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BSA Says 41% of Software On Personal Computers Is Pirated
An anonymous reader writes "Individuals are turning to P2P networks and auction sites in staggering numbers to acquire or transfer illegal software and in doing so are harming the economy whilst exposing themselves to malware, identity theft and criminal prosecution, according to a report from the Business Software Alliance. Beyond P2P and auction site piracy, the report also draws correlations between Internet piracy and the spread of malware such as viruses, trojans and spyware, which often exploit vulnerabilities in illegal software that does not benefit from security updates provided by manufacturers. Although the correlation is not universal, geographies with high instances of software piracy suffer from high instances of malware."
While you're guessing with such precision, why not choose 42% and grab more nerd eyes?
are true. We'll leave it as an exercise for the reader to decide which.
Karma: Chameleon - mostly influenced by bad '80s New Wave music
Their first graph (which is in percentages, but they don't label the scale LOL) shows remarkably low rates of malware, and an alleged piracy rate (whatever that is) that is 4-10x higher.
Maybe they should check out http://garwarner.blogspot.com/
BSA+RIAA+MPAA=organizations that make up stories and wait for their fake "facts" to be reused by their legislative bought henchmen.
E
Then far be it from me to not meet their expectations.
"Hey kids! Remember that new game you wanted? Well, I need to get us up to quota!"
Because malware never comes with legal software...
Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
Not 42%?
Banu
Speaking as an MBA, their unsubstantiated numbers and pretty graphs is good enough for me. I'm going to delete 41% of the software on my machines to make sure I'm not a crook!
It's NOT me! It's the meds! I'm on 1000mg of Fukitol.
If the BSA was genuinely concerned about software piracy, they'd be actively promoting free and open alternatives.
"I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
Anyone up for a campout?
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
Most Americans live on McDonalds and foods filled with chemicals.... because no one has given the public anything else on such a large scale that is easily accessible and affordable in a timely manner.
and McDonalds still makes a shit load of cash...
Here's how I read the summary:
"Retail software is so full of bugs that you should run out and buy it immediately!"
What a lousy article - all puff and no content:
- The FA discusses online auction sites as a "hotbed" of trading illegal software. But it doesn't say whether the BSA distinguish between online auctions offering cracked copies for download, pirated installation media or perfectly legitimate resale of software which the seller has no further use for.
- There's no real explanation of how they reached this figure - do they assume a single person using a torrent installs the software once? Twice? Never? Once then decides they don't really need it so uninstalls it?
- Even if the BSA did explain how they reached this figure, how do we know that their methodology is sound and gives reasonably accurate answers? AFAIK there is no methodology that is generally known to give accurate answers to the question of "how many PCs have application X installed, where X may or may not phone home and there may or may not be cracked versions of X in the wild which modify any existing phone-home functionality?"
Thing is, the BSA must know that these numbers are not reliable and that they can't get reliable numbers. I think the reason this article exists is the BSA are seeding the news wires. Who wants to bet that the next thing they'll do is lobby representatives in governments around the world using these bullshit figures and that's the only reason the figures exist?
Not one single program on my computer is pirated.
It's all purchased (XP, MS Office) or open source (firefox) or free-to-use (Opera). I think the BSA's 41% estimate is brown and smelly due to having formerly occupied the lower regions of their bodies.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
Since the BSA is only concerned with business software, what they probably mean is that 41% of copies of MS Office on home computers are not legitimate copies, mostly copied from work. If those people didn't have a pirate copy of Office, that would probably be using OO.org or some other free equivalent, they wouldn't be paying for it.
(I guess a lot of people have academic versions of Office, and other app;ications like Adobe's suite, and they no longer are students so I guess that makes them pirates too.
That the vast majority of PC owners I know go 'what's that?' when you mention P2P, torrents etc. Sure, there's a hardcore that use it heavily, usually younger sorts (get off moi laaaand!) but most people I know have nothing but paid for sofwtare or more usually, tons of 'free' crap they've downloaded from some pop up advert or got from a magazine cover disk.
Even amongst the hardcore, I'd wager a fair chunk are moving towards opensource/free anyway. My laptop has OpenOffice, Firefox, Thunderbird, Aptana, NetBeans, iTunes, Audiograbber, VMware Player and any number of other free (to individuals) but fine sofwtare products.
I want a list of atrocities done in your name - Recoil
Maybe one reason for such a poor correlation between alleged copyright infringement and malware rates is that most who engage in and enable copyright infringement actually do have higher ethics than some companies which deliberately add creepy spyware and malware-like features to their applications in the name of controlling what user's do. Indeed, I wonder if some even explicitly choose copyright infringement sources simply to get spy and malware disabled versions of certain applications.
Maybe they have never considered the fact that there is a correlation between the state of the economy and the amount of pirated software. Maybe they should consider that their prices are far too high to be able to afford. As for harming the economy, my money tends to go towards food rather than software. It isn't like I am saving the money and pirating software, I don't have any money to save.
Oh, but wait... it's a BSA report, which means anyone with a brain already KNOWS it's bullshit. Unfortunately, that means most members of Congress thinking it's true, and I suspect that's their intended audience. It's certainly a not "report" aimed at us. Their goal is to get more laws passed to make them and their masters money, extracted by law from everyone whether they have ever used any of the software in question or not. Another tax on blank media, anyone? How about one on hard drives, CPUs and other components? Pay by the megabyte for connectivity, because obviously we're stealing software? All they have to do is convince Congress-critters it's a good idea, which seems to be shockingly easy to do if you supply enough cash.
The other 59% of disk space occupied by legal software consists entirely of Adobe Reader.
MMO Vampire Role Playing
Thunderbird, Firefox, Chrome, OOO3.1.1, NetBeans, no, none of it's illegal.
And I have paid-for software too: SQL Server 2008, Toad, AVG...
What do you mean, something's missing? Not that I know of.
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
I'm willing to bet that most of the people who are pirating software are doing so on Windows & Mac platforms. If the BSA wants to stop software piracy, why not promote Linux instead?
Bull. Shit. Artists.
The cost of that cleanup, of course, will be borne by taxpayers, not industry.
Even on my parents' Windows machine, easily 60% of the software (not counting the OS, which really should qualify as 50% on its own) is FOSS. The real problem is that so many of these people are trying to build a business around solving problems that were solved 10 years ago, and dozens of times since.
I'm surprised it's so low.
Even according to the UK Government's recent consultation, about restricting Internet access of suspected filesharers, the figures of estimated damages due to software piracy is a staggering 144 times that of music, TV and films from filesharing:
The BPI claim P2P file-sharing costs the UK music industry £180m pa (2008) while IPSOS gives a loss in the UK for TV and films of £152m (2007). ... Figures for software - the biggest of the creative industries - are difficult to obtain, but it is estimated by the Business Software Alliance that the global business software industry suffers annual losses of some US$48 billion out of a total market of US$450 billion due to piracy. The bulk of these losses is caused by unauthorised copying of software within businesses, rather than by P2P.
( http://www.berr.gov.uk/files/file51703.pdf )
So even though the Government has no reason to speak favourably of filesharing in this document, it still acknowledges that most software piracy is within businesses. So why does the BSA now focus on individuals and filesharing?
Note that even if we assumed every download was a lost sale(!), that means the upper bound for damages is $974 million for a six month period, according to the figure in the article, a fraction of the BSA's own estimate for commercial piracy damages, at $24 billion over six months.
the report also draws correlations between Internet piracy and the spread of malware such as viruses, trojans and spyware
Oh, and Government plans to reduce the bandwidth of suspected downloaders - thus making it hard or impossible to download the large Windows security updates - won't effect the spread malware at all...
"...is the Online Auction Tracking System" previously used to prevent piracy of online FPS titles, software pirates have come to fear Quakers' OATS.
I think it depends on the user. You have users who call their friend/family member/etc when they have a question, and clearly are not the ones pirating. Then you have the people who know what they are doing (and from my personal experience) quite often do. The reasons everyone gives are different, but there is often a good bit of it. And they are just as likely to install it on that friend/familiy member's computer when they call needing help with Office or whatever ('Oh, this is an old verson, let me upgrade you).
I've mentioned it before. I have a friend that almost refuses to buy music when they can use whatever the current flavor of P2P is to get it. I had a different friend that gladly would download the newest games from torrents and play them. Not to mention the various other indiscretions I or other friends have done. Several people still will email me with a 'hey, do you happen to have a serial number for...' These aren't college students or poor workers from some low-end job. They are often well paid professionals (often in IT). They just don't want to spend the money. It's not some sense of 'information should be free!' or 'software shouldn't be patented!'. They just don't want to spend the money, so while these reports may not have numbers that everyone believes, I certainly have seen it day to day. Just without a metric that I can quote.
