Slashdot Mirror
KDE 4.1 Released, Reviewed
StoneLion writes "After months of development and controversy, the KDE project announced the release of KDE 4.1 today. Linux.com (a Slashdot sister site) took a hands-on look at the new code, and reviewer Jeremy LaCroix says, 'KDE 4.1 simply rocks.'" Bruce Byfield's review is quite positive, as well.
Do we really need notification of a (dot)1 release?
You must be new here.
It's a pretty significant feature release and is probably a better example going forward of KDE4 can become than the .0 release was
When it's a vast improvement over the (dot)0? Yes.
Not normally, but in this case the 4.0 release was mostly to let people know they could work from that - 4.1 is supposedly the usable version :-)
Does anyone know where one can obtain Fedora 9 packages? I've been suffering through 4.0 for a while and I'd love to be able to upgrade, but I'd prefer to use fedora's package management rather than compiling it myself. It's just simpler.
Yes.
KDE doesn't need you and has no obligation to do anything for you.
Jesus tap dancing Christ, do you people ever shut up?
I was really excited and happy when I saw how nice it looked and then I saw the battery meter and was like yes it looks crisp and nice. Then the thought settled in "I got rid of my laptop so I wont have a battery meter for my desktop noooooo!!!!(Darth Vader Style)".
http://www.kde.org/download/#v4.1
Here is a picture of the recommended minimum system requirements for Vista:
http://blogs.technet.com/blogfiles/markrussinovich/WindowsLiveWriter/PushingtheLimitsofWindowsPhysicalMemory_878B/image_4.png
Not that I'm defending Vista, but KDE isn't an operating system.
Using a KDE release to rag on Vista's stability is like using a new product line from BF Goodwrench to rag on Ford Explorers.
I would say though, that KDE appears to kick GDI+'s ass. I haven't played around with KDE 4 or Aero enough to make such a comparison though.
-Rick
"Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
Is Firefox 3 still looking like ass on KDE, and when you attempt to make it use KDE themes, the scrollbars disappear?
Does KDE still ignore any preferences about what you set your resolution to, then suddenly switch your resolution only when you open the resolution changer program?
From TFA (because I know some of you may not read it or at least not all of it:
"...users with Nvidia graphics cards and proprietary drivers may notice slowdown when resizing windows or moving plasma widgets, although I did not experienced this during tests with my Nvidia hardware."
Closer, but not quite there yet. Small problems like this are what is holding it back. However, with that said, I, for one, can't wait to get my hands on this.
I will bend like a reed in the wind.
The third link in the summary is performing very well. Either nobody's interested, or it's running on some pretty impressive hardware.
I've been waiting for the 4.1 release before trying 4.x. I didn't care for 3.x and while I'm not a huge fan of GNOME, I like it well enough for daily use. So, good news for be because it looks like Kubuntu has deb packages ready to install with a few easy steps ... thinkin' I'll give it a whirl tonight.
Hopefully they've gotten rid of that freakin' kidney shaped thing in the upper right corner. Talk about a useless static "feature". ugh!
"Klaatu, verada, necktie!" -Ash
Sorry but Linux.com and Bruce Byfield praising KDE is like PC Magazine praising Vista.
I would like to some more critical reviews.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
but does it run on windows?
Since KDE 4.0 was never meant for users (I've read multiple articles about how it was only supposed to be for developers to get their KDE software ported) and 4.1 was supposed to be for "general use", I'd say this *did* warrant mention on slashdot.
bork bork bork!
I actually changed distros (to Slackware) because I wasn't pleased with the state of KDE 4.0. I guess this means that I may be changing my distribution for the second time in a month now that 4.1 is out.
I just hope that even if there problems persist, people will lay off on the personal attacks on the devs. That is not cool.
Windows 2000 was NT 5.0. XP was NT 5.1. Wouldn't the release of XP warrant a notification? Version numbers don't actually mean anything. Some vendors create a new major version every 3 months, with no modifications, while others only go from x.1 to x.11 every 3 years, yet add tons of functionality along the way.
Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
I think it's more of a proprietary issue, but for those that have switched to 4.x, does kdm still freeze when you shut down X?
The greatest experience we can have is the mysterious.
- Albert Einstein
I'm a lot more concerned about the substance of the release than what number they throw on it.
For instance, MacOS has only had point releases for going on a decade now. In this case, the release is a huge improvement over the point-oh-no.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
Not that it can't be themed, but to me the default kde 4 and 4.1 screenshots I've seen are just down right ugly. I much prefer the look of gnome and even kde 3.5
Here and here there are some screencasts showing off some Plasma features.
A CC-licensed illustrated horror novel
What I would like to see includes better fonts and more useful and complete help files. I also miss Amarok.
I have had my disappointments too. My college website will not allow Konqueror. Plug-in installation still needs work so that it is as smooth as that on Windows XP.
I have nothing but praise for KDE developers who insisted that we needed a new way of doing things in KDE and therefore started developing KDE 4.0. At that time, I did not see any reason why we needed a new paradigm. Now I see the reason. Thank you so much.
For the adventurous that have been using KDE 4, which distros do you think have done the best job at packaging it? Also will they be releasing packages for KDE 4.1 shortly, or are they waiting for their next normal release cycle?
I've been having all sorts of kernel/Xorg headaches with Hardy Heron, and am looking to dump it. I'm planning on moving all my must-have software to another box running Debian stable which will free up my desktop to experiment with a new distro.
