Slashdot Mirror
'Bloatware' Becoming a Problem On Android Phones
elrous0 writes "According to a recent article in Wired, consumers of many new Android devices (including Samsung's Vibrant and HTC's EVO) are complaining about the increasing presence of something that has plagued consumer PC's for years: Bloatware (or, to use the more kind euphemism, 'Pre-installed software' that the computer manufacturer gets paid to include on a new PC). Unfortunately the bloatware (aka 'crapware') that comes with these phones has a nasty quality not found on even the most bloated PC: it can't be removed. Many angry consumers have begun to complain openly about this disturbing trend."
NASCAR!!!!! Argh!
Guess that'll teach ya to buy GSM only and direct from the manufacturer.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
I always thought pre-installed crap was called "shovelware." As in, it's shoveled on there not for functionality's sake, but so some programmer can get a bonus.
There's no -1 for "I don't get it."
I thought android was the "Open" one...
Crapware is stuff that is installed by the device manufacturer, usually in exchange for money (although in Android's case possibly so Google can get advertising money later), which is not required by the user and consumes resources. Bloatware is software that does something useful, but does so in a very inefficient way, typically including a large number of superfluous features. They are not the same thing.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
Economists:
Is this an issue that the free market should settle (i.e. If you don't want bloatware, research your phone and reward another company with your funds)?
Is this an issue that regulation should settle (something about property rights? selling what some would call a defective product? fraud?)
Discuss.
Root the phone and remove that garbage.
The horrible thing about Android is that phone makers can do anything they want with it.
“It’s different from phone to phone and operator to operator,” says Keith Nowak, spokesman for HTC. “But in general, the apps are put there to meet the operator’s business and revenue needs.”
Nowak must be new to PR. He was supposed to spin it as "free apps, everybody wins!" But instead he handed out a healthy dosage of the truth. Enjoy it, it rarely happens.
My work here is dung.
Every phone I've ever had (except my G1) has had bloatware on it, if it could run custom apps. My razor had some demo games. My Sony had some demo games. And no, you couldn't delete them.
The G1 is an exception only because Android was so new at the time is my assumption.
The news here isn't that Android phones have bloatware... It's that they were previously unlike the other phones in this respect, and now they aren't. Not a real Big surprise. It's not like it even takes up phone memory... They're in the firmware, like all the other built-in apps.
"If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM
Unfortunately the bloatware (aka 'crapware') that comes with these phones has a nasty quality not found on even the most bloated PC: it can't be removed.
Not true. On a rooted phone it's as simple as "adb uninstall".
Of course some users are not technically inclined enough to root their phones, but as it stands the statement is blatantly false.
Guess that'll teach ya to buy GSM only and direct from the manufacturer.
Too bad for people who live or work in a part of the United States where T-Mobile doesn't have a reliable signal. Verizon and Sprint are CDMA2000, and unlike T-Mobile's "Even More Plus", AT&T doesn't appear to offer a discount on the plan for bringing your own phone.
Even though Android is a smartphone platform, it will ultimately be the carriers' and manufacturers' successor to the J2ME and BREW platforms. Android is merely inheriting practices that have evolved over the last 8 years or so. My Palm Pre also has unremovable bloatware. (unless you root the device) It's not going to go away anytime soon.
Charisma is the measure of someone's ability to lie with a straight face.
Apple doesn't install said Fart apps. rather the end users choose to. Not so with bloatware...
I had to reimage my father's PC, a 2005 Dell, using the built-in system restore feature. Now he has AOL and Norton that is seriously out of date!!! This stuff never dies. It took another 30 minutes for me to remove all the crap and put on newer versions of other crap.
Even custom ROMs suffer from this a bit. Whatever the author of the ROM thinks is a good application your stuck with. The only way I've been able to get a slim down ROM from my Droid is by downloading a ROM and customizing it myself.
