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New Laser System Targets Mosquitoes
An anonymous reader writes "In the Cold War the so-called 'Star Wars defense system' proposed using lasers to destroy incoming Soviet missiles. In a 2007 brainstorming session aimed at combating malaria, Dr. Lowell Wood, the architect of that system, proposed modifying his original idea to kill mosquitoes. The cover of today's Wall Street Journal contains an article that highlights this initiative as well as a few others, like using a giant flashlight to disrupt mosquitoes' vision and using the insects to vaccinate, in the war against malaria. The system is intelligent enough to avoid noncombatants like humans and butterflies and can even tell the difference between females, the blood-drinkers, and males. My favorite quote: 'We'd be delighted if we destabilize the human-mosquito balance of power.'"
Everyone else got hit by lasers?
...but where are you supposed to keep the sharks?
I would be delighted if this wasn't the best thing we got out of yet another multibillion dollar Republican boondoggle.
Next time you guys want to bitch about the defecit, just look at what your military boondoggles contribute to it.
I'm a little concerned by this. Suppose you disrupt the vision of mosquitoes. If it turns out to have permanent effects on the mosquitoes, they'll be easy prey for predators. Fewer mosquitoes... but then perhaps fewer predators, or more pressure on other potential prey. Suddenly other species go unchecked or apex predators have less food because that ecological niche filled by mosquitoes is empty. Am I the only one who thinks that humans need to stop fucking around the with the order of things and deal with it? Finding a cure for malaria (in our own bodies, which we're at liberty to fuck with) makes a lot more sense than disrupting ecosystems that were doing perfectly fine before we came along.
Scientists point out problems, engineers fix them
altslashdot.org: The future of slashdot.
TFA is a bit thin on details, I wonder how the performance of this system compares to one of the numerous CO2+odor attractant trapping systems already in use. Frickin lasers(pew pew pew) are certainly cooler; but the whole exercise is rather silly if a simple mechanical system that runs on propane and pheromones is more efficient.
I saw lasers and thought they were going to affix lasers to the heads of small mouth bass. Then the bass kill the mosquitoes that are on top of the water and flying over it.
They say it only hits mosquitoes, can the laser b used to also hit those little nats that also bite? And what if the software has a bug (not intended pun) and targets every flying insect? Are the cooked insects safe for insect eating animals to eat?
And where can I get one?!
Talk about a solution in search of a problem. So let me understand this. We are going to go into 3rd world countries and install autonomous flying drones that zap bugs with on board lasers? Isn't there perhaps a cheaper solution?
When did they get good enough to hit the warheads? Did the press stop covering the testing when they started showing some success? I just haven't heard of a big "star wars" defense system test that succeeded.
Think Deeply.
Standing water in your backyard can serve as a breeding ground for mosquitoes, so we advise installing at least a few sharks.
I look forward to meeting our newly evolved laser resistant mosquito overlords.
I want one in my back yard. Could be really entertaining.
Seriously, in my area we have bats, and mosquitoes aren't much of a problem.
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
Remember the movie Real Genius? We in NH, would need something that size to unload our Mosquitos. They get big enough up here to carry you off.
"So, ten out of ten for style, but minus several million for good thinking, huh?"
If the geiger counter does not click, the coffee, she is not thick.
Is this new?? I've seen this movie here the first time in 2005 or something!: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSIWpFPkYrk
If you read David Brin's "Earth", you will note that there is an explanation of how "Star Wars" technology was modified to control infestations of africanized bees(killer bees) in local apiaries. The book was published in May of 1991.
The premise was that honey bees flapped their wings at a lower frequency. Targeting the higher frequency enabled the device to precisely target only the invading killer bees.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSIWpFPkYrk
y'know....
generally, every life form slots in somewhere in the ecosystem "in balance" - it either keeps something else from overrunning the place (rabbits becoming a pest in Australia due to lack of predators), or is, say, a food supply for something else (rabbits in places where there ARE predators)
what I want to know is, is there such a slot for the mosquito? what "purpose" do they serve? are they a food supply for anybody, or do they just make life miserable for everything else? would there be problems for the ecosystem if the mosquito becomes extinct? because if there isn't, I can't think of a better candidate for extermination than the mosquito. if we could get rid of them, would they be the first species humanity exterminated AND made the world a better place by doing so?
(yes, i know, it's gonna take a LOT of laser-shooting robot drones to rid the planet of 'em... hrm, maybe that's how skynet REALLY comes about :-)
With my Zimbabwen $1000000000 bill. I think that puts the price scale about in line with SDI
Since when were the humans non-combatant in this?
Sounds like a very American attitude...
Max.
As I see it this could serve two purposes at once. The first one has already been stated in taking care of mosquitoes. The other would be if this system were deployed in key locations, we could turn every marsh and swamp in the world into techno/rave hot-spots, thus taking care of another issue I currently have! Brilliant!
"Quote me as saying I was mis-quoted." -Groucho Marx
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ki4JKy4XkC4
As much as I can't stand mosquitos, I can't help but think that this is an overengineered solution. Instead, they should built mosquito traps which rely on the mosquito's attraction to carbon dioxide and warmth.
They might be cheaper and easier to develop.
It's always good to eradicate mosquitoes where people live. Pumping more CO2 into the air might not be the best way to do it. Draining swamps has been damaging in unintended ways too. Sterile male techniques show promise. Never forget that less than a hundred years ago, mosquitoes used to kill tens of thousands of people at a time in cities like New Orleans.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Seriously, the populace would be far better served by figuring out what indigenous creatures prey on the mosquitoes, and encouraging their habitat. If there aren't any, carefully try an introduction of bats / birds. Careful meaning "find out if they like to eat anything else that doesn't spread malaria."
