Slashdot Mirror
US Says Plane Finder App Threatens Security
ProgramErgoSum writes "The Plane Finder AR application, developed by a British firm for the Apple iPhone and Google's Android, allows users to point their phone at the sky and see the position, height and speed of nearby aircraft. It also shows the airline, flight number, departure point, destination and even the likely course-the features which could be used to target an aircraft with a surface-to-air missile, or to direct another plane on to a collision course, the 'Daily Mail' reported. The program, sold for just 1.79 pounds in the online Apple store, has now been labelled an 'aid to terrorists' by security experts and the US Department of Homeland Security is also examining how to protect airliners. The new application works by intercepting the so-called Automatic Dependent Surveillance-Broadcasts (ADS-B) transmitted by most passenger aircraft to a new satellite tracking system that supplements or, in some countries, replaces radar."
This is like totally bad and stuff.
Be afraid! Everything is a threat!
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and we can't take away all your freedoms unless you are afraid...
How is this any different from a website like flightstats.com, and I'm sure there are plenty of other sites like that too. It isn't difficult to figure out where the planes are. The app probably only makes it marginally easier to view this data on a phone. Sounds like much ado about nothing
If something could potentially be used in a bad way, even if most people aren't going to abuse it, it must immediately be banned! So, basically, anything that can be used as a weapon, too. Which is... pretty much everything.
Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
... instead of, say, the surface-to-air missiles
I'm pretty sure the terrorist could make their own tool even if this thing was banned.
This news story is an aid to terrorists, since it lets them know that this app could be an aid to them. Bottled water is an aid to terrorists, since it keeps terrorists mentally alert by avoiding dehydration. Shoes are an aid to terrorists, since they allow terrorists to avoid stepping on tacks. The sun is an aid to terrorists, since it illuminates the area so terrorists can see what they're doing. Calculators are aids to terrorists, since they allow them to calculate various aspects of their attacks. Paper is an aid to terrorists, since it allows terrorists to write their plans down. This post is an aid to terrorists, since it tells terrorists what things aid them.
Isn't this a bit like closing the barn doors after the horses have bolted? It sounds like the protocol was designed to be easily intercepted.
The problem is the xPhone app not the protocol that policy and protocol that provides no security by design. What's next, "Ohhh noes, people can tell what planes are flying around by reading their transponders. We must stop planes from using these terrorist enticing electronics." That should end well.
"Anything that makes it easier for our enemies to find targets is madness. The Government must look at outlawing the marketing of such equipment."
Perhaps they should consider banning the ADS-B transmitters, then?
In any case, banning the app would do nothing to anyone with the funds for a SAM. See this document to make your own reciever.
until I see a story from a source other than the Daily Fail.
Because terrorists would never, ever be able to find out this information by themselves, or crash their plane into an airliner by, uh, looking for it in the sky while they're flying.
Have we now moved on from security theater to security standup comedy? At best this seems to be a DHSvertisment telling terrorists where to get useful apps for their iPhone. which they might otherwise never have heard of.
If it can be done with a phone app, then obviously it can be done in other ways by terrorists.
If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck ... dont vote for it
Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
What conceivable use is this to a terrorist? I've been considering this for a few minutes now. My kneejerk reaction was that the government is being fucking stupid. Then I pondered on exactly how knowing which plane is which is at all helpful. Any ideas anyone? Perhaps I'm focusing too much on the hijacking scenario, and someone could use it to select a target for a SAM. But that just doesn't seem likely, since I would think you would already know your target if you go through the trouble of bringing a SAM to an airport.
My first reaction to this: If a commercial company has started doing it now, for how long has the terrorists been intercepting the ADS-B signals? I doubt they would go out of their way to tell anyone about it. It's like most security flaws, even if it is now known that a flaw exists, that does not mean nobody knew about it. And people exploiting it would very much prefer that it remains unknown.
We have a roomful of senior DHS and other government officials. The head of the group stands up and says, "Gentlemen, the results are now in ... everything is an aid to terrorism."
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
Somehow in my perusal of gizmodo, slashdot, ars, and other tech sites, did I miss the "android-guided SAM" or "iphone-guided SAM"?
