The State of iPad Satisfaction

harrymcc writes "We know that the iPad is selling like hotcakes, but how satisfied are the people who buy it? Over at Technologizer, we conducted a survey of 6,000 iPad early adopters. There are a few places where they were critical — the majority, for instance, aren't happy with Apple's App Store approval process. Overall, however, they're overwhelmingly upbeat."

Comments

3G Reception?

[AmazinglySmooth]

Other than the fact that I'm stuck with AT&T, I really like it.

Re:3G Reception?

[ScrewMaster]

Other than the fact that I'm stuck with AT&T, I really like it.

A bittersweet phenomenon. Much as I dislike Apple Computer, the iPad is a cool product, and it's unfortunate the Jobs went with AT&T. Then again, what are the options for a nationwide network provider? Verizon? Please. Sprint? I don't think so. I'm currently on T-Mobile (and I'm very happy with their services, both voice and data) but I doubt they could handle the load of millions of crazed iPad/iPhone users all crying out for their streaming this and streaming that.

Of course ... neither can AT&T.

Re:3G Reception?

[0100010001010011]

Once again, Apple didn't choose AT&T because they were the best. Back in 2006, long before the iPhone release when Apple was shopping around for a provider Cingular was the only phone company that agreed to let Apple have complete control over the phone AND agreed to upgrade their voice mail system to handle visual voice mail. AT&T bought Cingular out and honored the contract. It was a Huge gamble, but paid off. It could have easily flopped and AT&T would have been screwed out of the money they paid to upgrade their servers and such.

After the failed Abortion that was the Rockr Jobs didn't want anyone else building an "Apple" phone.

Rumors are that Sprint respectfully declined while the Verizon CEO basically a huge asshole in declining. AT&T even declined, they just managed to pick it up when the Cingular 'merger/buyout' went through.

Re:3G Reception?

[poetmatt]

I'm impressed that people don't understand the psychology of sunk cost.

Re:3G Reception?

[Eponymous Coward]

The N900 is more of an iPod or iPhone competitor than an iPad competitor, isn't it? Your comment about the iPad being unable to do half the things some other product can do reminds me of CmdrTaco's famous critique of the iPod when it first came out.

I think the iPad is well designed. Deciding what not to include in a product is often a more difficult decision than deciding what to include. Apple is very good at this and I think they have mostly nailed it with the iPad (I don't have one but my wife does). You don't like it and guess what? Thanks to Apple, the slate format is super hot right now and you will likely be able to get what you want from a different manufacturer.

Lookup the iPhone / iPad demographics some day. The people who own these things are mostly quite well off. A $500 purchase for many of these people does not make them "invested heavily".

Re:3G Reception?

[Kell Bengal]

It looked good, so I bought it. I bought it so it must be good. *rocks back and forth tearfully clutching ipad*

Re:3G Reception?

[MachDelta]

Stockholm syndrome is very specific in that it only applies to a hostage or captive individual, so unless your iPad is holding you at gunpoint it doesn't quite work here.

The term GP is searching for is Cognitive Dissonance, specifically Post-Decision Dissonance. Cognitive dissonance is the idea that one may possess two conflicting thoughts simultaneously (I love my iPad / This iPad sucks). The mental tension that builds between these two ideas eventually has to be resolved, usually by the introduction of "rationalization". In these cases the specific justification doesn't necessarily need to follow logic (I chose an iPad because it smells like a rainbow), so long as it resolves the dissonance. Its sort of like solving an equation by introducing nonsense to one side. This form of creative logic reduces the tension caused by cognitive dissonance, essentially freeing people from the regret of having made a "bad" (or questionable) decision.

Psych studies have been done on this phenomenon, where it was observed that after giving people (and monkeys, by the way) a choice between two fairly equal items their approval of the item of their choice rose, while it fell for the item they didn't choose. This happens all the time in all types of people. I have a good example myself: When hunting for a PMP (portable media player) I eventually chose a Cowon S9 over the iPod touch. When my girlfriend bought herself an iPod touch, I reacted negatively and joked that she was now part of the Apple fanclub, and asked her when her lifesized poster of her new overlord (Jobs) would arrive in the mail. I also dismissed certain advantages of the touch outright (app store = full of crap, better touch screen = not a big deal, wifi = battery leech, etc) while taking pride in the advantages of my own purchase (AMOLED screen = sexy, broad file format support = better, superior EQ = awesome, etc.). It actually took me a few weeks of using both side by side to rationalize my own purchase in a more logical way. Now i'm at the point where, while i'm not displeased with my purchase, I have seen much of the appeal with the iPod Touch. Ultimately I think i've rationalized them into two separate non-competing categories, where the Cowon S9 is the superior media device (well, it is!) but the iPod Touch has a wide variety of non-media functionality. Thus I can appreciate both items without experiencing any form of cognitive dissonance (regret) over my decision.

Re:3G Reception?

[0100010001010011]

It's easy to see how one could get confused. (Video)

After reading the Wiki: Originally Cingular Wireless LLC, a joint venture between SBC Communications and BellSouth, the company acquired the old AT&T Wireless in 2004; SBC later acquired the original AT&T and re-branded as "The New AT&T". Cingular became wholly-owned by The New AT&T in December 2006 as a result of AT&T's acquisition of BellSouth.

So Cingular (a joint venture between SBC and Bell bought AT&T Wireless), but still operated as "Cingular". SBC bought AT&T. And renamed itself "The New AT&T". Cingluar (With AT&T Wireless) was still being operated by SBC and Bell.

SBC (The New AT&T) then bought out Bell South. Meaning that the joint venture of Cingular was bought by AT&T, becoming an owned subsidiary.
They then renamed Cingular to AT&T.

And remember, Bell South and SBC were both formed when AT&T was broken up for being a monopoly.

Re:3G Reception?

[stephanruby]

It was a Huge gamble, but paid off.

It was a Huge gamble, that's just too early to say if it paid off yet. Note that AT&T is paying Apple dearly for its iPhone/iPad exclusivity. As opposed to its Android phone for instance, it's not getting a dime from Apple's app store, and yet it still had to subsidize the iPhone heavily to get the exclusive privilege of selling the iPhone.

And it's currently providing these deals at a loss for itself. The break even point is just around the corner of course, and analysts are optimistic that this deal will ultimately pay off (if current iPhone customers will remain with AT&T once their two-year contracts are up, and that's likely, but AT&T is not out of the woods just yet).

Re:3G Reception?

[hmar]

I'm equally impressed with people's general inability to grasp that we are all individuals, with our own likes, dislikes, and priorities. What is a waste of money to you is a good choice for someone else. There is nothing negative about that, it means priorities differ. I won't be buying an ipad because the other priorities in my life far outweigh it, but I don't feel that people who make owning one a priority have some sort of problem. One man's junk is another man's treasure.

Re:3G Reception?

[yeshuawatso]

Yes, but Cingular was already owned by AT&T, they just didn't adopt the AT&T name until they bought AT&T Wireless.

Remember the chain of purchases:

AT&T forced to breakup-->Southwestern Bell turns SBC for no reason, tells all employees that the SBC doesn't mean Southwestern Bell Corp, but just random acronyms with no meaning. Buys Pacbell, Ameritech, Nevada Bell, and SNET; starts records cleanup and reorganizing-->Combines its wireless services, Southwestern Bell Wireless, with BellSouth Wireless and renames it Cingular.-->Cingular buys AT&T Wireless but decides to keep using Cingular brand-->SBC acquires the remains of AT&T and adopts the AT&T name for land line services-->AT&T buys Bellsouth and changes the Cingular brand into AT&T and uses AT&T as the name for all telecommunication services.[source: I was an AT&T manager during the acquisitions and cleanup (SBC period), family members that still work for AT&T or retirees of AT&T]

Re:3G Reception?

[omnichad]

Thanks for the video link. That video was already on my mind before I got to your post. I keep a copy of this video on hand just to explain to people how the new AT&T came to be.

Re:3G Reception?

[yeshuawatso]

Not when you call it sunk cost. Most people have never looked into Economics. Call it by its layman's name: hooker and coke money.

Re:3G Reception?

[LanMan04]

Thanks for the substantive correction. *eye roll*

Re:3G Reception?

[Man On Pink Corner]

ipad can't do half things an N900 can.

Sober up, then post.

Re:3G Reception?

[jackspenn]

Not if you have an Android phone with the wifi tether app. http://code.google.com/p/android-wifi-tether/

Re:3G Reception?

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

It looked good, so I bought it. I bought it so it must be good. *rocks back and forth tearfully clutching ipad*

I wonder how many Linux users feel that way.

"This was a bitch to set up! But... it has more power for setting things up!"

Re:3G Reception?

[illumin8]

Ultimately I think i've rationalized them into two separate non-competing categories, where the Cowon S9 is the superior media device (well, it is!)

You just keep telling yourself that enough times and you'll believe it! Actually you make a very good point. We all do this: "I purchased brand X car so it must be the best available on the market." In any case, it takes a cold, logical person to separate all emotion from purchasing decisions.

Re:3G Reception?

[david_thornley]

There is, of course, another reason why people tend to like what they bought: they originally thought they would, and people are frequently correct about what they want. There's a selection bias going on, since the only people surveyed are those who originally thought it worth $500 and up to get an iPad. My opinion is not represented, because I didn't think an iPad worth that to me.

BTW, if she's not your ex-girlfriend after insulting her over her choice of PMP, she's worth keeping. Treat her better.

Re:3G Reception?

[Lars T.]

You sound like a really bad case of Helsinki Syndrome.

Re:3G Reception?

[gutnor]

Seems weird to me that AT&T would only reach break even point now, while Apple is raking billion with the iPhone. I didn't picture them as such a good hearted company that they would bleed money for 4 years to please iPhone customers, and not even badmouth Apple a little bit. Well stranger thing have happened.

In any case, with the exception of the Visual VoiceMail, the rest of the changes benefit directly to Android phone, and would have been required to support the new generations of smartphone, so even if the iPhone deal only break even, that will be pure benefit in the Android lines of phone.

Re:3G Reception?

[wfolta]

Have you ever tried using your newfangled idevice in real life? I see some morons holding it in one hand and trying to type with the other and it gets pretty hilarious from them.

Have you ever tried watching a standard two hour movie while holding it in your one hand all the time?

I'll let you in on the dirty secret of the iPad: some of us have trained ourselves -- through years of practice -- to sit. That allows us to use two hands, or rest it on our knee, or lap, or the arm of the couch, or a table, or to use it in a wide variety of comfortable, natural postures that are impossible with a keyboard-driven device.

Have you ever tried transferring your music/movie collection to it?

Yes, yes I have. Slower than I'd like, but it works great.

Have you ever tried using it without a data plan?

Yes. I got the 3G and didn't have a data plan for the first month+. At work, I had to walk about 100 feet to where I could pick up the public WiFi. At home, I have good coverage (802.11n). There are hotspots all over the place, and many things, like photos, documents, calendars, do not require a full-time internet connection. But I digress. What's your point again?

Have you ever tried using it browsing flash sites?

I've never found a site that was Flash-only that I found useful.

Have you ever tried installing anything not available on apple site?

Have you ever tried to get root access?Have you ever tried to get root access?

Because... why? I've got a laptop at home, where I edit videos, compile Open Source software, do statistical analysis, etc. The iPad's something different.

Yes, it's shiny, but that's about it, no mater how you may want to believe (and convince others) with vague "have you ever used it?" line.

And for all the faults of N900, you can all of above.

Wow, you managed to avoid answering the question, though I assume from the ignorance of your counter-questions that the answer is "No". In terms of the N900, if you're comparing a postcard-sized screen and a miniscule battery life to an iPad, well... You've managed to drive the nail in your own coffin, then have it slammed into the ground with a pile driver, then had 50 tons of concrete dumped on it. Rather redundant, but amusing.

Re:3G Reception?

[leptons]

How many of the iPad owners researched the device before they bought it? Do you think that they all went over the specs and decided they had a purpose for the device that another device could not fill? I think the vast majority of these purchases were done out of fandboyism, and a desire to be 'cool', rather than the device fitting a specific need for anyone. The reality distortion field is quite good at being able to cancel out buyer's remorse.

Re:3G Reception?

[somersault]

Same thing with many religions.

Re:3G Reception?

[cusco]

"Most people have never looked into Economics."

And a lot of us who did laughed in befuddled amusement and turned away, chuckling at a religion that made Scientology look rational in comparison . . .

Re:3G Reception?

[stephanruby]

Seems weird to me that AT&T would only reach break even point now, while Apple is raking billion with the iPhone.

It's a business investment. As long as the eventual pay off justifies it, businesses are used to taking decisions that involve high initial capital investments.

I didn't picture them as such a good hearted company that they would bleed money for 4 years to please iPhone customers, and not even badmouth Apple a little bit. Well stranger thing have happened.

It's a decision made by analysts, not by emotions (I would think). Besides, a company is like a shark. It must keep on moving to stay alive. The alternative to do nothing can be just as damaging to a company (and its CEO) as the act of gambling itself.

Re:3G Reception?

[somersault]

That allows us to use two hands, or rest it on our knee, or lap, or the arm of the couch, or a table, or to use it in a wide variety of comfortable, natural postures that are impossible with a keyboard-driven device.

How is having to prop it up by hand/look straight down any more natural than the screen supporting itself at a decent angle (still not as good as using a monitor of course) on your lap? I do like the tablet concept, but there are few situations where it truly has an advantage over a netbook, and many situations where it can't comfortably compete.

My flatmate has been watching TV on his iPad and he tends to lay it flat on the sofa or a table and peer down into it.. doesn't seem any more "natural" to me. Even less natural is that we have 42" TV and surround sound system in the room that he could connect the thing up to, but it seems that he's trying to justify his purchase by watching stuff in the kitchen and his bedroom instead..

It's weird when he does stuff like complain about lack of features and restrictions in what apps can do (because of OS limitations) one minute, and then say how he "loves" his iPad the next. If he had a Windows or Linux based device he would have apps with those features. If he'd got a Dell Mini 10 he'd have a nice widescreen device including a keyboard and the same 10 hour battery life, but without all the restrictions.

Re:3G Reception?

[somersault]

You don't like it and guess what? Thanks to Apple, the slate format is super hot right now and you will likely be able to get what you want from a different manufacturer.

This is what I've thought about the iPhone. I'll never buy one (unless they open up the OS and include a physical keyboard), but I've thought for years that phone UIs suck. We've had cool touchscreen smartphone/PDAs for years, but it's only since the iPhone came out that they became pleasant to use.

Now tablets are actually being given a real go at last too (though it remains to be seen whether it's all just a fad) :)

I think many people get iPhones on a contract/credit, they're not that well off. Some of the poorest people I've known over the last few years have had fancy phones on a contract.

Re:3G Reception?

[quenda]

mod parent troll - I sounded serious! :-)
Its the popular wisdom amongst an element of slashdot that Apple customers are sheep, but I know Apple fans who are not otherwise into any sort of brand display or conspicuous consumption. We have to admit that some loyalty comes from Apple making good products, even if I personally cannot stant the restrictions on some of them.

Re:3G Reception?

[Eponymous Coward]

The numbers are out there and they are surprising.

I couldn't find recent numbers but this is from two years ago and back then more then 40% of iPhone owners had income > $100,000. Since then, the big growth has been with people earning between $25k and $75k, but the average income of an iPhone owner is still very high. The 50th percentile number is something like $68,000.

I think an iPhone is actually not that extravagant. You can buy the older model for less than $100 and get the bottom tier of service for something like $70 / month. Not cheap, but within reach for a lot of people (less than $3 per day).

Re:3G Reception?

[genik76]

Just admit it, deep down you regret not getting an iPod Touch.

Re:3G Reception?

[mdwh2]

Have you used every phone, tablet, netbook, PMP etc on the market?

Re:3G Reception?

[poetmatt]

How do people fail to understand that we are individuals? The average slashdotter, humorously contrary to supposed stereotype, does not exclusively live in their basement - most know that there is more than 1 person or opinion in the world. I find it completely unlikely that anyone fails to understand that, even if they are incredibly closeminded.

Meanwhile, any product that you decide to buy without logic and strictly based off of emotion shows that you didn't make a logical decision. When the result sucks? well, gee, whose fault is that? Not everyone can just turn off their emotions when making purchasing decisions, but it would be to everyone's benefit to do so.

Sales concepts - peer pressure sales such as what apple does and hard sales such as car sales rely on the idiocy - aka people's lack of cognition about their emotions - to convince someone that a piece of shit is a polished piece of gold, and to defend it, no less.

Re:3G Reception?

[Dog-Cow]

You obviously aren't in a stable relationship if you do not understand that you can love something or someone, but not love everything about them.

Re:3G Reception?

[somersault]

Correct on the relationship front. I have definitely loved at least one person despite having problems with how they treated me. I put up with it for a couple of years before ending up a depressed angry mess. Later they said that they never actually loved me (despite moving to the UK just to be with me for 5 months), which I had suspected all along due to the way they were acting about certain things. Perhaps that was just a self fulfilling prophecy though. They've also since admitted that they were depressed (even said it was "obvious") despite denying it at the time.. we both were depressed and this led to agitation and arguments.

Considering he's only known the iPad for a couple of weeks though, isn't it a bit early to proclaim his love?

Flawed survey

[BearRanger]

Why would most end users care about the App Store approval process? If you're surveying developers say that you're surveying developers. Oh wait, is it just that the Slashdot summary is wrong? Thought so.

Don't survey a subset of the users and then generalize that to all users. It's inherently unfair.

(no, I don't have an iPad and probably never will)

Re:Flawed survey

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, as an end-user, I LIKE the App Store and appreciate Apple's filtering process.

Re:Flawed survey

[ScrewMaster]

Don't survey a subset of the users and then generalize that to all users. It's inherently unfair

Not at all. Unless you are surveying ALL users of a product, then by definition you are surveying a subset and generalizing to the entire population. The trick is picking a representative subset.

The problem is one of methodology. Do you pick a subset with specific, known characteristics, and then generalize that? If so, you've introduced bias.

Re:Flawed survey

[Anonymous Coward]

Because it limits what apps an end user might want to use. For example, an ad blocking plugin for safari. It exists for jailbroken ipads/iphones and should exist in the app store but Apple will never allow it, thus it's a problem with the approval process for end users.

Re:Flawed survey

[byuu]

as an end-user, I LIKE the App Store and appreciate Apple's filtering process

And if Apple were to allow you to install apps from other sources, what harm would that cause you? Just continue only going to the Apple Store.

And to the grandparent, end users would care about the approval process because it directly affects what applications they can receive. For instance, if I wanted Flash, or tethering, or an emulator, I would be gravely concerned with said policy.

Re:Flawed survey

[BlueBoxSW.com]

Summary FAIL.

Re:Flawed survey

[BasilBrush]

And if Apple were to allow you to install apps from other sources, what harm would that cause you? Just continue only going to the Apple Store.

Right now he can install 100% of iP* apps. Under your scenario, a percentage of the apps that would otherwise be available to him through Apple's App Store would be distributed from other stores, and thus be out of bounds.

If he gave in to temptation to relax his standards at at any time, in order to run any of these non-app store apps, he's become vulnerable to phishing and trojans.

Most iP* users are like the GP. They like the fact that there is a safe, one-stop shop for all apps. Most of the people clamouring for multiple stores are committed free-software types from slashdot who wouldn't buy an iP* anyway.

Re:Flawed survey

[matunos]

Actually, if you look at the article, you'd see that the Slashdot summary correctly reflects what the article says:

In only one major area did unhappy campers dominate: A majority aren’t pleased with Apple’s App Store approval process.

I haven't developed any iPad/iPhone apps, or know anyone who has, but I'm not pleased with their approval process because I actually read and am aware of some of the gaffes they've made with it (Mark Fiore's app, Ulysses Seen, Tom Bouden's version of The Importance of Being Earnest, etc.).

Re:Flawed survey

[nine-times]

I'm not a developer, and I don't know what the "App Store approval process" is like. However, I'm not happy that an "App Store approval process" is required to get an application installed on my iPad.

Re:Flawed survey

[byuu]

Under your scenario, a percentage of the apps that would otherwise be available to him through Apple's App Store would be distributed from other stores, and thus be out of bounds.

I suppose there is a possibility that some apps would not be distributed this way; but as a developer, it would make no sense to ignore the biggest potential market for moving my applications.

Perhaps we could look to the Android market to see if there are any major applications that are not available at all in the official store ...

Most of the people clamouring for multiple stores are committed free-software types from slashdot who wouldn't buy an iP* anyway.

I can't speak for others, but I bought a Mac Mini recently, I've even ported some software to it. I was planning to buy the iPad until I learned of this restriction.

Re:Flawed survey

[Missing.Matter]

What about it do you like? Despite an approval process, the app store is saturated with buggy, poorly designed, applications. Not to mention the spammers, who somehow get hundreds of cookie cutter apps approved daily. The only the the app store approval process does is make sure apps don't interfere with Apple's business interests. It has nothing to do with quality of apps.

Re:Flawed survey

[HermMunster]

When you earn a bad rating in one area you tend to see that carried into others, such as product overall approval. So, the approval process is important to almost everyone affected from the developer to the end-user.

The results of the survey were clarified by the other data such as (most were pre-existing Apple customers, most had Macs or iPhones, most purchased the iPad near launch day, most participants were from the US). This certainly overshadowed the approval ratings.

Due to the fact that, most were early adopters owning Apple products and using it in conjunction with another Apple product, it demonstrates why certain aspects didn't hit home with them, such as the absence of flash, the walled garden, etc).