I'm hard pressed to think of anything missing
Not that's what I call real target audience. Without Amarok, kile (at least the last time I checked) and some others, there's no way for me to switch from KDE3. Maybe I'm one stupid prick, but I care more about my applications than the DE and the looks, since it's the apps I use the DE for in the first place.
And about Dolphin... I hated its first plans back in the days, I hated the first versions, and there's still nothing in it that would make me like it more then konqueror. I find it a sorry excuse of a "simplified" file manager [or whatever you might call it] and I wish it vanished from the face of this earth.
I am putting myself to the fullest possible use, which is all I can think that any conscious entity can ever hope to do.
Someone knows where have packages for Slackware? I tryed compile the source, but do not work (too many strange dependences from thirdy party librarys, test on Slackware 12)
(do not the bad english, I not american)
Religion: The greatest weapon of mass destruction of all time
After months of development and controversy
I've never been sure why there was much controversy. The various announcements around the time of the 4.0 release and in advance made it clear that KDE 4 was the entire new desktop (in all its future versions) with new core technologies like Phonon and Plasma, whereas KDE 4.0 was the very first release of said desktop, wherein the underlying technologies were frozen so that developers could start using them, but the apps and desktop were incomplete.
I tried it as a LiveCD and the desktop experience was lukewarm, so I went back to 3.5. But I never wrote off KDE 4. No one should have, and there never should have been any controversy, considering what 4.0 was. The 4.1 release is the one people have actually been waiting for, since the apps and desktop components have had time to adjust to the new libaries, so if you adopted 4.0 thinking it would be your new desktop and you hated it, you probably jumped the gun. Have another look.
I'm bugged by something he says in this review and I see reviewers doing it all the time: "everything ran fast and smooth, even when I had six plasmoids in use and desktop effects turned on, even on a modest 1.6GHz laptop." He's using the old megahertz myth. If he's using a 1.6GHz Centrino 2, I doubt that I'll see the same performance on my 1.8GHz Sempron that's four years old.
but does it run on windows?
actually... somewhat. Not the desktop environment itself, I dont think, but KDE applications. I wasnt able to get it to work when i tried it a few months ago. it might be working better now.
And, taking previous releases of KDE as example, 4.5 will be the full-fledged, stable version, so it will also worth a note ;-)
(no flames, please, I'm a KDE user, too)
The article lines up pros and cons, though it is names "KDE4.1 Rocks!" actually appears rather fair and objectiveish. It claims the significant problems with 4.0 has been addressed. The earlier discussions here on /. have more or less focused on KDE4.0 being incomplete, which was taken to mean either incomplete as a desktop platform (insufficient basic functionality, such as icons, menus, expected behaviour etc) or desktop environment (complete set of application), and it is in this light that the article should be taken.
... is a container you can place on the desktop that can show the contents of any directory. Most distributions set one up in the default configuration to show the contents of the desktop folder, but you are no longer limited to having the contents of just the desktop folder displayed on your desktop -- you can add several instances of Folder View, each showing a different directory." This addresses the popular misconception and marketing catastrophe of KDE4 now having desktop icons.
... may notice slowdown when resizing windows or moving plasma widgets"
* KDE 4.1 Plasma panels are now resizable and you can have multiple , and they can be repositioned by dragging them by mouse.
* "The Folder View plasmoid
* The article raves about the beauty of KDE4.1.
* Application support has grown and out-of-the-download contains Konqueror, Dolphin, Gwenview, Kopete, JuK, Kontact, the KDE CD Player, and the minimalistic Dragon Player for videos
* Dolphin has been improved with tree view and tabbed browsing features.
* Is is faster than KDE4.0, "everything ran fast and smooth, even when I had six plasmoids in use and desktop effects turned on, even on a modest 1.6GHz laptop".
* "The new interfaces may take some getting used to by those accustomed to KDE 3. "
* "Nvidia graphics cards
* Amarok 2.0 is still not complete
The article is finished by saying that the author has finally replaced KDE3 as his production DE with KDE4.1.
In short, whether by design or by listening to the criticism, KDE4.1 seems to have addressed if not all then at least the most important warts of the unfortunate 4.0 release. I'll probably still wait for 4.2, but as a KDE fan I'm certainly excited!
I've got to say, Kubuntu Hardy with KDE4 was extremely disappointing. Neither Ubuntu nor KDE provided a functional wifi manager - The Network Settings application shared by many Ubuntu desktops couldn't write a interfaces file that preserved WEP keys, and was insanely cludgy. Steal some code from Maemo, people.
More KDE4 specific, using it stripped me of any sort of effective GUI-based power management. Hibernation, sleeping, and battery usage controls were completely absent. All it brought to the table was a (commonplace and unimpressive) battery monitor.
I enjoy using KDE4, but I really hope they're getting their acts together with this release, so far as laptops go.
Any integrated distros or VMWare images with KDE 4.1 I can try? Yes, I could download the packages - build it from source even, but I'm sure some busy bees have it ready somewhere.
-- Sig down
People with openSUSE 11.0 can just click here to run the one click installer or go to http://news.opensuse.org/2008/07/29/kde-41-released-with-opensuse-packages-and-live-cd/ (or KDE developers)
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
Did you spend much time using Kontact or any of the PIM applications individually? I can't live without KMail or KOrganizer, and haven't heard much about them in the KDE 4.1 prerelease reviews I've read other than the fact that they are included.
...they actually got it right. I had been worried about "no desktop icons" but the reality is that I still have them, and can have more than one folder represented on the desktop. Well done KDE devs. You've (mostly) redeemed yourselves for the whole KDE 4.0 fiasco!
