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Wolfenstein Being Recalled In Germany
D1gital_Prob3 tips news that Activision's recently-released shooter, Wolfenstein, is being recalled in Germany due to the appearance of swastikas in the game. Such symbols are banned in Germany, and the German version of the game went through heavy editing to remove them. Apparently, they missed some. Activision said, "Although it is not a conspicuous element in the normal game ... we have decided to take this game immediately from the German market." Reader eldavojohn points out a review that has screenshot comparisons between the two versions of the game.
Here's a huge list of screenshots of differences between uncensored and german version
Some of the changes I found a little fun too, like the hand.
It's also interesting that the game is 18+ and germans are still not allowed to see any blood.
Here's the texture they apparently forgot to modify.
Seeing how many changes to the game and to the textures they've had to do, I'm not that surprised something that small slipped in.
The interesting thing now is if they're gonna remove that texture, remaster, repackage and send the new ones to all stores again, even more so because the game is over an month old now and the best sales are already gone.
Apparently this is the reason that it has to be pulled from the market. I don't know about you but I find the rationale for this type of censorship to be utterly absurd. So much for free speech.....
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
So just release a modified version of Wolfenstein that focuses on commies rather than nazis called "Trotskydoom" wherein the objective is to blow away all of the Bolsheviks that are confiscating food from the farmers to impose the famine of 1921 on rural Russians. I mean, come on, there isn't anywhere in the world the hammer and sickle are outlawed and the commies killed far more than the nazis did so it should be even more fun than Wolfenstein!
Seastead this.
It's been over 60 years, Germany. You don't have to worry about symbolism bringing back the Nazi party; most of them are dead. Your reasons for denying the existence of history are over now. It's time to give free speech a try.
A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
...the fact that it went through censorship makes the game even more noteworthy. I may give it a try, the uncensored version of course, looks delightfully gory.
but the invisible-to-my-eye Swastikas are not?
Don't you know that human beings are so impressionable that all they need is to see a small swastika and they will instantly volunteer to help load the boxcars? Clearly we need a benevolent government to protect us from such evil.
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
Didn't this happen to the first Wolfenstein also?
I wonder what actually happens to a German person if they ever catch a glimpse of a swastika. I assume it's something terrible, if their government goes to such great lengths to protect them from setting eyes on the symbol, even in fictional game. Does it flip some sort of switch that makes them slobbering monsters? I wonder... Somebody should try flashing swastikas at Germans and recording their horrendous transformations for science.
Stuff like this is one reason out of many I'm very wary of social progressives. Germany is a socially progressive state, and I don't think it's at all a coincidence that such censorship exists. Of course the social progressives are going to come out of the woodwork to justify it by scaring people up about the possibility of Nazis arising again and so on and so forth, but I guess sacrificing freedom in order to protect it is just a necessity to them. Individual freedom is on the down-and-out world-wide in the name of social consensus and thus niche groups (including nerds and gamers) suffer the most.
The Swastika didn't kill anyone.
A bunch of jackasses did. Why don't you just outlaw people planning to kill other people?
Do you think not having a Swastika will prevent a dictator or demagogue from choosing a different symbol to hide behind?
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Just replace all swastika's with pink and yellow happy faces. Done.
Table-ized A.I.
If it's so bad, why the hell do they censor it when the point of the game is to lay waste to everything it stands for?
Of course, rationality is far too much to expect from a censorship board.
Witness the USA's own B Obama and the renewed, continuing, supported powers under the Patriot Act and patriot Act II. There, fixed that for ya.
Shame the anti-Nazi folk couldn't give you a break
I'm anti-Nazi. Everyone here is (hopefully) anti-Nazi. That doesn't mean we should censor their symbols out of existence or try to ignore history.
As long as the game doesn't include a map to Poland, we should be ok.
Will they replace all the swastikas with walkie-talkie's? I always maintained in the bunker with Hitler and Eva, Hitler shot first. Did that get changed, too? And is the blood still green?