Re:Flawed survey

[Darkman, Walkin Dude]

No, from the article:

In only one major area did unhappy campers dominate: A majority aren’t pleased with Apple’s App Store approval process.

If a majority are unhappy with the approval process, then the majority are app developers, with a vested interest in seeing the ipad succeed. This survey is meaningless. Lets check back in twelve months after the marketing spin has worn off and see how people in general are feeling then. For myself, I can't wait for full colour, full motion e-ink in a DRM free package. That will be sweet, and if apple rolls it out, more power to them.

Re:Flawed survey

[TheKidWho]

Nope, did you notice how they asked the question?

Apple permits distribution of iPad applications only in its App Store, and rejects applications for a variety of reasons. What is your opinion of this approach?

~80% were "It's not a problem at al"" or "It's a minor problem" split evenly.
Only 11% thought it was a major problem, ~4% thought it was unacceptable.

Re:Flawed survey

[bennomatic]

Beyond any problems with the /. summary methodology, I'd put forth that a significant number of early adopters for this product are indeed developers or at least wannabe developers. It'll be interesting to see how sales develop or taper after the crowd that sees the iPad as the future and buys one to get ahead of the development game all have one.

I'll bet if you do the same survey in 12 months, the weight of that app approval process metric drops.

Re:Flawed survey

[yeshuawatso]

Perhaps we could look to the Android market to see if there are any major applications that are not available at all in the official store ...

Swype is one I can name off the top of my head.

Re:Flawed survey

[Darkman, Walkin Dude]

The only people you could be guaranteed weren't developers were those for whom it was no problem at all, and even then probably only a percentage of that. Loaded poll! They even admit it in the article...

Re:Flawed survey

[MightyYar]

Is Swype like ShapeWriter?

Re:Flawed survey

[Draek]

Most iP* users are like the GP. They like the fact that there is a safe, one-stop shop for all apps.

Proof? considering TFA states the exact opposite and all.

Re:Flawed survey

[toooskies]

Because I want to use the software that those developers would write.

I want Google Voice.

I want apps that aren't judged by content. Besides a web browser, of course.

I want apps that legitimately work but might conflict with Apple's business interests.

I want things built on third-party libraries, so each developer doesn't have to re-invent the wheel.

I want to trust companies other than Apple.

I want control over what my property can and can't do, and I don't want to have to do something questionably legal (jailbreaking) to do it.

Re:Flawed survey

[jellomizer]

Well I think it is a case there is a lot of people unhappy about things that Steve Jobs is just being a dick about. Such as flash support, and the ability to get it. Also there are a lot of apps that you can get on jail broken devices that actually bring the system to the next level.

People want these devices to do things their PC can however Apple is often telling them No.

Re:Flawed survey

[mean pun]

I'm not a developer, and I don't know what the "App Store approval process" is like. However, I'm not happy that an "App Store approval process" is required to get an application installed on my iPad.

That's a pretty uninformed opinion then. Isn't it more rational to reserve your approval and disapproval to things you know more about?

Re:Flawed survey

[stewbacca]

A majority see the way Apple manages the App Store as a problem: Forty-one percent think it’s a minor issue, twelve percent think it’s a major one, and four percent say it’s unacceptable. Forty-three percent say it isn’t a problem at all.

I don't see that as a majority of unhappy campers. 41% think it is a "minor" issue. Minor issues don't make me unhappy. 12% major and 4% unacceptable totals a whopping 16% vs. 43% "not-a-problem-at-all".

Re:Flawed survey

[stewbacca]

The question was worded in a biased way as well. It sets the user up to think, 'wow, that's pretty bad'. Without that bias, many users would not be aware of criticism and policies of the App store.

Re:Flawed survey

[Deosyne]

Very much so. Some people prefer one or the other. I like the regular keyboard better, especially since neither of those line-based keyboards have a voice button and I use that all of the time.

Re:Flawed survey

[Deosyne]

The real problem that I have with it is that they actively block alternative means of installing applications, making their store an all-on-nothing affair. You either use the apps that Apple tells you that you should be using or you don't use them. If I have to utilize a technical solution to fix a policy problem then the product is inherently flawed. If I feel like using Flash to slow my device to a crawl and kill my battery (which I can speak to being bullshit arguments firsthand having used Flash on my Droid for a while now) then I'm going to kick my device's ass playing Flash games. THAT'S magical.

That said, Android has the opposite issue with the uncontrolled state of the Market actively dissuading developers and users, but given the choice I'll go with openness without question. I would prefer that Google put more restrictions on the official Market in order to provide more incentive to developers and users to adopt Android while still allowing alternative software repositories to exist. If someone wants to release an Android application that either violates Market terms, such as a hardcore pornography app, or that only runs in unsupported configurations, like rooted devices, then they are still perfectly capable of doing so and it really isn't a big deal for people to install those apps.

Re:Flawed survey

[geekoid]

Why not both?

Give them an option in the settings that let the user decide if they want their phone to install non App store apps.

.

Re:Flawed survey

[nine-times]

Well, I know there are applications that I want that have been rejected (e.g. Google Voice). I know that the application was built and Google wanted to distribute it for free, and Apple prevented that.

It's not uninformed because my point is that I don't *care* what the actual process is like. It's enough of a problem that there is a process.

Re:Flawed survey

[shutdown -p now]

As soon as you let average users bypass the Apple store ...

You can bypass the app store today, by jailbreaking. The only thing being asked of Apple is to make the latter an officially supported (even if warranty-voiding) operation, just as it is on Android. It doesn't have to be easier to do than today in terms of effort, so as to deter casual users; just make it available somehow.

Re:Flawed survey

[wfolta]

I totally agree that end users don't care about the process, and let's be honest: how exactly will they ever be able to tell if they're even affected or not. (Other than pr0n-lovers, of course.) If you read the survey, it turns out that 83% of the respondents said that the App Approval Process was not an issue or was only a minor issue. Which is reasonable, if perhaps 10-15% of purchasers are either developers or software anarchists.

The headline is extremely misleading.

Re:Flawed survey

[GumphMaster]

"Six thousand owners of Apple's tablet", all early purchasers, will probably include a good slab of developers scrambling to develop for the next fad. These people will have an opinion on the app store approval process. Of those that are not developers some will have phoned the suppliers of their favourite application asking when the iPad version would be out to be told, "It is subject to the whim of Apple as to whether or when the app will be approved.", or "Paying the 30% Apple tax makes an iPad version not commercially viable for us." They might then develop an opinion about the app store policies.

If you were going to pick a flaw in the survey technique you'd look at self-selection biases in the respondents (extremely happy/unhappy people are more vocal perhaps?), bias in the avenues used to find survey recipients (selecting for geeks perhaps?), or demographics of the early adopter versus the mass consumer. Attacking valid statistical technique (sampling) itself is not going to get you far.

Re:Flawed survey

[Lars T.]

Most iP* users are like the GP. They like the fact that there is a safe, one-stop shop for all apps.

Proof? considering TFA states the exact opposite and all.

Considering TFA discusses the results of an online survey done by the source of TFA, there is a certain chance it may not be fully representative in all aspects.

Re:Flawed survey

[Lars T.]

Because it limits what apps an end user might want to use. For example, an ad blocking plugin for safari. It exists for jailbroken ipads/iphones and should exist in the app store but Apple will never allow it, thus it's a problem with the approval process for end users.

Bullshit. As people like to point out, all the browsers on the app store are just Safari in disguise - and yet several of them have add blockers. IOW you are wrong.

Re:Flawed survey

[Thinboy00]

Some evidence is better than no evidence at all.

Re:Flawed survey

[jo42]

Right now he can install 100% of iP* apps.

This is wrong. The iPad will not run iOS 4.0-only apps at this point in space/time.

Re:Flawed survey

[ignavus]

Don't survey a subset of the users and then generalize that to all users. It's inherently unfair.

Apparently you missed the email telling everyone that the science of statistics had been invented.

Re:Flawed survey

[matunos]

Now you're just parsing words to support your interpretation. A majority of respondents had a problem with the App Store policies, whether major, minor or unacceptable.

You suggested that most end users don't care about App Store policies (because we don't care what apps we have access to?). Whether "minor issue" is equivalent to "unhappy" is debatable; but it certainly doesn't mean "don't care".

Re:Flawed survey

[sjames]

Why WOULDN'T an end user care about the approval process? Perhaps they want porn or just don't like that someone besides them is saying what they can and cannot run?

It is technically accurate that a majority had some problem with the approval process, but most of those said it was a minor problem. It looks like the breakdown is 42% say no problem, 41% say minor problem, 11% say major problem, 3-4% say it's unacceptable and the rest offered no opinion.

Re:Flawed survey

[stewbacca]

No, I'm parsing words to support logic.

Yes, a majority of the respondents had a "problem", but that's not what the article or the summary says. It says something along the lines that the majority of customers are "unhappy campers". Finding minor problems with a policy does not fit in the "pissed off" category.

Besides, the survey is using a simple Likert-scale to gather quantifiable metrics. The top two (none at all, and minor) or more closely related for discussion purposes than the bottom two are.

Re:Flawed survey

[BasilBrush]

Proof? considering TFA states the exact opposite and all.

It's not a court of law or a maths class. I don't need proof. I'm just giving my opinion on an internet forum.

As to the question in the survey in the article, it's a leading question, both in terms of the text of the question, and the options for the answer.

Excluding "Don't know", the answers range from "It's not a problem at all" to "It's unacceptable". With three of the 4 answers being negative towards apple, and just one being neutral. There is not a single answer that is positive. All of them include the word "problem". Where's the option for "It's an advantage" or "I like it"? There isn't one. The questioner expects a negative response and suggests it to the answerer with the range of answers. The suggestion is "This is a bad thing, but how significant is it's badness."

The question reads "Apple permits distribution of iPad applications only in it's App Store, and rejects applications for a variety of reasons. What is your opinion of this approach?" The wording is first of all aimed towards developers, and secondly worded in terms of restrictions. A biased question in the other direction might be: "Apple makes sure all applications are sold through it's App Store. Apps must be approved to included. What do you think of this approach?"

So if the poll was:

Apple makes sure all applications are sold through it's App Store. What do you think of this approach?
a) I like it.
b) I don't care.
c) I dont like it.
d) No opinion.

It would be a less biased question and set of answers AND would certainly give a different result.

Re:Flawed survey

[BasilBrush]

I didn't mean to say that all iP* devices could run all applications written for any other iP* device. Most will run but there are exceptions, and not just the one you mention.

No, what I meant was that right now if he has an iPad he can run all iPad apps.
If he has an iPhone 4, he can run all iPhone 4 apps. etc.

Re:Flawed survey

[Lars T.]

Some evidence is better than no evidence at all.

Sure - and the evidence is that over 40% think that there is no problem, and that a further 40% + think that it's a minor problem. And a further few percent have no opinion. IOW it's not a big deal for the vast majority of those surveyed.

Re:Flawed survey

[matunos]

Yes, a majority of the respondents had a "problem", but that's not what the article or the summary says. It says something along the lines that the majority of customers are "unhappy campers". Finding minor problems with a policy does not fit in the "pissed off" category.

No, the article says (again):

In only one major area did unhappy campers dominate: A majority aren’t pleased with Apple’s App Store approval process.

The summary says:

In only one major area did unhappy campers dominate: A majority aren’t pleased with Apple’s App Store approval process.

(Note: you don't have to rely on "something along the lines" when the actual text of the summary is readily available to you.)

I'm willing to concede that the label "unhappy campers" is a bit much here. But the operative part of that quote is the latter part: "A majority aren’t pleased with Apple’s App Store approval process." At any rate, nowhere in either the article or the summary does it say that a majority of customers are "unhappy campers", the summary specifically mentions that it's just in one area. Whether that area is "major" or not is a subjective call, and doesn't appear to be something asked in the survey.

Besides, the survey is using a simple Likert-scale to gather quantifiable metrics. The top two (none at all, and minor) or more closely related for discussion purposes than the bottom two are.

It's your conjecture that "minor" is closer to "none at all" than to "major". I think that's debatable, and is pretty poor support that the summary was flat-out wrong, as you originally stated.

Re:Flawed survey

[stewbacca]

Finding a minor flaw in something cannot, by rational logic, be categorized in the same breath as somebody being "not pleased" with it. Of all the things I own that are quite pleasing, all of them have minor flaws, for example.

Again, if the summary said "the majority of users found a problem" with the App story, then yes, that would be a factual statement, with varying levels of "problems". But it doesn't say that. It says the majority of people are "unhappy campers" and that "a majority aren't pleased". That is not a logical conclusion.

I'm not trying to defend Apple iStuff here at all. I'm merely pointing out the biased logic presented in the summary and in the article.

Re:Flawed survey

[matunos]

Of all the things I own that are quite pleasing, all of them have minor flaws

There are a couple of logical problems with this counter example of yours.

First of all, just because everything that is pleasing to you has a minor flaw does not mean that everything with a minor flaw is pleasing (fallacy of the undistributed middle, I believe).

Granted, that at the same time, not everything that has a minor flaw is "not pleasing". However, that leads me to your second fallacy. You are conflating being pleased with the device overall with being pleased with the App Store approval policy. The article clearly states that the iPad has high approval ratings overall, and restates this specifically in the part dealing with the App Store policy.

Again, you can make a case that "it's a minor problem" does not necessarily equate to unhappiness. However, it's a case that relies on conjecture, because their survey question didn't ask how happy people were. We're not going to get any further than an argument over semantics.

To simply state that the article was wrong is not fair. They were providing what I think is a reasonable (but debatable) interpretation of the survey results. They used inexact language with which you (and apparently BearRanger) disagree. Okay, you're entitled to disagree.

However, the original respondent said the Slashdot summary is wrong. Assuming we can treat "happy with" as equivalent to "pleased with", the Slashdot summary accurately reflects what the authors of the article state.

More importantly, the original respondent did not question if users were pleased or happy with the App Store policies, he (or she) questioned whether non-developer users care. Technically we can't tell from the survey, because they don't break down those numbers between developers and non-developers, but if we assume that developers made up a small percentage of respondents (fair assumption? I don't know), then it would appear he was incorrect- a majority of users care enough to consider it at least a minor problem.

Re:Flawed survey

[stewbacca]

Again, you can make a case that "it's a minor problem" does not necessarily equate to unhappiness.

I think I'll just leave it at this.

Re:Flawed survey

[bingoUV]

Wow!

If I imprison you and give you 50 grams of bread a day - you would be happy that you can eat 100% of all the food in your enclosure. Instead, if you were at home - there would be pests like family, friends etc. who would eat a non-zero percentage of your food (assuming there is a non-zero number of family and friends). You would totally ignore the fact that there would be much more than 50 grams of food available if I had not imprisoned you in the first place. Even when free, you can eat 50 grams of bread whenever you want. But this 50 grams is a tiny percentage of your total food availability. Would you worry about being able to eat only a tiny percentage of total food in the enclosure, or being able to eat hundreds of grams of various kinds of food a day?

How is 100% a good thing if it is 100% of a restricted choice? That 100% is less than 50% of a larger choice?

Re:Flawed survey

[BasilBrush]

So in this analogy, you make 50g of bread the analog for 225,000 apps available for the app store. That has to be the worst analogy ever.
A quantity of bread that can be consumed in a single bite, the suggested analog for more apps than you could ever use.
The blandest foodstuff, in a starvation quantity, the suggested analog for the rich variety of amazing apps available in the app store.

Even if your analogy works so far, there's nothing in it to represent the fact the the person would have numerically less apps available under the suggested scenario, not more. Having other app stores around would do nothing to increase the number of apps on iTunes App Store. It would only decrease it.

Try again my friend.

Re:Flawed survey

[bingoUV]

So in this analogy, you make 50g of bread the analog for 225,000 apps available for the app store.

No. It just shows how idiotic it is to mention 100% (of an arbitrarily smaller set) as a better thing than less than 100% (of an arbitrarily larger set).

The blandest foodstuff, in a starvation quantity, the suggested analog for the rich variety of amazing apps available in the app store

No. Just the fact that nothing is stopping you from consuming 50 grams of bread even when you are not imprisoned. Similarly, nothing is stopping you from getting these "rich variety of amazing apps" even when app store is not the only store for apps. Highlights the idiocy of the 100% argument a bit more.

Your (100% of smaller set) is a subset of (less than 100% of a larger set). Yet you tout the percentage : 100 > less than 100. That really got me to admire you a lot.

numerically less apps

Absolutely irrelevant. In this context, a greater variety of apps is a meaningful metric.

Just for example -
Android 2.0 did not support bluetooth file transfer. But apps were available to make it possible.
Iphone 3 did not support multi-tasking / copy-paste. Were apps available to make it possible?

Re:Flawed survey

[BasilBrush]

Your (100% of smaller set) is a subset of (less than 100% of a larger set). Yet you tout the percentage : 100 > less than 100. That really got me to admire you a lot.

I can imagine it did. You don't seem to be too good at working out the logic.

1) The scenario was that the OP would continue to only buy from the iTunes App Store.
2) Having competing app stores would reduce the number of apps available at the iTunes App Store, as some small percentage of developers would chose to only sell from some other store.
3) Ergo, the OP would have LESS apps to chose from, not more.

I feel sorry for you that you are too stupid to work this out for yourself. Even having had it explained to you previously.

Re:Flawed survey

[bingoUV]

1) The scenario was that the OP would continue to only buy from the iTunes App Store.

I don't see any such necessity.

2) Having competing app stores would reduce the number of apps available at the iTunes App Store, as some small percentage of developers would chose to only sell from some other store.

Citation needed. Though the apps that got rejected from Apple's app store will very likely be available from the alternate app stores.

3) Ergo, the OP would have LESS apps to chose from, not more.

Obviously if someone chooses to install only apps whose name's MD5 sum is b2b75221f6d2344125e6f5aea35ca79b, obviously he would have LESS apps to choose from. I can't be expected to consider such stupid use cases, can I? As expected, you ignored the example I gave of whole classes of applications that would be available under the alternate app stores. And you want to concentrate on the meaningless metric of number of apps to choose from.

I feel sorry for you that you are too stupid to work this out for yourself. Even having had it explained to you previously.

You deserve the aforementioned sorrow more than me.

Personally

[COMON$]

I am waiting for the android based tablets. We have already seen one with the dell streak and from what I hear they are going to release a series:

http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/dell-mini-5-we-have-it/

Dell tends to make pretty good devices (contrary to the article yesterday), that are very usefull and well designed. So hopefully this will start a good series of android style tablets. This probably wont hurt the apple market but at least it will deliver a useful tablet to those of us who don't want to fight the app store and want some more options.

Re:Personally

[blind biker]

I am waiting for the android based tablets.

Wait no more.

Re:Personally

[COMON$]

Ya the archos is definitely cool but why spend $200 on a video player when I can spend a little more for a mini5 :)

Re:Personally

[nametaken]

Likewise waiting on more android offerings, though I was surprised to see nearly 20% of the people surveyed have linux machines.

Re:Personally

[cacba]

Any operating system will do, Im just hoping pixel qi isnt vaporware.

Re:Personally

[DJCouchyCouch]

I am waiting for the good android based tablets.

There, fixed that for you.

Re:Personally

[Lumpy]

That tablet is utter crap. I used one for 4 weeks and sent it back for a full refund. I then tried several others.... they all suck right now.

Yes you still need to wait. What is available is junk right now.

Re:Personally

[Wiarumas]

I'll wait for Asus to make one. Over the last 5 years or so they've come to be my favorite computer manufacturer.

Re:Personally

[jedidiah]

I can buy an Archos at Amazon.

Where can I get the Mini 5?

My Archos has 500G of storage and can play much of what an iPad can't.

Re:Personally

[ducomputergeek]

Funny, because we replaced all our Dell laptops with MacBook Pros over the last 3 years here because the Dell's started having a number of problems after 18 - 24 months. And these were serious hardware problems like motherboards cracking. It wasn't quite the systemic problems we had with HP laptops, but that was 2 generations of PC laptops from two different manufactures both with quality control problems. And these were $1,500 Dell/HP laptops, not the super cheap $500 consumer laptops.

Since switching to the Mac's the only hardware problems across a dozen laptops we've had is folks have broken a number of power supplies at our favourite coffee shop when they fall from the tall tables onto the ceramic tile floor.

As far as the iPad goes, I've had my 3G model over a month now and I've only gone to my Mac Mini for computer stuff twice. Both times relating to MS Office Documents that iWork couldn't open. (I still use the Mac Mini as a media center attached to my TV at home). I've given up my MacBook Pro and have docking stations, one at the office and the other at home. It does exactly what I need a device to do: Email, Skype chat, web surfing, and document editing with iWork.

As far as that goes though, my iPhone had largely replaced my MacBook a year ago. The only problem was composing any emails that required a long response was impractical. With the iPad docking station, that problem is resolved since it has a full keyboard.

Re:Personally

[tlhIngan]

That tablet is utter crap. I used one for 4 weeks and sent it back for a full refund. I then tried several others.... they all suck right now.

Yes you still need to wait. What is available is junk right now.

Not to mention, you can't root it. And it's stuck at 1.6, and won't ever get 2.x. Which is a horrendous issue for Android devices - it seems there are great models (Nexus One) with full rootability and the like. Others that are bound to a carrier can have special root-proof firmware installed (Rogers did just that with a mandatory update - sure it fixed a critical bug, but it also removed the ability to root it). And always the question of whether or not your phone will officially get 2.x. Sure there's unofficial mods (provided you root your phone), but it seems there aren't that many that are "good" (rootable, futureproof, etc).

