Slashdot Mirror
Theorizing a Big Apple Push Into Gaming
Ian Lamont writes "Terrence Russell has outlined an interesting theory about what industry Apple intends to break into next. He points to games. Forget Pippin II, or an iMac gaming rig — he thinks the mobile realm is where Apple will make a big product push. It's not the first bit of speculation about Apple's renewed interest in gaming, but Russell's theory may have more legs, considering Apple's invitation to develop games on the iPhone SDK, its strong mobile product line, and a Apple trademark extension filed three months ago."
How about Apple fixes it's graphics cards lineup before shooting for the moon.
I have a Quad-Core 3.0 and I can tell you, with the GPUs that came with it, I can barely play WoW, nevermind any other new games.
I had to buy a new PC in order to play any of the new games out because my mac (as great as it is), cannot handle the games.
MABASPLOOM!
They'd almost be better off making a console than pushing for games on the iPhone/touch platform. Just my opinion. I predict that their push to gaming will be about as successful as AppleTV.
GM tried the electric car once before, it failed, and they're doing it again. It's because the Gaming industry is one that hasn't been affected by a potential recession, it continues to expand in revenue and profitability. It's because games (much like electric cars) are what consumers want. Go where the market lies, don't be afraid of past failures, or you'll be doomed to irrelevance.
If Mac had a stronger stranglehold on gaming and depending on how things go, isn't Apple based off Unix? So wouldn't that cause games to trickle down to Linux via people reverse engineering and other methods, as well? /correct me if I'm wrong, as said I don't know Mac for Jack
What ever happened to the new pointing device that Apple was supposed to come out with? I instantly though they were going to strengthen their stance on gaming when the rumors about it started circulating.
Forget that. I'd like to see a more serious push from them in the desktop/laptop area so I didn't have to use Bootcamp or VMWare to run games only released for Windows. I'm happy to do that given that I find using OS X and the Mac hardware a very positive experience, but I'd be a bit disappointed if they neglected 'us' and focused solely on the iPhone.
I will shred my adversaries. Pull their eyes out just enough to turn them towards their mewing, mutilated faces. Illyria
Sales of Macs would skyrocket! Plus, DNF might actually run!
While there are a lot of iPhone users now, I wouldn't call developing mobile games solely for their own hardware a big "Push Into Gaming". Unless they develop games for all mobile devices (highly impractical) or get mainstream games to run on their mobile hardware (not sure on the feasibility of this), it's going to be very niche.
"Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde
Apple pushes into gaming they flop. How many times have they promised new tools and support for game devs and come up far, far short? They have no passion for it and you can tell that comes from the top.
"Theorizing a Big Apple Push Into Gaming"
Phew, I thought New York was going to get into gaming. Had me worried for a new york minute there.
mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
you just never know what apple will do next...
A white XBOX, fantastic..
Yes, there are mobile phone games, but how big an industry are we talking about?
Think waaay back before they launched the ipod. There were LOTS of mp3 player brands and Apple can control the entire value chain.
In the mobile phone space, they've got the service provider standing in the way ready to put the squeeze on Apple when they start doing well.
http://www.maxineudall.com/2010/02/should-economists-be-sued-for-malpractice.html
While to me an annoyance, this standardization might actually work in Apple's favor when trying to woo game makers, as it could act to simplify development.
Read my Very Short "Stories"
They should build a console, it will be white, it will look sleek and stylish and the most powerful hardware ever. iPlay!!!
Maybe because it's 10+ years later and both Apple and the gaming industry have changed?
Because they are now a major player in the PC market and Vista is a flop. Things are no longer what they were.
Unless you're talking about hunt the wumpus or curses-based tetris, it doesn't do jack shit for Linux.
Do you even lift?
These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.
Because this time, they are not trying to break into a market. They are already in a market, with a very popular device (iPhone/Touch), that has decent power and 3D capabilities along with some really good control systems (accelerometers/multitouch).
Anyone who saw the demo of Monkeyball running on the iPhone from the launch of the SDK, is crazy to think that a whole lot of cool games are not forthcoming.
Furthermore, gaming on the iPhone has the same kind of hook that Wii gaming does - it's going to be kind of unique. Exactly because there's really nothing like a D-Pad on the system games are going to have to figure out what games work best with controls using multi-touch and the accelerometers. Being unqiue is also helpful in that games for the syste,m will seem different than what people are used to, even from the DS which already has a touchscreen.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Remember the history of all Apple products.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
Game developers like consoles because of the preset hardware configurations. They don't have to test their work across a wide array of setups like they do on a PC. Apple could definitely provide a similar lure with the Mac.
"He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing." --Paul Atreides, Dune
Apple may not have exhibited much appetite for gaming on the Mac but the i-Phone platform could be very different. The new SDK supports OpenGL ES for 3D graphics (and it's a very capable API standard) as well as OpenAL for 3D audio (which could be very cool on headphones). Add to this the gyro sensor for control and you can expect to see a ton of games being developed with the new SDK...
then look how they adapted the i-phone to a music specific device (iPod Touch) and the concept of an "iPod Play" doesn't seem to far fetched to me.
Because those are the next step in OSS gaming? Methinks someone needs to look at Vegastrike or a similar project.
A game that was originally developed for Macs became Microsoft's console's biggest franchise.
The iPhone / iTouch actually has a pretty unique interface for casual games. The touch screen and accelerometer allow for some really unique games that don't translate as well onto other devices. For instance, there are a few marble-maze sorts of games available for Jailbroken iPhones that allow you to control work your way through a maze just by tilting the phone. It's like those old games with a little bead of mercury or a ball bearing, only without the problems of friction making the ball stick. And there's a partial port of Crayon Physics that's really slick. Given a handful of good games, I could easily see the iPhone becoming a great handheld gaming platform.
ZuluPad, the wiki notepad on crack
Unless they develop games for all mobile devices (highly impractical) or get mainstream games to run on their mobile hardware (not sure on the feasibility of this)
I agree there's no way they are going to have a platform for game development for all platforms. Whay would they? Apple wants to sell Apple platforms.
But Apple is pushing in a very big way for mainstream names to come to the platform. We've already seen demos from Nintendo and from EA, in particular a Spore demonstration. Now those were proof of concepts but it's pretty obvious both parties are interested in extending those relationships into real working games.
Games on the iPhone will be different due to how control schemes have to be altered. But we'll see names from many big players, and games from big franchises.
This may strike people as another nGague, but this time Apple is still focused on the core reasons for owning a device - and also making is useful for gaming, which is I think the right mix for a portable device that is not only a game system. I think it will be more successful than other non-gaming mobile platforms, because it has better support for graphics and control and a really good display for gaming.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Over the years, Apple has done everything short of spitting in the face of game developers.
