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What to Seek in an Older Subnotebook?
cyclomedia writes "I'm looking to buy a subnotebook. For those who think that this form factor was created by the Asus EEE (as, seemingly, does Wikipedia) it might interest you that the current forerunner in my search is a 190MHz,64MB,640x480 256 colour beastie known as the Psion Netbook, circa 2001-ish. Basically, I have a desktop, a server and an Xbox and so truly only want it for surfing, email and the odd bit of SSHing home on weekends away. The aforementioned Psion is, however, of the StrongArm processor variety, which nudges it down on the desireability meter, but the fact that there exist Wi-Fi cards for its 16-bit PCMCIA slot does score it extra points. So, anyone here got any suggestions of what to look out for on ebay? So long as I can play Doom II on it too, that is."
Any other suggestions for wireless capable subnotebooks with better battery life than things like the EEE or HP's 2133 Mininote?
Are you seriously stating that you're considering a 190mhz machine, with 64MB of RAM, with a 640x480 8-bit display, as a web browser? Do you use the same web I do? Even applying CSS rules would crush that machine.
Or maybe the toshiba libereto ..?
Sig:
what do you have against the eee or 2133 mininote? you sound like you're purposely making this hard for yourself. are these old junk laptops stupidly cheap? is the eee really unaffordable for you?
Buy one of these in a month:
http://blog.laptopmag.com/msi-wind-revealed-10-inch-mini-notebook-to-hit-us-in-june
How much do you want to spend on it? In my opinion, I think that the new MSI Wind is a very good alternative.. if you want to spend 399$ in the Linux version and upgrade the battery to get 5.5h.
More info at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MSI_Wind_PC
I had a 12" PowerBook G4 for a number of years, and would recommend it if all you need is web and SSH.
Anybody want my mod points?
You'll be hard pressed to find another subnotebook that has better specs that is cheaper, new or used. They can even run some games that are a few years old (with the windows verity)
in terms of "classic" subnotebooks that are x86 that you still might be able to find is the toshiba libretto line. I think they ranged from 90Mhz to 133 and ran win95. But you'll be hard pressed to find one that the battery still works. Thats really the problem with old laptops is they tend to be broken in someway normally the batteries
I was quite a fan of my Toshiba Libretto 100CT when I had it, it's quite small (210 x 132 x 35 mm) and runs a 166mhz x86 intel pentium 1 mmx. In terms of networking/usb you can use PC Card expansion slots, or get the "Mini Card" (read docking station) which gives you a usb port and more PC Card expansion slots.
Quite a nifty machine for circa 1996, problem is now they fall into the "collector" catagory so some people are paying a fortune for them on ePay.
See also: http://www.toshiba-europe.com/bv/computers/products/notebooks/libretto100ct/index.shtm
Two Parts Swash, One Part Buckle
Here's a 110ct, something along what youre asking for: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150248931102
Heres a u105, something more up-to-date: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170217846018
I dunno, they were always perfectfor me. I especially loved them when I interfaced it with an ol' oki900. ahhh.. the AMPS days...
From Wikipedia: "Subnotebooks have been something of a niche computing product and have rarely sold in large numbers until the 2007 introduction of the Asus Eee PC and the OLPC XO-1[1], which are inexpensive in comparison to both existing machines in that form factor, and computers in general."
That sounds spot on to me. How does that sound anything like it's saying that the form factor was created by Asus? They have been around for ages, it's just in the past they either needed a special striped down OS, were incredibly expensive, had bizarre tiny screen resolutions, or they left out things like keyboards to strip them down in size. Sure NOW you can find some great second hand deals, but they couldn't have possibly been compared as anywhere on the same level in price when they were new.
In fact, the wikipeida article looks like a great list of used models to look for.
The PSP can websurf and login to web email. So can a Treo cellphone, or blackberry, for that matter. They would be better suited to emailing since they have the small keyboard.
PSP can also use Skype, a new feature added with the latest firmware update. You can also watch MP4 movies on the PSP by converting a DVD right from the drive tray to PSP format in a couple clicks with DVDFab. PSP plays mp3s, too. And Wipeout, Tekken, FF, and a lot of other games.
190MHz,64MB,640x480 256 colour?
Minimum Firefox 2 requirements:
* 233 Mhz processor
* 64 MB of RAM
* 50 MB of free disk space
And is there a website left that you wouldn't have to horizontally scroll with a 640 pixel wide screen?
This site is unusable at that resolution for example.
The Netbook totally rocks. IIRC it has 40 hrs of uptime on a single battery load, which blows every protable PC (even the Transmeta Lifebooks pimped with Powerbattery and OD Battery) out of the water. But get your head straight about pocessing power and running some Linux derviate or something on it. That won't fly.
Because, allthough it is a fully fletched out business system with a neat Java 1.1 enviroment on top of some custom Epoc OS (way ahead of it's time), you can absolutely forget any more that rudymentary surfing on that thing. I strongly suggest you get the brand new and super cheap One A110 and hack youself some external power option if you want to reach the Netbooks uptime.
And, yes, uptime is what I'd be looking for in any subnote who's prime purpose is to be used for generic tasks while on the road. In that respect a Netbook really is the bar. But the One A110 and the Asus EEE are the new generation (nearly 10 years newer!) and they are actually those up to the Netbook. I'd say they've re-introduced the Handheld era. Might aswell pay that respect and get one.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
or the 728, as they are great with NetBSD on them. Also may want to consider a Zauras if the price is right.