Shovelware, Bloatware, Crapware, pre-installed software, Windows Vista,
they're all interchangable really.
Well the Droid X is pretty much unflashable with non Moto roms. There are other phones that still haven't been rooted. Relying on back doors to solve problems with front doors only works as long as the back door exists.
Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
Bloatware is when the user bought a fart app, which also queefs.
Providers are installing Windows Vista on Android phones? The performance must be horrible.
(+1, Disagree)
I think Android is great but this really sucks.
In theory 'Preloaded' applications on an Android phone would not be that bad. Uninstalling apps on Android is simple and doesn't leave much of a trace - compared to preloaded apps on Windows this is much easier to deal with.
But 'preloaded' apps that you can't uninstall is a deal breaker.
What we need is a premium brand for Android phones. A brand where we pay a bit more to get something without the preloaded apps, with no shortcuts taken on the hardware, and with fast updates to
new versions of Android.
I was hoping that the Nexus line were going to be that, but I guess that is not to be.
I had emailed verizion cust support about the apps they preinstall. They said they could not help me with removing them. Rooting is an option I am looking in to. -- I never did give them hell. I just told the truth, and they thought it was hell - Harry S Truma
this stuff installed assume just sits there till someone uses it. unless its used i dont see how it slows the phone down. with bloatware on windows most of the shiat is running in background processes like av, scanners, free firewalls etc etc. not exactly the same and not as bad either.
Google's open approach here would have been ideal, if only they had marketed the Nexus One better. I would totally have bought a Nexus Two, but now they're out of the game. Too bad. I hope HTC tries a direct to consumer model at some point too.
We're all going to suffer awhile longer before this crapware problem gets resolved.
Higher Logics: where programming meets science.
Here is a better idea, don't buy phones like the droid X.
It is exactly for reasons like this we should support truly open platforms for mobiles instead of "open" like android. I am really happy with my N900 and I hope MeeGo will be a huge success.
This applies to most phones sold by carriers. Prior to purchasing my Nexus One I had a Blackberry (and the one before it) Both had lots of T-Mobile crap on them that I never used. The good thing about Blackberry though is it allowed me to "hide" any apps I didn't want to see.
I suppose in Android I just wouldn't put them on any of my multiple desktops and just leave them in the main app list. (if thats possible on those phones)
The bloatware is Sprint's doing on the HTC EVO... has nothing to do with Android.
This is a really good point. When you're buying a phone from a Wireless provider, you're buying the phone "as is" with whatever features (software) the provider adds to it, whether they add value or not. The reasons you can't uninstall them may include:
1. Features may be required to enure the carrier can deliver all the services they promised (e.g. Sprint's free GPS app)
2. Features to fulfill contractual obligations (e.g. "you agree to provide a copy of Amazon music store on each device you sell.")
3. Features that support internal promotional interests (e.g. the infamous Sprint NASCAR app)
If you know about these things before you buy the phone, and know you will not be able to remove them, then it's not a problem. This so-called "bloatware" is only a problem for people who don't understand that these things are, essentially, part of the phone. It's part of what you paid for when you bought the phone from Sprint (or AT&T, or Verizon, etc.)
some android based phones(droidX) will only load signed roms. So you need to root the rom and use adb to delete apps.
All of the above was encrypted with a Quad ROT-13 method. Unauthorized decryption is in violation of the DMCA.
My problem with this is security. Every single one of those pre-installed applications have bugs in them that could be exploited by malware. For me, that's what makes it so irritating. An app, that I don't want, is taking up space, and makes my data less secure.
It's sad how the open platform gets saddled with crap you can't remove and the closed platform (iPhone) is kept clean by a CEO who gives a shit about aesthetics and user experience.
But since rooting it I love it so much I think I could almost match the toolerosity of apple fanboi.
Another reason I am happy I bought an N900. I can uninstall anything, including OOPS! programs that make my phone work.