Probably my one complaint is how carriers have all seemed to conspire to collectively try to hobble Android. Couldn't Google have done an iPhone and pretty much say "This is the way we're doing it, and if you don't like it, tough!" like Apple?

Re:Personally

[Lumpy]

If the hardware makers would build a CORRECT hardware platform it would work great.

A buddy of mine is running Android-X86 on a Fujitsu tablet from 5 years ago and it works better than all of the current junk out there. $350.00 spent on an android tablet plus it's bigger than a iPad. very cool, just lacking in the battery department.

Re:Personally

[Eil]

The problem with the Archos tablet, if I recall, was that it runs a heavily modified version of Android based on an old release of Android. It uses closed-source Archos software to replace many common Android features. And it doesn't have the Android Market. And it's not as physically large as an iPad. From what I'm to understand, calling it an Android tablet is a stretch, especially if you want to compare it with an iPad, but I'm happy to be corrected by anyone who owns one.

Re:Personally

[Haxzaw]

That is not a tablet.

Re:Personally

[MonsterTrimble]

I'm waiting on an Android-based MP3 player.

Re:Personally

[HermMunster]

I am waiting for any good tablets.

There, fixed that for you.

Re:Personally

[RatherBeAnonymous]

I don't have much experience with the Mac laptops. Speaking as someone who supports macs and PC's, I'd say that the macs have as many problems as the Dells and HP's. It varies by batch, just like PC's. I had an entire lab full of eMacs wiped out by the capacitor plague, just like the PC's I bought in the same era. Mac power supply and hard drive failure rates are roughly equivalent. The Dell Latitudes we have seem to hold up pretty well. I had a fleet of early ones, Latitude CPt's as I recall, with monitor troubles, and that was due to a cable that tended to loosen up. Reseating the cable and a strip of tape fixed them. I have a fleet of Latitude D600's where about 25% have developed power connection problems after 4 to 5 years. That is fixable with a little soldering, or a replacement motherboard for about 100 bucks. I have a stack of broken Mac Mini's, mostly from hard drive failures. I have a lab full of 4 year old HP's, AMD based, that are going strong. With those I have had to replace one power supply, a cooling fan, and a DVD-RW drive due to user damage. Our iMacs, not the lamp-shade model, and Mac towers have held up well. I did have a fleet of Dell desktops with a bad batch of hard drives. 80% of those failed within 3 years. The big problem for me with Mac repair is that they are sometimes harder to get into and the replacement parts cost more.

Re:Personally

[BasilBrush]

That's patently false. First, the key to both the iPad and the Android tablets are software. The hardware from Apple won't and can't change much.

And yet the iPhone has changed its hardware to be significantly better 4 times. And each time it's been way ahead of any Android devices. The current one has a display that is far higher resolution than any Android device, has a far better camera than any Android device, and has a gyroscope, which none of the Android devices has.

There's lots of ways the iPad can and will improve in hardware over the coming years.

Apple's UI is very restrictive. The UI from Android is very flexible, customizable and open.

This is meaningless. The iPhone has 3 or 4 recommended patterns for apps to follow if they are to work in a way the user will feel familiar with from using the standard apps. But a developer can make a UI of any description. Anything that can be imagined. And of course many games for example do exactly that.

The iPad technically, from a software OS/UI approach can't withstand the onslaught of years of tablet development.

What did you mean by that?

Re:Personally

[norminator]

What you say is true, but the problems of the Archos tablet aren't carrier related... It's not manufactured by/for a carrier and doesn't have built-in 3G hardware. Problems with Android phones are the carriers' faults. Problems with a non-3G tablet device are the manufacturer's fault.

Re:Personally

[blind biker]

That tablet is utter crap. I used one for 4 weeks and sent it back for a full refund. I then tried several others.... they all suck right now.

Yes you still need to wait. What is available is junk right now.

And this was modded as insightful? It contains no substantiating information, no reasoning, no data of any kind. Why is the device "utter crap"? Why did he/she send it back after 4 weeks? Which "several others" did he/she use? Unlikely that it was the same one - any reasonable user would try a device, and if he/she feels like sending it back for a refund, they would not purchase it again. So which model is he/she talking about? And if "they all suck right now" (which ones?) then why did he/she not return them?

IOW, this post is pure flamebait, and it is very likely all just a big lie.

Re:Personally

[COMON$]

The Mini 5 will be available in the us in late July last time I checked. There will be a couple options available but I have not read any reviews on the other sizes. I am just interested in the Streak 5" for a cell phone. Essentially the streak will be the Archos with a little more power, options, and GSM/CDMA support.

I thought the archos just had SD slots, that is cool that they put a 2.5" drive in there. Will have to do some more research.

Re:Personally

[Cyberax]

"And yet the iPhone has changed its hardware to be significantly better 4 times. And each time it's been way ahead of any Android devices."

Except this time.

"The current one has a display that is far higher resolution than any Android device"

About 1.5 times larger (in PPI), Nexus One has about 220PPI. Nice, but not really groundbreaking. And quite easy to catch up with. Though a desktop-size display with high PPU would be a revolution...

"has a far better camera than any Android device"

Nope. Not much (if any) better than the ones in recent HTC phones.

"and has a gyroscope, which none of the Android devices has."

Gimmick. Also it's one small solid-state device, and quite easy for other manufacturers to add.

So, there's nothing in the new iPhone what is really groundbreaking.

Re:Personally

[COMON$]

And each time it's been way ahead of any Android devices

WTF? Android has only been around for a year, how could each iteration of the iPhone beat out something that did not exist. besides that, hardware wise I am pretty sure that the Android based devices are kicking the living crap out of the iPhone. I say this in that the hardware is nearly identical (exception resolution). But there is no comparison when it comes to features, the android OS is insanely more powerful than the iPhone OS.

lets do a little comparison here:

iPhone 4

capacity 32GB

display 960x640

processor A4

DroidX (example)

capacity 32GB (expandable)

display 854 x 480

processor TI OMAP

Now resolution wise the iPhone is better but this is the first of the Droid X series. This isnt taking into consideration the dell streak, and probably another 50 phones to choose from that will come out this year.

So what do you get with the iPhone? A cool shiny device that works well in many situations and gives bragging rights. What do you get with Android phones? well pretty much unlimited possibilities, wherever the market wants to go and whatever carrier you want to use.

Re:Personally

[COMON$]

What link?

Re:Personally

[COMON$]

Wow, I was going to flame the parent but I was so impressed at the impartiality of this post...

I support both as well, and dare I say it, several Linux boxes... I hate this mentality of the fanboys shouting that one or the other is better. I have been doing system administration for 8 years and have had pretty much every kind of failure you can imagine from pretty much every brand. I just buy what works best for the situation and prepare for failure.

Re:Personally

[BasilBrush]

DroidX (example)
capacity 32GB (expandable)

The specs I'm seeing are 8GB built in + 16GB SD card as standard. That's 24GB total. You could up it to 8+32 = 40GB, but that will add to the cost. You can only put applications on the 8GB. And if an application does offer the option of saving to either disk, then that must add complexity to the UI. iPhone is easy - you don't have to worry about where to save data.

display 854 x 480

For a significantly larger screen. The resolution improvement is far better than simply looking at the screen pixel counts would suggest.

Now resolution wise the iPhone is better but this is the first of the Droid X series.

You're comparing a yet to be released Android device with a recently released iPhone. And the Android device is behind. That's my point. Sure at some future time a new DroidX will come out and it might have caught up on the screen res. But by then it'll be up against the iPhone 5, which will have progressed again in various areas - not necessarily the screen. Android will always be playing catch up.

Dont forget the superior optics in the iPhone, the second front facing camera in the iPhone, or the gyroscope in the iPhone. Don't forget the iPhone is smaller in all dimensions, and lighter too. Don't forget the iPhone has videoconferencing. Don't forget the iPhone offers tap-to-focus for both stills and video. etc.

So what do you get with the iPhone? A cool shiny device that works well in many situations and gives bragging rights. What do you get with Android phones? well pretty much unlimited possibilities, wherever the market wants to go and whatever carrier you want to use.

WIth the iPhone you get a 98% satisfaction rating and a 96% good value rating. You get better designed hardware and software. You get hardware that's more advanced than any Android phone, and a wider range of higher quality apps. You have the peace of mind that if there's a phone app that people are talking about, you're almost certainly going to be able to run it, because it'll be an iPhone app.

Re:Personally

[geekoid]

This one looks awesome:
http://wetab.mobi/en

Re:Personally

[geekoid]

hardware to be significantly better 4 times

I wouldn't call this last time "better".

Re:Personally

[geekoid]

My G1 is fully open. The idea of rooting is doesn't even apply because it is completely open.

Google did that, but they also wanted to use a unique distribution method; which did end in wide acceptance.

It's like they completely misunderstood the mobile phone market and thought every one was a single 22 year old with no previous contracts.

Re:Personally

[HermMunster]

Contrary to popular belief, little things don't mean a lot.

Re:Personally

[COMON$]

The resolution improvement is far better than simply looking at the screen pixel counts would suggest.

Right now pixel count is pretty moot, it is all about brightness. At the resolutions people are bragging about you get very little. Hell, people argue about the necessity to have any more than 790p on a 42" display...let alone a phone. I have several ex-iphone users who love the clarity and brightness of their droid phones, including the iPhone4. And yes these are mac fanboys. Tell ya what, take the droidX when it comes out next week and compare it to the iphone I got even money the display looks much better.

You're comparing a yet to be released Android device with a recently released iPhone. I am comparing the current revision of phones, just because there is 4 weeks between the revisions doesn't mean that these devices are responses to iPhones. Yes the streak is out already, was out before the iPhone, it just released in EU first. The specs are solid on these phones, thus why I chose them for comparison. They aren't flimsy devices due out in 6 months, they are coming out now.

Android will always be playing catch up.

Why just because you say so? Again, the Android os has only been out for what...18 months? Already is on the same turf, I don't hear Android users complaining about dropped calls when they hold their phone wrong.

Don't forget the iPhone has videoconferencing- Glad they caught up with the android. Oh thats right, you can only video iPhone to iPhone.tap-to-focus for both stills and video. android has been doing this for how long now?

There isn't a feature that the new iPhone has that the android OS didn't already have.

Not to mention that iPhone JUST enabled multitasking, threading, and a bunch of other things IN RESPONSE to the droid.

You get hardware that's more advanced than any Android phone --only because they released first...and even then it is debatable.

WIth the iPhone you get a 98% satisfaction rating and a 96% good value rating --because it doesnt matter to a fanboy, the sucker could be a piece of crap and they will never admit it.

You get better designed hardware and software. You get hardware that's more advanced than any Android phone, and a wider range of higher quality apps. --Umm no, see above. All the "superior" things are things the android phone has been doing for a while. Do some research fanboy.

Don't get me wrong, I like the iPhone, it dod great things for the market, just as the iPod did, and it still is a fantastic device. But it is a far cry from a superior device.

Re:Personally

[Skuld-Chan]

And yet the iPhone has changed its hardware to be significantly better 4 times. And each time it's been way ahead of any Android devices. The current one has a display that is far higher resolution than any Android device, has a far better camera than any Android device, and has a gyroscope, which none of the Android devices has.

My nexus one came out 5-6 months ago and has a 800x480 display - the iPhone 4 came out 3 weeks ago and has a 960x640 display - that's not "far higher". Plus when the Nexus One came out its display actually was 2x higher res than the top of the line iPhone 3GS.

Gyroscope is interesting, but I can probably live without it - plus I think between gps, accelerometer and the digital compass the nexus one can do many of the same things for productivity. I hated the motion controls for game, but I admit playing jenga with the orbit sensor might be fun - but that is honestly something the compass and the accelerometer can simulate.

Plus there's nothing stopping HTC/Motorola/Samsung/Sony (any number of 30+ other android manufacturers) from adding these things - they are after all off the shelf components.

Re:Personally

[MemoryDragon]

They tried with the N1 and failed, seems they have more success now they are selling it over the carriers.
But I personally think Google can only win in this game, I am one who was driven towards the N1 by the shoddy update politics of the phone makers, and I love Android but I would never ever buy another phone which does not have official google support.

Re:Personally

[mewsenews]

Probably my one complaint is how carriers have all seemed to conspire to collectively try to hobble Android. Couldn't Google have done an iPhone and pretty much say "This is the way we're doing it, and if you don't like it, tough!" like Apple?

Unfortunately not. Google developed Android but then they gave it as a gift to the Open Handset Alliance. The members of the Open Handset Alliance include manufacturers like Motorola, Samsung, HTC.

The plan was that we'd have a pile of handsets with a compatible operating system for software developers to target, and making cell phones in general a lot less crappy. Unfortunately, the old broken cell phone system of locking down phones and abandoning firmware updates has stuck around like a bad smell.

I was able to update my iPhone 3GS to iOS4 last week because Apple produces a must-have device and tells the carriers what they are going to provide to their customers. Google got in bed with manufacturers but not so much with carriers, perhaps the open handset alliance should do something about that.

Re:Personally

[yyxx]

And yet the iPhone has changed its hardware to be significantly better 4 times. And each time it's been way ahead of any Android devices. The current one has a display that is far higher resolution than any Android device, has a far better camera than any Android device, and has a gyroscope, which none of the Android devices has.

The reason iPhone 4 has a 960x640 resolution on such a small screen is not because it's good for you, it's because their software is not resolution independent so they need to use pixel doubling. It's not something to brag about really. The Motorola Droid has an 850x480 screen at 240 dpi, which is probably at the limit of what's useful.

The iPhone camera is pretty comparable to the latest Android phones, and it's far worse than the best phone cameras on the market.

Given the steep price that iPhone hardware effectively commands, they have room for some gimmicks that other companies cut out.

The iPhone is a luxury product at a premium price, nothing more.

Re:Personally

[Anonymous Coward]

For someone that admonishes others about supposedly not having their facts straight, you're spewing out some crap there too bud.

"Once 2.2 comes out in oh, about a whole month"

And how long until you are actually allowed to install it on your phone? And will your carrier even port it to run on your hardware? You don't just get to install those unless you root your phone.

"had an iPhone 3GS and now I have an Evo. Despite both being the same resolution, the image quality on the Evo is MUCH better, despite being a 33% larger screen."

In what world is 320x480 at 163ppi the same resolution as 480x800 217ppi? Oh my god, the phone that came out nearly a year later has a better screen, alert the presses.

"Also, if you read up on iPhones, you'll realize that only a small portion of their storage capacity can be used for apps - most of it is dedicated to file stores (music, movies, books, pictures)."

That is flat out incorrect. The space on the iPhone can be used for anything, it is not segmented by file type. You are wrong.

"You get more apps, but 90+% of the App Store is utter crap."

Apparently someone (you) hasn't taken a look at the Android Marketplace.

"There's very, VERY few businesses that don't make apps for both Android and iOS."

Please, share with the class. What apps are companies like Capcom and Square making for Android? Last I checked, major game developers are only targeting one platform (hint: It's not Android).

"And now you've thoroughly proven that you're nothing but a trolling Apple fanboy."

Oh please, Android fanboy. You are sucking so hard on Android's balls here that I hope you're getting a good tip. You are the mirror image of the so-called Apple fanboys, just for a different company.

Re:Personally

[Lars T.]

Ya the archos is definitely cool but why spend $200 on a video player when I can spend a little more for a mini5 :)

Don't forget you need to spend extra $ to actually play more than a few formats.

Re:Personally

[Mr Bubble]

Yeah - we're not talking about what the competition can "catch up with", we're talking about what is. When the competition catches up, Apple will have improved again.

Re:Personally

[Totenglocke]

And how long until you are actually allowed to install it on your phone? And will your carrier even port it to run on your hardware? You don't just get to install those unless you root your phone.

It's already "out". The "in a month" was referring to when the update would be on most phones. It's already on the Nexus One.

In what world is 320x480 at 163ppi the same resolution as 480x800 217ppi?

Wow, someone mixes up a resolution and you cry about it? Of course, an Apple person such as yourself is incapable of making a mistake.... The point stands that the image quality on screen on the biggest Android phones is so good that you wouldn't notice much difference (if any) between it and the iPhone 4 in actual usage. Yes, on paper the iPhone 4 has a better display - but the screen size is too small for it to be noticeable.

That is flat out incorrect. The space on the iPhone can be used for anything, it is not segmented by file type. You are wrong.

No, I'm not. As I said, I used to own an iPhone and looked into it once. It was a good 8 months ago, so don't ask me if it was mentioned somewhere in the phones settings or on a tech site, but it's limited.

Apparently someone (you) hasn't taken a look at the Android Marketplace.

Did I ever say that Android didn't have a lot of crappy apps? No, I didn't. I merely pointed out that it's a lie to claim that Apple has more "quality" apps simply because it has more apps.

What apps are companies like Capcom and Square making for Android? Last I checked, major game developers are only targeting one platform

First, I said "very few companies" - last I checked, Capcom and Square were two companies, not most. Secondly, if you're a gamer, you already have other systems meaning that your comment about "targeting only one platform" is false as well (since they also target PS3, 360, Nintendo and their handhelds as well...)

You are the mirror image of the so-called Apple fanboys, just for a different company.

Nope, I just hate lying trolls like you who worship at the Church of Apple and refuse to accept that there are other devices as good or possibly better than something Apple makes. If I was an Android fanboy, why did I buy an iPhone over an Android phone before? I didn't change to Android until after Android phones were as good / better than iPhones. I go with whatever company makes the best product. For the time being, it's NOT Apple. In a year I might ditch my Evo for an iPhone 5, I won't know until I see the phones out next year.

Re:Personally

[SvnLyrBrto]

> Couldn't Google have done an iPhone and pretty much say
> "This is the way we're doing it, and if you don't like it, tough!"
> like Apple?

To be fair; the first time around Apple also tried to do things the traditional way and partner with an established handset manufacturer, provide software for somebody else's hardware, and release t through a carrier the way phones always were. The result of said union was that motorola abortion called the ROKR. We all saw how well *that* worked out.

I can understand Google not learning from Apple's example. Douglas Adams had a saying about how even though humans are unique in being able to learn from the mistakes of others we are notoriously disinclined to do so. Why should Google be different? But what I don't get is how, considering how much potential Android has but how awful it is so far in practice, Google has failed to learn from their OWN mistake as well as Apple's; and continues to outsource the hardware to various assclowns instead of doing the whole widget properly in-house.

A true and pure Google phone, without the albatross of htc or motorola or whoever hanging around its neck and dragging it down, with ubiquitous and seamless integration to Google services (Including the ability to port my existing phone number into Google Voice.), might actually be enough to lure me away from the iPhone. All these sad half-breeds? Not a chance.

Re:Personally

[Cyberax]

This time it won't take too long. And competition now has some interesting features missing in iPhone.

Re:Personally

[BasilBrush]

About 1.5 times larger (in PPI), Nexus One has about 220PPI. Nice, but not really groundbreaking. And quite easy to catch up with.

So you admit the iPhone 4 has the better display, and the Android phone is playing catch up.

"has a far better camera than any Android device"
Nope. Not much (if any) better than the ones in recent HTC phones.

Significantly better. Here's still and vidio comparisons. Again all the Android phones are behind the quality of the IPhone 4.
http://www.gadgetsdna.com/iphone-4-vs-motorola-droid-x-vs-htc-evo-4g-vs-samsung-galaxy-s-camera-comparison/4247/
http://www.mobiletechworld.com/2010/06/18/iphone-4-vs-htc-evo-4g-hd-video-comparison/

"and has a gyroscope, which none of the Android devices has."
Gimmick. Also it's one small solid-state device, and quite easy for other manufacturers to add.

So again you admit that all the Android phones are behind, and playing catch up. You just try to downplay the significance of the feature.

So there is nothing in your post to back up your assertion that the iPhone 4 isn't "this time" ahead of all the Android phones.

So, there's nothing in the new iPhone what is really groundbreaking.

I never made any claim about it being "groundbreaking". It would be pointless, because that's very subjective. What I did say is that it's ahead of all the Android phones in terms of the hardware. And that's objectively true, whether you like it or not.

Re:Personally

[BasilBrush]

tap-to-focus for both stills and video. android has been doing this for how long now?

Android itself doesn't do either, still to this day. HTC and Motorola have their own camera apps which do do tap-to-focus stills. But that came along after the iPhone 3GS did tap-to-focus stills in Jun 2009.

As far as I can see from Google, no android phone from any manufacturer yet has tap to focus video. But happy for you to show if I missed one.

Again, Android is behind any way you want to look at this.

Re:Personally

[BasilBrush]

My nexus one came out 5-6 months ago and has a 800x480 display - the iPhone 4 came out 3 weeks ago and has a 960x640 display - that's not "far higher".

It's 60% more pixels. But the effect is even stronger than that because it's a smaller screen. iPhone 4 is 326 dpi, Nexus One is 252 dpi.

Gyroscope is interesting, but I can probably live without it - plus I think between gps, accelerometer and the digital compass the nexus one can do many of the same things for productivity. I hated the motion controls for game, but I admit playing jenga with the orbit sensor might be fun - but that is honestly something the compass and the accelerometer can simulate.

Gyroscope gives ability to sense more degrees of freedom than just compass and accelerometer. For example, put the phone on a table, the back is facing the ground, as detected by the accelerometer. The top edge is facing north, as detected by the compass. Now, move the phone left or right, forward or backward. None of these movements will register on accelerometer or compass at all. But they will on the gyroscope.

