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Should Network Cables Be Replaced?
Jyms writes "As technology changes, so hubs routers and switches are upgraded, but does the cabling need replacing, and if so, how often? Coax gave way to CAT 5 and CAT 5e replaced that. If you are running a 100Mbit/s network on old CAT 5, can that affect performance? Do CAT 5(e) cables get old?"
Should I have a plumber re-run copper all over my house?
Just like any cable, cables will break. So, yes, they do get old.
Also, there is cat6 cables out with better specs and can handle at least up 10gb/sec.
For best performance, replace it with a genuine high performance cable like this: http://www.usa.denon.com/productdetails/3429.asp
Fuck systemd. Fuck Redhat. Fuck Soylent, too. Wait, scratch the last one.
Cat6 works better if you want Gig-E to the desktop. You may be on 100Mbit/s now, but for how long?
But this is slashdot. A slashdoter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber!
I'd consider replacing cables exposed to the elements or extreme temperatures (+/- 40 from room temp) every 10 years if you have the budget. Perhaps 2% of your cabling? Drawing from zero experience though.
moox. for a new generation.
You should replace your tired old CAT5 with brand new, all-gold Monster-CAT6+++++++!
Only $1000 a foot, starting in 10 foot increments!
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
I am responsible for a 17 location VPN base WAN for a retail chain. We use Cat5e for everything, but in the end, it hardly matters, because Cat3 at 10 mbps is still over four times faster than the T-1 that it talks to the outside world with.
But we don't work with large files internally, even here in the corporate office. If one is working with gigabyte sized files on a regular basis, on a local network, it would matter.
Obligatory:
When it was installed, your old cable had to run signals uphill through the snow, both directions. They didn't have electrons back then, they had to nake do with quarks. Time hadn't been invented yet, so the direction and speed of network traffic was hard to estimate.
Who would win this election: Andrew Weiner vs Andrew Weiner's weiner.
I'm not sure what would "get old" exactly. It's insulated copper, so I think it should be good so long as they aren't damaged. If anyone knows better, feel free to correct me.
If you want to be sure, though, test them. Transfer files over your network. If the connection is bad, you can try replacing the cable and see if that works. But the fact that Cat6 is out doesn't mean you have to rush out and replace all your CAT5e cables, especially if you're only dealing with normal 100mbps connections. But I use CAT5e for 1gbps connections, and that seems to work fine.
These people should be able to help you.
Seriously though, what strange question. Either the cable works and you're happy with the bandwidth it provides, or it stops working and you replace it, or you want to upgrade it. What's the complication here?
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
If you do not, then cracks will appear and bits will start to drip from it. Soon, that drip will become bigger and you will have bytes dropping out. Cheaper to replace them now, then to lose all those bytes. I can be over there next week to replace them all for a low low price.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Do not replace network cables just to do it. That is a waste of time and money Replace them in two situations:
1) You are moving to a faster signaling speed and need better cabling. 10mbps requires Cat-3, 100mbps requires Cat-5, 1000mbps requires Cat-5e. Do not run higher speeds on lower standards, it works sometimes but often it "works" in that you get link but there's all kind of errors.
2) A cable has a fault. Sometimes they will break because of strain. In this case, you need to replace them to make them work.
Barring that, keep the cable you have. No reason to replace it just for fun. Also no reason to upgrade to new standards without a reason. It isn't as though it makes shit work better. 10mbps is 10mbps no matter if it is on Cat-3 or Cat-6. Also sometimes you get standards that aren't useful. Cat-6 is likley to never be useful for anything. 1gbps only needs Cat-5e, and 10gbps is likley to require Cat-6a. So if you upgraded a Cat-5e network to Cat-6 to prepare for faster speeds, well then you probably wasted your money and will have to upgrade again to Cat-6a if you want 10gbps.
Do you own speed test across your network. The only situation that matters to you is yours.
Test your own setup and use the results to justify the replacement if any is needed.
Keep the longest runs of your network clean so you have a good spine.
I only look human.
My mother is a halfling and my dad is an ogre, so that makes me an Ogreling
I'm inclined to "there's not a problem until there's a problem." I've always seen cat5e and most cat5 do gigabit OK in practice if it's not at ridiculous cable lengths (10 metres or less and you should be fine).
Though moving a server room several years ago, we used fresh cable basically because we could even though the machines were all the same.
http://rocknerd.co.uk
Of course the wires get older, the advantage is that wires are not moved everyday, so its not easy to break them, anyway you have to verify if mices, kids and even accidents have damaged them periodically, and also you have to evaluate if you really need an speed increase, for example if all you need is your users to check mail and you dont have more that 30 users, probably coax would be just fine (of course if its not damaged), but rememeber it will get broken some day, and costs for old technologies repariment use to increase with the time, so keeping old cupper is not always the best way to save bucks.
[spoiler]YES[/spoiler]
As long as your wiring is static, I would say only replace what breaks/fails until you choose to upgrade the network. If you go to Gig-E, I would suggest Cat6.
Environmental conditions. Is your residence in a tropical area? Do you have window AC units keeping your place cool? Do you have problems with humidity control (as in too much)?
You might want to check your NW plugs and jacks to make sure that they look bright and golden, not dull, dark or green. That would tell you if you might have problems up the line with the wall jacks and the cabling you ran.
If you can, repunch with fresh wall jacks and replace your runs where the plugs are poor.
If your wiring was run in high traffic areas, definitely reroute with fresh wiring or replace with an alternative method of NW.
If it's buried and not in PVC pipe, be wary of burrowing rodents. They love the taste and texture of PVC jackets.
