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Ask Slashdot: Easiest Linux Distro For a Newbie
anymooseposter writes "My mom is taking a computer class at the local Community College. she asks: 'I need to download a Linux OS and try it out for class. The assignment is to use an OS different from what you normally use. Well, since I use Windows and OS X, the assignment suggests Linux. But, my question is, what is the easiest version based on Linux for me to put on CD and try? I saw several on the web. Any thoughts off the top of your head?' What Linux Disto would be easiest to set up without having to resort to dual booting and/or driver issues?"
I assume this is going to be 99% of the suggestions. If your computer is old or slow, I suggest Xubuntu which I've switched my old P4 to after the regular Ubuntu got a little too GUI intensive. Here's the link to VMWare.
My work here is dung.
...if you don't plan to actually install. Alternatively, go download the Ultimate Boot CD and boot to the GUI for Parted Magic, which contains a browser, a command line tool, and a whole bunch of hard disk drive diagnostic and recovery tools, among other things. It's also useful for a bunch of other recovery and diagnosis stuff that doesn't use Linux, so it's good to have around for when the computer has a problem. I use it probably daily at work.
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
Can be used without installation in CD and DVD versions. Can also be installed to memory stick and to disk. You can have a persistent data area on a memory stick or a partition.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
Try Wubi with Ubuntu.
Puppy Linux - Lucid 5.2 (it just works).
Ubuntu. Current version (11.04). Use "Classic" desktop instead of Unity.
Also see http://www.unixmen.com/linux-tutorials/linux-distributions/linux-distributions4-ubuntu/1540-top-things-to-do-after-installing-ubuntu-1104-natty-narwhal .
Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
By FAR the easiest and most comparable distro out of the box to Windows is Linux Mint. All of the good parts of Ubuntu with none of the broken stuff. It also comes with all the restricted multimedia drivers that make things easy to use in Microsoft land.
Personally, I've found Ubuntu very useful in situations where I couldn't do any dedicated partioning for linux and only a bootable version would do. They're not the first or the only distro to offer a bootable linux kernel, but they typically provide a nice desktop interface and fair driver support. There's also an incredibly active community, with forums, where news posts are usually not even required (your question has been asked and answered countless times over, accessible via search).
http://www.ubuntu.com/
http://www.kubuntu.org/
http://www.xubuntu.org/
In the event she's looking to do some more serious introspection on linux, I would suggest Arch Linux. CLI from the start, and certainly not for the weak of heart. I started with Arch Linux years ago, because I like a challenge, and it definitely paid off in the long run.
http://www.archlinux.org/
vos nescitis quicquam, nec cogitatis quia expedit nobis ut unus moriatur homo pro populo et non tota gens pereat.
Ubuntu using Wubi is pretty brain dead easy to install. No partitioning required, it lives inside your Windows filesystem and handles adding itself to your boot menu.
Performance is slightly degraded, and bugs can come up with regards to hard reboots, but really it's the best option I know of if you're not running off a USB stick or DVD.
Just go with Ubuntu. Its designed to be friendlier for beginners and there is pretty good documentation on typical end user wants and needs. Some other distros can have more of a by-nerds-for-nerds orientation and the community response to beginner questions is "go read the man pages", or the distros can be more puritanical in nature, no binary drivers etc. There's nothing wrong with these perspectives, unless you are a beginner just trying out Linux rather than someone who has decided to dedicate themselves to Linux and is willing to invest the extra time. Fedora may not be bad for beginners either.
... :-)
Now let the flaming begin
Whatever distribution you choose, start with a LiveCD and boot from that. You won't have to make any changes to the computer at all. If you can install to a USB pendrive, it will be reasonably quick, too.
If the computer is reasonably hefty, with a modern processor and at least 1 GB of memory, I'd try Kubuntu 10.10 because I think the KDE desktop looks more like what someone used to Windows would expect. Otherwise, try Ubuntu 10.04LTS for the GNOME experience and avoid Ubuntu 11.04. It has an entirely different desktop environment (Unity) and is probably too buggy for someone whose never touched Linux before.
I haven't used Fedora in quite a while so I'm not competent to discuss its current incarnations. I've never taken to OpenSuSE, but I'm sure others here will tell you why to use that. Mandriva is likely to get some endorsements as well.
You might have her try out Edubuntu. It is pretty different than just another OS, but I think it does a good job of showing how Linux can fit a specific niche in a really interesting way.
They also have a "Weblive" version where you can play with it for 2 hours online before even downloading. That's here
Custom, hands-free Linux installs. Instalinux
Linux Mint is easily the most Linux-newbie-friendly distribution I've ever used. It also scales well to an experienced user. It uses an Ubuntu base (unless you use Linux Mint Debian Edition but I strongly advise against that for a newbie).
Depending on hardware capabilities there are heavyweight (Gnome, KDE) and lightweight (Xfce, LXDE) versions.
You can install it using mintinstall (wubi) from inside Windows (you need to use the CD version for this, but it's then very simple to upgrade to the DVD version once you're inside Linux Mint). Doing this means you can dual-boot without repartitioning - for your mum this sounds like the best option.
