Xbox Price Cuts Confirmed

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Posted by Soulskill on Wednesday September 3, 2008 @11:16AM from the nice-timing dept.

Kotaku notes that the suspected price cuts to the various Xbox 360 systems have been confirmed. Xbox Live's Major Nelson posted the new prices ($199 for the Arcade, $299 for the Pro, and $399 for the Elite) and pointed out a BusinessWeek story discussing the changes. The price cuts will take effect on September 5th.

196 comments

Place your bets... by AKAImBatman · 2008-09-03 11:21 · Score: 4, Interesting

...the Wii will still sell better.
Even at $199, the majority of consumers feel like they're getting half a system when they get the 360 without a hard drive. As a result, they're going to be looking at the higher $299 price tag. The Wii doesn't have that problem (at least not yet) because the system has the exact same fixed storage on all systems. What you get is what you get. You do not miss out on anything because you purchased the cheaper model.
(Anyone reminded of Henry Ford's, "You can have any color you want as long as it's black"? ;-))

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Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
1. Re:Place your bets... by Cathoderoytube · 2008-09-03 11:25 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  I'm not so sure this is a shot at Nintento so much as it is a shot at Sony. Just a guess though.
  
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2. Re:Place your bets... by Eponymous+Crowbar · 2008-09-03 11:32 · Score: 1
  
  Well, the $199 Arcade model is definitely a shot at Nintendo. The $299 model with 60GB is the weapon against Sony. They can beat Sony, but there seems to be some sort of hypnotism at play that forces people to buy a Wii and then let it gather dust under the TV.
3. Re:Place your bets... by Anonymous Coward · 2008-09-03 11:45 · Score: 0
  
  For what it's worth, you can still do a reasonable amount of things with a 360 and the 512mb memory card that comes packaged with it. It's enough to play some Castle Crashers, Geometry Wars, Uno Live, or most pressed retail games.
  It will be a pain, however, when the next dashboard update allows you to play games off of the hard drive (and get rid of the ungodly drive spinning sound)
  I should know, I started from an Arcade and added a Hard drive later.
4. Re:Place your bets... by Zardus · 2008-09-03 11:48 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  I love this argument. I have both a Wii and a 360, and the 360's been played during exactly three weeks in the last six months. Once for Viva Pinata, once for GTA4, and again for GTA a few months later. Compared to that, the Wii is in constant use. I'm still playing through Mario Galaxy and Metroid Prime 3, I've recently beat Lost Winds, and Smash Bros is a constant obsession, especially when anyone comes over. Boom Blox gets played every time there's anyone over as well. My wife uses My Pokemon Ranch to store excess Pokemon from the DS games every single day.
  So there's my anecdotal evidence. My 360 has a thick layer of dust on it; my Wii is played regularly and even comes with me when I visit my friends. It's possible that the reason I still have so many games left to play is that I have maybe 2 hours or so per week left over for single-player gaming, but this whole "Wiis just sit around gathering dust" bullshit is really baffling to me.
  In my opinion, the only thing the Wii is lacking is a good splitscreen shooter. Red Steel is crap, and Metal of Honor: Heroes 2 dashed my hopes by being online-only. I hate this stupid online-only trend this generation.
  
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5. Re:Place your bets... by AKAImBatman · 2008-09-03 11:48 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  In the case of Sony, I don't think that price is Microsoft's problem. Sony is finally starting to see some of the titles that they've been developing (or waiting on developing) come to fruition. Since a few of those are still PS3 exclusive (e.g. MGS4), consumers are looking at the two consoles and deciding based on whether they want Little Big Planet, MGS4, and Resistance 2 or Viva Pinata, Halo 3, and Gears of War 2.
  Sony's hype train is pushing the PS3 as the perfect HD entertainment center for your home. It not only plays highly-anticipated games in 1080p, but it also can play Bluray movies. Those features manage to convince a lot of customers that the PS3 is the quality console, and not the XBox 360.
  Of course, they both are fighting over table scraps. The consoles to beat are still the Wii and the PS2 (believe it or not). Quite frankly, it must be horrendously embarrassing for Sony to be unable to compete against their own last-gen console. None the less, it pays the bills, so the PS2 is still the platform to beat.
  Which isn't going to happen until both competitors can afford to lower their console prices into the $199 range. (And I DON'T mean the stripped down versions.)
  
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6. Re:Place your bets... by Anonymous Coward · 2008-09-03 11:50 · Score: 1, Interesting
  
  Even at $199, the majority of consumers feel like they're getting half a system when they get the 360 without a hard drive.
  The Arcade version currently comes with a memory card, so it's not completely useless.
  Moreover, I work part-time at GameStop and I've sold a number of Arcade units to people who just want an extra system for LAN play (it must be nice to have money).
7. Re:Place your bets... by ZeroFactorial · 2008-09-03 12:03 · Score: 1
  
  I don't know.... I think they're really going to appeal to the Emo crowd by cutting themselves.
  
  Er.... their prices.
8. Re:Place your bets... by Anonymous Coward · 2008-09-03 12:38 · Score: 0
  
  The consoles to beat are still the Wii and the PS2 (believe it or not).
  Sales figures from the linked article:
  Nintendo DS - 608,400
  Wii - 555,000
  PlayStation 3 - 224,900
  PSP - 221,700
  Xbox 360 - 204,800
  PlayStation 2 - 155,500
  Hmm... I think I'm going to go with "not."
  EVERYTHING is outselling the PS2, even the PS3.
  Even in Japan, PS2 sales are practically non-existent. In just about every territory, two consoles completely dominate sales: the Nintendo Wii, and the Nintendo DS. The PSP usually squeeks into third, these figures include MGS4-related sales which has greatly inflated PS3 sales.
  With Little Big Planet as literally the ONLY reason to buy a PS3 for the rest of the year and the Xbox 360 being priced less than half of the PS3, Sony is simply fucked. There are just too many reasons to buy an Xbox 360 and a total of one to buy a PS3.
9. Re:Place your bets... by moderatorrater · 2008-09-03 12:40 · Score: 1
  
  Quite frankly, it must be horrendously embarrassing for Sony to be unable to compete against their own last-gen console
  I don't know how embarrassing this is considering history. The original playstation was sold for a long time after the PS2 was released, and in a way it's still selling as the PSP. Having its last generation console going strong while its next generation console is still competing strongly against the XBox is a position I'm sure the sony executives are glad to be in. At the $120 price point that the PS2 sits at right now, it's not cannibalizing a significant number of PS3 sales, and it keeps developers and consumers in the Sony brand.
  
  Which isn't going to happen until both competitors can afford to lower their console prices into the $199 range. (And I DON'T mean the stripped down versions.)
  I expect that price point is actually at $250, right where the Wii is sitting. $200 was about the price point for the last generation, but disposable income has gone up and oil prices have hit the economy with the inflation stick. However, I believe you're right in saying that it's got to be the full thing, not a stripped down version. The best thing that Nintendo has going for it right now is that it's got one console out on the market, so that people know that they aren't going to go down the road and regret not buying the upgrade or regret having bought a worthless upgrade. They remove a lot of uncertainty by providing one version.
10. Re:Place your bets... by Anonymous Coward · 2008-09-03 13:16 · Score: 0
  
  Even at $199, the majority of consumers feel like they're getting half a system when they get the 360 without a hard drive. As a result, they're going to be looking at the higher $299 price tag. The Wii doesn't have that problem (at least not yet) because the system has the exact same fixed storage on all systems.
  In addition to the 512MB memory card that's bundled with the $200 Xbox 360 Arcade (which matches the $250 Wii's 512MB of fixed storage), the Arcade is also a high-def console, an up-converting DVD player, and a high-def Media Center Extender. As a result, potential Wii buyers might be looking at the these Arcade features that the Wii lacks.
  Besides, Arcade buyers know that they can later buy a 360 hard drive on eBay.
11. Re:Place your bets... by Babbster · 2008-09-03 13:18 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  I get that /. is home to those who might be considered (or even consider themselves) "hardcore," but I'm still perplexed by the characterization of the Xbox 360 Arcade as "stripped down." That version includes everything needed to start playing 360 games including a memory card (256MB), and they've even been packing in a wireless controller; the original no-hard-drive unit had no memory card and a wired controller. And this price cut isn't insignificant - the drop from $280 to $200 is 28.6%, which is huge and makes the 360 - even if one goes out and buys new video cables for high-definition - cheaper than the Wii. So, Microsoft is including more stuff than they used to and charging significantly less money. That seems more like "a good deal" than "stripped down."
  
  Disclaimer: I love the Wii, respect the value of the PS3 for those who want Blu-ray and sold my 360 last year. :)
12. Re:Place your bets... by Anonymous Coward · 2008-09-03 13:23 · Score: 0
  
  What pisses me off about the Wii is that it's still impossible to find one. I mean I don't hang out at the stores all the time and only check maybe once a month but I check the online stores like GameStop all the time and they never have the damn things in stock. Or if they do have it in stock it's some beefed up $500 system that I don't want.
  Seriously, how long has it been since the Wii was released? Why aren't they available everywhere?!
13. Re:Place your bets... by fyrewulff · 2008-09-03 13:45 · Score: 1
  
  Hardware sales don't equal software sales. The epicly gigantic PS2, DS, and Wii userbase (mostly the PS2) sell tons of software through saturation alone. Sell 2,000 copies on Xbox or GameCube? Port it to PS2 and you could automatically get at least 10,000 sales.
  
  --
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14. Re:Place your bets... by MooseMuffin · 2008-09-03 13:57 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  Basically the opposite situation here. I'm a Wii and 360 owner and the only game I've finished on the Wii was resident evil 4, which I never played on any of its other platforms but can't imagine it was half as good without the wiimote. I was excited for Mario and Zelda but really never picked them up after the first few days I had them. They were well done for sure, but they just didn't hold my interest like I thought they would. Maybe my tastes have changed since the n64 days. I picked up smash brothers for cheap one day, but it plays far too loose to appeal to my fighting game loving side. Generally, the Wii is now used to show friends who come by who haven't played with one very much. I certainly don't discount the Wii though. RE4 proved that they could definitely utilize the machine in a way that would interest me; They just haven't done it since.
  The 360 gets played all the time though, largely due to the friends list I think. I turn it on for a couple of quick geometry wars games and end up being invited to some other gaming session that ultimately lasts 4 times as long as I planned on gaming. Halo is a big culprit here, not because it's a particularly great shooter (I'm partial to cod4 on PC), but its good enough and nearly ubiquitous among 360 owners. If you know some 360 owners, you probably all have halo and can play that together. Between the friends list and voice chat, I've probably maintained friendships with college buddies who I may have otherwise lost touch with.
  Additionally, soul calibur handles my fighting game fix, putting friends-filtered high score lists on the main screen in geometry wars turned it into an ever-present obsession, and the draw of the online music store within rock band is downright lethal once I've had a drink or two...
15. Re:Place your bets... by renegadesx · 2008-09-03 14:05 · Score: 1
  
  Sure the libary is rather thin, but lets just end this "wii bashing because its fun" its basically like endorsing Twitter's shilling
  Most people dont have 50 game wide libaries, some have max 10. Personally I think the Wii is fine for that sort of consumer.
  