I know I'm probably in the minority running Fedora instead of an Ubuntu release but I'm thoroughly unimpressed with the Fedora Project in keeping up with something like this. The KDE 4.1 release is sitting in rawhide like a coiled snake waiting to pounce, and what happens when I install it? It fails on a series of icons. Who does that?? And to RingDev, you're absolutely right KDE isn't an O/S and Windows isn't either. Windows is a GUI that sits on an unstable CLI, they just hide it more/better.
Which is stupid, the Windows explorer shell is useless and there's nothing special about KDE apps other than their DE integration.
So far I've had the following issues/nags/etc:
* Using the resize on the upper right of the new menu instantly made the default size *bigger*, which isn't what I wanted, and there was no way to resize back to even its default size.
* Input Actions don't work at all. Yes, the action and the group it's in are not disabled, and KHotKeys daemon is activated from Global Settings. No key combos work.
* The main panel glitched out and everything was horribly spaced out when I tried to add and remove widgets from it; I had to completely recreate a new panel to fix it.
* While it's not exactly slow, it does have several slow redraw issues (e.g. the classic launcher menu) and I've seen it lag at random times much more than KDE3 ever did. I know this is probably to be expected, but it's worth noting. No, I don't use desktop effects (compositing), as I've seen that slows things down much more in general (games, etc) than it helps with desktop elements.
* System Settings crashed on me on more than one occasion.
Overall, much better than the completely unusable 4.0, but they still have a long way to go to make KDE4 even remotely stable.
KDE is an operating system in the same sense of the word that Windows is. It's the graphical shell that runs on top of the kernel.
Technically Vista is a new shell and set of services that run on top of the NT kernel. Of course, the NT kernel has been badly wounded for Vista (DRM thrown in, existing driver infrastructure removed, etc.), and the services are slow, memory intensive, and basically worthless, but it's comparable to KDE.
Sure, KDE is only really comparable to some portion of Vista (and more than just the UI, you have to remember various background services), but it's still comparable.
Much of what's new in Vista is eye candy. Much of the instability has to do with changed user libraries and a changed UI.
Of course, more of the instability has to do with the kernel being screwed with and KDE hasn't changed the kernel. Vista is more analogous to a complete Linux distro, and as any long-time Linux user is aware, it's perfectly possible for a Linux distro to be buggy and crash-prone.
But analogies can be made between KDE and Vista, ESPECIALLY in the Aero and 3D desktop aspects. They're both implemented as services on top of existing infrastructure.
And Vista takes far, far more memory and CPU to do its eye candy than KDE does. I don't know about stability, but given my experiences with Vista, KDE would have to cause applications to crash routinely to be comparable.
i've been using kde4.1 for a couple of days now and it is pretty great. there are a few annoyances however....
-khotkeys doesnt work for me
-desktop search doesn't seem to work (ala strigi)
-artifacts left in the system tray
I don't get it. Why all the fuss about the desktop background? It is just a background after all, and hidden by any windows you have open.
From observing 'ordinary users' running Windows, they use the desktop background for starting programs which have a shortcut there - because the Start menu is so congested with crap, they don't even look at it and are often incapable of running anything not on the desktop. Because of this most Windows application installers have taken to adding a desktop shortcut as well as a Start menu item. Of course in the long term this 'icon inflation' will make the background itself unusable and we'll have to think of something else. I can't help feeling that just making a usable Start menu would be a better answer.
The second use of the desktop background is because files get saved there by default from your web browser. Again, this seems to be because unsophisticated users have no idea of directories and if it doesn't go on the background, they can't find it. But on Unix everyone has a home directory and I'd expect KDE (or GNOME) to provide easy access to that directory, even for people who aren't aware that any other location exists.
The kind of technically skilled people who used to run Enlightenment probably enjoy having semitransparent widgets flip into shape in 3d on the background, but I don't see what usability advantages that brings. Would it not be simpler to make the background be a background - just blank? There is no difficulty in putting one application window _underneath_ another, so you will see it when the top window is moved or minimized out of the way.
-- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
I look at this screenshot linked from the article however and I see a confusing mash-up of design agendas. Dolphin file manager looks drab and strangely cluttered with shallow implied 3D for tabs and other delimiters yet the OS X style scroll bars bulge out. What are those scrollbars supposed to be made of? Blown glass? Gel? The panel at the bottom caves in with greater depth than the background image.. The simulated lighting model they're using to shade elements come from all over the place. I can count about 3 contradicting implied directional lights, from the panel to the icons to the widgets themselves..
Other things confuse: What is that Logitech logo doing in the top-right corner? Those tiny minimise/maximise buttons look like they're from another universe entirely: not echoed in any other element on the desktop, lest of all the stripey title bar.
I'm not convinced much effort has been spent on making KDE look 'stunning'..
KDE was very tweakable last time I looked so I'm sure someone will come up with a unifying theme. Glad to hear stability and speed have been greatly improved.
STILL can't hide system tray icons?
This is a big problem for me. I don't have a widescreen monitor, so the system tray is taking over the panel, squeezing my task bar to a frustratingly small size.
KDE3 has an excellent system tray icon hiding mechanism. Why does KDE4 make me look at them all, all the time?
Isn't that what alpha and beta releases are for? If the developers behind KDE really intended 4.0 to be fore developers, then I'd say that they aren't very smart and intended to turn users away from their software.
Most of the KDE apps are just about integration, but there are a lot that I'd use, Dolphin, Amarok, K3B, Konversation, Dragon Player (Just in that it's very light and quick to use, not claiming it's "better" in any technical sense) and possibly KTorrent I would use a lot on Windows if I could.