Around here in the US, you can actually buy "bat boxes" that come with instructions on finding the best location. You have to leave it up for a couple months, but eventually, bam, you've got your own personal furry little mosquito vacuum...and they are damned efficient at it.
That would be the smart solution, but instead, we have local/city/state governments spewing chemicals into the air...
Please help metamoderate.
"We'd be delighted if we destabilize the human-mosquito balance of power. Yes gentlemen, we're on the way in and no one can bring us back. For the sake of our country and our way of life, I suggest you get the rest of our sharks in after them, otherwise we will be totally destroyed by mosquito retaliation. My boys will give you the best kind of start, fourteen hundred megawatts worth, and you sure as hell won't stop them now. So let's get going. There's no other choice. God willing, we will prevail in peace and freedom from fear and in true health through the purity and essence of our natural fluids. God bless you all."
Then he hung up. We're still trying to figure out the meaning of that last phrase.
Raise more dragonflies. Dragonflies eat mosquitoes.
Of course, if we would drain all the pools at foreclosed homes, that would have a significant impact as well.
Granted, if you're in the south where there are thousands of acres of swamp land, you might have a problem breeding enough dragonflies to make a dent in the mosquito population.
Then again, bats are wonderful eaters of mosquitoes. For those who have the room, bat boxes will provide an invitation for bats to do their work. As most bats don't come out until sundown, there will be no interference with your enjoyment of your yard during the day while at night, you can watch and cheer them on as they devour those annoying mosquitoes.
We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
In a 2007 brainstorming session aimed at combating malaria, Dr. Lowell Wood, the architect of that system, proposed modifying his original idea to kill mosquitoes.
There are 2 morals to this little story:
1: Who the fuck invites anti ballistic missile system developers to brainstorming sessions on how to fight malaria?
2: If the only tool you know how to use is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.
Deleted
I wonder how the performance of this system compares to one of the numerous CO2+odor attractant trapping systems already in use.
My folks have two- and despite that, they still have tons of mosquitoes and the traps take weeks to fill up.
They have $$$ odor cartridges that last barely a week or two, the traps are really gross to empty (and usually full of really angry, hungry mosquitoes), you have to go to the hardware store often to fill the tanks, people steal the machines (they're expensive), the traps are ridiculously unreliable (they don't like getting wet...the idiots used exposed circuit boards and freakin' PC COMPUTER FANS). Nevermind they're burning LNG/propane 24x7 and use at least 30W-40W of electricity; not exactly enlightened from a climate/environmental perspective these days.
If you don't like mosquitoes, build/buy some bird and bat shelters and put 'em up.
Please help metamoderate.
No, just the squirrels.
I personally welcome our new intelligent laser wielding overlords.
Sewage Treatment Facilities - "Our duty is clear."
Given their high breeding rate, anything short of 100% extermination will mean mosquitoes that are immune to lasers within 10-20 years.
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
Of course surrounding your lair with a water filled moat might not be the best idea if you are wanting to get rid of mosquitoes.
I know a guy who owns property in rural Alaska (a very swampy area), and in summer the mosquitos are terrible. He has been experimenting with the propane powered mosquito traps, and has found that he can't leave them out overnight. The problem? They catch so many mosquitos that the trap fills up and causes the whole thing to burn up.
His solution so far has been to run 3 of them at once for short periods of time during the day when he can periodically empty them.
I'm not sure how much propane they use, but he has also complained about that. Since he has to fly it all in, and propane bottles aren't the most efficient use of weight/space in a plane. I also wonder about the environmental effects of using those on a large scale. How much C02 do they actually produce?
1. Capture.
2. Sterilize.
3. Release.
4. Repeat as necessary until population has crashed.
is invent a violent video game for mosquitoes, then they'll wipe themselves out in knife fights.
Nullius in verba
It works about 50% of the time if you know exactly when and where the mosquitoes are at the time of the attack.
How come I associate blood-sucking insects with that pitifully poor insurers' executives?
Methinks I would like to also be a Darth Vader of this product lasers having, and get Medieval with them.
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
Ichigeki Sacchuu!! Hoihoi-san
I could see it being taken as a joke- but I'm serious.
Anything with a high breeding rate will suffer 99.9% losses- the remaining .1% will be partially resistant to the problem and replace itself in a single breeding season. Even within days for bacteria.
If you cant' get 100%, it's better to pass.
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
Google for "national debt". Compare the Republican years with the Democratic years. (For those who are too lazy, US national debt decreased yearly from WW II until Reagan hit in 1980. He doubled it, Bush I increased it some more, and it leveled off under Clinton. Bush II doubled or tripled it. Obama is going to increase it, but mostly to repair the damage done by Bush II.)
If social contracts level off the national debt and Star Wars and Iraq (twice) increase it, I'm all in favor of social contract spending.
Infuriate left and right
Mark my dark, cynical, Orwellian words... You do not, n o t, want Pharmaceutical companies, NGO's and the "unnamed whomever else", to broach the technology of using insects to deliver vaccines. It takes little imagination to envision, how swarms of biological creatures carrying, already dubious, chemical formulations for "wet injection" into human beings, could go terribly, terribly wrong. Let's focus on the happy-go-lucky, devil-may-care, flying cars and 50% efficient solar; and leave the technologies of the technocrat-demon-overlords, in the adjacent Blade Runner-like dimensions, mmmmmkay?
You don't live in a big city,do you...
Think of the foxes, barn owls and red kites.
Deleted
... welcome our new laser-resistant mosquito overlords, bound to appear via natural selection.
Attitudes make the difference between Space and Time: we want to MAX our temporal, and MIN our spatial extension.
http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=Mosquito&btnG=Search+Images&gbv=2
http://www.michigan.gov/deq/0,1607,7-135-3313_46123_24554-68318--,00.html
Is that they include a bunch of speculative technologies, but completely fail to mention ones which are already proven to work and which are already available.