For the Jenga demo, yes, that could have been done using the compass. But then there's the question of responsiveness. The compass takes time to react, so you'll get a laggy experience when using it for games. Gyroscopes react instantly to movement.

Yes, Android manufacturers can add a gyroscope to their devices. But that's my point, they are always following. By the time they come out with their phones with gyroscopes, iPhone will be coming out with a new phone that has advanced in yet another set of directions.

Re:Personally

[BasilBrush]

The reason iPhone 4 has a 960x640 resolution on such a small screen is not because it's good for you, it's because their software is not resolution independent so they need to use pixel doubling.

No. That was true for PalmOS back in the day, but it's not true for iOS. iOS is every bit as resolution independent as Android is. All coordinates are given in points, not pixels. Font sizes are given in points, not pixels. On old iPhones one point was 1.0 pixels. On the new iPhones 1 point is 2.0 pixels.

Views can be set to use absolute co-ordinates, or to scale automatically. Images scale to whatever dimensions they are given. etc. The developer documentation encourages you to query the sizes of screens, windows, controls, not to assume certain sizes etc.

If there is a difference at all its only that Android app developers have actually had the opportunity to test on devices with different screen sizes.

It's perfectly possible for Apple to have introduced a new iPhone where there was a non integer number of pixels. The reason they didn't is because a UI scaled by a non integer number wouldn't look as good. That's true whether you are talking about iOS or Android.

It's not something to brag about really.

It's the highest res screen on a smartphone. That would be something to brag about no matter what the reasons behind it.

The iPhone camera is pretty comparable to the latest Android phones, and it's far worse than the best phone cameras on the market.

Nonsense. Here's a couple of comparisons. They both come to the same conclusion: The iPhone 4 comes out top amongst the smartphones by a good margin. It's only beaten by dedicated cameras.
http://www.gadgetsdna.com/iphone-4-vs-motorola-droid-x-vs-htc-evo-4g-vs-samsung-galaxy-s-camera-comparison/4247/
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/06/25/AR2010062504039_2.html

Given the steep price that iPhone hardware effectively commands, they have room for some gimmicks that other companies cut out.

Again, complete nonsense. The better Android smartphones (i.e. the ones that are always brought up by people trying to claim that Android has caught up with iPhone) cost about the same as the iPhone. For example the HTC Evo 4G with 8GB costs $199.99 with a 2 year contract. The iPhone 4 16GB costs $199 with a 2 year contract.

The iPhone is a luxury product at a premium price, nothing more.

The Android followers are inferior to the iPhone and cost more. The only way to get a cheap Android is to get an old or inferior model. There is neither luxury nor value in the Android world.

Re:Personally

[BasilBrush]

"That is flat out incorrect. The space on the iPhone can be used for anything, it is not segmented by file type. You are wrong."
No, I'm not. As I said, I used to own an iPhone and looked into it once. It was a good 8 months ago, so don't ask me if it was mentioned somewhere in the phones settings or on a tech site, but it's limited.

Whether you have ever owned an iPhone or not, you are utterly wrong. The iPhone flash presents itself as a single disk space, and it can store any type of data anywhere on it.

Ironically I think what's confused you is that the Android does have the problem you mention. You can only store apps on the built in drive. The MicroSD can only store media. So for Android you can't simply add the capacity of the internal and external memory together - they are used for different things.

Your claim that most companies target both iPhone and Android is also laughably uninformed.

Re:Personally

[BasilBrush]

"WIth the iPhone you get a 98% satisfaction rating and a 96% good value rating."
Would you care to provide a source for that or a source for Android ratings?

Sure. Try reading the fucking article you are commenting under. Idiot.

Re:Personally

[MuValas]

For a significantly larger screen. The resolution improvement is far better than simply looking at the screen pixel counts would suggest.

Comparing my HTC Evo to my friend's iPhone 4, I like my larger screen better - the iPhone screen is pretty, but too small for my eyes.

Dont forget the superior optics in the iPhone, the second front facing camera in the iPhone, or the gyroscope in the iPhone. Don't forget the iPhone is smaller in all dimensions, and lighter too. Don't forget the iPhone has videoconferencing. Don't forget the iPhone offers tap-to-focus for both stills and video. etc.

The HTC Evo has a higher rez camera, I'll have to compare pix to my friend's iPhone to see which one producing better. HTC Evo already had a front-facing camera before the iPhone, so iPhone is playing catchup there. Gyroscope is new, and nifty, agreed. iPhone being smaller is a negative for me, as I've mentioned. Videoconferencing is already there on Android. Tap-to-focus is arguable, but brings up an important point: iPhone users are dependent on Apple for innovation, and if Apple doesn't want it there, it won't be there. My HTC Evo has HDMI and USB - that crushes iPhone. I can treat the Evo as a USB drive, that crushes iPhone. The GUI (Sense) is better than iPhone. It had multi-tasking before iPhone.

The single only place where I envy iPhone users is the app store. Android's is adequate, but iPhone, given the closed model, is superior, and not just in number of apps. The apt comparison is an iPhone is a game console, and Android is a PC. Since I use my smartphone for non-game-console things, I'm very, very happy with the Android. Particularly with the Evo, it is simply better than iPhone 4, for me, and makes the 3GS look ancient.

Re:Personally

[HermMunster]

I stated there's a point of no return. You won't see improvements after a point. That means all competitive elements will be in the software.

The hobbled OSX that Apple has implemented has serious limits. Just look at the hacked multitasking implementation as an example. Software will be the key and it won't be the App store's software. Apple will hit a brick wall if they aren't already near it.

Re:Personally

[yyxx]

No. That was true for PalmOS back in the day, but it's not true for iOS. iOS is every bit as resolution independent as Android is. All coordinates are given in points, not pixels. Font sizes are given in points, not pixels. On old iPhones one point was 1.0 pixels. On the new iPhones 1 point is 2.0 pixels.

That isn't resolution independence. A resolution independent UI adapts to new screen sizes not by scaling coordinates, but by actually changing the layout of components.

It's perfectly possible for Apple to have introduced a new iPhone where there was a non integer number of pixels. The reason they didn't is because a UI scaled by a non integer number wouldn't look as good.

That's what "it lacks resolution independence" means: on larger screens, iPhone just scales up the smaller layout, unless the code itself is altered. You can see exactly how iOS handles larger screens by looking at iPhone apps on iPad: you get a big black border, a pixelated keyboard, and a layout that is ill-suited to the large screen.

That's true whether you are talking about iOS or Android.

No, it's not. Android apps look fine at non-integer multiples.

It's the highest res screen on a smartphone. That would be something to brag about no matter what the reasons behind it.

It exposes a limitation of the operating system, and it forces a bad design compromise. Putting a 323dpi screen on a cell phone is a bad cost/benefit tradeoff.

Again, complete nonsense. The better Android smartphones (i.e. the ones that are always brought up by people trying to claim that Android has caught up with iPhone) cost about the same as the iPhone. For example the HTC Evo 4G with 8GB costs $199.99 with a 2 year contract. The iPhone 4 16GB costs $199 with a 2 year contract.

You can't compare phone prices that way because phone companies play games with subscription rates. The iPhone costs more than $1000 when purchased separately (outside the US), compared to about $500 for the Motorola Droid (in the same markets).

Re:Personally

[BasilBrush]

That isn't resolution independence. A resolution independent UI adapts to new screen sizes not by scaling coordinates, but by actually changing the layout of components.

You don't know what you are taking about. That's just screen size independence. Something for example Windows has had since v2.0 back in to 1980s. Resolution independance is a whole lot more, and Windows again for example, only started getting resolution independance in Windows Vista.

Read and learn:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resolution_independence
http://developer.android.com/guide/practices/screens_support.html

Resolution independence includes all the things I mentioned and more. And if you look at the Android page - be sure to read it all - you'll see it deals with most of them.

Don't bother trying to argue the toss with me. I've been developing smartphone UIs for more than a decade.

You can see exactly how iOS handles larger screens by looking at iPhone apps on iPad: you get a big black border, a pixelated keyboard, and a layout that is ill-suited to the large screen.

Here's a screenshot of Aldiko as displayed on an Android tablet. It's had a good try at resizing for the larger screen BUT The font has gone wrong, and so you can't read any of the labels.
http://www.droidsector.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/aldiko-shelf.jpg
Many other Android phone apps simply won't install at all on an Android tablet.

You see whilst an OS can supply the facilities for resolution independence, it needs app developers to use them. Apple took the approach with the iPad that would allow EVERY iPhone app to run, no matter whether the developer had taken care to be resolution independent or not.

Meanwhile iPhone OS 3 and earlier apps run on the iPhone 4 in full resolution for any text or anything that's drawn, or anything that uses system controls. The only time there will be pixel doubling is for bitmap app resources.

Again, if Apple had chosen to release an iPhone with a different pixel density, it would also have worked. But none the legacy apps wouldn't have looked as nice.

There's a difference between what the app supports, what app developers do, and what looks good, that I think is too subtle for you.

It exposes a limitation of the operating system, and it forces a bad design compromise. Putting a 323dpi screen on a cell phone is a bad cost/benefit tradeoff.

The limitation is only your ignorance of how iOS works. And a superior higher res screen for a price the same as last years model and lower than the HTC EVO 4G is hardly a bad tradeoff. If Android had a screen with an equal or higher res screen, you'd be praising it.

You can't compare phone prices that way because phone companies play games with subscription rates. The iPhone costs more than $1000 when purchased separately (outside the US), compared to about $500 for the Motorola Droid (in the same markets).

I'm in the UK. The iPhone 4 starts at £499 which is $754. So again you're either mistaken or just making things up. The Motorola Droid is last years model - and I can't find a UK unlocked price for it.

Re:Personally

[BasilBrush]

I stated there's a point of no return. You won't see improvements after a point.

You might have stated it, but you're not Nostradamus, and you are most certainly wrong. Electronic devices always improve year on year. e.g. They've been shipping TVs since the 1930s, and they are still getting better technology. We're in the middle of upgrades to digital, HD and now full colour 3D is coming.

Just because you can't now imagine what the improvements to phone hardware will be in years and decades to come, doesn't mean they won't happen.

The hobbled OSX that Apple has implemented has serious limits. Just look at the hacked multitasking implementation as an example.

Hacked? I'm afraid you don't understand. It would be far easier for Apple simply to allow unlimited multi-tasking as Android does. The OS is perfectly capable of it - it's the exact same kernel as on Desktop OSX. And indeed it always did multitask with the built-in system apps. e.g. Music continued to play when you switched away from the iPod app.

The Apple approach of suspending background apps, and providing limited background services to them was far more work for Apple to implement. So what did they do it? Because running background apps drains battery life. Don't believe it? Even Google, the creators of Android admits it does:
http://www.loopinsight.com/2010/05/19/google-says-multitasking-apps-hurt-androids-battery-life/

The iPhone solution isn't a "hack". It's a way of providing 99% of the utility of full multi-tasking whilst preserving the battery life. It's a good engineering solution.

Re:Personally

[yyxx]

Meanwhile iPhone OS 3 and earlier apps run on the iPhone 4 in full resolution for any text or anything that's drawn, or anything that uses system controls. The only time there will be pixel doubling is for bitmap app resources.

I own an iPad and have it right here. iPhone OS 3 apps on iPad use pixel doubling for everything: the text is pixelated, the keyboard is pixelated, even native iPhone widgets are pixelated and show pixelated text. The iPad demonstrates how crappy iOS handling of resolution and screen size issues is.

Basically, you have no idea of what you're talking about.

Don't bother trying to argue the toss with me. I've been developing smartphone UIs for more than a decade.

Any idiot can develop smartphone UIs, and obviously any idiot does.

Re:Personally

[yyxx]

I'm in the UK. The iPhone 4 starts at £499 which is $754. So again you're either mistaken or just making things up.

I'm neither mistaken nor am I making things up, that's how much it costs unlocked in Germany.

In the UK, you can get a Motorola Milestone for £339. If we look at continental Europe, in France, the 16G iPhone starts at EU 629, while you can get a Motorola Milestone for EU 350.

(Try learning how to use a price search engine. Oh, wait, I forgot, you're just an Apple fanboy, so you just buy whatever they sell to you at whatever price they're asking.)

Re:Personally

[BasilBrush]

I'm neither mistaken nor am I making things up, that's how much [iPhone 4] costs unlocked in Germany. ...
(Try learning how to use a price search engine. Oh, wait, I forgot, you're just an Apple fanboy, so you just buy whatever they sell to you at whatever price they're asking.)

I've used one but I speak English not German, so please provide the evidence for your claim, as you say it's so easy.

the 16G iPhone starts at EU 629

Which is very close to the price I quoted for the UK. So is Germany really the anomaly you claim it is? If so why? And why are you using the most expensive iPhone price you can find anywhere in the world in your attempt to compare prices for the iPhone.

Will you provide me with the link to the price of an unlocked iPhone 4 for > $1000 I wonder? What fun it will be finding out.

Re:Personally

[BasilBrush]

"Meanwhile iPhone OS 3 and earlier apps run on the iPhone 4 in full resolution for any text or anything that's drawn, or anything that uses system controls. The only time there will be pixel doubling is for bitmap app resources."

I own an iPad and have it right here. iPhone OS 3 apps on iPad use pixel doubling for everything: the text is pixelated, the keyboard is pixelated, even native iPhone widgets are pixelated and show pixelated text.

You can't read either.

Basically, you have no idea of what you're talking about.

You say, after having skipped past the links that prove you are completely wrong with your concept of resolution independence. I know exactly what I'm talking about, it's my job, and has been since you were in diapers. It's not your job, I knew that as soon as you started posting. It's obvious.

Any idiot can develop smartphone UIs

No. It's quite clearly beyond your capabilities.

Re:Personally

[bingoUV]

GP:

Plus when the Nexus One came out its display actually was 2x higher res than the top of the line iPhone 3GS.

You :

they are always following

When someone points out that they are not following, you ignore that part of the post. Interesting.

Re:Personally

[BasilBrush]

http://www.3gstore.de/iphone-4/

It's almost certain 3gstore.de doesn't have any iPhone 4's to sell. The first clue is because they are offering white iPhone 4s. These are not available till the second half of July.

They are certainly not a distributor for Apple, Apple have sent them a cease and desist notice about them selling iPhones. It appears that if the are not purely a scam site, they get whatever stock they can on the grey market from other countries.
http://randolf.jorberg.com/2009/02/02/3gstore-publishes-iphone-photos-after-apple-cease-desist/

Whatever price they are charging has nothing to do with the real price of an iPhone 4. Not even in Germany, let alone as you used it as a general idea of the price of an iPhone 4 for comparison to Android phones. I've already shown you genuine official dealer prices for unlocked iPhone 4s in Europe, and they are nothing like that.

Yes, and about 300 pounds more than a Droid/Milestone costs in the UK, which was my point.

Fascinating. So you ignore the price of the iPhone 4 in the UK that I gae you, yet you want to compare an unofficial and inflated German price to... the UK price for an Android phone. Duh.

I've just noticed you have a "Freak" designation next to your username. In more than a decade on slashdot I've only ever marked about 3 of those. Clearly you'll come up with this kind of bullshit before. You're a complete idiot. No wonder you prefer Android devices.

a new way of programming

[digitalsushi]

Where I work, we were really upset there was no way to use wireshark on the ipad. So we made cloudshark, and I bet a lot of other people are doing identical things -- the beauty of jQuery and other APIs like that is that you can replace 90% of a regular desktop app with a simple web page. There are probably tons of other examples of this sort of thing. There's all sorts of CSS hooks for ipad to accomplish the new modes of use, scolling, double fingers, et cetera. It's frankly very fun.

Re:a new way of programming

[pandrijeczko]

I don't see why this would be particularly useful from an iPad perspective.

Wireshark is a network protocol analyser and therefore needs to be physically on the network requiring the analysis - so presumably you still need to deploy an instance of Wireshark on that network but then drive it from a web interface from an iPad or other device located somewhere else.

However, the only reason I could think of why this would be useful would be if the Wireshark box has no GUI on it - but then why not just SSH into the Wireshark box and run it from the command line?

Sure, jQuery might be useful for other types of apps but it seems pointless for Wireshark.

Re:a new way of programming

[digitalsushi]

I can assure you (since we bothered making it in the first place!), that there are a lot of archived packets that require analyzing. It is this subset which we address. Live capture is simply a subset of packet sources. Also, we suck in capture files from other URLs, so any website can essentially spawn a packet viewer simply by linking their own URL as an argument to our site.

Re:a new way of programming

[Monkeedude1212]

Mod this up - I found this to be an issue as well. Last night I was fiddling around with the idea of monitoring all traffic going in and out of my local network, specifically the ability to monitor any of the smaller devices using the wifi. The general idea being that once I move into my new place, I might leave the WiFi unsecure and snoop on anyone who decides to drop in.

No matter what I did, I couldn't grab any real info on what the iPad was browsing. I eventually tried ARP poisoning with Cain and while that allowed me to monitor what pages were being served by monitoring my own local interface, it would sometimes cause various HTTPS requests to fail, because of the fake certs generated. I know on most windows machines it just gives you that warning "This site might not be secure" and most users continue anyways. I'm not really interested in pulling off the real dangerous MITM attacks, I just want to know whats going in and out.

Is that just a thing with Apple products (their whole being more secure thing) or is it mobile devices in general, or just iDevices? Or am I just a total Noob who needs to do more learning before trying to tackle this stuff? (I did just start this like 2 days ago.

Re:a new way of programming

[pandrijeczko]

Okay, I guess I'm missing something here because if you need to analyse captures from remote sources then what's stopping you installing Wireshark locally and feeding the capture file into that to filter it, etc.

It's not as though there are any licensing costs around it, you can install it wherever and as many times as you like...

Re:a new way of programming

[geekoid]

Noting says something is a great device like having to change the way you do stuff to accommodate it~

Re:a new way of programming

[Duradin]

Mice will never catch on. Now please excuse me while I fish the cursor from my slide rule out of this mechanical relay.

I doubt their stats-gathering methods

[Dr.Merkwurdigeliebe]

How many users even know about the App Store *approval process*. Hmm? I'm an iPhone developer, and it bugs me to no end. But how the hell would an end user know? They have no way of interacting with the App Store's approval process, just the "storefront", so to speak. If a large enough number of respondents were dissatisfied with that, then I question who they solicited.

Re:I doubt their stats-gathering methods

[pandrijeczko]

It's perfectly relevant.

What about emulation apps that an iPad owner can run on his PC but will never be approved to run on his/her iPad?

Also other tools, like those that fall into the "security" or "adult" categories that, again, Steve will never say yes to.

Re:I doubt their stats-gathering methods

[Wovel]

They know about it because the question was asked. It sounds like something you should not like , so they said they didn't. A fairly obvious case of observer influence. You have to know for certain the subject of a poll independently knows what something is or any question you ask about it is totally invalid.

Re:I doubt their stats-gathering methods

[Dr.Merkwurdigeliebe]

I really doubt that anyone would run an iPad emulator to get to iPad apps. They don't translate well to the desktop paradigm (or vice-versa, which is why tablets haven't been successful until recently). People may be aware of the approval process, blocking out adult apps, but they do actually exist. So I don't see anyone being dissatisfied by this unless they're involved with the industry. Also, notice how a significant proportion of the respondents have had their iPad since launch day. Yeah, right. Like an average use was lined up to get an iPad.

Re:I doubt their stats-gathering methods

[painandgreed]

How many users even know about the App Store *approval process*. Hmm? I'm an iPhone developer, and it bugs me to no end. But how the hell would an end user know? They have no way of interacting with the App Store's approval process, just the "storefront", so to speak. If a large enough number of respondents were dissatisfied with that, then I question who they solicited.

Because it's news. Slashdot isn't the only website the publishes articles about when Apple rejects something or reverses an acceptance of an app. (Indeed, /. really only posts about news stories elsewhere.) When something like that happens, it makes the mainstream news circuit. CNN has articles about it. The Economist has articles about it. The other news channels have blurbs about it. It may not be headline news, but it is certainly filler news that has injected itself into the mainstream knowledge. How do you think that public reaction builds up to the point that Apple reverses their decision so quickly. I'd almost bet that most people have a better idea of the current App Store approval process than they do of what is going on in congress currently. (Although that might not be saying much.)

Re:I doubt their stats-gathering methods

[Dr.Merkwurdigeliebe]

Exactly

Re:I doubt their stats-gathering methods

[bm_luethke]

To some extent yes it is something that devs are going to care more about than the end user, but more or less they eventually find out by seeing something for another phone they want, ask why, and get the answer.

For instance, I coach Archery. For someone looking to be truly competitive they have to keep journals, while paper ones are good electronic ones are even better. They *could* (and often do) use a laptop to input the data from a worksheet they carry around with them on the range but that is cumbersome and really only the most dedicated enter it that many times. So, along came these wonderful devices called "palm pilots" and there were three or four great journal applications written for them - not only that but the touch screen (with a stylus then) was near perfect for entering a great deal of the information one collect. As time has gone on support for those devices has mostly gone away.

There has not really been a good contender to take the Pilots place either long term (I know there were successive palm devices with different names, but for the most part those are gone now too). The Blackberry and Windows Mobile platforms do not function well at this type of application so no one was wanting them or those systems, as such their closed/open nature was/is irrelevant. Now, an iPhone is back to being a near perfect device for this - but it isn't going to happen. The market is really small for it so the Apple app store has some serious issues. First is that people may spend a great deal of their time developing the app only to have it denied (and it would be a close thing too given how much they have to charge for the software and how few people would use it - it doesn't really fit their store guidelines), whiel that is a developer issue at its heart it is something quite visible to the end user in that the app is unavailable to them. Secondly is that cost for getting there is too high - many of them need the free distribution lines and the control they have by offering it for download on their site.

