Slashdot Mirror
Student Banned From Minnesota Campus Over Facebook Comments
Be careful just how you vent online is the lesson from this story pointed out by reader kungfugleek, from which he excerpts: "A University of Minnesota student has been banned from the Twin Cities campus after three of her instructors felt threatened by some of her Facebook postings. Amanda Tatro was patted down and questioned by campus police when she got to class Monday. The 29-year-old mortuary science student had posted comments on her Facebook page after breaking up with her boyfriend. She told her Facebook friends she wanted to stab a 'certain someone in the throat' with an embalming instrument. Tatro said she was 'looking forward to Monday's embalming therapy.' When the instructors learned of the postings, they contacted police." The Star-Tribune's account offers more detail.
What the fuck is it that you american's live in such state of paranoia?
Yes, I understand that you guys have had some gruesome stuff happen at schools and all, but some dark and frustrated writing on a wall is no threat at all. Man, if Nietzche or Sartre studied in today's america, or even burroughs or kerouac, they'd be behind bars by now.
NO SIG
I always make sure I am an anonymous coward (or at least have my facebook status to private) before I make my homicidal feelings known.
By the way, I am gonna get all you suckers!!!!
I think the question is if written comments like that should be construed as threats, or more like a journal where you'd just write for yourself. I'm also wondering if there's any other evidence that anyone on campus was targetted. The ban should have been lifted after the full story was found out.
There's no place like localhost
Morticians have a morbid sense of humor? SAY IT AIN'T SO! *face palm*
#fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
Threats are threats.
Yup, sounds about right.
Next topic, please!
Kriston
This whole thing makes me want to beat someone in the face with a keyboard. I'm looking forward to Tomorrow's "development therapy".
No, I actually mean I'm going to qwerty some bitches foreheads here. Sorry for any confusion.
Sounds like that degree is DOA at least for her.
Its a dead field.
/Sorry, had to be done.
It doesn't matter what your account settings are, treat everything you post to facebook as public. It's worse than email, and you want to be careful of what you send in those as well.
Loose lips lose spit.
A society that expects a group of people to judge the actions of other people, but is too large to allow these people to know each other well enough to be able to make such judgement combined with an increasing amount of private information being publicly communicated = recipe for trouble.
threatening to kill someone publicly is never a good idea.
Yes, she was upset and "venting" but what you put on the Net stays on the Net. I always treat EVERYTHING I post online as public and manage my words with care, as they may come to haunt me someday. It's a shame. What she needed was to be forced to attend counseling, not have her entire college career ruined. But maybe people will learn from her mistake.
Do not disturb. Already disturbed. http://www.teaaddictedgeek.com
So, the Professors were deathly afraid of her morbid comments, which lead to her to be terminated as a student. I don't think she should have undertaken her commenting to that level. I just wish that the professors would just bury the hatchet and let her rest in peace.
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
Real adults take repsonsibility for their actions and words no matter on or offline.
A student made threatening statements and was barred from going to the place where she admitted she will preform said actions. Nothing new.
It was made on her public fb profile (private or public doesnt actually matter) would hold the same weight if she were to write it in her non-digital diary I would say.
But on a lighter subject, I think a 29 year old would be too old to 'rage' like that over facebook. Something I would expect out of a high schooler =\
Since when does being a Socialist mean 'someone who has a different opinion than me'?
"For whatever reason, this professor took it personally."
Hrm, was it the part about stabbing, "a certain someone in the throat with a trocar," or maybe the part about spending, "the evening updating my 'Death List #5' and making friends with the crematory guy," all in the context of, "looking forward to Monday's embalming therapy?" And yet the dumb bitch actually doesn't get it. Being pissy is one thing, making very specific public remarks about killing someone and disposing of the body, on the other hand, pretty much guarantees a visit by the po-po, and not to pat you on your angsty little head and tell you it's going to be OK.
That is rediculous. In a land of free speech... How many times have people said in a state of rage, "I want to kill him"... they don't actually mean it, they just say it. That is fucking pathetic, and I hope she can find some good legal representation and sue the University because that is an absolute joke, everyone has emotions and sometimes they get the better of you, to deny that is denying your own humanity. Absolute joke.
I thought the standard operating procedure was to shoo three bullet through her laptop. What happened to that? Once the laptop is shot the person would have been rendered harmless and she could attend class with the embalming tool,
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
Consider this one to grow on, Amanda. Don't publicly threaten to stab others in the throat with an embalming knife. It makes people nervous.
