not shown at all, or the "cop here" consensual imagery that you see overlayed with the road, would be extremely faint/transparent to reflect its low probability).
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
My driving test, back in 1990, consisted of pulling out of the parking space at the strip mall where the DMV was located, turning right onto a street, turning right onto an intersecting street, turning right again back into the strip mall's parking lot, and parking.
I had much more extensive driver training at my high school (including parallel parking and everything else, driving significant distances with the instructor, etc.), but the DMV didn't know about that.
Ah! Sorry, it turns out I'm wrong: it is legal to pass on the right (provided you have two or more lanes or someone's turning left), it's just... not preferred.
I never had so much fun on the dreary drive between Dallas and Houston as the times when we used to carry a radar speed gun in the car and would turn it on when some tailgating speeding asshole flew past us.
Extra points for visible smoke emanating from the screeching tires.
Double extra points for loss of vehicle control!
Give a man a fish and you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish, and he'll say "WHERE'S MY FISH, YOU IDIOT?"
It's legal everywhere in the US, and not legal in most if not all of Europe.
It's not *necessary* in most of Europe - almost always there is some decrepit truck driving 50 km/h down the right lane, and trucks driving 55 km/h trying to pass him, trucks driving 60 km/h trying to pass them, etc.
Give a man a fish and you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish, and he'll say "WHERE'S MY FISH, YOU IDIOT?"
...try driving slower. you also don't have the risk of killing people.
using technology to solve(?) a social problem is a horrendous idea
In my city people commonly drive very dangerously - not signaling when they turn, aggressively weaving around in lanes so they can get to the red light 3 seconds before everyone else, running red light/stop signs, pulling out in front of traffic so that everyone else has to stop briefly to avoid hitting you - but the cops never seem to give a damn. Go more than 6 mph over the speed limit, though, and they pounce on you. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that people should speed - but the amount of enforcement effort that goes into speeding seems vastly excessive compared to the relative danger it poses.
The really dangerous people are the ones doing 5 MPH under the limit while everyone else is doing 5 over.
Or the idiots who are doing 5 over and slam on the brakes when they see that patrol car in the median. THAT will cause an accident real quick.
News flash: On 90% of interstates, the police won't bat an eye at you doing 70 in a 65. On I-90 in NY, it's been pretty well established that as long as you're under 80 (limit is 65), you're in the clear as long as it's not the end of the month and the troopers are short on quota.
I've known a few officers/sheriffs in my time. They're not so concerned about revenue as catching people that really matter. They're not grabbing the people doing 15 over the speeders. They're grabbing the people going 15 over everyone else. Ooor, they're lazy. Heck, a lot of the time they're just hoping to catch the one guy speeding nervously away from a deal with a kilo of whatever in his trunk.
This sig isn't original enough, it's time to come up with something witty...
What do you say to people who tune the radio knob while driving, people who listen to books-on-tape or radio shows that require you to pay attention, or who drive with screaming kids in the car?
If you think all of these are grounds for pulling over to the side of the road, then at least you are self-consistent in your viewpoint.
If you are not, please do a gut-check.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
Ah, but you forget about the quotas that most police stations have for their beat cops. These cops will be as sneaky as possible just to collect their minimum quota for the month, even if it means setting up shop right where speed limits change or at the bottom of a hill. I like to use gravity and momentum to actually help use less gas when going down and back up a hill (with no traffic around of course), but those sneaky little bastards who just want to get that quota may not see my rationale. What's the harm as long as I'm conscious about how fast I'm going and what's around me?
Absolute power corrupts absolutely. indymedia
I'd be all for mandatory: 50+hours of training, periodic ability tests (every two years or so), yearly eye exams, and maybe more. Nothing that couldn't be done. It would increase jobs and hopefully decrease the idiots on the road who figure that all there is to driving is putting a key in the ignition, gas on the right, brake on the left.
This sig isn't original enough, it's time to come up with something witty...
If they're really interested in slowing traffic to the speed limit then why not wait out in the open? By hiding they're waiting for people to speed past them. When they sit in the open just about everyone drops to the limit. And those that are way over the limit often won't be able to slow down in time and will be caught anyway.
We already know that some places had ticket quotas until the courts ruled them unconstitutional. If revenue was a motivating factor in the recent past, I'm sure it still is a factor today.