It seems like Linux Mint takes the current stable version of Ubuntu and just makes it feel... tighter. It also helps that they write some of their own software to make administering the system easier.
Use LFS, that will teach you!
On a serious note, the Linux distribution choosers/selectors out there can answer your and similar questions.
NB: The message above might reflect my opinion right now, but not necessarily tomorrow or next year.
An Ubuntu Live CD is the answer. You can boot it up on any x86 system and use it to your heart's content. you won't be able to save anything, unless you mount your local drive and save there, or pop in a USB stick.
I have no sig.
Like others said, just go for Ubuntu. Easy to find, easy to install, and with WUBI easy to roll back from if the Ubuntu experience didn't convince her. If your mom doesn't like Unity, you can use the default gnome desktop (not gnome-shell) that it still ships with, or just avoid the issue alltogether and go for the other *buntu flavours. And yes, I hear good things about Mint too, because of the whole community driven software center they have had even before Ubuntu had it.
Gentoo - By far the easiest!
* no need for a mouse to install it!
* don't have to boot a live cd
* don't have to dual boot (just have it take over)
* no hard to understand buttons - if you can read, you can install it!
if not for the crazy people who put linux ontop of a FAT filesystem (dont ask) i probably wouldnt be the successfull IT profes.. i mean .. homeless nutjob i am today.
But yeah I guess go for a Ubuntu live CD or something. You probably don't want to try to actually install the OS on a computer that's currently in-use, since doing that without clobbering something tends to be a bit of a challenge.
Sad thing is your mom can probably get away without ever opening a command prompt. If she starts doing term papers with Emacs and LaTeX, you could have a different problem on your hands...
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
Why waste time with Linux when there's LoseThos?
If you consider it "Linux".
http://chromeos.hexxeh.net/
Try Debian. Mikey likes it, and he hates everything!
Furries make the internet go.
http://haiku-os.org/
https://www.haiku-os.org/get-haiku
"The average reporter we talk to is 27 years old......They literally know nothing." - Ben Rhodes
I was a longtime Ubuntu user until they started changing things too rapidly for no reason that made sense to me. I tried Fedora for awhile - liked it - but absolutely love Mint.
Fast, fast, fast even on my old Dell laptop and I agree with the poster above who said it just feels right. Tight, stable and what i would recommend to any newbie. I've used most of the distros over the years - since 1995 - and this one is the best.
And this might be a minor point but it seems to me that the Mint support forums are especially friendly - polite. I kind of like that.
I'd put DOS on a VM. Not because it's even a passable OS; purely for the absurdity of it. Then record a screencast of her randomly typing in words hoping that it will get the computer to do something useful, before finally giving up, sobbing. (Just make sure your birthday isn't coming up soon.)
Once you choose a distro you will need to get familiar with the command line to really get in to Linux.
I found this to be great for beginners: Introduction to Linux by Machtelt Garrels
Does anyone else have useful books to share?
Unicode in Slashdot
... is hot and sexy, so use gentoo :)
I see you haven't met Rority or Gumal.
Free Martian Whores!
My favorite has always been Puppy Linux. Great for the beginner. puppylinux.org.
As opposed to a LiveCD I would recommend installing it on a flash drive instead. The flash drive can be written to, so it can behave more like a real OS (allow you to persist files and settings after a reboot) and its just quicker than CD/DVD.
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/FromUSBStick
$diff terrorists hippies
$
$rm -rf *terrorists *hippies
Download the ISO, burn it to a CD, reboot.
Everyone's going to suggest Ubuntu. But every time I've tried Ubuntu I've run into countless problems with it detecting hardware -- especially network cards. And every Ubuntu liveCD I've ever tried has been complete garbage.
Go with Mandriva. The LiveCD is excellent, the installer is the best I've ever seen, and every set of hardware I've ever thrown at it just works, straight off the install. None of the endless hours of screwing with things like Ndiswrapper that you get with Ubuntu. And it's got excellent config tools that will handle pretty much anything you want to do.
If you want to recommend a non-current version of Ubuntu, at least do it right -- it would be the latest LTS release (10.04). Not that there is a good reason to run it on a personal desktop, as 11.04 is fine as it is, except for the choice of default desktop environment.
Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
If so you could go for FreeBSD or Solaris. Or get really crazy and try to find a copy of BeOS or OS/2.
After all, the summary just said "an OS other than what you usually use", it didn't say it had to be Linux. And most of the people there will likely go with Linux anyways, so why not be different?
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
Hell you do not even have to see the command line at all! Its kind of like learning howto use a ipod touch!
I use Linux Mint Debian Edition. Very easy to use. It is like Ubuntu without the crap :D
To get the full Linux experience, I think she should create a Fedora Respin, or just go ahead and roll her own Linux distribution. :-)
I think Ubuntu is probably the easiest for hardware that requires proprietary drivers. Fedora is another good choice if the hardware has all open source drivers.
How many times do we have read about which distribution to run? Check the archives. This horse is dead, its been beat to death.
