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HP's Fury At Vista Capable Downgrade
More documents are coming out in court proceedings over the Vista Capable debacle. Internetnews.com has good coverage of HP's fury over Microsoft lowering the requirements for a Vista Capable sticker, at Intel's request. "Intel officials may have been pleased that Microsoft lowered standards for obtaining the company's Windows Vista Capable logo program sticker, but the same can't be said about HP's execs. 'I can't be more clear than to say you not only let us down by reneging on your commitment to stand behind the [device driver model] requirement, you have demonstrated a complete lack of commitment to HP as a strategic partner and cost us a lot of money in the process,' said one e-mail from Richard Walker, the senior vice president of HP's consumer business unit, to [Microsoft executives]." PCPro.co.uk follows the trail of accusatory emails inside Microsoft from there: "HP's email prompted then Microsoft co-President, Jim Allchin, to send a furious email of his own to company CEO Steve Ballmer. Allchin's email suggests the decision to lower the requirements was made in his absence by Ballmer, following 'a call between you and Paul [Otellini, Intel CEO].' 'I am beyond being upset here,' Allchin wrote to Ballmer. 'What a mess. Now we have an upset partner, Microsoft destroyed credibility [sic], as well as my own credibility shot.' Ballmer, in turn, blamed another Microsoft executive, Will Poole, in a rather erratically typed reply to Allchin."
Many users don't feel comfortable doing an OS install themselves. HP in the past used to sell laptops with SUSE preinstalled. If you're pissed at Microsoft, a letter won't do anything. You're still preinstalling Vista on every computer.
Offer a new line of openSUSE laptops with all the hardware configured and working out of the box (wireless, webcam, etc) and that will send a message to Microsoft.
http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
Jim,
I most certainly did not... *picks up chair*
It was *throws chair* Will Poole who made the decision. Blame him.
Sorry I have to run. My anger management class starts in 5 minutes.
Steve
This sounds more like high school than execs and CEOs... Sounds like you guys lost credibility a long time ago.
Point your finger harder!
The advertisement directly under this story reads "HERE'S TO LESS DROPPED BALLS. with Microsoft Visual Studio" you can't make this stuff up.
haha! with delight! I will be reaching for the popcorn whilst I read what promises to be an amusing article and linked mails.
/. crowd.
This will haunt them.
I suspect they will get little sympathy from the
Wait...Microsoft had credibility with system-requirements to destroy?!?
And thrown a chair at Allchin.
At least he's emailing now.
The price is always right if someone else is paying.
What did Intel do to make it suitable?
Furries were involved. I knew it!
HP should stop moaning about its own (obviously unqualified) recommendations.
Sorry, Jim, that train left the station back in the 90's, if not earlier.
Do you have ESP?
Is there a mod for both "lacks reading comprehension" and "is exceptionally offensive"?
Hard to argue with HP for being pissed off about this one. The PC market is cutthroat, so making an investment in higher priced integrated and/or discrete graphics chipsets, only to discover at the last moment that your competition has just been given the green light to undersell you with relaxed requirements has got to hurt.
MS was in a lousy position there, with no way to please everybody; but their handling of the situation was surprisingly inelegant. Lots of confusion and behind-one-another's-back talking to partners. I wonder if they messed up, or if they figure that HP et al. will just have to suck it up. One also wonders, at this point, if it wouldn't have been better for MS to just pay Intel to dump the 915s(either literally, or into low-end "emerging markets" products).
If I understand you correctly... Microsoft = Huge Black Cocks?
If you've got a gripe, I suggest keeping it brief, because really, nobody read all that. Also post it under your user name. From the bits I read, my answer would be that there is no mind control as such. It just happens that people that people with similar view points are attracted to the existing group of people that share those views.
Everybody seems to think I'm lazy I don't mind, I think they're crazy
I think he's talking about the fact that they couldn't jack up the barrier to entry for a Vista capable system and thus increase revenue and profit. Vista was an opportunity to stop the steady decline in average unit cost and hence revenue for the consumer product division.
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
Is anyone else enjoying this or is it just me? I mean, this is like some kind of geek bitch-slap fight.
only stepping stones on the path to more money.
They could have shipped XP instead.
Ooh, MS won't sell them? Fine, sell them with Linux or FreeDos (that's what Lenovo does, or did, btw)
how long until
Then you should have stuck for what you believe and refused to sell underpowered vista machines.
You don't seem to understand what HP "believes in" -- it is making a profit.
When all the other vendors are able to sell underpowered and consequently underpriced vista machines with the same labeling as yours, then hardly anyone is going to buy your comparatively overpriced system. The majority of consumers are not capable of distinguishing between the intel 915 and 935 motherboard chipsets at the retail level. But they are able to recognize a $50 price difference.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
Does HP cite loss of sales because consumers are not purchasing computers? Or computers with Linux? Or Macs? Or what?
How does Windows Vista hurt HP's sales? HP, Dell, Lenovo, Compaq/Gateway, etc are all selling similar systems with similar specs and Windows Vista pre-installed.
Unless users are just not buying computers to dodge Vista, are switching to Linux or the Mac, I don't see how HP can cite that this is due to Vista.
How can this not be due to the recession that that is occurring in the United States?
What's even more ironic, is that if they hadn't come up with Vista-Capable, these notebooks would have been stuck on XP. Seeing how a large number of users specifically downgraded to XP on a Vista purchase, I can't see how selling these machines with XP only wouldn't have been (truly) a feature.
.. if Intel just had quit making the effing joking graphics cards they make.
If they had competent people making something which resembles more to a modern graphics card instead of the GMA turd that they have - they would not have to be in this mess. And sure as hell they could invest lots of money if they wanted to be in that position. There is NO excuse to make crappy graphics cards - as NVidia and ATI have shown they can make darn fast integrated GPUs that do not drain the battery and do not take more space than anything else.
Incompetence is the new root of all evil.
This is a joke and nonsensical.
Then you should have stuck for what you believe and refused to sell underpowered vista machines.
I believe that's what they did. Problem being, MS lowered the bar at the last moment after HP was already selling their machines, and everyone else undercut them with less-than-adequate machines. And being as Joe 40oz doesn't know the difference between the systems, he's likely to go with the latter, thus HP loses a ton of money.
upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
So, let me see if I understand this...
HP is beyond angry that MS listened to other manufacturers' concerns, and made a change that prevented HP from being able to basically corner the early-adoption market, or at least a huge chunk of it.
The saying "sucks to be them" comes to mind. Especially since I'm pretty sure that HP needs MS more than MS needs HP. What choice does HP have besides going with MS - switching to exclusively Linux pre-loads? Write their own OS? Good luck.