So, along comes the Android phone - near perfect again but this time they can write it and distribute it themselves. Two people had a beta program you could sign up for with them (free while under beta, discount when full version comes out). There were at least a good 20 or so requests for an iPhone version, after the store issues were explained all but a VERY small handful understood. I know of at least a handful of Android phones sold because of this too, while some just wanted a smartphone and the resultant apps some would have preferred to stay with Apple (a product you feel has a great interface and great hardware is useless if you can't do you needed tasks on it).

I know that story has been repeated for quite some time in a number of other message boards and blogs out there. I also know that, for instance, we sell a product for smartphones that an app store doesn't make sense for distribution - we are tied to a server the customer buys as part of the package and has to dedicate (depending on choices it runs from around 7500-10000 for the application/hardware). We sell to the first responder network in the US and mostly deal with Majors, Chiefs, and Sheriffs (not tech people) and the fast majority ask "Did you pick the Android phone because of Apples closed store?" (yes, Apple would not approve our model at all so you will *never* have it on your iPhone as we can't require a jailbroken phone and the support nightmares that would go along with that).

People just going out and looking for smartphones are going to be that clueless, some that use their phones for simple actions will too - but for a large portion of them they know what is going on. Even those that are mostly oblivious are quickly discovering small specialized applications they can't get on their iPhone and are being told why. In fact I rather suspect that given the hype of all the great things you are going to do with your iPhone and iPad people that were looking for a consumer device and then find all sorts of things t

Re:I doubt their stats-gathering methods

[stewbacca]

That was the only question I had a problem with. They introduced bias by adding negative associations that the user may not have known about.

really?

[sharp3]

Why would the average iPad consumer care about the app approval process? The average iPad buyer is not a developer. If that's the best complaint that they can manufacture in this article, I'm inclined to say this is an anti-Apple article with questionable researching techniques. Although, I didn't RTFA, so maybe I missed something.

iPad owner opinion

[Paul Rose]

I have an iPad at home, and while I'm a developer by trade, I do not develop iPad/iPhone apps.

I have two major gripes (and they are easy to guess):

1) Flash support. This is purely a practical objection (suspending my philosophical objections). This is a neat toy for having around the house. It is the #1 way my kids browse. There are a lot of child oriented sites that need flash ( my younger kids love pbskids.org ). If apple succeeds in driving flash from the web and everybody uses html5 then I'd be fine, but this will take forever.

2) Printing. I never missed it much on my iPhone, but when you are using the iPad it is hard not to think of it as a "computer", and a computer should be able to print. There are some apps that help here, but there needs to be universal support. I'm sitting on the couch reading an e-mail. Next to me hidden under an end table is my wifi laser printer. I really would like to print an email. I'd also like to print out map/directions to take on a trip. This really needs to be on the iOS list (even if it needs a daemon / iTunes on a computer to avoid having to load printer drivers in the iPad).

Re:iPad owner opinion

[Gulthek]

I'm not disagreeing with #2, but I don't get your use cases. Why print an email or directions, don't you have your iPad?

Re:iPad owner opinion

[BlueBoxSW.com]

I agree with #2, this would come in handy, and would give rise to some better apps on the ipad.

I don't miss Flash one bit.

Re:iPad owner opinion

[cowscows]

Maybe I'm printing up directions to some lake a couple hours away where I'm going to go canoeing. I don't particularly want to take the iPad out on the water, and I also don't like the idea of leaving it back in my car baking in the sun in the parking lot.

Re:iPad owner opinion

[suomynonAyletamitlU]

You may want to take the emails somewhere that the iPad is too bulky to take, and you may need directions when you don't have wireless access (with the non-3G device). Or, alternately, you may not want to leave the iPad in your car/hotel room/whatever when you get there, and again it's too bulky to take wherever you're going.

Seriously, a piece of paper folds up and fits into your pocket. Unless you want to carry a backpack or satchel or other luggage with you, you can't carry the device everywhere you go. Unless you like having no more than one hand at a time and being an excellent target for pickpockets. Is it really that hard to "get"?

Re:iPad owner opinion

[nine-times]

I'd also like to add:

3) File management. Getting files on and off or deleting files requires manual intervention in iTunes. It works, but it's a bit lame. There are other applications that aim to address this, but it should be handled in a comprehensive and systematic way.

4) Safari's handling of tabs. Switching tabs is slow, and when you revisit a background tab it will probably reload the page (which kind of defeats the purpose). There are other browsers that do a better job, but it's silly that Apple released a browser that works this way.

5) Needs better chat. I'm using IM+, but surely someone can do a better job?

Otherwise, I'm relatively happy. I'm not quite getting as much use out of it as I'd hoped, but I am finding it to be genuinely useful. Knowing what I know now, I might have waited a year for the next revision, but I don't regret the purchase.

Re:iPad owner opinion

[Paul Rose]

I don't take the iPad in the car, and I can read the 8.5x11 printout easier than my phone. My car doesn't have wi-fi, and I prefer to leave the iPad at home anyway. A in-car navigation system ght be better, but that is beside the point.

My wife uses the iPad for her e-mail. She receives an agenda for an upcoming volunteer meeting. She prints out the agenda to take with her. Again 8.5x11 is easier to read than her phone, and the iPad stays at home (not to mention that there is no open wifi at the meeting location).

Re:iPad owner opinion

[Darkman, Walkin Dude]

1) Flash support. This is purely a practical objection (suspending my philosophical objections). This is a neat toy for having around the house. It is the #1 way my kids browse. There are a lot of child oriented sites that need flash ( my younger kids love pbskids.org ).

Also, farmville. Can't wait until people figure out they can't play that on their ipad.

Re:iPad owner opinion

[DrMaurer]

So, let me get this right...you want to use an ultra-portable computer, but there are some places you won't take it, and that is a problem with the device?

If you're going to go canoeing, walk over to your regular PC and print out the directions. Or, well, use a dropbox/autohotkey kind of setup where you can print files on a target computer once they are placed in a directory.

There are objections, man, but really, think about it for a half-second.

Also, there are big zip-loc bags you could use.

What do I know? I just carry my cheap netbook everywhere...

Re:iPad owner opinion

[TheKidWho]

4) Try Atomic Browser
5) Try Beejive

Re:iPad owner opinion

[TheKidWho]

Except, wait for it, they can!

http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/farmville-by-zynga/id375562663?mt=8

Re:iPad owner opinion

[Superken7]

Mod parent up, 5) is especially important!

How can they even *think* of promoting iOS4 as multitasking capable :

1.- no notification system (no, that horrendous popup-system does not count)
2.- no way apps can run their own code in the background.

end result: no chat. Even if chatting IS possible, I'd get an ipad not because it does more, but because of the commodity and comfort of doing certain tasks more comfortably (browsing for instance).
Its not very uncommon to chat while browsing the web, even for iJoe. Chatting on the ipad should be comfortable, not as uncomfortable as it is now.

I mean, will their honor be so badly damaged if they admit other platforms do a better job at that and copy it? Android and Web OS both have great notification systems. Wake up, apple! catch up!

Re:iPad owner opinion

[cowscows]

No, I'm just saying that even though I have an ipad, there might be a few cases where I still want to print directions. This isn't a flaw with the iPad, it's not like I'm suggesting that Apple should give everyone a free printer to make up for it. But if I've got a printer on my home network already, why shouldn't the iPad be able to take advantage of it?

I expect that Apple will eventually develop a better system for printing from the iPad. It certainly wasn't a priority for them for the first gen, and that probably wasn't a bad decision. But that doesn't mean that it wouldn't be useful.

Re:iPad owner opinion

[nacturation]

So, let me get this right...you want to use an ultra-portable computer, but there are some places you won't take it, and that is a problem with the device?

There are many reasons why one would want to print from any given device, ultra-portable or not. Your fixation on "some places you won't take it" is a red herring. The issue is its (in)ability to print, which is certainly desirable functionality for some.

I don't have an iPad, but if I did I would be more than happy to take it when I visit my sister's family, for example. And wouldn't it be nice if there were an app that had hundreds of readily available "color by numbers" drawings that I could easily print out and give to the kids and they could go to town on the printout with their crayons? Sure, I could use their PC and find PDFs or web pages, but it's not asking much that something essentially running OS X under the hood be able to do what just about any general purpose computer has been able to do for the last 30 years.

Re:iPad owner opinion

[Darkman, Walkin Dude]

Lets hope they find out about that before they go back to their netbook then! :-D

Re:iPad owner opinion

[radtea]

Why print an email or directions, don't you have your iPad?

Ever hike in the wilderness? Go sailing? Canoeing? Kayaking? Diving?

I spend a lot of time outdoors, much of it on the water, and I never take my netbook with me because I think it really looks better in its non-immersed state. But sometimes there's useful information online that I want to take with me.

Ergo: printing.

Until they build one of these things that's water resistant to at least 10 m printing is a must. The only electronics that goes on the water with me is a throw-away-cheap cell phone.

Re:iPad owner opinion

[stewbacca]

It seems like a developer could write an app that would let you print over a wireless network. I mean, if people are complaining that it can't print (physically not possible) that's one thing, but if it can't print yet, because no app has been written to do so, then that's a very minor problem. At least if such an App comes to life, you won't have to buy version 2 just to print.

Re:iPad owner opinion

[masmullin]

3) even worse is that you can't use the iPad with a Time Capsule.

6) Safari has no "find" on the iPad

Re:iPad owner opinion

[swb]

Definitely #3 and #4.

WRT to file management, I wish you could use third party flash storage. I have a 64 GB wifi and 64 doesn't cut it, especially for net-disconnected travel. I don't want to load a half-dozen movies into iTunes and then sync into the iPad, I'd like to see the iPad be able to import from a memory stick somehow, even if it actually meant copying to internal flash; I could at least delete when I'm done and reclaim the space without permanently deleting the file.

Safari could use tabs; the window switching metaphor from the iPhone doesn't cut it. I've been using Atomic browser, which has tabs, and it's fabulous, but either it has poor memory management or there's just not enough in the iPad as three JavaScript-heavy active tabs will give me memory warnings. The big downside is you can't create web links that open Atomic browser like Safari can.

The other two minor gripes -- it feels slightly underpowered on "real" web sites that are Javascript heavy (facebook, netflix, etc). The Netflix app is a dog, although video playback seems OK. About 25% more CPU power would be welcome when viewing large web sites. The good news is that you can view big web sites generally speaking, although I find myself accessing mobile/iphone-oriented (touch.facebook.com) sites to gain a bit of speed.

Overall it works very well for what it was intended to be, a convient, simple couch/bedroom/kitchen table machine.

Re:iPad owner opinion

[nine-times]

I have Atomic Browser and don't like Beejive any better than IM+. Still, these are both things that Apple should handle better.

Re:iPad owner opinion

[nine-times]

The inability of apps to run in the background isn't such a bit deal for chat. Even before iOS4, iPhone OS could do notifications, which is really all a chat program needs. However, I agree that having pop-ups isn't as good as having a proper notification system.

Re:iPad owner opinion

[atamido]

Also, there are big zip-loc bags you could use.

The capacitive touch screen won't work through a plastic bag, or gloves for that matter. You need something that will pass electricity.

That said, I agree with the GP. I have an iPhone, but a map printed on a sheet of paper is still easier to read than a device in your hand. It would also be nice if you could simply print to PDF stored on the device. Sometimes you want to read articles later when you don't have internet access.

Re:iPad owner opinion

[TheRealSync]

Printing. [...] (even if it needs a daemon / iTunes on a computer to avoid having to load printer drivers in the iPad).

Try "Print n Share" from the App store.

Re:iPad owner opinion

[Lars T.]

Mod parent up, 5) is especially important!

How can they even *think* of promoting iOS4 as multitasking capable

As this is about the iPad - how did you get iOS 4 into the picture?

Re:iPad owner opinion

[Superken7]

You are right, but chatting works exactly the same on iOS v3 and v4.
I was just making the point that chatting has still a long way to go on iOS devices. (doesn't matter if its iOS v3 or v4)

Maybe I should have explained myself better, but I think the lack of multitasking and the lack of a proper notification system is the reason why chatting sucks on the iphone/ipad/ipod (IMHO)

Survey stinks, iPad doesn't

[LS1 Brains]

I haven't started developing for the iPad, although after being a user for the past 2 months I honestly think it's an outstanding platform to focus attention on.

The UI is buttery smooth. This is one thing EVERY other device I've put hands on doesn't even come close to getting right. Android is wonderful, and I love it - but the UI just isn't as fluid and responsive. This may not change how the device works but it certainly changes how you perceive the device is working. I see it every time someone uses an Android phone (myself included): click, click again because it didn't give you immediate feedback or response. Turn the device sideways, wait a couple seconds, flip it back and forth a couple times because the display didn't rotate. Things like that are minor in 'tech, but huge in usability.

The tougher process of getting an app INTO the iTunes app store I honestly think is helping weed out the lower grade fluff we find in the Android market. How many times have you gone looking through apps, found something that looked pretty good, installed it, and it was crap? How many reviews on the Android Market read something like this: Force closes, one star!. It's the same problem with all the various free Windows software that's everywhere on the net. You have more choice, but you have more choices of crap. If people are going to spend the time, money, and effort to get an app into Apple's store, they're more likely to make sure it's something that's worth being there. They want to get paid, after all.

Getting back to end-users, of which I've been exclusively since this thing launched -- it really is awesome. I carry it instead of a laptop nearly every time I would have taken my laptop. I carry it now when I wouldn't have carried anything before, simply because I can. Then again, if I had an iPhone I'd probably leave it home more often. Regardless, the beauty is being able to do real work on it (email, web-based enterprise apps, etc.) without having to take anything else with me. No power cord, no problem - I get a full day PLUS worth of power out of the battery. Battery life + 3G + usable screen size (1024x768 means my work webapps fit perfectly) + a very usable on-screen keyboard = happy camper.

Re:Survey stinks, iPad doesn't

[MozeeToby]

How many times have you gone looking through apps, found something that looked pretty good, installed it, and it was crap?

None. Not once in fact. You see, those reviews and stars are there for a reason. If something gets crap reviews, don't buy it. In exchange for requiring that tiny bit of due diligence, I have several apps that would never make it though Apple's approval process. Apps that would require voiding my warranty to get on the i-Devices.

Re:Survey stinks, iPad doesn't

[bberens]

I had the pleasure of getting my hands on an iPad for a couple weeks for a work related project. Deleting all of the other department's apps to clean the device so we could have only our apps on it took like 2 hours of re-imaging the device. Oh, and you couldn't even do it unless you were connected to the internet. Holy mother of God, that's ridiculous. I had TONS of issues with the screen rotation stuff. With the little bit I did get to play with a couple games that required you to shake the thing that almost never triggered properly. It's a neat toy and it was surely better than the other touch-screen devices I work with (truck-mounted CE devices) but it was not an awe-inspiring experience for me. If Apple's iPad is truly the best in class tablet device (which I find very believable) then I think I'll be waiting until the 4-5th generation before plunking down a few hundred bucks on one.

Re:Survey stinks, iPad doesn't

[painandgreed]

The tougher process of getting an app INTO the iTunes app store I honestly think is helping weed out the lower grade fluff we find in the Android market. How many times have you gone looking through apps, found something that looked pretty good, installed it, and it was crap? How many reviews on the Android Market read something like this: Force closes, one star!. It's the same problem with all the various free Windows software that's everywhere on the net. You have more choice, but you have more choices of crap. If people are going to spend the time, money, and effort to get an app into Apple's store, they're more likely to make sure it's something that's worth being there. They want to get paid, after all.

This is one of the reasons I don't complain too much about the App store approval process, or at least that the App store is near the only way to get apps on the iPhone. I remember going out to Cnet or two Cows and downloading apps for my Palm III and V. I'd go through them all and pick and install the ones that looked good and had decent ratings. I still learned that I'd have to schedule time to reset my Palm and go uninstall two thrids of the programs afterward because they were too buggy to use or otherwise caused it to crash.

Re:Survey stinks, iPad doesn't

[agent_vee]

Just what Android devices do you have experience with? For me the Nexus One is every bit as responsive and smooth as the iPad.

Re:Survey stinks, iPad doesn't

[LS1 Brains]

I have a T-mobile G1, ordered it the first moment I was able. I've also put hands on nearly every other Android phone I could, including the Droid, Nexus One, etc.

While the latest iterations are indeed quite zippy, nobody can say the UI is as consistently smooth as even an iPhone 2G. It is like playing a video game on a GeForce 8400 GS vs. a GeForce 9800 GT - they both render the same stuff, and they both move around the same, but the frame rate is obviously faster on one of them. The latency between a command and its response is also faster on iPhone OS devices, and more consistently faster. Even if that is only a perception because of instantly performing an animation, it makes the device "feel" nicer. Scrolling in the browser is another example - its just smoother on the iPhone. There's plenty of video comparisons, but put 'em both in your hand and it really becomes obvious. It isn't something that makes the Nexus One or Droid or others "bad" phone, because they're VERY good phones, but there's perceptual things about the iPhone OS devices that strongly contribute to their popularity.

Re:Survey stinks, iPad doesn't

[nacturation]

How many times have you gone looking through apps, found something that looked pretty good, installed it, and it was crap?

None. Not once in fact. You see, those reviews and stars are there for a reason. If something gets crap reviews, don't buy it. In exchange for requiring that tiny bit of due diligence, I have several apps that would never make it though Apple's approval process. Apps that would require voiding my warranty to get on the i-Devices.

Who contributes the reviews if nobody tries it until it's reviewed?

Re:Survey stinks, iPad doesn't

[Cyberllama]

Your post has an infammatory headline, but then your post's body says nothing to justify it. Why does this the "survey stink"? I feel like you probably didn't read it, as the majority of the users in it were as glowing in their praise of the iPad as you were.

Either you read it and then screamed out loud: "DAMN THIS SURVEY WHICH CONFIRMS MY BELIEFS. I CANNOT ACCEPT ITS VALIDITY."

Or you simply didn't read it at all. Still, you typed an amazingly long response to something you didn't bother reading. That's unusual.

Re:Survey stinks, iPad doesn't

[Deosyne]

I've bought a couple of apps that were well reviewed but that turned out not to be for me. Big deal; uninstall within 24 hours for a full refund.

Re:Survey stinks, iPad doesn't

[vux984]

The tougher process of getting an app INTO the iTunes app store I honestly think is helping weed out the lower grade fluff we find in the Android market. How many times have you gone looking through apps, found something that looked pretty good, installed it, and it was crap? How many reviews on the Android Market read something like this: Force closes, one star!. It's the same problem with all the various free Windows software that's everywhere on the net. You have more choice, but you have more choices of crap. If people are going to spend the time, money, and effort to get an app into Apple's store, they're more likely to make sure it's something that's worth being there. They want to get paid, after all.

This is the sort of thing that i keep seeing. The app store is good because it blocks a lot of crap, stuff that crashes all the time, etc. And this is true. And this is a good thing about 'app stores'.

And honestly i've never met a single person on the face of the earth who REALLY had a problem with the app-store itself, as concept, as an implementation, as a way to get apps, as apples preferred way to get apps, etc.

But there is no valid reason for the app-store to be the ONLY way to get apps. Just as apt-get is not the only way to get ubuntu apps. If you want to download a nightly build of something, or write something yourself, or whatever you can. But most of us use apt-get most of the time, for most stuff that is available in the main repos. And if apple was set up this way most people would only use the app store and be perfectly happy, and for the minority of people who want/need something that isn't in the store and are willing to do the work to load it themselves they should be able to do that without being demonized or even criminalized.

I'm quite happy for a particular reason

[wandazulu]

I'm an avid geocacher and I've found the GPS accuracy in the iPad to be better than the iPhone, and comparable to my Garmin 60csx (which is more-or-less the gold standard). I use the iPad for a lot of other reasons (the kids like to watch movies or play games on it while we're driving out to a forest preserve) but I was really pleasantly surprised to see that I could pretty much rely on it to get me to the spot.

I'm waiting for Otterbox to come out with their Defender case so I can keep it out all the time through the woods, instead of putting it back in the backpack on the chance I trip over a log or something. The iPad might not be as compact as the iPhone or Garmin, but it beats a day of DNFs.

Re:I'm quite happy for a particular reason

[Wovel]

I believe that new GPS accuracy is in the iPhone 4 as well. Would be interesting to see how they compare.

Re:I'm quite happy for a particular reason

[Eponymous Coward]

Don't you find the iPad screen hard to read outside?

Re:I'm quite happy for a particular reason

[wandazulu]

Yes, it can be difficult, though with the brightness turned all the way up, it's...okay; if I'm under a tree it's perfectly fine, only in the direct sunlight does it become a problem.

The iPad version of MotionX's GPS application is good in that the lat/long screen shows the coordinates in big numbers, so it's pretty easy to read.

Re:I'm quite happy for a particular reason

[masmullin]

I find mine impossible to use outside.

Re:I'm quite happy for a particular reason

[gurner]

I was using my iPad outside the other day, lazing around in the bright sun reading an ebook. It was ok to read off once I'd got used to the reflection from the screen.

The main issue was that the iPad got too hot and went into temperature shutdown mode - and I'm in Britain, summer isn't /that/ hot!

pardon?