It's derived from Linux Mint which is derived from Ubuntu, so is far removed from Ubuntu's quirks and adds many enhancements that make it easy to manage. It's set up more like how a power desktop user would tweak their Linux distro with all the most common nice GUI tools for getting things done. Although it would be more familiar for a OSX user with it's mac-like dock.
For me it just saves time having to tweak things and install lots of packages.
After logging in slashdot still does not take you back to the page you were on. It's been that way for 20 years.
If you do show someone FreeDOS, I'd recommend something like this DOSS Hell.
The best Linux distribution to try as a beginner is the one that your friends and family use, because they'll likely be the ones providing your tech support. Try one that has a "Live CD" so you can try it without installing it to make sure it supports the devices in your computer.
Pinguy is Ubuntu with the extra stuff from Mint and already set up.
LTS is the version Ubuntu release every two years that promises long-lasting support, and is more geared towards entreprise. You loose some bells and whistles, but gain a lot of reliability and documentation.
Ubuntu "regular" value their users' time too little. I'm typing this from a brand-spanking new 11.04 install, and I'm already semi-pissed at it: Ubuntu is the only OS I know arrogant enough to force you to have your OS launch bar on the left side of the screen.No moving it to the bottom, top, or even right side, 'coz Ubuntu sez left is where it should be. Even when, like me, you have a secondary monitor on the left, that idiot bar just HAS to go in the middle. "Classical" Ubuntu can have its bar moved to the right (but does not rotate the writing, which makes for a very unprofessional look). Other gripes: 11.04 MP3 player keeps playing even after you close it; grub2 is a major mess, the launchpad has no provision for sticking a folder nor network share to it... It feels both under-featured, primitive, and haughty.
So, let the kid developers play god in their basements, stick with a less pot-induced, ego-crazed creation. LTS will do less, but won't prevent you from doing stuff all other OSes do, and will be closer to working right.
The Cloud - because you don't care if your apps and data are up in the air.
i just sent my mom a dell mini w/ mint on it,
for many of these same reasons.
Most distributions offer a LiveCD option that can be run from the disc (or USB stick) without installing to the hard drive. I prefer Fedora 14 or Ubuntu 10.10, but that's just a personal preference. Functionally, they aren't very dissimilar.
USB flash sticks definitely rock for running LiveCD versions - also, since it's hard to find anything as small as 1GB these days (:-), you've got room to install more software besides the minimal amount on the CDROMs.
If you've got a laptop with an SD card slot, you could also try installing the OS on that. I'm not sure how they compare with USB sticks for speed, but they're usually cheap and large, and you can just leave it there for whenever you want to boot into Linux.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
...is maybe easier to setup onto an USB stick than installing Ubuntu on Windows partition or disk (the gparted part being probably the hardest), but it will be handy afterwards too. The GUI isn't as fancy as Ubuntu Unity, but it is fast and usable even on older hardware. http://puppylinux.org/main/Overview%20and%20Getting%20Started.htm
"Put on CD and try" has nothing to do with "install on my hard drive." Google liveCD or go straight to
http://www.livecdlist.com/
"what is the easiest version based on Linux for me to put on CD and try?"
Burning a CD should be equally easy no matter what distribution is chosen.
As opposed to a LiveCD I would recommend installing it on a flash drive instead. The flash drive can be written to, so it can behave more like a real OS (allow you to persist files and settings after a reboot) and its just quicker than CD/DVD.
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/FromUSBStick
Yup. And this should do the trick: http://unetbootin.sourceforge.net/ runs on windows and Mac.
Some of my favourite people are from th US; Vonnegut, Chomsky, Bill Hicks.
It comes with all the conveniences of Ubuntu, including updates, except it still has Gnome 2.xx as the default interface, the DVD edition comes with all the video and audio codecs you will surely ever need, the default theme isn't as hard on the eyes as the default Ubuntu one, and it even has a layout that is similar to that of the Windows explorer layout that should ease the transition (i.e. all the system settings are enumerated on one menu as they are on Windows, and the two taskbars are combined into one on the bottom of the screen).
I wouldn't have her use Fedora 15 or Ubuntu 11.04. Gnome 3 and Unity are glitchy and in my experience, not very intuitive without a touchscreen.
I've had people that have never touched any sort of *nix before use knoppix and be impressed with it. Run it off CD/DVD or USB stick and it leaves your MS Windows environment alone. It doesn't give you as much software as Ubuntu but is less confusing and runs well on low end hardware (eg. 300MHz pentiumII).
Use virtualbox and fedora or ubuntu, two of the most common distributions around. Virtualbox (or vmware or parallels or whatever) is a smart choice - she can't fuck anything up during the installation, can easily try multiple installs and what not. Snapshots are cool too.
Why doesn't anyone ever recommend that. Its really good if you don't try to force portage on it.
Actually, getting a relative newbie to get BIOS to boot from something other than a hard disk is way worse than learning a VM environment IMO. I'm all for the VM idea, whether VMware Player or VirtualBox. VirtualBox can import OVFs, too, so it's fairly easy to get just about anything that has been made as a virtual appliance to work.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana." --Groucho Marx
Mint is going to be your easiest bet because it is relatively stable, and has many codecs built into it. Just install and use for the most part.