Kwisatz Haderach
Sell the spice to CHOAM
This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Don't mention the war. I mentioned it once, but I think I got away with it. So it's all forgotten now and let's hear no more about it. So that's two egg mayonnaise, a prawn Goebbels, a Herman Goering and four Colditz salads....no, wait a minute...I got confused because everyone keeps mentioning the war. -- Basil Fawlty
someone mod this guy troll. Spare us the clichéd rant against Bush. You'd have to be pretty ignorant of history to label Bush a fascist compared to guys like Hitler. Spare us the kool aid induced hyperbole. The guy is no longer in office. Take the 20 bumper stickers of your car and give it a rest already.
why in the world would I try to kill them? Damn Germans, still the same insensitive clods they were back in '37-'45.
Symbols do empower. And the weak and narrow-minded get all threatened-like. Swastikas, Crosses, Pentagrams, Joker-Faces -- none have power inherently, except that which the Already Scared and Uncertain impart to them.
Ignoring history (or hiding from it) seems to be the basis of these laws. It strikes me as hugely contradictory to outlaw both denying the holocaust and displaying a swastika. It's an unfortunate historical relic - Deal with it...
He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
It's freaking history. The U.S. didn't respond to the history of the civil war by banning any and all rebel markings. The symbols of Germany's history will always exist. Making it so that people don't see it as often changes nothing. But the existence of law that outlaws particular symbols or words are harmful. The next step is outlawing thoughts and feelings.
Does anyone else find it interesting that Germans would want to play a game where the main goal is to waste Germans, regardless of their terrible ideological stance? I find it odd that it's just the swastikas they are objecting to...But then, it's just a game, right?
On a side note (don't have a linky), I had a friend stationed in Germany that talked about the pet ownership laws. Depending on the breed of dog, there are building codes for the exact size of dog house required for the breed, which are part of the licensing and inspection process. Guess the moral of the story is the Germans sure like their laws.
You obviously never played Rush'n Attack comrade!
I only look human.
My mother is a halfling and my dad is an ogre, so that makes me an Ogreling
Basil Fawlty: Is something wrong ?
4th German: Will you please stop talking about the war ?
Basil Fawlty: Me ? You started it !
4th German: We did not start it.
Basil Fawlty: Yes you did, you invaded Poland.
Germany wants to ban Nazi symbols...so then people will forget what they look like...in another generation or two, the symbolism of swastikas could conceivably be forgotten and a whole new generation of young, impressionable Germans will be reintroduced to cliched, over-the-top shooters featuring plenty of Nazi regalia because no one will known what it looks like or be able to recognize it, therefore no one will know to ban it.
"And yet here in the US we still allow the Dixie Flag to be flown. Once you have lost the war you should not be able to continue using your flag."
Yep - and we can burn our official flag, too. Although nobody does it anymore - once it was declared legal the act lost all of its shock value.
"As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly." A. Carlson
I see you are in favor of censorship. How un-American of you.
There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
Just wanted to thank eldavojohn for the review link. Apparently the site is blocked due to adult/pornographic content on my work network. Which is always a nice message to see pop up in your browser...
The cancel button is your friend. Do not hesitate to use it.
BTW, I highly approve of people being allowed to fly the Confederate Battle Flag and the Nazi flag. People flying flags makes it easier to tell which people are the enemy.
There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
Yep - and we can burn our official flag, too. Although nobody does it anymore - once it was declared legal the act lost all of its shock value.
People still do it. The news just doesn't have an orgasm about it.
http://blog.dailycal.org/photo/2009/09/14/flag-burning/
http://www.inlandnewstoday.com/story.php?s=10259
http://blogs.seattleweekly.com/dailyweekly/2009/09/flag_burning_at_westlake.php
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
You simply have no idea of the significance of Nazi symbols in Europe; the US was never invaded, and the US Government took good care not to expose US citizens to the truth about the Allied invasion of Europe, concealing (for instance) the horrors of D-Day and the Bulge. Your Government takes good care that you don't know what war is like, especially since public reaction ended the ground war in Vietnam.
When you emerge from your bedrooms and basements, try visiting Germany and the east and actually learning some real history. Then you might understand why, to much of Europe, the use of Nazi symbols in a game is highly inappropriate. But, until you are grown up and actually know something about the world other than soundbites and games, shut the fuck up about civil liberties in a country about which you clearly know less than nothing. And yes, you do make me cross. Go talk to some of the American survivors of WW2, they might tell you a thing or two.