:P).
Not to mention the KDE games are generally better than any other desktop games (although desktop games in general are only good for time-wasting
However I think the DE itself WILL be able to run on Windows, I've seen some screenshots ages ago and vaguely recall hearing about how it will change your startup screen to allow you to choose between KDE4 and Explorer.
I KMean, KWhat's Kup with KThat?
Bruce states in his review that objects on the panel can't be moved. That isn't correct. If you click on panel's cashew at the right, you go to configuration mode. If you move your cursor over an object, you will see a sort of crosshairs. Click on the object, moving your cursor moves the object and click where you want it to go. That releases it. Granted, it is not obvious. I stumbled on it by accident.
After all these years, release after release, the default font still completely, utterly sucks. Are they ever going to change fonts?
http://www.linux.com/var/uploads/Image/articles/142661.png
Yuck.
Finally, users are likely to miss Amarok 2.0 (at the time of this writing it's not yet completed) and a KDE 4 version of KnetworkManager.
KDE marks a triumphant return to full usability with the 4.1 release. I've read that some KDE 3 features still need to be ported to KDE 4, yet I'm hard pressed to think of anything missing, except for a way of hiding the panel.
You do not have amarok and knetworkmanager and this fellow is "hard pressed to think of anything missing". Is he high or something ?
What ever it is, it still looks like OS by FischerPrice to me. Of course, I could say the same about XP, Vista, and pretty much every other OS.
Why do they all look like they were designed for 4yos?
There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
yeah, I know, maybe I should have said "GUI", but I am also talking about other OSes.
There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
Can someone please clue me in as to what a plasmoid is? What are the differences between a plasmoid and a regular application? Why would I want to use, say, a folder view plasmoid rather than a regular file browsing app?
Hopefully, the Slashdot staff get off their asses and update the KDE icon
If you don't like the default theme, then change it! (Duh!)
10 minutes in and I've had to temporarily go back to KDE 3.x (I was using KDE4.0 before)
My second X Screen is not accepting any keyboard input (regardless of how an application is started up there).
I even had a session of KRDC started from the command line and had whatever I typed in the command line instead of the application on the second screen.
Do we really need notification of a (dot)1 release?
Of course we do, we always cover shiny new Beta Software Releases when they are common to most Distro's.
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.
Isn't that what alpha and beta releases are for? If the developers behind KDE really intended 4.0 to be fore developers, then I'd say that they aren't very smart and intended to turn users away from their software.
Yes, but the RC (Release Candidate) isn't slated until v4.3 - and this IS news for some of us.... Even those of us who decided after the 4.0 release that Gnome was the path of enlightenment...
(Okay, so the last line was intended to be punny....)
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.
Especially after that trainwreck of a .0 release. Does anyone know if in Kubuntu:
1) the application shortcuts (khotkeys) are fixed. Last I checked in 4.1 beta, it was still not possible to set a shortcut for konsole. This alone makes the desktop unusable.
2) The expose type feature has been fixed to give it proper sensitivity? I had to continually jab at the top left corner of my screen last I tried it, and I was lucky if it worked 25% of the time.
Another major annoyance for me in konqueror is the fact that I can't right click and select back. Instead, I right click, and am presented with a history list of pages; since there is also no rocker navigation functionality, I am essentially forced to use the traditional back button at the top of the screen. Very inefficient.
I'm a lot more concerned about the substance of the release than what number they throw on it.
For instance, MacOS has only had point releases for going on a decade now. In this case, the release is a huge improvement over the point-oh-no.
Yes, but if you drop off the "10." of the version number then Apple is conforming to the same Standard as most of the rest of the world.
I'm using OS X 5.4 right now, after upgrading this G5 from OS X 4.11. for some reason Apple likes being redundant (OS (Roman Numeral 10) 10 point version number....
Maybe it's the mathematical part of the Jobs reality distortion field....
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.
I'd mod AC down, but poisonous propaganda like this deserves a rebuttal.
From the link provided So if you are one of these poisonous users who offer no thanks for the time, energy and skill that goes into creating KDE, please go away. Find another project to harass (preferably closed source) as we've had enough of it. That is a totally appropriate response to toxic personalities.
Furthermore, entities that exchange software for money need licensees, better known as users up to a certain point. Entities that write software for their own pleasure have no such need. So, literally speaking, KDE doesn't "need" users.
Finally, KDE 4.1 is great. I'm running it on an old Thinkpad t21 just fine. The packages are in debian experimental, which have no dependency issues if you are running Lenny. Also worth noting, Lenny is **very** reliable for production and desktop use right now.
http://www.maxineudall.com/2010/02/should-economists-be-sued-for-malpractice.html
Whoosh!
I want Amarok on Windows.
NO U
One thing that the KDE developers and testers seem to be not paying attention to is having the toolbar on one of the vertical edges of the screen.
This is my preferred location (the reasons why aren't important, but it makes far more sense to me to put the tool bar there).
None of the KDE screenshots show this location. Few of them even show the toolbar at the top of the screen. While it is possible to put the toolbar on a vertical edge with KDE 4.0 (haven't tried with 4.1), it is horribly buggy and ultimately unusable.
This was not the case with KDE 3 where the vertical placement worked fine, and elements like the pager and clock were well adaptable to the new location. Elements that in KDE 4 are really, really broken with a vertical toolbar.
It seems with KDE 4, we've taken a large step backward in design.