Developers: We can use your help.
...to FOLLOW THE FUCKING SPEED LIMIT GODDAMMIT! If you go over the speed limit, you deserve the ticket. And I don't want to hear all the lame justifications like "revenue generation" and "unreasonable speed limits". If it says drive 25 MPH, then fucking DO IT! It's not like driving 25 MPH is going to kill you now is it? And if you say that it will make you late getting to your destination, you should have accounted for that when you left and left a little earlier! God, it amazes me how people try and weasel out of REAL personal responsibility where they actually have control over something. But as soon as there is some poor soul with real problems like poverty or HIV who really needs help, those same people are saying, "She should have been personally responsible and not been born into a poor family". Or... "Serves him right for being born with the wrong gender preference" regarding HIV.
-"...bad old ideas look confusingly fresh when they are packaged as technology" - Jaron Lanier (Digital Maoism on Edge.o
Getting pulled over and getting a ticket for using your cellphone whilst operating a motor vehicle, because you were keying in the location of that officer's speed trap.
Sounds familiar. Check this out: http://www.newromesucks.com/main.html.
I've never had someone go around me on the shoulder while I was waiting to turn left. I've only been driving for 12 years though.
Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
They wait to catch the people who really violate the law? Shock!
This is actually the most responsible course of action. People will violate the speed limit, so raising it won't help. But, if everyone violates it by 15 MPH, then it's fine. Much safer than causing traffic jams by 15 over, then at, then 15 over again when past the bubble.
And, in some states ( I've heard, IANAL, etc.) 10-15 MPH cannot be given a ticket by city cops, only state-troopers. A built in safety valve to protect an unpopular citizen from undue harassment.
Your ad here. Ask me how!
Your father is an asshole.
The last time I tried to pass a cop (Oregon State Trooper), he pulled off while in front of me and then came in behind me to pull me over the "following too closely". (which was BS, he pulled me over for coming up on his ass @110MPH in my WRX, ha ha - his radar was off though!) Too bad for him I knew the answer to his safety questions, denied his accusations and the PASSING LANE had just opened up and I was going to pass him on the left (I had been behind him for a couple miles, at a safe distance doing exactly the speed limit). So I was speeding up to pass his slow ass as soon as the passing lane opened up and he hit for me "following too closely" right at the last second, basically. He had nothing on me though and he knew it. I thought it was a real bitch move.. traffic was great (as in, NONE) until I rolled up on him and the line of 8 cars in front of him all doing 55.
Trapster sucks, but radar detectors are for the weak. No, seriously. Not only are they illegal in lots of jurisdictions, but even in jurisdictions where they are not illegal, they are a sure-fire way to get a ticket when pulled over.
Learn where the police set up their traps by keeping your eyes open. Pay attention to how police drive. Even an unmarked squad is obvious if you're looking at the driving and not at the vehicle. You'll get so your eyes can spot them in your rear view mirror a mile back through peripheral vision. (Yes, it's that obvious.) When you see an unmarked squad, remember its make and model. Know how all these vehicles look from all angles. And for god's sake, if you see one squad slow down - there's almost always another.
Same goes for speed traps. Keep your eyes on bridges, on ramps, and any place a car could hide. Memorize these locations and look for them. If you see an actual speed trap, remember it and watch for it next time.
Use other cars. Let them get about 1/4 mile ahead of you, then match their speed. Stick close to larger vehicles - the radar will pick up their speed, not yours. Keep known vehicles between you and unknown vehicles.
I've never, ever been pulled over for speeding in fifteen years of driving. I don't speed much now, if it all, but when I was younger... Well, let's just say that if you go fast enough you don't really have to worry about the cops approaching from behind.
I love it particularly because my home city is floating the trial balloon of speed cameras. I think I might be up for a little citizen vigilantism when it comes to those cameras.
But the cell distribution idea is great.
Here is a novel idea to avoid tickets: Don't drive like an asshole! If you don't speed, run red lights, and do other stupid things, you won't get a ticket.
It's amazing the idea of not breaking the law and not being a dick never seems to occur to people.
There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
They only detect the cheap radar detectors. There has been an electronic warfare in the civilian world with radar detectors (RDs) and radar detector detectors (RDDs). Moderate priced RDs have had RDD detection capability for awhile and will go into a stealth mode, temporarily disabling their main oscillator.