Seriously however, to uninstall the important stuff you have to drop to a shell and know what you're doing. Or half know what you are doing...
Bloatware used to refer to software that at one time actually was useful. Then they start adding more and more features that also makes the software slower, more buggy, less reliable, etc. Basically it was another way of saying that it's software affected by feeping creaturism.
Vista is bloatware.
The shovelware, crapware, spyware, malware, etc. are what can come with it when you buy it as part of an OEM package.
It sounds like you need to sit down with your father and have "the talk." Fortunately, now days you are not alone, and there are plenty of useful web sites to help you through this difficult discussion. One such site can be found here. While it may be a little uncomfortable and possibly a bit embarrassing at first, you will find that he may keep an open mind and be willing to share some of his fears and views on this sensitive but important topic.
And how is it this is so much better than iPhone?
Eww Vista its like Windows Millennium's bastard child.
The first step after rooting my Droid Incredible was to remove bloatware that came with the phone. Shortly after buying my phone, the first post I made to the http://www.incredibleforum.com/ was, "I can't wait to get root!" Unfortunately, this was just a hopeful comment at the time, and a dream that I was not sure would be fulfilled. A dream less likely for owners of the Droid X.
Very few phones do not work this way and as a number of Apple people say about the closed store geeks get worked up over - few real users are going to care (and in this case I think it is true, in the case of Apple regular people *are* aware of how closed the app store is and are starting to see apps for the Androids that they will never get because of it).
If you do not want them on your desktop simply press and hold the icon until it "locks" to your finger and drag it to the trash can. It will still be in your list of installed applications (and you will see it when you bring up your app screen) but other than a small amount of storage it doesn't take up anything. They could, of course, at some point force loading of it and have annoying op-up adds but then that *would* be noticed and cared about by pretty much everyone. Heck most do not care if they are eat up with them on the PC to the point their computer slows to a crawl. These applications do not start up in the background (though ones that are widgets will until you remove the widget) so it isn't like they affect anything other than seeing the icon in you full app listing.
Even in the link form the main article only a VERY small handful of people care more than a "I wish it were not so" (which would be my attitude) and currently all but one person realizes that they can't go someplace else to get away from it (the one posts solution - an iPhone - has applications one pretty much *must* use even if they do not want too, can we say iTunes for interfacing with my phone? Yea, there is where you go for an open extensible phone that doesn't force you into doing something in ways you do not want).
Of course this is what happens when an Open platform is picked up by business - freedom to do what you want with it means you can make choices others do not like. It isn't freedom if you tell me what I have to do with it. Android is Open and this is why you will see a range from mostly stock (Nexus One and Motorola Droid) to highly modified (Motorola Droid-X and much of the HTC offerings). Most of them can be rooted and your own custom ROM installed - but even most of those are "customized" with applications the ROM developer thought were good ideas. Not to mention the Droid-X has been rooted already, time will tell if they can get around the boot-loader issue or not.
------- Sorry about the spelling, I suffer from two problems. Dyslexia makes it difficult to spell well, lazy makes it
I wish I could scrape this off my Motorola CLiQ....
It's not so bad if you turn off Aero.
I've been considering getting a smartphone recently and one of the things that turned me off from Android phones was all the reports of bloatware. And some carriers, like AT&T, don't even allow the user to delete that crap. The HTC Aria, for example, is stuck with 4 or 5 different AT&T navigation applications, in addition to the one provided by Google. People have managed to hack the phone and are providing clean installs. Years ago I might have done that, but nowadays I don't have the time or patience to deal with that sort of thing.
This kind of crap automatically leaves me seriously considering an iPhone. Why in the hell is a company like Apple more successful in keeping bloatware off their phones? Why are Google and Microsoft incapable of demanding their products be free of this stuff? It's in their best interests.