First rule of holes; When in one, stop digging.
Cat5 or Cat5e is more than enough for 100mbps networks so there's no need to replace them with Cat6.
If you have a few dollars to spend it would be worth replacing very old cables with factory made patch cords like these.
Manually made (and less often factory made cables) can become bad because those copper terminations that are pushed in to make contact with the cable wires can get slightly loose in time and cause the connection to go down to half duplex or 10 mbps or you could get disconnections whenever someone steps on the cable or moves it.
You can fix it usually by using a crimping tool to press the contacts again but it's not worth it as they'll come loose again soon.
As for your last question... besides what I said above, what could get old is the plastic/pvc whatever that wraps the twisted pairs of copper.
That wrapping doesn't get old and dry enough to break in less than a few years, so you're safe.
"If it ain't broke, don't replace it with Cat6."
Seriously, replacing cable is gigantic pain in the ass, when you could be doing better things with your time. Not to mention, it's expensive if you have a large enough installation-- this is why people are spending so much to keep Cat5e creaking along.
If it's working, and you're happy with it, keep it. If you need something faster, or it doesn't work anymore, or you need to meet new fire codes, well, that answers your question.
Remember, wires are solid state electronics. There's not much to go wrong there unless you're in extreme environments.
The copper in Ethernet cables that have been sitting for a while can form to the shape it's given. What this means is that the cable can work perfectly fine for a given server from the given port on a patch panel. You can then move that known good working cable over to another server in a different part of the rack and then discover all kinds of intermittent or non-existing network problems.
Cables that run from a wall jack to a patch panel aren't moving even if the cable does move and so may still work perfectly well for you. If your cables are old 100 Mbit ethernet than by all means replace them. However if you have cat5 and it supports gigabit than it arguably may not pay to upgrade. What are your needs and go from there.
Bottom line is that cables to and from a patch panel should be replaced, but the ones in the walls require greater scrutiny.
Well terminated cat5 cable will be sufficient for achieving 1Gb/s speeds. What's more important for maximizing your throughput is to ensure that you have your cables properly wired to support full duplex connections. In addition, all passive hubs should be eliminated and replaced with GigE switches, either managed or unmanaged depending on how much control you need.
I am becoming gerund, destroyer of verbs.
No.
I'll be here all week.
The price is always right if someone else is paying.
We had a contractor wire our office and had no problems until we started using roaming profiles. A few of the connection terminators were bad and only allowed a 1mb/s connection. The computers that had these problems normally only transfered a text files from the server, or surfed the internet and weren't really using more than that bandwidth anyway. So, with large file copies associated with roaming profiles, we finally found the problem. At that point, I distrusted the contractors work and had every connection redone (40 total) and retested to the full 1000mbs our network actually supported.
So my suggestion is this. Unless someone kicks the cable every day, there isn't much to go wrong. Monitor for abnormally high number of collisions on one port, and yearly perform throughput tests.
We replaced all of our Type 1 cabling at my company after the tokens started falling out.
"What the hell is an aluminum falcon?"
Cables don't get "old" by themselves, but they might have been installed incorrectly from the start (too tight bending, swapped pairs/cables, twisted pairs separated for a longer distance, shields not connected properly, grounding done wrong). Furthermore mechanical stress (too much work being done on a patch panel over the course of several years, cables pulled hard while moving racks, ...) might have damaged parts of the cabling.
To cut a long story short: Properly done CAT5 should be good enough for Gigabit, but often what's called CAT5 works well for 100 Mbit networks even though it doesn't meet the specs.
Get a decent LAN tester (not just two computers, using "ping") that prints out attenuation, crosstalk and all the other things... and preferably tells you what "category" your cabling still is compatible with. Replace all the stuff that's out of spec. Then you have hard numbers you can rely on should you ever ponder if your local network infrastructure can handle 100M/1G/10G bit/s. Everything else is guesswork.
When your fibre cables get old you can fit them with reading glasses.
No need to thank me.
I kind of took this article more to be suggesting that we should be looking at newer data transmission technologies and materials - not so much continuing in a line, all involving copper.
There are some recent reports released stating that *really* common elements used in technology are about to become exhausted resources - most in the next 10 years, but some as soon as 4 years from now.
For instance, at our current rate of consumption, Indium will be exhausted in four years. Indium is used for current generation LCD displays, among other things.
Gold and copper are in the same boat. The US already has closed down most of its gold mines, and all of its copper mines because they're not economically viable to mine for anymore. Predictions put gold and copper at exhausted in around 10 years.
And none of these projections take into account population growth or new technology demands. It's only at "current consumption rates".
In other words:
Should we be looking to upgrade cabling to fiber optics or other mediums for transmission of data, so that we can begin reclaiming copper to be used in more essential capacities?
Don't fix it.
Bull - you can do Gig-E (IEEE 802.3ab) perfectly fine up to the 100 meter spec over regular old CAT-5 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigabit_ethernet. You don't need CAT-5e or CAT-6 unless you have incredibly shitty cable, splices, runs approaching max length, or too many patch panels along the route (IE, a crappy install in the first place).
Now, I personally use shielded CAT-6 for everything, but I believe in overkill :)
Your cables should last forever, don't worry about that. It's the electrons that need periodic replacement. A good rule of thumb is once every 3 months, or every 100 GB, whichever comes first.
I read Usenet for the articles.
The answer depends on how many hours you like wasting on the troubleshooting of an issue not knowing that it's just a stupid cable failing you. Add the cost of new cables into the cost of any of your projects; why would management notice or care otherwise?
