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Is the Line-in Jack On the Verge of Extinction?
SlashD0tter writes "Many older sound cards were shipped with line-out, microphone-in, and a line-in jacks. For years I've used such a line-in jack on an old Windows 2000 dinosaur desktop that I bought in 2000 (600 Mhz PIII) to capture the stereo audio signal from an old Technics receiver. I've used this arrangement to recover the audio from a slew of old vinyl LPs and even a few cassettes using some simple audio manipulating software from a small shop in Australia. I've noticed only recently, unfortunately, that all of the four laptops I've bought since then have omitted a line-in jack, forcing me to continue keeping this old desktop on life support. I've looked around for USB sound cards that include a line-in jack, but I haven't been too impressed by the selection. Is the line-in jack doomed to extinction, possibly due to lobbying from vested interests, or are there better thinking-outside-the-box alternatives available?"
So that leaves us with some interesting cases:
Look, if you could give us more information like what operating system you use and what motherboards you're using, I'd be willing to track down the manuals on them and verify there's no line-in jack and take a boomerang to the head if I'm mistaken. But couldn't this problem have been solved with a couple bucks? My eeePC netbook has a line-in. I really don't see them disappearing at all.
P.S. If you're looking for something a little more professional, external Audigys and M-Audio Pre USBs are useful for what you're doing though they are pricey ($200 USD).
My work here is dung.
Buy a USB headset that includes a microphone. They usually have an adapter that includes both line-in and line-out.
Why do you need two inputs? I highly doubt there's much difference between the line-in jack on your sound card and the stereo microphone jack. If you were hoping a line-in jack would somehow give you better audio quality, I think you'll have to look to more professional gear for that. Try Guitar Center.
Breakfast served all day!
All motherboards have em.
More likely, line-in is just not a feature used by enough mobile users to make it worth putting on a laptop.
Most laptops don't come with 7.1 surround sound output either.. and it's not because surround sound is fading into the sunset..
Any desktop motherboard with integrated sound will probably have one though.. and just about any add-on sound card will as well.
_AND_ any decent external sound "card" will probably have one.. have a look at terratec's produce line. The DMX 6Fire USB has a whole plethora of inputs.
Even cheap mini-itx boards (MSI Wind for instance) have line in.. just get yourself one o` those...
It may just be me but I believe my laptop, at least under linux, has a mic preamp boost option. It's POSSIBLE that with that disabled the mic port acts just like a line-in.
Regardless I don't think I've had a laptop in the past 5+ years that had anything other than headphone out and mic in available on it.
Regarding sound cards, most of them have reconfigurable audio ports with seperate options for both line in as well as mic in, so it's possible you're just not looking around enough.
It's called an audio pad. Magically takes the -10 dB IHF level of your Technics stereo down to the -45 to -52 dB mic level so you can plug it into your laptop.
Wait wait wait, it gets better...they're cheap. And you can make them yourself.
The line-in jack will disappear with physical audio. Honestly, unless you're a DJ, it's pretty unlikely that you have any audio that doesn't exist as something digital (MP3, AAC, WAV, etc.)
And if you are a DJ, you should be using a dedicated piece of hardware... Don't get me wrong, this makes me sad (probably because audio is a hobby of mine) but it isn't at all surprising.
NewslilySocial News. No lolcats allowed.
There's inevitably some noise that creeps in with a line-level jack on your PC. It's not much, but it drives audiophiles to distraction. Moving it to a USB device helps reduce the noise by an order of magnitude or so. That may be one thing driving the change.
What about a USB recording device? They [potentially] have less noise, and they're pluggable anywhere.
Polar-Bear-In jack.
If you took your investments in "all of the four laptops I've bought" (4) you could have bought a MacBook that has a line-in.
I'm just saying.
Also, your laptops seem to have a useful lifespan of just 2.5 years. Sumthin' wrong there, too.
My 10-year old PowerBook with line-in is still in use.
What have you been buying???
My latest three desktops have all come with a line-in, as have my latest two notebooks, including a netbook. Only my wife's MacBook doesn't have Line In, of my most recently purchased hardware.
Also, there's the Griffin iMic, a quite cheap device with line in. (Switchable between mic-level and line-level in, even.)
Another non-functioning site was "uncertainty.microsoft.com."
The purpose of that site was not known.
Yes, a lot of new laptops have neither a microphone nor line-level audio input jack. Most people will never use it.