  First you have the 1st party titles, nobody does 1st party games like Nintendo, but there are some pretty sweet 3rd party games out there if you look hard enough
  
  Exclusives: Zack & Wiki, No More Heroes, Elebits, Endless Ocean, Trauma Center, Boom Blox
  Good ports: Guitar Hero III, Rock Band, RE4, Bully, Lego Star Wars, Lego Indiana Jones
  Comming: The Condiit, MadWorld, Trauma Center: New Blood, Disaster: Day of Crisis, Rock Band 2, Guitar Hero World Tour, TNA iMPACT
  
  The landscape is not as bleak as most people make it out to be. With that being said, I get more out of my 360 than I do with my Wii but that doesn't make the Wii worthless, its quite a nice addition to my game setup (as someone who has all 3 consoles and both handhelds)
  
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16. Re:Place your bets... by mattack2 · 2008-09-03 14:05 · Score: 1
  
  Don't you need the hard drive to run Xbox games? (Don't get me wrong, I know many of the PS3s are not backward compatible anymore either.)
17. Re:Place your bets... by Anonymous Coward · 2008-09-03 14:19 · Score: 0
  
  The Wii and the 360 are totally different things. One is what amounts to a digital toy chest. And the other is a way to play, sometimes intensely competitively, with people around the world. If you want to talk about how the 360 is competing with the Wii, I'd say stuff like Guitar Hero and Lips, and stuff like Viva Pinata party games. Even that would sort of fall short and result in a pretty thin comparison (outside of the Viva Pinata party stuff).
  Clearly Nintendo is making money so they're doing something right. And if people are having fun with their Wiis then they are too. But the Wii and 360 and PS3s are VERY VERY different things.
  That said, I'd buy an Arcade as a "spare" 360. I already have a HD loaded with my stuff, don't particularly want to buy a new HD w/o a drive transfer kit.
  Personally, the 360 isn't competing at all with the Wii or PS3. It won those fights. Now, it's competing with TV, movies, events, going outside. I still manage to bathe regularly, so I consider this a minor moral victory.
18. Re:Place your bets... by bluefoxlucid · 2008-09-03 14:22 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  77.54 million DS in circulation 2008-06-30. 31 million PSP in circulation 2008-08-30. 29.62 million Wii in circulation 2008-06-30. 19 million Xbox 360 in circulation 2008-04-25. 14.41 million PS3 in circulation 2008-06-30. 140 million PS2 in circulation 2008-07-15, but it's a whole other generation still selling.
  Nintendo has plurality, and sits a little over 3 million from majority share of the current generation console market. And if they continue to innovate at the current rate (improved sensors in the Wiimote, starting as an add-on; Wii Zapper utilizing Wiimote, basically free with $20 game; Wii balance board; etc), their install base will start growing a little faster but much more lucrative as the hot games begin to universally require some specific upgrade (balance board for snowboarding/skateboarding, zapper for gun games, advanced sensor for fine-control games but that goes straight into the Wiimote as an upgrade later), raising their $250 profitable console to $420 on currently available hardware alone.
  Had Nintendo developed Guitar Hero 4, the guitarist would mimic your stance based on the balance board and Wiimote (enhanced with better sensor) in the guitar; the drum sticks would contain a small sensor; and the microphone would make you horny baby. Or not. But they would have probably toyed with trying to full-immerse you in the game.
  
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19. Re:Place your bets... by Babbster · 2008-09-03 14:35 · Score: 1
  
  Yes, the hard drive is required to play Xbox games. This, of course, is because Xbox games were often designed to use the hard drive for caching. Some games wouldn't even allow the use of memory cards to save games (Knights of the Old Republic, for example, saved a snapshot of memory instead of designing a proper save structure).
20. Re:Place your bets... by Anonymous Coward · 2008-09-03 15:29 · Score: 0
  
  the only thing keeping me from getting a Wii has been the waiting for the US version to get updated to play DVD movies.. it already has the drive.. we have seen homebrew people get it going.. they even said a month after the orginal release that they would have it within a year (the Jap version was released with it)
  but alas.. nothing - i only have one svid input on my TV .. right now it is for a computer so i can play games and DVD's.. if i got a Wii it would have to replace that computer for both games and DVD's.. cause sorry but i am not going to do an svid switcher - and i really am not going to buy a new TV..
  i just want them to follow through on one simple little thing they said they where going to do.
  other than that Wii kicks ass
21. Re:Place your bets... by BoberFett · 2008-09-03 15:38 · Score: 1
  
  Also, I believe the hard drive is required because it contains game profiles used by the emulator.
22. Re:Place your bets... by gfxguy · 2008-09-03 15:46 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Sony's hype train is pushing the PS3 as the perfect HD entertainment center for your home. It not only plays highly-anticipated games in 1080p, but it also can play Bluray movies. Those features manage to convince a lot of customers that the PS3 is the quality console, and not the XBox 360.
  I think this is more important than you are giving it credit for...
  Most of us still have not moved on into HD. For those of us looking into it (like me), we know it's more than simply buying an HD TV; without a useful HD source (over the air is nice, but I doubt it's compelling enough to invest in the television). In other words, what's the point unless you get a blu-ray player?
  Sure, you can upscan your old DVDs, which we'll do a lot of, I'm sure, but when I'm adding up the total to buy a complete HD system, I'm including the blu-ray player as well as the TV and a I know I'll need a new entertainment center to fit it all.
  The reason I'm going on about it is because every review of blu-ray players seems to come to the same conclusion: the PS3 is a better blu-ray player than the standalone units, and it's cheaper, and on top of that... it's a PS3, so you get a gaming system, too!
  I wasn't even considering it; I'd have gone right ahead and sunk $300 or $400 on a standalone player when I can get an 80GB PS3 for that amount (plus $20 for a remote) and people are saying it's actually a better player than the standalone units (starts up faster, for one thing).
  So it's not just gaming; people who might not otherwise have gotten one (me) might end up getting it just for bluray; and since I do play games, I'll use it for gaming, too.
  Win-win.
  
  --
  Stupid sexy Flanders.
23. Re:Place your bets... by Cheapy · 2008-09-03 16:18 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  Interesting, because my story is the exact opposite. I've played the Wii once in the past 3 months, and that was for an hour, playing Brawl with my cousins.
  
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24. Re:Place your bets... by houbou · 2008-09-03 16:47 · Score: 1
  
  I agree. The Wii is more fun to play, It may not have the best graphics, but it's fun! And I can't wait for a decent game like Doom 3 or Wolfenstein to be on the Wii :)
25. Re:Place your bets... by Doctor_Jest · 2008-09-03 17:20 · Score: 1
  
  Of course it will. It's been selling like hotcakes since it was introduced. The trouble is, third party support is pathetic, and Nintendo seems to be content with selling gadgets for the system and not games... (Not pre-announcing the enhancement to the Wiimote to 3rd parties? LucasArts is pissed...)
  
  I like my Wii and am not here to bash it (in case anyone was ready to throttle me over that), and I've a few things from virtual arcade that bring back memories (some more fond than others...heh), but I'm realistic when I say games like "Too Human" or Fallout 3 are not in the Wii's cards. It's to be expected for any general rule regarding Nintendo's past performance, but it'd be nice if the big N wouldn't give the big finger to third parties so easily... (and get some QC on the shovelware... it's bringing the brand down...)
  
  The Arcade 360 only feels like a non-system to me because I use my HDD on my arcade (built from the ashes of my Elite that is on it's way to Texas as we speak to be fixed), but I played Too Human with just the 256mb memory card in it and it worked just as well. The problem with the HDD on the 360 is the same problem that existed on the original xbox (it's just a place to store saves, patches and music). But the "install to HDD" option that is rumored to come out sounds neat... for those of us stuck with loud-assed DVD drives.
  
  The Wii does need to fix its storage items, since there are so many things that it can hold, but with limited internal memory, it suffers a little for those who are ravenous virtual arcade users. :)
  
  As for Sony, Microsoft's been fumbling the ball of late, and we can see the PS3 gaining ground steadily... it's not over yet, and there is still room for 3 consoles, but the battle for 2nd place this generation is not a shoo-in for Microsoft anymore. Coupled with their reliability issues and a few other questionable things... Sony's still got a shot. (FWIW and in the spirit of full disclosure, I have a PS3 with a 120GB HDD in it. heh.)
  
  --
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26. Re:Place your bets... by UnknownSoldier · 2008-09-03 18:06 · Score: 1
  
  You forgot to factor in the total hardware _already_ sold...
  i.e.
  "Sony told those attending the video game industry's E3 convention last week that sales of its original PlayStation, launched in 1994, had reached 102m units and the PlayStation 2 console had now passed 140m worldwide in its ninth year on sale."
  PS3 and XBox360 have a long way to go to hit 100 million units.
27. Re:Place your bets... by Zardus · 2008-09-03 18:28 · Score: 1
  
  Hmm.. Interesting..
  I guess the bottom line is that X-Box Live doesn't hold an appeal to me. My friends aren't big console owners and we all grew up playing split-screen every weekend. It's really hard to move that experience online for me for some reason. I think also because of the way we grew up, gaming is kind of an exclusive experience -- it's something you do with your friends and once strangers start joining in it loses its appeal.
  On top of all that, we are all hardcore Smash Bros fans (playing it obsessively since Apr 28 or 29, 1999) and that's basically unplayable online. All the other fighting games feel too slow and limited, no offense. I think it's just a preference for a different style really. :-) Shooters, unless they're REALLY good (ie, Perfect Dark or Time Splitters) don't tend captivate us for long either.
  Have you played Metroid Prime 3 on the Wii? I'm sure it's pretty different from RE4, but it would be a closer experience than Zelda or Mario. Same with it probably not being half as good without the Wiimote, too. I played Metroid Prime 1 on the GC for all of 20 minutes before getting bored, but there's something crazy good about MP3's controls.
  
  --
  You can mod your friends, you can mod your nose, but you can't mod your friend's nose.
28. Re:Place your bets... by Zardus · 2008-09-03 18:33 · Score: 1
  
  Trauma Center: New Blood came out last November. I played it co-op with my brother, and it is pretty awesome. I didn't play the original, though, so I'm not sure how it compares.
  
  --
  You can mod your friends, you can mod your nose, but you can't mod your friend's nose.
29. Re:Place your bets... by renegadesx · 2008-09-03 18:38 · Score: 1
  
  Why is it that every time we talk hardware sales that somebody doesn't like, software sales always seem to come up. You can come up with all sorts of numbers to twist rankings however you want. At the end of the day, the numbers that stick and go down in the history books are console hardware sales.
  
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30. Re:Place your bets... by clickclickdrone · 2008-09-03 21:39 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  Most people dont have 50 game wide libaries, some have max 10. Personally I think the Wii is fine for that sort of consumer.
  
  I don't have the exact stats to hand but the vast majority of Wii owners apparantly just buy the basic console with Wii sports and never buy another game. Some people buy one or two. Very few have any sort of library. As a result, despite its market penetration, it's a brave company that spends a lot of money on developing a Wii title.
  
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31. Re:Place your bets... by flitty · 2008-09-04 01:08 · Score: 1
  
  Good ports: Guitar Hero III, Rock Band, RE4, Bully, Lego Star Wars, Lego Indiana Jones
  
  I wouldn't call "rock band" a good port, considering it's on par with ps2's features. My idea of a good port is like Force Unleashed, where there are features for that console exclusively, rather than the removal of features. (even though I FULLY expect the light saber battles to blow chunks.)
  
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32. Re:Place your bets... by M-RES · 2008-09-04 01:18 · Score: 1
  
  I feel the opposite. The Wii is quirky to play, but the majority of games just aren't there for me and the control feels poorly implemented (overly sensitive at some times, then not the least bit responsive at other times).
  Most games I play are drivers, so the PS is king (still sticking with a PS2 though until they finally release the new Turismo, then it's hand-in-my-pocket for a PS3). I've played a few drivers on the 360 which is definitely better for the genre than a Wii, but it's still let down a bit by the pad design. Sure, it's better than a horizontally-held Wiimote, but doesn't come close to touching a PS pad for perfect positioning of every button (unless you have absolutely gigantic hands).
  The wife feels the opposite to me though. She absolutely detests computer gaming in any form - unless it's in the form of the Wii - and then she adores it! I think it's the fact you're having to actually DO something or at least that's how she sees it - not realising the skill and effort needed to concentrate on a 24 Hour Le Mans race non-stop (apart from usual pit-stops) in real time on GT4, or an endurance race around the Nurgburgring!
33. Re:Place your bets... by Cheeko · 2008-09-04 02:24 · Score: 1
  
  Indeed. I think the Wii in our apt has been turned on once since the summer started, but I've played through at least 5-6 360 games in that time (if you count things like the PA game from Live Arcade as a full game then its 1 more).
34. Re:Place your bets... by HarvardFrankenstein · 2008-09-04 02:43 · Score: 1
  
  I'm actually thinking about getting the 360 Arcade just to replace my current, constantly acting up console and just hooking my current hard drive up to it. I *could* spend the money to get it repaired, but that'd be a lot like buying a refurb to replace it. I'd rather just have a new one.
35. Re:Place your bets... by afidel · 2008-09-04 02:47 · Score: 1
  
  I also can't believe they charge $100 for such a teeny drive, I've been able to buy quality (Seagate) 500GB SATA drives for well under $100 for over a year now. In fact last week I saw them for $69 without any rebates.
  