If you go with Ubuntu, log in using the classic (Gnome 2) desktop for stability. At that point, Flash won't work, DVD's won't play, etc. That is where a noob would need to download and run BleedingEdge. http://sourceforge.net/projects/bleedingedge/
Installing on a USB is the safest (and slowest) bet. It will be even safer if you disconnect the power to your hard drive first. The idea is not to erase your pictures, taxes, or homework. Personally, I keep Windows XP in a VirtualBox for the few software titles that require it. You could do the same with any Linux distro.
Good luck experimenting.
Ubuntu with classic desktop (not Unity). It have two 90 year old+ friends that use it just fine - it is that easy. DON'T DUAL BOOT just wipe that Microsoft crap off your drive.
I use many distros and can say with absolute confidence - the easiest and most user-friendly for windows users to adapt to is PCLinuxOS.
It has the lowest learning curve and is a fully featured distro.
Sure... it's your mom's assignment. My grandpa is also taking Theory of Computation at his university and asking me why his carefully crafted Lisp code still doesn't solve the halting problem.
That is a stupid assignment for a community college.
Many students are doing adult learning and their computers are provided by work are rather tightly locked down. As well installing an OS incorrectly could whipe out all their existing data.
And the off chance some one like me comes in the class. Who has tried a lot of OS's
DOS
Windows
GEM
Unixs
VMS
AS400
PrimeOS
Linux
Mac OS
OS X
Plan 9
Minuette
Inferno
And I am knowing I am missing some.
It is just the professor pushing people to use Linux
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
Linux Mint for overall easiness.
My Dad was asking basically the same question a few years ago, he was 70 at the time. I told him that SuSE is probably the best bet for an everyday desktop to replace his XP desktop and MacBook. Second best would be RH if he wants to get close to the metal. He bought the fully-supported version of SuSE and was quite pleased. He's a retired aerospace engineer but his main apps were e-mail, firefox, word processing, excel, and solitaire.
C|N>K
Outdated as hell- SliTaz is the replacement.
"People don't want to learn linux" hasn't been a valid excuse since '03.
So try something more different (and better) than linux:
plan9 or inferno.
Inferno can just run inside windows or OSX.
> "Depending on hardware capabilities there are heavyweight (Gnome, KDE) and lightweight (Xfce, LXDE) versions."
The Xfce version has moved to Debian (which you "strongly advise against"). Note that Clem said with the Xfce version he's no longer putting the emphasis on being lightweight (although even a bloated Xfce on top of Debian would be a lot more zippy than Gnome on top of Ubuntu).
Using Wubi or mint4win is not a great idea as mom probably has only one partition - resulting in her not being able to access any of her files from Linux. That's not the best introduction to Linux is it?
One of the real pains about Mint is that the GUI package manager doesn't allow you to change to a mirror located nearer to you (it just changes the Mint repo; not the Ubuntu ones - so the experience of updating or installing new software might proceed at a snail's pace if you're not near the main servers - again not the greatest of intros.
Forgive me for missing the obvious, but why not?
You got +4 insightful so many people agree, and there seems to be some serious "it's obvious!" flamey comments below you, so I must be missing something obvious, but I've used linux under windows for some time for many reasons, could someone just spell out the issue for the denser among us?
And the best way to start? By the hand that rocks the cradle! Qimo linux is geared towards young children, but is so simple even a Parent can use it!
In the future, I would want to not be isolated from my friends in the Space Station.
I respect your ID (wow! 437) but I call "BS".
1. My Linux boxes in Virtual Box seem to work perfectly well. If your VM is fighting for resources with 20 widgets showing the weather in Antarctica, 15 instant messaging clients and 20 bittorrent downloads then the fact you are running Windows is not the reason that you get nothing done.
2. What superior functionality am I missing out on when I bridge my VM networking? Do you run a "bond0" on your laptops two Ethernet ports? A couple of examples of this "superior functionality" that don't work in a VM would be nice.
3. You may have a point with file systems, but ZFS snapshots still work inside my VM, and I can also do snapshot of the VM if I want.
4. I find Virtualbox in full screen mode is identical, as long as you don't push right-control+F. And using Putty to access a VM is identical to a physical box - you do code like a real man, using just as your editor "vi" .don't you?
5. This is completely false. The user may not learn everything (like what a pain Linux wireless and power management can be), but they can learn almost everything. They will not learn nothing.
a LiveCD, this means a CD which will boot you to a usable operating system. You can poke around without installing anything or messing up your computer. If you find it interesting give a bunch of them a try to see just how different the experience can be.
Not all life is cyber. Extra Income
> "Depending on hardware capabilities there are heavyweight (Gnome, KDE) and lightweight (Xfce, LXDE) versions."
The Xfce version has moved to Debian (which you "strongly advise against").
Oh, SNAP! You sure got him there! Except that Mint Xfce WAS based on Ubuntu not too long ago and he clearly just wasn't aware of the switch. But the main Mint is great, as is the Debian-based edition, which you don't really address. If your only quibble with Mint is "the GUI package manager doesn't allow you to change to a mirror located nearer to you," it must be one fine OS! And it is.