One easy solution is just to get a USB line in adapter for around $40, rather than having to keep an entire dinosaur computer around for just one function.
I don't know how well it works, but here's a $10 adapter on Ebay that does video too. There are other similar products around.
Can anyone tell me how to set my sig on Slashdot?
Other than a few Slashdot readers and luddites, few modern PC purchasers need a line-in jack. iTunes and Amazon won, for $9.99 you can get a perfect MP3 rip of my old vinyl, without spending 1+ hours per album ripping then tweaking, then exporting.
It went out with a whimper.
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
There are hundreds of professional audio cards available - either internal or USB - that can record. Even the cheapest ones will do a much better job than the integrated sound card on your computer. Any normal music store will have a large selection to choose from.
load the cassette tapes into my Apple ][+ if you take away my line-in port?
And so do all my pci soundcards. Maybe you're just buying crappy hardware?
All the new desktops still have line-in jacks, as far as I've seen. If you're specifically looking at a portable platform intended to reduce size & weight, then of course they're going to be dropping jacks that are rarely used in a portable situation. However, line-in is still all over the place, and is great for consolidating media devices into 1 nice display & audio setup based around a non-portable computer, as well as the platform shifting purposes you're describing. I don't think the jack is going anywhere in the reasonable future.
It might be less of a conspiracy and more of a supply-and-demand thing. Most people have no use for and could care less about line in (I am not one of them, however). Since you are talking about laptops, anything that reduces space is often omitted, if it isn't really needed.
On desktop machines, I have not seen line-in disappear at all. And I bought a laptop last year, and it has mic/line-in, too.
I still am unsure of the difference between line-in and microphone-in, other than audio level (sensitivity).
And it came with a separate line-in jack along with mic and headphone out, and thats with the standard audio option
From one Australian to another. Aldi Supermarkets have a USB Turntable on special this week for $A79 - no line in required - complete with Windows software for recording. Simple, neat and good enough for making mp3s from your old vinyl. Cassettes are a different story, but I am sure there are plenty of options in that area too.
All the desktop machines I have have them, including the ultra-cheap large buyer business workstation that I have floating around. Desktop might take up a little more room, but they are more efficient and cost less.
This may be a stupid question, but what is the difference between the line-in and the microphone ports? Aren't they both used to receive data from an outside source?
There are lots of USB devices out there with a line-in jack.
Here's one I like a lot. Unfortunately, Turtle Beach has discontinued this product; fortunately, there are some still out there, so buy one now before it's too late.
http://www.turtlebeach.com/products/audio-advantage-srm/home.aspx
P.S. This is discontinued... does anyone know where I can find anything remotely similar that is not discontinued?
steveha
lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
A line-input jack takes up one of the most valuable resources on a laptop - space. Laptops are also electrically noisy because they are designed to be small and energy efficient, not electrically quiet. A laptop is not meant to be a good recording device.
Almost every PC sold has at least one Line-input jack. My PC has a line input jack and a coaxial digital S/PDIF input on the motherboard. You can buy USB devices all day long that have up to 24 input channels. I have a pair of 10-channel boards, each having 8 unbalanced analog, 2 XLR, and 1 more coaxial S/PDIF port.
Why do you need two inputs? I highly doubt there's much difference between the line-in jack on your sound card and the stereo microphone jack.
A microphone input is expecting microphone-level signals - not line level. There's a big difference, and without something similar to a DI box to correct the level, all you'll get if you put line level audio into a microphone jack is distorted overdriven noise.
Putting moderation advice in your
It's POSSIBLE that with that disabled the mic port acts just like a line-in.
It doesn't. Trust me. I was handed 12 hours of video with overdriven audio that can't be corrected (there's no good correction for clipped audio), all recorded that way because someone set up the recorder with line level audio going into the mic jack and never checked the recorded levels.
Putting moderation advice in your
Seriously, anyone who can't find analogue sound input for their computer hasn't bothered looking very hard. I can find it for you USB, Firewire, PCI, or PCIe. Stereo, 8 channel, 128 channel, whatever you like. You name the kind of audio capture you need, someone out there makes a product for it. All of them will be better quality than the line-in jack on a laptop, which generally has really poor filtering and thus lots of noise.
The parent is absolutely right in terms of the Behringer as a good, cheap solution. Need something better? You can get something like the M-Audio MobilePre (http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/MobilePreUSB.html) which has pretty good converters and some features you don't need. Still not enough, have to have no holds barred? Get yourself an Benchmark ADC1 (http://www.benchmarkmedia.com/adc1/) converter, which is just about as good as it get.