Yes, there will be mobile games for the iPhone. I expect to see a Bejeweled port in short order. No, the iPhone will not be the next handheld gaming device a la Nintendo DS, Sony PSP, etc. It's capabilities will be similar to Windows Mobile, with fewer games. All development will be done by third parties who Apple will do nothing to encourage and whom Apple will end up screwing over (because they always screw over the developers). i.e. "We've just released the mandatory iPhone update X, which breaks all 3rd-party apps, and we didn't bother to tell developers this would happen, and no, we won't tell you what we changed to make it easy to fix your apps. We hate you."
Well this time it would go over better because this time game developers are 'pissed' at Microsoft and have been moving to OpenGL from DirectX. That was one of the reasons why Blizzard chose OpenGL rather than DirectX; It wasn't because they had a big huggy fest for Macs and Linx, it was because they were pissed at Microsoft and hated DirectX. So they started developing on OpenGL and as a result have HUGE market!!! No one else can natively play on Macs and Linux and though people may scoff, this has greatly extended their market.
This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is mine.
Thinking about this, I find I am so excited I can barely sit still or hold a thought in my head. I think it is the excitement only a true gamer can feel, a gamer at the start of a long journey whose conclusion is uncertain... I hope Apple can elevate the gaming industry. I hope to see Steve Jobs and shake his hand. I hope their new games/systems are as blue as they have been in my dreams.
iHope.
If Mac had a stronger stranglehold on gaming and depending on how things go, isn't Apple based off Unix?
Apple OSX is based of BSD, so yes, indirectly it is based off of Unix. However, many applications are written in Objective C, which I don't think is available for Linux.
ZuluPad, the wiki notepad on crack
Not that I think Apple will be making a "big push" into gaming; I think they will gradually be releasing more and more games as download-for-pay content, just as every other provider does with Jamdat games and the like. It's newsworthy enough for Slashdot, I guess, but not worth the hyperbole.
Toons running into walls and making silly dizzy noises, ftw!
"I drank what?" -Socrates
"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." -Mark Twain
Apple uses a modified version of gcc, but gcc has supported objective C since the NextStep days. GNUStep provides an OpenStep implementation.
Do you even lift?
These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.
I play WOW using a white 2.13 dual core with 7600GT and it does fine for WOW, better it works running three sessions at one time. Granted two are in the lowest settings at 640x480 while the main is usually full screen with everything on. I use a little tool named Clonekeys to mirror keystrokes from one session to another while implementing in game macros to tie them all together. I have launched five but all of them had to be minimal to even work. Now I do have 3gb of ram and that seemed to be the key to success.
Now the latest generation iMac has an 8800GS equivalent and the 8800GT can be used in the Mac Pro lines so that should allow for more stressful games to be played either in OS X or under XP.
I do agree their offering is a little slim. I would also like to see a Mac Pro "Junior" line using the same processors as the iMac/Mini but with the ability to slap cards in as I want. That would be the best option but I highly doubt it as Mac seems to be becoming a little corner operation at times. That to me is the only real hole in their line up is an expandable headless unit.
Frankly, with the ability to run XP on the iMac and the 8800GS I may have a good solution for a few years but ideally I would want the same GPU in a Mac Mini or best yet a headless "mini Mac Pro"; junior has bad connotations
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
The PC gaming market has shrunken. A LOT. PC (Wintel? Non-Apple? What have you) games are now banished to a corner of any given video game store, rather than dominating it. And the new Apples are using the same hardware as any other computer out there. So now would be a good time to attempt this.
What they need, though, is something killer. Something that makes people sit up and say "OMG must have OSX!" Something GTA4-level wowzers. What would that be? No idea.
I can't wait for my controller with only one button.
Prediction: The real iPhone killer is going to be sex robots from Japan. Think about it.
So, as I still don't understand,
would that enable "mac games" to be ported as "linux games" or not necessarily? Especially for graphics intensive games.
No way dude. It's named after "Pippin the Christmas Pig". Really.
None of them can see the clouds; The polished wings don't care.
I love conspiracy theories as much as the next guy, but there were some very good reasons to eliminate the EV1. Check out this link: http://blogs.edmunds.com/karl/239
Yes, Vista is a huge 140 million dollar flop. I bet Apple would really hate to sell 10 times the amount of operating systems they currently sell. If it wasn't for the iPod they would have been edged out by now.
GCC will compile objective-C last time I checked.
The language just doesn't have many followers outside its select worlds for some reason. (Not being a c++, C, or objective-C developer, I can comment why.)
Platform advocacy is like choosing a favorite severely developmentally disabled child.
Scotty? Was he named after the Chief Engineer of the Enterprise?
Some of what I say is fact, some is conjecture, the rest I'm just blowing out my ass...you guess.
If it's simple games, I can see the market not having much of a problem buying them for $5 each or whatever. But if these are full fledged games that will compete with the ones released on DS or PSP, then people might have a problem with not being able to buy them in stores as gifts (buying an iTunes gift card will have the stigma of thoughtlessness that giving cash in a card does), or simply not having physical media to lend or trade on used markets.
Twinstiq, game news
Short answer: no.
Long answer: no.
...it was because they were pissed at Microsoft and hated DirectX. I realize this comment was more or less off the cuff - but to say that THE strategic decision to use one platform over another was because they were 'pissed' at Microsoft is absurd. How do you account for the fact that all of their software is developed first for Microsoft based OS and not for Apple OS? So they started developing on OpenGL and as a result have HUGE market!!! Secondly, you state that the reason they have a huge market is because they chose OpenGL. I am willing to bet that the majority of their user base had no information as to whether their games were developed using DirectX or OpenGL.I can in fact prove to you by pointing to the system requirements of their pre-WCIII games that they did in fact require DirectX.
So besides adding fanboy momentum to this movement...what exactly are you saying here that is worth any value?
Let me make you a Fanboy Sandwhich, it is made of Irrational Appreciation wedged between two slices of Untruths.
It does raise in interesting question though: why the hell *hasn't* Blizzard released a native version of WoW for Linux? It runs on OpenGL, it's already been ported to a Unix-like OS (MacOS X). One would think that the time required to actually do a Linux port would be trivial.
"People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
'cause third time lucky - look at Sony. They tried once with Betamax (failed), twice with Laserdisc (failed), then got angry, bribed the competition and succeeded with Blue-ray.
I mean even statistically, it has to work one day, right?
There are two kinds of people - those who are radioactive and those who have already decayed..
When Doom 4 was announced, I looked at the id Software job postings. Several of the jobs are for mobile game development, including iPhone. It seems many game makers are hopping on the mobile market. Whether that market really takes off remains to be seen.
The iPhone market is already in the millions of handsets sold, with a pretty obvious growth path, and the mobile games industry itself is already a proven money maker. The fact that EA and Nintendo were working on prototypes already indicates a lot of interest, and there is clear profit to be made by these companies just by leveraging existing concepts.