I really shouldn't be suggesting this.(the price will now go up on ebay.) you could go for a Toshiba Libretto or a sony picture book. if you are just needed to browse the web, you could also try a nokia internet tablet.( not sure about flash stuff though) the HTC universal is great for browsing with opera, minimo, and IE. also there is a program made so you can view youtube on it. there are many other pda's that are great for webbrowsing (just no flash support)
I really dont want to sound like an apple fanboy, but have you considered an iPod touch . I'm on mine now and if you hack it its fine for email, web and ssh. Although getting it to sync over ssh can be a challenge (an one I've not got round actually on 1.1.4), so its probably a deal breaker if you dont have windows or a mac kicking around (fortunately my girlfriend still has a windows laptop kicking around).
its got a fairly good battery life; hours on the web (I think I get over 5 doing normal stuff and a little less watching stuff on the BBC. It can do emails in a similar way to thunderbird and you can stick ssh on it fairly easily from a hack from 1.1.4 using ziphone
*''I can't believe it's not a hyperlink.''
For Websurfing you need a real machine. A subnotebook like the Thinkpad X40 or X41 would be sufficiant (I just got a cheap x41 and I am a very happy customer).
For Email, SSH, and Websurfing using a text browser you could consider something like the Psion Netbook.
The thing that bugs me is that noone seems to have come out with a "new" Psion Netbook. Same configuration, but up to date. With Windows CE (aka Windows Mobile) or Linux, or some other proprietary os. A notebook with very low power and a bad screen that lasts more than 10 hours, but has a full keyboard. But you couldn't play Doom II on that one anyways. Though I wouldn't want to. SSH, email, word processing and organizer with a large screen and a full keyboard would be plenty for me.
Nokia N800 may do exactly what you want, or N810 if you want a keyboard (thumbboard).
...but the fact that there exist Wi-Fi cards for its 16-bit PCMCIA slot does score it extra points You know, this is true. There are non cardbus PC cards. They are a real pain to find. If they know what they are the price goes up, but you might get lucky and find a shop with the them next to the other regular WIFI cards. You might also get lucky and find someone on craigslist who is selling one.Why a pain? Acronym hell! PCMCIA/PCCard/CardBus. To be honest I don't know the difference between PCMCIA and PCCard (is there one?), but I sure know the difference between PCCard and Cardbus. But the problem is everything is advertised as PCCard, whether it's PCCard or Cardbus.
There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary. SHUT UP! There is no shut up. There is no shut up.
... my Fujitsu Lifebook P1120. Only two pounds, running W2K Pro and still works like a champ with its blazing 633MHz Transmeta Crusoe processor and 512M of RAM. Also dual boots with Ubuntu. Great little machine.
That is all.
I mean, real men use lynx anyway right? =D
if you are buying an old machine and you want to travel, look carefully at battery life and replacements.
There was an unknown error in the submission.
Might be not quite suitable for Doom II, but HTC Universal runs the "armel" port of Debian recently, although getting it installed still requires some familiarity with Debian and GNU/Linux in general. "Titchy Mobile will be a complete, fully-native Debian GNU/Linux distribution for the HTC Universal mobile phone, including support for GPRS/UMTS internet access, SMS, and voice calls."
Do it yourself, because no one else will do it yourself. [beta blockade 10-17 Feb]
They're available in various x86 processor and RAM capacities, including Transmeta CPUs; the older models (Celeron 266, PII 300) are quite cheap today. Fat battery packs are available (Sony branded ones cost serious bucks but 3rd party units are a lot cheaper) that will run to 12 hours or more uptime. Replacing the HDD with a SSD will save you more battery power. Linux is readily ported onto most of the C1 variants and they all have PCMCIA or CardBus slots to support WiFi.
The accessory I regret not getting for my old PB was a ballistic-nylon shoulder holster for carrying it around.
I think the new, cheap subnotebooks are great. If you want better battery life, get a bigger internal or an additional external battery. The HP2133 keyboard is unbeatable, and it has a nice screen, too.
If you want something smaller and lighter still, get a smart phone and an external bluetooth keyboard.
I'd recommend this but not if the battery life is your *main* criteria. They've made other C1s later but this is the last model to have a real processor ( PII 400MHz.) Newer models were crappy Transmeta (VIA.)
When did lynx acquire support for CSS?
macbook air is a subnotebook its great
May I introduce you to my friend, Nico Bellic? Except, of course, if cooking is really _that_ important.
A World in a Grain of Sand / Heaven in a Wild Flower,
Infinity in the Palm of your Hand / And Eternity in an Hour.
The EEE has it all...and it's not too expensive. Getting something "a few years old" will only disappoint in the long term.
No sig today...
100, 110, whatever works.
The 110CT was pretty good to me for the years I had it. I think the only difference between the 100CT and 110CT was the processor speed.
I recently got a Nokia N810 "Internet Tablet", as they call it. It's pocket-sized, much smaller than an Eee for instance, and a little bigger than a Palm TX, but it has a 400 MHz TI OMAP CPU (an ARM with a DSP core glued on), an 800x480 screen, a very usable slide-out mini keyboard, and built-in Wi-Fi, all for $400 (street price). Oh, and it runs Linux. (It's not a cell phone, though it will do VOIP over the Wi-Fi.)
