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Is the US Ready For the Switch To DTV?
tonsofpcs writes "On Monday, September 8, Wilmington, NC will be the first television market (#135) to make the switch to DTV by shutting off their analog transmitters. This forum will be posting updates throughout the coming months to keep everyone updated on how the transition works so that we are all prepared come February 17, 2009. So far, it seems Wilmington will still be going ahead as planned, despite Tropical Storm Hanna's proximity."
Something tells me that after several delays and numerous announcements that the people that are unaware of the switch to digital TV probably wouldn't be too upset about missing out on TV for a few days while they track down an analog->digital converter.
I'm a big tall mofo.
Mandatory TV Conversion Creates Complications For Prisons
This is going to happen in February, why on earth should a tropical storm delay it if it's still September? For that matter, why would it be delayed at all? Is there something mystical and magical about tropical storms that we don't know here?
The use of TV as a warning mechanism for evacuations / seeking shelter. If you turn that off fro those still on analog you've added to the complexity of an evacuation.
I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
Monday, September 8, Wilmington, NC will be the first television market (#135) to make the switch to DTV by shutting off their analog transmitters.
At least read the WHOLE summary.
I think someone was trying to be witty in a headline. It does appear to rank pretty high in the FAIL department.
Is there something mystical and magical about tropical storms that we don't know here?
Yes. It adds drama! Just image some bold brave techs driving through the rain and wind in order to get DTV to the people!
Read with one of those voice actors saying this in your head.
The struggle. The bravery. The challenges!
Men and women fighting so that their neighbours can stay informed! Keeping them from being cut off from the rest of the World all the while batting Nature's worst! With the bonds that form between people who have gone through hell together!
Mat Damon is .... THE DIGITAL TECH!
I don't understand your grammar. Are you referring to the issue of analog migration for cable television?
[Where certain cable TV providers slowly move the analog channels to digital on their system, thus requiring a "box" if they want to view those "upper" channels.]
I doubt most people are even going to notice the switch over to digital. Between cable and satellite providers relatively few are going to see the need for a digital-analog converter. On another note... Wilmington just wanted to put a simple "We did it first so we're 'technologically advanced'" stamp on a tourist brochure. Whatever and good luck to 'em (I guess).
"The best way to accelerate a Macintosh is at 9.8m/sec^2" -Marcus Dolengo
If you're getting a TV signal, you're going to get the EBS signal.
If you're getting a radio signal, you're going to get the EBS signal.
-regardless if it's digital or analog.
if you steal from one source, that is plagiarism, if you steal from many, well, that's just research.
It has nothing to do with being a troll... you simply have no basis for that assumption. Bigotry at it's best.
Imagine this...
A storm comes in. And storms can happen in a variety of areas.
Storm knocks out cable lines. Maybe a tree falls on it.
Residents wish to remain informed.
So they either hook up an antenna to their TV, or pull out a small one, to watch an over-the-air broadcast of their local news.
Why is this rated Insightful? It's a question that is explained within TFS/A.
Or is it just that any inquiry posed has an inherent element of insightfulness?
Between cable and satellite providers relatively few are going to see the need for a digital-analog converter.
There are some channels that one can get on digital broadcast but not on analog cable, such as the PBS subchannels. The ATSC tuner box also costs much less ($20 after coupon) than the first three years of the upgrade from analog cable to digital cable ($359.64) or the upgrade from satellite TV without local networks to satellite TV with local networks.
Actually, DBS services (like DirecTV) are only offering local channel service to some of the 210 markets, despite promising that they would have all 210 covered by year end. Some markets will require customers to have two dishes pointed different directions (one for local channels, one for the rest); other markets require just a newer box; others are available with the base setup; and that's just for the ones that are "available via DBS", the ones that aren't 'ready' will need an antenna for local channels and a converter box.
As for cable, cable companies will have to convert any received signals (be it by antenna, satellite receiver, or direct link with the programming source) to match their system. Currently, many cable companies are converting digital SD broadcasts to analog. Remember, cable companies have contracts (franchise agreements) with the towns that they offer service in that tend to have many more requirements than DBS, along with requirements from federal regulations.
Video Production Support
That's one way to look at it. The other is "we're biting the bullet first. Let's hope nothing bad happens.".
Shai Schticks:"You don't make peace with friends, you make peace with enemies"
Phew, on behalf of all Slashdot readers who were fraught with worry over how this would effect you, thanks for letting us know we can sleep easy.
Boffoonery - downloadable Comedy Benefit for Bletchley Park
According to the LA Times, the conversion might be postponed due to the storm.
>>>This is going to happen in February, why on earth should a tropical storm delay it if it's still September?
Ya know, it helps to RTFA (read the frakkin' article). In the very first sentence, it states that Wilmington NC (which was hit by the TS Hanna), will be going 100% digital on Monday (i.e. tomorrow). No more analog.
So you see, the transition for Wilmington is NOt February. It's September 8.
The government is not your daddy. Its purpose is not to raid middle-class neighbors' wallets and give it to you.
I wonder how many people who only watch broadcast TV casually now will put off buying the box, and realize they really don't even miss TV?
Is this a news report or a trailer for a motion picture?
How hard would it be to broadcast on all common channels in the area a fixed pattern that says something along the lines of, "TV broadcasts using your current equipment are no longer available. Please conatct... blah blah blah".
Seems that would be better than just turning it off. Maybe just run it for a week or so.
I'm a big tall mofo.
Yup comcast has been airing blatent lies about the DTV switch... "we got you covered" yup they are switching to all Digital across the nation next year forcing everyone to have a converter box (that you have to rent from them at $5.00 a month) and it will make all those pesky PVR's out there stop working unless they take over that digital box or get another digital box for the PVR at another $5.00 a month)
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
I am 42, had a computer since '77 but never had cable. My parents are in their 80s and never had cable.
I can't believe anyone would pay $500 or $1000 a year to watch television. Put it another way, cut the Pay TV bill and in twenty years you get a free car!
Mom and dad bought a digital decoder box but it's a huge pain with yet another remote control and umpteen volume controls that all fight each other. What a pointless disaster.
WARNING - WARNING - WARNING - A tropical storm - shhhhhhhhhhhht - To view this warning announcement, please purchase a digital TV in your local retail store.
Thank you.
As people age, our hearing and eyesight deteriorate. All this High Def stuff will look EXACTLY like analog to us.
Which is why a lot of ATSC broadcasters can choose to broadcast four subchannels: one in 1080i for the younger set and three others in 480i, including programs targeted to older people.