Deleted
So you simply don't care if the US is bankrupted and rendered insolvent, you just want a say in how its done, presumably to "feel safe."
Rather selfish.
I hope everyone realizes that inflation will pay a major role in funding unfundable fantasies, wiping the savers and the middle class out. The problem is, that other countries are growing tired of making our federal reserve notes worth something by buying our debt as treasuries. You talk about spending, but in order to "get what YOU want" you will sell debt to potential economic and military adversaries?
Real bright. What's really sad is that despite David Walker being an authority on these issues, people refuse to even watch him and listen to what he is saying.
First off, evolution isn't magic. The scenario you're describing assumes that some mosquitos could survive this weapon today. If we get away from the "one breeding season" assumption and allow a longer timeframe, it still assumes that a solution is within the range of biological adaptation, which is not a sure thing.
So the odds are we're not moving toward "laser-proof" mosquitos any moreso than we have bullet-proof deer running around. You might get mosquitos that evade the targeting system -- females that beat their wings like males, or individuals that present a profile that looks more like a butterfly to the computer. And if so... then you're back where you started, having played out a temporary repreive from the mosquito problem.
In other words, it's only better to pass if the adaptation in the mosquitos actually makes the problem worse.
"Can't be wiped out by lasers" isn't worse in the context that your alternative is to not wipe them out with lasers anyway.
The basic issue is that you have a laser system capable of reaching down into the atmosphere to kill things close to or on the ground. There are two basic problems:
1) That takes a LOT of power. If refueling the original star wars system was likely to be a problem, this is a million times worse.
2) Theoretically such a system could be revised to hit other targets. Who would control it? Suppose terrorists hacked it. Suppose the military co-opted it. All manner of bad things could happen with such a system. For example, imagine if you could blind even a small fraction of New Yorkers, especially those driving on the roads on rush hour.... The effect might be far worse than 9/11.....
I smell a cover for a new more powerful and destabilizing weapons platform in space. The thing simply can't be useful against mosquitos and the only real use I can see would be on the battlefield.
LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
"Anything with a high breeding rate will suffer 99.9% losses- the remaining .1% will be partially resistant to the problem and replace itself in a single breeding season."
Of course, a mechanism for resistance has to be available for this to happen. It is rather difficult to imagine how a mosquito could become "resistant" to a laser - it can hardly evolve into being transparent, or fully reflective.
The only avenue for "resistance" would be to cease to be attracted to humans, and thus not be in the area where the laser system is running. That sounds like a win-win for both humans and mosquitoes.
www.eFax.com are spammers
Ahh, that old Republican saying, "I've got mine, jack"
Well I've got mine too (including healthcare), but I'm not willing to sell the rest of my countrymen out to save a little money on taxes.
You made up the 60% tax rate, as we are nowhere near it, nor will we be.
If you think it's ok for someone to work 40 hours a week only to die of a preventable illness in abject poverty, then the Republican party is probably for you. It's not for me.
I care about you, even if you couldn't care less about me.
But considering that American businesses find themselves unable to grapple with the absurd cost of healthcare, it's actually in both of our interests for us to take care of the problems that you have ignored for decades.
and turn a news article about a mosquito killing laser into a Democratic vs Republican argument.
This system is sold years a go, back in the 90'ties.
Its called the Starwars Musquito Defense System.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGkPMZxWPpA
-MX
Old. English version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSIWpFPkYrk
"I'm not much interested in interoperability. I want substitutability. I want to be able to throw your software out."
Hey...since we don't have that much of a malaria problem in the US, I can thing of one REALLY good alternate use for this system...targeting all the CCTV cameras around town. Especiallly the stupid redlight and speed cameras.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
I would think these 'star wars' devices would be set up by well know spawning areas, or around villages. Yea, doesnt make sense to create a satellite for targeting these pesky little insects.
Go go Gadget Nailgun!
US national debt decreased yearly from WW II until Reagan hit in 1980. He doubled it, Bush I increased it some more, and it leveled off under Clinton. Bush II doubled or tripled it. Obama is going to increase it, but mostly to repair the damage done by Bush II.
Yeah, because we all know that the President has complete and final budget-setting powers, right? Who controlled Congress under Reagan again?
Well if you're going to be a self important pendant maybe you could log in too. I did. That's right. I'm the REAL Anonymous Coward.
Circle of life being what it is flying mosquitos may not feed many bats..
But larva feed Dragonflys and Fish in spades
April is in the air people... And my big toe is telling me that April, just like the mosquito, will be in the air for the forseeable future.
Now I can't get an image of Tina Fey wielding lasers out of my head.
Thank you very much.
thegodmovie.com - watch it
You're a fool and a coward. No wonder you posted as AC.
At least the children of the military-industrial complex managers who have to find new markets now that the administration doesn't want to fund Star Wars any more.
The children in poor tropical countries? Now that would be a totally different subject. They would need cheap mass market solutions but where's the money in that?
thegodmovie.com - watch it
Not to mention, the espionage capabilities of system capable fo targetting a mosquito from space would be quite impressive.
But otherwise, what of human safety issues? I think there are plenty of those sorts of issues with this sort of system.
LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
Yeah, because we all know that the President has complete and final budget-setting powers, right? Who controlled Congress under Reagan again?
Exactly. And who controlled congress during the Clinton years?
Clinton is getting way more credit than he deserves for the balanced budget, which the Republican congress voted for and passed.
The Urban Legend goes something like, "2 Post Grad students from Florida got a grant from NASA to build a Prototype Laser Tracking Device for Satellites. Both students got the same idea, the only thing small enough that was random enough for what was required were mosquitoes. After much work, and hardship, the students got the device to track the bugs, without burining them up. Then the students decrease the power of the laser just enough to only burn the wings off the critters." Folks in New Orleans at the time thought that such a device would be great in their backyard, right up to the point that their eyes would be forfeit if the laser nailed them also. I don't know if the story was true or not, but if the lasers could be adjusted so that you had different colors in a random pattern, what a cool show in your backyard you would have, right up until you nailed by the laser.