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
Errors occur when trying to load any of the review pages at schnittberichte.com, PHP codes indicating too many connections
Ignoring history (or hiding from it) seems to be the basis of these laws. It strikes me as hugely contradictory to outlaw both denying the holocaust and displaying a swastika. It's an unfortunate historical relic - Deal with it...
The irony here is that if you had a broader sense of history, you'd understand that of all the Axis powers of WWII that committed massive, systemized and widespread atrocities, only the Germans fully own up to their past and their history. While the Japanese have almost managed to sanitize their own history books, the Germans made a field trip to a concentration/extermination camp a mandatory part of their national education system, at least when I was there.
For example, the NPD (National Democratic Party) has had representatives in the national government for years now
Sorry -- the NPD only has seats on parliaments at the state level, not representatives in federal parliament. My mistake. But I know from friends in Germany that they have been really fighting for greater national recognition, and lots of people are worried about it.
Seriously, fuck you. And get back to me when you can say that on American television; until then, continue denying that anyone in America ever fucked.
-- Language is a virus from outer space.
Swastikas are religious symbols.
They were used long before Hitler rotated one 45 degrees.
In the 40's and 50's there was a real risk of folks who were Nazi sympathizers restarting the party and using it to take over the fairly democratic government of West Germany. So the laws against swastikas made perfect sense. Now, any German politician who proposes repealing those laws could easily be accused of trying to bring back the policies of the Third Reich and (thankfully, in my opinion) be promptly voted out of office.
Nazi-ism is and will probably always be a very touchy subject in Germany. Sort of how Confederate symbolism is a very touchy subject in the US. For instance, look at this piece about The Producers getting produced in Berlin.
I am officially gone from
[...] It strikes me as hugely contradictory to outlaw both denying the holocaust and displaying a swastika.
Would you care to argument what is the contradiction, or is the "hugely" already sufficient?
It's an unfortunate historical relic - Deal with it...
They are exactly doing that.
No one will comment about this? Did I miss the comment?
In PHP one should use pconnect() to connect to MySQL
Funny...I thought the Nazis lost...
Modern copyright is theft of culture from everyone and it retards the progress of the useful arts and sciences.
How far does this ban go? For example: the good Indiana Jones movies have a lot of Nazis and swastikas in them. Did they have to be editted for this ban?
The irony here is that if you had a broader sense of history, you'd understand that of all the Axis powers of WWII that committed massive, systemized and widespread atrocities, only the Germans fully own up to their past and their history. While the Japanese have almost managed to sanitize their own history books, the Germans made a field trip to a concentration/extermination camp a mandatory part of their national education system, at least when I was there.
None of the allies has owned up to their atrocities either. The firebombing of cities (like Dresden) by the British and Americans, Japanese internment camps in the US, soviet ethnic cleansing, etc. I don't think it's Verboten in order to ignore history either but rather they are so ashamed of that part of their history they have effectively turned it into a taboo. "Nie wieder" (never again) isn't just idle talk for them (based on the germans I know at least.)
If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error.
How is this a troll?
Bush #2 looked like a moron because he was a terrible public speaker. He either was a moron, or was smart and a dick.
Obama looks good and people love him, but all his actions are pointing to him being inept. He's too concerned with his own appearances (camera whore), and too afraid of his party turning on him after they lose seats in the midterm election.
None of the promised changes have taken place, despite the "YES WE CAN!" rally cries of the plebes who support him. Instead, we have continued on the path of erosion of rights and freedoms, massive debt, public takeover of private sectors, lack of transparency, pork and lobbying, kindergarten-level discourse, and in general, shitty, shitty government.
Obama is a politician through and through, not a leader.
[...] It strikes me as hugely contradictory to outlaw both denying the holocaust and displaying a swastika.
Would you care to argument what is the contradiction, or is the "hugely" already sufficient?
