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US House Kills Proposed Delay For Digital TV Transition
An anonymous reader writes "The Digital TV transition delay bill has failed to pass the United States House of Representatives. By a vote 258 to 168 in favor of changing the date, the bill has failed as two-thirds of the votes are required for it to pass. The delay bill was once perceived as inevitable, [but the House] has now apparently made February 17th the date of transition once again. Now the question remains, will they attempt to pass it again by the deadline?"
What's the big deal, anyway? I'm wondering if I just don't understand something about how this is going down.
I sure hope he's Wesley Roberts otherwise that's a pretty obvious copy-and-paste from the article.
the idiots have solved all the real problems so they can waste time with this!
The digital signal I get is a little flaky but they are supposed to boost the signal after the switch.
...just do the cutover, get it over with. Sure, a short term pain, but I'm sick of hearing about it.
Really. Just do it already.
Probably.
Will it pass?
Probably not, unless they cram it in a popular bill.
being wasted over this is insane in my opinion.
The television is an entertainment device, nothing more. We have so much more to worry about in this country other than if someone will continue view ads on the tv when we move on from an archaic system.
Do I have this wrong? Is there something else about television that I am forgetting?
~ Ron Fitzgerald
And how long have we know this was coming? The only argument I can agree with is that by moving the date we will not have people trying to climb on their roofs in the Winter. Steep pitch + snow/ice = bad things.
Conservative, mod down for violating
The government doesn't realize that the TV companies have teams ready to go for Feb 17 and all this flip-flopping costs them money in rescheduling, etc..
Thomas says this is a rule suspension vote. It takes a 2/3 vote to suspend the rules and pass a bill. Usually this is reserved for bills that are not very controversial and have broad support.
This failure just means that the bill will have to go to the rules committee. After a rule is passed and the bill is brought up under that rule, a simple majority is all that is needed to pass the bill.
This is just a very small bump in the road to extend the deadline.
In the Houston Chronicle this morning there was an interesting blurb about the delay. Basically, the networks want to delay the switch-over because they don't want it to happen in the middle of the season. They are afraid of losing viewers (and thus advertising dollars) from people who aren't ready for DTV. They'd rather wait until spring/summer when they are airing re-runs.
Why does this take more than a simple majority? Could somebody clarify why there have to be 2/3?
The Uncoveror: It's the real news.
Lets get it over with already. The people who don't have converter boxes can just... *GASP* read a book, or do something productive instead.
So if I understand the problem correctly, they want to push back the transition date because of confusion & the backlog of coupons that have yet to be sent out.
The coupons aren't being sent out because the program was only allocated a limited amount of money and they've already sent it all out in the form of coupons. They are waiting for current coupons to expire before sending more coupons out. Well, increase funding to send the remaining requested coupons out seems like the most obvious solution to the coupon problem. I bet a majority of them end up expiring anyway, so the program would be able to return that money to congress.
So that leaves the other problem, which is confusion. People are going to be confused no matter what. They will be even more confused when the date moves. Might as well get it over with.
As for myself, I can currently watch TV via an antenna. I doubt I'll be able to after the transition, as I'm pretty far from the broadcast towers.
I live in the city of Pittsburgh, and I loose three channels (including my only ABC and CBS options) as soon as the transition happens. Additionally I purchased one of the converter boxes, and the video lags and is out of synch with the audio.
I would purchase a new box, but everyone I know with a converter box has problems with the conversion dropping lots of frames or being out of sync all the time. I though digital TV was supposed to be more not less channels, and improve the quality. My CBS picture is even nice over analog.
So I guess I would like the date to be later, but more accurately I want to know why this "great conversion experience" that I paid to prepare for is making my tv access suck.
Anyone have suggestions that don't involving spending $70 a month for five tv shows that aren't online or on itunes?
He was asking for an example of television that wasn't entertainment.