No matter what the level, from a highly adequate $35 USB audio interface, up to a $1,700 dedicated converter, you can get something that'll meet your needs, and do so online.
The only reason line in is dying on soundcards is people aren't using it much. On laptops, space is also a premium so why bother? Many desktop cards still have it, as they've got the space for more inputs.
I purchased an iAudio U3 some time ago. They don't seem to be in production anymore, but they were packed with features, including in-line recording. Very convenient for recording short clips right to the player on occasion, from other friends players if we were on the go.
Forgot to mention that they were using the Mic input with the boost turned off.
Putting moderation advice in your
I don't understand why people will spend five grand on a laptop, get pissed about its lack of features but at home still have an 8 year old computer that they relay on for all of their real work and data backup. Get a $500 desktop, it will outclass your laptop easily if you build it yourself and skip the microsoft tax. As far as speed and utility are concerned it'll blow any laptop away... then get a netbook for travel. If you're trying to rip 8tracks to MP3 while sitting in Starbucks, you're doing it wrong.
Why don't all car radio setups come with a line-in jack? Even many of the aftermarket ones don't have them (on the front, at least). Such a cheap part, and yet so many people use their ipods via FM tuner or tape adapter.
"The universe seems neither benign nor hostile, merely indifferent." --Carl Sagan
Many older sound cards were shipped with line-out, microphone-in, and a line-in jacks. For years I've used such a line-in jack on an old Windows 2000 dinosaur desktop that I bought in 2000 (600 Mhz PIII) to capture the stereo audio signal from an old Technics receiver.
We've arranged this with hardware manufacturers, so that you stop pirating music, Johnny.
regards,
RIAA
At least on my laptop. It has the normal three jacks, but I only just now saw that one was not the "line in", but an "SPDIF Out". Doesn't affect me either way, since I don't use either, but that may be behind some of the displacement. My drivers could probably change it around, though.
There is no conspiracy. Most people don't need line-ins on a laptop. Either:
1. Find a larger laptop that has the jacks
2. Purchase an external sound device (i.e. USB)
3. Use a desktop
Evolution: love it or leave it
You don't plug your trumpet in!? Please tell me more about it.
what line-in jack?
I've yet to buy a computer with fewer than 3 jacks (out, line in, mic in generally alternatively selectable as out1, out2, out3 for surround). But if you really don't have a line in, use the Mic jack and uncheck the "Microphone Boost" option. The +20dB boost is the difference between mic level and line level.
Most Intel HDA codecs just treat all jacks the same, the only difference is the settings. If you want to play around, grab HDA Analyzer and tweak things to your heart's consent. For example, on my laptop (3 jacks), I can output 5.1 audio, or output 4.0 plus get one mic, or 4.0 plus one input, or output stereo cloned through two jacks (great for listening with a friend), or even make all jacks inputs, route them to the three stereo ADCs, and capture 5.1 analog audio. In fact, as far as I can tell, the only "special" jack is the headphones jack, which appears to go through some sort of extra amp to boost it as an output (more than the codec chip is documented to do, though strangely it still works as an input; it might just be another case of Realtek failing at documentation). Other than that, each jack has "in" and "out" options, a headphone boost option (this is the standard one built-in to the codec), a set of mic preamp settings, and a mic vref setting.
In other words, you just need the right software to do whatever you want with your audio jacks these days. Crappy drivers (both on Linux and Windows) will usually severely limit you, compared to the capabilities of the hardware. At least under Linux, you can always use HDA Analyzer to poke the real hardware settings (on Windows, you're probably SOL).
Where will I plug in my high-fidelity stereo aux?
Then you need a USB turntable:
http://www.usbturntables.net/
Many decent ones available in the $100 US - $200 US range.
Sig this!
I'm a DJ, so I've got lots of various audio gear lying around. I've got a Numark mixer with USB out/in, an M-Audio MobilePRE USB, an M-Audio Connectiv, a Stanton ScratchAmp, a Creative X-Fi Notebook Expresscard, and an old Creative Extigy...and EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM sounds orders of magnitude better than the integrated audio chipset in my laptop when it comes to recording audio. While I agree with some of the other posters that many laptops these days have ports that pull double duty based on software, if you're looking for any sort of fidelity to your audio, you're going to want an external solution anyway.