If cables were cars, you would be wise to check the RJ-45 and wall connectors before replacing the cables. Chances are, if the cars (cables) were not moved, then there probably isn't much of a problem with them. A car (cable) tester would be a wise investment. Most of the issues I've had with old cars (cables) had to do with the connectors on the end points wearing out, and not the cars (cables) themselves wearing out. These are not high voltage cars (cables) like the ignition wires on your car (actually a car this time), so their performance degredation is probably minimal. These low voltage cars (cables) are pretty much a radiation path rather than a power transmission path.
by Mike Buddha -- Someday the mountain might get him, but the law never will.
the quality of the cables definitely affects gigabit. I've seen cat5 (non e) make a computer or a switch refuse to go to gigabit speed. I've also been told that it can still show GB but run at sub-gb speeds if the cable is marginal. (faster than 100bt but slower than gb)
I've also heard from others that the speed of one port being sub-gb can cause other ports on a gb switch to slow down even though it's not common traffic. I don't know if I buy this or not - doesn't sound like a properly designed switch should have that problem.
I have 5(non-e) in my house and in some places I can get gb going. The kind of terminators and jacks (especially) makes a difference too. You have to maintain the twist as far into the connectors as possible to get full gb speeds.
I've also heard (again unsubstantiated) reports that certain models of switches/nics don't get along well at gb speeds and will not run at optimal speeds together. So you might want to try to stick with one brand at the location.
I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
coax should in fact be superior to cat5 or cat5e it was replaces because it costs too much and BNC connectors are inconvenient, as for waveguide and shielding properties im pretty sure its way better than twisted pair cables. as for cat5 cat5e should be superior to it.
If your cables get a lot of physical stress, either from heat, humidity, chemicals, or being moved around or plugged and unplugged a lot, they can go bad over time.
If they don't, they should last decades. Change them out when they no longer meet your current speed requirements. If you are still using telephone cable you installed back in 1950 in your walls, and you run nothing faster than a serial line over them, and there are no unusual environmental stressors, they should still work for that application. These same cables lying loose in a lab environment, or being unplugged and replugged a few times a year in a test environment, or being used in a building with a bad environment, would probably have been replaced several times over by now. It goes without saying that as soon as you try to put more Ethernet on it for more than a very short distance, these cables will show they are not suited for the task.
Basically, treat your network cables like electrical and phone cables: As long as the application doesn't change, replace them when they break. When the application changes, i.e. shifting from 10Mbps to 100 to 1000 to 10000 and beyond, consider replacing them if they don't meet your new requirements.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
Patch and drop cables being used from punchdown blocks to rack devices and from wall sockets to desktop systems take abuse and should be replaced as appropriate.
In-wall wiring going from punchdowns in wire closets and to wall sockets is pretty static and unless there were illegal twists or other abuse applied in the original installation these should last a lot of years (how many is a good question - probably at least 10-15 years I would think). Most likely reason they would be replaced is when cheap 10GE over copper mandates wire a bit better than Cat 6.
Yes.
I would make sure that all network devices are showing 100 MB connection, they may have failed pairs that dropped to 10 MB, and never noticed.
I agree copper should be fine as long as it is not fatigued by regular movement, and has never been exposed to over-currents (POE much?.)
the plastic insulation, and connectors would be what I would worry more about. We have all experienced cables with the center latch broken off. As well as cables that have had the plastic insulation chewed off by rodents. basically I would be prepared to replace repair a small percent of cables anytime you are doing a mass un-plug - re-plug. also I wouldn't be surprised if a small percent of the cables don't have some issue like a single grounded wire that has gone un-noticed.
"Should I make work for myself on a complicated, invasive, lengthy, and hard to stop project so I can continue to justify my job in a recession?"
No.
If you're going to do anything, upgrade to fiber.
--
$tar -xvf
The main body of the cable can become damaged by crushing or sharp bending.
If you have a cable quality tester that can map throughput (very expensive) then use it and check existing cables on occasion when they get rerouted and on all new equipment hook ups.
Replacing patch cables is easy and fairly cheap but not worth the upgrade cost with out the need for a speed boost. A good rule of thumb is to standardize on cat5e and toss old patch cables when the equipment is moved around. the old cables go to desktop use where they will be crushed under a chair in a week anyway.
I've worked with a handful of LANs in small and large scale and I can't think of a single instance when the cable in the wall caused problems on its own. Jacks? Yes. Cut wires? Yes. Chewed wires (rodents)? Yes. Installed by old-school electricians who put staples every 3 feet? Yes.
Having a good supply of ~6' cables made up for end users who yank the connectors off or fold them over until the internal conductors break or cut them is a good idea, though. That tends to be where the most abuse is.
Like any other cables, replace them if they've gone bad, or if you have a reasonable expectation that they're failing.
If you have cables that flex and move relatively frequently, and you're seeing a number of them failing, replace them. If the cables that are installed currently are poorly made, replace or fix them. However, cables that aren't moving or flexing, and aren't having problems shouldn't be replaced. That is, don't rip the wires out from your walls if you're not having problems with them.
I was working at a company a few years ago where there were a number of people reporting intermittent connectivity issues and I found various transmission errors. Replacing their patch cables into the switch solved their problems. The cables were Cat5, some even Cat3, and many were installed while the company was using Token Ring. Due to cable management issues and very bare-bones switching, the cables were moved somewhat frequently. The cables were quite stiff, I think the jackets were experiencing dry-rot. Finally, the migration from Token Ring and Ethernet hubs to full-duplex, switched FastEthernet was likely bringing to light poorly made cables that otherwise went unnoticed.