[jfoobaz]

Don't survey a subset of the users and then generalize that to all users. It's inherently unfair.

Surveying a subset and generalizing the population from which it's drawn is what we call inferential statistics; it's a cornerstone of modern science and social research.
There may be some significant problems with the survey design, however. There's no information about how the survey was conducted (internet? email? something else?), or how the respondents for it were chosen (self-selection? something else?). The information's a bit to sketchy to tell how reliable the survey is.

Re:pardon?

[BearRanger]

I get this, but what I mean (and was unclear about) is that the survey appears to be a survey of only developers. Not a random selection of purchasers.

Re:pardon?

[stewbacca]

Self-selected visitors of that site and its partner sites. Survey was a form presented on the site that recorded the participants answers.

I think it is a better survey of tech enthusiasts (and more precisely, Apple enthusiasts), given the survey is only hosted on mac-centric websites. As long as that is all discussed up front (and it was), I have no problem with the findings.

Pretty much sums it up

[NekSnappa]

I have a 16Gb iPad 3G and I must say that their survey matches my experience.
I don't care about a camera on it. Front or back. And find the only things I wish it had were native print function, and built in SD card reader. The 3G service is OK except at work where my building seems to be some sort of Faraday cage for anything radio related.

I was kind of surprised that iBooks wasn't showing as highly rated as I thought. For me that is the killer app. It makes access to the Project Gutenberg material flat out painless. I know that there are other ways I could get those titles on there and read them if it wasn't built into the app, but this makes it easy.

Re:Pretty much sums it up

[jedidiah]

> It makes access to the Project Gutenberg material flat out painless. I know that there are other ways
> I could get those titles on there and read them if it wasn't built into the app, but this makes it easy.

Yes... because pointing and clicking through a webpage is such a burden.

Re:Pretty much sums it up

[TheKidWho]

Yes... because making things easier interferes with the pureness of the device.
He's obviously not a real geek, a real geek would be using an ftp client to download material via the command line on a kernel in a language he bootstrapped himself...

Re:Pretty much sums it up

[NekSnappa]

Didn't say it was a burden. Just that it is easier in iBooks.
Since you can't directly download the file to an iPad from Gutenberg's website. You first have to download to your computer and then email it to yourself, or use the iTunes sync to move the file over. Then locate the file with the reader app.

So although not burdensome. It is more difficult than getting it from the iBook store, then going to your "library" and start reading.

Re:Pretty much sums it up

[b0bby]

I read a lot of PG books on my Palm - "pointing and clicking through a webpage" really is a much bigger pain than using a reader program. It's not even close.

Re:Pretty much sums it up

[discord5]

Yes... because pointing and clicking through a webpage is such a burden.

9/10 users in a statistical population of a size of 1 user find that clicking a mouse might or might not injure their index finger.

Re:Pretty much sums it up

[Anonymous Coward]

I was kind of surprised that iBooks wasn't showing as highly rated as I thought. For me that is the killer app.

Check out the Stanza ebook reader. It offers a really nice interface to even more collections of free books. If you play an instrument, it also has built-in access to Mutopia, which is really nice.

Survey has built in bias

[Low Ranked Craig]

We aren’t trying to capture a demographically representative sample of all iPad owners and we didn’t normalize the results. The opinions you’re about to read reflect only the experiences of the folks who took our survey–readers of Technologizer and other sites (such as Daring Fireball) that linked to it. Which is fine by us: We were dying to learn what you thought.

Not scientific, not normalized, not statistically meaningful.

Re:Survey has built in bias

[cowscows]

So what? As long as you're upfront about the inherent bias in your sample, there still might be some value in your poll.

Re:Survey has built in bias

[Low Ranked Craig]

True. But a lot of people on this thread are complaining about the app store comments, etc. This is the reason for the app store comments - built in bias due to the pool from which people self-selected to take the poll. This does not tell anything meaningful. People that self-select to take these generally are either very happy and want to tell everyone, or are pissed off and want to tell everyone. I mean, generally, how many anti-Apple people read Daring Fireball on a daily basis?

Good Lord..

[kevinNCSU]

There were are few places

I'm not a stickler for grammar or spelling and God knows I'm terrible at both but is there not even a forced preview for summaries like there is for comments? There is no way you can even quickly proofread that sentence and not stumble trying to string those words together. Get it together editors.

Re:Screw the iPad

[0100010001010011]

Check DealExtreme.

So far the feedback from most forums is that it sucks. Build quality is all over the place. The touch screen is lacking multi-touch. (Different technology). Some people have had theirs die completely after a few days of use. The battery life is horrible compared to the iPad and it's running Android 1.6.

But it is cheap.

Faith based summary

[fermion]

On a tech site like /., I am amazed at how many people will interpret data based on what they want to be true rather than what data and observation indicates is true. In this case well over 40% have no problem with the ITMS approval proces, and another well over 40% think it is only a minor issue. This can hardly be said to a majority having a problem with ITMS, meaning that such an approval process significantly negative impacts there experience. Using the same criteria, a majority of users are not totally satisfied with their purchase, even though only perhaps 25% have any significant dissatisfaction.

There are people are going to be philosophically opposed to the way Apple does business, and for those people they should buy other products. To mislead people into thinking the way you do, as some religious people mislead people into thinking latex condoms provide no protection, is the lowest form of immorality. One's beliefs should not depend on everyone agreeing with you. I have no problem not buying MS products because they are too expensive, and even if 80% of the world disagrees, it does not matter. I don't do it.

Re:Faith based summary

[recoiledsnake]

Lets see.

~41% - Minor problem.
~11% - Major problem.

41+11 = 52% = Majority.

Summary says a majority have a problem with it which seems to be accurate based on the calculations above. Only problem is that you conveniently forgot to mention the 11% having a major problem in your faith based post.

Looks like you're the faith based fanboy in Apple's cult which can believe it can do no wrong. Accusing others of it while being of the Apple faith yourself is rich though.

Re:Faith based summary

[Darkman, Walkin Dude]

There are people are going to be philosophically opposed to the way Apple does business, and for those people they should buy other products. To mislead people into thinking the way you do, as some religious people mislead people into thinking latex condoms provide no protection, is the lowest form of immorality. One's beliefs should not depend on everyone agreeing with you. I have no problem not buying MS products because they are too expensive, and even if 80% of the world disagrees, it does not matter. I don't do it.

Ah no, there are real problems with it though. The guidelines are vague and feedback is sporadic if its there at all. Apple could do a lot better in terms of laying out the ground rules.

Re:Faith based summary

[stewbacca]

Except the summary said the majority "weren't pleased" and "unhappy campers". 41% of people finding a minor problem in something aren't necessarily "unhappy campers" nor are they "not pleased".

12% + 4% = 16% can be labeled as "not pleased", but then there are 41% in the "meh" category and 43% in the no-problem category. 43% is far more than 16%.

Becomming more satisfied...

[aaarrrgggh]

I was about 80-90% satisfied at launch; I could use my bluetooth keyboard from my ancient Palm, take it with me as a laptop substitute when traveling for work or personal, and in a crunch write a report in the notepad app and e-mail it to a co-worker to format and PDF. Now, I'm closer to 95% satisfied after getting a spreadsheet/word processor app and a few other gems.

What I hate is the absurd organization and search capability of the AppStore. Yes, I know about 3rd party tracking/review sites, yes, I am willing to waste hours searching... and ultimately, yes, I am willing to pay $5-10 to try something that may not meet my expectations.

But, I am quickly getting to the point where expensive ($30-80) apps have reviews that state they don't live up to stated functionality, and it is becoming impossible to really experiment with different use-cases.

By far though, I get more satisfaction using the device as a content-creation vehicle rather than a consumption device. Consumption is lost on the ads that cannot be blocked that in turn screw up the page formatting.

(Oh, and it pisses the living sh!t out of me that Slashdot jumps down half a page when you expand a comment!)

Re:Becomming more satisfied...

[Haxzaw]

The Slashdot thing really bothers me, too. It's a shame there's only a handful of Slashdot posters who like the iPad, otherwise it might get fixed.

Re:Becomming more satisfied...

[b0bby]

I get more satisfaction using the device as a content-creation vehicle rather than a consumption device.

The one guy I know who has one actually writes a column for a major newspaper. To his (and my) surprise, he's ended up typing his column on the ipad, using the virtual keyboard, rather than fire up his laptop. He even has a bluetooth keyboard that he hasn't bothered to use with it, since he finds the onscreen one fine. He loves the thing.

Re:Becomming more satisfied...

[E IS mC(Square)]

>> Oh, and it pisses the living sh!t out of me that Slashdot jumps down half a page when you expand a comment!

Oh! The joys of ipad!

Re:Becomming more satisfied...

[foo fighter]

(Oh, and it pisses the living sh!t out of me that Slashdot jumps down half a page when you expand a comment!)

Go to http://slashdot.org/help

Click the "Classic Index" link. Select Use Classic Index, Simple Design, Low Bandwidth, No Icons. Click Save.

Click the "Dynamic Index" link. Select Lowbandwidth [sic], Simple Design, Use Classic Index.

Voila, /. as $deity intended it.

Re:Becomming more satisfied...

[foo fighter]

Shit, forgot to say:

Click the "Discussion" link. Select Slashdot Classic Discussion System. Set Display Mode to Nested, Sort Order to Oldest First, and Threshold and Highlight Threshold to whatever you want (mine is 5: Score +5 and 3: Score +3 respectively). I also recommend selected Hard Thresholds, Reparent Highly Rated Comments, and increasing comment limit, comment byte limit, and index spill to something large like 100, 1024k, 500.

Re:I Can't Get No Satisfaction

[BasilBrush]

unlike the pathetic iPadophiles that actually stand in line to spend their money to a corporation

And what particular non-corporation made device are you surfing the internet with today? CPU was hand-crafted by an artisan was it?

Poor old iPad owners. Fancy buying something and finding some time later that you like 98% of the other buyers are satisfied with it. Must be truly awful. How terrible for them it must be to be so excited about a new piece of technology that they stand in line to buy it. If only they could have spent that time whining on Slashdot instead.

Skewed Question

[Cogneato]

The story pulls a clever choice of data -- "the majority aren't happy with Apple's App Store approval process", when in reality the vast majority (85%ish) of people answered with the two answers that are the most positive towards the app store (Not a problem at all and minor problem). The fact is that the possible answers that they could give were skewed towards the negative:

Not a problem at all
Minor problem
Major problem
Unacceptable

So, your summary basically says that "of the four possible answers, the majority of people picked from three of them", which is not all that impressive of a feat. Suppose the possible answers were instead:

I prefer to have apps reviewed before purchasing or downloading them
I'm neutral on the app store
Minor problem
Major problem
Unacceptable

By adding a positive answer, rather than a slightly above neutral answer, you change the skew of the response. By have a great majority of negative answers, someone who has not completely formed their opinion will be more likely to say, "huh, I had never thought of it before, but since there are so many negative possible answers, there must be a problem."

Happy except for flash and multitasking

[Missing.Matter]

I have an iPad and I'm generally happy with it aside for two things: lack of flash and lack of multitasking. Due to the lack of flash, I always have to carry around a backup laptop to watch flash videos. A lot of my course content is in flash, and I'd rather not tether myself to a computer lab. This supposedly will never be rectified until this content supports HTML5. Secondly, the lack of multitasking is a glaring issue. Working in one app and having to close it out to reply to an IM or email is extremely frustrating. This was apparent within the first few hours of using the device. What's even worse is that very few apps save your state in the way you'd expect when you exit the app. I'm looking forward to iOS 4 fixing this, however. Other than that, there are a few little gripes I have with the device, such as an out of date, intrusive notification system. Also, even with a filtered approval process, the general quality of apps in the appstore is very poor. Apps are usually very poorly designed and not well thought out, or buggy, and finding the gems out there can be difficult.

Re:Happy except for flash and multitasking

[Haxzaw]

For the Flash issue you really need to find another porn site, and stop blaming it on coursework. Some exist that don't require Flash, and I'm sure you'll be just as happy with those.

You'd Like to Be Able to Print an E-Mail?!?!

[RobotRunAmok]

Huh??

What what you do with it then... put it in a beige-colored folder, and file it away alphabetically in that beige-colored file-cabinet atop which you keep your tri-cornered hat?

Re:You'd Like to Be Able to Print an E-Mail?!?!

[jedidiah]

>
> Huh??
>
> What what you do with it then... put it in a beige-colored folder, and file it away alphabetically in
> that beige-colored file-cabinet atop which you keep your tri-cornered hat?
>

1) I keep an electronic printout for my personal records.

2) I use the hardcopy in places I would not want to have an overpriced electronic toy.

Fanboys desperately trying to pretend to be some sort of vanguard are so funny. They're almost cute.

Re:You'd Like to Be Able to Print an E-Mail?!?!

[Anonymous Coward]

Paper has excellent battery life.

Re:You'd Like to Be Able to Print an E-Mail?!?!

[Deosyne]

You won't be scoffing when the world floods and Kevin Costner finds out that you have that precious, precious paper and steals it. But you'll still have that iPad!

Re:You'd Like to Be Able to Print an E-Mail?!?!

[ukyoCE]

1) I keep an electronic printout for my personal records.

An electronic printout? You mean like "print to pdf"?

It reminds me of the story of the patent office (?) printing e-mails then scanning them back in. Or the Arlington Cemetary.

I don't have an iPad, but I do think printing in this day and age is utterly stupid.

(and nonetheless, sometimes necessary)

Re:You'd Like to Be Able to Print an E-Mail?!?!

[Lars T.]

1) I keep an electronic printout for my personal records.

What kind of oxymoron is that? Are you one of the inventors of the "paperless office" by chance?

Early adopters

[psavo]

FFS. These people are _early adopters_. They'll eat shit, thank you and grin happily.

Re:Early adopters

[cowscows]

No kidding. These people couldn't possibly actually be enjoying something. That's unthinkable. They're just playing the role that their great leader Steve demands of them. This iPad crap is just a shiny fad. Just like the iPhone, and the iPod before it. Give it a year, and nobody will even remember these garbage devices, and Apple will continue it's slow sad slide towards irrelevance and bankruptcy.

Re:Early adopters

[Mab_Mass]

FFS. These people are _early adopters_. They'll eat shit, thank you and grin happily.

Then, they'll go out and tell everybody they know that they *love* the iPad. Most likely, all of their friends look to these early adopters for advice on new electronics, etc. By selling to these people and giving them an experience that doesn't suck, Apple is pretty much guaranteed that the product will be a success.

Like it or not, the iPad (and iPad-like devices) are going to be popular.

Re:Early adopters

[stewbacca]

FFS. These people are _early adopters_. They'll eat shit, thank you and grin happily.

So says the guy with the low slashdot id.

Because there is no other choice right now....

[Lumpy]

I tried several of the Android tablets and the makers are churning out utter crap. Low Processor speeds, really out of date Android 1.5 installs, and NOTHING that has the app store.

Your only choice is the iPad until someone puts out a REAL Android tablet with a 1Ghz+ processor, real ram and storage and a current version of the OS.

The majority? Really?

[pbhogan]

"the majority for instance, aren't happy with Apple's App Store approval process" The majority? Really? "Forty-one percent think it’s a minor issue" and 43% don't think it's an issue at all. So 84% barely care or don't. Chances are the 16% who think it's a major/unacceptable problem are irate developers or people who just hate any kind of controlling authority. And actually it looks like they can't count since about 2-3% had no opinion: 84 + 16 + 3 = 103% What I read into this is consumers really don't care about the approval process. Why would they? They have 200,000+ apps and more flooding in every day.

The State of iPad Satisfaction

[drewhk]

The iPads are pretty satisfied.

Re:The State of iPad Satisfaction

[Wovel]

Indeed they love their new owners. The Foxconn plant was scary! Bodies flying everywhere.

Re:You know who else?

[Wovel]

Good sarcasm is timely, relevant, and factual. Yours meets none of those criteria. Oh and usually (but not always funny).

Re:You know who else?

[Bemopolis]

Wait wait wait waitasec...

I thought it was Al Gore who is on the Apple board, not Obama.

It's still too new

[erroneus]

People haven't had time to get tired of them yet. There are lots and lots of cool gadgets in the world and for a wide variety of them, they are cool for a short time. Only a very select few in history have emerged from the pile as "indispensable." Among these are the palm pilot and later the blackberry. iPod is a very risky move because it is significantly larger than things that fit in pockets.

Re:It's still too new

[jayteedee]

> iPod is a very risky move because it is significantly larger than things that fit in pockets.

Wow. You must have hobbit size shirts and pants. I've been able to fit all the different IPods in my pockets so far. Maybe you should try the Nano! :)

Everyone I know loves it

[WillAffleckUW]

Mind you, most of the people that I know who bought the current iPad or are getting the 3G one coming out this fall, or the unlocked Verizon iPad at Christmas are mostly into film.

They like to watch TV and movies on the iPad, read newspapers, share photos on Facebook, and browse web comics.

Because, quite frankly, the iPad is intended for Consumers - not for Geeks.

Re:Everyone I know loves it (app store addendum)

[WillAffleckUW]

I should point out you can get your pr0n and other stuff from bitstream or other sources, pop it onto your Mac Mini or iMac and share the cracked vid or music with your iPad from there. Using the appstore is OPTIONAL.

Re:I Can't Get No Satisfaction

[Wovel]

I am not sure you would find a single iPad buyer who felt they were sticking it to the man. Most of them were buying a consumer electronic device they felt would be useful and after using it for a month or two, they found that it was useful. This annoys the crap out of you because you had some strange unnatural urge to see it fail, so you denigrate all those people. Millions of people have purchased iPads and our happy with them. If you chose to believe it is because they are not as smart as you, they have medications that will help with your delusions.

Re:I Can't Get No Satisfaction

[cowscows]

Yeah, I bought an iPad for two main reasons. One was to make Steve Ballmer cry himself to sleep, and the other was to make me better than my friends. My favorite hobby is to carry the iPad around at parties, show it off, and then explain to my friends how much better I am than them. Occasionally some jerk at the party will try to touch my iPad, and then I have to get all angry and storm out of the party and go home, but then I just get on internet message boards and tell random strangers how much better I am than them.

Best five hundred bucks I ever spent.

Re:I Can't Get No Satisfaction

[muckracer]

> This annoys the crap out of you because you had some strange unnatural urge to see it fail, so you denigrate all those people.
> Millions of people have purchased iPads and our happy with them. If you chose to believe it is because they are not as smart as you,
> they have medications that will help with your delusions.

Wow...what can I say? I LOL'ed :-)

Re:You know who else?

[nschubach]

Well, in a way you are right...

If I spent $400 on something, I'm more inclined to tell people I like it so I don't feel like I wasted my money.

If it was $5, I might be more inclined to tell someone if it really sucked.

Re:I Can't Get No Satisfaction

[Culture20]

No no no, it's "iCantgetnosatisfaction".

Re:You know who else?

[Chris Burke]

I didn't realize the Nazis had concentration camps in Sweden!

But then I googled it, and what do you know, there were!

It doesn't list any in Stockholm though.

Re:I Can't Get No Satisfaction

[BasilBrush]

It's at a point, where the actual technology of the devices has become less relevant than owning said device. Kinda like having a Mercedes mainly for status, not for the actual engineering.

98% satisfaction rating says that the technology of the device is good and is keeping customers happy after purchase. You are the one with the problem, not them. You don't know how good these devices are. Nor why people buy them.

FUD?

[mitchell_pgh]

Slashdot Wrote:

There were are few places where they were critical--the majority for instance, aren't happy with Apple's App Store approval process.

The question asked:

Apple permits distribution of iPad applications only in its Apple Store, and rejects applications for a variety of reasons. What is your opinion of this approach?

The response:
~43% It's not a problem at all
~42% It's a minor problem
~12% It's a major problem
~4% It's unacceptable
~1% No opinion

This question seems incredibly flawed. The "at all" in the question would be a big red flag in my book. There are clear advantages and disadvantages to the App Store, but the fact that so many people (over 80%) said that it was either no issue "at all" or it's a minor issue... says volumes.

Re:FUD?

[stewbacca]

I read it differently. I believe that probably 43% really think there is no problem "at all". That is to be expected from an online survey of enthusiasts. However, they more critical thinkers amongst us, no matter how much we might like the App Store, are more apt to pick "minor problem", which to me infers it's good, but it has flaws (like everything). Therefore, the majority of users aren't unhappy with the App Store.

Even more dubious is the biased wording of the questions. It's just begging for a negative response by introducing "only permits" and "rejects".

Re:Private life

[cowscows]

*yawn* I don't know why you're worried, people like you keep telling everyone how much better Android is and how it's only a matter of months before Apple is eclipsed and irrelevant.

But whatever. If it wasn't for Apple and their iOS, Android would probably still be the same crappy blackberry ripoff that it was when Google bought it, actual useful tablets would still be years away, and the US mobile phone landscape would still totally suck, instead of just mostly sucking like it does now.

Did you actually read it?

[sean.peters]

The conclusion of the article is that people really, really love their iPads for a whole bunch of reasons, and that they're less than completely delighted with a few aspects, one of which was the App store issue (and the biggest single response there was "it's a minor problem"). Anti-Apple article? Not hardly.

iPad satisfaction...

[Bobfrankly1]

One woman was quoted as saying that the iPad fits in her purse, is discreet, and remarkably absorbent. It did drop out a few times, but she found out she was holding it wrong.

Re:iPad satisfaction...