Sure. Denying the holocaust is illegal (and moronic). Forbidding the display of the swastika is hiding from the holocaust. Ignoring for the moment that it's an ancient symbol with multiple interpretations, in Germany it's mostly a reminder of a terrible period in their history. Forbidding its use, even in a game about killing Nazis, falls short of denying the holocaust, but is akin to hiding it.
It's an unfortunate historical relic - Deal with it...
They are exactly doing that.
No, they're not. They're burying their past because it's ugly. They have good reasons for doing that as there is still wide-spread antisemitism and a noticeable population of violent skin-heads (at least last time I was there) and they want to quell that. But, despite their good intentions, hiding legitimate artifacts from WWII (like banning swastikas from video games) is not dealing with the problem, it's burying it.
He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
Could California declare "no more swastikas" and force Activision to edit California editions of Wolfenstein, or would the U.S. overrule that decision?
I'm not sure how serious you were, but (sorry in advance for a car analogy) California already requires stricter emissions rules than most other states, and car makers of all kinds (US and imports) must comply in order to have their cars sold in that state.
Unless a state law is somehow challenged and found to be unconstitutional, it would stand. One would guess that the display of swastikas would be protected speech (and thus laws against it unconstitutional). However, given the attention to "hate crimes" apparently gaining a lot of focus, you never know.
Does anyone know if the German laws make exceptions based on religious beliefs?
Genuine curiosity.
sudo apt-get lost
The usual "lol germany u suck 4 censurship nazi symbols r ok!!!1!" kneejerk reaction by non-Germans.
Graduate of the LeRoy Funkified Badass School of Soul.
Millions of innocent jews and others were tortured and killed by members of the Nazi party. It was evil, and it should be condemned.
But it happened. It's part of reality, and it's something we should learn from. Denying its existence (or acknowledging it in a way) by censoring it seems counterproductive to me. Let's no stick our heads in the sand. There are lots of "symbols of evil" that the Germans do not ban. People see them and are told they represent evil, and they can be taught a lesson about evil.
And let's not forget that the swastika was an ancient Hindu religious symbol that had very positive connotations. People should be taught its original meaning and how the Nazis desecrated it.
WWII happened in the 1940's. The Germans are good people. As a culture, they have always been inventive and industrious. And, like every other nation on earth, they have a sense of superiority. And a long time ago, some people took that sense of superiority too far. In a very Microsoft-like way, they dealt with their "competitors" by crushing them, rather than trying to a better job. (Note that I don't think Microsoft are nearly as evil as the Nazis. Bill Gates is excessively competitive, but he's also a philanthropist and deserves recognition for it.) The Germans and everyone else in the world have to grow up and get past this fear of the past.
If you're a white American, and your ancestors owned slaves, should you be ashamed of yourself? No. You can be ashamed of your ancestors, and you can be ashamed of all of the cruelty and torture that went along with it. But you yourself know that slavery was wrong. You're not responsible for it. You can get past it without pretending it didn't happen.
But that's just my opinion.
you should probably rethink that statement some, nazi socialism is as valad a government platform as any other
You seem to imply that all political platforms are equally valid. Not everyone would agree with you.
Downmodding is the refuge of the weak. Don't downmod, make a better argument!
The German people are very touchy about the subject, quite understandably. They may have gone overboard to prevent a relapse, but consider the following:
Imagine the KKK were to gain a majority of the House, Senate, and gain the Presidency. Imagine the military leaders are also members of the KKK. The government then violently cracks down on dissent and encourages vandalism of any property that does not belong to a 'white' person. Soon, members of other races are rounded up into forced labor and publicly hanged. The government then invades neighboring nations (with the stated intent of annexing them) and ignites a war that spans the globe.
After it was all over, do you not expect there would be a MASSIVE backlash to prevent the KKK from returning? Whether this was the correct decision or not, it's something that the Germans are as guarded against preventing as Americans are for slavery, if not more so.
Write your representatives! Repeal the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics!
Yeah it's too bad for Dresden, where, you know, munitions were being manufactured and all. It's not like the Germans made it a point to bomb civilian London nightly or anything.
Why don't you just outlaw people planning to kill other people?
I believe that is called something like "Conspiracy to commit murder", and I do believe that generally that is considered illegal.