If you're getting a TV signal, you're going to get the EBS signal.
If you're getting a radio signal, you're going to get the EBS signal.
-regardless if it's digital or analog.
Couple of things - TV is used for more than just EBS; for exmaple warning scrolls across regular programing.
So once analog goes off air those with analog only TVs pulling in a signal from local broadcast lose that information source. To your point - they are no longer getting a signal.
Even if EBS is still transmitting an analog signal (will it?) many people will probably have their TV off since tehy aren't getting programming and not get a warning at all.
As fro radio, it'd be nice if everyone had a working radio and maybe even a weather alert radio; but they are a less effective means of providing updates and warnings since they have to stop broadcasting to send updates; unlike a continuous scroll.
I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
I just tell people:
"If you have cable, dish, or FiOS television, then you need not worry about the over-the-air transition. It does not affect you."
The government is not your daddy. Its purpose is not to raid middle-class neighbors' wallets and give it to you.
People still watch TV? why? use the internets.
I cant you're clogging up the tubes.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Numerous stories mention that prisons are not ready for digital television, and prison administrators are worried.
Generally, inmates pay for their own television sets and (for some reason that escapes me) are not eligible for the $40 coupons.
Prison administrators say"the tube does more than fill year after year of idle hours. It provides a sense of normalcy and is a bargaining chip that encourages good behavior... At Indiana's Wabash Valley super-maximum security prison [a psychiatrist said], far fewer behavior problems were reported among inmates in isolation after they were given small TVs. 'You don't want to be managing prisoners who have nothing to lose,' Kupers."
I expect the test will show that, in fact, prison inmates represent only one example of what will prove to be a large population of forgotten Americans... the people who don't answer telephone surveys because they don't have telephones, the people who don't shop at Best Buy because they don't have cars and the nearest Best Buy can't be reached by public transportation, etc.
I will grant that the amount of publicity being given to the DTV switchover on our local TV stations is so large... at least during the times of day we watch and on the channels we watch... that it's hard to imagine people not knowing about it, but there is always that twenty percent of the population who can't name the President.
Indeed, I'm astonished at the poster who asks "Will they broadcast a notice?" since our local stations have been doing that continuously since February. Either his are not or he, like those twenty per cent I'm talking about, didn't notice.
"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!
Pffft. I'm hardly poor, and I've never had cable. For the few hours of TV I watch per month (mostly news broadcasts), it's hardly worth it to pay for the privilege. Yeah, I'm tight. One woman who used to work with me after hearing about something like that once said, "You must really be Scottish." Yeah, I probably resemble that remark too.
House in foreclosure CHECK Credit Cards past due CHECK Car Repossessed CHECK TV ready for Digital....not a priority
They have to have an unencrypted QAM Teir by law. I have Comcast, and There are 39 availible unencrypted QAM channels. (Only 14 are unique.)
The average age of TV viewers was recently reported as 55 years old. That means the average television audience is 10 years older than the demographic that advertisers pay top dollar to reach, 18-45. That higher average age also means that most of those watching are the least likely to be paying attention to esoteric issues like format changes. Many of them will be quite upset when their TV stops working, especially with a 30% increase in the price of groceries and $4/gallon gas happening at the same time.
So the TV industry heads are going to alienate a significant chunk of the last group of people who still tune in to their programs.
Aging demos, TiVo, writer's strikes, death of the upfront season, competition from other media, and ill-timed format changes are all going to bring the television industry down.
Do what you can, with what you have, where you are.
My provider, Cox is already sending out flyers telling people that if they just leave the sets connected to cable they don't have to buy converters or DTV sets.
I have no motivation to move fast on the DTV transition since I don't watch much television in the first place. Or at least not broadcast or what comes over the cable.
I only get a net connection from the cable company, not a video feed. And all the computers in the house are at least 720p so I'm not worried.
It occurs to me that if there are "forgotten" segments of the population (e.g. prisoners) who've escaped official notice in the preparation for the switch, and haven't been reached by the numerous public announcements, or can't or don't know how to prepare for it... ...how is the FCC going to find out whether they've been affected?
The same factors that have caused them to be overlooked before the test may cause them to be overlooked in evaluating the results of the test.
The people who have a phone and know how to call the FCC are the same people who won't need to--because they heard the announcements, got their coupons, and bought their boxes at Wal*Mart.
"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!
It is not called trolling; it is called elitism. ... and it is wrong. Your "demographic" probably leaves out the majority of those affected, those who shop at Walmart and purchased Chinese-made NTSC sets. Walmart got slapped a few times in the recent past for selling non-DTV capable sets - we're talking months ago.
See? It's possible to introduce a demographic you're not a part of, without a snide twist of the knife. All seriousness aside, there's plenty of bad stereotypes that could be made with the Walmart crowd (meth and prescription addiction anyone?). (I suppose even acknowledging the possibility of this counter stereotype is the same as saying it, but I'm trying to draw a distinction).
Good luck with your views
My experience with digital TV in the UK is going from analogue at 4.5 channels (5 was not available in about half the places I went) to digital with far too many to count. The signal strength, picture and sound quality went through the roof with the transition too. Plus, no messing around with tuning at all, it just pulls channels, names and schedules out of the ether.
If your experience is typical, the FCC has managed a frak-up of truly epic proportions.
Of course, with all the new channels there's still nothing on worth watching, but that's a problem with the culture, not the technology.
All intents and purposes. Not intensive purposes.
People still watch TV? why? use the internets.
I dont like having to sit infront of my computer to watch TV shows I can watch comfortably from my couch infront of my 40" TV. I prefer having a TV then having to deal with crappy encoded streams on the internet and the buffering that is common with such things. I get no buffering with my cable box and my TV.
This big push for DTV in the USA, is nothing more than a money grab. I'm on cable, so the switch isn't going to impact me one bit. I'm all for big business, but this one stinks. A. TV manufacturers, who will sell thousands B. Some businesses who want that bank of frequencies such as wireless phone companies. C. The federal government, who will rake in the $$$ when they sell off the old analog(e) frequencies.
Well for one, it would be nice to see those red boxes when the weather man goes "there is a tornado warning for the communities within blah blah blah..."
EBS isn't worth a shit. All it does is replay a canned warning message with the counties under the warning, and at the end of the message it says tune to your local channels for more information...
What irritates me about the switch (which I still see as completely without merit - unless you are a telecommunications company or a DTV manufacturer), is the fact that they keep saying "If you have cable or satellite, you need not to worry about the conversion. Only people who uses traditional off-the-air television have to make the switch". Even worse is when your local cable company advertises that to avoid the switch just get cable...