This is a hacked account, for which the owner can not be held responsible.
I run Windows and Linux on Linux, but have tried Windows hosts and they work fine.
Distro churning is a breeze now. Download any .isos which look interesting and have at it.
If you have any questions, you can surf using the host if the VM isn't behaving itself.
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
so you can install it using wubi. my favorite is linux mint.
if you are familiar with os x, ubuntu will feel right at home. if you are comfortable with windows, go with kubuntu or mint.
Wealth is the gift that keeps on giving.
I highly suggest using Linux Mint. The best way to "try it out" is to use a program called UNetbootin (http://unetbootin.sourceforge.net/). UNetbootin can be downloaded and run inside any version of Windows or Mac OS X. UNetbootin will allow you to both download and "install" Linux Mint (as well as most other popular Linux distributions) on to a memory card (I suggest a USB memory card AND one that is at least 2GB is size). The memory card will need to be blank, because everything on the memory card will be erased while UNetbootin is creating the Live USB Linux drive. Once complete UNetbootin is finished downloading and creating the Live USB drive, you need to reboot your computer. Either go into the BIOS or select the newly USB drive from the initial boot prompts/options, and Linux Mint will boot from the USB drive into a “Live” version. USB is better than burning a CD/DVD because you can save changes to the system and USB generally runs faster because most modern USB drives have fairly fast transfer rates and absolutely faster seek times. Even if you don't choose Linux Mint, you can download and create Live USB drives of other Linux distributions (i.e. Ubuntu, Fedora, etc.) By the way, this the same method I use to both try out and install new versions of Linux on my computers. Good luck, and welcome the outstanding community of simply the best OS on the planet.
This is of course assuming that she's not running bleeding edge hardware (which seems to be a reasonable assumption in this case). Furthermore, unless you're going to provide some hand-holding during the installation (and maybe even if you are), you probably ought to image her hard drive first, just in case.
This is not meant to be disparaging of Ubuntu at all; I run it on my home and work desktops, and on my file and web servers. While I find it to be ideal for my needs, and recommend it to family, friends, and colleagues, I am also aware of its shortcomings. The non-LTS releases are sometimes not quite "ready for prime time", and the LTS releases often lag in support for newer hardware.
I'm not a new user so my list of quibbles is irrelevant in this discussion. I pointed out two that might apply to the problem statement and I added some factual ballast.
She should install ReactOS just to fuck with the professor.
I recommend it. It looks good and just works out of the box. http://www.pclinuxos.com/
I may be bad with names, but I'll never forget your IP address
Give the Pardus 2011 live-dvd a spin. It should have video drivers, wifi, video codecs etc all work out of the box. At least I've had it work for every machine bar one so far without any config, and that one just needed a wifi driver blacklisted (yes, beyond a newbie, but I've tried Pardus, plus a whole lot more distros, on a bunch of machines - and Pardus had the highest success rate). Good luck.
Is there anything easier than 'emerge world'? You have to really really dumb if you need something simpler than that.
Congratulations! You consider a crippled system acceptable because you are afraid of running it natively.
2. What superior functionality am I missing out on when I bridge my VM networking? Do you run a "bond0" on your laptops two Ethernet ports? A couple of examples of this "superior functionality" that don't work in a VM would be nice.
Lack of context switch to Windows, and running Windows network stack every time I try to transmit or receive a packet, to start...
3. You may have a point with file systems, but ZFS snapshots still work inside my VM, and I can also do snapshot of the VM if I want.
ZFS is crippled under Linux to begin with -- you can't cripple it more. The best way of handling filesystem snapshots under linux is placing filesystem over LVM2, not filesystem-level snapshots.
4. I find Virtualbox in full screen mode is identical, as long as you don't push right-control+F. And using Putty to access a VM is identical to a physical box - you do code like a real man, using just as your editor "vi" .don't you?
Terminal application for Linux is not called "Putty". And I happen to actually use Linux desktop as a desktop.
5. This is completely false. The user may not learn everything (like what a pain Linux wireless and power management can be), but they can learn almost everything. They will not learn nothing.
You are an example of user that "learned Linux" by running VMWare on Windows. You don't even understand how crippled your system is, and you are not aware of the fact that everything you "need" Windows for, can be easier accomplished with Linux. You therefore are a great example why this kind of "learning Linux" should never be done.
Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
Why doesn't anyone post the most obvious answer. Get Ubuntu and run it off the CD/DVD without installing it (LiveCD). She can play with it all she wants and every time the computer is turn off it resets everything and doesn't bother her Windows or OS X setup at all and it doesn't need to save stuff to just play around with it and do most normal things like web surfing and such.
That is so much simpler since she isn't probably going to keep it around after the class assignment is over.
Even older laptops are fine. I've got a 4 year old Dell Inspiron 9600 that has Ubuntu 10.04 installed and it works great. The only issues I have with it are persistent with any OS and caused by the laptop itself.