I want something designed well, that just works without and doesn't require me screwing around with the device to get it just right. And this is coming from someone who used to spend a lot of time obsessing over getting icons and tools set up just right. I've designed my own themes for Windows and even found an application that let me create unique themes for my old Sony Ericsson. I like some level of customization but if things are design properly the need for it is diminished.
It's bad enough having to go through and delete junk that's installing only to try to convince me to waste my money. It's offensive that I can't even remove that crap from the phone.
For now I'm not getting any smartphone. I'll wait to see how things play out. A regular old phone does the job just fine and I'm in front of a computer all day anyway/
I'm not surprised this is a 'WIRED' article. They are such Apple fanboys. I've come so close to canceling my subscription because they go on and on ad nauseum about Apple, Inc.
Be that as it may, the truth still prevails.
My friend got an iPhones, and it had some stupid application for making phone calls! Phone calls! How 20th century! Who the heck does that anymore? Sheesh, I tells ya, sheesh!
From the article... "The record figure for a single month was reported as T$18 billion which is roughly $570 million for the month of April and thus reflects..."
I'm guessing that's Taiwanese Dollars, not the US kind that Apple reports in. In USD it would make it about 1.7 billion per quarter to Apple's 10.
Sorry to burst your bubble.
Actually most of the newer Android hardware is faster than the early gen netbooks.
I still see the openness of android phones as a net plus compared to the general closed, unjailbroken iphone. It's up to the end user to figure out how to get the bloatware off. That said, companies are huge piles of cow crap for loading up phones of all things with this shit.
$0.57B is waaay less than $10B/3...
If you *really* want to see how Apple is blowing away the competition, look here for a graph of Apple profit vs the combination of {RIM, Motorola, Nokia, HTC, Sony Ericsson}... Now Samsung and LG aren't part of the group Apple is compared against on the graph, but when you're making huge amounts more *profit* (not revenue as you quote above) than a significant number of your competitors *combined*, you're doing something right.
Simon
Physicists get Hadrons!
Because as an iPad/iPhone user I recognize that the apps I have generally get replaced by other Apps and I hate that I can't get rid of them. But I recognize that with the apps that are installed, they are quality apps. They are tight applications that do what they are supposed to and nothing more and they don't look like a 4th grader wrote the interface for them. I also recognize that Apple is removing these apps and getting out of the way of the user. I suspect in a near future version of the OS we will at least see the ability to hide, if not delete, those apps that we don't need because we've replaced (such as buying a more powerful calculator than the one installed).
Malware is usually software that does something the user does not want. Therefore, if the user wants to remove some software, and it can't be removed, then that software qualifies as malware, right?
So long as I continue to buy unlocked I have a true unlimited plan for as long as I feel like sticking with AT&T
But you're paying the same price for phone service as someone who keeps getting a new subsidized feature phone every 2 years. Unlike T-Mobile's rate structure, AT&T doesn't give you a $10 (voice) or $20 (voice+data) per month discount on your phone bill for bringing your own phone. And buying direct from the manufacturer doesn't give you a chance to try the phone in person.
As LTE gains traction for 4g it may eventually be possible to buy an unlocked phone that works on all 4 carriers
Sprint uses WiMAX, not LTE. Besides, each LTE carrier will still use a different band.
Bringing the conversation all the way back around: no bloatware on the iPhone.
Are you saying there are no pre-installed apps on the iPhone that can't be removed?
It's your phone and you can do what you like with it, so the Android owners keep telling you. It's also the networks phone it seems and if their money making plans conflict with your phone's capabilities then the OEM will comply and bugger it up for you.
It's been a problem for years, only Apple seem to say 'no' to such things.
I just wanted to remind you of the differences between open and free. Android is Apache license. It IS open source, and if that is what you mean by "open," then yes it is. Is is not "free" because the Apache license is not copyleft, and so it does not protect your freedom (I don't think Google ever claimed it did. They only claimed it was good for the handset manufacturers. I could be wrong here though). I am not saying, in this post, that one licence is better than the other, so I am not starting another flame war. I am just stating that, yes, Android is open source, and no, it is not free. I think we just need to understand our terms better. Is Android open source better than iphone complete proprietary? That is another question for another post.