Problem being that when the cable goes out (and it does during a hurricane) you are screwed and must resort to listening to the weatherman on the radio who continues to say "if you look in this area of the screen..."
These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
Even if EBS is still transmitting an analog signal (will it?) many people will probably have their TV off since tehy aren't getting programming and not get a warning at all.
EAS will still be analog as most stations receive it from radio stations. EAS is relayed by the TV station though, which will not be broadcasting analog, so there will be no way to receive it on an analog set (unless a local LPTV station is still operating in analog, as they are exempt from the changeover for now).
As fro radio, it'd be nice if everyone had a working radio and maybe even a weather alert radio; but they are a less effective means of providing updates and warnings since they have to stop broadcasting to send updates; unlike a continuous scroll.
EAS requires an audio interruption of programming, both on TV and radio. Crawls without audio do not meet EAS requirements. Some stations will continue crawls of information that is not required to be relayed via EAS, but this is as a service to the public (and in order to tell the FCC "hey, we meet our public service requirements" next time the license is up for renewal).
Video Production Support
I have RCN for my cable TV provider. I had 1 cable box and received cable on my other 2 TVs directly with the cable (no set-top box).
Recently I received a mailing from RCN showcasing their new channel lineup and mentioning one line "We're Going Digital."
The next day my two TV's without the set-top box stopped working.
I was kind of annoyed, but upon calling them, I found out they'd be stationed around the area giving out set-top boxes to their customers.
Plus, they gave me a free hat.
Basically, it's up to the cable service provider. The DTV transition is about over-the-air broadcasts, but that doesn't mean your cable company will continue providing analog channels.
While I can't speak to your situation, overall, I have found over-the-air DTV to be a vast improvement over analog. This is in the San Jose area. The existing analog broadcasts are hopeless due to massive multipath problems (same with FM radio). DTV, including HD, is pretty bulletproof. You have to turn the antenna for a few stations but that's no different than what was going on with analog. Once you get it, it's perfect.
In your particular case, it doesn't seem to work very well, but I don't think that has a lot to do with digital vs. analog per se. Your local stations have had 60 years to get the analog stuff right, and 6 months to get digital right.
Brett
I've been wondering if that would violate their franchise agreement?* Also I wonder if cable has to carry the subchannels along with the main channel?
*You know? The local channels they presently have to carry.
Shai Schticks:"You don't make peace with friends, you make peace with enemies"
If ready means that everyone has at least one digital receiver (built-in or external) then no. People tend to delay non essential purchases these days, and a digital receiver won't be essential until the analog shutdown actually takes place.
So just do it already, people will run to get get the decoders the next day.
Unless of course when your service goes out. You should ALWAYS have a way to receive over-the-air signals. This way when the cable, FIOS, or whatever is your favorite way to pay for programming goes offline (and it does during a hurricane, flood, and severe thunderstorms) you are still able to receive important information.
Nothing sucks like having your generator running and not having a clue because you depended on cable to look after you...
Besides all you are doing is encouraging "lock-in". The cable companies would love to be the sole provider of broadcast content.
Stop giving that shitty advice, and tell your friends to get a converter box while they can still get a discount on them.
These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
Generally, inmates pay for their own television sets and (for some reason that escapes me) are not eligible for the $40 coupons.
No pun intended? :P
Doesn't matter what hi-def looks like to anyone using a converter box on an analog TV, of course, since they'll be watching it in standard def.
If you live near the coast, you have a weather radio. If you live in tornado alley, you have a weather radio. Most of them that have been made in the past 10 years or so have the EAS alert alarm.
If you don't, well, then maybe Darwin was on to something.
Yes, and after getting far too high a ratio of real to bogus warnings (even with localization); your first reaction is to turn on the TV and then go up to the radio and turn off the warning beep.
I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I'm as big a tightwad as the next guy, but I still pay for cable. Why? Well, because it seems my broadband connection is discounted enough to pay for the basic cable service, with a quarter a month left over. If I drop cable TV and take only the cable modem connection alone, it will actually cost me a little more per month.
That, and the local broadcast stations are pretty much useless other than the news and prime time. Effing 30- ad 60-minute commercials for colon cleansers and Ginsu knives. On those rare occasions I want to veg out in front of the TV, it's nice to have Discovery, History and a couple of decent non-pay movie channels (AMC, TBS).
How does your cable company get broadcast stations? Many get local channels with an array of antennas, and this will likely increase with DTV broadcasts as they can guarantee a bitstream a lot easier (and with a lot fewer techs/engineer) than they can guarantee picture.
Video Production Support
Got that... It's the cutting edge of technology. I call it a "radio".
htf they would miss the incessant PSAs for it every single commercial break is beyond me. If they're not ready for it, then they don't need to be watching tv as the PSAs have been so insidious as well as the full screen banners about it.
-Kinsey
Cable operators are not required to have an "unencrypted QAM Teir". They transmit OTA digital channels unencrypted, but that's it.
One problem I have with the switch to DTV is that there are a plethora of disaster radios out there that have analog TV coverage. In an emergency, I can scan AM, FM, and TV stations for what's going on. That gives me a lot of good options. Now my hand-cranked emergency radio has a band that can no longer be used: analog TV. That's a bummer in my book.
...those who shop at Walmart and purchased Chinese-made NTSC sets.
Chinese? That's so 90s. Mine's Korean.
The FCC has been preping this small town for the last 6 months with daily advertisements in the paper, radio ads, etc. There has been so much attention paid, that if things don't go well, there isn't a chance in hell the rest of the nation will go well. Even if it does go well, chances are that things will still be out of whack for the nation. This is just a little stunt for the current FCC to show that they will do right before they leave office (notice that they will be leaving this problem for the new FCC just as they take office, with no time to make any changes to the plan).
I'm not hopeful on this one. The last Neison survey showed that 60% of those people who only had OTA service were not aware that their equipment might not work after the transition. This is a problem. Most of these people who were surveyed are probably not tech savvy enough, or they just don't watch the advertisements letting them know. Not everybody can just get up and go to Best Buy and have their sales people tell them what is going on (uh, and incorrectly, I might add. Yes, the only way you can watch TV in the future is if you get this $1,000 tv!).
I guess the poor think it's more important to invest their $700 a year on FOOD.