While I can understand HP's position to a point, I can't escape thinking that maybe, just maybe, they should have been improving their product to the maximum extent possible anyway, regardless of what MS did or didn't say or promise. Unless there is a hard written contractural committment, HP is basically SOL.
I guess I just can't get too fired up watching a spat between companies using corporate politics and marketing departments to dictate engineering.
The person at the top is ultimately responsible.
Ballmer is the Ringo star of the software industry.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Are you under the impression that MS is the only place where this happens? Personal experience tells me that absurd requests for features from high-profile customers, and sales guys who over promise is a problem most anywhere else.
I just don't think most places have the luxury of having a well planned, development driven process.
As much as I'm usually pretty down on MS, I'm just not convinced they're any different in this case.
Cheers
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
Frist Post
Pray tell why the " [sic] " follows "credibility" in the article? ref: ".. Allchin wrote to Ballmer. 'What a mess. Now we have an upset partner, Microsoft destroyed credibility [sic], as well as my own credibility shot.' " Is it that you think its misspelled? (It isn't.)
"There are 11 kinds of people: those who know binary, those who don't, and those who could not care less!"
It wasn't that, but (paraphrasing TFA) MS had promised that a higher graphics capability was required for Vista and HP structured their offering around this. Then MS backpedaled for Intel and said the lower-powered 915 chipset (w/integrated graphic) would quality as "Vista Capable" allowing other vendors to sell cheaper systems advertised as such (that could really only run Vista Basic) which would compete against HP models that were really Vista Capable - in the truer sense.
HP had already made the investment in a more expensive product line based on the original MS promise. Now they would have to market against vendors offering cheaper, less-capable systems that could be advertised identically as "Vista Capable".
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
The moderation system is a form of mind control, in a way. It works well when there is some balance, as there is, for example, in the capitalism/socialism debates that crop up every now and then. It is also good for dragging people back to reality as a good hard link trumps most other considerations.
We do need to be aware that the Slashdot mod system can sometimes promote groupthink. For example, because the vast majority of Slashdotters are freethinkers (atheists, agnostics, irreligious etc.), as indeed am I, it does tend to drive away or silence those who aren't.
I'm glad someone even skimmed that rambling tirade to find interesting points. The less concise you are, the crazier you sound. Though ranting on about the 'power' of Slashdot does make you sound even more nuts, as it basically has none.
All intents and purposes. Not intensive purposes.
Thankfully in FOSSs case. Decisions are engineer-driven all the way.
Shai Schticks:"You don't make peace with friends, you make peace with enemies"
Their own managers got screwed by this. From Information Week:
http://www.informationweek.com/news/windows/operatingsystems/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=212100310
In another e-mail, Microsoft Windows product manager Mike Nash said even he was fooled by the campaign: "I personally got burned by the Intel 915 chipset issue on a laptop that I personally" bought "with my own $$$." Nash said he purchased the Sony laptop "because it had the Vista logo and was pretty disappointed."
"I now have a $2,100 e-mail machine," Nash complained.
Nothing new here. Another day. Another episode demonstrating that there are no ethics or leadership at the top of this company. Just a bunch of ignorant whores.
According to Intel, the i915 chipset does not have a native hardware scheduler and hence cannot fully support the WDDM design. I believe there were alpha versions of WDDM drivers for i915 but they only supported a subset of WDDM features and were scrapped early in the project.
:)
I reckon it is actually possible to have full WDDM on i915, but the performance would be absolutely horrible because the scheduling would have to be done in the driver - and we all know how zippy Intel drivers are
I'm sorry I don't have mod points right now; it's nice to hear a voice of reason among some of these rants. I think that a tiff between a major computer maker and a major software vendor really is "news for nerds."
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When the vendors are starting to play the "Vista yay" games while everyone else is rolling back Vista to XP at first opportunity.
Example: NVidia fucked over the consumer by making their newest stereo3D drivers not just Vista-only, but also by removing LCD shutter support (meaning you're limited to color-distorting anaglyph red/blue glasses, or really crapass zalman monitors).
check it out.
Next time I upgrade, unless they fix this, NVidia will not even be considered.
It's their new marketing strategy.
All intents and purposes. Not intensive purposes.
If you've got a gripe, I suggest keeping it brief, because really, nobody read all that.
Reading just the last part
"If we're wrong and Slashdot does not try to let scornful chiselers serve as our overlords, we'll be relieved," we can see that it's complete gibberish, not an actual complaint. Overlords? Chislers? I swear, there should be some type of test before posting to weed out those people who are apperantly on LSD. Maybe "Did Dick Cheney initiate the 9/11 attacks y/n" and those who answer yes automatically get posted on the "insane/inane shadow slashdot."
How did you fail THIS badly?
-=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
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the 915 was a piece of junk and never should have been given the go-ahead to be vista capable
I fail to understand how a technical compatibility list (which is what the "Vista capable" logo is all about) can be modified by management.
Did Microsoft execs magically increased the processing power of all the Intel 915 chipsets on earth?
Comment removed based on user account deletion
How did you fail THIS badly?
I'm guessing lots of practice
psmylie's dictionary: Godzillion (noun) Any number large enough to destroy Tokyo
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Keep it up Microsoft. You and Apple are showing more and more the tight grips you squeeze on the consumers you serve. Betraying even your own honor system to sell more. Every giant public outrageous greed-driven corporate-minded move you make drives more and more users away from the licenses and ideals that give you the power to do so.
That means more and more users will use Ubuntu. Which means lots of them will move on to Fedora and the like. Which means some of them will continue on and eventually a few will actually end up being real linux and unix users and developers.
So thanks for the help and enjoy your success! Just remember what happens when the grip gets too tight and too monopolistic - we break your fingers.
I occasionally receive inquiries from people who have read my previous letters and want to know why I insist that Scott Pakin's automatic complaint-letter generator is eminently incoherent. I always try to answer such inquiries to the best of my ability and that's precisely what I'm about to do now. I assume you already know that I was sincerely appalled when I first learned that Scott Pakin's automatic complaint-letter generator's stooges want to lower this country's moral tone and depreciate its commercial integrity, but I have something more important to tell you.
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't it true that Scott Pakin's automatic complaint-letter generator should be in better control of its hormones? Nice try to step on other people's toes, Scott Pakin's automatic complaint-letter generator. I find that stuck-up adulterers are no different from mindless bloodsuckers. Let me explain. People tell me that Scott Pakin's automatic complaint-letter generator's putrid rejoinders do not comport with my policy always to build a world overflowing with compassion and tolerance. And the people who tell me this are correct, of course.