According to the article, the Ms. Tatro complained that for whatever reason, the professor was "taking it personally". Excuse me? She was talking very explicitly about her "Death List #5" and what exactly she would do with her very sharp instrument the following Monday in class.
How is a professor to know who is "just ranting" and who might be mentally unbalanced? I say, a prudent move by the prof.
Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
First, in most higher education setting, one is there at the pleasure of the faculty. Even though we pay tuition, we pay for the privilege or working with these people. I am sure many will say that we just pay for the hours so we can get a sheet of paper, but the fact is that the educational process and relationship with professors are still important.
Second, the other students at the University are also paying for the education, and, unlike high school, should not have to be distracted by these unstable personalities.
Third, this is not some teenager. This is a pretty much fully grown adult that expects to work in the delicate field of the end of life industry. Even if she is just going to working in basement of some country morgue, I would hope that such a person would at 29 years old have other coping strategies than threatening to kill someone who terminates a relationship. I mean really, if she goes postal when her boyfriend walks out, what will happen after her fourth autopsy of the day?
Not to speak of things I know nothing about, but maybe the facbook message was just a pretext. Maybe her profs have been pushing her away from the field for a while now.
"She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
And I do believe I was a minor during that childhood. If someone said it on the net it has to be taken seriously. I'm holding my breath waiting for the police to take Mr. Lucas into custody or, at the very least, Chris Hansen to ask him to have a seat.
Kwisatz Haderach
Sell the spice to CHOAM
This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
I would ban students for merely having a Facebook account (or at least for attempting to access it using college bandwidth).
Anyone who spends any significant amount of time on that utter e-cesspool of amateur gossip queens attention seekers and other undesirable groups of society who for some reason can't or refuse to socialise in real life can't possibly have the bare minimum of intelligence required to be in college.
'Less of course they were building an app in order to make money from the said horde of idiots, then I would encourage them
So, thinking about committing a crime is now the same as actually committing a crime?
I'm NOT posting anonymously because I live in Minnesota, and I'm going to say "I am thinking about stabbing the U of M Campus Police, as well as the Professor Dipshit that called them about this."
I fucking DARE you to come harass me over this post. I FUCKING DARE YOU.
"Be prepared, son. That's my motto. Be prepared." --Joe Hallenbeck
Repeat after me:
"The Internet is not Private"
"The Internet is not Private"
Why for God's sake have children become so stupid that they cannot comprehend that making threats on the Internet is no different then making them in a mall? The bathroom stall has a latch on it for "privacy" but yelling "I will kill everyone in this mall" is still gonna land you in jail for making threats.
Sterilize this moron so she cannot breed, we need to slow down the Idiocracy here pretty soon...
-=[ Who Is John Galt? ]=-
If you say things like that you need to be careful of your audience. This applies whether or not you are joking. If she had said it out loud and the wrong person overhead, the same thing would have happened. Posting it on Facebook just means that all 300 of her "friends" can "overhear" her - and maybe more depending on her privacy settings.
Facebook is not your Personal Army!
This Sig does not Exist.
She was considering an extra-curricular project.
OK a new size TV
If she actually DID the kill the poor sap, and we find out that she posted about it beforehand on her FB page, everyone would be up in arms... "Why didn't someone do something about it? This could have been prevented!"
We can't have it both ways.
Someone who has expressed specific thoughts about hurting others is a danger to the public. She should be detained for psychiatric evaluation for 30 days as a precaution.
Is anyone else turned on right now?
Facebook.
Working as intended.
You would probably not be able to attract students or faculty in sufficient numbers to stay open. Sure, Facebook wastes a hell of a lot of time. But so does Slashdot. And I could point you to specific instances where I learned something that was of professional, academic relevance to my work on both Facebook and Slashdot.
We're still trying to figure out how newfangled media works. The first thing anybody does with any new technology is find the most gratuitous possible activities that you couldn't really do before. Social media is in the gratuitous-pointlessness phase right now, but I guarantee you it will mature into something of value.
If the erosion of freedoms starts now, I fear that by the time I die, the world will be much, much different from the heydays of the internet when everything was open and without restrictions...I fear that we will have a very strict and monitored society where your every move will be logged and your every thought will be scrutinized for compliance with the dominant peoples' satisfaction.