Hypothetical scenario where it is disadvantageous to use such a device:
The targeting system fails for mosquitoes who fly fast and are translucent.
Result:
Future generations of mosquitoes are fast and really damn hard to see. You won't know if it's your itchy rash that's acting up again, or if it's time to slap on some deet. And forget about the notion of "keep moving to stay bite-free" next time you're in a marsh.
The proper way of dealing whit mosquitoes in an urban area is to destroy all static water recipients. Mosquitoes use these recipients to put their eggs and reproduce. Destroying this will kill all mosquitoes in a matter of weeks.
I know this because in my town (Santa Cruz â" Bolivia) we have a dengue http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dengue epidemic. the government declared that one day all citizens went to their homes and clean all water recipients like old tires etc.
I think shiny mosquitos will have other, bigger problems.
Now if this system were installed in every swamp, birdbath, and outhouse as well as all other predators removed, we might see something interesting.
Well if you're going to be a self important pendant
Flavor Flav, is that you?
April 1st ??
Do not bank towards laser and expose remaining compound eye
There is no right to feel safe thru security vaudeville at the expense of everyone's freedom, privacy and tax money.
http://xkcd.com/382/
Squirrels are more fun to zap.
Um, I'm not a republican.
You see the world as a sports game.
I see the issues one by one and try to solve the problems, not crowd behind politicians and thier respective platitudes.
For me, with all the taxes I pay, is closing in on 60%. Ever hear of AMT? Add that to living in bankrupt California. I really like how you tell me how my child's debt should look like and how much taxes I pay.
If you think its ok to lie to 300 million people about being able to "take care of them" without even being honest about what that care would look like, then being an idiot is for you.
Again, you already have over 50% of the budget on medicare, medicaid, welfare, workfare and social security. Good job on that one, its working great.
You're a fool and a coward. No wonder you posted as AC.
I suppose then the converse must be true then.
Thats like saying some Hiroshimans are now resistant to atomic weapons.
Mosquitoes are not just annoying mallaria delivery machines. They also pollinate flora - considering that the bees are having a tough time, we are in danger of losing a major resource that could potentially decimate countless species.
I hate this shit with corporations trying to kill off everything as much as possible in order to sell us more patented shit.
Again conflating social security trust fund - taxed and paid for seperately - with the general budget. As if raiding the social security trust fund makes it so.
At least you are honest enough to admit that you couldn't care less about anyone but yourself and your family.
Don't worry, you will see what the solutions (or at least the best we can come up with) to these problems look like soon enough.
We are tired of paying more for health care per person than any other country in the world while achieving 3rd world results.
Change is coming.. and if that sounds too much like a politician for you.. guess what. I voted for the guy who said it.
+5 Funny
Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
The effect might be far worse than 9/11.....
As bad as 9/11 times 1000?
Well, by 1996, chernobyl Voles who have only an annual breeding rate were showing adaption to radiation and proliferating in large numbers.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E0CE7D61439F934A35756C0A960958260
And then there is the fungus that uses radiation like plants use sunlight.
http://www.scienceagogo.com/news/20070422222547data_trunc_sys.shtml
Then there are the innumerable plants and grasses that *require* a major fire in order to reproduce.
--
So, no. It's more like saying ".1% survived some kind of interaction with the laser system long enough to reproduce". Those descendants almost all have that factor and may now tune it with each generation to be stronger. It could be they were at the fringe of the laser, or extreme range, or as others pointed out they fool the targeting system.
I thought I was being clear that you can't develop resistance if you have 100% fatality. But I'm certain that some of the survivors of hiroshima that reproduced survived because they were slightly more resistant to radiation-- just like the Voles above.
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
> The basic issue is that you have a laser system capable of reaching down into the atmosphere to kill things close to or on the ground. There are two basic problems:
The first being, I really don't think anyone is suggesting we nuke mosquitoes from orbit. I mean, that would be really cool, and if they do it that way I hope I get a chance to see it in action. I can just imagine the gentle sparkle of flaming mosquitoes lighting up the twilight sky over Khartoum. It would be a tourist attraction.
But, reading the article, they talk about must shorter distances, like, say, across the room. Although disappointing, this kind-of solves the power problem, and the hijacking problem, and the destabilizing weapons platform in space problem. (We'll leave that last one to the Chinese.)
I don't have an opinion about blinding commuters from space, except to say the view from space is pretty much straight down, so you'd have to get a bunch of commuters to all look up at the same time. But if you could do that, blinding them would be redundant.
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
Is there also one for relatives, I would love to try this on my mother in law, can't wait until it is on the market. I can already see howto's on how to kill your mother in law "by accident"
Look, you can break my back to force me to "need" a federal government that is turning this country into a police state and turn it into a quasi-socialist lie, but I will put up a fight. I have kids to educate and feed, and the stuff you sell (which is failing to various degrees everywhere else as implemented) is simply forcing a culture of failure on a once great, libertarian free country.
I will not be complacent with your "change," and there will be a point where civil war will become an option. See how hard you can push before you get it - like I say, I'm paying well over half my pay in taxes.
"your" plan will not work, its not fundable, you have to destroy the currency to fund it, and its really as simple as this: if you fund this insanity by borrowing from your economic and military adversaries you are not fit to administrate society. Rome fell. Kings who mis-manged their treasuries all fell. Every example of unhinged spending leads to the same result: systemic collapse.
So let's shoot to kill all the females but just knock the nads off the males to make em sterile.
Ah, that explains all those bacteria that are resistant to iodine, peroxide and who pretend to shiver in an ironic tone when you boil the little friggers in an autoclave.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
> You might get mosquitos that evade the targeting system --
Most likely by avoiding people[1], since that's where these things would be deployed. Uhm, do you see a problem with that?