Battery life is excellent: several hours of active use, and several days at idle (you don't really turn it off, you just lock the touch screen and it goes into low-power mode). I recently used it to take notes at a seminar -- in 3 or 4 hours I don't think I used more than 1/3 of a charge.
The Web browser it comes with works very well. Some of the other software is a little rough (the email client doesn't work well in IMAP mode, for instance). It runs SSH and a VNC viewer. I don't know about Doom II, but it plays video pretty well (doesn't always keep up with the frame rate, but it's adequate for pr0n).
These things are all tradeoffs, of course, but I'm happy to take the mini keyboard and the small but hi-res display in exchange for a device that's just barely small enough to carry everywhere, clipped to my belt.
Your god may be dead, but mine aren't!
I'm running Ubuntu 8.04 on my wife's old Fujitsu Lifebook P-Series with 1Ghz Pentium M & 512M. The battery has crapped-out after ~4yrs but it still gets ~1hr with wifi et al on full. The form-factor and build quality can't be beat.
In fact, it explicitly lists several models from the early 90s which are clearly not EEE PCs.
I have the 810 and it seems to fit the requirements (including Doom II). Depending on the time you need to spend typing at a keyboard, it may or may not be right for you (or you can choose to get a bluetooth keyboard). If you can withstand typing on a virtual keyboard or get a bluetooth keyboard, the 770 and 800 are dirt cheap on Ebay and quite capable machines (the 800 is basically a fatter 810 without keyboard and GPS and is upgradeable to the same OS version than the 810).
As a Debian-based OS runs the little buggers you probably get the largest functionnality/size ratio out there.
When I was in college I had an old ultra-thin that did two things well - wireless networking and running rdesktop (and obviously X). Very nice and easy solution if you need to connect to a windows Box. I was able to use a 233 Mghz laptop to connect to my home PC and run things like MSDE, Matlab, etc. If I'm not mistaken I had a Toshiba Portege. nice little machine - and super duper light.
Don't forget about the Compaq Concerto, introduced in 1992, noted here in Rune's PC-Museum (scroll down to it) http://pc-museum.com/officewing.htm
and an old 1994 review of the same http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1563/is_n2_v12/ai_15035428
That is, if you're looking for one of the oldest subs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gateway_Handbook
Runs on AA, accepts wireless cards, boots Linux, and I bet it will play Zork and Wizardry just fine.
My 1996 notebook bit the dust recently - both hard disks threw errors left and right, and the thing would no longer boot.
My 2001 notebook is still running but the display is flaky, the keyboard is flaky, the lid hinges are loose, you'd be wasting your time dealing with old hardware.
I used a Sharp mm20 sub-notebook for a few years in college, and it worked really well. 1 GHz transmeta, 512 MB RAM, 20 GB HD, built-in wireless and ethernet, two usb ports, 10" screen. The extended life battery gave about 7 hours of life when I stopped using it. Ran Linux great.
Great laptop till the hard drive died, after a solid 3 years of use. Then I never got around to putting in a new 1.5" HD since I really didn't need it after I graduated.
I wouldn't recommend buying something that old even if the only thing you're going to use it for is surfing. If you're willing to go for something new and you want alternatives to the HP 2133 and Eee PC, then you might consider the Dell Vostro 1310. It's a 13.3" notebook starting at $749 SRP, but you might be able to get it cheaper using the coupons that appear from time to time on dealnews or techbargains. Alternatively, there is a new subnotebook about to come to the market that is competitive with the Eee PC on price, but has better specs: it's the MSI Wind. For more details and the latest news and deals on the subnotebook market check out http://backpackcomputing.com/
The Eee PC has an advantage over the competition: Asus sold the shit out of them. And because they ran Linux first (and WinXP later), there's a ton of various Linux-for-Eee projects going on. And considering all the software that runs on Linux, I'd say the Eee PC is better equipped both in terms of software available for it, as well as replacement hardware (because there are so many of them by now in the world).
"The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
Running 2000. Only windows machine I can stand to use after years of iBooks.
"Win treats sysadmins better than users. Mac treats users better than sysadmins. Linux treats everyone like sysadmins."
The greatest subnotebook ever made was the IBM Thinkpad 701c Butterfly.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterfly_keyboard
I still have one I bought in 1995 and if anyone would release that form factor with modern innards I'd buy it!
I used to have this machine and used it for exactly what you describe. http://h18000.www1.hp.com/products/quickspecs/10381_div/10381_div.HTML
I use a Zaurus C-1000 for this sort of thing. It is about the size of a large wallet, it has both an SD card slot and a CF card slot (which is part of an internal PCMCIA port), host USB port, IR communication port, 640x480 16-bit color screen, and oversized QWERTY thumboard which is surprisingly easy to type on. The device itself functions like a miniature tablet PC--you can twist the screen around and lay it over the keyboard if you want. I run Debian with XFCE on it from a 4 GB SDHC card and use a Marvell 8385 CF card for wifi. It gets between 3 and 5 hours of continuous web-surfing, about 12 hours of continuous usage without any peripherals, and about a week in hibernation. It has no proprietary drivers, so you can run the latest and greatest Linux kernel on it. The only bottleneck on the device is the peripheral flash controller (if you run from SD); other than that, it's pretty snappy as long as you use light-weight software (only 64 MB RAM).