Put my fist through my alarm clock with its ding-dong death inside my ear. - The Blackjacks.
Try installing from updates-testing instead.
Palm trees and 8
"KDE 4.1 is great. I'm running it on an old Thinkpad t21 just fine"
That is great news. Whenever I see something with a long list of new features I kind of groan about what the new hardware requirements are likely to be.
Intron: the portion of DNA which expresses nothing useful.
You must be new here.
he says as I compare UIDs ....
Put identity in the browser.
I'd use KDE happily & lovingly if only I could disable the damn "tap-to-click" on my trackpad! I've been unsuccessful every time I've tried, leading to constant accidental clicks...
Apparently, it's a trend to go against convention and Gnome's bump to 3.0 won't add any features at all.
Put identity in the browser.
Actually, it's a (dot)(slash) release.
I think you are not understanding KDE. KDE isn't actually an attempt by a group of open source programmers to come up with a Windows or OS X level desktop but a sham project used to come up with comedic material for this blog:
http://linuxhaters.blogspot.com/
KDE is a desktop environment. GDI+ is a set of advanced (or obfuscated - I didn't use them personally) drawing APIs from MS. It's like comparing Mass Effect to OpenGL, so your example is much further off than the original comment. You could compare GDI+ to Cairo but not to KDE!
The comparison between Vista and KDE is completely acceptable when we take "KDE" to mean "KDE on Linux". Linux itself with no DE is not usable to an average person, and so is Aero without the rest of Vista.
Those who would give up liberty to obtain working drivers, deserve neither liberty nor working drivers.
Don't get me wrong, KDE4 is nice, but it's a bit sad that the main reason I'dd upgrade is to get a few options that I was missing from the taskbar that even windows 9x had.
In addition to the lameness filter, we should also implement the Stupid Filter, once it is finished.
I put the 't' in electrical engineering.
Linux itself with no DE is not usable to an average person, and so is Aero without the rest of Vista.
The key difference is that Linux itself is usable to at least some people, a DE just makes it usable by a lot more people. Conversely Vista isn't usable by anyone, Aero just makes it obvious to a lot more people. ;)
"Just a fox, a whisper."
Yes, but if you drop off the "10." of the version number then Apple is conforming to the same Standard as most of the rest of the world.
That was exactly my point - the numbers are not significant... the magnitude of the upgrade is. In Mac-land, the point releases have been pretty darned major. It is the same with this 4.0 -> 4.1 move on KDE. Similar to the move from 10.0 -> 10.1 in Mac land.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
If the KDE people would make LSB compliant packages available, then you could use KDE on any distro right now without having to wait for someone to "customize" it for a specific distro.
If you read down into the comments, though, you'll find fairly decent chaps (Flar in particular) are basically told to FOAD and that KDE is better off without them.
Put identity in the browser.
I use Debian based for more than ???, oh, well, too long.
Debian used to cost me too much time to set-up, so I have been using Kubuntu; but Kubuntu is.... "not a good distribution" (i.e. a piece of s***).
Is there a decent, relatively up-to-date, Debian based distro for running KDE? I *really* need to stop using Kubuntu, and would like to avoid having to chose between a Debian system, and KDE.
So let me get this straight. You can move widgets and you can resize panels? Will the madness never end?!?!
[ think ]
New here? Get off my lawn, you pesky n00b!
Here is a picture of the recommended minimum system requirements for Vista:
http://blogs.technet.com/blogfiles/markrussinovich/WindowsLiveWriter/PushingtheLimitsofWindowsPhysicalMemory_878B/image_4.png
Does Vista really need 2048 GB of memory or is the MB scale supposed to read KB (Which would mean 2 GB of memory)?
It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
I've actually seen some screenshots of plasma widgets and panels on Windows. Aaron Segio said he didn't personally plan to port plasma to Windows, but someone else was doing it.
http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
Now that KDE 4.1 is using WebKit in place of KHTML, does this mean EOL of KHTML? For anyone using Konquerer in the new KDE, how does web performance differ from the previous version?
Jumpstart the tartan drive.
for some reason Apple likes being redundant (OS (Roman Numeral 10) 10 point version number....
Unless you read the X as the letter X, as a nod to Unix. If they bumped it to 11, that'd be XI, which would ruin that scheme -- and if they bumped it to 20 (XX) they'd be rightly accused of version inflation.
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
Linux itself with no DE is not usable to an average person
That depends very much on how you define "DE" -- after all, the iPhone doesn't have a proper DE, yet is usable to the average person.
(Yes, I realize the iPhone doesn't run Linux. I believe the analogy holds -- but if you must, take the EEE PC in its default mode. It has KDE installed, but that's the "advanced" mode.)
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
If he knew anything about Unix nomenclature, that'd be a dot(1) release.
(I don't, I'm still confused when people refer to man(6) or what-not. Can anyone help me out, I couldn't find a wikipedia page or FAQ on the numbers in parenthesis anywhere.)
You don't work in user support do you? Most computer users are 4 year olds.
Do you realize what the most asked question I am faced with... "how do I change my screensaver?" Of course the user means their desktop wallpaper. Keep in mind I work at a government site with a standard wallpaper enforced by policy.
I think it is a GUI's ultimate goal to make the user feel like a 4 year old can use it. Of course, most 4 year olds are more sophisticated than many average users, but that's beside the point.
Those of us who are technically proficient will immediately change things into a "power user" configuration which will eliminate wasted screen realestate by title bars, scroll bars, icon labels, etc. But those users who are essentially 4 year olds will still get their shit done.