[macaddict]

One woman was quoted as saying that the iPad fits in her purse, is discreet, and remarkably absorbent. It did drop out a few times, but she found out she was holding it wrong.

I know, right? The iPad is so much better than the ThinkPad, which is way too bulky and tends to fail at the most embarrassing times!

android always trailing? how?

[jDeepbeep]

just accept that Android devices will always trail iOS devices

Trail? In what way? If you asked me I would say in popularity and intuitive UI, but I am curious in what way you meant it.

Re:android always trailing? how?

[BasilBrush]

Hardware too. The way Android phones have always trailed the iPhone. Take the current iPhone 4. Significantly higher res screen, better camera, and it has a gyroscope.

Re:android always trailing? how?

[Bing Tsher E]

Whoo! Whoo! A gyroscope.

What for?

Re:android always trailing? how?

[COMON$]

for playing cool games, pretty much the only thing people do on iPhones, the rest of us who actually want to use a phone for anything else use Android.

Re:android always trailing? how?

[BasilBrush]

Firstly for games. Lots of people like to play games on their smartphone. 7 of of 10 of the top apps on the iPhone right now are games. A lot of games use the accelerometer so you can control the game by tilting the device. A gyroscope allows the device to react to a greater number of movements.

Secondly for GPS. The iPhone already has a compass so the display changes as your orientation changes. But a gyroscope reacts faster, which should make for a more responsive UI.

Thirdly for all the many inventive uses that third party app developers will come up with.

FTFA, Flash...

[rickb928]

A user comment:

"The lack of Flash will only really become a problem if Adobe gets it running perfectly and Apple continues to disallow it."

WTF? Not having Flash is only a problem if it would *work*?

Is this further proof of the unique inteligence of Apple fanbois, or just an iPad user's special relativity?

Re:FTFA, Flash...

[cowscows]

No, it's just an explanation of why the whole flash argument (particularly Adobe's constant whining) was so silly. We're just now starting to see usable Flash on any mobile devices. If Flash is so useful on a mobile phone, why hasn't Adobe shown us?

While Apple has presented a number of different reasons why they don't want flash on iOS, one of their main examples is that flash would be a buggy, CPU and battery hog. And people have been saying that about flash since before the iPhone was even announced. If Adobe can show the world that they can write a good flash client for Android or whatever smartphones, then they blow a big hole in Apple's argument. Sure, that might not convince Steve Jobs, but if flash is as important and useful as Adobe says, then eventually consumers will demand it, and Apple will adapt or lose out.

Re:FTFA, Flash...

[rickb928]

"No, it's just an explanation of why the whole flash argument (particularly Adobe's constant whining) was so silly. We're just now starting to see usable Flash on any mobile devices. If Flash is so useful on a mobile phone, why hasn't Adobe shown us?"

Actually, they have, since 2008. And more coming, real soon now. As in 'maybe'. But Adobe is trying.

The value argument for Flash on mobiel devices is the same one for desktop devices. Web pages that use Flash are not useful on mobile devices, and the iPad is a mobile device offering a similar, if not indistinguishable, Web experience like desktop devices. Apple just wants to keep Flash off until it plays nice with iOS, to improve the reputation of iOS.

"While Apple has presented a number of different reasons why they don't want flash on iOS, one of their main examples is that flash would be a buggy, CPU and battery hog."

Describes Flash on my notebook and desktop perfectly, save that my desktop doesn't have a battery. But we tolerate it on those devices, because they have the horsepower and resources to run Flash tolerably.

"if flash is as important and useful as Adobe says, then eventually consumers will demand it, and Apple will adapt or lose out."

Consumers ARE demanding it. So far, it's not a show-stopper for Apple or Android users. Blackberry I dunno.

Re:FTFA, Flash...

[stewbacca]

There's no fanboism in there. They are simply saying, if they got Flash working well on mobile devices AND Apple then STILL rejected it, there'd be a problem.

The inference here (and a rather accepted one, I imagine) is that Flash doesn't work well on mobile devices and that is probably not debatable. That has nothing to do with being an Apple fanboi.

Re:FTFA, Flash...

[cowscows]

Some consumers are demanding it, most don't care. And until Apple starts seeing customers purchasing non-Apple devices because of Flash, then they aren't "demanding" it in a way that matters to Apple.

Re:FTFA, Flash...

[rickb928]

And my point is that Flash doesn't work well on non-mobile devices either.

There is a working flash for iOS, but Apple has denied it by claiming it is too buggy. Are there a few apps for iOS that are also a little buggy? Yep, lots. They don't happen to both be made by Adobe, and offer a way to play a fun game outside of a paid app.

Not just Apple, but the whole iOS economy thrives on a controlled, limited system. Flash games would harm that.

Umm...

[sean.peters]

Because he wants to give the directions to someone (say, to put in an invitation or something)? Wants to be able to refer to the directions while driving, without the distraction of fiddling with his iPad? Needs to mark up a document with pen? Needs to pass the e-mail to someone who doesn't have a mobile computer handy? The peripheral manufacturers of the world still sell a metric buttload of printers - people aren't buying them as art objects. There are all kinds of reasons why people still need paper copies of stuff. This is not a hard concept.

Impulse buying

[kuzb]

I'm betting more than half of the people who bought an ipad will have it on a shelf collecting dust in under 3 months, I'm guessing that's how long it will take for the novelty to wear off. It just has no real niche that isn't already filled by something that does the job better.

Hmmm.

[sean.peters]

I see it every time someone uses an Android phone (myself included): click, click again because it didn't give you immediate feedback or response. Turn the device sideways, wait a couple seconds, flip it back and forth a couple times because the display didn't rotate.

Actually, you're describing my experience with the iPhone pretty well too. Although to be fair, mine's a 3G and I suspect the issue is that it's just too slow - I do plan to upgrade to an iPhone 4, which I suspect will solve the problem. But still, it's not like iDevices are immune to this kind of thing.

iCakes

[Chelloveck]

"We know that the iPad is selling like hotcakes..."

Mmmm.... iCakes, with maple iSyrup... A part of this complete breakfast!

Do you have a dictionary handy?

[sean.peters]

In this case well over 40% have no problem with the ITMS approval proces, and another well over 40% think it is only a minor issue. This can hardly be said to a majority having a problem with ITMS, meaning that such an approval process significantly negative impacts there experience.

I think you need to look up the word "majority". Because quite clearly, a majority of people surveyed DO have a problem with the App Store (not iTMS) approval process. Most of those do think the problem is minor. But that's not the same as "not a problem".

Re:Do you have a dictionary handy?

[stewbacca]

Nowhere does the article say the majority "have a problem" with the App Store. It says the majority are "unhappy", which is wrong and misleading, because that doesn't automatically mean anyone who voted "minor problem" is also "unhappy".

True, a majority of voters voted for "unacceptable, major, or minor" but I think it's fair to bundle "minor" with "no problem at all" in the "happiness" category.

I can't figure out what is hard about this

[sean.peters]

Majority: (n) a number greater than 50% of a population. 41% think it's a minor problem, 16% think it's either a major problem or unacceptable. In other words, 57% think it's a problem to one degree or another. But in your version of math, the 16% don't count because they're only stupid developers, and the 41 percent who think it's a minor problem really meant that it's not a problem at all. How does the rest of the subject of mathematics work on your planet?

Re:I can't figure out what is hard about this

[stewbacca]

MIn other words, 57% think it's a problem to one degree or another.

Except that the article makes the statement that the majority of users are "unhappy", not the majority of users have a problem to one degree or another.

THAT'S what so hard about the "majority" comment. The fact that only 16% of those surveyed have a moderate to severe problem with the store is what makes it NOT a majority of users being unhappy.

Survey: Mac users love Apple istuff

[cenobyte40k]

The survey was mostly Mac only users. Is that because mostly only Mac lovers are buying the ipad or something else? In the end the only meaningful result from this survey is that Apple has fanboys that just repeat talking points back into the phone when answering surveys. This is not to say that the ipad is a good or bad product, just that the survey is worthless.

Re:Survey: Mac users love Apple istuff

[Cyberllama]

You made a valid point, but we do not make points which might, through any stretch of the imagination, be considered criticism of an Apple product or users of Apple products on Slashdot. It simply is not done. The mods were correct to mod you down.

No sir, we do not need your reasonable opinion here. We don't need you to suggest that the iPad may possibly be a "good or bad" product. Come back when you have some irrationally glowing praise without consideration for potential pitfalls.

Re:Yawn

[Anonymous Coward]

Your combination of ignorance and spittle-spewing irrational vitriol makes you a target-rich environment for anyone armed with a bit of logic and a few facts.

>>You have to face it sooner or later... Apple makes its money by being a lifestyle brand, like Levi or American Apparel or Gucci.

Only a /. geek would sneer at "the masses" buying a "lifestyle brand" instead of something that "OMG! Can be rooted, overclocked, and turned into a Beowulf cluster" for the sheer geekiness of it. I'd bet money that you have more than one lifestyle brand product in your house. You just don't like this particular one. There are plenty of reasons why a technically minded person would want a Mac and even an iPad. You've just never bothered to figure out what they are, and if you don't have the drive to educate yourself, don't expect anyone else to do it for you.

>>That's why it has pathetic enterprise support

Apple never claimed to have make the enterprise one of its key markets. The enterprise made a decision two decades ago to go with IBM/Windows and not Apple; that done, why should Apple now spend all its time and money chasing a market segment that made its preferences perfectly clear? Just because they don't support your preferred market niche doesn't somehow make them evil.

>>tries to lock out competition for it's platform

Or, you know, just tries to make a serious effort at keeping trojans, viruses, phishing, badly-written apps that crash incessantly and don't perform as advertised, and all kinds of other nastiness off the platform as a service to its customers? I can't wait to start read all the /. comments that whining about malware screwing up their Android tablets next year.

>>That's why it's a walled garden filled mostly with petty video games.

Ironic, given that most anti-Mac critics often cited the lack of games as a reason why not to buy one. Now iOS has an absurd number of games on par with the Nintendo DS and its suddenly cause for criticism. There's no winning with you people. BTW, more than 50% of the 200,000 iOS apps in the App Store aren't games. But you obviously don't own an iOS device and so can't search the App Store, so I guess you wouldn't know that.

>>It's an appliance for people who don't like the open endedness of computers.

Yes, it's an appliance. Appliances by definition aren't meant to be "open." You really want a cheap, open product from Apple? Buy a Mac Mini and root it to your heart's content. But my guess is that you don't care about openness at the moment so much as you just care about bashing Apple.

>>Apple users skim on the surface of computing.

Except, you know, for the tens (hundreds?) of thousands of Apple developers; or the hundreds of thousands of IT Techs who prefer to use Macs to run their networks. Or these guys:

http://www.apple.com/science/

Clearly, they're a bunch of idiots who can't find a power button without RFTM. Way to overgeneralize there, buddy.

>>The problem is that Apple does not want standards, it wants control.

Yeah, that's why Apple just released it's iOS FaceTime protocol as an open standard. And that's why Apple makes Unix the foundation for both MacOS and iOS. And that's why Apple integrated over a hundred open source projects into the OS. And that's why Apple drives public development of Clang and LLVM and Webkit and...oh, forget it. Just visit this page:

http://www.opensource.apple.com/

Not that I expect you to want to educate yourself on Apple's considerable contributions to open source.

>>It does not want everyone to create art, it wants everyone to buy Final Cut and use it on a Mac Pro to create art.

And Apple does what to stop people from creating art using something other than Macs and iPads? Burns down paintbrush factories? Congratulations, you've officially crossed the line into non-sensical ranting.

There is nothing wrong with Apple wanting people to use th

Waste of time

[ThatsNotPudding]

The Followers of His Steveness who willingly stand outside the crystal cathedrals every eighteen months with huge tithes in hand are not going to discuss any deficiencies, nor even acknowledge they exist.

I am an Owner

[masmullin]

I bought the device to read PDFs. Its fairly good for this purpose (with the app GoodReader).

Web surfing is really good... except there are a LOT of sites that embed some flash videos. CBC.ca does a lot of flash (including streaming the world cup), and so does TSN.ca.

It's not as good as my sony reader for reading "paper back" novels.

Re:I am an Owner

[MisterSquid]

I use iPad primarily for watching videos and reading (longform) PDFs. You owe it to yourself to give iAnnotate PDF a try. It's an amazing program, especially for getting annotations into PDFs that can be transferred to a computer and then used any which way you damn please.

If you use the open-source and free Skim, you'll be VERY pleased

Disclosure: None to speak of. Just a very satisfied end user.

Re:I am an Owner

[masmullin]

$10 is a bit steep for iAnnotate since I am extremely happy with good reader. While having the ability to markup a PDF would be nice, it's not a must have for me.

It's been tried and tested at this point

[SuperKendall]

iPod is a very risky move because it is significantly larger than things that fit in pockets.

But also more useful.

The killer app is actually traveling, where you want something substantially larger than an iPhone but without the bulk of a laptop or need to charge while in transit.

And around the house, they are easier for casual use than a laptop. Basically they do fill a useful niche in computing, and from this peak you can see the place where they replace laptops for a lot of people.

Re:Yawn

[TheKidWho]

He has a low uid, you have to forgive him, he's stuck in his old ways.

Re:What are you talking about?

[VGPowerlord]

A cloud is supposed to be a set of servers. This is set up like any large web application, where you have a number of application and database servers with identical contents, so it doesn't matter which app server the customer is talking to.

However, the important bit that makes cloud computing different is that the servers are usually located in different geographic locations, and customers are routed to the one closest to them.

So, no, "an application running on the Internet" is not necessarily part of cloud computing.

it's a good drawing pad and so stowable...

[kisrael]

Just want to get my two cents in.

I find it great for two tasks:
1. with a stylus and the app ArtStudio (why do so few of the art apps have "flood fill"? They all want to pretend they're "real paint"...ArtStudio is highly recommended by me, btw) it is a better doodle pad than the touchscreen Fujitsu netbooks I had been using.

2. It's so great in a backpack... every laptop I had, I either had to suspend, so it was instant on but the battery was dead 3 days later, or hibernate, and then wait 2 or 3 minutes to boot. This thing stows so well, and when you want to use it is ready to go.

The browser is an annoying throwback to pre-tabbed browsing days and doesn't support the "upload" tag, though I found the "Uploader" app is pretty good.

So that's why I'm happy with the purchase. Netflix streaming is very good on it two... it's weirdly more pleasant to watch "The Office" in bed, snuggled up w/ this and my gf, then it is to bring in my big 18.4 laptop and rest it on us...

Re:Private life

[TheKidWho]

I share your experience, it was definetly annoying in the "old days."

Re:Screw the iPad

[EL_mal0]

Undoing errant mod

Re:You know who else?

[norminator]

It's timely given the tendency in the current political climate to invoke Godwin's Law about any issue which one party or the other disagrees with. I thought it was funny.

Re:I Can't Get No Satisfaction

[radtea]

Most of them were buying a consumer electronic device they felt would be useful and after using it for a month or two, they found that it was useful.

Except that this little moral fable ignores some well-known empirical psychology that Apple uses heavily in their branding. Apple devices, with their sleek aesthetics and sexy image, are appealing for reasons that have nothing to do with their functionality.

People feel good about owning them not (just) becauase they're useful, but because they are envied and admired. People feel good about owning stuff that other people wish they could own too. And people who don't see the value in paying a premium for that denigrate such devices as being overpriced toys.

There's nothing wrong with any of this, but it's important to recognize that this dynamic has nothing to do with what your average TrueGeek would consider the "functional" aspects of the device.

An iPad doesn't do anything (for me) that my netbook won't do (cue people who Just Don't Get It lining up to tell me I'm wrong [yes, there's a pun in there]). But I've seen the way iPaddies show off their new toy, and felt both envy and irritation with them, just like everything we know about the psychology of social factors in success would lead me to expect.

This is the genius of Jobs: his company makes products that are hard to be indifferent to. Everyone wants to own one because they we'd get to be the center of attention too, and this is the primary determinant of satisfaction with consumer electronics products.

Re:Yawn

[VGPowerlord]

Yeah... who's more important to the computer industry? Apple or Intel? Apple or ARM?

Intel, then ARM, then Apple.

Lets face it, as useful as ARM processors are, ARM themselves are fairly useless. They simply license designs that other manufacturers then modify for use in their own devices.

On the other hand, Intel processors are used in the majority of Desktop computers, Notebook computers, and NetBooks.

And which of these companies is more self-righteous about their existence?

Apple, hands down.

You have to face it sooner or later... Apple makes its money by being a lifestyle brand, like Levi or American Apparel or Gucci. That's why it has pathetic enterprise support and tries to lock out competition for it's platform. That's why it's a walled garden filled mostly with petty video games. It's an appliance for people who don't like the open endedness of computers. Just like a Starbucks customer that loves lattes but would never take the ten minutes to learn how to make one for themselves, Apple users skim on the surface of computing. And this isn't necessarily a bad thing.

This is unfortunate, but true.

My father bought a MacBook two years ago. I couldn't convince him back then it was a bad idea; he has a LOT of Windows apps and games. To this day (2 years later), he uses his slowly dying 8-year old Dell notebook more than his MacBook because he has apps on the Dell that don't run under OSX, and he doesn't want to use Bootcamp, Parallels, or VMWare Fusion to run Windows on his MacBook.

Now, both my father and mother are looking at the iPad. I managed to keep my mother from buying my father an iPad for his birthday, but only on the argument that first-generation Apple products generally suck. Neither her or my father understand why the App Store controlling access to the apps you can put on it is bad. I swear that the only thing that's selling my mom on it is the Maps application... and for that, she's willing to shell out (at least) $499?

The problem is that Apple does not want standards, it wants control. It does not want everyone to create art, it wants everyone to buy Final Cut and use it on a Mac Pro to create art. Inherent in it's culture is a fundamental undermining of it's own principles. There is nothing magical or revolutionary about selling vendor lock-in, but I'll give them that their marketing department does a much better job of disguising that than Microsoft did.

And this is why, despite the other 4* browser vendors pledging support for WebM, it still won't become the standard web <video> format; Apple will still refuse to support it.

*In an interview, the Director of IE product management, Roger Capriotti, said IE9 would play WebM video if the WebM codec is installed on the system.

Re:Private life

[mini me]

Why isn't the Android tablet here now? The Apple Tablet was already being talked about in 2004, if not before. The Apple Tablet was unofficially announced in 2007. It is not like it was a huge surprise. Android could have easily beaten Apple to the punch on this one, and yet, we still have to wait.

Re:Screw the iPad

[Anonymous Coward]

This is only going to get worst. Apple should really take advantage of their piles of cash right now and bring manufacturing back to good'old America.

P.S.: Steve, remember that it's cheaper to manufacture things in Canada than in the USA. ;)

Re:I Can't Get No Satisfaction

[Slutticus]

I wish I had mod points. This would be my first one. +1

Re:Yawn

[DdJ]

*In an interview [theregister.co.uk], the Director of IE product management, Roger Capriotti, said IE9 would play WebM video if the WebM codec is installed on the system.

Just FYI, so will Safari on MacOS. My copy plays HTML5-embedded Theora and Vorbis files right now. You just have to install the codecs. The browser uses whatever the layers underneath it support.

It won't play on the iPad or iPhone because there's no way to install the codecs at the OS level on those devices. Know what? The same's going to be true of "windows phone 7". On the desktop, IE9 and Safari will both play WebM just fine if the user installs the codecs. On the handheld, there isn't likely to be a way to install 'em. Same exact behavior.

Re:I Can't Get No Satisfaction

[jo_ham]

So your argument is that it's impossible for a device to be functional if it is also beautiful?

Why are the two things mutually exclusive?

Re:I Can't Get No Satisfaction

[H0p313ss]

Millions of people have purchased iPads and our happy with them. If you chose to believe it is because they are not as smart as you, they have medications that will help with your delusions.

I am one of those happy millions. I am also a computer scientist, a professional software developer, a gamer and a long time Linux enthusiast. I like to think that the emotional iPad deniers are not a smart as me! Can you recommend any good meds for my condition?

Re:really? Really???? Are you serious?

[Cyberllama]

The article in question is extremely positive of Apple, but you hear one word that there might have a been a tiny issue for a percentage of buyers on which they were less than satisfied and immediately conclude this must be some sort of "anti-apple article" (cause there's so many of those, right -- journalists and bloggers just hate Apple) with the caveat that "Oh, I didn't actaully read it, I just lept to a wild conclusion with no supporting evidence."

You might want to re-evaluate your methods for ferreting out anti-apple bias (if such a twisted Unicorn can even be found) in the news.

Re:I Can't Get No Satisfaction

[Slutticus]

Except that this little moral fable ignores some well-known empirical psychology that Apple uses heavily in their branding. Apple devices, with their sleek aesthetics and sexy image, are appealing for reasons that have nothing to do with their functionality.

Nothing do to with functionality? The touch screen is the functionality (for me). I would like to be able to navigate web pages and maps without using a keyboard or mouse. Find me touch device as smooth and refined as the iPad. And I'm not all about the aesthetics of the device itself, I like the aesthetics of the GUI and how smooth it is.

People feel good about owning them not (just) becauase they're useful, but because they are envied and admired. People feel good about owning stuff that other people wish they could own too. And people who don't see the value in paying a premium for that denigrate such devices as being overpriced toys.

Everyone I see around me has one of these things. Their grandmothers have one too. If I wanted to be "cool", I would complain about how un-cool it is to have one of these overpriced toys.