As there were a number of affected users, I convinced my boss to spend the $100 (or less) on new Cat5e patch cables for everyone. I told him that even if it was unnecessary, the expense was pretty negligible compared to the labor costs if they did deteriorate, and replacing them would only take about an hour. After that, besides the occasional bad switch port, or a bad cable outside the server room, we no longer had problems on the physical layer.
I personally have a policy that whenever I'm physically working on a system, if the patch cable seems to be poorly made or if the jacket seems to be deteriorating, or of poor quality, I toss and replace. Cables aren't that expensive, but the failure of a cable can be expensive.
I can confirm first-hand that old Cat5 wiring over about 100 feet long (even though it is certified for over 300 feet) will not carry 1Gbps signal, even if you use a powered switch to "boost" signal on the other end. Last time I tried that, I saw a signal degradation so bad that the connection speed was more like dial-up than full duplex 1Gbps. Even though it might work all right for 100 Mbps connections, they are virtually unacceptable by the enterprise userbase now. The tolerance for latency is very low nowadays.
Bow before me, for I am root.
Eventually the insulation on cables will degrade and they should be replaced. For patch cables this is evident: simply look at them. If they *look* torn up, they *are* torn up. For in-wall cables, the degradation cycle is several decades; they'll be obsolete long before they wear out.
Two-pair Cat-5 was suitable for 100baseTX at 125mhz. Four-pair Cat-5 remains suitable for 1000baseTX, also at 125mhz. Poorly made and/or poorly installed cat-5 will cause errors on gig-e links. If you observe this, replace with cat-5e or cat-6.
The magic in 1000baseT is that they kept the signaling rate (the "baud") at 125mhz, just like 100baseTX. As a result, it works the same on exactly the same cables.
Cat-5e, cat-6, shielded and PIMF (pair in metal foil) cables all reduce the bit error rate and will allow you to get slightly more distance out of your connection.
10-gig-e is not presently expected to work on cables which aren't Cat-6 PIMF shielded. That may change by the time it becomes commonplace but I wouldn't bank on it changing much.
Moderating "-1, Disagree" is simple censorship. Have the guts to post your opinion.
I bet they have a bridge to sell you.
"Speaking the Truth in times of universal deceit is a revolutionary act." -- George Orwell
It isn't as though higher grade materials really cost that much more. There are better grades of the materials that go in to a cable. That is the difference between some cheap wire from a hardware store and something like, say, a professional Belden cable. However you'll discover that the cost difference between the two isn't a whole lot. Cheap RG-59 might run you $0.10/foot and Belden 1694A might run you $0.50/foot.
So yes, they'll often use good materials, because they don't come anywhere near the sales price. For $500 I imagine I could make you a Cat-5 cable using silver conductors if you wanted (silver wire isn't nearly as expensive as people seem to think).
The markup on "audiophile" cable is so insane they can afford to do things well.
Any category of "cat" can certainly help with that...
A good cable tester (say, a Fluke for example) is extremely expensive, but not as expensive as the man-hours involved in re-wiring an enterprise network because "maybe I think it might be worn out".
Seriously, get a good tester, and it will tell you exactly which wires you need to replace. People on slashdot are just guessing, they have no freaking idea if your wires are any good (apparently you don't know either, but a tester will fix that problem for you).
'Nuff said.
Skot Nelson music is my saviour / i was maimed by rock and roll
Over time, UV and ozone in the atmosphere attack the plasticiser in PVC cables. This makes the outer jacket stiff and prone to cracking. Long before the cracks are large enough to be visible, they can be letting surprisingly large amounts of ether escape from your ethernet. Quite often you can regas the cables with a bottle of ether and a special adaptor, but ultimately you will still need to replace them.
But you just got it burned in! You don't want the new cable jitter and muddiness, do you?
Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
I am a wiring expert! Listen to me! I said listen to me! Run everything with serial cables, then convert to fiber. Every server/workstation will require a fiber card, but it will be worth it! Trust me! I am a cabling expert!
Cable, in itself, doesn't get old.
What matters far more is how many times you plug and unplug the connectors. With the crimped on ones, the conductors shift around and get loose when you do this.
To Dennon proprietary ultra premium Denon Link cable. Made from high purity copper wire and high performance connection parts, the AK-DL1 will bring out all the nuances...The AK-DL1 employs high level tin-bearing alloy shielding not typically available in commercial cabling, to eliminate data loss caused by noise. Additionally, signal directional markings are provided for optimum signal transfer. Attention to detail when building this cable was used by employing high quality insulation and woven jacketing to reduce vibration and to add durability.
In fact most computer problems come from running data the wrong way along cables. At $499 for each 1.5m length this cable is a steal. I insist on dennon link cables for a truly nuanced web experience!
actually there is no offical spec for Cat6 cable, it is something made up. Cat5e is all you need.
I thank you for making me laugh... Once upon a time, I was called in to an "emergency meeting" with the head of sales to discuss "network problems" has was having. I took along my network guy and we were introduced to a "network specialist" (a friend of one of the sales guys) which (with a straight face) proceeded to describe how the cables were "old" and the "electrons inside had probably worn out". The meeting ended when I could not stop laughing...
I needed to laugh again, and your post did it....
The charge your employer for disposal of the old network cable. Then see the cable for copper.
BOFH FTW.
If I were God, wouldn't I protect my churches from acts of me?
once again ask slashdot has become an instance of doing some slackers freshman class homework.
next on ask slashdot: can anyone tell me how to sort a list of 10 items alphabetically using java?
or long term exposue to magnetic fields causes elecrical resistance and damages the switch over time.
Your post made good sense, apart from this bizarre statement. Did you just make this part up or something ?