I feel no shame in writing that Scott Pakin's automatic complaint-letter generator is still going around insisting that it's okay to leave the educational and emotional needs of our children in the ghastly hands of contemptuous nebbishes. Jeez, I thought I had made it perfectly clear to it that its spokesmen don't represent an ideology. They don't represent a legitimate political group of people. They're just flat headlong. It is never easy to judge what the most appropriate or effective response to Scott Pakin's automatic complaint-letter generator's backwards sermons is but one unfortunate fact remains clear: Scott Pakin's automatic complaint-letter generator has a natural talent for complaining. It can find any aspect of life and whine about it for hours upon hours.
This moral issue will eventually be rendered academic by the fact that to get even the simplest message into the consciousness of the most insincere tyrants you'll ever see it has to be repeated at least fifty times. Now, I don't want to insult your intelligence by telling you the following fifty times, but Scott Pakin's automatic complaint-letter generator will stop at nothing to understate the negative impact of simplism. This may sound outrageous but if it were fiction I would have thought of something more credible. As it stands, one of the goals of absolutism is to render meaningless the words "best" and "worst". Scott Pakin's automatic complaint-letter generator admires that philosophy because, by annihilating human perceptions of quality, Scott Pakin's automatic complaint-letter generator's own mediocrity can flourish. Scott Pakin's automatic complaint-letter generator's unimaginative half-measures can be quite educational. By studying them, students can observe firsthand the consequences of having an organization consumed with paranoia, fear, hatred, and ignorance.
It's not a question of if but only of when Scott Pakin's automatic complaint-letter generator will steal the fruits of other people's labor, but I won't linger on that. While we all despair over Scott Pakin's automatic complaint-letter generator's polyloquent, muzzy-headed quips, we must also remember the principles that will guide our better behaviors and higher aspirations. This may sound like caricature, but the pen is a powerful tool. Why don't we use that tool to balkanize Scott Pakin's automatic complaint-letter generator's chauvinistic junta into an etiolated and sapless agglomeration? I can't possibly believe Scott Pakin's automatic complaint-letter generator's claim that coercion in the name of liberty is a valid use of state power. If someone can convince me otherwise, I'll eat my hat. Heck, I'll eat a whole closetful of hats. That's a pretty safe bet because anyone who hasn't been living in a cave with his eyes shut and his ears plugged knows that you should never forget the three most important facets of Scott Pakin's automa
as evidenced by the way that in a recent essay, Slashdot stated that it is the most recent incarnation of the Buddha
How can you read that and /not/ chuckle?
Not to mention the message it will send to HP's retailers and resellers ;)
Apparently one problem Asus faced with their original Linux-only Eee was that a lot of them got returned as "broken" by some dolts who tried to install MS Office and the likes on them, and concluded that the laptop is broken if they can't. The Windows XP line offered at least a way to say "well, ok, but we can offer this one instead."
Additionally, _SUSE_? I'm writing this on a SUSE machine, and while it's great for work, Novell stripped it of all useful codecs. You can't even play an MP3 or a DVD on it, without downloading and/or compiling your own libraries and media players. Kaffeine as shipped with SUSE, will just give you an error message that it can't due to IP issues, when you try to play a DVD with it.
So, yeah, imagine the joy of Joe Sixpack when he buys a SUSE-only HP computer and it doesn't play his MP3s, it doesn't play that rented DVD, it doesn't really play anything. Great home theatre platform, eh? A lot of those will really be Joe Sixpack types who don't even have a flipping clue what SourceForge or Freshmeat are. They'll see just that their new computer doesn't play DVDs or music. While the Joneses down the street have no problem playing theirs on their Dell computer, and the yuppie down the street with his Apple computer and iPod even less so.
Can you say "return"? I knew you could.
So, um, yeah, if you want to convince your retailers and resellers that your computers get disportionately more returns, by all means, start a SUSE-only line. That'll send them a message :P
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
. Slashdot is the one who decides whether or not to fuel inquisitions
Only when least expected...
Now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure everything I just said is completely wrong.
FTFA:
I'm sure those poor betrayed Microsoft execs were wondering "what did we do to deserve this?"
Plenty of that type of poo to go around. I see it all the time, here at Gigantor Medical Co. Of course, we can't do _anything_ to fix the real problems; we don't have the time or resources. Doing things the right way to begin with is somewhat like witnessing a miracle.
Truth, Justice. Or the American Way.
I read it as:
said one e-mail from Richard Walker, the senior vice president of HP's consumer business unit, to [Microsoft expletives]
--You will rephrase your request for me to go to hell. Goto statements are not acceptable programming constructs
Where is the link for the second quote of the story?
No kidding. This isn't a phenomena limited to Microsoft, or even to the IT industry in general. In pretty much any situation where one person is trying to sell something to another person, you'll get some degree of this sort of feature creep, or stretching of truth. And sometimes it's just honest mistakes.
And it's not just the marketing and sales guys who are always to blame. MS had to cut out a bunch of stuff that they originally said was going to be in Vista. So they oversold their capabilities. But chances are that somewhere along the line, an engineer told management that they could have the new file system integrated and working on time. I don't know why that particular feature didn't make it in time. Maybe management didn't staff it properly. Maybe there was too much arguing on how to implement it. Maybe the engineers were just plain wrong about how hard it would be to get it up and running.
I'm not trying to say that Microsoft does a particularly good job at producing their products, but missing deadlines and having to scale back intentions happens to 99% of all projects out there anywhere in the real world. The reasons are many, and even the best and brightest people in the world can't predict and plan for everything that could go wrong. Development of Windows is not an easy task, and there are probably hundreds if not thousands of distinct situations in the development of each version where things get screwed up. You can't blame it all on the sales people.
One time I threw a brick at a duck.
In retrospect, we can ponder what would have happened if MS had stuck with the WDDM requirement. In order to appease Intel and sell more copies of Vista, MS lowered the requirement. According to internal emails this WDDM requirement would mean Intel's exposure of hundreds of millions of dollars (200-400 according to various sources) that they could not sell. This estimation was based on the assumption that consumers would not buy computers with the Intel 915 chipset because they could not upgrade. However, the launch of Vista was less than ideal and this requirement change helped to mar Vista's image. Ironically, those customers that bought computers that were not really Vista Capable probably don't really want Vista anyways because of the problems. In the long run, this decision (with the resulting lawsuit) may have cost Intel and MS more than the original exposure. I guess this is all hindsight but most consumers don't care. They just want their OS to work. Vista/XP/2000/98 whatever it is called.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
Dude, the person you a replying to is clearly either
a) schizophrenic, or
b) trolling.