Without a credible threat, the DHS ought to STFU and GBTW
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you
Mandatory blindfolds or hoods. Include the flight crew, because God might tell them to crash another plane.
-- Barbie
Here's an idea: How about protecting the borders and allowing ICE to deport illegal aliens who are already here? That would be a great first step.
The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
Anyone with a SAM can see if a plane is right there! They don't need an iPhone app to tell them what they are looking at is a plane. Have they had issues with terrorists accidentally targeting endangered condors with missiles by mistake?
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Extreme rendition flights.
If you can take down an airliner at 30,000ft, you hardly need to know its final destination, or need somebody to tell you its altitude, ....
I expected these typical responses from people didn't even bother reading the article. Of course slashdot got the headline wrong, but that's to be expected as well.
The fact is that nobody in the US government has said this app is an aid to terrorists. Its just something that is supposed by a couple of random people. I don't know how slashdot comes to the conclusion that the "US" (government I presume) exclaimed this.
In short, this entire article and summary is just flamebait and you suckers just got trolled hook, line and sinker. The editors should be ashamed of themselves.
I hope those terrorists don't know about the locations of any airports. Rumour has it that lots of planes fly near them...
I get this argument from idiot alarmists all the time:
"We can't allow for the last link of dissemination of information to the public at large to exist, but it's okay for the information to be available. We just need to make it *less* available."
This sort of argument appears to stem from one or many of a few beliefs:
1) Terrorists are too stupid to get this sort of information from less casual sources.
2) Of all of the speedbumps to becoming a terrorist, figuring out where the flights are was the thing that was holding people back.
3) They had no idea that we had this information available (this is a variant of 1),
4) It's okay to leave information we consider dangerous out in the open, as long as you can't get it without knowing the right URL (or, in this case, the right frequencies). This isn't quite what crypto nerds mean when they say "security through obscurity isn't security at all," but it's pretty relatable.
And to think, US Cyber command is under the impression that they don't need geeks. If this is what passes for an understanding of safety and security in our government, we're just doomed.
The App store has got a bunch of satellite tracking apps, couldn't those be used to aim an anti-satellite missiles and usher in a new age of SPACE TERRORISM!?
Admit nothing. Deny Everything. Make Counter-accusations.
This is a stupid argument because it is so extremely simple to figure out when to shoot down an aircraft with a SAM anyway.
You already know the approximate time when it will takeoff since that is public knowledge since the passengers needs to know.
Most airports has only one or two runways. You can easily figure out in which direction the plane is going to start (it will start at the same direction as the ones before it, probably into the wind).
Now you can simply put ourself outside the airport at the point where the plane will fly right over you at a low altitude off perhaps a couple off hundred yards. The guys that photos planes position them self correct every time with this knowledge.
The reality is that aircrafts is extremely exposed and easy to shoot down with SAMs since it is easy to get them during landing and takeoff and you can't fence off an area big enough to protect them.
I fail to see how this would endanger a plane unless they have a german 88 from WWII hidden somewhere in new jersey.
tower: AC310 heavy drop to 30 thousand and proceed to outer marker on heading 31 you are clear for runway
Hm, I wonder where AC310 heavy is ?
If you want to target a particular flight, this app might be of some assistance. But all a terrorist has to do is to sit under a busy flight path and wait for the next one.
Where I live (about 20 miles out from SeaTac) the approach pattern is low enough to pick off airplanes with low tech weaponry, like a rifle. Or a Canada Goose. The goose population on a nearby lake is dense enough that the general aviation aircraft try to stay higher (which is a whole other source of excitement, watching some guy in a Piper cub sightseeing, flying in circles ABOVE an incomming 747.
Have gnu, will travel.
The program, sold for just 1.79 pounds in the online Apple store,
I think the most interesting part of this story is how they managed to write a piece of software that weighs so much. I think my modem would choke if I tried to force 1.79 pounds of data through it.
... and then they built the supercollider.
like http://casper.frontier.nl/
nosig today
Threatens security?
I'm pretty sure that terrorists who have surface to air missiles handy don't need all this information. And I'm pretty sure that they could just as easily write their own programs which do the same thing, it doesn't take much computation to work out speed (with two images of which you know the time difference).