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36. Re:Place your bets... by Fozzyuw · 2008-09-04 02:52 · Score: 1
  
  Indeed. I think the Wii in our apt has been turned on once since the summer started, but I've played through at least 5-6 360 games in that time (if you count things like the PA game from Live Arcade as a full game then its 1 more).
  Myself, I've not turned on my Wii in several months. No games that really interest me. However, that will soon change when Batman Lego is released. Then shortly following that the Tales of Symphonia sequel (an excellent single player RPG that was on the GameCube).
  Though, other than that, there's not much in general I enjoy playing on consoles. I'm still glad I have a Wii and wouldn't trade it. Actually, now that I think about it. I did use my Wii a lot this summer for Wii Fit. I just don't really consider it "gaming".
  All my other time was spent playing WoW mostly. Though, I've decided to go back and start playing Oblivion again, since I bought it but never played it more than a couple of hours.
  I'll be waiting for Starcraft 2 and the WoW expansion. Though, I might go back and try playing LotRO again. That was a decent game. Of course, I've also been spending a lot of time on Kongregate.com. There's tons of fun flash games (with achievements) to play for a quick 10-30mins.
  I guess my point is that I have a ton games to play and no time to play them. That doesn't even include the fact that I bought the Fallout 1, 2, Tactics package to play, but haven't touched yet. There's so much hype about Fallout 3 I thought I should go back and finally play that game. Which also reminds me that I need to play Warcraft 2 sometime. Yet another game I've never played but own. I need a long vacation. =P
  
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  "The past was erased, the erasure was forgotten, the lie became truth." ~1984 George Orwell
37. Re:Place your bets... by houbou · 2008-09-04 03:33 · Score: 1
  
  You know, I will admit this, when it comes to driving games and the Wii, my first game was Wii GT (Grand Turismo) I couldn't master the controls at all to really play this game well. When Mario Kart Wii came out, and I'm a fanatic of all things Mario Kart, well, oye vay, it forced me to truly learn how to use that control with the so-called "driving wheel". Ironically, because of that, I'm now able to play the Wii version of GT, which I was never able to play properly until I got Mario Kart Wii.
  But the truth is, Nintendo games are not the same as XBox and XBox 360 and PS /2/3 etc.. That's true. It's not just the graphic qualities, but the type of games. There are games and game types on Nintendo which I can only describe as "younger at heart?" if that makes any sense, which doesn't always appeal to what I would traditionally call, "the hardcore gamer".
38. Re:Place your bets... by MooseMuffin · 2008-09-04 04:04 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah, I think most of the appeal comes from xbox live for me. There are a number of 360 games that I own that I wouldn't have gotten my money's worth from if I played them just single player or on occasions where I had guests over. And while I also grew up playing split screen games in 1 room, I think it's easy to move that experience online if you and your friends all move away from each other. I'll agree that I generally don't like playing with strangers though. At least, I don't like talking to them as teammates. They're either too serious or not serious enough, which is why I appreciate Halo's system that lets you grab 3 friends and play other teams of 4.
  As for metroid, I'm not sure why I never played it. Maybe a bunch of other stuff was coming out around that time last year and it didn't make it onto my radar. It's probably pretty cheap by now so maybe I'll check it out.
  By the way, it was nice engaging in a console discussion online that didn't devolve to flaming.
39. Re:Place your bets... by Anonymous Coward · 2008-09-04 04:08 · Score: 0
  
  Apparently this is one of the problems with the Wii is that very few people buy very many games for and most of the games purchased for it ARE Nintendo first party games.
  I haven't bought a current generation console yet, as the prices of the XBOX360 and PS3 were incredibly high and they had few games to interest me until recently. (I just recently replaced my several years dead PS2 with a new slim. It took me that long to gamble on crappy Sony "quality" again, and only a good deal on a NIB PS2 made me jump.)
  The Wii has a nice price point, likely to drop now I think in wake of moves by the other two, but has only a handful of games that interest me. This seems to be changing slowly as there appear to be more interesting games coming out for it, as publishers see the continued lead in Wii sales and it's extant installed base. It still looks to me like the Wii is getting exactly the type of console games that I want in a console, while XBOX and PS3 are getting mainly consolejacked PC games, which I'll just play on the PC if I bother, TYVM.
  Online games: No way am I playing online only games on a console or even buying them for that matter. Online only games will remain exclusively for my PC as well as any games that have very good modding potential regardless of whether or not they're released for the console. Also console crossports usually come out like crap on one system or another as their interfaces tend to be better suited for one environment over the other and in the case of what is common now, console -> PC, the console limitations generally lead to artificial limitations of the PC version, along with, as mentioned previously, interfaces that just don't work for the PC.
  As to graphical limitations of the Wii, it should be entirely possible for them to take the higher resolution models/textures/etc. and down samplle them very nicely to something suitable to other less "powerful" platforms. The executables from sources likely have to be greatly changed so also scaling options/etc. to a platforms capabilities shouldn't be all that bad unless they truly differ greatly, which, overall I think that they do not other than in the case of the Wii it doesn't have much storage capability, and console developers seemed to have been pushed into being to reliant on external resources, e.g. harddrives which IMNHO shouldn't really be necessary for consoles at all.
  HD: Forget it. I already have 4 TVs. None of them are dead/dying so they won't be replaced until they do so. i.e. consumer electronics ccompanies must absolutely hate people like me who don't run out and throw wads of cash at them for every little minor update they make then charge assininely high prices for it.
  Numbers: XBOX is going to have to do much more than merely match Wii sales numbers, and the PS3 is going to have to truly smackdown XBOX & Wii sales numbers for years (at the current rate) for it to ever really matter.
40. Re:Place your bets... by JohnnyComeLately · 2008-09-04 05:08 · Score: 1
  
  I dont feel like I missed out on much for the 6-9 months I went without a harddrive. I had ONE game where I couldn't play online, but the rest were ok with a memory stick. I ended up buying on about a year after getting my xbox360, but that was mostly to do the DLC maps for Halo3. If I hadn't gotten hooked on H3, there's a chance I'd still be find without one.
41. Re:Place your bets... by indytx · 2008-09-04 05:22 · Score: 1
  
  . . . . I hate this stupid online-only trend this generation.
  I feel exactly the opposite as I have hardly ever finish any games. I play long enough to get the hang of it and then go online. Maybe it's an age thing. I'm a married and employed. At the opposite end is my teenage nephew who almost always plays his Xbox games through and rarely goes online.
  
  --
  Make love, not reality television.
42. Re:Place your bets... by SoopahMan · 2008-09-04 05:45 · Score: 0, Troll
  
  I'm told the cheapest model lacks a power cable, which you need to go out and buy separately. Pretty cruel. If so, you won't be bringing that home and playing it right away... .
43. Re:Place your bets... by Anonymous Coward · 2008-09-04 06:14 · Score: 0
  
  I bought a 80gig PS3 earlier this year as I thought it would make a home entertainment great system for my living room. I figured I'd play some games on it from time to time, but also have it replace my DVD player and get the benefit of a BluRay movie player for my LCD HDTV. What I quickly found out, was the damn thing consumed an insane amount of power, it also seemed to put off more heat then my TV. It's also kind of an eyesore, when compared to my smaller HD cable box and dvd player. My wife hated the thing from the first time she used it, she quickly went back to using the upscale dvd player we have, as it was much more userfriendly and simple to use.
  Ended up ebaying it after that. I will most likely end up getting a bluray player when they come down below the $100 price tag in the years to come. I really enjoy HD movies, but the PS3 is not the answer for watching them for me.
44. Re:Place your bets... by jdgreen7 · 2008-09-04 07:40 · Score: 1
  
  I'm in a somewhat similar situation. For me (a techie), the PS3 was a great option. However, I really don't expect my wife to have the patience to learn the interface to watch movies on her own with the PS3. We have a programmable remote which has a nice "Watch Movie" button, but it has no way of turning on the PS3 or controlling it once the movie has started. Having to control the menus with a video game controller is just plain annoying (including having to push the little PS3 button in the middle of the wireless controller just to turn it on).
  They could probably use a tip or two from Apple's human interface design team...
45. Re:Place your bets... by thetoadwarrior · 2008-09-04 08:52 · Score: 1
  
  This is true. For as confident as MS claims it is when it comes to owning Sony this proves they're not.
  
  The arcade model is worthless. It doesn't have the Wii's innovation or the titles that make the Wii fun and it lacks the one thing that makes the 360 good.
46. Re:Place your bets... by KDR_11k · 2008-09-04 09:16 · Score: 1
  
  The price won't do anything with the Wii, most Wii purchases are to people who don't care about the XBox anyway. The Wii has reached people who don't usually play videogames, those people aren't going to get a regular videogame instead.
  Price only means something when comparing the XBox and PS3 since those two are interchangeable to some degree, for most of the buyers a Wii isn't.
  
  --
  Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
47. Re:Place your bets... by KDR_11k · 2008-09-04 09:47 · Score: 1
  
  The tie-in ratio isn't that much different from other consoles if NPD is to be believed. The brave company part comes in because few companies actually know how to make a successful Wii game since you can't just take an old genre and slap it on the system, the userbase has expectations that differ from those on previous consoles. Hence games like Carnival Games sell big while more traditional titles fall flat. The good news is that it seems the new values are cheaper to develop for than the old values so if you land a hit it's worth a lot of money.
  
  --
  Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
48. Re:Place your bets... by KDR_11k · 2008-09-04 09:54 · Score: 1
  
  Apparently this is one of the problems with the Wii is that very few people buy very many games for and most of the games purchased for it ARE Nintendo first party games.
  There's still plenty left for third parties.
  The Wii has a nice price point, likely to drop now I think in wake of moves by the other two
  I doubt that, they have no reason to drop it. The Wii doesn't have to be the cheapest system on the block since it's the only system of its class (appeals to groups outside the standard gamer group)
  As to graphical limitations of the Wii, it should be entirely possible for them to take the higher resolution models/textures/etc. and down samplle them very nicely to something suitable to other less "powerful" platforms.
  Automatic polygon reduction is messy and shaders can change the approach taken for texturing. Most companies aren't trying to get normalmapping running on the Wii and just give it a PSP port.
  
  --
  Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
49. Re:Place your bets... by KDR_11k · 2008-09-04 10:01 · Score: 1
  
  Counting previous generation sales isn't terribly helpful since those consoles have been on the market several times longer than the ones we're looking at now and a comparison in performance isn't really meaningful until the current consoles have reached the end of their life. What makes more sense to look at is how the old big consoles sold at which point in their life and how the new consoles compare (i.e. if they're on track to reach the same EOL sales).
  
  --
  Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
50. Re:Place your bets... by KDR_11k · 2008-09-04 10:28 · Score: 1
  
  the Arcade is also a high-def console, an up-converting DVD player, and a high-def Media Center Extender. As a result, potential Wii buyers might be looking at the these Arcade features that the Wii lacks.
  No.
  People who are looking for a Wii are not looking for a DVD player, a HD console or a media center, they're looking for a system that plays games like Wii Sports and Wii Fit. It's completely irrelevant what extra features the 360 has, it lacks the very things people buy a Wii for.
  In fact the Wii's success comes from realizing that all these extra features aren't really relevant and are more than most users can process anyway. By removing the unnecessary features and instead offering a major feature that any user can handle they gave the Wii a popular selling point the competition couldn't scratch while making the competition's selling points irrelevant to the market.
  
  --
  Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
51. Re:Place your bets... by KDR_11k · 2008-09-04 10:33 · Score: 1
  
  Interestingly I see the "toy chest" pop up in fitness and sports related contexts (e.g. events held by various fitness tool stores tend to have Wiis present too) while the competitive device is nowhere to be seen outside of the entertainment context. Just to put those terms into perspective. The 360 and PS3 are for basement dwellers like us, the Wii is for average people too.
  
  --
  Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
52. Re:Place your bets... by KDR_11k · 2008-09-04 10:42 · Score: 1
  
  (Not pre-announcing the enhancement to the Wiimote to 3rd parties? LucasArts is pissed...)
  I'm not sure there even was something to announce before they did, the thing's still far away so it's possible this was the point where they'd usually reveal it to developers only but instead they made it public.
  Another aspect is that many people expected MS or Sony to unveil their own Wiimote knockoff at E3, by announcing the improvement shortly beforehand any such announcement would look outdated and the competitor wouldn't even have time to make up some bullshit about how they got their own version of that in the works. Unveiling the thing to third parties would be the same as telling the competition about it so they might have had to keep it secret.
  (and get some QC on the shovelware... it's bringing the brand down...)
  Not much they can do, telling third parties they can't release really bad games would just cause a backlash. They already check for some technical issues but vetoing something because it's shovelware isn't a good idea. Most of the shovelware was ported from the PS2 anyway so it went through Sony's approval process just fine. Sony has harsher requirements in the US, blocking e.g. the whole Simple 2000 series. While that's mostly garbage it kept the Earth Defense Force games out of the US until the third game came to the XBox 360.
  