HTH HAND
Are you under the impression that MS is the only place where this happens?
Are you kidding?
Personal experience tells me that absurd requests for features from high-profile customers, and sales guys who over promise is a problem most anywhere else.
True, but, in the end, not an excuse.
I just don't think most places have the luxury of having a well planned, development driven process.
I wouldn't go that far.
As much as I'm usually pretty down on MS, I'm just not convinced they're any different in this case.
I've been dealing with microsoft crap since there was a microsoft. microsoft is one of the worst offenders, if not the prototype.
Whatever judgment goes against M$ they simply tack the cost of it onto the next version of Windoze and their customers wind up paying for it. I don't really see how this would trouble M$ beyond the bad PR, and even that would be lost in all the other bad PR they are getting - over Windoze 7, for instance Link
Once I was a four stone apology. Now I am two separate gorillas.
"I had nothing to do with this Will handled everything I received a message that paul was going to call Will said he would handle it Paul called I had not even had a chance to report his issues when Will told me he had solved them (it did not sound like he had) I am not even in the detail of the issues. You better get will under control thanks."
Anybody want to bet that was typed on a Blackberry or equivalent?
It's their new marketing strategy.
Yes.. But it tends to run tight.
It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his job depends on not understanding it.
Dell pays to license codecs and such and includes them in their Ubuntu install. I'm sure HP would do the same.
For a traditional openSUSE install you are literally a one-click installer away from having all the codecs and packages you need for every major "restricted" format.
And while a retailer dealing with an Asus netbook can't provide technical support, when it comes to a big name like HP, they can provide technical support for their products.
http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
Agreed. Reminds me of a salesman we had at this independent Apple Partner where I used to work a number of years ago (I was the PC service manager). He'd promise the moon to customers spending well under $1000 on used machines. Luckily, I was able to deliver enough features by installing various FOSS to keep customers from being too disappointed; they all thought they were getting Symantec security software, MS Office, Photoshop, and hardware upgrades for free after talking to that salesman. The guy was eventually fired when he went too far and we ended up losing money on one particular sale. Anyway, my point is that yeah, this happens all the time, all over the place.
See Dick.
See Dick run.
See Dick run Linux.
Wanna fight ? Bend over, stick your head up your ass, and fight for air.
Good point. I'd like to see the moderation system change: when you get mod points, you also get set to browse without seeing anyone else's moderations of articles (threaded still, perhaps, but no sorting by moderation, and ideally without author names or sigs). And of course a "I'm not moderating today" button so you can benefit from the wisdom of others.
On a side note, I take issue with your example. When faith, not reason, influences a thought, that thought should be mocked. Holding people of faith to a lower intellectual standard exemplifies the worst side of Affirmative Action. But I agree with your point--the thought should be mocked because it is ridiculous, not because of groupthink.
"The biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place."
Mind you, I tried to play a DVD on a Windows machine, and guess what? It didn't have the right codecs either. And it led me to a Microsoft site with list of places where I could BUY one. I think it's easier to play a DVD on a Linux machine, actually.
You solve that by a pre-configured browser popup on first boot going to the distributor's codec repository, where the user sees a big banner that says, if you want to play MP3s and videos, *click here*. Seems like an easy solution to me.
Uh, "if it looks roughly mouse-shaped according to my infra-red sensitive pit, eat it"? --Chris Burke 09-08-10
I don't care about Microsoft passing the buck internally, and I doubt HP does either. What's important is that it's HP's buck that MS is passing.
Intel and Microsoft both got more cash by selling out companies trying to sell computers that were actually Vista-ready in favor of more and cheaper units from other vendors whose boxes weren't.
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Hard to argue with HP for being pissed off about this one. The PC market is cutthroat, so making an investment in higher priced integrated and/or discrete graphics chipsets, only to discover at the last moment that your competition has just been given the green light to undersell you with relaxed requirements has got to hurt.
Is that what HP is claiming? That it was forced to add higher-end components to be able to ship Vista machines, only to be undercut by competitors later?
If that's the case, then why on Earth did the HP 2133 Mini-Note, HP's (rather pricey) entry into the "netbook" market, ship with Vista? It's not like they went all-out to add high-end components to it. To my knowledge, it is the only netbook that does ship with Vista, and Vista is its biggest Achilles heel. You cannot activate Aero Glass on it, so forget about that. You probably don't want to activate most of the gee-whiz Vista desktop features, because the Via processor is really poky. Its Windows Experience index is 1.7, fer chrissakes, and that's because of the processor rating. Why, HP? Why??
Breakfast served all day!
Anything. Anything at all; emanating out of the orator Ballmer, is total rhetoric and has absolutely no basis in fact, fantasy or reality. He is a total illusion to the stakeholders of Micro$oft, and all that it stands for. He has in a phrase; gone completely over the other end.
Anything you hear from him is complete fiction. Not to put any credence to.
Having personally tried this myself in several areas, I concur with the likes of many test sites that have stated Vista is a joke. It is solely designed for NEW HARDWARE ONLY, and nothing else. That new hardware better damn well be very fast, with lots of memory, cache, and multiprocessor. The performance index of 1.0 sucks rocks. Even XP loaded with junk in the browser and temp cache runs faster than this beast.
Now show me Windows 7. Lets see what that is supposed to be.
All content in this message is copyright (c) 2008. All rights reserved. RIAA is prohibited here.
I doubt that post had anything to do with Slashdot moderation system or Slashdot groupthink. It looks to me a like a cut-and-paste of some pol with %s/Hated Individual or Group/Slashdot//g
My blog
You can complain all you want, but...
TLDR ;) ...nobody will hear you then.
Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
viri - Latin, meaning "man".
viruses - plural form of "virus".
>While I can understand HP's position to a point, I can't escape thinking that maybe,
>just maybe, they should have been improving their product to the maximum extent possible anyway, regardless of what MS did or didn't say or promise.
No, you are missing the point entirely, as has already been stated.
HP doesn't go out and just build the most awesome computers they can. They build a whole array of systems, from low-end to high-end, so that customers with different amounts of money to spend have a product to choose from.
The problem here is that Microsoft set the low-end benchmark requirement at a certain level, which HP built to, and then Microsoft lowered the requirement for the benefit of Intel. Now Intel can undercut HPs low-end systems with its cheaper, even less powerful systems.
HP has every right to be extremely pissed off.