Points to a thread where 20 people have posted, and not even all of them are complaining. Clearly this is a huge problem of epic proportions.
"Because with [Linux platform], you can do whatever you want!"
The more appropriate phrase to describe this phenomenon is,
"Because with [Linux platform], you're allowed to do whatever you can!"
Ego, YMMV.
My phone (A Samsung GT-I5700) came with Facebook and Myspace. Not only can I not remove these; I cannot update them either so I am forced to download a newer version of Facebook despite another version being already installed on my phone. I bought the phone thinking that it was open but it really isn't. I am looking to root but the drivers wont work.
I care not for your karma and your mod points.
I just HATE THAT ICON SO MUCH, sitting there, NOT RUNNING, stuck in the last slot of the last page of my pristine app collection, taking up VALUABLE SPACE in the non-user-accessible partition of my storage media, CURSE YOU Apple this is a DEAL BREAKER!!!
[gunshots, sirens]
People can just install Advance Task Killer or some such thing and kill the processes. That always worked for me. You can even kill the ATK process. I know the point is not to have any of this bloat in the first place, but this seems like a fairly easy fix.
My Tattoo came with two pieces of demo software preinstalled. They are great fun; they ran 5 times, ran out of demo time and now sit clogging up my memory...
I prefer not to pay for a separate GPS device, mp3 player, portable game machine, and video player.
And have no 3G data service in a shockingly large part of America that isn't even particularly rural
If you compare coverage maps from AT&T of ALL data (Edge + 3G) vs. Verizon data, there's not that much of a difference - even in places like Utah or Nevada (the real outliers).
I've been all over Utah for example, and you can get data on AT&T in more places than you'd think, even well off I-70.
But the real issue with any CDMA phone is, that you are simply screwed for international travel. I can play AT&T $20 for 20 MB of international roaming. That may not seem like much but I was able to make that amount last over a few weeks in the UK with occasional use of maps (mostly used an offline mapping program for driving directions) and some email. And in am emergency of course you can throw caution to the wind and use as much voice or data as you like - while your Verizon phone would be sitting dead.
Rumors are that Apple is working with Broadcom to have a single chip that would work on both networks - that would be really nice, and would make owning a Verizon phone more practical for people that travel.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I've had an iPhone for too long now to clearly remember, but my last Verizon phone had a ton of bloatware.
It seemed like it was designed to generate revenue in three ways:
1) Subscription fees for Verizon services
2) Purchase fees for Verizon products (ringtones, etc)
3) Service fees for network services you don't have a good/any plan for (eg, data).
Does anyone know what kind of revenue the carriers actually make from this? Is it substantial, or are they merely doing it thinking that if they do, they'll be the next Apple or control the "market"?
I know this doesn't work in the US but the solution is buying the phones unsubsidized directly from the manufacturers. In Europe is not that uncommon and many carriers have cheaper rates if you bring your unlocked phone. It ends up saving you money in the long run.
Anyway, for some models that might not even be possible in the US. In this case I really like the european model better
Apple went to Verizon first. Verizon said "We'll give you the same cut as we give everyone else" and Jobs said no and went to AT&T who basically gave away the farm to get the iPhone.
the biggest reason there is no Verizon or Spring iPhone right now is that Apple wants more money than either is willing to give. And meanwhile, Apple can continue to demand concessions from AT&T, keeping them cowering in fear of losing that exclusive status.
it's a very cushy situation for Apple, but it has nothing to do with this article.
It breaks my pluginses, my precious!
This article is pure Android FUD, carriers have been stuffing phones with useless and unremovable crapware forever, regardless of the OS. Apple is the only phone manufacturer (at least of smart phones) that has managed to avoid this.