And of course, you have the professional level such as the Beltronics STi Driver or the Valentine 1 which have been hardened to prevent RF emissions detected by RDDs...
All editorial writers ever do is come down from the hill after the battle is over and shoot the wounded.
In my state anyway (NH) it is legal to use the PAVED shoulder to pass a stopped car in the traffic lane. It is however against the law to leave the pavement to pass. In NH, the thru traffic always has right of way, so the left turners have to wait because they are crossing the thru traffic.
Maybe thats different in other states but I'm pretty sure most traffic laws are nation wide...ie we all use red octagonal signs for stop signs and we all use yellow lines for center lines.
I live in Tampa.
Please state exactly where this is and where the billboards are so I can go see them.
There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
I might be alone here, but I have never heard of anyone flashing headlights to signal about speed traps. That would be almost courteous. Think about it, a courteous act from someone who is admitting to being a jerkish driver. It just dosen't make sense. If I ever saw that, I would just think that they were being a jerk and trying to flash me.
Not if people knew they *never* wrote any tickets.
Flow of traffic is better than speed where lots of cars are involved. I don't know how many times I've been driving into the city, and some guy who is going 55 causes a huge backup while everybody is going 65/70.
Mod parent up.
I've long been of the belief that the vast majority of speeding tickets are written to generate revenue, not to ensure safe driving.
No, we don't. The speed limits we have on our freeways are set for purely political reasons. (The clue is that the limits are set by state legislatures, not engineers.) What I'm saying is that the posted speed limit should reflect the maximum speed for which the road is designed. Naturally, exceeding this limit would be dangerous by definition and worthy of much more than a simple fine.
So, you still think that the current posted speed limit reflects the maximum safe speed? Try this: In the late '80s, the speed limit on many rural Interstate highways was raised from 55 mph to 65 mph. The roads were not changed or altered in any way (other than changing the signs). How is it that one day the maximum safe speed is 55 mph and the next day it is 65 mph for the exact same road?
I'm all for more training, but I think that 50 hours might be excessive. Periodic ability tests (at least more frequent than what we have now) are probably a good idea.
I actually got this from a car and driver article of a study by BMW, showing if you accelerate to the same top speed, and take entire MPG over a set distance. Best fuel economy in a manual trans car comes from full throttle, then shifting at the max torque rpm (varies by engine, but it is a "short shift" at lower rpm.) Next best comes from maintaining fastest accel possible. Worst was accelerating slowly shifting later.
ALL gasoline engines (EFI or tuned properly) get best efficiency at full throttle (at a given rpm.) The "gas" pedal actually connects to a butterfly valve. This simply increases air resistance reducing the air flow to the engine. so saying a engine gets better efficiency at full throttle, is the same as saying it gets better economy with a clean air filter. Absolute best efficiency is always close to the rpm where peak torque of the engine is obtained.
To capitalize on this, most modern automatic transmission cars (except for some high performance cars) will have the engine at full throttle at 1/4 pedal position. The remainder of pedal position changes at what rpm the engine shifts, so finding the sweet spot position for acceleration is not so easy.
People still do that? I remember being taught what flashing headlights was supposed to mean, but nobody does it any more.
They're too busy talking on their cell phones, not watching the road.
Mine was similar. Based out of a library the state trouper had the four rights around the block and park in angled parking down pat. Everyone had no trouble and I was last for my group, but half way around I was asked to stop right in the middle of the street. I knew it wasn't routine as I had just watched several complete the test in under two minutes. I couldn't figure out what was wrong until he rolled down the window and asked the guy with his head under the dash of a car if it was his.
The guy started stammering and I knew he would be cuffed in the back seat when we came back. The guy finally said that it was his car. The trouper puts one hand on the door handle and the other on his gun and asked if he could prove it. Silence, then he said that he didn't have it registered yet. Strike two. "Do you have keys to the car?" "Um, yeah." Pulls out keys from pocket. "Show me they are for the car." Five seconds of silence with the guy not moving. "It won't start." Trouper starts to open the door. "Will it unlock the door?" BIG GRIN. "Yes!" and he demonstrates. Trouper rolls up the window and tells me to take the next right. No further mention of the event.