A work that expires before its copyright never enters the public domain and thus enjoys eternal copyright protection.
Yours was grammatical and properly punctuated.
The email in Exhibit F looks like it was written by a 2nd grader... who is failing English. Ballmer is a pathetic spectacle. If that is his standard of communication, Mircosfot is truly doomed.
Well, they're doomed anyway! Hooray!
you had me at #!
If we're wrong and Slashdot does not try to let scornful chiselers serve as our overlords, we'll be relieved. If we're right and it does, we'll be prepared..
You should put that on a T-shirt.
My thoughts exactly. I had to read it twice before I realized that it was about Slashdot and not the Bush Administration!
That Ballmer is close to illiterate. Unsurprising, though.
you had me at #!
No incentive to innovate, act ethically, or even to be civilised.
Therefore - they don't bother.
Why does anyone find this surprising? But it's all going to come grinding to a tremendously deserved final collapse. Pass the popcorn!
you had me at #!
HP, Intel, et al, missed an opportunity here. The Windows Experience Index in Vista. While intel could flood the market with cheap "vista capable" 915 chipsets, HP could have turned around and advertised the fact that their Vista experience was much better.
Heck-- crank up the competition for expereince index ratings, and the MFGs might actually start paying more attention to their drivers.
Does that seem like a lot to anyone else?
And its selling pretty cheap right now too....
This according to google-finance. Its just curious, I am no expert.
Right and for people who believe in a supreme beings they're forced into posting anonymous comments as to not be chided about it i.e. "You actually believe in the Spaghetti monster and his noodly appendage?" (come on guys that joke is so old now) I am not religous, consider myself logical and open minded, but I believe in a supreme being... soo!
http://moneycentral.msn.com/investor/invsub/insider/trans.asp?Symbol=MSFT
I'm not sure I'd agree with the "Freethinker" moniker. Being open to all possibilities is practically required when you're dealing with computers or troubleshooting any complex system (which I believe the majority of Slashdot members do/did regularly). This doesn't necessarily imply "Aetheist, Agnostic, Irreligious, etc.", anymore than a science degree implies it.
This space for rent. All reasonable inquiries will be entertained at proprietors discretion.
Microsoft destroyed credibility [sic]
This part made me laugh.
I've noticed there are an awful lot of Steves in the industry. Ballmer, Wozniak and Jobs, plus a handful of others that I probably don't know about. I think Jobs and Wozniak (and others) should hold a vote to make Ballmer change his first name to something else. I'm sure he embarrasses them.
Admit it. You post strawman arguments as AC so you get modded Insightful for refuting them, rather than Troll
My freethinking is what empowers me to believe in God. Being a techy who cares about geeky science stuff should require me not to, but that would be submitting to the status quo "just because".
I'm free to think for myself, and I do so, religiously. I slam science geeks for not believing in God just because their peers don't when they haven't put any good thought into it themselves from the same angle I'd slam someone for not believing in evolution when they haven't put any good thought into it either.
- Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
You actually believe in the Spaghetti monster and his noodly appendage?
Consider yourself chided, sir.
"But this one goes to 11!"
So, who all read that very long post? :)
-Echo
My boss believes in god, so so do I.
Do you ever have any of the science geeks you slam turn it around and accuse you of only believing in God because your parents/peers do and you haven't put any good thought into it yourself? If so what is your reaction? If not, how would you react? That train of logic goes both ways on the tracks...
(I know you will probably reply that you HAVE put a good deal of thought in it yourself. Then I would ask you - how do you know they haven't done the same as well?)
"But this one goes to 11!"
so in a group of free thinkers someone that doesnt think like the rest is not a free thinker? That is rather limited thinking.
Semi-automatic amateur armchair Australian philosopher; conjecture ready at any moment...
I think Microsoft did HP a favor. Have you tried Mojavie? Intel is biting off the wrong bark... once the low-end laptop users get a load of the UAC they will never buy a Microsoft product again. I mean this is actually a much sadder day for Microsoft and Intel as a couple than HP. HP will survive.
Your example is even worse than you suspect, Vista, by default, uses some screwy M$ format instead of ISO and you will be able to read the disc that was burned ONLY on another Vista machine, unless they are led thru the extra steps to get a a properly portable disc.
There is no right to feel safe thru security vaudeville at the expense of everyone's freedom, privacy and tax money.
>Heck-- crank up the competition for expereince index ratings, and the MFGs might actually start paying more attention to their drivers.
Yes, in no time at all we'd have special drivers that would detect being called for calculating the index, and just returning directly doing no work.
Belief is the currency of delusion.
you mean the snake bit the entity that carried it across the river?
nothing to learn from this, move along
openSuse will solve all. end of story.
I had no problems getting openSuSE to play DVDs, mp3s, etc ... no compiling needed, just needed to enable some repos.
I agree though, Ubuntu makes it so much easier - the first time you atempt to play one it asks you to download the proper codec.
As has always been the case and the #1 reason Microsoft products suck in general, marketing makes the product technology decisions.
That's like the theory that the world rides on the back of a giant turtle; it doesn't explain what the turtle is standing on. You've just moved the locus of incompetence from engineering to marketing. A competent marketing department would know the limits of its capabilities, and would probably have a pretty good seat of the pants understanding of engineering if that was essential to their job.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Nobody expects the ./ inquisition!
Then I would ask you - how do you know they haven't done the same as well?
Because they're WRONG, obviously. /sarcasm
Momentarily, the need for the construction of new light will no longer exist.
This kind of thing is precisely why a third party should decide on hardware requirements for an operating system. Otherwise, marketing is sure to get in the way of the facts. If only Microsoft had realized this sooner... not only would they have avoided ticking off a business partner, but they may have been more inclined to improve some of Vista's benchmarks so that more machines were "actually" capable of running Vista. But now, they are left with a failed OS and a few less friends. Better luck with Windows 7. HP shouldn't be complaining too much though... they sold plenty of machines as "Vista capable" that had no business running Vista. Selling a machine with half a GB of RAM, and running Vista? There's no excuse for that.
Year after year, I maintain the feeling that Windows is teetering on the brink. The immense army of Microsoft's R&D organisation is employed to add "differentiators", i.e. more features, rather than less, so you'll always have planned obsolesence. This is inconsistent with getting the price per unit down to where it's competitive in the TCO equation they're selling to. At the Enterprise back office, it's still perceived by most of our customers that a Windows server solution is easier to plug together in a scalable way with the fewest possible high-end engineers. Because of this perception (aided by a very good single-source support portal in MSDN with a lot of expensive polish) many of our Enterprise customers see a Windows desktop -- at whatever level of evolution -- is the client of least resistance. This amounts to a lot of technology knitted together with a glue consisting of 1 part content, 1 part support, and 1 part marketing polish.