Ah well, at least there's a good excuse to reduce personal freedom now.
Why don't they just encrypt the broadcast of data and voilà...app useless and the world is safe for democracy once more...
i wonder these pages are also aid to terrorists?
http://www.radarvirtuel.com
http://www.flightradar24.com
I'm so tired of the endless fear-mongering by the US govt, media, et al. If you choose to let fear control you - it will. Rise above it and move on.
That's what ADS-B is supposed to do - give anyone who wants it a picture of what's in nearby airspace. It may have been a mistake to implement that capability and mandate that the transmitters be installed on aircraft. But, with that done, bitching about people using the data is pointless.
An attacker could buy a general aviation ADS-B receiver for $1495 and get the same data on an HP iPAQ. So this only protects against terrorists with very low budgets.
Why are these broadcasts not encrypted if they are potentially dangerous? People would not be better off not knowing that these are are not encrypted than sticking their heads in the grounds. This is no worse than someone not turning on security on their router. It's just plain silly. The finger should be pointed at the plains, not the iPhone app maker.
Once you start despising the jerks, you become one.
My guess, airlines are complaining about this. They've been sitting on this technology for awhile, but now someone created a cool little app that uses this technology and they are making a profit off it. Airlines are just pissed that they aren't getting a piece of the action.
So what do they do, they complain to the government and get them to outlaw the public from using this tech and shut down any possible competition. After a little while, start selling your own app and charge a premium for it.
Sound familiar? Do you remember "caller id"? Used to be you could just go to Radio Shack and puchase a little box you could hook up to your phone and you didn't have to pay the phone company a darned thing to use it. But then the tel-co's started complaining (or telling their paid for politicians to do so) and eventually put a stop to it. After that, they then turned around and started making this a paid "service", but it was crippled (To allow telemarketers, politicians, and basically anyone to block the caller ID).
Ahhh... the beauty of the free market. It's only free, after you bought yourself some politicians.
The real Sig captains the Northwestern. This one captains
We should be more concerned about PLANES finding the exact locations of BUILDINGS on the ground. 2001 was not about things crashing into planes, it was about PLANES divebombing things on the ground. A feat that is facilitated by Printed road maps, Google maps and Google earth more than THIS.
I think this is all a red herring for the real reason government doesn't want this app to exist. It gives the people too much power; from the ground, they can actually know what aircraft are above them, where they are going, etc. This is about wanting to keep as much information away from the public as possible.
Last I checked, the realistic situation wasn't Terrorists getting a hold of surface to air missiles. Or terrorists crashing into other airplanes. Terrorists have had no problems wreaking havoc if they ever get control of a plane... specific buildings on the ground are much easier, more dangerous, stationary targets.
If they wanted to target other planes, they could usually just use the on-board radar or transponder signals of other planes to get precise info. Instead... this is a chance for some bureaucrats who are really doing nothing to try to justify their existence, by complaining about other people's technology. If they were actually doing their job, it would be no concern that anyone could know the position and probable course of any other plane with this tracking system. Because terrorists are effectively denied the ability to fly or to gain control of aircraft.
If terrorists managed to obtain s-to-air missiles, they don't need a frickin' iPhone app to tell them the position and heading of a plane. Two other technologies they can use: Radar, or home-brewed electronics that can do the same thing the iPhone app can, but more precisely, and actually wired up to their targetting system.
The iPhone is like a black box... it is unlikely they can wire that up into their targetting system without some serious expertise and hacking work
If a bloody simple iPhone app is able to tap into the tracking system, then it reasons (just as easily) terrorists can tap into the tracking system, and without the aid of the iPhone app... terrorists who can afford surface-to-air missiles and the expertise required to operate them, can doubtlessly find the expertise needed to ID and track targets.
The firm behind the app, Pinkfroot, uses a network of aircraft enthusiasts in Britain and abroad, who are equipped with ADS-B receivers costing around 200 pounds to intercept the information from aircraft and send it to a central
database.
That's re-transmitting... I think the FCC frowns on that.