  --
  Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
53. Re:Place your bets... by ravenshrike · 2008-09-04 10:55 · Score: 1
  
  Betcha even without a price drop Sony comes back out on top the month after the 360 price drop.
54. Re:Place your bets... by renegadesx · 2008-09-04 10:56 · Score: 1
  
  Damm you NTSC regions, we dont even have a release date yet! Here (Australia) Second Opinion just came out 2 weeks ago! (I imported from UK ages ago)
  
  --
  Make SELinux enforcing again!
55. Re:Place your bets... by ravenshrike · 2008-09-04 11:07 · Score: 1
  
  http://reviews.cnet.com/game-accessories/sony-playstation-3-blu/4505-10110_7-32327368.html TaDaaaaaaaaahhhh!
56. Re:Place your bets... by Doctor_Jest · 2008-09-04 12:44 · Score: 1
  
  LucasArts was making the Force Unleashed with Wiimote "Lightsaber action" and they would've loved to be involved with a device that made the wiimote more precise. I tend to agree with them... it seems that Nintendo gave a big fat finger to the 3rd parties for a device that is not going to be bundled with new Wiis (which is a good thing for us current owners..heh). I mean Lucasarts is just one high profile 3rd party that was outwardly peeved. The other parties are probably not so vocal, but just as pissed. Maybe it's overrated since it's not going to be required for most games, and it'll be one of those add-ons (like Microsoft's HDD) that drive development a different direction (not caching on the HDD unless you have one is the closest to "using" the HDD on the 360 we've seen from devs.)
  
  As for the shovelware, the PS2 didn't get as much shovelware until Sony revised their requirements of the Ps2 devs _after_ the Ps3 launch (or near to it.) The Wii's had shovelware from day one, because Nintendo doesn't levy any quality requirements anymore, so there can be 10000 carnival style balloon-pop knockoff games in the channel, weakening the brand... like Atari's bout with the glut in the early 80's. Can you justify a $50 game when there are 35 other games just like it for $19 that suck? Nintendo used to have a tight leash on quality with their other consoles... I don't understand why they don't now... it just seems odd to me. That's not to say the games are all bad, but the Signal to noise ratio is bad for N this go-round.
  
  Sony's market approval process per region probably forgoes some good niche titles over here, but even a well-received title that sells poorly doesn't bode well in shareholder's eyes I guess... so they try to only pick the "big sellers" (and they sometimes miss that boat as well... heh.) But letting mostly garbage in to get 1 or 2 great titles that are diamonds in the rough (so to speak) is not a good strategy for any of the game console companies to have, considering the lack of shelf space now... and it's only getting worse as far as longevity and sales numbers go... too much competing for the same dollar amount as last generation is putting a strain on them all... and with software sales (for most companies... dunno about Nintendo) being the recouping asset (like razorblades)... not selling because of shovelware is bad for long-term health.
  
  Just my disconnected thoughts. :)
  
  --
  It's the Stay-Puft Marshmallow Man.
57. Re:Place your bets... by renegadesx · 2008-09-04 13:56 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah I am aware of that, that is not the sort of consumer I was talking about. That is more of a case of the "singstar crowd" becomming the "wii sports crowd".
  
  --
  Make SELinux enforcing again!
58. Re:Place your bets... by KDR_11k · 2008-09-05 00:53 · Score: 1
  
  As for the shovelware, the PS2 didn't get as much shovelware until Sony revised their requirements of the Ps2 devs _after_ the Ps3 launch (or near to it.)
  You're American? SCEA had a no-shovelware policy but the rest of the world saw piles upon piles of it before the PS3 was even announced.
  Nintendo used to have a tight leash on quality with their other consoles... I don't understand why they don't now...
  It destroyed their relationships with third parties and those wounds still haven't healed. Nintendo has a hard time getting third parties to invest money into developing Wii games, telling them to fuck off when the game doesn't meet some no-shovelware standards isn't going to help (publishers seem to grasp at any reason to stop supporting Nintendo and if it's just shovelware not getting released).
  Sony's market approval process per region probably forgoes some good niche titles over here, but even a well-received title that sells poorly doesn't bode well in shareholder's eyes I guess... so they try to only pick the "big sellers" (and they sometimes miss that boat as well... heh.) But letting mostly garbage in to get 1 or 2 great titles that are diamonds in the rough (so to speak) is not a good strategy for any of the game console companies to have, considering the lack of shelf space now...
  Stores allocate shelf space to titles they expect to sell independent of how many other non-selling titles there are, they know what's niche and don't stock many copies of that. The likes of Ninjabread Man don't really take shelf space from games like Smash Bros.
  Also with the Wii it's hard to tell what will sell and what not, Carnival Games would usually have failed a shovelware test but it sold like hotcakes. Does it make sense to block a game that could be a megaseller because it doesn't look like one according to traditional standards?
  
  --
  Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
59. Re:Place your bets... by Doctor_Jest · 2008-09-05 01:44 · Score: 1
  
  You're American? SCEA had a no-shovelware policy but the rest of the world saw piles upon piles of it before the PS3 was even announced.
  
  It's usually the case at the end of any console's lifecycle, shovelware policy or not. We mostly see the cruft start showing up when the system's winding down... the PS2 has been surprisingly strong even in this generation, so I could chalk that up to installed base/anomaly... (The XBox dropped off the radar pretty quick once Microsoft said it was done with that gen...)
  
  It destroyed their relationships with third parties and those wounds still haven't healed.
  
  But that's generally not attributed to their quality policy... there's a myriad of things that Nintendo did to poison third parties long ago... we're only now seeing them simply not bother to come back, and Nintendo, for all its cleverness, hasn't figured out it's really them that is the problem. :) I think if they had a quality policy and it was clear, along with more helpful developer relationships, we'd see less shovelware and the S2N ratio would drop considerably... sure the amount of games would drop off, but even with the top selling console, having so many similar games cannot bode well for people wanting to find something in the pile of white boxes at the local Wal Mart.
  
  Also with the Wii it's hard to tell what will sell and what not, Carnival Games would usually have failed a shovelware test but it sold like hotcakes. Does it make sense to block a game that could be a megaseller because it doesn't look like one according to traditional standards?
  
  I'm not talking in terms of "this is a weird game, hence we're blocking it" sort of quality policy, but the 300+ other games that are exactly like Carnival Games (only less polished and more craptacular) need to be weeded out. Didn't get your Carnival Games knockoff in before the first one dropped? Find another gimmick. No one who thinks the Wii's full of also-rans and shovelware advocates removing the ability to create unique games, but simply because it uses the Wiimote doesn't make it unique. I think if you had "monkey crapfight 2008" developed for the Wii, Nintendo would approve it, provided they made the poo pink or blue or something. I don't really think in an era where big budget titles are selling like poopy-flavored lollipops we should spend most of our time wading through "Circus games, bubble circus games pop, pop balloon circus games" and the like to find the "right" one.
  
  I imagine since we're more in the know about titles, studios, and reputations that we do make more informed decisions about titles we buy (but we can get burned just like anyone else). However, nintendo's grabbed a new group of people who aren't that versed. If they get 3 or 4 absolutely cruddy games that should've not made the cut, it's going to sour them and all the gains Nintendo made will evaporate when the successor to the Wii comes out. Maybe that's why the attach rate for the Wii is so low? *shrug* Oh, and yes, I'm American... so SCEA has insulated me from some of the rest of the world's craptastic PS2 titles. :)
  
  --
  It's the Stay-Puft Marshmallow Man.
60. Re:Place your bets... by jdgreen7 · 2008-09-12 04:24 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah, but that remote can't control every other device that I have... I really dislike having more than one remote. What's the point?
Alright by dunezone · 2008-09-03 11:22 · Score: 3, Insightful

"Here's to hoping that helps Microsoft's recent hardware sales woes." - Kotaku
Hardware sales woes? Its the summer season, a time that has historically shown a decline in sales due to the fact not many publishers release at this time. September through December are the hot months for releasing a game and a perfect time to lower a console price to make the system more appealing.
1. Re:Alright by MyLongNickName · 2008-09-03 11:33 · Score: 1
  
  So you drop price when demand is higher? That is something I have a hard time believing.
  
  --
  See my journal for slashdot ID's by year. Mine created in 2005. http://slashdot.org/journal/289875/slashdot-ids-by-year
2. Re:Alright by dunezone · 2008-09-03 11:40 · Score: 1
  
  So you drop price when demand is higher?
  Yes, you make the console a loss-leader. You make it back on the consumer buying software titles, xbox live service, downloadable content, and peripheral sales.
3. Re:Alright by jaxtherat · 2008-09-03 12:34 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  And that's why there's people smarter than you running businesses.
  
  --
  http://www.zombieapocalypse.tv/
4. Re:Alright by jaxtherat · 2008-09-03 13:08 · Score: 1
  
  Thank you sir for those kind remarks :)
  *hugs*
  
  --
  http://www.zombieapocalypse.tv/
5. Re:Alright by Anonymous Coward · 2008-09-03 14:00 · Score: 0
  
  :), finally someone who understands the language of the Anonymous Coward. *hugs back*
6. Re:Alright by Anonymous Coward · 2008-09-03 14:16 · Score: 0
  
  Your sig looks like some sort of dig against Creative Commons.
7. Re:Alright by jaxtherat · 2008-09-03 15:25 · Score: 1
  
  How so? I hope I'm not misrepresenting what we've done. I'm curious, have you gone to the site?
  www.insecuritymovie.com
  We've independently produced, shot and released a fully CC 3.0 feature film. A jab it certainly ain't :)
  
  --
  http://www.zombieapocalypse.tv/
8. Re:Alright by Anonymous Coward · 2008-09-03 17:29 · Score: 0
  
  And you make it a loss-leader BECAUSE both your competitors do better than you (which obviously means people think both your competitors have better valued systems). You make it a loss-leader with the hope of increasing demand.
9. Re:Alright by the_B0fh · 2008-09-03 23:23 · Score: 1
  
  Riiiiiiight.
  That's why we see Nintendo rushing in to drop the price on Wii.
  You also believe that even though you lose money on each unit, but you can make it up on volume, right?
10. Re:Alright by squiggleslash · 2008-09-04 02:43 · Score: 1
  
  Not exactly a fair comparison (though I agree the "loss-leader" thing is overstated.) Nintendo hasn't been able to keep up with demand for the Wii since its creation. Dropping the price would do nothing to increase sales, which is the purpose of loss-leading. Making more of them is the only thing Nintendo can do at this stage to increase sales.
  
  --
  You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
11. Re:Alright by Don853 · 2008-09-04 04:59 · Score: 1
  
  They have to be holding back production to continue the shortage at this point, don't they? It's not like there's anything in the Wii like the Cell that was fundamentally error prone in the early days of the console - and two years aught to be plenty of time to ramp up production. I'm rather perplexed why Wii production hasn't caught up with demand.
12. Re:Alright by spyder913 · 2008-09-04 05:53 · Score: 1
  
  Possibly because ramping up production rates is expensive, for little to no increase in sales?
13. Re:Alright by Anonymous Coward · 2008-09-04 05:53 · Score: 0
  
  No - the point is it sounds kind of like you are saying that a movie licensed under CC3 is a textbook definition of "insecurity" because CC3 isn't copyright.
  Kind of like someone saying:
  Insecurity: When the government no longer respects the right of habeus corpus.
  Insecurity: When your bank asks you to set a password, but then never uses it when you access your account.
14. Re:Alright by KDR_11k · 2008-09-04 10:44 · Score: 1
  
  Sony's CEO Stringer already admitted that was a bad idea (for the PS3), will MS follow suit?
  
  --
  Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
15. Re:Alright by jaxtherat · 2008-09-04 12:26 · Score: 1
  
  Gotcha, thanks!
  