So I learned a few things on my driver test.
Like any good jedi, the force is my ally. No speeding tickets since I threw the radar detector out the window (literally) a decade ago. Dui's are another story though...the force goes out the window with a few beers.
I don't need
I was thinking more along the rural roads of which I'm am acquainted, not freeways and such. I've never had a problem hitting 90+mph on certain stretches of freeway because I can see everything. At the same time I feel that 35 mph in some residential areas is too fast. So good point about the engineers vs politicians.
As a side, wasn't the 55mph thing to keep people from wasting gas back in the gas shortages in the 70's? I wasn't around.
This sig isn't original enough, it's time to come up with something witty...
Yes, you can get a speeding ticket issued by a federal agency if you speed on U.S. government property. I actually managed to get one in Houston from a Federal Protective Service cop.
I almost burst out laughing. It was a bicycle cop. I had passed him quite a distance back and didn't even see him. I had already parked and was unloading my car when he rode up to me, huffing and puffing. Apparently he didn't write many tickets and didn't feel comfortable deviating from the training script, because he launched into a pre-rehearsed speech explaining to me why *he* stopped *me*!
The whole thing pissed me off. The cop had no radar, no pavement marks to time me, no nothing. He just said that it looked to him like I was driving over the limit. Well, in a 5 MPH zone ( yes, *5* MPH ) it's a pretty good bet that most people are doing a little over the limit. I was irritated that I had been singled out and I was ready to fight. I talked to a lawyer who regularly dealt with odd issues before the federal courts and he was gung-ho. I knew all the federal judges in town, having appeared before them on one thing or another over the years. I knew good and well that all I had to do was show up and fight the ticket and there was about a 50-50 chance, depending on the judge I got, that he would explode in anger at the U.S. Attorney for daring to waste his time on a case with a $35 max fine.
Then I noticed someting weird. The address on the docket notice for the courthouse was most definitely not what I expected. I had been written the ticket in Houston, Texas. The case had been docketed to a federal court in Miami, Florida.
I suppose that's one way to make sure no one ever shows up in court. I mailed in the fine.
In my experience, most police officers are assholes. This is not by coincidence -- in many cases, you can't become an officer unless you are. I have a good friend who went through all the training at the academy, and was the top of his class. He didn't get to become an officer, though, and they cited something about his personality. In other words, he wasn't enough of an asshole.
"That which does not kill us makes us stranger." -Trevor Goodchild
How long before the police take advantage of the service to slow motorists? I mean, wouldn't it eventually become a lower-cost version of parking an empty police cruiser by the road. Want to create a fake speed trap? Just punch a few numbers into a cell phone. Actually, when I lived in town this would have been great for slowing traffic in front of our house! I could have created my own fake speed trap. At least with flashed headlights you know the other vehicle is not a police car. -Frank
Neither of those things (passing a left turner on the right, "sitting" in the far left lane) is illegal in Maryland. I've been cautioned that the law is different in most other states. I liked driving on the highway in Iowa where there were few cars and you could actually pass on the left.
Frankly, though, I care far less about the common practice of people and the common practice of the police. I can't remember the last time I saw an officer driving under the speed limit, but I can very well remember the last several times I saw them run red lights without a siren or lights, and the time I saw one run through a red light, clip a cyclist, and then flick on his lights to flee the scene. And I can't count the times I've scene police (illegaly, in Maryland) leave their car running and unattended in Wawa/CVS/7-11 parking lots.
I'd like to see GPS's installed in every police car so that we can track their driving style. If the car is speeding / runs a red light / detects an impact and the lights or siren is off, a review should be initiated. Tracking speed traps would also, of course, become trivial.
texting while driving is a stupid idea, and if you're speeding, maybe you want to get to the 24hour WallMart before it closes. so why don't you just have a sat nav device with traffic updates? a
almost all the sat nav systems i've seen and used in UK and Germany have an ability to update GPS locations of various Points Of Interest (POI) - be they specific supermarkets, petrol stations (maybe you run on gas, not petrol or diesel), low bridges, or indeed speed camera locations.
currently for UK and other european drivers, there are several sites that offer regularly updated, user-generated, GPS locations of fixed speed cameras, mobile cameras, red-light traffic light cameras etc... Only because I use it, do i mention: http://www.pocketgpsworld.com/
it's got a big userbase of PocketPC and sat nav users, and exactly as mentioned above, they help eliminate false positives through multiple confirmed sitings. However, their speed camera database does cost money - £19 GBP per year (about $4,000 USD). More details on UK camera info: http://www.pocketgpsworld.com/modules.php?name=Cameras
drivers should be concentrating on the road and in their mirrors, not reading text messages on their little mobile screen.