For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
OMG what good does it do a terrorist if the plane is already in the air. Have we had any attacks on airplanes using a surface to air missile? If they wanted to attack a plane could they not just check the internet for departure and arrival times. Shit like this just illustrates how the terrorists have won because we spend too much time chasing our tails for stuff that's not important.
"We are just a war away from Amerikastan. When god vs god the undoing of man." Dave Mustaine
1. Write sourceless article about interesting software labeled by unnamed 'security experts' as 'a serious security threat'
2. Mention that the Department of Homeland Security also thinks about security threats
3. Get article mentioned on Slashdot where people still don't RTFM in any detail, but do like to shit bricks that mention DHS in any context
4. Get traffic to ad-driven site
Yet another overreaction by the paranoid. Personally, I'm sick and tired of these paranoid "security" people trying to take away every little piece of information that some terrorist could conceivably use. Living in a free society entails a certain amount of risk. Deal with it.
Any other plane would already have access to that information from the air traffic control system. An iPhone app isn't going to be the thing that enables a suicidal terrorist to succeed.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Since when does an iPhone have a means to receive ADSB signals? More likely it uses something like FlightAware.com.
The next Cmdr Taco duplicate will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and see it early!
And of course, most "modern" SAM, i.e. even 1st generation 60s ex-Soviet hardware http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SA-7_Grail have infra red tracking ability rendering the use of this iPhone app moot. This is just self-important bureaucrats doing make work to justify their existence while feeding the paranoia of the masses.
You really think a terrorist would spend a ton of resources to shoot down a plane? It would be far more effective to blow up some buses. Or go on a random shooting spree in a crowd. The big reason to protect planes against terrorist is so they can't use them as weapons. A shot down plane doesn't make a good weapon. This whole thing is just lame.
A unique way to learn a language: http://languageloom.com
Because thousands of people need to know where planes are - every airport needs to know where every plane in its vicinity is. And in any case, it's pretty easy to find planes anyway. They're pretty obvious in the sky, and they give off heat (what SAMs use) - neither of which can be encrypted.
In any case, it looks like the government had nothing to do with this.
I have developed a truly marvelous proof of this comment, which this signature is too narrow to contain.
http://www.flightradar24.com/
http://www.radarvirtuel.com/
So this is the reason why the US cautions travelers to Europe!
On noes! The sky is falling. My iPhone said so.
Have gnu, will travel.
Ok, I've got my sophisticated guided missile system smuggled into the US. But, I'm just too lazy to look up publicly available flight plans so I can shoot one down. Oh wait! There's an app for that, thank you i-phone.
Spoons also threaten national security, because any official's heart can be cut out with one. Unless attendees will be slurping directly from the bowls, no more soup at state dinners.
We've gone insane, a kid with a model rocket can shut down all US airspace by launching it in front of a run way (you cant block all runways)
Even worse the thing could hit the plane (cause a small thud) and the kid who did it would have his civil rights suspended and get sent to some country outside the US to have his head dunked in water..
Speaking of Android, I'm having a difficult time finding this "Plane Finder AR" app for anything other than iPhone. There is another "Plane Finder" app that has a paltry 3/5 star rating in the app store, and seems to be just a Google Maps overlay of passing planes, not a Google Sky Map type "point your camera, display what's there" app. Anyone got a link to an .apk?
Don't know about this application, but I use my phone even I need some money by geting fast cash advance loan. Of course, it's not good when technical progress works for terrorists!
If we ban droid apps, only the terrorists will have droid apps.
This is an application which was designed to pay a guy to stand there and do nothing.
Eric
They pander to imbeciles.
The linked article and the summary says that "he programme, sold for just 1.79 pounds in the online Apple store, has now been labelled an 'aid to terrorists' by security experts and the US Department of Homeland Security is also examining how to protect airliners." The Daily Mail article says "The US Department of Homeland Security is also examining how to protect airliners."
Nowhere does it say the "US" or any US official has said the application "threatens security". In fact, the only official to say anything in the article was a UK official, a British MP, who said, 'Anything that makes it easier for our enemies to find targets is madness. The Government must look at outlawing the marketing of such equipment.'