I will shred my adversaries. Pull their eyes out just enough to turn them towards their mewing, mutilated faces. Illyria
Correlation does not imply causation.
As a Ubuntu user, I can say precisely 0% of the software on my PC is pirated AND I have no issues with malware, viruses, trojans, etc. (according to ClamAV anyway). In fact, probably 99% of the software I run is free & open source. The only proprietary software I use for the time being is Adobe Flash and the ATI Radeon driver, both legally obtained.
I know we'd all like to say that there is no link between illegally copied software (I refuse to use the word "pirated") and malware, but I'm sure we've all seen instances where relatives' PCs got infected by software downloaded from Kazaa, etc.
What really surprises me is that, when given the choice between maybe catching viruses or getting prosecuted for downloading/installing illegal software and using the free and legal open source equivalent, so many people still choose to download their software illegally. I have to say, as a full-time user and software developer, Ubuntu's offering is really, really well put-together and a pleasure to use.
before BSA claims that 100% of software on Linux is stolen?
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Well:
1. Is simply not true. Adware and spyware are common in commercial software.
2. Also not true - the first thing a pirate does is strip out the crap.
3. If you *have* paid for it, it could be infected. That's why you scan everything.
This article is BS. There are probabilistic elements in software piracy and malware, but those statistics came from /dev/random
If you know where to get your pirated software, then it's more than the distributors honor is worth, to let anything dodgy get into their release.
The bit about "geographies with high instances of software piracy suffer from high instances of malware"; Ok that is probably true, and in S.Korea I don't think you can call legally sell it as a "computer" if it isn't full to the brim with malware.
...that they transported so much software on the high seas...
Seriously. Whenever someone uses that word in that context, I immediately stop reading, and laugh at him, for the retard that he is.
Including every commenter here, who already bought into their FUD.
It's like the children of the three Stooges, to look at the whole communication from the outside...
Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
- If you've paid for the software, it's highly unlikely that it will contain malware or adware.
Unless it comes from Sony or Microsoft...
1) Can't measure it - you can't measure how many people downloaded your software through illicit channels because, by definition, those channels are usually unmonitored, don't keep logs, and aren't subject to easy investigation. You might be able to measure a particular computer at a particular point in time but any measurement being done on "behalf of" the BSA is going to be worthless. You'd have to randomly monitor thousands of PC's in dozens of categories (home, business, mobile, poweruser, etc.) and get permission to report on any "unlicensed" software there, and then chase it up with the company concerned to see if it was actually unlicensed (rather than just using the wrong VLK or similar for convenience).
2) Can't compare it - the chances of those metrics being stable across such countries as Turkey and the US are unlikely.
3) Can't correlate it - Just because malware goes up with pirated installations doesn't mean anything - it just means that the pirates prefer to download porn which may or may not introduce malware... it doesn't mean the malware is in the pirate software.
Statistics are worthless quoted out of context. We have no idea what was measured, how, why, what bias was introduced by the measures, or anything else.
To be honest, I imagine the percentage to be *higher*... I've seen dozens of people with Winzip on their computers who haven't actually bought it but they heard they needed it to open ZIP files. I've seen dozens of work laptops come back with full installations of football games, office, etc.... technically that's copyright infringement ("software piracy") because it's a breach of the license. I expect the true figure to be nearer 80 or 90%.
But then you have the reasoning that it's somehow linked to malware in any way other than "people get malware too"... almost 100% of the home PC's I see have items of malware on them (again, depending on your definition).
If you want to say "copyright infringement is bad and puts £5 on the cost of every game you buy, or £50 on the price of Office", people would listen. Making up bollocks statistics about nonsense correlations just makes me switch off and let's me know that, actually, you're just trying to scare me into buying things because you can't think any other way would work (and thus don't understand software "piracy" at all). I don't pirate, either at work or at home. I just move things to open-source if I can't afford the real package, and I never buy anything without a demo. No demo, no trial version, no purchase. I also don't buy anything with DRM that interferes with my usage of the product. I'm not alone.
Stop spending your time analysing vague correlations and look at those statistics about why people pirate in the first place. Almost always it's cost, convenience and because a certain percentage of those "pirate" downloads are actually your own customers just trying to get the bloody thing working (I've had to break DRM schemes in work in order to be able to install compliant to our licensing - it was tons easier than our negotiating with the company in question to do the same thing). Be open with those stats and then things get interesting: How many pirates, on average, end up revealing upon further investigation that they *already* own the software in question, but the DRM got in the way? Or that they lost the install disk? Or that they needed original media to recover their PC's and it wasn't supplied by the manufacturer? I've seen all three of those and even done the second myself - I needed a particular install disk and it was an emergency and the person I was working for didn't have the original disk to hand. After I ensured that they were entitled to the licences, I just downloaded one and used that instead (after checksum verification). Does that contribute as being "another" PC with pirate software?
Good. With these numbers they're admitting this is beyond control of any legal measure.
Bull. Shit. Artists.
In. William. Shatner's. Voice.
I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
"Individuals are turning to P2P networks and auction sites in staggering numbers to acquire or transfer illegal software and in doing so are harming the economy whilst exposing themselves to malware, identity theft and criminal prosecution, according to a report from the Business Software Alliance. "
Wow so this is is one of the cause of why our economy is going down the shitter; it's not the corporate corruptions, misused funds by the government, or banks handing out loans people can't paid back, but software pirating is what did us in "that's the straw that broke the camels' back"
Obviously, no-one outside their little clique thinks this is important or they'd be taking action. The software vendors don't seem too bothered either - or they would have developed stronger ways to protect their stock in trade. It's not as if that would be outside the bounds of possibility. So who, exactly, is this particular stir of the FUD aimed at?
politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
harming the economy
Right, like they would have bought it if they couldn't pirate it.
I love this bullshit. As you say, there's no way of telling how many percent of those who pirated would actually buy the software at hand. In my experience often people pirate because they're lazy, meaning they know some program from a while back and instead of looking for a free alternative they just pirate it because they're used to it. But also sometimes they actually need that program, however more often they don't.
Also it's very easy to throw expressions such as "harming the economy" around. But let's think about what this means. If, and we have to remember the big if here, there would be a significant increase in such sales -- instead of people looking for free and/or open source alternatives (which by the way is already happening, anyway let's continue with the hypothesis) -- then in an international aspect this would harm the economy as the national currency would be weakened due to less trade. HOWEVER (one of those important caps moments) -- don't forget that piracy is also an international phenomenon, meaning if all countries have 10% piracy it would be -- in terms of economic balance, exactly the same as if we had 0% -- or 80%.
What about national level? Well at national level the currency would merely shift towards those selling the software, as they collect the fees.
What about the personal economy? Well you would have a slightly stronger currency (given that other countries ignore piracy) yet you would still, at a personal level, make a loss.
Now let's ignore the moral aspects here, you can yell theft all you want but that's another discussion. This discussion was about the economy and how someone tries to bullshit you from this angle to change your mind. Change your mind for the right reasons, if you consider it theft then fine, but don't eat whatever crap that's thrown at you. By using the expressions such as "economy", a very big machine which can be difficult to understand, you can persuade somebody into a lot of things, since ultimately they will tend to feel stupid because they cannot break down the concept and understand how this hurts the economy -- you see no explanation is given, and that's the point of the argument. So if you feel stupid, that's even more of a reason to ask the question: why?
I am the lawn!
Uuum, there are two kinds of software on my computers: The kind that is open source (literally thousands of packages) and the kind that is pulled off of BitTorrent.
Software never was a product. And it never will be. It's a service. A service done once. And that work is what you pay for. Not the result. Because that would be the sick twisted view that Gates introduced back then. (Yep, you can thank him for that too.)
Think if it like we all throwing money in a pot, to pay for a big software project. Then if there is no more work to do, and we don't think that what was done is worth more than what we already payed, we stop paying.
And copies are free for all. (But you could ask for money, to get some of that back that you payed yourself.)
Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
BSA Says 41% Software On Personal Computers Is Pirated
Well customers choose linux because Apps are easier to pirate. Steve Winfield of Microsoft's anti-FOSS Partner Technology Team (a.k.a. Delta Force) says so. It must be true.