[1] Mosquitos mostly prey on wild animals anyway, so avoiding people could be a very effective strategy.
Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
I think you will find that if you pick up a gun to subvert democracy, I will pick up a gun to stop you.
It's not my fault that California's government has been horribly mis-managed. I live in Texas and pay nowhere near 50% of my salary goes to taxes.
And I'm not suggesting we raise your taxes. Unless you make of $250 k a year neither is Obama. If you do make more than that I find your working stiff attitude more than a little disingenuous.
You can do your best to turn America in to a 3rd world shit-hole like India if you want. I will oppose you at the ballot box like I did in 2008.
> But I'm certain that some of the survivors of hiroshima that reproduced survived because
> they were slightly more resistant to radiation-- just like the Voles above.
Most of the people who died in the Hiroshima bombing were not killed by the nuclear radiation.
Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
I am not a biologist, but I believe I've run across enough claims through shows like Nova, Discovery channel, etc that state they have researched the effect of removing significant numbers of mosquitoes and that the probability of significantly affecting other parts of the food chain are low.
Can anyone corroborate this?
Exactly.
In other news, a marketing spoof on musquito laser defense:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSIWpFPkYrk
Hivemind harvest in progress..
I think they're going about this all wrong. I think they should genetically engineer the mosquitos to become an "natural" means to inoculate against disease. Beginning with Malaria (ironic, in a sense). No need to get a flu shot, the mosquitos will take care of that for you. Measles, smallpox or diptheria vaccine due? How about tetanus? Sit outside for a few hours.
What could go wrong?
We're not necessarily trying to kill all the mosquitos ON EARTH, just the .000001% within say 5m of a human. I'd position a little point-defense laser turrent in my room while I sleep if it existed. Especially since I live in the first world and can easily afford electricity to run it.
On the off-chance laser-resistant (reflective/ablative skin??) mosquito stumbles into and out of the kill zone alive, it still has to compete with the other 99.999% of mosquitos who didn't get in here.
Now how come everybody forgot to meme that ?
And there we are, you would want to have a civil war to get your way and force your system on my already tax paying law abiding ass. And as far as no new taxes for those under 250k, its a lie, the tax is called inflation, which is set to begin just about now that the chinese wont want our worthless treasuries to fund your fantasy.
Two years ago on Agriculture faculty in Belgrade my colleagues an I tested lasers on insects. We used different wavelength and power and I must said that result were astonishing! System like this very easy can change pesticides and cover large area without afraid that people or animal can be hurt. For spreading laser beam we used hi speed step motors.
You are the one who threatened a civil war.
Not that some jerk blowing smoke up our ass on slashdot is much of a threat...
So now inflation is a tax - great. You numbers don't add up so you change the formula.
How much inflation do you think is going to come from the cost of oil quadroupling as soon as the economy comes back?
Is that inflation a tax too? Are you generally full of shit and blowing smoke up our ass to justify not paying taxes?
You guys bitch more about paying taxes than you do about the immoral wars and military boondoggles that our taxes fund.
YOUR numbers don't add up. There is a 59 trillion dollar hole. AIG 150 billion here, TARP 350 billion there. 800 billion for a highly dubious stimulus package. Another one on the way. 59 trillion hole in the balance sheet IGNORED. China saying they aren't going to buy treasuries, Clinton clamoring to find buyers now. 3.6 trillion dollar budget, potential military action on Mexico, Iran still a "terrorist state" at the behest of the AIPAC, spending up, dollar about to fall, inflation over time since Breton Woods extemely easy to document, yet, you question me when your numbers (the Federal Government numbers) simply don't add up to the point where if the US-GOV was a company it would be insolvent.
How dare I question what you are going to do to the purchaing power of my savings because you want to recklessly spend and try to maintain and American empire and garuntee a standard of living, and you don't even want to build a power plant to do it ?
You are an unhinged maniac. Meanwhile, Chainman Obama's tax doging Treasury Secretary has 17 unfilled positions, the Treasury Dept. isnt even functioning at this point.
As I recall, Al Gore had to cast the tie-breaking vote in one of those budgets.
I should point out that "we don't know of any dire consequences" suggests both "alright, git'r done" and "whoa, let's look at this carefully before we act."
Here's a relevant phenomenon that I recommend meditating on: personal overestimation by incompetents.
How much inflation do you think is going to come from the cost of oil quadroupling as soon as the economy comes back?
Ah. Thats it then, demand caused the oil prices, not speculation or currency issues. Right, you know what you are talking about.
Meanwhile, the economic stimulus included no nuclear power plants or research into fusion and no real changes to how power is generated here to stop the dependancy on foreign oil.
We can build nuclear power plants in India, but not here. Italy and Sweden are building plants now. But we have to sit here and spend like drunks, continue to feed the middle-east with oil capital and this is CHANGE?
Man, your coolaid has to have lysergic acid diethylamide in it. Good stuff.
But even Learly said: Think for yourself, question authority. You clearly are incapable of questioning authority, and that is Obama, Pelosi and Reid right now. Good, give the carte blanche and see where we end up.
I think you will find that if you pick up a gun to subvert democracy, I will pick up a gun to stop you.
We have a constitutional republic. A democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting to eat a sheep. Also a constitutional republic isn't about using a barely-majority or a plurality to stuff your (un-fundable disastrous) crap down the disenfranchised other-half's throat.
And with Eric Holder in charge, you won't have that gun much longer.
Your arbitray expension of "general welfare" is not only unconstitutional, it may very well lead to a serious conflict on the issue.
I missed the animal farm / more equal than others clause in the constitution.
Here is a debate on general welfare and how stuff like this came to pass, but was clearly no intended by the authors of the document of root law.