I'm not sure the hardware is as limited as you think, it sports a flavor of OpenGL and EA at least simply ported over existing game media to make the prototype they had (as did Nintendo with Monkey Ball).
Mobile ports are totally different than full ports of games to OS X (though EA has already committed to that with a kind of Wine like layer to make it happen).
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Of course Apple's going to push the iPhone as a gaming platform- they'd be stupid not to. Why? Because it already IS the platform- they're already selling a mobile device with the form factor, screen, and processing power required for a good handheld gaming system. So failing to make it into one simply due to lack of the games themselves would basically be silly. I don't think Apple set out to build a competitor for the DS & PSP, but if they're selling competitive hardware anyway, why on earth wouldn't they want to make it compete? Especially if doing so is as simple as beefing up the SDK with gaming API's and encouraging independent developers to do the rest. And there's really not any question about that, because Apple's already done that. They invited in game developers to use their new SDK, and the game developers say they're impressed with what a great game development platform Apple's made the iPhone. It seems that this is yesterday's news; Apple already announced the iPhone as a portable gaming platform, and already has major game developers on board. This article is speculating that Apple might do something that Steve said they've already done in his last keynote.
If you want crazy theories about what Apple could do as far as gaming goes... how about, instead of selling Mac Pros with two quad-core Xeons, they start making them with one quad-core Xeon and one Cell. Sure, it would take a mountain of work to make Xcode optimize its compiler to execute code for running on two different architectures simultaneously, especially one as odd as the Cell, but Xcode already generates universal binaries for x86 and PPC at the click of a button, and Apple's got the resources these days to make Xcode optimize as much as possible for the Cell, and make decisions about which code to run on the cell and which to run on the Xeon.
Why would they try a crazy architecture like that? Well, in the markets Mac Pros are aimed at; video editing, rendering, Photoshop, scientific computing- Cells can, in certain circumstances, run circles around the competition. It could grant a speed advantage for certain tasks that Windows PC's would have no hope of matching. Throw in a quad Xeon, a Cell, and finish up making the OS offload some processing to the graphics card, and you've got a computer with three extremely different and very fast processors to throw at different sorts of problems.
But wait, didn't I say something about games? Well, if you're selling a computer with a Cell in it already, along with a graphics card, (how long could it be before Apple starts offering Blu-ray on Mac Pros...), could they license PS3 compatibility from Sony? They wouldn't even have to license it, Sony could sell a PS3 compatibility client for Mac Pros. Before you say "Sony would never do that," remember that Sony loses money on each PS3- they're in this for market dominance, not hardware profits.
Anyway, that's my crazy conspiracy theory regarding Apple gaming, to go with the "already happened so it's not even news" theory regarding iPhone gaming above.
Can anyone tell me how to set my sig on Slashdot?
All development will be done by third parties who Apple will do nothing to encourage
That's already different. The very launch of the SDK itself had EA and Nintento both presenting concept games (Super Monkey Ball and Spore respectively). It's obvious that in this realm at least, game developers are being courted and listened to (which you'd also realize if you looked at the SDK and watched it change from release to release).
"We've just released the mandatory iPhone update X, which breaks all 3rd-party apps, and we didn't bother to tell developers this would happen, and no, we won't tell you what we changed to make it easy to fix your apps. We hate you."
Not sure where you are coming from on this but the Apple I know seeds development versions of OS X, and now Mobile OS X, early on so that you can see if in fact your app needs to be updated for a new release of the OS.
And they issue release notes detailing exactly what has changed.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Pippin was named after the dog from Jaws that got eaten by the shark........after it tried to jump it. ;0)
This is my signature.
soid st egr.hyTa rsiugm usnin
Any questions?
They need a MID-range HEAD LESS DESKTOP and cross fire drivers as the mac pro has 2 pci-e x16 2.0 slots and cross fire works in windows on the mac pro.
Imacs are better but still have poor build in screen and come with laptop ram that does have the beast timeing.
The imacs don't look that good next to other x86 pc systems at lower prices and the mac pro is over the top.
The mini is a POS and video in sucks for gameing.
$1,799.00 + $150 NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GS w/512MB GDDR3 and you still only have 2gb or ram
or
$2,199.00 and you still only have 2gb or ram
Mac Pro
$2,799.00 + $150 NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT 512MB and you still only have 2gb or ram
or
$2,799.00 - $500 to drop a cpu + $150 NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT 512MB and you still only have 2gb or ram
A good head less desktop starting at $500 - $700 and going up to $2100 with maybe having a few BTO systems with dual video cards at the high end will be a good fit and let them use lower cost DDR2 ram that also has good times as well. With a system with a fast dual or quad core desktop cpu with mid to high end video card and 2-4gb of ram comping in at $1000-$1500.
The FB-DIMMS in the mac pro are not that good for gameing and cost a lot more.
I hope you (and everyone else offering suggestions on this thread) is joking. A "pippin" is a type apple, as in the fruit.
Of course, that may just be an extraordinary coincidence.
Python coder | PyQt Applications | Writer
Yes, if the game developers are willing to put in the effort necessary to make their game compile using GNUstep --- which unfortunately, may involve more engineering effort than the Linux market could bear.
William
Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
...unless DirectX comes to OSX. Mac's make up 10% of the market, something like that, right?
While I'm sure some games will be cross-platform, you try selling the idea of focussing your coding efforts on 10% of the total market to your CEO.
Remember too; games written for DirectX just happen to port real easy to the XBox too - that is real margin savings right there for most game developers.
Oh, and don't even compare OpenGL to DirectX because DirectX does way more than just graphics; it's an entire API set for every element of gaming.
throw new NoSignatureException();
Just anecdotal evidence, but I certainly see more than 4/100 laptops being Apple laptops when I'm out and about. And I believe that laptops are a significant number of sales for computers today.
And as Douglas Adams said:
"The Macintosh may only have 10% of the market, but it is clearly the top 10%." (Douglas Adams)"
Bring Steam over and port over some of the more popular games, like the Orange box and I'm there.
(Likely Won't happen (ever), but I can dream...)
I'm holding off a Mac purchase until I see what gets a refresh at the WWDC.
Do not read this
The video game market is one of the most expensive and toughest to crack into of all global markets. Only two new companies managed to make it from scratch in more than 10 years : Sony and Microsoft, each of them gambling huge amounts of money over many years. Apple certainly "could" theoretically make it, it has the talent and the cash, but as a business decision it would not make sense for a company that is mostly known for breaking changes and creating whole new markets. As for the "mobile" focus, doesn't make any difference : that field is crowded already, by Nintendo and Sony no less.
They are taking advantage of the current disatisfaction within the gaming industry with only having one option for a platform and are giving people a second option and an aditional market. Don't expect people to abandon the original Windows markt but expect them to develop products that are cross platform.
This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is mine.
Well, it was Bandai in co-operation with Apple. And it was non Steve's Apple. Think Steve would have EVER approved the "Pippin"?
and suck is a compliment. They are absolutely horrid.