As far as overall quality and ease, well, you and I know different.
To make Linux prevail across the Enterprise will require a differentiator, something that can compensate for the immense marketing engine that is MSFT. This will have to be not just a convincing alternative, but a convincing argument that is driven home.
A couple of holdouts keep MSFT on the cliff instead of off it. A diminishing yet prevalent feeling of product consistency across the board (reinforced by their consistent portal graphics, I kid you not), the immense momentum of the installed product base and the fact that the users' home devices can run World of Warcraft on that platform and no other.
The cost equation is at present very much in favour of a Linux desktop + **Nix back end. Unless we somehow counter that marketing engine, however, we'll never be able to give the beast that last push over the cliff. And we'll need to do it in some other way than they do -- remember, it took a year-after-year consistency for Volkswagen to break the tailfin aristocracy of the 1950's car makers. Of course by that time planned obsolescence had reached absurd levels and people were ready for the change.
Maybe that's our marketing message -- "Do you really need the tailfins? Or would a simple, economical desktop do the job?"
If any marketing types out there have the links, it would be great to see some of the old VW beetle adverts. Inspirational simplicity.
Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear
Richard Walker(HP): Microsoft ate the Cheapie Cookie from the Cheapie Cookie Jar!
Jim Allchin (MS) Who, Me?
Richard Walker(HP) Yes, You!
Jim Allchin(MS) Couldn't Be.
Richard Walker (HP) Then Who?
(Internal MS)
Jim Allchin: Ballmer! Ballmer ate the Cheapie Cookie from the Cheapie Cookie Jar!
Steve Ballmer: Who, Me?
Jim Allchin: Yes, You!
Steve Ballmer: Couldn't Be.
Jim Allchin: Then Who?
Steve Ballmer: Poole! Poole ate the Cheapie Cookie from the Cheapie Cookie Jar!
Will Poole: Who, Me?
Steve Ballmer: Yes, You!
Will Poole: Couldn't Be.
Steve Ballmer: Then Who?
(Fade out, Name mentioned by Will Poole not audible)
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
Most of the laptops used by the sales team at my company are HP 6710 series, purchased between late 2006 and mid 2007. They all have the Vista sticker on them. Some of them have Intel 915 video, and some have.. some other Intel chip, I forget which, but they all run Aero okay on Vista Business. (They also came with one gig of memory which just isn't enough, but that's neither here nor there.) So, I'm confused -- what, exactly, is the problem here?
mirrorshades radio -- darkwave, industrial, futurepop, ebm.
it is at their individual discretion to decide whether or not they want to continue to support any given OS at any time of their choosing ultimately making their old hardware unusable at a moment's notice. {...} "But they would never do that!" you say? Yeah they would at the very moment they believe it would be to their advantage to do so.
And usually, said moment is when they can use this as an argument to make you purchase more hardware (sorry the old one isn't supported anymore).
Every major release of an OS (like the coming of Windows Vista) is an excellent pretext to drop support for older hardware and ask you to buy newer
Even if sometimes the "new" hardware is more of the same, simply rebadged as "new", painted a different colour, with hardware ID string slightly changed and packaged with compatible drivers (this can very easily happen with webcams as there only so few popular chips out-there).
For a different example of proprietary driver-makers abusing their position, see graphic cards manufacturers who voluntarily drop support of older models in their latest drivers, simply to push users on the upgrade treadmill, even if the old models are largely still good enough for simple desktop (and even some linux compiz & some unambitious Windows gaming).
At least AMD put some effort into collaboration with opensource projects and you're not completely left alone with your older GPU.
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
[...]MS's anticompetitive^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H incentive[...]
Are you aware that you can erase an entire word with ^W instead?
Who cares, I am all for those sorts of investors and companies to go bellyup, with no bailout. Look at GM now, hat in hand begging for a loan because collectively, management, labor and investors are all loons in that company.. Screw em, let em sink. I wish they had done it for those casino skimming banks as well, let em sink and sue each other over those ridiculous paper financial pseudo products that are mostly worth nothing, they are frauds. Ya, the overall economy would tank for a year, because globally we need it, we need to cut the rot and stupidity and greed out, and a lot of investors will lose their shirts, tough noogies, that's the point of assessing risk and paying attention to what your corporate hired stooges and elected hired stooges are doing, and any investor who is only worried about one quarter profit-who cares? We don't need to keep rewarding overt stupidity, greed and laziness. If some retarded computer company wants to go down while microsoft pisses on them, who cares? Demand will still be there for computers, and some smaller and smarter and faster moving companies will take their place, and be smart enough to offer some real choice beyond the borg of mediocrity and stupid and forced totally unnecessary so called "upgrades".
If some idiot company goes under because they can't function without the latest MS office "product"..let em sink! If some over priced office typists can't deal with OMG a very slightly different program, let em go broke, look for another job, stop with wasting time on movies and sports and reality Tv shows and videogames and actually try to learn something just a little bit different. Or fail, two choices now.
The economy is morphing rapidly now, the stupid and lazy and the ones who are panicking over one quarter ahead, and who have never really dealt pass that sort of time frame are going down, fullstop. Soup kitchen, bankruptcy, no more cushy job. Trying to do things the old way just isn't going to work for most companies out there anymore, because stuff is just changing too fast right now.
Evolve, adapt to changing times and realities, or go extinct chose one. MS was last century's behemoth, but not in this century, and anyone who can't see that coming is living on the banks of the river de-nile. Microsoft=General Motors, allegedly "too big to fail" Boolsheet, seen any 100 foot long dinosaurs around lately? MS is going down. They are still huge, giant.but reality is, they are going down eventually and most likely fast once they start to tumble. Alternatives are in too many products now, more and more people are becoming aware of the alternatives, and they are plenty good enough to function for 99% of the computer using public out there right now, let alone within another few years. MS took seven years to come out with something that looks to be around 6 months worth of work in the alternative OS side, a normal half a year upgrade release. They just can't cut it anymore. And tons of people think it sucks so bad they refuse to budge from the seven year old model. That's more than a single clue. If HP or Dell won't adapt, guaranteed some upstart Chinese or Taiwanese or Indian company will, heck maybe even some new US company. There's a lot of investor cash out there now looking for someplace that isn't *stupid* to invest in, and it is now cheap as Vc capital goes to do a computer assembly startup operation, even at huge scales. This isn't 1995, this is 2008, a whole lot of things have changed since MS became dominant and then decided to just milk things out.