Sadly, I think the opposite is often the case: many "poor" families think it's more important to spend their $700 on television - that's why they're poor. There are many people who live in poverty and/or receive public assistance that could easily afford everything they NEED if they didn't blow their money on things could live WITHOUT (TV, beer, cigarettes, eating out, drinks at the bar, $50+ pairs of jeans, home and auto A/V systems, etc).
Well thanks for that bit of advice. Now, would you please come over here and move my house out of this valley? With rabbit ears I can sort-of see one channel, on clear days. With a bigass antenna on the roof, I might be able to get 2 fuzzy stations. Really, there are a fair number of people for whom this changeover won't make a god damn lick of difference.
It would be great to be able to get OTA signals - unfortunately for a fair number of us it isn't a possibility. And, of course, for those of us without generators it doesn't matter either.
Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
The use of TV as a warning mechanism for evacuations / seeking shelter. If you turn that off fro those still on analog you've added to the complexity of an evacuation.
Well, let's see- they're switching off the analogue signal tomorrow, just before the storm's due to hit the area.
:)
Joe Sixpack turns on his TV, sees he's getting no signal and figures that a storm's blown down his antenna- then gets the hell out of the place. Bingo, everyone's safe!
"Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
Besides... Around here there are only about five different channels to be found using an analog antenna.
"He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing." --Paul Atreides, Dune
during hurricanes as we are so prone to getting, we rely on our portable televisions to watch information about the storm when we lose power. Those portable televisions are going to be useless. As a matter of public safety, we need portable televisions that can receive the digital broadcast, but so far, none have reached the market.
What will I do to protect my family if I have no way of getting public safety information? Radio is one way, but it doesn't convey the same level of information as does television.
what will we do?
They're using their grammar skills there.
tv? what's tv? what do you use it for?
I can't remember the last time a storm knocked-out cable in my area. We live in a civilized area of the U.S. where the cable is buried underground & away from the elements. There's really no need to have a backup antenna-based television, because the cable never fails.
In fact, my brother doesn't even own an antenna!
He couldn't watch over-the-air even if he wanted to.
The government is not your daddy. Its purpose is not to raid middle-class neighbors' wallets and give it to you.
I once worked at a large development with 25 + apartment buildings. I was the guy who answered the phone for the repairs, clogged toilets, etc. One day, the CATV system serving the entire complex went out. Now, it was a Tuesday afternoon, but you'd be amazed. It was the single highest call volume we ever got. Worse was the amount of "re-calls" and plaintive complaints. There's a lot of folks out there who can't function unless they are lashed to the fantasy teat, and they were not all elderly or shut-in. There will be a rash of "grandma can't get her stories" news articles, but in the end, this will be a boon to the Content Industry, for whom HDCP will now be part of the equipment. It buys their business model ten years.
I think many people, for one reason or another, will be unable to make the switch. All these people will suddenly regain consciousness from daily propaganda feeds from Fox News and mind-numbing foolishness from corporate America. Yes, it is almost as if people are being set free because the hypnotist that had them enthralled no longer speaks their language. Indeed, I am looking forward to the day where televisions all over the country stop working.
I live in a valley...
next to an HD-only transmitter.
Needless to say, analog *anything* has been an issue. Last spring, sensing there may a be rush later, I got our two coupons from Uncle Sam, and cashed 'em in. A few points on my experience:
o Direction and gain are definitely more of an issue. Since we barely got anything analog clearly on bunny ear/loop, we got next to nothing with digital.
o With digital, it's all or nothing. Either you have clear signal, maybe with some artifacts, or you have black screen.
o *The* most annoying thing is that sounds cuts first.
o So, I did what any self-respecting tinkerer would do. I build a grey-hoverman antenna out of foam board, packing tape, tin foil, and picture hanging wire - all from from Walgreens (U.S. pharmacy) :-D. http://www.digitalhome.ca/ota/superantenna/
o Obviously, with such rarefied materials I have a less-than-precise design - that works... really well.
o The GH antenna is highly directional. Since digital is crystal-clear, we put up with adjusting the thing in the bay window.
o We get 9-12 clear channels now, instead of 4-5 distorted ones.
o It's best to put it in an attic, or outside. Be sure to ground it, etc. The higher, the better - generally.
o Note that there are two ranges for VHF DTV, high channels and low channels. The Grey-Hoverman seems to do well with UHF DTV and high VHF. Most DTV seems to be UHF.
o Only some DTV is HD. Stations were given sub-channels. Some use only the main channel and switch back and forth between HD. Others put SD on one and HD on the other. Others use all for HD, with different content. The public television stations, strangely enough, seem to be making the best use of the sub-channels.
o The other prominent build-able design is called a Yagi. It consists of connected bow-ties, rather than zig-zag elements. The Yagi design is nice, because its gain is roughly even across UHF. The Grey-Hoverman seems to have better gain than the Yagi on some ranges, but cuts out in others. Check the frequencies of your local stations and compare them to the two antennas' gain charts before deciding.
o Why the range of channels for me? Well, in a valley the signal has echoes. Some echoes are stronger than others. Sometimes the amp makes the two echoes the same strength. In that case the converter box cannot lock in. Thus, if your location is subject to echoes (hills, valley, etc.), design your wiring to allow the easy removal of your amplifier.
o Also, atmospheric conditions seem to have an effect. On clear dry days we don't do so well; on wet or humid days, I think we could get New York City, if we wanted (we're in southern N.E.).
o Finally, going digital with a converter has one interesting benefit for you OSS fans. Since the Neuros OSD is still SD, converted DTV works nicely with it. I don't have one yet, but they are now on Amazon, and I am strongly considering getting one.
Computer Science is all about trying to find the right wrench to bang in the right screw. -T.Cumbo?
But if those Walmart shoppers have cable or satellite, they should be OK past the cutoff. I'll be keeping my analog TV for years to come - it's connected to a satellite box that's capable of downsampling HD to standard def and my family doesn't watch television enough to justify a flat panel.
That's sort of true. You're correct that the over-the-air transition is only about over-the-air broadcasts, but cable providers may take this as an opportunity to make the switch too.
My cable service provider recently switched to all digital, requiring all my TVs to have a set-top box (I only had one set-top box prior).
Best Buy also got slapped for that reason. And, nearly all TV sets are made outside the country, mostly in China, regardless of where they're sold. Speaking of stereotypes....
However, the large majority of people won't be affected because they get their TV through cable or satellite. This only applies to over-the-air broadcasts. It's unlikely that "inner-city welfare-check-receiving families" will be affected because most of such people have cable TV.
I have my TV connected as a second monitor. A 40" 1360x768 Viewsonic that might even be the exact same model you have. I don't read Slashdot when "it's on" 18:30 to 19:00 Wednesdays; I don't see why I should watch TV except whenever it suits me.