In other news, sources not partnered with Microsoft announce that Microsoft's desktop market share has dipped down to 59%. Between Conficker and Internet banking exploits, it could happen.
Seriously, better check the BSA's definition of 'pirated'. Previous announcements like this turned out to classify any non-MS software as 'pirated'.
Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
Most of people around me
who are not nerds
hardly understand what a "program" really is.
and fewer know where to download "free" software.
Even less know where to get pirate software.
And most of humanity is like these people I know.
I hardly believe this 42% figure.
However it has been known for ages (80's)
that pirate software often come with unwanted "goodies".
The world belongs to those who get up early. - I'm far from being the king of Earth then
Not one single program on my computer is pirated.
Not one single program on my computer is paid for.
Vista 64 Ult/Win7 64 Ult, Office 2007 Pro, VS 2005-2008 Std, MSSQL 2005-2008 Std-Etc.
If you can get it all for free why steal it?
And no I don't have a MSDS or other paid subscription, that would be paying for it.
" geographies with high instances of software piracy suffer from high instances of malware."
Isn't this because the places you have to go in order to get free software aren't policed for malware? This really has nothing to do with the pirated software itself, but instead it has to do with the law preventing people from trading software for free in the first place. Software trading is outlawed == only outlaws will post software for trade (i.e. people already engaged in nefarious activities like malware).
stuff |
Ya, sure it is. And 41% ? Where did they conduct their sampling, china?
Lets just say for a moment that 41% is true. That number should tell you that something is wrong going on and software is far overpriced.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Hey, it works well for the *AA's in perverting public opinion and getting laws enacted so why should the BSA be any different?
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Remember that the B stands for Business.
That being said, am I, a simple user who occasionally needs to do graphics for my personal websites going to purchase photoshop?
No fucking way. Nor should I be required to do so. I have used photoshop since 1998 when it was version 4. I am a moderately skilled photoshop user. I am still learning a lot. There is more than half left to go.
If I want to get a job using my skills with photoshop, that business will have a licensed copy.
I say all software should be free for educational purposes. If you want to learn a new application, you should have to pay to do so. That's exclusionary. It's also already part of the DMCA. Copyright will not be infringed if using for instructional purposes. I am using it for instructional purposes.
They're using their grammar skills there.
I've installed exactly two non-freeware, non-FOSS programs in the last few years: purchased copies of Quickbooks and Portal. Now, it's very possible that I have expired trial versions of software lurking around that I never bothered uninstalling, and the BSA would almost certainly count that as piracy, but screw 'em. The fact is that I'd trust "Iceland Hacking Team #87" more than I trust most BSA members when it comes to giving clean, malware-free installations. When was the last time a Pirate Bay crack installed something worse that Starforce?
Honestly, many commercial apps are so laden with crap specifically designed to break parts of my computer that I just don't trust off-the-shelf software anymore. I think the BSA and their scummy members need to get their own houses in order before they start throwing accusations.
Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
Obligatory XKCD
Indeed, I wonder if some even explicitly choose copyright infringement sources simply to get spy and malware disabled versions of certain applications.
Well, wonder no more. I can explicitly confirm it.
Something along the lines of "41% of Music on personal MP3 players is pirated"
For now, this is a shameless piracy grab by the BSA. Other industry orgs will want to claim back their piracy shortly...
Take Spore for instance. I know many people who did not even want spore but pirated it on principle, just to make a statement about their "DRM". I also know of a few who bought a legal copy then downloaded a pirate copy just so they did not have to deal with all the malware thet EA published with it
First off, aside from the questionable validity of this study, I wonder really just how much these guys are "harming the economy"?
Personally, I've made an effort to avoid pirated software these days (I'll admit, I used some back when I was younger, but open source was less common back then and I had no money to spend anyways).
I mean, almost everything has a free replacement available these days.
Windows -> Linux
Outlook -> Thunderbird
Office -> OpenOffice.org (or actually Gnumeric and Abiword, which I actually kinda prefer myself)
Photoshop -> GIMP
Visual Studio -> GNU Compilers + lots of IDEs
Numerous Commercial CD Burning Programs -> Numerous Open Source CD Burning Programs
Don't get me wrong I know that for *professionals* GIMP often just ain't gonna compare to Photoshop. However, for personal computers at home, I think the vast majority of users are fine with the above. More to the point, I think that if the choice actually came down to paying retail price for the commercial versions or using free software (instead of their actual choice which was free pirated commercial software or free open source software), I doubt that very many at all would opt to shell out the cash.
And therein lies the problem - if these people would rather use free software instead of paying when called on this, then the net change in income for the makers of the software is nothing. That's not harming the economy. Indeed, it's likely helping the economy as if more people were forced to use open source and free software at home, then when they got to work and their boss asked them what programs they need budgeted into next years budget, they might just opt to keep using the open source ones, which would result in a DROP in revenue for the commercial companies. Methinks they don't want to push home users too hard here.
"People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
Actually, they can write BETTER tools for GIMP because GIMP was created specifically from the ground up to be tooled up like that.
PS "It doesn't do CMYK" is bollocks. Photoshop didn't do it once. Was it unsuitable then? Well people fucking bought it, didn't they?
Since there are no user comments for this website or article, I suggest we all contact the editors of said website & let them know all about the BSA's shady tactics & troll statistics.
mzorz(at)net-security(dot)com
zzorz(at)net-security(dot)com
There is a war going on for your mind.
Apparently it doesn't matter which BSA it is - tbey'll both try to bugger you.
This hasn't been true for decades.
The OTHER BSA, the one that goes camping has had a strong child-safety aspect since the late 1980s or early 1990s.
The BSA requires adult leaders and Scouts to go through a sexual-abuse-awareness training program, and they even make those programs available to outside groups. They also have a 2-adult rule at all events and prefer 3 or 4 adults. They do not allow adults to be alone with Scouts unless there is an emergency or they are "alone" with but within eyesight of another adult.
I would be far more worried about a similar group that didn't have a 2-adult policy than the Scouts.
Oh, and as for the Business Software Alliance buggering you or more accurately your wallet, no argument there.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
Although the correlation is not universal, geographies with high instances of software piracy suffer from high instances of malware.
These areas also suffer from high instances of computers...
Or Electronic Arts.
"Did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage?"
So why does the BSA now focus on individuals and filesharing?
Because a headline saying "Company X fined £50,000 for illegal software" does nothing. A headline with an individual getting bankrupted by fines might scare people into paying for software.
I am a free slashdotter. I will not be modded, blogged, DRM'd, patented, podcasted or RFID'd. My life is my own.
What about the other 35% of statistics?
Virginia is for lovers. EVE is for griefers.
I do, but they are not copyright infringement sources. If I already own a license, they are simply enhanced methods of distribution or a convinient malware-cleansing caching proxy.
More like 95%, at least on mine. HIGHFIVE!
the report also draws correlations between Internet piracy and the spread of malware such as viruses, trojans and spyware,
Why do they care if my PC has malware? Doesn't the malware act as a deterrent against pirating software?
It is my PC, and not a government/corporation PC, so don't try to protect me.
I am a student of life. So, all my student copies are still legit.
Nice try, but "life" isn't accredited by a reliable source.
Or, is the BSA just a bunch of extortionist thugs?
From wikipedia:
> According to an article in Mother Jones magazine,[4] the BSA discovered in 1995 that Antel, the Uruguayan national telephone company, had pirated US$100,000 worth of Microsoft, Novell, and Symantec software. The BSA's lawyers in Uruguay quickly filed suit, but dropped the suit in 1997 when Antel signed a "special agreement" with Microsoft to replace all of its software with Microsoft products. This has led to accusations that the BSA is a front for Microsoft, with its other members being enlisted purely to disguise Microsoft's dominant role.
They forgot to throw in a connection to terrorism.
Never shake hands with a man you meet in a fertility clinic.
I could possibly see them claiming 41% of computers have pirated software installed, but I just don't believe that 41% of all software installed is pirated. I may not have paid for mutliple licenses to software installed on my laptop and desktop machines, but I have at least one legal license for all but 2 of the 200+ apps in my applications folder, and those are apps I'm evaluating for later purchase.
Bureaucracy expands to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy.-Oscar Wilde
Even better was the Computing magazine (I think - or possibly one of their letters) response to that lost money on business software piracy: If so much is lost when 50% of the software is pirated, just think how much is being poured down the drain and could be saved if they all moved to FOSS!