Of all of the laptops I've used, the best noise floor I've ever gotten was -35db. there's this hiss that's present in every single one of the recordings I've made. In some recordings that have a very low dynamic range and are recorded at around -0.5db with a decent amount of loudness, the hiss is somewhat hidden and I can get away with it. In recordings with ANY amount of dynamic range at all, the hiss is audible and drives me up a wall. If you've ever heard the audio from a $200 handheld camcorder, you'll know what i'm talking about. On the other hand, the worst offender on the list above is the Numark mixer. My guess is that it is largely based on the fact that it has an integrated power transformer, unlike the rest of the list there. Even at that, the worst noise floor I've ever gotten from that mixer is -70db. You'd have to crank your stereo to about 8.5 to hear the hiss out of that thing. The MobilePRE USB is probably the best, with a floor of around -90db. You can crank your stereo to 11 and you'll hear hiss from your amp before you hear hiss from its recordings. Finally, the higher end stuff here (MobilePRE, Connectiv, Numark Mixer) all have inputs that inherently provide a better signal (XLR and/or RCA) than an 1/8" cable. Simultaneously, if you're recording from most sources other than an iPod, you'll need an adapter to make it fit an 1/8" jack anyway.
My Toshiba satellite only has a mic input, but when it senses that you have plugged something in, it pops up a dialog to ask whether you have plugged in a microphone or a line level audio source, and then configures the levels appropriately.
Yours may be similar. Try plugging into the mic input and see what results you get. If it doesn't work, you'll get horribly distorted audio. In that case, you'll need a USB audio adaptor.
If my call is important, why am I talking to a recording?
Folks here are imagining things. I've been buying laptops since before the Toshiba T1000. None. . . . none, have ever had line-in. NO laptop has line in. None. Not one. Mic in is not the same thing. If you want line-in for a laptop, you need to buy an external soundcard. Even though some people use it for one, and it can be done, the mic in not the same, and won't work for really critical work.
Please. http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Transit.html On order, will review and repost. But, please. There are plenty of USB and FireWire (IEEE1394) devices that have -6 dB line in jacks; from 1/8" stereo to multi-input XLR, 24-bit/96kHz no less!
Macs are different.
They only have line-in, no microphone in.
I know that it's an age-old rule of correcting others that one makes a mistake of the same nature in the corrective statement (I'm likely to suffer a few), but those phone jacks that you list (typically called TS for tip-sleeve when mono or TRS for tip-ring-sleeve when stereo or balanced mono) are most commonly sized in 1/4", 3.5mm, and 2.5mm. 1/2" would be awesome, but I've never seen one.
Starting to think the OP didn't use google (or set foot in a Microcenter/Fry's/BestBuy in the last 5 years). There's a million sub-$100 USB line-level devices out there that will do the trick nicely. And now that I am done being a jerk, I'll say I am a fan of m-audio stuff for casual recording, but any of those sub-$100 doodads should be about the same level of quality, and if you're careful and read the packaging, you'll get something that can handle a line level input without distorting. A heck of a lot easier than keeping a lame old PC just b/c it has an input jack.
Most laptop's "mic in" port is actually stereo. The only issue is, a real line-in expects a Phantom, while the mic-in doesn't. You can do one of two things:
a) Buy a phantom remover, or make your own. They are very cheap, and you can even make one in 10 minutes with only basic soldering skills Google for it.
b) If it's something quick, and quality isn't a major issue, you can try setting the gain for that port really down and recording that way. It works fine most of the time.
Stop looking for USB devices with a line-in. I've already looked, there are none.
WTF am I doing replying to an AC at 5 A.M on a Friday night?
Hard to beat this: http://www.vintageking.com/Prism-Sound-Orpheus?sc=18&category=388
There are tons of sound input devices marketed for music recording, and pretty much every price point you'd care to hit. The Prism is pretty top-of-the-line, but I'm sure there is something that would fit your needs if you just want to back up LPs here:
http://www.sweetwater.com/c695--USB_Audio_Interfaces
I've looked around for USB sound cards that include a line-in jack, but I haven't been too impressed by the selection.
It's one of the most saturated segments of audio gear: Sweetwater has 119 models. For audio stuff it's frequently a good call to buy a "professional" product; the consumer stuff is designed with the - mostly correct - assumption that people don't care about audio quality.
... also, I can kill you with my brain.