The news seems to me more about being informed than being entertained (though admittedly that might depend on the network). Plus, there's the whole emergency network broadcast stuff, like, by the way, there's a big-ass hurricane coming on Saturday and y'all better get your fannies off to higher ground, pronto, or, we've spotted a tornado touching down five miles west of town, and it's moving east -- take shelter in your basements. You know, getting the word out about big important stuff where plain old email don't cut the mustard.
Cheers,
"What in the name of Fats Waller is that?"
"A four-foot prune."
considering the Senate passed the bill unanimously, I figured it would easily make it through the House.
One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".
for the first time in 8 years I am happy with something the republicans have done in congress.
any idiot who hasn't yet gotten off their a$$ to get their TWO FREE converter boxes is too st00pid to be allowed to watch the idiot box.
The difference between Theory and Practice is greater in Practice than in Theory.
Most cool Japanese products never get here because they are convinced we are really dumb and could not understand them.
True, but at the same time I fail to see the need for anything more than a "flush" button on my toilet. (Although, now that I think about it, an air freshener button might be a good idea.)
When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
Obligatory Onion Reference:
http://www.theonion.com/content/radio_news/lazy_nation_fears_obama_will
Things you think are in the Constitution, but are not.
The widespread loss of television service could be a blessing in disguise. People might actually start to read books or interact with family members.
This transition has been communicated to everyone for a long time. Delaying it will just add to the confusion.
Looking for any old 8-bit Heathkit/Zenith software/hardware - http://heathkit.garlanger.com
As so many others have pointed out, It doesn't matter if the switchover happens 3 weeks, 3 months, 3 years, or 30 years from now - you're going to have millions of people, most of them elderly or low income, who are going to turn on their TVs and say "What's wrong with this damn thing?" They don't read the news, they have no clue the switchover is coming, and they will scream bloody murder when it does.
The ONLY way to keep that from happening would be for the U.S. government to send teams of technicians to every household in America to verify the converter boxes were installed. Even then you'd have a lot of elderly shut-ins who would call the police to arrest the "intruders" at their door.
Time to bite the bullet and switch over NOW - waiting any longer will do nothing but delay the inevitable.
Hawaii already made the switch to digital TV on January 15th. I haven't heard any newa about their state having any major problems with this transition, so why are they making a big deal about this now?
As noted, this is only a vote to suspend the rules which failed. Now the bill must go to a rules committee, then up for vote again (a majority vote will pass it).
But really, if people wake up February 17th and realize they don't have a TV to watch, three things could happen:
1) They'll do something else
2) They'll go pay $40 for their own converters (and brick and mortar stores should prep for this)
3) And because this is the United States of America, a person may do neither 1 or 2, but instead spend hundred of dollars to file a law suit.
are on the evening news yelling at their Congressmen for "taking away our TV."
I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
And by best, I mean the most politically logical. I hadn't considered the effect this would have on ad revenue during the season. Of course, that's probably because I don't follow any particular network show, and those I occasionally watch are queued in my DVR.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
Yeah, but how do you decide which one? It's a can of worms that shouldn't be opened.
The deadline will be delayed because the children who's parents are too dumb to know about the switch will not be able to watch 4 hours of tv every morning, therefore the dumb parents will have to actually play with their kids. The aforementioned parents don't want to do this.
You don't want to deprive mind-improving and stimulating tv to the children, do you?
"Really, do you think that Ad companies want a sizable chunk of their audience to not watch television?"
Do you really think that the population of people who will actually be affected by the changeover should be considered "sizable." Minuscule, maybe. Tiny, probably. Small, possibly. "sizable".... er nope.
And when you consider the income those people earn, er, don't earn, I highly doubt any advertiser will give a rat's butt about them.
If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
It's not a good reason in my opinion. If they were so concerned about a February switch, why didn't they choose the date they now want in the first place? It's just a delaying tactic.
For those who weren't familiar with rule suspension votes until now, I found this article helpful: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rules_Committee.
The funding, which was supposed to come from sales of the spectrum, ran out a long time ago. Now they must be paid for at full price.