So basically, the only thing that comes close to any "government" entity calling this application a threat is a British politician, and the "US" has actually made no statement about this application whatsoever, other than a reference in one sentence of the article that DHS is "examining how to protect airliners", and is not, as the headline implies, calling for the app to be pulled or censored, or indeed, even talking about the app at all.
Great sensationalism, guys. The best part of this is that the comments are howling with the typical anti-US-government complaints, when the "US" hasn't said anything about the app at all. What I come to expect from slashdot.
Don't know about this application, but I use my phone even I need some money by geting fast cash advance loan. Of course, it's not good when technical progress works for terrorists!
Thanks to the Streisand Effect, Plane Finder AR will doubtless skyrocket to the top of the charts by the end of the day.
If this were a legitimate security risk, they just did about a thousand times the damage that it would have been had they ignored it. Pathetic. This is why efforts like the Cyber Command is such an obvious failure to anyone with a lick of Internet-savvy before it was ever launched.
Nah, they do the anal probing at the airports now.
Get with the times, man.
Down With Slashdot BETA!!! I've been around the corner and seen the oliphant; you can only abuse me from your perspecti
Yes, maps are a security risk, it shows access roads and potential targets. Zipcodes, and addresses should also be banned, only allowed to be used by the government.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
There's an app for that!
The new application works by intercepting the so-called Automatic Dependent Surveillance-Broadcasts (ADS-B) transmitted by most passenger aircraft to a new satellite tracking system that supplements or, in some countries, replaces radar...
After the September 11 attacks in America in 2001, a senior Federal Aviation Administration official warned that ADS-B technology could be used by terrorists.
So, let me get this straight? Someone, nine years ago warned of how this information could be used, and the FAA didn't insist on, say, adding end-to-end encryption and/or authentication to the spec? Nine years later, the security threat is that any schmuck with an iPhone can tap into it?
Flash: If you leave the front door of your house unlocked, no one needs to "break in." Why do we have the same standards of security for the flight telemetry of commercial jets?
The security threat is the system spec, the folks that designed it, the administrator who signed off on its roll-out, and the attitudes that allow "professionals" to continue to fail to take even basic advice about data security.
Don't ban the app. That's the best way to make sure they fix this nine-year-old problem.
Blockheads.
--
Toro
Yeah, you can stop reading now. The Daily Fail (or Daily Heil) is full of shit almost all the time. It's something when you get a statement from DHS not some BS tabloid.
As I read this, I imagine Bruce Schneier strangling kittens.
Thanks a lot guys. Another kitten dies with every security failure.
If you are a terrorist and you already have surface to air missiles - and are near a major airport --- then the system has already failed. Any number of simple range finding devices would be all you need to ensure your target is in range. You would not need a credit card - an ATT account - or an iTunes account.
Its not the years, its the mileage
The app don't work in LA, save your $5
The cow says, "MOOOoooo."
I'm kidding. The U.S. ALSO SAYS that we're ABSOLUTELY FRIGGIN CERTAIN that they have WMD's. Look how well that turned out.
STFU and concentrate on doing important things, instead of pouring over app stores.
As many here have pointed out, it's absurd to think that this app would be useful for a terrorist who has the resources to obtain a surface to air missile. If you're going to shoot down a civilian plane, do you really need to know the flight number? Or do you just pick the one you see above you?
A more likely concern is that the device can be used to reveal government misconduct. It was hobbyist plane-spotters who, through their observations of civilian air traffic, exposed the CIA's Torture Jet flights or "extraordinary renditions", wherein they kidnapped people abroad and transferred them to third countries like Egypt, Jordan and Uzbekistan for interrogation using tortures that even the CIA wouldn't use (I guess there still are some).
If the choice is between ceasing their crimes against humanity, or trying to cover them up better: they prefer the latter strategy.
This app is using data the aeroplanes are broadcasting themselves and therefore it is an aid to terrorists. And not the aeroplanes doing the broadcasting, nosiree.
Not to mention that the enterprising terrorist would spend a little more time researching his targets. It really isn't that difficult to work out what aeroplane ought to be where from timetables and destinations alone. One could do the same with every train and bus in the country. Oh, buses usually even have their route number and destination right on the front. Maybe that's an aid to terrorists too?