I'm glad my laptop doesn't have a line-in, what a waste that would be! It's a very *specialist* use-case that should not be installed standard. Are there really that many old records that haven't been converted to digital yet? Or is the problem just that certain people don't think they are entitled to download a digital version of something they already own without paying for it a second time?
no
My inspiron 1520 has a mic/line in port. can be either one. I think its more of a space issue. Anyway they havent been gotten rid of. Just combined with the mic port
"[A]ll of the four laptops I've bought since then have omitted a line-in jack."
[Jamie Hyneman]Well there's your problem[/Jamie]
Of course laptops have started leaving out the line in jack. This is because the input gain on a mic-in can be brought down to a line in level, and as a previous poster mentioned, is already stereo. Anyone serious enough to need a line in will most likely be using a PCI Express card, or at the worst an on board 5.1 audio chip (which will almost always include at least one plug that can be used for line in). The extra complexity to include a line in on a laptop simply isn't worth it for most manufacturers. For much less than $1000, you can get a brand new computer with a decent sound card to do what you want. Suck it up if it means that much to you.
The easiest way to convert a mic level input to line level is to use a simple t-pad attenuator you can make yourself. R1 & R3 = 600 ohms, R2 = 22 ohms. I use this myself with absolutely no loss of fidelity.
http://www.nu9n.com/tpad-calculator.html
this is news for nerds, stuff that matters? "newsflash! asshole can't figure out how to google something, details at 11!"
...why don't cars come with 8-track decks anymore? The mind boggles.
There are a ton of USB, Firewire and PCI audio interfaces on the market that do what you ask. You just have to move a little bit beyond consumer electronics stores such as BestBuy:
I don't know about line going extinct, mine has one...
As a professional musician, I tend to use something like this: http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/-Lambda-USB-Desktop-Studio?sku=245506 to record music into my computer. You can easily buy a 1/8th" stereo or TRS to 2 1/4" line Y cable, or some cable / adapter combo to accomplsh this task.
http://www.griffintechnology.com/products/imic
Oh great. More outboard gear to update, effit.
I Think Yes, USB OTG Will Replace Completely...:)
That's all well and good, but the mic inputs on a sound card or laptop won't accept line level input without the signal being attenuated to mic levels. They're designed for a normal moving coil or condenser mic input and that's all.
I'm not sure what a high-output pro audio mic has to do with this discussion. Just because one particular mic can produce high amplitude signals does not mean that a normal sound card mic input will accept them. Pro audio equipment that can accept a +8dBV input has little relevance to a sound card or laptop mic input which is designed for a cheap consumer grade microphone that works at a much lower level like -68dBV.
The simple fact of the matter is that the engineers who design the inexpensive audio hardware used in PCs expect the microphone input to be used to connect a microphone and not much else. If you want to connect something else, then you have to convert the signal level to the acceptable range for the input.
Putting moderation advice in your
I need to record stuff. (me blabbing)
Thing is, sound cards are subject to lots of internal interference. It's bad enough to torture my listeners with my speech, they shouldn't have to listen to crappy recordings as well.
This is why you don't want to simply attenuate a mic-in, low-z input will pull in lots of noise from the computer itself.
Also, if you're using compressors and other effects, you'll probably want a 24 bit recording (even if the finished product is 16 bit) because these effects can distort it (yes, even digital effects run after the initial recording..) my current setup introduces distortion, and the box lied.. it's not 24-bit..
For this reason, I've been looking at external USB "m-audio" sound cards, but I haven't heard anything about whether you get a true 24-bit, 96khz sampling rate on a linux box. Lots of stuff about "yea, works great" but no one seems to be willing to verify the sampling rate or whether it's truly 24 bit or some cooked up format. Haven't heard anything about the phantom power either.
It does seem line-in is a thing of the past, ask around and all you see are cards designed for playback.
Microphone and line-in jacks are definitely under-appreciated these days. Of course, less people need line-in jacks than used to, but microphone jacks are vital to online gaming. All the same, they could make them more robust. A couple years ago, I built two nearly-identical new computers, one for me, and one for my father.
A couple months later, he wanted to hook up the microphone that came with the motherboard so he could use VOIP, I talked him through it, and it wasn't working... Finally, I took the microphone and plugged it into my computer...suddenly my microphone jack didn't work anymore... I still don't know what was wrong with the mic (It was the same exact one I had already had plugged into my motherboard) but it fried the mic ports on both motherboards. I've recently taken to using my studio mic and mixer setup through a USB audio device for playing Left4Dead2 online with friends.... The sad irony of using a multi-hundred dollar audio rig to communicate things like "SHIT, SHIT, SHIT! KILL THIS FUCKING THING!!!" is palpable.