Did you know that nVidia Quadro FX 5600 ($2800 professional 3d sterio super duper workstation card) performs poorer than ATI HD 2600 XT ($130 card) for example in apple pro application benchmarks?
http://www.barefeats.com/harper10.html
I have 8 core mac pro with 8800 GT (a really good video card in the PC world even today) and majority of animation effects in OS X are choppy as hell and google earth is barely usable with it (5 year old PC with single core and 4 generations older video card beats it).
So, yeah Apple and video has a long way to go.
As the island of our knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance.
Yep, they've now got 4% of the market! They're in the big times now!
If I had 4% of Bill Gates' money, I and 160 of my closest friends would be millionaires (If the Windows Calc program can be trusted).
mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
That's fine. You know that Windows should not be marketed by people who throw chairs.
It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
Personally, I've been expecting Sun to enter the field, what with Java's ubiquity, OpenGL binding, and their massively multi-threaded Niagara chips, I'd think they could come up with a competitive console.
http://www.mhall119.com
dumbest idea ever!
apple will never unseat the wii or nintendo for casual gaming. They'll never unseat the web for granny gaming.
They'll never unseat the 360 or ps3 for console gaming, and never unseat the PC for performance gaming.
as for mobile gaming? n-gage did it and failed. It's tired here in the US where mobile bandwidth costs a testicle and a spleen.
They're using their grammar skills there.
Also, Sony may have failed with Betamax, but they succeeded wildly with 3.5 inch floppies and their Walkman line of cassette players.Both sides of the HD-DVD/Bluray war spent exorbitant amounts of money on promoting their format. The truth is that Bluray was the superior format and was always going to win. HD-DVD had a minor price advantage at the beginning, but that was about it. It never had a chance. Especially when the largest technology companies in the media industry were all backing Bluray. (Many had even contributed to its development!)
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
Apple needs to have a tool the easily allows gamers to develop for both PC and Mac platforms.
Then they need to give them away to whoever wants them. They need to have great game developer conference where developers are treated like kings.
The return would be more sold Macs. While the Mac does ahve a lot of games, I can not count on the next big game being on the Mac.
I am a gamer, and I want a Mac.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Sounds like something that would be made for a DS.
Indeed (though I don't think the DS has the accelerometers). You are however I would point out saying that it's just like the DS, and the PS3/Wii - except it's like both at once since it combines the two things. Is that not somewhat different and new?
You can relax though, just because the iPhone may be popular for gaming does not mean it will replace the DS.
Now can you admit there is potential?
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
You could probably make an Objective-C to C translator, sure, but the language is not the problem as the compiler is free. Mac OS X has tons of proprietary API to re-implement as well.
-mkb
How cute! An input system that makes texting take 10 times as long as using the keypad. Fantastic! I'm sure it works perfectly for Doom RGP and other popular mobile games. Oh and no other mobile phone as decent power and 3D capabilities, the iPhone is way ahead of the competition there.
Then there is the little fact that there are already hundreds of ISV:s developing mobile games using the J2ME platform so that they can easily be ported between different phone models. But they are ofcourse going to give up (relatively) easy portability in favor of designing games for the Apple iPhone uberdevice exclusively.
Football Odds
A layman's theory is a scientist's hypothesis, just as a computer nerd's RAM is a cowboy's Dodge pickup truck.
mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
Wow, that is one skewed view of business history you have there. It almost sounds like you form your opinions and get your business news from Slashdot, rather than mainstream business sources.
Yes, Vista is a flop. You can't just compare sales numbers for a product from one company and a product from another. You have to consider the sales of products that came before it. Considering Vista in comparison to XP, yes, it is a flop. When you have OEMs trying to figure out how to continue to sell the old product on their machines because people don't want your new product, then yes, it is a flop. At least Apple manages to make every OS release sell decently in comparison to their last one.
iConsole: I'm an iConsole
Xbox 360: And I'm an Xbox 360
iConsole: Hey Xbox 360, what's wrong?
Xbox 360: Oh the red ring of death, looks like I have to be replaced
iConsole: That's too bad Xbox 360, you know the iConsole doesn't have that problem
Xbox 360: Yeah, you also don't have any games, plus you cost more than the PS3
iConsole: That may be so, but people appreciate a console that just works, plus no red ring of death
Xbox 360: Yes well despite that we still managed to beat the PS3. I'd like to know what your plan is?
iConsole: Well, while you're off getting replaced people can do fun things like make photobooks and watch movies from itunes
Xbox 360: Fair enough I suppose. I think I'll go play Wii on my week off.
I have nothing compelling to say
When I think 'games', if there's one brand that comes to mind, it's Apple.
... would love to see an Apple mobile gaming device, as long as it had great games, or even better... could run user created apps and games. Apple's sleek styling that I really dig. Think of an Apple console! I'm sure it'd look slick, but if they really put some though and innovation into it, it'd be great to see them entry in the next generation of consoles. I think the next generation of consoles will have for "PC" or "Media Center" functionality than those out now. Apple already has a grip on the way a lot of us listen to our music, it would be really nice to see what they could do with a gaming console / media center. Competition is good for the consumer.
"The irony when tending a flock of sheep is the dogs you put in place to protect them are genetically mutated wolves"
*Do not post without hitting "PREVIEW" while on Vicodin* I really should have proof read that....
"The irony when tending a flock of sheep is the dogs you put in place to protect them are genetically mutated wolves"
so yeah, in keepin w. apple's general dumb downdness and crapiness, so ladies phone, yeah!
Contemplate the marvel that is existence, and rejoice that you are able to do so.
fix bugs? no the reason there are no games for OSX is because developers are lazy and MSFT has everyone coding for directX, instead of OpenGL.
.NET api which is far safer.
Why do you think doom came out on the mac at the same time as on Windows, with a linux client a few weeks later?
It's because ID codes to an OpenGl backend while everyone else codes to directX and finds they can't actually port the code they have already written.
It's like adobe. Carbon from day one has a api set to help transition applications to Cocoa. Adobe used it exclusively and never bother to upgrade. Several years later as The full features of Cocoa are being used Adobe is stuck and way behind everyone else. They had plenty of time they just couldn't be bothered to write their code cleanly and are now stuck.
MSFT is there now too. they have good API's but because they inist on backward compatiblies developers use the win16 method for calling files instead of the new
i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
Well, if you can't compare companies sales numbers (in relation to to costs, obviously), what do you compare? Quants of accumulated karma?
I would like to die like my grandfather did - sleeping. And not screaming in terror, like his passengers.
Mac applications are written in C and/or Objective-C, using the Cocoa or Carbon libraries to provide an interface to the user (and to the underlying OS). Games specifically are usually written using OpenGL with (optionally) a mix of other platform-specific functionality. Accessing the user (via HID), the graphics card (via OpenGL, CoreGraphics, CoreAnimation, etc), and the sound hardware (via CoreAudio) is all platform-specific.