Wrong. Read that last line again. It's so cynical it makes my blood boil. So which is it, Dallas? Protect and serve? Or Harass and swindle?
Original article: Red light cameras too good for their own good?
She loves me: 09F911029D74E35BD84156C5635688C0 She loves me not: 09F911029D74E35BD84156C5635688BF
You wouldn't get away with it in the UK or anywhere with similarly worded laws. In the UK it is the "use" of mobile phones while driving that is banned.
So I guess the German guy using his phone as an ear-warmer wouldn't have got away with it here either...
pi = 2*|arg(God)|
You are a coward.
I wish i rembered the web site, but think it was posted on /. at some point. Basicly it is how they decide speed limits. They take the average speed of the road and subtract 10. They found that if you raise the speed limit above the average, most still don't go faster (some always push it). People will drive what they think is safe on the highway. I'm not talking surface streets, that is difrent. They also stated that 55 is not the optimal gas speed, that was just to get more tickets as most are acustomed to 60 and they could grab more price ones that ran the average 65, 70 (I'm talking WA state here). So basicly, the whole things said speed limits are purely for money, only 10% will drive above or below the average safe speed. I personaly think that can be true, as when I go north and the speed limit turns from 60 to 70, I rarely go up to 80. 70 is fine, as I end up driving from 65 tp 70 depending how heavy traffic is anyway.
Memory is deceptive because it is colored by today's events. - Albert Einstein
heck, if they tried to ticket everybody going, say, 5 over, then those getting caught will cry about getting ticketed for only 5mph over and tell the cops to "go catch murderers" or, in this particular case "go catch the ones going 15+ over".
Let's face it - the police, especially traffic police, can't win in the public eye, ever.
"If every speed limit were set based on the natural speed of traffic"
then the natural speed of traffic would automatically climb above that new speed limit.
Perhaps the reason some speed limits are, say, 60 is because where you live, they expect everybody to go 10-15 over and so the maximum speed ends up being 75; which might have been their 'safe speed for this road' limit in the first place.
Set the limit to 75, and now you've got people going 90 on a road for which it's possibly not safe.
Yes, there's roads on which the speed limit can be raised, and -should- be raised. But there's always a tireless few who make it a point to drive that 10-15mph faster than the limit, regardless of whether that limit is injust or not.
I don't know if this was covered, I did not have the time to read through 300+ comments.
I wonder if state municipalities would go after this company.
This is an example of were the cameras work too well. I think the person misses the big point though. These bureaucrats just view this as another revenue stream for them to spend and now when it works they don't know what to do. Dallas traffic cams work too well
If state municipalities(not the police) know that this company is subverting their tax revenue then I would be they would be concerned and sue for some stupid reason
"If you like Battlestar Galactica, you're probably a huge nerd." -Stephen Colbert
I don't remember the number of the road, but if you're driving to Tampa from the N down I95 it's the road that you take to cross through the middle of the state. Just went and looked it up...it's Highway 301...
ROFL, wikipedia even mentions how it's notorious for speed traps http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Route_301
When exactly was that study done? The only reference to something similar I can find is Saab in 1980. Which explains things. Because I'm assuming most of us are driving cars with things like.....computers, mass air flow sensors, direct fuel injection, etc. Take these into account and things get pretty murky as far as fuel efficiency and acceleration under normal driving conditions. Its been a long time since a throttle plate what the only thing controlling your speed. Now the throttle plate typically controls only air flow, and the rest of things are done through the computer adjusting fuel flow, spark advance, and sometimes valve timing based on sensor values. ....of course if you have a BMW 7 series, the game is different, which also may explain what you read. They have no throttle plate at all, and rely almost completely on variable valve timing.
Which brings up another point - variable valve timing. It really changes torque curves (makes them HUGE comparatively).