Does this include open-source pirating?
While I am a programmer and try to buy all the software I use I find it difficult with some products to keep up with the upgrades.
BLOAT:
For example Word & Excel (Office) - to keep bashing M$ - is a bloat. There is not really a version which is minimal enough for my needs. I really-really do not need all the crap that ships with MS Office. I do not use their mail, I do not use anything other than Excel and Word. I would be happy with a minimal version, or a second hand version of Office 2003 (the one I use on my Mac). Still, document formats are forced on people and most people just HAVE TO get it, and then do not want to pay because they feel they are buying the same product over and over. Oh, did I mention SPACE? Yeah, to read a document I really need to have gigabites of crap installed on my systems? I know I can select packages, but they still install a crap load of libraries and all that what would not be needed by just e.g. Word and Excel.
PRICE:
I use almost only free software to develop. Jedit, vi, whatever, but form time to time I need something that costs money. Most of the time I am faced with a price tag of $50-100 for an app I would use once (e.g. to decode a stored procedure or to save in a special format, or to repair an installation)....
Version & function
Here is Zend studio for example: I simply hate the new version, I cannot make peace with that eclipse bloated horror. I love the old version and the functions in it are more than satisfactory for my PHP needs. But can I buy it? No. I cannot/do not want to use the new version and I cannot buy the old version, so my option is: pirate it - since it is against my standards I am trying to use something else, but this old yet unavailable version is something I go back to from time to time.
I think companies should have more options and combinations of their products, for the utility kind of things there should be a 10-day license too so people would more likely to buy the version they need instead of pirating it.
Use whatever value of 'n' you wish, but the truth is there is some software that will have a higher piracy rate. If a piece of software is affordable, and useful, then you will have plenty of people buying it. On the other hand if you have to pay $500+ (USD), then expect non-business users to be pirating the software. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if this is that what some of the publishers do, since anyone using the software at home will want to be using it as their job.
One piece of software that comes to mind is Photoshop, uh I mean Creative Studio, which includes Photoshop. When you consider that it is more expensive than the average home computer (or at least price compatible), then it is hardly surprising that there is Piracy. Some thing goes for Catia, which would require someone to mortgage their house just for a one year license.
Yes there is piracy, but we should first try to understand why certain software is pirated, and in what context.
Jumpstart the tartan drive.
Now that there are free alternatives likes OpenOffice, Gimp, Audacity, Blender, ... and that every personnal PC comes with Windows preinstalled and prelicenced, is it really 42% pirated or 42% "not bought from Microsoft and other" ?
So you justify your piracy and that makes it OK?
got to love people like you.
I suppose I can come up with a reason for anything, like how smokers justify their health care costs because smokes cost so much?
So you pirate music because of an arbitrary value limit you assign and that makes it alright?
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
... then institute impenetrable whips-and-chains bondage style copy protection. Immediately.
It can be done. I dare you guys. I dare Ballmer to crank up the WGA and OGA knobs to 11 as he promised.
End software piracy once and for all. DO IT!
I want to see what would happen if everyone suddenly switched to legitimate software overnight. No more will companies be able to use software piracy to distort the market and shut out competitors.
Let's see what Bill Gates thought of copyright infringement:
"Although about 3 million computers get sold every year in China, people don't pay for the software. Someday they will, though," Gates told an audience at the University of Washington. "And as long as they're going to steal it, we want them to steal ours. They'll get sort of addicted, and then we'll somehow figure out how to collect sometime in the next decade." - Bill Gates 1998
Yeah, wishful thinking on my part, eh?
--
BMO
Yes, pirated software is famous for being completely free from malware and torrent sites would never think about hosting ads that use exploits on visitors...
The only two apps on my computer that actually cost money are Windows XP and Office 2003. And both of them are volume license copies from a previous employer, meaning I'm technically not covered under the volume license anymore. So for me it's 100%.
And let's not forget that even though I might pirate a certain bit of software from company X (for any of the reasons you mentioned), that I am NOT using a similar competing software from company Y. Even piracy increases market share.
Of course, the BSA isn't going to mention that in their statistics.
Way back when, "pirating" a DOS disk was as simple as making a copy, and there was practically no risk.
Now, pirating windows would be much more difficult, much more risky, and much more pointless.
Practically all PCs sell with windows installed. This does not raise the price of a PC very much. So why risk the lawsuits from the BSA, why fight with all the DRM. Frankly, a "pirated" version of windows is not likely to work anyway.
Putting a new version of windows on an old PC does not usually make sense from a technological perspective. Windows just keeps getting more bloated, and resource intensive. This may not be true of win7 vs vista; but isn't that a free, or cheap, upgrade anyway?
Furthermore, re-selling software on ebay, even when it is legal, can be quite difficult. Try selling a legal, unopened, copy of Rosetta
Stone.
Also, doesn't comcast now choke the torrents?
Considering the substantial legal, and technical, difficulties involved in pirating software. It is hard for me to believe these claims of widespread pirating.
1. Which you can avoid 99% of the time by unticking boxes
2. and replace it with their own. Only you won't know it's installing until it's too late. Also, in the majority of pirated software, you're forced to install the copy protection stuff anyway, then add a crack that bypasses it for that piece of software.
3. malware and spyware in commercial software are the exception to the norm. Hence why it's big news when they turn up.
You paid for all that stuff - it was included in the price of your computer. And if you had said to a company like amazon.com "I won't be using Windows OS" you could have got a $50 refund.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
i am doing my best to bring up these rates. everything on all my computers is pirated, except for things like firefox and the here and there free source material. i copy and burn DVDs, burn music downloads, play games... all using pirated software or being pirated software. also no problems with virus or malware infections. i do know how to check for and prevent that. my comps run unhindered and nothing but my torrents use the bandwidth. last software that was purchased was a copy of XP for my first build. that was 6 years ago.soon after that, it was off to the races! of course, having said that, almost none of what i use would have been purchased even if i had the money. i don't know where that puts me in the BSA scale of things. i have never sold copies, just given away some. at least i am honest about what i do, not that what i do is honest!
I do that with most games that have bad drm or copy protection. Buy it if I like it, and run the cracked version instead.
"He's lost in a 'floyd hole"
I've used legal software that I consider malware (Vista' s search indexer for example).
Ironically from MS's point of view a pirated copy of windows running on a box is better than FOSS, they will never publicly acknowledge this for obvious reasons. But as far as MS is concerned if your using MS products, legal or not, that's better than using FOSS. Why? Because if your using MS's products you get used to MS's products and are more likely to buy them later, whereas if you are using FOSS you have removed yourself from the dependence cycle and won't make MS any money. As for this so-called study... it is almost libelous towards the regular user, many of whom have fallen to the scare tactics uses by the RIAA, MPAA, and BSA, the dinosaurs of our age. In the future the BSA might want to check with their financial backers before releasing such a study, pissing off your customer base doesn't sell anything.
Any and all content posted above may be ignored, considered irrelevant, or otherwise dismissed.
We who use opensource software, and by that I mean mostly Linux users, do not need to 'pirate' any software. We usually have better free equivalents readily at hand, an apt-get, yum, or rpm away. The FA looks more like an attempt at FUD by (Microsoft - to avoid lying) commercial interrests - it's just another bought blogger/journalist.
time time everywhere and not a second to spare
Their Calculation goes like this:
as you can see, they just have to raise their estimates of "how much software a PC needs" a little bit to skyrocket the piracy... also they don't consider people using free software or older versions of software, so all in all their piracy report means nothing more than "we would have wanted to sell THIS much more software!"
The MAFIAA is a bunch of mindless jerks who will be the first up against the wall when the revolution comes
The fix is relatively simple. Make all copyright software (and media) 100% findable and purchasable in a simple way across ALL geographies, and you can get more revenue. Say NO to physical media, it doesn't help prevent piracy.
to have all legal software? The OS, comes with the computer most of the time and often its illegally installed, without the knowledge of the consumer. Office, if its pre-installed, is often illegal without the knowledge of the consumer. Both are installed illegally by the vendor, because, if Office and Windows were put on legally, the computer would cost double. Then, sometimes a low grade burner app comes with a CD or DVD drive, but for a good current version of Nero, you have to shell out around 70€ and pay that again and again with new versions (although there are somewhat cheaper upgrade versions for many apps). If you do a lot of photo or graphics editing, a decent app for that sets you back a 100€ easily. Which again is recuring for eacy new version that comes out. If you do some video editing because you have a digital camera or want to do quality DVD rips to watch on your PC, rather then overusing and wearing out the DVD disks, you can often shell out 100€ for a version of Pinacle. If you want to chat on multiple networks, AIM, MSN, YIM, ICQ, ..., a client like Trillian Pro is very interesting, both because of support, skin ability and full featurednes, it'll set you back 30€ for every major version and 10€ for an upgrade each time a new major version comes out.