  --
  http://www.zombieapocalypse.tv/
Red Ring of Death Now Cheaper! by syntap · 2008-09-03 11:30 · Score: 1

I'd feel better if there was a hardware revision along with the price cut... are people still experiencing the red ring of death? I have held off on next gen consoles to this point due to low availability and high price points. I have held off on the 360 specifically due to hardware quality issues.
1. Re:Red Ring of Death Now Cheaper! by Eponymous+Crowbar · 2008-09-03 11:35 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  I think the RROD started being much less common with the HDMI-equipped models, but then again I have a first-gen that has been fine since day one. They have been updated a few times since they were introduced, and each generation has been more reliable.
2. Re:Red Ring of Death Now Cheaper! by kcbnac · 2008-09-03 11:39 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  Microsoft already switched to 65nm parts from the original 90nm parts quite awhile back.
  http://www.google.com/search?q=Xbox+360+goes+65nm
  From what I remember, after that people were liking how cool the systems ran. There also were some obvious ways to check your system, to identify which it was. (I think this was aimed at those getting potential refurbs from the RRoD)
3. Re:Red Ring of Death Now Cheaper! by HappyDrgn · 2008-09-03 11:44 · Score: 1
  
  The problem seems to be with cheap hardware, something you'd be hard pressed to avoid while trying to build what's basically a computer for under $300. I'd be skeptical of any claims that these issues are totally resolved without a price hike of $200+. However, Microsoft is offering extended 3 year warranties for hardware failures. I've owned an xbox for about two years and a Wii since launch day. I've had no problems with my xbox, but have returned my Wii to Nintendo for repair three times due to hardware failures. Each time Nintendo was very friendly and fixed my system in a couple hours (I live a few miles from the repair center). I would expect Microsoft to do the same if I ever have problems. Bleeding edge tech stuff breaks, I don't expect it to be perfect.
4. Re:Red Ring of Death Now Cheaper! by Inglix+the+Mad · 2008-09-03 11:50 · Score: 1
  
  Still a pain to send back for the nth time. My friend has gone through 3 - 360's in 18 months.
  
  --
  People say the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Why? Is there any shortage of bad ones?
5. Re:Red Ring of Death Now Cheaper! by Jorophose · 2008-09-03 12:31 · Score: 1
  
  Yet it still doesn't erase the legendary 33% failure rate ths 360 still has going.
  I hear from an anonymous coward claiming to be a walmart higher-up that this is the biggest failure of a product without being recalled...
6. Re:Red Ring of Death Now Cheaper! by maglor_83 · 2008-09-03 15:53 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  I hear from an anonymous coward claiming to be a walmart higher-up
  I'm not sure who I trust less - an anonymous coward or a Walmart higher-up.
7. Re:Red Ring of Death Now Cheaper! by Blakey+Rat · 2008-09-03 17:00 · Score: 1
  
  Don't believe everything you read on Slashdot. I have a launch-day 360 that I've played at least 10 hours a week for the last few years, and it's never given me a second of trouble. Obviously, there have been hardware problems, but it's not even close to as bad as people make it sound.
  
  --
  Comment of the year
8. Re:Red Ring of Death Now Cheaper! by tbannist · 2008-09-04 01:48 · Score: 1
  
  ... because your anecdotes are so much more scientific than other peoples?
  I don't own a 360, but everyone I know who has one is on their second or third 360. Talked to the guy at the local game shop, he's on his 5th.
  I hear the real number is about 1 in 3 consoles will red ring of death during the first year.
  
  --
  Fanatically anti-fanatical
9. Re:Red Ring of Death Now Cheaper! by Blakey+Rat · 2008-09-04 04:40 · Score: 1
  
  Even if the number is 1-in-3, you just wrote a comment specifically designed to make it sound like it was much higher (In your case, 2-5 Xbox failures per person.) That's the kind of exaggeration I'm talking about.
  Yes, I know that my working Xbox isn't really relevant to the discussion as an anecdote, but if the real number is 1-in-3, then I represent 66% of customers and your "everyone I know" represents 33%, and that puts me ahead. :)
  
  --
  Comment of the year
10. Re:Red Ring of Death Now Cheaper! by tbannist · 2008-09-04 06:13 · Score: 1
  
  The industry standard acceptable fail rate is 3%-5%. With an estimated 30-40% fail rate the Xbox 360 is failing at about 6 to 8 times the maximum acceptable rate.
  
  --
  Fanatically anti-fanatical
11. Re:Red Ring of Death Now Cheaper! by Jorophose · 2008-09-04 10:32 · Score: 1
  
  Well, the numbers look realistic.
  Hey, you know what'd be funny, if there's only 2/3 of the xbox users reported and the others are RRoD'ed units...
Hypnotism all right... by Hitto · 2008-09-03 11:36 · Score: 2, Insightful

It's called super smash bros!
I'm still not buying a 360, anyway. I do hope this moves sony to panic and lower the price on anything able to run anything with "metal gear" slapped on it, though.
1. Re:Hypnotism all right... by Eponymous+Crowbar · 2008-09-03 11:46 · Score: 1
  
  The last Wii game we got was that diving game where you swim with tropical fish. My 6 year old loves it and my 2 year old runs around yelling "Fishies!" at the top of her lungs. But they play maybe a couple hours a week, while our two 360s are played closer to a total of 70 hours a week (family of 6). I'm getting more value from my 360 investment.
2. Re:Hypnotism all right... by CastrTroy · 2008-09-03 12:02 · Score: 1
  
  It's called Endless Ocean. Great game. One of the good things about it was that it only cost $30 the day it was released. I played it for a bit, kind of lost interest after a while, but I still play it every once in a while. Definitely a great pick up and play games. The great thing about the Wii, is that it's creating a lot of shorter cheaper title so you don't have to spend months playing the game to get halfway through it. There still are a lot of marathon type games. But something about the Wii has made publishers push out a lot of smaller games. I haven't seen that for the other systems.
  
  --
  
  Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
3. Re:Hypnotism all right... by AKAImBatman · 2008-09-03 12:03 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  I'm thinking the problem has more to do with your choice in games than the system itself.
  Ah, the Wii. Let me count the ways...
  Excite Truck
  Blast Works
  Lost Winds
  Defend Your Castle
  Mario Galaxy
  Geometry Wars: Galaxies
  Zackuuuu and Wiki
  Link's Crossbow Training
  Ghost Squad
  Wild West Guns
  Super Paper Mario
  Twilight Princess
  Mario Kart: Wii
  Paper Mario 64
  Super Mario RPG
  Blazing Lazers
  Axelay
  Toki Tori
  Internet Channel (Go challenge someone to a web game.)
  Gate of Thunder
  Simcity
  Zelda 64
  Guitar Hero 3
  Super Smash Bros Brawl
  That's just some of the games I play on my Wii. I haven't even mentioned all the GameCube titles I got for cheap. Some of them are quite fun. (Though I'll grant that most remind me of why I never got a GCN or PS2.)
  
  --
  Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
4. Re:Hypnotism all right... by Eponymous+Crowbar · 2008-09-03 12:25 · Score: 1
  
  Some of those games are supposed to be pretty good, but game choice isn't why I spend time on the 360 vs the Wii. I like to play games with other people. Sure, the Wii is good for playing while you are all in one room, but that never happens. I play online with a steady group of about 25 people in multiple U.S. states. We play primarily shooters in multiplayer mode. I might spend 10 or 20 hours playing the single-player campaign for games like Halo 3 or Call of Duty 4, but then I play them online in multiplayer mode for more hours than I could even begin to track. I have 360 games that are very good -- like Bioshock and Mass Effect -- that can't even compete for my playing time. I'll probably never find enough time to check out the games on your list.
5. Re:Hypnotism all right... by Jorophose · 2008-09-03 12:28 · Score: 1
  
  That's the sad thing about the Wii, it's in a small slump because developpers laughed at it (now the assholes are paying with blood), and Nintendo can't release smash hits every year.
  I think that's the reason why they started VC in the first place. Well, that and they had made a promise a long time ago in a certain magazine of fame... :)
6. Re:Hypnotism all right... by raftpeople · 2008-09-03 12:56 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  It's called super smash bros!
  We have an Xbox360, PS3 and an old N64. When the kids friends come over (ages 12 to 17), they all jump on the N64 and super smash bros, pretty amazing.
7. Re:Hypnotism all right... by bluefoxlucid · 2008-09-03 13:42 · Score: 1
  
  Find Eternal Darkness: Sanity's Requium. Gamecube. Tales of Symphonia too.
  
  --
  Support my political activism on Patreon.
8. Re:Hypnotism all right... by nomadic · 2008-09-03 13:47 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  That's the sad thing about the Wii, it's in a small slump because developpers laughed at it (now the assholes are paying with blood), and Nintendo can't release smash hits every year.
  
  The Wii's been out for almost 2 years, which is longer than the development cycle of a game, so I don't think that's it. And Nintendo has a 30 year history of screwing over developers, so I think there's a natural resistance to develop for them on the part of some people. There's also the problem with the Wii being underpowered in terms of hardware, which discourages multiplatform development.
9. Re:Hypnotism all right... by Anonymous Coward · 2008-09-03 14:07 · Score: 0
  
  ugh... Glad I didn't buy a wee, a wiz... no a wii cause almost all those game suck..
10. Re:Hypnotism all right... by Jorophose · 2008-09-03 14:26 · Score: 1
  
  I don't really think they've ever screwed over developpers, unless you mean they make great first party games that wipe them out.
  It's not underpowered at all. You kids just seem to think everyone's got an HDTV, now get off my lawn. :)
11. Re:Hypnotism all right... by nomadic · 2008-09-03 14:35 · Score: 1
  
  I don't really think they've ever screwed over developpers, unless you mean they make great first party games that wipe them out.
  
  Eh, I've never been that impressed with Nintendo's first party games. And by screwing them over I wasn't really talking about that, but rather a wide assortment of things they've done over the years, like forcing developers to only develop for their console (before the Genesis and subsequent systems broke their monopoly), requiring developers to get Nintendo's approval before releasing games, surprising developers with new accessory releases without giving them any lead time, etc.
12. Re:Hypnotism all right... by deek · 2008-09-03 15:09 · Score: 1
  
  I hear that Okami on the Wii is fantastic. I haven't played it, but when I get a Wii, I'm planning on picking it up.
13. Re:Hypnotism all right... by Anonymous Coward · 2008-09-03 17:04 · Score: 0
  
  Don't you think a PC is a better system for shooters?
14. Re:Hypnotism all right... by clickclickdrone · 2008-09-03 21:32 · Score: 1
  
  Wii being underpowered in terms of hardware, which discourages multiplatform development.
  A friend in the games industry tells me they use the same assets (graphics data, audio etc) when developing 360/PS3 games but have different sets shared between PSP/Wii.
  
  --
  I want a list of atrocities done in your name - Recoil
15. Re:Hypnotism all right... by zoward · 2008-09-03 21:49 · Score: 1
  
  I hear that Okami on the Wii is fantastic. I haven't played it, but when I get a Wii, I'm planning on picking it up.
  It is. One minor frustration is that the wiimote is hard to get used to using as a "calligraphy brush", but it's still a fantastic game.
  
  --
  "Can't you see that everyone is buying station wagons?"
16. Re:Hypnotism all right... by chrish · 2008-09-03 23:24 · Score: 1
  
  Two year dev cycle? Clearly you've never heard of Duke Nukem' Forever or Too Human...
  If devs ignored the Wii for a year, they've only had a year of design and development. The design bit might hit certain devs hard, since the Wii's controls can be pretty different... games with motion controls tacked on are crap and word spreads about that sort of thing.
  That said, I'm planning on picking up a "Pro" 360 at some point this year. There are just too many good games for it, and I'm sick of screwing around with my PC. We still play a bit on the PS2, but its use has gone down drastically since we got the Wii.
  
  --
  - chrish
17. Re:Hypnotism all right... by Anonymous Coward · 2008-09-04 00:25 · Score: 0
  
  "I don't really think they've ever screwed over developpers, unless you mean they make great first party games that wipe them out."
  
  Then you don't know the history of Nintendo.
18. Re:Hypnotism all right... by _Hiro_ · 2008-09-04 01:20 · Score: 1
  
  "requiring developers to get Nintendo's approval before releasing games"
  Sony still does this too. (See Working Designs and Goemon for the PS2.)
  