I live in Finland which switched off analog TV this spring. I never bought a "digi-box". Nothing I watch is broadcast here anyway. I use torrents for everything now. I'm just waiting for those stone age broadcasting corporations to give me streaming video (or a p2p download that starts automatically when an episode is aired) that equals the quality of what a 12-year old with a Bittorrent client can provide. The Pirate Bay is not the epitome of convenience and I'm willing to pay for both quality and convenience.
The hurricane doesn't really affect anything in that market. In particular, the designated Emergency Alert System station for that market is the local PBS affiliate, and they are not shutting down their analog transmitter early for that exact reason.
Not to sound overly cynical about the whole issue, but I do some contract work for a big box retailer. Folks come in all the time seeking the $50 digital to analog converter boxes. Yet the individual stores typically only receive about a eight units a week and sell out within a few hours! Add to that, the overly complicated process of requesting $40 coupon/rebate certificates to defray most of the cost. Then let's not forget that the typical person seeking these boxes does not read Slashdot, is on a fixed income, and uses 'DTV' and 'HDTV' interchangeably, not really understanding the definition of either. So why such little supply for such high demand? Why the bureaucracy? Why the readily confused acronyms? Because the push to DTV allows corporate interests to make use of the prime spectrum currently allocated for analog broadcasts while the retailers get taxpayer funded advertising that essentially tells a gullible public that the path of least resistance is to go out and buy a new LCD or plasma television - The stores just happen to have plenty of them, and gee aren't they pretty! As far as corporate/government corruption is concerned, this is small potatoes compared to many examples seen here on pollution, war profiteering, and eroding civil liberties. However, the callousness I've observed in the push to sell you a bigscreen television--err I mean a converter box, if you really insist; is really going to hit hard in Middle America. I'm wondering if while mobs of social rights activists and anti-war protesters have had minimal effects on Washington, what will happen when a few million pensioners find themselves without access to television?
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I call "bullshit" on that.
The spectrum "giveaway" you speak of was actually an unfunded mandate. The broadcasters were forced to operate dual, redundant facilities for a few years and on 2/17, the "extra" spectrum is going to be summarily taken away from them.
In the meantime, the top 100 MHz of the UHF TV spectrum is being removed from TV service was auctioned off to the wireless industry for billions and billions of dollars.
How, exactly, did Hollywood benefit from that?
EBS isn't worth a shit. All it does is replay a canned warning message with the counties under the warning, and at the end of the message it says tune to your local channels for more information...
Strange, in NY State it tells the speed of the storm, the towns it is projected to pass through and the estimated time of arrival for each town.
Granted, where I live towns are huge, so it may say my town is in the path, but I won't even see it from my house.
Star Trek, there maybe hope.
So...the Scottish are tight? Good to know!
The designated Emergency Alert System station for that market is leaving their analog transmitter on.
Ever hear of the working poor? Those that have jobs that pay just enough to not get welfare, but not enough to improve their situation? It can take many many years of hard work to get out of that situation no matter how much you save. Guess what, that $700 you saved...your only car died and you have to now spend it to fix your 300K mile car so you don't get fired. Don't just assume "poor" families blow their money.
I know you may not have meant your comment in that way, but it's worded quite nicely to appear so.
My TV is a 1920x1080 full 1080P HDTV. I also like my content right away instead of having it downloading, and by the time its ready to watch its time for bed. I have a fast cable connection, so don't say my internet sucks. Because it doesn't. Id rather use my bandwidth for gaming, and other things.
I don't have broadband but my parents do, and it only costs $15 a month. Probably cheaper than your cable-based plan. Now if I could get internet for $15 and cable-tv added for free, then I'd jump for it.
>>>"it's nice to have Discovery, History and a couple of decent non-pay movie channels"
(shrug). I can live without them. None of those shows are worth paying $60 a month. I'd rather watch last night's primetime off my DVR, or videos off bittorrent. Both are free. (Or for $2, rent a movie.)
The government is not your daddy. Its purpose is not to raid middle-class neighbors' wallets and give it to you.
Any Slashdotter could do this
1. Get Digital receivers to decode only the channels you want them to watch.
2. Hook up the outputs to some UHF modulators.
3. Output the signals to your existing Television cabels.
4. Re-tune the TV's
Could be done for a few hundred dollars at most.
Some TVs may not be able to (or make sense to) have hooked up to a converter box. I wonder how many portable/pocket TVs exist in the U.S.?
Blog posting of someone realizing his portable TV will done away with.
There are a lot of great online resources to help with the transition. tvfool.com is great resource for understanding where you are in relation to local broadcast towers.
I blog about the transition in my free time (shameless plug - DTV Transition.
I certainly wasn't generalizing about the poor - my point was that some people aren't really poor, they just make bad spending decisions that put them in the same boat the the poor (unable to afford the essentials). That's why I put the word "poor" in quotes.
TV is done. It's going to die faster than radio, because I can listen to radio in my car.
You haven't got the faintest clue, have you? The majority of the population (in the US or in the UK where I live) still come home from work and slump in front of the TV. They don't want to choose a DVD or find something on youtube, they just want to flick through a few channels and settle on something comfortable and familiar while they wind down. Maybe later they'll do something else.
Yes, TV isn't as important and central as it was; but it'll still be broadcasting (profitably) to millions in 5, 10, 20 years.
Presumably a normal curve: the lights go out the 17th, Best Buy has a busy week selling converter boxes, the media have something to report on, and it'll all work out. With the frequency of TV commercials about the conversion now, the non-stupid should only blame their own laziness.
Visited a couple network booths during our recent state fair to ask them when they would go 16:9 like their competitor NBC and their local news. Got a cameraman doing duty handing out posters at one and it wasn't very encouraging. Standardizing on 720p by February "but for all our cameras!" Got a lecture on how much this stuff costs and I lost count of how many times he phrased something in the hypothetical. "If you watch 1080, yes, you will notice a difference." I made a point at each time to tell him that, yes, I _do_.
So if the stations aren't in a competitive rush to get everything up and standardized at a high level, I wonder whether the majority of the public are very interested either.
Yup, the TV really helps me out with keeping track of being about to be slammed... since I live in Florida, it only makes sense that I only get TV (via satellite) from NY or LA. Not even local emergency stuff...
Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos
us ain't ready. won't be. can't be. here's why: $. digital TVs cost over $200.USD. non-starter for the targeted demographic. another why: tech skills.my mother has Never Used the record button on her VCR. DVD? what's that? last why: there are just too many places in the Vast USA where there is NO ability to get affordable cable or satellite or both....and this audience is the one Still Watching Network TV. Main Stream Media and their TV affiliates will see double-digit-drops. does your ISP "cap" your activity? unanticipated FCC consequences.
So you pay between $4 and $8 for your cable monthly?
upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
What does a hurricane off the coast of New England (or farther, I haven't checked lately) have to do with turning off analog TV signals in North Carolina? Maybe Ike would be a little more relevant?
this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom. -- Lincoln, Gettysburg Address
I just recently canceled my cable because of the over-the-air HD signal. I can see the broadcast towers from my balcony (about 18 miles away), but I've never been able to get a good NTSC signal. At the time, that was reason enough to sign up for a cheap cable package. However, after installing an HD tuner card into my MythTV box earlier this year and seeing how good the over-the-air HD signal is, I couldn't find a good enough reason to keep paying for cable.
Good thing the switch is coming in February when there aren't generally any tropical storms or hurricanes in the U.S. You'll have some random snow or ice storms though but there could be weather problems any time the switch could be made.
I think that there is a tasteless joke about hurricanes and looting in here somewhere...
Most newer (since about 1970s) US home developments are set up with homeowner associations. They manage common areas (playgrounds, pools, etc.) and establish rules (including fines) to ensure all properties maintain a good appearance. Covenants which must be conveyed with the title ensure each homeowner is obligated to play along. In almost all communities, the rules prohibit visible antennas on the justification they are an eyesore.
Homeowner association rules were putting satellite TV providers at such a disadvantage (compared to cable providers) that congress passed a law (about 1990) forcing homeowner associations to permit the newer, smaller antennas (less than a meter across). Older satellite antennas (three meter diameter) and broadcast antennas are still fair game.
Us stubborn people who don't want to pay for cable or satellite get by with rabbit ears or (like me) are willing to self-install an attic antenna.
You'll notice a similar phenomenon with respect to the subsidy program for converter boxes. Had it been anything but TV, we would have been swamped with politicians handwringing about public money going to enable to poor to sit on their asses in greater comfort. Because it's TV(and because, formally speaking, the converter subsidies are supposed to be paid out of the proceeds of the spectrum sale, which will make a huge difference, in the magic land were addition isn't associative) even Slashdot's crack squad of libertarians hasn't said too much about it.
The whole topic begs the question of how important it is for people to have television in the first place. If a guy doesn't have TV for a month while he waits for a coupon a coupon, that wouldn't kill him. I think waiting until the transition actually happens to buy an ATSC tuner is a pretty sensible approach in the spectrum of possible reactions.
-Dave
"Because the push to DTV allows corporate interests to make use of the prime spectrum currently allocated for analog broadcasts while the retailers get taxpayer funded advertising that essentially tells a gullible public that the path of least resistance is to go out and buy a new LCD or plasma television - The stores just happen to have plenty of them, and gee aren't they pretty! "
Cynical much? Yes they are pretty and I got two because the analog passed it's first smoke test after years of service. The picture's much better for the same size screen. Lighter weight and slimmer profile making it easier to hang on the wall. AND it can be a computer monitor as well as TV freeing up a PCI slot. So overall the transition has been a win win. Sorry it didn't work out for you.
Shai Schticks:"You don't make peace with friends, you make peace with enemies"
I was helping a relative with their new flat digital TV. As far as I could tell for that Digital TV, the only choice was autoscan, and it was a come back in an hour type operation. With the indoor amplified antenna it was only one station I think. It would be much faster to go to antennaweb.org, and put in the few physical channel available in their area. But now 9.1 isn't on the frequency assigned to channel 9 it's on 39, so I assume to reduce that confusion they didn't get them a choice and only allowed autoscan.
At home on Linux and the pcHDTV card autoscan didn't take all that long, but antennaweb.org said I was missing one station. After looking up the frequency, and telling it to tune to that, it locked. Autoscan is nice, but it assumes whoever did it got it completely right. It is also doesn't take additional information, like I know there is a channel here, tune to it, and I'll move the antenna around to see if I can pick anything up.
Tuning was one part of the problem. The other part was they thought their old TV had a better picture, they didn't realize they were still on analog, or how to switch it to digital or how to start an autoscan. Clearly there is a need for some more education. That or they just needed to read the manual.
That was implemented badly. I applied for and received two converter box coupons. The expiration date (!) on the coupon was two months after the date that the boxes were to be made available to the public. It was too bad that none of the merchants in my area had any product available prior to the date of the expiration date of these coupons.
Sig this!
Wow, I haven't seen such a reactionary bunch in a long time. I don't know about in the US, but here in Australia, DVB-T looks a lot better than analogue. I'm in the fringes of a minor city and I get flawless digital reception, and my analogue is plagued with snow, ghosting, and extremely poor colour representation. And before anyone blames my TV, it's the same TV for both. Where I live, digital is undeniably better than analogue.
Enough about my experience, to all of you who are having trouble with DTV, wait. It will get better. If you've survived on analogue for this time, as soon as it's shut off, so too is a portion of their advertiser revenue. It's in their interests to make sure as many people as possible have access to TV, and when DTV is the only game in town, that's what they'll deliver.
You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
The FCC is allowing the stations to keep transmitting with a notice about the DTV transition. The FCC will also allow the stations to continue transmitting emergency and weather info on the analogs. However, the FCC is keeping the Feb 2009 deadline a hard deadline for a full shutdown of those analog transmitters. Does anyone on Slashdot read AVS Forum? You'd really think there would be more overlap.
I scream. You scream. I assume that means we're both acquainted with the problem. We proceed.
Oregon Public Television received a few million dollars last year from the Oregon taxpayers to convert translators to digital. So far they haven't converted a single one. Since there is no FCC mandate to convert them at this point I wonder how long they are going to stall. They certainly won't be getting any more subscription money from me until they get their act together.
True. The program that generates the warning text allows the warning coordinator to enter geographical names with eta in the end text prior to the advice such as stay away from windows..
Couple of problems (well for some):
1. Sometimes the geographical name is an obscure little subdivision name, that few people know about (Hell, sometimes is an old name for a hill).
2. Even if the geographical name is known:
a. People think visually and having it on a screen allows them to quickly determine if they are at risk.
b. People unfamiliar with the area (tourist, newly relocated people, etc), are pretty much screwed. I've been working in a new location away from my home town for at least three years, and I'm still stumped by some of their town names (and I usually don't have a map with me).