And we've hit a plateau on just so many ways an office document can be arranged on a page, or needs to have what was a supercomputer a few years ago in order to type that thing up. Not needed, forced software upgrades that cost serious money are starting to look pretty stupid to more and more people, just to do exactly what they were doing the day previously. And paying more for that software than the hardware, for office memos?? heh..road to eventual bankruptcy, becaus
Actually, the proper response would have been "Because God told me they didn't."
"But this one goes to 11!"
believing in evolution
Evolution is not a belief, it is a scientific fact which can be tested. I'm sorry, but I get edgy when people start using belief to refer to things which are falsifiable.
All intents and purposes. Not intensive purposes.
Microsoft sold out and now is paying the heavy price. Windows 7 will expose Vista as a load of crap.
I think you're confusing a free thinker with someone who disagrees with everyone around them, as opposed to one who forms an independent judgement. Otherwise no more than 50% of the population could ever be freethinkers, a self-obvious nonsense.
All intents and purposes. Not intensive purposes.
Oh, no, I see what you're getting at. Yeah, it was wrong of me to use it as a synonym, but I can't think of another good one.
Besides, is it possible to be a free-thinker and a member of organised religion? Even if you do believe in god and decide to 'submit' to him, isn't that sacrificing any claim to being a freethinker? cf. the story of Abraham and Isaac, where Abraham is glorified for sacrificing intellectual and moral independence to god, a classic example of Nietzsche's so-called slave morality. Hardly free-thinking.
All intents and purposes. Not intensive purposes.
Install VLC.
It is free, I have yet to have it not play an MP3 or DVD. It plays most (if not all) video files. There may be some new video files that I have not played, but all the .avi, .mpg, .mov, .wmv play fine that I have tried. It works under linux, xp, vista, and OSX I believe too.
Now watch Apple, and microsoft change their video files to not work in VLC.
" Ballmer, in turn, blamed another Microsoft executive"
When I first read the summary, I read that as "Ballmer blamed another Microsoft intern". And my reaction was, "Well, that explains so much about Vista!"
Never let a lack of data get in the way of a good rant.
I think it's fair to criticise people for believing something entirely because other people happen to believe it, but isn't this also exactly how organised religion works? Why do you believe in God if it's not simply because other people, family, preachers, society, a book, etc, have told you that God exists? Do you see this as different somehow from people who don't believe in God because those around them don't?
I can see how one might come to a conclusion that there's a lot we still don't know about the universe, but I have trouble seeing how that space can be filled with the views of any particular organised religion unless it's as a direct consequence of deciding to do so based on faith.
At least from what I've heard, advocates of religion and Christianity in particular tend among the first to agree that it's based on faith and on making assumptions about things. I accept people's right to make assumptions, but where possible I personally prefer to acknowledge what I don't know and leave it at that.
Since we're waaaaay off topic anyways... You probably mean evolution through natural selection. Hopefully you'll reproduce in sufficient quantity to prove this theory is right.
Views expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the author.
So I would say that as long as the OS can run the applications the users are used to, those users could care less what the OS is.
This is exactly right! An application should not know or care what OS it is running on. A user shouldn't care either. An OS should be an interchangeable commodity software. Applications don't care what network card, or mouse, or keyboard, or hard drive, or printer you have. Neither should they care which filesystem, or desktop, or kernel version they're running on.
When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
No, it is a scientific theory.
does that mean they will now sell me a low end laptop without Windows? (Preferably with FreeDos and diagnostics, but Ubuntu would be Ok, since that is popular.)
Laughs all the way to the bank.
This is the same HP that tried to charge me $65 for a recovery CD to re-install Windows XP after a hard drive in my clients HP computer died. A recovery CD that did not come with the computer originally.
I've no sympathy at all.
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
Seriously. If HP is going to play the abused housewife to Microsoft's wife beater and they don't come up with an intervention, screw 'em.
No, I was confusing free thinking with the ability to consider alternatives in spite of the common prejudices of those around them. My understanding of free thinking originally didn't rely on disagreement just had the ability to. I apologise.
Semi-automatic amateur armchair Australian philosopher; conjecture ready at any moment...
Actually the story is about a scorpion not a snake, but the moral rings true, understand the nature of those with whom you make bargains.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
Collusion to stop the colluding! Makes perfect sense to me!
Obama needs to get involved. On his first day in office, he should issue an executive order that defines exactly what is and what isn't Vista capable. Since everyone likes Obama and agrees with him, his involvement will end this debacle once and for all to everyone's satisfaction.
While intel could flood the market with cheap "vista capable" 915 chipsets, HP could have turned around and advertised the fact that their Vista experience was much better.
Could they? Anybody with crappy ratings would just fail to publicize the fact. So, HP would be out there with a number and no one else would mention that number. It would be as useful as price-match guarantees on mattresses.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
...I'm desperately yearning to see the Year Of Regular People Getting A Fucking Clue About Computers Already.
Some kind of rant generator. Please don't feed the trolls.
If video games influenced behavior the Pac Man generation would be eating pills and running away from their problems.
Apparently one problem Asus faced with their original Linux-only Eee was that a lot of them got returned as "broken" by some dolts who tried to install MS Office and the likes on them, and concluded that the laptop is broken if they can't.
Citation? The last thing I read on this said that return rates were similar - it was MSI that got higher return rates for Linux.
They just can't catch a break since His Emperor Gates III stepped down from the Red, Green, Yellow and Blue throne. Enter the same internal bickering and power struggles that nearly destroyed IBM in the 90's. They'll pull through, we'll probably all be better off because of it, but Gates had a certain perfection in business that I'm going to miss.
Cool! Amazing Toys.
I don't see Vista used much of anywhere except in the Office Depot computer showroom.
I just got finished installing Ubuntu 8.10 to a customer's laptop (Dell Latitude D600) today. .ISO image of the drive, then put it back in his system.
Took the HD out, slipped it into an external case, plugged it into my laptop (Compaq), made a dd
Popped in the Ubuntu dvd, & told him to hit the power switch.
"If you feel you need any help, I'll be sitting right here."
The ONLY question he had was about the partition manager, and that was "If we've already backed up all my stuff, then I can just let it have the whole drive, right?"
After that, he was able to answer all the questions himself, & effectively set up his own system withOUT my help.
Once it had ejected the DVD & rebooted to the HD, he spent a few moments looking at his desktop.