A virus scanner costs you anywhere between 40 and 80€ for a 1 year subscription on the AV software and that doesn't always include the initial buying price.
And thats just the tip of the iceberg of apps people generally use. It'll come down to well over 400€ a year just for keeping your basic software up to date.
Then we haven't even looked at payed video downloads, iTunes or other payed music downloads, buying games (which at best have a 40 hour play value), playing pay2play MMORPG's like WoW, where you have to shell out 70-80€ to get Classic, Burning and Lich King, and then have to start shelling out 15€ a month to be allowed to play those expensive expansions which come around about 1ce a year and cost you between 20 and 40€ just to be able to play the new content, while still paying the monthly subscription.
I also have Autocad, ETS3, several professional apps I need for specific business related things, FTK, Acrobat Pro, 3DSMax, FL Studio, 2 Windows 2008 servers, 1 MSSQL server and a dozen other apps I use at least 1ce a week which set me back several 1000€.
How is anyone expected to pay all that for both entertainment and in my case work related tasks?
How is anyone expected to pay all that when old entertainment, television and radio, were so ridiculously cheap?
How is anyone expected to pay that when your already paying atleast 500€ a year for an internet connection?
Also, most software developers give out cheap Light or free Trial versions, but lock down that 1 feature that you actually need, and to get that feature, you have to pay for the whole thing.
Most people will then opt to search for the software for free, and leave the app installed, even though they only used and needed it once.
Its not only consumers that are at fault here, software is to expensive and IMHO, the Apple appstore has shown that bringing all that software together, creating true competition, drives the prices down considerably.
We need that for all software.
Now there simply are to many apps that people DO need to have installed, which cost them 50$ per app, per year, just to use their PC, which itself already cost anywhere between 300 and 30000$
Quit bitching and vilifying your consumers when you yourself are the greedy cause of the underlying problem.
I don't doubt it, but on the other hand, Adobe, Microsoft, et. al really ought to lower their prices. Ever since Microsoft knocked Wordperfect/Corel Office and Lotus Smartsuite pretty much out of the market the price for Office Pro has quadrupled. Ever since Corel Draw became irrelevant and the graphics companies consolidated (Adobe buying up Aldus, Corel buying up Jasc, etc.) the Adobe apps have skyrocketed in price.
They got where they are through piracy: if fark-reading college students didn't pick up photoshop off of "warez" sites and learn their suites, Adobe might not have been able to maintain such dominance in the industry. If every Tom, Dick, and Harry didn't "pirate" Microsoft Office, maybe the monopoly wouldn't exist. Maybe Microsoft just might be more interested in interoperability because it would benefit them. They got where they are through piracy, and then implemented strict "activation" schemes now. The thing is, activation schemes only penalize paying customers. People who run 'cracked' software don't have to deal with false positives. They don't have to call Microsoft and wait on hold for 20 minutes for manual craptivation after they've done their second semi-annual Windows reinstall or did their video card upgrade. "Pirates" just install their cracked and slipstreamed Windows and Adobe Creative Suite install and they're done. Activation and Genuine Advantage don't affect them in the slightest.
It's pathetic when the "counterfeit" software is superior to the legitimate.
What is the solution? When it comes to operating systems, there is Linux, BSD, OpenSolaris, and other options - or even Mac OS X if you're adventurous enough to explore the hackintosh option (or just pick up a Mini). When it comes to office suites, download openoffice.org. With rare exception, the OpenOffice.org Suite will do everything you need it to do, and if you're an advanced user, you'll find that many features (such as integration with databases) is actually easier and superior in OpenOffice. Sure, the macro language is lacking in documentation, but if you're a coder, you'll be too busy appreciating knowing that your macro will actually work on a Mac to think about missing VBA.
When it comes to graphic suites, unless you need things like layer effects, droplets, and other advanced features, gimp, inkscape, and xara extreme are very likely good enough for you. If you know what layer effects are, then no, gimp won't replace Photoshop, but your living probably does rely on Adobe product to some extent so go out and buy it; yes, it runs on Crossover Office (or even wine with some finagling).
I run Linux about 95% of the time. F/OSS does it for me. Here is what I still need Windows for:
* running my embroidery machine
* Netflix (damn you, netflix! Bring the flash player back!)
* syncing my iPhone (let's get with it, Amarok!)
* several games that run on neither Crossover nor Cedega - and yes, a couple of them are Microsoft games
Now, I had a really good Hackintosh install running for a while - but I had to wipe it to free up a drive for a job. When I go back to the Hackintosh I plan to install Snow Leopard. I would love to run OS X 100% of the time (Yes, it's legal. I do own a Mac but like PC hardware better; I use workstation motherboards and faster CPUs and video cards) but I find the KDE environment so productive with kioslaves in konqueror, it's hard to give it up and switch to the Finder. Most F/OSS software I run on Linux is also available on OS X. Worst case, it runs under fink.
Seriously though: let's give companies what they want. They got where they are through "piracy" because tom, dick, and harry learned the apps at home and brought that knowledge to the office where it influenced purchase decisions. Download F/OSS instead, learn it, and bring that knowledge to the office. You'll see Adobe, Microsoft, etc. either lowering their prices or even "licensing" software free for personal use, much like the antivirus companies did.
The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
noncommercial use of patents is free.
[citation needed]
But nobody cares. In Russia there is far more than 41% pirated software, and some software companies do not care on piracy at all. What about correlation between subj and "the spread of malware" due to pirated software is not updated? Crackers are not stupid people, they make the software cracked and updateable.
Like a dervish.
"Do the Right Thing. It will gratify some people and astound the rest." - Mark Twain
So they are counting "Used Software" as Pirated Software? Most software sold by auctions were used once and then sold via an auction to the lowest bidder. If one sold a book via an auction, it would not be considered pirated, but selling software via an auction is considered pirated? Some software sold via auction is still new and never used, is that pirated software as well? If so how is that different from a friend of mine buying the software new and then giving the copy to me to use as he bought two copies one for him and one for me to use. Is it pirated software then?
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
Me too, i specifically go for pirate copies of various things because they are typically free of phone home programs, onerous install requirements (eg license codes) and onerous runtime requirements (like putting the cd in the drive - who wants to carry around a stack of low capacity media like cds?)... The pirate copies are better, the fact that they're cheaper is secondary.
http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
No, it's true. Once I pirated a Sony music CD and got a really awful rootkit. No way a company would intentionally put that on the CD, so it must have been added by evil pirates.
Do you mean that the BSA thinks that if one does not pay for their software it is automatically pirated? Which means FOSS is pirated software because the user didn't pay for it? Linux is pirated, Firefox is pirated, Thunderbird is pirated, Google Chrome is pirated, The GIMP is pirated, Paint.Net is pirated, etc?
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
Maybe this is a reflection on last-century business models? "Piracy" doesn't occur in the Open Source world - I don't hear Red Hat bitching about piracy, and their stock is doing just fine thank you. They see each distributed copy as increased market share. Maybe it's time for commercial software companies, music industry et al to look closely at their practices and not rely on the "blame pirates" mantra to work forever? (That is unless TFA really was about a ship load of CDs nabbed by Somalian fishermen, in which case they would have reason to bitch...)
Yep, these stats all depend on your definition of "pirated." I'm running a Fedora 11 install on my laptop, with zero "pirated" applications, unless you define "pirated" to mean "software I didn't pay for," in which case 100% of everything running on my machine is "pirated."
The difference is where software is distributed by sneakernet or via the Intarweb. There's a lot of high-quality piracy going on out there, but it's mostly on the web. If you buy any pirate software, you are almost certainly getting some nasty bugs riding along with it. The only place I know of that people actually buy pirate software is in Asia, though, and usually that's in places where annual family income is in the hundreds of dollars per year, if that.
My blog. Good stuff (when I remember to update it). Read it.
Four computers at home.