How many prison TV are ready? February 17th may be a bad day to be a prison guard.
Doesn't congress have better things to do?
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
WTF? Don't those idiots realize if they don't delay it, there are people WHO WON'T BE ABLE TO WATCH THEIR TV? How do they expect the country to survive a blow like that? I don't know about you, but I'm stocking up on canned food and ammunition.
As the opiate of the masses, is washington worried what happens when people lose their pacifier?
Janie Crane: Without regular picture transmissions, thousands are swarming the streets, desperately buying black-market tapes from video vendors.
Mrs. Formby: We're going to go critical if we don't act soon.
Edwards: We're going to have riots out there. We should distribute emergency video players immediately!
Janie Crane: Edison... an off switch!
Metrocop: She'll get years for that. Off switches are illegal!
Voice: This is a message to the authorities. It is also an ultimatum. You have until sunset to release the detained Blanks. This morning's failures were tests. We can desolate your systems. The reason is the actions of Simon Peller. Release the Blanks or every computer in the city will be simultaneously wrecked. You have until sunset.
Mrs. Formby: My god, they could lobotomize the network. Without television, this city would be ungovernable!
Blank Dominique: Now if all those threats are for real, well, there'd be no networks, would there?
Blank Reg: No, Dom. Not if the lads do their business...
Blank Dominique: We don't have a computer, do we?
Blank Reg: No, we don't. Computers know too much.
Edwards: Chaos out there! People are in a panic, fighting for old video recordings!
Ashwell: Personally, I'd rather watch a smoke alarm.
Background: Big Time... Television! Big Time... Television! Twenty-four hours a day, day after day, making tomorrow seem like yesterday!
Blank Reg (over): This is Blank Reg, welcoming you to Big Time Television, from sunrise to sunset, filling your empty lives with mindless drek!
Bruno: Our 'bomb' is simply a program. It links all the programs of the city through the main one simultaneously. Massive overload. Goodbye everything from... Security Systems to Network 23.
Max: Well, I'll let you know if there's life after the off-switch-tch-tch.
Bruno: I already know.
Max: What I want to know is, why you want to wreck our network? Network!
Bruno: Your network, and the authorities, are mesmerizing millions into worshiping this new priesthood of the computer! Like... cave men worshiping fire! It's a false faith, Max.
[angry crowd noise]
Edison Carter: It's starting to happen. Their world's gone away. Without their TVs, what is there for them?
Edison Carter: Only one man can prevent our city being paralyzed: Simon Peller. Mr. Peller, are you prepared to negotiate to prevent this catastrophe?
Bryce Lynch: Micro-link... running... Control.
Simon Peller (on tape): My dear Miss Jones, of course I will release these people. I have no intention of risking this city or its television network.
Simon Peller: I never said that!
Simon Peller: Those Blanks will be brought to justice. They haven't heard the end of this, Carter.
Edison Carter: Oh, I think they have... Simon. Unlike the Fringes, justice here is a lot more than cash flow... or politics.
Max Headroom: What are you laugh-laugh-laughing about? Bryce just tried to kiss me! Kiss me!
Edison Carter: Well, you are irresistible.
Theora Jones: Well, thank you.
Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
Why did two-thirds of the House have to approve the measure? Why not a simple majority?
After all, it's not like they were passing a constitutional amendment or overriding a presidential veto.
If the geiger counter does not click, the coffee, she is not thick.
it's pure politics. the House republican caucus is a primary source of friction against democratic policies, and those republicans see themselves as the last finger in the dike.
thus, they're going to fight everything that comes their way until the public makes it known that this last national election meant something.
if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
Except that when going to a NTSC television, the full quality of a DVD can never be realized. Thus they ended up nearly the same effectiveness. It was much better then VHS, however.
Reserved Word.
Here in the Twin Cities, even less than 10 miles away from the big antenna farm in Shoreview, MN, many channels don't come in reliably, even with an excellent antenna/RG-8 (BEL 9913) setup. I can't wait to see what improvements in signal stability will occur when they shut off the analog, and boost the digital transmitters.