In Federalist No. 41, James Madison asked rhetorically: "For what purpose could the enumeration of particular powers be inserted, if these and all others were meant to be included in the preceding general power?" (In reference to the general welfare clause)
So strongly did the founders believe that "general welfare" wouldn't be expanded as written:
In Federalist No. 84, Alexander Hamilton indirectly confirmed Madisons point. (That the "general welfare" clause was "clearly" nota free pass for government)
Hamilton argued that a bill of rights, which many were clamoring for, would be not only unnecessary, but dangerous. Since the federal government was given only a few specific powers, there was no need to add prohibitions: it was implicitly prohibited by the listed powers. If a proposed law a relief act, for instance wasnt covered by any of these powers, it was unconstitutional.
"why declare that things shall not be done which there is no power to do? Why, for instance, should it be said, that the liberty of the press shall not be restrained when no power is given by which restrictions may be imposed?"
Hamilton goes on to argue that making Amendments (eg, enumerating Free speech, press and assembly) and enumerating the 'right' would have the following effect:
(A bill of rights) "would furnish, to men disposed to usurp, a plausible pretence for claiming that power that is, a power to regulate the press, short of actually shutting it down. "
"With respect to the words 'general welfare,' I have always regarded them as qualified by the detail of powers (enumerated in the Constitution) connected with them. To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphosis of the Constitution into a character which there is a host of proofs was not contemplated by its creators." --James Madison [The US Supreme Court has found the meaning of "general welfare" in the Constitution to be much more elastic than did Mr. Madison. But as the "author of the Constitution," what does he know?]
James Madison, when asked if the "general welfare" clause was a grant of power, replied in 1792, in a letter to Henry Lee,
If not only the means but the objects are unlimited, the parchment [the Constitution] should be thrown into the fire at once. [6] [p.257]
Closing with: ...--The Declaration of Independence
"...We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it...it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government , and to provide new Guards for their future security.
I guess some are more equal than others.
It's pretty clear that you are the unhinged lunatic here.
The deficit is being temporarily ignored because if we can't rescue the economy we are all screwed.
I see complaints about Clinton in Obama in your fanatical rant.
Funny how you left out any mention of Republican Geoge W Bush... Well not funny.. more like par for the course for a head in the sand "conservative"
Please remind yourself whose mess we are cleaning up here.
Inflation is a fact of life. I don't like defecits, but our economy is in the toilet we have bigger problems to fix.
What good is a balanced budget in a country with a shattered economy?? Is that even possible?
While you do your best to ignore the obvious and blame a trend that has existed since well before you were born on the guy cleaning up your President's mess, I will just point out the obvious.
You used to be able to buy a meal for a nickel and a car for $300. Is that Clinton and Obama's fault too?
You are full of shit and your arguments are disingenuous at best.
It's pretty clear that you are the unhinged lunatic here.
Sorry, its you who are the liar and the misinformed here. And voilent and grabby.
The deficit is being temporarily ignored because if we can't rescue the economy we are all screwed.
Wrong, monetizing failures causes more. Japan showed us this for decades. But hey, you think you can fix a problem DECADES in the making with a quick fixer-upper, you are screwed in the head.
I see complaints about Clinton in Obama in your fanatical rant.
My complaints are with the federal government since Breton Woods. And you STILL didn't listen to David Walker, a clinton appointee and former head of the GAO. This isnt about fucking political parties, moron.
Funny how you left out any mention of Republican Geoge W Bush... Well not funny.. more like par for the course for a head in the sand "conservative"
He has a massive role in creating the fiscal issues faced today. Obama's programs will make this many many times worse and coopt future generations with a crushing debt load. Show me a single federal budget that was less than the previous. If this 3.6T budget goes, its never coming back barring systemic collapse.
Please remind yourself whose mess we are cleaning up here.
The United States Federal Government, The United States Federal Reserve, and the banks which were enabled to continue down wreckless paths by a quasi government agency known as the Federal Reserve whose actions are not subject to congress and whose members are unelected.
Inflation is a fact of life. I don't like defecits, but our economy is in the toilet we have bigger problems to fix.
Every inflationary road taken in history ends in collapse. Keynesian policies are widely regarded as no longer workable.
What good is a balanced budget in a country with a shattered economy?? Is that even possible?
Under what authority does the federal government derive the POWER to make the economy work? I'm curious about this.
While you do your best to ignore the obvious and blame a trend that has existed since well before you were born on the guy cleaning up your President's mess, I will just point out the obvious. You used to be able to buy a meal for a nickel and a car for $300. Is that Clinton and Obama's fault too? You are full of shit and your arguments are disingenuous at best.
What you don't take into account here is the relative percentages of people's wealth (both net and gross) and the costs of owning and maintaining houses, cars, standards of living.
Inflation via defecit spending is going to make it such that you will be paying a lot more by percentage of your income to maintain a given standard of living.
Your arguments are so poorly thought out and seek to blame "republicans" its really simply laughable.
You cant spend your way out of a hole buster if the creditors (e.g. China) start telling you they won't buy. Its simple. Now America starts to have to collaterize the debt with assets. We will be selling off chunks of American assets to back the new debt.
One day, it may even be necessary to sell alaska back to Russia because no one will take greenbacks to prop up a failing version of a modern Rome.
Sooo...in the middle of summer would I be able to go into my backyard, strike up a big fat dooby, put on some Pink Floyd and enjoy the lights?
First off, evolution isn't magic. The scenario you're describing assumes that some mosquitos could survive this weapon today. If we get away from the "one breeding season" assumption and allow a longer timeframe, it still assumes that a solution is within the range of biological adaptation, which is not a sure thing.
You're killing me here. You're telling me that my plan to breed puppies that are nigh invulnerable, incredibly strong, or have the ability to teleport by placing litter after litter of them inside small air tight boxes that are then crushed by hydraulic presses isn't going to work? But I've already been through so many trial generations! It would be such a waste (of puppies) to give up now.