Just got back from a trip to Japan, where stores in Akihabara sell Cat7.
Plain Cat5 has been deprecated and difficult to find these days. Cat5e is what you buy and install.
Both 100 Mb and Gb Ethernet were designed for Cat5. If you have true Cat5 it should work and continue to work.
100 Mb Ethernet does require better cable than 10 Mb Ethernet. Gigabit Ethernet uses the same cable as 100 Mb.
It is a common misconception that Gb Ethernet requires higher bandwidth cabling. Gb Ethernet gets its speed by using more wires (all 4 pairs are used), using the wires in both directions simultaneously and through more dense encoding. The carrier signals for both Gb and 100 Mb Ethernet are 125 Mhz.
Advanced digital signal processing in Gb interfaces actually makes them more tolerant of sub-optimal cabling than the less sophisticated 100 Mb.
Maybe the analogy early in this thread was appropriate.
Depending on your facility cabling can be exposed to fairly wide swings in temp. For instance, where I sit right now the cabling is run above a drop ceiling. The business has been in the facility for 20+ years, so any wiring (from computer to phone) ever installed is still up there (no one ever removes the old cables from previous installations). Temperature swings range from around 140F on a hot summer day to marginally above freezing in the winter.
A lot of cable is run in places difficult (at best) to access. If you're "in" you need to balance taking the opportunity to swap out "old" (you pick the time period) with "new". Part of the equation is your tolerance for down time. The cost of cable is likely low compared to the cost of a significant period of outage.
Im questioning it because here where i live (rented apartment, cant pass cabling) i have a 30M cable being passed between the "router room" and my room, its clipped thru all the house ceiling.... then it goes down the all and plugs direclty into my computer (i know this is hackish but im not living here forever)....
The thing is , once i ran over this cable with a really heavy thing and it broke, near my computer end...cut an inch of the cable , over the part that was broken, tested conectivity with a multitester and a clip and then resoldered the then untwisted wires....wrapped everything up, did a loop in that part of the cable so you cant move the "harmed" part and snap the poorly soldered wires and shoved electrical tape
from a linux machine on the other side...i copy /dev/zero [using samba]...9.7MB/s [100mbit link]... so what the fsck with all you guys and your sad experiences with these things....its running like this for 3 years , no problems at all, no nothing.
if i'm missing something please explain ;)
I have had issues with cables gnawed by a cat ... what about a dog?
Of course they get old, what are you some sorta magician that can stop time?! Geeze...
huh? what about TIA/EIA-568-B ?
This is pretty close in price to that denon crap, but worth the money:
http://www.tensolite.com/v2/productFiles/HiPerfCable_NETflight.pdf
Sounds like an article written by the BOFH.....
Only he, The Great One, could come up with a scheme like this!
Knowing Google's lust for data collection, the Soviet Union is still alive and well inside the psyche of Sergey Brin....
cat 5e can support 10GigaBits/s at 45m so there really is no reason to replace it unless you really need to have speeds faster than any bus on your computer. cat5 on the other hand has problems supporting 1Gbit so if your really into maybe replace it. You only really need to think about it when you are laying new cable where you should decide between 5e, 6, 6c, and 7.
>Does the cable need replacing?
Cables are made of wires, insulation, and connectors. Generally the wire and insulation have a very long lifetime. Even the insulation used in cheap Cat-whatever cables will probably outlast you.
The lifetime drops a lot if the cable gets flexed, rubbed, exposed to heat, UV, or moisture. Under those cases the wire and insulation can fail fairly quickly (think months to a few years).
Under normal use in a good environment the key failure point is where the wire meets the connector. Those mod-jack connectors rely on insulation displacement to make the contact. They can fail fast in bad environments (hot, wet, high vibration).
Still, it's not common for general maintenance to change the cables. It's more common to replace them as they give you trouble.
>Do CAT 5(e) cables get old?
Sure, but they tend to keep working.
Otherwise you wouldn't have polished the silver for your grandma. Gold, yes. Silver, no.
too many downloads a month, and you get cut off...
" ... If you are running a 100Mbit/s network on old CAT 5, can that affect performance? ..." ... Do CAT 5(e) cables get old? ..."
Yes.
"
Yes.
Questions you didn't ask:
Q: Are old cables bad cables? A: By themselves, no. CAT 5 is made of high quality copper with a PTFE (Teflon) dielectric and protected by a reasonably robust PVC jacket that is rated for in-wall use, a high specification to begin with. They are essentially made of materials selected from the list of the best appropriate materials generally used for any cable need, and better than most of the cable in your home, your car, etc
Q: Does it degrade slowly over time? A: Yes, in the sense that everything does, and no in the sense that either it's broken or it's not broken.
Q: How will I know if it's broken? A: It won't work, and that includes intermittently not working.
Q: Can cables break? A: Yes. If they do, replace or repair them.
Q: Should I replace my Cat5 cables with Cat6? A: Probably not.
Q: Is the shininess and newness of my cables the most important part? A: No, the shininess and newness is relatively unimportant. The corrosionlessness and unbrokenness is fairly important, as is the competenceness of the installer, the appropriateness of the grade of original cabling and connectors, and the qualityness of any work by the installer.
Q: Is it easy to screw up a Cat5/5e/6 installation. A: Yes. Having said all that, CatX cable is remarkably resilient and amazingly tolerant of pathetic, shoddy and downright incompetent installation. Take comfort in that.
Q: What if I'm not getting the speed I should be from my network? A: Test the cables for integrity, and if you find you need to replace all the cabling, start on page one and decide what to replace it with and what your future needs will be. Keep in mind the goal is "future interconnection" and not "replace the Cat5 with Cat6" (even though that might be the proper conclusion). Whatever your answers, install it all at the same time.