The Swastika didn't kill anyone.
Actually, German law doesn't accuse swastika of any crimes, nor does it ban the symbol outright.
But it does ban the use of swastika as a symbol of the Nazi Party.
Considering their 20th century history, the law is quite sensible.
It is people who lack the actual knowledge of the law that are creating issues, like the cases where they've equated it's use as a anti-Nazi symbol to that of a Nazi symbol. (see link above)
But hey...
At least they didn't ban snow globes or made the entire world take of their shoes before they are allowed to enter the plane. Right?
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
brilliant response. You, my friend, are a word-smith.
Now having heard that social progressives are more into censorship .. than others etc..
I want to state some facts about germany and the background, and in the end my own opinion:
The swastika, also the posing in the public
doing the "Nazi salute", and public saying of "Heil Hitler" with a non-documentary or historic background are prohibitted.
If you do a historic documentation about the NAZIs the use of the Swastika is allowed.
But also building up organizitions and naming them
after their Nazi counterparts is prohibitted,
like
- "NSDAP" the Party also known as the "NAZI"-party
- "HJ" (Young Hitlericans(male))
- "BDM" (Young Hitlericans(female)
- "SS" (Sturm Staffel)
or stating that the holocaust never happend,
also known as "Holocaust Luege" - holocaust lie.
b.) Are there Nazis still in Germany active ?
Yes, they are. In Germany, we have two (bigger) extreme right wing parties:
- NPD (Nationaldemokratische Partei Deutschlands) :: Republicans)
(nationaldemocratic party germany)
- REP (Republikaner
The NPD has some MPs in east german non-federal parliaments. Some days ago they also managed to reenter one of the parliaments in a row.
That's a premiere because anytime else they entered a parliament they were out on the next election. Mostly because their members had stolen
computers, office equipment and embezzled money for themselves(it was meant for covering expenses due to political work).
Funny isn't it, for a party which stands for law and order, more order than law I guess.
So these people mostly turn out to be total boneheads, the elitebrain leaders within those parties are few.
But they are connected and involved to non-offical/underground/forbidden organizations like the "Freie Kameradschaften"
sometimes those organizations gather weapons
and explosives, for terrorist acts.
The members of these "gangs" are often young and violent, they gather in flashmobs and have
hobbies like beating up foreigners, just for being foreign, sometimes they kill, or
hunt their prey in such a threatening way that the hunted people try to get into a safehouse by kicking in a glass window, accidently cutting themselves and bleeding to death.
If you have black, dark skin or look like a gipsy
you can end up as their prey, but sometimes because you look funny or do not speak german.
And if you are jewish they demolish your property or paint graffities like "SS" or "Jude verrecke"
(this means Jew die, in an extreme unpleasant way)
onto your property, synagogues and graveyards.
And all this, happens in germany still, mostly
in eastern germany - there are dangerous hotspots
where this happens, outside of these hotspots
it's mostly safe.
The prohibitions are instated to battle those
extreme right parties.
Please keep this in mind, when discussing
those NAZI-topics.
To get things into the right perspective, for germany those violent acts are _not_ common,
most foreign visitors describe germany as a
"clean and friendly country", and to be clear most of my fellow citizens are no NAZIs and won't do any harm.
But recent studies suggest 10 percent of the allowed voters can imagine themselves to vote
for extreme right parties.
So most of us try that those new Nazis will not ever rise up again, as it happend in '33.
My personal opinion about this topic is:
I think it's wrong that the holocaust-lie is prosecuted by law, because I want to know what
idiot I face from the beginning.
Perhaps after my lines below you can imagine why this is a very sensitive spot in our history even today.
Six Million people dead - selected to live or to die, after they left the train on the basis of their condition. Those who could do work, or were technically skilled were forced to work very low on food, with no medical support, so it was death by work. Those who were weak - children, elderly
...of the schnittberichte article? I can get the basic gist of what's going on (blood textures, exploding heads, Nazi symbols and whatnot) but my German absolutely sucks and I know I'm missing a million things.