The other day, I took part in an online drawing seminar featuring Dave Gibbons... I wanted to record it (Something I wish I had done with the last webinar I attended) so I set up Camtasia Studio, only to find out that if I want to record system sounds, I need to use the line-in... (Nevermind the fact that that is STUPID.) So I took the USB line-in box (A Behringer U-CONTROL, similar to the U-PHONO that someone linked to earlier, but for interfacing a PC with a mixing board) and I literally took a cable and plugged the box's line-out into the line-in. Why is that even necessary? :
Anyway, I digress. I guess what I'm trying to say is, necessary or not, going extinct or not, I think they're being undermined by various issues and sometimes external devices are your only option, as sad as that may be.
Friend: "The NIC is misconfigured..." Me: "No prob, I'll just telnet in and fix it." *Silence*
I'm pretty certain that it'll still have a mic port. This will double as a line-in in a pinch. Just turn down the recording source as mics produce a lot lower level than a line-in.
I helped a tech-savvy friend with this. He asked how I knew that the signaling was compatible. Lulz were had.
This message brought to you by Jack Schitt's Previously Shat Shit
I don't think the line in jack is going to go extinct anytime soon. My current car, and a previous one, both had line-ins, and it was a major factor in the purchase of those vehicles. For the longest time, it was the only way to hook up an iPod or CD player (if the car didn't have one) or other things; I believe the satellite radios did it for awhile too, right?
Nowadays you can get a new car with an option to be "iPod compatible", but even if it works, it only works with iPods. Also, its an expensive option. A male-to-male line-in cable costs as much as $15 if you can't find a cheap one, but thats the upper limit. The options on new vehicles can add hundreds or thousands. Plus, the line-in "just works".
I used to work in the codec and sound card business for the PC market. Most modern computer will have auto-configurable ports for line out, MIC-in, and line out/headphone out. The codec will auto detect when an audio jack is plugged into the system and may show a pop-up dialog box asking the user what kind of jack it is. If there is no pop-up dialog box, then there should be some system control applet to select the LINE IN or MIC IN.
The line IN and MIC IN needs different handling. The MIC IN has a bias voltage while the LINE IN does not need this bias voltage. When the software is configured properly, this bias voltage is disabled when the user selects the Line IN. I do not foresee the Line IN going away anytime soon since the users will still want to input from their iPod, TV tuners, radio, etc.
After +200 replies, my post will probably be redundant, I will add my vote to the probably many coming for getting a budget pro-audio card. M-Audio, from the Audiophile to some other Firewire/USB products they have should do... if you are really on a budget, try Behringer... word to the wise, ***performance*** wise, they cannot be beat for the price; however, they are ***built*** kind of cheaply...
Well, you know, there are still a couple of people around that play musical instruments (you know, those expensive things you don't have to plug in)
The best ones still require you to. And they go up to eleven!
Mind you, I'm yet to see a laptop with a class-A set of tubes, either. And no, steampunk fans, gluing some non functioning brasswork and a couple of tubes doesn't make anything other than an ugly mess.
There is also a receiver, connected to the computer. This would get you near-perfect replication in some cases I think. I could be wrong.
I have the same requirement, as I want to listen to music all the time, and I have all my music on my laptop. My laptop is connected to my desktop to an Asus PCIE sound card, and just recently, I grabbed an HDMI 7.1 receiver.
The receiver has a plethora of sources available to it, and it is a reasonably intelligent device. It is more reliable than ATI's sound-over-HDMI drivers, which suck. But, I could also tell you that Sarah Palin is an idiot, or that the sky is blue, or that grass is really a pretty cool thing.
The receiver itself has two options available to it for special recording, some sort of crazy audiophile mumbo jumbo.
Additionally, most motherboards these days also have auto-sense jacks. You can force the motherboard to use any jack as anything, line in, left/right out, mic, etc.
Guns don't kill people, "with glowing hearts" kills people.
for two reasons
1. (as another poster said) - you're attenuating and then amplifying a signal: noise
2. LPs are recorded with the high frequencies boosted, and this is then attenuated in a dedicated circuit within the receiver. By skipping this, you're going to end up with tinny recordings (did I mention noise?).