My only complaint about modern OS's is that they seem to favor percieved easyness over actual usability. Sometimes it's best to require the user to learn something new, as long as what they learn is intuitive. I still remember the days of WordPerfect 6... where any idiot could type a document and quickly glance at a keyboard template for the "special features". The pros could do almost anything without thought, while still maintaining 40+ wpm. Make the OS easy, but change stupid conventions... for example I don't need a icon to do anything if you would simply make it obvious that pressing X+Y to do it would work.
Sometimes the best solution is to stop wasting time looking for an easy solution.
KDE 4.1 top feature, which for some reason is not mentioned in any of the reviews, is its new, sleek theme. In 4.1, the default theme is so black that it has a negative RGB value (as opposed to boring old 4.0, using a simple zero). Some say the color was created using pictures of black holes, or thermal imaging of an object at absolute zero.
I've been a long time Gnome user. A month or two before the release of KDE 4.0 I decided to look into KDE a bit and after poking around, decided to try it out. Hearing all the cool stuff about KDE 4 I decided to wait until it was released. I hung in there for 4.0, all the 4.1 betas, and 4.1 RC1.
During RC1 I had to deal-breaking show stoppers:
* I could NOT move a plasmoid on the desktop. I'd move it, and then it would snap right back into place in the upper-left corner.
* I could NOT resize a panel so that it was vertically *smaller*. I can resize it larger, but it simply won't let me make it smaller.
Also, less of a deal breaker for me:
* Zero support for separate monitors on separate video cards.
I waited around for 4.1 official, thinking these were just bugs and would be fixed by final release, but nay, they're still there in 4.1. Perhaps it has something to do with kubuntu's packaging, I don't know.
All said and done, I think KDE4 is amazing and has huge potential but until simple things like moving plasmoids and making panels smaller isn't an issue, I simply can't use the desktop. If anyone has any advise about why those two things happen I'd love to hear it as I really want to use KDE4 as my primary desktop.
I guess I'll be waiting for KDE 4.2.
Oh and P.S. Thank you KDE Devs for all your hard work! It looks amazing and I can't wait to see where it goes! I will definitely be rejoining your camp as soon as the environment doesn't impede on my productivity!
The number in parenthesis refers to the section of the manual where the command can be found. See man(1).
If he knew anything about Unix nomenclature, that'd be a dot(1) release.
Heck no.
(I don't, I'm still confused when people refer to man(6) or what-not. Can anyone help me out, I couldn't find a wikipedia page or FAQ on the numbers in parenthesis anywhere.)
It comes from the fact that the manpages have headings that look like e.g.:
LS(1) manual LS(1)
So ENTRYNAME(MANUALSECTION).
So essentially the thing(2) notation simply indicates in which section of the (now electronic) manual the thing is. For instance, commands are section 1, system calls section 2, library functions section 3, kernel interfaces section 4, file formats section 5, and so on.
It is mostly used to indicate that we're talking about manpages, so e.g. "see open(2) for details" indicates "open's manpage." More verbose usages such as "see the manpage for open(2)" are also seen.
This overlaps with a second usage, which makes more sense to me but is less common: to use the manpage notation to indicate which type of thing you're talking about. For instance, there is a command 'printf' and a library function 'printf,' so saying 'use printf(1)' or 'use printf(3)' to disambiguate the two is a convenient use of the 'manpage notation.'
But mostly people mean it as a shorthand for 'the manpage.'
I typed "I never ride the bus because of all of the blacks" into it, and it was classified as not likely to be stupid. Either the stupid filter is stupid itself, or it's a bit racist.
...from the KDE devs, read this before you install:
http://techbase.kde.org/Schedules/Is_KDE_4.1_for_you%3F
(Disclaimer: I used KDE 4.0, was aware it was a developer release, and liked it for what it was despite the lack of polish. I've been using the KDE 4.1 betas and RCs for a while and really like what's been done and it's really usable for me. But YMMV and there are some parts that aren't up to par with 3.5.x yet. That's fine - I didn't use those parts. But if you are using them, then 3.5.x is still being patched and updated, so it might be worth waiting 'til 4.2 before you switch.)
Why doesn't the gene pool have a life guard?
A good example is crontab(1) and crontab(5). Try 'man 1 crontab' and 'man 5 crontab' and you'll get the command and the config file, respectively. It normally doesn't matter, as if there's only one in the manual, you get the one if you do 'man whatever'.
That's terrifying because it's true...
I don't know why KDE always has to copy Microsoft. Eventhough I haven't used KDE in years, it always annoyed me that KDE tried to make Linux into a Windows clone.
The screenshots look like KDE is trying to rip off Vista with a little bit of Mac OS thrown in.
I wish both Gnome and KDE would try to become more unique and learn from the blunders made by both Microsoft and Apple. There are good things about Vista and things about Vista that suck. There are good features of Mac OSX and some aspects of OSX that are annoying.
Both Gnome and KDE seem to try to emulate Windows or Mac OS without coming up with any new fresh ideas of their own.
My main problems with both desktop environments is that neither is refined enough. Consistency is still lacking though it has improved to a large degree over the years. I still remember when FVWM was the default window manager and you had to modify the RC file just to place an icon on your desktop :)
Ubuntu and other distros have come a long way over the years. However, it still amazes me how some common tasks still require going to a command prompt. Obviously, techies love their command prompt and wouldn't have it any other way. The main stream user looking to use Linux as a desktop replacement would likely not find such a task enjoyable, however.