And this is being posted from a more than 7½ year-old laptop, also running Ubuntu 10.04 (actually lubuntu 10.04, with the LXDE desktop). This laptop has been running Ubuntu since the days of Warty Warthog, and we expect to get several more years out of it. All hardware has been supported since Breezy, and it runs everything we need snappily enough (Thunderbird, Chromium, Opera, Inkscape, Gimp, OpenOffice, etc.). Mind you, it only has a Centrino processor and is maxed out with 1GiB RAM, so heavy lifting (e.g. video processing) is done on a newer PC. However, it has a 17" 1920x1200 screen which still knocks the socks off those of newer laptops.
For a newbie, I'd recommend either Ubuntu (Gnome) or PCLinuxOS (KDE). Both have LXDE editions if a trimmed-down version is needed for older hardware.
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
AS someone who ran native linux for a decade, and still does from time to time, i still say that running it in a VM is FINE for educational purposes. This mother is not going to be running an enterprise off it, and running in a VM will protect her from breaking her day to day OS.
If you think the fact that the UI may not be quite as fast is a critical problem when running in a VM, when its merely for a project then you're being as ass.
I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
A Fistful of Dollars?
-- Cisk for the Cisk God
I was peripherally aware of the Xfce version moving to LMDE, but it hadn't consciously registered. I've never actually used it, having used LXDE for my lightweight requirements, and Gnome elsewhere (as I find it to be the best overall insterface). The reason I strongly advise against LMDE for a newbie is that it is a rolling distribution, and is still not as polished as the Ubuntu-based distributions. The Linux Mint developers themselves say to only use it if you know what you're doing, and have just introduced LMDE update packs to make it somewhat easier for people who don't want to deal with the daily hassle involved in a rolling distribution.
A wubi/mint4win installation can access the host partition - check the /host path. It would be simple to set up a symlink to her Windows Documents directory. It's always advised to have someone experienced around when installing any OS.
A very valid point. I also would like being able to configure an alternative server for apt via GUI configuration (my ISP has an unmetered download site that mirrors the ubuntu repos and I need to change /etc/apt/sources.list with each install) but it's a simple thing to change once when initially setting up.
If you have an older computer, or one with 1 GB RAM or less, I recommend Xubuntu. If you have a better/newer computer, I recommend Linux Mint. Both are great.
I recommend Mint these days. Unlike the state Ubuntu is in, it just works.
1. Your mother will learn how a REAL OS works. Nothing of that "mouze" bullsheet, and GUI is for weaks.
2. Can run lots of classic software. Everyone loves classic things. Right? Right?
3. It will improve her typing speed.
4. Everything looks more 1337 in a CLI.
5. Micro-Soft has 95% of market share for some reason! They can't be wrong!
6. There is no reason six.
Has anyone here suggested Wubi? Runs all of Ubuntu (except 'hibernate') on my laptop without partitioning, updates properly (unlike live-CD), fast, easy to uninstall. I've had 'accidents' uninstalling dual-boot partitions in the past, so wouldn't want to risk that for a brief trial.
I changed my mother from Ubuntu to Linux Mint around a year ago, and very quickly had to switch her back due to the endless cries of "it's doing something strange!". It was indeed doing something strange -- in around a 2 week period I came across at least two updates that insisted upon pushing Ubuntu branding to core parts of the system. What is the problem with this? Well, frankly -- some LM in-house programs broke, as they weren't expecting this change, but it was their own update system that allowed it to happen.
The main problems that I see with Linux Mint is that it has a very small development team, which appears to have led to significant oversights in the past, which have caused various issues requiring user intervention (for example, fsck on boot was completely broken in LM9, and would simply hang. This was on the tracker for a very long time, with the only message of hope being 'it will be fixed in LM10'.). This would be fine for someone who was more familiar with Unix problem solving, but frankly my mum and many others like her just want to sit down with the computer and have it work without need for troubleshooting. Sure, other distros (including Ubuntu) have messed things up in the past, but they have had a large enough vocal community to get a decent consensus on how to solve the problem. Linux Mint simply doesn't.
Linux Mint does a lot of things better than Ubuntu and in general seems to understand its demographic better (as it is, perhaps, a less diverse demographic). At the present time I would hesitate to recommend it for people who just want a works-out-of-the-box-and-stays-that-way experience, however, as the caveats are simply too numerous.
Oh, my. Not long ago, this would have sparked a never-ending distro flame war. Now, the Ubuntu crowd is so large and loud that advocates of other distros don't even try to be heard anymore.
Gravitation is a theory, not a fact.
Instead of doing what everybody else does, run a linux, why don't you give PC-BSD a try? http://www.pcbsd.org/ It's older, cooler and a direct descendant of the original UNIX.
if she is just trying it out, forget installing it.It's not worth the time and effort. Get a bootable CD distro and let her h a boot cd will be much less painfuk in the long term.ave at it. Otherwise, she's just going to be pissed when she finds out Word doesn't run,or that she can't use her multifunction printer/phone/FAX with it and want it unistalle. it's much easier to put up with a couple weeks of incessant whining about the cdrom running every time the mouse is clicked.
Linux is for hackers. The reason being, you need to have a little bit of knowledge about the underlying subsystem when things go wrong. most people don't know DNS from dhcp and that's a problem when you can't get your internets.