In a real emergency, we would have all fled in terror, and you would not have been notified.
Carriers refused to discount their data plans if you brought you own phone.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
Which curated platform would you like today Apple iPhone or google Android?
http://p8ste.com - Web based Clipboard
Comment removed based on user account deletion
It's not like there's much choice. I guess I could start my own wireless company, but that would be a bit expensive...
Locked down devices suck, but I don't 'deserve' anything coming to me because I choose to use one. Given the choice between a locked down device and none at all, I'll keep living in the 21st century and take the former every time. At least with Android devices, you can usually root them and get some of that functionality back. Not anywhere near perfect, but it's better than nothing.
I believe the proper term for "crapware" is "crapps".
--
make install -not war
Why blame Android for something the Carriers are doing? It's like being locked out of your apartment and blaming the construction company when it was the landlord that changed the locks and didn't give you the key.
My Sony Ericsson Xperria come with five pages of preinstalled software ( from the Australian Carrier OPTUS) that can not be removed by the sucker - sorry - end-user. About half a page is use-full and the rest is either crap or designed to increase your phone bill ( why would I view youtube on the phone when I have a PC with twin 23-inch screens). Rooting the phone hass been on my todo list for a while ( if you forgive the pun). Thanks OP, looks like tonights the night.
"Bloatware (or, to use the more kind euphemism, 'Pre-installed software' that the computer manufacturer gets paid to include on a new PC)."
/. crowd to take up too much disk/RAM/CPU time for what it does (mostly by using a runtime environment the slashdotter calling it bloatware doesn't like, such as Java or Mono or The Other Desktop's core libraries) but in some extreme cases using X11 at all, or even failure to be written in hand-tuned assembly are sufficient to earn the title "bloatware".
That's crapware. Bloatware is any software that's deemed by the
0 1 - just my two bits
heya,
Err, yeah they have.
E.g., I point you to the post above from bonkedproducer, who helpfully cited three articles:
"Apple Claims Jailbreaking will Destroy Cell Towers" - ZDNet [zdnet.com]
"Apple: Jailbreaking encourages cell tower terrorism, 'catastrophic results'" - Engadget [engadget.com]
"Apple also claimed that jailbreaking would pave the way for hackers to alter the Exclusive Chip Identification number that identified the phone to the cell tower, which could enable calls to be made anonymously. Apple said “this would be desirable to drug dealers.”"Wired - Threat Level [wired.com]
And Google (at least HTC) have a policy of honouring the warranty even if you do root it, anyway:
Cheers,
Victor
The Android Market keeps telling me I should update "Facebook" - but I don't have Facebook installed! Its preinstalled!
I have to disable notifications not to constantly get bugged by this, and that means I'm not getting notifications for any of the apps I do in fact have installed!
Google seems to store this information in some secret cloud, because we can't log into this from a PC webbrowser and audit what they think we have on the phone - we are just screwed.
Bloody screw up google!
(Which as usual, you can't get in touch with!)
If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
Apple's pulling down 2x the handset profits of all its competitors combined this year, and the article uses the word "shocking", ... but not for that stat. They use the word "shocking" for this one:
And now consider the next shocking chart. Apple will generate 2X as much handset profit as the rest of the industry combined this year DESPITE SELLING ONLY 3% OF THE HANDSETS BY UNIT VOLUME:
As always, all IMO. Insert "I think" everywhere grammatically possible.
Which is why I bought my phone direct, bypassing a carrier. Can't tell me not to tether, can't force shitty software on me, can't shove ads in every orifice...
93rd rule of Slashdot: No matter how obvious my sarcasm is, my comment will be taken seriously by someone.
works just fine and I didn't build it, I bought it direct from a Chinese vendor. Hopefully, I'll be able to write scripts that'll run on it.
Tech Public Policy stuff
When you root your Android phone, you can remove any bundleware (great term, thanks!) you want - but moreover, you can change the desktop (launcher) itself, you can go with kernel variations.