How does one even define a swastika fully ? It is inherent in any four square objects that meet, it must be possible to pick out swastika-like features from an aerial map of any German city. And what about stylizations like three-legged Isle of Man swastikas or curvy swastikas or rainbow-colored swastikas for gay nazi pride. I just don't see how the law can be properly enforced. Or is there a EuroNorm swastika ?
Nullius in verba
Now, any German politician who proposes repealing those laws could easily be accused of trying to bring back the policies of the Third Reich and (thankfully, in my opinion) be promptly voted out of office.
Unfortunately that doesn't seem to people like Schäuble who actually try to bring those policies back.
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
Activision is. And they have good reasons to do so: risk management. Yes, they could try and argue that the use of Nazi symbols is artistic and thus exempted from the verbot. But there remains a significant risk that the game might still be verboten, so they create a toned-down version for the german market to avoid an R-rating (which they would also get for extreme violence and splatter elements and which would mean no public advertising of the game).
Germany doesn't ban Nazi symbols in all cases, glorious basterds had no problem using them. But it does ban them when there is a chance that they are used to strengthen the elements that want to revive the thousand-year-reich...
None of the allies has owned up to their atrocities either. The firebombing of cities (like Dresden) by the British
We don't? Because, I'm fairly sure I remember learning about the firebombing of Dresden in school in the UK, including seeing pictures of the aftermath.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
Hitler was but a spectre projected into this dimension by his moustache.
...
This is not quite true. Hitler was assigned to the (existing) German Workers Party party by the government (specifically the Reichswehr) to see if they were a threat. He decided that they weren't, but could be used as a platform for his ideas. He did not found the party, he co-opted it. The anti-semitism was there before Hitler joined, and was what made the platform so attractive to the populous: People love having someone to blame in times of economic depression. Imagine replacing 'Jew' with 'Banker' in some of the Nazi propaganda, and you'll have a platform that a lot of people would rally around now, and the current recession is a lot less severe than the economic climate in Germany before Hitler came to power.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
Please note that it was not the german law-enforcement who ordered the recall, Activision did that on their own.
No. That is not the reason for these laws. The reason for these laws is that the Germans are trying to avoid repeating history.
While many Slashdotters are indeed in the hardcore libertarian camp, even they must acknowledge the power of mass media and its influence, good and bad, over public opinion. Look at the effect of Hollywood films, from the trivial to the profound. What do you think would happen if blockbuster remakes of films like "Birth of a Nation" or "The Eternal Jew" were allowed to become the major summer hits next year? Are you telling me that the public would rationally choose to reject such racism? I love to believe that, I really would.
Remember what started the whole global warming hysteria? It was that movie(or was it two) about super freezing storms or flood or something. It was a major hit. The Day After Tomorrow, I think. The science had been screaming the results for 40 years and nobody had batted an eyelid. After that summer, everybody was a convert. I am NOT using this as an argument against the reality of human induced climate change. What I am saying is that the media has the ability to very rapidly shift public opinion and temperament on more issues that just this.
There are other examples. The original Birth of a Nation lead to the revival of the Ku Klux Klan. The China Syndrome, released contemporaneously with the Three Mile Island incident, has halted the expansion of nuclear power generation to this day. Jurassic Park popularised dinosaurs as never before, ultimately forcing creationism to rebrand itself as intelligent design. More recently, that Zeitgeist crock of shit has managed to snare more than a few supposedly educated people, some of them around here.
Movies can literally transform public opinion en-masse in a single summer season. Their largest audience is young impressionable people, the traditional movers of society. They sit and immerse themselves mentally and emotionally in an audio-visual presentation for over an hour. It affects people more deeply than they know. Frankly, I think that the immersion experienced in movies is greater than the immersion in video games or books. This summer people are going to watch a film about the July 20th plot to assassinate Hitler. It's more than likely going to be a story about good guys verses evil guys. That's what people are going to take from it, despite the fact that most of the would be assassins were Wehrmacht officers intimately involved in the many Nazi atrocities on the eastern front. The film will become history and the truth will be forgotten.