I got mine off eBay for $300, and it came with a wifi card, a bluetooth card, a CF storage card, the AC adapter, a car power adapter, and a back-up power source. For a small Xscale device that lives in your pocket, it's pretty useful.
Why not try out the Northtec Gecko UMPC? http://www.viaarena.com/default.aspx?PageID=5&ArticleID=554 I have bought a rebranded one here in the Philippines named the Deep Blue H1 UMPC It suits my needs very nicely (with my job, I need to bring practically my laptop almost anywhere to access linux servers on call). With 1Gb RAM and a 40Gb harddisk - it is basically priced the same as a eeePC 4G here. And I love the 4.5 hours battery life - works as advertised.
Depending on your particular reasons for wanting a sub-notebook, the Asus S5NE might appeal. I have had one for 4 or 5 years and have been quite happy with it. It has a 12.1" screen, so it's not actually a sub-notebook, but it only weighs 2.8 pounds which makes it unnoticeable in a backpack. It came with a 1Ghz Pentium M processor and 256MB of RAM (upgradeable to 768MB for those who feel the need for more), so it's adequately capable for all of the things you've listed and also plays older games without difficulty. With the extended life battery, Asus claims it will run for 8.5 hours, but I cannot confirm that as I've always stuck with the regular battery. The main reason I like this laptop is that it is very light while still maintaining a normal size screen and keyboard so that I can actually use it.
How about a Sharp Zaurus handheld? Roughly the same specs as the Netbook, though perhaps physically smaller, but it's Linux based.
I've been buying a bunch of old IBM Thinkpad's, model 380z that I friend of mine bought at a school auction for $35 each. I then put in 64MB meg ram for $19. (brings them up to 96MB ram) I fix em up. Load Win XP on em, put in a PCMCIA wireless card and boom, your on the internet. The secret is turning off lots of Windows services that arent needed. I've done 4 so far and the nieces and kids I give em to love em!!
I've got a Sharp Actius PC-MM10 with a 1GHz transmeta chip, 256MB ram, and a 15GB hard drive. It is certainly under powered by today's standard, but it is smaller and lighter than an Apple Air. No optical drive meant I had to do a network install to upgrade the OS to the current Ubuntu release. To keep things light, I only did the base install and then added fluxbox as a lighter windows manager.
First entomology, then virology, and finally bioinformatics systems. Bugs follow me wherever I go.
Exactly what I am looking for in my first pet dog!
The first real subnotebook, the IBM ThinkPad 240, would be right up your alley. Cheap, plentiful, reliable, xl batteries on ebay. Pair it up with FreeBSD/xfce and a 3g card from Verizon and you're done.
everything you ask for is covered by the ipod touch, and you can wait till june 9 to see if there's any update for it. at 299 it is the best choice, along with the EEE
sounds like my MBP -.- minus the 'older subnotebook' part :D
Thinkpad x31/x32/x40/41
I can get ~9 hours battery life with my 4 year old x31 with the extended battery (dual 6 cells in total).
à_à
HTC Tytn or HTC Tytn II - this one is perfect for what you've described.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Parts.
Sony TX series.
Expensive, but well performing (once you strip out all the unnec. crap) and a loooooong battery life. most also have a cell card built in.
I like it, but I am not so much on a budget.
Chuck
Personally, I was a fan of Compaq's m300. It was a subnotebook, about 12 inches with a MEU (media expansion unit) that doubled as a docking station. The last gen I used was a 500MHz with 1GB of RAM. The 9cell (i think it was 9-cell) battery would give me about 6 or so hours on full brightness. The MEU (which is the size of the notebook and just as thick - so instead of a 1" thick machine, you'd have one about 2.5") you could put a CD-ROM/DVD-ROM and an extra multibay battery - giving you another 2 hours or so.
I used one from 2001 to about 2004 as my primary machine, had no issues and the entire laptop was a magnesium alloy, so it could take a beating if need be.
You can still get them on ebay for under 200 bucks
I am the Spirit within The Machine.
If your looking for a great subnotebook at a good price but not looking for high specs, then go for a Thinkpad 240
They usually go on ebay for around $100. Spec wise, They have anywhere from a celeron 300 to a pentium 500. and can officially support 192MB of RAM and unofficially 320MB of ram using speical low density 256MB sticks.
Caveats are they are very hard to get OS'es on them due to the fact they don't support usb booting or have a CDROM. Supposedly they can boot from a PCMCIA CDROM but I never tried. If you like floppies and know enough DOS to detect a USB CDROM, it's not that difficult to get Windows XP on it. Linux is a pain to install without another laptop at your disposal, but it's doable and runs well on it. I just wish someone would make a linux install floppy that would detect usb devices and boot from whatever drive it finds. it would make this install infinitely easier.
The best part is they pull off the Macbook Air Envelope trick as well. It's great going to apple guys, pull it out of an envelope and say "Way to catch up to IBM, and it only took you guys 7 years. It isn't going to take 7 yeart to add a cdrom and a few more USB ports like the X300 is it?"
In Soviet Russia, Trojan exploits YOU!