Join the Slashcott! Feb 10 thru Feb 17!
if you want a really easy straight forward OS, use CentOS.
It installs in like 10min
nothing to maintain, updates come automatically
just a pure Gnome2 desktop to start with
fancy software comes from user maintained repos
Tivo uses Linux as its OS. It's obviously not a Desktop alternative, but it is an excellent example of how Linux is used in many devices.
She just might get props from her instructor for being innovative.
My mom always said, "Jim, you're 1 in a million." Given the current population, there are 7000 of me. God help us all!
Wubi will install Ubuntu on a Win7 machine will little effort.
i did that on my machine, but have seen ZERO reason to boot to Ubuntu since then. It's just taking space on my laptop's tiny HD.
Utilizing the synergization of benchmark e-solutions to pre-workaround action items!
Another vote for Linux Mint 11, maybe try pinguey which is supposed to be even easier.
Ever wondered whats wrong with the world? http://www.ishmael.org/
Try Ubuntu on LiveCD, no need to repartition and install an OS. Fully functional from the CD itself, though changes to the system will not persist through reboots. Also you could run something in a VM, but I'd just use a liveCD mom would be up and running in the time it takes to download the image and burn it to disk then reboot.
I am Bennett Haselton! I am Bennett Haselton!
Or at least don't run it under VMWare, run Wubi... Which is good just for trying, but not a real good long term solution. Ubuntu supports dual boot, and that is the right way to go, especially if you don't want to uninstall your OEM copy of Windows.
I8-D
hi all!
For those worrying about the LMDE's rolling updates breaking something, there's good news:
http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=1781
We fetch your mail, we route your packets, we guard you while you surf. Don't fuck with us.
There is an option available under Ubuntu, and it should also be available under Linux Mint that allows you to install Linux under windows. What this does is to create a large file in the Windows file system and uses it as a virtual file system for Linux. The installer modifies the boot loader so you can select either windows or Linux at boot time (and can select which one is the default). It's not as fast as a true native Linux install because it has to make use of the NTFS file system driver underneath an ext2/3/4 file system. I've tried this method of evaluating Linux on a laptop and it worked fine. What's nice about it is that you can un-install it very easily from windows as you would any windows program.
I'd recommend Linux Mint Live CD. Excellent HW detection and support and very streamlined user interface. Basic navigation is similar to that on Windows and that might be an advantage.
DamnSmallLinux is pretty cool. You can put it on a flash drive and basically have a personal OS wherever you go. The only drawback is that you'll have to figure out how to get it to save to your flash drive if you plan on using it for any sort of local work. But otherwise, they make it really easy to download free apps online, from Firefox to Nethack.
Better to use the "native" app/functionality for creating a bootable USB stick, I've lately had problems with Unetbootin.
And while we're on the subject, Puppy Linux is small, has it's own "Install to USB stick" function and will run even on an older PC.
Don't blame me, it's usually 2 in the morning when I post
I've got to break some news to you - You're mother is at the local community college trying to pick up D&D players.
Of all the things I've dreamed of, this is way better than any fantasy I thought would come true.
Will she let us bring our own PCs, or is she intending to have us create new ones for her campaign? And is she a tough DM?
If the assignment is to "try out an OS" there is no reason to over-complicate it. Download several LiveCDs and try them. I'd say Knoppix, Kubuntu, and Damn Small Linux. You won't mess up your computer by installing anything. If you want extra credit, install your favorite it to a thumb drive. But if it's really just to try out another OS, LiveCDs are the way to go.
Extra geek credit - have her understand that Linux technically refers to the kernel and the OS is the kernel + other utilities and libraries that make the computer run - but that for all intents and purposes, most people just refer to it as Linux.
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
From a pure perspective.
The best experience I think would be Red Hat Linux. It's descended from Linux from the early days and is built on the red hat package manager (rpm). It also deliberately has a limited scope of packages and handles dependencies well. The online support is good and the online package repositories like EPEL for extra packages are fairly reliable.
Debian is in theory a great distro but its a bit much for a beginner who is only surveying an operating system.
Ubuntu and SuSE are kind of niche in that they serve specialist populations.. so the experience is tailored to the user or hardware populations.
If you really want a great distro, give Chakra a try. It's Arch Linux based, and you just can't beat the conceptual simplicity behind Arch. It is basically Arch Linux simplified. It gives you KDE, and everything else you might need. And installing new packages is incredibly easy. Give it a try.
Boredom is bliss.
julinux aka Just Use Linux. The guy that made it has a forum where you can get support directly from him.
I see hundreds of suggestions but not one for DVL. Shocking.
I am a Windows admin, but a couple of years ago I went on this 'cross-.training' crusade. I tried Redhat and it didn't appeal to me. The usergroups were useless. Linux distros break all the rules; every damn one is different. Help is sparse,so usergroups,friends and websources are it. Ubuntu came out and it was easy to navigate so I'm venturing into it deeper. A GUI is about the only way to start because most people,except old bastards like me are crippled at the command line. My sugestion? Install Windows apply the updates, then boot live to Linux distros until you find the one you like. I'm using Ubunto dual booted w/ Windows and I have SuSE running on a Dell. Go for Ubuntu. Bon chance!