The sad fact is that if films, or games, or TV shows glorifying the Nazi regime were to be allowed to be shown en masse, not only Germany, but a great many other Western countries would recede into fascism and genocide. And yes, the whole process can be precipitated by one or two films. Just look at what one talk show host like Glenn Beck is able to do to public opinion over one summer season. I don't want to wake up one September to find that my neighbors are all spouting neofascist slogans and marching in fascist bands or whatever other mass movement these films can persuade them to engage in.
Yes, I do think that the German government goes overboard in censorship in many cases, including this one. But you fail to understand the power, influence and history of Nazi imagery, and to say that the Germans are ignorant of that history or somehow hiding it is a profoundly ignorant comment to make.
May the Maths Be with you!
All rights are socially constructed and agreed by a community, there are no such things as inalienable rights. They are not laws of physics/nature. Try demanding your right to life in a pool full of hungry sharks or on the edge of a live volcano and see if the sharks or the volcano agree to uphold your rights out of philosophical principle.
Specific societies/communities/countries may declare that within their authority there are rights that they consider inalienable/ religious/sacred/ not open for debate but step beyond that society and you will find this is no longer true.
Try telling a US judge that you come from a land of cannibals so it's your inalienable right to hunt down and eat other humans. I'm sure they would tell you "in your place maybe but not in our country, pal!"
Maybe there are beliefs you adhere to regardless of what other people think but alienable rights - philosophical rights of others that all humans, sharks, volcanos, gas giants etc must adhere to? I don't think this is so.
How about the Indiana Jones movies, etc. Are those also banned in German as well then (or edited)?
Death to Smoochy?
Anything else with that particular symbol (whether glorifying it or opposing it)?
Ergo, we should ban anything that might give people, you know, ideas.
Nobody with even a tiny bit of clue orders the censored version anyway.
As with all old "cut/censored" games and even movies here in Germany, you usually either order a uncut version from somewhere else (Austria, UK, etc.), there is a patch to restore cut content, or you simply pull a English version off the net. Sometimes people even recombine a English game with German speech and text.
Game developers are aware of that, and very often, even in German versions, the Swastika-Files are still there, and you just have to patch the EXE or something similarly small.
So the whole thing is a non-issue here.
Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
Yeah it's too bad for Dresden, where, you know, munitions were being manufactured and all. It's not like the Germans made it a point to bomb civilian London nightly or anything.
First off, Dresden had industry which was of minor importance at best and a lot were already moved out of the city, not at all comparable to a strategic target such as London. Secondly there's a word for leveling a city (indiscriminate bombing of civilians, some report specifically targeting civilian over infrastructure targets) to achieve a minor goal : warcrime.
If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error.
I'll take your word for it. I was led to believe (by documentaries here on the continent) it's rather obscure and most people don't know that its morality is seen as controversial. But so much the better.
If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error.
They could be banning burcas or big crosses, just because they are sons of the "revolution".
Even if the revolution killed more than any burca or big cross ever has.
Earlier this year while preparing for a move I put some old Lucas Arts games up for sale on eBay.
Day of the Tentacle, Sam and Max, Indiana Jones, etc...
Well the weird thing was how the Indiana Jones auctions took off and I started getting all these international bids on it. It complicated things for me since I wasn't familiar with international shipping but anyways, I checked and they were all German. HUH! Then I realized for the first time that Indiana Jones must be completely banned in Germany.
Of course with Kingdom of the Crystal Skulls it really IS for their best that it remain banned...
Cwm, fjord-bank glyphs vext quiz
Please note that it was not the german law-enforcement who ordered the recall, Activision did that on their own.
But would Activision have done it if not for fear of reprisal from the government, if it was merely a social taboo rather than a legal one?
But would Activision have done it if not for fear of reprisal from the government, if it was merely a social taboo rather than a legal one?
of course not. but thats not the point. activision engaged in self-censorship to avoid the risk. they coudld have chosen to fight for the artistic freedom to use the symbols (and imho would have had a significant chance to succeed). "inglorious basterds" was not censored due to its historic relevance.
but the game remains playable without the nazi symbols and without the splatter and gore. anybody who insists that these elements are essential for his enjoyment of the game should get therapy...
German government becomes Fascist in trying to prevent a resurgence of Fascism.