Everyone's talking about root like it's something goofy.
It's simple: it's superuser (Administrator to Windows-only users) access.
You can plug your phone in to a Linux/Mac/Win machine via USB and access whatever you want via a command line.
The way God intended.
You can pay Sprint for the privilege of wifi tethering, per month - or you can root and do it yourself.
You can buy a backup application - or you can use the command line and do it yourself.
There are a few Androids that you can't do this with - such as the Droid X, where you can root it, but you can't replace the rom image.
Otherwise, if any of you are the least bit knowledgeable of why preemptive multi-tasking with superuser control of your device is a good thing, then you want Android.
It's just that simple.
And no - task killers are sufficient for bundleware and neither do they innocently sit quiescent doing nothing. The Sprint crap on the EVO - as well that most popular malware, Facebook - and that Amazon MP3 store thing - were constantly waking up.
And given that these phones use scalable processors whose actual CPU speed varies based on load and number of apps being serviced, yes, they do impact battery life.
And the rm command is alive and well.
OBTW - they say rooting voids your warranty. yeah. big deal. you can remove your root access and leave no trace.
With iOS, you violate your TOS and you jailbreak. With Android, you gain superuser (root) access.
Words mean things. /rant.
Pathological kinda promises Path + Logical - but instead, you get stuck with pathetic.
Oh look, a 1980s Mac vs PC debate. I had a platform that could both pre-emptively multitask, and didn't have faff with drivers etc.
The FSF represents Free Software only, and encourages people to use the GPL.
I think that is more accurate than my comment. I would agree. I'll reevaluate the issue, as I always have something to learn, but I still think my original comment about Android being open, but not free (as in hackable without jailbreaking) is still true. It IS open, but it is not modifiable. Thanks again.
Free vs Open Source
...there's a patch for that!
Android may be open source, and WebOS closed, but WebOS remains the most open phone platform in existence. You can remove the bloatware apps pretty easily, or if you prefer, just hide them by changing a simple text file.
Having an iteration on the desktop might be helpful ... I presume it'll work just fine in Virtualbox.
Tech Public Policy stuff
But the real issue with any CDMA phone is, that you are simply screwed for international travel.
FYI, there's a few CDMA phones from RIM and HTC that GSM capability as well.
Oh, you're referring to iTunes on the Mac/PC, Mr. Coward? I figured you were referring to the iTunes app on the phone itself. It's actually easy to get an iPhone without the Mac/PC iTunes. You can do your initial sync with a computer at the apple store, with a salesman standing right there guiding you through it. Same deal with the iPad. Past that, you do not need to use iTunes EVER AGAIN.
If you want to get pathological about it, then configure your email manually, and mail yourself your contacts in .vcf and fill your address book that way. Then get Pandora from the app store and listen to music that way. Then get netflix or hulu for your movie needs.
And I hate to break it to you, pal, but there is no bloatware being installed by the initial sync to iTunes. Those apps are embedded in the firmware. Your premise is invalid.
Personally, I don't consider iTunes "bloatware" because to me, it serves only two purposes:
1. It's a media repository, and
2. It's a method for syncing that media to my phone.
I would consider it bloatware if it also contained, for example, a paint program, a word processor, a punch-the-monkey game, or a social networking "chat service". Hell, you want bloatware? Go to facebook. It's got all of those hogtied together.
Also, your "fun fact" has no relevance.
And what is about Adobe Reader? Is it a bloatware, too? I buy computers without operation system and then install Linux, but my friends prefer to choose computers with Windows and some additional software (such as Adobe Reader) pre-installed. It is a really slow piece of software if you check it against Evince from Gnome. Also, I've heard a lot about Reader's security problems. Adobe has recently announced that they're going to create a sandbox mechanism inside of Reader, so it will become even more slower for sure!
Do not forget to check out my blog.