Without asking, he clicked "Applications", browsed what had already been installed, noticed the "Add/Remove Programs" option, & was browsing the Synaptic repositories shortly there-after.
He figured out that clicking the little box beside the program's name meant "I'd like this", and "Apply" meant, well, to do what he'd asked.
The system grabbed the files he'd checked, and finished without a hitch.
He sat there looking at me funny & asked "Doesn't it need to, like, reboot, or something?"
"Nope. You can close out that screen, and your program will be listed in the appropriate section of the Application menu."
He closes Synaptic, checks the App menu, and is suitably impressed that, sure-enough, his programs are right there.
[Him] "Wait a minute... Don't I have to PAY for those?"
[Me] Nope, they're free. Unless you take them from the "Non Free" sections, which are clearly marked and require you to activate them before you can use them, you don't HAVE to pay for any of it. If you WANT to give them money in thanks, and it's highly recommended you do, there are usually links to the program author's website in the Help section of the program's menu bar.
[Him] What kinds of things are in the 'Non Free' sections?
[Me] Let's authorize them & I'll show you. Mostly it's things like the Adobe Flash & PDF programs, & the bits needed to play DVD's, but it's rare that a Linux program REQUIRES you to pay for it first. It's nice to give them a few bucks, though, because these are normal people, writing programs as a hobby, that people like us find useful. Like that tax software? Enjoy that game? Think that paint program is the bee's knees? Then send the Author a letter & a cheque thanking them for their efforts. You'll probably get a letter back thanking YOU for helping keep them going doing what they love.
[Him] So, what about Office docs? Can I do them?
I showed him OOo, imported a MS Doc off a USB key (my resume), & double-clicked it in the file manager.
It opened in OOo, scanned it for spelling errors, & then gave him a cursor.
He sat there smiling & said "That's good enough for me."
He found Firefox, Thunderbird, and Pidgin all on his own, and the only questions he had were how to import his email & bookmarks from his old system.
Since I had copied them to my USB key, it was a snap to move them back to the HD & show him the Import functions.
His HP PSC1315 (Printer/Scanner/Copier) worked out of the box.
Totem downloaded the needed codecs & then played the DVD he'd popped in.
And except for the video "maxing out" at 1024x768 (which he was fine with, but I would've fixed had it been my system) on the generic drivers, his system was ready-to-go without me having to DO much of anything.
Yes I realize many people have issues with hardware on the multitude of systems out there, but if it installs properly (which is a problem with ANY operating system), Linux not only CAN outshine Windows on the same hardware, it makes Windows look like a diseased pile of feces compared to a 100 carat diamond.
Oh, and the customer?
He turns 87 tomorrow & is a self described "computer idjit".
So if an "idjit" can install Ubuntu,
But if you install any hardware or software for an Apple, then the installation program will walk you through the process or just a window will pop up with "Drag application icon to applications folder icon".
In the most optimistic, user friendly case for Linux, you would have to do some dpkg --install your-app-v456-67.8736c.deb and then get 50 error messages because "libgrablewops4" not installed. An average user cannot deal with this.
You see, people don't want to think about the inner workings of an operating system or a computer not because they are stupid, but because they don't care. For ost people a computer is a tool which is used to achieve a function and not a cause in itself.
What you are advocating is not to bring ever products to a market once it is inhabited by a big player.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Hardware manufacturers can put a different OS on their wares and go to the market with that.
If MS alienates hardware houses as big as HP, do you honestly think they will be winners?
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
My relatives running Ubuntu know it will not run neither Windows or OSX software.
I make clear that unless the software is not specifically labelled as running on Linux it will not run on their computers.
I mention my relatives, because they are clueless when it comes to computing, nevertheless they can understand the issue at hand, my clients require no explanation about this because they are computer literate.
If you are having irate clients it is not Linux's fault, it is yours for not providing correct pre-sales advice.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
There are people out there making money selling Linux machines to people that are not necessarily computer literate.
People doing this *cough, cough* understand the market and that users need more hand holding, people are not as stupid as you want them to be, if you explain things for a couple of minutes they will understand that the sticker in front of the computer means pretty much nothing when it comes to the inner workings of the machine.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
The third party is called Intel.
The problem is that these companies now live in a symbiotic situation in which one can't live without the other.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Shock! Horror!
News at 11, sorry at 10, we are in the UK.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
MAYBE, but how many people "believe" in it without testing it?
(Interestingly how many "testers" falsify the results? Is that answer a belief?)
For all practical purposes most things come down to belief, and for the few that DO the tests they have to believe that they did it right and that their peers (doing the review) and sucking up.
Sam
blog.sam.liddicott.com
Shoudn'd be an operating system a piece of software aimed to take full advantage of a hardware and give easy control to the user ? Why we have here hardware companies building chipsets in a way to satisfy an operating system ? Garisan
Finally ....one big greedy company burning another. Where's my popcorn!
They don't pull this sort of crap to please someone.
Once Apple (Steve?) decides on the experience they want to provide, they stick to it.
Didn't Steve ask the RIAA companies to suck it up when they wanted to up ITune prices as well?
He wanted a sub dollar track price as part of the experience, he stuck to it.
He wanted OSX to run well on whatever they ship it with - they gave it decent hardware.
They want the IPhone to be locked no matter the unhappiness around geek circles - cos of the experience they wanted to provide to the average end user.
They stick to what they believe in - no what the "long term partner" wants.
They though PPC chips are not enough for what they wanted to show the customers, and jumped to intel.
If they think intel is not providing what they want, am sure they will jump again.
WRONG.
That evolution happens, and has happened is a scientific fact.
The exact sequence of events is the theory.
Yes, I have, and usually its self-evident based on the arguments given.
Just look at some of the anti-religious comments made on Slashdot (or most of them) -- they're knee-jerk unthought rationalizations with no real personal freedom of thought reflected at all but rather an application of anti-superstition group-think.
- Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
One could make the exact argument about organized religion. That was exactly my point about this entire thread. If a person can't at least see the possibility of that, one could argue that they may be a victim of "groupthink".
And hey, Slashdot is not the real world. In the real world, it is completely opposite, and the Slashdotters get to enjoy "knee-jerk unthought rationalizations with no real personal freedom of thought reflected at all" by good old "Christians" anytime they voice their views. So let me ask you, would you rather have it be the opposite? Or is not having the upper hand in reality still not good enough?
"But this one goes to 11!"
Well-said, and thanks. MOST people 'believe' by 'faith' most everything they deal with mentally in their day-to-day lives. They do not test, nor check the testing of the beliefs they have, and therefore its faith, whether its in Religion or Science, its faith.
- Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)