Most of a specific chunk of code written for a Windows game will (most likely) be relatively portable already (with the possible exception of non-standard types). The bits that need to be rewritten to work on OS X are the same bits that would need to be rewritten to work on Linux. Porting to OS X gains Linux almost nothing.
Richer? It costs less than a Dell? Elitist? Why does one have to be elitist to own a Mac? 48% of college students are purchasing Macs as their first computer. Are they all elitists because they own a Mac or because they're seeking a higher education? In which case, you imply it is better to not be educated and own Windows.
This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is mine.
Macs as gaming systems are already helping to make for an easier transition for games on Linux, but for the most part the Linux market isn't there. Mostly the affect is due to developers moving to OpenGL for flexibility of platforms (Windows, Mac, PS2, PS3, PSP Wii, NDS, and mobile phones) as opposed to DirextX (Windows and Xbox360).
...."Have you mooed today?"...
Because John Carmack is one of the rare game developers who is wealthy enough due to his previous and ongoing successes (and being first and best into a massively successful niche...the first-person shooter) to own and run his own company which means that he calls all of the shots. Obviously Mr. Carmack enjoys proving the technical superiority of his code and games by running them on many platforms, even if those platforms don't earn a lot of extra revenue, but most game developers don't have these luxuries.
As for Adobe, Microsoft, and backwards compatibility, there are always trade-offs to be made with regard to supporting existing customers and ditching the old in favor of the new. These include not just technical issues, but money issues too. It is easy to Monday morning quarterback previous corporate decisions when one has the benefit of hindsight, but for those of us who are not prescient we make the best choices (or what we believe are the best choices) we can with the information that we have in the time available.
...and the replacements on {fill in your non-OS X UN*X here} for any other Mac OS X-specific APIs used by the game.
"If it wasn't for the iPod they would have been edged out by now."
Which computer company has the strongest 1st quarter PC sales? you know the post Christmas, not yet tax refund season when people are swimming in Christmas debt?
Apple computer, they are usually within 1 million units or so of their 4th quarter (the strongest quarter for any PC maker) numbers in the 1st quarter... what does that spell to me or to you or to anyone else?
There are people who because they couldn't get an apple computer for Christmas tucked that money away and bought it in the 1st quarter. There are enough of these people who couldn't get it in Christmas, that the 1st quarter sales for apple are insanely high.
So what if anything does the I pod having 75% of the mp3 player market have anything to do with the massive massive popular demand for new apple products since Steve Jobs took back control of apple?
basically, nothing. if the apple computers weren't so popular they'd have abysmal 1st quarters just like everyone else in the PC sector. But they Don't.
Keep in mind that a significant percentage of 'total' annual computer sales are purchased by businesses, almost none of which buy apple, because they're looking for the most stripped down and cheapest PCs they can deploy for their companies employees. Apple has the strongest consumer market out there as demonstrated by how many apple purchasers buy in the 1st quarter because they simply couldn't buy what they wanted in the 4th quarter.
Doing good when all your competitors are doing bad is a strong sign of having a good consumer brand. Ipods definitely affect apples bottom line though, and they definitely saw the company through some lean years, but they have nothing to do with apple's 1st quarter PC sales.
https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html
As an addition, people who work in glass Windows shouldn't throw chairs.
GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
You mean the SDK that requires Apple's blessing to actually use?
And you think GAME DEVELOPERS, mavens of proprietary libraries, give a whit about spending a whole $100 to write games? Get real.
The SDK just further demonstrated Apple's hostility toward developers. Sure the SDK is free, but to actually use it (the emulator won't run openGL, so its useless for game development)
Been running OpenGL stuff on the emulator for weeks now. What else are you totally ignorant about I wonder if you can't get that basic fact straight?
Apple has already rejected 90% of the developers who applied.
So that's what else you're ignorant about. You mistake delay for rejection. All the people that got letters are slowly being accepted. I know, because a friend of mine just got in that got the supposed "rejection" letter (he doesn't work for any company, applied as an individual). Also of course Apple themselves clarified long ago it was simply that the beta program was being slowly expanded.
Please do some reading before you post next time, you'd save all of us some time and your reputation from a savage beating from those that know better. Or in fact anything.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
It is - GCC has an Objective-C frontend. The real problem is apps that use Apple frameworks like CoreAudio, CoreVideo, CoreData etc - those don't have implementations on Linux.
Wrong: Apple didn't develop the Pippin, it was a product created by Japan's Bandai, a Mac OS licensee.
It was a packaged as a high end (well, higher priced) game console to compete against other failed attempts to provide something more than a game console and less than a computer, largely aimed at accessing the Internet.
The failure of the Pippin was no more Apple's fault than the failure of the WinCE-based Gametrac was Microsoft's fault.
In addition, the other circumstances of 1995 and 2008 are a bit different too. For example, we now have fairly common WiFi rather than only dialup, so you can download games rapidly. Apple has also changed from a weak PC ghost to a consumer electronics powerhouse with its own retail outlets.
Interestingly, Apple's iPod Touch/iPhone compare pretty well against the Nintendo DS and Sony PSP as a gaming platform:
iPhone 2.0 SDK: Video Games to Rival Nintendo DS, Sony PSP
Not until someone makes a project that emulates the OSX APIs and such... like WINE, but for Mac
:)
I am dubious about many games taking advantage of the motion pack, add-ons never really seem to do well... but it's nice it has the ability now, I'm sure at least a few good games will come of it.
Yes, it blends aspects. Yes, it has potential. No, it doesn't have enough potential for people to immigrate to the United States to become eligible to sign up to be developers.
Then it's well I never claimed any such thing, though actually there are a number of international developers clamoring for access that Apple has just opened up the program for. Not just for games though, just general application development.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Blizzard didn't move from directx to OpenGL because they were pissed, it is most likely because they saw how horribly broken DX 10 is in vista.
the vast majority of vista crashes are related to a. nvidia b. ati and c. Microsoft and guess what, it's almost all related to directx 10.
when one company is drowning in an inferno of having the least stable graphic programming interface ever, and you generally have been writing an opengl interface for all your games anyways, it's easy to see why they'd switch.
Microsoft has a legacy of releasing broken products, or missing release dates to release slightly less broken software...
which is why it's crazy that OEMs keep supporting MS and their lack of a clue, when they could for less money invest in open source, or gradually pressure parts suppliers to write open source drivers, etc for linux, and when the drivers are good enough, bail on microsoft for good and save your company 400-800 million dollars a year in the microsoft tax (that's based on dell's market share, times a $10-20 oem volume pricing from windows.)
OpenGL is good enough and robust enough now that blizzard sees no reason to use DirectX that's a good thing. If more companies followed their lead, apple or linux would quickly become the target platform of choice rather than MS, simply because their software is designed by people with brains, not committees who delegate what features are absolutely necessary, at any cost.
https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html
None of the major system APIs other than Posix and common low-level OSS libraries have any resemblance to those in Linux.