I have to say, I'm all for the school making this decision. The school is quickly blamed for not "seeing the threat coming" when school shooting occur, and being tasked with coming up with ways to keep violence from occurring on campus.
People need to realize that what you post on the internet is visible by many people, and that it's much different from saying something to your BFF while hanging out on the couch at home.
It was a threat, plain and simple. It's not the school's responsibility to figure out if you are joking or not. They are doing what they can to protect the people at the school. Do we want to bring an end to bullying? Do we want to keep our schools safe? Then idiots who make threats like this, joking or no, will have to be punished for it.
I mean, come on ... if he'd posted on his facebook, "man, I hope to read in the news that a certain b***h was raped" the guy would have been kicked out school probably, joking or no. Women's groups would be calling for his ostracism from all that he holds dear.
Having police question her and check her for weapons? That's a safety precaution and appropriate.
Banning her from the campus? Not so much.
I could understand if, after police had questioned her, they felt she was a justifiable risk to campus security, but TFA states that they "consider the matter closed" and aren't filing any charges. Because of this, I don't really think a ban from campus was appropriate.
This is why I only post pictures of LOLCats on any social network I am part of.
She just needed to post a pic of a kitten in the morgue with the caption "I am in yur Morgue, stabbing yur throt!"
Tsukasa: All I really want, is to be left alone...
Steve Ballmer has been banned from all Google offices due to his public statements that "I'm going to kill fucking Google!"
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
Then I grew older. I realized no country is inherently cool, when you look at the society and politics and not just action movies. USA seemed reasonable though, I remember a history (or geography) lesson in elementary school when a teacher described the basic ideas of the constitution, and the emigration from Sweden->America in the previous centuries. Inspiring.
Fast forward til now. Do I awe you? No, because in my opinion (which will be modded down really freaking fast), your country is going downhill. You are teaching religion as science, I don't even think fundamentalist muslims do that. Then you sort-of ban freedom of speech by forbidding blogging, of all stupid things to ban (whatever happened to land of the free?), introduce laws like DMCA, and are actively trying to destroy the whole worlds intellectual property laws.
Think about it.
Regards, Swedish citizen.
How long before we arrive at the Minority Report state where what we THINK is enough to get us incriminated? Somebody said it above, we're either for freedom of speech, or we're not. Talking about something isn't the same as doing it. And all this "for every disaster prevented" stuff is bullshit.
I work in IT. If I got nailed to a wall everytime I said I wanted to injure kill somebody, be it outloud, on twitter, facebook, whatever, I'd be serving dozens if not hundreds of consecutive life sentences. Its part of my vernacular and my charming personality. I say "Fuck You" a lot too, that doesn't mean I actively want to go have intercourse with that person.
Fucking people need to lighten up. We have gotten so scared of our own fucking shadow is despicable. If the chick has a past history of mental illness or a criminal record, then yeah, they should give things a look. Apparently the threat wasn't very credible if they waited until she arrived at class to detain her. Newsflash, the police can find your ass, and its not like she was actively trying to evade them.
The profs in question overreacted, BADLY. The University doubly so, handing down a campus ban like that.
The usual thing:
a) Someone posted something stupid online
b) Someone else overreacted
Sounds like pattern? Read it before? Here on /.? Impossible :-)
CU, Martin
No school administrator has ever been fired, or even ended up with a public relations problem, for overreacting to a threat from a student.
"Qwerty" someone? Ever heard of i18? Not to mention the stupid Dvorak-nerds, they have feelings too! (I think)
So she'll learn what it's like to be responsible for both herself andd to someone else. Like in any corporate job. Hell, I'm a freelancer and I constantly have to deal with "power hungry asshole" clients (I once got 15 calls in one day from a client to "just check on the status" of a document I was working on).
That's pretty much how life works when you depend on someone else for something (payment in my case, education in her case).
What if the ex-boyfriend is the mortuary science professor?
BTW, please read the Star-Tribune account before assuming the Slashdot synopsis is the full account of the FaceBook posting... you know if you're not already trained to not RTFA.
I don't get it how some people just can't sit down and have a coffee. Who has the time to go through people's Facebook profiles looking for this stuff? I wonder if the instructors actually taught instead of just surfing and looking for this nonsense. On whose money were they surfing Facebook? I guess tax money, right. They should investigate that.
+1 for truth.
Do not disturb. Already disturbed. http://www.teaaddictedgeek.com
You ban her student from campus?