By chance I put my hands on a couple of Compaq Armada M500, bought from eBay for only ~100â. The only drawback is battery life of original (and used!) standard batteries, while for few extra money you can buy more powerfull ones. You can get as much as 1024x768 (there are models with 800x600 too) with Radeon Mobility, yes, run Linux (I tried Etch and Sidux), and browse with both PCMCIA and USB wifi devices. You can watch smoothly DVD's and DivX movies. And last thing: DosBox+Cannon Fodder is simply great on that machine! eNjoy
If you are looking for a good sub-notebook, and dont mind having a cd drive that is external, then the Dell Latitude L400 might do it for you. the thing is pretty small, has either a 500 or 750Mhz processor, battery life around 3-4hrs. the screen res is 1024x768, max mem 256mb (more than enough for a win xp pro or linux install). one can be had for around 200-300 on ebay. i actually just sold mine for $250 with a dock, cd drive, floppy, 2 chargers. (I have the Lenovo ThinkPad x61t to replace it, also a great subnotebook, but with a somewhat hefty price tag)
mine has 1.4 P3m, 512 RAM, 60GB HD, external DVDRAM (shared with my PP01 Latitude* and Inspiron** models), built in wifi (standard mpci). Can be had for the same price as an EeePC and the screen is four times the size. 1024x768 in a 12.1" panel and 2.8lb weight (including battery), and shy of an inch thick. Batteries are still available, I have one spare and the two batteries last me the entire day. Had that puppy for six years now and it's never, ever given me any trouble (except when I shot the panel and it was down for a week while I sourced a new one), it still does what I ask of it. I'll keep it going just as long as I can get batteries and other spares for it.
* & **: I have a shelfload of these (well, twenty or so) in varying states of functionality. They're just too damn handy to have; if I need spares for one, I take it off another. From PII through P4, how many notebook computers can claim that commodity? Right down to keyboards, heatsinks, fans, drive caddies, bay modules including batteries, even video boards! Big plus is if I do have to carry a power supply, I only need one for any one of them. With the secondhand market beginning to flood with P3 and P4 Latitudes and Inspirons, I'm set for notebooks (and spare parts for them) for the rest of my life.
Keep your Vaios and your Librettos and your EeePCs, I'm happy with my Dell kit.
Operation Guillotine is in effect.
Actually, I'm looking to upgrade... but for the time being I'm still using my 933MHz Crusoe powered P2120 with 256M of RAM. I'm still trying to find a suitable successor...
But yeah... aside from being a little underpowered these days, it's full of awesome.
I certainly won't buy one like that. Even for free it would likely end up in the dumpster before long. Thre are so many low cost, nice new ones out there that buying an old one doesn't make sense.
Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
Surfing, VOIP, Games (& I mean Games!) How about a PSP when those Sony add-on keyboards are released?
I'd shoot for a Compaq N200. You can also get a Compaq TC1000 tablet cheap. The N200 is really slim and small. 10" screen, 700Mhz, etc...
See also the Nokia n800 -similiar, no built-in keyboard or GPS, but much cheaper and takes SDHC cards.
The Nokias also runs Doom, (not doom2?).
Can even run VoIP over your 3G cellphone.
The webbrowser and screen is much better than any phone or PDA, but its not much bigger.
If thats still not good enough, I'll second the IBM X40 (used).
I recently bought a very old used HP Omnibook 800ct on ebay. These puppies are Pentium 133's with 16mb of RAM. I installed NetBSD on mine using the lap floppies and it downloaded the rest over the netbsd ftp.. this thing boots in about 30 seconds and it is ready to rock with everything i need thanks to fluxbox.. makes a great portable thinclient and SSH tool.. I got mine for $70 including shipping with a working battery..
*plays the Apogee theme song music*
I've always been a big fan of Toshiba Libretto's.
:P
The first one I had, circa 1999-2000, was the size of a VHS casette and fairly competent for its day
A couple of years ago, I upgraded to the newer 100CT, with a couple of gig of ram and such. It's a nice machine. Definitely takes getting used to the keyboard, but for portability, it can't be beat. And just throw a bluetooth or USB keyboard and external display on it when you're tethered.
But when you're on the road, tossing it in a small camera bag, having 5 hours of battery life for the long flights, having room for your laptop and a drink and not worrying about being crushed by the seat in front of you, is very liberating. Similarly, fitting into a small camera bag (honestly, it's not a purse), it goes with me everywhere; I pop it out at the pub or a restaurant or on the road.
Despite the fact I happened to snag one at Future Shop (ugh), in general subnotebooks are something the public doesn't even seem to know exists. I get a lot of comments from people just fascinated by it, thinking it must just be a Windows CE machine at first, and being blown away when they realize how powerful it is.
There is one downside: one time on a flight, the female flight attendant saw it, pointed down towards my lap, and said loudly, "wow, that's the smallest one of those I ever saw!" With the ensuing laughter, she turned many shades of red...
I just tell people that with such a small laptop, I'm clearly not trying to compensate for anything
Love many, trust a few, do harm to none.
So basically, you're looking for something worse than an iPod but a whole lot bigger?