The enemies of Democracy are
Well, I can't remember all of the steps, but somewhere just before '????' and 'Profit!' is a step involving gorillas freezing to death.
Down With Slashdot BETA!!! I've been around the corner and seen the oliphant; you can only abuse me from your perspecti
illogical argument overload. at least you admitted Bush's responsibility for the current crisis.
Though you would have preferred he sat back an watched the financial system burn. wonder what that would do to inflation.
We will see what the government can do to restore the economy.
The government has already averted a massive depression over your objections.
- well im tired of waiting for slashdot to let me post.
Have a good one, right wing lunatic.
... if the US-GOV was a company it would be insolvent....
Here is a question for you: if you could print money without going to prison for it, could you not also spend however much you wanted to fulfill all your wishes that money could fulfill? You could also make all sorts of "friends" on whom you could lavish all sorts of goodies you got for "free".
If you were an intelligent person of integrity, you would not do this, because you know that the arbitrary medium of exchange we call money would eventually become worthless. The problem is that those now in government not only the United States government, have lost or are ignoring their intelligence and/or integrity. This is simply part of human nature. There are many, if not most, who know what is right and good for themselves and others, yet refuse to implement it in their own lives. They also know what it is highly detrimental to others and yet continue doing that as well. All of this is a manifestation of human selfishness, the extreme of which culminates in a sick form of greed.
All theory is gray
I work at the Intellectual Ventures Lab where this system is being created. Just wanted to respond to a few points in the comments:
DDT is non-discriminatory. It does kill mosquitoes, but it harms lots of other life forms as well. Because of its abuse, there are bans and economic sanctions that prevent its use. Changing that is a political problem.
Using lasers, we don't expect to eradicate mosquitoes entirely, but they can be a way to help reduce their populations enough that malaria can't survive. In particular, the laser system can help create a perimeter to keep people safe.
As far as we know, there aren't any species that rely solely on mosquitoes as a food source.
Thanks, I will try to respond if there are further questions here.
Ah, here we go with the Matthew Lesko arguments.
http://www.lesko.com/lesko_cart/images/standing.gif
Interest rates were on the rise before the government stepped in with free money for everyone (the fine print of course indicate massive strings attached).
Other economies, for example, India, has the central rates set to 8+%, which is still too low, but shows that if you need someone else capital you need to pay a premium for it, and given that capital is in short supply, it would stand to reason that a premium must be charged for it.
The problem is the unrealistic growth rates of mature economies dont allow for profiting via growth projections (rather than simply earning money). So the government steps in, turns on the free money spigot, gets the interest rates for savings down in the 1-2% range while diluting the value of the whole currency in order to prop up dying companies that ran the business like a Madhoff ponzi scheme.
Bush isnt responsible for the crisis, congress is (no particular congress), the Executive of the US government (no particular one) and the US Federal Reserve System.
Fundamentally, the government is trying to fix the prices of various things to "make it all work." This pulling on the invisible hand is a fools venture. As I predicted the housing collapse (and wished while doing so that I was wrong), I fear too the Austrian economists will ultimatly be proven right.
We are a nation of partially educated whiney grabby idiots, and we got the government that represents this. The Chinese, India and other up and coming nations will show no mercy for this arrogant abuse of our status as the world's forex reserves.
War and asset sales will continue to be the only option for this scheme until it is corrected at the core.
And to say that the government has already averted a depression by doing what they did (most of the monies injected wont be "felt" for some time), is just arrogance and stupidity.
.... that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable...
Of course most people nowadays believe in the theory of evolution which teaches that all life, including humans, evolved out of the primordial slime millions of years ago. Only a personal Creator God is capable of bestowing certain inalienable rights to human beings. How can primordial slime, or warm nutrient laden pools and the subsequent impersonal "natural selection" mechanism impart any right whatsoever to any human being? Only another PERSON, not some object or process, can give or take away human rights. Only I as a PERSON, can give you rights concerning my property or objects of mine. The objects or property do not have the power to grant rights to anyone.
All the signers of the Constitution believed in a personal God, to whom they themselves, as well as all humans are ultimately accountable. They knew that it is the first and primary responsibility, yes indeed the reason why governments exist, to PROTECT (not give or take) these God-given rights. Today, to the extent that people both in and out of government no longer believe in their heart, that they are responsible to a supreme God, to that extent they take it upon themselves to lord it over other people. They have taken the position of rulers and manipulators of the public, rather than public servants.
All theory is gray
You idiot. No one's talking about putting mosquito-killing lasers in orbit.
... you know, the one on the porch, plugged into the AC socket in the wall. Or at the edges of a village, perhaps even in aircraft, like TFA said.
You'd put one of these bug zappers next to the other bug zapper
Jesus Christ.
You actually thought they were going to put this thing in fucking orbit?
Quit eating those paint chips, man.
....are you serious? You think they're proposing attacking the mosquitoes from _orbit_?
The only similarity to the Star Wars program is that they're using lasers to shoot targets with a high degree of precision.
+5 Informative
Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
o_0
And here I was thinking of some small device in my backyard looking something like a mirror-ball spinning at very fast RPMs...
Not so simple, no? I guess Home Depot won't be selling them anytime soon.
Life is not for the lazy.
To "Don't send a cannon to kill a mosquito." Sorry, I couldn't resist :P
Yes, I have always told people that "the creator" here is referring to a "Supreme Construct Greater Than The Government."
This is completely compatible with the US Constitution, where God and the Creator are not mentioned. The idea behind this declaration is to cut off the notion of the divine right of kings and that everyone, including the US Government, is not the ultimate power and as such cannot alienate certain rights that are afforded to all sentient living things.