Seriously, unless you've got a nice sound interface, don't bother recording LPs, cassettes, etc - the results won't be worth it. Cetainly that USB thing from thinkgeek (linked earlier) won't produce good recordings. Unless it's a bootleg or something... I've got a nice multitrack firewire interface, and even then I'd only think about recording LPs, cassettes, etc if I had a really nice deck..
Really, those integrated sound cards still suck :) They have gotten better within 5 years, but not yet match for external devices. I've been using this MobilePre, mainly for LInux support when I got it. Not pro-quality, seems bit pricey to specs, but has nice features for random home recording: decent preamp, XLR, 3/4 balanced/unbalanced, hi-z line and knobs for gain and headphone volume. I guess those newer Fast Track cards give better quality.
If you need only 2-4 channels, you'll be happy with USB device. Last time I checked Linux had good support only for USB1.1 devices (max 2 channel), and no USB2.0 devices (max 4 channel). If need more channels and bit lower latency get some Firewire device. Anyway you'll get better quality than with integrated.
How about something like this for mobile use, it's just a/d converter and very small size. Just line input, but for DAT-replacement might be good choice.
http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Transit.html
By the way, try Audacity for recording software. It's quite simple and easy to use for simple recordings.
http://audacity.sourceforge.net/
My mac mini has a line in instead a mic in, it works flawlessy for registration stuff, but i need to buy a usb active microphone to talk with my friend trough skype.
What do you mean you're not impressed by the selection of USB sound cards? You've got everything from basic £15 5.1 with mic and line in which are on par with motherboard's onboard sound (I use one on my laptop) to 10 input 24-bit 96kHz professional audio interfaces like the Edirol UA-101.
Also, do the laptops not have a mic socket? you can usually turn mic gain on and off in the sound control panel which essentially turns it into a line-in socket anyway.
There's a problem with the design of the RCA connectors... The signal path is connected before the ground.
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Long answer: You will ALWAYS have (even low-end) musician sound cards with analog inputs. Since the very point of those sound cards is, to have really good A/D converters. (Often lots of them, and pretty expensive ones too.)
Reality still is analog. Speakers are, Microphones are. And will always be, as long as they exist in reality. :) /me still loves his trusty old DMX 6fire 24/96. :) (I also have a Audigy and a onboard one. And when I switch back and forth, both sound like totally distorted crap.)
And the only difference from a microphone jack and a line-in jack is the amplification. Which is configurable to whatever you like on any serious sound card anyway.
Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
Last time I checked, when there's only one "in", you can tell the sound mixer if it's a "line" or "mic" input. Try these steps (in Windows XP, on my Dell D620):
1. Double-click the speaker icon in your task bar. The Mixer application (with multiple volume levels) should open.
2. Click on Options, then Properties. The Properties window should appear.
3. Select "Adjust volume for" "Recording".
4. Click OK. The mixer now morphed into the "in" controls.
5. Under "Line In", click on [ ] Select. Your "in" should magically become a line-in input.
6. Enjoy!
http://dilbert.com/2010-12-13
An E-Mu or Tascam USB interface is about $150 and is 24-bit and works with Mac or PC. A MacBook Pro or iMac not only has a line-in, it's 24-bit and is both analog and digital optical. iPods and iPhones have line-ins on the dock connector, you just need the right cable. Probably iPad is the same.
Generally speaking, pro audio is FireWire-based.
If recording LP, make sure you have the right preamplifier. LP doesn't give out a line level signal.
Buy a better computer.
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Pretty much every motherboard I've bought in the past ~5 years has had a line in jack. Before you complain that the fidelity of onboard audio sucks, let me point out that it has gotten a lot better lately (at least on reputable brands like Asus). While onboard may still not be up to true high fidelity standards, it is "good enough" for the majority of non-professional use cases.
Autodetection is the scary part. If the computer can detect whether the port should be an input, or an output, or whether it should be stereo or not, how long before it can detect whether there is a DRM signal embedded in the input and shut it down? Autodetection is the first step in closing the analog hole.