If it's a public university, then lol u gonna get sued.
The only thing that should have happened was a temporary restraining order against her (from the ex).
I didn't RTFA so I don't know whether or not it happened, but I'm going to assume it didn't.
The mortuary industry is very, very, very conservative. They take a dim view on anything that could tarnish their reputation. If it was any other industry, I would find this a ridiculous over reaction.
Just because one may say, "I feel like killing someone!" does not in anyway mean said person will actually carry it through. It's just a vent. That's all!
And if we kill off places where people can vent safely, some may actually *do* the deed rather than just "scream" the deed.
Man, I feel like shoving all the idiots on our planet onto the "B" Ark. No, I'm not serious. Besides, in the case of Earth,that would have to be a very LARGE spaceship. And the billions will most likely not go willingly. Or maybe they would, being the idiots they are and all...
Ruby Neural Evolution of Augmenting Topologies
I have no idea why her boyfriend dumped her.... yikes!
School has always been like a prison, they just removed the gilded part. Why AC? Your post was insightful.
I think the issue here is that people would rather err on the side of caution. You can't walk up to someone on the street and say "I'm gonna kill you" without consequences. They are illegal and a felony. Why would anyone think the same thing over the phone, or via e-mail would be any less so?
She said that she "wanted" to do something, not that she had any intention of following through with it. An unrelated post said she was looking forward to class.
There's a world of difference between wanting to do something and actually doing something.
From the actual news piece, I doubt the instructors actually feared for their own safety, at least, I hope not.
From an instructor's perspective (in physics), it's not cool to joke about using lab equipment in dangerous ways because I am not your friend, I do not know that you are joking, and I am assuming responsibility for you while you're in my class. I don't want you to hurt yourself (what I really worry about), particularly under my supervision. I have sent students home who were too immature to handle dangerous lab equipment (high voltage power supplies, radioactive materials... no one has done anything dangerous with the blocks on an inclined plane--no one has tried), I have not had anyone I felt was too depressed or angry (yet). I hope I would make make such a student take a visit to a school counselor before going to the police!
As anyone here ever subject to a break-up can attest, the ex will always want to kill you, certainly at least for the first week.
(Regardless of cause, or who did or said what, or who initiated it - and regardless that this is /. and I must be new here.)
So, today's lesson is simple - always date girls attending school in Minnesota.
The negative press she'll receive after her tirade will have you mercy-dating as the good guy in no time!
As Homer likes to say - SWISH!
Pathological kinda promises Path + Logical - but instead, you get stuck with pathetic.
Facebook and Myspace are not a substitute for social interaction. They are not a rich communication media so things like subtlety are nonexistent. Furthermore, when you make a vague general comment, the reader might think you were talking about them.
Basically, stop being emo, douche-fags and posting every lame sorry and bellyache for the world to read. So your boyfriend broke up with you, waaaaaaahh! Now you're banned from campus, you do want to stab your teachers now because of that? It's the modern-day natural selection, the ban-stick!
I live in the deep south - far far away from 3G wireless signals. Without giving too much away, I had a friend who was involved a "terroristic threat" lawsuit. He'd left a voicemail saying he was going to whip someone's ass - basically informing the person to stay away from his property or else.
He was nearly convicted on the felony account. Keep in mind, simple battery and simple assault are misdemeanors. So, his lawyer said he'll have less trouble if he just walks over to the guys house and beats him in his front yard than if he threatens to do so.
So, depending on your state, pay respect to the law. Swing first, and ask questions later.
never let a woman touch your cock who's spent the day touching the cocks of dead people.
in 6 months listening music will be illegal and dangerous, in one year thinking wil be a threat,
she is studying mortuary science; Of course her posts are dark.
What next? Man studying at clown school thrown out because his facebook posts were too evil?
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
I think she had just watched too many of the Re-Animator movies, and was suffering from a popcorn overdose.
I work in education. If I had a student say they were looking forward to killing someone in my class, I'd be concerned. And if they DID kill someone in my class, everyone would be posting here saying, "Jeez, didn't you all see the clear signs posted on the internet? Why didn't anyone do anything?"
Wowe.
"In general, gleeking occurs when an accumulation of saliva in the submandibular gland is propelled out in a stream when the gland is compressed by the tongue. The stream of saliva is released in the general direction of the front of the mouth. If the mouth is open the jet may project several feet. Gleeking is more likely when the salivary gland has been recently stimulated, but even a residual amount of saliva in the gland may be released by gleeking."