This is all going to be moot. The FCC database is being flooded with STAs providing proper notice of early shutdown pre-emptively in the face of the new legislation.
In the end, it will all be moot, because a number of stations are not even properly budgeted to continue transmitting. Most current UHF stations are going to see their electric bill drop 80% when they turn off their analog. They have no incentive to continue transmitting analog.
I scream. You scream. I assume that means we're both acquainted with the problem. We proceed.
This is about the television electronics industry being jealous of computer hardware manufactures. People were holding onto their TV sets so they decided to lobby for a forced upgrade.
Yes, the image is slightly better with digital TV. It isn't a night and day improvement. If you have found the broadcast TV lacking, you still will.
However, I don't think there should be a delay in the conversion nor do I think the government should pay for converters. Anything that gets people spending money right now is good for the economy.
Apartment buildings have multipath; I bet you had ghosting.
More importantly, the digital transmitters are not coexisting with the analog ones. The physical PBS digital frequency is 61 (the 'channel number' is 13), but will be moving back to physical channel 13 after the transition. Powers will also increase
PBS used to come in fine analog, but comes in shit digital. What will happen after the cut-over is that the digital signal will come from the same frequency and location as the analog one used to, giving a much better signal.
In short, it will improve after the cut-over to pretty much what it used to be. Which is why delays suck
I have developed a truly marvelous proof of this comment, which this signature is too narrow to contain.
The proposed 4-month delay just got a huge boost from the in-progress "economic stimulus" bill (aka "end-run wholesale spending grab"). Buried in the $825B-and-rising-fast bill is a further allocation of $650,000,000 to fund more ads and "free" converter boxes. That much free money - above and beyond what has already been allocated for ads & coupons - is motivating someone to see that this delay is as long as possible.
Can we get a "-1 Wrong" moderation option?
A lot of your problems sound like they're because most of the digital channels are running on separate transmitters, and lower power than they'll be running on after the switch.
My blog. Good stuff (when I remember to update it). Read it.
What tuner are you using? I have noticed pretty large differences in ability to demodulate a watchable signal from the same antenna in the same position between the two tuners that I have now. My flat-screen TV has an internal digital tuner which picks up about 80-90% of the digital stations in the area no matter what the antenna position is, and can get the others if I fiddle with the antenna position a little. Almost any station with a watchable signal in analog will come in with better overall quality on digital. My antenna BTW is the cheapest set of rabbit-ears they had at Fry's, no amplification or anything. I also have satellite TV, and the satellite tuner supports OTA TV, which is handy because you can use its DVR functions. The trouble is, the receiver's OTA tuner is terrible - I can get reception on maybe half of the channels, and almost all of the channels drop out constantly (the TV's tuner seems to respond better to poor signal quality than the sat receiver's tuner as well). I kinda suspect that the conversion boxes they're selling everywhere don't have the best tuners around, but it hasn't been worth the money for me to find out. Still, if you have a friend with a small tv with a built-in tuner, or maybe can buy something cheap and then return it, it might be worth a try to see if it gets better results than what you're using now.
I don't reply to ACs
delaying it is like pulling a bandaid off a wound slowly causing the pain to be prolonged and more acute, when just grabbing the bandaid and ripping it off completely gets it over with quicker, sure there is going to be some pain but you get it over with quicker and can get on when cleaning & dressing the wound with antibiotics and a fresh bandaid...
either way there is going to be some pain but what would you prefer? get it over with quicker? or prolonged and more acute pain?
Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
Using their digital I suppose...
-- $SIGNATURE
Maybe it truly is the end of the world in 2012...coincidence?
No one will be able to see it anyway, so what's the problem?
'The tyrant will always find pretext for his tyranny.' - Aesop's Fables
Basically they are suggesting that the WiMax people are lobbying Congress to delay the switch to DTV.