You forgot the CD, which was developed jointly by Sony and Philips.
GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
"It was Between Jobs as CEO"
there fixed that for you.
https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html
The percentage of Mac laptops can be overwhelmingly large in certain niches, which reminds me of this photo I saw not too long ago.
As would be their revenue from such an endeavor. I doubt that the total linux market for WoW is much greater than the willing-to-run-it-in-Wine market.
As you point out, sales in relation to cost is one factor. MS bragged that Vista cost something like $6 billion to develop. It's certainly a flop by that standard.
The OP was comparing MS' license sales to Apple's Mac sales, which is a false comparison. MS makes all its money from license fees. Apple produces software in order to add value to its hardware sales. Apple brings in half MS' revenue from sales to 5% of the PC market. Certainly, comparing unit sales of their respective OS licenses is not useful.
Apple doesn't want to sell OS licensees to PC users, it wants to sell them Macs. It's doing far better selling Macs than it would if it were to trade its hardware business for 5% of Microsoft's software business and ineffectually scratch against the monopoly as NeXT, OS/2, BeOS, and Linux have.
You might as well keep going and tell us that the iPod is too expensive for people who just want to listen to music and that the iPhone is too expensive for people who just want to make calls.
The PC serious gamer market is not big enough for Apple to attack. The desktop PC market is reaching a plateau. Apple is growing far faster than the industry overall, with consistent ~35% growth while the PC market chugs along at 4% on average.
Apple's percentage of the worldwide market for PCs and x86 servers (which is the numbers IDC and Gartner throw around) include lots of markets Apple does not even compete in. Those numbers are designed to marginalize anyone who does not sell x86, Windows-based PCs.
For the first time in decades, Apple is revealing how absurd those figures are. The reason everyone sees Apple logos on computers in every cafe, concert, conference, and campus is that Apple now has a large chunk of the consumer market, and is working its way into corporations because of that.
Don't know how I confused Sega for Nintendo, I guess it was the platform Super Monkey Ball shipped on that came out through the keys...
:-)
As for the ordering, I'll claim it was stack based FIFO all along.
Thanks for the corrections.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
The fact that Mac OS X is built upon Unix means that Unix software can be run on it. It does not mean that software developed for Mac OS X can be easily ported to other Unix-like operating systems.
There is probably as much shared code between the Windows and Mac port as there would be between a Mac and Linux port.
If there were Cocoa and Carbon frameworks for Linux, that might change. But that's not likely to happen. Even GNUstep is now significantly different than Cocoa.
I know that I'm probably going to be throwing gasoline into a potential flame war here, but your site is hardly authoritative. That article simply lines up a series of straw-man arguments and shoots them down. eg:
Whatever, though. It doesn't matter.
The exciting thing is that they are making a new electric car, so even if there were dubious circumstances around stopping the EV1 (I don't know the details well enough to comment), it is all moot.
Pippin was supposed to be a computer-console bridge, but it was too expensive for the console market (~$600) and too slow for either the computer or console market (and I believe had almost no storage which hurt its appeal on the computer side, as well). Apple didn't even build it - the hardware form was licensed (Bandai was one manufacturer, Kai or something was the other) and Apple just provided software (this was in the Michael Spindler-Gil Amelio days, when Apple was dedicated to licensing and running the company into the ground). I never saw Pippin hardware or a unit of software for sale in the United States as a result of this and I frequented tech stores a lot more than I do now.
That said, I seriously doubt Apple would push into the console market at this time, as there is no market niche for them - the high end is MS and Sony, the low end (and currently hip market) is Nintendo and all are low margin and make it up in long term licensing. On the other hand, jumping into the handheld market would be perfect - I'm sure they have hardware comparable or better than the current systems out there (the PSP is 4 years old already and the DS was old when the PSP came out) and they have the dominant alternative distribution model - iTunes (Steam is the current big player for games). It seems a perfect time to put out a flashy alternative handheld.
What can traverse the iMac/MacBook/iPhone/iPod Touch universe?
music.
e-Mail.
Web.
video.
Games.
Any two of the above would combine to maske a nice product.
Any three of the above make a great market.
Any four make a blockbuster.
Remember when hearing that Microsoft was 'getting into' your business meant certain death, dismemberment, or pain?
Fear Apple.
You heard it elsewhere. It's true.
Coming up next; Google as Evil. Real Soon Now.
deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
GNUStep is hardly helpful in porting Cocoa apps to Linux. OpenStep is based on NeXTSTEP 4.0. Leopard's Cocoa is 9.0.
Mac developers using Obj-C are using it to write Cocoa apps. having an Obj-C compiler for Linux isn't the problem; having no Cocoa frameworks is.
Apple, getting in to games. Supporting game developers. Pigs flying. Dogs and cats, living together... mass hysteria.
As a long time Mac user, I have seen Lucy Jobs yank this particular football away at the last second more than once.
I'll be believe it when I see it, and maybe not even then. Occam's razor applies: what is more likely, Apple becoming actively pro-game, or me lying half dead and delirious in a ditch?
What you say would be true IF we were talking about your run of the mill GUI app, but not something like WoW. I seriously doubt that WoW uses Cocoa OR Carbon to any large degree. Their little "launcher" app and their patch downloader would be about the extent of it. The actual game's video output is all 3d accelerated and is pretty much all going through OpenGL. That IS available for Linux, and hence the port would indeed be pretty simple.
"People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
IANAE, but wouldn't it at least encourage developers to support OpenGL instead of (or in addition to) DirectX? It's always seemed to me that developers are more likely to develop for an additional platform once they're already developing for more than 1.
It's like, if you're making Windows-only software, then why not rely on all of Microsoft's proprietary little bells and whistles? But once you're developing for Mac, you're thinking about how to do proper cross-platform development and whatnot. The extra step to support Linux seems a little smaller, right?
Of course, I'm not a programmer at all, so what do I know.
That's like saying if you build a WalMart from bricks and it doesn't work out, you can use your bricks to build a McDonalds somewhere else instead without much trouble, because you already have the bricks.
-
You might be able to share some library code between platforms, but applications developed for Cocoa Touch are not going to be highly portable to Android because of a subset of commonality in of the programming languages used on both.
Android is essentially Java, except the code is converted into a non Java bytecode to run on a different VM so that Google doesn't have to pay Sun for it.
Cocoa Touch is based upon the very different Cocoa frameworks.
It will be easier to port Java code to Cocoa Touch, although the UI will still need to be built custom for the Cocoa Touch platform.