OS - Came with puter that I got second hand, MS really likes me and sent me a free copy, RC of Win7
Office - MS really likes me and gave free copy, part of license from work (the guy that deals with MS told me that our license actually covers people taking it home, who am I to argue?) and OO.o
AV - Avast free or AVG free
Games - Paid for, Armor Games or Gamespot
Utilities - Sysinternals, downloads.com etc. all free
Graphics - paint.net, picassa, paid for Macromedia Creative Pack once.
Programming IDE - MS really likes me and sent me a free copy.
The only thing I have had to pay for were games and one of the graphics packages. I use the Macromedia suite for work so it really doesn't count.
I am not going to count MP3's since most were ripped from CD's I own. The licenses for Office and Windows might be a little iffy but I don't feel bad since I provide free support to family and friends. I do try to actually have at least one real license for Office and Windows, but since I fill out survey's, beta test, and watch propoganda vids that is usually not a problem.
Is he strong? Listen bud, He's got radioactive blood.
noncommercial use of patents is free.
[citation needed]
It varies by jurisdiction; I believe that in Germany it's considered impossible for an end-user to violate a patent. It's necessary also to distinguish between practice and what the law says, since it's possible for a user's actions to be against the law and for prosecuting authorities to say that they won't take action for reasons of public policy.
"Little does he know, but there is no 'I' in 'Idiot'!"
I've seen dozens of people with Winzip on their computers who haven't actually bought it but they heard they needed it to open ZIP files.
Why? Since Windows ME and Windows XP, Windows has come with Compressed Folders, which can read and write PKZIP archives. Were you thinking of WinRAR?
the crime of jumping the gun and concluding correlation is causation is bad
the crime of blindly rejecting causation when you see correlation is equally bad
" going through the motions of critical thinking without really understanding it, is a lot better than not doing it at all"
huh? you just contradicted yourself in those words
it's like pavlov's dogs around here (speaking of correlation and causation): people describe a correlation in a story, and immediately begins the steady rain of chanting "correlation is not causation", "correlation is not causation" nitwit comments
its not critical thinking in the least. its a mindless blind meme. its a replacement for critical thinking just as malacious and erroneous as thinking correlation is causation
its like the dense brownie point seeking ass licker in class who sees the smart kid say something in class one day that the teacher rewards, so he decides to raise his hand constantly all the time and ape what the other kid said (only once) at every available opportunity
saying "correlation is not causation" at this point is not a sign of intelligence or critical thinking. it is, in fact, an ironclad sign at this point of lack of intelligence and uncritical thinking. its like a salivating dog at the sound of a bell. its completely mindless
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
"Software never was a product. And it never will be. It's a service. A service done once. And that work is what you pay for. Not the result. Because that would be the sick twisted view that Gates introduced back then. (Yep, you can thank him for that too.)"
no, you are paying for the result, because the result is what you actually use.
"Think if it like we all throwing money in a pot, to pay for a big software project. Then if there is no more work to do, and we don't think that what was done is worth more than what we already payed, we stop paying."
I feel the same way about GNU software. It's my right to use it any way I see fit (including selling it an not giving back to the community). I'm glad we are on the same page.
As always, it is unclear just what they consider "pirated". For example, if your company purchases 100% legitimate software via eBay, the BSA will not accept this as your software during an audit. They refuse to accept any and all eBay receipts. Hence, it is quite likely that they have counted all purchases via auction sites as pirated, even though this is clearly not true.
This is only one of many "rules" they apply that make little or no sense. Did you know that possessing the complete packaging of a program, including the original CD/DVD and the enclosed license certificate is, according to the BSA, not proof of ownership? You must have an original receipt, with the company (or individual) name correctly spelled, which explicitly lists the product and version.
The BSA may once have been a way to combat piracy'it has evolved into a monstrosity. Microsoft, Adobe and the other companies should terminate their relationships with it and start over.
Enjoy life! This is not a dress rehearsal.
They go farther. If you buy a used computer with Windows already installed and don't pay anything to Microsoft they classify you as a pirate even though that is entirely legal under US copyright law.
Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
Stealing is actually great for the economy... think about it.
I understand your point, but let's move aside from the bullshitters (RIAA, MPAA etc.) rhetorics and ask the real question: is copying good for the economy? But let's elaborate and ask an even more important question, is copying good for humanity?
I am the lawn!
You paid for all that stuff - it was included in the price of your computer.
Hmmmm......
Added up the "cost" of the software above....(Might want to look closer at what software was)
Was more then 20X the cost of the current rig...
Still more than the cost of my rigs since 2005...
Wow, that presentation is superb.
There's all kinds of good stuff in that one. It's especially interesting when you see that M$ started its jihad (yes, the movement leadership's own words) back in the 1990's. It sure looks like a political / ideological / religious movement that uses illegal means to push its agenda and at the cost of billions of dollars of damage. Isn't DHS suppose to be protecting us from people like that?
We've all seen these saboteurs in action.
Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
So it is hurting the industry, but not as much as the industry claims.
No, or at least not necessarily. This 1 lost album per 2500 (or 5000) downloads must be offset against another widely documented statistic, namely the number of sales filesharing actually results in that wouldn't have happened otherwise. It has been widely documented, in numerous studies, that fileshares buy considerably more music than the rest of us (who don't give a shit about the current trendy **AA artists or the--mostly tripe and agonizing to listen to--music they promote).
If you've got 10 sales being generated by the same filesharing habits that are costing the industry 1 sale, that's a net result of +9 sales for the industry, in which case filesharing is not only not hurting the industry, it's the only thing keeping it on life support.
Which is saying a lot, as it has been years since the recording industry has produced anything worth buying.
As an aside, all of my music is legal, owned on CD and ripped for my personal use on my mp3/ogg player. I don't share, upload, or download music. I listen to the radio, online streaming stations, and my CD collection (via one level of indirection, as ogg/vorbis files on my digital playback media). That said, I haven't bought a CD in at least 5 years, because, quite frankly, I haven't heard anything remotely worth paying for. This is not the fault of filesharers or non-sharing fans like myself. It is the fault of a moribund industry that has taken "safe" (read: vapid, lame, and uninteresting) music over innovative music and crammed it down our unwilling throats for at least two decades, arguably longer. They've grown used to stripping the authenticity and soul from our culture and selling us the remaining dregs at a 1000% markup, and we've grown tired of consuming it. Thus we've stopped buying their crap, and they are dying.
Or at leat most of us have. Apparantly a few fileshares remain enthusiastic about this tripe and buy some of their music, keeping the dinasaurs alive for perhaps another generation. This won't change no matter what they do to digital media, the internet, or so-called pirates. It will only change when the industry reforms itself, or, even better, dies. Already decent indie artists are coming to the fore through alternative channels (internet radio, online sharing, etc.) ... the sooner the old school industry dies, X-Factor and American Idol are replaced with some decent sci-fi (OK, I'm dreaming, I know...), the better off we'll all be.
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
FreeBSD.org - The power to serve
Or it might make a sizable segment of the user base irate enough to organize legal resistance, obtain and use alternative software where possible, and generally make the BSA's existence hell. See: RIAA.
I know that these suited thugs don't really understand good PR, but bankrupting an individual over a pirated copy of Windows or two is like clubbing baby seals on TV. I doesn't matter if you are entitled to or not. It still looks bad and pisses off people who didn't care before.
I prefer rogues to imbeciles because they sometimes take a rest.
Don't underestimate this ant! I can hurt you a lot. >:)
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
Shut up and pass the rum.
Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
I did my own survey of desktops at work., and I found that 87% of the software installed was procured from a convicted monopolist at price that reflects a clear lack of competition in the marketplace. Is it any wonder that non-business customers are happier to buy a copy from a slightly dodgy man in the street, or to copy from a friend, rather than pay an origanised criminal 'software mafia' for it?
What would you expect the MS official line to say? They need people to be suckered into paying for 3rd rate software, not getting it free of charge, so they use the same old lines about it containing malware, supporting terrorism etc. Like any upstanding corporate crooks, they will pull figures from thin air to support their agenda and exagerate whenever possible. Their role is to pressure governments into giving their backers even more legally backed powers to shaft consumers and will use whatever sob stories (fact or fiction) to get that. When you see a story from BSA you may as well read that as a story direct from MS themselves.
I am wondering if the BSA's 41% is made up of software like OpenOffice.org, or VLS, or SAMBA, that they would claim contain there client's precious "IP".
You just never know with the BSA or **AA.
* Carthago Delenda Est *
I have 7 systems. 3 are linux, 3 are macs and 1 is an old w2k box I turn on occasionally. There is no pirated software on any of them. This is pretty clearly the BSA (a M$ flunky) positioning itself to be given even more power by the government.
Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of congress. But then I repeat myself. -- Mark Twain
The right conferred by the patent grant is, in the language of the statute and of the grant itself, “the right to exclude others from making, using, offering for sale, or selling” the invention in the United States or “importing” the invention into the United States. What is granted is not the right to make, use, offer for sale, sell or import, but the right to exclude others from making, using, offering for sale, selling or importing the invention. Once a patent is issued, the patentee must enforce the patent without aid of the USPTO.
So, yes, the patent owner *can* exclude you from making his invention, but it's up to the inventor to excude you and the USPTO isn't going to help him.
Most large companies will just ignore the patents of a small inventor and wait to be sued. Most people can use the same technique. Unless you are selling the invention, it's unlikely the inventor will ever find you.
All ideas^H^H^H^H^Hprocesses in this post are Patent Pending. (as well as the process of patenting all postings)
...I'm using Linux, OpenOffice, gimp, Inkscape...
...and my favorite game is OpenTTD (and yes I've got an original, legal copy of TTD).
The BSA are a lobby group for Microsoft. They act in the interests of Microsoft. A major cash cow for Microsoft's Windows is that you really have to try hard to find any new PC without Windows already pre-installed. Microsoft know that average people don't know how to change that, and that they often sticj with what is pre-installed until it screws up badly enough that they go buy a new PC with the same flaws. They try to ensure that the customer never thinks there is any choice, that all PC's need Windows, when many other alternatives exist. They exploit people's ignorance.
A key part of laws allowing this is the BSA / MS line that "if PCs are sold without Windows already on it, people would install stolen copies of Windows on it". This assumes they are the peoples choice, rather than the default that people can't avoid. The idea is flawed.
People who are so desperate to use a version of Windows without paying for it, and have the skills to install an operating system (it's not hard but it does involve a little more technical knowledge than the average user possesses) will do so regardless of what OS comes pre-installed when they buy their PC. If all they could buy was Ubuntu and they couldn't live without their Photoshop etc they would wipe Ubuntu and put Windows on. If all they could buy was Vista and they wanted a more stable Windows they'd wipe it and install XP.
Microsoft use these lobbying proxies to build pressure, compile favorable studies etc all pushing lawmakers to enshrine their practices, and protect against actually having to compete for customers. Using the emotional linkage to stuff most of us accept is wrong like terrorism, drug smuggling, arms smuggling, people smuggling, counterfeit gangs, prostitution etc they seek to blind us with emotional reactions rather than see the real picture going on.
The whole proprietary model with hype making products the accepted product leader leads directly to illegal copies of software being sought after and installed by people who either can't afford the official prices, or refuse to see them as value for money for what they're getting. When companies "sell" software that's actually not a sale, it's a license to run a copy of that software under strict instructions, it's a deception right from the start. Microsoft have never "sold" a single piece of software in their entire history, yet they still claim to be the best selling OS and Office suite. Again this is exploiting people's ignorance.
Remember the BSA's audience is lawmakers and Microsoft's corporate partners, not end users.
It's pretty obvious why such a high percentage of apps are pirated. First and foremost, there's the price. The price is set for businesses, not people. Photoshop runs $700. Dreamweaver costs $400. You could get a used car for that much. That's a mortgage payment or a new appliance like a refrigerator or a new stove. Do they really think people are going to want to shell out that kind of money for a non-physical item that lets them be creative with imagery and web sites? The proper price should be more in the range of $50-$75, and that should buy access for an entire household.
Which brings me to the next point - if you buy software, it should be usable by the entire household. The license should let you install it on every computer in the house and be used by all the kids. What if your refrigerator had a license attached to it that said only one person in a household could use it?
And finally add to that the fact that your software effective expires unless you pay $200-$300 a year to keep it updated. I'd be fine with the copy of Photoshop I bought 6 years ago, except that it no longer runs. Since then Apple has updated its operating system and its processor. Unless I stay with the same computer and OS I have 6 years ago, the software is effectively gone.
So how many people are willing to pay an extremely high price for a piece of software that you can't share with your family, has a high annual upgrade fee, becomes unusable in a year or two without paying, and has almost no resale value?
They say people have 41% software as "pirated" and people are getting it from "auction sites."
How much you wanna bet they are counting used software as "pirated?"
Somebody previously owned that legitimate copy of Windows 2000 that you bought on ebay? Pirate!
I have to crack most of my legally bought games just so that I can play them in Wine xD But I found out that most pirated games are more or less rips and do not work in Wine so I went out to buy games so that I could play it when they supported the legal version of the game and the cracked versions at the same time :')
Here be signatures
What is with search indexers anyway. I swear i have scanned folders i knew had particular files and xp search did not find it, while i went in a opened the file myself seconds latter. the indexing takes hours and hours and searching is also very slow. Personally i use a free substitute "agent ransack" It does not index, is multiple times faster then xp search, and always finds stuff you are looking for.
Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
I'm fairly sure than none of my software on my PC is illegitimate either. I do, however, have a lot of software that is installed from a download,for two reasons:
a) The download tends to have less crap attached
b) It doesn't require CD/DVD-swapping, so I can leave the original in a safe place after I get the CD-key from my box
c) Sometimes I order a game/etc, and - being in a slightly remote location - it can take quite awhile to arrive, so I download while waiting for the box to arrive
As I have already bought and paid for a fully legit copy of the software, I have no problem doing this, and the BSA can go shove it up their backside after counting my boxes of original discs/licenses/etc
For normal users, usually the most commonly copied software I saw was office, mainly because MS creamed the competition so there wasn't a decently compatible alternative. Nowadays I have seen OO replacing the pirated copies, and recommend it when I still run across others.
Oh ffs! RIAA, MPAA, BPI, PRS, AFACT, IFPI and now BSA.
Just how many more people are going to jump on this bandwagon of 'teh evil interwebz are killing my business'?
Software piracy is NOT a new thing, nor has P2P particularly changed things - how many people do you know who bought a WinPC from some small backstreet shop with Win95/98/2K/XP pre-installed along with a copy of Office. And they didn't have to pay for the software, they just assumed a PC always came with that stuff on it!? And that's just people using pirated software without even knowing it's pirated. Most small businesses can't possibly afford a multi-user license for half of the software they use, and I know most will buy a copy to be 'legit' and then install it on multiple machines for starters.
One thing missing from the article is the percentage of personal computers with pirated software. Saying that 41% of software on personal computers is pirated is rather meaningless without knowing the percentage of personal computers using pirated software. If you are willing to use pirated software, odds are you will not likely stop at just one program. Why not have lots? It doesn't cost more to pirate a dozen programs than to pirate one.
It's entirely possible that one or two percent of computer owners account for a very large percentage of pirated software.
Between myself, my family, and my friends, I can think of only one person who might wittingly have pirated software on his computer. Either I belong to a very atypical group, or the number of people with pirated software constitutes a relatively small percentage of computer owners.
I'd also be interested in knowing how they arrived at their conclusion of 41%. I don't know too many people who would allow the BSA to look at their computers especially if they knew that they had pirated software on their computer (I do know many people, myself included, who would happily suggest other things for the BSA to look at).
linquendum tondere
So go hunt in China and other parts of eastern Asia then! Do not hunt in the western world!
As much as I hate to say this, (and not having read TFA) they might be very close with their numbers if (and this is a big if) they're looking at worldwide usage, and not just first world utilization.
Having lived in South America, Africa and Asia (currently residing in the US) I can say that without a doubt that the majority of software (probably around 90% in my opinion) in most of those regions is pirated. I've had to fight, tooth and nail to get my employers to even consider licensing software when needed, that is, when a free alternative wouldn't work.
The main reason for this is simply cost... Take the Philippines for example (because I've lived there more recently)-for a person with a "average" job, above the poverty line (which many people aren't) they'll take home about $300US a month. A legal copy of Windows Vista Home Basic costs $100US ( http://www.villman.com/Category/Software - that's a well known computer store there). A "pirated" version costs at the most $2US, whatever version you want. If you compare that to the person who makes $12US an hour, and takes home $20kUS a year that would be the equivalent of paying around $500US for your copy of Windows. Never mind buying MS Office, or Photoshop. Even if you disregard home use, of all the businesses, schools, internet cafe's, etc. that I've seen I'd still say that over 90% used pirated software-they would likely go under otherwise, as the cost is exorbitant for their market. The only other option besides "piracy" is free software, but that's an entirely separate struggle.