Their rival, Verizon, cannot deploy Verizon's 4G Long-Term Evolution wireless broadband network until the spectrum is freed up by the elimination of analog TV signals. The longer the delay, the more market penetration for WiMax, and the more trouble for Verizon.
Anyone that doesn't know its happening (and hasn't bought their box yet) deserves to loose their TV.
Rome burns as Government fails to run coupon program! 2 million now on waiting list. Government "experts" seek help from pizza industry.
Ok the pizza bit is fictional.. but they *should*.
http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/162189-DTV_Coupon_Waiting_List_Tops_2_Million.php
According to NTIA figures through Tuesday, Jan. 13, blackog stands at 2,146,455 outstanding requests.
By John Eggerton -- Broadcasting & Cable, 1/14/2009 10:02:00 PM MT
Related:
DTV Coupon Waiting List Grows Again
The DTV Countdown: Complete Coverage of the DTV Transition
As predicted, the National Telecommunications & Information Administration's (NTIA) waiting list for DTV-to-analog converter box coupons has topped 2 million coupons.
According to NTIA figures through Tuesday, Jan. 13, there are 2,146,455 outstanding requests.
NTIA had to put requests on the list after it reached its funding cap, though it can send out more coupons as existing ones expire and money is freed up.
Some 478,000 coupons have come off the waiting list since it was started Jan. 4, but with hundreds of thousands of requests coming in each day, the math doesn't work out for clearing up the backlog.
Congress is now working to free up more funding, with the transition date less than five weeks away, though Congress may change that date in light of the coupon backlog and following a request to do so from President-elect Barack Obama's transition team.
Bringing liberty to the masses. - http://freetalklive.com/
My question is... why the fscl did they plan this for February? Point to the person and I'll call them an idiot. Everything is coming back on air and there's guaranteed to be the most disruption if anything goes wrong. Why not the summer when NOTHING is on? There's no way I can believe there was any thought put into this decision.
As president of the Procrastinating Luddites of America, I say that I care! And so do hundreds or thousands of others! Maybe even more...(we haven't gotten around to compiling the membership list).
Almost nobody in this "works"/"No it doesn't" tug of war mentions how _far_ they are from the antenna farm. For me, it's a solid 40+ miles across a metro to an indoor yagi and one network's 1080 in particular can be marginal now and then weather notwithstanding. That's why I _really_ want to be done with this and see DT running full power.
How many of these politicians trawling the bottom of the barrel for populist votes really thinks another six months will do what the previous six months didn't do to get the old, the poor and the stupid up and running? Before passing an extension there should be a rider attached to the bill mandating that the TV warning commercials state something like, "Because some of you are really slow, you are holding everybody else up. You know who you are and this is your last warning."
Comcast and AT&T have both been accused of using the digital transition to push their digital services -- and both have been cutting their analog offerings as well as jacking the price up. But they've both been cutting stations and moving national-cable-network stations up to the digital-only spectrum to increase it's "attractiveness".
In two years, my local comcast offering has gone from $29 to $49, and they added a "Family Friendly" digital package at $45. Of course, I still have an option of sub-basic at $23, I think it carries about 5 broadcast stations with the rest being public access such: basically less than what I could get in 1980 without cable in an urban market.
Supposedly the FCC is launching an investigation -- it will probably be done in a couple of years...
I thought about Dish -- it was cheaper, then I found out that with their basic package, only about 10-20% were channels I would want to watch -- they carry about 10 religious-only channels and about 10-15 alternate language offerings in their basic, low-res service -- it was basically another 'family friendly' -- a new euphemism for "junk and worthless TV offerings".
Your landlord is obligated to allow you to install your own antennae for the purpose of recieving television signals. See Over-the-Air Reception Devices Rule for more information.
Because they don't have the $60?
I know of an apartment building - assisted living for the disabled.
It shares a lot with a rural clinic for CP.
There are no other public facilities within five to ten miles. No shops. Schools. Libraries. Theaters. Restaurants. Parks. Churches.