  --
  -Pope Peter Porker, S.O.W., K.M.K.R., U.G.O.A., F.S.G.S.D.
19. Re:Hypnotism all right... by somersault · 2008-09-04 04:00 · Score: 1
  
  I had a Wii long before SSB, but the fact it took so long to come out, and that I ended up getting a PS3 and several games before SSB arrived means that I just loaned it to my sister instead. SSB really doesn't look worth getting the Wii back for (and it would be pretty sick of me considering my sis just got Wii Fit for her birthday)
  
  --
  which is totally what she said
20. Re:Hypnotism all right... by somersault · 2008-09-04 04:10 · Score: 1
  
  Actually I'd never heard of Too Human until I saw ads for it in the last couple of weeks :s Heard of DNF maybe 8 years ago or more though.
  Seeing as it's Xbox only I don't really care though :) The only thing XBox really has that I wish the PS3 had is a decent port of the source engine. But if I really wanted to play Counter-Strike or anything like that again I could just resurrect my old gaming PC. The games I've got for PS3 have been enough to keep me occupied though I even enjoyed playing Battlefield: Bad Compan with just a joypad - something I never though I'd be able to do with an FPS.
  
  --
  which is totally what she said
21. Re:Hypnotism all right... by thetoadwarrior · 2008-09-04 08:59 · Score: 1
  
  ...like forcing developers to only develop for their console (before the Genesis and subsequent systems broke their monopoly), requiring developers to get Nintendo's approval before releasing games, surprising developers with new accessory releases without giving them any lead time, etc.
  Exclusives have been done by all companies up until gaming became too expensive that developers just wouldn't do it or hardware makers couldn't afford to pay out to make it worthwhile to a developer.
  
  All console makers require publishers to get authorization first even MS.
  
  I don't quite buy that last one especially with the likes of the rumble pak being know for ages. Nintendo hasn't been perfect but Nintendo tough love in the 8-bit days is what saved gaming.
  
  Having a totally open system is what killed off gaming before Nintendo entered. When people go nuts and are too liberal with their development sometimes you gotta swing back too far the other way to get things back in line.
22. Re:Hypnotism all right... by MBraynard · 2008-09-04 19:32 · Score: 1
  
  It's pretty typical for a console manufacturer to require approval before releasing content. I know MS (and probably Sony) have internal quality control that must be passed.
$199? by warrior_s · 2008-09-03 11:37 · Score: 1

Finally, I am going to buy it.. and am sure so do many of you!
But red ring of death might still be a concern.
1. Re:$199? by grahamd0 · 2008-09-03 14:48 · Score: 1
  
  Don't waste your money on the $199 version. You'll find out very quickly that you need a hd to get any real use out of the system.
  If you really don't need the hd on the xbox, you'd have more fun with the Wii anyway.
2. Re:$199? by manekineko2 · 2008-09-03 16:55 · Score: 1
  
  Unless you just want to play retail games, and don't care about all the online stuff, in which case the $199 version will suit you just fine.
3. Re:$199? by grahamd0 · 2008-09-04 01:26 · Score: 1
  
  Until you want to save your game.
4. Re:$199? by Solarbeat · 2008-09-04 03:32 · Score: 1
  
  The Arcade ($199) version comes with a memory card for just that purpose.
Noooooo!!!! by CrazyTalk · 2008-09-03 11:38 · Score: 3, Funny

...did I mention I work in XBox Support?
Re:pour me a mug by philspear · 2008-09-03 11:43 · Score: 1

Man, are you guys even TRYING anymore? It was just a few months ago that every first post talked about cold urine. What happened? Ran out of meth?
$199 model by Enderandrew · 2008-09-03 11:52 · Score: 3, Interesting

I'd never buy one without a HDD, but that is just me. Even with the new avatars and dash, the XBox is aimed at a different audience than the Wii. I don't think they honestly compete directly. The real competition here is Sony. Microsoft still has a larger install base, though Sony was catching up.
Now if Sony wants to honestly compete in this generation, they need to drop their core model to $300 before Black Friday. Microsoft is losing tons of money on the hardware because of RROD problems (which continue to persist, even on new Elite models) but Sony is also losing quite a bit.
The difference is that Microsoft has other business models to produce plenty of profit. Sony's other divisions are doing decent, but they aren't producing Microsoft-type revenues.
They're both shooting themselves in the foot to see who will lose the most money before the other one pulls out of the race. Why?
Because next generation, if only one competes, they don't have to lose so much money. Nintendo is competing for another segment, and either Microsoft or Sony could in theory run away solo with the high-end, hardcore console market.
Then again, neither see the true solution. Sony has BluRay, and Microsoft doesn't want to pay to license it. Microsoft has DirectX, which Sony doesn't want to utilize, even though it makes development easier for PC/Console games. Microsoft also bought the rumble patent that Sony didn't want to pay for. Neither have incredible first-party titles, and both end up shelling out money to bribe third-party developers for console exclusives, killing potential profits.
The solution really is one console. Developers would love to have a larger install base to develop for, and not worrying about porting to two platforms.
Imagine a console that could be developed for easily (DirectX), that had BluRay, and featured both Halo and Metal Gear Solid? Both Sony and Mirosoft could turn a profit on the venture. They both put their best technology in the box, with their combined patent portfolios and also combine console exclusives. Together they'd reclaim some of the market share they lost to Nintendo, even though most of Nintendo's market really is a different audience.

--
http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
1. Re:$199 model by Anonymous Coward · 2008-09-03 13:13 · Score: 0
  
  The combined console is called a PC.
2. Re:$199 model by WDot · 2008-09-03 13:38 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  While I'd agree that more similar hardware would be good, do we really want "one console?" What if that one console forces an Xbox live-style subscription service? Then I don't have a choice. What about competition? They can charge whatever for their combined box because there's no alternative for that demographic. PC gaming? Too difficult (not true, but that's the general thought). The Wii2? Nintendo's focus isn't on the 360 and PS3 crowd anymore. If this happens, Sony/Microsoft can push whatever intrusive DRM and accessory forcing strategies they want, because there's no alternative.
  
  What about developers? If there's no competition, sure it's easy development, but it also means that there's no competition for dev kits. They could make it so that only the EAs and Activisions of the world could afford dev kits, and that's simply the price to pay if you want to develop a game for the Xboxstation4.
  
  I personally don't care if it's costing Microsoft and Sony billions to compete, because at least they're COMPETING. It would cost some people a hobby if they decided to collude.
3. Re:$199 model by Enderandrew · 2008-09-03 13:52 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  I didn't say best for the consumer, I'm saying best for Sony, Microsoft and game developers. Frankly either one loses and leaves the market, or they consolidate. However, they're losing so much money I don't see both in the market indefinitely.
  As far as DRM goes, every console maker uses DRM. The PS3 is the most open console in history, and Sony's online service is free. All three companies (Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo) have done some shitty things in their day, so I won't claim any is good and/or evil. But a merged console isn't necessary a totally bad thing either.
  
  --
  http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
4. Re:$199 model by Anonymous Coward · 2008-09-03 14:06 · Score: 1, Interesting
  
  However, they're losing so much money I don't see both in the market indefinitely.
  Actually, neither of them is losing money. They're losing money on the consoles, but xbox is cleaning up with xbox live subscriptions + sales and sony isn't doing too badly on game licenses (and they'll start doing better as the installed base for ps3's increases).
  They don't need to "win" in order to make tons of profit. They just need to remain competitive enough that game studios release for both platforms.
5. Re:$199 model by Anonymous Coward · 2008-09-03 14:32 · Score: 1, Insightful
  
  Imagine a console that could be developed for easily (DirectX), that had BluRay, and featured both Halo and Metal Gear Solid?
  You mean the PC?
6. Re:$199 model by Anonymous Coward · 2008-09-03 15:23 · Score: 0
  
  Actually, neither of them is losing money.
  Not true. If I recall correctly, SONY said they lost over $1 billion in their gaming division year to date.
  While they do claim they are seeing high PS3 game title sales, PS3 is currently the lowest attached system to date. I'd be willing to say that's because a lot of those system sales are due to blu-ray movies and not gaming.
  With the decrease in PS3 exclusives (Final Fantasy exclusive no more) on top of higher system cost I would expect sales to level out soon.
7. Re:$199 model by tbannist · 2008-09-04 01:57 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  I don't think either Sony or Microsoft would want that. On Microsoft's part, they simply want to drive Sony out of the console market like Sega was driven out. Why? Because they see winning the console market once for all as the first step in establishing a monopoly on all home networking.
  If you're running Windows on your home computer and Windows on your TV, what are you going to use in the rest of your house? No, this isn't a conspiracy, just the marketing seminar I had to sit through that was essentially run and funded by Microsoft on home networking. Simply stated their goal is out maneuver Linux by taking over home electronics marketplace.
  Their goal is ridiculous and they have no idea how to do it, but that's still what they're aiming for.
  
  --
  Fanatically anti-fanatical
8. Re:$199 model by Enderandrew · 2008-09-04 05:44 · Score: 1
  
  If Microsoft had no RROD problems, the Xbox division might turn a profit, but the entire division is losing big money because of hardware replacements. Sony's gaming division is also reporting losses on the whole for their division.
  
  --
  http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
9. Re:$199 model by Enderandrew · 2008-09-04 05:45 · Score: 1
  
  I agree that they're trying to just drive the other out of market, but both are losing money and both have the same goal. They're playing a game of chicken. Who is willing to lose the most to stay in the race? That is what they want, but not necessary what is the smartest thing for them to do.
  
  --
  http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
10. Re:$199 model by SoopahMan · 2008-09-04 05:56 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  One console would harm competition though. For example, Sony briefly was deluded into thinking that Blu-Ray and the PS3 were going to conquer all. As part of the Blu-Ray standard at the time, there were serious, serious limitations on existing HDTVs when playing Blu-Ray content - basically you got near-SD picture because you had an unapproved device. It sucked, and HD-DVD could thump it for that. Just before the PS3 was released, Sony dropped that limitation.
  Without that competition that wouldn't have happened. Without competition, Sony would probably be doing much worse DRM things to gamers. And we gamers could all stand there and say, "Good thing there's only one next gen console I have to buy. Too bad it sucks." Competition gets DRM providers to get rid of their stupid DRM - it's happened here, and it's happening in the online music industry right now. You've got to have multiple consoles if you want to keep gaming and video playback reasonable for the consumer.
11. Re:$199 model by bartok · 2008-09-04 08:07 · Score: 1
  
  There's no way in hell that Microsoft would have licensed DirectX to Sony. They would have shot themselves in the foot.
Microsoft's Xbox Fiasco by Anonymous Coward · 2008-09-03 12:00 · Score: 5, Informative

Slashing the price of the 360 to below Wii levels isn't going to do anything.
The first Xbox sold around 24-25 million between November 2001 and June 2005 when it went out of production.
The Xbox 360 has sold just over 19.5 million worldwide(sorry vgchartz fake sales numbers) with about 9 months left before it reaches the same point in the Xbox's life where Microsoft pulled the plug on the console.
The Xbox and Xbox 360 are selling at a virtually identical rate.
Microsoft only shipped 2.3 million new Xbox 360's worldwide for the first half of 2008.
The Xbox 360 is selling at a virtually identical sales rate in the three major console regions, Japan, US, and Euopre.
Dead in Japan.
Dead in almost all of Europe outside the UK
Almost all the remaining sales coming from the US.
The Xbox 360 is selling to the exact same people who bought the first Xbox. Cutting prices isn't going to do anything. The demand simply isn't there. Just like the first Xbox there already is talk of the next Halo on the next Xbox being the savior of the platform.
Microsoft is letting PC gaming die from neglect while they waste their time getting nowhere in the console market. The 7 billion dollars Microsoft wasted in the console market could have been better used to revitalize they dying PC game market and keep PC developers from jumping to the console market.
1. Re:Microsoft's Xbox Fiasco by Jorophose · 2008-09-03 12:30 · Score: 1
  
  Why is parent modded troll? It's really informative to say the least.
  Remember kids, troll isn't "I hate you", it's "You're cruising for a bruising!".
2. Re:Microsoft's Xbox Fiasco by philspear · 2008-09-03 13:22 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  That's some shoddy logic there. Extreme oversimplification. The 360 has lost a lot of money due to the technical problems. The logical conclusion there is to fix those problems and not make the same mistakes, yet you seem willing to declare a microsoft console as fundamentally a bad idea that can never work. Tell me it's not just because you're upset about the state of PC gaming.
  PC gaming is dying out because people like to play games rather than wasting time on computer maintenece. I know what your opinion of us must be, but I get no joy out of installing new software or hardware so I can play the latest game. I could definitely learn how to do that, but I much prefer plugging my console into the TV, putting the disc in, and playing immediately. I play games to relax, not to do work. MS spending money on the PC market would be a waste.
  I also have to point out that the PS3 is not doing great either. You'd have me believe that the next console is going to be just nintendo out there alone?
3. Re:Microsoft's Xbox Fiasco by philspear · 2008-09-03 13:55 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  I admit I don't have much proof that the PS3 is doing poorly, but the wiki pages say the PS3 has sold numbers that are lower than the 360. Hard to account for the gap in releases, but the point is that it's not a blowaway sucess compared to the 360. It's also not very scientific, but I don't personally know anyone with a PS3, I know of many with 360s. That could be due to the Japan thing. And with games, the tide certainly seems to be going in the favor of the 360.
  Reguardless, the 360 is not the worst console, that's absurd.
4. Re:Microsoft's Xbox Fiasco by BoberFett · 2008-09-03 15:50 · Score: 3, Funny
  