I haven't used any recent distributions myself other than Ubuntu in a VMware environment so my perception is obviously going to be distorted. But the last time I used the file manager in Gnome, I found it incredibly slow when it came to displaying large numbers of files. I would have thought that after about 7 or 8 years since Nautilus was released that the File manager would have been improved by now. Maybe it is just slow because I am in a Vmware environment I dunno.
But its problems like these that make the various distributions of Linux less attractive than Windows or Mac OS. I was once a Linux fan boy but find that over the years I have become more of a Mac fan boy. Leopard is far more mature and capable than most Linux distributions I have used.
I still love using various Linux distributions but I think that all the distributions still need to go even further at standardization. I know that most users of Linux have always enjoyed the customizability of it. It's awesome to be able to use whatever window manager and desktop manager combinations you desire with whatever theme you desire. However, in order to make Linux more popular and turn it into a Windows/Mac desktop replacement we still have a ways to go. The community really needs to settle on a good default and stick to it across all distributions. Standards do not prvent customization. They simply provide a standard that makes things easy for those who are less capable technically speaking.
Appearently the less-than character doesn't parse well... that was supposed to say still remember the days of WordPerfect LESS-THAN 6...
Sometimes the best solution is to stop wasting time looking for an easy solution.
That's clearly a Photoshop.
There's still some free resources that aren't being mauled.
A desktop goes a bit further than only installing files in the right place. You also want it to tie in with security mechanisms (su vs. sudo), just as an example, and maybe you also want to install two binaries with the same name at the same time. LSB doesn't solve that problem for you ...
Where is KDE packages not LSB compliant, btw? That would be useful information, rather than just a random statement I cannot verify (and thus fix) at this point ...
If you knew anything about Unix nomenclature, you'd know the number in a man is just the section. And if you'd read "man man" as all good geeks should, you'd have all the sections spelled out.
1 Executable programs or shell commands /dev) /etc/passwd
2 System calls (functions provided by the kernel)
3 Library calls (functions within program libraries)
4 Special files (usually found in
5 File formats and conventions eg
6 Games
7 Miscellaneous (including macro packages and conventions), e.g. man(7), groff(7)
8 System administration commands (usually only for root)
9 Kernel routines [Non standard]
Sam ty sig.
Yeah, I feel your pain. I have worked support before.
But, I think the "make the user feel a 4yo can use it" doesn't have to mean "Looks like it was made for a 4yo." I think it is that perceived easiness vs actual usability that you mentioned.
The UI doesen't have to look, well, childish to be easy to use and understand.
There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
You almost NEED that perception though. People are lazy and easily scared, and highly emotional.
If it looks hard, then people are going to think it's hard, even though a Grade 3 education is all you've needed to be able to use a PC for the past decade.
If people think it's going to be hard, they won't even try.
It's been a long time.
"4.1 Don't look back."
How appropriate
It's a program. It doesn't judge your argument as much as it judges the prose and the structure of your writing. For instance, I typed lol u tk him 2 da bar and it returned that it was most likely to be stupid. It's a work in progress, but I think it'll turn out to be pretty cool when it's done.
I put the 't' in electrical engineering.
This overlaps with a second usage, which makes more sense to me but is less common: to use the manpage notation to indicate which type of thing you're talking about.
I think this is the only real usage I've seen in the wild. But I didn't know the exact derivation, though guessed a disambiguation mark, having only been using *nix since '94.
"man man" as all good geeks should
More evidence of Linux being part of the homosexual agenda!
What's next, are you going to tell me to "man mount"?
So does this release allow you to set the different desktop backgrounds for different virtual desktops across multiple monitors, like KDE 3 did?
Or are they still trying to dumb down the desktop experience a la GNOME, Ubuntu and KDE 4.0?
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
It seems like KDE4 had a nice kcontrol setting to use the caps lock as a control key, but although KDE4 has a config area for keyboard commands, it doesn't have a nice handy one for this, and in fact none of the settings in that config area work for me at all. They just have no effect. I hope that gets fixed at some point and they make it easy like it was in 3.5 to have caps lock as a control key.
I also miss auto-hiding the panel and a ton of other little things. I hope they bring most of this back over time.
I like what I see, I just think it isn't quite ready for prime time yet. Once they get to a more functional parity with kde3.5, I'll move over.
I do like konq better than dolphin though. At least, I can't find the freakin' tree view in dolphin so far. Anyone know how?
>As a full-time KDE user, when I bought a >computer for my parents (1 year ago) I installed >Kubuntu on it. Since Kubuntu has been such a >mess in the last year, upon my last visit, I >installed Ubuntu on that computer.
As a full time KDE user, you didnt like the KDE experience on Ubuntu so you went to Gnome?
Let me doubt your full time kde user thing.
I used Kubuntu too but when it came time to put my folks on KDE I went with PCLinuxOS (it was on top of distrowatch for 12months) which I found better.
KDE experiences depend on the distro and this Mandriva derivative has been the best I found so far. FYI, I use Gentoo.
>My mother (~60 years old, has no clue whatsoever >about what KDE or Gnome are) upon being >presented to what I called a new Linux flavor, >said, spontaneously, within some 5 seconds >looking at the Gnome menus:
Both my folks are in tehir 70s and dad was a Windows user. I made it look as much as possible as his old WinXP box, I even changed the name of the Kopete icon to YahooMessenger. He has his FF3, VLC, Skype, OO, THunderbird, Yahoo messenger (Kopete) and he always put his own pictures of grandkids as a background, so nothing has changed much for him.