That's from the Social Security website, and the data is for 2007, so just a couple of months before the economy went into the shitter. Yes, you're in pretty rarified territory if you're making 80/hr (or 120/hr). I happen to bill between 115-130/hr, but I take home $33/hr before taxes. The rest is administrative, overhead, and everyone else who seems to get a little bit of my money before it finally gets to me. Now, that $33/hr doesn't include the profit I take out (which may be as high as my salary in very good years) - but that's also partly the result of many years building my client base, time that I didn't get any profit, and some years when I took nearly zero salary, too.
I agree that the average person, when looking at two weeks (or more) of their total wages to purchase Photoshop/CS4 is going to be highly motivated to procure a cheaper copy. The fact that it's sold at that rate "for people who use it for a living" and they're only going to use it for "personal use" bolsters the moral case they make to themselves. Yes, Elements exists...but why should an individual have less features when messing with little Johnny's soccer pics? Might as well download the whole thing and not have to worry about not having that one thing that only the full CS4 has that you "need."
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
I wonder what their sample demographic was.
I honestly don't remember the last time I pirated any software. I suppose running Linux since 2001 helps. I can't exactly say I've been FOSS-only since I still use Adobe Flash and the proprietary nVidia graphics drivers, but in general if I can't apt-get, yum, untar or most importantly /share/ it, I won't take it.
Some software such as libdvdcss has dodgy legal status thanks to arcane laws, but that's definitely not pirated software by any definition.
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
Getting the Windows tax taken off the price of a machine is often an exercise in futility. I tried to buy a Dell laptop without an OS two years ago. The sales person (a man named Michael or somesuch with a horrendously thick Indian accent) simply couldn't understand why on earth I'd want a laptop without an operating system. Eventually he just started repeating "sorry, we can't sell you a laptop without an operating system."
I had wasted enough time already, so I finally asked for the cheapest version (XP Home) and wiped it out myself. I suppose I could have gone to MS about it, but they'd probably waste more of my time than it would be worth.
But no, your parent post certainly didn't pay for Office 2007 Pro, VS 2005 and 2008 Standard, MSSQL 2005 and 2008 Standard, and so on, simply by buying a computer, unless he specifically selected those for inclusion with the purchase (and I don't know any retailers that offer VS bundled with a machine like that).
I think he mistakenly forgot to enclose the first sentence of his post in a quote tag.... read that way, it makes a lot more sense.
Years ago I purchased a retail box XP Pro from the MS company store. Over the course of moves I lost the original key, so I downloaded the corporate/cracked ISO. Now I don't have to re-activate every time I feel like trying the latest Ubuntu (which I've subsequently switched over to, incidentally).
Similarly I "pirate" the computer games I've purchased, since they come with DRM-free executables. I know I purchased them and did not resell them, so I have no problem "illegally downloading" myself a replacement copy if I lose or damage my install media.
I can't be bothered to look at the moment but there have been reports of companies being accused because they couldn't produce an invoice for Openoffice. Messing with statistics is even easier to beleive.
(Specious, applicable only in the USA)
That's what I said: "In the BSA's home territory". Slashdot is also operated from the United States.
Download it from a non-US server.
It's still illegal to use unless I move out of the USA, and that's cost prohibitive.
Gah, I wonder if Sun would give anyone who downloads OpenOffice.Org a PDF of an invoice they can print out that says sales price is $0 or something. Just to get the accountants and BSA off of their backs.
Maybe this is why corporations won't use FOSS software, they have no purchase invoice to show accounting or pass a BSA pirate software check.
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
Actually I didn't forget the quotes as the software is neither pirated or paid for (Unless you count a few hours time for each title), but maybe I should have worded the first line different.
Launch events is where you get the MS stuff for free.
Ah, well that makes sense too :)
I'm starting to wish I had signed up to host a Win7 launch party... I'm using Win7 RC1, which I chose specifically so I didn't have to pay for Windows while still being able to play games, but I'm still not sure what I'm going to do when they disable the RC. Maybe I'll see if this guy I know (who happens to be an MS employee) can get me a cheap copy... ... or maybe I'll get my games to work under Wine. We'll see how much patience I have.
I used to run the skunk works for an office, testing software that the boss was too cheap to buy. Sometimes a decent demo wasn't available, or waiting for a sales droid to get back to me, so this meant some warez, and a few password crackers. I told my supervisor once if the softeware police show up he should toss an incendiary in my office and pull the door shut, the fire would be cheaper.
They can have my command prompt when they pry it from my cold dead fingers.
So what if the number is 1%,41%,99%, just what does BSA intend this data to do?
... what OS has the lowest rate of piracy?
now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
1. Is simply not true. Adware and spyware are common in commercial software.
3. If you *have* paid for it, it could be infected. That's why you scan everything.
That would explain why the documentation for most commercial programs say to turn off antivirus software before installing...
Any insufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.
unless there counting stuff like mp3s movies etc theirs no way the number can be that high. apps wise everything has gone free in some form. if your willing to look i guess. i dont have pirate softwhere on my machine anymore i dont need to any app i need has a free version. in some cases the free ones work better and use less system power to work the the paid version nero burning rom vs imgburn for example. or avast antivires vs anything paid. they have to be looking at games etc and not apps.
...harming the economy? Come ON, that is the ONLY reason the BSA are bleating out this crap, it's hurting THEM!
I run "pirated" software, by which I mean anonymously downloaded Linux software, which is not registered* nor did I pay for it beyond the cost of the bandwidth and the Datawrite DVD I used to burn it.
*By the way, you lot should keep in mind that by registering *anything* you are signing over the title to that thing - your car: you register it, you get back a V5 registration document that entitles you to drive that vehicle. You register a baby, you sign over the rights of that legal personality to the local authority and ultimately to a subcontractor of the Government known as the Central Registry. You get to look after that baby until such time as CPS deems that you are not doing it according to their unwritten prescription of bringing up a good zombie - er, I mean, citizen. Then they take it and you have NO RECOURSE IN CIVIL LAW BECAUSE YOU SIGNED A BIRTH CERTIFICATE, also known as a CONTRACT. You don't get to see the terms of that CONTRACT because they do not WANT you to; if you DID, you wouldn't, being of sound mind, sign it! You register a piece of software, you NO LONGER OWN IT OR ANY HARDWARE IT IS INSTALLED ON OR ANY DATA YOU CREATE WITH IT. READ THE EULA, PEOPLE! IT IS WHAT IT IS THERE FOR!
Operation Guillotine is in effect.
your using something that cost time and effort, to create a work, that you are enjoying. don't dilute yourself by thinking that just because you aren't profiting from a given work, that you are not stealing and cheapening the hard work of someone else. don't get me wrong, i hate the RIAA and all else who act like them. but we shouldn't stoop to their levels and steal, steal-alike.
This article is BS.
No it's BSA. *whack* *ow* redundantbat, not again
... I am sure they could pay for the development of an application that could cover their needs.
It is simply that company bosses are unimaginative and care only about their bonuses, not about technological progress or what is best for their firm.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Pretty much. It's quite common for developing nations to be heavily dependent on a single industry - the classic example is the 'banana republic'. Naturally such nations impose all kinds of laws protecting this industry. As they develop and join the developed nations, they tend to approach more closely to the free market and open up their industries to competition.
In America's case, the vital industry being protected is that of music, movies, microcode and high-speed pizza delivery. Software patents are America's attempt to protect a small number of local corporations from competition.
Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
All I know is I hardly ever buy music anymore. I don't have to. I don't even have to resort to risky P2P schemes to get it. It's all available for free on YouTube, and there are plenty of web sites out there that will rip YouTube audio to an MP3 file for you. Oh the quality may not always be great, but it's good enough for me.
A work that expires before its copyright never enters the public domain and thus enjoys eternal copyright protection.
I WAS one of those RAGING pirates in my teens and early twenties. I had 100's of thousands of dollars of pirated software stored and used on my computer. Interesting thing happened, as I played and learned much of that software, once I started working professionally, I got my company to purchase much of the stuff I was pirating at home while learning and playing with it - from upgrading their outdated office suite to purchasing Adobe Master Collection and so forth. So the way I see it, my illegal downloads were actually GAINED sales by the software industry If it wasn't for me pushing the company to get software I needed to do the job they hired me for, which I would have never gotten in a first place if I didn't spend years pirating and learning the aforementioned software they would have never spent thousands of dollars (and continue doing so) on new software now.