In my years of experience running wire I have found the ends to be the most important factor when dealing with bandwith. The type of cable depends greatly on what will be transfered over the cable and where it is placed ie ( plenium )but an improperly terminated cable can cause all kinds of weird errors and can be hard to diagnose to the untrained eye. So be sure and check punchdowns and ends as they can develope damage from insects and rodents after time.
Cat5 for most cases is perfectly fine, if installed correctly. It isn't a particularly difficult cabling system to install yourself. Just follow simple rules and be thorough and it will work perfectly.
Copper cables DO NOT degrade - people who say they do are, quite frankly, idiots. Remembering to install cable correctly will give you 100+ years of trouble-free Category-5 cable use. Depending on the connection/disconnection cycle-rate you have, connectors will typically last as long as the cable will. you will have to maintain it accordingly and give it an occational clean, but that's about it.
I maintain a 65 building networks for a University, some cat-5 systems installed 20 years ago. These systems work perfectly at moderate to long-distances (35-80 metres) at 1Gb/sec with PoE enabled. The systems were installed carefully and tight controls and significant training programs are in place for any contractors that work in the buildings - we also audit compliance of contractors work to ensure standards are kept high.
For home, I use Category 5 - no Category 5e installed at all. It was installed into the house from new and again, is correctly and carefully installed. Each room has sealed outlets with correct bending radius maintained and cables supported carefully on cable trays. The system is running at 1Gb/sec over distances exceeding 90M without any issues to signal integrity. All cables pass on a level-2 cable scanner configured for the lower 100MHz spec cable. This cable will last 100+ years without degredation.
If money is no object, for a house, install Category 6 - But if you live in the real world and have only the need for Gigabit (such as I with my extensive Cisco-based LAN at home) Cat5 and Cat5e are perfectly fine - and cheap.
I work for a voice and data cabling company...
/CAN/ be run on Cat5e.
Stop worrying.
Don't fix whats not broken. Cables rarely go bad. The rare occurrences can be fixed, but you really don't need to replace cable until it fails. Usually new standards come out faster than the cable will fail. As has been said, gigabit
CAT5 and CAT5e can usually work with Gigabit ethernet, though for very big/important Gigabit links I use fiber.
For now there's still plenty of different fibre type and connectors (multi-mode, single-mode, LC, SC & others) and it can be a bit tricky getting the right stuff as you need the correct combination of fibre cable, connectors (which can be different on each end) and GBICs where applicable. I hope we will see a standard fibre replace Ethernet in the future (which would most likely use the MT-RJ connector, a compact connector similar to the RJ45 used in copper connections.
Are you implying that a cat5 network is a series of tubes? O.o
Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
I work for a company that supports restaurant networks. In that environment, cables fail on a regular basis. The combination of heat, grease, smoke, and people and equipment moving around leads to constant problems. Even the wall runs aren't always safe.
Obviously, little of this applies in an office building. I would recommend evaluating your particular situation.
If it is ran outdoors it will need to be replaced as even the UV rated stuff has a rating of about 5-10 years. Indoors the same applies but it will last for much longer because it will be exposed to less UV. Otherwise as long as it isn't being moved around or stepped on or put under strain which could cause it to break it should be fine.
http://xkcd.com/567/
Not only can your gear affect your speeds, but conflicts with speed auto-sensing can wreak havoc.
We recently swapped out some older edge switches in one site for a beautiful new CISCO core switch. Within days, the help desk had reports that some users' network performance had gone from fine to terrible. (Not our intent.)
As it turns out, a boatload of older NICs were mishandled by the new switch which downgraded speeds, communicated in half-duplex, and even then continually reset the connection.
Had the users not complained, we never would have known there was a problem.
As it turns out, each port on the core switch can be manually set to a fixed 100mb full duplex (and ignore auto-sensing) which then operates just fine.
So much for plug-n-pray.
Live Long and Prosper - Thanks Leonard. You are missed.
Take a look at the twists and bends, especially at the ends. A wiring closet run by cretins will leave cable tips on the floor where they get stepped on, jammed through too-small ducts and the latches pulled off the ends, hand-strung cable that wasn't properly terminated but done in house "to save money", too-short cables stretched to their maximum to reach awkward places, bundles bound so tightly with tie-wraps that they're ripping the cladding off the cable and are likely to pinch them so hard they cause intermittent breaks, power cables woven in massive bundles around critical high frequency connections, over-long cables which were never bundled leaving a rat's nest on the floor, hundreds of unlabeled junctions organized "by convention" that the next technician violated, cables over the maximum length because people don't coount the distance between the desktop and the ceiling duct where the cable runs, cables damaged by doors and ceiling tiles left on them, etc.
This doesn't even mention the old 10Base2 problem of "I'll just stick a 10 foot side-cable from the middle without running a loop, it worked fine in my dorm!".
An annual wiring inspection and cleanup is a good idea in almost any production environment. Even if you don't replace cables, it's a good time to re-organize your existing setup and replace or expand equipment as needed. And while doing it, replace all possible tie-wraps with Velcro to ease pressure on the cables.
Properly installed UTP does not get "old" in any real sense unless there is some environmental issue such as excessive heat or chemical attack.
However, as many other posters have mentioned, a great deal of cabling installations are not properly done. UTP should always be installed by certified installers to the latest revision of TIA/EIA-568, currently revision "C". the installation should be certified with a proper cable analyzer such as a Fluke DSP-4300 and the installer should be required to produce a test report for each cable run. Once you know the cabling has been installed to meet the performance requirements of the standard, you know you can rely on it and should not have to worry about problems with your cabling.