See also, 'skeeter'
----
Way to disrupt your opponents' xi!
What the fuck is it that you american's live in such state of paranoia?
It's good to know that Americans aren't the only ones who don't know how to properly capitalize or use an apostrophe!
If we had cameras everywhere (yeah, we're working on it) and no right to bear arms, I'm sure the idiots who feel threatened at every turn wouldn't act like such wimps all the time.
The world sure is changing. If I'd been in Junior High now instead of the 1960s I'd probably have gone to jail and certainly would have been expelled. Hell, when I was in college you could smoke in class!
Free Martian Whores!
Don't forget the obvious...how did someone even notice her comment on facebook? My guess is she is one of those network hungry people who just friend everyone. That will teach her. Choose who you let in your facebook carefully, your privacy settings carefully, and don't stay stupid things. Keep those for yourself.
Personally I would like to see her hire a lawyer and sue the university. I could not possibly see the legal justification for terminating a student who paid tuition over a social media comment. Pretty sure that would be considered a drastic measure and overstepping the universities authority. Would make for a great media story!
Do you pay your employer to employ you? If so; I suggest you seek new employment.
This is a case of a customer (student) paying for a service (education) and then having the service provider (university) decide on what basis the provider will provide the service based on the behaviour of the customer with no repercussions to the service provider. The university neither refunds her money, nor offers her service in lieu. Seems to me that alone is a sufficient difference in the relationship between student-university and employee-employer to render your comparison NULL and void
I am all about the 1st Amendment and the Freedom of speech. When this student said where, when, and how she was gonna carry out what she said this became a legitamate threat in my opinion. All that was open to interpretation was who. It would be unwise to let any threat with that amount of info to go unnoticed.
> "...have a counselor sit down with her."
Counselor (who looks a bit like the x-bf, but only because they're both male): "Ok, Ms. Jaundice, I'm with the University and I'm here to help. How are you tod..... URRGGAAHHH!!!!" (embalming instrument to the throat sounds.....blood on floor and Ms. J., etc.)
so never say anything online that can be traced back to you
"If you give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest of men, I will find something in them which will hang him."
it is human nature, you do something others don't like, and they will use whatever power they have to harm you
this woman said something those with power over her didn't like, they used their power to harm her
Its amazing to me how supposedly freedom loving Americans are really quick to try and use non-government methods to limit other's freedoms.
Why should anyone be "free" to abuse anyone they like, without consequence? That is not freedom at all, but binding someone to prevent action (the campus in this case).
It's mad to think that in fact that has anything to do with blocking freedom, when she was free to talk and they were free to not let her on campus. No freedoms were blocked, she is still perfectly free to bitch on Facebook.
I guess you people outside the U.S. don't understand freedom at all, given your example.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
If we're going after thought-crimes, then, best to imprison or otherwise incapacitate everyone BEFORE the criminal thoughts even occur. After all, as you say, there is no way to tell what might happen if we don't do it; it's netter to not roll the dice, don't leave that to chance, and stop a potential murderer.
The comments are obviously off the cuff remarks over being frustrated, and she got screwed over by a system that punishes speech.
Anyway, chick sounds hot tho.
If not for those stories Facebook would seem socially irrelevant.
Hear hear, Facebook changed his-her life (now buy the book).
If anyone is interested in the story from the campus paper (Minnesota Daily), here it is:
U student suspended after threatening remarks on Facebook
Yes, when a girl rejects me it pisses me off so much that I make jokes about how I'm going to knock them out with my baseball bat and rape them.
So far I've been put into solitary incarceration, but I'm looking to have a woman join me soon for joking about cutting the throat of the guy that dumped her. Or not.
Metal Hottie 23?
I would totally hit
slut
Why do we keep getting these facebook stories? I felt like there's general agreement on /. that a) using facebook isn't the most clever career move and b) that the world is full of morons who don't understand that things you post on the Internet might actually be read by somebody.
Schools usually are completely stupid when it comes to handling students. It's a national tradition.
What about this?
http://cabinet.auriol.free.fr/Documents/cache_catharsis.htm
"""
Popular belief in the catharsis theory remains strong despite the theory's dismal record in research findings. According to the catharsis hypothesis, acting aggressively or even viewing aggression is an effective way to reduce anger and aggressive feelings. One likely reason for the continued widespread belief in catharsis is that the mass media continue to endorse the view that expressing anger or aggressive feelings is healthy, constructive, and relaxing, whereas restraining oneself creates internal tension that is unhealthy and bound to lead to an eventual blowup.