A sunny wall and a last fag is too good for these arseclowns. I'm not going to bet they could "secure" themselves out of a wet paper bag if their own lives depended on it. And that bunch we're supposed to trust our lives with?
The source of the info that this app was declared an aid to terrorists is the Daily Mail.
The Daily Mail is not a very good source of info.
In fact, there is no indication that the program has been labelled a threat to security by the US. Not in this article at least.
There merely were concerned (expressed years before this app existed) that ADS-B could be used by terrorists.
Also, this app doesn't work by intercepting ADS-B, it just gets information from the internet that was collected using ADS-B.
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
It seems to me it would be much easier to figure out why people hate you and find a way to change that, than it would be to monitor every aspect of life and limit what the public can do in the name of "safety", no?
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin
Every other comment relating to this article (including my own comment) should be deleted, and yours left as the only response.
That's what I would do if I ran Slashdot anyway.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
...to help him aim his surface to air missile. He'd do better renting a house in Hull or East Boston. Thousands of aircraft fly directly overhead, well within range of a shoulder-launched surface to air missile. As always, it's actually getting the missile into the house that's the real problem, not having access to some iPhone app that tells him what flight it is and where it's going.
Wasn't that a famous disaster? I could never remember, maybe I should look it up.
Arthur C. Clarke said "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic". A central irony here is that with all this technology that allows people to magically fly through the air (in heavier-than-air buildings dragged around by thousands of invisible flying horses and made of a metal that cost more than platinum in Napolean's day) and also magically talk to each other with magic crystals and even see each other across the planet using magic crystal balls and such -- at least if seen from the perspective of two hundred years ago -- with all this magic, people are still focused on worryng they do not have enough stuff, and out of that fear are hurting each other using magic rather than using the magic to make a world work for pretty much everybody. This might make sense if the reason people wanted to hurt each other was something like "I don't like they way they look", but, even if that may be some of it, at the heart of most of these conflicts it is just someone who wants to be financially obese (profits from war and pipelines -- see Smedley Butler), leading to arguing over things like oil or gold that magic can produce in overflowing abundance (at least as far as solar power and useful metals), and arguing over who is going to do the jobs that don't need to be done because we can do them now (or soon) with magic, and arguing how to create artificial scarcities of all the things magic can produce trivially like streams of numbers. Banning the apps won't stop the irony. Only recoginizing the irony and letting new ways of being flow out of that recongition will stop the irony. See also my comments here:
http://www.pdfernhout.net/recognizing-irony-is-a-key-to-transcending-militarism.html
A 21st century issue: the irony of technologies of abundance in the hands of those still thinking in terms of scarcity.
Most flights leave at the same time, take the same route and land in the same place each and every fricking day. This data has been available to the public for decades. The only innovation here is interface to it.
Reruns of security theatre are getting old.
Some guys at ZHAW did something similar for the Airspace over Switzerland: http://radar.zhaw.ch/radar.html There was a period they were forced to delay everything by 15 minutes, but the government reversed that decision later as it does not make shooting planes down easier. STINGER and similar weapons are line-of-sight anyways and for anything higher than 3km you need something like an S300 or fighter jets...
thats like saying lets ban the phonebook because it lists ph#'s, names, and address's of: train stations, bus depots, airports, and gun stores, liquor stores... And stop telling us the time they arrive and depart ( I'd hate to be on time) Better ban public event notifications (concerts, sporting events) to, it lists the date and place and number of tickets sold. Terrorists could use this information to blow up hunders of people at a time. lmfao... the only threat the USA has, is the USA its self. Not a frickin iPhone app.
Fuck Department of Homeland Security! Nuke .. Department of Homeland Security ,,, find their geolocatiuon in Google Maps! Take Them Down ... Kill Every last Pervert. Kill the Freaks!
Hay Freak! You think I'm Scared of You?
You Kill Me! HOW BOUT YOU! MOTHERFUCKERS!
I live in a flight path to LGA, planes go over every five or ten minutes and often *blink* the apartment with their shadows. Which is kinda neat. But I think there's a misapprehension about this app. I t doesn't receive ADS transmissions, it relies on (some group of users other than app users) to submit the data to a db. Planes fly over my apartment every five or ten minutes. I've had this app open for an hour and none of the overflying planes were reflected in the UI.