Seriously, get an iPod touch and jailbreak it. Sounds like that'll allow it to do everything you want, and at as low as $230 on Amazon, there's not much reason not too. Except, of course, the lack of any good interface and the screen size. But depending on what you need it for, it may work quite well. Battery life is phenomenal too - I don't know exactly how long mine lasts, but I know it's over 10 hours. And most of that is playing games, not music.
- Likes to talk, humorous, friendly.
BonziBUDDY pre-installed.- Likes movies, walks along the beach at sunset, and recharging by an open fireplace.
No fans/vents for sand to get in.- Likes cooking.
Poor thermal design, or maybe overclocked.- Has own job.
Part of a botnet.- Light enough to carry with one hand.
Not a "desktop replacement".- Happy with all positions, including upside-down and backwards.
Solid-state disk, so there's nothing to break when you drop it.- Color is not important to me, but dress sense is.
Thinks its a Mac.- Looking for casual to long term commitment. Emphasis on fun.
Compatible with most off-the-shelf (and under-the-table) games.Well you might think that, but I was thinking more along the lines of "I can have the thing open next to the stove to read off the recipe and not worry about flour and oil splatters getting onto it"
Part of a botnet.Ok, maybe I'll settle for an unemployed subnotebook then!
Do it yourself, because no one else will do it yourself. [beta blockade 10-17 Feb]
I own several Dell Latitude C400s and I think they are the greatest laptop ever. Lightweight, very sturdy, USB, PCCard, internal wifi card, no internal drive and best of all, a 6 hour add-on battery pack is out there if you can grab one when they show up. Plus lots of other pros, Get one.
The IBM 240X is very compact, (no internal CD-ROM) is fast enough (barely) to play divx video files, has USB, up to 128 Megs ram, and with the extended battery, will run longer than many current laptops. Add a wifi card and you have pretty much everything you need.
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
10.4" Screen
Pentium III ~500MHz
Watch out for the Celeron variants - I think they are just '240' with no x... They only have a 66Mhz bus IIRC.
Anyway, this computer is awesome! I used to boot one off a thumbdrive with DOS and play Doom on it... Doom II would surely play and I bet you could do alright with Quake III Arena for that matter.
Try the eMate 300: Instant boot, easy-to-read screen, handwriting recognition, carrying handle, and only $50 on Ebay!
I'd like to second the parent's recommendation. I've got an iPod touch, and I've actually taken to using it as my "always-ready" PC. Here's why:
;-)
- apt-get (with Cydia, a rather nice GUI)
- full BSD subsystem (available through Cydia) -- note: this is not the same as the stripped down one on the device, or the one available through Installer.app -- it's a full-fledged toolset, akin to that on desktop Mac OS X
- full OpenSSH port (both client and server)
- usable as a drive, with contents shared via both AppleShare and Samba
- 420Mhz ARM w/ 128 MB RAM
- really light
- portable: its as thin as a pencil
- cheap ($229 for 8G refurb from Apple -- that includes a 1 year warranty)
- real-world battery life of around 5 hours using WiFi (my best for surfing, etc is around 5:05)
- real-world battery life of around 8 hours for non-WiFi "desktop replacement" stuff (typing, mucking about on the command-line, etc.)
- real-world battery life of around 16 hours for music playback
- kick-ass browser (likely better than you'll be able to do on an old subnotebook)
There is one downside: DOOM isn't in a playable state yet, although there is a port in progress. Still, I think SCUMMVM and Frotz make up for that
...when you can have the full she--bang in just as small a package with the Oqo E2.
Agreed, it's on the expensive side, but think of what you're getting...its very reasonable for the price.
Essentia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem.
I got a Thinkpad 570 a few years ago off eBay to serve as my laptop. It comes in 266 and 366 MHz flavors (PII), and supports up to 192 MB RAM. For mobility purposes, the battery life is around two hours (I had the battery refilled). The most important feature of this laptop is the USB port. I run Windows 2000.
~$100 Thinkpad 570, 266 MHz, 192 MB SDRAM
~$80 40 GB HD (this was years ago)
~$15 Floppy drive
~$80 Battery refill
I'm thinking about getting an SSD too, to see what effect it'll have on battery life. When the X200 comes out, though, I may just spring for it and put my 570 aside.
I picked up an LS a couple of years ago as a disposable lappy to take with me on a 2 month journey through South America by backpack.
The only problem I ran into what that I put an el-cheapo HD in it that couldn't handle the vibrations of extended rough traveling conditions.
It was a PIII @ 1ghz had 512 of ram when I bought it (upgraded to 1GB for like $60), and a good full speed PCMCIA slot in addition to an internal Mini-PCI slot.
The screen was ample with its roughly 12" form factor, but not overly high res (I think it maxxed out at either 600x800 or 1026x768 can't recall).
Anyway I got it on ebay as a corporate liquidation of leased machines for $100 buy it now, only hitch was that it was bios locked, so I had to practice a little social engineering on Dell support to get the unlock code, but no big deal...
I ended up giving it to my mom after I got home and she has used it as a basic web machine since then and refuses to give it back.
Oh and I got a new battery for it (that had like 25% higher capacity than the factory one) for like $20, apparently the Chineese knockoffs are getting better quality wise, although this particular model of batt must have been over produced cuz they were going for peanuts on ebay...
Really great computer overall I am actually thinking about buying another for the very same thing you are wanting one for.