The present research was concerned with a pair of related questions. First, can media support for the catharsis hypothesis cause people to engage in catharsis-seeking activities, such as aggressive action? Second, if media messages do persuade people to believe in the effectiveness of catharsis, will their own indulgence in aggressive action produce that effect?
The concept of a self-fulfilling prophecy suggests that people's beliefs can shape their choices and the outcomes of their actions, so that expectations tend to come true by virtue of the changed behaviors resulting directly from the expectations (e.g., Darley & Fazio, 1980). Although researchers have mostly failed to find laboratory evidence of catharsis effects, it is plausible that media endorsement produces such self-fulfilling prophecies, which in turn might be sufficient to sustain popular belief in catharsis. In the present research, we provided people with procatharsis messages telling them that acting aggressively or expressing anger is a good way to reduce inner tensions. Consistent with the self-fulfilling prophecy notion, we investigated whether such messages would increase behavioral choices of aggressive activity following an anger provocation (Study 1) and, more important, would help produce the anticipated benefits of expressing anger (Study 2)--specifically, by reducing aggressive behavior toward another person after the participant was supposedly able to reach catharsis by hitting a punching bag.
"""
That said, I agree with you lots of aspects of our current social system, especially the school system, are messed up in various ways. My own thoughts on how to fix them:
"Post-Scarcity Princeton, or, Reading between the lines of PAW for prospective Princeton students, or, the Health Risks of Heart Disease"
http://www.pdfernhout.net/reading-between-the-lines.html
Also related by me more recently on education issues:
http://www.cnewmark.com/2009/12/making-govt-work-a-huge-step.html#comments
http://listcultures.org/pipermail/p2presearch_listcultures.org/2009-October/005379.html
http://listcultures.org/pipermail/p2presearch_listcultures.org/2009-November/005584.html
http://listcultures.org/pipermail/p2presearch_listcultures.org/2009-November/006005.html
A 21st century issue: the irony of technologies of abundance in the hands of those still thinking in terms of scarcity.
This happened at Eastern Illinois University sometime last year. It was even worse at EIU as the reason the student was banned and expelled was his status saying, "[on Tuesday] things are going down." That Tuesday happened to be his birthday, with a big party going on at the bowling alley. There also happened to be a major sports conference going on Tuesday night. Simply outrageous action, but... That being said, everything that can be found on the subject has very little to do with what the university states and is almost entirely heresy from the banned former student as the university's policy is to not comment on such occurrences and EIU's journalism is not necessarily the best. Links posted below for interested parties to follow: http://media.www.dennews.com/media/storage/paper309/news/2009/03/03/News/33.Update.Student.Banned.From.Campus.For.Allegedly.Posting.Threats-3656537.shtml http://media.www.dennews.com/media/storage/paper309/news/2009/03/04/News/Student.Threat.Was.A.Misunderstanding-3658414.shtml http://media.www.dennews.com/media/storage/paper309/news/2009/03/05/Opinions/Editorial.Walkers.Banning.Leaves.Questions.Unanswered-3660348.shtml Yeah, break ups happen and making some statement about how much you want to kill your ex happen as well, not that we would know as we all are on /. but still. When someone gets banned and expelled for saying, "in five days things are going down," something's really wrong.
"Don't meddle in the affairs of a patent dragon, for thou art tasty and good with ketchup." ~ohcrapitssteve
It's perfectly reasonable for an institution to set standards for what behavior they consider appropriate for their members. If the University of Minnesota considers public threats against another student inappropriate, it really doesn't matter whether it's an illegal act or not.
... back when a conversation would simply "die" after whatever dumbass comment was made on impulse during a brief moment of frustration?
Nowadays, we're all expected to bottle our emotions, letting them slowly fester into a mental illness that could eventually result in a random explosion of violent behavior toward anyone who might rub you the wrong way at just the right moment.
Knee-jerk reactions to off-color commentary made to a completely unrelated audience are likely going to be the cause of several future columbine-like incidences. And why? Because you can't give anyone even the slightest bit of breathing room to themselves.
The internet may have brought the world closer together, but perhaps that difference is starting to make a number of us feel claustrophobic.