These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
Geez... they're already switching to digital TV?
I'm still trying to get my telegraph hooked up. Technology has me beat.
Congratulations. You live in an area with mild weather and blessed with reliable cable service.
Where I live (US Gulf Coast) my cable turns to crap quickly. Why? Well for one, I live in a very old city, that is heavily populated, and covers most of a county. It's much cheaper to use telephone poles for power and cable.
Also, comcast here in my neck of the woods don't seem to have battery backup in their distribution network. The power goes out in a section of town, so does the cable. I've had times where I had power but no cable.
Newer subdivisions do have buried utilities. Let me tell you a little secret... (Well at least here) Utility poles carry the power and signal wires until it reaches the subdivisions.
But I guess now that I know that you and and your brother have reliable cable, I can rest a little easier...
These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
O really? What is this thing called radio?
I remember back in the old days, people used to sit around a talking box and listen to music, news, and entertainment from a local live DJ.
Unfortunately, now a days most of these radio stations are owned by large media companies that automate most of their operations. Almost all of the radio stations in my area go to network feed after 6pm. The weird thing being that Television is almost exclusively network feed except for programming blocks allocated for local programming (usually syndicated shows), and yet they have actual human beings that man the news room. In fact, I heard rumors that they actually have people in the field reporting conditions and showing live video of the weather event.
But yes, there is radio. That trusty little talk box that allow us to hear music and talk radio. Hell I bet you some of the radio stations rebroadcast the television weather broadcasts during significant weather. Yea, just imagine sitting around an audio only device and listening to the weather man saying "As you can see on the right side of the screen..." and thinking to yourself man I wish I could look at what they were talking about. But no, I had to be the smart ass on slashdot who relied on the radio...
Or better yet, just imagine how nice it would be if you could look at the radar image being broadcasted on the TV and maybe even reading the scrolling text on the bottom. But your right, you can just wait for the next newsbreak or EBS on the radio.
Anyway, thank you dotfile, for reaquanting me with that old technology called radio. Now if only you can show me where the video comes out...
These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
Everything has its extremes and aberrations, and apparently you are one (at least in the context of television reception).
Fair amount? Really? Please...
Companies place broadcast towers where the people are. You just happen to be in a bad spot. But I'm sure when they chose the location for the tower, they picked a spot that allowed reception by *WAY* more people than just you.
I spent a good amount of time in the least populated area in New Mexico, and I can verify that the only OTA broadcast available was public radio. Cable or Satellite was a requirement for any sort of television viewing. However, my advice was aimed for the more densely populated areas where the majority of the people live.
I think you really meant to say that because you live in a location with poor reception, the changeover won't "make a god damn lick of difference" for you.
I am glad to hear that cable and satellite meet your entertainment needs, and that you won't be affected by the changeover.
These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
I see a lot of whining about the switch to digital from folks who claim to get fewer digital channels than analog.
Since anecdotes doth not evidence make, I would like to provide a link to an article where some folks actually analyzed what the real net impact of the transition is going to be to the average TV viewer.
The outcome? The peak of the gain/loss graph is at 14% of the U.S. population losing one channel. In other words, the majority of the population will break even or gain channels.
I wonder how many of those "suddenly without TV" people will just say, "fuck it" and do other things?
Tried it here in PDX with a DTV capture card. Most all the channels I expect are there and working nicely --and that's on a little goofy antenna.
Picture and sound were great. Too bad there is little on, and a TON of commercials.
Blogging because I can...
If you use television as a warning mechanism for evacuations / shelter-seeking, and the storm that is going to hit you is so close that it's blowing your signal out... you're a touch too late.
Most people in those situations use radio waves, since units are smaller and can be carried around, and battery powered.
Most times evacuations are broadcast by trucks going down your road anyway.
-- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
your first raaction is to turn on the tv?
wtf?
I don't know about you, but the last thing I ever did in my entire life is try to get up-to-date information from tv. It's a great place to see what happened yesterday...
I sooner get my info from the radio in such an occasion since the info is tossed out quickly and easily by voice without any problems, and life goes on. No need to worry about multi-sequenced data transmissions meshed together...
-- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
If you use television as a warning mechanism for evacuations / shelter-seeking, and the storm that is going to hit you is so close that it's blowing your signal out... you're a touch too late.
Most people in those situations use radio waves, since units are smaller and can be carried around, and battery powered.
Most times evacuations are broadcast by trucks going down your road anyway.
However, the lead up to evacuation and overall progress is much easier to track via TV.
As I pointed out, loss of analog eliminates that info source; an understandable reason for delaying a planned switch.
I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
your first raaction is to turn on the tv?
wtf?
I don't know about you, but the last thing I ever did in my entire life is try to get up-to-date information from tv. It's a great place to see what happened yesterday...
Yes. Whenever we have potentially severe weather we do - TV provides maps; scrolling alerts, etc in a manner that facilitates understanding of the threat and allows one to determine what to do; as well as follow progress. Radio has advantages but it provides nowhere near the information as does a visual display.
I sooner get my info from the radio in such an occasion since the info is tossed out quickly and easily by voice without any problems, and life goes on. No need to worry about multi-sequenced data transmissions meshed together...
Once the siren sounds then the radio is used. Batteries beat wall plug at that point; although the TV is still left on.
I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
You do know that flat panel does not equal dtv, right?
Or is that what Walmart told you?
Okay, in a nutshell so you understand... no matter what, if you use any other form of video reception than airwaves, you are good to go as long as the device offered for that service hooks up to the television without a problem.
If you want airwave transmitted video, an ATSC capable reciever (and antenna) is all that is necessary. This could be a television with an ATSC reciever built-in, or an DTV converter box sold starting at $40-50. If you are a frugal purchaser, dtv2009.gov offers $40 purchase coupons for acquiring a DTV converter box.
So, if your tv is a 20 foot flatscreen or a 15" 1978 model zenith, all will work.
-- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
I can't believe anyone pays for cable, when it's obvious directv is so much more superior!
sarcasm mode=off....
Don't be a pompous ass.
-- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
Then essentially you should reword it to be that you aren't paying for it, it's included in your package.
Difference.
-- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
Since when is a person who speaks their mind about items obviously skewed considered "libertarian"?
-- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
Your the rare exception that needs to spend money to make themselves happy 24x7. Have at it!
-- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
>>>You live in an area with mild weather and blessed with reliable cable service.
Precisely. Which is why I tell the people *in my area* that "if they have cable, dish, or FiOS television, they don't need to worry about the February digital switchover."