Of course, if they were, I'da downed them with a SAM, which I never felt the need to do when they are flying over til now.
grammar-lesson free since 1999. (rescinded - 2005)
.... 5. Profit!!
Atlas stands on the earth and carries the celestial sphere on his shoulders.
No US passenger airline has equipped with ADS-B yet. In fact, most of them are fighting tooth and nail *not* to, because they don't want to spend the money.
The only thing the bogeyman of "terrorists" would be able to track with this app is UPS aircraft (UPS is helping the FAA test NextGen and has fleetwide ADS-B now, IIRC) and private planes that have chosen to equip with ADS-B.
This is a non-story. Next.
p
In Korea, long hair is for old people!
it's an iPad but it comes with a dongle.
I thought a heard a whooshing sound in the distance. Hang on while I get out the handy app I've got that identifies missed concepts flying over people's heads...
"The Plane Finder AR application, developed by a British firm for the Apple iPhone and Google's Android, allows users to point their phone at the sky and see the position, height and speed of nearby aircraft."
No, you don't have to point your iPhone at the sky. You'll just look like a twit.
"The new application works by intercepting the so-called Automatic Dependent Surveillance-Broadcasts (ADS-B) transmitted by most passenger aircraft to a new satellite tracking system that supplements or, in some countries, replaces radar."
Your iPhone does not now, nor will it ever, be able to pick up ADS-B transmissions.
"The firm behind the app, Pinkfroot, uses a network of aircraft enthusiasts in Britain and abroad, who are equipped with ADS-B receivers costing around 200 pounds to intercept the information from aircraft and send it to a central database."
It is just another app that accesses data from a database and correlates it to your GPS coordinates. You can see the same information by browsing to the company's site. Since it relies on volunteers and the receivers are a bit pricey, coverage in your area is likely to be spotty at best.
'The tyrant will always find pretext for his tyranny.' - Aesop's Fables
Do terrorists really care what plane they blow up. No dummy they're terrorists!! so the only real risk is a hit man might use a missle to blow up a plane instead on using a gun. Not likely.
Jihad got ya down? Need help bringing god's holy wrath to the infidels? Apple: there's an app for that.
although not in the same technical league, telescopes, binoculars and air=band radio receivers could also be labelled as 'aids to terrorists', as is google maps and a hundred other items.
There was an unknown error in the submission.
"..or to direct another plane on to a collision course..."
I didn't know that iPhones could transmit on air traffic control frequencies. :-O
Seriously?!?
cannons, grenades, knives, axes, swords, bows, crossbows, bats, bricks, torches ....
The app developers are intercepting identifying signals transmitted directly by the airplanes closing the gap between real-time and that delayed by a government-mandated time period.
The phone is getting the plane position data from the Internet. There's no legal requirement to delay updates - well, not in the UK, I know that the US has incredibly restrictive laws on that sort of thing - so they can be seen immediately.
In the UK and EU we have much more freedom to do this sort of thing. We don't even have the FCC-mandated "cellphone hole" in receiver coverage, designed to make it hard for people to listen to analogue cellphones that haven't existed for over a decade.
> Everyone who is not an obese whining imbecile is to be considered a threat.
*whew*
We really are safer than ever before!
Terrorists don't need to know which plane they shoot down. Just pick a big one.
Assassins don't want to kill hundreds of people as collateral damage because they don't want to motivate law enfocement more than absolutely necessary.
There is no reason to use this app for targeting planes.
Sorry, "Bunnies on a plane" is copyrighted by the Playboy company. Our sexy lawyers will be around shortly to give you a thorough debriefing!
There that should scare those slashdotters in submissions
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
So if some terrorist were armed with a surface to air missile launcher and a $2 iphone app, these guys would think the iPhone app is the problem?
Maybe it is only nitpicking, but how can you "intercept a broadcast"? A broadcast is by it very nature, public, and it is literally sloshing over you throughout its duration; you will have to be in a very isolated place to avoid "intercepting" it. Talking about "aiding terrorists" in this situation is meaningless; you might as well say that producing food or teaching skills like reading and writing "aids terrorists", because having food to eat and being to read/write makes it easier for them to commit acts of terrorism.