Also, how do such comments reach such seemingly unrelated audiences? Is it just coincidence, or is someone constantly watching this person for some specific purpose?
8==8 Bones 8==8
Seriously though, what were the police thinking? The police should have specifically known that acting on these comments would place them and the college into a bad position. The fact alone that the comments lack immanency mean that they cannot take action as the "threats" are without credibility.
Second, the school cannot just ban access to it's campus based upon words that a student made that are not illegal. Not only is her speech protected speech, there is no excuse to single out this woman over the thousands of other women who express opinions of equivalent displeasure.
Does the university go into lock down every time someone mentions "far bomb"? Do people get arrested when talking about shooting up another person in counterstrike? Does the bomb squad come out when someone says "thats the bomb!"?
Again IANAL, but the "Terry Frisk" prior to entering the classroom by the police, like wise does not seem legal to me as well. First off, Terry v. Ohio limits the terry frisk to a non-invasive brief external frisk for hard objects that could potentially be weapons, for the purpose of officer safety.
Given the lack of immanency of the "threats" and the complete normality of such statements being made by individual whom were in a deep intimate relationship that turned into a deeply dissatisfied relationship, there lacks any "reasonable suspicion" for an officer to place himself in a position to deliberately detain in such a fashion as to create a non-consensual encounter that also allows the officer to terry-frisk when they otherwise would not be allowed either.
Terry vs. Ohio states that the limitation on when a Terry Frisk is exceptable when
"...the facts available to the officer at the moment of the seizure or the search warrant a man of reasonable caution in the belief that the action taken was appropriate?"
This of course begs the question, was the alleged intended victim of the woman at the class room? What articulable reason did the officer have to believe that the woman posed a danger to the occupants of the class room?
Personally, I hope she financially rapes the police department and the school. These "zero tolerance" policies are absurd and allow for great harm to come to innocent people due to out-of-context innocuous comments or a vindictive person who wishes to harass another.
Those bills are notoriously difficult to spot, lend them to me and I'll outline the numbers for you!
while yes americans are revoltingly bureaucratic, paranoid and increasingly orwellian, you also have to question the temperment of someone who actually studies mortuary science. xD.
Umm....
Just to clarify - girl talks about stabbing someone in the neck and death lists, and we're best off ignoring her?
Options:
a) It's hyperbole, she doesn't mean anything, has to miss a few classes (makes them up later, gets let off coursework, etc) and the school spends a few grand getting someone to talk to her for a while.
b) Outside, tiny chance she's unhinged and intends to hurt someone, and eventually does.
From all the people I've spoken to (lots - I'm in a medical field), a phrase always comes up "I'm glad I did it [counseling], everyone could do with a bit of it..."
If she's not homicidal, she'll probably still benefit...
Logically, if we can afford the counseling, why not do it? Cost is literally the only downside, and the avoidance of that tiny risk, along with mental support for her is a huge upside!
It's called Minority Report! God forbid you of putting your murderous thoughts down in paper, because they will come and get you!
This student may be a serial killer, despite overwhelming odds on the contrary, and thus it is important to ensure the safety of all students by having her name, face, and location plastered all over the media where potential employers might find in the future, even if the comments were, in all likelihood, 99.999999% in frustration and not in seriousness.. That'll make sure she won't become the next Carl Panzram, at any rate
Fixed.
Just consider that. How big is your school? How big is your town? How many nutters do you think there are in a student body population of 50,000 students, just based on raw probability?
I did grad school at the Minneapolis campus. Let's see... December... daytime highs might be above zero F, certainly not if measured in C. Less than 8 hours of daylight right now. That *is* an environmental stress, even if your car *does* start reliably and have a good heater, which would make it an atypical student car.
Consider the situation: High pressure professional program, a University so large that the people in the administration to whom you are just a student ID number are... just a staff ID number to the management.
Yes, I'd worry about my students becoming unhinged. At any point in time, any population that large will have several people who are deeply hurting inside.
Just so nobody takes my comments to negatively: U of M can be a great place, but you have to make your own way it in.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uwOL4rB-go&feature=related
Sometimes threatening to kill someone is actually very funny.
And hat tip to Monty Python's "It's a flesh wound"
calling someone a 'dumb bitch' for outbursts that im sure you have never had... or have you?
mr frowny face?
What is this "real life" stuff you keep talking about ?
You mean this strange dimension, full of sunlight, which lies above our basements and that we are forced to cross in order to buy our beers ?
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
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