Modern Americans are generally completely out of touch with these notions which are clarified in historic documents of the period. They don't teach true American-style freedom in school. Everything is abridged and politicized to the point where we have a police state and the state is God.
I have a much better plan.
Simply engineer a virus that is deadly to moquitos but harmless to humans, and spread it through the human population.
A perfect plan which could not possibly fail.
I suggest the virus be named 'The Hubris Strain'
how do know they're "damned efficient" ???
your talking out of your ass. being dogmatic.
Billions of people all over the world can't get rid of these fuckers, but you have it all figured out.
care to back it up?
Did this on HBO back in the 80's.
In stores now!
RTFA, it says nothing about launching the lasers into space
I know a guy who owns property in rural Alaska (a very swampy area), and in summer the mosquitos are terrible. He has been experimenting with the propane powered mosquito traps, and has found that he can't leave them out overnight. The problem? They catch so many mosquitos that the trap fills up and causes the whole thing to burn up.
Sounds like it's time for a coin-op version.
They ought to take one of these things to the Everglades and crank up the power.
Throw in a BBQ and some cold beer and it would be the best Fourth Of July ever.
Personally, I remember going to my grandparents' house when I was little and my grandfather would pull out this giant bug zapper and we'd listen to mosquitos explode all night long. Ahhhhh..... makes me think of that "Real Men Of Genius" radio commercial.
Knowing Google's lust for data collection, the Soviet Union is still alive and well inside the psyche of Sergey Brin....
Only one survivor would need to survive and procreate to pass the beneficial genes into the pool.
On a geologic scale, humans can breed fast given no competition.
In 50,000 years we've gone from almost nothing, to enough to cause a massive deer like die off from over breeding.
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
Don't worry bro, these "devices" will be in the shape of a long and thing flashlight with a thumb button to activate. You then swing it around the swarm of mosquitoes to kill.
Ask the American Bison how their tolerance for high-velocity lead injections is coming along.
I'd rather they concentrate their efforts on biological warfare.
and it's "shooting mosquitos with FLAK fire". Oh the meta-irony.
Colorless green Cthulhu waits dreaming furiously.
The problem with most so-called Keynesians is they don't save in the good times and run deficits in the bad times. They run deficits ALL the time. And I agree with you that the deficits will cause inflation and/or depreciation of the dollar (which are really two sides of the same coin, which is lower living standards for most Americans).
What was once true, is no longer so
We are likely to make the same mistake with Polio- forgetting to go the final inch. Almost eradicated is not the same as eradicated.
DDT was used terribly irresponsibly. They sprayed my whole suburban neighborhood in Michigan where no malaria had been seen in 100 years. They killed all the bugs and birds and probably started quite a few extra Dioxin cancers, to avoid a few bites.
But DDT is a really amazing insect repellent. Mosquitoes turn around and fly away from a house where the walls have been sprayed with just a small amount. That saves lives!
I'm a big believer in lasers and robotics to kill pest bugs on plants and weeds.
But we already know how to stop malaria. Long lasting mosquito nets and a bit of DDT and good basic health care and treatment of infected people is the answer we can afford.
Just because we used DDT irresponsibly shouldn't give us the right to ban it worldwide. We should have found a way to continue to use it in a more appropriate fashion. We could have taxed it to make massive applications unaffordable. Could have treated it as a prescription medicine for treating the house.
If we had regulated DDT right, the worlds 2nd biggest killer would no longer bother us, and one million people a year would not die of it.
Point taken, however - a huge country like Canada with massive amounts of uranium and tar sands and natural resources and a huge land mass with a scant 30 million people is an order of magnitude less of a problem to manage than a country with 10x its population, a serious leaky southern border, backfiring aggressive foreign policy, particularly with Iran, and the US is competing with countries like India and China whose middle classes are larger than the US's entire population. The top 5 students in every Indian and Chinese primary school out numbers all the kids in primary school in the US.
So there are a few problems, Keynes calls it "the paradox of thrift" and suggested that policies forcing people not to save is a "good idea." The guy wanted people spending all the time, or if he didn't, he never conveyed that to his protégés well enough for them to not do what they are doing. Right now the plebeians in the US are actually stashing cash, and everyone from Obama to the media is trying to get people to spend spend spend. The best thing for the long term is for people to prepare for the coming hell, not set out with no reserves.
I have seen Keynes invoked to justify nearly every bad move in the past decade, and its warming up to be a potential currency collapse, the collapse of the US Treasury and Federal Reserve notes, and a collapse of the NYSE. And then they invoke Keynes to suggest the best way out of the mess is to spend out of an already near-critically debt massed black hole.
I am not a fan of Breton Woods, I'm not a fan of baseless fiat currencies, and while I'm certainly not a 'gold bug,' I think the potential for an Austrian-school-of-economics "I told you so" is high, and not something we all want to see.
Its plain. A house is run like a town is run like a country or business is run like a state is run like a government. If there are things the government is doing that would either force your home into bankruptcy or into jail via fraud charges, then the government and banks shouldn't be operating in that fashion. A certain degree of stretchy liquidity is in order, but in terms of percent of GDP, there is no way of justifying what they US has now.
Iceland failed at 850 percent debt to GDP. The US is at 350 and rising. Its not a good thing at all.
For example, imagine if you could blind even a small fraction of New Yorkers, especially those driving on the roads on rush hour....
They might be unable to read their cell phones and would be unable to continue their important texting.
I've seen things, horrible things, and they often occur in cars with NY plates on them...
with ernst stavro blofeld killed for good, the other terrorists are merely small fries. no need to worry here
pew pew pew
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSIWpFPkYrk this idea is pretty old
... killing a mosquito with a cannon?
Show a man some news, distract him for an hour. Show a man some mod points, distract him for the rest of his life.
We'll nuke 'em from orbit. Its the only way to be sure.
Be as you would have the world become.