  Bitter Sony Fanboy?
5. Re:Microsoft's Xbox Fiasco by Anonymous Coward · 2008-09-04 01:28 · Score: 0
  
  PS3 is doing fine. It's closing the gap on the 360 at a very fast rate. The 12month US and 18mont European headstart for the 360 has all but evaporated.
6. Re:Microsoft's Xbox Fiasco by tbannist · 2008-09-04 01:39 · Score: 1
  
  The AC you responded to was implying that traditionally, Sony's consoles have very weak initial sales. By the time they reach the age that Microsoft kills their consoles, sales have picked up and then continue for more than twice as long. Over the life span they end up selling 4 times as many of each console as Microsoft does (100+ million versus 25 million).
  Will the trend hold true a third time? Maybe, maybe not. The PS3 is largely dependent on the HD uptake rate, which is dependent on the world economy. Currently Bush's failed policies are causing the U.S. economy to tank, which may hobble the PS3 sales since upgrading to HD is a generally a big optional purchase (often $3,000-$5,000 total). When the economy is poor, people hold off on making those purchases.
  Essentially, the Xbox 360 has more sold to date, however, PS3 sales appear to be trending upwards, while Xbox 360 sales are trending downwards.
  He's spinning it as the classic tortoise and hare story.
  
  --
  Fanatically anti-fanatical
7. Re:Microsoft's Xbox Fiasco by ivan256 · 2008-09-04 02:14 · Score: 1
  
  PC gaming is dying out because people like to play games rather than wasting time figuring out why the DRM won't let their game run.
  Fixed that for you.
8. Re:Microsoft's Xbox Fiasco by xhrit · 2008-09-04 02:21 · Score: 0, Flamebait
  
  a directx console was a bad idea way back when it was called the dreamcast. it is still a bad idea.
  
  opengl is better.
  
  --
  Dungeon Tactics : Free Open Source SRPG
9. Re:Microsoft's Xbox Fiasco by 0xdeadbeef · 2008-09-04 04:26 · Score: 1
  
  Why was there no option for Sony fanboys on the poll?
10. Re:Microsoft's Xbox Fiasco by Anonymous Coward · 2008-09-04 07:51 · Score: 0
  
  I admit I don't have much proof that the PS3 is doing poorly, but the wiki pages say the PS3 has sold numbers that are lower than the 360.
  The 360 was released how much earlier than the PS3?
  At least compare how many 360's had been sold when it was as old as the PS3, to get a somewhat reasonable comparison.
  Hell, there are more new Mustangs sold than there are new Cameros sold too. Big fucking surprise, huh?
11. Re:Microsoft's Xbox Fiasco by philspear · 2008-09-04 08:18 · Score: 1
  
  Did you not read the VERY NEXT LINE in my post?
12. Re:Microsoft's Xbox Fiasco by ravenshrike · 2008-09-04 11:12 · Score: 1
  
  Actually, it does eat discs. I borrowed it from a friend to play Bioshock and it ended up eating a disc when my cat nudged it while I was playing. Didn't fall over, just bobbled for a second but it still ripped the hell out of the disc. Neither the PS3 or the Wii have this failing.
13. Re:Microsoft's Xbox Fiasco by LarsWestergren · 2008-09-04 23:33 · Score: 1
  
  PC gaming is dying out
  People have been saying that since Playstation 1, and PC gaming is assuredly still not dying. If you count international and online sales, it is still the #1 platform. Sure, these days all consoles *taken together* beats it, but...
  because people like to play games rather than wasting time on computer maintenece. I know what your opinion of us must be, but I get no joy out of installing new software or hardware so I can play the latest game.
  Last two years I've upgraded my graphics card once, that's all, I've been able to play all the latest games (well, except Vista exclusive titles, all two of them.) Perhaps not at the highest graphics settings, but that is not important to me anyway.
  I could definitely learn how to do that, but I much prefer plugging my console into the TV, putting the disc in, and playing immediately. ....after a couple of minutes of loading you mean. I prefer to pay the one time cost of installing the game, and have almost instant load times of the game, and levels, later.
  
  --
  Being bitter is drinking poison and hoping someone else will die
Lazy by skam240 · 2008-09-03 12:10 · Score: 1

I'm lazy but still kind of care about what this article is talking about. Anyone care to let me in on what the various levels of xbox denote?

--
I ignore Anonymous Coward posts. If you want to discuss something, that's awesome. Log in.
1. Re:Lazy by Samantha+Wright · 2008-09-03 12:23 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  Think of it in terms of how much porn they can store.
  
  Arcade: public place; most people don't keep their porn stashes in public. No HDD.
  Pro: somewhat private; maybe you've spent one or two afternoons entertaining yourself on company time. Small HDD.
  Elite: parent's basement; pretend this is spelled "1337" and everything falls into place.
  
  --
  Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
Wii-lovers by voltheir · 2008-09-03 12:24 · Score: 1, Informative

In 2-3 years when you have an HD TV and surround sound, please tell me how good the Wii is. As an owner of Wii, 360, and PS3, I can assure you that the Wii gets by far the least amount of usage. It's a GameCube with a motion sensor remote. Is it really that enthralling?
1. Re:Wii-lovers by Toonol · 2008-09-03 12:43 · Score: 1
  
  Maybe in 2-3 years, that will begin to matter to most people. That'll be about when the next gen consoles hit, right?
2. Re:Wii-lovers by nomadic · 2008-09-03 13:37 · Score: 1
  
  Maybe in 2-3 years, that will begin to matter to most people. That'll be about when the next gen consoles hit, right?
  
  Sony and xbox maybe, Nintendo will do what they always do, drag their heels on developing new hardware. If they had their way we'd still be using NESes.
3. Re:Wii-lovers by Toonol · 2008-09-03 14:32 · Score: 1
  
  Disagree. Sony and Microsoft did no-brainers this gen. Their hardware improvement was incremental, Nintendo's was revolutionary. They went in different directions.
4. Re:Wii-lovers by nomadic · 2008-09-03 14:38 · Score: 1
  
  Disagree. Sony and Microsoft did no-brainers this gen. Their hardware improvement was incremental, Nintendo's was revolutionary. They went in different directions.
  
  Regardless, the fact of the matter is Nintendo traditionally refuses to develop new platforms unless the market leaves them no choice. Their ideal platform was the gameboy, and if they can get by without offering a Wii2 they will definitely prefer that.
5. Re:Wii-lovers by revlayle · 2008-09-03 16:03 · Score: 1
  
  why is a new platform needed? provide new and backward compatible graphics API and the same, but faster CPU (maybe multi-core, if really needed) and developers can start with their feet on the ground, running.
  
  MS changed all their insides this time around, luckily... DX 10 is based on a familiar development API - regardless of hardware
  
  sony said "hay lets change it all again and then make even double hard to do - w00tz cell pwn ftw n00b" (*choke*)
  
  nintendo said "know how to develop for a gamecube? great, the wii is mostly the same, with a bit faster hardware and a new input device"
6. Re:Wii-lovers by nomadic · 2008-09-03 16:09 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  why is a new platform needed? provide new and backward compatible graphics API and the same, but faster CPU (maybe multi-core, if really needed) and developers can start with their feet on the ground, running.
  
  That's a good idea, and if I ran console design that's what I would do.
  
  sony said "hay lets change it all again and then make even double hard to do - w00tz cell pwn ftw n00b" (*choke*)
  
  To be fair to Sony, the PS1 was notoriously hard to develop for, but that didn't stop it from being extremely successful.
  
  nintendo said "know how to develop for a gamecube? great, the wii is mostly the same, with a bit faster hardware and a new input device"
  
  Well that's the problem, the hardware just isn't as fast as it should be. They should have gone with something faster and more powerful, and they definitely should have put in HDMI/DVI support.
7. Re:Wii-lovers by frooddude · 2008-09-04 01:40 · Score: 1
  
  Hmm, 2-3 yrs when I have WHAT? Let's see... I have the same stereo hooked to my TV as I did 16 yrs ago. I have had the same TV (the very first I ever bought) for 10 yrs. Same PS2 since the damned thing was released. No other consoles in the house.
  PS - I have a 6 figure income.
8. Re:Wii-lovers by vux984 · 2008-09-04 04:14 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  Well that's the problem, the hardware just isn't as fast as it should be. They should have gone with something faster and more powerful, and they definitely should have put in HDMI/DVI support.
  Somethings gotta give.
  If they'd put in Hidef support, on the existing CPU/GPU, the framerate would have sucked. You can't just pump 5x as many pixels by adding an HDMI connector.
  So they would have had to significantly bump up the CPU/GPU just to deliver the same performance on HD.
  And then you want more available CPU too? Well, we just bumped it up to keep up with HDMI, but all the extra horsepower is used up just keeping up with the HD.
  So we have to bump it up again to give you some more horsepower to actually work with.
  So now we need to quadruple the processing and video power, license hdmi, probably need to worry about cooling the damned thing now too. Something's gotta give...
  Price.
  So now instead of $279 its $399 at launch, and competing directly with the PS3, sales are significantly lower, and 4 out 5 users don't have an HDTV anyway. Oh and the hidef games cost mroe to develop too... so those go up in price too.
  Epic fail.
  For what its worth, I'd love a hi-def Wii too, and if they were launching NOW instead of 2 years ago, we'd probably have gotten one. But I think Nintendo made the right choice this 'generation'. Its obviously served them better than chasing the 360 and PS3 hardware. They are the ones that actually make money in this business.
9. Re:Wii-lovers by nomadic · 2008-09-04 05:02 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  If they'd put in Hidef support, on the existing CPU/GPU, the framerate would have sucked. You can't just pump 5x as many pixels by adding an HDMI connector.
  
  You don't HAVE to transmit in 1920x1080 mind you, but having that option would be good. Action games with a lot of things on screen could use a lower resolution, but static images and puzzle games could take advantage of the higher resolution.
  
  I don't know at what level they should have done the CPU, but I do know the level they did do it at was too low. My Wii just struggles on things that no console younger than 8 years old should struggle on. I see very little difference graphics-wise between the Wii and the Dreamcast, and the Dreamcast is close to a decade old now. I mean, if you're not going to do that why not just develop the wiimote for the gamecube?
10. Re:Wii-lovers by vux984 · 2008-09-04 07:29 · Score: 1
  
  You don't HAVE to transmit in 1920x1080 mind you, but having that option would be good. Action games with a lot of things on screen could use a lower resolution, but static images and puzzle games could take advantage of the higher resolution.
  Don't be absurd. If they'd done that they would have been crucified for it on every game that couldn't do it, and you know it. They resleased a console that was spec'd for non-HD, and its powerful enough for that.
  I see very little difference graphics-wise between the Wii and the Dreamcast, and the Dreamcast is close to a decade old now.
  Sure lets compare the strongest most expensive console from last generation that failed and nearly bankrupted Sega to the weakest and least expensive console from this one.
  Sorry, the Wii's graphics are still markedly better, hands down, no contest. But I'll agree the Wii fits solidly in the space between the dreamcast and the PS3, which all things considered is exactly where one would expect it to sit.
  I mean, if you're not going to do that why not just develop the wiimote for the gamecube?
  Because then they would have sold 0.5 million remotes instead of 30 million consoles.
  Everytime someone says Nintendo should have done the Wii differently, all one has to do is point back to the sales. They've sold 30+ Million of the things in under two years, and made profit on each of them.
  Dreamcast sold 10M and nearly bankrupted.
  PS3 launched the same week as the Wii and has sold half the number of units, and has lost money hand over fist so far.
  Xbox360 launched a year in advance, lost billions, and Nintendo has already sold 3 Wii's for every 2 Xboxes.
  Say what you will about how the Wii could have been "better", or what they could have done to make YOU like it more. But Nintendo's strategy was obviously a very good one. I'm sure they could have improved it, but I'm skeptical that simply throwing some more power at it and upping the price, and positioning it closer to the 360 and PS3 would have accomplished anything.
11. Re:Wii-lovers by nomadic · 2008-09-04 09:12 · Score: 1
  
  Sure lets compare the strongest most expensive console from last generation that failed and nearly bankrupted Sega to the weakest and least expensive console from this one.
  