Of course you're correct about engines being most efficient at max torque. Anyone who knows anything about industrial motors for things like generators and water pumps know that....you tune them to work at that value. But I'm having a hard time swallowing that what you stated is still a universal rule.
Do not fold, spindle or mutilate.
All EFI gasoline cars I know of, the only human interface to the engine system is controlling this air restriction.
Then the computer measures the air flow affected by this, usually with a Mass air flow sensor, and adjusts fuel, timing to keep it close to stoichiometric efficiency. Then further tunes this based on knock sensor, Exhaust gases, etc for emissions (not economy that is only negatively affected by the adjustments.)
Enough said? If your designing a system for efficiency, you would design everything else to load you engine under this condition as much as possible. With this said the only debate about cars should be is the system designed to run efficiently at a steady state typical highway speed, if so then hard accelerate to that speed is the way to go.
I work on electric vehicle automation, this is what we do, jump right to max torque, accelerate their, jump engine rpm to max HP anytime the wheel motors are lingering outside their efficiency range (near stall for example.) Were now working on ways to shutdown the engine during other times, and supplement the power otherwise.
Any gasoline engine without air restriction for control would run lean. running a gas engine made of metals lean for extended periods will destroy it. I assume what your referring to is using a stepper motor for throttle control, and no hard linkage to the pedal. That changes nothing in my opinion. Things like variable compression, turbos, and supercharges would affect where the efficient engine speed is at, and may get nearly as good of efficiency in a wider range. It will still be less efficient than running the engine at higher loads whenever needed.
The only vehicle exceptions to the faster accel is more efficient are electrics. Battery's are more efficient at lower currents, motors are more efficient at lower torques, higher speeds. If accel can happen without the need for gasoline, then it's a different game. Now floored in most factory tuned automatics keeps the tranny in in-efficient modes, but a calibration with harder lockups, etc will fix that (I am a manual tranny guy, bang for the buck is still much better their. Lower maintaince + fewer parts (1 clutch, not 3) + lower weight = better acceleration for the same economy.)
Incorrect. There is no throttle body at all. This is trivial to research - check it out.
Do not fold, spindle or mutilate.
I did, entire first 2 pages of google search showed parts, and talk about issues with the cabling to the "throttle valve" on several of the 7 series cars. don't know about the body, but the valve is their.
oh, and the first link:
but those systems still use an electric motor operated throttle to control engine speed.
Those speed traps aren't in Tampa. They are way north of Tampa. But, you are right, there were billboards and a big controversy.
FYI, if you are taking going to Tampa from the NE and taking I95 down the coast, you are better off taking I10 to I75 or I4 to I75/275
There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
Yes...from your link...please read it again:
"Drive-by-wire throttle systems are common on many new vehicles, but those systems still use an electric motor operated throttle to control engine speed. Engine speed on this new BMW engine design is also computer-controlled, but now the valves are controlled to change engine speed."
The first sentence describes other drive-by-wire systems as you are talking about. The second sentence describes the VANOS system being used on the high end BMW power plants, which is what I am referring to.
Do not fold, spindle or mutilate.
Pretty neat. Still sounds like a electric motor changes plate position to change the amount of intake air restriction, only at the intake valves instead.
that would shift the volumetric efficiency directly, instead. Would likely be saving spring life, and energy wasted in the valve train as well. That would definitely help move efficiency further down the power band.
A tireless few speeding is not reason to raise the limit. When it's set so only a tireless few bother to follow it, that's a reason.
Even if the system needed to track you (which it doesn't) it couldn't - think about how much data that would be. It just compares your lat/lng to traps in your area and returns them to you. That's it. The system does not differentiate between traps entered from the mobile, traps entered from the Web site, or traps entered from some other source (and other sources are coming). Say you are in Zimbabwe. You can enter a trap in Washington DC, and it still shows on the map (and in the DB) the same way as if you pressed a button on your mobile while at that GPS location in DC. Even if you are at that place and press the button, you can adjust the position of the trap when you get back home (drag and drop), which people often do (let's say they didn't press the button in time, or accidentally pressed a button). So the system doesn't store the sort of information you suggest, nor does it store enough information to derive your location at any particular time. Not because it's hiding anything - it simply doesn't need to. Pete.