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...most mb I've seen still have the full complement of audio I/O ports, and two MSI notebooks that I've had in the last 18m, one just coming up on 1y old both have had line-in plus the rest of the ports as well as digital. I'd expect Apple product to have FAR fewer I/O ports, and possibly some of the other "brands", e.g. Lenovo. But also remember many companies don't even make their own notebooks(MSI & Asus do), but re-badge from OEMs like Clevo/Sager or MSI, e.g. Alienware. (These companies and a few other make notebook chassis, motherboard and LCD leaving CPU/RAM/hdd/optical disk/possibly GPU up to a re-seller to fill so you'd still have the same basic I/O ports that the base model offered. In the case of MSI it's a better deal in the end to buy their retail products v. a build from a re-seller unless you want to customize something beyond what MSI offers as a retail model in your region, e.g. hdd, CPU. Most MSI barebones come pre-packaged with the GPU while Clevo/Sager usually have options.)
Probably want to check online for particular notebook specs, and maybe even consider purchasing online v. the limited offerings that b&m stores tend to have or the cut down version that they offer at inflated prices. (My favorite is "Best" Buy with lower specs/less warranty so that they can load on their overpriced extended warranty on you, but it generally isn't worth it even at their sale prices as they tend to have low res LCD panels v. say what ASUS would offer through better retailers... mostly small shops and/or online warranty case here 1y + then buy "Best" Buy's plans v. 1y accidental damage coverage + 2 additional years of general warranty coverage. MSI has 2y general warranty coverage IIRC, and their chassis are noticeably smaller than ASUS/Clevo in the same class range. Tom's hardware has a review of a quad core GT725(I have dual/P8600) from last summer IIRC, although their build quality comments GREATLY differ from mine, e.g. wobbly battery? Also a thing about MSI is that their 17"(Gx 7yz (x=X or T, y/z = 0-9, MS-17yz barebones) models have a noticeably better build quality than their 15" models Gx 6yz (MS-16yz barebones)... those tend to have keyboard "flex" problems)
Also, I'd seriously consider another desktop just for upgradeability unless you really need/want a mobile platform.
Also, have you looked to see if there are any USB audio products? Or possibly Express Card Audio(newer external slot interface for notebooks) cards w/line-in? As a way around the base limitations of a desired model...
try zzounds.com or guitar center for usb or firewire connected audio i/o devices... look in the category "computer recording"
Over the past ten years the price of a decent machine went from a few thousand dollars to a few hundred dollars. Those line-in jacks aren't cheap, so when looking for an easy way to cut costs they're going to drop the stuff 99.9% of the population doesn't need.
I found a need for a line-in and went searching. Came across the m-audio fast track. It costs $99 and comes with the stripped down pro-tools m-powered essentials, which is good enough unless you're doing something that needs more than like 16 tracks. The hardware is required for pro-tools to run, but the hardware will work with any other audio software that doesn't tie the software to the hardware, i.e. every other DAW software on the market. The nice thing is that they have it at Best Buy, so you can even get it locally for the immediate impulse buy. There are other options in the avid family, such as the digidesign mbox2 devices that are a little more expensive, but come with pro-tools le, which is a step up from m-powered. For about $2000 to $2500 you can get one of the 003 devices. Then there's the entire universe of non-pro-tools-oriented stuff which costs less and probably has better audio quality but isn't nearly as fun or well integrated.
Sweetwater, Guitar Center and your local musical instrument and pro-audio store are your best friends. Go there and talk to someone. I had a problem where I was sure a magical $499.95 box was the right move. The sound guy at the local Guitar Center set me straight with the $8 solution. Really, go talk to an audio geek. They can teach you more in a minute hands-on than Ask Slashdot ever could, even if it were loaded with real audio geeks.
note the difference: Audio geeks know what they're talking about because they deal with professional audio equipment and would rather be called engineers or salesmen or something. Audiophiles masturbate to $800 electron-spin directionally optimized bullshit cables. Do not confuse the two. The pro will tell you your $5000 idea is dumb and all you really need is a $12 device and won't let you buy the $5000 device, even though they're the salesguy and make a commission. An audiophile doesn't do audio for a living, has too much money on their hands, and is now masturbating to the newly announced $3100 replacement for their $800 electron-spin directionally optimized bullshit cables.
The immaturity of people on this site never ceases to amaze me. My post was making a very valid point that is topical to the discussion.
It has nothing to do with the line in jack. It has to do with the desire to eliminate all jacks except USB/FireWire. Simplifies manufacturing and design costs, maybe? But, lots have disappeared; parallel, serial, keyboard, etc. All replaced with one do-everything digital jack. As others have pointed out, an audio/USB is a $10 purchase and up, depending on your needs.
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