Your location may require different advice.
The government is not your daddy. Its purpose is not to raid middle-class neighbors' wallets and give it to you.
The FCC has already passed a ruling that cable MUST provide analog to their customers until the year 2013. The FCC should add a second part to the ruling that states cable may not include a surcharge. Forcing analog customers to pay $5 a month to rent a box is ridiculous & greedy.
My PVR works with the digital box, because the digital box has a so-called "VCR Timer" that automagically switches channels at predetermined times.
The government is not your daddy. Its purpose is not to raid middle-class neighbors' wallets and give it to you.
I got to watch HD quality news about Gustav and people's power going out :)
-- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
I can't believe anyone still uses them there computers. I don't know anyone other than myself that uses a computer.
*shakes head* what you said is just idiotic.
-- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
for you.
-- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
Nearly-all of these converters use RF or Composite video connections, which means the resolution is bandwidth-limited to 4 megahertz, aka 430x480 resolution. So it's actually SUB-standard definition!
I made sure to buy a box that uses S-video, which is capable of creating DVD-quality (720x480) video, albeit with reduced color resolution (30 lines horizontal).
The government is not your daddy. Its purpose is not to raid middle-class neighbors' wallets and give it to you.
$60 a month? I don't pay that for cable AND broadband.
I expected this thread to be about half, "kill your television" and half, "I get all the channels I need with rabbit ears already". I'm surprised to see neither really making any traction. With that said, this will be quite possibly the biggest non-issue since "Y2K". I know exactly ONE person (my office mate) who gets tv over the air. I haven't even seen over-the-air broadcasts in probably 10 years. Call me strange and all, but being a random guy on a random site about technology, I don't think it is weird that I haven't NOT had cable since 1988.
The only time I've ever heard TV audio on the radio was when tuning to the audio carrier of a local TV station. Radio stations aren't what they used to be, but then neither are TV stations.
Now just imagine yourself sitting in the dark, with no TV, no lights, nothing at all, wondering WTF is going on. Gosh, it sure would be nice to be able to listen to the radio so you 'd know what is coming your way. But no, you had to be the smartass on Slashdot who relied on the TV instead of keeping a battery powered radio around... possibly even one with receive coverage of the local amateur repeaters so you could listen to the storm spotters and know what's happening even before the broadcast stations.
*You do know that flat panel does not equal dtv, right? Or is that what Walmart told you?* Okay, in a nutshell so you understand...
There are issues with what you term "airwave transmitted video," (OTA). Current NTSC OTA viewers in fringe areas may find that things aren't as simple as purchasing a converter box - ATSC 8VSB is far less forgiving with marginal signals and DTV coverage appears to favor major metro areas. IOTA viewers in the deep suburbs may very well require a good roof-mounted antenna (Google Gray-Hoverman for an excellent DIY design) and rural viewers may find slim pickings compared to the "good ol' analog days."
But why would you advise against taking advantage of a conversion program that allows you to by a converter for a very reduced price?
Price of a converter is small change compared to what the cable company charges for monthly subscription.
These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
First of all, I was exchanging a smart ass comment for another one...
Nice. Nothing like listening to a bunch of arm chaired weather spotters giving fair weather reports...
These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
It doesn't really affect me because I haven't watched TV on a regular basis for a couple of decades. If there is a show I want to watch, I wait for it to come out in DVD. If I want current news, I check the web or read a newspaper. If there is an emergency that requires extremely current information, I listen to the radio.
I do pity those people who rely upon broadcast TV for their entertainment and/or information. But that IS a life style choice that they make and this change has been talked about for quite a few years not.
They'll adjust. I do suspect that there will be a lot of calls to the local TV stations from people that never listen to public service ads warning of the changes. (I wonder how many of these calls will be from channel flippers that never listen to commercials or public service ads?)
Living atop the south hill in Pittsburgh, I pick up just about every station listed on TVFool.com, both analog and digital. I'm using a homebuilt antennas, HDHR, and MythTV (FTW!). In fact, I think I get only one single channel from (evil) Comcast Cable that I don't get from an antenna -- TBS. Reception totally depends on where you are, and your ability to pull in the signals. Next project is to build a Yagi to get the PBS stations from Ohio, and see if they have any UK Sci Fi.
Zhrodague.net - I do projects and stuff too.
You're not offering friendly insight, you're offering batshit conspiracy theories, and consequently there's no talking to you anyhow.
I know of at least one station that has already done this KLBY when the went fully-digital back in August. I'm sure there were others who did it even sooner. They cut the analog feed and are serving only the DTV feed to their area viewers. Of the 1629 stations in 211 markets who have informed NAB that they are broadcasting in digital, I'm sure more than a few of them are exclusively DTV.
I never said Digital Broadcasts don't exist, and I never said DTV isn't somewhat active. What I said was that it doesn't truly exist; because as far as the FCC is concerned to a degree it doesn't have to until Feb. 2009. This is a subtle but important difference.
The logic for most of what I said stems from this, particularly the other comment you wasted time arguing with. If this assumption is indeed incorrect than that whole statement (that I made, inferred from that premise) is invalid; no need to attack both. But since you felt the need to in such particular disorder I'll counter with, "And what law would that be?"
Secondly, and back to my main point. The link you provided is broken; tvfool.org does not exist; Not being familiar with it I tried tvfool.com which might be what you meant; but in any event couldn't find any sign of the review you spoke of. Which brings me to point three:
Ironically, after looking at your "reference" I discovered that they make the same point and conclusion that I do. In case you missed it have a read, particularly the 8th paragraph.
http://www.tvfool.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=50&Itemid=99999999&limit=1&limitstart=1
Either way, do you really think that those channels are going to cease to exist when the analog gets turned off? Similarly do you think advertisers won't notice the problem that fewer people are able to view the adds. OTA has a pretty good service record over the past 50 years; especially compared to Cable. Give them a chance to launch the thing before you rip into them.
By all means if come April things are as messed up as say they are now, sure you win you are right. What that means isn't even clear. The number of factors involved isn't simple enough to say its all FCC's fault or its all the OTA stations fault. Irregardless you can wave around your "I told you so" flag.
But until then, and at this point in time, I feel like the only thing you can do is have a little faith in the TV stations and demonstrate some patience. Either quit complaining about being an early adopter or actually counter something I (or anyone else) have said with a valid, substantiated point.
"Jazz isn't dead, it just smells funny" ~Frank Zappa
EdelFactor
Every time I've visited the local Best Buy recently they've had a HUGE stack of converter boxes (well over 100).