There's nothing wrong with any of this, but it's important to recognize that this dynamic has nothing to do with what your average TrueGeek would consider the "functional" aspects of the device.

I've been dying to get my very own LCARS device for 20 years. If that doesn't make me a "TrueGeek" then nothing does.

An iPad doesn't do anything (for me) that my netbook won't do (cue people who Just Don't Get It lining up to tell me I'm wrong [yes, there's a pun in there]). But I've seen the way iPaddies show off their new toy, and felt both envy and irritation with them, just like everything we know about the psychology of social factors in success would lead me to expect.

Great. It doesn't do anything for you. Why not leave it at that? Why make generalizations about the people who own this device?

This is the genius of Jobs: his company makes products that are hard to be indifferent to. Everyone wants to own one because they we'd get to be the center of attention too, and this is the primary determinant of satisfaction with consumer electronics products.

See above

Re:Yawn

[copponex]

Only a /. geek would sneer at "the masses" buying a "lifestyle brand" instead of something that "OMG! Can be rooted, overclocked, and turned into a Beowulf cluster" for the sheer geekiness of it.

Steve thinks it's a crime for you do to that to his hardware. You should probably reconsider breaking the law - you are under the misapprehension that you own your hardware. Your hardware owns you.

I'd bet money that you have more than one lifestyle brand product in your house. You just don't like this particular one.

You're wrong on both counts. I own a MacBook Pro (triple booting), since it's the only legal way I can run Snow Leopard, which I need for work. Otherwise, I rent a small room in a house, so I don't have that much stuff. Property ownership is an unimpressive way to spend money, in my opinion.

Ironic, given that most anti-Mac critics often cited the lack of games as a reason why not to buy one.

No, they cite the horrific performance of 3D applications. Which is still a problem, even made worse by the 10.6.4 update. The same type of people complain about the antenna design flaws in their flagship phone, or the comic number of dropped phone calls on their network. I don't care if you're playing Fruit Ninja or the birds game. It's no worse use of your time than Solitaire.

Clearly, they're a bunch of idiots who can't find a power button without RFTM. Way to overgeneralize there, buddy.

You may wish to re-read that statement and apply it to your own rhetoric.

And that's why Apple integrated over a hundred open source projects into the OS.

Embrace. Extend. Extinguish. But, this time the commercials are bad ass!

And Apple does what to stop people from creating art using something other than Macs and iPads? Burns down paintbrush factories? Congratulations, you've officially crossed the line into non-sensical ranting.

There is nothing wrong with Apple wanting people to use their products for creative purposes as long as they don't actively prevent people from using other tools for creative purposes, which they don't. If you care enough to be educated a bit on Apple's views on creativity, check this out:

Does Final Cut Pro use an open format? Does iWork? Does Logic? I understand your loyalty to the brand can cloud your vision, but think about that for a second. Apple purposefully shut down development of Logic for Windows so it's users would buy Macs.

It's not that Apple is particularly evil, but they have blind followers touting their exceptionalism when they are no different from any other corporation.

It's something you won't understand until Steve announces that iOS 5 will run on all Mac hardware. The specs will be open, but none of the file formats will be. Once you have your data in an iApp, it's going to stay there. You'll have to apply for a special license to compile your own apps, because Steve wants to protect you from yourself.

He's going to tell you that since this is an appliance and not a computer, you have no right to user upgradeable parts. Steve doesn't want you messing up your appliance with second rate, third party hardware upgrades. And you don't want to void your warranty. (Trust me on this... "logic board" replacements are $600 for Mac Pros.)

But won't worry. The user experience will be incredible. Journalists will fall over themselves talking about how their life has changed, now that Farmville has 6 axis motion control, and there's now a way to get food recipes electronically!

It's a serious and brave new world.

Self-serving description much?

[manekineko2]

That's sure a self-serving post that's been rating Informative.

Each time the iPhone has changed its hardware "it's been way ahead of any Android devices"?

You point to the resolution of the display and the better camera, and the gyroscope. Those are pretty arbitrary criteria.

I say 4G data connection and a bigger, MUCH more vibrant screen are way more important than the criteria you named, does that now make Android devices "way ahead of" the iPhone hardware?

Or are those not as important as the factors you named?

Heck, let's play the game your way, and just go back one year, to the iPhone 3GS. At that point, it had an inferior resolution display to what was available on Android, it had an inferior camera to the best available on android. So that would make Android devices "way ahead of" the iPhone 3GS when it came out right? Or were a different set of arbitrary characteristics the most important back then?

There are times when one piece of hardware is significantly better than another. Right now, neither the Android nor the iPhone camp is able to claim being the clear cut winner of hardware.

Re:Self-serving description much?

[tiptone]

Right now, neither the Android nor the iPhone camp is able to claim being the clear cut winner of hardware.

Instead of "Right now", that should be "forever", and the same can be said for software. There is no "better" in the general sense. Better for your needs? Sure. Better for my needs? Absolutely. But there is no, and will be no, just better.

Just pick what works best for you and stop trying to convince everyone else it's the best for them.

P.S. Not you parent, but "you" in the general sense.

Very Satisfied

[Anonymous Coward]

It's also very easy to steal for the following reasons:

1) it's lightweight, so I can run easily after snatching one.
2) people who buy iPad don't try to run after me, since they are of the nerd types (no muscle at all).
3) it's easy to resell, since everybody wants one.

All in all, I'm a happy customer.

Re:You know who else?

[Chris Burke]

It was a really stupid joke, so I'll take the blame for this "whoosh".

Re:I Can't Get No Satisfaction

[stewbacca]

Apple devices, with their sleek aesthetics and sexy image, are appealing for reasons that have nothing to do with their functionality.

Sleek aesthetics and functionality are not mutually exclusive. Once everyone other than Apple figures that out, Apple might have some competition.

...because they are envied and admired. People feel good about owning stuff that other people wish they could own too.

Insecure people do that. And insecure people project about why they think people buy Apple products.

But I've seen the way iPaddies show off their new toy, and felt both envy and irritation with them

See, just like that.

Re:I Can't Get No Satisfaction

[SilverJets]

The cultish lock-in is a result of Apple being first to the market place with devices that work. When there are more devices from more manufacturers (include Microsoft) consumers will be able to choose. As it stands today though if you want a handheld pad / slate / tablet device the iPad is the only one in the game right now. Note I wrote "handheld". I don't consider 15 inch and 17 inch tablet-laptops as handheld.

The survey fails to consider one glaring issue

[RandomPsychology]

The problem with this survey is that it takes into account only the opinions of *early adopters.* Most of those are almost assuredly Apple fanbois who are willing to praise anything the company releases, no matter how good, bad, or flawed (uh...iPhone 4 anyone??). Reporting that Steve Jobs is happy with Apple would be more news than is this survey...

Re:I Can't Get No Satisfaction

[david_thornley]

One problem is that people have different definitions of "functional".

Lots of us here on /. consider something functional if we can Google around to find out how to edit the .rc file so we can run it from the command line. Most people don't consider anything that requires that functional - they want an easy-to-learn GUI that works out of the box, or immediately after a simple GUI-driven installation process.

Apple can make a computer-based system my mother can use. I'm positive she could learn to use an iPad. I'm equally positive she couldn't figure out how to do the same things on your netbook. Therefore, for Mom, an iPad would be far more functional than your netbook.

The main reason iPad owners like to show off is the neat things they can do with ease. The distinguishing thing about the iPad is functionality - the functionality Mom can use.

I sold my iPad

[ap0]

I liked it, but it wasn't for me. Not yet, at least. The software's not there. I got an iPhone 4 and realized how much the iPad needs some serious improvements. I use IM a lot, and typing on it is a bitch, not to mention the fact that you can't multitask with it yet (switching back and forth is just a big waste of time for me). It's also a little too heavy to hold sometimes. I liked reading on it, but I don't read enough to justify owning it. Maybe the second gen will have better hardware and updated software so it'll compete. As it stands, though, I was using my laptop and iPhone waaaay more than the pad. If I traveled more, or read more, or wasn't a multitasking computer nerd, it would have been great. As it stands, it's not yet ready for me.

Re:I Can't Get No Satisfaction

[geekoid]

Everyone I know that got one because it was a good shiny.

But yeas, after a month or two that had made up some reason and then convinced themselves that's why they bought it.

I have no urge to see it fail, but I have just watch/heard/ and read so much crap about it.

Usually along these lines:
"I can't see what Anyone will do with it, but I'll get it"
"It doesn't have [X,Y,Z] that I wanted it for, but it's great"

Post purchase dissonance.

I was looking forward to an Apple Tablet, but to me this was a complete wimp out.
This should have had facetime. It should have been 1080p, and the ebook reader is pretty sloppy. But I did not make up excuses to get one and then post hoc justify my reasoning by treating people who don't have one with disdain.

Re:I Can't Get No Satisfaction

[geekoid]

"but because they are envied and admired"

because they are unique, just like the million of other using the exact same device.

heh

I can clime a water tower with some chocolate, and radio, and a rifle. It would be a pretty poor way to garner attention.

Re:I Can't Get No Satisfaction

[geekoid]

hahaha. don't fall for that.

A large majority of people will 'love' there new device no matter how crappy it is for months after purchase.

That survey is worthless for any real positive meaning.

Had it been below 90% this soon after release, now THAT would have been telling.

This goes for all products. The more expensive, the longer the dissonance remains.

If they are getting 98% in new surveys a year from now, then your point will be a lot more valid.

In a futile attempt to keep the non thinkers from posting a flaming response:
this is NOT about the iPad. My statement applies to ALL products.

Tabbed browsing

[Hebetsubeach]

You don't have to use Safari to browse the web on the iPad. iCab Mobile is a browser you can get for the iPad from Apple's App store and it has tabbed browsing. There are other browsers for the iPad that support tabbed browsing too. I don't know why Safari for the iPad doesn't.

Re:I Can't Get No Satisfaction

[aabernathy]

People feel good about owning stuff that other people wish they could own too. And people who don't see the value in paying a premium for that denigrate such devices as being overpriced toys.

There's nothing wrong with any of this, but it's important to recognize that this dynamic has nothing to do with what your average TrueGeek would consider the "functional" aspects of the device.

Well sure, the average true geek would realize that the appeal of the iPad is primarily... the appeal of the iPad. I happen to find the iPad hugely functional and am glad I rarely need carry around a laptop anymore, but of course I'm no true geek.

Re:I Can't Get No Satisfaction

[A Friendly Troll]

This is the genius of Jobs: his company makes products that are hard to be indifferent to. Everyone wants to own one because they we'd get to be the center of attention too, and this is the primary determinant of satisfaction with consumer electronics products.

I don't.

What would I do with it?

Love it

[Dalroth]

I love my iPad. I would have never bought one if my boss hadn't offered to buy one for all of us, but now that I have it you can't pry it out of my hands.

Not everything is perfect. I really wish it had 2GB of RAM so I could switch between a few Safari tabs without having to constantly reload them, I wish it had a matte screen, I wish I could dim the screen even more at night, and I wish it had a front facing camera, but these are all problems I can live with or work around for now.

I will most likely buy the next version assuming they improve on some of these issues.

Great around the office

[Wraithlyn]

I admit I originally bought an iPad as little more than an expensive toy, figured I'd just have it sitting on the coffee table at home for casual surfing, email, etc.

But you know what? I'm finding it a wonderful device to have around the office. Being able to combine typing and freeform sketching on something with the same form factor as a pad of paper is great for taking notes, without "separating" you from other people by having a laptop screen in the way. iThoughts is fantastic for brainstorming and more structured note-taking. I can pull up a design flat, walk over to a designer, ask some questions, and scribble notes or sketch right on top of the design. Just as good as a full colour printer and a box of crayons. ;)

And where it really kills? Meetings. The other day someone asked a question about our new site's stats, so I pulled up a table of figures in Google Analytics and passed it around the meeting, just like a piece of paper. Try THAT with a laptop.

Can it replace a laptop or desktop for doing real work? Hell no. But I'm finding it invaluable for many things that have traditionally been the domain of paper & printouts. It's becoming my new "back of the napkin". When lying flat on a table it becomes far more of a shared, group experience than a laptop can ever be. No more huddling around one person's screen, everyone can see it, and even interact with it, at the same time.

Note that most of these points relate to the tablet form factor in general, not just the iPad.

Big O for the iPad?

[wrencherd]

Sure, the users are satisfied, but what the iPad and its needs?

Re:Big O for the iPad?

[wrencherd]

Sure, the users are satisfied, but what the iPad and its needs?

Whoops, that should read:

" . . . but what about the iPad and its needs?"

Not nearly as humorous when you have to re-edit.

not a tablet

[yyxx]

Neither the Dell Mini 5 nor the Archos are really tablets; their 800x480 screens are the same as high end phones, and 5" isn't substantially larger than phone screens.

When people talk about "tablets", I think they generally think of 9" or larger screens with a resolution of at least 1024x768.

The geek walls himself in

[westlake]

Don't survey a subset of the users and then generalize that to all users. It's inherently unfair.

It's not a survey at all - but just another meaningless on-line poll:

We aren't trying to capture a demographically representative sample of all iPad owners and we didn't normalize the results. The opinions you're about to read reflect only the experiences of the folks who took our survey-readers of Technologizer and other sites (such as Daring Fireball) that linked to it. The State of iPad Satisfaction

Re:Yawn

[copponex]

I think Slashdotters aren't in any position to know what Steve really wants. But given that Apple has never come out with any kind of public statement even remotely resembling what you just said, then I suspect that Steve doesn't care what you do with the hardware once you buy it.

I know you don't read much, but really...

http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/02/apple-says-jailbreaking-illegal

As for the DMCA violation, Apple casts its lot with the likes of laser printer makers and garage door opener companies who argue that the DMCA entitles them to block interoperability with anything that hasn't been approved in advance. Apple justifies this by claiming that opening the iPhone to independently created applications will compromise safety, security, reliability, and swing the doors wide for those who want to run pirated software.

In the interest of combating piracy - and taking a 30% cut of software sales - Apple will continue to close it's ecosystem, and shove iAd further and further down your throat.

Owning a Mac that was apparently forced on you because you "need it for work" hardly gives you a pass to criticize people who bought Macs because they actually like them.

Sure it does. I can criticize anyone for anything. Just like someone who needs a car to work can recognize that our transportation infrastructure is unsustainable. Thinking critically is totally awesome. You should try it sometime.

3-D performance has been a distinctly secondary concern--why worry about 3D performance when there are no real games that even stress the graphics cards?

Some people use computers for architecture, 3d modeling, and things besides games. Like anyone who wants to use Revit, AutoCAD, Inventor, CATIA...

And for that criticism to be valid, you'd have to go after every other company that has an app with a closed file format.

Yes, everyone sucks for doing it. Again, Apple isn't inherently evil. They are just exactly the same as Microsoft. You just don't think so because you have been glazed over with too much marketing.

What Apple has done with those programs is hardly unique

Actually, it is. Does HP release programs that require an HP computer? How about Microsoft, do they require anything besides compatible software? Apple is alone in legally chaining their operating system to their hardware, and their software to their operating system.

As far as fully open file formats, no one offers that except for the ODF in OpenOffice. It's not an option for export with any Apple program.

See, when I predicted the iPhone I was hopeful it would be a really cool product. And it was - I bought a 3G when my old phone died. But Apple has locked it down more and more with each update. They're getting ready to transition iOS to all of their hardware. (Here's a rumor right here. I sort of doubt it will happen that quickly, but it's going to over the next year.) And since I need a phone for phone calls, iPhone 4 is off the table. Apple will again learn the lesson that they did in the 90s: closed ecosystems don't work for computers (appliances may be another story). But you're going to have to suffer with iOS on your desktop before they relearn that lesson.

Don't sweat it, though. Things will be exactly as you like them. Steve will tell you what you're allowed to do with your computer, you'll consider it revolutionary, and you will line up to pay a 30% premium for your lifestyle computing product. You can then sit proudly in your local coffeeshop, smiling quietly to yourself as you read /. with the correct logo on the backside of your screen.

Google Analytics

[snowwrestler]

Doesn't Google Analytics make heavy use of Flash? Last time I looked at it on an iPod Touch, the graphs were not viewable.

Re:Google Analytics

[giuda]

PWND!! :D

Re:Google Analytics

[Wraithlyn]

Yes, that's why I was careful to qualify it by saying "table of figures". ;)

Re:I Can't Get No Satisfaction

[stewbacca]

How do you know somebody bought a Mercedes for the status and not the engineering? How do you know somebody bought an iProduct for the "status"? How can something that costs a couple hundred dollars provide "status" in the first place?

This is the fatal flaw with most anti-Apple logic on slashdot. Let's stick to what is bad about the products and not what you think about the customers.

Re:Yawn

[TheKidWho]

It's OK dude, while everyone else is busy being a sheep you'll be the last free thinking man left on Earth, then you can truly feel smug.

Re: Bully run on Apple stock

[Thuo]

Of course, Apple is the new kid on the block(tech stocks).

Re:I Can't Get No Satisfaction

[BasilBrush]

A large majority of people will 'love' there new device no matter how crappy it is for months after purchase. ...In a futile attempt to keep the non thinkers from posting a flaming response:
this is NOT about the iPad. My statement applies to ALL products.

Your statement might apply to all products. But it is completely wrong. See this customer satisfaction survey for people buying a smartphone within the last 6 months for example:

http://macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/25465/

Re:Screw the iPad

[Coren22]

A comment suggesting a possible competitor for the iPad on an article about the iPad. How is this offtopic?

Currently 30% Insightful 50% Offtopic and 20% Flaimbait. Did someone release the Apple drones again?

Re:Yawn

[copponex]

I know you don't much about the law but Apple really doesn't care if you jailbreak your iPhone/iPad. I've talked to Apple guys in the company. *They don't care*.

That's why they paid a lawyer to file this which states in part:

In sum, the value of the iPhone, and hence the software embedded in it, is substantially diminished when the integrity and functionality of that software is compromised by jailbreaking, when Apple is left to deal with the problems that ensue, and when the positive feedback loops enabled by the App Store and the iPhone Developer Program are compromised.

This means they may not sue right now for PR reasons, but the door is wide open if they feel threatened. If you prefer to buy hardware that opens you up to lawsuits if you decide to install your own software, that's fine.

And trust me, it will be a cold day in hell before I need help from a "Genius". Just pull up a terminal in front of one of those haircuts. Their eyes will glaze over and ask of you're a "hacker."

And, BTW, iAd hasn't even gone live yet; so it's not being shoved down anybody's throat. And when it does go live, it certainly won't be any more offensive that those Google ads I have to see every time I run a search.

It's July 1st. iAd is live, or is supposed to be anyway.

Criticizing "anyone for anything" doesn't make you smart. It just makes you a jerk.

Aww boo.

You're now trying to change the topic...

No, you lost the argument, so you're trying to change the topic.

Skipping the distasteful amount of brand apology...

Which just goes to show that you don't understand Apple's approach....

I'm fully aware of Apple's totalitarian business model.

And how the heck do you not "chain your software to your operating system."

There are many programs available for more than one operating system. Apple is unique in chaining their operating system to their hardware, and they have a history of picking up small software companies, and ending Windows development if they can. If Microsoft did that to a popular apple product, you'd cry about anti-competitive business practices.

But I get it. Really. Whatever Apple does, you're on board. The brand is all that matters to you. That was my point in the first place.

Re:Yawn

[copponex]

Actually, I'll only feel smug when I mock someone who wasn't a sheep for being afraid of being a sheep.

Re:Yawn

[TheKidWho]

I'll tell you this much, it feels good.

Re:Yawn

[copponex]

That's what she said.

Re:Screw the iPad

[steeviant]

I agree, if there's one guarantee of success, it's manufacturing in the USA. They could ask Chrysler for advice, or maybe General Motors. After all they are clear price and technology leaders by virtue of manufacturing in God's-own blessed-bastion-of-freedom-and-righteousness.

Re:I Can't Get No Satisfaction

[radtea]

Sleek aesthetics and functionality are not mutually exclusive.

Of course they aren't. That's why I specifically indicated "what a TrueGeek might think of as functionality". Reading comprehension: not just for English majors any more!

Your deep psychological insights are pretty much in line with the rest of your grasp of my thoughts on how functional the iPad is. Please feel free to go on ignoring well-known empirical phenomena.

I might make a crack here about how the kind of people who buy Apple products are just the sort to think they're "special" and not at all motivated by the things that motivate everyone else, except that would be stupid, as I have no evidence that you're someone who has purchased an Apple product.

Re:I Can't Get No Satisfaction

[radtea]

One problem is that people have different definitions of "functional".

Indeed, that is exactly why I specifically said I was talking about what a "TrueGeek" might consider functional.

Re:I Can't Get No Satisfaction

[radtea]

So your argument is that it's impossible for a device to be functional if it is also beautiful?

Nope. My argument has nothing to do with that at all, and no where do I say anything anyone could reasonably use to infer that is my argument.

I wonder why you think I wrote that people like owning them "not (just) because they're useful" if you think I am arguing that a thing can't be both functional and beautiful.

Re:I Can't Get No Satisfaction

[radtea]

Why make generalizations about the people who own this device?

I'm not making generalizations about people who own this device: I'm pointing out how a well-known and empirically validated psychological phenomenon has been used by Apple to market this device, and how well that works.

I find it amusing that although I've said that the iPad is a useful device the people replying to me are all acting like I've said it's not, almost as if people's perceptions of them and the device they (presumably but not provably) have bought is as important as the utility of the device to them, which was pretty much my point.