Many people have talked a bought Mint or Suse and Fedora and there are quite a few others. But if you have fairly new PC, there is and alternative Ultimate Edition and it is also a live CD. It comes with most software that you will use every day, and all the software that you would use for editing. Audio & video, office, imaging, even some programing basics, it is fairly rounded. And most of all it's like Mint Linux in quite a few ways, like all code for audio, video, Java, flash, PFD reader, and Ubuntu depositories. It also has LTS version and lite version for older PC's, on some versions it has Gnome, KDE, XFCE, LXDE, there is also a Gamers edition. It has Compiz fusion & emerald, Qemu, INTERNET application for IM, Bit Torrent, Firefox, chromium, file management, fire wall, anti virus, WiFi search, Net management, UNetbootin, Ubuntu one, Ultamatix, Ubuntu Tweak, and of cores Synaptic, and auto updates. Photo management, photo editor, audio editor, IPod manager, audio tag editor, burning software, video editing, most every thing that you other wise would have to install. System requirements 256 MB ram, CPU 1.2 GHz. AMD or Intel , 3D Video card 32 MB for Compiz. This are minimums, so anything higher will improve the performance.
I do like Ubuntu as a distro. I haven't tried Linux Mint (but I probably will soon). I've also used Solaris, OpenBSD, FreeBSD, RedHat Linux, and Debian Linux. Generally, the biggest difference between all of them is how the Package Manager (Add/Remove Programs or "Programs and Features" equivalent) works to install or remove programs from the system (the same holds true for building your own packages of existing programs).
As long as you have fairly modern hardware, VirtualBox or VMWare are good ways to go to try Linux before you attempt a dual boot. Dual boot is recommended in the sense that you will either be "forced" to learn it or forget about it all together. Using Linux in a VM allows you to have the Linux computer in one window, and still have a web browser in another to research how to actually "use" Linux and the many different ways it can be used. You could then even see what different "Window Managers" exist and what one you like best.
Window Managers are essentially the software that manage the presentation of XWindows as a GUI (Graphical User Interface). Mac OSX is Unix under-the-hood and uses a Window Manager as well. There are many different window managers out there. The 2 biggest Window Manager environments are KDE and Gnome. I personally like Fluxbox as a window manager because it is clean, light-weight and allows lots of apps to become full screen easily.
VMWare is very popular and a full featured virtual machine platform. Probably very well supported too. Personally I use VirtualBox because I find it to be the least CPU intensive of the virtual machine platforms I've tried. Also, it is FREE.
An alternative to running Linux in a Dual Boot or virtual machine environment is to install Linux as the only OS on a spare Pentium class computer. Many of these can be had for cheap AND depending on where you live, a quick dumpster dive could land you a decent system for this task.
I would urge anyone new to Linux coming from a windows background to try PCLinuxOS. It took me a while to discover as it seems to be the best kept secret of Linux. I've gone through Debian, Arch, Mandriva, Ubuntu, Fedora, Mint, Slackware, Mepis, Puppy but always come back to PCLinuxOS. It's easy to install, easy to maintain and has excellent hardware recognition. Add a welcoming community that is happy to answer all the newbie questions without insulting people and you have the recipe for the 'Distro hopper stopper'. The PCLinuxOS version of KDE4 is also the best set up of all that I've tried.
Agreed to everything you said regarding Linux Mint.
Just two notes:
Linux Mint Xfce has been Debian based (as opposed to Ubuntu based) now for a while, just like Linux Mint Debian Edition (LMDE) you mentioned.
All editions of Linux Mint that come with Gnome (the Ubuntu based "main" edition as well as LMDE) still contain Gnome v2.32, not v3.
I used to big up Xubuntu, but it's become rather bloated now. I'd say Lubuntu, 'cause it small & lightweight and has a clean & simple interface. Nothing bloated or confusing like with KDE, Gnome or Unity.
http://nathanlindsell.blogspot.com/
# POSTED UNDER ANON BY MISTAKE
How simple can Linux be? I measure that by how much the user does not need to know. A particular feature that impressed me is offered in Ubuntu distros for netbooks (I forget the names). Menu sub-menus separated by tabs, like the tabs in a web browser. That was until I saw XPUD. The desktop are tabs for the main features, ie menu, Internet, system config etc. If you were a grandmother who never used a computer before learning how to use a mouse, connecting to the Internet, and using a web browser is where to start to jump on this "Internet bandwagon". The look has plain solid colors. At a glance it makes your PC look like a public Computer Kiosk.
Development has lagged over time and its not working 100% on older PCs but the distro is a righteous cry for a simple to use
Linux distro.
The XPUD Linux forum can be found at http://www.xpud.org/
Also xpud Live CD lastest development is 0.9.5 as of Nov 2010 found at http://soldat.gr/xpud/devel/
SuperOS is just Ubuntu with a lot of preloaded software and driver. That's make Ubuntu super easy. A while ago I posted article about SuperOS in my blog. Here's the link .