Actually, I work as a programmer for a living. I also strive to use cross platform libraries like wxWidgets and such whenever I can, so that my code is as portable as possible. If you avoid the temptation, you can indeed develop code that ports pretty easily between platforms. While I don't have access to their source, from an external standpoint WoW looks to have been developed very portably (avoiding writing to the registry, keeping everything within it's own directory, sticking to an open graphics protocol like OpenGL, etc).
"People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
i chose ladies phone because my personal experience is that females of all ages seems to want the phone as a normal rather then exception.it just seems to appeal to them for some reason.
and as similar experience tells me that puzzle games like bejeweled seems to be a female favorite to, merging those two and providing a simple interface for finding more of the same would be a virtually unbeatable combo.
heck, i guess the classical expression of having "a license to print money" may very well apply.
casual gaming on the go with built in ability to find more...
comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
Apple has always charged ridiculous prices for memory upgrades. Fortunately, upgrading memory is very easy and can be done for much less. I upgraded my iMac from 2gb to 4gb for $120, and my Macbook to 2gb for less than $100. Bought the memory at Crucial.
wow, apple is overpriced, it's not like Alienware isn't overpriced either. That's why my custom built Gaming rig (if i had the money to build it today) would costs me about $2053 or so. Add in the 46" HDTV to be it's primary display, and the cost goes up to about $3600 but that's with a 46" screen... 46 beautiful inches.
fulls specs in my journal here, but it's got a Black Phenom, 640 total graphic processing streams with 1GB of video ram, and 4GB of 3-4-3-9 system ram, and 1 TB of HDD. I'm still worried it's underpowered for vista, but that's what dual booting is for right.
https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html
Graphics intensive games would call OpenGL, which is already cross-platform and supported in almost all hardware. Objective-C is a programming language, so if the programming language is written for the platform, it should compile. This should be fairly straightforward and little porting involved. You always have a few issues, mainly where BSD differs from Linux library-wise and sometimes endian issues (Objective-C or at least Cocoa includes endian libraries, but you aren't forced to use them).
What may be an issue:
New features in Cocoa - Objective-C 2.0 added some new functions and compiler options and I doubt they're in GNUStep or OpenStep (at least yet).
Apple systems already share some properties with gaming consoles, namely the harware homogeny of Apple systems.
While to me an annoyance, this standardization might actually work in Apple's favor when trying to woo game makers, as it could act to simplify development.
Apple controlled does NOT equal consistency...
Look at the various models you can buy now, there are several classes of Video Cards, CPUs and that alone is enough to make it a mess.
When you add in the messy nature of the Apple Driver model in OS X, it becames even scarier for games makers. (Apple's desing of working around the monolithic nature of the BSD interface when creating the hybrid OS X driver model has a lot of trade offs that are troublesome, and require kernel level reworking to get the performance up to the level to compete with NT in gaming.)
Mac users expect to buy a Mac and have their Mac software work well. Games running on a low end Video card Mac will PO users faster than anything, as they don't all get the whole 'specifications' of the hardware.
Just with shoving WDDM into Vista, Microsoft has moved forward in creating a consistent gaming environment, and they already own the gaming world because of the past consistency, even though it is has been considerably more inconsistent than a console.
DX10 and especially 10.1 with the WDDM model ensure than games even render consistently with consistent performance levels, even though games on the shelves don't yet reflect the Vista only and forward crowd. (DX10 won't even have performance benefits until games are running on a full DX10 engine, instead of extending textures past DX9.0c, adding in new shadow modeling and calling it DX10, as the engine is still set up for the DX9.0 optimizations and design model. When you see a game on the shelf that says DX10 and Vista Only the quality and performance of the game will reflect what DX10 and 10.1 is bringing when it 'truly' gets here.)
Apple already tried to push into gaming with Leopard and it fell flat on developer's ears with the updated OpenGL support, that was already showing some age in the OpenGL/Graphics world, and the Apple implementation is less than stellar.
Besides, you can do a simple search and find 1,000s of posts like this already, and Developers are not too happy about these types of responses. (Even the initial Vista backlash on gaming pushed developers to abandon DX10 only titles for an additional year until Vista's drivers caught up to XP. And getting OS X drivers to the same level of gaming performance would be a nightmare with NVidia/ATI/Apple all fighting.)
http://forums.nvidia.com/lofiversion/index.php?t41615.html
It sounds a lot like Amiga Anywhere which is a new platform that developers can use to write games for mobile phones.
In 1988 the Macintosh II series copied a lot of features from the 1985 Amiga 1000 computer. History repeats itself.
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
Long answer: The 3D API on both Mac and Linux is OpenGL, porting would be easier than it would be if it was originally written for DirectX/Direct3D. However, OSX has a bunch of Mac-only APIs - there is no rule that says that porting from those to Linux equivalents will be any easier than porting from Win32.
If J.K.R wrote Windows: Puteulanus fenestra mortalis!
Strange, on www.apple.com/ukstore it is only £120. Not that Apple doesn't make good money if you buy RAM from them; just go to Crucial and get it cheaper.
I think games are a no brainer when it comes to mac. But, I wouldn't push for it. Let people continue to buy a copy of windows to run games on. I think that the next direction for MAC is going to be more steps in what made them successful thus far. Education, Education, Education. Just about every college Campus in the US has an outlet of selling Mac computers. This means that it only makes sense for Apple to continue developing software and hardware to support those endeavors before Linux does.
Control is an illusion, order our comforting lie. From chaos, through chaos, into chaos we fly
I'll believe Apple care about gaming when they devote engineering effort - ANY engineering effort - toward improving SDL or some hypothetical equivalent.
Any sign of this so far? Nope. Their current pitch to game developers is "come on over, waste brain cells learning our dead-end niche programming language, chain yourselves to our mind-bogglingly retarded UI that thinks opaque binary blob is an acceptable source format".
<River> Call me if anything interesting shows up </River>
I've always had the impression that Steve Jobs has a great disdain for games and the games industry.
I don't know if it was backlash from his short stint at Atari or what, but he's never once treated games as any sort of priority for Apple. I really doubt that even their earlier systems would have much for games if it wasn't for Woz.
Jobs' comments when asked are usually to the effect that games are just a sideproduct, something that comes along, as if they were automatically lesser than other software and that they'll just pop up on their own, without much API or hardware support for them.
Sure they'll jump on it as a potential source of extra revenue and popularity for the iPhone, I'm sure hardware designed for videos and web should be able to play something.
But I'm gonna take a Gabe Newell stance on this one: I don't think Apple understands games and the games industry at all.
~shrug~
Last time I checked the Windows, Mac and Linux (openGL) combined market was not smaller than the Windows (directx) market alone. Seriously man, you did make some semi-decent points, but bullshit about games being forced into smaller markets discredit most other things you say. It's just wrong, and I can't believe you didn't notice that it was wrong when you wrote it.
They Bought a PPC Chip Company, They just patented a wii like controller. I think its 2 or 3 years off, but I can see it. In the Mean time I can see shortly the Apple TV and Ipod Touch / Iphone become casual game platforms.