No trails. No bike paths. No trees. No gardens.
TV opens up a window to a larger world - and - even here - it can be your own world. a rare moment of privacy and choice.
You are not watching pro wrestling or the Superbowl because that is what is playing in the common room and you have nowhere else to go.
It strikes me that government has "bailed out" a lot of folks when technological change becomes urgent.
Hydro power for Appalachia and the Pacific Northwest in the Thirties, the geek tapping into subsidies for the transition to wind and solar power.
You mean Legislators did something Right??
In other news, sales of bottled water, milk, eggs and bread skyrocketed in hell today as citizens prepare for a wave of snowfall that could possibly last for weeks.
(And if anyone was wondering, apparently everyone who stocks up on eggs, milk and bread are going to try to use french toast for their entire food source...)
-=JML=-
Proceed as planned, and send $40 checks to people who submit receipts for converter boxes.. If it's cut, people will scrounge up the money.. and they have had ample warning already.
waiting for ad.doubleclick.net
To fix your analogy, this is like companies loaning you a bumper covered in ads, and now the government is telling them they have to stop offering the old shitty bumpers and offer a different design and you're pissed about buying new mounting brackets for your damn free bumpers claiming that your $3000 car is now useless because of the lack of free bumpers on the market!
Have analogies really gotten this bad around here?
Perl - $Just @when->$you ${thought} s/yn/tax/ &couldn\'t %get $worse;
So many idiots with so many fallacious arguments.
The real problem is that the converter boxes DO NOT WORK with moderate to weak signals. I'm not a babbling, speculating philosopher like so many in this thread- I'm a BSEE trying to get many people's TVs to work out in suburbia. Indoor rabbit-ear antennas work well in my area with normal analog TV.
Testing 9 different DTV converters I've found that NONE of them will find ANY reception with rabbit-ear antennas.
Outdoor, rooftop antenna with amplifier- over $100 in parts (could go to $500 in some areas) and who knows how much in installation to get a signal which still drops out sometimes.
Here's the kicker (geniuses)- it's winter- there is ice and snow on rooftops. We can't put antennas on the roof in winter. Even if we pay for this whole boondogle.
I'm a single disabled mom on food stamps. It's obvious they don't need me to watch TV and shite. I'll just keep reading, but not only is the FCC giveaway unconstitutional it further punishes poor people which is exactly how this country rolls. There is plenty of content online now, TV seems so antediluvian. Bigger ? Why didn't people know and understand the digital cliff and the necessity for antennas? I told me crew about it months and months ago when i realized i'd have to buy a new TV and said forget it and they had NO idea what i was talking about...How could people be so clueless and how could the gov't drop the ball on the coupons? Can we not do ANYTHING properly in this country since ffrakking Bush?!
We read. It's free. Makes my kids smarter too!
The creation of the coupon program was largely the result of industry pressure---they're worried that some number of people who use only over-the-air TV will disappear after their current equipment stops working, and never return, thereby harming viewership numbers. This was a particular concern of networks like Univision.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
YES! YES!!! Thank you House!
...mainly because I expect to see some Representative or Senator, with no hint of irony or sense of shame, offering an unrelated amendment to that bill
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
Maybe this will be the final solution to those hold outs to finally realize there is more to life than watching the lobotomy box. I haven't watched TV for over 10 years. I get all my news from the Internet, broadcast and short wave radio. The only reason I have a TV at all is to use it as a monitor for my DVD player.
"I bow to no man" - Riddick
I doubt that there are really 6.5 million households out there that won't have any TV in two weeks. I think many, MANY technologically illiterate people who have cable TV are being suckered into thinking they need a converter. There are many predatory outfits out there hocking converter boxes under false pretenses. This is the sort of thing you just need to do as quick as possible. Rip it off like a band-aid. That way everyone who legitimately needs a converter will KNOW they need one, and they can be taken care of. And millions of confused consumers who don't really need one won't be dropping federal vouchers for unnecessary hardware.