Fascism is trotted out as a way to avoid rational dialog once again in a Slashdot forum (fascism, fascism, fascism).
News at 11.
Ignoring history (or hiding from it) seems to be the basis of these laws.
The funny thing about the censoring of the game is that, the game itself is about the "good guys" (player) kicking the ass of the "bad guys" (Swastika-happy) so that good triumph against evil.
I guess that, even if I was German, I would fill realized by killing the bunch of assholes that committed such atrocities (at least, doing it in a virtual world).
It would be a nice "spin" to give by a magazine, putting this image-change/censorship as a statement of "we do not allow you to kill/attack the National Socialists".
Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'
Actually by that time there was no industry left. Furthermore they didn't target the factories only they just flat out bombed everything.
But this is war, war is always a crime. On both sides.
"Freiheit ist immer auch die Freiheit des Andersdenkenden" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1871 - 1919
What nonsense. If the government were afraid of that, they'd put much harsher penalties on displaying nazi symbols, don't you think?
Not that I give them much credit, after all they do use that same argument to justify their Internet censorship laws (and I'm not joking nor exaggerating. At least one of the responsible politicians is on record for claiming that seeing child pornography could turn you into a pedophile.)
But one has to use the proper criticism, and this isn't it. The law is in place to make sure nazi symbolism is and stays "dishonoured" and keeping it on the record that we don't want to see the stuff again. Not even in a game where you're shooting at it.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsNLbK8_rBY
are we the baddies?
By banning such symbols, doesn't this give them more power? I mean, a symbol, or a book, or a movie have no power in themselves, only if we fear them do they have power over us. By banning them, the government is telling us to fear them. In the case of the swastika, neo-nazis must feel empowered that their symbol is so feared. Remember "Day of the Dove" from the original Star Trek series? Until the Klingons and Feds decided not to empower the alien entity with their hatred, they were able to laugh at it and make it go away.
600+ comments on /. and I don't see any deep analysis. Hundreds of philosophical/political/religious/etc books have been written on signs and symbols (even the Dan Brown novels in essence are about symbols) and since I don't have the time to read them all, I am not convinced on some issues. I'd certainly like a linguist or a semantics expert to jump in the discussion, play the game and clarify the following issues:
1. Do symbols have power? Can they affect human behaviour? Can they poison children's/teenagers' souls? Should parents, ministries or Governments be worried on the circulation and use of symbols?
2. What precisely is the power of symbols due to? Why do state and interpersonal laws give them such importance?
3. Is the depiction of the swastika in the game pro or against fascism?
4. Is the killing of Nazis in a computer game (or a movie) a true punishment or an attempt to victimize them? Especially if the game is not accompanied by a declaration of the authors stating that "all actions against Nazis depicted in this game are meant to educate the player against fascism and violence and pro democracy and peace"?
5. When bad Nazis (or serial murders or any criminals) appear in a Hollywood movie played by celebrities, what is the probability of an audience member considering them as heroes or models for their own lives? One in a thousand? One in a million?
6. Would you make love to a girl/boy having a swastika tattoo?
I know I may be considered just a troll, but IMHO nothing is as simple or innocent as it seems. And if I had kids, I'd certainly monitor what games they play on their PCs.
How was London a strategic target again? Because bombing homes and buildings within close proximity to homes would kill British civilians and cause many others to lose morale? I'm sorry but this strange contrarian stance in favor of Germany doesn't actually make sense because the axis was leveling civilian cities as well (London? Paris? Everywhere they invaded?)
Lol yeah totally dude because just like the Banks, the Jews were actually extremely responsible for the depression.. oh wait no sorry in America we get upset about the people who actually do hurt us, not scapegoat everything onto someone else
Well, It's the capital and so it holds a lot of the administration, archives, symbolically important buildings and sites. You'd expect an enemy to strike against your capital if only to show they can. It's also a port and a distribution hub. And I'm not pro German, in fact the city I live in was hit by v2 rockets *hard* (we were a strategic port too) and I don't dispute both sides were bastards. The operative word being "both".
The same goes for any war. In fact I don't think there's a country in Europe left that hasn't committed despicable acts in one of their wars (maybe Lichtenstein).
If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error.