Watch oil companies buy electric companies and then find a way to create a vise-like grip on our wallets all over again.
but the dog was probably named after the hobbit anyways...
Starbucks, Harbuckle of Breath.
And rest assured, this is by design. Apple is as excited about Linux as Microsoft is, probably even less so.
How Apple feels regarding Linux aside, I seriously doubt that Apple designed any of their APIs with an eye towards Linux incompatibility.When the Gamecube came out I imagined it would be a good idea for Apple to make their computers play Gamecube games natively. Why not? There were lots of similarly-branded components at the time (ATI graphics cards, I think, IBM chips). That would have been a win-win, because Nintendo really needed some kind of boost, and Macs desperately needed games. If that didn't happen, then I doubt Macs playing PS3 games ever will. Don't you think you'd sooner see a VAIO playing PS3 games?
Apple computer, they are usually within 1 million units or so of their 4th quarter (the strongest quarter for any PC maker) numbers in the 1st quarter... what does that spell to me or to you or to anyone else?
There are people who because they couldn't get an apple computer for Christmas tucked that money away and bought it in the 1st quarter. There are enough of these people who couldn't get it in Christmas, that the 1st quarter sales for apple are insanely high.
If you're going by 1st quarter sales reported by Apple, then your theories might be negated by the fact that Apple's fiscal 1st quarter runs from October 1 to December 30. Here's an example: Apple Reports First Quarter Results- "CUPERTINO, California--January 17, 2007--Apple® today announced financial results for its fiscal 2007 first quarter ended December 30, 2006."
In contrast, Dell's fiscal 1st quarter runs from February thru April.TO START
PRESS ANY KEY
Where's the 'ANY' key? I see Esk, Kitarl, and Pig-Up...
I wish I had mod points to remove your Flamebait. In my area, which is by no means too large, there is a several year waiting list just on Hybrids.
And most of the car companies say they have to 'slash production' because there isn't enough demand! Ahh, internal combustion engine, how I'd love to lose thee.
I think they did port it, they just never released the port.
"Alot of game developers and studios are moving towards OpenGL these days not just because of the popularity of the Mac as a platform and because more college aged people are getting Macs but because they are disatisfied with Windows and DirectX."
It's actually more likely that they're developing for OpenGL because they can target the PlayStation 3, Wii, Symbian, iPhone, and in the future, Android with it. Macs are definitely icing on the cake that provide an added attraction, but they aren't the primary motivation, especially when many DirectX games can be fairly easily ported to (Intel) Macs with Cider.
I'm not going to change your sheets again, Mr. Hastings.
Porting many games would however be less challenging than other types of apps because they tend not to use many features of Cocoa that aren't in AppKit, and the GNUStep version is pretty similar to the Cocoa one -- they're also far less reliant on IB NIB files and the growing collection of OS X UI widgets.
IMO the biggest problem with GNUStep portability wise is that it doesn't directly support Windows (you have to use MINGW or similar), so it's at best a way of helping to write stuff for UNIX and UNIX-like systems.
I'm not going to change your sheets again, Mr. Hastings.
"Mac OS X has tons of proprietary API to re-implement as well."
There isn't really very much that most graphics-oriented games would gain from using those proprietary APIs with the notable exception of the Mac's audio systems. The bulk of a decent modern game wouldn't require anything beyond OpenGL and standard POSIX APIs, all of which are present in most UNIX-based and UNIX-like systems that people who want to run graphics-intense games on that type of computer are likely to be using.
I'm not going to change your sheets again, Mr. Hastings.
well it *might* be that someone at Apple reads this ...
And Apple should make it easy to upgrade and change stuff. With the exception of the Mac Pro Apple computers are among the worst thing you could put on the desktop of your 500+ workers. Every swap of a died harddisk is a big operation whereas in office PC from HP (for example) they can be changed in less than 5 minutes.
-- "As a human being I claim the right to be widely inconsistent", John Peel
Down here in the deep south, I don't know that I've seen more than 5 or so 'In the wild'. In my life. They're a novelty.
Maybe your area just has 10% while my area has closer to Nil?
Coincidence is not very likely. Apple generally used names that were relevant to apples or which otherwise fell trippingly from the tongue, till the advent of the horribly clunky names, "MacBook" and "MacPro." A Mac book ought to be only a book about the Mac and a Mac pro should be only a Mac tech-cum-poweruser. Besides, how likely is it that some Japanese ad agency could have come up with this word, when 99.44% of the native-speakers of English on this site have never heard of it?
How can openGL, Mac, and Linux have a larger share of the game market than Windows (DirectX) when just about every PC game on the shelf these days says "requires DirectX"? DirectX is also behind the xbox and xbox360 console platforms which means all of those xbox console games are also DirectX. Seriously, who uses exclusively OpenGL for games besides ID and Carmack? They might make OpenGL an option (which doesn't result in a gain for either platform against the other), but how many games are OpenGL only? On the other hand, there are many games which are DirectX only. I like open source too, but I am not wrong.
Apple has succeeded in areas where they take something complicated and make it easy enough for general public. That has been their advantage The original Mac freed users from using command lines. The current lineup makes things like Wi-Fi making movies easy. iPod made digital media players accessible. iTunes made buying music online for your media player easy. The iPhone made surfing and making phone calls less of a headache. Gaming consoles these days are pretty idiot proof. The games are hard but running the console is easy. There isn't an advantage for Apple.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
It's not that they didn't "bother" to upgrade. It's that they were told that OSX 10.5 would support 64-bit carbon, then told about a year later that it wouldn't.
If I were one of the biggest 3rd party developers for the Mac platform, I'd feel pretty disgusted at that decision. I'd be seriously considering whether I could ever trust the Apple development routemap, and where to apply resources first.
Cheapest Macbook in the UK - £729. Cheapest Dell is about half that.
They don't have a larger share. They have a larger base of potential customers. That's what he meant. Since openGL runs on all platforms (including Windows) an openGL game has a larger base of potential customers. The original poster had tried to claim the opposite which is clearly wrong.
Aw crap, ninjas!
I don't know where you are looking because it's entirely the opposite on Amazon.uk. One of equivalent VALUE is more expensive. Check the specs on the machine before opening your mouth.
This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is mine.
Do you really think OpenGL has no trouble with Vista?
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
Mac gamers make up about 3% of Blizzard customers. They wouldn't miss much.
That may be true in theory
No, it's true in fact.
is it really worth the extra trouble to capture whatever potential Mac and Linux customers are left over after all of the Windows sales have been tallied up?
Generally not, but it's irrelevant. I'm not debating you on that point. We're talking about the fact is that using openGL does not limit the number of potential customers. You made a mistake on that point and I'm just trying to see if you will admit it.
it is a moot point
No it's is the entire point. I don't care about the question of whether or not openGL is a better platform for game developers.
Aw crap, ninjas!