I also showed him on the desktop manager where you changed the fonts and he has put 20pt bold fonts of his liking to menus, title bars and so on.
let me get this straight, you installed Kubuntu for your mom, she is using it and then you change it because Kubuntu is 'such a mess'.
Please forgive my lack of tech knowledge but Im not familiar with 'such a mess'.
Youre a KDE user and you installed it on her machine and THEN you find it out its 'such a mess'? I have Kubuntu 7.10 installed on a machine ut rarely use it.
I like it less than PClinuxOS or Mandriva and Open Suse/Kde (but I despise Novell/Miguel) but a mess?
And that much of a mess that you have to change her to another desktop, not another KDE distro?
Your story makes no sense but people still love fiction.
Do my eyes deceive me, or are you using binary for those version numbers?
It could be stranger. TeX's version numbers tend towards pi.
Not a sentence!
Just wait 'till you see the screen savers!
If I mod you up, it doesn't necessarily mean I agree with what you've said, sorry.
Well, from time to time, I use the "()" notation as a subtle "RTFM" if I'm mentioning something obscure or complex. For me, it's kind of like linking to wiki when the discussion of something is well out of scope for the topic on hand.
When you see the "()"s, you know exactly where you get more info on the subject. I think this is somewhat usual for mailing lists and multiple CC'ed emails where you have people of varying degrees of experience. I think it really does help S/N ratio, IMHO.
If I mod you up, it doesn't necessarily mean I agree with what you've said, sorry.
And what's wrong with racism? You being xenophobic towards racists is no better than being racist.
The same people that teeter on that poisonous-user edge couldn't take a balanced view if it bit them.
I was expecting it to be some kind of proper rant; but all he really says is some users are assholes. News flash, it's true. None the less, as some manner of representative what you say can and will be misconstrued by the little people; hence, generally it's still a good idea to keep your public mouth shut.
Quack, quack.
Well personally I define "DE" as "desktop environment", and hence the iPhone is usable without one. It wouldn't be usable without the GUI it does have, however...
It's official. Most of you are morons.
Gosh, I'm not sure, after all most PCs have about 2048 GB of memory as standard nowadays, so who knows?
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
I've got a few different systems I use, running Mac OS X, Ubuntu and OpenSUSE and I use the screen corners a lot; all configured the same using either Expose on OS X, or Compiz on Gnome/Linux. If I plant my mouse in the top left corner, windows from the same application group are exposed. Using the top right corner all windows in the current Desktop view are exposed. Bottom right hides all windows revealing the Desktop, and bottom left shows all my virtual Desktops (Spaces in OS X).
I've been doing this for years on OS X (more recently on Gnome) and now it's as natural a breathing.
Can I do the same on KDE 4.1, or does the desktop plasmoid thingy in the top right hand corner stop me from doing that?
Finally, KDE 4.1 is great. I'm running it on an old Thinkpad t21 just fine.
How is power management working?
Bring back the KDE2/3 UI - its all gone wrong ...
Well, it depends on how you do version numbers. Remember Windows 3.1, and then 3.11 for work groups. Some people actually like the idea that 3.11 is less than 3.2, because, well, it is. Instead of using numbering systems that don't make any sense, like 3.1.1.
Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
Set up a blind test, call it something like Mojave. Tell everyone it's an experimental OS from Apple, or Google's OS, or Sugar 2.0. See if they like it.
I'm using KDE 4.1, I don't see such ugly fonts.
So, I fail to see how this is a DE thing, as opposed to a distro thing ...
"In Soviet Russia, stupid messages filter you!"
Text is not likely to be stupid.
Gosh, I'm not sure, after all most PCs have about 2048 GB of memory as standard nowadays, so who knows?
So THAT'S why we need 64-bit operating systems, I see.
It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
Nah. man finger(6) is your next mission.
A.I. Research. The peculiar science in which we know the question and we know the answer, but can't show the working
Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah, Hallelujah, Hallelujah!!!
Look, here's my problem: Plasma creates a Colgate invisible shield between the Desktop and the filesystem. This disrupts opportunities for me, the user, to create my own Desktop, though it may create new opportunities that I haven't discovered yet.
In other words, back in the day, I could create a Desktop launcher in Konqueror and it would show up on the Desktop. I could create a launcher on the Desktop, and use it in Konqueror. This was great for moving back and forth between KDE and a window manager like fluxbox. Konqueror was great in a window manager, because it contained all of KDE within one application, inluding GUI application menus and the Desktop, which could be accessed in Konqueror by navigating to "~/Desktop" All the icons were there, and they were functional. Even better, I could create Desktop launchers in a hidden file, create a homepage of html links to the launchers, and use Konqueror as a custom interfaceto launch just about anything I wanted to launch.
All of that flexibilty has been disrupted, and I still don't see what is gained, other than these widget thingees. They look nice, but they don't add a single new function for all that I can see.
But I'm in the minority, or will be soon. KDE4 is here, lots of people love it, and I don't want to piss on anyone else's garden. No one else is supposed to care about my awesome homemade hybrid Desktop. As KDE4 gets more polished, I'm sure the complainers, holdouts and refugees will dwindle down to a tiny minority, but it looks more and more like I'm going to be in that group. I'm starting a KDE3 user's group on Facebook, we should get together, get over it, and support each other to assure that KDE 3 is viable for a long time.
I realize I'm probably walking into some straw-man argument, but how do you figure?
How does that differ from a grammar checker, though?
They're working on an elaborate algorithm that forgives some grammatical and spelling errors, but punishes more for others.
I put the 't' in electrical engineering.