And who needs an app to identify whether an airliner is US, British, etc, because they all have the tails and sides of the planes painted as brightly and obviously as possible - So just look for the plane with the tail showing the colours of your enemy and shoot it down.
This is exactly what was planned in the UK a few years ago (allegedly), where terrorists were "planning" to shoot down an airliner coming out of Heathrow, with one spotter checking what planes had just taken off and reporting this on to a shooter with a MANPAD missile who was more directly in the flightpath. Although it was likely more pure fiction or at least a terrorist wet dream than a genuine threat - as I don't think any missiles were recovered.
Jolyon
Please read my Canon EOS tech blog at http://www.everyothershot.com
EOM
This is such a cool app, i want to know how far my GF is when she goes away ....by the distance and minute.... .....500 feet, 1000 feet, 1500 feet.......ok cost is clear she is really gone now...., call up the buddies for some poker!
>Bye dear........
>Ok
what this means is that surface-air rocket launchers and missiles are easier to come by and operate than software for picking up transmissions from airplanes - unless said software is available in the appstore for $1.7.
You know what else helps terrorists? Free speech. We better get rid of that too before our kids start getting foreign ideas in their heads!!
The problem is their suckitude is frightening.
I live in a rural area of Maryland. About 3 years ago, we had a total of 16 power outages for the year, each lasting for no less than 8 hours, some as long as 4 days.
We wrote a letter to BGE pointing out this cannot be considered normal in a first-world country and then sent a letter that said effectively "We consider this within the boundaries of what you could expect from us".
So I called the woman who wrote the letter and I said "So you're saying this is normal?". She said "Sir, I didn't say it was normal, it is within what you can expect".
So I asked her "What is the average number of outages and the average outage time", she refused to answer.
She said "Sir, this is because your power wires are along wires that go through 30 miles of tree! (obviously not just to me)"
I said "You chose to put wires there through the trees, not me".
Her response was "this is not a productive conversation".
I realized this entire woman's job was to take complaints and tell the customer it was their fault for expecting decent service. I said "I would rather they take your job's salary and use it fix the wires rather than tell me my expectations are overinflated". That pretty much ended the conversation.
That's why the joke is BGE - Bangledesh Gas & Electric.
http://www.msa.md.gov/msa/mdmanual/43const/html/00dec.html
"The use-mention distinction" is not "enforced here."
I wish that reporters would take more care to report technical stuff accurately.
As far as I know, an Iphone doesn't even contain the hardware necessary to receive ADS-B transmissions directly from an aircraft.
I'm guessing the phone is actually getting it (possibly indirectly) from some internet source. If that information is indeed a security risk (which I find hard to believe anyway) maybe the source is what should be addressed, not some stupid app that just aggregates it.
Many of you seem to have missed the bit where it said "the 'Daily Mail' reported." For the non-British who have not heard of it, this is roughly equivalent to "a homeless man in a tinfoil hat wrote on a bit of used toilet paper". I am not sure there even is an American newspaper equivalent for scale of simply making things up. It is a newspaper full of a mix of "immigrants are ruining everything", "get off my lawn", "the economy killed my grandma", "Boris Johnson talks sense" and the oh so lovely letters from their readers Chances are, all quote, names and mentions of government bodies are totally made up.
So the terrorist is on the ground with his multi-million dollar heat seeking laser guided missal over his shoulder. Hopefully, he will hit the wrong plane overhead, because the last thing we would want is for him to hit the correct plane. This smartphone app would totally allow someone to hook their million dollar device up to the output from this app and then they would be hitting the correct plane every time.
The above is meant to highlight the idiocy of this "US" guy... whoever that idiot is. I'd find out who this "US" acronym refers to in this and other articles with his/her stupid opinions. But it all seems like an early/late April fools... because nobody is soo stupid as to write that a smartphone app written by non-military related company with non-classified data could be the actual cause of this perceived threat. Unless you are the "US"... then I guess you have an excuse for entertaining these thoughts.