  The Dreamcast was a generation before the last generation, and we're talking consoles here, not cars; 10 years is several lifetimes, and just like a computer a console should be exponentially more powerful now.
  
  Everytime someone says Nintendo should have done the Wii differently, all one has to do is point back to the sales. They've sold 30+ Million of the things in under two years, and made profit on each of them.
  
  I have never believed that sales necessarily equals quality. I mean, look how successful Titanic was, doesn't mean it's a good movie. And Nintendo could have just taken a smaller profit on the systems (or even subsidized them a la Sony/MS). I like the Wii, I just wish, for my own sake, it was technologically more advanced. As it is my favorite genre of games (graphics-intensive 3d action/adventure) is severely underrepresented, partially because of this I think.
12. Re:Wii-lovers by vux984 · 2008-09-04 12:13 · Score: 1
  
  I have never believed that sales necessarily equals quality.
  But Nintendo is a business, and the Wii is a product released to make money, not meet some fuzzy ideological concept of what a perfect console should be.
  Releasing a more powerful more expensive product would very likely have reduced its commercial success.
  And Nintendo could have just taken a smaller profit on the systems (or even subsidized them a la Sony/MS).
  Now why the hell would they want to do that?
  I like the Wii, I just wish, for my own sake, it was technologically more advanced.
  EXACTLY. For your sake.
  But the reality is that if they'd built it like that it would have cost more and they likely would have been a commercial flop. The casual gamers that bought them in swarms would never have materialized, and it would be the PS3/Xbox running for the 'hardcore crown' with Wii trailing behind relying on its first party franchises -- e.g. the last generation all over again.
  As it is my favorite genre of games (graphics-intensive 3d action/adventure) is severely underrepresented, partially because of this I think.
  The moment you define your genre as 'graphics-intensive' I get a horrible feeling... is your favorite movie genre 'CGI-intensive'? ;)
  Seriously, yes the Wii being weaker than the PS3/360 has meant it doesn't make sense to do 3-way ports of the big PS3/360 titles.
  But the Wii could easily handle games like Halo, Halo2, God of War, etc... but we aren't seeing many of those either. And the reason sadly is that there are a lot of people who are graphics snobs... if its not the latest shiny they aren't interested.
  So even if there were piles of God of War class games on the Wii, these people wouldn't really be interested in them -- as they'd be 'inferior' to the 'new shiny' on the 360/PS3. I mean they used to slavor all over xbox 1 and PS2 stuff... and now you couldn't get them to play a PS2 game to save their lives.
  To a real game God of War didn't become any less fun simply because the PS3 is on the market, but you'll find swarms of people would 'epic phail' God of War if it were released today.
13. Re:Wii-lovers by nomadic · 2008-09-04 14:43 · Score: 1
  
  But Nintendo is a business, and the Wii is a product released to make money, not meet some fuzzy ideological concept of what a perfect console should be.
  
  And this is slashdot, not business week, where we should focus on quality rather than business plans.
  
  The moment you define your genre as 'graphics-intensive' I get a horrible feeling... is your favorite movie genre 'CGI-intensive'? ;)
  
  Haha nooo, I'm actually an old-school gamer (I'm talking 80's; most games I play these days are 90s games on gametap). But I do appreciate graphics in the sense that a great graphics engine + inspired art design can really add to a game. And while this definitely goes against conventional slashdot logic, just because there are pretty graphics don't mean the gameplay automatically sucks. Some of the best console games I've ever played had beautiful graphics that used the console's GPUs fully.
14. Re:Wii-lovers by Anonymous Coward · 2008-09-04 21:48 · Score: 0
  
  Pathetic.
Re:pour me a mug by moderatorrater · 2008-09-03 12:31 · Score: 0, Offtopic

*sigh* the ingenuity of trolls seems to have reached its limit. Since the political trolling started, everything kind of froze in place. For a while there was the strange sex story troll, but he didn't last too long. Frosty piss evolved over the course of about a year, and now he's stuck doing the same thing.

I'm very disappointed.
Re:pour me a mug by elrous0 · 2008-09-03 12:32 · Score: 2, Funny

Budweiser it is!

--
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
trade up by pizzach · 2008-09-03 12:35 · Score: 1

There is a good chance people in 2-3 years be buying their Wii2s much like people suddenly started trading up to the DS Light in mass. I think Japan pushed back HDTV requirements until 2010. Nintendo, the Japan centric company that it is, is probably laughing at your comment.

--
Once you start despising the jerks, you become one.
1. Re:trade up by revlayle · 2008-09-03 13:29 · Score: 1
  
  you wait... Nintendo still bathes in cash moneys.... win-win? lose-win? either way Nintendo still wins.
Upgrading basic version? by c_forq · 2008-09-03 12:48 · Score: 2, Interesting

Now I'm tempted. Is there a way to upgrade the basic version (paying less than $100) to put a harddrive in? And the basic play GTA4 without a HD?

--
Computers allow humans to make mistakes at the fastest speeds known, with the possible exception of tequila and handguns
1. Re:Upgrading basic version? by Babbster · 2008-09-03 12:54 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  To answer your first question, I found a refurbished 20GB hard drive on Gamestop.com for $60. To answer your second question, no, GTA4 does not require a hard drive (the box says it requires 1 MB of space to save). AFAIK, the only boxed 360 game that requires a hard drive is Final Fantasy XI.
2. Re:Upgrading basic version? by burgundysizzle · 2008-09-03 13:43 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  The extension to Oblivion (assuming you had the original version and not the game of year edition) needs to be installed on the hard drive to use it as well.
3. Re:Upgrading basic version? by Babbster · 2008-09-03 14:01 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  Fair enough, and that probably goes for a lot of post-release content. Still, the games are playable without the hard drive, requiring only a place to save one's game(s). It's worth noting, too, that many of the Xbox Live games are also compatible with memory cards and don't require the hard drive.
  
  When the 360 first came out with its two versions, I was like many who considered the non-HD version to be "lame." Since then, considering the price reduction and the improvement of the package (wireless controller instead of wired, and memory card included), and considering the hard drive doesn't impart a significant gaming speed increase (unless one installs to hard drive; is that feature out yet?), I've come to the conclusion that the 360 Arcade version can make good economic sense to someone who wants to play the "big" games on a budget. Heck, even going to high definition with the Arcade version through purchase of component or HDMI cables leaves the 360 Arcade cheaper than the Wii.
4. Re:Upgrading basic version? by pavon · 2008-09-03 14:07 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  I was wondering the same thing so I did some looking around. It is easy to find used drives (especially 20GB) - look on ebay, amazon, your local game shop, etc.
  If you want a larger drive, you can hack one in. I don't think anyone has had luck getting any SATA drive to work, but you can buy the exact same model that MS uses and flash the firmware to make it compatible. Then you can either swap out the case with another 360 hdd, or solder up a cable to use the drive internally.
5. Re:Upgrading basic version? by ragethehotey · 2008-09-03 20:45 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  Burnout Paradise City also requires it.
Why all the speculation? by DakkonFury · 2008-09-03 13:46 · Score: 1

This price drop seems to be a pretty standard procedure as a system gets older. The 360 was on the market considerably earlier than it's competitors. I use the term loosely in the case of the Wii as, stated earlier, it caters to a different audience. Kudos to MS for putting pressure once again on Sony before the holiday season. Nintendo gets to sit back and laugh at the both of them, but again, different audience, different focus.
PS3 Cut? by dosentmattermuch_ · 2008-09-03 17:01 · Score: 1

Does everyone expect a PS3 cut to follow suit? Or no?
Is the 120GB Hard drive cheaper? by bogie · 2008-09-03 17:09 · Score: 1

Paying $179 for the 120GB drive seems funny if the Xbox itself is only $199.
Btw Wii was a $99-$149 product from the start. Time to lower the cost Nintendo.

--
If you wanna get rich, you know that payback is a bitch
1. Re:Is the 120GB Hard drive cheaper? by DirtyHarry · 2008-09-03 21:08 · Score: 1
  
  The 120 GB drive will come down to $149. Additionally, the 60GB drive will retail with some extras (ethernet cable, 3 months Xbox live) for $99.
  Still, these prices are a pain.
  
  --
  Always run = ON
2. Re:Is the 120GB Hard drive cheaper? by bilbravo · 2008-09-04 02:14 · Score: 1
  
  Coming down to $149 is still ridiculous.
  
  --
  Starmen.net
3. Re:Is the 120GB Hard drive cheaper? by DirtyHarry · 2008-09-04 03:33 · Score: 1
  
  As I said...
  
  --
  Always run = ON
Microsoft desperately cuts Xbox 360 price by David+Gerard · 2008-09-03 23:30 · Score: 1

Microsoft Japan is already actually paying people to take the machines, with little success. "We hope more people will be able to enjoy Xbox 360," said marketing marketer Takashi Sensui, "and we can stop enjoying quite so many of them. We also have this fine pile of HD-DVD drives ... Wait! Come back!"

--
http://rocknerd.co.uk
So all this proves is by phorm · 2008-09-04 01:23 · Score: 1

That use varies by individual.
I have a 360 (no Wii yet) and for a long period I simply didn't have any time for playing it. I had a few moments to relax recently, so I played a bit and managed to collect some cars on Burnout and pass the first disc on "Lost Odyssey"
Aside from that though, I noticed that my TV shelf had been getting cluttered with the consoles, VCR, and two DVD players (one for normal DVD's and that has the surround head, the other plays DivX). I moved the DivX play out of the room and setup the 360 as a media unit, so now it's got a whole lot more usefulness besides being a game console.
Or buy a PS3 for $249 w/ 12 months no I from Sony! by Anonymous Coward · 2008-09-04 02:16 · Score: 0

Or buy a PS3 for $249 with 12 months no interest:
http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&categoryId=8198552921644487282&langId=-1
One PC per player by tepples · 2008-09-04 03:16 · Score: 1

Don't you think a PC is a better system for shooters?
Only if you own four PCs: one for you and three for guests.
1. Re:One PC per player by Anonymous Coward · 2008-09-04 06:35 · Score: 0
  
  Only if you own four PCs: one for you and three for guests.
  Huh? How do you play four-player FPS on one XBox then? And sharing a screen really takes the mystery out of where everyone else is.
2. Re:One PC per player by tepples · 2008-09-04 07:34 · Score: 1
  
  And sharing a screen really takes the mystery out of where everyone else is.
  In GoldenEye 007 for Nintendo 64, screen-peeking was part of the strategy. Besides, not all shooters are first-person.
3. Re:One PC per player by ravenshrike · 2008-09-04 11:03 · Score: 1
  
  Crowbar's point was that he played single screen multiplayer FPS's on the 360. Thus one runs into the question anyway.
Remember the NES by nobodyman · 2008-09-04 03:58 · Score: 1

Back during the NES days, Nintendo's (mis)treatment of publishers was legendary. Things improved once competition came on the scene, but don't fool yourself into thinking that Nintendo is a "nice" company. They are just as cutthroat as Microsoft.
1. Re:Remember the NES by Jorophose · 2008-09-04 10:31 · Score: 1
  
  The only "evil" thing in the NES era was that Nintendo did everything, and you were allowed like 3 games a year.
  That's not mistreatment. It's good business policy. ALL the games on NES/SNES were good.
  I can't say the same about the playstations or xbawxen.
Disc Read Errors by RomanesEuntDomus · 2008-09-04 08:10 · Score: 1

I have a 360, PS3 and a Wii. I play all of them, not equally, but according to which game I want to play at the time.
Between my 360 and PS3, I play on the PS3 almost exclusively. Why? Because the 360 quite often gives me a DRE (Disc Read Error) that stops the game dead with no retry. The only thing you can do is go back to the dashboard and start the game again. I still buy the occasional 360 game, but when presented with a choice of PS3 or 360 if the game is for both, I have to buy the PS3 version.
I have had no troubles with the PS3. And it's a really really good DVD upscaler. Blue Ray movies look very nice, but damned if I ever pay the extra cost for them.