This is what I do for a living.
CM www.cometenergysystems.com Blog: http://caribbeanrenewable.blogspot.com/
Long time SlashDot reader, first time poster... That being said, I think I can add to this topic.
I'll start off by saying that I'm a "sales guy" for a cable manufacturer, but I'm still an engineering major at heart, so I'll remain very objective (and also short and sweet) in my conclusions here. I'll assume an all-data network.
Network cables should be replaced, but sometimes, it doesn't make sense. It mostly depends on what your starting point is and what your "migration strategy" is.
You can have a good, long discussion about the benefits of better cable, but here's a quick synopsis.
-Cable can be both a very simple and a very complex thing--it depends how deep you want to get into it. I won't get very far into it right now.
-There is a lot of offshore cable that is made and labeled as cat 6 or 5e, but aren't actually cat 6 or 5e. This should generally be replaced immediately.
-Category cables don't get "old" on their own (usually new standards make cables obsolete before anything else), except in cases of cable abuse, which are common--if not treated properly for what the cable is designed for, the jacket could wear out, the pairs could get separated, water or other environmental factors could harm the cable, etc. The end result is always the same--they will start to show worse electricals and start to fail key tests (ACR, NEXT, FEXT, RL, etc.) that make them "cat 6" and "cat 5e" or whatever.
-When a cable wears out, they may still pass a simple connection test, and you'll still be able to connect to the network--but your computer will be busy re-sending the data, which will slow down the effective speed of the connection. That is, you may still be connected at 1 gigabit, but your connection may be getting throughput closer to 1 megabit. So, really, in the end the more headroom the cable design has the more throughput you'll theoretically get. (Headroom is the amount the cable exceeds standard.)
-Typically, the first thing that needs replacement in an Ethernet channel (i.e. - all the cable and connectivity from the computer to the server in a structured cabling system) are the patch cords, due mostly to abuse by the users.
-There's a lot of snake oil as to what good cables consist of. In thinking about the kind of ethernet cable to buy, these are all generally good qualities to have in a cable, some are more important than others, depending on the application. (I'll oversimplify a bit, but this should give the jist):
1- Pairs that are twisted tightly and yet vary between each pair within the cable. This reduces crosstalk and helps the frequency performance of the cable.
2- Pairs that are able to maintain the twist and not get untwisted with abuse. (DC Coupling between the pairs is important to how a UTP cable performs)
3- Shielding isn't necessarily a good thing--a poorly shielded cable system can cause more problems than they prevent.
4- A sophisticated separation device between the cables is always a good thing.
5- A cable that will randomize or vary pair position between cable to cable is a bonus, especially in the category 6a world--this reduces alien crosstalk, which is vital for future applications.
6- A floating shield can be nice to have, especially in a patch cord, depending on the application. (not a GROUNDED shield--note the important difference.)
7- A Low delay skew is preferable, though becomes more vital in other non-data applications.
8- If you only had the chance to look at one electrical parameter, ACR is a good place to start--the frequency that the ACR crosses 0 for the entire channel is a good ethernet system.
I'm sure you meant to use this link for the best price - the comments here will fill you in on the AWESOMENESS of these cables.
Denon AKDL1 Dedicated Link Cable:
http://www.amazon.com/Denon-AKDL1-Dedicated-Link-Cable/dp/B000I1X6PM/
~hylas
Too much misinformation going on here.
Here's all you need to know:
If you suspect that the cable isn't performing well, rent a Fluke DTX series tester, and test the cable. It only costs a few hundred bucks for a week to rent. This will tell you if the cable *is* verifiably going bad (or, more likely, the jacks and/or punchdowns).
As to what cable you need for what version of Ethernet:
If you're doing gigabit Ethernet, you'll need Category 5 or greater.
If you're doing 10 gigabit Ethernet, you can achieve up to 55 meters with Category 6 cable. You can get the full 100 meters with Category 6a cable. I don't really even know if you can find Category 6a cable in too many places, it's a fairly recently ratified standard and I don't do a whole lot of cabling anymore these days.
But if you buy enough of these babies, problem solved!
That is all.
It's not offtopic, you goit. It's a reply to a suggestion that the GGGP google "cat5 replacement" when the thread was equating (quite accurately, actually) cat5 cabling with existing plumbing.
how did this get on /. there are millions of discussions on this topic all over the intertubes.
lose != loose
No, you should use a proper network bandwidth testing took like Iperf.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iperf
I've been finding bad cable in far-away buildings for years with this thing. If you're really a nut, import you speed test numbers into SQL and run stats on them.
To hell with you and your "facts", you presumptuous bastard!
If you even have to ask about this, your cables are too old. All of them. Every single last one. The only solution is to install new ones and send all the old copper, I mean cables, to me, including phone cables. Better safe than sorry. I promise not to ship the whole mess out to a scrap metal dealer. You could even go one better and follow my company's motto: if it ain't broke, fix it at least twice.
This is a hacked account, for which the owner can not be held responsible.
Yesterday I saw a telephone company technician do the same thing, strip 8 inches of jacket off the cables and connect up the jacks. He has been in the business for 31 years.
If they are in the wall or cable tray installs then you can pretty much use them till they are outmoded by newer types of cables as needed by your gear. The only way cables would really get "old" would be cables plugged and unplugged or regularly flexed. Those should be replaced as needed.
Anyone who tells you otherwise probably just wants to sell you cables.