Oh and it runs XP no problems, sure it would be faster on some flavor or *nix but I do alot of windows domain/network administration so I like having those capabilities when I occasionally work from home on it...
I've been using an IBM X30 for about 2 years now. 12 inches, only a few pounds, 1.2 PIII, 512 RAM, 40 GB HD. Runs Firefox, Winamp, Thunderbird, and MS Office like a champ. I'd suggest getting an X31 or up as they include USB 2.0 where the X30 does not.
I've been reading this thread all afternoon/evening... without built in Wifi (a dongle? REALLY?) you are just settling for less than you really want.I've got to admit, I'm pretty impressed with the EeePC. Posting from it now, even...
;)
Much of the "work" I do with a laptop involves a web browser. With the built in WiFi and the ample (trust me) 640x400 screen, it makes browsing from the couch exactly what it should be. The battery life is a little less than it should be for a machine this size but otherwise I've been very impressed.
It hasn't become -- nor should it be -- a desktop replacement... but the ability to RDP into my other home/work machines and suddenly having a subnote that runs Visual Studio is pretty nice.
I would have to say that explosives are the most abused technology in all of history.
....what is this you speak of? The 'web' as you say, what is that, it seems most peculiar. No I am not a insensitive clod, but elaborate on this 'internet' you speak of...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NEC_UltraLite.
The Toshiba Libretto did have a hard disk, as did the Fujitsu Lifebooks B112 and B142, the latter offering both USB-1 and a tactile screen very useful with Windows or KDE. If Fujitsu intends to offer a EEE-like PC, the B142 form factor would be a quite acceptable candidate. I wonder if they will do it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toshiba_Libretto
http://sandbox.cz/~covex/hw/b112/
Signature omitted in order to save space. Thanks for your understanding.
Hi,
I have an HTC Mogul cellphone that does everything you want and a bit more. The display is qvga (quarter vga) but I can literally use it anywhere my carrier has service and I only have a single device to carry.
EVDO, Wireless, bluetooth and GPS are all built in and I can use it as an internet connection (via USB ) to an otherwise isolated PC.
The single thing to remember factor more than makes up for the screen size (well, that and my glasses).
Oh and it's like $200 from sprint so you can leverage whoever else supports it for the same price.
I've had two Psion 3as, I still have a Psion 3c, I'd love a Psion 5 series and we still have Horace goes Skiing for the Spectrum
But the Netboook is not the travelling friend you want.
MAYBE a Toshiba Libretto MIGHT just be usable now, put Puppy Linux on it and write your own drivers but I got myself an Asus EEE and I am happy with it.
FYI, I've been looking for a 16 bit PCMCIA WFI card for my aging laptop, and haven't found one. I now use an USB one... (Of course they used to be available "back then", but I couldn't find a reasonably priced one now....)
look for
Toshiba libretto
Closed it has the dimensions of the VHS video tape. (without port replicator (Port replicator is the predecessor of the docking stations))
http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?from=R40&_trksid=m37&satitle=toshiba+libretto&category0=
It is, however quite expensive.
With eee you get much more bang for your buck.
Mine has got Pentium processor 90MHz. I used it for reading e-books.
If you set the harddisk to stop after certain inactivity time (mine was set to 2 minutes) the notebook makes about as much noise as a calculator.
If you connect 8GB CF card instead of harddisk you can have dream machine.
If you want to have something even MORE minimalistic look for HP Jornada pocket PC.
My personal emergency PC is a Sony Vaio C1 Picturebook. The VFK model with bluetooth. 650Mhz, 128mb of RAM (upgradable to 192mb) and a standard, easily replaceable 2.5" ide hard disk. Not the speediest machine in the world but I gave it a bit of a kick by installing Xubuntu. The only downside I'd say is the size of the screen. At 1024x480 I sometimes have trouble fitting entire dialog boxes onto the sceen. However I think there's a better version... Possibly the C1M, that had an 800Mhz processor, 256Mb of RAM and a 1280x800 resolution screen. The size of a hardback book, I'd heartily recommend it.
"There are three schools of magic..."
I have had a Sony 505 for the last five years. Upgraded the hard disk to 30GB. 300mhz, 128megs, runs XP with all non-required services disabled; only 96megs of ram in use at boot. I love the 1024x768 screen resolution (only in some models). I haven't had a battery for about three years, but with a 12v inverter and power adapters it has been fine. Only weighs 3lbs.
It's been across the country multiple times, and to much of Europe. Use it for photo storage, as a car mp3 player, web surfing, read books, and even once for emergency Flash development (client needed work while I was on the road.) I must admit, that I remote desktop to a VMware machine on my server to surf the web whenever possible. The 505 works, but it's terribly nice to have enough ram to open some tabs.
People/Clients/Friends are still amazed that it is a ten year old machine. Many people think that I just bought it.
Nerd show!!!
The Samsung Q10 (or Dell x200, respectively) is an extremely fine machine with very long battery runtime, and due to the architecture of its docking station, the notebook itself is very thin and lightweight.
This may be both a more expensive and more powerful machine than you were originally seeking. But I have a Q10 myself, and for every model of the new, cheap subnotebooks that came out I thought "hey, that would make a fine notebook for surfing and mail" -- but, well, the Q10 does everything those machines do and weighs hardly more. Plus, it runs longer and has a larger screen (12.1") and keyboard.
An often overlooked one is the Thinkpad 240. I have one with a 366 Celeron, 128MB, 6Gig. It does well with the web even if it is a bit slow. It runs linux great and XP a little slowly.
http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Category:240
So there are many sub-notebooks in the 200mhz-1ghz range.
What do you install on them? I'm sure Ubuntu won't make fun on any of them...
I got the IBM X21 Subnotebook an I'm so happy with it!
For about 200$ you get an unbreakable notebook with PIII 700mHz.
Runs great with Ubuntu Linux.
Instant on
Long battery life (8 hrs)
Touch typable keyboard (75% of full size)
Small form factor (pocketable)
Runs linux (JLime)
PCMCIA (wifi 802.11b)
CF card (storage)
You should get in touch with Panasonic. Maybe they will make a ToughEEE. Alternatively, you could just put your subnotebook in a clear plastic bag.
USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
416mhz ARM
64MB RAM
6GB Micro Drive
640x480 16k colors
SD slot
CF slot
IR
Full usable keyboard
Small enough to fit into your pocket and runs several different distros of Linux.
ive got a couple of these old notebooks and theyre great. stuff a wireless card in them and they chug along fine for web surfing, ssh, remote desktop, etc.. i still depend on one daily
though truthfully ive been eyeing a new eeepc, if i wasnt so cheap id get one.
nauseum_dot does have a point:
sub-notebook- $75
specific ram upgrade to 512 MB- $75
battery replacement- $50
PCMCIA 54g card- $30
Total= $230 + 4 hours time to reformat upgrade, etc.
I would think the EE @ $299 looks like a better buy because you also get a warranty. Let's face it notebooks are commodity goods now."
Hear, hear. Great little machines. Though, I'd still get an Eee (and, in fact, I did...).
I just picked up 2 panasonic t2s from a dude at the MIT swap on sunday. Sharp little(12") screen, and really, really light(maybe 2 lb with battery and no HDD). Built like a tank too; I'm not worried about it bouncing around when I'm riding my bike, and running off a flash drive, the battery life is good too.
No Subnotebook beats an IBM 701. The thing is as solid as a tank, but having a full sized keyboard. Its just too great.
I originally got it to practice shell scripts during the morning commute. But as time went on, and GenToo 's support for the CT6535. First Slackware supported it, and now that GenToo supports it, its just fantastic. Even though its still a 486, just running a shell its great.
Specifically, the Lifebook P-1120 or similar. These run a transmeta processor (and so won't be the fastest kids on the block), but they come with wireless and are easily powerful enough to browse the web, run Doom, etc. I used one of these as my main computer for a couple years.
Review of the P-1120:
http://reviews.cnet.com/laptops/fujitsu-lifebook-p1120-crusoe/4505-3121_7-7589509.html
You can get them on Ebay for under $200:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Fujitsu-Lifebook-P1120-w%2F-Spare-Battery_W0QQitemZ110253486087QQcmdZViewItem?IMSfp=TL0805171070a18304
The machine was pretty durable in my experience--it survived a lot of rough handling in a college student's backpack.
- - - - - - - -
Don't worry, being eaten by a crocodile is just like going to sleep in a giant blender.
My wife just got one of those. It's got a nice, responsive touch screen, wifi, built-in GPS, a web cam, SD card slot, and it runs a nifty version of Linux called Maemo that has a very active user community.
You can easily find them for under $400.
--- Tao
What do you use ssh for that doesn't, at some point, require a CTRL or ESC key?
I have an iPhone, I installed ssh, I logged into a server... but could I edit a file using vi or nano? No.
Hell, I couldn't even figure out how to exit the editor. It's fine for ssh if all you need to do is run the occasional command, but I wouldn't call it a viable terminal.
I have a Thinkpad 560X, have used mainly as a second notebook. It works very fine and I made many different tests with it. Used with a 10 GB hard Drive with a mixed Windows Xp and Debian alike(Kurumin-br-pt) distribution. also used a CF IDE adaptor with a 1 Gb compact flash with Damn Small Linux. Setup IBM Thinkpad 560X 200 Mhz Pentium MMX 96 MB RAM D-LINK PCMCIA 32 Bit Wireless card 3Com Ethernet 1 USB 1.1 Port No floppy, no CD-ROM http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Category:560X I also have a ASUS EEEPC. I really recomend older IBM stuff for this purpose.
It's not spam. I focus on the UMPC/sub-notebook market on my website. The link is if you want more information. If you don't, then don't click on the link. If you do click on the link, you'll find a website that covers the UMPC/sub-notebook market. It's free to visit. I don't have a pecuniary interest in any particular product. Have you even visited the website? Don't be so quick to judge without knowing the facts. It's really the pot calling the kettle black when the accuser is posting anonymously!
The older (~2001-2004) P-1000 series Fujitsu Lifebooks are fantastic - small, rugged, touchscreen, built-in wifi, and reasonably decent processors (e.g. 800MHz and up).
I worked extensively with the P-1000 model back in '03 or so, and found them to be an outstanding piece of hardware. And, at least at the time, they were quite friendly with the Linux distros that I tried on them.
The older ones are kind of hard to find, because again, they are great machines, but every now and then you can find a good deal on eBay.
Tt
o 1 Sig beneath your current threshold