The plastic chosen for insulators on most UTP is particularly sensitive to ultraviolet light. Exposed to the elements, it becomes brittle and permeable to moisture (the copper conductors' worst enemy) after only a few days outdoors in bright sunlight. Indoors this usually translates a few years, depending on the conditions. Shielded twisted pair is specifically designed to survive outdoors, however it is an entirely different animal-- a very expensive one that requires a special crimping tool.
We have CAT5 cables that were installed in 1997, some of which are longer than 100m and run past elevator engines and probably lots power cabling (it's in a theatre). With some cables, I could only get a stable link on 10MBPS and sometimes even that was too much to ask. I used simple 8 port switches (sweex, broadcom, etc) for most of these connections. After I plugged in these cables into a decent 24 port 3Com switch, the connection turned out to be steady as a rock. Kind of obvious perhaps, as a more expensive switch would be expected to have better noise tolerance, but it did save me from the impossible and expensive job of reinstalling the cabling. Decent network switches can be lifesavers. Yay for vlans!
We extend HD signal (VGA or HDMI) using utp over larger distances ( you think cat6 is stiff ? try putting 30 meters of VGA Cable) We noticed that once you go over a certain length ( around 30 meters) .. cat 5 just is not cutting it anymore for true HD resolutions (1920x1080).. they appear to have a sort of delay... putting in cat6 (cat5e had the same issue) solved the problem..
But to answer the real question: if it ain't broken and you don't need to upgrade, don't touch it..
I work at the largest dynamic lab that Cisco runs and after running several tens of thousands of meter of cable I can count on one hand the number of times I've seen a bad CAT5 cable cause an issue, and even then it's usually due to novices splicing the wire.
Multi-mode and single-mode fiber cables on the other hand...their ends get dirty enough for it to warrant a primary troubleshooting issue when they are involved, but again, that's assuming you swap and handle them many times a week over many years.
If you're serious about wanting to be able to upgrade, RUN CONDUIT. We have no idea what the next generation cabling will consist of, but whether it is Cat-6, Cat-6a, fiberoptic, some new-fangled fiberoptic, some sort of superconducting carbon tubes or what, you can pull the new cable through the old conduit.
Depending on your situation, you may not need actual conduit, or a full run. You may have a suspended ceiling, cable trays, raised floor, crawl space, attic, or an unfinished basement - but if it's going to be difficult to run a new line between a couple accessible points (as between a crawl space and an attic), then RUN SOME CONDUIT. It will make your life easier.
The blue cables are faster.
I would say that damaged cables will need replacing and if I was installing new cables I would put the fastest I could afford...
The downstairs of my house has thick walls and (tin?)foil insulation in it. Combined with odd corners and lack of line of sight it's a wireless-killer par excellence. In the end, getting fed up with lack of wireless signal, I cabled from the router in the garage, out on the outside of the house (couldn't get under the floors), with external pvc clad cat 6 (6 for future proofing) and brought it in through the walls for a port in every room. Cat 6 has a plastic wire separator in the middle and it makes it very unflexible and unaccomodating to lay and plug. Network is now fab but my hearty recommendation is do *not* do this until and unless you need to :)
in fact good sir they should; its a limitation of their original metal-and-plastic design. here at cableco ltd. we recommend replacing all your old cat5E cables with our hyper Catpro 5000 E series Pro cables as soon as possible, as leptons and rogue higgs bosons from recent supercollider activity may have contaminated the precious twisted metallic transfer devices inside the cabling.
afterwards, we recommend rotating the cables with our disposable cable rotator actuators every 1-2 months to ensure binary data travels consistently throughout the entire length of the cable, as a gigabit can sometimes become lodged in the boot of the cable and cause lagg.
Good people go to bed earlier.
CAT 5 will outlive you and I have run GbE on CAT 3. I also remember seeing a booth at COMDEX that had GbE running on barbed wire. If you listen to a wire company that is selling you cable, they say it will last for centuries, before you buy it and tell you it needs to be upgraded the following year with a new cable that will last for a century. If it's in the wall or ceiling there is nothing to harm it there, but patch cables can be physically damaged by humans or animals. The dog or cat chewing on a cable or a chair rolling over a cable regularly will ruin them.
1000BaseT increases the symbol rate by using all 4 pairs, and by sending data using a different symbol using more discrete voltage changes. So more bits and more baud as it were.
I recommend a Siamese. Of course, if mine is any indication of the brand on the whole, he won't eat the thing: he'll just shred it to pieces like some sick, twisted serial killer with overwhelming tendencies toward the perverse. In which case, you'll just have to pick up the bits - those you can find...
Truth, Justice. Or the American Way.
At work I have had cables go bad but all the bad ones had Power Over Ethernet (PoE) not just a regular everyday set-up. There is no movement to the cable it's locked away and there isn't any vibration to move it, the cables just sit without any movement.
I didn't tear the cable apart to see what failed and it was the cable not the connector jacks, I thought the power may have increased the rate of corrosion on the pins but they were OK.
It is DC too so it's not like AC where 60Hz may vibrate the cable wire and possibly cause failure, DC voltage would be steady but I'm not 100% sure how the power and the data work together on a PoE cable.
It's certainly not a big truck.
It's a perfect time for being wasted.
A perfect time to watch the stars.
- Burden Brothers, "Beautiful Night"
Thanks, some good questions and answers.
We have a network that does not works very well. It was never "designed". There were about 60 stand alone PC's. As time went on these were networked together. There are now over 400 PC's in our department alone. These are spread over multiple segments and subnets. We are not allowed to touch or monitor the network in any way.
I am trying to build a case for having a "proper" network installed.
You should cut up your cabling regularly to prevent strangulation.